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steelbtexan
01-20-2011, 09:41 AM
If Peterson falls to pick #5 or so would you be willing to trade up to get him?

If the Texans were to trade up for Peterson and sign Bailey their secondary would be set for yrs.

CB Bailey,K.Jackson
S,Quin,Peterson

Trading up for Peterson would also give the Texans an elite KR/PR. Adding an elite CB/S and KR/PR would be killing 2 birds with one stone.

How much would you be willing to give up to get Peterson?

JB
01-20-2011, 10:12 AM
It could probably be done for our 1st and 2nd. Yeah, I'd do it!

VTexan
01-20-2011, 10:30 AM
I wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder to trade up 5 spots.

Blake
01-20-2011, 10:42 AM
I wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder to trade up 5 spots.

Thats what it would cost.

I wouldnt do it. This defensive overhaul needs all the high picks it can get its hands on. In fact they need to trade down and pick up a 2nd this year.

kiwitexansfan
01-20-2011, 10:45 AM
No I don't think I would trade up.

I don't like it unless your pretty well set and are looking for a luxury/over the top pick.

We need all the players we can get.

beerlover
01-20-2011, 10:46 AM
Thats what it would cost.

I wouldnt do it. This defensive overhaul needs all the high picks it can get its hands on. In fact they need to trade down and pick up a 2nd this year.

this is exactly my thought too. not only NO, HELL NO!

JB
01-20-2011, 10:54 AM
If you truly thought he was a franchise type player you wouldn't do it? What about this years first and next years second?

beerlover
01-20-2011, 11:05 AM
If you truly thought he was a franchise type player you wouldn't do it? What about this years first and next years second?

long as we're fantasying I would trade our first not once but twice for three second round picks, that would give Wade & Co. four players who could wind up starting in a re-vamped 3-4 :clown:

JB
01-20-2011, 11:06 AM
long as we're fantasying I would trade our first not once but twice for three second round picks, that would give Wade & Co. four players who could wind up starting in a re-vamped 3-4 :clown:

But you wouldn't move up even if you thought Peterson was a Ed Reed type player?

Ole Miss Texan
01-20-2011, 11:07 AM
This draft just has so much defensive talent with all the underclassmen declaring. We could be getting a "1st round grade" type of guy with our 2nd rounder. Our 2nd IMO is worth more this year because of the talent than most other years.

I guess it really depends what our Decision Makers think of the crop of guys ranging from #5-11ish. If they see some special special talents that will likely be available at #11 then I do not make the trade. If they don't think anyone other than Peterson would even be worth the #11 then I'd consider the trade.

That is, they better believe Peterson is the next Troy Polalmalu that can also return kicks/punts if they trade up.


There's just too many unknowns. Would you guys rather have "Troy Polamalu" and no 2nd round pick or "Clay Matthews" and still have our 2nd rounder? The point is, if the Texans think they will be getting a special talent at #11 then the trade won't happen.

gwallaia
01-20-2011, 11:12 AM
Throw in Owen Daniels to sweeten the deal.

beerlover
01-20-2011, 11:12 AM
But you wouldn't move up even if you thought Peterson was a Ed Reed type player?

I don't believe enough in the Texans current front 7 transitioning to a 3-4 to do it, now if Texans had not flopped or performed so badly this past season & stayed with a 4-3 then I would consider it. But that time has come & gone we now have three glaring needs beside secondary, OLB, NT & 3-4 DE.

Blake
01-20-2011, 11:13 AM
But you wouldn't move up even if you thought Peterson was a Ed Reed type player?

I get what you are saying, but even Ed Reed wasnt drafted until #24. You are putting alot of eggs into one basket, and if it doesnt pan out that is ALOT of extra money you are talking about.

#5 Eric Berry - Signed a five-year, $60 million contract. The deal contains $34 million guaranteed.

#11 Anthony Davis - Signed a five-year, $26.5 million contract. The deal contains $15.954 million guaranteed.

