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View Full Version : Jeff Fisher OUT as Titans HC


JWarren14
01-27-2011, 05:27 PM
Just got a text update per SI.com

Double Barrel
01-27-2011, 05:31 PM
whoah! :shocked

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 05:32 PM
:popcorn:

ChampionTexan
01-27-2011, 05:33 PM
LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/01/27/titans-jeff-fisher/index.html?eref=sihp)

JB
01-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Just on NFLN now. May be announced tomorrow. Reports coming from Don Banks of SI. Based on a tip he received, they are negotiating his terms for settlement.

Honoring Earl 34
01-27-2011, 05:35 PM
Oh hell .... bring back Jerry Glanville .

CloakNNNdagger
01-27-2011, 05:39 PM
Fisher, 52, and owner Bud Adams have been at odds for years, mostly specifically about Fisher's use of QB Vince Young. At the end of the season, Young cursed out Fisher in front of the team after a November game.

Fisher gave Adams a Young-or-me ultimatum and Adams, after days of mulling the decision, said publically that the team would trade or release Young. It is not know if Fisher's departure will pave the way for Young to stay with the team.

LINK (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-01-27/jeff-fisher-reportedly-done-as-titans-coach)

JWarren14
01-27-2011, 05:39 PM
Still too late to make Kubiak OC and bring Fisher in as HC? jk...

jaayteetx
01-27-2011, 05:42 PM
Titans = Raiders East

Hagar
01-27-2011, 05:43 PM
I guess Bud let that finger fly one too many times.

http://slanchreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bud-adams-flipping-the-bird.jpg?w=300&h=268

usted está loco

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2lYPdhBiFEvqs8zW3a8pjPl_mqbjTH OcotAdJXYJKJbX5DEZK0A

Hoss
01-27-2011, 05:43 PM
Still too late to make Kubiak OC and bring Fisher in as HC? jk...

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1234525508_ben_stiller_-_do_it.gif

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 05:47 PM
http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1234525508_ben_stiller_-_do_it.gif

Why you gotta steal my gig???? ^^^^^^

CloakNNNdagger
01-27-2011, 06:01 PM
No matter who the HC will be now, with or without VY, this is going to be a train wreck. Why can I say that with confidence? Because Bud is still the flag man on the tracks. Houston was only the "practice run."

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3536/4053489363_47476ee5e1.jpg

Some fans won't be able to watch the wheels come off..............I won't be one of them.:popcorn:

TimeKiller
01-27-2011, 06:03 PM
Hey Jeff.

Just heard the news.

Dwell on the good days, not the bad.

Hey, since you're unemployed, want a job with me? I can't really give you a title persay...I mean if you wanna get technical it would be "Defensive Assistant" but really we just need a bunch of help real fast on defense. You and Wade can do it for sure, I know it and with my boy Gary running his show on offense we'll be unstoppable.

Look I know you're getting other offers but how's 5 million a year?

And maybe if I need a new coach you'll happen to be right here waiting....

Signed Bob McNair.

TexanSam
01-27-2011, 06:10 PM
Jeff Fisher should be thankful. Now he doesn't have to work for such a horrible owner.

Thorn
01-27-2011, 06:14 PM
If this is indeed true, Fisher will have a job fairly quickly.

b0ng
01-27-2011, 06:14 PM
IT will be interesting how fast he gets a job since one of the cute things to say is that he would have a job by sundown on the day he got fired.

I hear Eagles fans want him as a DC. That would probably make them unstoppable.

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 06:15 PM
I thought I would see what the Tennessee papers had to say. This article clears things up - not.


link (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110127/SPORTS01/110127075/Jeff-Fisher-Titans-parting-ways-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports)

The team released a one-sentence press release: "The Tennessee Titans and Jeff Fisher have agreed to part ways and Fisher will no longer be the head coach of the team."

Fisher has spent the past 16 seasons with the team. The Titans finished 6-10 last season, the Titans opted not to extend Fisher’s contract but there were indications he would be back for 2011.

Reached on Thursday after SI.com first reported the news, Titans owner Bud Adams had no comment and seemed surprised.

“Where did you hear that? I better check on that. I can’t talk about it now. I have to talk to my people there,’’ Adams said. “I haven’t talked to them today. I really can’t talk about it now because I don’t know what’s been said. I want to see what is going on.’’

:popcorn: I had to get a refill.

Wolf
01-27-2011, 06:20 PM
nashville finally gets to see how Bud really operates

Thorn
01-27-2011, 06:20 PM
Just a quick visit to titanstailgate.com and most of them seem pretty happy about this. At least most who have posted on this so far.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 06:21 PM
Still too late to make Kubiak OC and bring Fisher in as HC? jk...

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1234525508_ben_stiller_-_do_it.gif

Why? What has Jeff Fisher done as a HC in the last decade? The guy was the most overrated coach in the league. Even if we did fire Kubiak, I wouldn't want him here. Jim Washburn was the strength of that team, everything outside of the Dline was very mediocre.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 06:22 PM
I get the feeling he quit.

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 06:27 PM
Here is a gem from GoTitans

Just kidding. I liked Fisher, but it was time for a change. I hope we keep VY now too. A coaching change is certainly what he needed because it was no secret that he and Fisher didn't get along. So, who are we gonna get?

I'm hoping we pull someone proven like Cowher or Gruden or Dungy. But that's a lot to ask for. At least we have some talented players that may draw some good coaches. Man these last couple years being a Titans and Vols fan have been tough.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 06:33 PM
Don't really know why everyone thinks the Titans are so screwed right now because of Bud Adams when we have Bob Mcnair.

Hopefully they don't land one of the big fish HC"s that will become a thorn in the Texans. Not that it matters until Smithiak is gone, but I hate seeing the Titans successful in any capacity. To bad this didn't happen a while back at the very end of the season. Maybe Uncle Bob would have actually considered Fisher had he been on the open market over keeping stupiak since he's so into bringing in guys with ties to old Houston teams.

CloakNNNdagger
01-27-2011, 06:34 PM
I thought I would see what the Tennessee papers had to say. This article clears things up - not.


link (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110127/SPORTS01/110127075/Jeff-Fisher-Titans-parting-ways-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Sports)



:popcorn: I had to get a refill.
\

If there has already been talk of settlement, Bud already knew the score........I bet he practiced in the mirror all morning acting surprised.:kitten:

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 06:44 PM
Don't really know why everyone thinks the Titans are so screwed right now because of Bud Adams when we have Bob Mcnair.


Really??? I would love to go off on this, but I am pretty much speechless.

JB
01-27-2011, 06:46 PM
Don't really know why everyone thinks the Titans are so screwed right now because of Bud Adams when we have Bob Mcnair.

Hopefully they don't land one of the big fish HC"s that will become a thorn in the Texans. Not that it matters until Smithiak is gone, but I hate seeing the Titans successful in any capacity. To bad this didn't happen a while back at the very end of the season. Maybe Uncle Bob would have actually considered Fisher had he been on the open market over keeping stupiak since he's so into bringing in guys with ties to old Houston teams.

Wait!!! What?!!! Did you just compare Buck Fud Adams favorably to McNair? Really? Obviously you were not around when the Oilers were here.

Adams is 1000 times worse as an owner, whether you like McNair or not. To pretend otherwise is sheer ignorance.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 06:49 PM
Really??? I would love to go off on this, but I am pretty much speechless.

Yeah, I can't even go that far. For as many mistakes as Bob has made, he doesn't come close to Adams. When Bob is out there embarrassing this franchise by shooting off double 1 finger salutes then we can talk. Bob's mistakes come from him being naive and mostly due to being inexperienced in the NFL. LOL, Bud has been going at this for 5 decades and is still as big of a clown as ever...he's entering Al Davis territory.


And even if we did fire Kubiak and Fisher was available, I wouldn't want him. He's all media hype and his perceived reputation greatly outweighs the actual on the field production that makes up Fisher's resume. It would pretty much be a lateral move. Still mediocrity

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 06:58 PM
Wait!!! What?!!! Did you just compare Buck Fud Adams favorably to McNair? Really? Obviously you were not around when the Oilers were here.

Adams is 1000 times worse as an owner, whether you like McNair or not. To pretend otherwise is sheer ignorance.

No he is not. You just don't like Adams because he ran away with the Oilers. Mcnair is just as bad but in different ways. We;ve had a franchise here for 9 years and Mcnair has done nothing to show that he's highly committed to winning. He's just more classy, but that doesn't make him a better over all owner. Not from what he's shown thus far. I'd say it's sheer ignorance to act like Bob Mcnair has shown that he's any better than any owner at this point really. He's right there with guys like Bud Adams, Al Davis, Mike Brown (Bengals), William Clay Ford SR (Lions), and Ralph Wilson (Bills). His motivation as an owner from what he's displayed and more importantly "expressed" has been one of mediocrity as a module of success. Those were his own words.

And I've been around here my entire life, so yeah I was around here for a ton of the Oiler years and quite frankly those were by far my favorite and most fun years as a fan in this city along with the 80's and 90's Rockets years. The House Of Pain days were epic. Once Bud took his team and left though, the Oilers died. To hell with him and his now Titans team. Despite his history and poor reputation, Mcnair isn't any better where winning is concerned.

mussop
01-27-2011, 06:59 PM
All i got to say is Kubiak better not get off to a slow start. If we start out 2 and 4 and Fisher and Cowher are still unemployed McNair better be on the phone. Of course I know this is wishfull thinking. Phillips is our next HC.:wadepalm:

JB
01-27-2011, 07:05 PM
No he is not. You just don't like Adams because he ran away with the Oilers. Mcnair is just as bad but in different ways. We;ve had a franchise here for 9 years and Mcnair has done nothing to show that he's highly committed to winning. He's just more classy, but that doesn't make him a better over all owner. Not from what he's shown thus far. I'd say it's sheer ignorance to act like Bob Mcnair has shown that he's any better than any owner at this point really. He's right there with guys like Bud Adams, Al Davis, Mike Brown (Bengals), William Clay Ford SR (Lions), and Ralph Wilson (Bills). His motivation as an owner from what he's displayed and more importantly "expressed" has been one of mediocrity as a module of success. Those were his own words.

And I've been around here my entire life, so yeah I was around here for a ton of the Oiler years and quite frankly those were by far my favorite and most fun years as a fan in this city along with the 80's and 90's Rockets years. The House Of Pain days were epic. Once Bud took his team and left though, the Oilers died. To hell with him and his now Titans team. Despite his history and poor reputation, Mcnair isn't any better where winning is concerned.

Dude, Fud was a joke and I hated him long before the Oiler's left town. I have followed Houston football since the early '60's. And I can tell you that McNair has not come anywhere close to the asshattery that Fud pulled in the late '60's and early 70's.

Thorn
01-27-2011, 07:09 PM
Bud Adams is much more of a horrible owner than McNair, it's not even close. The Oilers did put better teams on the field than the Texans have even come close to, but that was in spite of Bud, not because of him.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 07:11 PM
I don't understand why people would say Fisher is overrated and Cowher is some kind of football god in the same breath. The difference between Fisher and Cowher is Ben Roethlisberger and Dick LeBeau. Think about it.

FirstTexansFan
01-27-2011, 07:15 PM
Well, it's an old folks landslide... Sorry Tex, you know I agree with about 99% of what ya say, but we're gonna part ways here... having lived through the Oilers experience since '67, I can give an opinion of someone who saw it, and heard it first hand... their is NO comparison. By the time the Oilers left in '96, I was no longer a fan of the team.

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 07:24 PM
Well, it's an old folks landslide... Sorry Tex, you know I agree with about 99% of what ya say, but we're gonna part ways here... having lived through the Oilers experience since '67, I can give an opinion of someone who saw it, and heard it first hand... their is NO comparison. By the time the Oilers left in '96, I was no longer a fan of the team.

Yep, and people (FTF, not directed at you even though I quoted you - just continuing the thought) want to call McNair cheap. How many players did Bud refuse to pay?? His cheapskate ways kept the Oilers from ever building a top notch team while in Houston. Note the qualifier while in Houston, after leaving, his desire to stick it to Houston loosened up the purse strings a bit.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 07:24 PM
Yeah, I can't even go that far. For as many mistakes as Bob has made, he doesn't come close to Adams. When Bob is out there embarrassing this franchise by shooting off double 1 finger salutes then we can talk. Bob's mistakes come from him being naive and mostly due to being inexperienced in the NFL. LOL, Bud has been going at this for 5 decades and is still as big of a clown as ever...he's entering Al Davis territory.


And even if we did fire Kubiak and Fisher was available, I wouldn't want him. He's all media hype and his perceived reputation greatly outweighs the actual on the field production that makes up Fisher's resume. It would pretty much be a lateral move. Still mediocrity

Like I said he's just as bad but for different reasons. Just because he doesn't shoot the bird at other fans and act like an ass in public doesn't make him any worse of an owner for a franchise if you're main goal is supposed to be about winning. Bob's actions since he's been here for 9 years now suggest that his main goal as an owner is strictly profit. It's not winning. So as a fan whose main goal to see their team win and become successful, I could care less about Mcnair or Bud or any other owner's net profits every season. All I or any other fan should care about is what actions the owner takes to make his team a winner and Bob hasn't shown a strong commitment there as far as I'm concerned so that puts him right there with guys like Bud, Ralph Wilson and Mike Brown and a few others in bad company.

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 07:25 PM
Why? What has Jeff Fisher done as a HC in the last decade? The guy was the most overrated coach in the league. Even if we did fire Kubiak, I wouldn't want him here. Jim Washburn was the strength of that team, everything outside of the Dline was very mediocre.

Thank YOU!!! Thank YOU!!! THANK YOU!! Spot on! 6 winning seasons in 16+ years.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 07:25 PM
I don't understand why people would say Fisher is overrated and Cowher is some kind of football god in the same breath. The difference between Fisher and Cowher is Ben Roethlisberger and Dick LeBeau. Think about it.

WRONG.. Cowher coached teams to Superbowls LONG before Roethlisberger and he didn't need a "music city miracle" to get them there.

This is how OVERRATED Fisher is. Honestly what's the difference between Jeff Fisher the head coach and Wade Phillips the head coach? Will somebody please tell me, because the only difference I can see is the music city miracle and Wade's aw shucks personality.

Wade has had more success than Fisher as a head coach and has been more consistent. It's laughable to compare Fisher to Cowher. The problem here is that everybody has heard how "great of a coach" Fisher is from the national media, but nobody has looked at him closely or tried to ask the question "why is he considered a great coach", because if they're actually free thinkers and look at the #s he is not a great head coach.

The guy was a mediocre coach and if he didn't get to the SB that one year (which came from a fluke play) he would've been canned 10 years ago.

CloakNNNdagger
01-27-2011, 07:26 PM
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports the Titans still plan to trade or release Vince Young following Jeff Fisher's exit as head coach.

