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srrono
02-24-2011, 01:04 PM
today on 790 The Mighty Quin spoke of a proposed trade between houston and denver of Mario Williams for Elvis Dumervil anyone else hear this?

gtexan02
02-24-2011, 01:16 PM
Heres an article to back it up
http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/201102231057/2011-articles/february/trading-mario-williams-for-elvis-dumervil-its-a-good-thing.html

Interesting idea to say the least.

We're going to 3-4 and would get a 17 sack OLB and they're going to a 4-3 and would get a player Fox hopefully looks at as a future Peppers.

Could be a win-win

Second Honeymoon
02-24-2011, 01:16 PM
I am not a huge Mario guy, but that would be a bad trade. If it was for a healthy and productive Elvis that had had a good year and wasn't coming off a major injury, I would be more open to it...but Elvis was hurt.

I would be open to trading Mario for a Top5 maybe a Top10 overall pick in this NFL draft, but other than that we just need to see how Mario does in the new 3-4 alignment.

srrono
02-24-2011, 01:32 PM
Heres an article to back it up
http://www.xtrapointfootball.com/201102231057/2011-articles/february/trading-mario-williams-for-elvis-dumervil-its-a-good-thing.html

Interesting idea to say the least.

We're going to 3-4 and would get a 17 sack OLB and they're going to a 4-3 and would get a player Fox hopefully looks at as a future Peppers.

Could be a win-win

Thank You

BigBull17
02-24-2011, 01:38 PM
I am not a huge Mario guy, but that would be a bad trade. If it was for a healthy and productive Elvis that had had a good year and wasn't coming off a major injury, I would be more open to it...but Elvis was hurt.

I would be open to trading Mario for a Top5 maybe a Top10 overall pick in this NFL draft, but other than that we just need to see how Mario does in the new 3-4 alignment.

Mario for a draft pick? That's not very good for us. To much uncertainty, especially with Rick Smith drafting. You would have to get a haul. Similar to Jared Allen.

Yankee_In_TX
02-24-2011, 01:38 PM
LOL, so it would be in the same offseason (probably, we'll see if Bush takes a pay cut) - VY cut, Bush cut, and Mario traded?

infantrycak
02-24-2011, 01:41 PM
gtexan provided a link. Please do not quote entire articles. Thanks.

OzzO
02-24-2011, 01:44 PM
who's proposing the trade - Houston, Denver, or 790?

El Tejano
02-24-2011, 01:50 PM
A long time ago I either posted or created a thread talking about this possibility. I mentioned that my brother talked about the reasons why trading Mario wouldn't be a bad idea. Some of you agreed and some thought we were crazy. It doesn't seem so crazy now but like Second Honeymoon said, Mario for a previously injured player is not a good idea IMO. However I do have to consider the fact that every year we are given the same line that Mario disappearing in November is because he's playing injured.

infantrycak
02-24-2011, 01:50 PM
who's proposing the trade - Houston, Denver, or 790?

Just speculation.

And Dumervil has an extremely odd contract that pays $14 mil next year and goes down each year after. If he performs well that is just begging for problems. Plus while I agree Dumervil is not as well suited to a 4-3 I think Mario can excel in either system.

kiwitexansfan
02-24-2011, 01:53 PM
Mario for Dumervil and there 1st this year and 2nd next year would do it for me.

Dutchrudder
02-24-2011, 01:56 PM
Mario for Dumervil and there 1st this year and 2nd next year would do it for me.

If Josh McDaniels was still there, this would not sound so unlikely...

thunderkyss
02-24-2011, 02:05 PM
A long time ago I either posted or created a thread talking about this possibility. I mentioned that my brother talked about the reasons why trading Mario wouldn't be a bad idea. Some of you agreed and some thought we were crazy. It doesn't seem so crazy now but like Second Honeymoon said, Mario for a previously injured player is not a good idea IMO. However I do have to consider the fact that every year we are given the same line that Mario disappearing in November is because he's playing injured.

Sounds just as crazy now as it ever did.

That article is nothing more than a guy with a blog & nothing but time on his hands. No one remotely associated with either team is even discussing this as a possibility.

2slik4u
02-24-2011, 04:16 PM
Absolutely not. Mario is a guy you build your entire defense around. He is going to be great for a long time. He provides other things to our defense other than sack totals.

Not my chair, not my problem. Nope. Not eva.

Brisco_County
02-24-2011, 04:23 PM
Dumerville is more inclined to injury than Mario. I dont' like it.

There shouldn't be a discussion of trading Mario unless he is refusing to accept the new system.

dc_txtech
02-24-2011, 04:31 PM
Absolutely not. Mario is a guy you build your entire defense around. He is going to be great for a long time. He provides other things to our defense other than sack totals.

Not my chair, not my problem. Nope. Not eva.

Johnny hammersticks ova here hammerin away.

Doppelganger
02-24-2011, 04:39 PM
Just speculation.

And Dumervil has an extremely odd contract that pays $14 mil next year and goes down each year after. If he performs well that is just begging for problems. Plus while I agree Dumervil is not as well suited to a 4-3 I think Mario can excel in either system.

Dumervill excelled in the 4-3 as a DE.
2007 :as a rookie, 8.5 sacks in 13 games.(Denver in 4-3)
2008: second year player, 12.5 sacks in 16 games (Denver in 4-3)
2009: Third year, 5 sacks in 16 games, (first year in 3-4)
2010: Fourth year, 17 sacks in 16 games (second year in 3-4).