The Texans didnt trade up to #5 for Sean Taylor. I doubt they trade up for Peterson.

Playoffs
01-20-2011, 12:11 PM
I wouldn't give up a 2nd rounder to trade up 5 spots.
Too expensive, imo.

steelbtexan
01-20-2011, 03:27 PM
Thats what it would cost.

I wouldnt do it. This defensive overhaul needs all the high picks it can get its hands on. In fact they need to trade down and pick up a 2nd this year.

This defense needs players, Peterson is a great player. Having Bailey and Peterson would give the Texans the best set of CB's they have ever had. It would also help Quins game alot.

If you hated the Texans secondary last yr you should be for this trade.

Sure they need a NT/LB/S/DE., but you can find a NT in the 3rd (Fua,Ellis,Carter,Parker etc...) should be available. If you think you need a LB then trade OkOye and your 4th rd pick to move up to the 3rd rd (Moch,Herzlich,Wright,B.Carter,Foster etc....) should be available.

Then from the 5th rd on you go BPA and hope you hit on a guy or 2.

The Texans should be very aggressive in this yrs draft. Most all of the holes on defense can be filled in this draft. With a little bit of supplement in F.A.

With Smith and Gary's draft record give me the sure thing (Peterson) over what may or may not be there at #11 and a 2nd rd pick. The sad part is this would all be a moot point if the Texans hadn't wom a meaningless game against Jacksonville. (Kubiak's specialty)


The Texans can have a really good young defense if they are willing to spend draft capital/$$$$ to fix it.

History says they wont be willing. But maybe Phillips influence may change the business as usual attitude of the Texans FO. I have my doubts.

For gods sake Kubiak atleast show up to the combine this yr. Even if you pull a Sherman and sleep through it.

steelbtexan
01-20-2011, 03:48 PM
I get what you are saying, but even Ed Reed wasnt drafted until #24. You are putting alot of eggs into one basket, and if it doesnt pan out that is ALOT of extra money you are talking about.

#5 Eric Berry - Signed a five-year, $60 million contract. The deal contains $34 million guaranteed.

#11 Anthony Davis - Signed a five-year, $26.5 million contract. The deal contains $15.954 million guaranteed.

The Texans didnt trade up to #5 for Sean Taylor. I doubt they trade up for Peterson.

They should trade up.

This is the reason they wont trade up.

BTW, didn't the Packers trade back into the 1st rd to take Matthews? I believe they had to pay Raji and Matthews 1st rd $$$$ that yr. Didn't the Steelers trade up to pick Polalmalu? The Jets traded for Holmes/Edwards/Cromartie and signed LT,Taylor,Pool in FA. The Bears traded a kings ransom for Cutler and did the same for Peppers in FA.

Now their teams are on the brink of a SB appearences. Motto of the story is you gotta pay to play. If your #1 goal is winning.

Tell me again what did the Texans do in player personel.

steelbtexan
01-20-2011, 03:52 PM
Too expensive, imo.

This seems to be the theme of the Texans organization.

JB
01-20-2011, 03:54 PM
They should trade up.

This is the reason they wont trade up.

BTW, didn't the Packers trade back into the 1st rd to take Matthews? I believe they had to pay Raji and Matthews 1st rd $$$$ that yr. Didn't the Steelers trade up to pick Polalmalu? The Jets traded for Holmes/Edwards/Cromartie and signed LT,Taylor,Pool in FA. The Bears traded a kings ransom for Cutler and did the same for Peppers in FA.

Now their teams are on the brink of a SB appearences. Motto of the story is you gotta pay to play. If your #1 goal is winning.

Tell me again what did the Texans do in player personel.


Yeah, I think if they were ever going to make a move, this is the year if they think that Peterson is that player. And there appears to be a lot of people that do think he is that player to build your secondary around.

Dutchrudder
01-20-2011, 04:00 PM
I get what you are saying, but even Ed Reed wasnt drafted until #24. You are putting alot of eggs into one basket, and if it doesnt pan out that is ALOT of extra money you are talking about.

