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View Full Version : A Big Standing O to Dom Capers


srrono
02-07-2011, 12:52 PM
Dom Capers former head coach of the Houston Texans won a SuperBowl on Sunday and I would like to say Congratulations to Dom. This brings us familar to territory Having hired Wade Phillips who is Extremely similar to Dom Capers being respected through out the league as a DC but never fulfilling his potential as a HC. With the blue print GB has set can the Texans copy it and make a run of thier own to the promise land of the Playoffs and more?

Mike McCarthy HC former OC
Gary Kubiak

Dom Capers DC with HC exp
Wade Phillips

GB 34 Def
Hou 34 Def

Gb top 10 QB
Hou former top 10 QB

GB strong LB core
Hou strong LB core

The differences be between GB AND HOU would be a long list but lets list the similarities

DX-TEX
02-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Green Bay has a combined 11 world championships.

Texans havent even strongly competed for a division crown.

Done.:whip:

Norg
02-07-2011, 01:16 PM
thats what ive been thinking seeing GB win i thought IS HOU really that far off from getting to there level

Yes last time we played greenbay we beat them in a tough game

yes idk what anyone says PLaying in the AFC is much harder then playing in the NFC

But I think Hou already has all the peices anything new we get will just be some Xtra stuff at this point

THe only thing that worries me is our New D i think it might take 2 years to get it All there and US neglecting our O for 3 years now i think the Level of play might drop off (knocks on wood)

if there is only half a season this year tho i think it might help us

Ole Miss Texan
02-07-2011, 01:43 PM
Green Bay has a combined 11 world championships.

Texans havent even strongly competed for a division crown.

Done.:whip:

That has little to no relevance to this discussion.

Mark Murphy - President and CEO joined team in 2007/08. Had no championship experience outside of yesterdary.
Mike McCarthy - Head Coach joined team in 2006. Had no HC championship experience outside of yesterday.
Ted Thompson - General Manager joined team in 2005. Had no GM championship experience outside of yesterday.

Surely you're not suggesting this current staff was responsible for all those Championships, the last of which was earned in Jan. 1998.

TexansFanatic
02-07-2011, 02:19 PM
All I could think, watching Dom's defense, was: Why couldn't we have gotten Dom back in Houston instead of Wade?

DX-TEX
02-07-2011, 02:20 PM
That has little to no relevance to this discussion.

Mark Murphy - President and CEO joined team in 2007/08. Had no championship experience outside of yesterdary.
Mike McCarthy - Head Coach joined team in 2006. Had no HC championship experience outside of yesterday.
Ted Thompson - General Manager joined team in 2005. Had no GM championship experience outside of yesterday.

Surely you're not suggesting this current staff was responsible for all those Championships, the last of which was earned in Jan. 1998.

A history of winning vs. a short history of mediocrity. Before we start comparing ourselves to any other franchise lets take a first step. Winning a division title would be a nice start.

Not this " well damn look at all this potential:.:vincepalm:

Double Barrel
02-07-2011, 02:30 PM
A history of winning vs. a short history of mediocrity.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks for saving me the typing.

Houston fans seem to lack comprehension of what championship tradition does for a franchise, and most likely because Houston football teams have never experienced it.

infantrycak
02-07-2011, 02:34 PM
A history of winning vs. a short history of mediocrity. Before we start comparing ourselves to any other franchise lets take a first step. Winning a division title would be a nice start.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks for saving me the typing.

Houston fans seem to lack comprehension of what championship tradition does for a franchise, and most likely because Houston football teams have never experienced it.

Hmmm, then maybe Houston fans need to be a little easier on Cowboys fans and refrain from all the "who cares if you won the SB almost twenty years ago" comments. Apparently that isn't Cowboy fan arrogance and actually reflects a current franchise structural superiority even if the records were the same last year.

Dread-Head
02-07-2011, 02:39 PM
VUGG EM! I won't give him props unless he packages up that ring he's going to get and GIVES it to Andre Johnson.

DX-TEX
02-07-2011, 02:42 PM
Hmmm, then maybe Houston fans need to be a little easier on Cowboys fans and refrain from all the "who cares if you won the SB almost twenty years ago" comments. Apparently that isn't Cowboy fan arrogance and actually reflects a current franchise structural superiority even if the records were the same last year.

I never said that. I have always stated that 98% of the Cowboys fanbase are just classless *********s and that was their problem as a franchise. Packers and Steeler fans, for example, carry themselves with a certain level of class.

