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TheCD
01-31-2011, 02:38 PM
Time to ingite the debate once again...

"If you're successful financially, but you're not successful on the field," he said, "then you're not successful. If you're just in this to make money, there are a lot of things you could do that are a lot easier and more profitable."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7405153.html

mancunian
01-31-2011, 02:40 PM
well spend some then to make sure that defence isn't number 32 next year

Second Honeymoon
01-31-2011, 02:43 PM
Not successful but definitely been profitable

mancunian
01-31-2011, 02:53 PM
we're valued as the 10th richest Franchise in the NFL, surely we have some money to spend on players or invest further in the scouting etc

Mr. White
01-31-2011, 03:01 PM
The franchise's first four seasons were essentially squandered under GM Charley Casserly, coach Dom Capers and quarterback David Carr, who also proved an albatross for Kubiak in his first season. But, McNair argues, "You make decisions based on the information you have and you move forward. It's a waste of time to look backwards."

For some reason, I can't help but be reminded of the old line:

"Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."

At least Bob's talking the talk in the article, but that's the easy part.

In other news, it's also the time of year to get people signed up for the Season Ticket Priority Waitlist.

Ole Miss Texan
01-31-2011, 03:03 PM
we're valued as the 10th richest Franchise in the NFL, surely we have some money to spend on players or invest further in the scouting etc
Actually, we're the 10th most valuable franchise in the world. I think we're 6th among NFL teams. The remaining franchises are 3 soccer clubs and the Yankees. Thus likely making your point even more valid. lol

Dutchrudder
01-31-2011, 03:07 PM
Actually, we're the 10th most valuable franchise in the world. I think we're 6th among NFL teams. The remaining franchises are 3 soccer clubs and the Yankees. Thus likely making your point even more valid. lol

I think the Lakers are up there too, but yeah we make the Texans worth a lot...

GuerillaBlack
01-31-2011, 03:08 PM
LMAO! Can't take anything Bob says seriously, until I see that Texans logo in the playoff bracket on ESPN.

Blake
01-31-2011, 03:09 PM
Ive had enough smoke blown up my butt by McNair. Show me. Dont tell me.

mancunian
01-31-2011, 03:10 PM
Actually, we're the 10th most valuable franchise in the world. I think we're 6th among NFL teams. The remaining franchises are 3 soccer clubs and the Yankees. Thus likely making your point even more valid. lol

oops mis read that then......

Double Barrel
01-31-2011, 03:12 PM
Interesting read. I found this part to be enlightening:

In retrospect, he admits he wishes he'd sought the counsel of his experienced peers, but at the time there was a pretty good reason why he chose not to.

"I'd been negotiating with them over the price of the team," McNair said.

"They were trying to get as high a price as they could, and I was trying to get a reasonable price," he said. "After you've gone through that, you're not real confident talking to those folks and asking for advice - not after they've just finished trying to take every nickel you have.

"I mean, how much could I trust them? I had to learn who would be honest and candid with me. That took some time."

I have always been under the impression that he sought their advice in the beginning, but this paints an entirely different picture.

I do not question his desire to win. To me, at least, that's a no brainer. You spend a billion on a football team, you damn sure want to win. However, that being said, I think the learning curve and loyalty issues have really cost him in the past 9 seasons. Hopefully his decisions pay off in 2011 (provided there's a season, of course). A decade of futility is good for nobody in this city, owner included.

mancunian
01-31-2011, 03:15 PM
If the losing carries on then the rumour mill will include us in the list if teams that wants to relocate to LA.

(Not that I think we would ever move, people like to start stories)

gary
01-31-2011, 03:28 PM
Hey, good news the season ticket prises will stay the same.

DX-TEX
01-31-2011, 04:06 PM
Hey Bob? Prove me wrong and sign Namdi! That'll show me how wrong I am!

I double dog dare ya!!

Brisco_County
01-31-2011, 04:17 PM
More than anything, this interview reinforces what a total disaster Casserly was. If there had to be one landmine for McNair to step on, that was it. Dom Capers is in a Superbowl, and Casserly got bitchslapped by Belichick last we heard.

"Don't pay attention to the valuations you read about," he argues. "Those people publish magazines. They don't buy teams. And it does you no good anyway if you have no intention of selling, which I don't."

Very true. It's not like he reaps dividends like it's a stock. The only thing that matters when talking about the team's monetary value is cap space.

Double Barrel
01-31-2011, 04:29 PM
If the losing carries on then the rumour mill will include us in the list if teams that wants to relocate to LA.

(Not that I think we would ever move, people like to start stories)

nah, with 9 consecutive seasons of Reliant sellouts and 21 years left on the lease, moving the team is the last thing that I'm worried about.

steelbtexan
01-31-2011, 04:34 PM
Whatever BoB,

The proof is in the pudding and so far your actions haven't matched your words.

Like I said last yr it's time for you to step up to the plate and put your $$$$ where your mouth is.

disaacks3
01-31-2011, 05:22 PM
For some reason, I can't help but be reminded of the old line:

"Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it."

At least Bob's talking the talk in the article, but that's the easy part.

In other news, it's also the time of year to get people signed up for the Season Ticket Priority Waitlist. Funny, that was my reply to the article on Chron.com

Hey Bob? Prove me wrong and sign Namdi! That'll show me how wrong I am!

I double dog dare ya!! You and me both...wouldn't it be nioce to get a guy we KNOW is still good?

Hervoyel
01-31-2011, 05:58 PM
See, I know I've been changed as a fan (for good I suspect) because I read this article and can't help but think "What an asshole".

I know that's not really what he's like. At least I'm pretty sure it isn't. I understand that he thinks he's doing the right thing and that he wants to win. It's not that he's an asshole. It's that he's far out of his element and that makes him as clueless as you or I would be trying to cut diamonds professionally or performing a triple bypass on someone (assuming none of you do either of jobs for a living, I don't).

I don't believe him. I don't believe in him. I think he does this kind of interview at this time of year because (as Mr. White said) it's time to get people thinking of season tickets for 2011.

When I think about that then I start thinking he's an asshole.

Second Honeymoon
01-31-2011, 06:15 PM
Put your money where your mouth is, Bob. Bringing Wade in was pretty big $ for a coordinator but we need to spare no expense and if that means firing Kubiak and hiring a proven winner, so be it.

CloakNNNdagger
01-31-2011, 06:19 PM
Interesting read. I found this part to be enlightening:



I have always been under the impression that he sought their advice in the beginning, but this paints an entirely different picture.

I do not question his desire to win. To me, at least, that's a no brainer. You spend a billion on a football team, you damn sure want to win. However, that being said, I think the learning curve and loyalty issues have really cost him in the past 9 seasons. Hopefully his decisions pay off in 2011 (provided there's a season, of course). A decade of futility is good for nobody in this city, owner included.

This makes his previous statement that the other owners think that we are on the right tract that much more ridiculous.

Double Barrel
01-31-2011, 06:31 PM
This makes his previous statement that the other owners think that we are on the right tract that much more ridiculous.

That crossed my mind, too, as well as mentions in the past of owners recommending Casserly as a GM.

Part of me wants to give him the benefit of the doubt...perhaps out of pity, maybe a dash of Texans fan optimism (not much there to be honest), and chalk it up to just being ignorant on running a football team...but then, I'm as cynical as they come and completely see where Mr. White and Herv are coming from with the ticket sales angle. The timing of this 'interview' supports the latter more than it does the former.

ThaShark316
01-31-2011, 06:48 PM
No playoffs next season = new...everything damn near.

Kubiak is ****ed if he starts 0-2.

JCTexan
01-31-2011, 07:02 PM
Kubiak is ****ed if he starts 0-2.

Hopefully for his sake Houston doesn't face a combination of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New Orleans or Atlanta in the first two games then.

Lucky
01-31-2011, 07:15 PM
No playoffs next season = new...everything damn near.
I thought 2009 was the Year of No Excuses?

The value of the franchise is meaningless? Does McNair think we are a bunch of rubes that don't understand the value of borrowing against appreciating assets?

And where does McNair get off on criticizing Carolina or Jacksonville? Those franchises have yet to win championships, but both have had tangible success. The Texans have attained squat. I'm glad that Houston has a NFL team and that someone ponied up the $$$ to obtain one. But the NFL has a license to print money, so spare me the idea that McNair risked anything.

The more McNair opens his mouth, the more I realize that he is the wrong man to head a NFL franchise. "They never showed us how to setup for the draft." Good grief, Bob McNair.

http://thatgirlisfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/charlie_brown_lucy_football.jpg

KA4Texan
01-31-2011, 07:16 PM
No playoffs next season = new...everything damn near.

Kubiak is ****ed if he starts 0-2.

I'll believe that when I see it, honestly this "make or break" season..... is starting to sound more and more like "WOLF, WOLF!!"

Texanmike02
01-31-2011, 07:23 PM
I think people talk out of both sides of their mouthes when it comes to this kind of stuff.

I was mad as hell about our team last season. I even stopped going to games which was a big deal because I don't know if I'll be close enough to attend games next year. I was furious.

At the same time, I can't say that I see Bob being willfully negligent. I can't say that i think he's pinching pennies where it isn't necessary. What, if anything, would I do in his shoes?

