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srrono
02-01-2011, 09:24 AM
Houston Texans: Nnamdi Asomugha is the Missing Link for the Texans Secondary
By
Stephen Kasper

Why Oakland would allow their best player's contract to become void is beyond me.
Maybe the Raiders are going green and found out that Asomugha's blanket coverage is bad for the environment.Whatever the reason, Nnamdi Asomugha is out of Oakland and will be one of the most sought after free agents in recent NFL history.
When I heard Nnamdi Asomugha would be entering free agency this offseason, the first place I could imagine him landing was Houston.

Of course, this entire article is subject to the NFL's ability to come to terms with a new collective bargaining agreement. But for the sake of football, we will assume everything gets sorted out rather quickly and the offseason goes as normal as possible.When free agency does open, there will be about 32 teams interested in Asomugha And for good reason.
Since entering the league in 2003, Asomugha has arguably become one of the best shut-down cornerbacks in the league.The four time Pro-Bowler has also been selected as an All-Pro just as many times. Any team would want Asomugha in their secondary, but not many teams need him quite as badly as the Houston Texans.Sure, Houston had an impressive offense, putting up top 10 league rankings in scoring, passing yards and rushing yards. But the other side of the ball wasn't so pretty.

The Texans finished dead last in passing defense last season, allowing just over 267 yards a game through the air, which translates to nearly 27 points allowed a game, good enough for fourth worst in the NFL. Compared to the Steelers number one ranked defense in the league, who allowed only 14.5 points per game, I would say there is definitely room for improvement on the Texans defense.
Houston has already made one smart move for their defense this offseason by firing defensive coordinator Frank Bush and replacing him with Wade Phillips.
Plenty of talent is already there with DeMeco Ryans, Brian Cushing and Mario Williams, giving the defensive line and linebacker core a solid base to work with.The only thing missing is a secondary.
With safety Bernard Pollard set to become a free agent, the Texans and Wade Phillips have a lot of big decisions to make regarding their pass defense.One decision they should definitely make is to pursue Nnamdi Asomugha as their primary target this offseason.Without a doubt, any team that signs Asomugha will pay a pretty penny, but he will be more than worth it, especially for a struggling Texan's secondary.“Awesome-Wah”, as I like to call him, had one of the best seasons a cornerback can have in 2010, only allowing 10 catches from 27 passes thrown his way and didn't give up a single touchdown all year.Imagine, if the Texans could sign such an amazing force, very little work would need to be done to finish making the Texans team one of the best in the NFL.

Asomugha will look for the big money, just as Darrelle Revis did with the Jets this past season. The only difference is that he will have teams lined up ready to pay him even more than Revis received.Not only would Asomugha be the difference maker for the Houston Texans, he would lift the entire team to a completely new level.Texans GM Rick Smith would be crazy to not make an aggressive pursuit of Asomugha.Imagine a game where you could see Andre Johnson and Arian Foster on offense, then Mario Williams and Nnamdi Asomugha on defense.The possibilities would be endless.
Between Gary Kubiak, Wade Phillips, Rick Smith and Texans owner Bob McNair, this Texans front office staff should be prepared to give Nnamdi Asomugha the key to the city to get him in a Texans uniform next season.Should they actually make it happen, Houston would be an immediate front-runner not only for the AFC South, but possibly the Super Bowl.

link
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/591602-houston-texans-nnamdi-asomugha-is-the-missing-link-for-the-texans-secondary?source=rss_teams_Houston_Texans

HOU-TEX
02-01-2011, 09:39 AM
I'd venture to guess he'd be the missing link in all 32 teams secondaries. Just a hunch.

gtexan02
02-01-2011, 09:56 AM
It would be very un-Texans of us to even sniff this guy
He's expensive, we just got a new db coach, and the lockout is looming

FirstTexansFan
02-01-2011, 10:01 AM
It's the offseason, we're entitled to dream... :)

eriadoc
02-01-2011, 10:48 AM
I tried to read that.


But seprating every sentence by two lines was just way too tedious.


I'll try again later.


Maybe.


Actually, I won't.


Never mind.

Texecutioner
02-01-2011, 10:55 AM
The Texans won't touch this guy. They're not committed enough in becoming a dominant team to where they'll go out and sign a missing piece like this. They've had all types of opportunities over the last few years to fix huge holes when certain players became available, and they've done nothing significant to make that splash or to address those important needs, especially on the defense. They've been anti free agency for years under Smithiak and as long as Smithiak is here they will only build through the draft.

GP
02-01-2011, 11:01 AM
I

didn't

read

that

original

post

because

it

was

awkward

to

read

it

the

way

it

was

structured.

Plus,

we

won't

go

after

Aso,

so

it

is

not

newsworthy

here.

Double Barrel
02-01-2011, 11:50 AM
Many teams will throw big money at Asomugha (I'm not sure if the Texans would be one of them).

So that being said, why would he want to come to the perpetually sucktastic Texans? There is no compelling reason for a player of his caliber to come to Houston if other teams are willing to pay him just as much.

Mr teX
02-01-2011, 12:25 PM
Many teams will throw big money at Asomugha (I'm not sure if the Texans would be one of them).

So that being said, why would he want to come to the perpetually sucktastic Texans? There is no compelling reason for a player of his caliber to come to Houston if other teams are willing to pay him just as much.

This is 1 of the most overlooked aspects of FA. what is the incentive for any top FA to come to houston? People just really don't get it. Its not so much about us going after them, but rather them wanting to come here. if i'm him & i have the chance to go to an immediate contender (colts, chargers, ravens, pats, eagles, etc.) or the Texans, guess where i'm going if the money is close?

Asking the texans to land 1 of these guys is asking for the FO to significantly overpay them..we're talking albert haynesworth overpay & do we really want this team mired in salary cap hell for 2-3 years just for a better shot at going to the playoffs?

rush2112mn
02-01-2011, 12:34 PM
Going
after

him



would




cost





a






lot





of




money


.




.



.

HOU-TEX
02-01-2011, 12:35 PM
Many teams will throw big money at Asomugha (I'm not sure if the Texans would be one of them).

So that being said, why would he want to come to the perpetually sucktastic Texans? There is no compelling reason for a player of his caliber to come to Houston if other teams are willing to pay him just as much.

*ahem* We have a nice facility.

False Start
02-01-2011, 12:44 PM
I read it.


It took awhile though.


There is a better chance of VY ever becoming a good OB, than Asomugha coming to Houston.


I just don't see it happening.


I could be wrong, but I doubt I am.

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2011, 12:59 PM
The Texans won't touch this guy. They're not committed enough in becoming a dominant team to where they'll go out and sign a missing piece like this. They've had all types of opportunities over the last few years to fix huge holes when certain players became available, and they've done nothing significant to make that splash or to address those important needs, especially on the defense. They've been anti free agency for years under Smithiak and as long as Smithiak is here they will only build through the draft.

Many teams will throw big money at Asomugha (I'm not sure if the Texans would be one of them).

So that being said, why would he want to come to the perpetually sucktastic Texans? There is no compelling reason for a player of his caliber to come to Houston if other teams are willing to pay him just as much.

This is 1 of the most overlooked aspects of FA. what is the incentive for any top FA to come to houston? People just really don't get it. Its not so much about us going after them, but rather them wanting to come here. if i'm him & i have the chance to go to an immediate contender (colts, chargers, ravens, pats, eagles, etc.) or the Texans, guess where i'm going if the money is close?

Asking the texans to land 1 of these guys is asking for the FO to significantly overpay them..we're talking albert haynesworth overpay & do we really want this team mired in salary cap hell for 2-3 years just for a better shot at going to the playoffs?

I'm going to have to agree and disagree with you guys. The player choosing the team is often overlooked by fans and it's a HUGE part of the process! Just as drafting a guy late in the draft even if he'd make it to free agency... you draft him he's yours, udfa and he's free to choose a team.

For the Texans though, If I were a CB of "Awesome-wah"s calibre (I love that), Houston would be very enticing. I understand you want to be on a great defense but now you're the #1 CB in the league, you would instantly and hugely upgrade the secondary, you're playing for one of the most respected DC's in the league that knows how to get the best out of his players. Just as important, your teams offense is one of, if not, the best in the league.