#5 Eric Berry - Signed a five-year, $60 million contract. The deal contains $34 million guaranteed.

#11 Anthony Davis - Signed a five-year, $26.5 million contract. The deal contains $15.954 million guaranteed.

The Texans didnt trade up to #5 for Sean Taylor. I doubt they trade up for Peterson.

The 2011 draft signings will be subject to the new CBA rules. So if rookie payscales are put into place, then all of these players will have no leverage to negotiate any outrageous deals.

Blake
01-20-2011, 04:20 PM
The OP asks what we would be willing to give up to get him. And my answer was nada. It appears that yall would give up alot.

We dont have to agree on everything here. :worldpeace:

SAMURAITEXAN
01-20-2011, 04:35 PM
An idea of trading up to draft Peterson is attempting but, we are not one player away from playoffs. We need many players from draft and FA as possible to fill our needs.

JB
01-20-2011, 05:13 PM
An idea of trading up to draft Peterson is attempting but, we are not one player away from playoffs. We need many players from draft and FA as possible to fill our needs.

I think we are 3 or 4 quality players away. If there is a FA period before the draft, we can possibly pick up 1 or 2 there. Maybe even 3. Then you can be a bit bolder in the draft war room.

steelbtexan
01-20-2011, 05:23 PM
I think we are 3 or 4 quality players away. If there is a FA period before the draft, we can possibly pick up 1 or 2 there. Maybe even 3. Then you can be a bit bolder in the draft war room.

Yep

I'm willing to gamble on as sure a thing in this draft as there is. (Peterson)

Then pick up a CB (Bailey and a NT (Franklin) in FA.

If they get lucky they can find an OLB in Rd 3. According to another poster rd1 talent can be found in rd2. Wright for instance is a really good OLB

With these additions added to what is already on this defense. It will be much improved.

Rey
01-20-2011, 08:22 PM
The Texans need to land a start in Free agency and in the draft they need to get guys who can consistently contribute from day one and have the potential to be beast.

That said, I would not trade up for any player...Not even Peterson.

If there was ever a draft that we needed to trade down and pick up as many quality players in the first three rounds...it's this one...

Wolf6151
01-20-2011, 08:54 PM
I think we are 3 or 4 quality players away. If there is a FA period before the draft, we can possibly pick up 1 or 2 there. Maybe even 3. Then you can be a bit bolder in the draft war room.

While I agree that we are 3-4 good players away from being a good defense, I think the best we can hope for in FA is 1 good/average FA. I think the Texans will never go for an Aso or Bailey level of player and both of these guys will be looking to go to a winning franchise. Bailey is close to the end of his career so he'll want a shot at the Super Bowl and Aso has never been to the playoffs, except his rookie year, and he'll want a shot at a winning organization. The only way we'd stand a chance of getting that level of FA is to grossly over pay for them and they're already going to be expensive. We might have a chance at Joseph, Marshall, or Rodgers. Then the best we could hope for in the draft is 2 defensive starters and Gary doesn't seem to like to give rookies a chance to start unless they're taken in the 1st round.

steelbtexan
01-20-2011, 09:05 PM
The Texans need to land a start in Free agency and in the draft they need to get guys who can consistently contribute from day one and have the potential to be beast.

That said, I would not trade up for any player...Not even Peterson.

If there was ever a draft that we needed to trade down and pick up as many quality players in the first three rounds...it's this one...

How many players do you believe are needed to add to this defense for it to become respectable? 4-5

I would say 2 CB's an OLB a S and a NT

Would you like to get a CB and NT in FA ? That fills 2 holes.

How about getting the best CB in the draft. IMHO This is a good draft for OLB's Carter,Wright and Herzlich are studs and one of them will be available in the 3rd rd.

This is also a fairly deep S draft Sash,Tarrant,Sands,Clifford or Hill should be available in the 4th rd and would be better than anybody the Texans played at S last yr.