Interesting. The Titans' front office had clearly soured on V.Y. by the end of the season, but owner Bud Adams remained a staunch supporter. This news suggests the fissure between Fisher and Adams runs deeper, and perhaps that Fisher had seen the writing on the wall for weeks. Per NFL Network's Michael Lombardi, Young's lack of work ethic is "legendary" in the locker room and around the NFL. With his trade value in the tank, Young is as likely to be released as traded.
LINK (http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/41302720/ns/sports-player_news/)

JB
01-27-2011, 07:27 PM
Bud Adams is much more of a horrible owner than McNair, it's not even close. The Oilers did put better teams on the field than the Texans have even come close to, but that was in spite of Bud, not because of him.

And took much, much longer.

kiwitexansfan
01-27-2011, 07:27 PM
Nasty move by Adams to fire Fisher after all the head coaching jobs were filled.

Titans will be a worse team long term for this.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 07:28 PM
Yep, and people (FTF, not directed at you even though I quoted you - just continuing the thought) want to call McNair cheap. How many players did Bud refuse to pay?? His cheapskate ways kept the Oilers from ever building a top notch team while in Houston. Note the qualifier while in Houston, after leaving, his desire to stick it to Houston loosened up the purse strings a bit.

And in 9 years how has Bob been any different? He's neglected to make any big step to fix this team.

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 07:30 PM
Dude, Fud was a joke and I hated him long before the Oiler's left town. I have followed Houston football since the early '60's. And I can tell you that McNair has not come anywhere close to the asshattery that Fud pulled in the late '60's and early 70's.

I'm not sure Bud had any fans, long before leaving town. He's been an asshat since as long as I can remember.

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 07:30 PM
And in 9 years how has Bob been any different? He's neglected to make any big step to fix this team.

Answer this question, would Bud had given AJ his money last year???

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 07:32 PM
Answer this question, would Bud had given AJ his money last year???

NO!

Signed,
Earl Campbell, Warren Moon, Cris Dishman, et al.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 07:32 PM
Like I said he's just as bad but for different reasons. Just because he doesn't shoot the bird at other fans and act like an ass in public doesn't make him any worse of an owner for a franchise if you're main goal is supposed to be about winning. Bob's actions since he's been here for 9 years now suggest that his main goal as an owner is strictly profit. It's not winning. So as a fan whose main goal to see their team win and become successful, I could care less about Mcnair or Bud or any other owner's net profits every season. All I or any other fan should care about is what actions the owner takes to make his team a winner and Bob hasn't shown a strong commitment there as far as I'm concerned so that puts him right there with guys like Bud, Ralph Wilson and Mike Brown and a few others in bad company.

Yeah except he's not just as bad. Sorry, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Bob McNair is NOT as bad of a owner as Bud Adams. Bob McNair hires people then he gets out of the way and while it hasn't worked out yet, when he does hire the right people we're going to greatly enjoy having a owner who gets out of the way. Bud has actually HAD THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN PLACE and he still screws the pouch.

Just because Bob McNair has struggled as a owner, that doesn't make him near as bad as Bud. There's 32 owners in this league and if you were to rank them from best to worst there's a pretty sizable gap between Bob McNair and Bud Adams.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 07:32 PM
Thank YOU!!! Thank YOU!!! THANK YOU!! Spot on! 6 winning seasons in 16+ years.

What? I've heard you rep Fisher as a great HC like a Gazillion times in the past in year. Fisher was one of your top examples as to why Kubiak should have been retained after season 3 and season 4 actually. You said that Kubiak could be this next great coach like Fisher or Tom Landry if he had more time to build and that was part of your argument many times.

GP
01-27-2011, 07:34 PM
What's going to be awkward is when the Titans make the playoffs with their new coach before the Texans do.

Talk about weirdness.

Other teams have turned it around with a new coach. Titans could do it, too.

GP
01-27-2011, 07:35 PM
What? I've heard you rep Fisher as a great HC like a Gazillion times in the past in year. Fisher was one of your top examples as to why Kubiak should have been retained after season 3 and season 4 actually. You said that Kubiak could be this next great coach like Fisher or Tom Landry if he had more time to build and that was part of your argument many times.

This is going to get interesting.

:popcorn:

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 07:36 PM
Yeah except he's not just as bad. Sorry, but we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Bob McNair is NOT as bad of a owner as Bud Adams. Bob McNair hires people then he gets out of the way and while it hasn't worked out yet, when he does hire the right people we're going to greatly enjoy having a owner who gets out of the way. Bud has actually HAD THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN PLACE and he still screws the pouch.

Just because Bob McNair has struggled as a owner, that doesn't make him near as bad as Bud. There's 32 owners in this league and if you were to rank them from best to worst there's a pretty sizable gap between Bob McNair and Bud Adams.

So far he has been in the crowd with the worse ones. Our records and lack of accountability within this franchise are an indication of that especially after this season where we kept this whole "Smithiak" project going after year 5. Will that change one day if we ever get the right GM and HC in here that are great hires? Possibly, but that's certainly no guarantee that will happen any time soon or even in the next 20 years. I mean Bob came out publicly and said "We're on the right track" in year 5 of a terrible losing streak and embarrassing season in a 5 year failed regime. I don't know how poor it can get from a franchise owner to display that type of ambition.

JB
01-27-2011, 07:37 PM
Like I said he's just as bad but for different reasons. Just because he doesn't shoot the bird at other fans and act like an ass in public doesn't make him any worse of an owner for a franchise if you're main goal is supposed to be about winning. Bob's actions since he's been here for 9 years now suggest that his main goal as an owner is strictly profit. It's not winning. So as a fan whose main goal to see their team win and become successful, I could care less about Mcnair or Bud or any other owner's net profits every season. All I or any other fan should care about is what actions the owner takes to make his team a winner and Bob hasn't shown a strong commitment there as far as I'm concerned so that puts him right there with guys like Bud, Ralph Wilson and Mike Brown and a few others in bad company.

I think there is a fan of every team in the league that has said the same about their team owner. But I think that McNair tries very hard to have a winning team. He may be ignorant about what it takes, but he has shown he will spend the money. His problem is he has too much faith in a few people that are not as good as he thought they were.

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 07:42 PM
What? I've heard you rep Fisher as a great HC like a Gazillion times in the past in year. Fisher was one of your top examples as to why Kubiak should have been retained after season 3 and season 4 actually. You said that Kubiak could be this next great coach like Fisher or Tom Landry if he had more time to build and that was part of your argument many times.

Go back to the "Team Fisher" thread... He (for some reason) gets more rep. than he deserves. However, when you look at his record, he's nothing spectacular. The only times you've seen me compare to Kubiak to Fisher was when it came to the consecutive 8-8 seasons.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 07:44 PM
Nasty move by Adams to fire Fisher after all the head coaching jobs were filled.

Titans will be a worse team long term for this.

And this is why Bob McNair is a better owner. Tex can say shooting the bird doesn't really matter, but what reputable coach wants to work for a owner like that or a guy who holds on to a lame duck coach almost a month after the season is over and then fires him where he doesn't have a legit shot to get another job? Coaches around the league aren't complete dumbasses and they do look at that stuff.

For as bad as Bob McNair is, he still has reputable coaches like Cowher who would be open to coach for him...why? Because he does have class and whether people want to admit it or not....class counts for something. Even in Bud Adams' wet dreams he'd never have a shot at a accomplished coach like Bill Cowher, because he's a freaking ass clown on top of being a horrific owner. Jeff Fisher was a nobody when Adams hired him and that's the type of coach he's going to have to hire again.....some nobody, just like Al Davis is forced to do all the time. Fisher turned out to be solid, but that doesn't mean the next guy will. All the retreads/proven head coaches like Gruden, Cowher, etc will look elsewhere to get jobs. For all the different mistakes McNair has made, he isn't going to scare away good coaches.

Hervoyel
01-27-2011, 07:45 PM
There's one place where Bob McNair can't even begin to compare to Bud Adams. That would be "Remaining Time as Owner".

You see, Bud's already been as good as he's going to be and at the same time he probably can't get much worse than he's been. The "silver lining" to being a fan of a Bud Adams owned team is that you're at the end of the road. Soon Bud will shake off this mortal coil and leave the team to his heirs or whoever they end up selling it too. In most cases one would say "Better the devil you know...." but in this scenario it's not like they can do much worse.

On the other hand if you're a Texans fan you've spent about 10 years watching Bob McNair figure out about 2% (apparently) of what he needs to know in order to be a merely acceptable NFL owner. He's healthy, apparently blessed with eternal patience, and seems to believe just about anything any of the other NFL owners will tell him. In short we're in for another 20-25 years of watching him try to get this done.

The Titans fans will suffer far less in the long run than we will.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 07:46 PM
Answer this question, would Bud had given AJ his money last year???

Is this your only example? really? Because AJ got paid?

What happened with Aaron Glenn? Sharper after he had a nice season for us early on? After that there isn't many to even mention because this franchise has been so bad at even having top talent to even resign. Care to bring up all of the free agents out there that could have helped this team year after year in to fill holes? Or what about so many of the talented guys that were on the trading blocks at times where we never made any type of move?

And Bud would not have had to pay AJ first of all. AJ was not being paid pennies for one. He was already making a nice salary and had several years on his contract. AJ was really in no position to negotiate for the most part. It's nice that he got paid more money because in his case he deserved it, but if you're going to pin a ribbon on Mcnair's chest for a no brainer situation on a guy like AJ, at least be objective and look at his lack of commitment at other positions whether it be in quality depth, hiring a competent HC, or in quality free agents that could fill desperate holes on this team.

JB
01-27-2011, 07:46 PM
Nasty move by Adams to fire Fisher after all the head coaching jobs were filled.

Titans will be a worse team long term for this.

That is Fud Adams MO. Not the first time he has pulled crap like that.

JB
01-27-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm not sure Bud had any fans, long before leaving town. He's been an asshat since as long as I can remember.

Yeah, but you're a young damn whippersnapper! :kitten:

HoustonFrog
01-27-2011, 07:53 PM
I like Fisher but to me this was actually a smart move by the Titans. Radio will be gone. A coach whose act has gotten stale will be gone. They have talent on both sides. Bring in the right guy and and a vert QB and you might have a good mix to compete immediately. Maybe Bud saw the light. Sometimes answering questions is a bigger pain then asking them to yourself.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 07:53 PM
There's one place where Bob McNair can't even begin to compare to Bud Adams. That would be "Remaining Time as Owner".

You see, Bud's already been as good as he's going to be and at the same time he probably can't get much worse than he's been. The "silver lining" to being a fan of a Bud Adams owned team is that you're at the end of the road. Soon Bud will shake off this mortal coil and leave the team to his heirs or whoever they end up selling it too. In most cases one would say "Better the devil you know...." but in this scenario it's not like they can do much worse.

On the other hand if you're a Texans fan you've spent about 10 years watching Bob McNair figure out about 2% (apparently) of what he needs to know in order to be a merely acceptable NFL owner. He's healthy, apparently blessed with eternal patience, and seems to believe just about anything any of the other NFL owners will tell him. In short we're in for another 20-25 years of watching him try to get this done.

The Titans fans will suffer far less in the long run than we will.


Except I think I remember hearing that none of Bud Adams heirs want the team and in that market a sell could mean RELOCATION. Sorry, but I'd still take the stability of McNair (and hope for the best) over what's going on in TENN.

jaayteetx
01-27-2011, 07:53 PM
Buck Fud....that is all.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 07:55 PM
And this is why Bob McNair is a better owner. Tex can say shooting the bird doesn't really matter, but what reputable coach wants to work for a owner like that or a guy who holds on to a lame duck coach almost a month after the season is over and then fires him where he doesn't have a legit shot to get another job? Coaches around the league aren't complete dumbasses and they do look at that stuff.

For as bad as Bob McNair is, he still has reputable coaches like Cowher who would be open to coach for him...why? Because he does have class and whether people want to admit it or not....class counts for something. Even in Bud Adams' wet dreams he'd never have a shot at a accomplished coach like Bill Cowher, because he's a freaking ass clown on top of being a horrific owner. Jeff Fisher was a nobody when Adams hired him and that's the type of coach he's going to have to hire again.....some nobody, just like Al Davis is forced to do all the time. Fisher turned out to be solid, but that doesn't mean the next guy will. All the retreads/proven head coaches like Gruden, Cowher, etc will look elsewhere to get jobs. For all the different mistakes McNair has made, he isn't going to scare away good coaches.

Again, he's not in the same mold as Bud Adams. Very different, but very similar results in the success column and much worse than Bud in the last 9 years. Bob hasn't been around the league near as long to show that his tendencies as a poor owner will continue down this same path or improve with shrewdness combined with a strong commitment to winning. We'll see what the future holds. But all we can do right now for discussion sake is compare his 9 years at this point and his 9 years have been dreadful and embarrassing to be frank. And according to Bob "We're on the right track." That last statement is the most disturbing part and none of Bud's middle finger antics scare me more than an owner who thinks that way in a 6-10 season of a 5 year regime. I just don't see how that type of attitude can even remotely be excused.

JB
01-27-2011, 08:01 PM
Is this your only example? really? Because AJ got paid?

What happened with Aaron Glenn? Sharper after he had a nice season for us early on? After that there isn't many to even mention because this franchise has been so bad at even having top talent to even resign. Care to bring up all of the free agents out there that could have helped this team year after year in to fill holes? Or what about so many of the talented guys that were on the trading blocks at times where we never made any type of move?

And Bud would not have had to pay AJ first of all. AJ was not being paid pennies for one. He was already making a nice salary and had several years on his contract. AJ was really in no position to negotiate for the most part. It's nice that he got paid more money because in his case he deserved it, but if you're going to pin a ribbon on Mcnair's chest for a no brainer situation on a guy like AJ, at least be objective and look at his lack of commitment at other positions whether it be in quality depth, hiring a competent HC, or in quality free agents that could fill desperate holes on this team.

I don't know why you pin this all on McNair instead of the people he hired. Do you really want him to be his own GM like Jerrah?

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 08:01 PM
Again, he's not in the same mold as Bud Adams. Very different, but very similar results in the success column and much worse than Bud in the last 9 years. Bob hasn't been around the league near as long to show that his tendencies as a poor owner will continue down this same path or improve with shrewdness combined with a strong commitment to winning. We'll see what the future holds. But all we can do right now for discussion sake is compare his 9 years at this point and his 9 years have been dreadful and embarrassing to be frank. And according to Bob "We're on the right track." That last statement is the most disturbing part and none of Bud's middle finger antics scare me more than an owner who thinks that way in a 6-10 season of a 5 year regime. I just don't see how that type of attitude can even remotely be excused.

