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Playoffs
01-18-2011, 12:11 PM
I do think Texans got this one right:

One Last Dunta Robinson Post -- We Told You So, Atlanta
by Rivers McCown Jan 18, 2011 7:01 AM CST

After a season in which the Texans pass defense managed to be one of the worst in NFL history, the obvious and easy story was to contrast their success with that of the Falcons. The Falcons, after all, had just plundered "star" CB Dunta Robinson from the Texans for $57 million. They were 13-3. The #1 seed in the NFC. The one with the solid defense. The kind of team Texans fans wished that they could have seen built.

While most of that may be true, the fact remains that Robinson still wasn't any good this year. As we've documented many times here, Robinson's large contract was matched in scale only by the number of accolades piled on him without any acknowledgment that he just doesn't have the deep speed to be a good cornerback anymore.

Falcons fans watched in horror as Aaron Rodgers and the Packers just destroyed their defense. 50+ points were in reach for the Packers had they needed them. 31-36, 366 yards, 3 TD's for Rodgers. For Packers star receiver Greg Jennings: 8 receptions, 101 yards. How many passes thrown at Jennings were defensed? One. Guess who did it? Christopher Owens.

Did that message reach anyone after the game? Actually, a few:

Pete Prisco

---One player who will have to step up his game for the Falcons next season is corner Dunta Robinson. He signed a big contract as a free agent last spring and was a disappointment. Brent Grimes, the other corner, outplayed him. Robinson needs to become a most consistent player. The Falcons need him in a division with good quarterbacks.

Pat Yasinkas

So much for all the talk about how the arrivals of rookie linebacker Sean Weatherspoon and free-agent cornerback Dunta Robinson had made this defense solid. The Falcons were the No. 1 seed in the NFC and they got torn up at home by the No. 6 seed.

Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith, depending on who you think has more power over the defensive outfit, have deservedly taken a lot of heat for going with Kareem Jackson and not being able to bring in a real cornerback to compete and mentor all the youngsters last offseason. As graphic and awful as the Texans secondary was last year because of this, at least the Texans managed to not give a bad cornerback $57 million because there was no one "better" out there. They do deserve some credit for that.

http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-texans/2011/1/18/1941581/one-last-dunta-robinson-post-we-told-you-so-atlanta

disaacks3
01-18-2011, 12:15 PM
I agree that they got the "Dunta Decision" correct.

Unfortunately, it doesn't excuse their failure to acquire a known-good Veteran CB in the offseason to replace him. Trial-by-fire this year was a DISMAL failure. When you're dead-last in the league for Pass Defense, you made more than one bad choice, you simply suck.

2slik4u
01-18-2011, 12:17 PM
I do think Texans got this one right:

One Last Dunta Robinson Post -- We Told You So, Atlanta
by Rivers McCown Jan 18, 2011 7:01 AM CST

After a season in which the Texans pass defense managed to be one of the worst in NFL history, the obvious and easy story was to contrast their success with that of the Falcons. The Falcons, after all, had just plundered "star" CB Dunta Robinson from the Texans for $57 million. They were 13-3. The #1 seed in the NFC. The one with the solid defense. The kind of team Texans fans wished that they could have seen built.

While most of that may be true, the fact remains that Robinson still wasn't any good this year. As we've documented many times here, Robinson's large contract was matched in scale only by the number of accolades piled on him without any acknowledgment that he just doesn't have the deep speed to be a good cornerback anymore.

Falcons fans watched in horror as Aaron Rodgers and the Packers just destroyed their defense. 50+ points were in reach for the Packers had they needed them. 31-36, 366 yards, 3 TD's for Rodgers. For Packers star receiver Greg Jennings: 8 receptions, 101 yards. How many passes thrown at Jennings were defensed? One. Guess who did it? Christopher Owens.

Did that message reach anyone after the game? Actually, a few:





Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith, depending on who you think has more power over the defensive outfit, have deservedly taken a lot of heat for going with Kareem Jackson and not being able to bring in a real cornerback to compete and mentor all the youngsters last offseason. As graphic and awful as the Texans secondary was last year because of this, at least the Texans managed to not give a bad cornerback $57 million because there was no one "better" out there. They do deserve some credit for that.

http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-texans/2011/1/18/1941581/one-last-dunta-robinson-post-we-told-you-so-atlanta

Some really good points here although Im curious of how much his success (or lackthereof) was related to scheme. In any case, Im still happy we didnt over pay for this guy like ATL did.

Good post.

BigBull17
01-18-2011, 12:21 PM
Yeah, if there is a window to trim big money before the CBA and new Cap take effect, Dunta is the first guy cut. He has been fairly awful this year.

gary
01-18-2011, 12:21 PM
Probably would have won four or five more games and been in the playoffs all they had to do is overpay Dunte. What are you talking about?

Shaft75
01-18-2011, 12:25 PM
Probably would have won four or five more games and been in the playoffs all they had to do is overpay Dunte. What are you talking about?

That's sarcasm right?

thunderkyss
01-18-2011, 12:28 PM
I do think Texans got this one right:

One Last Dunta Robinson Post -- We Told You So, Atlanta
by Rivers McCown • Jan 18, 2011 7:01 AM CST


http://houston.sbnation.com/houston-texans/2011/1/18/1941581/one-last-dunta-robinson-post-we-told-you-so-atlanta

Interesting article..... I'll say that. I'll also add, judging from what I've seen from Dunta Robinson, in his entire career here, I can't think of any area of a CBs responsibility that he could have mentored Kareem Jackson in, save run support (& he's a shell of the player he used to be in that department as well).

I'm not one to bag on people, especially people I don't know. But I absolutely have no problem saying we wasted time & money franchising Dunta Robinson in 2009. I have to imagine it was another heart-felt reach out by Bob McNair.... can't fault him for that, it's his money, his player. But the feelings weren't being reciprocated. The money offered was more than generous (if the rumors were correct) he declined, we should have let him walk.... we didn't get anything for him anyway.

But, this article doesn't really get to the heart of the matter, & blames Dunta for that loss.... more or less. But the parts of the game I watched, the corner that outplayed Dunta got thrown towards at least 3 times to every 1 time Rogers threw at Dunta.

gary
01-18-2011, 12:29 PM
That's sarcasm right?
Yup.

thunderkyss
01-18-2011, 12:31 PM
I agree that they got the "Dunta Decision" correct.

Unfortunately, it doesn't excuse their failure to acquire a known-good Veteran CB in the offseason to replace him. Trial-by-fire this year was a DISMAL failure. When you're dead-last in the league for Pass Defense, you made more than one bad choice, you simply suck.

Well, the article did bring up a good question.

Do you think the coaches said those veteran corners weren't good enough for this team?

Do you think the bean counters determined those veterans weren't worth the price tag?

Or

Do you think Rick Smith is not very good at selling the Houston Texans?

OzzO
01-18-2011, 12:36 PM
Well, not supporting Dunta - but Atlanta did have a quality defense all season long and even moreso at home it seems. Atlanta just picked a bad time to have one of there worse overall defensive showings this season, so they'll highlight the most visible issues.

Carr Bombed
01-18-2011, 12:51 PM
Dunta Robinson is a highly overpaid piece of crap. Didn't regret them not signing him then, didn't regret them not signing him when we were historically bad in pass coverage, and don't regret them not singing him now. He's a cry baby, overrated, and a vastly overpaid loser.

Mr teX
01-18-2011, 01:12 PM
Well, not supporting Dunta - but Atlanta did have a quality defense all season long and even moreso at home it seems. Atlanta just picked a bad time to have one of there worse overall defensive showings this season, so they'll highlight the most visible issues.

This is ridiculous...Not saying you Ozzo but some in here...

Anyone who watched that game saw that it was mostly grimes getting his lunch ate. The only reason Grimes was even playing is b/c I believe 1 of thier cb's was out--Brian Williams.

Yeah, dunta gave up some plays..still doesn't mean he wasn't a solid corner for them this year. Their defense was solid all year for the most part. He was part of crop of players brought in to help them improve they're woeful secondary..& he did just that.

It's also ridiculous that we have people in here saying we made the "right" decision regarding dunta when our secondary had more holes in it than a hobo's underpants essentially b/c we were unable to fill the void he & reeves left. Its funny b/c In one vein lots of these same folks are crying about us not ever going after the top FA's & in the other you're reading stuff like this.

Newsflash, If we do hit FA & get the best FA's out there, i'm about 99% sure we'll be overpaying a great deal for whomever that is b/c...what for it..... that's the name of the game. I'm also certain that no matter how good that player is, they likely won't deserve what they are getting. We know about the Haynesworth debacle but as good a Peppers is, even he did not deserve the contract he got. Yeah, yeah he likely won't see all of it but it is arguable that he even deserved the 40 mil or so that he is guaranteed....not for a guy with questions about his motor & work ethic....

You think Champ Bailey or Asomaguha are gonna come here for anything "fair" to the team? Nope, they're gonna do exactly what Dunta did & maximize their value.

So...get over it, Ricky & Gury screwed the pooch with the Dunta situation.

BigBull17
01-18-2011, 01:17 PM
Yup.

Thank God. Was about to unleash my inner "charm".

BigBull17
01-18-2011, 01:19 PM
This is ridiculous...Not saying you Ozzo but some in here...

Anyone who watched that game saw that it was mostly grimes getting his lunch ate. The only reason Grimes was even playing is b/c I believe 1 of thier cb's was out--Brian Williams.

Yeah, dunta gave up some plays..still doesn't mean he wasn't a solid corner for them this year. Their defense was solid all year for the most part. He was part of crop of players brought in to help them improve they're woeful secondary..& he did just that.

It's also ridiculous that we have people in here saying we made the "right" decision regarding dunta when our secondary had more holes in it than a hobo's underpants essentially b/c we were unable to fill the void he & reeves left. Its funny b/c In one vein lots of these same folks are crying about us not ever going after the top FA's & in the other you're reading stuff like this.

Newsflash, If we do hit FA & get the best FA's out there, i'm about 99% sure we'll be overpaying a great deal for whomever that is b/c...what for it..... that's the name of the game. I'm also certain that no matter how good that player is, they likely won't deserve what they are getting. We know about the Haynesworth debacle but as good a Peppers is, even he did not deserve the contract he got. Yeah, yeah he likely won't see all of it but it is arguable that he even deserved the 40 mil or so that he is guaranteed....not for a guy with questions about his motor & work ethic....

You think Champ Bailey or Asomaguha are gonna come here for anything "fair" to the team? Nope, they're gonna do exactly what Dunta did & maximize their value.

So...get over it, Ricky & Gury screwed the pooch with the Dunta situation.

Got friends who are big Falcon fans, he was consistently their weak link on D. Saying he is anything but below average is a strait up lie. We wouldn't have been much better this year with him. Maybe a one game difference.

El Tejano
01-18-2011, 01:22 PM
Interesting article..... I'll say that. I'll also add, judging from what I've seen from Dunta Robinson, in his entire career here, I can't think of any area of a CBs responsibility that he could have mentored Kareem Jackson in, save run support (& he's a shell of the player he used to be in that department as well).

I'm not one to bag on people, especially people I don't know. But I absolutely have no problem saying we wasted time & money franchising Dunta Robinson in 2009. I have to imagine it was another heart-felt reach out by Bob McNair.... can't fault him for that, it's his money, his player. But the feelings weren't being reciprocated. The money offered was more than generous (if the rumors were correct) he declined, we should have let him walk.... we didn't get anything for him anyway.

But, this article doesn't really get to the heart of the matter, & blames Dunta for that loss.... more or less. But the parts of the game I watched, the corner that outplayed Dunta got thrown towards at least 3 times to every 1 time Rogers threw at Dunta.

I believe it had more to do with the season Dunta was having prior to the injury. He's done the same for Owen Daniels. I think Daniels was still showing something though.

Every game I saw of The Falcons, the only thing I kept saying was Somethings Never Change. I still saw Dunta lining up so far off the receiver that he was right next to the first down marker, I still saw him trailing his receiver, and I still saw him get eaten in the endzone.

gary
01-18-2011, 01:29 PM
I believe it had more to do with the season Dunta was having prior to the injury. He's done the same for Owen Daniels. I think Daniels was still showing something though.

Every game I saw of The Falcons, the only thing I kept saying was Somethings Never Change. I still saw Dunta lining up so far off the receiver that he was right next to the first down marker, I still saw him trailing his receiver, and I still saw him get eaten in the endzone.
This. Green Bay ate his lunch last week.

Mr teX
01-18-2011, 01:37 PM
This. Green Bay ate his lunch last week.

Rodgers & Green Bay ate EVERYONE lunch on ATL's defense last week, what's your point? ATL had just beaten them earlier in the year where GB only scored 17 pts. Where was all this then? They just ran into a buzz saw as GB has been in playoff mode for about 4 weeks now..it happens.

gary
01-18-2011, 01:43 PM
Rodgers & Green Bay ate EVERYONE lunch on ATL's defense last week, what's your point? ATL had just beaten them earlier in the year where GB only scored 17 pts. Where was all this then? They just ran into a buzz saw as GB has been in playoff mode for about 4 weeks now..it happens.My point is that post injury Dunte became a diva and his play does not warrent that anymore.

jaayteetx
01-18-2011, 01:45 PM
This is ridiculous...Not saying you Ozzo but some in here...

Anyone who watched that game saw that it was mostly grimes getting his lunch ate. The only reason Grimes was even playing is b/c I believe 1 of thier cb's was out--Brian Williams.

Yeah, dunta gave up some plays..still doesn't mean he wasn't a solid corner for them this year. Their defense was solid all year for the most part. He was part of crop of players brought in to help them improve they're woeful secondary..& he did just that.

It's also ridiculous that we have people in here saying we made the "right" decision regarding dunta when our secondary had more holes in it than a hobo's underpants essentially b/c we were unable to fill the void he & reeves left. Its funny b/c In one vein lots of these same folks are crying about us not ever going after the top FA's & in the other you're reading stuff like this.

Newsflash, If we do hit FA & get the best FA's out there, i'm about 99% sure we'll be overpaying a great deal for whomever that is b/c...what for it..... that's the name of the game. I'm also certain that no matter how good that player is, they likely won't deserve what they are getting. We know about the Haynesworth debacle but as good a Peppers is, even he did not deserve the contract he got. Yeah, yeah he likely won't see all of it but it is arguable that he even deserved the 40 mil or so that he is guaranteed....not for a guy with questions about his motor & work ethic....

You think Champ Bailey or Asomaguha are gonna come here for anything "fair" to the team? Nope, they're gonna do exactly what Dunta did & maximize their value.

So...get over it, Ricky & Gury screwed the pooch with the Dunta situation.

Absolutley not. Paying him what he wanted would have been a HUGE mistake. They screwed the pooch in finding a replacement for him. Big difference.

Blake
01-18-2011, 01:55 PM
I do think Texans got this one right:

One Last Dunta Robinson Post -- We Told You So, Atlanta
by Rivers McCown Jan 18, 2011 7:01 AM CST

:lol: Way to wait until the Falcons get knocked out of the PLAYOFFS by the hottest team in the league to unleash this story.