Also why on earth would I give Capers a standing O? Yay the guy is a good DC, as a HC he is worse than Kubiak, which says a ton. Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes and stays a DC. Some guys are bjust not meant to be head coaches in the NFL. We have two of them currently.

EDIT: the censors on this board are borderline ridiculous. IMO of course.

stingray
02-07-2011, 03:01 PM
I never said that. I have always stated that 98% of the Cowboys fanbase are just classless *********s and that was their problem as a franchise. Packers and Steeler fans, for example, carry themselves with a certain level of class.

Also why on earth would I give Capers a standing O? Yay the guy is a good DC, as a HC he is worse than Kubiak, which says a ton. Hopefully he has learned from his mistakes and stays a DC. Some guys are bjust not meant to be head coaches in the NFL. We have two of them currently.

EDIT: the censors on this board are borderline ridiculous. IMO of course.

Man, I wish I could say that but I live in the valley and 90% of fans are cowboy fans but I work with two of the most annoying Steelers fans on the face of the earth. It was good coming to work today.

HoustonFrog
02-07-2011, 03:13 PM
That has little to no relevance to this discussion.

Mark Murphy - President and CEO joined team in 2007/08. Had no championship experience outside of yesterdary.
Mike McCarthy - Head Coach joined team in 2006. Had no HC championship experience outside of yesterday.
Ted Thompson - General Manager joined team in 2005. Had no GM championship experience outside of yesterday.

Surely you're not suggesting this current staff was responsible for all those Championships, the last of which was earned in Jan. 1998.

These similarities make the Texans brass look worse considering Thompson is considered a top GM and McCarthy was hired the same time as Kubes. Maybe they actually found the right track. Especially since they did it with a year of horrendous injuries for the season and big game. No excuses there

GP
02-07-2011, 03:20 PM
These similarities make the Texans brass look worse considering Thompson is considered a top GM and McCarthy was hired the same time as Kubes. Maybe they actually found the right track. Especially since they did it with a year of horrendous injuries for the season and big game. No excuses there

IIRC, they had maybe the 2nd highest injuries this year?

Second-youngest team in the NFL.

Major defensive players went out during the SB game. A major WR, too.

An unknown at RB.

Could it have been the coaching? Could it have been superior coaching?

Double Barrel
02-07-2011, 03:46 PM
Hmmm, then maybe Houston fans need to be a little easier on Cowboys fans and refrain from all the "who cares if you won the SB almost twenty years ago" comments. Apparently that isn't Cowboy fan arrogance and actually reflects a current franchise structural superiority even if the records were the same last year.

yep. But, you know me. I'm far from a Cowboys fan but I give the franchise the props it deserves as a fan of the NFL.

If most Houston fans were honest about it, the hate comes from jealousy and envy. We were raised in it by our parents in many cases, especially because the Oilers could never get to the big game.

Ole Miss Texan
02-07-2011, 04:00 PM
A history of winning vs. a short history of mediocrity. Before we start comparing ourselves to any other franchise lets take a first step. Winning a division title would be a nice start.

Not this " well damn look at all this potential:.:vincepalm:

I'm not discounting the Packers as a franchise and what they've accomplished during their 90+ year history. I'm also well aware of the Texans mediocrity (if you want to give them that much credit) during our limited existence since 2002.

The point of the original post was not comparing the two franchises as whole. It was stating and comparing the similarities of our CURRENT situation.

Mike McCarthy / Gary Kubiak - Both entered their respective clubs as 1st time Head Coaches the same year. Both were previous Offensive Coordinators.

Dom Capers / Wade Phillips - Both have Head Coaching experience and both have been fired as Head Coaches. Both are respected Defensive minds in the NFL and very well thought of as Defensive Coordinators.

Defense - Both teams previously ran 4-3 base defenses before the new (above named) DC's transitioned them into a 3-4 base. Packers witnessed an immediate turnaround on the D after the switch.

No one is saying "we're just as good as the Packers" or "we've had just as much succes as them". Far from it. Are the Packers a better team? No sh*t they are. Have they had more success in their history? No sh*t they have.

