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srrono
02-25-2011, 08:25 PM
Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense
By John Oehser

INDIANAPOLIS -- Rick Smith didn't shy away from the issue.

Smith, the general manager of the Houston Texans, spoke to the media at the 2011 NFL Scouting Combine, and though the event is in a very real sense the start of the coming season, Smith also addressed the season just past.

And for the Texans, that wasn't the most pleasant of seasons.

After beginning the season with high hopes, and a victory over the Indianapolis Colts, the Texans slipped to a position all-too familiar in the franchise's nine seasons -- a sub .500 record far from the postseason.

Discussing the season, Smith used the word, "frustrating." And he used it quickly.

"That was the frustrating thing about this season -- we'd been working hard these last few years, and we really felt like we had the opportunity to have some success," Smith said.

Instead, the Texans after a 4-2 start, lost eight of their final 10 games, with a struggling defense and an inability to hold late leads turning a season of promise into a ninth consecutive season without a playoff appearance.

Smith said the season was particularly disappointing considering the Texans finished the previous season 9-7 -- the first winning record in franchise history.

"We really felt like we were poised to have some success," Smith said. "Obviously, we fell short."

The Texans moved quickly in the offseason to address the defense, hiring former Dallas Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips as defensive coordinator. He is in the process of switching the defense from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4, and Texans coach Gary Kubiak said Phillips will have a prominent voice in the acquisition of defensive personnel.

"I think that is a huge strength of his, so we'll be leaning on him big-time," Kubiak said. "That's what we brought him for. We're going to listen to him and get this defensive football team turned around."

Smith said the Texans' scouts met in Mobile, Ala., at the Senior Bowl to become familiar with scouting 3-4 players.

"We've really opened ourselves up to some potential options that were not there before," Smith said. "We've opened ourselves up to some guys players we otherwise wouldn't have looked at."

Smith said while the Texans will remain focused on the draft, he said they also will be aggressive in free agency -- if and when there is a free-agency period this offseason.

"We look to every avenue to improve," Smith said. "We have a pretty good idea of where we're going to address things in the off-season."

While neither Smith nor Kubiak said specifically the Texans will emphasize defense on the first day of the draft, Kubiak said, "You and I both know we had big problems on that side of the ball last year. We made a big commitment to come in and get our defensive football team going very quickly.

"We'll have to evaluate the draft. That won't change, but obviously that's a big part of our football team that needs (to be) corrected."

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2011/02/25/gary-kubiak-wade-phillips-to-play-prominent-role-in-assembling/

alphajoker
02-25-2011, 09:42 PM
Smith said while the Texans will remain focused on the draft, he said they also will be aggressive in free agency -- if and when there is a free-agency period this offseason.
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2011/02/25/gary-kubiak-wade-phillips-to-play-prominent-role-in-assembling/

I hope that by being agressive they mean going after Nnamdi Asomugha.

Texan_Bill
02-25-2011, 09:46 PM
If daughter Tracy comes to town..... I'm all in!!!!


http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2007_Charlie_Wilson_s_War/007CWW_Tracy_Phillips_003.jpg

drs23
02-25-2011, 09:51 PM
I hope that by being agressive they mean going after Nnamdi Asomugha.

Never happen. Not a knock on Aso but I can't fault the FO for not doing that deal. I see the FO staying their coarse regarding older players and not tying that much up in one guy.

Wolf6151
02-25-2011, 09:55 PM
Srrono, good read, thanks for finding and posting that, it gives a little hope. It's pretty obvious that Kubiak doesn't know anything about the defensive side of the ball and neither did the idiots that he hired as DC. Now that we have a legitimate DC hopefully they follow through with what they say. This article gives the impression that this could be an all defense draft like many have speculated.

I can't see the Texans going after Aso, to old and way to expensive. I'm hoping for Jonathan Joseph, younger and very good.

Brandon420tx
02-25-2011, 10:16 PM
I hope he takes a look at Ray Edwards for LOLB. He'd be pricey but worth it.

Wolf
02-25-2011, 10:26 PM
good read

however, I wonder what the definition of "agressive" is .. melting of the ice caps is pretty aggressive in the right scope throughout time.

(not saying they want to be the next redskins and sign everybody and their dog)

maybe I am losing patience

Hervoyel
02-25-2011, 10:54 PM
"Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense"

Well, he's the Defensive Coordinator. If he wasn't assuming a prominent role in assembling the Texans defense I guess he'd be...... Richard Smith? Frank Bush? On second thought maybe a Texans DC actually getting involved in putting together the Texans defense is a more novel concept than it sounds.

Still, nice to see Rick Smith work his shiny 9-7 record (Best in Texans history) into the conversation early on. It's never too soon to hide behind the one year you didn't entirely suck.

thunderkyss
02-25-2011, 11:06 PM
however, I wonder what the definition of "agressive" is .. melting of the ice caps is pretty aggressive in the right scope throughout time.


Let's see.

Suan Rogers is a FA... nary a look.
Atogwe is a FA.... no looksee.
Bob Sanders is a FA... nada

Inigo (in a heavy Spanish accent): You keepa use'n athat werd.... I do-nah think it meanz awhat you athink it meanz....

srrono
02-25-2011, 11:27 PM
Let's see.

Suan Rogers is a FA... nary a look.
Atogwe is a FA.... no looksee.
Bob Sanders is a FA... nada

Inigo (in a heavy Spanish accent): You keepa use'n athat werd.... I do-nah think it meanz awhat you athink it meanz....

I started the Wake up call thread about rogers sanders and atowge not being brought in for a look.
I can come up with reasons for not looking at them such as
rogers - too old
sanders - injury prone
atowge - waiting for the market to set a price
which all could be good reasons except for the fact that the Texans fan base wants results.

Reasons to bring them in for a work out and conversation
rogers - When healthly he one of the best DT out there. 2 year deal in home town could be doable never know till you sit and talk with him.

sanders - yes injury prone but a highly incentive based contract with a team that plays the team that cut him 2 times a year may intrest him.

atowge - he is a elite fs something the texans have never had worth a work out and conversation.

At the very least with all texan fans eyes on the front office they should be brought in as window dressing. Make the fans atleast think your trying to improve this team.

Dallas_Texan
02-26-2011, 12:07 AM
I started the Wake up call thread about rogers sanders and atowge not being brought in for a look.
I can come up with reasons for not looking at them such as
rogers - too old
sanders - injury prone
atowge - waiting for the market to set a price
which all could be good reasons except for the fact that the Texans fan base wants results.

Reasons to bring them in for a work out and conversation
rogers - When healthly he one of the best DT out there. 2 year deal in home town could be doable never know till you sit and talk with him.

sanders - yes injury prone but a highly incentive based contract with a team that plays the team that cut him 2 times a year may intrest him.

atowge - he is a elite fs something the texans have never had worth a work out and conversation.