Dumervill is a football player. He excels in the 4-3 as a DE and the 3-4 as an OLB.

dalemurphy
02-24-2011, 05:36 PM
Dumerville is more inclined to injury than Mario. I dont' like it.

There shouldn't be a discussion of trading Mario unless he is refusing to accept the new system.


I think the trade talk is nonsense, but so is your statement that "Dumervil is more inclined to injury than Mario".

2006: Mario ineffective because of a foot injury
2007: great year
2008: great year
2009: Mario has shoulder injury that limits effectiveness all season
2010: Mario sucks except for 3 games because of sports hernia, eventual IR

That isn't exactly the best track record for a guy in his mid 20s.

Carr Bombed
02-24-2011, 05:59 PM
I am not a huge Mario guy, but that would be a bad trade. If it was for a healthy and productive Elvis that had had a good year and wasn't coming off a major injury, I would be more open to it...but Elvis was hurt.

I would be open to trading Mario for a Top5 maybe a Top10 overall pick in this NFL draft, but other than that we just need to see how Mario does in the new 3-4 alignment.

Mario is hurt every year also.... it's only a matter of time until those injuries start stacking up and he also misses games. Then throw in the fact that nobody knows what kind of player he's going to be in a 3-4 defense (He is no Bruce Smith).

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat.

dalemurphy
02-24-2011, 06:11 PM
Mario is hurt every year also.... it's only a matter of time until those injuries start stacking up and he also misses games. Then throw in the fact that nobody knows what kind of player he's going to be in a 3-4 defense (He is no Bruce Smith).

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat.

I'm not sure I would do the deal. One thing to think about, though, is the contract situation. Mario has one year left on his deal. Elvis has 5, I think. What is most significant about that is the trading team is responsible for the signing bonus figure on the salary cap... So, while trading Mario away would cost the Texans about a $3 million hit on the cap for 2011, none of Dumervil's signing bonus would ever count against the Texans cap. Therefore, his rather large contract would turn into a heck of a bargain because the Texans would only owe him his actual yearly salaries through 2015... In that respect, it would be an unbelievable deal...

actually, I just talked myself into it. I wish it wasn't make-believe, because the Texans would be foolish not to do it!

infantrycak
02-24-2011, 06:29 PM
Dumervill excelled in the 4-3 as a DE.
2007 :as a rookie, 8.5 sacks in 13 games.(Denver in 4-3)
2008: second year player, 12.5 sacks in 16 games (Denver in 4-3)
2009: Third year, 5 sacks in 16 games, (first year in 3-4)
2010: Fourth year, 17 sacks in 16 games (second year in 3-4).

Dumervill is a football player. He excels in the 4-3 as a DE and the 3-4 as an OLB.

Dumervil is great at getting sacks but that isn't the only thing a 4-3 DE has to do. He isn't near the complete DE Mario is hence his having almost half as many tackles.

I'm not sure I would do the deal. One thing to think about, though, is the contract situation. Mario has one year left on his deal. Elvis has 5, I think. What is most significant about that is the trading team is responsible for the signing bonus figure on the salary cap... So, while trading Mario away would cost the Texans about a $3 million hit on the cap for 2011, none of Dumervil's signing bonus would ever count against the Texans cap. Therefore, his rather large contract would turn into a heck of a bargain because the Texans would only owe him his actual yearly salaries through 2015... In that respect, it would be an unbelievable deal...

actually, I just talked myself into it. I wish it wasn't make-believe, because the Texans would be foolish not to do it!

The $3 mil is chicken feed. The major guarantee in Dumervil's contract is the salaries for the first three years, two now, because they are fully guaranteed. And the contract is set up as a hand grenade with the salaries front loaded. I just don't like the situation. Either you are guaranteeing a huge salary next year of $14 mil ($12 mil the next year) and he gets injured or if he stays healthy and plays well he is not playing out a contract that pays him millions less each year.

Scooter
02-24-2011, 07:01 PM
my issue with this proposed trade is that we'd be giving up a complete player for a specialist - at potentially the same position. i've been saying it for a couple years now that i think mario will actually perform better inside as a 3-4 defensive end. in my opinion mario has much more of richard seymore's skillset than he does a demarcus ware or even julius peppers - but he has enough of all that he can play the end position, outside DE in a nickel, as well as a stand up rusher. he can do all at a very high level while with dumerville you'd get a specialist.

it's a LOT easier to find and draft specialists than it is to get an anchor ... and easier to get those specialists (as well as the most out of them) when you already have an anchor in place. there's no way i'd make this move atleast until i see what barwin and/or draft pick do when playing beside mario - trading assets for someone like dumerville might be completely unnecessary.

dalemurphy
02-24-2011, 07:15 PM
Dumervil is great at getting sacks but that isn't the only thing a 4-3 DE has to do. He isn't near the complete DE Mario is hence his having almost half as many tackles.



The $3 mil is chicken feed. The major guarantee in Dumervil's contract is the salaries for the first three years, two now, because they are fully guaranteed. And the contract is set up as a hand grenade with the salaries front loaded. I just don't like the situation. Either you are guaranteeing a huge salary next year of $14 mil ($12 mil the next year) and he gets injured or if he stays healthy and plays well he is not playing out a contract that pays him millions less each year.

At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year. Perhaps his cap # is scheduled to be that in Denver next season... However, the cap # is figured by adding the scheduled salary with the signing bonus divided by contract years. So, if the signing bonus was $24 over the six year contract, then $4 million of that $14 million wouldn't transfer to Houston in a trade.

