PDA

View Full Version : BL Pre-Combine Mock w/NE trade


beerlover
02-20-2011, 03:36 PM
New England trades with Houston the 17th pick in the 1st along with 10th pick in 3rd. + 28th pick in 4th (1218) for the 11th pick overall (1250) to get JJ Watt, DE Wisconsin who will become their bookend 5 technique DE. several teams ahead of them Minnesota, Detroit & St. Louis would love to get their hands on him. I'm also going to include the compensatory pick via Dunta Robinson (Knowing fully well Lucky, kiwitexansfan are going to kill me).

1st. (17th pick of rd.) - Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA, 6040 254

After breaking down film of all the prospects to project for the Texans @ OLB Akeem has the most complete skill set. He will not be a liability in pass coverage, he can set the corner, solid in run support & shows excellent athletic skills to rush the passer. Not explosive but always charging with excellent pursuit & ball skills in turnover department. A very safe pick, the second best fit for Texans need @ OLB after Von Miller.

2nd. (Texans #10 pick of rd.) Muhammed Wilkerson, DE/DT, Temple, 6050 303

If unable to trade down the Texans just may select JJ Watt with 11th overall pick? Too many question marks for me going into next season converting 4-3 DT/DE's to 3-4 DE's. The Texans need to reinforce the edge with nasty, size strength starting quality player & Wilkerson is shooting up draft boards as a viable 5 technique DE prospect.

3rd. (Texans #9 pick of rd.) - Shareece Wright, CB, USC, 6000 187

I'm looking for close to finished product with length, good skills like back peddle, ability to locate the ball in the air & contest WR for possession. He is one of the CB's I'm paying extra close attention to @ the upcoming combine if he runs under a 4.40 he'll be gone but if expected runs in the 4.45-4.5 range he should still be on the board here.

3rd. (Texans via New England via Minnesota #10 of rd.) - Dontay Moch, OLB, Nevada, 6020 229

Pass rushing specialist, developmental OLB. Could actually test out with best speed in class @ combine something Texans covet. I know this is another OLB prospect pretty high, but while Ayers is a everydown OLB Moch's value is in pass rushing situations when Wade wants to bring the house. Plus he was exposed to him coaching the East West Shrine game.

3rd. (supplemental pick awarded compensation for Dunta Robinson) Deunta Williams, S, North Carolina, 6020 205

Coming into the draft off a fractured right fibula last game of season, if not for his injury he would be projected much higher (2nd rd. grade). I was really looking for a center fielder type with ball skills, after reviewing film he stood out in this class in that department. The good news is the Texans will not be in a rush to start him too soon & let him develop, strengthen & feel comfortable putting him in position to succeed.


4th (Texans #8th pick of rd.) Terrell McClain, DT/NT, South Florida, 6020 310

Impressed @ Shriner game (Wade Phillips coaching) late invite to Senior Bowl. Stock rising because of compact & stout lower torso would be nice DT to develop @ nose, very similar to Ratliff who was drafted by Cowboys in latter rounds but proved to be a steal because of work ethic & fit into Wade system.

4th (Texans via New England #28th of rd.) Cecil Shorts III, WR, Mount Union, 6000 200

Represents great small school prospect value http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfn3oxSbJ6A Jacoby may leave via FA & even if not would upgrade depth chart behind Walter.

5th (Texans #7th pick of rd.) Willie Smith, OT, ECU, 6050 300

Another uncertainty heading into FA is status of Rashad Butler? Texans have done a nice job developing him question is will it be for another team willing to pay him starting OT money? Hence addressing roster with similar talent to groom once again is Smith who is excellent in run blocking, having helped pave lanes for Chris Johnson while @ ECU. All-Conference USA First Team.

6th (Texans #13th pick of rd.) Ryan Bartholomew, C, Syracuse, 6010 300

Always a good idea to bolster the trenches. I was expecting more from Antoine Caldwell & less of Chris Myers but actually the reverse has happened. These late rd. linemen need time to groom & develop so by the time he is ready, Myers could be on his downside or needed for depth purposes. Shows leadership required for position, hard worker solid base able to hold the point.