He has let football people run the football team. At least that's what I see. When he didn't have it right, he brought in a football mind to fix the situation. I think he's too patient with Kubiak, and maybe Kubiak should be gone... but the first guy to get the team to respectability in the teams history takes a step back.... I don't know if I'd fire him either. I mean in today's "win now or get fired" model look at the teams that follow the fire them after 3 or 4 years... guess what... they wind up doing it with another coach for another 3 or 4 years.

The league is decidedly average. In fact, the entire nfl has a winning percentage of .500 every year. The teams that have been successful long term have done so with continuity. Think the Shanahan era was all roses? Did he suddenly forget how to coach? He coached well in 3 year stints. Look at Dallas. Since Jimmy Johnson left they have had kind of random success. Parcells had one good year there. His first. After that, he never won 10 games again. How many wouldn't kill for Parcells here?

There have been 3 staples of the last 8 years. The Steelers, the Colts, the Pats. Guess what. They've had 2 coaching changes between them.

Now sure they've gotten good coaches, but I can show you a litany off coaches who were great and retired or took time off, then came back and were unable to duplicate their success... and jettisoned after a few years. Did they suddenly forget to coach? Did Gibbs forget? What about Jimmy Johnson? Parcels wasn't the same. There are decidedly average coaches who move on and become great. Think NE is glad that Cleveland gave Billy the boot? Could he have replicated his success if he was kept in Cleveland?

Oh and now someone's going to go all "Mora, Harbaugh, Payton" on me. Can I see your coach and raise you a QB? All three of the overnight success stories include a new QB. And I can show you new QBs that fail.

I guess my point having gone back and looked at franchise records is that the argument for "do you get rid of Kubiak" isn't as cut and dry. Its not "get rid of him you cheap bastard". There is nothing that will increase Mcnair's revenue like winning. I mean look at some of the decisions he could have made.

I tell you what. Since HWWNBN somebody tell me a mistake that has set this team back half a decade. There isn't one. Yeah we haven't gone out and signed the "Surefire" FA. Guess what. We don't have an Albert Haynesworth, Mcnabb, Cromartiesque" disaster on our hands either. In fact name the HUGE FA signings that have made teams better. I'm really curious to see what people come up with. I can think of a few but there are a lot more that worked out like the most recent triplets in Cincy than those that worked out like Montana to KC.

Sorry. Stream of consciousness while looking all over footballreference.com, if it didn't make sense maybe I'll try to put it to music later.

Mike

Lucky
01-31-2011, 07:41 PM
The teams that have been successful long term have done so with continuity.
Why do some teams have continuity? Because they are winning. No one keeps the same organization around when they lose. No one except the Bengals and the Texans, anyway.

CloakNNNdagger
01-31-2011, 08:12 PM
Hopefully for his sake Houston doesn't face a combination of Pittsburgh, Baltimore, New Orleans or Atlanta in the first two games then.


If those are the only teams you think he should be worried about,................you've just probably made Kubiak one happy son of a gun.:kitten:

Rey
01-31-2011, 08:22 PM
Wow...

The more McNair speaks the more I am disappointed with him.

He comes off as a football simpleton.

Rey
01-31-2011, 08:30 PM
Also, the more I hear McNair the more I think Kubiak has done a better job than I've given him credit for.

Honoring Earl 34
01-31-2011, 08:30 PM
Greatest sports talks and a Victoria Secret model .

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/extramustard/hotclicks/01/31/candice-swanepoel-wiz-khalifa-steelers-anthem/index.html?eref=sihp

Carr Bombed
01-31-2011, 08:33 PM
:lol: You know what I'd love to see? A Bob McNair parody of the LeBron James "what should I do" commercial. It would be hilarious.

Texanmike02
01-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Why do some teams have continuity? Because they are winning. No one keeps the same organization around when they lose. No one except the Bengals and the Texans, anyway.

Well its kind of a chicken/egg argument. Has Pittsburgh just been lucky to have 3 amazing coaches in a row for like a 30 year span? Did ownership just pick the right guy?

I will ask again. Is Billy a better coach because he's in the hellhole known as Mass instead of Cleveland? Was the Dungy that was fired by Tampa somehow better as a coach in Indy? Explain Gruden?

Do Indy,NE and Pitt have the only 3 good coaches in the league? Is Harbaugh any good? Fischer was considered great by many. Would you want him here? I believe him to be a decidedly average coach who benefited from continuity. oh, and his first several years.. yeah... VERY average.

If anything, over the last 5 years you can tie a teams success to the QB more than any other player. Without an absolutely awful defense, this is a playoff team.

And maybe firing Kubiak IS the right move. I'm just not sure. If the success of the QB determines the success of the team, all other things being equal... then brining in Phillips and giving Kubiak "Reidesque" responsibilities may very well be the model for success.

Mike

Texanmike02
01-31-2011, 08:35 PM
Wow...

The more McNair speaks the more I am disappointed with him.

He comes off as a football simpleton.

If he's a football simpleton, I'm ok with that. I'd rather have a football simpleton of an owner like Bob Kraft than a football genius like Daniel Snyder.

Its no secret that Bob is learning on the job... as long as he learns, I'm ok with it. I hope he learns that he knows absolutely nothing. That his job is to sign a check and he needs to have football people make football decisions. Then you just hope that you get good football people. (The answer to the question I asked lucky, in my opinion, is that the organizations have good football people in place. They have excellent turnover and groom people well. The owners aren't "football experts"... they hire football experts and keep talent in house. Cincy, Det, Oak, Dallas all have either "expert Owners" or change guys all the time. Neither system works well if you ask me.

Mike

texanchris
01-31-2011, 08:39 PM
Maybe Bob should hire someone to edit what hes going to say before he says it so he doesnt sound like a moron. I mean really, panthers made it to the super bowl and jaguars to the Championship game and he thinks we are better franchise? We have yet to make the playoffs and hardly managed our first winning season. I find it funny how he talks about how bad those 2 teams are now yet the jaguars beat us this season. Granted, it was a fluke play but a win is a win and that unsuccesful jaguars team lately still managed to get 2 more wins than us.

Honoring Earl 34
01-31-2011, 08:46 PM
Well its kind of a chicken/egg argument. Has Pittsburgh just been lucky to have 3 amazing coaches in a row for like a 30 year span? Did ownership just pick the right guy?

I will ask again. Is Billy a better coach because he's in the hellhole known as Mass instead of Cleveland? Was the Dungy that was fired by Tampa somehow better as a coach in Indy? Explain Gruden?

Do Indy,NE and Pitt have the only 3 good coaches in the league? Is Harbaugh any good? Fischer was considered great by many. Would you want him here? I believe him to be a decidedly average coach who benefited from continuity. oh, and his first several years.. yeah... VERY average.

If anything, over the last 5 years you can tie a teams success to the QB more than any other player. Without an absolutely awful defense, this is a playoff team.

And maybe firing Kubiak IS the right move. I'm just not sure. If the success of the QB determines the success of the team, all other things being equal... then brining in Phillips and giving Kubiak "Reidesque" responsibilities may very well be the model for success.

Mike

The Steelers were the laughing stock for their first 50 years or so . Then they hired Chuck Noll who hired scouts to harvest talent from small schools while picking guys like Lynn Swann . They also drafted a 230 lb centers who were 260 in a year .

Whatever they did they established a rich tradition that is still there .

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/roster/1974

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/pitt/steelers.html

CloakNNNdagger
01-31-2011, 08:50 PM
If he's a football simpleton, I'm ok with that. I'd rather have a football simpleton of an owner like Bob Kraft than a football genius like Daniel Snyder.

Its no secret that Bob is learning on the job... as long as he learns, I'm ok with it. I hope he learns that he knows absolutely nothing. That his job is to sign a check and he needs to have football people make football decisions. Then you just hope that you get good football people. (The answer to the question I asked lucky, in my opinion, is that the organizations have good football people in place. They have excellent turnover and groom people well. The owners aren't "football experts"... they hire football experts and keep talent in house. Cincy, Det, Oak, Dallas all have either "expert Owners" or change guys all the time. Neither system works well if you ask me.

Mike

Mike

The difference between Snyder and McNair is that Snyder is a football simpleton who THINKS he is a football expert, while McNair is a football simpleton who KNOWS he is not a football expert. If McNair continues to fail to put the right decision makers in place or allows the decision makers to continue to fail, his team will not fair any better than Snyder's has.

drs23
01-31-2011, 08:57 PM
More than anything, this interview reinforces what a total disaster Casserly was. If there had to be one landmine for McNair to step on, that was it. Dom Capers is in a Superbowl, and Casserly got bitchslapped by Belichick last we heard.

Very true. It's not like he reaps dividends like it's a stock. The only thing that matters when talking about the team's monetary value is cap space.

Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by the bolded? Just asking.

Carr Bombed
01-31-2011, 09:01 PM
Excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by the bolded? Just asking.

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2010/01/04/belichick-and-casserly-going-at-it-again/

Showtime100
01-31-2011, 09:09 PM
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2010/01/04/belichick-and-casserly-going-at-it-again/

Gimme $500.00 on Belichick to win. :photos:

drs23
01-31-2011, 09:24 PM
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2010/01/04/belichick-and-casserly-going-at-it-again/

Thanks much CB.

GP
01-31-2011, 10:06 PM
See, I know I've been changed as a fan (for good I suspect) because I read this article and can't help but think "What an asshole".

