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View Full Version : Von Miller, Justin Houston or Brandon Harris?


PHAROAH
01-23-2011, 12:42 PM
Alright guys it's time to start shifting our focus away from the 2010 season and now it's time to focus on what to do with our 1st round pick. I have been review film and the question that I have for everyone is if OLB - Von Miller isn't available at #11 who would be your choice? I was watching film on prospects and there are two players that most scouts are starting to move up the 1st round board and they are OLB - Justin Houston {UGA} & CB - Brandon Harris {UM}. I love all 3 prospects but we can only draft one of them and they are all at a position of need please add your thoughts. Justin Houston reminds me of Demarcus Ware & Von Miller is just a Beast and plays a lot like Clay Matthews up in Green Bay and CB - Brandon Harris can flat out cover, I know that this depends on what we do in free agency but give me your thoughts.



Von Millier: 6'3 240 40: 4.60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE


Justin Houston: 6'3" 260 40: 4.75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR0L2RVId90



Brandon Harris: 5'11 195 40: 4.45


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0yjcu9CJvc

:brando:

Brando
01-23-2011, 01:16 PM
Alright guys it's time to start shifting our focus away from the 2010 season and now it's time to focus on what to do with our 1st round pick. I have been review film and the question that I have for everyone is if OLB - Von Miller isn't available at #11 who would be your choice? I was watching film on prospects and there are two players that most scouts are starting to move up the 1st round board and they are OLB - Justin Houston {UGA} & CB - Brandon Harris {UM}. I love all 3 prospects but we can only draft one of them and they are all at a position of need please add your thoughts. Justin Houston reminds me of Demarcus Ware & Von Miller is just a Beast and plays a lot like Clay Matthews up in Green Bay and CB - Brandon Harris can flat out cover, I know that this depends on what we do in free agency but give me your thoughts.



Von Millier: 6'3 240 40: 4.60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE


Justin Houston: 6'3" 260 40: 4.75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR0L2RVId90



Brandon Harris: 5'11 195 40: 4.45


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0yjcu9CJvc

:brando:


Just looking at the videos you posted, I really like Justin Houston. He would make a great OLB in the 3-4.

Trap_Star
01-23-2011, 01:20 PM
houston is and will be a beast...harris i like if we trade back into the late teens....i like von but he scares me a little. i can't help but think that he reminds me a bit of aaron maybin.

beerlover
01-23-2011, 01:21 PM
I think Pollard could do some of the same things as Von Miller?

gary
01-23-2011, 01:24 PM
There won't be any free agents untill a new CBA has been reached.

Trap_Star
01-23-2011, 01:25 PM
There won't be any free agents untill a new CBA has been reached.

???

the new CBA won't affect the draft.

steelbtexan
01-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Miller if given these choices, trading down to about 20 and taking Houston would be the way to go. If they can find a trading partner.

Aldon Smith is a guy that should be in this conversation though.

That guy has a chance to be a superstar. If he plays to his potential

steelbtexan
01-23-2011, 01:30 PM
???

the new CBA won't affect the draft.

Nope

But it will affect rookie salaries. There's going to be a rookie salary cap.

gary
01-23-2011, 01:33 PM
???

the new CBA won't affect the draft.The OP said it depends on which free agents are brought in and we may not know that for awhile.

steelbtexan
01-23-2011, 01:35 PM
I think Pollard could do some of the same things as Von Miller?

I've got a feeling that Pollard isn't long for Houston.

The S have to be able to cover in Phillips 3-4 scheme. That's not Pollard's strong suit.

Trap_Star
01-23-2011, 01:37 PM
The OP said it depends on which free agents are brought in and we may not know that for awhile.

gotcha....meh, it's not like we ever make splashes in FA, uncle bob doesn't believe in that....we need to draft the BPA on defense.

gary
01-23-2011, 01:43 PM
gotcha....meh, it's not like we ever make splashes in FA, uncle bob doesn't believe in that....we need to draft the BPA on defense.Building through the draft for the most part is fine but that does not mean you shouldn't make some big splashes in free agency every once in awhile.

beerlover
01-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Miller if given these choices, trading down to about 20 and taking Houston would be the way to go. If they can find a trading partner.

Aldon Smith is a guy that should be in this conversation though.

That guy has a chance to be a superstar. If he plays to his potential

Aldon scares me, last time Texans drafted for potential, Okoye, he has yet to turn out. Trading down scares me too. guess I'm turning into a big ol' chicken my old age :chicken:

mussop
01-23-2011, 02:17 PM
I think Pollard could do some of the same things as Von Miller?

Im surprised so many feel this way. Its what I have been thinking for awhile. Houston looks like the safer more reliable pick if we go OLB IMO. I could see us going with him as an ILB as well but am hoping for Casey Mathews late in the draft.

PHAROAH
01-23-2011, 03:41 PM
DE - Aldon Smith is a major project IMO I like Houston due to the fact he has played at a high level in the 3-4 & 4-3 and he led the SEC sacks in 2009 and followed DT- Nick Fairly in 2010 as a true 3-4 OLB in the best conference in college football. I think that J. Houston will rise on a lot 3-4 teams boards after they see him in work outs he looks to be a top 15 player when it's all said & done look Demarcus Ware came out of Troy and after his workouts he shot up the boards.