The Texans have enough picks to rebuild the defense Smith needs to do a better job of drafting players.

Unless Smith is being held back by some kind of immaginary restrictions that TK in another thread said is being placed on him. Although he cant say who is placing said restrictions on Smith.

I'm willing to take chances to get 2/3 great players every yr in the draft and 2/3 really good players in FA. That's how you build a team that isn't a 7-9,9-7 type team.

If the Texans aren't willing to take chances they will continue along the 7-9,9-7 path that they've been on for the last 5yrs.

steelbtexan
01-20-2011, 09:16 PM
While I agree that we are 3-4 good players away from being a good defense, I think the best we can hope for in FA is 1 good/average FA. I think the Texans will never go for an Aso or Bailey level of player and both of these guys will be looking to go to a winning franchise. Bailey is close to the end of his career so he'll want a shot at the Super Bowl and Aso has never been to the playoffs, except his rookie year, and he'll want a shot at a winning organization. The only way we'd stand a chance of getting that level of FA is to grossly over pay for them and they're already going to be expensive. We might have a chance at Joseph, Marshall, or Rodgers. Then the best we could hope for in the draft is 2 defensive starters and Gary doesn't seem to like to give rookies a chance to start unless they're taken in the 1st round.

Disagree

The Texans may have to over pay . But they could add a CB like Ike Taylor and a NT like Franklin or Solari in FA.

Overpaying is the price the Texans will have to pay to make up for poor drafting. If they want to get out of mediocrity.

See my above post for what I would do during the draft. After last yr it's time the Texans used all of their resources. So that the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS never have to sit through another season of having to watch one of the worst defenses in NFL history.

beerlover
01-20-2011, 10:41 PM
how we can discuss free agency when its frozen until futher notice. lets stay focused on draft prospects & the draft because that is the only thing we know for sure is available to us?

JB
01-20-2011, 10:45 PM
how we can discuss free agency when its frozen until futher notice. lets stay focused on draft prospects & the draft because that is the only thing we know for sure is available to us?

Ok, how about a 1st & 3rd this year & a 2nd next year to move up for Peterson with our current roster?

Wolf6151
01-21-2011, 01:38 PM
Disagree

The Texans may have to over pay . But they could add a CB like Ike Taylor and a NT like Franklin or Solari in FA.

Overpaying is the price the Texans will have to pay to make up for poor drafting. If they want to get out of mediocrity.

See my above post for what I would do during the draft. After last yr it's time the Texans used all of their resources. So that the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS never have to sit through another season of having to watch one of the worst defenses in NFL history.

No actually we agree. The Texans will have to overpay for top of the line FA's and is the price for having drafted terribly for so many years. I just don't think the Texans are will to do it. Bottom Line Bob, doesn't like paying big money to big time FA's when Gary seems to have convinced him that he can build through the draft alone.


As for that Peterson trade idea, that's way to expensive. I like the guy and would trade up for him but that price is to high.

Rey
01-21-2011, 04:02 PM
How many players do you believe are needed to add to this defense for it to become respectable? 4-5

I would say 2 CB's an OLB a S and a NT

Would you like to get a CB and NT in FA ? That fills 2 holes.

How about getting the best CB in the draft. IMHO This is a good draft for OLB's Carter,Wright and Herzlich are studs and one of them will be available in the 3rd rd.

This is also a fairly deep S draft Sash,Tarrant,Sands,Clifford or Hill should be available in the 4th rd and would be better than anybody the Texans played at S last yr.

The Texans have enough picks to rebuild the defense Smith needs to do a better job of drafting players.

Unless Smith is being held back by some kind of immaginary restrictions that TK in another thread said is being placed on him. Although he cant say who is placing said restrictions on Smith.

I'm willing to take chances to get 2/3 great players every yr in the draft and 2/3 really good players in FA. That's how you build a team that isn't a 7-9,9-7 type team.

If the Texans aren't willing to take chances they will continue along the 7-9,9-7 path that they've been on for the last 5yrs.