7th (Texans #12th pick of rd.) Allen Bradford, RB, USC, 6000 235

Big, powerful back, proficient in pass pro. Adds depth (PS) replacing Ward who is a FA similar size 5011 228. low cost developmental, could get call up with injury's or needed depth on special teams & goal line carries to rotate with Foster/Tate. 110 carries his senior year for 794 yds. 5 TD's with a 7.2 yards per carry average. Decisive downhill runner who fits ZBS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfcSvZ5akTc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12KlrbyFYXM&feature=related

kiwitexansfan
02-20-2011, 04:58 PM
I see your still smoking that good '3rd comp for Dunta' stuff...

beerlover
02-20-2011, 05:17 PM
I see your still smoking that good '3rd comp for Dunta' stuff...

must be the same stuff Rick Smith was smoking :htown2atx:

Ndevine7
02-20-2011, 07:04 PM
I like it i just dont know if the Pats will do this. They always trade down to get more picks not usually trade up.

Lucky
02-20-2011, 09:55 PM
I like it i just dont know if the Pats will do this. They always trade down to get more picks not usually trade up.
That's generally true. But this year, the Pats are sitting with 2 picks in each of the 1st 3 rounds. They don't need more picks, they need impact players. I think they would trade up for a playmaking WR for Brady, not a 3-4 DE. There are about a half dozen prospects that fit that profile who would be available where the Pats pick at 17, 28, and 33.
I see your still smoking that good '3rd comp for Dunta' stuff...

must be the same stuff Rick Smith was smoking :htown2atx:
Did Rick Smith say the Texans were in line for a 3rd round comp pick for Dunta? If so, I would love to see that quote.

beerlover
02-20-2011, 10:02 PM
While I included several positions drafted because of losing players via free agency I did not address players Texans may target themselves via FA. This year the tables are turned (unless a breakthrough in CBA negotiations occurs) so the Texans need to focus on taking the bpa @ positions of need first then address remaining needs via free agency when officially opened. I tried to address as many defensive as well offensive needs as possible (in this case trading down is key) impossible to fill every need, every position in one draft year/free agency. While I don't have any inside information to suggest this will happen, in Jon McClain article in Chronicle Rick Smith did say this- "Just because we haven't gone up doesn't mean we're averse to it," Smith said. "We'll entertain every option available to us if we feel it's a player who can make a significant difference. I'm not averse to trading up or down. I think my track record says I'll do deals."

beerlover
02-20-2011, 10:18 PM
Did Rick Smith say the Texans were in line for a 3rd round comp pick for Dunta? If so, I would love to see that quote.

given the high profile of matter you know as well as I do they are not going to make a public statement as such, as risk assessment managers they must calculate by allowing a former number one to walk they would get something in return. In my book Dunta Robinson value to this team was not worth the suffering last season at any cost little lone a sandwich pick between the 3rd & 4th rounds. He took a risk & lost if he doesn't receive fair compensation for his losses then its a double whammy :toropalm:

steelbtexan
02-20-2011, 10:25 PM
I see your still smoking that good '3rd comp for Dunta' stuff...

LZ thinks they will get a 3rd for Dunta.

Lucky
02-20-2011, 10:27 PM
given the high profile of matter you know as well as I do they are not going to make a public statement as such...
That's what I thought. Rick Smith said nothing about getting a comp pick and you just made it up.
LZ thinks they will get a 3rd for Dunta.
Well, he's misinformed.

steelbtexan
02-20-2011, 10:35 PM
given the high profile of matter you know as well as I do they are not going to make a public statement as such, as risk assessment managers they must calculate by allowing a former number one to walk they would get something in return. In my book Dunta Robinson value to this team was not worth the suffering last season at any cost little lone a sandwich pick between the 3rd & 4th rounds. He took a risk & lost if he doesn't receive fair compensation for his losses then its a double whammy :toropalm:

Yep.

The way things work for Gary and Rick, they probably will get a 5th/6th rd sandwich pick. They will say they knew what they were going to get all along. How good Jackson is looking and how over the hill Dunta is.

Some of this is true (Dunta over hill) most of it is BS.

beerlover
02-20-2011, 10:41 PM
That's what I thought. Rick Smith said nothing about getting a comp pick and you just made it up.

Well, he's misinformed.

common sense. like knowing to put disclaimer you would hate that I included supplemental compensation pick? :roast:

on the serious side your probably right- http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-texans/2011/2/15/1995540/dunta-robinson-is-not-giving-the-texans-a-third-round-pick but until a decision is made I'm holding out hope, :texan: something we've faced since Bob McNair announced Houston was bidding to get a franchise back here to Houston.

Blake
02-21-2011, 08:03 AM
3rd. (Texans via New England via Minnesota #10 of rd.) - Dontay Mock, OLB, Nevada, 6020 229


Dontay Mock?

