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Doppelganger
01-27-2011, 08:31 PM
Here is a quick Walters Cherry Pick.

Rules
1. Can only pick players who are available at the Texans pick for the first 4 rounds.

2. Assume FA will occur AFTER the draft. So we enter the draft as we are.

3. No trade downs. We pick where we are.

4. We assume the compensatory pick we get(if e get one) is 5th round or lower.

5. Each pick will have Walter's choice and mine to contrast.

Draft
Walter1. Aldon Smith OLB
Doppel1: Justin Houston OLB, Georgia

Walter has Houston at 21, but I think once the workouts and number crunchers get going he will fly up the board. Remember he actually played in a 3-4 in college. He is not projecting, he was a OLB. He may not even be available at 11 when its all said and done, but for now I take him. Smith is a nice player, but Walter even says he is more suited for a 4-3. Why not take a true OLB rather than try convert a 4-3 end into one?

Walter2:Jimmy Smith, CB, Colorado
Doppel2:Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State

I am not sold on Smith. He played in the pass happy Big XII and did not stand out all that much to me. Now, Stephen Paea is the kind of one gap NT that Wade likes. He is a strong guy who can play the run and has the ability to rush the passer. Why did he drop? Knee injury in Senior Practice. I seriously doubt he sticks around long enough for our second rounder, but he is here by Walter's mock, so I take him in a heartbeat.

Walter3: Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina
Dopple3: Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina

Its hard not to like Walter's pick. I think we have a great FS on the roster named Glover Quin. I see the Texans signing one veteran CB to start and having Jackson/McCain/Allen/McManis/Moulden fight out for the other starter. My thinking is that Jackson/Allen are the other starter/Nickel back, McManis/McCain is the dime back and Moulden is gone. With Wilson gone (and possibly Pollard), Quin/Williams/Nolan fight it out for the to Saftey spots.

Walter4:Ian Williams, NT, Notre Dame
Dopple4:Kris O'Dowd, C, USC

I really like Ian Williams. The problem is, I don't see him replacing Stephen Paea. Having a backup like Williams would be great, but I'd rather take a player who could replace a starter down the line. O' Dowd is the kind of Center we would love to have.

Ok, your turn. Give it a shot!

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2011, 08:57 PM
http://walterfootball.com/

Ok ... I'll play .

1. I'm sticking with their pick . Houston Texans: Aldon Smith, DE/OLB, Missouri
Rejoice, Texans fans! Wade Phillips is your new defensive coordinator.

With the shift to the 3-4, Houston will need a nose tackle to pair with ends Mario Williams and Antonio Smith. DeMeco Ryans and Brian Cushing would play inside linebacker, while the outside pass rushers would be Connor Barwin and... umm... Aldon Smith.

Smith missed some action this year, which would explain why he had only 10 TFL and 4.5 sacks. However, he's a freak of nature and pretty much a lock for the top 15. Smith has drawn comparisons to Jason Pierre-Paul in terms of raw athleticism. I think he's more 4-3, but he does project well into the 3-4.


2. This guy is two good to risk waiting . Houston Texans: Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina
The Texans desperately need to address both safety positions this offseason. Free safety is more dire, as Eugene Wilson and Troy Nolan have both failed there.

3. We need big people Jerrell Powe, NT, Ole Miss
The Texans need some help up front; they struggled against the run late in the year after a great start to the season in that department.


4. Conner Barwin insurance plus competition Dontay Moch, DE/OLB, Nevada
It can never hurt to have as many quality pass-rushers as possible. With so many selections, the the dumb Texans might as well swing for the fences with one of them.

kiwitexansfan
01-27-2011, 09:40 PM
Its hard not to like Walter's pick. I think we have a great FS on the roster named Glover Quin. I see the Texans signing one veteran CB to start and having Jackson/McCain/Allen/McManis/Moulden fight out for the other starter. My thinking is that Jackson/Allen are the other starter/Nickel back, McManis/McCain is the dime back and Moulden is gone. With Wilson gone (and possibly Pollard), Quin/Williams/Nolan fight it out for the to Saftey spots.