I know that's not really what he's like. At least I'm pretty sure it isn't. I understand that he thinks he's doing the right thing and that he wants to win. It's not that he's an asshole. It's that he's far out of his element and that makes him as clueless as you or I would be trying to cut diamonds professionally or performing a triple bypass on someone (assuming none of you do either of jobs for a living, I don't).

I don't believe him. I don't believe in him. I think he does this kind of interview at this time of year because (as Mr. White said) it's time to get people thinking of season tickets for 2011.

When I think about that then I start thinking he's an asshole.

Probably the best post I've read on here in a month.

And I think you wrote the one a month ago that I am referring to.

Every coach who comes to this franchise has to lie and say they can "get it done with the player(s) already here..." so that's been the most honest valuation of this team to date. Even Capers falls into this description, because he got screwed with a shitty expansion draft except for Gary Walker and Seth Payne (meh, throw in Aaron Glenn too. Three players out of the whole damn thing).

LOL. This team was screwed in the beginning, via a poor expansion draft pool, and now McNair (out of fear) is screwing himself. Brilliantly played. But hey, it's "not just about financial success. No sir."

McNair, shovel, manure, mushrooms. I'm noticing a pattern here.

Texan4Ever
01-31-2011, 10:27 PM
Probably the best post I've read on here in a month.

And I think you wrote the one a month ago that I am referring to.

Every coach who comes to this franchise has to lie and say they can "get it done with the player(s) already here..." so that's been the most honest valuation of this team to date. Even Capers falls into this description, because he got screwed with a shitty expansion draft except for Gary Walker and Seth Payne (meh, throw in Aaron Glenn too. Three players out of the whole damn thing).

LOL. This team was screwed in the beginning, via a poor expansion draft pool, and now McNair (out of fear) is screwing himself. Brilliantly played. But hey, it's "not just about financial success. No sir."

McNair, shovel, manure, mushrooms. I'm noticing a pattern here.



Dukes on some Houston radio sports show was saying the Texans got screwed over by the league because of new expansion team rules that didn't apply to Carolina or Jaxy back when they came into the league. He also said what you said, the team got started off in the wrong direction from its inception.

JB
01-31-2011, 10:54 PM
Maybe Bob should hire someone to edit what hes going to say before he says it so he doesnt sound like a moron. I mean really, panthers made it to the super bowl and jaguars to the Championship game and he thinks we are better franchise? We have yet to make the playoffs and hardly managed our first winning season. I find it funny how he talks about how bad those 2 teams are now yet the jaguars beat us this season. Granted, it was a fluke play but a win is a win and that unsuccesful jaguars team lately still managed to get 2 more wins than us.

I do believe that Bob was pointing out the discrepancies in what the expansion teams were given.

Texanmike02
01-31-2011, 11:21 PM
I thought about this for a while. I don't think anyone here can claim to have enough knowledge to know how to fix the team. I don't think any of us have enough staked in the game to have a comparable concern about winning as Mcnair either.

The reality is, there are some people who would scream for Cowher, some for Fischer, some for Gruden and some for Kubiak. If Mcnair hires any of them.. 75% would have an "I told you so" card in their pocket. If 3, 4 or 5 years into a Cowher, Gruden or Fisher campaign, we were 8-8 or 9-7 (which all three of those coaches finished SEVERAL times... 75% would carry their card in and say "haa... Mcnair is an *****".

The same people who wanted Bodden, Haynesworth, Adam Pacman Jones et al have somehow determined that Mcnair is a tightwad for not signing their guy. The people who want the coaches fired and/or hired... think they could have finished it.

Personally I hope that Mcnair doesn't listen to the fans at all. I hope he puts football guys in position to make football decisions. If he had listened to fans we'd have just gotten rid of our number 1 overall pick. That or we'd have an over-hyped scat back with a fumbling problem. If he listens to football people eventually it'll get done right. When that happens, don't go all Jerrah on us and fire your "Jimmy Johnson".

Either way... Go Texans.

Mike

JCTexan
02-01-2011, 01:10 AM
If those are the only teams you think he should be worried about,................you've just probably made Kubiak one happy son of a gun.:kitten:

Not what I was trying to indicate. Just that those four teams will likely be the toughest opponents on the schedule next year. If 0-2 means Kubiak's screwed then hopefully the toughest teams on the schedule aren't at the beginning of it. Houston was 4-2 at the beginning of the year, but they collapsed during the toughest part of their schedule.

Texans_Chick
02-01-2011, 06:07 AM
Dukes on some Houston radio sports show was saying the Texans got screwed over by the league because of new expansion team rules that didn't apply to Carolina or Jaxy back when they came into the league. He also said what you said, the team got started off in the wrong direction from its inception.

That's just part of it.

When Jax/Carolina came into the league, teams had not yet figured out how to keep their best players under the salary cap. Most teams were in salary cap hades, but the Panthers and Jags had no bad contracts because they were new, and had lots of money to spend.

The Texans tried to get more draft picks, but the NFL, unhappy with the early success of Panthers/Jags, wanted no part of it.

The best players the Texans got through the expansion draft was all about taking bad contracts off the hands of other teams--otherwise, those teams wouldn't expose good players.

Ultimately, I think people are so unhappy with what has happened with the team that they miss the fundamental thing McNair was saying...which is winning matters and Forbes valuations mean nothing if you aren't selling the team (and he claims they are not accurate). When you are mad at how things are going, you tend to read things in the worst possible way.

The comments about not having owner mentors from the beginning is weird though.

Lucky
02-01-2011, 07:39 AM
Charley Casserly and Dom Capers have been gone for 5 years. It's past time to stop blaming them for what's wrong with the Texans today. It's not the NFL's tougher expansion rules that are crux of the Texans problems. That was 9 years ago.

The problem is that the guy at the top doesn't know how to run the football side of a NFL franchise. Still. Sure, McNair's making money hand over fist. Mike Brown and the Bengals can do that. But producing winning teams on the field? Bob hasn't a clue.

What need to happen is for McNair to step away from the football side completely, much like the Cowboys original owner Clint Murchison had done. Hire the very best football guy available and let him run the organization in total. McNair would have one decision point Is the guy I hired to run the organization getting the job done? I don't know how McNair made his $millions (or $billions). But, it doesn't translate to winning in the NFL. Bob McNair needs to come to the realization that the problem is Bob McNair.

JB
02-01-2011, 07:51 AM
Charley Casserly and Dom Capers have been gone for 5 years. It's past time to stop blaming them for what's wrong with the Texans today. It's not the NFL's tougher expansion rules that are crux of the Texans problems. That was 9 years ago.

The problem is that the guy at the top doesn't know how to run the football side of a NFL franchise. Still. Sure, McNair's making money hand over fist. Mike Brown and the Bengals can do that. But producing winning teams on the field? Bob hasn't a clue.

What need to happen is for McNair to step away from the football side completely, much like the Cowboys original owner Clint Murchison had done. Hire the very best football guy available and let him run the organization in total. McNair would have one decision point Is the guy I hired to run the organization getting the job done? I don't know how McNair made his $millions (or $billions). But, it doesn't translate to winning in the NFL. Bob McNair needs to come to the realization that the problem is Bob McNair.

You don't think that McNair is involved in football operations do you?

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 09:19 AM
Interesting read. I found this part to be enlightening:

In retrospect, he admits he wishes he'd sought the counsel of his experienced peers, but at the time there was a pretty good reason why he chose not to.

"I'd been negotiating with them over the price of the team," McNair said.

"They were trying to get as high a price as they could, and I was trying to get a reasonable price," he said. "After you've gone through that, you're not real confident talking to those folks and asking for advice - not after they've just finished trying to take every nickel you have.

"I mean, how much could I trust them? I had to learn who would be honest and candid with me. That took some time."

I have always been under the impression that he sought their advice in the beginning, but this paints an entirely different picture.

I do not question his desire to win. To me, at least, that's a no brainer. You spend a billion on a football team, you damn sure want to win. However, that being said, I think the learning curve and loyalty issues have really cost him in the past 9 seasons. Hopefully his decisions pay off in 2011 (provided there's a season, of course). A decade of futility is good for nobody in this city, owner included.

He did talk to other owners about several things. But the things he mentioned specifically, I think it was pretty obvious that he was going by what Casserly was telling him, "you're going to have to overpay to get decent talent in Houston, to win."

Which more or less is true. I have no problem with overpaying for elite talent. But we were overpaying for average/below average folks (Weaver, & everyone before him.).

Then when Kubiak came in, you could see how much influence he had in all kinds of aspects of running this team. Things most head coaches have no say in, much less a first timer.

So when he talked to other people, they signed off on Capers (which I thought was a good idea), & they signed off on Casserly (which I think was the real problem, the biggest problem.... not that I wanted Capers to be here any longer). & McNair let them do their business. but he found out how full of shit Casserly was when Kubiak got here.

IMO, McNair's talk about not going backwards, is pretty much about writing off the first 4 years, where we basically went backwards. You can't say, "If we had done this, or we had done that, then .... " He knows it doesn't work that way. We've got to look at what we have now & move forward.

The decision to go with a first time head coach & a first time GM is probably the decision he is talking about most there.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 09:40 AM
Hey Bob? Prove me wrong and sign Namdi! That'll show me how wrong I am!

I double dog dare ya!!