Therefore, if I am right about the mistake you are making, the Texans would owe $10 million in 2011 and $8 million in 2012... that still seems high. And, if his salary is descending as you have said it is, then I agree that will be asking for trouble.

Double Barrel
02-24-2011, 07:25 PM
No way does McNair & Co. trade Mario. I would be shocked if the idea would even be considered under the the most favorable of circumstances. If Mario was a trouble-maker, maybe, but he's not and he's one of the faces of the franchise as a very high profile no. 1 pick.

It will be interesting to see how Mario does under Wade's system, though. Wade is a proven commodity as DC, so if anything, this will certainly be a confirmation of Mario's skill set and true potential. I'm actually optimistic about it, and look forward to the defense that Wade establishes with this team.

ThaShark316
02-24-2011, 07:26 PM
lol...just lol

infantrycak
02-24-2011, 08:16 PM
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year. Perhaps his cap # is scheduled to be that in Denver next season... However, the cap # is figured by adding the scheduled salary with the signing bonus divided by contract years. So, if the signing bonus was $24 over the six year contract, then $4 million of that $14 million wouldn't transfer to Houston in a trade.

I'm going off what Rotoworld says and they are usually pretty good.

7/22/2010: Signed a six-year, $61.5 million contract. The deal contains $43.156 million guaranteed, including a $3 million signing bonus and Dumervil's first, second, and third years' base salaries. 2011-2012: $14 million, 2013: $12 million, 2014: $10 million, 2015: $8,193,335, 2016: Free Agent

Very small signing bonus, lots of guaranteed salary including salaries of $14 mil for the next two seasons.

Lucky
02-24-2011, 08:19 PM
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year.
From Rotoworld's Dumervil page (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3941/player?r=1):

7/22/2010: Signed a six-year, $61.5 million contract. The deal contains $43.156 million guaranteed, including a $3 million signing bonus and Dumervil's first, second, and third years' base salaries. 2011-2012: $14 million, 2013: $12 million, 2014: $10 million, 2015: $8,193,335, 2016: Free Agent

Dumervil is making $14 million this year and next year. Guaranteed. Just insane.

JimBaker488
02-24-2011, 08:44 PM
If I was going to use Mario as trade bait, I'd go after an established, veteran,
CB in his prime as my primary target. After all one of the advantages of
a 3-4 over a 4-3 is guys Elvis are less difficult to find than guys like Mario.
But if I was going to make the proposed trade in this thread, I'd need some serious boot with Elvis to make the deal since our guy is just more valuable.

EllisUnit
02-24-2011, 10:14 PM
today on 790 The Mighty Quin spoke of a proposed trade between houston and denver of Mario Williams for Elvis Dumervil anyone else hear this?

ummmm if so i say W. Philips needs to go :jogger:

Texans34Life
02-24-2011, 10:36 PM
Who wants to believe the Mighty *********? He is the worst sports talk host in Houston (Rich Lord comes reallyyyyyyyyy close).

JB
02-24-2011, 11:26 PM
ummmm if so i say W. Philips needs to go :jogger:

Care to expound on this a bit? I don't quite understand your reasoning

Revolution
02-24-2011, 11:51 PM
Who wants to believe the Mighty *********? He is the worst sports talk host in Houston (Rich Lord comes reallyyyyyyyyy close).

I was just about to post this about MG. He is horrible.

steelbtexan
02-25-2011, 12:03 AM
If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2012 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.

b0ng
02-25-2011, 12:21 AM
If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2011 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.

That's not the worst deal in the world but Dumervilles contract is really ugly. I've liked Doom since he came into the league the same year as Mario and I've always thought he was underrated.

However, I'd rather just pay Mario his last year and see what he does and how easy he would be to re-sign than pay Doom $14mil to come off an injury. Also, Dylan Gwinn is terrible as is the whole 10am - 12pm block on all 3 radio stations. I don't listen to 97.5 enough I'm sure.

Texecutioner
02-25-2011, 02:31 AM
Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.

thunderkyss
02-25-2011, 09:23 AM
Dumervil is making $14 million this year and next year. Guaranteed. Just insane.

I can see why Denver would be up for a trade.

HOU-TEX
02-25-2011, 09:47 AM
Like I-Cak said already, Mario is a more complete player than Dumerville ans it's not really a close comparison. Is Mario going to fit in our 3-4? Only time will tell, but if we're going to discuss imaginary trades for him we should at least make them good ones.

And who the hell is Mighty Quin? He should be fired just for the queer nickname alone.

Playoffs
02-25-2011, 09:49 AM
Just ..... :vincepalm:

2slik4u
02-25-2011, 10:16 AM
Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.

http://www.dor-lomin.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lebowski-opinion.jpg

dalemurphy
02-25-2011, 11:50 AM
Like I-Cak said already, Mario is a more complete player than Dumerville ans it's not really a close comparison. Is Mario going to fit in our 3-4? Only time will tell, but if we're going to discuss imaginary trades for him we should at least make them good ones.

And who the hell is Mighty Quin? He should be fired just for the queer nickname alone.

Whether Mario succeeds in the 3-4 will be entirely dependent upon his motivation and his health. I don't want to hear fans excusing poor play on Mario's part with the "wrong defensive scheme for him". He's a physical freak. Essentially, he will be playing similarly to LDE, which I think was his stronger side.