IDEXAN
01-23-2011, 05:51 PM
Houston sounds like the safe pick, maybe the smart pick if the Texans go edge-rusher with their first pick but Aldon Smith is tempting, maybe too temping ? But as far as comparing him to Okoye, where's the comparison ? Smith may be a project, but Okoye wasn't thought to be. He was maybe young, but he didn't come out early, he played all years of eligibility.
Okoye just wasn't worthy of the #10 overall, but not necessarily a project because he started from Day 1.

rmartin65
01-23-2011, 06:02 PM
Get Houston in Houston!

aussie_texan
01-23-2011, 07:35 PM
i would still take Miller at 11 if his there.

but i dont mind the idea of trading down for houston either because then we can get an extra pick (along with our possible compensation pick) and be able to turn over this D in no time.

houston possibly is a safer pick....but is that what we want (safe = mediocre) im not saying houston is mediocre but what i am saying is, that we could take the risk of taking an undersized but potentially explosive player in miller and we could have a great playmaker on our team.

Its what championship teams do, they take sometimes risky players and turn them into gems.

Miller will always be undersized but once he comes into the nfl after a season or 2 he will put on a bit of weight so it isnt as much of a liability.

PS no way would i take harris at 11. We can find a corner in the later rounds.
Everyone was complaining because we had a young secondary so why take another rookie.
I believe we will get a vet CB in free agency that will fill that void.

Secondary is as much as good scheming as good players, wade will turn as around i have faith!

GO TEXANS!

steelbtexan
01-23-2011, 09:02 PM
Aldon scares me, last time Texans drafted for potential, Okoye, he has yet to turn out. Trading down scares me too. guess I'm turning into a big ol' chicken my old age :chicken:

Yeah, I'm a gambler. Smith's a player though.

The thing I want really out of this draft is to fix the secondary.

How long has it been since there has been an above avg S has played for the Texans. Answer? Never.

This crap has to stop.

Gary and Rick have to do a better job. Lord knows they have done a terrible job so far.

Look at Smith's 4 first rd draft picks

1.OyOye = Bust
2. D.Brown= OK
3.Cushing= Who knows
4.K.Jackson= Maybe a nickle CB

Hopefully things will get better. Or atleast Gary will show up at the combine.

Time will tell

I would Love to see Houston on this team. Would you agree that the there will be anabove avg player at # 11? If so, its Smithiaks job to find that guy.

Right now I would trust you to run a draft board better than Smithiak. There's 5 yrs of proof. I would take 5 yrs of your mocks over the 5yrs crap Smithiak have served up on a platter to us. But you and I both know there's alot of political crap that goes on within the Texans management.

JB
01-23-2011, 09:21 PM
Shortened to read... Smithiak drafting of defensive players has sucked!


Hopefully with Wade here, Smith wont have the sayso on the defensive picks. And after watching Miller in the bowl game, it would scare me if he were the pick. I don't know about Smith. Any I agree, we have to get some safety help this offseason.

steelbtexan
01-23-2011, 09:29 PM
Hopefully with Wade here, Smith wont have the sayso on the defensive picks. And after watching Miller in the bowl game, it would scare me if he were the pick. I don't know about Smith. Any I agree, we have to get some safety help this offseason.

Thanks for giving me a break.

I was fortunate enough to get to watch the Bear game with Bear fan.

A few adult beverages later butt kicking was complete.

Steeler/Packer SB who wins?

JB
01-23-2011, 10:00 PM
Thanks for giving me a break.

I was fortunate enough to get to watch the Bear game with Bear fan.

A few adult beverages later butt kicking was complete.

Steeler/Packer SB who wins?

I'm thinking Pack, and hope so! But the Steelers are going to be very tough.

steelbtexan
01-23-2011, 10:27 PM
Never count out the Steelers in a SB

Remember the Steelers vs Seahawks.

The worst officiated game I've ever seen.

Doppelganger
01-23-2011, 10:53 PM
I have watched a decent amount of Von Miller and he reminds me of Elvis Dumervill. Undersized, high motor, gets pressure, but heady player that does not lose his cool and get stupid 15 yard penalties.

I have not seen as much Houston, but I have seen him compared favorably to Clay Matthews and James Harrison. I don't know much about those comparisons, but if true, then it is really a matter of who do you prefer in a 3-4: Elvis Dumervill or Clay Matthews/James Harrison?

Harrison was talked up as a potential shutdown corner until he was burnt by Michael Floyd for 100+ yrds and 2 tds. So, was he doing well against inferior competition, did he have an off game, is he not as good as advertised? I don't think he is the second coming of Revis, but if we traded down I woulod consider him depending on who else is still on the board.

However, I prefer the two OLB prospects much more.

VTexan
01-24-2011, 02:02 AM
I have watched a decent amount of Von Miller and he reminds me of Elvis Dumervill. Undersized, high motor, gets pressure, but heady player that does not lose his cool and get stupid 15 yard penalties.

I have not seen as much Houston, but I have seen him compared favorably to Clay Matthews and James Harrison. I don't know much about those comparisons, but if true, then it is really a matter of who do you prefer in a 3-4: Elvis Dumervill or Clay Matthews/James Harrison?

Harrison was talked up as a potential shutdown corner until he was burnt by Michael Floyd for 100+ yrds and 2 tds. So, was he doing well against inferior competition, did he have an off game, is he not as good as advertised? I don't think he is the second coming of Revis, but if we traded down I woulod consider him depending on who else is still on the board.

However, I prefer the two OLB prospects much more.

Hopefully he'll drop down and we can snag him in the 2nd round.

TimeKiller
01-24-2011, 08:55 AM
Von Miller is undersized at 6/3 240? I mean even if you wanted him to gain 10 pounds that's a good sized LBer....