I don't think we have to flood our defense with crazy talent to become "respectable"...

The DC and not the GM was fired. Not saying Smith did an incredible job, but I think that with a more competent person in charge of the defense, this same personnel plays better.

I can't really count how many players we are away from our goals. I can't quantify that.

They could land a guy like Asmougha at corner back, slide Quinn to FS and platoon Pollard and Nolan at SS....A guy like Jason Allen, or maybe even a Kareem Jackson could play the other corner position and I think our secondary would be pretty good.

One high caliber player could have a big impact on either side of the ball all by themselves.

Rey
01-21-2011, 04:06 PM
How many players do you believe are needed to add to this defense for it to become respectable? 4-5

I would say 2 CB's an OLB a S and a NT

Would you like to get a CB and NT in FA ? That fills 2 holes.

How about getting the best CB in the draft. IMHO This is a good draft for OLB's Carter,Wright and Herzlich are studs and one of them will be available in the 3rd rd.

This is also a fairly deep S draft Sash,Tarrant,Sands,Clifford or Hill should be available in the 4th rd and would be better than anybody the Texans played at S last yr.

The Texans have enough picks to rebuild the defense Smith needs to do a better job of drafting players.

Unless Smith is being held back by some kind of immaginary restrictions that TK in another thread said is being placed on him. Although he cant say who is placing said restrictions on Smith.

I'm willing to take chances to get 2/3 great players every yr in the draft and 2/3 really good players in FA. That's how you build a team that isn't a 7-9,9-7 type team.

If the Texans aren't willing to take chances they will continue along the 7-9,9-7 path that they've been on for the last 5yrs.

I don't think we have to flood our defense with crazy talent to become "respectable"...

The DC and not the GM was fired. Not saying Smith did an incredible job, but I think that with a more competent person in charge of the defense, this same personnel plays better.

I can't really count how many players we are away from our goals. I can't quantify that.

They could land a guy like Asmougha at corner back, slide Quinn to FS and platoon Pollard and Nolan at SS....A guy like Jason Allen, or maybe even a Kareem Jackson could play the other corner position and I think our secondary would be pretty good.

One high caliber player could have a big impact on either side of the ball all by themselves.

steelbtexan
01-22-2011, 12:51 AM
I don't think we have to flood our defense with crazy talent to become "respectable"...

The DC and not the GM was fired. Not saying Smith did an incredible job, but I think that with a more competent person in charge of the defense, this same personnel plays better.

I can't really count how many players we are away from our goals. I can't quantify that.

They could land a guy like Asmougha at corner back, slide Quinn to FS and platoon Pollard and Nolan at SS....A guy like Jason Allen, or maybe even a Kareem Jackson could play the other corner position and I think our secondary would be pretty good.

One high caliber player could have a big impact on either side of the ball all by themselves.

the teams with the best defenses are playing in the AFC/NFC champ game Sunday.

So I dont see any reason not to have (as you put it) acrazy good defense.

I cant believe after seeing the crap defense that was on the field this yr. You wouldn't wish for the best crazy good defense possible next yr.

And that means doing whatever it takes to get one including spending $$$$.

steelbtexan
01-22-2011, 12:55 AM
No actually we agree. The Texans will have to overpay for top of the line FA's and is the price for having drafted terribly for so many years. I just don't think the Texans are will to do it. Bottom Line Bob, doesn't like paying big money to big time FA's when Gary seems to have convinced him that he can build through the draft alone.


As for that Peterson trade idea, that's way to expensive. I like the guy and would trade up for him but that price is to high.

Agreed

Except with the last 2 sentences.

Peterson is worth it. IMHO

I'm looking forward to looking back on this topic after next season. Hope you'are too.

This is what makes the draft great.

mussop
01-23-2011, 01:23 PM
IMO Peterson is overrated. You dont know how he will handle a position change. I think he will fall further than people think.