McCain really? I can't see his name in a thread without having flashbacks of opposition TDs flashing through my brain.

If Phillips and Co. can redeem him, they deserve to go to the HoF.

Doppelganger
01-27-2011, 09:51 PM
http://walterfootball.com/

Ok ... I'll play .

1. I'm sticking with their pick . Houston Texans: Aldon Smith, DE/OLB, Missouri
Rejoice, Texans fans! Wade Phillips is your new defensive coordinator.

With the shift to the 3-4, Houston will need a nose tackle to pair with ends Mario Williams and Antonio Smith. DeMeco Ryans and Brian Cushing would play inside linebacker, while the outside pass rushers would be Connor Barwin and... umm... Aldon Smith.

Smith missed some action this year, which would explain why he had only 10 TFL and 4.5 sacks. However, he's a freak of nature and pretty much a lock for the top 15. Smith has drawn comparisons to Jason Pierre-Paul in terms of raw athleticism. I think he's more 4-3, but he does project well into the 3-4.


2. This guy is two good to risk waiting . Houston Texans: Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina
The Texans desperately need to address both safety positions this offseason. Free safety is more dire, as Eugene Wilson and Troy Nolan have both failed there.

3. We need big people Jerrell Powe, NT, Ole Miss
The Texans need some help up front; they struggled against the run late in the year after a great start to the season in that department.


4. Conner Barwin insurance plus competition Dontay Moch, DE/OLB, Nevada
It can never hurt to have as many quality pass-rushers as possible. With so many selections, the the dumb Texans might as well swing for the fences with one of them.

1. Smith is a fine player, but I prefer the idea of taking a player who has produced as a 3-4 OLB rather than trying to convert a 4-3 and hope he can do it.

2. The point of the Cherry Pick is to take who is there when they are available. Williams is available as the pick in the third round, so you can pencil him in there. Taking him here loses the opportunity for a second round player.

3. Jerrel Powe fits the mold of a traditional NT, but not a Wade Phillips NT. In the WP system, the NT is a 1 gap player who has to be able to shoot the gaps and have strength to take on blockers. Powe failed at shooting gaps. He is strictly a big traditional NT. If we ran that system, he'd be a great pick. Since we don't, not as good of a selction.

4. Moch is certainly a good idea. And you are right, you cannot have enough OLBs. We don't even know if Barwin can go, so another OLB may be a great choice.

Doppelganger
01-27-2011, 09:54 PM
McCain really? I can't see his name in a thread without having flashbacks of opposition TDs flashing through my brain.

If Phillips and Co. can redeem him, they deserve to go to the HoF.

I hear you, but in my scenario he is likely ST/Depth

Here is how I think it ends up
Veteran CB: CB#1
Jackson: CB#2 or Nickle
Allen: Nickle or CB #2
McManus: Dime
McCain: depth/ST
Drafted CB: depth/ST

Undrafted CB: Practice squad

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2011, 09:59 PM
1. Smith is a fine player, but I prefer the idea of taking a player who has produced as a 3-4 OLB rather than trying to convert a 4-3 and hope he can do it.

2. The point of the Cherry Pick is to take who is there when they are available. Williams is available as the pick in the third round, so you can pencil him in there. Taking him here loses the opportunity for a second round player.

3. Jerrel Powe fits the mold of a traditional NT, but not a Wade Phillips NT. In the WP system, the NT is a 1 gap player who has to be able to shoot the gaps and have strength to take on blockers. Powe failed at shooting gaps. He is strictly a big traditional NT. If we ran that system, he'd be a great pick. Since we don't, not as good of a selction.

4. Moch is certainly a good idea. And you are right, you cannot have enough OLBs. We don't even know if Barwin can go, so another OLB may be a great choice.

My original was Smith , Marvin Austin , Williams , and Moch . Then I changed my mind .

kiwitexansfan
01-27-2011, 10:03 PM
Now the McCain hate is out of the way, I can't resist a good Cherry Pick...

#1 - Cameron Jordan DE/DT, Cal, Rising up the boards after a very strong Senior Bowl week. I believe the better play you get from your DL the more options you have overall so upgrading the DL is a priority. Strongly considered Julio Jones, Alabama, would love another WEAPON in the passing game.