Think about Schaub and all the offensive players last season, with everything they did to put us in a position to win just to let the defense give it away. In Houston, if you're a defensive player, you know that you're not going to have to hold teams to 10 points to win the game. Your offense won't let you down and destroy all the hard work you did.

Sure the best bet would be to get paid the most AND go to a team that's already Super Bowl favorites like the Pats, Steelers, etc. But who knows, that happens just as much as a crappy team getting a top guy... maybe less.

As far as the Texans pursuing him? I think he's the exact type of player McNair/Smith would pony up for. They avoid players that are 'over the hill' or on the decline. Awesome-wah is still in his prime playing the best ball of his life. He's a high character person, extremely well respected and a great leader/teammate. The Texans pass on guys that are near the end of their career, on the decline, bad apples, etc. Awesome-wah is THE prototypical free agent we would pursue.

A huge part WILL depend on what the new salary cap/CBA says we can do. That's a given and potential downside.... I don't think it would be a McNair is cheap thing but $'s could play into it but it won't be just because they don't want to pay him a lot.

The other thing, the thing that worries me the most is: EGO. Be that Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak or Wade Phillips. I think EGO was the key factor playing into our secondary this past season. We are smart, we can go young, they will grow, we'll make it work. Yes Aso is GREAT, but we can get others to make it work and reach the playoffs. Ego. That's what they could be thinking.

The bottom line, and I say this very rarely when it comes to us drafting a guy or signing one in free agency: Asomugha is as risk-free as you can get. You know what you're getting and he fits your team to a T. The only other person I have been as sure of is Patrick Willis. Sign him and he will dominate. He will be a pro bowler. He will take your defense to a different level. He won't be a bust, he won't be mediocre. He will be great. Sheesh this is a no brainer: Aso is smart, a good person, high character, a leader, a great teammate, a hard worker, a perennial All Pro, is in his prime, and fills THE biggest weakness on your team. He will bring the veteran leadership needed in the secondary and instantly make your #2,3 and 4 CBs better. He will allow you do to things with the Front 7 that you normally wouldn't be able to (read: that you've NEVER been able to do). He would help your safeties out tremendously. On top of that, I believe we have one of the cheapest secondaries in the league. We're paying those guys nothing... so the $'s spent back there will be far from a concentration on a certain position, other than the fact ASo will be the highest paid CB in league history.

Texecutioner
02-01-2011, 01:01 PM
Asking the texans to land 1 of these guys is asking for the FO to significantly overpay them..we're talking albert haynesworth overpay & do we really want this team mired in salary cap hell for 2-3 years just for a better shot at going to the playoffs?

This is the same excuse I've heard from scary Texans fans on this site every time there is some potential free agent on the market that fills a huge hole here. The typical Haynesworth example pours out as if he's the only free agent that's ever hit the market. The only examples ever used are the ones that get way over paid and don't pan out, but the ones that do that just get their fair market value" for their position and their worth never get mentioned and get ignored. Newsflash folks, if you want to compete you're going to have to spend some money at certain positions and CB may be one of the highest paid positions in the league, but it is for a reason and if you want a guy who can cover and make a real impact you've got to pay him unless you hit the lottery of luck in the draft and get that stud, and after the looking at how poorly our rookie CB Jackson played this season that should be a big lesson in how hard it is to find a true shut down corner and how overrated draft picks are at times.

You guys seem to forget at how much you over pay with draft picks half the time as well and every draft pick is an unproven player. At least with a top free agent guy like Nnamdi, you know that you're getting a proven stud instead of "potential." Nnamdi has not shown to be anything like Haynesworth in the attitude department. Haynesworth looked like a bad signing from a mile away. The Eagles went out and spent nice money on a top flight CB in Asante Samuel and he hasn't been some poor signing that hurt their team. You've got to pay for good corners.

Oh the free agent fear and how it circulates.

Texecutioner
02-01-2011, 01:06 PM
For the Texans though, If I were a CB of "Awesome-wah"s calibre (I love that), Houston would be very enticing. I understand you want to be on a great defense but now you're the #1 CB in the league, you would instantly and hugely upgrade the secondary, you're playing for one of the most respected DC's in the league that knows how to get the best out of his players. Just as important, your teams offense is one of, if not, the best in the league.



This is all true, but there is nothing in the Texans history to think that they're going to aggressively go after this guy especially when other teams will compete with them. They might actually express some interest just like every other team in the league who is in need of a shut down corner, but Smithiak isn't going to force Bob's hand. They never have in order to improve and Bob damn sure won't insist on a signing like this. This is a pipe dream that's more of laugher to me than anything.

Joe Texan
02-01-2011, 01:14 PM
I read to the second line





















































Then I got tired

Texas T
02-01-2011, 01:24 PM
Aso would be a great addition to the team, of that I'm sure we all agree.

I also hope that Ole Miss is right and the front office sees the benefits of picking him up.

As some others have already pointed out-does he want to come here??
He's in a sellers market and he's the seller, I'm sure he'll go where HE wants.
So that being said has anyone seen anything about where he would like to go or is he being quiet right now??

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2011, 01:29 PM
This is all true, but there is nothing in the Texans history to think that they're going to aggressively go after this guy especially when other teams will compete with them. They might actually express some interest just like every other team in the league who is in need of a shut down corner, but Smithiak isn't going to force Bob's hand. They never have in order to improve and Bob damn sure won't insist on a signing like this. This is a pipe dream that's more of laugher to me than anything.
I hear what you're saying. There hasn't been a history of us pursuing the #1 free agent. Am I saying that I think we're going to sign him? No, I just think there's actually more merit to it than most people think. Just like Kubiak never drafts O-linemen or RBs early. Well, we got Brown in the 1st and Tate in the 2nd. Never say never.

The biggest thing for me though is that Aso FITS here within the EXACT perameters our front office looks for. No we havn't had a history of pursuing high profile FAs like him, but how often does this really happen? Julius Peppers seems to be the biggest name and most recent that switched teams. Haynesworth is a terrible example because he's just not the type of guy they want on this team.

Troy Polamalu... Ed Reed... James Harrison... Dwight Freeney... Brian Urlacher... Damarcus Ware... soon to be Haloti Ngata... So many of these BIG NAME free agents, the best of the best, stay with their team. They re-sign with their team.

Asomugha wants out of Oakland. That's one of the biggest things seperating him from so many of the other "Elite Calibre" free agents over the past few years. And by Elite I mean, EELLIIIITTTEEE


Again, I'm not saying I think we're a hands down favorite, or that I have the highest expectations of this Front Office to get it done. I just think we havn't had a chance like this. One where all the stars align, where that player wants away from his former team, and fits every single criteria you set for a player. Julius Peppers would be close IMO, but we did sign Antonio Smith for $35.5MM that offseason and Mario I believe was the highest paid DE in the league ($55MM or so). This could be a great example of why we may pursue a guy like Ike Taylor over Asomugha. But also, we don't have ANY money tied up in the secondary like we did on the DL.

Texecutioner
02-01-2011, 01:31 PM
Aso would be a great addition to the team, of that I'm sure we all agree.

I also hope that Ole Miss is right and the front office sees the benefits of picking him up.

As some others have already pointed out-does he want to come here??
He's in a sellers market and he's the seller, I'm sure he'll go where HE wants.
So that being said has anyone seen anything about where he would like to go or is he being quiet right now??

You're right that he may be in a seller's market for himself, because he's a hot commodity, but your team can become the seller and that hot commodity just as easily. Your owner and GM set the table there and have just as strong of an ability to sell quality players around the league on their franchise and what they plan on doing and backing that up with examples of how that player or players fit into that plan and how it will become successful. Players around the league know that teams can turn themselves around extremely fast in the NFL if management is committed to that goal. Management has to "sell" that idea though, and I've never seen that happen with this franchise other than when Capers was here and they went after Orlando Pace for a brief moment and even then they didn't offer him that much money or act that aggressively.

Hervoyel
02-01-2011, 01:33 PM
He'll sign for very, very good money to play for the Patriots, Steelers, or Ravens (just thinking AFC, he'll look at the whole league), or somebody who doesn't specialize in finding new and imaginative ways to lose at the very end of games. In short he'll probably want to play for someone a little less "exciting" than the Texans.