Again...when McNair gets the right guy in place that patience will pay off BIG TIME. I judge G.M.'s and coaches on wins and losses. I judge Owners on how they conduct themselves and how they represent their product which is what is going to make good coaches want to coach a certain team. Good reputable coaches don't want to coach for Bud Adams and while that might just be my opinion, we'll see who he's able to lure to that team. People look at the middle fingers, how he handled the Young and Fisher fiasco and I can almost guarantee you his options are going to be limited. If McNair was wise enough to move on from Kubiak this offseason, he would've been able to land a big name in here.....if he fires Kubiak next season, he'll still have the opportunity to land a big name in here. We'll see who Adams is able to pull from the bottom of the barrel. LOL, maybe he can hire Tom Cable

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 08:05 PM
Cowher got to one Super Bowl (and lost) and two other AFC Championship Games before he got Roethlisberger; he did so with QBs Kordell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell.

Fisher got to one Super Bowl (and lost) and one other AFC Championship Game; he did so with QB Steve McNair.

I'm not saying Cowher sucks, nor am I saying that Fisher is a better coach. I'm saying that it took Cowher 14 seasons to win a Super Bowl and he only did so after getting his franchise QB; that can't be a coincidence, can it?

Cowher's regular season record blows Fisher's out of the water, no question about it. But Cowher also didn't take over a struggling franchise that was about to move three times in four years. If you want to count this one as an excuse in Fisher's favor and it carries no merit then you can throw that out. But I do think it's legit.

I like this:
Honestly what's the difference between Jeff Fisher the head coach and Wade Phillips the head coach? Will somebody please tell me, because the only difference I can see is the music city miracle and Wade's aw shucks personality.

The beautiful thing about coaching is that your success is usually tied to the ability of your players. Of course you're going to have your coaches who are absolutely phenomenal player-development guys and make their own success. Look at Belicheck, he struggled through his tenure in Cleveland, then took over a rough NE team. What turned it around for Belicheck? Of course I'm not comparing Fisher to Belicheck, that would be asinine. But you get the point, Dungy didn't win one until he got Peyton Manning and it still took him a couple of years. Some guys do it through defense: was Ditka an outstanding coach? He won three playoff games in 13 years other than 1985, he won the Super Bowl with the best defense ever. What about Brian Billick? He won only a single playoff game outside of 2000, a year in which he had one of the best defenses ever assembled, and won his division only twice in nine years.

And this isn't supposed to be in support of Fisher. His record is mediocre and I agree that he is overrated. But if you want to be so adamant about Fisher's mediocrity and praise Cowher, look at their careers and think. If the one main goal is to win a Super Bowl, then Cowher doesn't destroy Fisher in terms of his career. If it's about winning in the regular season, then Fisher can't hold Marty Schottenheimer's jock (and you may not think he can, but Fish has a Super Bowl appearance in less time).

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 08:12 PM
Cowher got to one Super Bowl (and lost) and two other AFC Championship Games before he got Roethlisberger; he did so with QBs Krodell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell.

Fisher got to one Super Bowl (and lost) and one other AFC Championship Game; he did so with QB Steve McNair.

I'm not saying Cowher sucks, nor am I saying that Fisher is a better coach. I'm saying that it took Cowher 14 seasons to win a Super Bowl and he only did so after getting his franchise QB; that can't be a coincidence, can it?

Cowher's regular season record blows Fisher's out of the water, no question about it. But Cowher also didn't take over a struggling franchise that was about to move three times in four years. If you want to count this one as an excuse in Fisher's favor and it carries no merit then you can throw that out. But I do think it's legit.

I like this:


The beautiful thing about coaching is that your success is usually tied to the ability of your players. Of course you're going to have your coaches who are absolutely phenomenal player-development guys and make their own success. Look at Belicheck, he struggled thorugh his tenure in Cleveland, then took over a rough NE team. What turned it around for Belicheck? Of course I'm not comparing Fisher to Belicheck, that would be asinine. But you get the point, Dungy didn't win one until he got Peyton Manning and it still took him a couple of years. Some guys do it through defense: was Ditka an outstanding coach? He won three playoff games in 13 years other than 1985, he wont the Super Bowl with the best defense ever. What about Brian Billick? He won only a single playoff game outside of 2000, a year in which he had one of the best defenses ever assembled, and won his division only twice in nine years.

And this isn't supposed to be in support of Fisher. His record is mediocre and I agree that he is overrated. But if you want to be so adamant about Fisher's mediocrity and praise Cowher, look at their careers and think. If the one main goal is to win a Super Bowl, then Cowher doesn't destroy Fisher in terms of his career. If it's about winning in the regular season, then Fisher can't hold Marty Schottenheimer's jock (and you may not think he can, but Fish has a Super Bowl appearance in less time).

LOL, you just admitted that Fisher is a mediocre coach, but still want people to look at him in the same light as Cowher.

Bill Cowher is >>>>>>>>> than Jeff Fisher ever was and ever will be.

They aren't even remotely comparable so I'm not going to waste any more time entertaining that topic and it's not that I can't...I just don't feel like it. Again, not worth my time.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 08:20 PM
LOL, you just admitted that Fisher is a mediocre coach, but still want people to look at him in the same light as Cowher.

Bill Cowher is >>>>>>>>> than Jeff Fisher ever was and ever will be.

They aren't even remotely comparable so I'm not going to waste any more time entertaining that topic and it's not that I can't...I just don't feel like it. Again, not worth my time.

Why are they not comparable? Please, waste your time so I can dive into that head of yours. I want you to convince me. I really don't see a huge difference in their careers before Cowher got Roethlisberger. If you want to cite regular season wins then take them. I want a Super Bowl and that's what coaches are measured by.

Before Roethlisberger, Cowher was getting the same flak as Manning often got before 2007. That he could win in the regular season but never win the big one. It's not a coincidence.

And, once again, this isn't about Fisher vs Cowher. It's about the myth that Cowher is a great coach. I would be upset if Cowher were to come to Nashville because it would be the same as Fisher. He wouldn't have a QB.

Hell, Cowher was 11-12 (0-1 playoffs) against Fisher in his career. WHEW!!! Cowher >>>>>>> Fisher!

Wolf
01-27-2011, 08:29 PM
best thing that happened with fisher is Eddie George got hurt and Fisher had to let McNair take over.. after that...Fisher was so much better with balance . however ... things got screwy with drafting of vince and not letting mcnair tutor him
(may or may not have helped but wouldn't have hurt being they were about the same coming into the league)

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 08:32 PM
best thing that happened with fisher is Eddie George got hurt and Fisher had to let McNair take over.. after that...Fisher was so much better with balance . however ... things got screwy with drafting of vince and not letting mcnair tutor him
(may or may not have helped but wouldn't have hurt being they were about the same coming into the league)

Many in Nashville don't think McNair wanted that role anyway. Bud calling for VY is what put the franchise in this position, IMO at least. Fisher's case wasn't helped with the '08 playoff loss then the subsequent 0-6 start in '09, and now here we are.

.. and I supported the VY pick, and his first few years. After the Jags game I started to change my mind, then after the Washington debacle this year he was done in my book. Looking back though Bud screwed the Titans the moment he made that decision (sure you guys love that :lol: )

kiwitexansfan
01-27-2011, 08:37 PM
Thank YOU!!! Thank YOU!!! THANK YOU!! Spot on! 6 winning seasons in 16+ years.

Is that right? Only 6 winning seasons?

Wouldn't have believed it if it weren't from such a reliable source and I wasn't too lazy to employ my google-fu.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 08:38 PM
Why are they not comparable? Please, waste your time so I can dive into that head of yours. I want you to convince me. I really don't see a huge difference in their careers before Cowher got Roethlisberger. If you want to cite regular season wins then take them. I want a Super Bowl and that's what coaches are measured by.

Before Roethlisberger, Cowher was getting the same flak as Manning often got before 2007. That he could win in the regular season but never win the big one. It's not a coincidence.

And, once again, this isn't about Fisher vs Cowher. It's about the myth that Cowher is a great coach. I would be upset if Cowher were to come to Nashville because it would be the same as Fisher. He wouldn't have a QB.

Hell, Cowher was 11-12 (0-1 playoffs) against Fisher in his career. WHEW!!! Cowher >>>>>>> Fisher!


:rolleyes: In 15 seasons as a head coach in the NFL, Bill Cowher only had 3 losing seasons and his worst record was 6-10. Like I said, I'm not going to get in a hour long debate between Bill Cowher and Jeff Fisher, because it's nonsense. Jeff Fisher is no where near Bill Cowher.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 08:41 PM
Again, you can have the regular season, and again, this is not a comparison between the two. How is Cowher a great coach?

If you want to end it fine... as long as I get the last word because that means I won.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 08:44 PM
Is that right? Only 6 winning seasons?

Wouldn't have believed it if it weren't from such a reliable source and I wasn't too lazy to employ my google-fu.

Yes. Only 6 winning seasons, he was BY FAR the most overrated coach in the NFL. The media portrayed him like he was a top tier coach in the league, but he wasn't.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 08:46 PM
Again, you can have the regular season, and again, this is not a comparison between the two. How is Cowher a great coach?

If you want to end it fine... as long as I get the last word because that means I won.

LMAO...yeah you sure won that argument :rolleyes:

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 08:53 PM
Yes. Only 6 winning seasons, he was BY FAR the most overrated coach in the NFL. The media portrayed him like he was a top tier coach in the league, but he wasn't.

Well, in all fairness, he did have 3 consecutive 8-8 seasons. :smiliedance:

So, he had 9 non-losing seasons.. :francis:

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 09:01 PM
Can I ask you... is Mike Shanahan a great NFL coach?

JB
01-27-2011, 09:04 PM
Can I ask you... is Mike Shanahan a great NFL coach?

No.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 09:09 PM
Can I ask you... is Mike Shanahan a great NFL coach?

He's better than Jeff Fisher. :)

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 09:11 PM
No doubt, but don't skirt the question.

stingray
01-27-2011, 09:14 PM
You guys might wanna check out a thread I made about Cowher's record with and without LeBeau.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 09:15 PM
No doubt, but don't skirt the question.

He was a very good head coach when he had capable play callers. He won with Elway, had success with Plummer, and the story was incomplete with Cutler. When he has a QB who can run his offense he's a very good coach.

I'm not skirting shit BTW..just don't feel the need to get baited into some asinine discussion on how Jeff Fisher compares to Bill Cowher. Nice try with the Mike Shanahan bait though....didn't work.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 09:18 PM
You guys might wanna check out a thread I made about Cowher's record with and without LeBeau.

You might want to provide a link then :)

stingray
01-27-2011, 09:19 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79640

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 09:22 PM
I'm not skirting shit BTW..just don't feel the need to get baited into some asinine discussion on how Jeff Fisher compares to Bill Cowher. Nice try with the Mike Shanahan bait though....didn't work.

:gun: :wadepalm:

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 09:26 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79640

So without the HOFer Dick Lebeau....Bill Cowher STILL has a higher winning % than Jeff Fisher. Thanks for the link, it supports my argument :)

Gee I wonder what Fisher's record would be without the heart and soul of his defense being coached by Jim Washburn. We can play this game all day.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 09:28 PM
:gun: :wadepalm:

What's the matter...truth hurts?

LMAO, how can anybody in their right mind actually think Fisher is a better coach than Bill Cowher or anywhere near the same level.. Oh wait I forgot, you don't even think he is...you just want to keep arguing on his behalf
:kubepalm: (See I can do a face palm also :) )

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 09:29 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79640

Thank you for that.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 09:35 PM
What's the matter...truth hurts?

LMAO, how can anybody in their right mind actually think Fisher is a better coach and Bill Cowher.. Oh wait I forgot, you don't even think he is...you just want to keep arguing on his behalf
:kubepalm: (See I can do a face palm also)


The great think about this is that you are serious. I have said two or three times that this isn't about Fisher vs Cowher. Just that Cowher is not a great coach. I brought it up because someone, maybe you I don't know, said how much they want Cowher if Kubiak starts out slow next season. That sentiment was heard a few weeks back when half this board was pleading for McNair to let Kubiak walk and hire Cowher, but I don't believe I said anything then.

You think I'm arguing for Fisher because of the team I support. In reality I'm simply responding to a lot of your fellow fans willing to break the bank for Cowher under the assumption that he would be a savior.

Maybe it would help if I went back and changed the original post to, "The difference between Marty Schottenheimer and Cowher is Ben Roethlisberger and Dick LeBeau. Think about it."

JB
01-27-2011, 09:39 PM
A winning team is not just about the coach. It's about the whole staff and the players and the FO. If any of the three is not up to par, the team will struggle. A great coach is like a Lombardi or Walsh that can fit their system to the players they have.

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 09:43 PM
A winning team is not just about the coach. It's about the whole staff and the players and the FO. If any of the three is not up to par, the team will struggle. A great coach is like a Lombardi or Walsh or Bum Phillips that can fit their system to the players they have.

Just sayin'!!! :runaway:

steelbtexan
01-27-2011, 09:47 PM
A winning team is not just about the coach. It's about the whole staff and the players and the FO. If any of the three is not up to par, the team will struggle. A great coach is like a Lombardi or Walsh that can fit their system to the players they have.

And most importantly the owner.

Not a Fisher fan,but having to deal with Bud and his cronies for 16 yrs. Fisher deserves a medal.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 09:50 PM
A winning team is not just about the coach. It's about the whole staff and the players and the FO. If any of the three is not up to par, the team will struggle. A great coach is like a Lombardi or Walsh that can fit their system to the players they have.


Stop defending Fisher, just stop.

JB
01-27-2011, 09:51 PM
Just sayin'!!! :runaway:

Yeah, I will agree with you there...



And can add in Guy V. Lewis!

JB
01-27-2011, 09:51 PM
Stop defending Fisher, just stop.

What?

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 10:00 PM
what?

lol

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 10:00 PM
Yeah, I will agree with you there...



And can add in Guy V. Lewis!

:strangle: I'm just sayin' when it comes to Guy V.!!!! :pissed:

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 10:02 PM
Anyways...

How about this question. Who is rumored to be the replacement. I'm sure people are already talking about that. What are people saying in Tenn?

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 10:02 PM
Anyways...

How about this question. Who is rumored to be the replacement. I'm sure people are already talking about that. What are people saying in Tenn?

they think they are getting Cowher. :spit:

JB
01-27-2011, 10:03 PM
:strangle: I'm just sayin' when it comes to Guy V.!!!! :pissed:

One of the biggest tragedies of all time!

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 10:05 PM
Wyatt has mentioned Mike Munchak as the "leading candidate." Personally I hope not. I would want an offensive mind but Munchak seems like he would be too much like Fisher, conservative. My mind went straight to Mangini when I heard this since they were already in DC talks. I don't think so now though since it sounds like Fisher made this decision. I would have hated Mangini.