Total horse crap. The entire Falcons D was Rogers *****.

Texan_Bill
01-18-2011, 01:56 PM
Pete Prisco

---One player who will have to step up his game for the Falcons next season is corner Dunta Robinson. He signed a big contract as a free agent last spring and was a disappointment. Brent Grimes, the other corner, outplayed him. Robinson needs to become a most consistent player. The Falcons need him in a division with good quarterbacks.

Why was he a disappointment, Pete??? He was exactly what, I and many others, thought all along: A mediocre (at best) corner, not worthy of breaking the bank on.

I would much rather baptize a rookie by fire than lock up that much money on a "never will be" corner.

Move along. Nothing more here to see...

Doppelganger
01-18-2011, 01:56 PM
I agree that they got the "Dunta Decision" correct.

Unfortunately, it doesn't excuse their failure to acquire a known-good Veteran CB in the offseason to replace him. Trial-by-fire this year was a DISMAL failure. When you're dead-last in the league for Pass Defense, you made more than one bad choice, you simply suck.

I think you hit the nail on the head. There was no reason to resign him at that level. However, there was also no reason to not sign a veteran CB or two to come in and compete with the kids. Those two decisions are not mutually exclusive.

I give Smithiak an A+ for not signing DR.
I give Smithiak an F for not signing a veteran CB.

Final grade=A (95) + F(10)=105/2=52.5 or an F.
I give Smithiak an F for the way they handled the total situation

Mr teX
01-18-2011, 02:02 PM
[/B]

Absolutley not. Paying him what he wanted would have been a HUGE mistake. They screwed the pooch in finding a replacement for him. Big difference.

There was no one else to replace him with out on the market worth a damn. They went after bodden & he declined. Besides, look at the situation we're in now. That little money we were trying not to give him b/c we were afraid of overpaying him, we're likely going to give up as much or more to another guy that in all liklihood isn't going to be much if any better...hell, we might've even saved money by giving him that contract, Instead everyone's banking on the idea that we might somehow be able to lure Asomagua or Bailey here...who are gonna cost double what it dunta would've costed, especially since Asomaguha just signed a contract not too long ago that pushed the price tag up even more for premimum cb's from the chris gamble contract. You factor in the garbage we have back there...

ChampionTexan
01-18-2011, 02:03 PM
So...get over it, Ricky & Gury screwed the pooch with the Dunta situation.

Possible differences in retaining Dunta compared to what actually happened:

1. Enough additional wins to secure a playoff berth - slim to none (with slim seen leaving town).

2. Additional game or two in the win column - possible, but certainly not a given. Even if it happened, unless there's playoffs involved who really cares at this point.

3. Possible retention of Bush and Gibbs - Given Kubiak and McNair's loyalty to coaches/players they like, I believe an increase of two wins would have made this probable, and a one game increase would certainly have put it in the realm of the possible.

4. $11 million down a rat-hole (resulting in potential future reticence to spend in similar situations, and a possible decrease in the amount available for FA spending this year) - virtually 100%

gary
01-18-2011, 02:04 PM
How anyone in this city still wishes he was still a Texan boggles my mind big time.

gary
01-18-2011, 02:12 PM
It might cost double for Aso or Champ but at least you know what you are getting with them which is a proven all star with either one of them. We don't know how Robinson acted in the lockeroom last season whatsoever.

Mr teX
01-18-2011, 02:14 PM
Possible differences in retaining Dunta compared to what actually happened:

1. Enough additional wins to secure a playoff berth - slim to none (with slim seen leaving town).

2. Additional game or two in the win column - possible, but certainly not a given. Even if it happened, unless there's playoffs involved who really cares at this point.

There's no possible about it..we would've won some of those games b/c K-jax, McCain are likely not on the field..

3. Possible retention of Bush and Gibbs - Given Kubiak and McNair's loyalty to coaches/players they like, I believe an increase of two wins would have made this probable, and a one game increase would certainly have put it in the realm of the possible.



4. $11 million down a rat-hole (resulting in potential future reticence to spend in similar situations, and a possible decrease in the amount available for FA spending this year) - virtually 100%

Again, we're basically in that situation now..spending big time money on some retread that likely will be about the same caliber..see mr. reeves.



It is what it is..keep hope alive that Bailey or Asomagua feel sorry for us decide to sign here don't hold your breath though.

Norg
01-18-2011, 02:18 PM
SO does this mean we Cut Owen Daniles ?????

gary
01-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Dunte did NOT want to be here period.

Mr. Texan
01-18-2011, 02:27 PM
dude is an overpaid bum.

glad we got rid of him :bender:

disaacks3
01-18-2011, 02:54 PM
SO does this mean we Cut Owen Daniles ?????

Why would we cut Owen? Owen was a top-five talent at TE BEFORE his injury, DR was never top 5 at CB, ever...

Now, that said....If Owen has another lackluster year NEXT year, acts like a prima donna and THEN demands top-5 $$, THEN we franchise him for a year, THEN he whines to the media, and then still won't negotiate in good faith with the Texans...then YES, cut him.

Texan_Bill
01-18-2011, 03:00 PM
Why would we cut Owen? Owen was a top-five talent at TE BEFORE his injuries, DR was never top 5 at CB, ever...

Now, that said....If Owen has another lackluster year NEXT year, acts like a prima donna and THEN demands top-5 $$, THEN we franchise him for a year, THEN he whines to the media, and then still won't negotiate in good faith with the Texans...then YES, cut him.

First sentence corrected for accuracy!

dream_team
01-18-2011, 03:20 PM
I agree that they got the "Dunta Decision" correct.

Unfortunately, it doesn't excuse their failure to acquire a known-good Veteran CB in the offseason to replace him. Trial-by-fire this year was a DISMAL failure. When you're dead-last in the league for Pass Defense, you made more than one bad choice, you simply suck.

They did go after Bodden... but in the end, he really never actually wanted to leave New England. Just using us as leverage. Hell, after pre-season, we all thought the Kareem & Glen combo was an upgrade from last season.

I don't think anyone saw the secondary sucking this much.

Maddict5
01-18-2011, 03:32 PM
This is ridiculous...Not saying you Ozzo but some in here...

Anyone who watched that game saw that it was mostly grimes getting his lunch ate. The only reason Grimes was even playing is b/c I believe 1 of thier cb's was out--Brian Williams.

Yeah, dunta gave up some plays..still doesn't mean he wasn't a solid corner for them this year. Their defense was solid all year for the most part. He was part of crop of players brought in to help them improve they're woeful secondary..& he did just that.

It's also ridiculous that we have people in here saying we made the "right" decision regarding dunta when our secondary had more holes in it than a hobo's underpants essentially b/c we were unable to fill the void he & reeves left. Its funny b/c In one vein lots of these same folks are crying about us not ever going after the top FA's & in the other you're reading stuff like this.

Newsflash, If we do hit FA & get the best FA's out there, i'm about 99% sure we'll be overpaying a great deal for whomever that is b/c...what for it..... that's the name of the game. I'm also certain that no matter how good that player is, they likely won't deserve what they are getting. We know about the Haynesworth debacle but as good a Peppers is, even he did not deserve the contract he got. Yeah, yeah he likely won't see all of it but it is arguable that he even deserved the 40 mil or so that he is guaranteed....not for a guy with questions about his motor & work ethic....

You think Champ Bailey or Asomaguha are gonna come here for anything "fair" to the team? Nope, they're gonna do exactly what Dunta did & maximize their value.

So...get over it, Ricky & Gury screwed the pooch with the Dunta situation.

smh..

1. fyi grimes is their other starter & any atlanta game i saw him play this year he was actually a very good overall corner that makes occassionally great play. even when he got beat by GB, he was in great position justy rodgers & the wrs mad great plays. dunta, while not terrible, was getting beat regularly when team picked on him much like his last season with us.

the fact that you didnt know that (misheard the announcer on sunday im guessing) is telling when reading your evaluation of dunta. im guessing you havent watched too much of dunta and atlanta all yr

2. why would it have made a difference whether we gave dunta that huge contract or not. imo he wouldve been beaten on many of the same routes v SD, skins etc that kareem was b/c, like kareem, his long speed isnt up to it so if we had signed him we would have pretty much had the same record and possibly a touch better secondary but we'd be going after some 'j.a.g.' cb this offseason cos we'd have so much money invested in the position we couldnt afford anybody decent. like somebody else said, id rather give someone elite like nnamdi a ridiculous $100+m contract than give dunta $60m cos at least you'd be getting money's worth with him

Maddict5
01-18-2011, 03:39 PM
First sentence corrected for accuracy!

all players have 'injuries' if you count pulled muscles...

OD was back to his old self by the end of this yr. hes gonna have a monster yr imo next yr if he says healthy (his last 4 games of this yr project to a 1000+ yds season & 8 tds). dunta never regained his preinjury level of play

Texan_Bill
01-18-2011, 03:40 PM
Yeah, dunta gave up some plays..

Well if anything, I will give him consistency!

Mr teX
01-18-2011, 04:35 PM
smh..

1. fyi grimes is their other starter & any atlanta game i saw him play this year he was actually a very good overall corner that makes occassionally great play. even when he got beat by GB, he was in great position justy rodgers & the wrs mad great plays. dunta, while not terrible, was getting beat regularly when team picked on him much like his last season with us.

the fact that you didnt know that (misheard the announcer on sunday im guessing) is telling when reading your evaluation of dunta. im guessing you havent watched too much of dunta and atlanta all yr

2. why would it have made a difference whether we gave dunta that huge contract or not. imo he wouldve been beaten on many of the same routes v SD, skins etc that kareem was b/c, like kareem, his long speed isnt up to it so if we had signed him we would have pretty much had the same record and possibly a touch better secondary but we'd be going after some 'j.a.g.' cb this offseason cos we'd have so much money invested in the position we couldnt afford anybody decent. like somebody else said, id rather give someone elite like nnamdi a ridiculous $100+m contract than give dunta $60m cos at least you'd be getting money's worth with him

LOL about grimes....He's a faster glover quinn..nothing more. The fact that they felt they needed to go out & get Dunta says alot..lets also not forget too that they had one of the worst secondaries in the league last year & he now covers the #2 WR.

& I call bull. Dunta wasn't getting torched on fly routes by 3rd rate WRs like AJjirotututut at any point his last year here. Dunta wasn't falling down every other freaking play like everyone in our freaking secondary was this year. Routes he gets beat on are routes that every cb in the league gets beat on....quick slants & back shoulder throws; that includes Nmandi & Champ & Revis. There's a reason for that...it's b/c they are the toughest routes to defend. & I watched enough of dunta in ATL to know that he was usually in the right position just like he was here. Give credit to the teams #1 WR & QB like you're doing when you pump up brent grimes.

& what exactly are you talking about with the bolded? You're basically in that situation now considering what you spent on a rookie cb contract in 2010 + plus what you're about to drop for one of those "J.A.G." cb's you were worried about taking on. Hell, you might already be in that situation if they decide to keep Jason Allen, Bernard Pollard is brought back & you get some scrub off the street. All that posturing not to overpay him has only resulted in a historically bad secondary in 2010 & the eventual realization that you're going to have to spend more & overpay for someone else in 2011 anyway!

Carr Bombed
01-18-2011, 04:46 PM
LOL about grimes....He's a faster glover quinn..nothing more. The fact that they felt they needed to go out & get Dunta says alot..lets also not forget too that they had one of the worst secondaries in the league last year & he now covers the #2 WR.

& I call bull. Dunta wasn't getting torched on fly routes by 3rd rate WRs like AJjirotututut at any point his last year here. Dunta wasn't falling down every other freaking play like everyone in our freaking secondary was this year. Routes he gets beat on are routes that every cb in the league gets beat on....quick slants & back shoulder throws; that includes Nmandi & Champ & Revis. There's a reason for that...it's b/c they are the toughest routes to defend. & I watched enough of dunta in ATL to know that he was usually in the right position just like he was here. Give credit to the teams #1 WR & QB like you're doing when you pump up brent grimes.

& what exactly are you talking about with the bolded? You're basically in that situation now considering what you spent on a rookie cb contract in 2010 + plus what you're about to drop for one of those "J.A.G." cb's you were worried about taking on. Hell, you might already be in that situation if they decide to keep Jason Allen, Bernard Pollard is brought back & you get some scrub off the street. All that posturing not to overpay him has only resulted in a historically bad secondary in 2010 & the eventual realization that you're going to have to spend more & overpay for someone else in 2011 anyway!

LMAO, Atlanta fans HATE Dunta (mainly because with his contract they thought they were getting a #1 corner which Dunta isn't, at best he's just a average #2) and consider him a FA BUST. My brother in law is a huge Falcons fans, I have to hear all the time how they overpaid for that bum. They can't stand him there and consider him J.A.G.

The guy is a terd, but he's a highly paid terd. He sucks and might be the most overrated player at his position. Again, glad for once we weren't stupid enough to pull off a boneheaded move like making Dunta one of the highest paid players in the league.

TexansFanatic
01-18-2011, 04:49 PM
The Falcons have obviously done well in assembling a talented roster, which makes it even more puzzling that they saw $50+ million worth of talent in Dunta.

I was happy to see him go. But I'll never understand why there wasn't a more emphatic effort to replace him. Going to war with such an inferior secondary is unforgivable for a head coach. (Except to Bob McNair.)

Wolf
01-18-2011, 04:55 PM
Well looking at stats , he did better in Houston
More tackles(64-55), couple more pass defended(9-7), one forced fumble.. But he had more ints in Atlanta ( one there to zero here)

Yeah he would have made a difference and be worth all that money :sarcasm:


Http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=5535


ESP being he didn't want to be here anyway

Texan_Bill
01-18-2011, 04:58 PM
I was happy to see him go. But I'll never understand why there wasn't a more emphatic effort to replace him. Going to war with such an inferior secondary is unforgivable for a head coach. (Except to Bob McNair.)

Who was out there? Leigh Bodden?? :thinking:

Kicking the tires on a corner ain't going to help the other 3 DB spots. That's why I said in retrospect, I have no problems with Baptizing Jackson by throwing him into the fire. Look, now he's got a full season under his belt. I would rather see us address the Safety position(s).

houstonspartan
01-18-2011, 04:59 PM
Dunta Robinson is a highly overpaid piece of crap. Didn't regret them not signing him then, didn't regret them not signing him when we were historically bad in pass coverage, and don't regret them not singing him now. He's a cry baby, overrated, and a vastly overpaid loser.

Lol.

Agree. I was done with the guy when it was obvious he wanted to leave, yet kept denying it. I respect him wanting to play for a winner, but he was completely disingenuous about the whole thing. Glad he's gone.

Wolf
01-18-2011, 05:02 PM
Hopefully the texans can take the walker off Jackson and he won't fall down

http://www.hopscotchbaby.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/baby_walker2.jpg
:kitten:

houstonspartan
01-18-2011, 05:02 PM
Dunte did NOT want to be here period.

Exactly. He didn't want to play here anymore.

Carr Bombed
01-18-2011, 05:08 PM
Exactly. He didn't want to play here anymore.