Maddict5
01-24-2011, 10:19 AM
Von Miller is undersized at 6/3 240? I mean even if you wanted him to gain 10 pounds that's a good sized LBer....

alot of ppl think he plays around 230 or maybe even less. i agree that he scares me a bit aswell. his game is all about speed. fans will argue he compares to clay but he could just as easily be another maybin or the numerous other bust who just have speed and no moves. plus hes hasnt played 3-4 olb. big risk imo

dont know much about houston but his basement seems on another level to von's.. plus lets not forget his ceiling is a great edge rusher also. imo it seems a pretty easy decision between those two

Maddict5
01-24-2011, 10:30 AM
i would still take Miller at 11 if his there.

but i dont mind the idea of trading down for houston either because then we can get an extra pick (along with our possible compensation pick) and be able to turn over this D in no time.

houston possibly is a safer pick....but is that what we want (safe = mediocre) im not saying houston is mediocre but what i am saying is, that we could take the risk of taking an undersized but potentially explosive player in miller and we could have a great playmaker on our team.

Its what championship teams do, they take sometimes risky players and turn them into gems.

Miller will always be undersized but once he comes into the nfl after a season or 2 he will put on a bit of weight so it isnt as much of a liability.



im calling BS on this one

good team generally hit on their early picks... crap teams are more likely to take your advice looking for that risky homerun player- who more often than not flames out and their back at square run.

houston just played a great season at 3-4 olb, is a passrusher & playmaker, has good power & closing speed. so why feel the need to take the chance on a much lighter & weaker player, who hasnt played the position & by your own admission needs a couple yrs to put on the weight to be a possible impact olb and whose pass rushing moves are quite limited. just because hes faster and IF he puts all those things together, he'll be a great olb

aussie_texan
01-24-2011, 06:30 PM
im calling BS on this one

good team generally hit on their early picks... crap teams are more likely to take your advice looking for that risky homerun player- who more often than not flames out and their back at square run.

houston just played a great season at 3-4 olb, is a passrusher & playmaker, has good power & closing speed. so why feel the need to take the chance on a much lighter & weaker player, who hasnt played the position & by your own admission needs a couple yrs to put on the weight to be a possible impact olb and whose pass rushing moves are quite limited. just because hes faster and IF he puts all those things together, he'll be a great olb

good teams yes generally get good value for their picks however sometimes they do take the risky option.

my man argument for miller is that he is a playmaker with instinct and that is something that you cant teach and can be only natural.

Miller probably would take an extra season then houston to be the pass rusher we wont him to be but its not like we are going to be competing for a superbowl next year (but i do see as having a winning season)

However they both have great potential and i would be happy with either.

Doppelganger
01-24-2011, 07:26 PM
good teams yes generally get good value for their picks however sometimes they do take the risky option.

my man argument for miller is that he is a playmaker with instinct and that is something that you cant teach and can be only natural.

Miller probably would take an extra season then houston to be the pass rusher we wont him to be but its not like we are going to be competing for a superbowl next year (but i do see as having a winning season)

However they both have great potential and i would be happy with either.

Good teams become good teams by making safe picks that pan out. Good teams become great teams by taking the risky player that ends up producing. Conversely, good teams still remain good teams if the risk does not work out. On the other hand, the bad teams taking risky players continue to be bad teams. See Detroit Lions under Matt Millen.

VTexan
01-24-2011, 10:28 PM
I think Miller is the safest OLB we can take in the draft. He just makes plays, hustles, and is smart.

JB
01-24-2011, 10:57 PM
I think Miller is the safest OLB we can take in the draft. He just makes plays, hustles, and is smart.

Miller just scares the hell out of me. Much like Maybin.

Trap_Star
01-24-2011, 11:10 PM
i see maybin as well. he's a boom or bust prospect, there won't be an in between with him. houston is the safest IMO. he's going to be a d-ware type player.

IDEXAN
01-25-2011, 08:30 AM
Von Miller is undersized at 6/3 240? I mean even if you wanted him to gain 10 pounds that's a good sized LBer....
Miller weighed-in at the Senior Bowl @ 237. That's real small for an NFL LB, and if he adds 10 or 15 pounds he compromises his greatet asset which is his speed & quickness.

Blake
01-26-2011, 03:15 PM
Miller just scares the hell out of me. Much like Maybin.

i see maybin as well. he's a boom or bust prospect, there won't be an in between with him. houston is the safest IMO. he's going to be a d-ware type player.

Miller weighed-in at the Senior Bowl @ 237. That's real small for an NFL LB, and if he adds 10 or 15 pounds he compromises his greatet asset which is his speed & quickness.

This is just what is being reported. But some scouts and draft sites are saying there is 0% chance that Miller drops out of the top 10.

TheCD
01-26-2011, 03:17 PM
This is just what is being reported. But some scouts and draft sites are saying there is 0% chance that Miller drops out of the top 10.

That's what I was wondering in another post. I saw PFT stated he's projected as a top 10 pick, which sounds like he won't fall to us.

HOU-TEX
01-26-2011, 03:30 PM
This is just what is being reported. But some scouts and draft sites are saying there is 0% chance that Miller drops out of the top 10.

That very well may be true, but I went and took a gander at the top 10 teams and came away thinking he could easily fall. Then again, it only takes 1 to fall in love with him.

Carolina- They're in need of a QB and everything else. I think they're a 4-3 anyway.
Denver- Moving back to a 4-3, I think.
Buffalo- They need a QB among other things, but maybe
Cincinnati- They're a 4-3
Arizona- They need a QB, Oline, LBs, but maybe
Cleveland- I think they're going to a 4-3 too. If not, maybe here.
San Francisco- They need a QB
Tennessee- They need a QB, Dline and 4-3 LBs
Dallas- Maybe, but they have Ware and Spencer
Washington- Who friggin knows what the skins do, but they have Orakpo

So, in the end, I didn't prove a damn thing. Other than there are more teams that need a QB than I thought.

Blake
01-26-2011, 03:35 PM
That very well may be true, but I went and took a gander at the top 10 teams and came away thinking he could easily fall. Then again, it only takes 1 to fall in love with him.