Mario is a FA after this season, so it will be interesting to see how everything unfolds. I tell you what, though. At this point, there is no way I would want the organization to extend him 6 years with a monster deal!

BattleRed56
02-25-2011, 12:33 PM
Mario will be the guy we all want him to be!!! ie..DeMarcus Ware and Shaun Merriman. Wade wil work with Mario.....or not!

CloakNNNdagger
02-25-2011, 05:44 PM
If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2011 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.

My guess is that the only way this trade goes down, it's because Wade and the Texans know something about Mario's injury status that we don't know...............and neither does Denver.

Dutchrudder
02-25-2011, 06:12 PM
I think a more likely trade would be to give up the Texans 11th pick and a 3rd or 4th for Dumerville. We need a OLB anyways, so why not get a proven guy with a big contract instead of a rookie we hope does well?

Lucky
02-25-2011, 07:09 PM
We need a OLB anyways, so why not get a proven guy with a big contract instead of a rookie we hope does well?
That contract is not big. It's obscene. It will be an albatross around the neck of that franchise.

The are defenders I would trade for Mario. DeMarcus Ware. Haloti Ngota. Darrelle Revis. Elvis Dumervil is not one of those defenders.

thunderkyss
02-25-2011, 10:32 PM
Essentially, he will be playing similarly to LDE, which I think was his stronger side.


What does it mean to play LDE?

What's the difference between LDE & RDE?

Why is he stronger on the Left side?

thunderkyss
02-25-2011, 10:37 PM
Mario will be the guy we all want him to be!!! ie..DeMarcus Ware and Shaun Merriman. Wade wil work with Mario.....or not!

Most of us, and Wade (judging by what he's said) don't see Mario as an OLB like Merriman, or Ware.

thunderkyss
02-25-2011, 10:38 PM
My guess is that the only way this trade goes down, it's because Wade and the Texans know something about Mario's injury status that we don't know...............and neither does Denver.

This won't go down, because this is not a trade proposal. It's not on the table, Denver is not talking to Houston. Houston is not talking to Denver.

This is just a figment of some nobody's imagination.

dalemurphy
02-26-2011, 11:35 AM
What does it mean to play LDE?

What's the difference between LDE & RDE?

Why is he stronger on the Left side?

Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).

Rey
02-26-2011, 11:42 AM
Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).

I agree that Mario played better on the strong side of the formation..He seems to thrive when he's consistently engaging blockers...

Put him in space and he looks a little less comfortable...

EllisUnit
02-26-2011, 01:19 PM
Care to expound on this a bit? I don't quite understand your reasoning

i'm saying that Williams is a fast powerful Defensive End and to get rid of such a play maker would be foolish, especially to bring in a guy who recently came off of a bad injury.

JB
02-26-2011, 02:01 PM
i'm saying that Williams is a fast powerful Defensive End and to get rid of such a play maker would be foolish, especially to bring in a guy who recently came off of a bad injury.

But why are you saying W. Phillips needs to go?

76Texan
02-26-2011, 02:06 PM
Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).

I don't think so Dale.
Mario played the 9 technique very often.

I haven't break down his games this year; but the previous year, he was equally effective as a strong side end as a weak side end.

thunderkyss
02-26-2011, 07:18 PM
I agree that Mario played better on the strong side of the formation..He seems to thrive when he's consistently engaging blockers...

Put him in space and he looks a little less comfortable...

I asked, not because I didn't know, but because Mario always followed the TE. He didn't play RDE or LDE, he played Strongside DE, wherever the TE lined up out of the huddle, that's where Mario was.

In Wade's 3-4, he'll line up the exact same way.

The Weak Side OLB will be our rush LB.

EllisUnit
02-27-2011, 08:19 PM
But why are you saying W. Phillips needs to go?

well i'm sure it would be wade who was the determining factor on the trade. considering its his style of defense and he's needing certain "types" of players. I'm sure he's saying who we need and who we don't. You think if he hadn't come here that trading Mario would of ever come up ???

JB
02-27-2011, 08:33 PM
well i'm sure it would be wade who was the determining factor on the trade. considering its his style of defense and he's needing certain "types" of players. I'm sure he's saying who we need and who we don't. You think if he hadn't come here that trading Mario would of ever come up ???

It didn't come up by anyone other than a radio talk show host that is not even from these parts!

EllisUnit
02-27-2011, 09:40 PM
It didn't come up by anyone other than a radio talk show host that is not even from these parts!

i'm not saying its true, i know its all speculation, but i'd be pretty mad IF it did happen. Do i think it will ??? NO, but u never know.

dalemurphy
02-28-2011, 01:00 PM
I don't think so Dale.
Mario played the 9 technique very often.

I haven't break down his games this year; but the previous year, he was equally effective as a strong side end as a weak side end.

I didn't see it last year.

Yankee_In_TX
02-28-2011, 01:30 PM
This won't go down, because this is not a trade proposal. It's not on the table, Denver is not talking to Houston. Houston is not talking to Denver.

This is just a figment of some nobody's imagination whose whole schtick is saying things that outrage his listeners so they call in and argue.

Fixed it for you.

gary
02-28-2011, 08:33 PM
Mario is the more all around DE but both of them are good at what they do. Neither one stays healthy which is the problem I have with this.

76Texan
03-01-2011, 12:47 AM
Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).

Mario plays the 9-tech mostly in a front called the Miami front (from Jimmy Johnson - Hurricanes to Cowboys).
It's a 4-man Over Front with the strong side DE lining up outside the TE.
A quick scan of the Colts game in week 1 shows him there at least a dozen time in the first half.
There's benefit both against the run and the pass because Mario is such a monster (when he's healthy.)
You can try to imagine why or I can come back to it later.