Ndevine7
02-21-2011, 08:54 AM
Dontay Mock?

Assuming he meant Dontay Moch

rmartin65
02-21-2011, 03:09 PM
New England trades with Houston the 17th pick in the 1st along with 10th pick in 3rd. + 28th pick in 4th (1218) for the 11th pick overall (1250) to get JJ Watt, DE Wisconsin who will become their bookend 5 technique DE. several teams ahead of them Minnesota, Detroit & St. Louis would love to get their hands on him. I'm also going to include the compensatory pick via Dunta Robinson (Knowing fully well Lucky, kiwitexansfan are going to kill me).

1st. (17th pick of rd.) - Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA, 6040 254

After breaking down film of all the prospects to project for the Texans @ OLB Akeem has the most complete skill set. He will not be a liability in pass coverage, he can set the corner, solid in run support & shows excellent athletic skills to rush the passer. Not explosive but always charging with excellent pursuit & ball skills in turnover department. A very safe pick, the second best fit for Texans need @ OLB after Von Miller.

2nd. (Texans #10 pick of rd.) Muhammed Wilkerson, DE/DT, Temple, 6050 303

If unable to trade down the Texans just may select JJ Watt with 11th overall pick? Too many question marks for me going into next season converting 4-3 DT/DE's to 3-4 DE's. The Texans need to reinforce the edge with nasty, size strength starting quality player & Wilkerson is shooting up draft boards as a viable 5 technique DE prospect.

3rd. (Texans #9 pick of rd.) - Shareece Wright, CB, USC, 6000 187

I'm looking for close to finished product with length, good skills like back peddle, ability to locate the ball in the air & contest WR for possession. He is one of the CB's I'm paying extra close attention to @ the upcoming combine if he runs under a 4.40 he'll be gone but if expected runs in the 4.45-4.5 range he should still be on the board here.

3rd. (Texans via New England via Minnesota #10 of rd.) - Dontay Moch, OLB, Nevada, 6020 229

Pass rushing specialist, developmental OLB. Could actually test out with best speed in class @ combine something Texans covet. I know this is another OLB prospect pretty high, but while Ayers is a everydown OLB Moch's value is in pass rushing situations when Wade wants to bring the house. Plus he was exposed to him coaching the East West Shrine game.

3rd. (supplemental pick awarded compensation for Dunta Robinson) Deunta Williams, S, North Carolina, 6020 205

Coming into the draft off a fractured right fibula last game of season, if not for his injury he would be projected much higher (2nd rd. grade). I was really looking for a center fielder type with ball skills, after reviewing film he stood out in this class in that department. The good news is the Texans will not be in a rush to start him too soon & let him develop, strengthen & feel comfortable putting him in position to succeed.


4th (Texans #8th pick of rd.) Terrell McClain, DT/NT, South Florida, 6020 310

Impressed @ Shriner game (Wade Phillips coaching) late invite to Senior Bowl. Stock rising because of compact & stout lower torso would be nice DT to develop @ nose, very similar to Ratliff who was drafted by Cowboys in latter rounds but proved to be a steal because of work ethic & fit into Wade system.

4th (Texans via New England #28th of rd.) Cecil Shorts III, WR, Mount Union, 6000 200

Represents great small school prospect value http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfn3oxSbJ6A Jacoby may leave via FA & even if not would upgrade depth chart behind Walter.

5th (Texans #7th pick of rd.) Willie Smith, OT, ECU, 6050 300

Another uncertainty heading into FA is status of Rashad Butler? Texans have done a nice job developing him question is will it be for another team willing to pay him starting OT money? Hence addressing roster with similar talent to groom once again is Smith who is excellent in run blocking, having helped pave lanes for Chris Johnson while @ ECU. All-Conference USA First Team.

6th (Texans #13th pick of rd.) Ryan Bartholomew, C, Syracuse, 6010 300

Always a good idea to bolster the trenches. I was expecting more from Antoine Caldwell & less of Chris Myers but actually the reverse has happened. These late rd. linemen need time to groom & develop so by the time he is ready, Myers could be on his downside or needed for depth purposes. Shows leadership required for position, hard worker solid base able to hold the point.