And even if he did want to be here, I'd never sign him to that kind of contract, because he isn't worth it. He's a average player, for the life of me I can't understand why people think he's a difference maker or a special player.

Double Barrel
01-18-2011, 05:20 PM
The Falcons have obviously done well in assembling a talented roster, which makes it even more puzzling that they saw $50+ million worth of talent in Dunta.

I was happy to see him go. But I'll never understand why there wasn't a more emphatic effort to replace him. Going to war with such an inferior secondary is unforgivable for a head coach. (Except to Bob McNair.)

See, the problem here is that you don't know if we're "on the right track" when you're in the caboose looking at where we've been. So you've got to get to the front of the train, in the engine, to look ahead! Cuz we're "on the right track". Tooot toooot!

Here, wear this. It'll make you feel a lot better.

http://littlekidstuff.com/images/aeromax-adult-train-engineer-cap-big.jpg

gary
01-18-2011, 05:30 PM
As brakos would say kiss my ass Dunte.

Carr Bombed
01-18-2011, 05:38 PM
& I watched enough of dunta in ATL to know that he was usually in the right position just like he was here. Give credit to the teams #1 WR & QB like you're doing when you pump up brent grimes.

:lol: http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3903742-robinson-sucks-in-coverage/


The guy is J.A.G. I realize we sucked in pass coverage this year, but Dunta is not and WAS NEVER the answer for our struggles or our problems.....he sucks. Kudos to him for suckering a team/owner out of that money though. He got paid.

wildroot
01-18-2011, 07:00 PM
But, this article doesn't really get to the heart of the matter, & blames Dunta for that loss.... more or less. But the parts of the game I watched, the corner that outplayed Dunta got thrown towards at least 3 times to every 1 time Rogers threw at Dunta.

I didn't watch the game, but this would leave you to believe that Dunta had his man covered since the ball was being thrown at the other CB.....right?

Bubbajwp
01-18-2011, 08:08 PM
If we would have kept Drob we most likely wouldnt have drafted a CB or Kareem Jackson in the first round. Here is a list of players we possibly could have ended up with.

In no order
1. Jermaine Gresham TE (LOL)
2. Demaryius Thomas WR (Him and Andre would be sick)
3. Bryan Bulaga OT
4. Dez Bryant WR (Wow now I want to cry)
5. Jahvid Best RB
6. Dan Williams DT
7. Brian Price DT
8. Jared Odrick DT
9. Dexter McCluster RB/WR/KR/PR
10. Nate Allen FS
11. TJ Ward FS
12. "Mount" Cody
13. The Mile High Messiah Tim Tebow

Thats just to name a few. I know some of them are silly. But I would personally rather have any of them over KJack right now. I know he is still young but :kubepalm:

drs23
01-18-2011, 08:11 PM
...that you're going to have to spend more & overpay for someone else in 2011 anyway!

Someone who can actully do what he's being paid to do? Not so much like Doonta? :kitten:

aussie_texan
01-18-2011, 08:16 PM
Who was out there? Leigh Bodden?? :thinking:

Kicking the tires on a corner ain't going to help the other 3 DB spots. That's why I said in retrospect, I have no problems with Baptizing Jackson by throwing him into the fire. Look, now he's got a full season under his belt. I would rather see us address the Safety position(s).

spot on!!!!

PHAROAH
01-18-2011, 08:26 PM
You guys are basing this off of one game which I think is silly I live in atlanta and I watched a lot of games and before Dunta laid the big hit on that wr he was hurt for sometime throughout the season but he played through it. This guy transformed there secondary into a pretty decent unit that was quite young to be honest a new starting safety in William Moore which was an issue as well so this wasn't all on him but trust me he made a huge deference in their secondary this season.

Carr Bombed
01-18-2011, 08:47 PM
You guys are basing this off of one game which I think is silly I live in atlanta and I watched a lot of games and before Dunta laid the big hit on that wr he was hurt for sometime throughout the season but he played through it. This guy transformed there secondary into a pretty decent unit that was quite young to be honest a new starting safety in William Moore which was an issue as well so this wasn't all on him but trust me he made a huge deference in their secondary this season.


And I'm stationed near there and catch alot of their games. The guy wasn't a difference maker and wasn't remotely worth the money they gave him. He was J.A.G. and nothing more. As far as elevating the secondary...well that's not that hard when you have a secondary as bad as the Falcons had a year ago....still doesn't make Dunta a decent player. He sucked and isn't worth the money he's being paid. He's paid though, and has a high Madden rating, so that's all that matters.

P.S.

The link I posted was started in October...people have been saying that this guy sucks since the season started (mainly because he has and DOES suck), not just after watching him play one game.

Carr Bombed
01-18-2011, 08:49 PM
edit

thunderkyss
01-18-2011, 08:52 PM
They did go after Bodden... but in the end, he really never actually wanted to leave New England. Just using us as leverage. Hell, after pre-season, we all thought the Kareem & Glen combo was an upgrade from last season.

I don't think anyone saw the secondary sucking this much.

There were several people who had a clue. Those that had been pointing to the real problem in the secondary for years. I thought Wilson would play as well as he did in 2009, I was wrong. I thought Barber was coming along nicely as a replacement, I was wrong. I thought Nolan was the real thing, I was wrong.

Our corners suck, but not nearly as bad as our safeties and LBs.... The veterans of our pass defense (or lack thereof)

thunderkyss
01-18-2011, 09:07 PM
Who was out there? Leigh Bodden?? :thinking:

Kicking the tires on a corner ain't going to help the other 3 DB spots. That's why I said in retrospect, I have no problems with Baptizing Jackson by throwing him into the fire. Look, now he's got a full season under his belt. I would rather see us address the Safety position(s).

& I thought you were just a pretty face.

Best post in this whole thread.

JB
01-18-2011, 09:30 PM
See, the problem here is that you don't know if we're "on the right track" when you're in the caboose looking at where we've been. So you've got to get to the front of the train, in the engine, to look ahead! Cuz we're "on the right track". Tooot toooot


We are on the right track! Just no one knows if we are going in the right direction on that track. :choke:

BigBull17
01-19-2011, 07:48 AM
The Falcons have obviously done well in assembling a talented roster, which makes it even more puzzling that they saw $50+ million worth of talent in Dunta.

I was happy to see him go. But I'll never understand why there wasn't a more emphatic effort to replace him. Going to war with such an inferior secondary is unforgivable for a head coach. (Except to Bob McNair.)

I agree with this. We never made an attempt to sign vet leadership at the position.

Well looking at stats , he did better in Houston
More tackles(64-55), couple more pass defended(9-7), one forced fumble.. But he had more ints in Atlanta ( one there to zero here)

Yeah he would have made a difference and be worth all that money :sarcasm:


Http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=5535


ESP being he didn't want to be here anyway

Did he finally have an INT? I thought he was still 0fer. They were gonna have a Dumbta INT watch, like when the panda bears get pregnant.

NitroGSXR
01-19-2011, 08:05 AM
Dunta Robinson is a decent cornerback. Certainly better than anything we have to offer. I hope Atlanta cuts him and we re-sign him.

:banana:

Damned Rick Smith...

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 08:32 AM
I agree with this. We never made an attempt to sign vet leadership at the position.



Again, which corner back was available this offseason that could have provided leadership?

It wasn't Dunta... not with what he did in 2009 on the field & off.

It wasn't Cromartie... the guy's a bum. A playmaker, but a bum.

Bodden? I could buy that. Should have gone all in for Bodden.... make him an offer New England would have been stupid to match..... with our luck, he would have got hurt in the preseason (like he did for the Patriots) & not played a down (like he didn't for the Patriots).

What else were they supposed to do?

BigBull17
01-19-2011, 08:49 AM
Again, which corner back was available this offseason that could have provided leadership?

It wasn't Dunta... not with what he did in 2009 on the field & off.

It wasn't Cromartie... the guy's a bum. A playmaker, but a bum.

Bodden? I could buy that. Should have gone all in for Bodden.... make him an offer New England would have been stupid to match..... with our luck, he would have got hurt in the preseason (like he did for the Patriots) & not played a down (like he didn't for the Patriots).

What else were they supposed to do?

Even an average guy to play nickle and teach the young guys would have helped. Reeves would have helped. Allen came in and KJ got better each week, because he had a guy to help him learn. You don't have to get a stud to mentor young guys.

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 09:13 AM
Even an average guy to play nickle and teach the young guys would have helped. Reeves would have helped. Allen came in and KJ got better each week, because he had a guy to help him learn. You don't have to get a stud to mentor young guys.
I don't know that you can credit Jason Allen with whatever improvement KJac may have made.... his being on the field less may have been the biggest help he got.

With Reeves' twitters and comments, I'm thinking he wasn't all that as a locker room guy.

BigBull17
01-19-2011, 09:17 AM
I don't know that you can credit Jason Allen with whatever improvement KJac may have made.... his being on the field less may have been the biggest help he got.

With Reeves' twitters and comments, I'm thinking he wasn't all that as a locker room guy.

Just seemed like when a guy with some experience came in, the DB's got a little better.

NitroGSXR
01-19-2011, 09:25 AM
I don't know that you can credit Jason Allen with whatever improvement KJac may have made.... his being on the field less may have been the biggest help he got.

With Reeves' twitters and comments, I'm thinking he wasn't all that as a locker room guy.

I really wish Reeves would tell the truth about Rick Smith but he's still trying to get a job in the NFL so... be a while before he does.

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 09:26 AM
Just seemed like when a guy with some experience came in, the DB's got a little better.

Our biggest problem at DB, was our veteran safeties. Quin was solid all year & IMO KJac played as well at the beginning of the season as he did at the end of the season.

Our biggest problem in pass coverage, was the LBs....

And again, Jason Allen's arrival is in direct contrast to your assertation that Rick Smith refused to make any move whatsoever & supports the "there wasn't much out there" argument.

infantrycak
01-19-2011, 10:01 AM
It wasn't Cromartie... the guy's a bum. A playmaker, but a bum.

Cromartie wasn't on the market. The Jets traded a 3rd round pick which will become a 2nd round pick based on his playing time to get the last year of Cromartie's contract.

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 10:16 AM
I really wish Reeves would tell the truth about Rick Smith but he's still trying to get a job in the NFL so... be a while before he does.

As far as I'm concerned, he's either too tight with Bob's money, or he can't sell the Houston Texans.

If it's the money thing, I have to believe Bob is in on it..... but I've seen that man throw money away (David Carr, Dunta Robinson, Al Weaver, Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood....... ) so I don't believe that's the issue.

Then, there are basically three types of FAs.

1) the solid, consistently good player looking for a championship..
we don't have much to offer this guy.

2) the bum who puts up one good season looking for a payday
we don't need this guy & since Rick has been here, we've managed to stay away from them.

3) the guy with something to prove
I think we've done fairly well with these guys... Myers, Walter, Smith, Pollard....

But I believe this team was at a point in the 2009-2010 offseason that if it meant overpaying for a guy like Leigh Bodden, we should have done it.

How much would that have helped though?

Mr teX
01-19-2011, 10:20 AM
:lol: http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3903742-robinson-sucks-in-coverage/


The guy is J.A.G. I realize we sucked in pass coverage this year, but Dunta is not and WAS NEVER the answer for our struggles or our problems.....he sucks. Kudos to him for suckering a team/owner out of that money though. He got paid.


Lol, did you even read the thread before you posted it? From the same thread:
**************************************
1. Robinson has yet to give up a TD.

2. Chris Houston (who he replaced if you forgot) has allowed at least 3 already (that I have seen)

3. Robinson has yet to give up a TD.

4. He is part of the reason our defense is top ten.

5. Not to mention, HE HASN'T ALLOWED A TD YET!
***************************************
You guys have to stop over-analyzing everything he does. There are going to be completed passes to the guy he's covering.

This is another week where we didn't give up a TD to any of their WR's, the longest catch was 19 yards, their leading receiver had 55 yards, and their QB's were 24/38 for 236 yards, 1 TD (to their RB), and 2 INT's.

If any of our DB's were playing bad, we would be giving up TD's. Short patterns have a high completion percentage. We have not given up any deep passes.

You guys act like the man he's covering is blowing it up with TD's and yards. If you think he has "sucked", you guys must not remember what suck really is.

************************************************** ***

Basically alot of the same mis-analysis about cb play that goes on here & every other sports MB in america. LMAO at you pulling a falcons messageboard thread to try & prove your point & it doesn't even do that effectively. Why don't i just go to clutchfans & pull a thread that talks about how talented & good the rockets are? We just KNOW there's no bias & idiotic statements being made over there LOL.

& i never insinuated that he alone was the answer to our secondary woes..we still need athletically competent safeties.

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 10:20 AM
Cromartie wasn't on the market. The Jets traded a 3rd round pick which will become a 2nd round pick based on his playing time to get the last year of Cromartie's contract.

Ok.... I'm getting him mixed up with someone else then.

Was Jammer on the market? Did we talk to him?

Deltha Oneil?

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 10:23 AM
Basically alot of the same mis-analysis about cb play that goes on here & every other sports MB in america. LMAO at you pulling a falcons messageboard thread to try & prove your point & it doesn't even do that effectively. Why don't i just go to clutchfans & pull a thread that talks about how talented & good the rockets are? We just KNOW there's no bias & idiotic statements being made over there LOL.

Dunta still sucked.

Mr teX
01-19-2011, 10:25 AM
Dunta still sucked.

He's deion sanders compared to what we ended up with here...

TheCD
01-19-2011, 10:33 AM
Lol, did you even read the thread before you posted it? From the same thread:
**************************************
1. Robinson has yet to give up a TD.

No sure how old the article is, but I know for a fact Dunta gave up a TD in that playoff loss. I was very amused that he got burned as badly as our guys off of a very short TD throw.

Texan_Bill
01-19-2011, 10:47 AM
He's deion sanders compared to what we ended up with here...

Not really considering our guy was a rookie and Dunta is a 7 year vet. In fact our guy doubled Dunta's interceptions, defended 3 more passes, had 16 more (combined) tackles and all the while having shittier safeties behind him..


NEXT!

Mr teX
01-19-2011, 10:52 AM
No sure how old the article is, but I know for a fact Dunta gave up a TD in that playoff loss. I was very amused that he got burned as badly as our guys off of a very short TD throw.

The thread he put in there was from wk. 5 at which point he hadn't given up a TD.

& yes he did give up a TD in the playoff game against GB to jordy nelson. I watched the game again on NFL replay last night & really it was sort of an adlib play on Nelson's part b/c Nelson attempted to run the slant (which gb likes to do in the red zone), Dunta jumped it & Nelson pushed off & reversed out to the sideline.

Double Barrel
01-19-2011, 11:04 AM
We are on the right track! Just no one knows if we are going in the right direction on that track. :choke:

lol! Or better yet, we're on the right track, but our train is stuck at the station! :D

Mr teX
01-19-2011, 11:21 AM
Not really considering our guy was a rookie and Dunta is a 7 year vet. In fact our guy doubled Dunta's interceptions, defended 3 more passes, had 16 more (combined) tackles and all the while having shittier safeties behind him..


NEXT!