It's nothing new since we had used Mario this way for quite a few years already.

Not only that, when we're in the Under Front, as the weak side rush end, we also lined him up wide (sometimes as wide with the same spacing as if there's a TE there and he's a 9-tech).

We do that in a 3-man front at times as well.

It's not just Mario, we use other DEs that way from time to time as well.

76Texan
03-01-2011, 01:49 AM
Basically, in the Miami front, Mario plays pretty much as an OLB in the 3-4 (the SAM), except with hand(s) down.

When we bring another OLB up to the other side (Cushing for example), some of our 4-man fronts are exactly the same as some of Wade's 3-man fronts (but mostly with Mario putting a hand down even though he did play standing up once in awhile.)

I just pulled up the Giants game, and this one is one variation:
(8:04 in the first, on first and ten).

Mitchell at NT (directly over the C)
Smith at strong side end (directly over the RT), same as basic strong side 3-4 DE
Okoye at weakside DT (directly over the LT), same as basic weak side 3-4 DE
Mario at weakside DE, outside Okoye, lining up as a 9-tech, same as a 3-4 rush LB (the WILL), except with one hand down.
Cushing at SAM, outside the TE, same as the 3-4 SAM.

This is why I said that I can see Mario playing multiple positions in Wade 3-4.
He already did with the Texans!

dalemurphy
03-01-2011, 08:21 AM
Mario plays the 9-tech mostly in a front called the Miami front (from Jimmy Johnson - Hurricanes to Cowboys).
It's a 4-man Over Front with the strong side DE lining up outside the TE.
A quick scan of the Colts game in week 1 shows him there at least a dozen time in the first half.
There's benefit both against the run and the pass because Mario is such a monster (when he's healthy.)
You can try to imagine why or I can come back to it later.

It's nothing new since we had used Mario this way for quite a few years already.

Not only that, when we're in the Under Front, as the weak side rush end, we also lined him up wide (sometimes as wide with the same spacing as if there's a TE there and he's a 9-tech).

We do that in a 3-man front at times as well.

It's not just Mario, we use other DEs that way from time to time as well.


when I've seen Mario line up on the strong side, I remember him lining up over the TE (perhaps shading his outside)... he almost always engages the TE and sometimes the Tackle... Perhaps that is a 9 technique... It's not what I picture, though, when I think of it.

Carr Bombed
03-01-2011, 09:51 PM
The self proclaimed "Mighty Quinn" is a insufferable gas bag who's more than worn out his shtick. My ears bleed listening to him give himself verbal fellatio on air. Listened to him when he first came to town, because he was different, but can't stand him now, because it's now all forced...can't wait until his yankee ass gets canned.


That is all. :soapbox:

Texan_Bill
03-02-2011, 12:33 AM
The self proclaimed "Mighty Quinn" is a insufferable gas bag who's more than worn out his shtick. My ears bleed listening to him give himself verbal fellatio on air. Listened to him when he first came to town, because he was different, but can't stand him now, because it's now all forced...can't wait until his yankee ass gets canned.


That is all. :soapbox:

/END Thread!!!!!

steelbtexan
03-02-2011, 12:58 AM
I dont listen to mighty Quin.

I'm guessing he's anti BoB,Rick and Gary.

What do you disagree with him on. Or is it he's all schtick?

Carr Bombed
03-02-2011, 01:04 AM
I dont listen to mighty Quin.

I'm guessing he's anti BoB,Rick and Gary.

What do you disagree with him on. Or is it he's all schtick?

That, there's actually things we agree upon. But I can no longer stand to listen to his show. The best thing about that show is it only lasts two hours, he's the Rush Limbaugh of sports talk radio...and if he read this post, he'd would probably take this as a complement, because Rush Limbaugh is a huge success and then he would ramble on about how smart he is for at least 45 minutes. :rolleyes:

b0ng
03-02-2011, 01:15 AM
I dont listen to mighty Quin.

I'm guessing he's anti BoB,Rick and Gary.

What do you disagree with him on. Or is it he's all schtick?

It's not that I disagree with him, but he will always point out anything he's ever been right on in the past and will then do some self back-patting anytime he feels fancy. I also get the feeling that will have takes that are pretty far out there so he can spend the show defending himself and talking down to the callers. Also his delivery when he's making a "big point" is pretty grating, and just reminds me of a guy who is either entirely overconfident in his team or completely down on them and there is no middle ground.

Carr Bombed
03-02-2011, 01:18 AM
For Christ's sake, look at the photo he uses at the website.

http://www.sports790.com/pages/images/gwinn.jpg

He might as well have douche tattooed across his forehead....and there's plenty of forehead to stamp that tattoo on, you could probably even squeeze in a bag :)

steelbtexan
03-02-2011, 09:17 AM
For Christ's sake, look at the photo he uses at the website.

http://www.sports790.com/pages/images/gwinn.jpg

He might as well have douche tattooed across his forehead....and there's plenty of forehead to stamp that tattoo on, you could probably even squeeze in a bag :)

Photo says it all.

steelbtexan
03-02-2011, 09:23 AM
It's not that I disagree with him, but he will always point out anything he's ever been right on in the past and will then do some self back-patting anytime he feels fancy. I also get the feeling that will have takes that are pretty far out there so he can spend the show defending himself and talking down to the callers. Also his delivery when he's making a "big point" is pretty grating, and just reminds me of a guy who is either entirely overconfident in his team or completely down on them and there is no middle ground.