7th (Texans #12th pick of rd.) Allen Bradford, RB, USC, 6000 235

Big, powerful back, proficient in pass pro. Adds depth (PS) replacing Ward who is a FA similar size 5011 228. low cost developmental, could get call up with injury's or needed depth on special teams & goal line carries to rotate with Foster/Tate. 110 carries his senior year for 794 yds. 5 TD's with a 7.2 yards per carry average. Decisive downhill runner who fits ZBS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfcSvZ5akTc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12KlrbyFYXM&feature=related

I would love to see a trade down happen, but until I see it, I cant believe it. However, if the trade does happen, I love the draft.

1) Ayers is a very solid pick here. Good all-around LB, solid value at the 17.

2) I like it, but I dont think he is a NT. I would stick him at DE, and watch him tear it up. That said, he is an ideal 4-3 DT, so in any 4 man fronts he will be useful.

3) First meh pick here. I dont know about a CB in the third, we have a lot of people there. We need a starter, and I dont know if Wright can be that guy.

3) We have had our discussions on Moch- lots of speed and potential, but a lot of risk. With the amount of picks the Texans have if your trade goes down, this is a good place to swing for the fences.

3) If the comp pick happens, Williams is my guy here. Great pick.

4) Another player we have heavily discussed. Looked great in the post season, but I have heavy reservations about guys who make their mark in allstar games and shorts. Still, you have a good track record (scouting Joseph and Mitchell last year), so this is not a bad pick. Just one I would have gone another direction with.

4) Here is my first pick I dislike. I am not a Shorts fan. Overrated small school guy (as weird as that sounds), who gets a lot of hype due to coming from the same school as Garcon. I suggest South Alabama WR Courtney Smith, who will be appearing in this slot in my pre combine mock draft debuting shortly.

5) You have sold me on this guy, sign him up.

6) Meh. 6th round depth guy, but will he make the roster? I have doubts here.

7) Late round powerback to fill a niche. I'm in.

Again, nice work!

Lucky
02-21-2011, 09:35 PM
on the serious side your probably right- http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-texans/2011/2/15/1995540/dunta-robinson-is-not-giving-the-texans-a-third-round-pick

From the link:

For example, consider a team that loses one qualifying player whose value falls in the third round and another qualifying player whose value falls in the sixth round but signs a qualifying player whose value falls in the third round. That team would receive a sixth-round comp pick because the signed player would cancel out the loss of the higher-valued playerThat's true, but that's not the reason the Texans aren't getting a 3rd round pick for Dunta.

Look, I've pointed you to the links that explained the compensatory picks in excruciating detail, but you either haven't read them or you're just not believing it. Which is fine. But, you and a lot of other dreamy Texan fans are headed for a disappointment when the picks are announced.

keyser
02-21-2011, 10:22 PM
That's true, but that's not the reason the Texans aren't getting a 3rd round pick for Dunta.

Look, I've pointed you to the links that explained the compensatory picks in excruciating detail, but you either haven't read them or you're just not believing it. Which is fine. But, you and a lot of other dreamy Texan fans are headed for a disappointment when the picks are announced.

To follow up again, one thread where we discussed this was: HERE (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79118). It seems the best guess was that we should get a 7th round pick for Dunta.

steelbtexan
02-21-2011, 10:54 PM
To follow up again, one thread where we discussed this was: HERE (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79118). It seems the best guess was that we should get a 7th round pick for Dunta.

If all they get for Dunta is a 7th rd pick. They got screwed.

Typical Texans

It will be interesting to see if you or LZ have this right.

I have no idea how the comp picks work.

If I had to bet I'd take Luck every day. LOL

thunderkyss
02-22-2011, 11:45 AM
New England trades with Houston

You know we're getting the shaft if we're trading with New England.

:kitten:

badboy
02-22-2011, 11:51 AM
You know we're getting the shaft if we're trading with New England.

:kitten:Pats could use a defensive end and WR so if we can move down and get anything we probably come out ahead.

beerlover
02-22-2011, 12:22 PM
You know we're getting the shaft if we're trading with New England.

:kitten:

not sure this is what you mean? Belichick comes out ahead in points on this trade. Getting 11th is worth 1250. While Smith (who traded with Bill last draft to move back up for Tate) receives in return 17th(950) +74TH(220) +124TH(48) = 1218. Or team closer to a Championship is enabled to draft the missing cog for their DL since Richard Seymour left?

beerlover
02-22-2011, 01:04 PM
Another trade I considered was if Julio Jones slipped past Washington & was there #11 interested team being St. Louis would they offer a sweet package to move up for him? The difference between 11-14 is 150 points, meaning Texans could get their 3rd for giving up three slots & 5th rd. pick (#135) difference between 11th/14th 150 points (Rams 3rd (78th) 200 points while sending back Texans 5th (135) 38.5 points).