We could sign him of course.... for stupid money. He might consider playing for a team like the Texans for stupid money. That's about it.

beerlover
02-01-2011, 01:38 PM
He'll sign for very, very good money to play for the Patriots, Steelers, or Ravens (just thinking AFC, he'll look at the whole league), or somebody who doesn't specialize in finding new and imaginative ways to lose at the very end of games. In short he'll probably want to play for someone a little less "exciting" than the Texans.

We could sign him of course.... for stupid money. He might consider playing for a team like the Texans for stupid money. That's about it.

I'll put my money on Jerry Jones over Bob McNair getting a deal done, sad to say :kubepalm:

OzzO
02-01-2011, 01:39 PM
Just to save the rehashed back and forth arguements....









... for the second time, see this existing thread.









http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79250







It's in the NFL section.

Calface4
02-01-2011, 01:40 PM
He'd be perfect for us! But us being the Texans... we'll find a way not to get him.

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2011, 01:40 PM
He'll sign for very, very good money to play for the Patriots, Steelers, or Ravens (just thinking AFC, he'll look at the whole league), or somebody who doesn't specialize in finding new and imaginative ways to lose at the very end of games. In short he'll probably want to play for someone a little less "exciting" than the Texans.

We could sign him of course.... for stupid money. He might consider playing for a team like the Texans for stupid money. That's about it.

Keep in mind no team can talk to him, let alone sign him, until a new CBA is completed. Rumors are that the new CBA may have certain perameters for playoff teams and Super Bowl teams in regards to the quality and number of free agents they sign. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility if the Steelers and Packers would not even be allowed to sign him unless they lost a player to Free Agency of the same calibre. Like a Polamalu or Roethleberger.

I'll be very very interested to hear what happens in this regard. If that happens to be the case, this is ALL THE MORE reason for the Texans to go big time in free agency this offseason. Assuming we make the playoffs next year and for years and years after, as Bob & Co. are planning, our chances for FA's like Asomugha, Ike Taylor, etc may be in jeopardy. Now is the time to take advantage of us being able to afford this and being on the verge of greatness (please don't laugh... lol).

Doppelganger
02-01-2011, 01:42 PM
He'd be perfect for us! But us being the Texans... we'll find a way not to get him.

He'd be perfect for 32 teams. Only one team will get him. Either a contender who offers him good money or a team that offers him a blank check.

Calface4
02-01-2011, 01:52 PM
He'd be perfect for 32 teams. Only one team will get him. Either a contender who offers him good money or a team that offers him a blank check.

I know we have the money for him. Just don't know if he would actually want to play here in the first place..

I think Mcnair wants him here and I saw this on Texans Bull Blog awhile back.
http://www.texansbullblog.com/biggest-news-day-texas-major-rumor/news/

Double Barrel
02-01-2011, 02:09 PM
He'll sign for very, very good money to play for the Patriots, Steelers, or Ravens (just thinking AFC, he'll look at the whole league), or somebody who doesn't specialize in finding new and imaginative ways to lose at the very end of games. In short he'll probably want to play for someone a little less "exciting" than the Texans.

We could sign him of course.... for stupid money. He might consider playing for a team like the Texans for stupid money. That's about it.

This is the Catch-22. The only way that he'd sign with the Texans would be if he's all about the money. But the Texans do not want players that are only about the money.

And money is the only logically compelling reason for a high caliber FA to sign with this franchise.

Remember, this is the same team with a roomful of brainiacs that thought going into the 2010 season with McCain and Jackson as our starters was a good idea. So I am doubtful that they'd even go for a player like Asomugha when their M.O. is to put sprinkles on dog turds and act like they're brownies.

srrono
02-01-2011, 02:13 PM
wow i just copied and pasted the story why it put spaces i dont know ill edit it sorry

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2011, 02:27 PM
Remember, this is the same team with a roomful of brainiacs that thought going into the 2010 season with McCain and Jackson as our starters was a good idea. So I am doubtful that they'd even go for a player like Asomugha when their M.O. is to put sprinkles on dog turds and act like they're brownies.
This is one of the reasons I'm hoping they have 'learned' from that mistake. Publicly they havn't admitted it, and I doubt they will. But behind closed doors, I simply cannot see them saying 'we're fine with what we got. the young guys learning a lot and they'll improve. we'll be fine there.' I really want to believe Kubiak/Phillips or McNair step up and say 'we're not going into next season with that same strategy.'

We've gone with "unproven" defensive coordinators the last 5 seasons... but fired our DC and got one of the most respected guys in the business and made him the highest paid DC coordinator in the league. Phillips does a great job of taking the existing player and putting them in the best position to succeed, but with someone of his calibre... you have think we'd throw him some guys to help improve the team.

McNair really really likes Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak and wants them to succeed here so bad. Phillips was a huge step in that process. Contracts are up in 2012... I think he's ready to see some real progress. Maybe we don't get Aso, but I just have this gut feeling they are going to pursue the top CBs harder than they've pursued any free agent to date.

HOU-TEX
02-01-2011, 02:40 PM
I know we have the money for him. Just don't know if he would actually want to play here in the first place..

I think Mcnair wants him here and I saw this on Texans Bull Blog awhile back.
http://www.texansbullblog.com/biggest-news-day-texas-major-rumor/news/

:spit: Boy, that's a real reliable source.

Norg
02-01-2011, 03:15 PM
Any Oakland fans can tell us the play of ASO these last two years maybe and why Oakland thinks dropping him is a good idea

has he slowed down these last two years ... im just saying maybe the #2 or #3 best CB in the FA this year would have better upside here ???

Grid
02-01-2011, 03:16 PM
Ive got 100 imaginary dollars that says we bring him to Houston.

And im not one to just throw my imaginary money around willy nilly.. I only make imaginary bets when im confident it will bear imaginary profits.

Kulluminatii
02-01-2011, 03:25 PM
Any Oakland fans can tell us the play of ASO these last two years maybe and why Oakland thinks dropping him is a good idea

has he slowed down these last two years ... im just saying maybe the #2 or #3 best CB in the FA this year would have better upside here ???

No, he hasn't slowed down a bit. Some Raider fans would like him to be more "active" on the field and get more INTs, but the dude barely gets thrown to! He's only given up 1 TD in the past 3 seasons...the guy is the definition of a shutdown corner. However, the amount we would have had to pay for him this next season just is not worth it. I think it was in the ballpark of 17-18m. I'm still hoping we can sign Aso to a more reasonable contract, but if not the $ we save can be put to keeping some of our other players like Seymour, Bush, etc.

disaacks3
02-01-2011, 03:41 PM
Any Oakland fans can tell us the play of ASO these last two years maybe and why Oakland thinks dropping him is a good idea

has he slowed down these last two years ... im just saying maybe the #2 or #3 best CB in the FA this year would have better upside here ???

Asomugha hasn't appeared to 'slow down' any to me.

This is the Texans...we can use the #1, #2 AND #3 CBs right now.

I'm tired of the Texans trying to 'cheapskate' their way to success when it come to big-name FA splashes. This one would be a good acquisition by ANYONE'S measure, not just the Texans FO.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 03:50 PM
Houston Texans: Nnamdi Asomugha is the Missing Link for the Texans Secondary
By
Stephen Kasper


When I heard Nnamdi Asomugha would be entering free agency this offseason, the first place I could imagine him landing was Houston.


Surprisingly, a Houston Texans beat writer thought of Houston first.


hmmm........

ArlingtonTexan
02-01-2011, 04:51 PM
Surprisingly, a Houston Texans beat writer thought of Houston first.


hmmm........

Kudos to both of them. I mean one of the two or three best CBs in the league goes on the market and the Texans had one of the handful of worst secondaries in the league. A couple of guys write full length articles on how great a fit that really good CB would be with that really bad pass defense. Absolute genius, no other football fans could have made that connection.