:kubepalm: Dunta has more passes defensed, ints & tackles than Aso. Does that mean he's better than him? I mean really, how many times are we going to prove that these kinds of stats for a db are virtually useless?

When you have those kinds of stats, it usually means that you're really not that good.

BigBull17
01-19-2011, 11:26 AM
He's deion sanders compared to what we ended up with here...

No he's not. He would only slightly have been an upgrade here. He is at his very best an average to below average CB. That's not a 10 million a year CB. We had an awful secondary that wouldn't have been that much better with him here.

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 12:19 PM
lol! Or better yet, we're on the right track, but our train is stuck at the station! :D

Or we're on the right track..... but the road to the Super Bowl is on the left..

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 12:22 PM
:kubepalm: Dunta has more passes defensed, ints & tackles than Aso. Does that mean he's better than him? I mean really, how many times are we going to prove that these kinds of stats for a db are virtually useless?

When you have those kinds of stats, it usually means that you're really not that good.

So then let's watch the game, & make up our own conclussion.

We've watched him play in Houston since 2004...... & we say he sucks.

So sorry you don't agree.

But he sucks.

Ok, he doesn't suck. But he's not a #1 corner. Period....


That's what we mean to say. He wanted to be paid like a #1. Rick Smith was dumb enough to offer it to him one time. Most of us are happy that he got his head out of his butt & let the man walk.

Texan_Bill
01-19-2011, 12:26 PM
So then let's watch the game, & make up our own conclussion.

We've watched him play in Houston since 2004...... & we say he sucks.

So sorry you don't agree.

But he sucks.

Ok, he doesn't suck. But he's not a #1 corner. Period....


That's what we mean to say. He wanted to be paid like a #1. Rick Smith was dumb enough to offer it to him one time. Most of us are happy that he got his head out of his butt & let the man walk.

Petey Faggins thinks he sucks!! J/K

Nickel corner, at best??

Mr teX
01-19-2011, 02:00 PM
So then let's watch the game, & make up our own conclussion.

We've watched him play in Houston since 2004...... & we say he sucks.

So sorry you don't agree.

But he sucks.

Ok, he doesn't suck. But he's not a #1 corner. Period....


That's what we mean to say. He wanted to be paid like a #1. Rick Smith was dumb enough to offer it to him one time. Most of us are happy that he got his head out of his butt & let the man walk.


but..but..all we needed was veteran leadership & KJ would've been fine....we should've kept Jacque Reeves....:wadepalm: yeah, that same Jacque reeves we gave 20 million to as the cowboys laughed at us & who currently can't even make a roster right now.

& if a solid cb like dunta couldn't have made a difference in our secondary, what kind of a difference do you think Aso & Champ would make by themselves if we brought them here? History tells us...not much either, if we come back with the same cast of characters we had this year. We've seen the raiders secondary, they've look like garbage for the last few years with a shut down guy that they broke the bank on.

buddyboy
01-19-2011, 04:53 PM
but..but..all we needed was veteran leadership & KJ would've been fine....we should've kept Jacque Reeves....:wadepalm: yeah, that same Jacque reeves we gave 20 million to as the cowboys laughed at us & who currently can't even make a roster right now.

& if a solid cb like dunta couldn't have made a difference in our secondary, what kind of a difference do you think Aso & Champ would make by themselves if we brought them here? History tells us...not much either, if we come back with the same cast of characters we had this year. We've seen the raiders secondary, they've look like garbage for the last few years with a shut down guy that they broke the bank on.

I think it's pretty obvious that having Dunta this year would have made a difference.

But for the money he wanted? Not even remotely worth it. Plus that guy obviously didn't want to be in Houston, he wanted a check.

thunderkyss
01-19-2011, 06:33 PM
but..but..all we needed was veteran leadership & KJ would've been fine....

I know it's difficult to have a conversation on the internet. But I'm one of the guys who doesn't believe that "veteran leadership" was our biggest deficit. I also don't believe that just any veteran can provide "veteran leadership"

we should've kept Jacque Reeves....:wadepalm: yeah, that same Jacque reeves we gave 20 million to as the cowboys laughed at us & who currently can't even make a roster right now.

I agree with this as well. Reeves couldn't beat McCain out for the nickel job in 2009... he was dead weight, didn't have shit to teach anyone & I think he was a locker room cancer.

& if a solid cb like dunta couldn't have made a difference in our secondary, what kind of a difference do you think Aso & Champ would make by themselves if we brought them here? History tells us...not much either, if we come back with the same cast of characters we had this year. We've seen the raiders secondary, they've look like garbage for the last few years with a shut down guy that they broke the bank on.

Aso/Champ would pretty much shrink the field for us. Allowing us to run more 1 safety formations, & send that extra person to pressure the QB.

Dunta doesn't & has never done that for us. He's not a cover corner.... he's a run support corner. He's like Bernard Pollard with the body of a 15 year old girl.

burro
01-19-2011, 07:08 PM
Considering that it's not my money, I would have had no problem with McNair spending 57$ million to keep Dunta around. After this season, it's hard to say that his departure wasn't a loss. Not to say that Dunta is HOF worthy or anything, but he was certainly miles ahead of anything that we had this year.

Bubbajwp
01-19-2011, 07:51 PM
There is one more thing about Drob. He might be overrated but he has one thing our defense was lacking badly this season and thats fire. That cocky confidence that our defense had towards the end of drobs last season here. That our defense severly lacked this season. I dont remember seeing as many of our LBs pumping up the crowd and crashing helmets.

OzzO
01-19-2011, 08:25 PM
...or patting themselves on the back for a massive hit while the opposing team runs another play.

Bubbajwp
01-19-2011, 08:36 PM
...or patting themselves on the back for a massive hit while the opposing team runs another play.

So true but still.

Carr Bombed
01-19-2011, 08:55 PM
There is one more thing about Drob. He might be overrated but he has one thing our defense was lacking badly this season and thats fire. That cocky confidence that our defense had towards the end of drobs last season here. That our defense severly lacked this season. I dont remember seeing as many of our LBs pumping up the crowd and crashing helmets.

I give Pollard credit for that last season....he brought the swagger. He regressed this season and the entire defense went into the crapper. That and a deflated Cushing. (The other guy who brought alot of swagger last season)

gary
01-19-2011, 09:24 PM
Considering that it's not my money, I would have had no problem with McNair spending 57$ million to keep Dunta around. After this season, it's hard to say that his departure wasn't a loss. Not to say that Dunta is HOF worthy or anything, but he was certainly miles ahead of anything that we had this year.This not my money arguement is weak IMHO. While I'd like to see Bob pay an impact player Dunte is not that payer anymore nor did he want to play here. Why pay him? He is not light years better that's for sure if he is any better at all. But not light years man.

Double Barrel
01-20-2011, 11:01 AM
I give Pollard credit for that last season....he brought the swagger. He regressed this season and the entire defense went into the crapper. That and a deflated Cushing. (The other guy who brought alot of swagger last season)

I think the perception of Pollard's "regression" has more to do with how they utilized him. He wasn't expected to cover as much in 2009 as he was this past season, so they were placing more burden on his weakness instead of playing up his strengths in 2010. I see that as a FO/coaching failure more than an indictment on Pollard.

BigBull17
01-20-2011, 11:57 AM
Considering that it's not my money, I would have had no problem with McNair spending 57$ million to keep Dunta around. After this season, it's hard to say that his departure wasn't a loss. Not to say that Dunta is HOF worthy or anything, but he was certainly miles ahead of anything that we had this year.

Yeah, coming off 7-9, it would have been real fun not being able to go after someone GOOD cause Dumbta was earning 57 million an INT...

burro
01-20-2011, 12:43 PM
Yeah, coming off 7-9, it would have been real fun not being able to go after someone GOOD cause Dumbta was earning 57 million an INT...

Who will we bring in with all the freed up Dunta money? The Texans FO doesn't seem very interested in being aggressive during free agency, which is why we don't often make huge signings. All I was trying to say was that, all things considered, letting Dunta walk didn't pay off as nothing positive came of it on the field. In retrospect I for one would liked to have had him back, along with Reeves. Is that sad to say? A little. I think most fans don't realize the legendary extent to which our defense sucked last year, and mostly because of the secondary. I guess I'm saying that two averaqe corners would have been a BIG improvement over what we saw last season and if Uncle Bob felt the need to spend 57$ million to do that, then so be it. Watching the defense may not have been so god awful.

Mr teX
01-20-2011, 01:11 PM
This not my money arguement is weak IMHO. While I'd like to see Bob pay an impact player Dunte is not that payer anymore nor did he want to play here. Why pay him? He is not light years better that's for sure if he is any better at all. But not light years man.

1st question: How much of an impact should a 57 million dollar make?

2nd question: Keeping the 1st question in mind, what caliber cb was available at the time that could make said 57 million impact?


3rd question: With Aso most likely being a pipe dream, how much do you think its gonna cost to lure bailey here..... keeping in mind that his best days are behind him at 32 & the fact that he's injury prone.

I mean, you guys keep saying Dunta wasn't worth it, & i agree he wasn't worth 57 million, but what & who the hell do you think you're going to get in FA pinching nickels? Again, you're likely going to severely overpay for whomever you bring in so even if that guy is a stud, you're still going to be paying him way more than he's worth.

PHAROAH
01-20-2011, 02:51 PM
And I'm stationed near there and catch alot of their games. The guy wasn't a difference maker and wasn't remotely worth the money they gave him. He was J.A.G. and nothing more. As far as elevating the secondary...well that's not that hard when you have a secondary as bad as the Falcons had a year ago....still doesn't make Dunta a decent player. He sucked and isn't worth the money he's being paid. He's paid though, and has a high Madden rating, so that's all that matters.

P.S.

The link I posted was started in October...people have been saying that this guy sucks since the season started (mainly because he has and DOES suck), not just after watching him play one game.Ok fine that is your opinion i think that you guys will find any reason to keep beating a dead horse in regards to Dunta Robinson and how much money he received and if he wasn't worth it and you guys are glad the Texans didn't re-sign him. Well here is the deal the guy did help upgrade Atlanta's secondary even though you guys hate to admit it that the Texans made a huge mistake by letting him hit the free agent market so at the end of the day the system is what it is and he was the top free agent CB last year and he got paid for being the top option at his position regardless if you felt he deserved that type of payout. The Texans secondary suffered and was the worst in the league and he would have made difference regardless what the haters say.

JB
01-20-2011, 03:14 PM
Ok fine that is your opinion i think that you guys will find any reason to keep beating a dead horse in regards to Dunta Robinson and how much money he received and if he wasn't worth it and you guys are glad the Texans didn't re-sign him. Well here is the deal the guy did help upgrade Atlanta's secondary even though you guys hate to admit it that the Texans made a huge mistake by letting him hit the free agent market so at the end of the day the system is what it is and he was the top free agent CB last year and he got paid for being the top option at his position regardless if you felt he deserved that type of payout. The Texans secondary suffered and was the worst in the league and he would have made difference regardless what the haters say.

ok fine that is your opinion I think you guys will really regret signing that mediocre cb to such a huge contract when the CBA is done. You can say what you want but there is no way that you can find anyone (of respectability) say that DR performs like a top five corner, but he had to be paid like one so the Falcons were just stupid no matter what the blind may say.

Mr teX
01-20-2011, 03:49 PM
ok fine that is your opinion I think you guys will really regret signing that mediocre cb to such a huge contract when the CBA is done. You can say what you want but there is no way that you can find anyone (of respectability) say that DR performs like a top five corner, but he had to be paid lioke one so the Falcons were just stupid no matter what the blind may say.


Yeah, stupid right on to the playoffs too..... while we sit here shopping in the bargain bin to patch up our secondary with guys like Reeves, Allen, Wilson & Pollard....The funny thing is you're saying it would've been cost prohibitive to sign him to that contract b/c of the CBA yet you're probably in the same group getting pissed b/c Mcnair won't get rid of Kubiak in part at least b/c of the uncertainty with the CBA.. :mariopalm:

gary
01-20-2011, 04:24 PM
1st question: How much of an impact should a 57 million dollar make?

2nd question: Keeping the 1st question in mind, what caliber cb was available at the time that could make said 57 million impact?


3rd question: With Aso most likely being a pipe dream, how much do you think its gonna cost to lure bailey here..... keeping in mind that his best days are behind him at 32 & the fact that he's injury prone.

I mean, you guys keep saying Dunta wasn't worth it, & i agree he wasn't worth 57 million, but what & who the hell do you think you're going to get in FA pinching nickels? Again, you're likely going to severely overpay for whomever you bring in so even if that guy is a stud, you're still going to be paying him way more than he's worth.For me it is than just about his play and that whole pay me Rick ordeal was uncalled for. I understand Bailey is not the player he once was but he's still a more proven CB at this time IMHO. You want to know what caliber DB was going to make that said impact probably no one but Dunte had enough here and wanted out. I think it is safe to say the whole D sucked this year though. Add that with an happy sub par to par player at best was not needed IMHO.

Second Honeymoon
01-21-2011, 11:24 AM
So Aaron Rodgers throws for a touchdown and all of a sudden the Texans are validated? You have got to be kidding me. Dunta has done a good job with the Falcons and although he may not be worth the huge contract, he helped them win and put a better product on the field for the Falcon's fans.

Meanwhile, the Texans have corners getting beat by any QB in the league this side of Rusty Smith. even Tebow got some against our pathetic excuse for a defense. A guy gets beat by one of the best QBs in the league and the guy is playing lights out and you want to paint Dunta as crap. That is just sad.

The Texans had a bad secondary in 2009. They let their best corner go to antoher team. How is that good football decisions? How is that even marginally competent management? That is on you, Smithiak.

And instead of doing the prudent thing, and firing Smithiak's pathetic act, they change defensive schemes and coaching setting us back just as miuch if we would have went ahead and made a change at head coach. So in essence, we have all the headaches and turnover of a change at head coach without changing the head coach. who, in FACT, is a losing head coach over a 5 year period and with an abyssmal divisional record to boot.

kjust pathetic and part and parcel of this pathetic excuse for an NFL franchise.

burro
01-21-2011, 12:07 PM
So Aaron Rodgers throws for a touchdown and all of a sudden the Texans are validated? You have got to be kidding me. Dunta has done a good job with the Falcons and although he may not be worth the huge contract, he helped them win and put a better product on the field for the Falcon's fans.

Meanwhile, the Texans have corners getting beat by any QB in the league this side of Rusty Smith. even Tebow got some against our pathetic excuse for a defense. A guy gets beat by one of the best QBs in the league and the guy is playing lights out and you want to paint Dunta as crap. That is just sad.

The Texans had a bad secondary in 2009. They let their best corner go to antoher team. How is that good football decisions? How is that even marginally competent management? That is on you, Smithiak.

And instead of doing the prudent thing, and firing Smithiak's pathetic act, they change defensive schemes and coaching setting us back just as miuch if we would have went ahead and made a change at head coach. So in essence, we have all the headaches and turnover of a change at head coach without changing the head coach. who, in FACT, is a losing head coach over a 5 year period and with an abyssmal divisional record to boot.

kjust pathetic and part and parcel of this pathetic excuse for an NFL franchise.