At the very least with all texan fans eyes on the front office they should be brought in as window dressing. Make the fans atleast think your trying to improve this team.

I agree to bringing them in to excite fans, but at the same time doing that and NOT signing them would just make fans start yelling that we were being cheap and not offering enough.

GP
02-26-2011, 10:29 AM
"Wade Phillips Assuming Prominent Role in Assembling Texans' Defense"

Well, he's the Defensive Coordinator. If he wasn't assuming a prominent role in assembling the Texans defense I guess he'd be...... Richard Smith? Frank Bush? On second thought maybe a Texans DC actually getting involved in putting together the Texans defense is a more novel concept than it sounds.

Still, nice to see Rick Smith work his shiny 9-7 record (Best in Texans history) into the conversation early on. It's never too soon to hide behind the one year you didn't entirely suck.

The most important part of that whole story:

"Instead, the Texans after a 4-2 start, lost eight of their final 10 games..."

8 out of the final 10 games.

Folks, you have to be pretty special to only win 2 games out of 10. We've got something special going on here. I'm hoping for 9-7 in 2011. A 3-game improvement would be epic.

steelbtexan
02-26-2011, 10:50 AM
The most important part of that whole story:



8 out of the final 10 games.

Folks, you have to be pretty special to only win 2 games out of 10. We've got something special going on here. I'm hoping for 9-7 in 2011. A 3-game improvement would be epic.

But,But, Wade says there's enough talent already on board for this defense to be much improved.

After finishing 2-8 we dont need to make any traumatic changes to the football side of the organization. LOL

BoB, keep on giving your fan base the good ole boy routine. Maybe one day your team will get lucky and make the playoffs. I wouldn't count on making the playoffs for atleast 3 yrs.

Spin it BoB spin it. The cash cow is alive and well.

Would 9-7 and missing the playoff be good enough to keep Gary and Rick around another yr? Probaly not for you and me. But BoB doesn't care about his fanbase. It will be enough to keep Gary and Rick around another yr. Then BoB will be selling how much improved his team was in 2011. It's a visciuos circle that can only be stooped by the fanbase turning against BoB.

I dont see the GREAT FANS of the Houston Texans ever turning against Bob. I mean half of this MB are happy just to have a team and dont mind lining BoB's pockets with cash. Regardless of the poor product BoB's put on the field for almost a decade and counting now.

cuppacoffee
02-26-2011, 11:52 AM
But,But, Wade says there's enough talent already on board for this defense to be much improved.

After finishing 2-8 we dont need to make any traumatic changes to the football side of the organization. LOL

BoB, keep on giving your fan base the good ole boy routine. Maybe one day your team will get lucky and make the playoffs. I wouldn't count on making the playoffs for atleast 3 yrs.

Spin it BoB spin it. The cash cow is alive and well.

Would 9-7 and missing the playoff be good enough to keep Gary and Rick around another yr? Probaly not for you and me. But BoB doesn't care about his fanbase. It will be enough to keep Gary and Rick around another yr. Then BoB will be selling how much improved his team was in 2011. It's a visciuos circle that can only be stooped by the fanbase turning against BoB.

I dont see the GREAT FANS of the Houston Texans ever turning against Bob. I mean half of this MB are happy just to have a team and dont mind lining BoB's pockets with cash. Regardless of the poor product BoB's put on the field for almost a decade and counting now.



You missed one.:kitten:

:coffee:

IDEXAN
02-26-2011, 12:37 PM
Still, nice to see Rick Smith work his shiny 9-7 record (Best in Texans history) into the conversation early on. It's never too soon to hide behind the one year you didn't entirely suck.
I have a theory about that "9-7 record (Best in Texans history)": the
Texans may have played no worse last year than they did in 2009 even though they only won 6 games - the 2010 schedule could have very easily been 3 games more difficult than that relatively easy 2009 schedule.

b0ng
02-26-2011, 06:32 PM
I have a theory about that "9-7 record (Best in Texans history)": the
Texans may have played no worse last year than they did in 2009 even though they only won 6 games - the 2010 schedule could have very easily been 3 games more difficult than that relatively easy 2009 schedule.

While that's always a possibility I think that the defense turning every game into a shoot out is what repeatedly killed the team. The inconsistency in play from quarter to quarter from the offense never helped, but honestly when you are ranked 31 out of 32 team in terms of defense I can't see how you can even be above .500.

Of course I'm sure something else will happen next year that will cause us to miss the playoffs.

thunderkyss
02-26-2011, 07:54 PM
But,But, Wade says there's enough talent already on board for this defense to be much improved.

After finishing 2-8 we dont need to make any traumatic changes to the football side of the organization. LOL


I have been, and still am, very pleased with the team Kubiak has put together. I like how he was able to keep them on the same page & keep the locker room together.

His problem is game management, building on momentum & slowing the tide.

Let me be clear, I don't think Kubiak should still be the head coach of the Houston Texans.

But I believe this team can make a big jump in 2011 (if there is a 2011) & I think that is what BoB is shooting for.

Norg
02-27-2011, 03:58 PM
I think the best thing for the texans is a lockout a ten game season so a 6-4 season might get a wc spot lol

steelbtexan
02-27-2011, 07:45 PM
I have been, and still am, very pleased with the team Kubiak has put together. I like how he was able to keep them on the same page & keep the locker room together.

His problem is game management, building on momentum & slowing the tide.

Let me be clear, I don't think Kubiak should still be the head coach of the Houston Texans.

But I believe this team can make a big jump in 2011 (if there is a 2011) & I think that is what BoB is shooting for.

Hope you're right.

Isn't this the same thing you said last yr?

It will probably be the same thing you say next yr.

steelbtexan
02-27-2011, 07:46 PM
you missed one.:kitten:

:coffee:

lol

GP
02-27-2011, 09:16 PM
Let me be clear, I don't think Kubiak should still be the head coach of the Houston Texans.

But yet you're not phased by him remaining the head coach.

You're a walking paradox. "Let me be clear, he shouldn't be the head coach here. But I believe they can make a big jump in 2011."

It just always feels like you live in the gray when the NFL, out of all the pro sports leagues out there, is the biggest black & white environment going. In the NFL, you're either the big enchilada or you're not. You're either doing things right and it's paying off (naturally) or you're laying a big stinker no matter how hard you try not to. There is no quarter, no half-ass'ing it. All or nothing. You can see the Packers, and you saw real progress at work. Last year, they lost a heartbreaker in the playoffs. This year, they went all the way. Real progress, not the type of progress that gets propped up here.

And that's why I can't get behind Kubiak. I just can't. All I see is a coach who has too many holes in his game, and it trickles down to his players. The addition of Wade Phillips MIGHT stem the tide. MIGHT. But at this point, I think it's still an uphill battle.