VTexan
02-01-2011, 05:41 PM
link
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/591602-houston-texans-nnamdi-asomugha-is-the-missing-link-for-the-texans-secondary?source=rss_teams_Houston_Texans

bleacher report

Ole Miss Texan
02-01-2011, 05:52 PM
This is a Texans kind of guy. Face of the franchise even.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC5DqeteXdQ

drs23
02-01-2011, 06:05 PM
This is a Texans kind of guy. Face of the franchise even.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC5DqeteXdQ

Agree, but will never happen. One may wish though. I'm not really sold on Bailey but he would be an upgrade no doubt.

Texan4Ever
02-01-2011, 06:08 PM
I don't understand why McNair doesn't want to go after big name players. Heck, don't you agree that more people would tune into Texans game if we were to sign Aso and have him shutdown his side of the field? You would think that with all the extra publicity the Texans would get, it would be well worth the $$$ that McNair pays Aso.

Don't know if this has been posted but the Texans are supposdly worth $1.17 billion according to Yahoo Sports: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110201_texans_are_worth_117_billion

gary
02-01-2011, 06:15 PM
I would rather have Asomugh but Bailey would be an upgrade over Jackson.

RagingBull
02-01-2011, 06:34 PM
This is all true, but there is nothing in the Texans history to think that they're going to aggressively go after this guy especially when other teams will compete with them. They might actually express some interest just like every other team in the league who is in need of a shut down corner, but Smithiak isn't going to force Bob's hand. They never have in order to improve and Bob damn sure won't insist on a signing like this. This is a pipe dream that's more of laugher to me than anything.

Well, I disagree to an extent... The Texans went after Matt Schaub pretty aggressively and had to beat out several other teams to get him. At that point in time, there weren't too many other options available and it was beyond evident that HWSNBN wasn't going to cut it.

Hopefully, this last seasons epic fail in the secondary has opened their eyes enough to light a fire under their collective butts to get this done.

infantrycak
02-01-2011, 06:45 PM
Well, I disagree to an extent... The Texans went after Matt Schaub pretty aggressively and had to beat out several other teams to get him. At that point in time, there weren't too many other options available and it was beyond evident that HWSNBN wasn't going to cut it.

Hopefully, this last seasons epic fail in the secondary has opened their eyes enough to light a fire under their collective butts to get this done.

Yup. This "the Texans don't go after free agents" thing is way overblown. Todd Wade was the top ranked OL free agent that off-season. Same thing with Antonio Smith, Robaire Smith and as you mention Matt Schaub (not a free agent but an aggressive move). Now certainly some have sucked such as Wade and Robaire but it wasn't lack of trying.

jerek
02-01-2011, 06:51 PM
The Texans won't touch this guy. They're not committed enough in becoming a dominant team to where they'll go out and sign a missing piece like this. They've had all types of opportunities over the last few years to fix huge holes when certain players became available, and they've done nothing significant to make that splash or to address those important needs, especially on the defense. They've been anti free agency for years under Smithiak and as long as Smithiak is here they will only build through the draft.

+1 - I second this. We have made some significant free agent signings but we've passed on many more that seemed obvious to me.

JB
02-01-2011, 07:06 PM
+1 - I second this. We have made some significant free agent signings but we've passed on many more that seemed obvious to me.


I don't understand the condemnation on this board about the lack of free agent signings. It takes two to tango, and the Texans do not release much info about what they are doing. We don't know who they have contacted in the past and were told the player was not interested in coming here. Maybe no one, maybe every significant FA to hit the market in the last 5 years.

Doppelganger
02-01-2011, 07:15 PM
This is the Catch-22. The only way that he'd sign with the Texans would be if he's all about the money. But the Texans do not want players that are only about the money.

And money is the only logically compelling reason for a high caliber FA to sign with this franchise.

Remember, this is the same team with a roomful of brainiacs that thought going into the 2010 season with McCain and Jackson as our starters was a good idea. So I am doubtful that they'd even go for a player like Asomugha when their M.O. is to put sprinkles on dog turds and act like they're brownies.

Well one difference is that Wade Phillips is here now. He has had some real good defenses and I bet if Phillips said he wanted Aso, McNair would listen.

Now, as I said before, Aso has been stuck in Oakland so I could see him wanting to go to a contender(as he will get great $ anyway). So, even if we make a push to sign him, we may not get him. I mean we made a move for Leigh Bodden and he used us to get more $ out of the Pats. Probably should have tried to get Lito Sheppard(if he was available) but was there anyone else even decent? I don't recall.

Please remind me.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 07:15 PM
I don't understand why McNair doesn't want to go after big name players.

How many big name FAs has Cleveland signed? San Francisco? Buffalo? Detroit? Has Arizona signed any big name FAs? & they've been to the Super Bowl.

I don't know that we don't go after FAs... agents are probably telling us don't bother from the get go.

ArlingtonTexan
02-01-2011, 07:20 PM
Yup. This "the Texans don't go after free agents" thing is way overblown. Todd Wade was the top ranked OL free agent that off-season. Same thing with Antonio Smith, Robaire Smith and as you mention Matt Schaub (not a free agent but an aggressive move). Now certainly some have sucked such as Wade and Robaire but it wasn't lack of trying.

The problem is recognizing the talent level and fit with your team versus what a player's overall rank is. I mean saying Antonio smith is the best DLmen in his free agent class is not the same as saying that Julius Peppers was in his. Ultimately, this is why you need good football guys to know when a guy who looks like a meh signing like Wade smith this year that can h elp you win versus spending really big money on the "best" guy like Todd Wade who is not any better at way higher cost.

Double Barrel
02-01-2011, 07:28 PM
I don't understand the condemnation on this board about the lack of free agent signings. It takes two to tango, and the Texans do not release much info about what they are doing. We don't know who they have contacted in the past and were told the player was not interested in coming here. Maybe no one, maybe every significant FA to hit the market in the last 5 years.

yeah, I tend to be less critical of their inability to land free agents. Mainly due to the big picture of why would a free agent want to come here if all things are monetarily equal?

Well one difference is that Wade Phillips is here now. He has had some real good defenses and I bet if Phillips said he wanted Aso, McNair would listen.

It makes sense. I hope you're right!

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 07:31 PM
Well, I disagree to an extent... The Texans went after Matt Schaub pretty aggressively and had to beat out several other teams to get him.


I didn't think anyone else went after Schaub. I also thought it was pretty "last minute" in the process that we decided we wanted him.

We just offered him stupid money for no reason.

TexansSeminole
02-01-2011, 07:41 PM
Well one difference is that Wade Phillips is here now. He has had some real good defenses and I bet if Phillips said he wanted Aso, McNair would listen.

Now, as I said before, Aso has been stuck in Oakland so I could see him wanting to go to a contender(as he will get great $ anyway). So, even if we make a push to sign him, we may not get him. I mean we made a move for Leigh Bodden and he used us to get more $ out of the Pats. Probably should have tried to get Lito Sheppard(if he was available) but was there anyone else even decent? I don't recall.

Please remind me.

Lito Sheppard would have gotten us nowhere.

There was an opportunity back in 2008 to get Drayton Florence, but we didn't make that move. It wouldn't have been a marquee signing but Florence was the nickel back for San Diego the year before and was very effective. He was being looked at as a swing starter/nickel back. He went to Jax with a 6 year, $36 mil. contract, $15 mil guaranteed. He was released after one season and then signed with Buffalo. Last year, he had 3 INTs and 15 passes defensed. That one probably wouldn't have worked out here either with the inferior defensive coaches we've had over the years.

That's the problem we've had with free agents. Most of the time they have either been busts or have suffered from inferior coaching when they get here. While FAs aren't 22-23 year old draft picks, they still need to grow and be coached. We haven't had that here since Capers and Fangio and even the growth of the players then was probably below-average for the NFL. Let's hope this year will be different as far as the development of our players, most notably on defense obviously.

As far as Nnamdi, I wish. He would help out tremendously.

JB
02-01-2011, 08:41 PM
Lito Sheppard would have gotten us nowhere.

There was an opportunity back in 2008 to get Drayton Florence, but we didn't make that move. It wouldn't have been a marquee signing but Florence was the nickel back for San Diego the year before and was very effective. He was being looked at as a swing starter/nickel back. He went to Jax with a 6 year, $36 mil. contract, $15 mil guaranteed. He was released after one season and then signed with Buffalo. Last year, he had 3 INTs and 15 passes defensed. That one probably wouldn't have worked out here either with the inferior defensive coaches we've had over the years.