I will have to listen to him. I'm not a middle ground person.

With that said I dont care for this type of bait and argue type of talk show.

nero THE zero
03-02-2011, 09:53 AM
The self proclaimed "Mighty Quinn" is a insufferable gas bag who's more than worn out his shtick. My ears bleed listening to him give himself verbal fellatio on air. Listened to him when he first came to town, because he was different, but can't stand him now, because it's now all forced...can't wait until his yankee ass gets canned.


That is all. :soapbox:

Heh. So true. Except, I listened to him at first because he was the better of three evils during lunch. But, now that 1560 dumped Brando, I finally have a better option. Haven't touched 790 during lunch since.

I must admit, it was comical to listen to him fumble through some ambivalent, non-responsive answer when callers would call in with a technical question. He can handle the subjective, "Hey, Dillon, how come the Texans didn't sign Julius Peppers last year!? Is that why they didn't go to the playoffs?" questions. But, ask him about the intricacies of NFL rules and he deflects the question.

I also remember him talking about how Jahri Evans was a scrub the Saints didn't need to re-sign while Bushrod was a future all-pro after the Saints won the SB.

Dude's an tool. He's essentially the anti-Pallilo.

You'd think 790's standards would be higher now that they improved their line-up so much. He's old 790 standard quality. They'd do well to replace him.

BigBull17
03-02-2011, 09:58 AM
Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.

I agree that no one is un-trade able, but Mario isn't "just a guy" like some people act like he is. I know you are not. If he doesn't produce this year, then it's time to move on, but I would like to see him in a defense that isn't run by Gary's baby sitter.

76Texan
03-02-2011, 10:40 AM
when I've seen Mario line up on the strong side, I remember him lining up over the TE (perhaps shading his outside)... he almost always engages the TE and sometimes the Tackle... Perhaps that is a 9 technique... It's not what I picture, though, when I think of it.

No, in the Miami front, Mario always lines up outside the TE (9-tech) or wider.

On run play to the strong side, Mario could step up a couple of yards into the backfield (taking away the D gap). He also pushes the TE toward the inside; and because he's so strong for the TE to handle, he's quite successful at pushing the TE past the C gap.
In another word, he can take care of two gaps even though his main responsibility is only the D gap.

There are times when he's such a monster, he shuts down the whole side (D gap plus part of the alley and the C gap.)

If he's on the weakside, by doing the same to the offensive tackle, Mario makes it very difficult for any cut back run toward the weak side.

In the passing game, Mario is simply to strong for the TE to handle (if he stays back to block.)
If the TE releases, the strong side offensive tackle has a long way to slide over to take on the block.
On the other hand, Mario is so quick, he can get past the edge and go after the QB.
If the offensive tackle wants to slide over quicker, he normally has to get up off his bend/hunch. And when he plays high like that, it's easy for Mario to bull rush him into the QB, or push him back and get to the QB to the inside.

Every time I rewatch the Colts game in week one, I wish Mario can stay healthy. He was simply a one-man wrecking crew out there!

thunderkyss
03-02-2011, 10:45 AM
I agree that no one is un-trade able, but Mario isn't "just a guy" like some people act like he is. I know you are not. If he doesn't produce this year, then it's time to move on, but I would like to see him in a defense that isn't run by Gary's baby sitter.

While Mario may not like it (I don't know if that is true or not) we'll just be creating another hole, if we were to let him go. I've got faith in Antonio & Amobi to be able to play the DE position in a 3-4, but not a whole lot.

I think we have enough problems trying to put together a roster as is, no reason to create more.

I also think keeping Gary & bringing in Wade is Bob's latest effort to make something happen now. That being the case, I don't think he's too worried about the good trading Mario now can have for the future. Good or bad, I think that's the way we're going.

If he doesn't produce this year, chances are we'll lose him next year, with no compensation, or franchise him...... it's a predicament we got our selves in, and we'll just have to deal with it.

If there is no contract extension (maybe hard to do with the CBA & all right now), this summer, we may be seeing the end of Mario's career in Houston.

thunderkyss
03-02-2011, 10:51 AM
In the passing game, Mario is simply to strong for the TE to handle (if he stays back to block.)
If the TE releases, the strong side offensive tackle has a long way to slide over to take on the block.
On the other hand, Mario is so quick, he can get past the edge and go after the QB.
If the offensive tackle wants to slide over quicker, he normally has to get up off his bend/hunch. And when he plays high like that, it's easy for Mario to bull rush him into the QB, or push him back and get to the QB to the inside.

Every time I rewatch the Colts game in week one, I wish Mario can stay healthy. He was simply a one-man wrecking crew out there!

I like Mario just as much as the next guy. & I've seen some of the things you point out. But his game can be, and really should be (by now) better than what it is. He's an outside guy/bull rush...... and very rarely does he go to the bull rush. As athletic as he is, he should be able to stunt outside, fake outside, or punch an OT to the outside, then cut back inside/under..... or even develop a spin back to the inside. Once he can do that, & actually mix it up, then he'll be a monster. Then he'll be able to take over games.

Now, I'd say he's above average, beastly when 100% like at the beginning of the 2010 season. But nowhere near where he should be at this point in his career.

I liked Kollar, I like what he did with what he had in Buffalo. I expected Mario to benefit & develop with a real DL coach. I know it's only been 1.5 seasons, but I'm wondering what he's waiting on.