The Cincinnati Bengals have had more success than we've had over the last 9 years. Yet the only "big name" FAs they are able to land are guys like Terrell Owens & Cedric Benson.

My point, is that there will be a number of teams trying to get Namdi Asomugha on their roster, offering as much money as we will. Why would he come here? I personally don't know that would be a good measuring stick for "Bob" to prove you're wrong.

Johnathan Joseph... maybe.

The only thing that really bothers me about what we've done in FA, is that we're not very active. Perhaps they are doing their due dilligence & bringing in the best that they can, but I'd like to see them bring in more numbers. Get 6 corners in here, work them all out. Get some bodies for training camp & if they are as good as Molden, you keep him, cut Molden... or Okam (don't wait till the season starts to try to fill your roster)... or Anderson (who I do like) or Slaton, or Studdard, or Barber, etc... those guys aren't helping us win anyhow. Get them competing for their jobs.

But that's me.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 10:12 AM
And where does McNair get off on criticizing Carolina or Jacksonville? Those franchises have yet to win championships, but both have had tangible success. The Texans have attained squat.

I don't know if it was criticism, or just observation. It's not like he said they don't know how to run a franchise or build a team, or anything like that.

He said they had success early, but wouldn't want to be in the position they are in now. Doesn't mean that he wouldn't like to have had that kind of success.

Jacksonville can't give away tickets & are talking about moving.

The Panthers are where we were 5 years ago.

Just saying, I don't think it's criticism.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 10:31 AM
I mean in today's "win now or get fired" model look at the teams that follow the fire them after 3 or 4 years... guess what... they wind up doing it with another coach for another 3 or 4 years.

There have been 3 staples of the last 8 years. The Steelers, the Colts, the Pats. Guess what. They've had 2 coaching changes between them.

Think NE is glad that Cleveland gave Billy the boot? Could he have replicated his success if he was kept in Cleveland?


Mike

I think those are prime examples, that it's not just about the coach. The Steelers are rolling to two SuperBowl wins under their new head coach Mike Tomlin in what? 3 years? Is he a better coach than Cowher?

I don't think so. I believe the organization finally got it together on all cylinders & Tomlin is reaping the benefits. Don't take that to mean that Tomlin isn't a good coach, he's definitely part of those winning ways.

I don't believe Belichick would have been able to have that same success in Cleveland. Totally different organization, with a lot of things that needs to be worked out, same thing here.

Bringing Belichick to Houston 5 years ago, doesn't mean we would have had the success the Patriots have had over the last 9 years. More success than we've had most likely.

But that's the way the "buddy system" works. Belichick was a "familiar" choice for the Patriots. That's why he got the job, not because of his "success" in Cleveland as a head coach.

Too much credit, too much blame.... that's the life of an NFL head coach.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 10:37 AM
Maybe Bob should hire someone to edit what hes going to say before he says it so he doesnt sound like a moron. I mean really, panthers made it to the super bowl and jaguars to the Championship game and he thinks we are better franchise?

Perhaps you should take your own advice. We are a better franchise than both of them. We sell out our home games (up to date that is), we're the 9th most valuable franchise in the world, 6th in the NFl.

They have had more success on the field than we have, I won't argue that. McNair wouldn't & hasn't.

But we're definitely a better franchise.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 10:59 AM
Charley Casserly and Dom Capers have been gone for 5 years. It's past time to stop blaming them for what's wrong with the Texans today. It's not the NFL's tougher expansion rules that are crux of the Texans problems. That was 9 years ago.

The problem is that the guy at the top doesn't know how to run the football side of a NFL franchise. Still. Sure, McNair's making money hand over fist. Mike Brown and the Bengals can do that. But producing winning teams on the field? Bob hasn't a clue.

What need to happen is for McNair to step away from the football side completely, much like the Cowboys original owner Clint Murchison had done. Hire the very best football guy available and let him run the organization in total. McNair would have one decision point Is the guy I hired to run the organization getting the job done? I don't know how McNair made his $millions (or $billions). But, it doesn't translate to winning in the NFL. Bob McNair needs to come to the realization that the problem is Bob McNair.

Wow... I completely & absolutely agree with this.

More than anything, I wanted McNair to hire a VP of football operations to do just this.

That didn't happen. I'm still hoping there is more to the Rick Smith story to come.

Texecutioner
02-01-2011, 11:19 AM
Lot of the same tired excuses being thrown around for Mcnair in this thread. He can talk all the talk he wants and smile for the cameras when he says what he thinks fans want to hear, but his actions have been anything but the actions of an owner that seeks a championship as his bottom line. When he goes out and spends the cash on some real football execs that have a winning track record instead of saying that we're on the right track on a 6-10 season while he keeps the same HC and GM, then I might believe that his objectives and goals have changed as an owner. Until then, this is nothing but bait for season ticket holders that are probably slowly dropping off.

Second Honeymoon
02-01-2011, 11:37 AM
Perhaps you should take your own advice. We are a better franchise than both of them. We sell out our home games (up to date that is), we're the 9th most valuable franchise in the world, 6th in the NFl.

They have had more success on the field than we have, I won't argue that. McNair wouldn't & hasn't.

But we're definitely a better franchise.

thats like saying the Cubs are better than the White Sox because they sell more tickets and are worth more money. money does not a franchis make.

winning makes a franchise and we are bottom of the barrel when it comes to that. maybe detroit is below us but that is about it.

Double Barrel
02-01-2011, 11:47 AM
I tell you what. Since HWWNBN somebody tell me a mistake that has set this team back half a decade. There isn't one.


Hiring a first time head coach and letting him pick an inexperienced GM and crappy DC, is a start.

According to a blog by Texans Chick, that first time DC produced this:

According to Football Outsiders stats, the Texans defense under Smith's tenure was ranked as follows:

2006: 31st
2007: 30th
2008: 29th

So they finally fire the guy. Do they bring in a bonafide PROVEN DC? Of course not. They bring in another FOG (friend of Gary) and first time DC, who proved to be even worse of a coach than his predecessor.

This is all on Bob.

So that's some big mistakes right there that has given us several years of mediocre results.

What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.

This is about setting a standard for excellence that becomes the be all/end all of running a football franchise. If the end goal is not putting the BEST available at every position in the organization, from GM, scouts, trainers, coaches, etc., then the results will not be an annual drive through the playoffs. If loyalty to employees is higher than the quest for excellence, you end up with perpetual mediocrity, otherwise known as the Houston Texans.

It is this aspect that separates the great teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, from team like the Texans. How many of these teams would hire Rick Smith as their GM? Short of the Lions, Bengals, or Browns, I'd be willing to bet not many.

steelbtexan
02-01-2011, 12:36 PM
I'm not buying the he's still learning on the job BS.

He's been learning on the job for a decade now. If McNair hasn't learned by now he never will. Or maybe profit is all that's important to him. After all it's season ticket renewal time.

The funny thing is the Texans are hitting us up for ticket $$$$ and chances are there is going to be a lockout led by one Robert C. McNair. But BoB will still have our $$$$ in his bank collecting interest. Along with the TV $$$$ that he's going to receive regardless if there's a lockout or not.

But yeah lets give BoB a pass because making 750 mil while learning on the job has been great for the fans so far hasn't it.

Lets face it this team is never going to be a winner as long as BoB is running it. Maybe one day Cal will take over and he will put winning 1st and foremost. But if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree the Texans will become the Lions,Bungles,Browns etc... of the NFL.

That's a scary thought.

Dishman
02-01-2011, 12:41 PM
Perhaps you should take your own advice. We are a better franchise than both of them. We sell out our home games (up to date that is), we're the 9th most valuable franchise in the world, 6th in the NFl.

They have had more success on the field than we have, I won't argue that. McNair wouldn't & hasn't.

But we're definitely a better franchise.

And winning is really all that matters. Much more than any valuation of dollars or ranking in the NFL based on, well, anything aside from winning. I don't watch or root for the Texans because they make their owner a shitload of money.

I'm not so sure we are head-and-shoulders above those other teams.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2011, 01:14 PM
All you have to do is look at the 2006 draft .

1. Texans .... a mediocre team at best .
2. Saints ... Won a Super Bowl
3. Titans ... see Texans
4. Jets ... been to the last to AFC championships
5. Packers ... in the Super Bowl
6-12 ... stink
13. Ravens ... playoffs
14. Eagles playoffs

Hervoyel
02-01-2011, 02:04 PM
Hiring a first time head coach and letting him pick an inexperienced GM and crappy DC, is a start.

According to a blog by Texans Chick, that first time DC produced this:



So they finally fire the guy. Do they bring in a bonafide PROVEN DC? Of course not. They bring in another FOG (friend of Gary) and first time DC, who proved to be even worse of a coach than his predecessor.

This is all on Bob.

So that's some big mistakes right there that has given us several years of mediocre results.

What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.

This is about setting a standard for excellence that becomes the be all/end all of running a football franchise. If the end goal is not putting the BEST available at every position in the organization, from GM, scouts, trainers, coaches, etc., then the results will not be an annual drive through the playoffs. If loyalty to employees is higher than the quest for excellence, you end up with perpetual mediocrity, otherwise known as the Houston Texans.

It is this aspect that separates the great teams like the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, from team like the Texans. How many of these teams would hire Rick Smith as their GM? Short of the Lions, Bengals, or Browns, I'd be willing to bet not many.