Carolina- They're in need of a QB and everything else. I think they're a 4-3 anyway.
Denver- Moving back to a 4-3, I think.
Buffalo- They need a QB among other things, but maybe
Cincinnati- They're a 4-3
Arizona- They need a QB, Oline, LBs, but maybe
Cleveland- I think they're going to a 4-3 too. If not, maybe here.
San Francisco- They need a QB
Tennessee- They need a QB, Dline and 4-3 LBs
Dallas- Maybe, but they have Ware and Spencer
Washington- Who friggin knows what the skins do, but they have Orakpo

So, in the end, I didn't prove a damn thing. Other than there are more teams that need a QB than I thought.

Scott Wright has Buffalo talking him #3.

Or Arizona?

"I also noticed a representative of the Arizona Cardinals speaking with Texas A&M OLB Von Miller and upon further inspection it was none other than their Head Coach Ken Whisenhunt. The two spoke for at least five minutes and once again this player / team combo seems like a perfect match. Could the Cardinals, who run a 3-4 scheme and really need a pass rusher, take Miller at #5 overall?"

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl-Blog.php

bah007
01-26-2011, 03:48 PM
This is just what is being reported. But some scouts and draft sites are saying there is 0% chance that Miller drops out of the top 10.

The same was said about Aaron Rodgers...

HOU-TEX
01-26-2011, 03:53 PM
Scott Wright has Buffalo talking him #3.

Or Arizona?

"I also noticed a representative of the Arizona Cardinals speaking with Texas A&M OLB Von Miller and upon further inspection it was none other than their Head Coach Ken Whisenhunt. The two spoke for at least five minutes and once again this player / team combo seems like a perfect match. Could the Cardinals, who run a 3-4 scheme and really need a pass rusher, take Miller at #5 overall?"

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/SeniorBowl/Senior-Bowl-Blog.php

True, I mentioned Arizona, Buffalo and Cleveland (unless they switch) as maybes. Arizona and Buffalo both need QBs in a bad way, among other things. But you're right, who friggin knows.

If Miller doesn't fall, I'm not sure yet of who'd be worthy of the 11th pick that also might fit a need. Smith, Houston and Ayers are late 1st early 2nd, right? Maybe a CB?

pbat488
01-26-2011, 06:03 PM
this is from the texags propaganda machine, and I'm wholeheartedly slanted towards building von up, but this isn't some average joe talkin' here...

“Two words,” said [THE NFL NETWORK's] Mayock. “Defies. Gravity. Bends parallel to the ground. This guy comes off the edge and it’s scary how quick he gets to the quarterback. In my notes from the season, I had the word ‘wow’ written (about Miller) more than any other player.”

from: linky (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/26/texas-ams-von-miller-creates-senior-bowl-stir/)

also, a link from mcshay regarding von: linky (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=seniorbowl0125&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft2011%2fnotebook%3fpage%3dseniorbowl0125)

drs23
01-26-2011, 06:59 PM
this is from the texags propaganda machine, and I'm wholeheartedly slanted towards building von up, but this isn't some average joe talkin' here...



from: linky (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/26/texas-ams-von-miller-creates-senior-bowl-stir/)

also, a link from mcshay regarding von: linky (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/notebook?page=seniorbowl0125&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft2011%2fnotebook%3fpage%3dseniorbowl0125)

Thanks for posting that. Great read.

JimBaker488
01-26-2011, 10:50 PM
Lance Zeilien said on 1560 this morning that none of the scouts have any problem with VMs size and he thinks he's gone atleast by the 8th pick,
so if he's right sounds like the Texans are gonna have to target somebody
besides Miller for their OLB.

Texan_Bill
01-26-2011, 11:10 PM
VM!!! But yes, JimBaker quoted (or paraphrased) LZ as alas, he'll be gone by the 11th pick! :pissed:

HoustonFrog
01-26-2011, 11:23 PM
VM!!! But yes, JimBaker quoted (or paraphrased) LZ as alas, he'll be gone by the 11th pick! :pissed:

Von Miller is moving up this week..probably Top 5 now..every report I've read has him as being the stud in practice

http://twitter.com/#!/AdamSchefter

AdamSchefter Adam Schefter
To those asking where Texans A+M LB Von Miller will go in the NFL draft, the early signs are, Top 5 pick.

aussie_texan
01-26-2011, 11:42 PM
even if miller goes before 11, we know that there are 3 incredible drafts prospects for his position

Guinn

Miller

Houston

if we pick up any of these guys i will be happy

Trap_Star
01-26-2011, 11:50 PM
i'm glad miller's stock is rising...that means the odds of houston being there at 11 go up :)

Jackie Chiles
01-27-2011, 01:05 AM
even if miller goes before 11, we know that there are 3 incredible drafts prospects for his position

Guinn

Miller

Houston

if we pick up any of these guys i will be happy

Quinn? I'd also add Kerrigan and Smith to that list.

aussie_texan
01-27-2011, 06:28 AM
Quinn? I'd also add Kerrigan and Smith to that list.

yeah robert quinn from UNC

i havnt been sold on smith yet but kerrigan looks also the goods

HOU-TEX
01-27-2011, 10:15 AM
VM!!! But yes, JimBaker quoted (or paraphrased) LZ as alas, he'll be gone by the 11th pick! :pissed:

Hmm, hopefully he accidentally pisses on somebody's hand during the drug test at the Combine or something. Or maybe a huge shart during weigh-ins. Causing him to fall a few spots

El Tejano
01-27-2011, 12:29 PM
Alright guys it's time to start shifting our focus away from the 2010 season and now it's time to focus on what to do with our 1st round pick. I have been review film and the question that I have for everyone is if OLB - Von Miller isn't available at #11 who would be your choice? I was watching film on prospects and there are two players that most scouts are starting to move up the 1st round board and they are OLB - Justin Houston {UGA} & CB - Brandon Harris {UM}. I love all 3 prospects but we can only draft one of them and they are all at a position of need please add your thoughts. Justin Houston reminds me of Demarcus Ware & Von Miller is just a Beast and plays a lot like Clay Matthews up in Green Bay and CB - Brandon Harris can flat out cover, I know that this depends on what we do in free agency but give me your thoughts.