A complete wipeout of the coaching staff, and the bringing in of a new HC with him choosing his new staff, would be the best thing. Because a new HC would be like the blind squirrel getting to check out the other side of the tree...instead of the Kubiak squirrel still feeling for acorns in the same area day after day. There's no acorns there, so stop wasting your time.

thunderkyss
02-28-2011, 01:30 AM
Hope you're right.

Isn't this the same thing you said last yr?

It will probably be the same thing you say next yr.

No, last year I hadn't given up on Kubiak the game day coach.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2011, 01:36 AM
But yet you're not phased by him remaining the head coach.

You're a walking paradox. "Let me be clear, he shouldn't be the head coach here. But I believe they can make a big jump in 2011."

It just always feels like you live in the gray when the NFL, out of all the pro sports leagues out there, is the biggest black & white environment going. In the NFL, you're either the big enchilada or you're not. You're either doing things right and it's paying off (naturally) or you're laying a big stinker no matter how hard you try not to. There is no quarter, no half-ass'ing it. All or nothing. You can see the Packers, and you saw real progress at work. Last year, they lost a heartbreaker in the playoffs. This year, they went all the way. Real progress, not the type of progress that gets propped up here.

And that's why I can't get behind Kubiak. I just can't. All I see is a coach who has too many holes in his game, and it trickles down to his players. The addition of Wade Phillips MIGHT stem the tide. MIGHT. But at this point, I think it's still an uphill battle.

A complete wipeout of the coaching staff, and the bringing in of a new HC with him choosing his new staff, would be the best thing. Because a new HC would be like the blind squirrel getting to check out the other side of the tree...instead of the Kubiak squirrel still feeling for acorns in the same area day after day. There's no acorns there, so stop wasting your time.

I'm not T'Kyss, but...

I expected us to ditch Kubiak after last season. For exactly the reasons you state. He had enough time to get us into the playoffs and to get us deep into the playoffs and he hasn't done it. He's built an offense of Epic proportions and with the potential to be incredible. But he's a head coach and there's more to football than offense. Our defense has never been good enough and he hasn't learned from his lessons.

That doesn't mean that Smithiak hasn't finally learned its lesson and that getting Phillips won't solve the defensive problems that have plagued this team for so long. It might not work. It may be too little too late. Or it could be just what this team needs to turn the corner.

As a fan, I choose to look on the bright side. I'm going to be rooting for this team next year if there is a season so I'm hoping for the best. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If this team gets its defense worked out and keeps the offensive production high, this could be a Super Bowl team.

You point to the Packers as an example, and they're 2 years removed from a 6-10 record themselves. Hopefully, we get that kind of turnaround ourselves and I think it's more than possible. It's just not probable.

thunderkyss
02-28-2011, 02:09 AM
But yet you're not phased by him remaining the head coach.

You're a walking paradox. "Let me be clear, he shouldn't be the head coach here. But I believe they can make a big jump in 2011."

It just always feels like you live in the gray when the NFL, out of all the pro sports leagues out there, is the biggest black & white environment going. .
.

.

Just because I don't act like a bitchy little girl, doesn't mean I'm not phased.

I love this team, and I love the players, I still believe in them.

I don't have any faith or confidence in GK, if this team does make a run, I'll be as surprised as anyone.

Possible & probable, are two different words. & this NFL is anything but black & white. All year long, you guys have been talking about teams that make dramatic turnarounds form one year to the next, for everyone that followed a coaching change, there are a dozen that didn't.

thunderkyss
02-28-2011, 02:16 AM
Damn iPad

BigBull17
02-28-2011, 09:53 AM
Let's see.

Suan Rogers is a FA... nary a look.
Atogwe is a FA.... no looksee.
Bob Sanders is a FA... nada

Inigo (in a heavy Spanish accent): You keepa use'n athat werd.... I do-nah think it meanz awhat you athink it meanz....

I wouldn't touch Bob Sanders. You can't depend on him one bit. Our guys sucked last year, but at least they could play.

GP
02-28-2011, 10:43 AM
Just because I don't act like a bitchy little girl, doesn't mean I'm not phased.

I love this team, and I love the players, I still believe in them.

I don't have any faith or confidence in GK, if this team does make a run, I'll be as surprised as anyone.

Possible & probable, are two different words. & this NFL is anything but black & white. All year long, you guys have been talking about teams that make dramatic turnarounds form one year to the next, for everyone that followed a coaching change, there are a dozen that didn't.

Nobody says you have to be a bitchy little girl. That's you trying to deflect and attempting (snarkily) to paint certain people as bitchy little girls. Not winning any points, honestly.

I just can't gloss this team's problems over long enough to convince myself that they can make a big jump in 2011. At some point, faith has to be checked at the door of reality. That's why I don't understand the half-and-half statements. "He shouldn't be here, but I think we can make a big jump in 2011." Well, if you think he shouldn't be here...doesn't that somehow mean that we likely WON'T make a big jump in 2011? Which is it?

What can happen, TK, that makes Gary Kubiak reverse 5 years worth of trends? Everything from roster decisions, player acquisitions, weekday gameplanning/strategizing for Sunday's opponents, failures vs. AFC South teams, goofy playcalling at all the wrong moments, his choices and handling of defensive coordinators, an entire season's worth of blown games and failing to have his offense in gear until Quarter 4 of each game.

The list goes on. Outside of an improved defense, which is still a long shot by the way, what can Gary Kubiak do that's opposite from the past five years? Outside of a competent offense, what can Gary Kubiak do to actively create a better team here? I don't see it. I seriously don't. He's got his cool-under-fire attitude going on, and I guess that has some people enamored by the guy. He doesn't throw people under the bus, except for when Bob tells him either he'll fire somebody or HE gets the hook too. In war, it's one thing to hunker down and absorb enemy fire and be disciplined to wait your turn. But at some point, you have to return fire. You have to mount an offensive and storm the castle. I see nothing about Gary Kubiak that shows me he can do anything BUT hunker down and weather the storm.

The idea that every season is a blank slate and we start fresh, so therefore "anything can happen," doesn't appeal to me anymore. Not after five years of Kubiak. There is nothing, not a single shred of this team's history over the past FIVE years, that shows we're making a big jump in 2011. I guess wishful thinking says we can. I wish, too, but I know which hand will probably fill up first.

GP
02-28-2011, 11:00 AM
Smith said the season was particularly disappointing considering the Texans finished the previous season 9-7 -- the first winning record in franchise history.

"We really felt like we were poised to have some success," Smith said. "Obviously, we fell short."

The Texans moved quickly in the offseason to address the defense, hiring former Dallas Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips as defensive coordinator. He is in the process of switching the defense from a 4-3 scheme to a 3-4, and Texans coach Gary Kubiak said Phillips will have a prominent voice in the acquisition of defensive personnel.

"I think that is a huge strength of his, so we'll be leaning on him big-time," Kubiak said. "That's what we brought him for. We're going to listen to him and get this defensive football team turned around."
Smith said the Texans' scouts met in Mobile, Ala., at the Senior Bowl to become familiar with scouting 3-4 players.