This trade would allow Texans to keep all of my picks (less supplemental) through 4th rd. leaving only 5th rd. pick out (Willi Smith, OT).

thunderkyss
02-23-2011, 05:44 PM
not sure this is what you mean? Belichick comes out ahead in points on this trade. Getting 11th is worth 1250. While Smith (who traded with Bill last draft to move back up for Tate) receives in return 17th(950) +74TH(220) +124TH(48) = 1218. Or team closer to a Championship is enabled to draft the missing cog for their DL since Richard Seymour left?

Just perception. The Pats (Belichick) are considered the "Darryl Morey" of the NFL. They (he) "always" seem to come out with the better end of the deal.

Who knew, that Tate wouldn't play a down. I don't know what the Pats got with their pick, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up as a pair of pro-bowlers.

Anyway, it was just a little tongue in cheek comment.

76Texan
02-28-2011, 06:18 AM
BL, I had started to zoom in on McClain some.
He would be value in the 4th round, IMO.

Bartholomew showed well at the combine; you think he will last into the 7th???

beerlover
02-28-2011, 11:57 AM
BL, I had started to zoom in on McClain some.
He would be value in the 4th round, IMO.

Bartholomew showed well at the combine; you think he will last into the 7th???

pretty close draft grade to Mitchell from last year who I had mocked to Texans in the 5th but of course taken in 3rd. so split in middle, with some feedback from rmartin65

Bart I had in 6th, now probably a 5th.

beerlover
02-28-2011, 10:44 PM
1st. (17th pick of rd.) - Akeem Ayers, OLB, UCLA, 6024 254 4.70

After breaking down film of all the prospects to project for the Texans @ OLB Akeem has the most complete skill set. He will not be a liability in pass coverage, he can set the corner, solid in run support & shows excellent athletic skills to rush the passer. Not explosive but always charging with excellent pursuit & ball skills in turnover department. A very safe pick, the second best fit for Texans need @ OLB after Von Miller.

2nd. (Texans #10 pick of rd.) Muhammed Wilkerson, DE/DT, Temple, 6041 315 4.96

If unable to trade down the Texans just may select JJ Watt with 11th overall pick? Too many question marks for me going into next season converting 4-3 DT/DE's to 3-4 DE's. The Texans need to reinforce the edge with nasty, size strength starting quality player & Wilkerson is shooting up draft boards as a viable 5 technique DE prospect.

3rd. (Texans #9 pick of rd.) - Shareece Wright, CB, USC, 5011 185 4.50

I'm looking for close to finished product with length, good skills like back peddle, ability to locate the ball in the air & contest WR for possession. He is one of the CB's I'm paying extra close attention to @ the upcoming combine if he runs under a 4.40 he'll be gone but if expected runs in the 4.45-4.5 range he should still be on the board here.

3rd. (Texans via New England via Minnesota #10 of rd.) - Dontay Moch, OLB, Nevada, 6013 248 4.44

Pass rushing specialist, developmental OLB. Could actually test out with best speed in class @ combine something Texans covet. I know this is another OLB prospect pretty high, but while Ayers is a everydown OLB Moch's value is in pass rushing situations when Wade wants to bring the house. Plus he was exposed to him coaching the East West Shrine game.

3rd. (supplemental pick awarded compensation for Dunta Robinson) Deunta Williams, S, North Carolina, 6020 215 4.55

Coming into the draft off a fractured right fibula last game of season, if not for his injury he would be projected much higher (2nd rd. grade). I was really looking for a center fielder type with ball skills, after reviewing film he stood out in this class in that department. The good news is the Texans will not be in a rush to start him too soon & let him develop, strengthen & feel comfortable putting him in position to succeed.


4th (Texans #8th pick of rd.) Terrell McClain, DT/NT, South Florida, 6030 310 5.14 Impressed @ Shriner game (Wade Phillips coaching) late invite to Senior Bowl. Stock rising because of compact & stout lower torso would be nice DT to develop @ nose, very similar to Ratliff who was drafted by Cowboys in latter rounds but proved to be a steal because of work ethic & fit into Wade system.