Von Millier: 6'3 240 40: 4.60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE


Justin Houston: 6'3" 260 40: 4.75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR0L2RVId90



Brandon Harris: 5'11 195 40: 4.45


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0yjcu9CJvc

:brando:

Von Miller, really needs a better highlight reel. All I see is a guy that over persues the QB and lets him run for first downs.

IDEXAN
01-28-2011, 06:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR0L2RVId90
!!!!!
Check out Justin Houston's tape from YouTube, this guy is pretty impressive.

Texan4Ever
01-28-2011, 07:12 PM
This is what conerns me about Von Miller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE. After watching him take himself out of plays, I'm thinking Justin Houston would be the better choice than Miller if he's still available.

IDEXAN
01-29-2011, 08:24 AM
I'm not sure why Justin Houston is ranked lower than both Akem Ayers & Aldon Smith on most mocks I've seen ? He looks like an intense, fiery competitor who's performance on tape vs a higher level of competition (SEC) is superior to either of the other two ?

Doppelganger
01-29-2011, 09:07 AM
I'm not sure why Justin Houston is ranked lower than both Akem Ayers & Aldon Smith on most mocks I've seen ? He looks like an intense, fiery competitor who's performance on tape vs a higher level of competition (SEC) is superior to either of the other two ?

And, he played as a 3-4 OLB right now. Smith and Ayers are 4-3 DEs projected to be 3-4 OLBs.

IDEXAN
01-29-2011, 09:57 AM
And, he played as a 3-4 OLB right now. Smith and Ayers are 4-3 DEs projected to be 3-4 OLBs.
Right though I think perhaps Ayers was actually a LB while Smith was a DE ?
But your point is well made, i.e., neither played in a 3-4 while Houston not only played that defensive alignment but played in it @ OLB, one of our primary needs in Wade's new 3-4. It's a postion that is vital to the success of the 3-4.

thunderkyss
01-30-2011, 08:41 AM
.... if OLB - Von Miller isn't available at #11 who would be your choice?

Justin Houston reminds me of Demarcus Ware & Von Miller is just a Beast and plays a lot like Clay Matthews up in Green Bay...

I'm just now starting to look at this years draft prospects. I'm just not into college football. I was under the impression that we (Texans' fans) were interested in Von Miller to be "our" Demarcus Ware. Our pass rush specialist, our 3-4 OLB rush LB..... the guy on the weak side.

Comparisons to Clay Matthews seem to be more apt.... but from what I've seen so far..... not really. & I'm looking at the highlights.... which should be pretty favorable.

Here is a highlight of Von Miller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoQII6vrPHE&feature=related)during the UT game. Is this indicative of his play? Was he just having a bad game? Is this what has you guys excited about him?

Just looking at what I've seen so far, I'm not impressed.

thunderkyss
01-30-2011, 08:47 AM
I was watching film on prospects and there are two players that most scouts are starting to move up the 1st round board and they are OLB - Justin Houston {UGA}


Justin Houston: 6'3" 260 40: 4.75

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR0L2RVId90



Again, I know it's just highlights, but this guy looks slow & lacks explosiveness.

We're talking about using the #11 overall on this guy? or are we talking about trading back to the late first?

thunderkyss
01-30-2011, 08:54 AM
Brandon Harris: 5'11 195 40: 4.45


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0yjcu9CJvc

:brando:

I like this guy. He looks bigger than 5' 11" 195.... he looked fast enough to cover most of those guys, good instincts & technique.....

I would however like a guy who is flat out fast that can cover.

This guy fits what the Texans obviously want in a CB (other than definite cover skills... that's just a bonus) so who knows, maybe this is the guy their looking at.

thunderkyss
01-30-2011, 09:09 AM
I've got a feeling that Pollard isn't long for Houston.

The S have to be able to cover in Phillips 3-4 scheme. That's not Pollard's strong suit.

I think this is being overplayed. Pollard looked pretty good in coverage in 2009, bad in 2010. I think when we lose, we focus on every mistake. When we are winning, when we're making plays... not so much.

Last year I think the coaches got us away from what we did best (better), playing fast & making things happen.

Wade also likes to take a LB off the field & bring in a CB in his nickel packages. Let's say we do take Miller & he plays SOLB..... nickel package, he comes off the field & Quin comes off the bench... or KJac. We've still got 4 DBs on the field.... 3 CBs + FS & Pollard is a Hybrid SS/LB

I like that combination.

Let's say we draft Amukamarah (which moves either Quin or KJac to the nickle). We would never have to come out of our "nickle" package. Pollard is still the hybrid SS/LB who plays the run better than the pass (just like an OLB in the 3-4). Quin & KJac are also pretty good against the run, they're CB/FS hybrids.

Heck, we could move either KJac or Quin to FS & Allen could be our #2 CB or the nickel.

thunderkyss
01-30-2011, 09:19 AM
That very well may be true, but I went and took a gander at the top 10 teams and came away thinking he could easily fall. Then again, it only takes 1 to fall in love with him.

Carolina- They're in need of a QB and everything else. I think they're a 4-3 anyway.
Denver- Moving back to a 4-3, I think.
Buffalo- They need a QB among other things, but maybe
Cincinnati- They're a 4-3
Arizona- They need a QB, Oline, LBs, but maybe
Cleveland- I think they're going to a 4-3 too. If not, maybe here.
San Francisco- They need a QB
Tennessee- They need a QB, Dline and 4-3 LBs
Dallas- Maybe, but they have Ware and Spencer
Washington- Who friggin knows what the skins do, but they have Orakpo

So, in the end, I didn't prove a damn thing. Other than there are more teams that need a QB than I thought.