Must spread rep but this is dead-on accurate. BONNNGGGG!

This is of Bob's making and he's still making the (Copyright 2002-2011, Houston Texans) "Same. Stupid. Mistakes." and what's worse is you can see them from a mile away.

You or I literally could have drafted better than the Texans did in their first 4 years by reading some draft magazines and going with the biggest names remaining on the board in each round. Not hindsight 20/20 shit, just picking the players who had some reasonable degree of name-recognition and calling it a day. I sure as hell couldn't have done worse using that method.

You or I literally could have hired a better head coach by spending a few days reading NFL.com to bone up on who was out there and not working AND we could have done that BOTH TIMES. Dom ****ing Capers? Gary ****ing Kubiak? Are you kidding me? These assistants Gary has foisted off on McNair as the best men for the job again and again are just the icing on the cake.

And we can see this as clear as day. We saw it when it happened but because we're all good little fans who close ranks and hope for the best we all cross our fingers and hope for the best. It doesn't change anything though. Bob's team is a bad joke that nobody laughs at and that everybody sees coming.

Since the day the wheels started obviously coming off of Dom Capers Texans in 2005 every move this team has made has been greeted with hope and trepidation because as bad as we want to believe we all know that there's something wrong with a team that needs help this badly and can only find guys like Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, and all their assorted cronies and "payback hires" to straighten it out. We need players and we draft projects. We need players and we sign junk free agents who underperform. We need players and we sign other teams castoffs from the street (and then watch them outperform our projects and junk free agents).

Every single person who spoke about the Ahman Green signing knew in the bottom of their hearts that the Texans had just thrown money away. Just flushed it down the toilet and in the process wasted two years trying to force that gimpy old has-been and his lousy stand-ins (Dayne & Brown) down our throats.

Our offense has played well (if inconsistently) which I don't mean to dismiss entirely but we hit on players so rarely I can't help but assume that we do so out of sheer dumb luck. What would Gary Kubiak have here today if Andre Johnson hadn't fallen to Charlie Casserly (and we're lucky he didn't find a way to screw that up) and Arian Foster hadn't been overlooked by every team in the NFL (including the Texans)?

What would the Texans be without those two players? Matt Schaub without AJ is nobody. Look how many times Gary couldn't find a running back in his first four seasons and tell me he just knew somehow that Foster was the answer. Now do it with a straight face.

McNair is in more dire need of proven football people than any owner in the NFL but he's committed to his boy Gary. They deserve each other because neither one ever seems to learn a damn thing. The thing is Texans fans don't deserve them.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 03:14 PM
What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those jobs.


Defensively we've had this problem for quite some time. Way before Kubiak...

just an observation.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 03:38 PM
You or I literally could have drafted better than the Texans did in their first 4 years by reading some draft magazines and going with the biggest names remaining on the board in each round. Not hindsight 20/20 shit, just picking the players who had some reasonable degree of name-recognition and calling it a day. I sure as hell couldn't have done worse using that method.

This is the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit. In last years draft alone, had we taken McCourty & the Patriots took Jackson, which one do you think would be more likely to go to the Pro Bowl? & it's more probably that the Houston Texans fans would still be cying about starting a rookie with no veteran mentor on the team.

Same thing going back to the 2002 draft, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here.

Double Barrel
02-01-2011, 04:16 PM
Defensively we've had this problem for quite some time. Way before Kubiak...

just an observation.

Then what does that tell you?

It tells me that the owner does not hire the best qualified people for the jobs.

We do not know what qualifications he bases hiring coaches, trainers, and FO personnel, but it's certainly not the best qualified people available. That is quite obvious.

Vinny said a lot comes down to Bobby Grier, associate director of pro scouting. When he was fired by the Patriots, they started collecting a lot of talent and winning Super Bowls. Grier has been with the Texans since the beginning. Hmmmmm.... :thinking:

I always hoped that McNair would hire Scott Pioli as GM. Years go by and Kansas City finally did, and look how quickly things are turning around for them.

I assume McNair wants to win. But losing doesn't seem to bother him as much as other owners, because there's always next year!

disaacks3
02-01-2011, 04:55 PM
Probably the best post I've read on here in a month.

And I think you wrote the one a month ago that I am referring to.

Every coach who comes to this franchise has to lie and say they can "get it done with the player(s) already here..." so that's been the most honest valuation of this team to date. Even Capers falls into this description, because he got screwed with a shitty expansion draft except for Gary Walker and Seth Payne (meh, throw in Aaron Glenn too. Three players out of the whole damn thing).

LOL. This team was screwed in the beginning, via a poor expansion draft pool, and now McNair (out of fear) is screwing himself. Brilliantly played. But hey, it's "not just about financial success. No sir."

McNair, shovel, manure, mushrooms. I'm noticing a pattern here. Do you think if McNair heard Cowher was the best available, interviewed him, and Cowher said the Texans needed an overhaul that McNair wouldn't listen?

The reality is, there are some people who would scream for Cowher, some for Fischer, some for Gruden and some for Kubiak. If Mcnair hires any of them.. 75% would have an "I told you so" card in their pocket. If 3, 4 or 5 years into a Cowher, Gruden or Fisher campaign, we were 8-8 or 9-7 (which all three of those coaches finished SEVERAL times... 75% would carry their card in and say "haa... Mcnair is an *****". Mike The difference is, McNair has NEVER gotten the "Best Coach avaialble", by anyone's standard. Even w/ Capers, he got the "Best guy to shepherd an expansion team" at BEST.

While 2nd-guessing is old hat for message boards, it's a hell of a lot easier to defend the guy with a great track record. (a reason why hiring Wade as DC is hard to argue)

Hervoyel
02-01-2011, 05:52 PM
This is the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit. In last years draft alone, had we taken McCourty & the Patriots took Jackson, which one do you think would be more likely to go to the Pro Bowl? & it's more probably that the Houston Texans fans would still be cying about starting a rookie with no veteran mentor on the team.

Same thing going back to the 2002 draft, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here.

No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 07:09 PM
You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team...

Let's keep them above the waist..... okay?

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... .

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

Detroit did the same thing, & their guy wasn't even good looking.



That doesn't really help my argument does it

houstonspartan
02-01-2011, 07:44 PM
No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

Dude, you have to learn to disregard Thunder's posts. They are always middle-of-the-road comments that he says to make us THINK he's being open minded, when in truth they're apologistic musings of why the Texans are great.

Hervoyel
02-01-2011, 08:16 PM
Let's keep them above the waist..... okay?


Detroit did the same thing, & their guy wasn't even good looking.



That doesn't really help my argument does it

They didn't actually do the same thing. They at least had a previously existing offensive line not populated by expansion draft picks and rookies.

Ok, granted their line was made up of mostly Detroit Lions draft picks which could arguably be considered almost as bad but still, I assert that Detroit had more business drafting a QB than the Texans did.

I seriously believe that a majority of casual fans given a minimal amount of time to prepare could have drafted no worse and quite possibly much better than the 2002-2005 Texans "brain trust".

You knock the 2002 draft right out of the park by taking Peppers over Carr. That one pick all by itself turns a resounding "F" into at least a passing grade even if all the other picks stayed the same. Taking the Miami(FL) RB over Jabar Gaffney not only recovers the pick we wasted on Gaffney, it also keeps us from throwing a 2003 second round pick away in a desperation move for Tony Hollings. I have never understood the decision to take Carr & Gaffney over Peppers and Portis. I (along with plenty of others) didn't like it at the time but did we ***** and moan and raise hell? Of course not. We were all one big happy family following Bob around and listening to talking heads pondering whether or not this was going to be the best expansion franchise of all time. I understand that you think it's revisionist history to point to it now but I remember clearly being concerned that we weren't doing exactly what Bob/Charlie/Dom said we'd do (build the lines first - referring to the Peppers pick here). I remember thinking "Portis is right there! TAKE HIM!"

I remember a lot of that kind of thing. Stuff like "Wilfork is right there! TAKE HIM!", "What in the hell do we need a left handed rookie QB for?", and who could forget "You traded the entire heart of our draft first day for Jason WHO?"

My personal favorite though was "DERRICK JOHNSON! HE'S THERE! WAIT, WHAT? TRADED DOWN? FUUUUUUUUUUU!"

My point isn't that you or I can look back at these drafts and find better players knowing what we know now. My point is that we knew the Texans were screwing the pooch then. We just didn't face that because to do so meant we were being negative and disloyal.

Emperor. Right over there. Naked.

I'm ashamed to say I saw he didn't have any clothes on at the time and made myself believe otherwise.

I'm afraid you're still trying to convince people that he must have something on.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 09:20 PM
nevermind

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 09:29 PM
My point isn't that you or I can look back at these drafts and find better players knowing what we know now. My point is that we knew the Texans were screwing the pooch then. We just didn't face that because to do so meant we were being negative and disloyal.

Emperor. Right over there. Naked.

I'm ashamed to say I saw he didn't have any clothes on at the time and made myself believe otherwise.

I'm afraid you're still trying to convince people that he must have something on.

My bad..... if this is your point, I completely understand. Good point.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 09:44 PM
nvm

GP
02-01-2011, 10:28 PM
I assume McNair wants to win. But losing doesn't seem to bother him as much as other owners, because there's always next year!