Carr Bombed
01-27-2011, 10:05 PM
they think they are getting Cowher. :spit:


Really?

GlassHalfFull
01-27-2011, 10:10 PM
Really?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1643305&postcount=23

Texan_Bill
01-27-2011, 10:11 PM
One of the biggest tragedies of all time!

Yeah man, that shite ain't right!!!

Texanator
01-27-2011, 10:45 PM
So Jeff Fisher is also out in Tenn.

Any chance he might come here?

Would you want him here?

What job might he have if he did?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Wolf
01-27-2011, 10:47 PM
no chance that he would be here, i have no positions for him

Lucky
01-27-2011, 10:48 PM
If this is indeed true, Fisher will have a job fairly quickly.
All the chairs have been filled. Well, except the one in Nashville.

The only times you've seen me compare to Kubiak to Fisher was when it came to the consecutive 8-8 seasons.
It wasn't just you, but many pro-Kubiak fans have used Fisher as an example of allowing a head coach time to figure it out. To turn around now and suggest that Fisher is overrated (which may hold some truth) seems hypocritical.


Not a Fisher fan,but having to deal with Bud and his cronies for 16 yrs. Fisher deserves a medal.
For that alone, I'd give the guy a bust in Canton.

Fisher may be overrated by Texan fans because they've seen him out-coach their head coach on a consistent basis. Maybe it's because our guys have sucked so hard is why Fisher seems like a good head coach?

God help us if the Titans and their new head coach finish above the Texans in 2011.

texansdrummer
01-27-2011, 10:51 PM
Yeah...that'd be brilliant. May as well get Vince Young while we're at it.
:vincepalm:

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 10:55 PM
The great think about this is that you are serious. I have said two or three times that this isn't about Fisher vs Cowher. Just that Cowher is not a great coach. I brought it up because someone, maybe you I don't know, said how much they want Cowher if Kubiak starts out slow next season. That sentiment was heard a few weeks back when half this board was pleading for McNair to let Kubiak walk and hire Cowher, but I don't believe I said anything then.

You think I'm arguing for Fisher because of the team I support. In reality I'm simply responding to a lot of your fellow fans willing to break the bank for Cowher under the assumption that he would be a savior.

Maybe it would help if I went back and changed the original post to, "The difference between Marty Schottenheimer and Cowher is Ben Roethlisberger and Dick LeBeau. Think about it."

Stop. Just stop. Cowher is not only a great coach, but he's going to be a HOF coach. And that's not even a question. His legacy for that is already there. You want to sit here and honestly act like Ben is the reason why Cowher has a ring? GTFO with that. Ben played terrible in that SB that they won with Cowher. They despite Ben actually and Ben was no world beater that season either. Hell, in Ben's first season when his numbers were terrible and he was nothing but a game manager the Steelers went 15-1 and lost to the Dynasty Patriots in the AFC Championship game. Cowher had also almost made the SB with Kordell freaking Stewart and the 2nd round even with Tommy Maddox. Maddox!! Oh, I forgot that was all because of Lebeau. Lol!

This current team that won another SB and is there again was built by Cowher. It's ran the exact same way practically and it's got a ton of the same personal. And Cowher did take over a pretty bad team when he first got to the Steelers. He didn't somehow inherit some great team. Where did you get that stuff from? Cowher is one of the greatest coaches for the fact no matter if he had a down year or not he could always regroup and bounce right back the next season or two and become a contender again. Very few coaches in the history of the NFL have had that type of ability to do that consistently over a period like that and get a ring at the end of the day.

JCTexan
01-27-2011, 10:59 PM
So Jeff Fisher is also out in Tenn.

Any chance he might come here?

Would you want him here?

What job might he have if he did?

Inquiring minds want to know!

I would say there is close to a 0% chance he ends up in Houston. I don't see Fisher taking less than a DC job right now. Just curious, does Fisher have any experience in the 3-4?

Lucky
01-27-2011, 11:06 PM
Just curious, does Fisher have any experience in the 3-4?
Not really. Fisher was the Niners DB coach in '92 & '93, when they were in a 3-4. But, he never implemented the system as a coordinator or a head coach.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 11:07 PM
All the chairs have been filled. Well, except the one in Nashville.


It wasn't just you, but many pro-Kubiak fans have used Fisher as an example of allowing a head coach time to figure it out. To turn around now and suggest that Fisher is overrated (which may hold some truth) seems hypocritical.

Oh I remember. Fisher was a total benchmark example many of times for the Kubes supporters to suggest he needed extra seasons to turn this franchise into some long term winner. The Fisher and Landry comparisons were like a dynamic duo. I can't believe that the same guys are actually bashing Fisher now when he was the measuring stick of success through patience of his tenure just 12 months ago. Very interesting how things have changed. Lol!


For that alone, I'd give the guy a bust in Canton.

Fisher may be overrated by Texan fans because they've seen him out-coach their head coach on a consistent basis. Maybe it's because our guys have sucked so hard is why Fisher seems like a good head coach?

Fisher has been a very good coach. One thing that I find funny as well is that on one hand Bud was this horrible owner that wouldn't retain any of his players ever or bring in any talent according to some, but then the same people still criticize Fisher for being some overrated coach. You can't have it both ways and criticize Bud as this anti christ or NFL owners that is destined to lose, but then act like Fisher was a bad coach because he couldn't win under that bad owner that was such an alleged franchise killer.

Personally I think Fisher over achieved a lot throughout his tenure there. He wasn't quite as good as Cowher, but he wasn't that far from him either in my opinion.

Yvette
01-27-2011, 11:10 PM
... Bud is still the flag man on the tracks. Houston was only the "practice run."
He's the common denominator in all his teams failures.

Just a quick visit to titanstailgate.com and most of them seem pretty happy about this. At least most who have posted on this so far.
I'm dreading the immediate future. It's taken 20 years for the Chiefs to turn it around and Lamar Hunt had to die before it could happen. He was nothing like Bud, either.

By the way, we all got season ticket renewal notices in the mail recently. Decisions, decisions.

Lucky
01-27-2011, 11:11 PM
Personally I think Fisher over achieved a lot throughout his tenure there. He wasn't quite as good as Cowher, but he wasn't that far from him either in my opinion.
I agree with this. Fisher will get another shot, and I believe he will have success. But, he needs a good personnel guy.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 11:11 PM
Stop. Just stop. Cowher is not only a great coach, but he's going to be a HOF coach. And that's not even a question. His legacy for that is already there. You want to sit here and honestly act like Ben is the reason why Cowher has a ring? GTFO with that. Ben played terrible in that SB that they won with Cowher. They despite Ben actually and Ben was no world beater that season either. Hell, in Ben's first season when his numbers were terrible and he was nothing but a game manager the Steelers went 15-1 and lost to the Dynasty Patriots in the AFC Championship game. Cowher had also almost made the SB with Kordell freaking Stewart and the 2nd round even with Tommy Maddox. Maddox!! Oh, I forgot that was all because of Lebeau. Lol!

This current team that won another SB and is there again was built by Cowher. It's ran the exact same way practically and it's got a ton of the same personal. And Cowher did take over a pretty bad team when he first got to the Steelers. He didn't somehow inherit some great team. Where did you get that stuff from? Cowher is one of the greatest coaches for the fact no matter if he had a down year or not he could always regroup and bounce right back the next season or two and become a contender again. Very few coaches in the history of the NFL have had that type of ability to do that consistently over a period like that and get a ring at the end of the day.

And if Cowher gets into the Hall of Fame we can have this same argument. I've said my piece, but I'll add that Ben has two rings (probably about to get his third) one of those without Cowher.

Personally I think Fisher over achieved a lot throughout his tenure there. He wasn't quite as good as Cowher, but he wasn't that far from him either in my opinion.

OK, I don't necessarily disagree with the bold part, but that makes your other post sound crazy. I wouldn't put Fisher anywhere near Canton yet you've already inducted Cowher, and then you said their careers are comparable.

Lucky
01-27-2011, 11:18 PM
...but I'll add that Ben has two rings (probably about to get his third) one of those without Cowher.
What's ironic is that we have had recent discussions here suggesting that the only difference between Roethlisberger and Matt Schaub is that Ben has the Steelers defense. A lot of "chicken or the egg" arguments popping up.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 11:22 PM
What's ironic is that we have had recent discussions here suggesting that the only difference between Roethlisberger and Matt Schaub is that Ben has the Steelers defense. A lot of "chicken or the egg" arguments popping up.


That's a fair point and one you can't easily dismiss. Ben's stats aren't crazy good and that defense has been incredible for years. A QB "managing the game" tends to get a bad name. If it were easy more teams with great defenses would have Super Bowl rings.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 11:23 PM
And if Cowher gets into the Hall of Fame we can have this same argument. I've said my piece, but I'll add that Ben has two rings (probably about to get his third) one of those without Cowher.

So now Ben's two rings mean that it was because of him and not Cowher on the first one when Ben was hardly even looked at by most as a great NFL QB? Lol! Geez, I'm about as big of a fan of Ben as you'll find, but get off of it. The Steelers main recipe of their success has been their defensive dominance over the last decade. Who do you think built this defense that is there now? You think Cowher had no say so in who was drafted the last 15 years and that it wasn't Cowher that wanted Lebeau in the first place as their DC? Cowher was a defensive coach before he was ever a HC as well and he's been a damn good defensive mind for years. And who do you think wanted Ben in the first place? Cowher, that's who. Ben was not some highly touted QB that teams all over the league were after. Cowher's teams won a ton before Ben ever got there, they won when Ben was a rookie who hardly was even allowed to pass, and don't forget that the Steelers were still winning games this season when Ben was suspended under Charlie Batch. Ben is not this missing link to the Steelers success like you're trying to make people believe.

GP
01-27-2011, 11:24 PM
And if Cowher gets into the Hall of Fame we can have this same argument. I've said my piece, but I'll add that Ben has two rings (probably about to get his third) one of those without Cowher.

Switzer has a ring, too, and that means he piggy-backed off Jimmy Johnson's success.

The Steelers organization has a lot of good things going for it. Cowher was one of those. Tomlin came in as a guy who had to continue what Cowher and others had built before him. Tomlin could have screwed it up. He didn't.

Besides, the Super Bowl that Cowher lost to the Cowboys was against THE COWBOYS of the 90s. I mean, they were beastly. They were IT back then, and so I don't knock Cowher for not winning that one. He was THERE. And he's been there more than once.

From the owner, to the GM, to the scouts, to the coaches and assistants, and everywhere in-between...that Steelers organization has a lot of GOOD that's been going on for a long time. And Cowher is a piece of that puzzle.

Look at your team. Outside of the one SB appearance, it can't even be looked at in the same vein as the consistency of Cowher's Steelers teams. Again, not just due to each HC...but rather by looking at ALL the pieces of the puzzle.

And I also believe that your team is just as capable as the Falcons proved to be when it comes to turning dicey situations into something better. You guys could easily snap back to form and kick butt in the AFC South, especially if the new guy finds a way to have fresh eyes for the stale approach Fisher was taking with the team over the past several years.

Elway, it should be noted, didn't go to a Super Bowl every year. He didn't even win a SB until the end of his career and he's considered to be in the top tier of NFL QBs to have played the game. I think lots of things came together for Elway and Shanahan to win a SB (Terrell Davis was HUGE in that regard). So it's OK to say that Big Ben needed Cowher just as much as Cowher needed Big Ben. And Tomlin's success is not stand alone, either. I'd like to see him do the same thing by going and becoming a head coach with Buffalo or Oakland.

If I had to choose who I want to instill a winning attitude within my team, I'm choosing Cowher over Fisher. Easily.

Hookem Horns
01-27-2011, 11:24 PM
I'm dreading the immediate future. It's taken 20 years for the Chiefs to turn it around and Lamar Hunt had to die before it could happen. He was nothing like Bud, either.


Bud might have 20 more minutes on this earth not years, unless the dude is a vampire which judging by his looks lately it could be possible.

Texecutioner
01-27-2011, 11:28 PM
OK, I don't necessarily disagree with the bold part, but that makes your other post sound crazy. I wouldn't put Fisher anywhere near Canton yet you've already inducted Cowher, and then you said their careers are comparable.

Why? If you read my post I spoke pretty much nothing but positive things about Fisher. I don't agree with anyone about Fisher being "overrated."

And whether or not you or I think or don't think or agree or disagree about Cowher being HOF worthy, I can assure you that he'll be there. Many sports analysts have talked about it for years and his credentials are easily worthy.

Yvette
01-27-2011, 11:42 PM
Bud might have 20 more minutes on this earth not years, unless the dude is a vampire which judging by his looks lately it could be possible.
Can you do me a favor? Photoshop a pic of the Titanic breaking apart in the middle of our flooded field from last May. I need to laugh through my pain. I could use a garlic rope, too, for the next time Bud comes into town.

Bulluck53
01-27-2011, 11:52 PM
So now Ben's two rings mean that it was because of him and not Cowher on the first one when Ben was hardly even looked at by most as a great NFL QB? Lol! Geez, I'm about as big of a fan of Ben as you'll find, but get off of it. The Steelers main recipe of their success has been their defensive dominance over the last decade. Who do you think built this defense that is there now? You think Cowher had no say so in who was drafted the last 15 years and that it wasn't Cowher that wanted Lebeau in the first place as their DC? Cowher was a defensive coach before he was ever a HC as well and he's been a damn good defensive mind for years. And who do you think wanted Ben in the first place? Cowher, that's who. Ben was not some highly touted QB that teams all over the league were after. Cowher's teams won a ton before Ben ever got there, they won when Ben was a rookie who hardly was even allowed to pass, and don't forget that the Steelers were still winning games this season when Ben was suspended under Charlie Batch. Ben is not this missing link to the Steelers success like you're trying to make people believe.

There is no doubt that Cowher made his imprint on that organization and that it is still seen in the current team, and that's not what I'm arguing. I'm also not saying Ben is some incredible quarterback that could win with anybody. I'm simply noting that its not a coincidence that Cowher didn't win one before Ben, just like Shanahan hasn't won without Elway. That's not the end all, be all in the equation of a great coach, but I think it comes into play in the big scheme.

GP, very good post and I agree with just about everything in it. There is no comparison between the two organizations.

spurstexanstros
01-28-2011, 12:13 AM
I told you not to park in his spot coach
- Sean Jones


I cant believe it..turn off the comp to take care of sick kid and whammo this happens.
Is Bud Adams YES a Moron ..I couldnt even finish my thought about him before I said yes...

spurstexanstros
01-28-2011, 12:16 AM
As soon as I thought who would they hire...guess who popped up on NFLN.

Dom Capers....you heard it here first.

Do you think Bud is that YES Stupid ..dang did it again.