From watching Von Miller, IMO he's a 4-3 Will.

Are there any top 10 QBs in this draft?

JB
01-30-2011, 09:45 AM
From watching Von Miller, IMO he's a 4-3 Will.

Are there any top 10 QBs in this draft?

Did you watch the senior bowl? Looks like Miller takes coaching very well. He was explosive and disruptive.

Honoring Earl 34
01-30-2011, 09:53 AM
Did you watch the senior bowl? Looks like Miller takes coaching very well. He was explosive and disruptive.

Von Miller is a guy that if he slips to 11 , you take and find a place for him . Did anyone watch A&M play OU ? Miller is a game changer with great instincts and nummbers to prove it .

JB
01-30-2011, 09:55 AM
Von Miller is a guy that if he slips to 11 , you take and find a place for him . Did anyone watch A&M play OU ? Miller is a game changer with great instincts and nummbers to prove it .

Yeah, I feel a lot better about him this morning than I did yesterday. I thought he was coached up and played with great instincts yesterday. Not just a one trick pony.

Honoring Earl 34
01-30-2011, 10:06 AM
Yeah, I feel a lot better about him this morning than I did yesterday. I thought he was coached up and played with great instincts yesterday. Not just a one trick pony.

I'll be curious to see what he runs but he plays fast .

Smith , Quinn , and Houston may have more upside as a 3-4 backer but Miller is a much safer pick . Now if Miller is gone and I'm not giddy over anyone else , do I have the guts to take Taylor and pick up Reed or Acho in the 3rd ? Think Green Bay picking Raji then trading up and taking Mathews .

JB
01-30-2011, 10:07 AM
I'll be curious to see what he runs but he plays fast .

Smith , Quinn , and Houston may have more upside as a 3-4 backer but Miller is a much safer pick . Now if Miller is gone and I'm not giddy over anyone else , do I have the guts to take Taylor and pick up Reed or Acho in the 3rd ? Think Green Bay picking Raji then trading up and taking Mathews .

Do you think Taylor goes in the first?

texanchris
01-30-2011, 10:55 AM
I would say Miller is more or a risky pick and could end up like Maybin or be amazing at OLB. We dont need any more youth in the secondary and it would be better to sign a CB during free agency. I like Houston and think he will be the best person to draft if available. Miller has speed but takes himself out of the play sometimes.

Honoring Earl 34
01-30-2011, 01:10 PM
Do you think Taylor goes in the first?

Guys that are 320 plus that are athletic are hard to find . The only thing in the equation that needs to be answered is if he has a motor .

Lucky
01-30-2011, 01:56 PM
I like Miller & Houston. But I have to ask myself, would it be a better allocation of resources to find a vet ILB and have Cushing on the strongside and Barwin on the weakside? Then they could look at an edge rusher like Brooks Reed or Jeremy Beal in the 3rd. I didn't care for Cushing's tentativeness at MLB last season. He looked a lot more like Brian Cushing after moving back outside.

Hopefully, the QBs get hot by draft day and someone wants to sneak up ahead of Minnesota and take one. The Texans would be best served to move down, pick up additional picks (which they don't have), and take the best defensive player available. One player won't fix the Texans defense. And with the switch to the 3-4, they'll need depth at several positions.

steelbtexan
01-30-2011, 03:32 PM
I like Miller & Houston. But I have to ask myself, would it be a better allocation of resources to find a vet ILB and have Cushing on the strongside and Barwin on the weakside? Then they could look at an edge rusher like Brooks Reed or Jeremy Beal in the 3rd. I didn't care for Cushing's tentativeness at MLB last season. He looked a lot more like Brian Cushing after moving back outside.

Hopefully, the QBs get hot by draft day and someone wants to sneak up ahead of Minnesota and take one. The Texans would be best served to move down, pick up additional picks (which they don't have), and take the best defensive player available. One player won't fix the Texans defense. And with the switch to the 3-4, they'll need depth at several positions.

I was kinda thinking this also. Cushing has never played ILB in his life. He has played SLB in a 3-4 as well as WLB. While at USC.

I'm taking this into account when I do my post Sr.Bowl Mock draft. That will be coming out soon.

JimBaker488
01-30-2011, 04:26 PM
I count 3 teams among the top 5 in the Draft who operate out of the 3-4, and therefor I don't think Miller lasts beyond the 5th pick in the first round.
I watched him Saturday on TV, and he was very impressive as an OLB in the 4-3, which does not give him the ability to showcase his primary skill as an edge rusher in the 3-4 though he did rush the QB a couple times at a DE.
He's extremely quick and also fast and appeared to play with great intensity.
And I'm not concerned about his 40 time in Indy, though I wouldnt be surprised if its fast, maybe very fast. We learned back when Terrell Suggs came out 6 or 7 years and failed to break 4.7 that fast 40 times are unnecessary for a player to be a superior edge rusher.

steelbtexan
01-30-2011, 04:29 PM
40 times aren't everything.

Which is why I think Houston and Smith will be impact OLB's in the 3-4.

Lucky
01-30-2011, 07:37 PM
My major concern with Von Miller is his size. He's light for a 3-4 edge rusher and his frame looks maxed out. When an NFL OT gets their hands on Miller, it's over. It's pretty rare for a 3-4 OLB to get by on speed alone. Derrick Thomas did it. I can't think of many others.