"We've really opened ourselves up to some potential options that were not there before," Smith said. "We've opened ourselves up to some guys players we otherwise wouldn't have looked at."

Smith said while the Texans will remain focused on the draft, he said they also will be aggressive in free agency -- if and when there is a free-agency period this offseason.

"We look to every avenue to improve," Smith said. "We have a pretty good idea of where we're going to address things in the off-season."

See, I sit here and read this stuff from Smithiak, and I interpret it semantically.

"We'll be leaning on him big time..." Uh, what does that mean? I would have prefered to hear Gary say "It's 100% Wade's defense. Whatever he wants, he's getting. We'll sort out the entire draft board, but defensive picks are all his."

Secondly, we have a follow-up quote that says "...we're going to listen to him." Listen? Hmmmm. OK. How about this, Gary: He doesn't have to say crap to you. He can get what he wants and you can sit back and like it. "We're going to listen to him," makes it sound like Wade is giving input but Gary & Co. make the ultimate decision. Gary, you've lost supreme command OK?

You guys are going to say I'm biased. I'm not. This has bothered me from the first time I read the OP, and I've tried to give myself time to re-analyze it over and over and make sure it came off the way it first did when I first read it. I can't get away from it. It sticks out like a huge red flag to me. Gary has chances to show fans that he's handling the offense and Wade is handling all of the defense (to the CORE of it). Where's Wade's statements on this? Instead, it's Kubiak at the microphone telling us Wade's business. I want to hear from Wade Phillips when an article talks about our defense. There's Gary, saying "We'll 'lean on him,' and we'll 'listen to him'...." No, you won't listen to him or lean on him, You're supposed to get the hell out of the way and talk about your kids on offense. Tell me about your plans for backup QB, your thoughts on all your RBs specifically Ward and Slaton, if Jacoby has a real future here or not and what you think of our WR squad, tell us about the TEs. Tell us anything BUT your thoughts about defense. That five-year screw-up is OVER.

This is why Kubiak had to go. I don't think he "gets it" yet. I really don't. Wade complicates things, IMO. Wade naturally, by virtue of Kubiak's micro-managing and clique'ish personality, is muddying the waters already. We're looking at an interim head coach situation, folks. I think it's the inevitable ending.

infantrycak
02-28-2011, 11:10 AM
Secondly, we have a follow-up quote that says "...we're going to listen to him." Listen? Hmmmm. OK. How about this, Gary: He doesn't have to say crap to you. He can get what he wants and you can sit back and like it. "We're going to listen to him," makes it sound like Wade is giving input but Gary & Co. make the ultimate decision. Gary, you've lost supreme command OK?

You wanted him to lose supreme command but he did not. This is just making stuff up to complain about and is why little girl assertions get made. Clearly Wade wasn't going to get to run the entire draft. If the clear BPA in a round is an offensive player then taking that offensive player or reaching for a defensive need is going to be a call for Smith and Kubiak. There was never a reasonable expectation Smith, McNair or Kubiak would say Wade is in complete control of the draft.

gtexan02
02-28-2011, 11:27 AM
Remember when people said there was no benefit to firing DC mid season and hiring someone to take the reigns early on?

Heres 2 benefits I can see:
1. They get to actually coach and work with players before the offsesaon
2. They get to instruct the scouts on which types of players to scout much earlier


I was concerned by this "he taught the scouts how to scout 3-4 players" Really? I guess that means we have no live game scouting of any of our defensive prospects now? Strange

GP
02-28-2011, 11:34 AM
You wanted him to lose supreme command but he did not. This is just making stuff up to complain about and is why little girl assertions get made. Clearly Wade wasn't going to get to run the entire draft. If the clear BPA in a round is an offensive player then taking that offensive player or reaching for a defensive need is going to be a call for Smith and Kubiak. There was never a reasonable expectation Smith, McNair or Kubiak would say Wade is in complete control of the draft.

I never said I had the expectation of Wade running the "entire draft." Where do you get that? Because it sounds good, I guess? LOL. Geez, man.

I would think, after FIVE years of bad defense (with the ultimate failure being the "going young in the secondary" idea)...and now you got a highly-paid D-Coord in Wade, and you're switching to a 3-4, and your past two D-Coords have been nothing but figureheads so that Kubiak remains the smartest man in the room at all times...that the statements by Kubiak, pertaining to the defense, would be something more than "we're listening to him" and/or "we're leaning on him." To me, this speaks volumes. It should be more like "Whenever we draft defense, it's Wade's call 100%. That's what this franchise thinks of his eye for talent and needs for his defense." i can dream up a dozen things for Kubiak to say that would do a better P.R. job than what he said. That's what gets me: The lack of effort to show us that he "gets it" through and through. We don't hear much from the Texans, since they guard every single thing, so it is what it is: As DB has said, you have to scrutinize the few things they actually attempt to vocalize out there.

I sense a hesitancy by Kubiak. He is, of course, in a helluva' situation due to many factors (With Wade's presence being the kost daunting yet). Honestly, I think he's already given up and knows he's on the way out.

steelbtexan
02-28-2011, 11:34 AM
Agreed

If say in the 3rd rd a S is on the board and Wade wants him. But Rick and Gary see a WR they want, Who makes the call on the pick?

Dysfunctional, I dont see this arrangement working out well.

GP
02-28-2011, 11:37 AM
Remember when people said there was no benefit to firing DC mid season and hiring someone to take the reigns early on?

Heres 2 benefits I can see:
1. They get to actually coach and work with players before the offsesaon
2. They get to instruct the scouts on which types of players to scout much earlier


I was concerned by this "he taught the scouts how to scout 3-4 players" Really? I guess that means we have no live game scouting of any of our defensive prospects now? Strange

I agree 100%, gtexan!!!!

But, "you can't do that in the NFL." That's what I've been told. I mean, it just doesn't make any real difference at all. It would be a move just for the sake of making a move. In the end, it would just hurt more than help.

I would like to see some real manuevering by the Texans, just ONCE. Outside of the Carr cut and Schaub acquisition, I need to see risk-taking. It seems McNair associates risk-taking with the Capers-era of risks that Capers/Casserly took, which were boneheaded moves and not calculated risks. I think the guy is scared of taking a risk now.

infantrycak
02-28-2011, 11:54 AM
Agreed

If say in the 3rd rd a S is on the board and Wade wants him. But Rick and Gary see a WR they want, Who makes the call on the pick?

Dysfunctional, I dont see this arrangement working out well.