...in addition to our second best CB (Reeves). :kubepalm:

Why Rick Smith is still here, I haven't the slightest idea.

HoustonFrog
01-21-2011, 12:41 PM
...in addition to our second best CB (Reeves). :kubepalm:

Why Rick Smith is still here, I haven't the slightest idea.

http://twitter.com/#!/LanceZierlein

LanceZierlein Lance Zierlein
Sean Jones: "whoever is picking the personnel for the Texans is doing a piss-poor job. They haven't done a good job at all"

Lucky
01-21-2011, 09:36 PM
Why Rick Smith is still here, I haven't the slightest idea.
How Gary Kubiak doesn't receive his share of culpability for these decisions is what's boggling to me.

PHAROAH
01-22-2011, 09:55 AM
ok fine that is your opinion I think you guys will really regret signing that mediocre cb to such a huge contract when the CBA is done. You can say what you want but there is no way that you can find anyone (of respectability) say that DR performs like a top five corner, but he had to be paid like one so the Falcons were just stupid no matter what the blind may say.First off i'm not a falcons fan i'm a Texans fan that was born & raised in Texas i'm in Atlanta due to my career!!! I was just pointing out the impact that he made on joining the falcons organization and you guys on this board are still crying behind Dunta wanting to get paid by the team that drafted him and now you blame him for getting paid the dollars that the top CB in the free agent market commands by the current CBA unreal!! I don't understand why this is even a subject of discussion when this guy isn't on our roster and we had the worst season that a secondary can have in the history of the league and now it's Dunta Robinson's fault wow. I think that the head coach & GM that you guys support so blindly are at fault for letting him leave and not getting the right players in secondary to help the team win.

It has been 5 years of the same stupid choices and you guys want to blame a player who laid it on the line while playing here and no one can deny that!!! Then tore up his knee worked his ass off to get back the next year and was still the best player in our secondary and we let him walk out the door hmmm I guess that was smart because you guys can't get over the guy saying pay me Rick. I would have said the thing if I had went through that and then the organization try to low ball you on the new contract and the guy leave get his due now you guys are still hating on the guy please get a life!!!

gary
01-22-2011, 10:05 AM
First off i'm not a falcons fan i'm a Texans fan that was born & raised in Texas i'm in Atlanta due to my career!!! I was just pointing out the impact that he made on joining the falcons organization and you guys on this board are still crying behind Dunta wanting to get paid by the team that drafted him and now you blame him for getting paid the dollars that the top CB in the free agent market commands by the current CBA unreal!! I don't understand why this is even a subject of discussion when this guy isn't on our roster and we had the worst season that a secondary can have in the history of the league and now it's Dunta Robinson's fault wow. I think that the head coach & GM that you guys support so blindly are at fault for letting him leave and not getting the right players in secondary to help the team win.

It has been 5 years of the same stupid choices and you guys want to blame a player who laid it on the line while playing here and no one can deny that!!! Then tore up his knee worked his ass off to get back the next year and was still the best player in our secondary and we let him walk out the door hmmm I guess that was smart because you guys can't get over the guy saying pay me Rick. I would have said the thing if I had went through that and then the organization try to low ball you on the new contract and the guy leave get his due now you guys are still hating on the guy please get a life!!!:user:

texanchris
01-22-2011, 10:19 AM
If Dunta was on the Texans right now he woud immediatley be our best cornerback which isnt really saying much. He might of won us a couple of games by just not making stupid mistakes like the rest of our incompentent secondary. He wanted top 5 cornerback money when hes not even one of the top 10 cornerbacks. When we look back now the decision to go young was a disastrous mistake but back then i thought it was a good move to not pay him that big of a paycheck.

Wolf
01-22-2011, 10:28 AM
Pharaoh, did you even follow the situation in houston?

JB
01-22-2011, 10:35 AM
I had to give Pharoah rep for giving me such a nice laugh so early...

Wolf
01-22-2011, 10:43 AM
yeah, i was going to put a timeline of events that happened but I wanted to make sure first LOL

NitroGSXR
01-22-2011, 10:51 AM
I admit... me and my son are biased. We love Dunta. Great guy. Very personable.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/NitroHonda/CageTexansMinicampDuntaAndreDeMe-21.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/NitroHonda/CageTexansMinicampDuntaAndreDeMe-19.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/NitroHonda/3b8fb101.jpg

PHAROAH
01-22-2011, 11:45 AM
Pharaoh, did you even follow the situation in houston?Yes I do know the situation and you don't have to put up a stupid timeline to try to prove me wrong or to go along with your chronies on this topic. The way I look at this situation is i'm tired of watching the Texans loose games like we have been since the franchise began and excuse me if I disagree with you guys who like to disagree just for the sake of not liking outspoken players. The guy was our best CB and we let him walk out the door when we had no better options and all you guys can say he wasn't worth it when other teams did so your point on if he was worth it is just plain stupid IMO when the guy made an impact on a team that went 9-7 in 2009 and missed the playoffs and they vastly improved to 13-3 even though they lost to green bay in the playoffs.

JB
01-22-2011, 12:15 PM
Punctuation is your friend. And I like Dunta also. He just not worth what he wanted for what he brought. I hope he is happy now. And I don't think he would have improved our defense by being here.

Wolf
01-22-2011, 12:37 PM
The Texans were very fair to D-Rob.. esp after the devastating injury he suffered and hadn't been on the field for about a year. no team was going the throw the bank at him until they see him in action.It was bad timing


Before he was franchised, Robinson turned down a multiyear contract that included $23 million guaranteed.

“I want to play football,” Robinson said. “I love Houston. I love running out on the field on Sundays with my teammates. I think this is going to be a great year for us. ... I’d love to finish my career here, but I’m not going to take anything less than what I think I deserve.


(http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6392245.html)
he hasn't even come close to his 2004 season. He wants to be paid like an impact player, well he has to make the impact plays when they present themselves.

my thoughts. Could the Texans have used him? hell yeah, who couldn't that have used? but, the writing was on the wall that D-Rob wanted to leave and it was his right and he was gone. no one can blame him for trying to better himself

I hope I am wrong, but Nate clements II .. weak free agent class and he was the cream of the crop.

burro
01-22-2011, 01:47 PM
How Gary Kubiak doesn't receive his share of culpability for these decisions is what's boggling to me.

On the contrary, I think many throw all the blame at Kubiak (much of which is deserved) without taking too much notice of Rick Smith and his failures. Then again, seeing as how Smith is one of Kubiak's hand picked people...perhaps you're more on the right track than I am. Either way "Smithiak" is a package, they'll probably be jointly terminated should Uncle Bob decide to remove Kubiak sometime in the 2020s.

gary
01-22-2011, 03:09 PM
I don't blame Smith for not resigning Dunte but replacing him seems to have been a mistake on his part and I'll admit that.

gary
01-22-2011, 03:19 PM
Yes I do know the situation and you don't have to put up a stupid timeline to try to prove me wrong or to go along with your chronies on this topic. The way I look at this situation is i'm tired of watching the Texans loose games like we have been since the franchise began and excuse me if I disagree with you guys who like to disagree just for the sake of not liking outspoken players. The guy was our best CB and we let him walk out the door when we had no better options and all you guys can say he wasn't worth it when other teams did so your point on if he was worth it is just plain stupid IMO when the guy made an impact on a team that went 9-7 in 2009 and missed the playoffs and they vastly improved to 13-3 even though they lost to green bay in the playoffs.Did that have anything to do with Matt Ryan and some of their other young talent coming of age?

Mr teX
01-22-2011, 03:23 PM
I don't blame Smith for not resigning Dunte but replacing him seems to have been a mistake on his part and I'll admit that.

again, replace him with who ? who was available that would've made an impact? this is what you guys dont seem to grasp.

gary
01-22-2011, 03:39 PM
again, replace him with who ? who was available that would've made an impact? this is what you guys dont seem to grasp.Are you saying that there wasn't any vet out there so they would not have to have a first rookie staring at number one corner? They also needed safety help and got that a little bit after signing Jason Allen.

JB
01-22-2011, 03:45 PM
Are you saying that there wasn't any vet out there so they would not have to have a first rookie staring at number one corner? They also needed safety help and got that a little bit after signing Jason Allen.

Other than Bodden, what CB was on the market Gary?

Lucky
01-22-2011, 03:53 PM
Other than Bodden, what CB was on the market Gary?
Cromartie was available via trade. The Jets gave up this years 2nd round pick. Josh Wilson (the CB who beat the Texans in OT) was picked up by the Ravens prior to the start of the season for a 5th round pick.

gary
01-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Other than Bodden, what CB was on the market Gary?No one got cut after traing camp that was better than Jackson? I seem to remember the Ravens signing a CB after final roster cuts because they were thin there.

gary
01-22-2011, 04:21 PM
Roll and Sharper are just two of the FS who were free agents. Look, you make the choice to cut your vet CB it is up to you to go out and sign another vet who might not be great but a lot better than starting a rookie as your CB. Am I wrong? That's all I am saying.

Mr teX
01-22-2011, 05:18 PM
Cromartie was available via trade. The Jets gave up this years 2nd round pick. Josh Wilson (the CB who beat the Texans in OT) was picked up by the Ravens prior to the start of the season for a 5th round pick.

& Josh Wilson was also eaten alive by the texans & was only vindicated b/c he made an easy interception on the last play of that baltimore game. and are you seriously saying that you would've been okay with Smithiak & co. handing over our 2nd rounder over to SD for Cromartie? That's worse than overpaying for Dunta imo. Furthermore, Cromartie & Dunta are pretty much the same guy. Cromartie had 1 unbelievable season that he hasn't been able to live up to. In addition to that, he's also afraid to hit guys & he's a little bit of a turd off the field.

Mr teX
01-22-2011, 05:34 PM
Roll and Sharper are just two of the FS who were free agents. Look, you make the choice to cut your vet CB it is up to you to go out and sign another vet who might not be great but a lot better than starting a rookie as your CB. Am I wrong? That's all I am saying.

The point is there was noone of note out there that was going to provide anything remotely close to the impact you guys are speaking of...Dunta was the top guy at his position in FA for a reason & he's not remotely as bad of a cb as you guys claim he is.

gary
01-22-2011, 05:49 PM
The point is there was noone of note out there that was going to provide anything remotely close to the impact you guys are speaking of...Dunta was the top guy at his position in FA for a reason & he's not remotely as bad of a cb as you guys claim he is.Even if that was so, let's say the Texans franchised him again without signing him long term he would have just been unhappy in the lockeroom. Plus with the way the entire D sucked this year keeping him would not have made a huge differenc.

Mr teX
01-23-2011, 10:31 AM
Even if that was so, let's say the Texans franchised him again without signing him long term he would have just been unhappy in the lockeroom. Plus with the way the entire D sucked this year keeping him would not have made a huge differenc.

Complete speculation on your part gary. I don't recall any player in the texans locker room coming out & saying that Dunta or his contract situation was a distraction and/or he was a malcontent. No player likes to be franchised but that doesn't mean he was likely to go TO on the locker room. In fact, all i ever heard from dunta was that he wanted to be here. & Again, If Dunta wouldn't have made a difference in our secondary this year, then bringing in bailey isn't likely going to do much either.

JB
01-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Complete speculation on your part gary. I don't recall any player in the texans locker room coming out & saying that Dunta or his contract situation was a distraction and/or he was a malcontent. No player likes to be franchised but that doesn't mean he was likely to go TO on the locker room. In fact, all i ever heard from dunta was that he wanted to be here. & Again, If Dunta wouldn't have made a difference in our secondary this year, then bringing in bailey isn't likely going to do much either.

Wait! You're comparing Dunta & Bailey? :lol:

gary
01-23-2011, 11:54 AM
Champ is much better than Dunte. If he wanted to be here he would have and there are very few players in sports who don't choose money over team.

Lucky
01-23-2011, 01:03 PM
& Josh Wilson was also eaten alive by the texans & was only vindicated b/c he made an easy interception on the last play of that baltimore game.
All he did was make the game winning play. For his team. Unlike the corners the Texans currently employ.

...and are you seriously saying that you would've been okay with Smithiak & co. handing over our 2nd rounder over to SD for Cromartie?...In addition to that, he's also afraid to hit guys & he's a little bit of a turd off the field.
In addition to that, he's playing in the AFC Championship game today.

Yes, I would have traded a 2011 2nd round pick for Cromartie. Then, I would not have had to reach in the 2010 1st round for Kareem "Falls Down" Jackson. A win-win scenario if I ever saw one.

Mr teX
01-23-2011, 02:51 PM
All he did was make the game winning play. For his team. Unlike the corners the Texans currently employ.


In addition to that, he's playing in the AFC Championship game today.

Yes, I would have traded a 2011 2nd round pick for Cromartie. Then, I would not have had to reach in the 2010 1st round for Kareem "Falls Down" Jackson. A win-win scenario if I ever saw one.

1 play dude, that fell into his lap at that...That hardly makes him special. what was he doing as we were making our comeback to send it to OT? & the jets made it to the championship game without cromartie last year. He's been nothing special; not nearly worth what the jets gave up for him especially when you consider that they went cb in round 1 anyway. He might very well be on the market next year.

Mr teX
01-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Champ is much better than Dunte. If he wanted to be here he would have and there are very few players in sports who don't choose money over team.

Denver's defensive ranking against the pass disagrees with you..

CretorFrigg
01-23-2011, 03:36 PM
Denver's defensive ranking against the pass disagrees with you..

One player does not complete the whole defense.

Mr teX
01-23-2011, 03:55 PM
One player does not complete the whole defense.

Exactly, but according to some in here, he'd make that much of an impact that he'd be worth dropping 57 million on. I'm merely debunking that by showing what denver's pass defense was ranked with him right now. He's good, but he's on the very backside of his prime at age 32, he's injury prone & he's no longer that elite guy we think he is. & with all of this against him, he likely won't be worth whatever he winds up getting in FA.

thunderkyss
01-23-2011, 04:09 PM
The Texans had a bad secondary in 2009. They let their best corner go to antoher team. How is that good football decisions? How is that even marginally competent management? That is on you, Smithiak.


This post is a perfect example of my observation that as fans, we can pick & choose which decisions we "would have" made & forget the ones that weren't very good ideas.

"We should have kept Dunta...... " the assumption is that this would have improved our defense, because Dunta was "our best corner."

As if our secondary was good in any other year Dunta was the senior Corner.

The truth is that our pass defense has never been good. With or without Dunta Robinson. We have never been dead last, I don't believe, though I am reminded of the first 4 games of the 2006 season, when we gave up 300 yards in every game..... Dunta was a part of that. I'm also reminded of Alex Smith's first TD pass in the NFL.... Dunta was on the field when that happened, & every other game in which we allow rookie QBs, or QBs that just aren't any good to look like Pro Bowlers. Dunta was around for much of that.

I also,for the life of me, can't remember Dunta Robinson being a game changer. So, even though our defense may have performed better, giving up less than 30 points a game, or actually winning more games is not really a logical result of paying Dunta millions of dollars for "avg (if you want to believe he's that good)" CB play.