But there are some similarities between the two teams RIGHT NOW. Let's just hope we can find the same success that the Packers did. Let's hope that Wade Phillips turns out to be that same "failed HC" that comes back as a DC and brings success to his team. The Texans are at that point where we can make that turn and get over the edge. It's still wait and see, we're still waiting for that. That's the whole point. Is this the turnaround or isn't it? Is Wade that piece that can turn this Defense into a Top 5 unit like Capers did? We've got to wait and see. I hate we havn't gotten there just as much as the next guy... but at least I can see some of the similarities. That's all it is.

Speedy
02-07-2011, 04:13 PM
Green Bay has a combined 11 world championships.

Texans havent even strongly competed for a division crown.

Done.:whip:

Green Bay has 13 championships.

Double Barrel
02-07-2011, 04:37 PM
It was stating and comparing the similarities of our CURRENT situation.

The problem with comparisons, though, is that there are many more facets than just head coach and coordinators. You've got GM, scouts, trainers, and the rest of the front office that has to be the best qualified at their positions that a team can hire.

According to many reports, McNair is very loyal to his staff and will not fire people to hire someone else that is more credentialed and better qualified. Hence, 9 years of mediocre results.

thunderkyss
02-07-2011, 05:33 PM
All I could think, watching Dom's defense, was: Why couldn't we have gotten Dom back in Houston instead of Wade?

After watching Dom in Greenbay the last couple of years, the thing I wondered was why didn't he focus on the Defense. If he wanted Carr to look good, a top five defense would have gone a long way.

Ole Miss Texan
02-07-2011, 05:42 PM
The problem with comparisons, though, is that there are many more facets than just head coach and coordinators. You've got GM, scouts, trainers, and the rest of the front office that has to be the best qualified at their positions that a team can hire.

According to many reports, McNair is very loyal to his staff and will not fire people to hire someone else that is more credentialed and better qualified. Hence, 9 years of mediocre results.

You're absolutely right and I agree totally. I don't think you're EVER going to find two instances that are exactly the same to compare each other too. There are always going to be variables. That's why I keyed on the word similarities. This isn't a "Compare the Packers and Texans" thread. It's pointing out some SPECIFIC similarities between the two for us to discuss. Namely: 1st time head coaches, Failed HC's that come in as DC's that are very respected in that field from across the league, two pretty damn good QBs, etc etc.

Thompson and Smith are actually kind of similar as GM comparisons in my opinion. Both are 1st time GM's. Not the same, not exact... similar.

Packers have obviously dealth with their change, additions, subtractions over the last 6 years than the Texans have. Kudos Packers. Win Packers. Fail Texans. But the similarities are still there.

If we have to find two exact situations that have everything in common we can never have a discussion on this board. We can't compare the Patriots and Colts, we can't compare Peyton and Brady, we can't compare draft prospects to current pros. The list goes on.

I can't believe some people are having such a hard time understanding what the OP is just trying to state.

Double Barrel
02-07-2011, 06:12 PM
You're absolutely right and I agree totally. I don't think you're EVER going to find two instances that are exactly the same to compare each other too. There are always going to be variables. That's why I keyed on the word similarities. This isn't a "Compare the Packers and Texans" thread. It's pointing out some SPECIFIC similarities between the two for us to discuss. Namely: 1st time head coaches, Failed HC's that come in as DC's that are very respected in that field from across the league, two pretty damn good QBs, etc etc.

Thompson and Smith are actually kind of similar as GM comparisons in my opinion. Both are 1st time GM's. Not the same, not exact... similar.

Packers have obviously dealth with their change, additions, subtractions over the last 6 years than the Texans have. Kudos Packers. Win Packers. Fail Texans. But the similarities are still there.

If we have to find two exact situations that have everything in common we can never have a discussion on this board. We can't compare the Patriots and Colts, we can't compare Peyton and Brady, we can't compare draft prospects to current pros. The list goes on.

I can't believe some people are having such a hard time understanding what the OP is just trying to state.

Good points, man, and I agree. There are certainly similarities between the teams, and based upon your analysis, I could almost get excited for the Texans. It's those front office personnel (and lack of faith in Kubiak) that prevent me from truly being excited, though, simply because I do think that they are also part of the fundamental problems with our beloved team.

But solid discussion, man. Props. :cowboy1:

Ole Miss Texan
02-07-2011, 06:31 PM
Good points, man, and I agree. There are certainly similarities between the teams, and based upon your analysis, I could almost get excited for the Texans. It's those front office personnel (and lack of faith in Kubiak) that prevent me from truly being excited, though, simply because I do think that they are also part of the fundamental problems with our beloved team.