Bulluck53
01-28-2011, 12:23 AM
Spurs, I've heard that name as well. That would be unfortunate.

Clayton just mentioned Munchak, Dave McGinnis and Heimerdinger. I can't see Dinger being offered/accepting that though.

spurstexanstros
01-28-2011, 12:34 AM
The AFC South has changed dramatically this year. The Colts are getting old and are about to tie up most if not all of their money on one guy. the Titans look like they could be really bad next year no VY no ,fisher. Who knows what the heck they are doing in LA errrr Jacksonville.

Is it safe to say the Texans have the most stable franchise in the division?maybe. until # 18 is gone and we are in the playoffs I think the Colts still are...Is there any chance of falling Pianos at the pro bowl or would Peyton part it like he did the red sea?

Bulluck53
01-28-2011, 12:42 AM
Haha Peyton is about indestructible... pianos have nothing on the guy. It will be even more interesting next season if neither Houston or Jax make the playoffs.

Thorn
01-28-2011, 05:57 AM
Haha Peyton is about indestructible... pianos have nothing on the guy. It will be even more interesting next season if neither Houston or Jax make the playoffs.

....if there is a next season.

Señor Stan
01-28-2011, 06:07 AM
Credit to JDizzle for this pic....


http://i56.tinypic.com/2yy8evp.jpg

BigBull17
01-28-2011, 07:15 AM
In typical Bud Adams fashion, he waits till all the jobs are filled to part ways with his coach. Prevents him from getting a job.

Koolaid Time
01-28-2011, 07:25 AM
In typical Bud Adams fashion, he waits till all the jobs are filled to part ways with his coach. Prevents him from getting a job.

That's OK. ESPN, Fox Sports, CBS etc. are hiring.

thunderkyss
01-28-2011, 07:59 AM
Lots of great discussion on this topic. However, it seems to be only a handful who see what I've seen. Jeff Fischer has had some good people to work with in Tennessee, and his accomplishments aren't as great as they should have been.

I think he's a good head coach, but not great. The difference between the two isn't as large as what some would have you believe. IMO, bringing Fisher back to Houston would not be an upgrade over Kubiak. Our defense would be better, our offense would be worse, we'd win about 7-9 games a year.

What's going to be awkward is when the Titans make the playoffs with their new coach before the Texans do.

Talk about weirdness.

Other teams have turned it around with a new coach. Titans could do it, too.

I know this is the most popular sentiment around here. But I think it is way off base. "Turned it around" is a relative statement. Anyone going to Tennessee right now would find a team that expects to win. Sure you'll have a few people there with the 9-5 attitude, the "I'm set if I make the team" attitude, but of the 53 players, and the management team, I would be 90% of them are there to win games. With maybe 30% working towards winning a Super Bowl.

In 2006, I think Texans had 20% of it's organization trying to win games, & less than 10% working towards a championship. Today, I think we're closer to 90% working towards winning & 40%-50% working towards a Super Bowl.

I know the W/L is important, & right now it doesn't show that the Texans have turned anything around. But you know, if you've ever been in a leadership position, mindsets have to be changed first.

There are several things that has led me to believe the Texans' mindset has changed for the better. Biggest among those is letting Dunta Robinson go. Letting Reeves go, Letting Okam go (finally). There are things those players said & did, that had me questioning their commitment to winning. Another thing, I don't know what the media exposure of the Texans was like during the Capers years, I was a very casual fan back then. But now, just about every player has a radio show, or is quoted in the papers almost daily (during the season). & to a T, they all repeat the same message. They don't take stabs at each other, & they'll defend each other. You never hear (at least I haven't) the offense blame the defense, or the defense blame the offense. You don't hear the secondary blaming the DL, or the LBs blaming the secondary, or the old guys blaming the rookies, or the rookies blaming the old guys. They're very united, & like I said to a T after every game, to explain the loss each player I heard would talk about what they could have done to win the game.

Arian rushes for 158, he'll tell you about a touchdown he missed, or a pass he should have caught, or a block he should have made.

In no way am I excusing Kubiak's performance here. Nor am I saying I am happy, or satisfied with what Kubiak has done. Like many others, I believe Kubiak has done as much as he can do for this team. I think we are in a better position now, than we were at the end of the 2005 season.

I think we have a team that believes they can win. For some reason, they (not I) believe they can win with Kubiak. I don't know how much longer that will be the case. If I were making the decisions, I wouldn't have chanced it, again. 2009 should have been the year, 2010 was dismal. If we have another dismal year, & with the CBA & all that, chances are we will, this team may fall apart, & we truly will be starting over.

GP
01-28-2011, 08:35 AM
Lots of great discussion on this topic. However, it seems to be only a handful who see what I've seen. Jeff Fischer has had some good people to work with in Tennessee, and his accomplishments aren't as great as they should have been.

I think he's a good head coach, but not great. The difference between the two isn't as large as what some would have you believe. IMO, bringing Fisher back to Houston would not be an upgrade over Kubiak. Our defense would be better, our offense would be worse, we'd win about 7-9 games a year.



I know this is the most popular sentiment around here. But I think it is way off base. "Turned it around" is a relative statement. Anyone going to Tennessee right now would find a team that expects to win. Sure you'll have a few people there with the 9-5 attitude, the "I'm set if I make the team" attitude, but of the 53 players, and the management team, I would be 90% of them are there to win games. With maybe 30% working towards winning a Super Bowl.

In 2006, I think Texans had 20% of it's organization trying to win games, & less than 10% working towards a championship. Today, I think we're closer to 90% working towards winning & 40%-50% working towards a Super Bowl.

I know the W/L is important, & right now it doesn't show that the Texans have turned anything around. But you know, if you've ever been in a leadership position, mindsets have to be changed first.

There are several things that has led me to believe the Texans' mindset has changed for the better. Biggest among those is letting Dunta Robinson go. Letting Reeves go, Letting Okam go (finally). There are things those players said & did, that had me questioning their commitment to winning. Another thing, I don't know what the media exposure of the Texans was like during the Capers years, I was a very casual fan back then. But now, just about every player has a radio show, or is quoted in the papers almost daily (during the season). & to a T, they all repeat the same message. They don't take stabs at each other, & they'll defend each other. You never hear (at least I haven't) the offense blame the defense, or the defense blame the offense. You don't hear the secondary blaming the DL, or the LBs blaming the secondary, or the old guys blaming the rookies, or the rookies blaming the old guys. They're very united, & like I said to a T after every game, to explain the loss each player I heard would talk about what they could have done to win the game.

Arian rushes for 158, he'll tell you about a touchdown he missed, or a pass he should have caught, or a block he should have made.

In no way am I excusing Kubiak's performance here. Nor am I saying I am happy, or satisfied with what Kubiak has done. Like many others, I believe Kubiak has done as much as he can do for this team. I think we are in a better position now, than we were at the end of the 2005 season.

I think we have a team that believes they can win. For some reason, they (not I) believe they can win with Kubiak. I don't know how much longer that will be the case. If I were making the decisions, I wouldn't have chanced it, again. 2009 should have been the year, 2010 was dismal. If we have another dismal year, & with the CBA & all that, chances are we will, this team may fall apart, & we truly will be starting over.

You're seriously assigning percentages like that? I guess I can't argue with that. I mean, I was thinking it was more like 18.37% of Texans trying to win games, and 3.92% trying to win the Super Bowl, but now it's about 58% this and 81% that. Come on, man. Stop trying to complicate this.

It's not even about US. This is about the Titans. We love to villify them, I'm right there in the thick of it, but they could very easily kick our butts next year and win enough games to make the playoffs. The dysfunction they had this year, IMO, is what brought them down. With a mentally stable QB, there's no telling what they can do. The AFC South is wide open, and the Texans surely don't want to win it. I'm about 97.634% sure of that. The division is wide open, and we didn't have the dysfunction that the Titans had this year. That says a lot, IMO, and it's not a lot of "good" about us.

As much as I dislike the Titans, I'm on record as saying they can turn it around in one year and be back where they had been a few seasons ago. However it was, or whoever it was, that decided Fisher was done, is going to be a blessing in disguise for that team.

Once again, this is about the Titans and not us.

HOU-TEX
01-28-2011, 09:10 AM
I didn't see it mentioned in the thread, but there was a snippet running across the bottom of my TV late last night. It said Fisher was trying to get his kid a job with the titans as a quality control guy. Apparently buddy has a strict policy about having family working together.

Like I said, it was one runner across my screen around 12-12:30. I had been drinking, but promise it was real.

As far as the thread's concerned

The Dumpster :vincepalm:

Texan_Bill
01-28-2011, 09:15 AM
Credit to JDizzle for this pic....


http://i56.tinypic.com/2yy8evp.jpg

Now Bud.... That ain't right! You classless POS sumbitch!

Texan_Bill
01-28-2011, 09:18 AM
I didn't see it mentioned in the thread, but there was a snippet running across the bottom of my TV late last night. It said Fisher was trying to get his kid a job with the titans as a quality control guy. Apparently buddy has a strict policy about having family working together.

Like I said, it was one runner across my screen around 12-12:30. I had been drinking, but promise it was real.

As far as the thread's concerned

The Dumpster :vincepalm:

:lol:

FirstTexansFan
01-28-2011, 10:10 AM
I'm about 97.634% sure of that.

Welcome back to #1 :)

Dread-Head
01-28-2011, 10:19 AM
Only a jackass like Bud would fire the ONE coach who took his monkey ass to his ONLY Superbowl.

Dread-Head
01-28-2011, 10:21 AM
As soon as I thought who would they hire...guess who popped up on NFLN.

Dom Capers....you heard it here first.

Do you think Bud is that YES Stupid ..dang did it again.

YES! YES! Hire Capers! HIRE CAPERS!:hurrah:

GP
01-28-2011, 10:28 AM
Only a jackass like Bud would fire the ONE coach who took his monkey ass to his ONLY Superbowl.

But 16 years is a long time, man.

Six. Teen. Years.

That's a crazy amount of time to have been with one NFL team. I think, realistically, it should have been done a year or two earlier.

GP
01-28-2011, 10:29 AM
Welcome back to #1 :)

LOL.

Dude, you are a TRIP.

The Mel Kiper of message boards. We're always seeing who is climbing up the ladder and falling down a spot or two in your mock rankings. I love it. You've got a great schtick going on here. Kudos.

Double Barrel
01-28-2011, 10:41 AM
Yep, and people (FT, not directed at you even though I quoted you - just continuing the thought) want to call McNair cheap. How many players did Bud refuse to pay?? His cheapskate ways kept the Oilers from ever building a top notch team while in Houston. Note the qualifier while in Houston, after leaving, his desire to stick it to Houston loosened up the purse strings a bit.

Everyone should know my feelings about Slug Adams around here. So far be it from me to defend the guy. However, all that aside, the Oilers were one of the highest payrolled teams during the run-and-shoot days. Bud didn't choke a 35-3 lead away, so I can't blame him for that one. That team went to the playoffs 7 years in a row, and he gave his FO everything they needed financially to put a solid team together.

I hate that he took the Oilers away. But truth be told, he wasn't playing the game of Houston's rich boy's club. His regret is that he didn't let Uncle Drayton move the Astros first, because the Oilers would still be here if he had a little patience and played the political game.

What's going to be awkward is when the Titans make the playoffs with their new coach before the Texans do.

Talk about weirdness.

Other teams have turned it around with a new coach. Titans could do it, too.

It's so traumatic! How will they ever get through it?? Oh, like most teams, one day at a time.

As far as Cowher, one stat really blows me away. Through the Super Bowl, Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points.

Other interesting factoids: Cowher is only the second coach in NFL history to lead his team to the playoffs in each of his first six seasons as head coach, joining Pro Football Hall of Fame member Paul Brown. He is one of only six coaches in NFL history to claim at least seven division titles. At the conclusion of the 2005 season, the Pittsburgh Steelers had the best record of any team in the National Football League since Cowher was hired as head coach.

People that downplay his achievements because of his staff or players are just ignorant. Go look at the staffs of Lombardi, Walsh, Landry, Parcells. Great head coaches find great assistance coaches, who often go on to be great head coaches themselves, and this staff finds great players. This is one of the things that make them great coaches!! That says a lot about the quality decisions that HoF head coaches make. THEY DO NOT HIRE THEIR FREAKIN' BUDDIES OVER BETTER QUALIFIED COACHES!!!

Texecutioner
01-28-2011, 11:44 AM
Everyone should know my feelings about Slug Adams around here. So far be it from me to defend the guy. However, all that aside, the Oilers were one of the highest payrolled teams during the run-and-shoot days. Bud didn't choke a 35-3 lead away, so I can't blame him for that one. That team went to the playoffs 7 years in a row, and he gave his FO everything they needed financially to put a solid team together.

I hate that he took the Oilers away. But truth be told, he wasn't playing the game of Houston's rich boy's club. His regret is that he didn't let Uncle Drayton move the Astros first, because the Oilers would still be here if he had a little patience and played the political game.



It's so traumatic! How will they ever get through it?? Oh, like most teams, one day at a time.

As far as Cowher, one stat really blows me away. Through the Super Bowl, Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points.

Other interesting factoids: Cowher is only the second coach in NFL history to lead his team to the playoffs in each of his first six seasons as head coach, joining Pro Football Hall of Fame member Paul Brown. He is one of only six coaches in NFL history to claim at least seven division titles. At the conclusion of the 2005 season, the Pittsburgh Steelers had the best record of any team in the National Football League since Cowher was hired as head coach.

People that downplay his achievements because of his staff or players are just ignorant. Go look at the staffs of Lombardi, Walsh, Landry, Parcells. Great head coaches find great assistance coaches, who often go on to be great head coaches themselves, and this staff finds great players. This is one of the things that make them great coaches!! That says a lot about the quality decisions that HoF head coaches make. THEY DO NOT HIRE THEIR FREAKIN' BUDDIES OVER BETTER QUALIFIED COACHES!!!

Yeah, we could play this game all day DB. For the people that want to discredit Cowher for some silly reason by using DIck Lebeau as his only reason for success does anyone care to want to know the assistants that Bill Walsh had?? Lol! He had like Marriuchi, Gruden, and even Holmgren if I'm not mistaken and a few others that have gone on to become big names. What about Bill Parcells? The guy had Bill freaking Billicheck whom I think at this point is the best HC of all time. Parcells also had Sean Payton on his staff and Todd Haley as well.

It's like you said, smart HC's and GM's go out and get qualified guys who can make sure the job gets done. They don't sit around and stroke their buddies up and keep them around for friendship sake like Kubes and Mack Brown while the team suffers.

Texecutioner
01-28-2011, 11:54 AM
However, all that aside, the Oilers were one of the highest payrolled teams during the run-and-shoot days. Bud didn't choke a 35-3 lead away, so I can't blame him for that one. That team went to the playoffs 7 years in a row, and he gave his FO everything they needed financially to put a solid team together.