But we'll never know, so "said" fans can continue on this type of tirade garnering support for an ill conceived conclusion.

thunderkyss
01-23-2011, 04:15 PM
And instead of doing the prudent thing, and firing Smithiak's pathetic act, they change defensive schemes and coaching setting us back just as miuch if we would have went ahead and made a change at head coach. So in essence, we have all the headaches and turnover of a change at head coach without changing the head coach. who, in FACT, is a losing head coach over a 5 year period and with an abyssmal divisional record to boot.


Same post, here, the idea is that firing the DC, going to a new system will set us back as much as if we fired the HC, implementing new systems on both sides of the ball.

I don't know where Second Honeymoon's is on this, but McNair was recently lambasted for publicly stating changing the HC would be too traumatic for where this team is right now. The popular opinion, is that a new coach could walk into Houston & the Texans would be winners instantly.

Now..... changing the DC is setting us back.

thunderkyss
01-23-2011, 04:27 PM
Punctuation is your friend. And I like Dunta also. He just not worth what he wanted for what he brought. I hope he is happy now. And I don't think he would have improved our defense by being here.

Take the money out of it... have we never seen Dunta fall down? I have, several times.

Have we never seen Dunta wave his hands & wonder where the fuch the safety is? I have, several times.

Would this team have been better with Dunta? I don't believe so, not in the least bit.

When we signed Reeves, Reeves played better than Dunta. Bennett was better than Dunta his rookie year. Quin is better than Dunta.

For years, we looked at Dunta's tackles to point to how "good" he is. Using those same stats, KJac had a better year than Dunta, but since that doesn't fit some peoples opinion, those stats are now meainingless.

Dunta sucks. period.

Mr teX
01-23-2011, 04:34 PM
This post is a perfect example of my observation that as fans, we can pick & choose which decisions we "would have" made & forget the ones that weren't very good ideas.

"We should have kept Dunta...... " the assumption is that this would have improved our defense, because Dunta was "our best corner."

As if our secondary was good in any other year Dunta was the senior Corner.

The truth is that our pass defense has never been good. With or without Dunta Robinson. We have never been dead last, I don't believe, though I am reminded of the first 4 games of the 2006 season, when we gave up 300 yards in every game..... Dunta was a part of that. I'm also reminded of Alex Smith's first TD pass in the NFL.... Dunta was on the field when that happened, & every other game in which we allow rookie QBs, or QBs that just aren't any good to look like Pro Bowlers. Dunta was around for much of that.

I also,for the life of me, can't remember Dunta Robinson being a game changer. So, even though our defense may have performed better, giving up less than 30 points a game, or actually winning more games is not really a logical result of paying Dunta millions of dollars for "avg (if you want to believe he's that good)" CB play.

But we'll never know, so "said" fans can continue on this type of tirade garnering support for an ill conceived conclusion.

Talk about ill concieved conclusions...

i'll never understand how some fans count Bob Mcnair's money like its their own. who really cares that dunta isn't worth 57 million? I wasn't gonna get any of the money that McNair saved by not giving him the contract he wanted. Furthermore, If mcnair ultimately felt that he wanted to keep Dunta at that price for avg. cb play all it would've meant was that we would've been better this year in the secondary as we weren
t even avg back there.

& If you felt that way about overpaying him, then what the texans have been doing for the most part in FA should sit well with you b/c overpaying is the name of the game. It just boggles my mind how some in here use that as the crux for a "right" decision but in the same breath advocate paying at least that or more for a player that is either comparable or on the backside of their career.

Mr teX
01-23-2011, 04:36 PM
Take the money out of it... have we never seen Dunta fall down? I have, several times.

Have we never seen Dunta wave his hands & wonder where the fuch the safety is? I have, several times.

Would this team have been better with Dunta? I don't believe so, not in the least bit.

When we signed Reeves, Reeves played better than Dunta. Bennett was better than Dunta his rookie year. Quin is better than Dunta.

For years, we looked at Dunta's tackles to point to how "good" he is. Using those same stats, KJac had a better year than Dunta, but since that doesn't fit some peoples opinion, those stats are now meainingless.

Dunta sucks. period.

now you're just flat out wrong...Reeves better? really? The same guy who can't get a job right now? Lol

thunderkyss
01-23-2011, 04:41 PM
Yes, I would have traded a 2011 2nd round pick for Cromartie. Then, I would not have had to reach in the 2010 1st round for Kareem "Falls Down" Jackson. A win-win scenario if I ever saw one.

I don't know that they "had to" reach..... Kyle Wilson & 2010 probowler Devin McCourty were there for the taking.

gary
01-23-2011, 06:15 PM
This all for not untill a leader turns the D around. They all stink right now.

steelbtexan
01-23-2011, 08:40 PM
So Aaron Rodgers throws for a touchdown and all of a sudden the Texans are validated? You have got to be kidding me. Dunta has done a good job with the Falcons and although he may not be worth the huge contract, he helped them win and put a better product on the field for the Falcon's fans.

Meanwhile, the Texans have corners getting beat by any QB in the league this side of Rusty Smith. even Tebow got some against our pathetic excuse for a defense. A guy gets beat by one of the best QBs in the league and the guy is playing lights out and you want to paint Dunta as crap. That is just sad.

The Texans had a bad secondary in 2009. They let their best corner go to antoher team. How is that good football decisions? How is that even marginally competent management? That is on you, Smithiak.

And instead of doing the prudent thing, and firing Smithiak's pathetic act, they change defensive schemes and coaching setting us back just as miuch if we would have went ahead and made a change at head coach. So in essence, we have all the headaches and turnover of a change at head coach without changing the head coach. who, in FACT, is a losing head coach over a 5 year period and with an abyssmal divisional record to boot.

kjust pathetic and part and parcel of this pathetic excuse for an NFL franchise.

Well, this is the Texans organization we're talking about.

NitroGSXR
01-23-2011, 09:25 PM
Talk about ill concieved conclusions...

i'll never understand how some fans count Bob Mcnair's money like its their own. who really cares that dunta isn't worth 57 million? I wasn't gonna get any of the money that McNair saved by not giving him the contract he wanted. Furthermore, If mcnair ultimately felt that he wanted to keep Dunta at that price for avg. cb play all it would've meant was that we would've been better this year in the secondary as we weren
t even avg back there.

& If you felt that way about overpaying him, then what the texans have been doing for the most part in FA should sit well with you b/c overpaying is the name of the game. It just boggles my mind how some in here use that as the crux for a "right" decision but in the same breath advocate paying at least that or more for a player that is either comparable or on the backside of their career.
I did not want to sign Dunta to a long-term contract but I sure wanted us to franchise him once again. That would have definitely not affected us financially in the future.

Second Honeymoon
01-24-2011, 01:36 PM
Same post, here, the idea is that firing the DC, going to a new system will set us back as much as if we fired the HC, implementing new systems on both sides of the ball.

I don't know where Second Honeymoon's is on this, but McNair was recently lambasted for publicly stating changing the HC would be too traumatic for where this team is right now. The popular opinion, is that a new coach could walk into Houston & the Texans would be winners instantly.

Now..... changing the DC is setting us back.

I think I have been pretty consistent re: Kubiak. He should be fired.

As for setting us back, my point was that one of the arguments to not change HC was that it would be starting over and set us back especially with rumored Cowher interest and people saying he would have to nuke the defensive roster due to assumed change to 3-4 under Cowher.

I just feel that bringing in Wade, who is a good DC, presents us with new challenges without fixing the real problem, Kubiak. As a matter of fact, Wade's awwshucks blahblah demeanor only reinforces Kubiak's blahblah demeanor.

This team needs a kick in the pants and neither guy is equipped to do so.

The Texans are the literal Tin Man without a heart and the ownership is too naive to realize this. To him, this regime has us on the right track.

Yeah, right Bob. Whatever you say....

TheCD
01-24-2011, 01:47 PM
I think I have been pretty consistent re: Kubiak. He should be fired.

As for setting us back, my point was that one of the arguments to not change HC was that it would be starting over and set us back especially with rumored Cowher interest and people saying he would have to nuke the defensive roster due to assumed change to 3-4 under Cowher.

I just feel that bringing in Wade, who is a good DC, presents us with new challenges without fixing the real problem, Kubiak. As a matter of fact, Wade's awwshucks blahblah demeanor only reinforces Kubiak's blahblah demeanor.

This team needs a kick in the pants and neither guy is equipped to do so.

The Texans are the literal Tin Man without a heart and the ownership is too naive to realize this. To him, this regime has us on the right track.

Yeah, right Bob. Whatever you say....


Maybe McNair is actually smarter than we thought? Cowher wasn't hired, which means unless Kubiak lives up to expectations (and by our standards I would say a deep playoff run, not just one-and-done) he could get axed. Wade is a good 3-4 coach so that would make a transition pretty easy with him identifying talent.

Keep the coaching stable during uncertain year. Fire them afterwards and bring in Cowher after 1 year of a transitional defense. Maybe Phillips stays on a coordinator.

Nah. McNair ain't that smart...

steelbtexan
01-24-2011, 01:55 PM
Maybe McNair is actually smarter than we thought? Cowher wasn't hired, which means unless Kubiak lives up to expectations (and by our standards I would say a deep playoff run, not just one-and-done) he could get axed. Wade is a good 3-4 coach so that would make a transition pretty easy with him identifying talent.

Keep the coaching stable during uncertain year. Fire them afterwards and bring in Cowher after 1 year of a transitional defense. Maybe Phillips stays on a coordinator.

Nah. McNair ain't that smart...

This is the same crap people were saying after the Kubiaks extension

There's only 3 reasons that Rick and Gary are still here

1. BoB was unwilling to admit that the contract extention was a mistake.

2. BoB didn't want to pay for said mistake.

3. BoB's delusional and actually thinks Gary is the guy to lead this team to a SB.

TheCD
01-24-2011, 02:08 PM
This is the same crap people were saying after the Kubiaks extension

There's only 3 reasons that Rick and Gary are still here

1. BoB was unwilling to admit that the contract extention was a mistake.

2. BoB didn't want to pay for said mistake.

3. BoB's delusional and actually thinks Gary is the guy to lead this team to a SB.

Not sure if you caught it, my post wasn't serious by any means...I was playing the sarcasm card.

Dash
01-24-2011, 02:14 PM
Dunta was clearly not worth the money but he still could be the Texans' best CB and potentially could have helped us win one or two more games. I'm not mad we didn't bring him back though.

TheCD
01-24-2011, 02:21 PM
Dunta was clearly not worth the money but he still could be the Texans' best CB and potentially could have helped us win one or two more games. I'm not mad we didn't bring him back though.

I think a proper plan of succession would have negated this whole topic. However, I'm hoping that Kubiak and Smith just didn't see anything out there last year and didn't want to overpay for a player who wasn't worth it.

With the crop of DBs that are FAs this year, not being aggressive is going to kick their butts. As everyone else is, I'm hoping for Nnamdi or Champ, but I do like what I have seen out of Ike Taylor this postseason if the Steelers let him go.

RagingBull
01-24-2011, 03:55 PM
Dunta got paid 57 million over 6 years (9.5 Million per year)

Revis makes 46 million over 4 years (11.5 Million per year)

If we sign Nmandi for ~60 million for 5 years (12 Million per year), don't you think that would be a much better use of 60 million bucks? Even if we only sign him for 4 years/60M (15M per year) it would be a much better use of that much money. Maybe Smithiak knew that there would be several good corners this year that are worth a lot more than Dunta and were planning on paying one of them? We will have to wait and see.

Second Honeymoon
01-24-2011, 05:15 PM
Dunta got paid 57 million over 6 years (9.5 Million per year)

Revis makes 46 million over 4 years (11.5 Million per year)

If we sign Nmandi for ~60 million for 5 years (12 Million per year), don't you think that would be a much better use of 60 million bucks? Even if we only sign him for 4 years/60M (15M per year) it would be a much better use of that much money. Maybe Smithiak knew that there would be several good corners this year that are worth a lot more than Dunta and were planning on paying one of them? We will have to wait and see.

Call me when we have Nmandi signed. Until then, I will sit here waiting for hell to freeze over.

if Bob pays Nmandi the money, then he will have put his money where his mouth is....but we all know that aint gonna happen. Bob already knows we are on the right track and that we only needed to make a few additions to the team and we will back to being a 9-7 and all the homers around here can throw another parade and Bob can extend Gary for another decade.

bottom line is that barring a 2-14 type season, Gary will be back in 2012. after all, they already have excuses built in ready to go...per usual.

my money on the excuse du jour will be 'we made a move to a 3-4 and it takes a year or two to get that in place, and Gary is really nice and did you hear that he is from Houston and went to A&M'

whoopty freaking doo...The Texans are a joke and no amount of excuse farming can change those facts.

FACT. Gary is a losing head coach. FACT. Rick Smith has failed to find quality defensive talent to help turn things around. FACT. Bob McNair thinks the Texans are on the right track even though last time I checked 6 wins is just about what we had 5 years ago with Kubiak's first year...and with Carr at QB to boot.....but yeah, we are on the right track.

This fanbase and its commitment to mediocrity and its penchant for championing blatant losers like Carr and Kubiak when the inconvenient truth is staring him in the face is really sickening and pathetic...is it just this city that builds statues to choke artists like Bagwell and just looks for excuse after excuse on why their teams suck?....but at least we have tailgating, which is about all this franchise good for.

Why not build a statue outside of Reliant for 9-7. After all, that is the highwater mark of Texans football.

FIRE BOB, GARY, RICK, and all the other losers responsible for this
GO TEXANS IN 2020

Mr teX
01-24-2011, 08:15 PM
Call me when we have Nmandi signed. Until then, I will sit here waiting for hell to freeze over.

if Bob pays Nmandi the money, then he will have put his money where his mouth is....but we all know that aint gonna happen. Bob already knows we are on the right track and that we only needed to make a few additions to the team and we will back to being a 9-7 and all the homers around here can throw another parade and Bob can extend Gary for another decade.

bottom line is that barring a 2-14 type season, Gary will be back in 2012. after all, they already have excuses built in ready to go...per usual.

my money on the excuse du jour will be 'we made a move to a 3-4 and it takes a year or two to get that in place, and Gary is really nice and did you hear that he is from Houston and went to A&M'

whoopty freaking doo...The Texans are a joke and no amount of excuse farming can change those facts.

FACT. Gary is a losing head coach. FACT. Rick Smith has failed to find quality defensive talent to help turn things around. FACT. Bob McNair thinks the Texans are on the right track even though last time I checked 6 wins is just about what we had 5 years ago with Kubiak's first year...and with Carr at QB to boot.....but yeah, we are on the right track.

This fanbase and its commitment to mediocrity and its penchant for championing blatant losers like Carr and Kubiak when the inconvenient truth is staring him in the face is really sickening and pathetic...is it just this city that builds statues to choke artists like Bagwell and just looks for excuse after excuse on why their teams suck?....but at least we have tailgating, which is about all this franchise good for.

Why not build a statue outside of Reliant for 9-7. After all, that is the highwater mark of Texans football.