AND...other owners embrace him and dry his tears after the Ravens almost-come-from-behind-win-that-ends-as-a-loss game.

Side note: Herv is tearing the hell out of this forum this week. I mean, he's opened up a huge lead and the nearest horse is 20-something lengths behind him.

CloakNNNdagger
02-01-2011, 10:46 PM
I almost fell over when I saw the comparison of the Texans' choice of Carr at #1 with Detroit's choice. I guess we have now escalated our sights to comparing ourselves to the "established NFL elite".........I guess.:rake:

GP
02-01-2011, 10:52 PM
Next year, Bob will go on record as saying that it will be Intergalactic Championship or bust.

The guy keeps raising the stakes with chips he doesn't have.

Dishman
02-01-2011, 11:44 PM
Next year, Bob will go on record as saying that it will be Intergalactic Championship or bust.

The guy keeps raising the stakes with chips he doesn't have.

If this comes true then your signature could be considered prophetic.

thunderkyss
02-01-2011, 11:45 PM
I almost fell over when I saw the comparison of the Texans' choice of Carr at #1 with Detroit's choice. I guess we have now escalated our sights to comparing ourselves to the "established NFL elite".........I guess.:rake:

It was meant to be sarcastic.... He said "no one in their right mind." After my Detroit comment I posted some fine print to convey the sarcasm.

Sorry you missed it, I'll try harder.

GP
02-02-2011, 08:47 AM
If this comes true then your signature could be considered prophetic.

HA! You're right.

It is a prophecy of our destiny. We will rule outer space.

Mr teX
02-02-2011, 10:37 AM
No it's not the definition of hindsight 20/20 shit, though I can certainly see why you would feel that way and would expect nothing less than that response from you. You're a disgusting apologist for this owner and team and the only time you ever sound even remotely realistic is when you're trying to lay down a semi-solid foundation for your next Texans excuse.

Nobody in their right mind picks David Carr over Julius Peppers to be the first pick of an expansion team.... particularly following the glaring example that had just been made of Tim Couch in Cleveland under the exact same circumstances. No, David Carr wasn't that P.O.S. that left Houston when he got here. He was just an incredibly bad decision for this team at that time.

Lead off with a rookie QB who you can't protect because he's charismatic and loves him some Jesus. "Face of the franchise" indeed.

I disagree there hervy. For 1, Carr was thought to be a top pick to begin with.. 2, There's a reason qb's bust more than any other position in the 1st round & that's b/c it's the most important position on the field & franchise qb's are tough to come by...but if you get 1...you're set for 10 years. For those few reasons alone i have to believe that most any other team regardless of whether or not they were an expansion franchise or not would've done the same thing we did & took Carr. Were there some who would've taken peppers over carr? Of Course, but the allure of possibly landing the franchise qb i think would've been too much for any team in need of a qb to resist.


Starting him from day 1 when it was apparent we couldn't protect him on the other hand......that's another story.

Texanmike02
02-02-2011, 12:40 PM
I disagree there hervy. For 1, Carr was thought to be a top pick to begin with.. 2, There's a reason qb's bust more than any other position in the 1st round & that's b/c it's the most important position on the field & franchise qb's are tough to come by...but if you get 1...you're set for 10 years. For those few reasons alone i have to believe that most any other team regardless of whether or not they were an expansion franchise or not would've done the same thing we did & took Carr. Were there some who would've taken peppers over carr? Of Course, but the allure of possibly landing the franchise qb i think would've been too much for any team in need of a qb to resist.


Starting him from day 1 when it was apparent we couldn't protect him on the other hand......that's another story.

You make a very valid point. QB is the only position on the field where you can't really afford to have 2 or 3 players that excel at one thing. Unless you have a Mike Vick or maybe the wildcat you must find one guy that does everything. You know you can bring in a passrushing specialist.. or a run guy in certain situations... but you can't bring in a deep ball specialist.

Sometimes reading this thread you get the impression that Bob is out there wondering how he can put a bad team on the field and still make money. I doubt there is anyone in the NFL who wants to put a bad product on the field. The truth of the matter is everyone is trying to build a winner. There are 32 teams that are influenced by forces mostly outside their control. In essence you are competing with 32 other puzzle builers for the same pieces to build your own version of a puzzle. And honestly the analogy doesn't make much sense becaue building a football team is complicated. Its just frustrating to watch people talk about Bob like he put more money than you or I will see in our lives out.. and he set out to try and lose games and still make money.



Mike

TheCD
02-02-2011, 12:47 PM
What is clearly and painfully obvious is that players do not improve when they become Texans. The successful teams have a FO, training staff, and coaches that bring in good talent (scouting dept.) and improve these players (coaches, trainers). We have not seen any noticeable improvement in these areas, and from what we can gather on the outside looking in, McNair is very loyal to his employees, to the point that he will not let them go to be replaced with better people at those

Are you strictly speaking about FAs or draft picks, too?

Matt Schaub? Has he not improved since being here? Andre is the same player he was when he was drafted? Kevin Walter? Dominick Davis during his playing days? Was Steve Slaton not improved before he had the neck injury? DeMeco? Zac Diles?

What constitutes improvement? I see players all over the league have roller coaster years. I just want to get on the same page here. I am in no way saying the team is doing an excellent job in terms of scouting, but I think that when they find talent, that talent definitely improves. I feel our WRs have probably the best coaching in the league, but that doesn't mean they are the most talented (with the exception of AJ of course). Our o-line definitely improved in the running game this year, is that not in the same category you're using?

I really feel our lack of talent comes from scouting. I think the coaching is there, and it seems that we always either try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or find a marginal talent that would be great as a backup, coach him up a little and expect him to be the answer to that positions glaring needs.

Second Honeymoon
02-02-2011, 12:52 PM
Are you strictly speaking about FAs or draft picks, too?

Matt Schaub? Has he not improved since being here? Andre is the same player he was when he was drafted? Kevin Walter? Dominick Davis during his playing days? Was Steve Slaton not improved before he had the neck injury? DeMeco? Zac Diles?

What constitutes improvement? I see players all over the league have roller coaster years. I just want to get on the same page here. I am in no way saying the team is doing an excellent job in terms of scouting, but I think that when they find talent, that talent definitely improves. I feel our WRs have probably the best coaching in the league, but that doesn't mean they are the most talented (with the exception of AJ of course). Our o-line definitely improved in the running game this year, is that not in the same category you're using?

I really feel our lack of talent comes from scouting. I think the coaching is there, and it seems that we always either try to fit a square peg in a round hole, or find a marginal talent that would be great as a backup, coach him up a little and expect him to be the answer to that positions glaring needs.

what makes you say 'the coaching is there'?

we have had 5 years and it has clearly shown us the coaching is NOT there. Nothing coaching-wise shows us that the coaching is there. Some is there, as in yeah the offense is ok.

TheCD
02-02-2011, 12:58 PM
what makes you say 'the coaching is there'?

we have had 5 years and it has clearly shown us the coaching is NOT there. Nothing coaching-wise shows us that the coaching is there. Some is there, as in yeah the offense is ok.

I would say that the offense is more than ok. I am with you in certain areas that are coaching is deficient in, but I think it is more than disingenuous to say our coaching is not there. If our coaching was that bad, then there wouldn't be any hope of us being competitive in as many games as we were throughout the year. However, the coaching could definitely use an upgrade.

steelbtexan
02-02-2011, 03:26 PM
5-7 four yrs in a row,

Yeah BoB is committed to winning a championship. LOL

Tailgate
02-02-2011, 04:56 PM
Committed to winning a championship and knowing how to do so are two different things.

I honestly do not doubt his commitment.

steelbtexan
02-02-2011, 05:27 PM
Committed to winning a championship and knowing how to do so are two different things.

I honestly do not doubt his commitment.

History says otherwise, what has BoB done to make you not question his Commitment.

He says a championship is all that matters. The same week that season ticket renewals are going out to his season ticket holders. Coincedence, I think not.

BoB cant be this bad at putting a terrible product on the field after a decade of owning this team. If BoB was as dumb as you make him out to be there's no way his other businesses would have been successful enough to be able to have the $$$$ to buy the team in the 1st place.

It's all part of the con BoB puts on the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS.

I know you wont change your mind. if 4 straight 5-7 starts to the season and not firing Gary isn't enough to make you realize that your being conned nothing will.

Koolaid is good.

Double Barrel
02-02-2011, 05:48 PM
Matt Schaub? Has he not improved since being here? Andre is the same player he was when he was drafted? Kevin Walter? Dominick Davis during his playing days? Was Steve Slaton not improved before he had the neck injury? DeMeco? Zac Diles?


Schaub I'll grant you. And that should be the case with a HC who was a former NFL QB, QB coach, and OC.

But Walter? I like the guy, but what constitutes improvement? His numbers have dropped every year since the 2007 season.

How about Jacoby Jones? Dude has definitely not improved, and it could be argued that he's regressing.

AJ is a beast. Dude was a beast when he got here. He actually made HWWNBN look like a somewhat competent QB. He's the kind of HoF player that would just improve on his own, regardless of team or coaches. Legendary players have a habit of being that way.

DD? One good year. Perhaps better trainers could have helped improve his performance after his injury? Who knows, pure speculation, but you can't argue that he improved.