#2 - Jabaal Sheard, OLB, Pittsburgh. Great quickness and speed for a large man, can get after the passer and that is another key to making the 3-4 and our defense in general work. Character concerns may stop this, but you can't deny the talent.

#3 - Robert Sands, FS, WVU, Big rangy safety. Can tackle and play centrefield.

#4 - Vincent Brown, WR, SDSU, Big Physical WR with outstanding hands. Will not make JJ's mistakes and is a much bigger target than DA, he can take KW's spot on the team sooner than you'd think.

kiwitexansfan
01-27-2011, 10:06 PM
I hear you, but in my scenario he is likely ST/Depth

Here is how I think it ends up
Veteran CB: CB#1
Jackson: CB#2 or Nickle
Allen: Nickle or CB #2
McManus: Dime
McCain: depth/ST
Drafted CB: depth/ST

Undrafted CB: Practice squad

If we get a veteran CB who can be the #1 guy I'd be stoked, however those sorts of guys are going to be in HIGH demand and tempted to go to a contender.

beerlover
01-27-2011, 10:18 PM
Justin Houston, DE/OLB, Georgia

Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State

Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina

Vincent Brown, WR, San Diego State

I could live with it :)

Jackie Chiles
01-28-2011, 03:48 AM
3. Jerrel Powe fits the mold of a traditional NT, but not a Wade Phillips NT. In the WP system, the NT is a 1 gap player who has to be able to shoot the gaps and have strength to take on blockers. Powe failed at shooting gaps. He is strictly a big traditional NT. If we ran that system, he'd be a great pick. Since we don't, not as good of a selction.

You are only taking into consideration his time in Dallas with Ratliff and what has been said on the ariwaves around here. The Phillips 3-4 excelled in San Diego with Jamal Williams (350lbs give or take a few cheeseburgers) and before that in Buffalo with Ted Washington. Washington probably played around 370+, the guy was an absolute behemoth. About the only conclusion I can draw is there is no unbreakable mold for the NT but the guy has to be able to play. I imagine if Wade had the choice he would choose size though.

Doppelganger
01-28-2011, 03:18 PM
You are only taking into consideration his time in Dallas with Ratliff and what has been said on the ariwaves around here. The Phillips 3-4 excelled in San Diego with Jamal Williams (350lbs give or take a few cheeseburgers) and before that in Buffalo with Ted Washington. Washington probably played around 370+, the guy was an absolute behemoth. About the only conclusion I can draw is there is no unbreakable mold for the NT but the guy has to be able to play. I imagine if Wade had the choice he would choose size though.

Disagree. The thing that Ratliff, Jamal Williams, and Ted Washington have in common is they can shoot the gap. Jerrel Powe was placed in position to be a Gap shooting NT. If it succeed he would have shot up into the first round. Jerrel Powe proved decisively that he cannot shoot the gap. He is a space eating, 2 gap clogging NT. Nothing wrong with that for a traditional 3-4. Problem is, we don't use that type of player.

Paea would be a much better fit since he CAN shoot the gaps and is strong enough to play the run. If we could get a big guy who can shoot the gaps and be stout and strong enough to play the run, I would grab him. Problem is those types of NT don't come around very often. Ted Washingtons and Jamal Williams do not grow on trees.

Doppelganger
01-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Justin Houston, DE/OLB, Georgia

Stephen Paea, DT, Oregon State

Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina

Vincent Brown, WR, San Diego State

I could live with it :)

3/4. Wow. We agreed on 3/4 choices. Great minds think a like.

Doppelganger
01-28-2011, 03:22 PM
Now the McCain hate is out of the way, I can't resist a good Cherry Pick...

#1 - Cameron Jordan DE/DT, Cal, Rising up the boards after a very strong Senior Bowl week. I believe the better play you get from your DL the more options you have overall so upgrading the DL is a priority. Strongly considered Julio Jones, Alabama, would love another WEAPON in the passing game.

#2 - Jabaal Sheard, OLB, Pittsburgh. Great quickness and speed for a large man, can get after the passer and that is another key to making the 3-4 and our defense in general work. Character concerns may stop this, but you can't deny the talent.