FIRE BOB, GARY, RICK, and all the other losers responsible for this
GO TEXANS IN 2020

Jesus H. Christ..I gotta hand it to you, You really know how to take something & run with it....

RagingBull
01-24-2011, 11:57 PM
Jesus H. Christ..I gotta hand it to you, You really know how to take something & run with it....

Always been curious what the "H." stood for...

burro
01-25-2011, 01:01 AM
Always been curious what the "H." stood for...

I think it has something to do with the Christogram.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christogram

HOU-TEX
01-25-2011, 10:12 AM
Jesus H. Christ..I gotta hand it to you, You really know how to take something & run with it....

Trust me when I say, it's just begun. He'll be running with it all off-season up until week 1. He basically copy and pastes the same post.

houstonspartan
01-25-2011, 10:22 AM
Trust me when I say, it's just begun. He'll be running with it all off-season up until week 1. He basically copy and pastes the same post.

At least he's CONSISTENT with his feelings, and doesn't hem and haw like a lot of other drones on this board. And, at least he feels strongly and passioantely about something and he doesn't mind saying it.

I respect that.

HOU-TEX
01-25-2011, 10:24 AM
At least he's CONSISTENT with his feelings, and doesn't hem and haw like a lot of other drones on this board. And, at least he feels strongly and passioantely about something and he doesn't mind saying it.

I respect that.

I thought this too....after the first 2 years.

NitroGSXR
01-25-2011, 10:33 AM
Trust me when I say, it's just begun. He'll be running with it all off-season up until week 1. He basically copy and pastes the same post.
It's a great post. I'd run with it everytime too.

HOU-TEX
01-25-2011, 11:06 AM
It's a great post. I'd run with it everytime too.

Go for it. :kitten:

houstonspartan
01-25-2011, 12:01 PM
I thought this too....after the first 2 years.

Well may when, and if, this team proves him wrong, he will change his tune. But, so far, his complaints have merit - still.

Dutchrudder
01-25-2011, 12:05 PM
Jesus H. Christ..I gotta hand it to you, You really know how to take something & run with it....

nvm

Blake
01-25-2011, 12:18 PM
Hey guys, bottom line is that our secondary was understaffed in the veteran and leadership department leading to our 6-10 year. You dont want Dunta? Fine. Get someone else who can give our defense what it needs. Dont just ignore the problem and hope nobody notices.

And as far as Kubiak goes, McNair will fire him next year. Always a year too late. See David Carr.

Mr teX
01-25-2011, 12:34 PM
Well may when, and if, this team proves him wrong, he will change his tune. But, so far, his complaints have merit - still.

He post like a shotgun. No need to really aim, all you have to do is turn in the targets direction & get close enough & you'll hit some part of it. He'll drop 1 long post with like 3-4 different angles where most of what he's saying is either off base or terribly over-simplified but there will be 1 piece of it where he's actually right...all just so he can say "i told you so..".

drs23
01-25-2011, 01:41 PM
Always been curious what the "H." stood for...

I thought it stood for Harold. Like in "Harold" be thy name. :D

RagingBull
01-25-2011, 02:39 PM
Through the retrospectoscope, the correct move would have been to franchise Dumta again and then go all in this year on one of the GOOD corners like Baily or Nmandi.

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 02:48 PM
Not sure if you caught it, my post wasn't serious by any means...I was playing the sarcasm card.

Whoops didn't read thru the entire post

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 03:05 PM
He post like a shotgun. No need to really aim, all you have to do is turn in the targets direction & get close enough & you'll hit some part of it. He'll drop 1 long post with like 3-4 different angles where most of what he's saying is either off base or terribly over-simplified but there will be 1 piece of it where he's actually right...all just so he can say "i told you so..".

Tell me what wasn't factual about his post. Just because you dont like to read it doesn't make it not true.

6-10,9-7 and people on this MB being satisfied is what it is.

Meanwhile teams that spend the $$$$ are making long runs in the playoffs.

Jets too many FA,trades that cost $$$$ to count,

Bears sign Peppers and trade for Cutler and can you say NFC championship game.

Packers sign Woodson in FA. Wouldn't he look good in a Txans uni? Made SB.

Steelers are the only team that isn't built this way. But they are agressive in the draft. Traded up to get Polomalu. Signed Farrior in FA. These moves made them a SB participant. But we wont ever confuse BoB/Gary/Rick with Rooney/Colbert/Tomlin.

Are you Jamey Rootes or BoB McNair? Maybe Smith or Kubiak? That's the only way you can justify this koolaid being so mmm -mmm good.

drs23
01-25-2011, 04:29 PM
Tell me what wasn't factual about his post. Just because you dont like to read it doesn't make it not true.

6-10,9-7 and people on this MB being satisfied is what it is.

Meanwhile teams that spend the $$$$ are making long runs in the playoffs.

Jets too many FA,trades that cost $$$$ to count,

Bears sign Peppers and trade for Cutler and can you say NFC championship game.

Packers sign Woodson in FA. Wouldn't he look good in a Txans uni? Made SB.

Steelers are the only team that isn't built this way. But they are agressive in the draft. Traded up to get Polomalu. Signed Farrior in FA. These moves made them a SB participant. But we wont ever confuse BoB/Gary/Rick with Rooney/Colbert/Tomlin.

Are you Jamey Rootes or BoB McNair? Maybe Smith or Kubiak? That's the only way you can justify this koolaid being so mmm -mmm good.

steelb,

Not arguing here, I tend to agree. My question is the cost of being aggressive in the FA market and what the ramifications would be, say chasing an Aso or Bailey? Hoping against Bailey. I think he's too close to the end but you get my point.

Was listining to the commentators on the Jets specifically yesterday commenting on the Jets not being able to retain thier roster next year or the year after (whenever play resumes) because of the cap that will be in place. They mentioned several players but the main ones I recall are Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes.

I'm ignorent here as I don't know exactly how the cap works. If a team goes over, do they get fined? Have to restructure contracts (I've heard of that)? What happens?

houstonspartan
01-25-2011, 05:17 PM
steelb,

Not arguing here, I tend to agree. My question is the cost of being aggressive in the FA market and what the ramifications would be, say chasing an Aso or Bailey? Hoping against Bailey. I think he's too close to the end but you get my point.

Was listining to the commentators on the Jets specifically yesterday commenting on the Jets not being able to retain thier roster next year or the year after (whenever play resumes) because of the cap that will be in place. They mentioned several players but the main ones I recall are Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes.

I'm ignorent here as I don't know exactly how the cap works. If a team goes over, do they get fined? Have to restructure contracts (I've heard of that)? What happens?

Regardless, the Jets have a coach players want to play for. Even if they can't keep a few of their players, some other FA's will take less money just to play for Rex Ryan and have a strong shot at success.

Mr teX
01-25-2011, 05:20 PM
Tell me what wasn't factual about his post. Just because you dont like to read it doesn't make it not true.

& just b/c you eat it up doesn't make it gospel either.

6-10,9-7 and people on this MB being satisfied is what it is.

Nobody's satisfied...

Meanwhile teams that spend the $$$$ are making long runs in the playoffs.

tell that to the redskins & raiders. 2 teams who've poored ridiculous amounts of money into FA only to still suck.

Jets too many FA,trades that cost $$$$ to count,

& yet they were beaten in the playoffs in the exact same spot they were last year without those big name FA you swear were key to their success this year.. LT, JT, Holmes & Cromartie.

Bears sign Peppers and trade for Cutler and can you say NFC championship game.

They got cutler the year before & were garbage..surely you aren't saying that they made it to the NFC championship game stictly b/c of peppers are you?

Packers sign Woodson in FA. Wouldn't he look good in a Txans uni? Made SB.

How many years ago did they sign Woodson again? Better yet, tell me how many of their key contributors were drafted vs. big time FA. & they just made it back to the SB after a drought that lasted a decade..

Steelers are the only team that isn't built this way. But they are agressive in the draft. Traded up to get Polomalu. Signed Farrior in FA. These moves made them a SB participant. But we wont ever confuse BoB/Gary/Rick with Rooney/Colbert/Tomlin.

& the patriots, & the colts...you know the other 2 most winning organizations of the last decade..

Are you Jamey Rootes or BoB McNair? Maybe Smith or Kubiak? That's the only way you can justify this koolaid being so mmm -mmm good.



As for your last statement....:facepalm:. Obviously, we won't ever confuse you for anyone who knows what the hell they're talking about either.

infantrycak
01-25-2011, 05:27 PM
Meanwhile teams that spend the $$$$ are making long runs in the playoffs.

Yeah and teams that spend the $$$$ are also not in the playoffs - like the Texans who are in the top of the league in spending. Say they don't spend money wisely, fine, but saying they don't spend money is incorrect.

I'm ignorent here as I don't know exactly how the cap works. If a team goes over, do they get fined? Have to restructure contracts (I've heard of that)? What happens?

It is a hard cap. There is no mechanism for going over it. If a team won't cut to get under the cap, the NFL will do it for them.

Holmes and Edwards are both free agents this off-season.

Regardless, the Jets have a coach players want to play for. Even if they can't keep a few of their players, some other FA's will take less money just to play for Rex Ryan and have a strong shot at success.

Got more than one or two examples (where the numbers are actually known) for players taking jobs for less money?

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 05:34 PM
As for your last statement....:facepalm:. Obviously, we won't ever confuse you for anyone who knows what the hell they're talking about either.

Facts are facts

Loser mentality

Keep on drinking koolaid

I'm going to have to start drinking shots for the next 2 yrs.

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 05:40 PM
Cak

Where have they wasted their $$$$ to have such a overall talent deficient team? What would you have done differently.

I'm not asking this sarcastically either. Seems that they've wasted alot of talent (AJ) and gotten nothing to show for it.

For this reason alone Smith Kubiak and all of the scouts/cap guys should be fired. Not extended

Mr teX
01-25-2011, 05:44 PM
Facts are facts

Loser mentality

Keep on drinking koolaid

I'm going to have to start drinking shots for the next 2 yrs.


Cak & I basically crapped on your whole post with "the" fact that blows up your whole theory & this is what you come back with?


lol, ok "winner"..:rolleyes:...

infantrycak
01-25-2011, 05:57 PM
Cak

Where have they wasted their $$$$ to have such a overall talent deficient team? What would you have done differently.

I addressed a singular assertion - that they don't spend money. They do. Under Capers/Casserly there was tons of wasted money in Walker, Wade, Robaire Smith, DD, HWWNBN, Weaver, Greenwood. Under Kubiak/Smith they have done better in not having huge total loser contracts like those but have spent a bunch on signing folks like Schaub, AJ, DeMeco, Antonio Smith. They didn't get their return out of Andre Davis, Reeves, Orlovsky, Green, etc. Anyway, the particulars aren't that important. The point is the Texans are at the top of the league in spending money. That isn't the problem. Spending wisely is the problem.

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 06:09 PM
1. Great job of avoiding the ? Lets see you refute his points and yes I understand SH sometimes goes over the top. I'm looking forward to your reply. (Wont get one that makes sense)

2. You seem satisfied, But if your not then what would you do differently? Because obviously what they've been doing for the last decade hasn't worked. Trends, love to hear your ideas.

3. Using to inept teams to support your argument = weak, while there have been many teams that used the FA market to suplement their talent level and make long playoff runs. See the Saints/Vikings/Jets last yr.

4. I would settle for 2 AFC champ game appearances. You wouldn't? No I guess mediocrity'ville is a nice safe place to be.

5. Yeah they got Cutler last yr and they had a bad yr. Their fans demanded a better product so Peppers was signed. They also signed to vet former HC's to be AC's and it paid off for them. It's called taking a risk. Something that some fans of the Texans dont get. Just as they dont demand a better product be put on the field. (Fans like you)

6. They signed Woodson 3-4 yrs ago on the cheap and re-did his contract. I believe they've made the playoffs 3 out of Woodsons 4 yrs in GB. Taking chances,something the Texans organization would know nothing about. But wont make the playoffs until they learn. Would you settle for making 1 NFC camp game, 1 playoff berth and 1 SB in the 4 yrs since Woodson signed as a FA? We dont have to worry about that with the crap that the Texans call a secondary.

7. Didn't the Pats trade for such players as Welker/Moss/Dillon and sign Harrison/Colvin as a FA during their SB runs? It's called being agressive. Something you know nothing about.

8. As for the last part LOL whatever life is good. Who the he** is we anyway?

Double Barrel
01-25-2011, 06:09 PM
I addressed a singular assertion - that they don't spend money. They do. Under Capers/Casserly there was tons of wasted money in Walker, Wade, Robaire Smith, DD, HWWNBN, Weaver, Greenwood. Under Kubiak/Smith they have done better in not having huge total loser contracts like those but have spent a bunch on signing folks like Schaub, AJ, DeMeco, Antonio Smith. They didn't get their return out of Andre Davis, Reeves, Orlovsky, Green, etc. Anyway, the particulars aren't that important. The point is the Texans are at the top of the league in spending money. That isn't the problem. Spending wisely is the problem.

Good post, and the bolded part is where my criticism is directed with the Texans.

I have no idea how hard or simple it is to find qualified FO personnel to wisely spend that money. But, I do know how easy it would be to hold them accountable for on-going failure.

gary
01-25-2011, 07:00 PM
It's not a matter of not spending money but rather how and where you spend it.

Mr teX
01-25-2011, 07:01 PM
1. Great job of avoiding the ? Lets see you refute his points and yes I understand SH sometimes goes over the top. I'm looking forward to your reply. (Wont get one that makes sense)

2. You seem satisfied, But if your not then what would you do differently? Because obviously what they've been doing for the last decade hasn't worked. Trends, love to hear your ideas.

3. Using to inept teams to support your argument = weak, while there have been many teams that used the FA market to suplement their talent level and make long playoff runs. See the Saints/Vikings/Jets last yr.

4. I would settle for 2 AFC champ game appearances. You wouldn't? No I guess mediocrity'ville is a nice safe place to be.

5. Yeah they got Cutler last yr and they had a bad yr. Their fans demanded a better product so Peppers was signed. They also signed to vet former HC's to be AC's and it paid off for them. It's called taking a risk. Something that some fans of the Texans dont get. Just as they dont demand a better product be put on the field. (Fans like you)

6. They signed Woodson 3-4 yrs ago on the cheap and re-did his contract. I believe they've made the playoffs 3 out of Woodsons 4 yrs in GB. Taking chances,something the Texans organization would know nothing about. But wont make the playoffs until they learn. Would you settle for making 1 NFC camp game, 1 playoff berth and 1 SB in the 4 yrs since Woodson signed as a FA? We dont have to worry about that with the crap that the Texans call a secondary.

7. Didn't the Pats trade for such players as Welker/Moss/Dillon and sign Harrison/Colvin as a FA during their SB runs? It's called being agressive. Something you know nothing about.

8. As for the last part LOL whatever life is good. Who the he** is we anyway?

You are a certified ***** & your posts have been full of fail simply b/c you haven't even recognized the thread we're in discussing this matter & my stance on it. That's one thing i certainly would've done differently. 2nd, using 2 bad teams to support my argument is weak? Is it still weak when those 2 teams are at or very much near the top as far as teams who land or trade for "big name" FA's yet have nothing to show for it? naw..i think its just b/c it flies in the face of your silly assertion that FA is the end all be all.