That's the problem we've had with free agents. Most of the time they have either been busts or have suffered from inferior coaching when they get here. While FAs aren't 22-23 year old draft picks, they still need to grow and be coached. We haven't had that here since Capers and Fangio and even the growth of the players then was probably below-average for the NFL. Let's hope this year will be different as far as the development of our players, most notably on defense obviously.

As far as Nnamdi, I wish. He would help out tremendously.


I think that one of the biggest problems we had was trying to make the players fit the scheme, instead of fitting the scheme to the players. Hopefully Wade is not full of shit.

burro
02-01-2011, 09:16 PM
Considering that he just got out of Oakland, just about anywhere is going to look appealing by comparison, just to throw that out there. Generally speaking however, the majority is right and landing Aso would cost a lot of money. It'd be some of the best money that Bob ever spent, granted, but we all know the MO and there is no use in beating a dead horse. There isn't enough Kool-Aid in the world to get me to seriously speculate on the possibility of this.

Mr teX
02-01-2011, 09:51 PM
This is the same excuse I've heard from scary Texans fans on this site every time there is some potential free agent on the market that fills a huge hole here. The typical Haynesworth example pours out as if he's the only free agent that's ever hit the market. The only examples ever used are the ones that get way over paid and don't pan out, but the ones that do that just get their fair market value" for their position and their worth never get mentioned and get ignored. Newsflash folks, if you want to compete you're going to have to spend some money at certain positions and CB may be one of the highest paid positions in the league, but it is for a reason and if you want a guy who can cover and make a real impact you've got to pay him unless you hit the lottery of luck in the draft and get that stud, and after the looking at how poorly our rookie CB Jackson played this season that should be a big lesson in how hard it is to find a true shut down corner and how overrated draft picks are at times.

You guys seem to forget at how much you over pay with draft picks half the time as well and every draft pick is an unproven player. At least with a top free agent guy like Nnamdi, you know that you're getting a proven stud instead of "potential." Nnamdi has not shown to be anything like Haynesworth in the attitude department. Haynesworth looked like a bad signing from a mile away. The Eagles went out and spent nice money on a top flight CB in Asante Samuel and he hasn't been some poor signing that hurt their team. You've got to pay for good corners.

Oh the free agent fear and how it circulates.

It's not just the haynesworth deal, he's just the latest example.

You're smarter than that tex. The players that get their fair market value are usually garbage, you of all people should know that, hell we've signed our fair share of those guys every year here. FA for players is 80% grabbing the most money you can & the other 20% is getting on a contending team. 2nd, you don't need a shutdown cb to be an impact guy...just a competent one who can cover half a lick. Charles Tillman nor charles woodson are shutdown guys they're just damn good well rounded cbs.

As for the 2nd part...completely different scenario. Most teams draft guys in the 1st to be immediate starters & those slots usually dictates what those guys get. What are you going to do not pay the guy who you wasted your 1st round draft pick on?

Texecutioner
02-01-2011, 11:38 PM
Yup. This "the Texans don't go after free agents" thing is way overblown. Todd Wade was the top ranked OL free agent that off-season. Same thing with Antonio Smith, Robaire Smith and as you mention Matt Schaub (not a free agent but an aggressive move). Now certainly some have sucked such as Wade and Robaire but it wasn't lack of trying.

You've been trying to argue this for years now. At some point the denial has to stop Cak. Every off season I've heard you make excuses on the lack of free agency moves that have locked this team down.

Todd Wade was the top OL free agent in the league? Lol! Maybe on some imaginary Texans blog he was after he was signed by a bunch of optimists, but Todd Wade never had that type of hype. Not even close. And Robaire Smith is your other example? Really? Hell, you could have done better by mentioning Phillip Buchannon, Amaan Green, or Erik Moulds even. At least those guys had decent seasons in their earlier careers at one point.

And Schaub wasn't exactly some guy who every team was after either. He was a guy that had question marks about him because he played here and there behind Vick. He wasn't some super hot commodity either. He was a back up QB that had potential to be a starter possibly at the time and Gary fell in love with him supposedly after a golf game.

Norg
02-02-2011, 03:07 AM
But if ASO is so good why has the raiders havent one anything the past like 7 years

wait why havent the texans won with there playmakers ????

NVM

thunderkyss
02-02-2011, 07:28 AM
But if ASO is so good why has the raiders havent one anything the past like 7 years

wait why havent the texans won with there playmakers ????

NVM

Just saying, there have been years when the Raiders defense has been top 10, but their offense has been putrid. Funny thing, I think the Raiders scored more than we did in 2010.

nero THE zero
02-02-2011, 09:13 AM
Yup. This "the Texans don't go after free agents" thing is way overblown. Todd Wade was the top ranked OL free agent that off-season. Same thing with Antonio Smith, Robaire Smith and as you mention Matt Schaub (not a free agent but an aggressive move). Now certainly some have sucked such as Wade and Robaire but it wasn't lack of trying.

And that's just the guys they successfully signed. We also went hard after top guys and lost, like Bodden and Pace.

Thorn
02-02-2011, 09:59 AM
Some of yall sure are eager to spend other folks money. (McNair's).

Maybe you should run for Congress. :lol:

Mr teX
02-02-2011, 10:01 AM
:rolleyes:I don't understand the condemnation on this board about the lack of free agent signings. It takes two to tango, and the Texans do not release much info about what they are doing. We don't know who they have contacted in the past and were told the player was not interested in coming here. Maybe no one, maybe every significant FA to hit the market in the last 5 years.

Yeah, it's beyond ridiculous b/c most of these people saying these things have no idea what goes on & are assuming things. It's black or white. The texans didn't sign peppers? It has to be the texans' fault that he didn't sign here....nevermind what the player may have wanted or had in mind.

Funny thing is, we watched the typical FA thing play itself out this past offseason with hosts of teams trying to court Lebron & Bosh.

Rockets fans: "we've got a great shot to get Bosh, we've got lots of assets, & a great team to build around him...Les & Morey just need to make it happen..Morey's down there with a van full of red rowdies making his pitch right now...yaaaayyyyyy!!!!"

The whole time bosh is thinking...."the rockets? please." :rolleyes:....

Double Barrel
02-02-2011, 01:49 PM
Some of yall sure are eager to spend other folks money. (McNair's).

Maybe you should run for Congress. :lol:

I'd say people are eager to win more games than lose and actually see the Texans play a game (or three) in January. Spending money on quality players is directly correlated to this goal.

As far as Congress is concerned, the difference is that they have the power to spend other people's money, even when it's not there. Fans are just doing what fans are supposed to do, talk about the team. Otherwise, this forum is kinda' pointless, 'eh? idonno:

Thorn
02-02-2011, 01:57 PM
um....it was a joke....

I guess next time I'll use the joke icon. Oops.

Ole Miss Texan
02-02-2011, 01:58 PM
I would rather have Asomugh but Bailey would be an upgrade over Jackson.

Agreed Gary. We need somebody, a legitimate veteran CB. I think everyone's favorite is Asomugha, with good reason. But Champ Bailey or Ike Taylor would both be great signings and do a world of good for this defense.

Watching Taylor in these playoffs has been nice. He's covers receivers well, can actuall turn his head and locate the ball, and is physical/helps in run support. His qualities are the same qualities Rick Smith says he's looking for in a CB.

I'm hoping for Asomugha but know that's a longshot. I'm hoping Taylor will leverage this postseason success, maybe even Super Bowl win, to leave the Steelers on a high note for a good sized contract. His value is high now and he may take advantage of it. I'll gladly take him.

infantrycak
02-02-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm going to keep saying it. Brent Grimes - the better Atlanta CB.

JB
02-02-2011, 02:44 PM
I'm going to keep saying it. Brent Grimes - the better Atlanta CB.

I would be happy with Grimes, Taylor or Jonathan Joseph. More realistic options to me. Love to have Aso or Bailey, but probably not going to happen. Grimes & Joseph are both still young and would look great in a Texans uni.

gary
02-02-2011, 03:17 PM
Grimes is a free agent?

Double Barrel
02-02-2011, 03:19 PM
um....it was a joke....