I'll give you an example of why this is how the system has to be (although the O and D components of the example are reversed). So it is the 2006 draft. The team needs rebuilding on both sides of the ball. It comes to the 2nd round pick and the OC really likes a WR they have graded as a early 2nd round pick. But the Texans have a mid-first round grade on DeMeco Ryans and he is available at their pick which they never expected. Just like they did then, the best choice is to sprint to the podium, take DeMeco and tell the OC he needs to look at his options for a WR that may be available later. So the Texans end up with multiple pro-bowler DeMeco instead of Chad Jackson taken three picks later by the uber smart Patriots and get his career 171 yards receiving (and release two years later). That's smart drafting, not being dysfunctional.

I never said I had the expectation of Wade running the "entire draft." Where do you get that? Because it sounds good, I guess? LOL. Geez, man.

Because the only way the truth isn't "we will listen to Wade" is to put him in complete control and that was never going to happen. He isn't going to make the decision on whether to go O or D in each round.

GP
02-28-2011, 11:57 AM
Agreed

If say in the 3rd rd a S is on the board and Wade wants him. But Rick and Gary see a WR they want, Who makes the call on the pick?

Dysfunctional, I dont see this arrangement working out well.

Because, in the end, we're dealing with a head coach who has been there for five years now. He's going to act naturally. He's going to revert to what he knows. And what he knows is that this is histeam. Will he have a "going down in a blaze of glory" attitude?

I know he's going to try and do right by Wade, I wouldn't say that he would try to slight the guy on purpose. It would be to his benefit to do right by him. For all intensive purposes, we SHOULD draft a guy on defense in round 1. But then again, what if we went offense in round 1? Ouch. What if we traded down in round 1, and went offense with our first round pick and Gary tells Wade that he now has two picks on defense (You know, presenting it as a "gift" to Wade that he now has an extra pick to work with).

This will be an interesting experiment, IMO. The duality of Kubiak and Phillips.

To what degree does Kubiak let Phillips have the controls.

Double Barrel
02-28-2011, 12:06 PM
The Texans have spent a lot of draft picks on defensive players over the years. Unfortunately, many of them were bad choices, some of them good, and some okay. Hopefully, Wade is the factor that makes those decisions right this time around.

thunderkyss
02-28-2011, 12:17 PM
Nobody says you have to be a bitchy little girl. That's you trying to deflect and attempting (snarkily) to paint certain people as bitchy little girls. Not winning any points, honestly.

You read me like a book.

I just can't gloss this team's problems over long enough to convince myself that they can make a big jump in 2011. At some point, faith has to be checked at the door of reality. That's why I don't understand the half-and-half statements. "He shouldn't be here, but I think we can make a big jump in 2011." Well, if you think he shouldn't be here...doesn't that somehow mean that we likely WON'T make a big jump in 2011? Which is it?

Yes.

We likely won't make a big jump.

What can happen, TK, that makes Gary Kubiak reverse 5 years worth of trends? Everything from roster decisions, player acquisitions, weekday gameplanning/strategizing for Sunday's opponents, failures vs. AFC South teams, goofy playcalling at all the wrong moments, his choices and handling of defensive coordinators, an entire season's worth of blown games and failing to have his offense in gear until Quarter 4 of each game.

I don't have a big problem with the roster decisions. I still think our team is as talented as any team in the league on both sides of the ball. Less talented, actually, on the offensive side.

Player acquisitions, I'm going to lay at the door of Rick Smith. Though I do believe GK has more influence than he should, I blame Rick Smith for not asserting his position as he should.

Playcalling is an issue, but not in the way you guys are thinking of it. I don't have a problem with the half-back pass. Game management I think is his biggest weakness. I haven't seen anything to hint that GK has figured it out. This is the reason I don't believe he should be a head coach. This is the reason I think he should have been fired.

Frank Bush looked like the answer in 2009. Though the organization scape-goated him in 2010, I don't think he was the biggest problem.

All that other crap, especially the 4 qtr thing is bs, no different than every other team in the league.


The list goes on. Outside of an improved defense, which is still a long shot by the way, what can Gary Kubiak do that's opposite from the past five years? Outside of a competent offense, what can Gary Kubiak do to actively create a better team here? I don't see it. I seriously don't. He's got his cool-under-fire attitude going on, and I guess that has some people enamored by the guy. He doesn't throw people under the bus, except for when Bob tells him either he'll fire somebody or HE gets the hook too. In war, it's one thing to hunker down and absorb enemy fire and be disciplined to wait your turn. But at some point, you have to return fire. You have to mount an offensive and storm the castle. I see nothing about Gary Kubiak that shows me he can do anything BUT hunker down and weather the storm.

I could cuss you right now, for being a shitty fan (just an example, I'm not saying you're a shitty fan) & it won't change the fact that you're a shitty fan. Wilson screwed the pooch time & again, Nolan started getting playing time. If you think Nolan was unequivocally better I can see why there is so much frustration. Barber was supposed to be the primary back-up. He went on IR early. To me, from a consistency standpoint, Nolan showed he wasn't ready (this was basically his rookie season).

GK flat out said Wilson screwed up on at least a couple of occasions, he also mentioned Nolan's inconsistencies. Soon as he had a player he felt good about putting on the field, Kareem Jackson saw less playing time, but Allen didn't look much better, and worse at times. McCain was definitely not an option. Gary said as much, maybe not in so many words, but he acknowledged KJack's struggles on many occasions.

I don't understand what else anyone expected him to do.

We started the season with 8 LBs, there were games, when we had to rely on 3 guys, because they were the only ones that were healthy. & don't get me started about the injuries on the DL.

Lots of injuries & missed games on the defense. I'm not using this as an excuse for Kubiak. These are excuses of why KJac wasn't benched. Why Wilson wasn't benched. Why the LBs weren't benched.

The idea that every season is a blank slate and we start fresh, so therefore "anything can happen," doesn't appeal to me anymore. Not after five years of Kubiak. There is nothing, not a single shred of this team's history over the past FIVE years, that shows we're making a big jump in 2011. I guess wishful thinking says we can. I wish, too, but I know which hand will probably fill up first.

That's fine, if you want to ***** like a little girl, you go right on ahead. I like going to games and rooting for Arian Foster to break a big one, or Andre to break somebody's ankles, or Matt to go the F@#K off. I like rooting for Mario to be what he's supposed to be, I'll root for Cushing to be the menace he used to be & Demeco to be the playmaker he was. I love watching Quin play ball, & I love watching Pollard (hope he'll be here) hit people.

That's the way I roll. If somehow or another all that crap equals wins, I'll be happy. If not, I'll be upset & drive my 2 hours back home pissed about something or other Gary most likely did or didn't do.

But I'll be back the next week, watching the Houston Texans play football.

Silver Oak
02-28-2011, 12:24 PM
That's fine, if you want to ***** like a little girl, you go right on ahead. I like going to games and rooting for Arian Foster to break a big one, or Andre to break somebody's ankles, or Matt to go the F@#K off. I like rooting for Mario to be what he's supposed to be, I'll root for Cushing to be the menace he used to be & Demeco to be the playmaker he was. I love watching Quin play ball, & I love watching Pollard (hope he'll be here) hit people.