But solid discussion, man. Props. :cowboy1:

I enjoy these discussions as well. Like you mentioned, there's room for us to get excited about it. But how many years in a row have we said that! I havn't lost the faith like I should...err I mean, like most have. It's just every year brings a new wrinkle for me to be excited about or excuses for us to make for the previous season. When will all this finally click??? Slaton was awesome, sucked the next year but our passing game was phenomenal. Foster just played like Earl Campbell and Barry Sanders had a love child (gross) but will that continue? Kris Brown lost us games and we replaced him with Rackers, who did great... but then our defense which came on strong in 09 fell apart!! It's like we can't have all facets of our team playing well together at the same time. So frustrating.

Another thing you hit on in your earlier post, you mentioned some of the differences between our two teams. Player evaluation, scouts, trainers and the likes. I really really hope Wade can make some changes to this front. Maybe the way we scout players, study how we can use them, and make the best decisions. Finding way to make the best players fit... not just taking the best players that fit what we want to do. I think we miss out on a lot of talent that way.

Double Barrel
02-07-2011, 06:43 PM
Great points, OMT. While initially a bit skeptical about Wade, I think he could be the thing that really makes a positive impact, both in terms of his defensive acumen and the fire he could light under Kubiak as a head coach.

Kubiak the OC has done a good job. There is always room for improvement, but I can't really be too critical of the offense, all things considered. So hopefully a light comes on in his head for year 6 of Kubiak the HC with Wade right there to take care of one side of the ball and give him some insight and knowledge from decades of being an assistant and head coach for various teams.

TexansFanatic
02-07-2011, 09:32 PM
After watching Dom in Greenbay the last couple of years, the thing I wondered was why didn't he focus on the Defense. If he wanted Carr to look good, a top five defense would have gone a long way.

Well, I think the problem was with the mindset from the very beginning to build the team around a rookie quarterback who turned out to be better suited as a journeyman backup.

The Texans actually had a pretty damned good defense under Dom. The problem was an offense that made things easy for opposing defenses.

Recall this 2002 victory against the Steelers LINK (http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=221208023) which hinged on three defensive touchdowns (overcoming an excruciating performance from the offense which had the QB being sacked more (4 times) than completed passed (3).

I'm not absolving Dom from blame as HC, just saying I wish we had him back as DC.

painekiller
02-07-2011, 10:22 PM
Dom Capers former head coach of the Houston Texans won a SuperBowl on Sunday and I would like to say Congratulations to Dom. This brings us familar to territory Having hired Wade Phillips who is Extremely similar to Dom Capers being respected through out the league as a DC but never fulfilling his potential as a HC. With the blue print GB has set can the Texans copy it and make a run of thier own to the promise land of the Playoffs and more?

Mike McCarthy HC former OC
Gary Kubiak

Dom Capers DC with HC exp
Wade Phillips

GB 34 Def
Hou 34 Def

Gb top 10 QB
Hou former top 10 QB

GB strong LB core
Hou strong LB core

The differences be between GB AND HOU would be a long list but lets list the similarities

I want to also add my congratulations to Dom, a very nice man wh o has paid his dues. It was his time.

As for srrono claim of a strong LB core, I disagree 100%, our LB core was one of the issues we have had, we got the benefit a year ago of some stimulants, this year not so much help. Cushing was a not a solid LB last season and he is unsuited for a 34 defense.

We only have one guy really suited to be a 34 LB and that is Barwin.

This should be a busy off season for the scouts to gather us some LBs.

infantrycak
02-08-2011, 12:59 PM
We only have one guy really suited to be a 34 LB and that is Barwin.

How are Ryans and Cushing not suited to be 3-4 LB's?

painekiller
02-08-2011, 01:04 PM
How are Ryans and Cushing not suited to be 3-4 LB's?

Cushing is the perfect 4-3 Sam, he is not an edge rush type that is prototypical 34 OLB. He also has showed zero inside LB ability.

Ryans is a question mark with the injury, the Achilles injury is tough to recover from especially for a guy who plays in space. Ryans should be solid in a 3-4 but not as good as he has been in the 43.

Of course these are just my opinions.

spurstexanstros
02-08-2011, 01:11 PM
No I will not applaud Mr Run run pass , punt. The days of first and fall was very painful as a Texans fans, and apparently the people have forgotten the 30+ blowouts the Texans suffered regularly under Capers. .

