PDA

View Full Version : Texans defense compared to what I saw yesterday


gafftop
01-16-2011, 03:27 PM
Watched the Steelers Ravens yesterday and I am not sure we have one player on defense that would start for either team. If Wade thinks he has the talent in place to compete he is wrong. He needs at least 3 new starters on this team and I don't want to here about Barwin and Cushing beign two of them because of them not playing or Cushing was just beginning to round into shape. Cushing may be a one season wonder . Remember when they decided they were set with Slaton and just needed a veteran like Brown? Slaton may not even be on the team next year. Wade thinking he has even close to the players he needs reminds me of Kubiak saying he had a QB in Carr. If Wade is counting on Mario to step up and stay healthy I think it will be another long season. i expect to hear that because of the labor agreement we (the Texans) really couldn't do what we wanted to. The management of this team priority is not to have a super bowl quality team. They showed that last year when in a no cap year they did aboslutely NOTHING. I can't believe the coaches really thought they had the team to compete last year. I am not sure what they are seeing in the films that I am not seeing. Maybe the water or air in Reliant has effected their brains. Or as has been said on this board before maybe they just don't have a clue. The Texans fans deserve more than just no price increase this year. i think we need at a minimum the following; 1 A shut down corner, 2 A proven noseguard 3 An impact LB 4 A Real number 2 or better yet a 1a receiver. Don't want to hear about JJ being that guy. If he gets better next year fine, but don't put your eggs in that basket. This may seem like alot but half those move should have been made LAST YEAR. Again i am not satisfied with just no price increase. thanks

JB
01-16-2011, 04:23 PM
No need to attack him if you disagree. Just post your counter.

DexmanC
01-16-2011, 04:24 PM
The Texans went 2-8 over their final 10 games, and their head coach still
was not fired. 'Nuff said.

ThaShark316
01-16-2011, 04:28 PM
Watched the Steelers Ravens yesterday and I am not sure we have one player on defense that would start for either team. If Wade thinks he has the talent in place to compete he is wrong. He needs at least 3 new starters on this team and I don't want to here about Barwin and Cushing beign two of them because of them not playing or Cushing was just beginning to round into shape. Cushing may be a one season wonder . Remember when they decided they were set with Slaton and just needed a veteran like Brown? Slaton may not even be on the team next year. Wade thinking he has even close to the players he needs reminds me of Kubiak saying he had a QB in Carr. If Wade is counting on Mario to step up and stay healthy I think it will be another long season. i expect to hear that because of the labor agreement we (the Texans) really couldn't do what we wanted to. The management of this team priority is not to have a super bowl quality team. They showed that last year when in a no cap year they did aboslutely NOTHING. I can't believe the coaches really thought they had the team to compete last year. I am not sure what they are seeing in the films that I am not seeing. Maybe the water or air in Reliant has effected their brains. Or as has been said on this board before maybe they just don't have a clue. The Texans fans deserve more than just no price increase this year. i think we need at a minimum the following; 1 A shut down corner, 2 A proven noseguard 3 An impact LB 4 A Real number 2 or better yet a 1a receiver. Don't want to hear about JJ being that guy. If he gets better next year fine, but don't put your eggs in that basket. This may seem like alot but half those move should have been made LAST YEAR. Again i am not satisfied with just no price increase. thanks


Texans shitty CBs are on the same shitty level as the Ravens shitty CBs.

Lucky
01-16-2011, 04:30 PM
No need to attack him if you disagree. Just post your counter.
This.

The Texans have players that could start for either the Steelers or the Ravens. The difference is the Texans players are not deployed properly nor well coached. These players would look much improved in Steeler or Raven unis.

JB
01-16-2011, 04:34 PM
This.

The Texans have players that could start for either the Steelers or the Ravens. The difference is the Texans players are deployed properly nor well coached. These players would look much improved in Steeler or Raven unis.

Yep! At this point, all we can hope for is that Wade & his coaches do some actual teaching. He has proven that he can design a good defense, we just have to see what he can do with the players we have here. Without a CBA, there will be no free agent signings by anyone. And the draft is a crapshoot. Hopefully, he can improve our draft record of defensive players also.

gafftop
01-16-2011, 04:40 PM
No need to attack him if you disagree. Just post your counter.

thank you
Obviously just my opinion.

gafftop
01-16-2011, 04:41 PM
Texans shitty CBs are on the same shitty level as the Ravens shitty CBs.

LOL. Could be a coin toss but give me the Ravens' any day.

thunderkyss
01-16-2011, 04:44 PM
I don't understand what Wade was supposed to say. Even if he believes he needs a complete overhaul, he knows he won't be able to get 11 new players in one offseason, especially with all the doubt about the CBA.