That's the way I roll. If somehow or another all that crap equals wins, I'll be happy. If not, I'll be upset & drive my 2 hours back home pissed about something or other Gary most likely did or didn't do.

But I'll be back the next week, watching the Houston Texans play football.

this post is dripping with awesomeness.

dalemurphy
02-28-2011, 12:49 PM
Isn't this off-season going to be insufferable enough without having every thread turned into "Kubiak and Smith suck/don't suck"?

I propose a boycott of any such discussion on this message board unless the thread title says something like "Let's debate how good/bad the organization is right now"... What do you say, soapers? I'll throw you a bone, as well. Speaking for the "sunshine club", we will confess that Kubiak deserved to be fired based on the team's 2010 performance. Can we move on now? please?

thunderkyss
02-28-2011, 12:50 PM
Isn't this off-season going to be insufferable enough without having every thread turned into "Kubiak and Smith suck/don't suck"?

I propose a boycott of any such discussion on this message board unless the thread title says something like "Let's debate how good/bad the organization is right now"... What do you say, soapers? I'll throw you a bone, as well. Speaking for the "sunshine club", we will confess that Kubiak deserved to be fired based on the team's 2010 performance. Can we move on now? please?


I'm in.

OzzO
02-28-2011, 01:44 PM
this post is dripping with awesomeness.

Seconded - I'd rep em, but gotta spread em. Nice one, TK.

DexmanC
02-28-2011, 03:15 PM
I have been, and still am, very pleased with the team Kubiak has put together. I like how he was able to keep them on the same page & keep the locker room together.

His problem is game management, building on momentum & slowing the tide.

Let me be clear, I don't think Kubiak should still be the head coach of the Houston Texans.

But I believe this team can make a big jump in 2011 (if there is a 2011) & I think that is what BoB is shooting for.

Would it be accurate, if I boiled this post down to:

"Kubiak, I REAAALLLLYYYY wanna believe you're "The Coach" for the
Texans, so DON'T 'F-IT-UP in 2011!"

steelbtexan
02-28-2011, 03:30 PM
I'll give you an example of why this is how the system has to be (although the O and D components of the example are reversed). So it is the 2006 draft. The team needs rebuilding on both sides of the ball. It comes to the 2nd round pick and the OC really likes a WR they have graded as a early 2nd round pick. But the Texans have a mid-first round grade on DeMeco Ryans and he is available at their pick which they never expected. Just like they did then, the best choice is to sprint to the podium, take DeMeco and tell the OC he needs to look at his options for a WR that may be available later. So the Texans end up with multiple pro-bowler DeMeco instead of Chad Jackson taken three picks later by the uber smart Patriots and get his career 171 yards receiving (and release two years later). That's smart drafting, not being dysfunctional.


Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.

Dutchrudder
02-28-2011, 04:07 PM
Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.

I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but in each of those drafts, what BPA did they pass on that wasn't a need?

infantrycak
02-28-2011, 04:34 PM
2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Underachieving and reach are two very different things. For example I saw lots, maybe even a majority of mocks in 2007, that had Okoye being taken before our pick. That isn't a reach. Brown yes was typically projected lower but not much and as it turns out the team right behind us was willing to make the same reach. Cushing was definitely not a reach and what is wrong with picking a non-reach person at a position of need? Jackson maybe a little but not by more than a few spots and he was definitely in the discussion before the draft - it isn't like he came out of nowhere.

Things definitely could have worked out better.

thunderkyss
02-28-2011, 04:36 PM
Would it be accurate, if I boiled this post down to:

"Kubiak, I REAAALLLLYYYY wanna believe you're "The Coach" for the
Texans, so DON'T 'F-IT-UP in 2011!"

Absolutely not. I said what I meant. But it is what it is. I'd rather spend my time rooting for my team, than crying over spilled milk. If Bob's master plan doesn't work, I won't be saying I told you so. If it does, I won't be saying I told you so. I'll be looking towards 2012 with the same skepticism as you.

thunderkyss
02-28-2011, 04:43 PM
Underachieving and reach are two very different things. For example I saw lots, maybe even a majority of mocks in 2007, that had Okoye being taken before our pick. That isn't a reach. Brown yes was typically projected lower but not much and as it turns out the team right behind us was willing to make the same reach. Cushing was definitely not a reach and what is wrong with picking a non-reach person at a position of need? Jackson maybe a little but not by more than a few spots and he was definitely in the discussion before the draft - it isn't like he came out of nowhere.

Things definitely could have worked out better.

Like you said, I don't think Okoye was a reach, he was supposed to have gone higher.

Brown, I don't know that he was a reach, Kubiak thought he was pretty lucky to have an opportunity to get him where we did. Smith thought it would have been rolling the dice to trade down again, and try to get Brown lower. They might have overevalued Brown, but they clearly felt he was a value pick where they got him.

& he's turning out to be a fine LT anyway.... so far, it looks as though they got the Brown pick right.

Cushing was not a reach.

KJac.... they had him rated higher than two CBs that weren't even supposed to be there. Maybe another case of over-valuing, but that remains to be seen, but still doesn't fit the definition of reach in my book.

Poor drafting.... maybe, but not because they are reaching.

Mr teX
02-28-2011, 05:00 PM
Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.


Okoye & Cushing certainly weren't reaches they went right about where everyone thought they'd go. Brown & Jackson yes techinically were "reaches" in the sense of the word but not by much..maybe a few slots ahead of where they would've gone anyway. The year brown was drafted, there was a tremendous run on LT's & if we were going to get any of the tackles that were worth a damn, we had to go ahead & get him....as of this moment, it doesn't appear that it has been a bad pick.

jackson had a rough rookie year. The 2nd year is supposed to be when players make the biggest jump so we'll see on him as he'll finally get some quality coaching & has a year under his belt.

Double Barrel
02-28-2011, 05:09 PM
Underachieving and reach are two very different things. For example I saw lots, maybe even a majority of mocks in 2007, that had Okoye being taken before our pick. That isn't a reach.

He was rated high, but there were also quite a few reports saying he'd be a "project player" until he matured enough to start and make an impact (mainly due to his age, iirc).

The problem with the Texans picking him is that we needed immediate impact on our line. So no, not a reach like a 3rd rounder getting picked in the first, but perhaps a 'reach' for a team that doesn't have the staff to consistently develop players over time. Obviously not the usual definition of reach as it pertains to the NFL draft, tho'.

I doubt we will see Wade draft players that have a 2-3 year development cycle. He's going to need some players that can start in 2011 and play well.

infantrycak
02-28-2011, 05:13 PM
He was rated high, but there were also quite a few reports saying he'd be a "project player" until he matured enough to start and make an impact (mainly due to his age, iirc).

I have no problem if someone wants to criticize Okoye as a project. I only quibbled with reach.