I hate that he took the Oilers away. But truth be told, he wasn't playing the game of Houston's rich boy's club. His regret is that he didn't let Uncle Drayton move the Astros first, because the Oilers would still be here if he had a little patience and played the political game.


And I thought about mentioning this earlier, because it seems like some of the people that want to act like Bud Adams was this horrible owner who wouldn't sign any players througout his entire tenure in Houston either seem to be not that informed themselves or are just playing the "denial" game because it's convenient.

Bud stacked that Oilers team in the late 80's to early 90's. He put together plenty of SB talent teams. His biggest mistake back then was thinking that Jack Pardee of all people could lead them there. The Oilers were stacked all over the place even with quality depth as well. We had like 4 play making WR's at one point in Duncan, Givens, Jeffries, and Slaughter. The Oline was stacked with Munchack, Mathews, and Doug Dawson. The D line had some killers in Childress and Fuller. Don't even get me started on the secondary. We had a HOF freaking QB on top of that. Hell, Bud even went out and got the nastiest and meanest DC in the league in Buddy Ryan.

The Oilers had the talent and personal to win the SB plenty of years. Bud gave them the resources as far as the soldiers. Some of those Oilers teams were stacked. It wasn't his fault that Elway made one of his miraculous come backs against us or that the Bills came back after 32 points.

TD
01-28-2011, 12:04 PM
Replaced Bum Phillips with Ed Biles, Hugh Campbell, Jerry Glanville. McNair still has a way to go to reach Adam's ineptitude.

Double Barrel
01-28-2011, 12:20 PM
Replaced Bum Phillips with Ed Biles, Hugh Campbell, Jerry Glanville. McNair still has a way to go to reach Adam's ineptitude.

He's working on catching up with a list that includes Dom Capers and Gary Kubiak. ;)

At least Bud has Bum and some really good teams on his owner resume. McNair has...a brazillion consecutive sellouts as his highlight.

I hate hate hate that I have to admit anything good about Adams. But I can't revise history because of my dislike of the man and his decision. The Oilers left a legacy with this city that has yet to be fulfilled. We have many passionate football fans because of Oilers roots, and those roots are what keeps McNair's coffers filled to the brim.

TEXANRED
01-28-2011, 12:23 PM
I don't understand why people would say Fisher is overrated and Cowher is some kind of football god in the same breath. The difference between Fisher and Cowher is Ben Roethlisberger and Dick LeBeau. Think about it.

Rothlisraper? Really? You're right, if only you had a guy who could consistently throw for a 150 yards a game and let the run game and defense win it for him......oh wait, you do have that.

You had your Dick LeBeau too. Right now he is in Detroit much like Dick went to the Bengals.

JB
01-28-2011, 12:43 PM
He's working on catching up with a list that includes Dom Capers and Gary Kubiak. ;)

At least Bud has Bum and some really good teams on his owner resume. McNair has...a brazillion consecutive sellouts as his highlight.

I hate hate hate that I have to admit anything good about Adams. But I can't revise history because of my dislike of the man and his decision. The Oilers left a legacy with this city that has yet to be fulfilled. We have many passionate football fans because of Oilers roots, and those roots are what keeps McNair's coffers filled to the brim.

While I can agree with you to a point about the good teams the Oilers had, many here are either to young or just don't recall the pain and frustration that Oiler fans had over the years. Prior to Bum being hired in 1975 , the Oilers were a collective 49-100 over the previous 11 years. That was with a 14 game schedule. Bud made no effort to improve the team at all prior to Bum & Earl.

NitroGSXR
01-28-2011, 12:44 PM
Rothlisraper? Really? You're right, if only you had a guy who could consistently throw for a 150 yards a game and let the run game and defense win it for him......oh wait, you do have that.

You had your Dick LeBeau too. Right now he is in Detroit much like Dick went to the Bengals.

Yeah he didn't throw for a whole lot but that final drive cemented his ascent into glory. I believe that Rothelisberger is the greatest 4th quarter QB ever. He lives for the final two minutes.

JB
01-28-2011, 12:48 PM
Yeah he didn't throw for a whole lot but that final drive cemented his ascent into glory. I believe that Rothelisberger is the greatest 4th quarter QB ever. He lives for the final two minutes.

I respectfully disagree.

signed

Joe Montana

co-signed

Roger Staubach

stingray
01-28-2011, 12:50 PM
I respectfully disagree.

signed

Joe Montana

co-signed

Roger Staubach

And John Elway

NitroGSXR
01-28-2011, 12:53 PM
I respectfully disagree.

signed

Joe Montana

co-signed

Roger Staubach
Joe Montana is the most overrated QB I've ever seen play (blasphemy!!). Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers. John Elway definitely is in Roethlisberger's class.

stingray
01-28-2011, 12:55 PM
Delete

JB
01-28-2011, 12:55 PM
Joe Montana is the most overrated QB I've ever seen play (blasphemy!!). Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers. John Elway definitely is in Roethlisberger's class.

Forgot about Elway (blasphemy). We'll just have to disagree about the other two.

TD
01-28-2011, 01:08 PM
I hate hate hate that I have to admit anything good about Adams. But I can't revise history because of my dislike of the man and his decision. The Oilers left a legacy with this city that has yet to be fulfilled. We have many passionate football fans because of Oilers roots, and those roots are what keeps McNair's coffers filled to the brim.

Yeah, I get a taste of our legacy every time "World's Greatest Sports Chokes" come on. ;)

At least this isn't ours.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view2/1836103/one-yard-short-o.gif

I picture ole Bud on his deathbed...."ONE YARD....ON STINKIN YARD" BWAAAAH!!

Texecutioner
01-28-2011, 01:53 PM
While I can agree with you to a point about the good teams the Oilers had, many here are either to young or just don't recall the pain and frustration that Oiler fans had over the years. Prior to Bum being hired in 1975 , the Oilers were a collective 49-100 over the previous 11 years. That was with a 14 game schedule. Bud made no effort to improve the team at all prior to Bum & Earl.

And see this is the problem for when guys like you and a few others make all of these excuses for Mcnair. You're literally comparing an era before 1975 that stretches all the way back in to the 60's. The 60's! You're comparing that to what has taken place in a brand new era that started in like 2001. Take that back to 1965 and that's 35 years ago when the NFL was first getting started and free agency and the trading block didn't even really exist. It's not a valid comparison by any stretch and has no play when it comes to discussing Mcnair's ineptitude.

Mcnair has had every resource imaginable at his disposal to hire great coaches and GM's and every fantastic electronic piece of equipment to research and grade players and resumes himself. Even in year 9 the old man seems like he hasn't learned a thing. He seems even more naive and and I'm just not foolish enough to believe that about a Billionaire. That to me says that he's just fine and dandy as long as his stadium is full and whether he wins or loses beyond that is no biggie. He acted like 9-7 was a SB celebration for god sakes and like Gary had actually done a great job when the Gary literally cost this team the playoffs with his multiple brain farts in several games at the end . He said we were on the "right track" after following that up with a 6-10 season. His ineptitude in this era is in incredible and mind blowing actually.

You can sit here and call Bud Adams this all time loser all you want, but don't sit here with a straight face and act like we're not in the same boat right now with Mcnair after what he's displayed with a straight face. That's just denial. I'll look at what Bud Adams has done in the last 9 years and the Titans franchise has creamed the Texans in head to head match ups and in regular season success as a whole. And the Titans may not have been an expansion team, but they were down and out and a bottom feeder "TWICE" since the Texans came into the frey and bounced right back to becoming a playoff team under three different QB's and practically two different teams after retooling their team. The Titans franchise have towered over the Texans as their as their successes in the last 9 years.

Texecutioner
01-28-2011, 01:55 PM
Yeah, I get a taste of our legacy every time "World's Greatest Sports Chokes" come on. ;)

At least this isn't ours.

http://www.gifsoup.com/view2/1836103/one-yard-short-o.gif

I picture ole Bud on his deathbed...."ONE YARD....ON STINKIN YARD" BWAAAAH!!

Going to a SB is never "a choke". That's being the best team in your conference and simply being in any SB game is always historic. There is no way to downplay that no matter how badly anyone wants to despise Bud Adams.

TD
01-28-2011, 01:59 PM
Going to a SB is never "a choke". That's being the best team in your conference and simply being in any SB game is always historic. There is no way to downplay that no matter how badly anyone wants to despise Bud Adams.

"The choke" I was referring to was the Buffalo game which is replayed in some form or another WAAAAAY too often. That's our legacy.

The SB play is proof "the curse" followed Bud to Possum Holler. That's the best moment they'll ever have.

HoustonFrog
01-28-2011, 02:03 PM
Yeah, we could play this game all day DB. For the people that want to discredit Cowher for some silly reason by using DIck Lebeau as his only reason for success does anyone care to want to know the assistants that Bill Walsh had?? Lol! He had like Marriuchi, Gruden, and even Holmgren if I'm not mistaken and a few others that have gone on to become big names. What about Bill Parcells? The guy had Bill freaking Billicheck whom I think at this point is the best HC of all time. Parcells also had Sean Payton on his staff and Todd Haley as well.

It's like you said, smart HC's and GM's go out and get qualified guys who can make sure the job gets done. They don't sit around and stroke their buddies up and keep them around for friendship sake like Kubes and Mack Brown while the team suffers.

Landry had Ditka and Reeves, he must be overrated too. Unreal

Joe Montana is the most overrated QB I've ever seen play (blasphemy!!). Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers. John Elway definitely is in Roethlisberger's class.

Really?....really? You are right..last second drives, winning multiple SBs, leading teams to record performances...very overrated. You should just have great stats on losing teams. Staubach wasn't surrounded by HOFers..at least not according the voters. Those old Steelers and Cowboys teams were stacked but the old Cowboy teams haven't gotten alot of love in the HOF. I really think alot of people underestimate what it takes to throw the ball accurately while handling pressure and leading teams....and then doing it year after year after year.

infantrycak
01-28-2011, 02:04 PM
Joe Montana is the most overrated QB I've ever seen play (blasphemy!!). Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers. John Elway definitely is in Roethlisberger's class.

Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers? C'mon. Terry Bradshaw never sniffs the hall of fame but for great plays by Lynn Swan who only made the hall of fame based on his playoff catches. Rodger was clutch. He made things happen. He was Rodger the dodger and Comeback Kid and Hail Mary for a reason. Any attempt to downplay his 4th quarter clutch ability is misplaced. Of any QB ever, EVER, in the NFL if I had to pick one to lead a comeback in the 4th it would be Rodger.

JB
01-28-2011, 02:05 PM
And see this is the problem for when guys like you and a few others make all of these excuses for Mcnair. You're literally comparing an era before 1975 that stretches all the way back in to the 60's. The 60's! You're comparing that to what has taken place in a brand new era that started in like 2001. Take that back to 1965 and that's 35 years ago when the NFL was first getting started and free agency and the trading block didn't even really exist. It's not a valid comparison by any stretch and has no play when it comes to discussing Mcnair's ineptitude.

Mcnair has had every resource imaginable at his disposal to hire great coaches and GM's and every fantastic electronic piece of equipment to research and grade players and resumes himself. Even in year 9 the old man seems like he hasn't learned a thing. He seems even more naive and and I'm just not foolish enough to believe that about a Billionaire. That to me says that he's just fine and dandy as long as his stadium is full and whether he wins or loses beyond that is no biggie. He acted like 9-7 was a SB celebration for god sakes and like Gary had actually done a great job when the Gary literally cost this team the playoffs with his multiple brain farts in several games at the end . He said we were on the "right track" after following that up with a 6-10 season. His ineptitude in this era is in incredible and mind blowing actually.

You can sit here and call Bud Adams this all time loser all you want, but don't sit here with a straight face and act like we're not in the same boat right now with Mcnair after what he's displayed with a straight face. That's just denial. I'll look at what Bud Adams has done in the last 9 years and the Titans franchise has creamed the Texans in head to head match ups and in regular season success as a whole. And the Titans may not have been an expansion team, but they were down and out and a bottom feeder "TWICE" since the Texans came into the frey and bounced right back to becoming a playoff team under three different QB's and practically two different teams after retooling their team. The Titans franchise have towered over the Texans as their as their successes in the last 9 years.


I'm not trying to make any excuses for McNair. but you are acting like Adams is some great owner that has done great things. Yes, his team did have some very good years, but I was trying to point out that it took a very long time to get there.

Texecutioner
01-28-2011, 02:06 PM
Joe Montana is the most overrated QB I've ever seen play (blasphemy!!). Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers. John Elway definitely is in Roethlisberger's class.

Joe Montana is anying "but" overrated. He was amazing in college and he was amazing after the 49ers. The man won wherever he went. I never heard anyone attempt to say that about Joe.

And Rothlisburger is a guy I've been a huge fan of for years, but he's by far "not" the best comeback QB of all time. He's not even better than Tom Brady and Manning would have nice argument for that as well as far as a comparison to Big Ben.

And Elway?? Are you kidding me? Elway was just the man. There is no QB I've ever hated more than Elway when he played, but Rothlisburger is no Elway. Not even close. Elway carried his teams. Elway never played with any defenses anywhere close to what Rothlisburger has had. What many people don't realize is that these Steeler defenses of this decade are going to go down as one of the top three defenses throughout a decade of all time in NFL history. It's very arguable that this Steelers defense throughout this decade is even better than what the Steel Curtain was of the 70's. Actually it is when you consider all of the rule changes that benefit the offenses now. Sure the Steel Curtain had guys like Jack The Ham, Mean Joe Greene, Blount, and Lambert but this Steelers defense of this decade has had guys like Polomolu, Joey Porter, James Harrison, James Farrior, Tyrone Woodley, and Casey Hampton.

Going back to Elway though, that guy went to 3 SB's early on his career with a bunch of nobodies. Go to any sports bar and ask some random dude who played on those early Broncos teams that Elway led to 3 SB's and you'll be lucky to find a guy who can even name two players. All I can think of was Sammy Winder and Vance Johnson and that's it off of the top of my head. Those Broncos teams weren't top teams throughout the season really back then, but once the post season came around John Elway was just a dangerous man.

NitroGSXR
01-28-2011, 02:14 PM
Staubach was surrounded by hall of famers? C'mon. Terry Bradshaw never sniffs the hall of fame but for great plays by Lynn Swan who only made the hall of fame based on his playoff catches. Rodger was clutch. He made things happen. He was Rodger the dodger and Comeback Kid and Hail Mary for a reason. Any attempt to downplay his 4th quarter clutch ability is misplaced. Of any QB ever, EVER, in the NFL if I had to pick one to lead a comeback in the 4th it would be Rodger.

You're absolutely right. It's just my Cowboy hate seeping... my bad.