I'm sure he is hoping McNair & Kubiak will put their money where their mouths have been the last few weeks, & we will be very active in FA.

No reason to openly tell the 8 or 9 guys who will remain starters that they have no faith in them.

gafftop
01-16-2011, 04:44 PM
This.

The Texans have players that could start for either the Steelers or the Ravens. The difference is the Texans players are not deployed properly nor well coached. These players would look much improved in Steeler or Raven unis.

I pray you are correct. If not going to be another LONG season or short season depending on how you look at it.

CloakNNNdagger
01-16-2011, 04:59 PM
Yep! At this point, all we can hope for is that Wade & his coaches do some actual teaching. He has proven that he can design a good defense, we just have to see what he can do with the players we have here. Without a CBA, there will be no free agent signings by anyone. And the draft is a crapshoot. Hopefully, he can improve our draft record of defensive players also.

Only if D is made the priority and he has "majority say" (over Kubiak AND Smith) as to the order, position and specific player to be chosen. If finances have an "over-riding affect" on the choices, it can be expected that draft choices will have little impact on the 2011 team. For the most part, going after those "cheap diamonds in the rough" have not served us very well. For that matter, those expensive diamonds have usually materialize just as well. I hope the blind squirrels are not still roaming our midst come this Draft.......or, for that matter, FA whenever it opens up.

http://badgerblogger.com/wp-content/blindsquirrel.jpg

JB
01-16-2011, 05:03 PM
Only if D is made the priority and he has "majority say" (over Kubiak AND Smith) as to the order, position and specific player to be chosen. If finances have an "over-riding affect" on the choices, it can be expected that draft choices will have little impact on the 2011 team. For the most part, going after those "cheap diamonds in the rough" have not served us very well. For that matter, those expensive diamonds have usually materialize just as well. I hope the blind squirrels are not still roaming our midst come this Draft.......or, for that matter, FA whenever it opens up.

http://badgerblogger.com/wp-content/blindsquirrel.jpg

From what I've heard, Kubiak had the call on offensive players, and Smith on defensive players. Hopefully, Wade will have the call on defensive players now.

CloakNNNdagger
01-16-2011, 05:14 PM
From what I've heard, Kubiak had the call on offensive players, and Smith on defensive players. Hopefully, Wade will have the call on defensive players now.


If that is so, that much more reason to question how the heck Smith has managed to survive.

JB
01-16-2011, 05:22 PM
If that is so, that much more reason to question how the heck Smith has managed to survive.

Yep!

thunderkyss
01-16-2011, 05:39 PM
If that is so, that much more reason to question how the heck Smith has managed to survive.

I'm holding out hope that it isn't over with Rick Smith.

In my dreams, McNair put him on notice, he's got to get Bailey or Aso to sign with the Texans, or he's gone.

ArlingtonTexan
01-16-2011, 05:44 PM
From what I've heard, Kubiak had the call on offensive players, and Smith on defensive players. Hopefully, Wade will have the call on defensive players now.

So who figures out whether they should draft an offensive or defensive player at a certain spot.

Anyway, if this is true, Kubiak is doing a way better job than Smith. I mean there are high draft picks and decent FA money all over the defense while the offense in terms of draft poistion and Fa money really is not that highly invester.

Hagar
01-16-2011, 05:51 PM
Watched the Steelers Ravens yesterday and I am not sure we have one player on defense that would start for either team. If Wade thinks he has the talent in place to compete he is wrong. He needs at least 3 new starters on this team and I don't want to here about Barwin and Cushing beign two of them because of them not playing or Cushing was just beginning to round into shape. Cushing may be a one season wonder.

I have to admit, I was thinking along the same lines as Gafftop yestarday. I think if you put each teams players on a sheet of paper and listed thier physical gifts out, like 40 yard dash and bench press numbers, you wouldn't find much difference. However, the attitude of the players is another story. The players for both the Ravens and Steelers are significantly more physical then the Texans. Its easy to see, just watch the tackling.

The one player who I thought would fit in was Cushing. The problem is that Cushing maybe a juicer. Maybe the reason he was so good last year and so bad this year wasn't because of the suspension, maybe he really was taking roids. I hope not, I hope it was the time off due to the suspension. Time will tell.

Texans shitty CBs are on the same shitty level as the Ravens shitty CBs.

The difference is the Ravens have a really good front 7 and a hall of fame Safety named Ed Reed.