Trap_Star
01-23-2011, 01:26 PM
damn that last meaningless win. :facepalm:

PHAROAH
01-23-2011, 02:43 PM
I would love too but what about the OLB position do we go hard after OLB-Lamarr Woodley in Free Agency as well if we move up for peterson?

Trap_Star
01-23-2011, 02:47 PM
I would love too but what about the OLB position do we go hard after OLB-Lamarr Woodley in Free Agency as well if we move up for peterson?

with the upcoming CBA we don't know what will happen with free agency, but as of right now he's going to be a restricted FA, if im not mistaken...which means if we sign him (it's going to have to be a monster deal) we'd also have to give up picks, which our 1st would have to be included....we all know uncle bob doesn't like traumatic change.

Rey
01-23-2011, 06:14 PM
the teams with the best defenses are playing in the AFC/NFC champ game Sunday.

So I dont see any reason not to have (as you put it) acrazy good defense.

I cant believe after seeing the crap defense that was on the field this yr. You wouldn't wish for the best crazy good defense possible next yr.

And that means doing whatever it takes to get one including spending $$$$.


I think you misunderstood what I said.

I didn't say anything about not needing a good defense...I said that I don't think we have to flood our defense with crazy talent.

Yes, the teams with the best defenses usually have the best shot at play-offs and the Super Bowl, but they are not out spending a bunch of money on guys. They draft well and develop talent.

I don't think we need to go crazy in free agency and I don't think we need to get overly aggressive in the draft (trading up)....

Of course we need talent, but not at the expense of all the things that come with making those types of moves.

76Texan
01-23-2011, 10:11 PM
But you wouldn't move up even if you thought Peterson was a Ed Reed type player?

I didn't follow the draft hardly back then, but it's kind of weird to take a look back only to see that Phillip Buchanon was drafted at #17 and Ed Reed at #24. Didn't they both go to U of Miami?

JB
01-23-2011, 10:15 PM
I didn't follow the draft hardly back then, but it's kind of weird to take a look back only to see that Phillip Buchanon was drafted at #17 and Ed Reed at #24. Didn't they both go to U of Miami?

Yes. But a higher value is always placed on CB's. Moreso then than now.

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 08:09 AM
I think you misunderstood what I said.

I didn't say anything about not needing a good defense...I said that I don't think we have to flood our defense with crazy talent.

Yes, the teams with the best defenses usually have the best shot at play-offs and the Super Bowl, but they are not out spending a bunch of money on guys. They draft well and develop talent.

I don't think we need to go crazy in free agency and I don't think we need to get overly aggressive in the draft (trading up)....

Of course we need talent, but not at the expense of all the things that come with making those types of moves.

Expense? Are you talking $$$$? BoB has plenty of $$$$. Dont worry about BoB's $$$$ he's made plenty off this little investment.

You can find a good NT and a CB (better than anything that was on the team last yr.) while over paying a little but not alot. Having to spend in FA is the price you have to pay for having a historically crappy defense last yr.

In the draft it should be about adding 2/3 great players every yr. If you have to trade up to get those guys. That's what they should do. If they want to have the talent to be a great defense.

The main reason I'm advocating moving up in the draft is the draft record of Rick and Gary. They need to move up to lower the risk of drafting a bust/semi bust. (Okoye/D.Brown/Jackson.) The Texans are picking #11. Remember last time Rick/Gary had a pick this high. (OkOye) I dont want to see that again and moving up increases the odds of not screwing up like that again.

I've got very little faith in the Rick/Gary. When it comes to making decisions in the war room. So moving up is the way to go. IMHO

He** getting Gary to go to the combine would be an improvement over last yrs draft season.

PHAROAH
01-29-2011, 01:42 PM
If we decide to trade up in the NFL Draft we need to get OLB Von Miller and after watching the senior bowl practices we might have to trade up to #5 slot just to get him so that means we will have to possibly trade away either next years 1st round pick if we don't want to give up this years 2nd round pick to do it for a guy who might be able to compare to Lawrence Taylor coming off the edge he is that good .