#3 - Robert Sands, FS, WVU, Big rangy safety. Can tackle and play centrefield.

#4 - Vincent Brown, WR, SDSU, Big Physical WR with outstanding hands. Will not make JJ's mistakes and is a much bigger target than DA, he can take KW's spot on the team sooner than you'd think.


1. Unless he can play our 3-4 one gap NT, which I don't think he can, I don't see the value in taking a 3-4 DE in the first round.

2. Talented player. Gotta have good OLB in a 3-4. I like it.

3. Very solid Safety. no complaint from me.

4. A good player I had not previously considered. Yes, we definitely could use an upgrade at WR. Good pick.

rmartin65
01-28-2011, 03:50 PM
1) Georgia OLB Justin Houston

2) Oregon State DT Stephen Paea

3) North Carolina FS Deunta Williams

4) Hampton DT Kenrick Ellis

steelbtexan
01-28-2011, 04:03 PM
1) Georgia OLB Justin Houston

2) Oregon State DT Stephen Paea

3) North Carolina FS Deunta Williams

4) Hampton DT Kenrick Ellis

This is what they should do if Ellis lasts until the 4th rd. Dont reach for need, go BPA and in the 4th rd Ellis would be BPA. Ellis is the big NT that has power or the quickness to shoot the gaps.

I like Carter if he's there better than Williams.

Taylor>Paea at NT.

rmartin65
01-28-2011, 04:08 PM
This is what they should do if Ellis lasts until the 4th rd. Dont reach for need, go BPA and in the 4th rd Ellis would be BPA. Ellis is the big NT that has power or the quickness to shoot the gaps.

I like Carter if he's there better than Williams.

Taylor>Paea at NT.

They have Carter going in the early 2nd.

Imagine a 3-4 DL of Paea - Ellis - Williams

Dutchrudder
01-28-2011, 04:10 PM
Why is DT Stephen Paea getting pushed to the second round? I thought he was a top 20 pick.

JB
01-28-2011, 04:11 PM
Why is DT Stephen Paea getting pushed to the second round? I thought he was a top 20 pick.

Injury during the first Senior Bowl practice.

Paea suffered a possible tear to the lateral meniscus in one knee Monday, sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. He was undergoing an MRI on Tuesday after hurting the knee during the opening practice for the North squad.


Link (http://espn.go.com/blog/pac10/post/_/id/18516/stephenpaea-hurts-knee-at-senior-bowl)

steelbtexan
01-28-2011, 04:19 PM
They have Carter going in the early 2nd.

Imagine a 3-4 DL of Paea - Ellis - Williams

Yep

That and a healthy LB corps of Barwin, Ryans,Cushing and Houston.

If Bailey or Taylor were signed the DB's wouldn't look as bad either.

Bailey,Jackson,Quin,Williams

With Phillips coordinating that defense, it's a top 15 or better defense.

Honoring Earl 34
01-28-2011, 05:12 PM
Why is DT Stephen Paea getting pushed to the second round? I thought he was a top 20 pick.

He weighed 295 at the senior bowl .

Wolf6151
01-28-2011, 05:33 PM
At first glance this appears to be an easy assignment but in retrospect is harder than it appears. Many of the players I want are taken just before our pick in a particular round.

Cherry Pick Walter Draft:

1. Akeem Ayers-OLB, he can do it all. He can drop back in pass coverage and isn't just one dimensional. We need someone to help with covering the TE as well as rushing the passer.
2. Quinton Carter-FS, I wanted Rahim Moore but he was gone and Carter is to good to pass up at a much needed position.
3. Jerrell Powe-NT or Jarvis Jenkins-DT, Powe is a more traditional 3-4 NT but Phillips 3-4 system calls for a 1 gap penetrating NT and Jenkins has the size and athleticism and has been practicing very well at the Senior Bowl.
4. James Carpenter-OT, has been practicing very well this week at the Senior Bowl and with Rashad Butler most likely gone, we'll need a replacement. Might even push Brown for a starting position and move Brown inside.