So applaud him I think not 2-14 is all I have to say

Wolf6151
02-08-2011, 05:57 PM
Since we're comparing the Texans to the Packers:

1. Who's our dominating NT like B.J. Raji?
2. Who's our dominating OLB like Clay Matthews?
3. Who's our dominating CB like Charles Woodson?
4. Who's our really good FS like Nick Collins?
5. Who's our really good DE like Ryan Pickett?
6. Who's our really good #2 CB like Tramon Williams?
Also Matt Schaub ain't near the QB that Aaron Rodgers is. Face it, we don't compare to the Super Bowl Champs.

Nawzer
02-08-2011, 07:49 PM
Since we're comparing the Texans to the Packers:

1. Who's our dominating NT like B.J. Raji?
2. Who's our dominating OLB like Clay Matthews?
3. Who's our dominating CB like Charles Woodson?
4. Who's our really good FS like Nick Collins?
5. Who's our really good DE like Ryan Pickett?
6. Who's our really good #2 CB like Tramon Williams?
Also Matt Schaub ain't near the QB that Aaron Rodgers is. Face it, we don't compare to the Super Bowl Champs.

Good points, but we have cheerleaders and they don't.

srrono
02-08-2011, 09:53 PM
The point of the thread was to find some positive similarities between Greeen Bay and Houston. We all can point out the negatives very easily and that would be a long list. The challange is finding positives.

Texecutioner
02-09-2011, 01:15 AM
The point of the thread was to find some positive similarities between Greeen Bay and Houston. We all can point out the negatives very easily and that would be a long list. The challange is finding positives.

Well the biggest differentiation is the fact that Kubes runs this organization for the most part as far as players brought in, players drafted, and the decisions on game day compared to McCarthy and Thompson. GB has had good guys in place to build a strong organization and they've got a pretty good HC, and we've got Smithiak who should have never had a HC position or a GM position. We've got two jokes as our GM and our HC that aren't any better than Casserly and Capers. We just have two different guys in place than what we had before that aren't capable of taking an organization anywhere in leadership roles.

texansdrummer
02-09-2011, 01:49 AM
My thoughts exactly. Thanks for saving me the typing.

Houston fans seem to lack comprehension of what championship tradition does for a franchise, and most likely because Houston football teams have never experienced it.

Not gonna take you to task regarding this.....tradition can be a bonus, for sure. On the other hand, Tampa, New England, and the Colts seemed to have overcome some pretty lean periods.

When the "tradition" is such that hardly (if any) current employees or players had anything to do with it....it is arguably irrelevant. The Packers beat the Chiefs in SBI....but I really don't think it would have any bearing on things if they would happen to meet in the SB next year.

Double Barrel
02-09-2011, 12:12 PM
Not gonna take you to task regarding this.....tradition can be a bonus, for sure. On the other hand, Tampa, New England, and the Colts seemed to have overcome some pretty lean periods.

When the "tradition" is such that hardly (if any) current employees or players had anything to do with it....it is arguably irrelevant. The Packers beat the Chiefs in SBI....but I really don't think it would have any bearing on things if they would happen to meet in the SB next year.

I'm a fan of the NFL. Probably a bigger fan of pro football than I am of the hometown team. So I've watched and absorbed a lot of NFL history over the years.

And when I hear players consistently and continuously talk about going to a team's training facilities and seeing championship trophies and pictures/awards from past years, and they say how it inspires them to live up to the standards and they want to bring that honor of tradition and glory to their franchise, then it starts to sink in .

So please excuse me if I tend to put more stock into the words of actual pro football players over an anonymous forum member. No offense, but your words contradict everything that I've ever seen and read from players about winning traditions.

Your single examples do not change these facts. There will always be teams that rise above their past, and these teams are setting examples for future generations of players. Saints players now have a championship trophy to inspire them instead of the baggage of a history of losing. But that's why they talked about getting the proverbial "monkey off their backs". The history of losing can hold a team back just as much as a history of winning can inspire them. And that's my point about the Texans.

It's fine if you disagree. But please provide some evidence from actual players. For instance, a quote from a current Steelers or Packers player that says that those multiple Lombardi trophies do nothing for him when he sees them. Good luck finding that quote.

EllisUnit
02-09-2011, 01:16 PM
Green Bay has a combined 11 world championships.

Texans havent even strongly competed for a division crown.

Done.:whip:

Greenbay - Been in the NFL since day 1. Texans were a little late getting in the game in 2002. Hard to compare based on that.