Slaton? Dude, please. He can't even be a good kick returner, much less an average RB right now. How many teams would have him start? Or backup? Hes barely third on our roster, and hes a healthy Tate away from being jettisoned altogether.

How about Cushing? Shell of who he was as a rookie. The same could be said about Ryans, a Rookie of the Year that has not lived up to the potential that most folks have seen in him. Still a solid player, but not reaching the greatness that was predicted and expected of him.

Heck, you can pretty much take anyone from the defense and make a solid case that they regressed in 2010. It's not hard to do when the D is ranked at historical lows.

We can play this game all day, though. And that's the point. A case can be made, either way, some more convincing for either side depending on the player. But, it is clear that it is not such a huge improvement that it's a no brainer. The fact that it can be legitimately argued from both sides supports my point.

Wolf
02-02-2011, 06:00 PM
I'll have to give the offensive side their due.
how much turnover has there been since Kubiak?

Calhoun, sherman, shanahan,Dennison?

and their has been some stability however the offense was sporadic.

Defensively.the Texans tried to go cheap (well did) the Texans have never had a strong figure on that side of the ball... (I have no idea what Ray Rhodes job really was) ... I don't know what Kubiak was thinking there.

His buddy system on the offense has been good, too bad the buddy system on the defensive side has countered that.

here to change with Wade coming in !
f
and for whatever reason.. when players come to the Texans, after their first year here, their play goes backwards ... yeah, that is coaching

thunderkyss
02-02-2011, 06:11 PM
I know you wont change your mind. if 4 straight 5-7 starts to the season and not firing Gary isn't enough to make you realize that your being conned nothing will.

Koolaid is good.

That's just stupid.

steelbtexan
02-02-2011, 07:06 PM
That's just stupid.

What's stupid?

If a HC goes 5-7 four yrs in a row and doesn't get fired. What will get him fired? I refuse to believe it is taking Billionaire BoB over a decade to figure out how to run a championship quality football team.

After four 5-7 starts in a row winning a championship isn't a priority for BoB and probably never was. Look at the HC's and their staffs that they had. That tells me winning isn't that important to BoB. If it was Kubiak would've been fired after the 2009 cupcake schedule/Browns' fiasco.

The marketing arm is all that BoB cares about. Or Larry Johnson would've been a Texan. Schobel really wanted to play for the Texans in 2010 and the Texans didn't sign him. Why? $$$$ The Texans had a need for a pass rusher and Brady said he was glad that Schobel retired because of all of the pressure Schobel put on him. I dont believe for a moment that Schobel was in bad enough shape that he couldn't help the Texans historically bad defense. But BoB believed he wasn't worth the $$$$ or he didn't want to pay the $$$$. Oh well that's water under the bridge maybe BoB has changed his ways. But the burden of proof is on BoB to put his $$$ where his mouth is and hire the best AC's and get the best players to help his team win as possible. Otherwise BoB's just blowing smoke up his fanbase a** again this yr. (Remember last yrs playoff or bust thing that BoB was touting last yr) Just to sell a few more tickets.


For all of the positive stats you put out. I can give you 2 stats that matter the most 5-7 and 0 playoff appearances.

TK, do you think that it's a coincedence that BoB starts talking about a SB the week ticket renewals come due? Come on your not that niave are you?

thunderkyss
02-02-2011, 07:48 PM
What's stupid?

If a HC goes 5-7 four yrs in a row and doesn't get fired. What will get him fired?

That does not define a con. You make it sound as if that's the plan. "bwahahahahahahahha
We'll go 5-7 over the first twelve games .....
http://www.robertjschwalb.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/dr-evil-150x150.jpg
and collect one... hundred... billion dollars."


You don't think Dr. Evil would equate winning more games with bringing in more money?

TK, do you think that it's a coincedence that BoB starts talking about a SB the week ticket renewals come due? Come on your not that niave are you?

You do know I've got over three months to pay up don't you?

JB
02-02-2011, 08:48 PM
The marketing arm is all that BoB cares about. Or Larry Johnson would've been a Texan. Schobel really wanted to play for the Texans in 2010 and the Texans didn't sign him. Why?

Larry Johnson? Really? What did he do this year? And Schobel was so out of shape it would have been a long time until he was ready to play. C'mon Man! Come up with something better than that!

thunderkyss
02-02-2011, 08:54 PM
Larry Johnson? Really? What did he do this year? And Schobel was so out of shape it would have been a long time until he was ready to play. C'mon Man! Come up with something better than that!

There is no doubt in my mind, had we picked up Larry Johnson at our bye in 2009, the Texans would have made the play-offs.

No doubt in my mind.

JB
02-02-2011, 09:08 PM
There is no doubt in my mind, had we picked up Larry Johnson at our bye in 2009, the Texans would have made the play-offs.

No doubt in my mind.

That's fine. But what did you see out of Larry Johnson in 2009 or 2010 to support that? Lets see... after he was signed by Cinci he gained 204 yds. Wow!

2010? He gained a whopping 2 yards! Yeah, big difference there? And what happened with him after he was cut by the Redskins after game 2? Who did he play for?

steelbtexan
02-02-2011, 10:21 PM
That's fine. But what did you see out of Larry Johnson in 2009 or 2010 to support that? Lets see... after he was signed by Cinci he gained 204 yds. Wow!

2010? He gained a whopping 2 yards! Yeah, big difference there? And what happened with him after he was cut by the Redskins after game 2? Who did he play for?

Johnson ran for over 100 yds in a couple for the Bengals in 2009.

We disagreed last yr on Schobel.

Nothing has changed.

I do respect your opinion though.

JB
02-02-2011, 10:25 PM
Johnson ran for over 100 yds in a couple for the Bengals in 2009.

We disagreed last yr on Schobel.

Nothing has changed.

I do respect your opinion though.

I respect yours also. That's what it's all about.

Mr teX
02-03-2011, 10:33 AM
I'll have to give the offensive side their due.
how much turnover has there been since Kubiak?

Calhoun, sherman, shanahan,Dennison?

and their has been some stability however the offense was sporadic.

Defensively.the Texans tried to go cheap (well did) the Texans have never had a strong figure on that side of the ball... (I have no idea what Ray Rhodes job really was) ... I don't know what Kubiak was thinking there.

His buddy system on the offense has been good, too bad the buddy system on the defensive side has countered that.

here to change with Wade coming in !
f
and for whatever reason.. when players come to the Texans, after their first year here, their play goes backwards ... yeah, that is coaching

This isn't something exclusive to players on the texans roster & coaching staff though, it happens to players all over the league & its usually b/c said player gets exposed.

It happens to players all over the league, for winning & losing teams, its just myopic of us as texans fans to think that only our players regress... Bottom line is, guys who can play will show up or hold relatively steady, guys who can't will eventually get exposed.

HuttoKarl
02-03-2011, 10:57 AM
Last offseason it was "Playoffs or bust"....how'd that work out, stupid Texans front office?

HoustonFrog
02-03-2011, 11:36 AM
Last offseason it was "Playoffs or bust"....how'd that work out, stupid Texans front office?

Last offseason? It has been said here for 3 years.....right up until convenient excuses get in the way of reality.

Double Barrel
02-03-2011, 11:47 AM
This isn't something exclusive to players on the texans roster & coaching staff though, it happens to players all over the league & its usually b/c said player gets exposed.

It happens to players all over the league, for winning & losing teams, its just myopic of us as texans fans to think that only our players regress... Bottom line is, guys who can play will show up or hold relatively steady, guys who can't will eventually get exposed.

No, it's myopic of you to assume that Texans fans think it only happens to this franchise. We fully realize that it happens to players on the Browns, Lions, Bengals, and other perpetually crappy teams.

Where it is least likely to happen is teams like the Patriots, Colts, Steelers...you know, perpetually successful teams that hire FO personnel and coaches that know how to find the right talent and develop it accordingly.

There are always exceptions to the rule, so don't bother cherry picking examples. We have 9 years of watching this franchise flounder for proof. An example here or there does not reverse the trend.

thunderkyss
02-03-2011, 01:31 PM
That's fine. But what did you see out of Larry Johnson in 2009 or 2010 to support that? Lets see... after he was signed by Cinci he gained 204 yds. Wow!


2010 has nothing to do with anything.

We went into the bye week with obvious RB issues. Slaton contracted fumblitus, our coaches didn't trust Ryan Moats (why was he even on the team), and we came out of that week with Chris Brown as our featured back against a division rival. 11 caries, 36 yards.

Larry Johnson wasn't supposed to be our answer. Just our answer then. At the end of the season, we still should have drafted a RB, & let them compete with Foster & Slaton in the offseason.

Chris Brown or Larry Johnson.... that was the question.

How many people do you believe would have made the same decision "we" did?

infantrycak
02-03-2011, 01:46 PM
2010 has nothing to do with anything.

We went into the bye week with obvious RB issues. Slaton contracted fumblitus, our coaches didn't trust Ryan Moats (why was he even on the team), and we came out of that week with Chris Brown as our featured back against a division rival. 11 caries, 36 yards.

Larry Johnson wasn't supposed to be our answer. Just our answer then. At the end of the season, we still should have drafted a RB, & let them compete with Foster & Slaton in the offseason.

Chris Brown or Larry Johnson.... that was the question.

How many people do you believe would have made the same decision "we" did?