I guess next time I'll use the joke icon. Oops.

I kinda' figured. I was sort of piggybacking your post to make a point, as I've seen others get upset about fans 'spending' owners' money. If I had to power to spend that money, it wouldn't be on players. It'd be on a new truck and a trip to Hawaii! :D

infantrycak
02-02-2011, 03:35 PM
Grimes is a free agent?

Yes. The question is what rules they will put in place for UFA, RFA if they reach a new CBA.

Second Honeymoon
02-02-2011, 03:39 PM
How many big name FAs has Cleveland signed? San Francisco? Buffalo? Detroit? Has Arizona signed any big name FAs? & they've been to the Super Bowl.

I don't know that we don't go after FAs... agents are probably telling us don't bother from the get go.

then you have to get a coach in here that players will want to come and play for. someone that legitimizes the whole team and players would trust that things were going to change and get better.

I would also like to point out that all of those ownership groups you mentioned are probably the worst/least competitive ownership groups in the NFL.

Cleveland. Lerner is a horrible owner who, like McNair, gravy-trains off of a rabid football fanbase without fielding a winning product. Now that Holmgren is in charge, things may turn around but I have heard he may leave.

San Francisco. Once home to one of the great owners in the NFL, DeBartolo, now the team suffers amidst owners who inherited the team and could really care less. Just another notch in their portfolio. Now they have called upon Jim Harbaugh to save them and its not going to work out until they get a handle on the QB position.

Buffalo. Rich is an elder statesman of the league and deserves some measure of respect. However, his team has sucked for a decade and a half and then there is the whole matter of 35-3. Screw Buffalo.

Detroit. The Ford family has driven that franchise into the dirt. So many embarassments but I guess there is always Barry Sanders giving you the finger and retiring and then we always have 0-16 to admire.

All these owners have not been effective owners. Now you want to compare Houston with them to support McNair's efforts at attracting top talent to this team? all this does is show a co-relation between not spending money and not winning football games. Teams like the Jets, Bears, Atlanta, and Kansas City were all aggressive in fixing their football teams this past offseason. They all took different routes but they were AGRESSIVE and got the job done.

Teams like the Chargers and Texans went cheap and missed out on the playoffs..

thunderkyss
02-02-2011, 06:06 PM
All these owners have not been effective owners. Now you want to compare Houston with them to support McNair's efforts at attracting top talent to this team? all this does is show a co-relation between not spending money and not winning football games. Teams like the Jets, Bears, Atlanta, and Kansas City were all aggressive in fixing their football teams this past offseason. They all took different routes but they were AGRESSIVE and got the job done.

Teams like the Chargers and Texans went cheap and missed out on the playoffs..

Yes, you are correct. It is totally possible that the Texans were just plain cheap this offseason.

However, I believe players don't want to come to Houston. We have not seen any player go to another team for more money...... well, we've seen Bodden & Pace stay with their original team, but that's different. We have seen players go to other teams... David Givens.

Until we start winning, forget Free AGents.

Norg
02-03-2011, 03:08 AM
Other names

Champ Bailey
Brent grimes
Chris Carr
Jonathan j

Anyone prob would help us.

Or do we get another top rookie cb in the draft ????

Texecutioner
02-03-2011, 03:41 AM
Yes, you are correct. It is totally possible that the Texans were just plain cheap this offseason.

However, I believe players don't want to come to Houston.

Out of all of the lame excuses that you've given either Mcnair or Smithiak over the years, this just may be the sloppiest one yet Seriously where do you pull this drivel from? Players don't want to come to Houston? So what you're essentially saying is that we're geographically screwed. We're up shit's creek without a paddle and we can't be fixed. That's just nonsense and there's a gazillion examples around the NFL over the last 20 years that disprove that theory about any team.

You ever heard of the Bucs?? They were garbage for a very long time. They were jokes of the league. Once Dungy got in there and brought in some real talent, some quality free agents, and built a nice unit they were a contenders and even won a SB.

Ever heard of the NE Patriots? Horrible jokes of the league. Bill Parcells went in there and got them to a SB very quickly. They went back into becoming door mats again and a Bill Parcells assistant named BB made them into a multiple SB winner where free agents begged to go to. Not because they won a SB, but because they weren't afraid to spend money and because they got players "to buy in". Players knew that BB was about business.

You bring in coaches and a staff that has the ability to bring change to your organization and changes a losing attitude. People thought Kubes could do that when Capers had a 2-14 season. You don't give a guy that many years to do it though if he fails and fails hard which Kubiak has. You change up again, and try it with someone else. We just had a shot at an all time great in Cowher, and we said no thanks. We said that we're on the right track with Smithiak. :vincepalm:


Again a sloppy excuse. Any franchise in the NFL can get what they want by selling their vision for their future and by spending market value money on players. You don't win jack without spending. And part of being a HC and a GM is being a salesman. Just because you're not a college coach doesn't mean that you don't recruit. That's part of the job in the NFL as well for coaches that actually are committed.

b0ng
02-03-2011, 08:58 AM
wow i just copied and pasted the story why it put spaces i dont know ill edit it sorry

Don't worry about it. Most of this board turns into assholes whenever there is no more Texans football for the year. As much as they may hate Texans football.

JB
02-03-2011, 09:11 AM
Don't worry about it. Most of this board turns into assholes whenever there is no more Texans football for the year. As much as they may hate Texans football.

It's the OFFSEASON! It's what we do...

thunderkyss
02-03-2011, 11:48 AM
Out of all of the lame excuses that you've given either Mcnair or Smithiak over the years, this just may be the sloppiest one yet Seriously where do you pull this drivel from?

When you see my name, you instantly think "excuse" so you don't see what I've said. Instead, you see/hear what you think I said.

Players don't want to come to Houston? So what you're essentially saying is that we're geographically screwed. We're up shit's creek without a paddle and we can't be fixed. That's just nonsense and there's a gazillion examples around the NFL over the last 20 years that disprove that theory about any team.

It's not about geography, I never said any such thing.

You ever heard of the Bucs?? They were garbage for a very long time. They were jokes of the league. Once Dungy got in there and brought in some real talent, some quality free agents, and built a nice unit they were a contenders and even won a SB.

& Dungy did it with Sapp, Rice, Brooks, Barber, Lynch, etc.... players he drafted. He took his expertise (defense) brought in another strong defensive mind (Kiffen) & made one of the best defenses of all time.

That was a long time ago, but I can't remember what FAs he was able to bring to Tampa before establishing a tradition of winning.

Ever heard of the NE Patriots? Horrible jokes of the league. Bill Parcells went in there and got them to a SB very quickly. They went back into becoming door mats again and a Bill Parcells assistant named BB made them into a multiple SB winner where free agents begged to go to. Not because they won a SB, but because they weren't afraid to spend money and because they got players "to buy in". Players knew that BB was about business.

I bet if you go back & look it wasn't until after they became winners that people wanted to go to New England. Not necessarily a Super Bowl, but winners with a shot.

You bring in coaches and a staff that has the ability to bring change to your organization and changes a losing attitude. People thought Kubes could do that when Capers had a 2-14 season. You don't give a guy that many years to do it though if he fails and fails hard which Kubiak has. You change up again, and try it with someone else. We just had a shot at an all time great in Cowher, and we said no thanks. We said that we're on the right track with Smithiak. :vincepalm:

I'm in complete agreement with you here. Never said any different.

except, I don't know if our team still has a losing attitude, or if they expect to win. It's hard to tell from where you & I sit. Bob has a much better view. You don't trust Bob, I get that.

I also don't know how serious Cowher wanted to come to Houston. I have no reason to believe he was any more serious than Orlando Pace, David Givens, or Leigh Bodden.


Again a sloppy excuse. Any franchise in the NFL can get what they want by selling their vision for their future and by spending market value money on players. You don't win jack without spending. And part of being a HC and a GM is being a salesman. Just because you're not a college coach doesn't mean that you don't recruit. That's part of the job in the NFL as well for coaches that actually are committed.
Again, I agree. I've never seen anything to suggest McNair is cheap as you & so many others have stated. We spent crazy, stupid money to get guys in here like Todd Wade, Robaire Smith, Anthony Weaver, Jaques Reeves. He threw money away on guys like David Carr & Dunta Robinson. He continues to bend over, spread his cheeks & hand money over to Andre Johnson (admit it, not many teams would have paid that man, big time, three times in less than a 6 year period).