Wolf6151
01-28-2011, 05:37 PM
They have Carter going in the early 2nd.

Imagine a 3-4 DL of Paea - Ellis - Williams

Walter has Carter going #71 to Dallas in the 3rd round.

beerlover
01-28-2011, 09:49 PM
they change mocks everyday hard to figure without reference point :specnatz:

Hottoddie
01-29-2011, 08:08 PM
1) Georgia OLB Justin Houston

2) Virginia CB Ras-I Dowling

3) Ole Mill DT Jerrell Powe

4) Florida FS/SS Ahmad Black

TimeKiller
01-30-2011, 10:08 PM
1. cameron jordan DE
2. jimmy smith stays as the new FS
3. deunta williams stays as the new SS, plenty of size to do so
4. kj wright ILB good size, kind of a reach but fills in a need for more guys at LB

Blake
01-30-2011, 11:11 PM
1.) Justin Houston, OLB, Georgia
2.) Aaron Williams, CB, Texas
3.) Deunta Williams, FS, North Carolina
4.) Ian Williams, NT, Notre Dame

Picks 3 and 4 are the same. Wanted Phil Taylor and Quinton Carter, but they went a few picks early. Got us a pass rusher, help at cornerback, a new starting FS and a powerful NT.

Jackie Chiles
02-01-2011, 07:46 PM
Disagree. The thing that Ratliff, Jamal Williams, and Ted Washington have in common is they can shoot the gap. Jerrel Powe was placed in position to be a Gap shooting NT. If it succeed he would have shot up into the first round. Jerrel Powe proved decisively that he cannot shoot the gap. He is a space eating, 2 gap clogging NT. Nothing wrong with that for a traditional 3-4. Problem is, we don't use that type of player.

Paea would be a much better fit since he CAN shoot the gaps and is strong enough to play the run. If we could get a big guy who can shoot the gaps and be stout and strong enough to play the run, I would grab him. Problem is those types of NT don't come around very often. Ted Washingtons and Jamal Williams do not grow on trees.

From the mouth of Wade Philips himself:

"The nose guard doesn’t play 2-gap all the time, unless he can. I had Ted Washington in the Pro Bowl. I’ve actually had four different nose guards in the Pro Bowl. It depends on what the nose guard can do, as to what he plays. We’re going to tailor it to our personnel, not to what I can think of. But it’s going to be out of a three defensive lineman setup because of the pass rush you can get."

I'll say it again, there is no prototype NT for Wade, he will take the best player he can find and tailor the scheme accordingly. If that player is a big fat two-gapper, so be it. Obviously the smaller guys that can play there get noticed a bit more because it goes against the grain. I will be happy with either type of NT but to limit yourself right out the gate is silly.

Doppelganger
02-03-2011, 09:26 PM
From the mouth of Wade Philips himself:

"The nose guard doesnít play 2-gap all the time, unless he can. I had Ted Washington in the Pro Bowl. Iíve actually had four different nose guards in the Pro Bowl. It depends on what the nose guard can do, as to what he plays. Weíre going to tailor it to our personnel, not to what I can think of. But itís going to be out of a three defensive lineman setup because of the pass rush you can get."

I'll say it again, there is no prototype NT for Wade, he will take the best player he can find and tailor the scheme accordingly. If that player is a big fat two-gapper, so be it. Obviously the smaller guys that can play there get noticed a bit more because it goes against the grain. I will be happy with either type of NT but to limit yourself right out the gate is silly.

This is why we MUST get Taylor, even if we have to get him in the first. A NT who can play Two gap/one gap/play stout against the run, and pass rush would be a HUGE help to our 3-4.

JB
02-03-2011, 10:01 PM
This is why we MUST get Taylor, even if we have to get him in the first. A NT who can play Two gap/one gap/play stout against the run, and pass rush would be a HUGE help to our 3-4.

Sorry, there is no must get. I understand what you are saying, but there IS a price too high. At this point, you don't select him at 11. If it makes sense to trade down you do so, but right now he is still a second round pick at best. I am not saying that's where I think he will wind up, or where I have him. But that's where most scouts have him right now. Early to mid second.