& as far as your other assertion, again, you fail b/c you're simply oversimplifying acting as if the players have no say in any of this. Just throw a bunch of money at them & they'll come...

& taking chances is something the texans don't know about? really? I guess giving up 2 2nd rounders for an unproven back up qb was nothing then. & along with being patently stupid, the release of your vet cbs & going young in your secondary in a playoff or bust year is taking a chance. And now this year, bringing in a former HC as your defensive coordinator while retaining a sub .500 coach.

& as far as the patriots, they were already a sb champion by the time most of those guys came along.

next...

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 07:10 PM
I addressed a singular assertion - that they don't spend money. They do. Under Capers/Casserly there was tons of wasted money in Walker, Wade, Robaire Smith, DD, HWWNBN, Weaver, Greenwood. Under Kubiak/Smith they have done better in not having huge total loser contracts like those but have spent a bunch on signing folks like Schaub, AJ, DeMeco, Antonio Smith. They didn't get their return out of Andre Davis, Reeves, Orlovsky, Green, etc. Anyway, the particulars aren't that important. The point is the Texans are at the top of the league in spending money. That isn't the problem. Spending wisely is the problem.

What would you do differently?

There has to be a few things.

gary
01-25-2011, 07:15 PM
A new DC and mind set in the lockeroom is what is needed to fix the D and a few more play makers as well.

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 07:39 PM
You are a certified ***** & your posts have been full of fail simply b/c you haven't even recognized the thread we're in discussing this matter & my stance on it. That's one thing i certainly would've done differently. 2nd, using 2 bad teams to support my argument is weak? Is it still weak when those 2 teams are at or very much near the top as far as teams who land or trade for "big name" FA's yet have nothing to show for it? naw..i think its just b/c it flies in the face of your silly assertion that FA is the end all be all.

& as far as your other assertion, again, you fail b/c you're simply oversimplifying acting as if the players have no say in any of this. Just throw a bunch of money at them & they'll come...

& taking chances is something the texans don't know about? really? I guess giving up 2 2nd rounders for an unproven back up qb was nothing then. & along with being patently stupid, the release of your vet cbs & going young in your secondary in a playoff or bust year is taking a chance. And now this year, bringing in a former HC as your defensive coordinator while retaining a sub .500 coach.

& as far as the patriots, they were already a sb champion by the time most of those guys came along.

next...

So I'm am A*** and a simpleton. LOL you can do better than that. Many have

If I only had your great wisdom koolaid land would be a wonderfull place to live

FA isn't a be all end all. But teams that use it to suplement the their existing team. See my above post about playoff teams the last 2 yrs. (Something the Texans no nothing about.)

Taking chances, After the HWNSNBM experience failed the Texans were forced to make a change at QB. Gary targeted Schaub and paid the price to get his man. I agreed with his choice BTW.

Taking chances on CB's LOL, Bob didn't want to pay for Dunta and Reeves couldn't play anymore. So it really wasn't taking a chance. It was saving $$$$.

As far as not knowing anything, that's YO. But after a decade of watching terrible football you would think you would have caught on to BoB's game by now. When do you think the Texans 1st AFC championship game will be after watching the teams in the playoffs? You may not be able to admit it but the Texans are along way away and need to change the way they do business. If they want to put a product their fans deserve on the field.

Look, I'm not going to call you names and I'm not going to change your mind. But I've got a decade of proof that says the Texans dont know what their doing and they're not willing to do it the way I would like. So you're right and I'm wrong.

The playoffs meanwhile are just a fantasy for the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS and they deserve a whole lot more than they've received so far in Texans history.

I'm patiently waiting on a playoff berth LOL and either you are BoB or you treat his $$$$ like it's yours. Good luck with that.

JB
01-25-2011, 07:42 PM
Brent Grimes just named to the Pro-Bowl. Dunta is not the best CB on his team I guess, though he is the highest paid.

NitroGSXR
01-25-2011, 07:43 PM
Brent Grimes just named to the Pro-Bowl. Dunta is not the best CB on his team I guess, though he is the highest paid.
What's your point? I don't think anybody ever claimed that Dunta was the best CB on that team.

JB
01-25-2011, 07:53 PM
What's your point? I don't think anybody ever claimed that Dunta was the best CB on that team.

Really? I thought that some had stipulated that he was the difference maker for them. If not, sorry. I just wanted to post it somewhere, and get a dig in while I did. I know you like Dunta, and I do too... as a person. I would have loved for him to stay here under a reasonable contract.

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 07:54 PM
Brent Grimes just named to the Pro-Bowl. Dunta is not the best CB on his team I guess, though he is the highest paid.

Good for Grimes.

He's the Falcons Tramon Williams.

Love to see the underdog do well.

thunderkyss
01-25-2011, 07:55 PM
Hey guys, bottom line is that our secondary was understaffed in the veteran and leadership department leading to our 6-10 year.

Where was the Patriots veteran leadership in the secondary? How 'bout the Ravens? How 'bout the Colts for the last two years.

You're smarter than that Super Mario, many other teams can take two rookie CBs to 9, 10, 11+ wins.

The Denver game was in our hands. The Jets game was ours. San Diego should have been a win... Jacksonville??? And in your mind another veteran leader (somehow-or-another we started calling Jacques Reeves a veteran leader) would have won those games? Wilson won a Super Bowl (a couple I think), Pollard has been in the league as long as Mario & Demeco. Quin was playing his second season.

Don't follow the sheep SuperMario.... don't follow the sheep.

Texan_Bill
01-25-2011, 07:56 PM
He's not even the best nickel on the Falcons (while being paid like one of the top 5 corners in the league). I'm glad being waaaaaaay overpaid by someone else other than the Texans. Good-bye, and good riddance.

steelbtexan
01-25-2011, 08:05 PM
He's not even the best nickel on the Falcons (while being paid like one of the top 5 corners in the league). I'm glad being waaaaaaay overpaid by someone else other than the Texans. Good-bye, and good riddance.

Agreed

If BoB will spend the $$$$ he saved on not resigning Dunta and reinvesting it to bring in some guys to help fix the defense.

NitroGSXR
01-25-2011, 08:16 PM
Really? I thought that some had stipulated that he was the difference maker for them. If not, sorry. I just wanted to post it somewhere, and get a dig in while I did. I know you like Dunta, and I do too... as a person. I would have loved for him to stay here under a reasonable contract.
And franchising him for one more year is reasonable enough for me. Especially considering how thin the FA market was. Just another piss poor move by Smith.

JB
01-25-2011, 08:19 PM
And franchising him for one more year is reasonable enough for me. Especially considering how thin the FA market was. Just another piss poor move by Smith.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one Nitro. I don't think he was worth 12 Million + for one year.

buddyboy
01-25-2011, 08:29 PM
And franchising him for one more year is reasonable enough for me. Especially considering how thin the FA market was. Just another piss poor move by Smith.

While franchising DR seems like a good move on paper, I really think that Dunta would have thrown a tantrum like an 8 year old not getting his way. He was already pissed that he had been franchised once (wahh, I'm being paid as a top 10 CB). I feel like even though with his talent, he would have made our defense better on paper, his displeasure with his contract and his penchant for mouthing off to the press would have a) affect his play since he would be unhappy with being franchised yet again, and b) distracted the other players on the team. Plus, with all that's being said about veteran leadership, is DRob really the guy you want the kiddie corners learning from? Teaching them how to make childish passive aggressive attacks and throwing teammates under the bus even though your play has regressed every year you've been in the league?

thunderkyss
01-25-2011, 09:18 PM
While franchising DR seems like a good move on paper, I really think that Dunta would have thrown a tantrum like an 8 year old not getting his way. He was already pissed that he had been franchised once (wahh, I'm being paid as a top 10 CB).

Guaranteed money & a long term deal. That's what FA want. Behind those, is a chance to win a championship. Regardless what they say, that's the order of importance. You may have a guy who knows he'll get that money from anyone, so he says it's about a championship, but it's about the money first.

We (reportedly) offered Duta $24 mil guaranteed. Very generous in my mind, but Dunta turned it down. We franchised him for almost $10 mil. Had we franchised him again, Dunta would have got another $12 mil. He wouldn't have been disgruntled. He'd know that all he had to do, was get through the year healthy & we couldn't stop him from being a FA. If he thought he was worth $30 mil (like Nmandi) that would be $50 mil he'd have in the bank after just 3 years.

Problem though, is he'd have played as soft as he did for us in 2009. That hit he put on Desuan never would have happened had we franchised him, because he wouldn't risk getting hurt, like he didn't in 2009.

To me, what made Dunta valuable, was that he was a sure tackler & he was a punisher. Since his injury... not so much. So we franchised him, paid him $10 mil in 2009 to be a cover corner. A skill he never showed to be above average (IMO of course).

It was time to let him go. It was time to move on.

Oh yeah... if the report is true, that we offered Dunta $24 million before the 2009 season, I don't believe there is any reason the Texans wouldn't have made that same offer in 2010. I don't know that they did, but why wouldn't they?

He went to ATlanta for $22.5 million guaranteed. 6 years. That's less than what we offered him. (reportedly). He didn't want to be here.

If you consider the $10 million we gave him in 2009, the $22 million he got in 2010, that's $32 million over a 2 year period. He's been paid more than Nmandi over the same time period.

Think about it.
Nmandi actually covers receivers.


I understand the "popular" opinion is that Dunta would easily be the best corner on our team, had he been here. People want to think of him like he's Champ, or Aso..... I've never been a fan of his cover skills, but I still admit he was a better cover corner... much better cover corner than I thought he could be in 2009.

But he still wasn't the kind of player you sign regardless of the cost.

I've been ridiculed & lambasted as a fan who blindly dances to McNair's tune. That I accept mediocrity & do not demand more from this team. Yet I'm not the one saying we should sign this pathetically average player as much as the best young corner in the league today.

Lucky
01-25-2011, 09:51 PM
We (reportedly) offered Duta $24 mil guaranteed.

Oh yeah... if the report is true, that we offered Dunta $24 million before the 2009 season, I don't believe there is any reason the Texans wouldn't have made that same offer in 2010. I don't know that they did, but why wouldn't they?

He went to ATlanta for $22.5 million guaranteed. 6 years. That's less than what we offered him. (reportedly). He didn't want to be here.
You have no idea what was actually offered to Robinson. Robinson's contract is $57 million over 6 seasons. Only $22.5 million guaranteed, but he will see that in much less than 6 years. And you are not including the nearly $10 million in salary he received in 2009. Had the Texans franchised Robinson in 2010, he was due a 20% increase in salary (nearly $12 million). That would have been nearly $22 million guaranteed over two seasons.

Second Honeymoon
01-25-2011, 10:12 PM
I thought this too....after the first 2 years.

Been on this board since the beginning and I am sorry if the truth hurts but I have called it like I have seen it since the beginning too. And been pretty accurate with my takes it just takes longer for some people to realize the ugly reality.

thunderkyss
01-26-2011, 06:32 AM
We (reportedly) offered Duta $24 mil guaranteed. Very generous in my mind, but Dunta turned it down. We franchised him for almost $10 mil. Had we franchised him again, Dunta would have got another $12 mil. He wouldn't have been disgruntled. He'd know that all he had to do, was get through the year healthy & we couldn't stop him from being a FA. If he thought he was worth $30 mil (like Nmandi) that would be $50 mil he'd have in the bank after just 3 years.


You have no idea what was actually offered to Robinson. Robinson's contract is $57 million over 6 seasons. Only $22.5 million guaranteed, but he will see that in much less than 6 years. And you are not including the nearly $10 million in salary he received in 2009. Had the Texans franchised Robinson in 2010, he was due a 20% increase in salary (nearly $12 million). That would have been nearly $22 million guaranteed over two seasons.

I haven't said anything differently. "(reportedly)" means "I don't know, but according to what was reported..."

My point, I believe is the same as yours. Dunta wouldn't have been "upset" or "disgruntled" had we franchised him a second time.

Mr teX
01-26-2011, 09:56 AM
Guaranteed money & a long term deal. That's what FA want. Behind those, is a chance to win a championship. Regardless what they say, that's the order of importance. You may have a guy who knows he'll get that money from anyone, so he says it's about a championship, but it's about the money first.

We (reportedly) offered Duta $24 mil guaranteed. Very generous in my mind, but Dunta turned it down. We franchised him for almost $10 mil. Had we franchised him again, Dunta would have got another $12 mil. He wouldn't have been disgruntled. He'd know that all he had to do, was get through the year healthy & we couldn't stop him from being a FA. If he thought he was worth $30 mil (like Nmandi) that would be $50 mil he'd have in the bank after just 3 years.

Problem though, is he'd have played as soft as he did for us in 2009. That hit he put on Desuan never would have happened had we franchised him, because he wouldn't risk getting hurt, like he didn't in 2009.

To me, what made Dunta valuable, was that he was a sure tackler & he was a punisher. Since his injury... not so much. So we franchised him, paid him $10 mil in 2009 to be a cover corner. A skill he never showed to be above average (IMO of course).

It was time to let him go. It was time to move on.

Oh yeah... if the report is true, that we offered Dunta $24 million before the 2009 season, I don't believe there is any reason the Texans wouldn't have made that same offer in 2010. I don't know that they did, but why wouldn't they?

He went to ATlanta for $22.5 million guaranteed. 6 years. That's less than what we offered him. (reportedly). He didn't want to be here.

If you consider the $10 million we gave him in 2009, the $22 million he got in 2010, that's $32 million over a 2 year period. He's been paid more than Nmandi over the same time period.

Think about it.
Nmandi actually covers receivers.


I understand the "popular" opinion is that Dunta would easily be the best corner on our team, had he been here. People want to think of him like he's Champ, or Aso..... I've never been a fan of his cover skills, but I still admit he was a better cover corner... much better cover corner than I thought he could be in 2009.

But he still wasn't the kind of player you sign regardless of the cost.

I've been ridiculed & lambasted as a fan who blindly dances to McNair's tune. That I accept mediocrity & do not demand more from this team. Yet I'm not the one saying we should sign this pathetically average player as much as the best young corner in the league today.


key phrase there...

HOU-TEX
01-26-2011, 10:20 AM
Been on this board since the beginning and I am sorry if the truth hurts but I have called it like I have seen it since the beginning too. And been pretty accurate with my takes it just takes longer for some people to realize the ugly reality.

Maybe there are some of us that agree with a lot you've said, but refuse to constantly beat a dead horse year after year?

I agree Kubiak should've been whacked.

I agree Smith should've been whacked.

I was not one of the HWWNBN bandwagoners

However, I don't think McNair's cheap. He was a newbie when he opened shop and I think he's been misled by his employees since. He spends the money. He just doesn't seem to spend it wisely.

I let my feelings be known after each season, but unlike you and a few others, I choose to move on. It's what we, as fans, need to do in order to stay sane. There's nothing we can do or say. We either move on with the team, or bail. No sense in repeating our disappointments over and over again.