So I'm throwing out the cheap argument. Smithiak's ability to bring in the big names..... I'm waiting to see what they do this offseason. I think they have done a poor job bringing in those big names. I think a better GM would have been able to do a better job.

In summary, I think Kubiak should have been sent packing after 2010. I believe Rick Smith ought to be on the hot seat this offseason (should have been last year, after not finding someone other than a rookie from Alabama to replace Dunta).

Unlike you, I am not going to pretend I know McNair enough to make the assumptions you have, and insult a man I don't know.

Bad juju....

gary
02-04-2011, 02:27 PM
I wish they would come to a new CBA agreement but that does not look likely.

GP
02-04-2011, 06:56 PM
When you see my name, you instantly think "excuse" so you don't see what I've said.

I think the more accurate perception is that you play both sides of the fence.

You'll say some things that show you're anti-establishment, and then you'll say some things that show you're pro Bob.

I wonder if the angst toward you is due to a perception that you're conveniently setting yourself up to be on the "right side" of whatever comes down the pike?

In reality, I think you're trying to be a moderate and examine all sides of the issue. That doesn't sit well with some people. There's a certain personality style that desires to pick a side and root root root for the old home team no matter what, full steam ahead and damn the torpedos.

edo783
02-04-2011, 07:37 PM
I'm going to keep saying it. Brent Grimes - the better Atlanta CB.

Correct. I suspect that he gets the Tag though, assuming they still have one. Ideally IMO we get him and Joeseph's. That fixes the CB issue pretty well then Von Miller or Houston in the draft and a NT in the draft along with some upgrade/development guys at the safety spots. Probably can't fix all the defensive issues, but that would be a decent start.

badboy
02-05-2011, 01:43 PM
No, he hasn't slowed down a bit. Some Raider fans would like him to be more "active" on the field and get more INTs, but the dude barely gets thrown to! He's only given up 1 TD in the past 3 seasons...the guy is the definition of a shutdown corner. However, the amount we would have had to pay for him this next season just is not worth it. I think it was in the ballpark of 17-18m. I'm still hoping we can sign Aso to a more reasonable contract, but if not the $ we save can be put to keeping some of our other players like Seymour, Bush, etc.My understanding is Oakland had nothing to do with him becoming a FA unless you count agreeing to a stupid incentative clause. Look this guy is a probowler and can cut off 1/2 the field. He instantly makes your Dline better & does not require a safety over the top allowing them to cheat to your #2 CB. We can afford him especially with some guys not coming back... Wilson @ FS, Walter @ WR. and other to give McNair some cash to throw.

False Start
02-05-2011, 03:04 PM
He may be the missing link, but that link that will be never be found. http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/hankpalm.png

Rey
02-05-2011, 03:09 PM
I think the more accurate perception is that you play both sides of the fence.

You'll say some things that show you're anti-establishment, and then you'll say some things that show you're pro Bob.

I wonder if the angst toward you is due to a perception that you're conveniently setting yourself up to be on the "right side" of whatever comes down the pike?



I don' think there is anything wrong with acknowledging the faults with ownership/management/coaching but still thinking that they're doing a good job.

This is coming from someone who thought they should have all been wiped out this off-season.

thunderkyss
02-05-2011, 03:28 PM
My understanding is Oakland had nothing to do with him becoming a FA unless you count agreeing to a stupid incentative clause. Look this guy is a probowler and can cut off 1/2 the field. He instantly makes your Dline better & does not require a safety over the top allowing them to cheat to your #2 CB. We can afford him especially with some guys not coming back... Wilson @ FS, Walter @ WR. and other to give McNair some cash to throw.

The secondary helping the DLine?

How novel??

thunderkyss
02-05-2011, 03:41 PM
I don' think there is anything wrong with acknowledging the faults with ownership/management/coaching but still thinking that they're doing a good job.

This is coming from someone who thought they should have all been wiped out this off-season.

It's been a while since I've stated that this franchise is doing a good job. I give credit where credit is due, criticize where I think criticism is due, & I'll argue "logic" that just don't make sense to me.

I don't believe Cowher or Gruden, or Dungy or any of the "proven" winners are sure things.

This is not a comparison to Belichick
Look at Belichick's lack of success in Cleveland contrasted with the success he's had in New England. Is it the man that changed? or is that he "fit" with that organization much better. He wanted player control in Cleveland, didn't get it. He's got it in New England.

Cowher never had it in Pittsburgh, but that's one of the things he says he wants.... How successful will he be picking his own groceries? We don't know.

Gruden did a wonderful job building the Raiders through FA... not so good in Tampa. One of the big reasons for his success in Oakland was the resurrection of Rich Gannon's career. He had a frk'n harem of QBs in Tampa & couldn't find success with any of them. That team degraded with each subsequent year of Gruden.

I don't think Dungy even wants to coach.

Do I think Kubiak's chances of success next year is any better than those guys?

I have no idea. His probability of failure, I think, is just as high. Cutting his nads & bringing in Phillips, I think is a wild-card, a bold move by McNair which says he's looking for success, next year.

I could bch wine & moan that McNair didn't take my advice & cut ties with Kubiak, but I don't work that way. Definitely don't want to see the old man fail, not at all feeling confident about the decision he made. But looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

steelbtexan
02-05-2011, 03:42 PM
BoB spending $$$$ that it would take for the Texans to sign ASO=LOL.

steelbtexan
02-05-2011, 03:50 PM
It's been a while since I've stated that this franchise is doing a good job. I give credit where credit is due, criticize where I think criticism is due, & I'll argue "logic" that just don't make sense to me.

I don't believe Cowher or Gruden, or Dungy or any of the "proven" winners are sure things.

This is not a comparison to Belichick
Look at Belichick's lack of success in Cleveland contrasted with the success he's had in New England. Is it the man that changed? or is that he "fit" with that organization much better. He wanted player control in Cleveland, didn't get it. He's got it in New England.

Cowher never had it in Pittsburgh, but that's one of the things he says he wants.... How successful will he be picking his own groceries? We don't know.

Gruden did a wonderful job building the Raiders through FA... not so good in Tampa. One of the big reasons for his success in Oakland was the resurrection of Rich Gannon's career. He had a frk'n harem of QBs in Tampa & couldn't find success with any of them. That team degraded with each subsequent year of Gruden.

I don't think Dungy even wants to coach.

Do I think Kubiak's chances of success next year is any better than those guys?

I have no idea. His probability of failure, I think, is just as high. Cutting his nads & bringing in Phillips, I think is a wild-card, a bold move by McNair which says he's looking for success, next year.

I could bch wine & moan that McNair didn't take my advice & cut ties with Kubiak, but I don't work that way. Definitely don't want to see the old man fail, not at all feeling confident about the decision he made. But looking forward to seeing how it plays out.

The whole Kubiak regime should've been blown out. But BoB didn't want to pay for his extention mistake.

And yes, Gruden,Cowher,Billick etc... would've been an upgrade over Kubiak. BoB decided to go another way. I dont think BoB's way is going to work. (Has his way ever worked) But time will tell.

Has there ever been a team that has had a 2nd yr HC, a rookie GM, a rookie DC,a rookie OC and ever been sucessful in the NFL. That's the reason the Texans are where they are today and why the future isn't very bright.

This falls at the feet of one Robert C. McNair for letting such an inexperienced staff to be assembled.

thunderkyss
02-05-2011, 07:13 PM
This falls at the feet of one Robert C. McNair for letting such an inexperienced staff to be assembled.

I don't believe McNair is doing a good job, so don't take the following words any differently.

In his defense, he had an experienced staff the first time around. The results weren't very good.

infantrycak
02-05-2011, 07:56 PM
And yes, Gruden,Cowher,Billick etc... would've been an upgrade over Kubiak.

Must be why all three are currently employed as coaches.

Has there ever been a team that has had a 2nd yr HC, a rookie GM, a rookie DC,a rookie OC and ever been sucessful in the NFL. That's the reason the Texans are where they are today and why the future isn't very bright.