[SIZE="4"][B]4th (Texans via New England #28th of rd.) Cecil Shorts III, WR, Mount Union, 6000 200

Represents great small school prospect value http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfn3oxSbJ6A Jacoby may leave via FA & even if not would upgrade depth chart behind Walter.

5th (Texans #7th pick of rd.) Willie Smith, OT, ECU, 6060 290 5.30

Another uncertainty heading into FA is status of Rashad Butler? Texans have done a nice job developing him question is will it be for another team willing to pay him starting OT money? Hence addressing roster with similar talent to groom once again is Smith who is excellent in run blocking, having helped pave lanes for Chris Johnson while @ ECU. All-Conference USA First Team.

6th (Texans #13th pick of rd.) Ryan Bartholomew, C, Syracuse, 6020 298 497

Always a good idea to bolster the trenches. I was expecting more from Antoine Caldwell & less of Chris Myers but actually the reverse has happened. These late rd. linemen need time to groom & develop so by the time he is ready, Myers could be on his downside or needed for depth purposes. Shows leadership required for position, hard worker solid base able to hold the point.

7th (Texans #12th pick of rd.) Allen Bradford, RB, USC, 6000 235 4.55

Big, powerful back, proficient in pass pro. Adds depth (PS) replacing Ward who is a FA similar size 5011 228. low cost developmental, could get call up with injury's or needed depth on special teams & goal line carries to rotate with Foster/Tate. 110 carries his senior year for 794 yds. 5 TD's with a 7.2 yards per carry average. Decisive downhill runner who fits ZBS -

Updated players with combine numbers.

Trap_Star
02-28-2011, 11:23 PM
not really a fan of ayers, if we trade down i rather take a chance on kerrigan.

wilkerson will go in the first round. book it. probably in the top 20 if he does well in his pro-day.

moch probably worked his way into the top 50.

beerlover
03-01-2011, 08:17 AM
not really a fan of ayers, if we trade down i rather take a chance on kerrigan.

wilkerson will go in the first round. book it. probably in the top 20 if he does well in his pro-day.

moch probably worked his way into the top 50.

Ayers fits exactly what Texans tend to draft. High character, productive, low profile, position of need & from a football skill set the most rounded game. nothing sexy or engaging, not a fan favorite, not a local kid either but someone who is very coachable already with a Texan players make-up in player evaluation on Texans board the total package.

I like Kerrigan too. He is someone to take a serious look @ in this trade down scenero. He will be a far better edge rusher & fills the role more of a Clay Matthews type of OLB.

Wilkerson is impressive but has an outside chance to still be on the board because of depth in the draft at his position (5 technique end). the idea was to hit with OLB without over valuing need with 11th pick, which this demonstrates by moving down 6 slots with two quality OLB prospects in Ayers & Kerrigan. Otherwise Texans could be looking at drafting a 5 technique end #11 because either Watt or Jordon would be too good to pass on, hence New England moves up for one of them. Then the Texans could still address position with Wilkerson in 2nd, improving value with both picks.

Moch is a wildcard, he really blew up this weekend at the combine, which doesn't come as that big of surprise but does hurt his chances of still being on the board in 3rd (for anyone projecting him in the 4th forget about it). Just realize this, if the Texans have an extra pick (via trade down) it puts them in a better position to move draft day, in this case up into the second round if this is a guy they covet. If they went Kerrigan with 1st I doubt they would be so inclined but Ayers that's another story, which is why I liked this combination better because it hits more holes & the players fit together.

good stuff :toropalm:

bah007
03-01-2011, 10:52 AM
I think Moch goes in the second round after his combine. I also think that whoever takes him in the second round is wasting a pick on a bust.

Lucky
03-01-2011, 07:15 PM
I think Moch goes in the second round after his combine. I also think that whoever takes him in the second round is wasting a pick on a bust.
I'm not suggesting that Moch will be a superstar. There's legitimate questions regarding his size and making the transition to NFL LB. But, the guy was a productive player for 4 seasons. He's not just a workout warrior. I don't see how you could project him to bust.

beerlover
03-01-2011, 11:08 PM
I think Moch goes in the second round after his combine. I also think that whoever takes him in the second round is wasting a pick on a bust.

Make him earn his opportunities. First & foremost should start as situational pass rusher. As he develops & gains confidence he can earn more reps. He can also start out as a gunner on special teams, with his package of speed & toughness he could get to those returners quick. I will still maintain early 3rd rd. grade where Texans select so kinda see what bah007 point of view at least in terms of valueation.

bah007
03-02-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm not suggesting that Moch will be a superstar. There's legitimate questions regarding his size and making the transition to NFL LB. But, the guy was a productive player for 4 seasons. He's not just a workout warrior. I don't see how you could project him to bust.