Lucky
01-16-2011, 05:54 PM
From what I've heard, Kubiak had the call on offensive players, and Smith on defensive players. Hopefully, Wade will have the call on defensive players now.
Is this from an internet article, or from a radio talk show? On 2009 draft day, it was suggested that Cushing was a Frank Bush pick. And I'm certain I've read Kubiak taking credit for Mario.

Really, this reeks of (more) Kubiak apologizing. If it's good, it's on Gary. If it's bad, it's on somebody else. How can Gary be so ignorant on the defensive side of the ball, but design an offense to attack defenses? It just doesn't add up.

J_R
01-16-2011, 06:01 PM
Is this from an internet article, or from a radio talk show? On 2009 draft day, it was suggested that Cushing was a Frank Bush pick. And I'm certain I've read Kubiak taking credit for Mario.

Really, this reeks of (more) Kubiak apologizing. If it's good, it's on Gary. If it's bad, it's on somebody else. How can Gary be so ignorant on the defensive side of the ball, but design an offense to attack defenses? It just doesn't add up.

Probably from Lance Zierlein. But I wont speak for him. That's where I read it/heard it.

JB
01-16-2011, 06:02 PM
Is this from an internet article, or from a radio talk show? On 2009 draft day, it was suggested that Cushing was a Frank Bush pick. And I'm certain I've read Kubiak taking credit for Mario.

Really, this reeks of (more) Kubiak apologizing. If it's good, it's on Gary. If it's bad, it's on somebody else. How can Gary be so ignorant on the defensive side of the ball, but design an offense to attack defenses? It just doesn't add up.

I don't remember where I heard it. May have been on here. May have been on one of the blogs...

But, it would not surprise me if Smith made the calls on the DB's.

Pantherstang84
01-16-2011, 06:09 PM
Is this from an internet article, or from a radio talk show? On 2009 draft day, it was suggested that Cushing was a Frank Bush pick. And I'm certain I've read Kubiak taking credit for Mario.

Really, this reeks of (more) Kubiak apologizing. If it's good, it's on Gary. If it's bad, it's on somebody else. How can Gary be so ignorant on the defensive side of the ball, but design an offense to attack defenses? It just doesn't add up.

I asked my self about being so ignorant about offense after I was fired from Tampa Bay.

Signed,

Tony Dungy


I am not comparing Kubiak to Dungy as far as quality is concerned. Human nature is that people tend to gravitate towards what they are familiar with. You can attack an opponent without knowing their plan inside and out. You simply react to what they are doing.

beerlover
01-16-2011, 06:13 PM
How can Gary be so ignorant on the defensive side of the ball, but design an offense to attack defenses? It just doesn't add up.

my impression is Gary feels he can coach up the offensive side more than the defense, which is why he had to fire Bush & hire somebody with proven experience to coach up the defense too!

thunderkyss
01-16-2011, 06:14 PM
How can Gary be so ignorant on the defensive side of the ball, but design an offense to attack defenses? It just doesn't add up.

Agreed, especially knowing he has aspirations to be a head coach in this league one day.

Lucky
01-16-2011, 06:27 PM
You can attack an opponent without knowing their plan inside and out. You simply react to what they are doing.
Couldn't Kubiak anticipate how other teams would attack the Texans defense? Couldn't Kubiak see that what Richard Smith and Frank Bush were doing was not going to work?

The answer is obviously, no he couldn't foresee that. I'm not suggesting that Kubiak should have been able to design a respectable defense. Just that he should have been able to identify this disaster much, much sooner.

JB
01-16-2011, 06:29 PM
Couldn't Kubiak anticipate how other teams would attack the Texans defense? Couldn't Kubiak see that what Richard Smith and Frank Bush were doing was not going to work?

The answer is obviously, no he couldn't foresee that. I'm not suggesting that Kubiak should have been able to design a respectable defense. Just that he should have been able to identify this disaster much, much sooner.

You would think so.

thunderkyss
01-16-2011, 06:51 PM
The answer is obviously, no he couldn't foresee that. I'm not suggesting that Kubiak should have been able to design a respectable defense. Just that he should have been able to identify this disaster much, much sooner.

& do what?

Fire David Gibbs, & make Ray Rhodes a little more accountable?

I think that, or fire Frank Bush & make Rhodes the interim DC were his only real options. For some reason, that was off the table. & for all we know, Bush was merely a puppet for Rhodes, being stripped of any real authority.... I mean with that steel curtain and all, we don't really know what was going on.

I remember after one game, when Frank Bush was given a game ball(it might have been that Rusty Smith? Tennessee game). The way Kubiak presented the ball, the way Bush was quietly against a wall.

If only I were a fly on the wall. But something wasn't right.