This falls at the feet of one Robert C. McNair for letting such an inexperienced staff to be assembled.

What does this refer to? When Kubiak was a 2nd year HC yes he had a rookie GM. His OC was a long time coach including having been an NFL head coach. The DC was coming off of having been DC for the Dolphins. Hate is cool and all but at least build it on correct facts.

steelbtexan
02-05-2011, 08:16 PM
Must be why all three are currently employed as coaches.



What does this refer to? When Kubiak was a 2nd year HC yes he had a rookie GM. His OC was a long time coach including having been an NFL head coach. The DC was coming off of having been DC for the Dolphins. Hate is cool and all but at least build it on correct facts.

Kubiak =HC/OC 2yrs
Sherman= OL coach with Asisst HC, many yrs exp.

Calhoun= OC 1 yr
Shanahan= OC 1 yr
Dennison = 2yrs OC Denver, 1 yr OC Hou

Defense
Richard Smith = 1 yr DC Miami, 2 yrs Hou
Frank Bush= 1 yr DC

GM Rick Smith 1 yr

There were some inexperienced people high up in the Texans org. that failed horribly at their jobs. Due to their inexperience. (IMHO) To say anything otherwise would be disingenious.

infantrycak
02-05-2011, 08:36 PM
Kubiak =HC/OC 2yrs
Sherman= OL coach with Asisst HC, many yrs exp.

Calhoun= OC 1 yr
Shanahan= OC 1 yr
Dennison = 2yrs OC Denver, 1 yr OC Hou

Defense
Richard Smith = 1 yr DC Miami, 2 yrs Hou
Frank Bush= 1 yr DC

GM Rick Smith 1 yr

There were some inexperienced people high up in the Texans org. that failed horribly at their jobs. Due to their inexperience. (IMHO) To say anything otherwise would be disingenious.

No to say something otherwise would be realistic. The crap didn't work out. Doesn't mean it was all wrong as some sort of general rule. 2001 the Patriots won the SB with a guy with less than Sherman's experience as OC, a 2nd year head coach on a rehabilitation tour from being considered a joke, a first year GM (actually they wouldn't even call him that) and a 2nd year DC. It worked for them. It didn't for the Texans. Don't learn the wrong lesson (or assert it).

Mark Twain - “The cat, having sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a hot stove lid again. But he won't sit upon a cold stove lid, either.”

steelbtexan
02-05-2011, 09:49 PM
No to say something otherwise would be realistic. The crap didn't work out. Doesn't mean it was all wrong as some sort of general rule. 2001 the Patriots won the SB with a guy with less than Sherman's experience as OC, a 2nd year head coach on a rehabilitation tour from being considered a joke, a first year GM (actually they wouldn't even call him that) and a 2nd year DC. It worked for them. It didn't for the Texans. Don't learn the wrong lesson (or assert it).

Mark Twain - “The cat, having sat upon a hot stove lid, will not sit upon a hot stove lid again. But he won't sit upon a cold stove lid, either.”

Fair enough

Do you honestly think Kraft would've kept BB around for a 6th yr. If he had Gary's track record? I dont think that's in Krafts' history.

You might think otherwise and I would seriously like to hear your rationale in this argument counselor.

Second Honeymoon
02-06-2011, 05:43 AM
Fair enough

Do you honestly think Kraft would've kept BB around for a 6th yr. If he had Gary's track record? I dont think that's in Krafts' history.

You might think otherwise and I would seriously like to hear your rationale in this argument counselor.

Sounds to me like a bunch of tired excuses in this thread. Same ole same ole

JB
02-06-2011, 08:22 AM
Sounds to me like a bunch of tired excuses in this thread. Same ole same ole

Sounds to me like a bunch of tired bitching in this thread. Same ole same ole

infantrycak
02-06-2011, 10:34 AM
Fair enough

Do you honestly think Kraft would've kept BB around for a 6th yr. If he had Gary's track record? I dont think that's in Krafts' history.

You might think otherwise and I would seriously like to hear your rationale in this argument counselor.

Neither of us has any idea what Kraft would have done. I just don't subscribe to the anything the Texans have done is definitionaly wrong theory. Sometimes crap doesn't work out but the gamble you made wasn't a bad one.

gary
02-06-2011, 11:29 AM
I think Cowher and Gruden are just waiting for a team that is built for the playoffs to open up.

Lucky
02-06-2011, 11:34 AM
Hate is cool and all but at least build it on correct facts.
The facts are there. 5 years and Kubiak & Smith have failed to build a playoff contender. Some of these guys are attempting to do a forensic analysis as to why. Can you point to other examples as to why their evidence is lacking? Sure. But you can't argue that Kubiak & Smith have not failed.

That doesn't mean that the Texans will fail in 2011. I (and others) would suggest that they will, based upon previous outcomes. Others will predict that the changes made this year will turn the franchise around. Both sides can point to evidence in their favor. Both sides can point to evidence that contradicts the opposing view. There are no sets of facts more correct than another.

I would think that if Kubiak and Smith had the ability to build a contender, we would have seen it by now. They saw what a championship team looks like while in Denver. But Michelangelo had apprentices. Doesn't mean they would be able to create another Sistine chapel on their own.

A major event such as signing Asomugha could change my thinking. It would be a bold and unconventional move by this organization. It could create a butterfly effect where the young corners improve, the pass rush improves, everything improves. But it's an incredibly unlikely possibility. It's like a hail mary heave where the opposition bats the ball into your hands for the winning score. It happens. But it happens for the other guys.

steelbtexan
02-06-2011, 11:45 AM
Cant Rep you

Great post

steelbtexan
02-06-2011, 11:47 AM
Neither of us has any idea what Kraft would have done. I just don't subscribe to the anything the Texans have done is definitionaly wrong theory. Sometimes crap doesn't work out but the gamble you made wasn't a bad one.

Didn't Kraft fire Carroll after 3yrs of basically 8-8 mediocrity?

thunderkyss
02-06-2011, 12:19 PM
The facts are there. 5 years and Kubiak & Smith have failed to build a playoff contender. Some of these guys are attempting to do a forensic analysis as to why. Can you point to other examples as to why their evidence is lacking? Sure. But you can't argue that Kubiak & Smith have not failed.

That doesn't mean that the Texans will fail in 2011. I (and others) would suggest that they will, based upon previous outcomes. Others will predict that the changes made this year will turn the franchise around. Both sides can point to evidence in their favor. Both sides can point to evidence that contradicts the opposing view. There are no sets of facts more correct than another.

I would think that if Kubiak and Smith had the ability to build a contender, we would have seen it by now. They saw what a championship team looks like while in Denver. But Michelangelo had apprentices. Doesn't mean they would be able to create another Sistine chapel on their own.

A major event such as signing Asomugha could change my thinking. It would be a bold and unconventional move by this organization. It could create a butterfly effect where the young corners improve, the pass rush improves, everything improves. But it's an incredibly unlikely possibility. It's like a hail mary heave where the opposition bats the ball into your hands for the winning score. It happens. But it happens for the other guys.

That's all I've ever said.

infantrycak
02-07-2011, 10:44 AM
The facts are there. 5 years and Kubiak & Smith have failed to build a playoff contender. Some of these guys are attempting to do a forensic analysis as to why. Can you point to other examples as to why their evidence is lacking? Sure. But you can't argue that Kubiak & Smith have not failed.

I have never argued they have not failed. My point was much of what has been going on has nothing to do with forensic analysis and is simply the assertion - Houston Texans did it = must be bad. Well that and a lot of assumptions that all the information we don't know is all as bad as can be imagined. I wouldn't mind some legitimate forensic analysis.

Didn't Kraft fire Carroll after 3yrs of basically 8-8 mediocrity?

Kind of. More like Carroll took over a Parcells playoff team (went to the SB) and then actually went to the playoffs the first two years but each year Carroll was coach the record was getting worse. They also let Curtis Martin go to the Jets in that time despite being in the pro-bowl 2 of his 3 years in NE.

Texanmike02
02-07-2011, 03:42 PM
Just going to get my reply to the whole thread here is the post I wrote a few weeks ago. It speaks to free agent moves and football people.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Clearly stated thought fail.

Mike