Double Barrel
02-28-2011, 05:17 PM
I have no problem if someone wants to criticize Okoye as a project. I only quibbled with reach.

I hear ya' (and agree).

I've softened my tone about Amobi over the years. It will be interesting to see what they do with him in Wade's defense, if he's even a fit for a 3-4.

infantrycak
02-28-2011, 05:21 PM
It will be interesting to see what they do with him in Wade's defense, if he's even a fit for a 3-4.

I think he is going to be an excellent rotation DE spelling both Mario and Smith. I know that isn't what you want out of your 1st round picks but it is what he seems best suited for in this transition and sometimes those decisions just have to get made.

dalemurphy
02-28-2011, 05:34 PM
Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.

Steel, I'm inclined to agree that their draft strategy in the 1st round has been flawed.

However, I don't think any of those picks(with the possible exception of Jackson), are examples of reaching. One could argue Brown was a reach, but it has been well-documented that he was coveted by the Chargers (who had the next pick)... Also, Brown is a better tackle than some of the tackles taken before him.

that being said, concentrating on drafting a 1st rounder that is an immediate plug and play is a big mistake, IMO... Either a team is assembled well enough to compete with other elite teams so that a targeted FA in an area of need is justified, or, the team is too far away... in which case, a rookie plugged into a position of need is not going to send the team over the top. Teams that don't draft for need, do much better. If the Texans were determined to draft for certain positions, the appropriate thing to do is to trade down, accumulating the position and extra picks to be spent on best available talent. I think the Texans are finally ready to use free agency to fill the needs. Unfortunatlely, I fear they will end up drafting for need (like they have done) once again in the first round now that the free agency period is likely to be AFTER the draft. We can't catch a freakin' break!

disaacks3
02-28-2011, 05:48 PM
I think he is going to be an excellent rotation DE spelling both Mario and Smith. I know that isn't what you want out of your 1st round picks but it is what he seems best suited for in this transition and sometimes those decisions just have to get made.

IMHO - that's been part of the problem. Not necessarily playing the Best player just due to draft status. If a guy isn't ready yet, he just isn't ready - I don't care if he's a #1 overall. Sit him, let him learn, let him play in a rotation or special situations. Let the ghost of HWSNBN haunt you forever for 'forcing' a guy into the lineup early.

My take:

2007- Okoye - not technically a reach, but VERY raw. Zero chance of immediate impact.

2008 - Brown- reached for need - Agreed. The guys we wanted were gone and we NEEDED a big LT. He's worked out, but at the time, he was a reach.

2009 - Cush - Cush/Matthews was the call - no reach, BPA.

2010 - Jackson - reached for need - Agreed. The Texans weren't the only ones who had him graded as highly, but they were outnumbered by the ones that didn't.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2011, 10:03 PM
IMHO - that's been part of the problem. Not necessarily playing the Best player just due to draft status. If a guy isn't ready yet, he just isn't ready - I don't care if he's a #1 overall. Sit him, let him learn, let him play in a rotation or special situations. Let the ghost of HWSNBN haunt you forever for 'forcing' a guy into the lineup early.

My take:

2007- Okoye - not technically a reach, but VERY raw. Zero chance of immediate impact.

2008 - Brown- reached for need - Agreed. The guys we wanted were gone and we NEEDED a big LT. He's worked out, but at the time, he was a reach.

2009 - Cush - Cush/Matthews was the call - no reach, BPA.

2010 - Jackson - reached for need - Agreed. The Texans weren't the only ones who had him graded as highly, but they were outnumbered by the ones that didn't.

And I'll vote the other way. For me, a reach is when you draft a guy who'll be there at your next pick. None of these guys would have been there at our next pick.

Most mock drafts had Okoye going long before our pick. By all accounts, Brown was going to be gone to the Chargers with the next pick. Cush was obviously not a reach. And lots of other teams with CB needs had Jackson picked highly. He wasn't the CB I expected us to take but the CB I expected us to take wasn't even the next CB taken.

Okoye and Jackson may not turn out to be good picks in the long run but given the information available to us, they weren't total incompetence picks, either.

JimBaker488
02-28-2011, 10:46 PM
2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Though a disappointment, Okoye was highly rated and not a reach. And
Kareem was also rated by many including Mike Mayock as a worthy first-rounder.
Brown was a definite reach, and there was a big, really very big red flag on Cushing for which the usually very risk-aversive and conservative Texans inexplicably ignored (they had to see it, eveybody else did !). And I would hardly say he "appears to have worked out" ?

steelbtexan
03-01-2011, 11:05 AM
I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but in each of those drafts, what BPA did they pass on that wasn't a need?

2007- I wanted Willis over OkOye, even though Ryans was drafted the yr before. Willis was the BPA at that time. IMHO Turns out Revis should've been the pick.

2008 I was OK with the Brown pick. Because it was a HOF Alex Gibbs pick and something needed to be done about the terrible LT play that had plagued this franchise since its inception. Browns play has been about what I expected. He's young and still has plenty of room for improvement.

2009-Cushing, Didn't have a problem with the Cushing pick. Even though I wanted Matthews.

2010 Jackson, terrible pick, I wanted them to beef the OL even more and draft Iupati. (He was gone) But Bulaga would've been my choice. There wasn't much difference between Jackson,McCourty or Wilson as 1st rds. Or Ghee,Murphy and Verner in rd 3/5. I felt this way at the time.

My top choices for the 2010 draft were R.Matthews,Iupati and Bulaga.

I feel the same way about the 2011 draft. If Miller/Peterson aren't there. I hope they dont reach for Amukamara. He's not that much different than A.Williams or Davon House. Who could be drafted late 1st early 2nd rd. My choices for the Texans if they cant trade down (Really hope they can) are Julio Jones,Cam Jordan or Muhammed Wilkerson at #11.

Wilkerson is a big fast guy that can play NT or DE. He weighs 315 lbs and has the frame to put on plenty of more LBS. He also has 35' in arm length. (Longest of any DT at the combine) and bench pressed 27 times. Which is alot harder to do than guys with short arms.

None of the 1st rd OLB's are any better than the 2nd/3rd guys. Reed/Moch/Carter. IMHO I hope they dont reach for a OLB in the 1st rd.

WolverineFan
03-01-2011, 11:14 AM
I know hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but in each of those drafts, what BPA did they pass on that wasn't a need?


2007 - Easy. Passed on Patrick Willis, Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, and Michael Griffin. All huge needs outside of Willis, who is a top 3 MLB in the league now. Okoye was a horrible pick. Obviously a 2nd rd talent who flew up draft boards because he was 19 yrs old and did well at the combine.

2008 - Antoine Cason or Curtis Lofton. We needed a CB and Cason had a tremendous college career. Lofton would be a great ILB in a 3-4, but again who knew we'd be running a 3-4 a few years later. Brown was a reach, but not a bad pick.