Lucky
01-16-2011, 06:55 PM
& do what?
Solve the problem? Make things right? Be a head coach? Do anything besides tap on a podium and say "It's on me" when it was always on someone else.

GuerillaBlack
01-16-2011, 08:09 PM
Yep! At this point, all we can hope for is that Wade & his coaches do some actual teaching. He has proven that he can design a good defense, we just have to see what he can do with the players we have here. Without a CBA, there will be no free agent signings by anyone. And the draft is a crapshoot. Hopefully, he can improve our draft record of defensive players also.

We just gotta hope Kubiak becomes a better gameday coach. A fixed defense will only go so far if the offense still starts the games slow.

JB
01-16-2011, 08:20 PM
We just gotta hope Kubiak becomes a better gameday coach. A fixed defense will only go so far if the offense still starts the games slow.


Hopefully, that will be cured also.

Allstar
01-16-2011, 08:25 PM
paragraphs are your friend, OP.

Hervoyel
01-16-2011, 08:39 PM
Wade just followed the Gary Kubiak method of getting the job. He told McNair & Co. that their collection of turds didn't stink and knew he didn't have to worry about the smell for 2-3 seasons.

To be honest I can't find fault with that. It gets you the job and it's not like he doesn't have an excellent basis for believing that he'll have time to actually fix what's broken. Wade Phillips has more DC "mojo" than three Frank Bush's and 7 Richard Smith's even with a Ray Rhodes thrown in and look how long they gave those clowns.

GuerillaBlack
01-16-2011, 08:44 PM
Hopefully, that will be cured also.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7141/ohdamnlol.gif

Doubt it. Wait and see.

JB
01-16-2011, 09:03 PM
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/7141/ohdamnlol.gif

Doubt it. Wait and see.

That's all we can do at this point.

gafftop
01-16-2011, 09:22 PM
I have to admit, I was thinking along the same lines as Gafftop yestarday. I think if you put each teams players on a sheet of paper and listed thier physical gifts out, like 40 yard dash and bench press numbers, you wouldn't find much difference. However, the attitude of the players is another story. The players for both the Ravens and Steelers are significantly more physical then the Texans. Its easy to see, just watch the tackling.

The one player who I thought would fit in was Cushing. The problem is that Cushing maybe a juicer. Maybe the reason he was so good last year and so bad this year wasn't because of the suspension, maybe he really was taking roids. I hope not, I hope it was the time off due to the suspension. Time will tell.



The difference is the Ravens have a really good front 7 and a hall of fame Safety named Ed Reed.

I think Antonio Smith touched upon it when he said this isn't a team. This is just a bunch pro athletes playing a game, it isn't a team yet. They only play for themselves not for a common goal. That is why you don't see the passion. Again just my opinion.

JB
01-16-2011, 09:25 PM
I think Antonio Smith touched upon it when he said this isn't a team. This is just a bunch pro athletes playing a game, it isn't a team yet. They only play for themselves not for a common goal. That is why you don't see the passion. Again just my opinion.

I think that is a very good point. They have not jelled as a team yet on the defensive side of the ball.

Texan_Bill
01-16-2011, 09:28 PM
I think that is a very good point. They have not jelled as a team yet on the defensive side of the ball.

Blue Crew is more of a team than the Texans!!


Just sayin'!

JB
01-16-2011, 09:30 PM
Blue Crew is more of a team than the Texans!!


Just sayin'!

Damn right! And I am proud to be on the practice squad!

Hagar
01-16-2011, 10:05 PM
I think Antonio Smith touched upon it when he said this isn't a team. This is just a bunch pro athletes playing a game, it isn't a team yet. They only play for themselves not for a common goal. That is why you don't see the passion. Again just my opinion.That very well could be true. It would be hard for us, being fans, to see that on the field, but someone inside the locker room, like Antonio Smith, would see it.

Comes down to leadership. Something, I think this has lacked since letting go of Sharper and Glenn. Yeah, I know they were on their last legs, but something you keep those wiley, old vets around to help coach up the young guns.

Nawzer
01-16-2011, 10:58 PM
When I watched the Packers, Bears, Jets, Steeler, and even the Ravens (despite their meltdown), the thing that stands out the most is: Speed and tackling. Texans defense will have to get fast and they will have to become better tacklers.

Runner
01-17-2011, 01:36 AM
So who figures out whether they should draft an offensive or defensive player at a certain spot.



Those are the "negotiations" it would be interesting to witness.

thunderkyss
01-17-2011, 08:42 AM
Solve the problem? Make things right? Be a head coach? Do anything besides tap on a podium and say "It's on me" when it was always on someone else.