JimBaker488
01-30-2011, 10:41 PM
My major concern with Von Miller is his size. He's light for a 3-4 edge rusher and his frame looks maxed out. When an NFL OT gets their hands on Miller, it's over. It's pretty rare for a 3-4 OLB to get by on speed alone. Derrick Thomas did it. I can't think of many others.
Lanze Zeirlien (1560 Radio) reported from the Senior Bowl this past week that he talked with several NFL persons and none had any concerns about Millers size, and Miller does have very well developed thighs with an impressive bubble and there's virtually no body-fat on his physique.

Texaninlild
01-30-2011, 10:46 PM
alot of ppl think he plays around 230 or maybe even less. i agree that he scares me a bit aswell. his game is all about speed. fans will argue he compares to clay but he could just as easily be another maybin or the numerous other bust who just have speed and no moves. plus hes hasnt played 3-4 olb. big risk imo

dont know much about houston but his basement seems on another level to von's.. plus lets not forget his ceiling is a great edge rusher also. imo it seems a pretty easy decision between those two

Wasn't Miller defensive MVP of the game and a Butkus award winner? Didn't he lead the NCAA in sacks last year? Sounds like a risk to me....

He is a player on the NCAA level and on to the next level. He is not a gamble or a project player.

Lucky
01-30-2011, 10:47 PM
Lanze Zeirlien (1560 Radio) reported from the Senior Bowl this past week that he talked with several NFL persons and none had any concerns about Millers size...
I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.

Texaninlild
01-30-2011, 10:56 PM
I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.

Nagative Ghost Rider...OLB in 3-4 scheme for Miller. He can play anything because he is an Athlete. Isn't James Harrison 5'11" and 230-240?

bah007
01-31-2011, 12:44 AM
Wasn't Miller defensive MVP of the game and a Butkus award winner? Didn't he lead the NCAA in sacks last year? Sounds like a risk to me....

He is a player on the NCAA level and on to the next level. He is not a gamble or a project player.

Every concern about Miller that has been posted in this thread is legit. He is undersized when you compare him to the guys in the NFL who play his position. That's a fact.

A lot of his game is based on speed. That's not necessarily a fact, but when you watch him on tape you can see it. He is not a one trick pony, but you are lying to yourself if you don't think that he relies a lot on his speed to make plays.

And statistical production in college does not mean that a guy will succeed in the NFL. Look at the OLB from Nevada for example. One of the greatest players in his conference's history based on stats. Very comparable career stats to Von Miller. So that means you hold him in the same regardas you hold Miller, right? What about past Heisman winners? Were they all great in the NFL?

When it comes down to millions and millions of dollars every first round pick is a gamble. I wouldn't call Miller a project. I think it is pretty clear what position he plays and that he has the required skills. But based on the above, yes, he is a gamble.

And just so nobody thinks I have a bias against him, I do think he will be a very good NFL player and I would snatch him up at #11, no problem. But that doesn't mean that there cannot be any arguments against him. There are valid reasons.

beerlover
01-31-2011, 01:07 AM
I'm betting Von Miller is going to be one of the most closely followed prospects @ the Combine. Raising these concerns now will only help his stock because it gives him time to focus & address those concerns. I really expect him to add 5 lbs & run a sub 4.5 forty. He shows explosiveness so he should broad & vertical jump top of his position. So I'm not worried as much about his measure-ables but how does he play the game on film. Along with his footwork I want to see exactly how he uses those long arms to shed & disengage blockers to the QB. This maybe one secret to why he becomes an elite pass rusher @ the next level.

thunderkyss
01-31-2011, 05:32 AM
I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.

Agree, if we were playing a 4-3, he'd replace Diles or Sharpton, or whoever our Wil is.

JimBaker488
01-31-2011, 10:35 AM
I never said that Miller couldn't play in the NFL or that he wasn't a blue chip athlete. Just that few NFL 3-4 OLB are his size. And that successful pass rushers who rely strictly on speed are pretty rare. It could be that his best position in the league is a 4-3 Will linebacker.
In part I hear you, but even though his size might be an issue once he hits the field in the NFL I don't think it's going to prevent him from being drafted very high, certainly higher than the 11th pick in the first round. And part of that is the "it only takes one team" reality of paying a huge premium for a player in todays NFL Drafts, even if the pick is risky. And after QBs, there's probably no position/skill that teams are willing to take a bigger chance on than pass rushers with big upsides like Miller.

Texecutioner
01-31-2011, 12:35 PM
The Texans biggest need is a space eating DT period. Anyone ever wonder what makes those LB's so effective on the Ravens and the Steelers in the 3-4 besides having great LB's? Casey Hampton and Ngata (Can't spell the Samoan guy's name). The Texans still have no pass rush and are just terrible in the trenches. Sure, they've used early picks on the D line in the past, but they've swung and missed and they still have those needs. They need to keep picking those guys until they find that real deal DT.

As far as LB's go the Texans have some pretty good LB's for the 3-4 already to what they could wait a year. Cushing should be really good for the 3-4 and Barwin is probably going to thrive in it along with Demeco and Diles. They need a DT much more.

thunderkyss
01-31-2011, 12:41 PM
Sure, they've used early picks on the D line in the past, but they've swung and missed and they still have those needs. They need to keep picking those guys until they find that real deal DT.


I agree with this. I know we drafted Amobi, Okam, & Mitchell in the last 5 years.

I wish we had gone after DTs the way we've gone after TEs. instead of waiting till after week 1 to fill the roster with cast-offs & never was.

Lucky
01-31-2011, 07:35 PM
In part I hear you, but even though his size might be an issue once he hits the field in the NFL I don't think it's going to prevent him from being drafted very high, certainly higher than the 11th pick in the first round.
I don't think the question so much is will Miller be drafted high, or that Miller will find success. More so, what is the best fit for Von in the NFL.

HOU-TEX
02-09-2011, 02:50 PM
With Porter likely on his way out it beginning to look like Miller's darn near a lock to be picked by Arizona.