He is one of those guys that just out-athleted people in college. Look at all his highlights. His only pass rush move is to run as far outside the tackle as possible and try to get around him.

That works in the WAC, but not in the NFL. Not every productive player in college makes it in the NFL.

If he is sitting around in the 4th I would be okay with risking it. He does have legitimate potential. But he needs to add strength, he is changing positions, he can't defend the run, and once a linemen touches him he is done. He needs to add more moves to his arsenal. At this point I wouldn't even say he has a pass rush move, unless you just count his speed. Every single time a OT lays a finger on him he gets locked up. That should not happen to a pro pass rusher.

bah007
03-02-2011, 11:16 AM
Make him earn his opportunities. First & foremost should start as situational pass rusher. As he develops & gains confidence he can earn more reps. He can also start out as a gunner on special teams, with his package of speed & toughness he could get to those returners quick. I will still maintain early 3rd rd. grade where Texans select so kinda see what bah007 point of view at least in terms of valueation.

If we're talking 4th round then I agree with everything you have there.

Any earlier than that and I'm gonna have to pass.

beerlover
03-02-2011, 05:28 PM
If we're talking 4th round then I agree with everything you have there.

Any earlier than that and I'm gonna have to pass.

I'm familar with your work, you have a sharp eye for talent evaluation. The one skill you can't teach is explosive speed, fast twitch muscle movement & Dontay has it in spades. Very likely some team will reach for him in 2nd too because of it. But if I where Rick Smith, would stand pat & wait to see if he falls to one of my third round picks.

thanks for input

Lucky
03-02-2011, 08:40 PM
He is one of those guys that just out-athleted people in college. Look at all his highlights. His only pass rush move is to run as far outside the tackle as possible and try to get around him.
You've also just described Von Miller.

I also disagree with the assessment that Moch can't play the run. Over half of his TFLs were against the run. While he's likely been playing below his combine weight, so have Miller and Justin Houston, and Moch is only an inch shorter than those two and Akeem Ayers.

Again, I'm not suggesting Moch is a first round pick. Or even worthy of the Texans pick @42. Just that labeling the guy a bust before he's even been drafted is unfounded and premature.

beerlover
03-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Isn't a trade down more attractive now after seeing how the prospects shake out as a rule? I must say I'm more than a little disappointed in Akeem Ayers forty, 4.88. Have to wait until now until UCLA pro Days to see how much he can improve those numbers otherwise he slips down my draft board. looked both sluggish and outstanding at the combine. Despite his slow 40, lateral, back peddling, and focus looked great confirming his all around line-backing skills & why I ranked him as my #2 OLB behind Von Miller going into the combine.

One thing this does is it should eliminate him from being the Texans straight up selection @ #11. Which still supports my view of trading down mid teens then considering him as potential Texan prospect.

Wilkerson draft stock seems to be on the rise, doubtful now he'll be around in 2nd for Wade Phillips to bolster his front three. I viewed him as a poor mans Nick Farley, similar measureables, disruptive but not near as explosive, still I was projecting him inside to be in the NG rotation as well depth @ DE. His value is his versatility to play any of the DL positions in Wade Phillips scheme.

Wright broke his projected 4.5 forty with a 4.46, showed decent strength 16 reps, good vertical 34.5 & explosion 9'5" LJ. He did not do any of the on field drills, which kinda keeps him off the radar. Here is a player with measureables but will be graded off tape during USC career.

Of course Moch stole the show for OLB group & asserts himself as one of the more intriguing OLB prospects for 3-4 teams needing pass rushers. If gone I would have no issue with Texans pulling trigger onDeunta Williams, S, North Carolina, 6020 215 4.55 or looking very close at Rutgers Safety Joe Lefeged.

Cecil Shorts III, WR remains off most radars as small school prospect Mount Union. In drills he displayed plus explosion in & out of breaks, strong trunk which supports his return ability & toughness to handle contact next level.

Would prefer to address OT earlier if value presents itself. Smith is solid technician but kinda slow & lumbering in drills. Tape shows excellent ability to recover/position to stack & keep DE from shedding, but only in limited windows. 5th round maybe a bit of reach for Texans given need is not a priority, so if they look at him they would probably wait until the 6th or 7th rd.