If he had a magic wand, I'm sure he would have used it.

You make it sound as though he did nothing. I think it is obvious that he didn't do enough, but far from just sitting there tapping on a podium.

True or false, did we or did we not have FA CBs visit the Texans in the offseason? I believe we had Cromartie in here. I believe we were talking to Bodden. But the deal didn't get done. Was it Bob being cheap? Was it Rick Smith not being able to sell the Texans? Was it Kubiak saying they weren't good enough for this team? Or saying they weren't the right fit?

Who knows. If it was actually Kubiak's decision that we didn't need those guys.. then it truly is on him. If it were any of those other reasons..... the guy did what he had to do, without throwing anyone under the bus (save Frank Bush & David Gibbs) who should have been (Smith & McNair).

True or False, did he get Frank Bush from the booth to the sideline? I don't know that he did, but whoever made that decision, clearly it was to help "fix" the defense. Didn't work.... but my point is that someone was doing something to try to fix the defense.

True or False, did we not have Damien Lewis, Mark Anderson, Tim Jamison, Nolan, Sharpton, Jason Allen, & McMannis in & out of the game? Not to mention all the FA LBs we signed because of injuries. Again, didn't help much... but it's not like we didn't try to "fix" the defense from a personnel stand point. From a coaching standpoint, those guys came in & played hard, they even played well at times.

The only thing I think they should have done, that they did not, was fire Holland earlier. I don't know who you would have put in that position, or if you even needed someone, LBs was Frank Bush's thing. But the LBs were horrendous in coverage.

I could also see firing Gibbs mid season, & putting that on Rhodes.

But I completely agree, as head coach, Kubiak should know what needs to be done to fix the problem. I also believe 5 years into this, injury can not be an excuse... he should have enough depth on the roster to account for injury. Losing Mario & Demeco.... I can understand some drop off, but to be the absolute worse?? to look as bad as we did?? there's no excuse for that.

Other than... we've consistently been among the worst in the league defensively. 2009 was the abberation... Football outsiders had it right, we were uncannily healthy for the 2009 season & it bit us in the butt in 2010. With that thinking, Frank Bush didn't really do anything.

So we've got 5 years of treading water on defense. Kubiak picked those DCs.. & failed every time. Truly not a head coach, won't get any argument from me on that.

But to say he did nothing but tap his fingers....... c'mon.

CloakNNNdagger
01-17-2011, 08:43 AM
When I watched the Packers, Bears, Jets, Steeler, and even the Ravens (despite their meltdown), the thing that stands out the most is: Speed and tackling. Texans defense will have to get fast and they will have to become better tacklers.


Tackling has been a perennial problem of the Kubiak era. The order of the day has been arm tackling and body bumping. Players have seldom shown a propensity to hit with the body AND wrap with the arms. First few times.......shame on the player. Next hundred times...........shame on the coaches.

BigBull17
01-18-2011, 09:06 AM
If you think guys like Mario, Demeco, Cushing (maybe), couldn't play for either team you have another thing coming. Mario, despite posters thinking he is the worst DE in NFL history, could play for damn near every team in the NFL.

VTexan
01-18-2011, 12:17 PM
Watched the Steelers Ravens yesterday and I am not sure we have one player on defense that would start for either team. If Wade thinks he has the talent in place to compete he is wrong. He needs at least 3 new starters on this team and I don't want to here about Barwin and Cushing beign two of them because of them not playing or Cushing was just beginning to round into shape. Cushing may be a one season wonder . Remember when they decided they were set with Slaton and just needed a veteran like Brown? Slaton may not even be on the team next year. Wade thinking he has even close to the players he needs reminds me of Kubiak saying he had a QB in Carr. If Wade is counting on Mario to step up and stay healthy I think it will be another long season. i expect to hear that because of the labor agreement we (the Texans) really couldn't do what we wanted to. The management of this team priority is not to have a super bowl quality team. They showed that last year when in a no cap year they did aboslutely NOTHING. I can't believe the coaches really thought they had the team to compete last year. I am not sure what they are seeing in the films that I am not seeing. Maybe the water or air in Reliant has effected their brains. Or as has been said on this board before maybe they just don't have a clue. The Texans fans deserve more than just no price increase this year. i think we need at a minimum the following; 1 A shut down corner, 2 A proven noseguard 3 An impact LB 4 A Real number 2 or better yet a 1a receiver. Don't want to hear about JJ being that guy. If he gets better next year fine, but don't put your eggs in that basket. This may seem like alot but half those move should have been made LAST YEAR. Again i am not satisfied with just no price increase. thanks

paragraphs are cool