The Arizona Republic's Kent Somers considers OLB Joey Porter "doubtful" to be back with the Cardinals in 2011.
Porter only had five sacks in 2010, including zero in the final eight games. He turns 34 in March and is due a $5.75M salary,

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

Texaninlild
02-09-2011, 03:37 PM
I don't think the question so much is will Miller be drafted high, or that Miller will find success. More so, what is the best fit for Von in the NFL.

The best fit for Miller is at OLB for the Texans in 2011!

PHAROAH
02-13-2011, 10:44 AM
The Texans may have to move up to get miller or we need to hope that 2 qb's sneak into the top 10 picks and that would make it better for the texans to have a shot at Von.

thunderkyss
02-13-2011, 11:22 AM
The Texans may have to move up to get miller or we need to hope that 2 qb's sneak into the top 10 picks and that would make it better for the texans to have a shot at Von.

Should we do this, because he is that calibre of an athlete?

or

Because he's from A&M?

The top 10 appears to be full of Defensive talent that could help this team. Why should we trade up for this one?

Texaninlild
02-17-2011, 09:38 PM
Should we do this, because he is that calibre of an athlete?

or

Because he's from A&M?

The top 10 appears to be full of Defensive talent that could help this team. Why should we trade up for this one?

Because he is that good!

Texan4Ever
02-17-2011, 09:50 PM
OLBs are hard to grade IMO as many just don't pan out. For the few DeMarcus Ware's of the world, there are a whole lot of Aaron Maybin's and Vernon Gohlston's.

JimBaker488
02-17-2011, 10:03 PM
OLBs are hard to grade IMO as many just don't pan out. For the few DeMarcus Ware's of the world, there are a whole lot of Aaron Maybin's and Vernon Gohlston's.
It's because most NFL 3-4 OLBs in college are DEs in 4-3, and therefor talent evaluators are left to "project" their aptitide and performance capabilities for the next level at their new an untested postions. Lot of uncertainty in those scenarios.

Texan4Ever
02-17-2011, 10:06 PM
It's because most NFL 3-4 OLBs in college are DEs in 4-3, and therefor talent evaluators are left to "project" their aptitide and performance capabilities for the next level at their new an untested postions. Lot of uncertainty in those scenarios.


You're right! Sometimes I wonder if its even worth the risk taking a college DE and converting him into a 3-4 OLB. Several UDFA's have become successful 3-4 OLBs such as James Harrison as well as Cameron Wake so getting an UDFA and taking a gamble on him is better than taking a risk on a 1st rounder.

beerlover
02-17-2011, 10:41 PM
Just like any other position projects fluidley to next level. More than anything the system including personal & coaching more often than not dictate success rate, doesn't nessecarily mean the scout got it wrong or player was totaly invested in changes.

thunderkyss
02-17-2011, 11:48 PM
OLBs are hard to grade IMO as many just don't pan out. For the few DeMarcus Ware's of the world, there are a whole lot of Aaron Maybin's and Vernon Gohlston's.

I think a big factor in the success of a 3-4 OLB, is the system they are in. Demarcus Ware ain't nothing like Clay Matthews.... both are successful, but they are used differently by their respective teams.

aussie_texan
02-18-2011, 09:16 AM
seen as we're talking about 4-3 de becoming 3-4 OLB.

aldon smith hasn't been mentioned much on these boards.
wondering what all you guys think about him?

supposedly is the best athlete in the draft.
a few mocks have us taking him as our 11th pick

IDEXAN
02-18-2011, 09:45 AM
seen as we're talking about 4-3 de becoming 3-4 OLB.

aldon smith hasn't been mentioned much on these boards.
wondering what all you guys think about him?

supposedly is the best athlete in the draft.
a few mocks have us taking him as our 11th pick

I see Jason Pierre-Paul in last years Draft with this guy ?
Classic big upside, but also big downside as he's an athletic freak, but
coming out though leaving 2 years of eligibility on the table so limited tape.
But hey, Matthews only had one big year. And Smith played 4-3 DE at Mizzou
with the kinda frame where he could add lots of weight, but also looks to have potential as a stud 3-4 OLB. Big question is what does Wade think about him ?

drs23
02-18-2011, 01:40 PM
seen as we're talking about 4-3 de becoming 3-4 OLB.

aldon smith hasn't been mentioned much on these boards.wondering what all you guys think about him?

supposedly is the best athlete in the draft.
a few mocks have us taking him as our 11th pick

I believe steelb has brought Aldon Smith up early and often. Prompted me to YouTube him and he looked good. Thank that for what it's worth. ;^)

bah007
02-22-2011, 11:10 AM
One of the big things I like about Justin Houston beyond the obvious is that you don't have to "project" him to 34 OLB. He has already played there and produced.

Wolf6151
02-22-2011, 06:51 PM
One of the big things I like about Justin Houston beyond the obvious is that you don't have to "project" him to 34 OLB. He has already played there and produced.

If we traded down to around 18-20 pick Justin Houston and get an extra 2nd round pick in the process it would restore some of the little faith that I have left in Rick Smith. A trade like that is hard to pull of though since finding a trade partner is difficult at best. Probably just wishful thinking.

Trap_Star
02-23-2011, 02:18 AM
One of the big things I like about Justin Houston beyond the obvious is that you don't have to "project" him to 34 OLB. He has already played there and produced.

i do as well, i liked him all of this past season and really jumped on his bandwagon when the hiring of wade was official. he will be a beast in the NFL. barring anything unforeseen, i'm confident that this time next week talk about him at 11 will be the hottest discussion here.

Brandon420tx
02-25-2011, 09:23 PM
We don't need to draft an OLB, we need to sign Ray Edwards when he becomes a free agent, thats our starting LOLB right there.