76Texan
03-02-2011, 11:12 AM
I like Mario just as much as the next guy. & I've seen some of the things you point out. But his game can be, and really should be (by now) better than what it is. He's an outside guy/bull rush...... and very rarely does he go to the bull rush. As athletic as he is, he should be able to stunt outside, fake outside, or punch an OT to the outside, then cut back inside/under..... or even develop a spin back to the inside. Once he can do that, & actually mix it up, then he'll be a monster. Then he'll be able to take over games.

Now, I'd say he's above average, beastly when 100% like at the beginning of the 2010 season. But nowhere near where he should be at this point in his career.

I liked Kollar, I like what he did with what he had in Buffalo. I expected Mario to benefit & develop with a real DL coach. I know it's only been 1.5 seasons, but I'm wondering what he's waiting on.

Mario injured his hip in the third practice but play through it.
But then he got a groin injury that lingered until they had to put him on IR.

His teammates knew he had been struggling with the injury for a while, but fellow defensive end Antonio Smith realized it had gotten worse during Monday night's loss to Baltimore.

"He was fighting and you could just tell that he was in a lot of pain," Smith said. "It was hard to play with. It hindered him in this last game to the point where I knew it was something seriously wrong. After one play he just stopped and ... said: 'Man I think something's really wrong.'"

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5923473

It was eventually diagnozed as a sport hernia:

Following sporting activity the person with athletic pubalgia (sport hernia) will be stiff and sore. The day after a match, getting out of bed or a car will be difficult. Any exertion that increases intra-abdominal pressure, such as coughing, sneezing, or sporting activity can cause pain. In the early stages, the person may be able to continue playing their sport, but the problem usually gets progressively worse.

As pain in the groin and pelvis can be referred from a number of problems, including injuries to the lumbar spine, the hip joint, the sacro-iliac joint, the abdomen, and the genito-urinary system, diagnosis of athletic pubalgia requires skillful differentiation and pubic examination in certain cases where there is intense groin pain.

steelbtexan
03-02-2011, 11:44 AM
I like Mario just as much as the next guy. & I've seen some of the things you point out. But his game can be, and really should be (by now) better than what it is. He's an outside guy/bull rush...... and very rarely does he go to the bull rush. As athletic as he is, he should be able to stunt outside, fake outside, or punch an OT to the outside, then cut back inside/under..... or even develop a spin back to the inside. Once he can do that, & actually mix it up, then he'll be a monster. Then he'll be able to take over games.

Now, I'd say he's above average, beastly when 100% like at the beginning of the 2010 season. But nowhere near where he should be at this point in his career.

I liked Kollar, I like what he did with what he had in Buffalo. I expected Mario to benefit & develop with a real DL coach. I know it's only been 1.5 seasons, but I'm wondering what he's waiting on.

Cant rep you

Spot On analysis. I dont know if MW will ever get what you speak of here. Plus MW is an injury waiting to happen. If a guy (MW) is only good for 5-6 games and great for 2-3 I dont see that as being elite.

Hometown fans always tend to overrate the hometown guys. What's scary is the talent that MW has if he was to go somewhere else and have his drive match his god given ability. He would be a multiple time all-pro and the Texans brass would have egg on their collective face.

The problem is so far in college and the pros his production hasn't met up to his ability. TK sitting here today would you sign MW to a big contract extention? I dont think I would as of right now. Because that $$$$ could be better spent on several players and the team would be more well rounded.

If MW comes in and adapts to Wades defense and has a really good yr. (I'm not just talking about sacks.) Then I would have to reconsider that decision.

BTW I would be concerned if MW has a big 2011 season that after he gets paid his effort level would drop. This is the conundrum facing McNair.

dalemurphy
03-02-2011, 11:53 AM
Cant rep you

Spot On analysis. I dont know if MW will ever get what you speak of here. Plus MW is an injury waiting to happen. If a guy (MW) is only good for 5-6 games and great for 2-3 I dont see that as being elite.

Hometown fans always tend to overrate the hometown guys. What's scary is the talent that MW has if he was to go somewhere else and have his drive match his god given ability. He would be a multiple time all-pro and the Texans brass would have egg on their collective face.

The problem is so far in college and the pros his production hasn't met up to his ability. TK sitting here today would you sign MW to a big contract extention? I dont think I would as of right now. Because that $$$$ could be better spent on several players and the team would be more well rounded.

If MW comes in and adapts to Wades defense and has a really good yr. (I'm not just talking about sacks.) Then I would have to reconsider that decision.

BTW I would be concerned if MW has a big 2011 season that after he gets paid his effort level would drop. This is the conundrum facing McNair.


I'd have to treat Mario just like the Titans treated Haynesworth: let him play out his contract this year. Then, if he dominates, franchise him in 2012 and prepare to let him walk in 2013.

thunderkyss
03-02-2011, 10:52 PM
Cant rep you

Spot On analysis. I dont know if MW will ever get what you speak of here. Plus MW is an injury waiting to happen. If a guy (MW) is only good for 5-6 games and great for 2-3 I dont see that as being elite.

Hometown fans always tend to overrate the hometown guys. What's scary is the talent that MW has if he was to go somewhere else and have his drive match his god given ability. He would be a multiple time all-pro and the Texans brass would have egg on their collective face.


How many players have we had go on IR?

What was the deal with DD? How long did it take Dunta to recover? OD?

I've got my fingers crossed, that it isn't Mario.... but whatever it is, Wade sniffs it out & get's rid of it.