Texecutioner
01-28-2011, 02:20 PM
I'm not trying to make any excuses for McNair. but you are acting like Adams is some great owner that has done great things. Yes, his team did have some very good years, but I was trying to point out that it took a very long time to get there.

No, I don't want you to think that I'm trying to suggest that Bud has been some great owner in the grand scheme of things. Please don't misplace my arguments here JB. The problem is that the majority of people on this site have such a hatred and loathing of Bud since he took this team away from this city, that they can't discuss anything about the man's teams with any objectivity. Bud Adams has put together plenty of teams with loads of talent if you want to look back on the last 25 years. I don't think discussing stuff from the 60's and 70's is really of any significance if we're making comparisons to the "Mcnair era" where the Texans are concerned. Bud brought the meat personal wise plenty of times and just can't be denied when you look at the staff he had in the 90's and the players he loaded this team with. Even now in this decade the Titans have had some very good teams. They have some poor seasons as well and that goes into the equation, but they've shown the ability to bounce right back into the fold of contenders as well.

I don't like Bud Adams dude. I hate the man just like many others, but he's put out the resources to build winners plenty of times in many seasons. For being such a tyrant he did hold on to a great coach for like 16 years. He managed to keep Fisher around and had great QB's that kept his teams relevevant for many years like Moon and Mcnair in the last 25 years. VY looked like the next big thing to many people as well and had some early success. He'll probably flame out as bust at this point though.

My whole point has been that we can sit here and throw darts at the Bud Adams photo all day long and blast him as an owner, but that doesn't change the fact that we've got one that looks just as bad but in different ways. We as fans need to hold Mcnair accountable. Mcnair hasn't gotten a dime from me in over a year and he won't next season either. I won't play his game and fill up his bank account if he's not in it to win it. I just don't see how people can hate Bud Adams so much and think he's so destined to lose an owner, but then have all of this confidence and admiration for Bob Mcnair just because he's "classy and sweet." Sure that's a plus, but if winning and a commitment to that goal is your main objective as a fan which it is to most, then I don't see how Mcnair shouldn't get just as many negative criticisms but for different reasons.

Double Barrel
01-28-2011, 02:31 PM
"The choke" I was referring to was the Buffalo game which is replayed in some form or another WAAAAAY too often. That's our legacy.

The SB play is proof "the curse" followed Bud to Possum Holler. That's the best moment they'll ever have.

God, I hate that game. And it's this time of year that NFLN will play it at least 10 different times. I can almost guarantee that I will turn on the tv at some point in the next week and see it on. :brickwall:

And yeah, that 'curse' followed him to Nashville, but unfortunately, it left a nasty infection at it's old address on Kirby that still hasn't been cured.

Lucky
01-28-2011, 06:34 PM
Replaced Bum Phillips with Ed Biles, Hugh Campbell, Jerry Glanville. McNair still has a way to go to reach Adam's ineptitude.
Jerry Glanville took the Oilers to the playoffs in 3 of his 4 full seasons as head coach. Glanville was involved in every aspect of the team, and called both the offensive and defensive plays. Love him or hate him, there's no question that the man in black was head & shoulders above Gary Kubiak as a head coach.

False Start
01-28-2011, 08:12 PM
Fisher gave Adams a Young-or-me ultimatum and Adams, after days of mulling the decision, said publically that the team would trade or release Young. It is not know if Fisher's departure will pave the way for Young to stay with the team.


If Bud keeps Vince, because he choses him over Fisher thats pretty sad IMO. I hope the Titans become the new Lions, and if KY stays that might just happen. :hurrah:

Fisher giving the ultimatum is messed up, but to let him go over a below average QB at best is just not cool, IMO.

thunderkyss
01-28-2011, 09:58 PM
If Bud keeps Vince, because he choses him over Fisher thats pretty sad IMO. I hope the Titans become the new Lions, and if KY stays that might just happen. :hurrah:

Fisher giving the ultimatum is messed up, but to let him go over a below average QB at best is just not cool, IMO.

The Titans said the would trade or release Young two weeks ago. After letting Fisher go, they've said the haven't changed their mind about Vince, he's still gone.

I think this had something to do with trying to work out a deal for Fishers contract, he was going into the last year of his contract. It could have been anything, Fisher wanting more money than they offered, or a longer term, or personnel control, who knows. But the latest rumor is that he wanted to bring his son into the organization, & Bud said no.

It's all in this thread.

srrono
01-28-2011, 10:31 PM
good luck to fisher i always like him as a class act

Txn_in_Oki
01-28-2011, 11:42 PM
Jerry Glanville took the Oilers to the playoffs in 3 of his 4 full seasons as head coach. Glanville was involved in every aspect of the team, and called both the offensive and defensive plays. Love him or hate him, there's no question that the man in black was head & shoulders above Gary Kubiak as a head coach.

As a kid I remember the Oilers being terrible until Glanville came along. Sure he pulled some ridiculous stunts here and there but there were good things too. Buying tickets to avoid blackouts is something I remember happening quite a few times.

Of coure you have the defense and the House of Pain Astrodome that he brought about. The hitlists in the locker room, the attitude, as I remember teams weren't very fond of coming to the Dome to play.

I'm not trying to defend Bud by any means, I just don't like people acting like Glanville sucked so bad and leaving out the good spots.

Runner
01-29-2011, 02:17 AM
Texans (the population of the state, not the team) pride themselves on their knowledge of and love of the game of football. Some of the posts in this thread lead one to believe that the pride in the former is seriously misplaced.

BetaV1
01-29-2011, 08:37 AM
Rotoworld is now reporting that Fisher and the Titans were at odds over the pace of Fisher's (lack of) urgency when it came to replacing coaches on his staff. Word is that the desired hiring of Jeff's son as a "quality control coach" may have played a role in the split.


Another interesting blip ia Rotoworld:
Titans coaches were informed at a staff meeting Friday that the front office intends to name a head coach "within a week."

All assistants recently signed to new deals were informed that their contracts will be honored, lending credence to the idea that the head coach will come from in-house. OL coach Mike Munchak is considered the heavy favorite for the job. OC Mike Heimerdinger presumably would've gotten a long look if he wasn't coming off chemotherapy. Jeff Fisher will not coach in 2011

Houston Mid-South?

JB
01-29-2011, 09:03 AM
Rotoworld is now reporting that Fisher and the Titans were at odds over the pace of Fisher's (lack of) urgency when it came to replacing coaches on his staff. Word is that the desired hiring of Jeff's son as a "quality control coach" may have played a role in the split.


Another interesting blip ia Rotoworld:


Houston Mid-South?



Why would it be Houston Mid-South?

CloakNNNdagger
01-29-2011, 09:17 AM
Rotoworld is now reporting that Fisher and the Titans were at odds over the pace of Fisher's (lack of) urgency when it came to replacing coaches on his staff. Word is that the desired hiring of Jeff's son as a "quality control coach" may have played a role in the split.Another interesting blip ia Rotoworld:


Houston Mid-South?

Really didn't know what a "quality control coach" is. Sounds like a potentially very important gopher. N.F.L. Quality-Control Coaches Learn It All (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/sports/football/27quality.html)

infantrycak
01-29-2011, 09:25 AM
OL/position coach straight to head coach. Hmmm, and folks criticize the Texans for having a rookie HC.

TD
01-29-2011, 09:35 AM
Jerry Glanville took the Oilers to the playoffs in 3 of his 4 full seasons as head coach. Glanville was involved in every aspect of the team, and called both the offensive and defensive plays. Love him or hate him, there's no question that the man in black was head & shoulders above Gary Kubiak as a head coach.

Two of those were nine win seasons. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw.

Txn_in_Oki
01-29-2011, 09:40 AM
Two of those were nine win seasons. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw.

It's still the play-offs though isn't it?

Does it really matter what the record is if they make the play-offs?

infantrycak
01-29-2011, 09:48 AM
It's still the play-offs though isn't it?

Does it really matter what the record is if they make the play-offs?

Yeah it does when judging relative merit. Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are in at 9-7. The fact that they did or did not makes no difference to how good a team they were. Were the Seahawks a good team because they made it to the playoffs at 7-9?

False Start
01-29-2011, 10:14 AM
The Titans said the would trade or release Young two weeks ago. After letting Fisher go, they've said the haven't changed their mind about Vince, he's still gone.

I think this had something to do with trying to work out a deal for Fishers contract, he was going into the last year of his contract. It could have been anything, Fisher wanting more money than they offered, or a longer term, or personnel control, who knows. But the latest rumor is that he wanted to bring his son into the organization, & Bud said no.

It's all in this thread.


I should have read whole thread..... :kubepalm:

TD
01-29-2011, 10:59 AM
Yeah it does when judging relative merit. Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are in at 9-7. The fact that they did or did not makes no difference to how good a team they were. Were the Seahawks a good team because they made it to the playoffs at 7-9?

Yep. Sometimes 7-8 wins get you in and 10-11 wins doesn't. It doesn't reflect on the coach either way.

Interesting read (that I'm sure is on this board somewhere) 10 Best NFL Teams To Miss the Playoffs Since 2002 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/574299-the-new-york-giants-and-the-10-best-nfl-teams-to-miss-out-on-the-playoffs)

2009 Houston Texans - Playing in the tough AFC South, the Houston Texans were so close to breaking through to the playoffs, but were just not close enough. They were dependent on newfound stud quarterback Matt Schaub.

Schaub threw for 4,770 yards and 29 touchdowns in 2009, leading the team to nine wins, just one win shy of a Wild Card berth.

Was that team any worse than the two nine win Glanville teams that made the playoffs? I doubt it.

Double Barrel
01-29-2011, 11:05 AM
Jerry Glanville took the Oilers to the playoffs in 3 of his 4 full seasons as head coach. Glanville was involved in every aspect of the team, and called both the offensive and defensive plays. Love him or hate him, there's no question that the man in black was head & shoulders above Gary Kubiak as a head coach.

It's amazing how the hate can cloud objectivity.

I'm not saying Glanville was a great coach or anything, but he's surely better than anything we've seen from Kubiak in 6 seasons. That's a sad indictment of Kubiak, if anything.

Yeah it does when judging relative merit. Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are in at 9-7. The fact that they did or did not makes no difference to how good a team they were. Were the Seahawks a good team because they made it to the playoffs at 7-9?

Relative merit is Glanville going to the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons, regardless of record, and Kubiak making zero playoff games in 6 years.

I honestly don't know how Glanville can be considered a bad hire by Adams, all relative merits considered.

Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are 3-13. All that matters in the end is results. There is no stat for "what ifs".

Were the Seahawks a good team going to the playoffs at 7-9? Beating the world champions in the playoffs answers that question. They did what they had to do to win their division, regardless of how weak it was in the end. Every chance the Texans have had to capitalize, they fail without exception. The Texans never win games that they need to win. The Seahawks did....with a first year head coach, as well.

TD
01-29-2011, 11:34 AM
There's no simple answer. Was Glanville a good coach or the beneficiary of personnel? Look what Pardee did with largely the same cast.

Anway...definitely not defending Kubiak. I knew he wasn't a "game day" coach the first time I saw him turn his back on a field goal.

cuppacoffee
01-29-2011, 12:50 PM
It's amazing how the hate can cloud objectivity.

I'm not saying Glanville was a great coach or anything, but he's surely better than anything we've seen from Kubiak in 6 seasons. That's a sad indictment of Kubiak, if anything.



Relative merit is Glanville going to the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons, regardless of record, and Kubiak making zero playoff games in 6 years.

I honestly don't know how Glanville can be considered a bad hire by Adams, all relative merits considered.

Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are 3-13. All that matters in the end is results. There is no stat for "what ifs".

Were the Seahawks a good team going to the playoffs at 7-9? Beating the world champions in the playoffs answers that question. They did what they had to do to win their division, regardless of how weak it was in the end. Every chance the Texans have had to capitalize, they fail without exception. The Texans never win games that they need to win. The Seahawks did....with a first year head coach, as well.



Glanvilles accomplishments just pale in comparison to Hugh "Bones" Taylor.

On another note...If Munchak does not make the cut in Nashville is there much chance we could land him. I would rather have what he could add here to what Fisher could.

:coffee:

steelbtexan
01-29-2011, 01:36 PM
It's amazing how the hate can cloud objectivity.

I'm not saying Glanville was a great coach or anything, but he's surely better than anything we've seen from Kubiak in 6 seasons. That's a sad indictment of Kubiak, if anything.

Yep



Relative merit is Glanville going to the playoffs 3 out of 4 seasons, regardless of record, and Kubiak making zero playoff games in 6 years.

I honestly don't know how Glanville can be considered a bad hire by Adams, all relative merits considered.

When judged by Kubiak standards Glanville (Who I couldn't stand) looks like a great hire.

Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are 3-13. All that matters in the end is results. There is no stat for "what ifs".

But the what if game is all the sunshine club has left to play. They talk stats etc... It really comes down to one thing. Winning, Something the Kubiak club has failed to do.

Were the Seahawks a good team going to the playoffs at 7-9? Beating the world champions in the playoffs answers that question. They did what they had to do to win their division, regardless of how weak it was in the end. Every chance the Texans have had to capitalize, they fail without exception. The Texans never win games that they need to win. The Seahawks did....with a first year head coach, as well.

There you go again raining on the sunshine clubs parade. LOL

Double Barrel
01-29-2011, 01:41 PM
There's no simple answer. Was Glanville a good coach or the beneficiary of personnel? Look what Pardee did with largely the same cast.

Anway...definitely not defending Kubiak. I knew he wasn't a "game day" coach the first time I saw him turn his back on a field goal.

You're right about there being no simple answer. A lot can just depend on perception and how you choose to look at something.

It's a results driven business, so that's often where my perspective is coming from. But you and 'cak have made some excellent points, so I certainly wasn't trying to diminish your takes.

Back to Glanville, though, sure he was the beneficiary of personnel, but who chose that personnel? I see a head coach being responsible for far more than just gameday decisions. Obviously, they get more credit and more blame than they deserve, but it's a representative thing.

Lucky
01-29-2011, 03:40 PM
Was that team any worse than the two nine win Glanville teams that made the playoffs? I doubt it.
The Texans finished 9-7 with a cupcake schedule including the NFC Worst. During the 80's, only 5 teams per conference made the playoffs. And the Oilers were the 4th seed each of their 9-7 seasons. So they didn't exactly back in to the playoffs. Something even the Texans have failed to accomplish.
There's no simple answer. Was Glanville a good coach or the beneficiary of personnel? Look what Pardee did with largely the same cast.
Pardee didn't do much more than Glanville. And I'm certainly not suggesting that either were great coaches. Just that Bob McNair's choices to lead his football team have been nothing but awful. By hook, crook, or dumb luck, Adams has had better hires.