This might workout anyway, then Texans could move Bartholomew up to a 5th rd. pick & get a true center with base, strength & explosion to hold the point against big 3-4 NT's. For some reason, maybe because he has no neck, he kinda reminds me of Vonta Leech.

Bradford I'll have to change simply because Texans resigned Ward. That gives the Texans, dare I say it? depth @ the RB position.

Honoring Earl 34
03-04-2011, 02:32 PM
Isn't a trade down more attractive now after seeing how the prospects shake out as a rule? I must say I'm more than a little disappointed in Akeem Ayers forty, 4.88. Have to wait until now until UCLA pro Days to see how much he can improve those numbers otherwise he slips down my draft board. looked both sluggish and outstanding at the combine. Despite his slow 40, lateral, back peddling, and focus looked great confirming his all around line-backing skills & why I ranked him as my #2 OLB behind Von Miller going into the combine.

One thing this does is it should eliminate him from being the Texans straight up selection @ #11. Which still supports my view of trading down mid teens then considering him as potential Texan prospect.

Wilkerson draft stock seems to be on the rise, doubtful now he'll be around in 2nd for Wade Phillips to bolster his front three. I viewed him as a poor mans Nick Farley, similar measureables, disruptive but not near as explosive, still I was projecting him inside to be in the NG rotation as well depth @ DE. His value is his versatility to play any of the DL positions in Wade Phillips scheme.

Wright broke his projected 4.5 forty with a 4.46, showed decent strength 16 reps, good vertical 34.5 & explosion 9'5" LJ. He did not do any of the on field drills, which kinda keeps him off the radar. Here is a player with measureables but will be graded off tape during USC career.

Of course Moch stole the show for OLB group & asserts himself as one of the more intriguing OLB prospects for 3-4 teams needing pass rushers. If gone I would have no issue with Texans pulling trigger onDeunta Williams, S, North Carolina, 6020 215 4.55 or looking very close at Rutgers Safety Joe Lefeged.

Cecil Shorts III, WR remains off most radars as small school prospect Mount Union. In drills he displayed plus explosion in & out of breaks, strong trunk which supports his return ability & toughness to handle contact next level.

Would prefer to address OT earlier if value presents itself. Smith is solid technician but kinda slow & lumbering in drills. Tape shows excellent ability to recover/position to stack & keep DE from shedding, but only in limited windows. 5th round maybe a bit of reach for Texans given need is not a priority, so if they look at him they would probably wait until the 6th or 7th rd.

This might workout anyway, then Texans could move Bartholomew up to a 5th rd. pick & get a true center with base, strength & explosion to hold the point against big 3-4 NT's. For some reason, maybe because he has no neck, he kinda reminds me of Vonta Leech.

Bradford I'll have to change simply because Texans resigned Ward. That gives the Texans, dare I say it? depth @ the RB position.

Ayers 4.88 and Black's S Florida 4.72 is alarming .

beerlover
03-04-2011, 07:57 PM
I was just surfing around draft websites & I found this one http://www.gbnreport.com/2011projection.html

they too had a trade down scenero with New England. 17th for 11th plus a 2nd #60th (1250=1250). They trade up for Jordan we trade down for Ayers. hmm With the 2nd pick via New England we get DeAndre McDaniel, FS Clemson. This works for me too & helps Texans get the most bang for buck. GBN mocked Texas CB Curtis Brown with Texans own 2nd so its possible those three would both become starters for Wade Phillips sooner than later.

OrdinaryAvgGuy
03-05-2011, 08:42 PM
I was just surfing around draft websites & I found this one http://www.gbnreport.com/2011projection.html

they too had a trade down scenero with New England. 17th for 11th plus a 2nd #60th (1250=1250). They trade up for Jordan we trade down for Ayers. hmm With the 2nd pick via New England we get DeAndre McDaniel, FS Clemson. This works for me too & helps Texans get the most bang for buck. GBN mocked Texas CB Curtis Brown with Texans own 2nd so its possible those three would both become starters for Wade Phillips sooner than later.

In that scenario, I would rather see a trade down with New England, then another with Tampa Bay.

We could then use #20 on Ryan Kerrigan, who projects at OLB, then either use the extra 2nd round pick on another linebacker (Brooks Reed?), or move up to the beginning of the 2nd (with either #42 and #51 or #41 and #60) and take either Cameron Heyward, DE (a great value in the 2nd) or Stephen Paea, DT.