Feature back? - hardly. Brown had 11 attempts as his max that season (and one of the two occasions that happened was at 5.5 ypc so hard to complain about). The main point of Brown being in the game was pass protection. Not sure how Larry Johnson would have helped out in that regard.

Mr teX
02-03-2011, 02:13 PM
No, it's myopic of you to assume that Texans fans think it only happens to this franchise. We fully realize that it happens to players on the Browns, Lions, Bengals, and other perpetually crappy teams.

Where it is least likely to happen is teams like the Patriots, Colts, Steelers...you know, perpetually successful teams that hire FO personnel and coaches that know how to find the right talent and develop it accordingly.

There are always exceptions to the rule, so don't bother cherry picking examples. We have 9 years of watching this franchise flounder for proof. An example here or there does not reverse the trend.

Maybe i'm reading too much into his statement (not surprising) but this is what the guy wrote:

and for whatever reason.. when players come to the Texans, after their first year here, their play goes backwards ... yeah, that is coaching.

Pay attention to the bolded..that piece of the statement. Reading that part of it says To me that he honestly thinks that its our coaching staff thats causing texans players to regress as if it doesn't happen to other teams, winning or losing. All i did was try to point out that players regress for every team..I did not assume that all texans fans thought this; at least that wasn't the intent of my post & to be honest, its the very thing that i hate about some of the opinions on this board... Opinion isn't the truth or what is going to happen no matter how much truth is used to formulate/predict it. yet many including myself at times, try to pass theirs off that way.

The coaching isn't/wasn't worth a damn..we know that..that's a given. But at what point do we say "you know what bill walsh couldn't coach this guy up, he just can't play.." Do some of us really think that coaching is the reason Okoye is a below average DT? Why Pollard can't cover worth a damn? Why Wilson is terrible at FS? I just feel many are giving these crappy players a pass b/c they were brought here by a coach that hasn't been able to get it done.

Dishman
02-03-2011, 03:00 PM
Committed to winning a championship and knowing how to do so are two different things.

I honestly do not doubt his commitment.

Agreed. People saying McNair "cares about putting an NFL winner on the field" and getting all wrapPed up in their feelings are ignoring the difference about caring and just flat-out knowing how to make it happen.

Double Barrel
02-03-2011, 03:22 PM
Maybe i'm reading too much into his statement (not surprising) but this is what the guy wrote:

and for whatever reason.. when players come to the Texans, after their first year here, their play goes backwards ... yeah, that is coaching.

Pay attention to the bolded..that piece of the statement. Reading that part of it says To me that he honestly thinks that its our coaching staff thats causing texans players to regress as if it doesn't happen to other teams, winning or losing. All i did was try to point out that players regress for every team..I did not assume that all texans fans thought this; at least that wasn't the intent of my post & to be honest, its the very thing that i hate about some of the opinions on this board... Opinion isn't the truth or what is going to happen no matter how much truth is used to formulate/predict it. yet many including myself at times, try to pass theirs off that way.

The coaching isn't/wasn't worth a damn..we know that..that's a given. But at what point do we say "you know what bill walsh couldn't coach this guy up, he just can't play.." Do some of us really think that coaching is the reason Okoye is a below average DT? Why Pollard can't cover worth a damn? Why Wilson is terrible at FS? I just feel many are giving these crappy players a pass b/c they were brought here by a coach that hasn't been able to get it done.

Okay, I see your point. I think the problem with the Texans is picking the wrong players to begin with, which is what I believe that you are saying here. We certainly cannot expect some of these players to be 'coached up' to do things that they are simply incapable of doing. They were wrong picks to begin with. Something about polishing a turd goes here.

My buddy is always asking me "players or schemes (coaches)", and I tend to think it comes back to coaches, simply because they are picking the players, as well as the schemes.

I didn't mean to read too much into your post. It just came across in a way (about all fans), so that's where I was coming from. Apologies for the confusion. :)

infantrycak
02-03-2011, 03:48 PM
Okay, I see your point. I think the problem with the Texans is picking the wrong players to begin with, which is what I believe that you are saying here. We certainly cannot expect some of these players to be 'coached up' to do things that they are simply incapable of doing. They were wrong picks to begin with. Something about polishing a turd goes here.

My buddy is always asking me "players or schemes (coaches)", and I tend to think it comes back to coaches, simply because they are picking the players, as well as the schemes.

I didn't mean to read too much into your post. It just came across in a way (about all fans), so that's where I was coming from. Apologies for the confusion. :)

I think you said something about it being players and coaches combined a year or two ago (someone even sports it as a sig or did for a while). I think that was correct.

For example since people love to hate on this decision, Chris Brown's HB pass. He may have executed that flawlessly 100 times in practice and been repeatedly told not to throw it unless absolutely certain. Maybe he couldn't have been coached any better on a play Parcells, Shottenheimer, Belichick have all called in similar circumstances. Or maybe he was always spotty and it truly was a poor coaching decision. We will never know.

A more positive example would be the way the Texans came out for game #1 last season. They had the look. Don't know if the coaches did something special that week or the players or a combination. They sure as heck didn't have it for the rest of the season.

Mr teX
02-03-2011, 04:12 PM
Okay, I see your point. I think the problem with the Texans is picking the wrong players to begin with, which is what I believe that you are saying here. We certainly cannot expect some of these players to be 'coached up' to do things that they are simply incapable of doing. They were wrong picks to begin with. Something about polishing a turd goes here.

My buddy is always asking me "players or schemes (coaches)", and I tend to think it comes back to coaches, simply because they are picking the players, as well as the schemes.

I didn't mean to read too much into your post. It just came across in a way (about all fans), so that's where I was coming from. Apologies for the confusion. :)

It's :cool: man, as i said i don't excuse myself from making the same mistakes at times. I do however try to phrase my posts in an opinionative manner if that makes any sense. Some on here however, do not & it irks me to no end.

Wolf
02-03-2011, 06:51 PM
This isn't something exclusive to players on the texans roster & coaching staff though, it happens to players all over the league & its usually b/c said player gets exposed.

It happens to players all over the league, for winning & losing teams, its just myopic of us as texans fans to think that only our players regress... Bottom line is, guys who can play will show up or hold relatively steady, guys who can't will eventually get exposed.

I don't know, maybe it is scouting then.. I mean look at all the draft pics that the Texan have done over the years and once they leave Houston, how many go somewhere else and res-erect their career.. they seem to drop out of the league

Babin,Faggins, Pitts are the only ones that I can think of (off the top of my head) that I have heard anything about and with Babin doing something with another team(finally after going to his 4th team) .

NitroGSXR
02-03-2011, 07:05 PM
Bob... my season ticket payment's in. Now please stop feeding me gruel so STFU.

thunderkyss
02-03-2011, 07:41 PM
Babin,Faggins, Pitts are the only ones that I can think of (off the top of my head) that I have heard anything about and with Babin doing something with another team(finally after going to his 4th team) .

CC Brown was playing for the Lions last year.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/getty/headshot/B/R/O/BRO293250.jpg
Gaffney was the second leading receiver for the Broncos.
TJ is still part of the Chargers DL rotation.
Jaques Reeves is pretty active on Twitter.
Fred Bennett played for the Chargers & the Bengals in 2010
& I hear Tramon Williams is going to the Super Bowl.

steelbtexan
02-03-2011, 08:06 PM
Maybe i'm reading too much into his statement (not surprising) but this is what the guy wrote:

and for whatever reason.. when players come to the Texans, after their first year here, their play goes backwards ... yeah, that is coaching.

Pay attention to the bolded..that piece of the statement. Reading that part of it says To me that he honestly thinks that its our coaching staff thats causing texans players to regress as if it doesn't happen to other teams, winning or losing. All i did was try to point out that players regress for every team..I did not assume that all texans fans thought this; at least that wasn't the intent of my post & to be honest, its the very thing that i hate about some of the opinions on this board... Opinion isn't the truth or what is going to happen no matter how much truth is used to formulate/predict it. yet many including myself at times, try to pass theirs off that way.

The coaching isn't/wasn't worth a damn..we know that..that's a given. But at what point do we say "you know what bill walsh couldn't coach this guy up, he just can't play.." Do some of us really think that coaching is the reason Okoye is a below average DT? Why Pollard can't cover worth a damn? Why Wilson is terrible at FS? I just feel many are giving these crappy players a pass b/c they were brought here by a coach that hasn't been able to get it done.

I agree with most of this post.

The questions you ask about personel are valid. But these are the guys that Rick and Gary brought in and for that they should've been fired. BoB decided to go another route and bring in the white horsr in shining armor routine. (Phillips)

We'll see if BoB was right in this decision. So far history says this experiment will fail miserably and it will probably be atleast 3 yrs before the Texans make the payoffs if they're lucky.

steelbtexan
02-03-2011, 08:10 PM
Bob... my season ticket payment's in. Now please stop feeding me gruel so STFU.

^^^^^
This

LOL, it's embarrasing.

He makes me feel stupid when he talks like this.

CloakNNNdagger
02-04-2011, 08:37 AM
Bob McNair: "A championship is only bottom line that matters" .................TO WHOM, BOB????.........TO WHOM????

houstonspartan
02-04-2011, 07:32 PM
Bob... my season ticket payment's in. Now please stop feeding me gruel so STFU.

Lmao!

Nice!