TD
01-29-2011, 04:17 PM
The Texans finished 9-7 with a cupcake schedule including the NFC Worst. During the 80's, only 5 teams per conference made the playoffs. And the Oilers were the 4th seed each of their 9-7 seasons. So they didn't exactly back in to the playoffs. Something even the Texans have failed to accomplish.

Well, there were two less teams per conference, one less division winner, and the same number of wild card teams (2) as well. So really it was easier to make the playoffs as a WC team back then; 11 teams competing for two spots, instead of the 12 now.

And they were 4th seeds on tie-breakers. Don't know that means much.

Pardee didn't do much more than Glanville. And I'm certainly not suggesting that either were great coaches. Just that Bob McNair's choices to lead his football team have been nothing but awful. By hook, crook, or dumb luck, Adams has had better hires.

In four full seasons, Pardee: Won 9,11,10, and 12 games; won the division; had a 66% winning pct; and always had a positive point differential.

In four full seasons, Glanville: Won 5, 9,10, and 9 games; never won the division; had a 52% winning pct; and was outscored 3 of the 4 years.

Personally I kinda liked 'ole Jerry, but I think he walked into a golden opportunity and under-performed with it.

TEXANRED
01-29-2011, 07:16 PM
Two of those were nine win seasons. Sometimes its just the luck of the draw.

And back then there were only 28 teams. Big difference. Same amount of playoff spots and more teams today. 9-7 used to be a lock for the playoffs.

TEXANRED
01-29-2011, 07:20 PM
There's no simple answer. Was Glanville a good coach or the beneficiary of personnel? Look what Pardee did with largely the same cast.

Anway...definitely not defending Kubiak. I knew he wasn't a "game day" coach the first time I saw him turn his back on a field goal.

Yes Glanville was a good coach. He took scrubs and elevated their game and made them stars.

The fact that Glanville gets fired for losing a playoff game was Bud Adams being Bud Adams.

Hervoyel
01-29-2011, 07:44 PM
Replaced Bum Phillips with Ed Biles, Hugh Campbell, Jerry Glanville. McNair still has a way to go to reach Adam's ineptitude.

McNair moves so slow I'll be collecting social security by the time he gets to his third head coach so you're right, he has a long way to go.

But seriously, Glanville was .508 here in Houston and that includes two losses he picked up at the end of 1985 when he was the interim head coach. As bad as he was he at least posted three straight winning seasons. The next coach McNair hires who posts a better than .500 record will be the first coach he hires to do that.

thunderkyss
01-29-2011, 07:59 PM
The Texans finished 9-7 with a cupcake schedule including the NFC Worst.


Cupcake?

We lost to the Colts twice. The Colts could have been 16-0 if they wanted to.

We lost twice to Jacksonville. Shouldn't have happened. They weren't very good... half-back pass & all. One of these two games (which were in our reach) we'd have gone to the play-offs.

We lost to the Cardinals. They had been to the Super Bowl the year before. They finished 2009 at 10-6.

We lost one game to Tennessee. That was a good game... except for the two missed field goals, at home.... we lost by 3.

Oh yeah, we lost to the Jets... who also finished 9-7... went all the way to the AFC Championship game.

Now, the Ravens had a cupcake schedule. .438 vs our .506
The Steelers, they had a cupcake schedule .434
They both finished 9-7.

The Broncos, the 49ers, they had cupcake schedules. .480 & .443 respectively. They both finished 8-8

The Bears, .414 (the leagues easiest schedule), were 7-9.

The Seahawks, .457 went 7-9

The Rams, .465 went 1-15

The Chiefs, .484 went 4-12.

By the way, we were 3-1 against the "NFC Worst"

TEXANRED
01-29-2011, 08:08 PM
Cupcake?

We lost to the Colts twice. The Colts could have been 16-0 if they wanted to.

We lost twice to Jacksonville. Shouldn't have happened. They weren't very good... half-back pass & all. One of these two games (which were in our reach) we'd have gone to the play-offs.

We lost to the Cardinals. They had been to the Super Bowl the year before. They finished 2009 at 10-6.

We lost one game to Tennessee. That was a good game... except for the two missed field goals, at home.... we lost by 3.

Oh yeah, we lost to the Jets... who also finished 9-7... went all the way to the AFC Championship game.

Now, the Ravens had a cupcake schedule. .438 vs our .506
The Steelers, they had a cupcake schedule .434
They both finished 9-7.

The Broncos, the 49ers, they had cupcake schedules. .480 & .443 respectively. They both finished 8-8

The Bears, .414 (the leagues easiest schedule), were 7-9.

The Seahawks, .457 went 7-9

The Rams, .465 went 1-15

The Chiefs, .484 went 4-12.

By the way, we were 3-1 against the "NFC Worst"

If last years schedule was any softer Pillsbury would have been the sponsor.

Texecutioner
01-29-2011, 10:08 PM
Cupcake?

We lost to the Colts twice. The Colts could have been 16-0 if they wanted to.

We lost twice to Jacksonville. Shouldn't have happened. They weren't very good... half-back pass & all. One of these two games (which were in our reach) we'd have gone to the play-offs.

We lost to the Cardinals. They had been to the Super Bowl the year before. They finished 2009 at 10-6.

We lost one game to Tennessee. That was a good game... except for the two missed field goals, at home.... we lost by 3.

Oh yeah, we lost to the Jets... who also finished 9-7... went all the way to the AFC Championship game.

Now, the Ravens had a cupcake schedule. .438 vs our .506
The Steelers, they had a cupcake schedule .434
They both finished 9-7.

The Broncos, the 49ers, they had cupcake schedules. .480 & .443 respectively. They both finished 8-8

The Bears, .414 (the leagues easiest schedule), were 7-9.

The Seahawks, .457 went 7-9

The Rams, .465 went 1-15

The Chiefs, .484 went 4-12.

By the way, we were 3-1 against the "NFC Worst"

This thread wouldn't be complete without a philosophical TK excuse and spin for Mcnair and Smithiak. Now we've finally come full circle. :bravo:

Texecutioner
01-29-2011, 10:21 PM
Yeah it does when judging relative merit. Things fall a little different last year and the Texans are in at 9-7.

Yeah, like Kubiak not trusting a guy like Chris Brown at the end of 3 different games where he single handily gave the game away to the other team. (That's if you're talking about last year as in the season before the previous.)

Now this season (If that's what you were talking about) was just a pure fail of all merits. The way we continually lost close games that were in the bag were inexcusable and was the same type of garbage we had seen two years prior. The Rosencopter incident and so many other epic facepalm moments. It's been a mile long pattern of that under Kubiak which is probably the most frustrating part of why he's still employed with this team. I've never in my life of watching football seen any coach lose this many games in such weird ways that seem impossible, but some how the odds of weird stuff always land with Gary. Even when I was rooting for the Texans to lose so Gary would get fired finally and the Texans were whipping on certain teams I'd tell people that the Texans were going to win, and I'd find out later that "the omen" hit once again and I'd just laugh. The frustration stage left me a long time ago under this regime and now it's just like a bad train wreck that continues to crash in different towns. It's sort of like a circus really.


The fact that they did or did not makes no difference to how good a team they were. Were the Seahawks a good team because they made it to the playoffs at 7-9?

No they weren't a good team. They just happened to be in a terrible division. The only real thing they have to be proud of is that win in the first round. I do think that Carroll has brought in some confidence within the organization though. He made a lot of moves in the off season right away and throughout the season to change the make up of the team. That's a positive sign for that franchise I'd say. A HC and GM that makes a lot of moves and looks for opportunities is one that has the ability to change things pretty quickly. It's not the typical we'll only "build through the draft" approach.

JB
01-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Aren't you ready to move on yet?

Texecutioner
01-29-2011, 10:49 PM
Aren't you ready to move on yet?

Move on from what? What has changed with this organization? Are you suggesting that I should have optimism just to have optimism? Sorry, but I don't tick like that. I base optimism off of sound reasoning and sound data that makes sense to me and there just hasn't been any of that from the Texans.

My entire philosophy here is that this franchise needs to cut their losses and move on to something fresh and new and to stop doing the same thing that has failed and expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity and also a strong symptom of denial. My perceptions with this team seem to really irritate you and that's not any objective of mine, but it is what it is JB. Brutal truth is just better than a fantasy to me.

TD
01-29-2011, 11:11 PM
And back then there were only 28 teams. Big difference. Same amount of playoff spots and more teams today. 9-7 used to be a lock for the playoffs.

Nope. One fewer playoff team back then and there was LESS competition for the wild card spots. 2 of 11 instead of 2 of 12.

JB
01-30-2011, 12:20 AM
Move on from what? What has changed with this organization? Are you suggesting that I should have optimism just to have optimism? Sorry, but I don't tick like that. I base optimism off of sound reasoning and sound data that makes sense to me and there just hasn't been any of that from the Texans.

My entire philosophy here is that this franchise needs to cut their losses and move on to something fresh and new and to stop doing the same thing that has failed and expecting different results. That's the definition of insanity and also a strong symptom of denial. My perceptions with this team seem to really irritate you and that's not any objective of mine, but it is what it is JB. Brutal truth is just better than a fantasy to me.

No Tex, I am not asking you to change your perceptions of this team, or of their past. But don't you get tired of rehashing the same over & over? You and I can not change what the team is doing going forward, but we can look at what they need to do in our opinions. Bitching about what they didn't do gets us nowhere. I agree the team needs to move forward. So do we. I am just as pissed as anyone about what has been. I choose not to dwell on that, 'cause it serves no purpose. Rather than turn every thread into a "they should have" thread, I would rather look forward to a "they need to". Knowing that my opinion means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I get where you are coming from, and agree with a great bit of it. But yesterday is gone Bud.

NitroGSXR
01-30-2011, 01:28 AM
No Tex, I am not asking you to change your perceptions of this team, or of their past. But don't you get tired of rehashing the same over & over? You and I can not change what the team is doing going forward, but we can look at what they need to do in our opinions. Bitching about what they didn't do gets us nowhere. I agree the team needs to move forward. So do we. I am just as pissed as anyone about what has been. I choose not to dwell on that, 'cause it serves no purpose. Rather than turn every thread into a "they should have" thread, I would rather look forward to a "they need to". Knowing that my opinion means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I get where you are coming from, and agree with a great bit of it. But yesterday is gone Bud.

Must spread rep!! Dadgummit! Stupid limits.

Exactly right... Yesterday is gone. T-minus about 6 months before our first game. It's gonna be a long offseason. Might as well see what they do...

thunderkyss
01-30-2011, 05:53 AM
This thread wouldn't be complete without a philosophical TK excuse and spin for Mcnair and Smithiak. Now we've finally come full circle. :bravo:

It's not spin. If our schedule was a cupcake schedule because of the NFC West, we did our part by beating those teams. We lost to the good teams on our schedule and our division rivals. Which is a problem, I'm not arguing that. But the cupcake part, we did what we were supposed to do.

djohn2oo8
01-30-2011, 10:12 AM
It's not spin. If our schedule was a cupcake schedule because of the NFC West, we did our part by beating those teams. We lost to the good teams on our schedule and our division rivals. Which is a problem, I'm not arguing that. But the cupcake part, we did what we were supposed to do.

good teams don't just win cupcake games, they find ways to beat other good teams. Playoff teams are usually able to play smashmouth football, or make the tough calls when the game is on the line. Kubes is too conservative, yeah defense was a problem, but 4th and 1, you don't punt when you are on the opposng teams 40

JCTexan
01-30-2011, 10:20 AM
It's not spin. If our schedule was a cupcake schedule because of the NFC West, we did our part by beating those teams. We lost to the good teams on our schedule and our division rivals. Which is a problem, I'm not arguing that. But the cupcake part, we did what we were supposed to do.

Which part of the schedule was the cupcake part? I'll assume that would be Denver, Tennessee, Washington, Jacksonville, Oakland & Dallas (since they're the teams 500% or worse). Houston's record was 4-4 against those teams, which is not what you're supposed to do to the cupcake part of the schedule.

JB
01-30-2011, 10:26 AM
Which part of the schedule was the cupcake part? I'll assume that would be Denver, Tennessee, Washington, Jacksonville, Oakland & Dallas (since they're the teams 500% or worse). Houston's record was 4-4 against those teams, which is not what you're supposed to do to the cupcake part of the schedule.

He was talking about the 2009 season and the NFC West

JCTexan
01-30-2011, 10:38 AM
He was talking about the 2009 season and the NFC West

:mariopalm: That's what I get for not seeing what he was responding to.

Dishman
01-30-2011, 10:50 AM
As a kid I remember the Oilers being terrible until Glanville came along. Sure he pulled some ridiculous stunts here and there but there were good things too. Buying tickets to avoid blackouts is something I remember happening quite a few times.

Of coure you have the defense and the House of Pain Astrodome that he brought about. The hitlists in the locker room, the attitude, as I remember teams weren't very fond of coming to the Dome to play.

I'm not trying to defend Bud by any means, I just don't like people acting like Glanville sucked so bad and leaving out the good spots.


My family moved to Houston from Corpus in '88 when I was 12. I cut my NFL-watching teeth and Oilers fandom during those Glanville years. Those are some pretty good memories. Things seemed to turn into a circus in later years with Pardee, etc. and Buddy Ryan taking on Kevin Gillbride.

Wolf
01-30-2011, 11:09 AM
There’s no joy in Glanville. In their first at-bat, the coach ordered his Houston Oilers to try an unorthodox, surrealistic play. They hoped it would catch the Denver Broncos snoozing.

Houston lined up in a three-part offense, a weird configuration with receivers split wide left and wide right behind two little walls of seemingly displaced linemen.

The stunt would’ve worked if the Oilers had field position better than their own 4-yard line. And if Mike Rozier hadn’t fumbled the football. And if Denver’s defense had simultaneously suffered six heart attacks and five strokes.

But, instead of shocking the Broncos, the Oilers shot themselves in the boot. Jerry Glanville’s trickery turned to slop, and a Sunday tone was set for Houston disaster.


9 minutes into it Bruce Mathews talking about it LOL (http://titanstracker.com/2008/11/29/stagger-lee-and-the-last-oiler/)

Txn_in_Oki
01-30-2011, 11:25 PM
9 minutes into it Bruce Mathews talking about it LOL (http://titanstracker.com/2008/11/29/stagger-lee-and-the-last-oiler/)

I thought it was interesting that at round 2:30 - 2:40 he talks about being the masters of the end of the season, winning at the end to give hope for next season.

Sound familiar?

TheMatrix31
01-31-2011, 06:39 AM
I'm sure it's been said in the 11 pages, but yeah, maybe Fisher and Cecil being gone means the Titans won't be dirty, cheapshotting punk bitches anymore. At least maybe not as bad.


....wishful thinking, but hey