2009 - Cushing was a good pick and although hindsight tells you Clay Matthews, no way you could have known that at the time.

2010 - We passed on Dez Bryant. We also took Jackson over McCourty, who was considered the better prospect by everyone else.

infantrycak
03-01-2011, 11:16 AM
2007- I wanted Willis over OkOye

Sure there was plenty of debate about that. But you will admit many mocks had one or both of them being gone when the Texans picked and Okoye was the first of the two off the board in many mocks. Didn't get the best player available but they didn't reach for Okoye. Heck lots of teams the year before regretted not taking DeMeco.

If Miller/Peterson aren't there. I hope they dont reach for Amukamara.

Not arguing the merits of these particular guys, just with the terminology. Amuk isn't even expected to be available at #11 by lots of folks. That isn't a reach.

nero THE zero
03-01-2011, 11:36 AM
Yes it is smart drafting and it happened before Smith became GM.

Since Smith became GM there's been very little of what you've described happening in the Texans war room.

2007- Okoye - reached for need
2008 - Brown- reached for need
2009 - Cush - Drafted for need, luckily it appears to have worked out
2010 - Jackson - reached for need

Gary and Rick have a flawed drafting philosophy and unless they let Wade help them. They are going to lose their jobs. (Good riddance if they are going to be hard headed.)

I'm just saying what BoB described that's going on in the war room is dysfunctional and it's no wonder that the Texans drafts have stunk.

What's your definition of reach? You're arbitrarily labeling every pick a reach, regardless of circumstance.

thunderkyss
03-01-2011, 11:50 AM
2007- I wanted Willis over OkOye, even though Ryans was drafted the yr before. Willis was the BPA at that time. IMHO Turns out Revis should've been the pick.

2008 I was OK with the Brown pick. Because it was a HOF Alex Gibbs pick and something needed to be done about the terrible LT play that had plagued this franchise since its inception. Browns play has been about what I expected. He's young and still has plenty of room for improvement.

2009-Cushing, Didn't have a problem with the Cushing pick. Even though I wanted Matthews.

2010 Jackson, terrible pick, I wanted them to beef the OL even more and draft Iupati. (He was gone) But Bulaga would've been my choice. There wasn't much difference between Jackson,McCourty or Wilson as 1st rds. Or Ghee,Murphy and Verner in rd 3/5. I felt this way at the time.

My top choices for the 2010 draft were R.Matthews,Iupati and Bulaga.


I got it.... you define reach as anything not in accordance with your wishes.

Understood.

steelbtexan
03-01-2011, 12:51 PM
I define reach as to who I would pick vs who they pick and how the results of the Texans said pick turns out.

I've already called my shots as to who I think will be the best pick vs who might be available at #11. It will be interesting to see who they pick and who I would pick. Then look 3 yrs down the road and see how the 2 players compare.

So far the Texans have done a lousy job overall the last 4 yrs in the war room and this is the root of their little 6-10 problem. I mean last yr Gary didn't even see fit to show up at the combine. Talk about living on your 9-7 laurels. LOL

infantrycak
03-01-2011, 12:58 PM
I define reach as to who I would pick vs who they pick and how the results of the Texans said pick turns out.

Just curious, why insist on using a different definition than everyone else? Is bad pick or different pick than you would have made really that much harder to type out?

steelbtexan
03-01-2011, 12:59 PM
He was rated high, but there were also quite a few reports saying he'd be a "project player" until he matured enough to start and make an impact (mainly due to his age, iirc).

The problem with the Texans picking him is that we needed immediate impact on our line. So no, not a reach like a 3rd rounder getting picked in the first, but perhaps a 'reach' for a team that doesn't have the staff to consistently develop players over time. Obviously not the usual definition of reach as it pertains to the NFL draft, tho'.

I doubt we will see Wade draft players that have a 2-3 year development cycle. He's going to need some players that can start in 2011 and play well.

This describes my thought process better than the term reach or my previous post. The Texans sure do seem to draft alot of underachievers.

steelbtexan
03-01-2011, 01:08 PM
I think he is going to be an excellent rotation DE spelling both Mario and Smith. I know that isn't what you want out of your 1st round picks but it is what he seems best suited for in this transition and sometimes those decisions just have to get made.

We will have to agree to disagree.

OkOye has sucked for 4 yrs and I suspect he will suck for a 5th yr. Phillips didn't even mention him when he was talking about the roster and the DL. To me that speaks volumes.

Fandom is the only reason to think OkOye wont suck in 2011.

steelbtexan
03-01-2011, 01:13 PM
Just curious, why insist on using a different definition than everyone else? Is bad pick or different pick than you would have made really that much harder to type out?

Point is time will tell if they've made the right pick. I dont care about reach vs no reach. I care about the talent that has/is drafted. So far in 9 yrs that has = epic fail. Look at their record.

Just because Gary and Rick are better drafters than Casserly doesn't mean they are even average.

steelbtexan
03-01-2011, 01:15 PM
I got it.... you define reach as anything not in accordance with your wishes.

Understood.

Not very well understood.

Point is the Texans have done a very poor job drafting.

steelbtexan
03-01-2011, 01:27 PM
Steel, I'm inclined to agree that their draft strategy in the 1st round has been flawed.

However, I don't think any of those picks(with the possible exception of Jackson), are examples of reaching. One could argue Brown was a reach, but it has been well-documented that he was coveted by the Chargers (who had the next pick)... Also, Brown is a better tackle than some of the tackles taken before him.

that being said, concentrating on drafting a 1st rounder that is an immediate plug and play is a big mistake, IMO... Either a team is assembled well enough to compete with other elite teams so that a targeted FA in an area of need is justified, or, the team is too far away... in which case, a rookie plugged into a position of need is not going to send the team over the top. Teams that don't draft for need, do much better. If the Texans were determined to draft for certain positions, the appropriate thing to do is to trade down, accumulating the position and extra picks to be spent on best available talent. I think the Texans are finally ready to use free agency to fill the needs. Unfortunatlely, I fear they will end up drafting for need (like they have done) once again in the first round now that the free agency period is likely to be AFTER the draft. We can't catch a freakin' break!

Repped

Agree on all points except the FA thingy. Not gonna happen. Why do you think Gary said they're going to look at CB's in the draft. (Which I agree with BTW) Because all they are going to be signing in FA are the 2nd tier CB's like Josh Wilson for example. Even he would be an upgrade over the CB's that played last yr.

If Rick and Gary were serious about fixing the secondary. They would sign Ike Taylor and draft A.Williams or D.House late in the 1st (By trading up) or in the 2nd. That way we wouldn't be forced to watch the putrid performances of guys like McCain and Molden.

A secondary of Taylor,House, Jackson and Allen at CB

And Quin,McDaniel at S doesn't look so bad. The Texans just have to spend the resources to make it happen and I dont see them going that route. Hopefully I'm wrong.