HoustonFrog
03-04-2011, 09:17 AM
I'm not sure if any of you were lsitening to 1560 on the way to work yesterday but interesting story by Lance. Seems Mario is really into riding his Harley around. He hangs with a group of guys who rides bikes around. LZ says one of his buddies in that group and that Mario tells them all the time that football isn't the most important thing. The context of the conversation was having a guy like AJ Hawk or others who live and breath football. Do the Texans have many guys who take the job as their life. I've never looked at Mario as a guy who is fully committed or always in the game. Special talent but not a guy I'd be afraid to lose for the right price.

Second Honeymoon
03-04-2011, 10:36 AM
I'd have to treat Mario just like the Titans treated Haynesworth: let him play out his contract this year. Then, if he dominates, franchise him in 2012 and prepare to let him walk in 2013.

This

If Mario doesn't make more of an impact, the Texans shouldn't pay him the big money in 2013. I am all for franchising him in 2012 though. I would also be open to a trade if he doesn't start kicking some ass.

Double Barrel
03-04-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm not sure if any of you were lsitening to 1560 on the way to work yesterday but interesting story by Lance. Seems Mario is really into riding his Harley around. He hangs with a group of guys who rides bikes around. LZ says one of his buddies in that group and that Mario tells them all the time that football isn't the most important thing. The context of the conversation was having a guy like AJ Hawk or others who live and breath football. Do the Texans have many guys who take the job as their life. I've never looked at Mario as a guy who is fully committed or always in the game. Special talent but not a guy I'd be afraid to lose for the right price.

I like Mario, but honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. People keep bringing up Bruce Smith for comparison, but I just don't see the fire and passion in Mario that I saw in Bruce for many, many years.

I think AJ is, without a doubt, one of those "football is my life" players. I'm not sure how many we have, but I'd be willing to bet we have at least a few more (at least from public persona, since that's all we have to judge by). DeMeco seems like one, as well as...ummm...maybe Cushing?

thunderkyss
03-04-2011, 09:07 PM
I like Mario, but honestly, this doesn't surprise me at all. People keep bringing up Bruce Smith for comparison, but I just don't see the fire and passion in Mario that I saw in Bruce for many, many years.

I think AJ is, without a doubt, one of those "football is my life" players. I'm not sure how many we have, but I'd be willing to bet we have at least a few more (at least from public persona, since that's all we have to judge by). DeMeco seems like one, as well as...ummm...maybe Cushing?

Football is only a diversion

Carr Bombed
03-05-2011, 12:34 AM
Does anybody remember the #1 knock on Mario Williams when he was coming out of NC St?

:thinking:


His best season as a pro is when he was trying to prove the national media wrong. I still like him though, just don't see how he fits this system.

Lucky
03-05-2011, 01:13 PM
I'm not sure if any of you were lsitening to 1560 on the way to work yesterday but interesting story by Lance. Seems Mario is really into riding his Harley around. He hangs with a group of guys who rides bikes around. LZ says one of his buddies in that group and that Mario tells them all the time...
That has to be accurate. A radio host knows a guy who rides Harleys with Mario. We're supposed to take something like this seriously?

infantrycak
03-05-2011, 01:59 PM
That has to be accurate. A radio host knows a guy who rides Harleys with Mario. We're supposed to take something like this seriously?

Thank you.

The Pencil Neck
03-05-2011, 02:11 PM
That has to be accurate. A radio host knows a guy who rides Harleys with Mario. We're supposed to take something like this seriously?

Apparently, I have to spread rep around...

infantrycak
03-05-2011, 02:22 PM
Oh and I won't claim to know Mario doesn't own a Harley but I am pretty sure he prefers sport bikes.

nero THE zero
03-06-2011, 08:58 AM
Oh and I won't claim to know Mario doesn't own a Harley but I am pretty sure he prefers sport bikes.

Do they make sport bikes for 6'7" 300 lbs?

Dishman
03-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Oh and I won't claim to know Mario doesn't own a Harley but I am pretty sure he prefers sport bikes.

Pretty sure based on a peek you've taken in his garage or pretty sure based on personal speculation ala some certain radio host?

infantrycak
03-06-2011, 09:32 AM
Pretty sure based on a peek you've taken in his garage or pretty sure based on personal speculation ala some certain radio host?

Pretty sure based on his being a speed freak and having seen a report of his buying a GSXR at one point.

thunderkyss
03-06-2011, 01:38 PM
Do they make sport bikes for 6'7" 300 lbs?

I think they call them Hyabusa's...

I'm not quite 6'7" but a Hybusa fits under me very well, with room to grow.

HoustonFrog
03-07-2011, 12:31 PM
That has to be accurate. A radio host knows a guy who rides Harleys with Mario. We're supposed to take something like this seriously?

Thank you.


I posted it because it was LZ. I'm not saying the guy us infallible or knows all but he is pretty much, along with Harris, as close to football gurus as we have here in town. He also, because of his Dad, is in the know with agents, other players, etc. I don't think it really would have been brought up unless he trusted the source. Again, you can take it for what its worth but to me it fits the Mario we see to a tee. It was just something presented for public consumption. Considering he has been right on many similar issues over the year....the facts on Cushing suspension, etc... I thought it was worth a post.

Don't kill the poster. Geez. You know me, I make a habit of rumor mongering.:rolleyes:

And it would have been any bike...he said bikes and I assumed Harley due to size of the crotch rockets out there.