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View Full Version : Texans hire Vance Joseph as DB coach


MFG16
01-13-2011, 03:26 PM
Link: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7380135.html

HOU-TEX
01-13-2011, 03:30 PM
Never heard of him...

JWarren14
01-13-2011, 03:32 PM
SF had a pretty solid D

Not much out there on the guy, but can't be any worse than we had...can it?

Pretty shitty Dallas denied us permission and we are offering up Dennison to Denver, are we being too nice or is Dallas just being a POS?

gary
01-13-2011, 03:34 PM
Never heard of him...
Me either.

m5kwatts
01-13-2011, 03:38 PM
SF has had one of the slowest secondaries in the league the past few years... I think he's gotten a lot out of not much. He'll have more speed and youth to work with here.

ThaShark316
01-13-2011, 03:42 PM
Of course no one knows him.

He's not some coach's son who got the job because his pops was on the staff...

Yeah, you David Gibbs.

BorrowMe
01-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Vince Joseph's Tenure in San Fran:

49ers Pass D Ranks:

2005 - 32nd
2006 - 26th
2007 - 22nd
2008 - 20th
2009 - 21st
2010 - 24th

MFG16
01-13-2011, 03:49 PM
Of course no one knows him.

He's not some coach's son who got the job because his pops was on the staff...

Yeah, you David Gibbs.

He did go to Colorado. :kitten:

rmartin65
01-13-2011, 03:49 PM
Vince Joseph's Tenure in San Fran:

49ers Pass D Ranks:

2005 - 32nd
2006 - 26th
2007 - 22nd
2008 - 20th
2009 - 21st
2010 - 24th

Alright! Big move by your, Hoooustooon Texans!

Seriously. Moving from 32 to 24 would be great.

thunderkyss
01-13-2011, 03:56 PM
Pretty shitty Dallas denied us permission and we are offering up Dennison to Denver, are we being too nice or is Dallas just being a POS?

If we were offering Dennison up for a lateral move, I'd agree... but he's looking to get promoted. I don't think we could have stopped it if we wanted to.

Herring wouldn't be getting a promotion. It would be a lateral move.

thunderkyss
01-13-2011, 03:57 PM
Vince Joseph's Tenure in San Fran:

49ers Pass D Ranks:

2005 - 32nd
2006 - 26th
2007 - 22nd
2008 - 20th
2009 - 21st
2010 - 24th

Pass D has a lot more to do with a lot of things other than the DBs......

will742
01-13-2011, 04:01 PM
SF had a pretty solid D

Not much out there on the guy, but can't be any worse than we had...can it?

Pretty shitty Dallas denied us permission and we are offering up Dennison to Denver, are we being too nice or is Dallas just being a POS?

It's common courtesy that you allow an assistant to interview for a higher position (Head Coach), whereas the Dallas assistant would have been named to the same position.

jaayteetx
01-13-2011, 04:05 PM
Can he teach guys not to fall down?

HoustonFrog
01-13-2011, 04:11 PM
It's common courtesy that you allow an assistant to interview for a higher position (Head Coach), whereas the Dallas assistant would have been named to the same position.

Not only that but their coach is under contract still and they haven't named a D Coordinator so they are making sure everything is in order.

Never heard of this guy...thought he played in COLORADO in college.

GP
01-13-2011, 04:13 PM
Never heard of this guy...thought he played in COLORADO in college.

Seriously? LOL. Man, comedy can't be written any better than real life.

Even if it's a coincidence, it's a funny coincidence.

J_R
01-13-2011, 04:37 PM
^^^Looks like BorrowMe posted it but...

SF pass defense(rank and pass y/g)

2005(32nd-276.7 y/g)
(Secondary: B.J. Tucker, Bruce Thornton(starter), Jeremy Thornburg, Shawntae Spencer(starter), Mike Rumph, Kris Richard, Ahmed Plummer, Tony Parrish(starter), Willie Middlebrooks, Keith Lewis, Derrick Johnson(starter), Ben Emanuel(starter), Dwaine Carpenter, Marques Anderson, Mike Adams(starter))

(D-line: Corey Smith, Marques Douglas(starter), Andre Carter, Isaac Sopoaga, Ronald Fields, Bryant Young(starter), Travis Hall, Anthony Adams(starter))

2006(26th-223.2 y/g)
(Secondary: Chad Williams, B.J. Tucker, Donald Strickland, Shawntae Spencer(starter), Mark Roman(starter), Tony Parrish(starter), Keith Lewis(starter), Marcus Hudson, Walt Harris(starter), Sammy Davis, Deke Cooper, Mike Adams(starter))

(D-line: Melvin Oliver(starter), Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Marques Douglas(starter), Isaac Sopoaga, Ronald Fields(starter), Damane Duckett, Bryant Young(starter), Anthony Adams(starter))

2007(22nd-227.7 y/g)
(Secondary: Donald Strickland, Shawntae Spencer, Mark Roman(starter), Michael Lewis(starter), Keith Lewis, Marcus Hudson, Walt Harris(starter), Dashon Goldson, Nate Clements(starter), Tarrell Brown)

(D-line: Ray McDonald, Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Marques Douglas(starter), Isaac Sopoaga(starter), Aubrayo Franklin(starter), Ronald Fields, Bryant Young(starter))

2008(20th-219.2 y/g)
(Secondary: Donald Strickland, Shawntae Spencer, Reggie Smith, Allen Rossum, Mark Roman(starter), Michael Lewis(starter), Keith Lewis, Marcus Hudson, Walt Harris(starter), Dashon Goldson, Nate Clements(starter), Tarrell Brown)

(D-line: Justin Smith(starter), Ray McDonald(starter), Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Isaac Sopoaga(starter), Aubrayo Franklin(starter), Ronald Fields, Kentwan Balmer)

2009(21st-229.4 y/g)
(Secondary: Curtis Taylor, Shawntae Spencer(starter), Reggie Smith, Keith Smith, Allen Rossum, Mark Roman, Michael Lewis(starter), Marcus Hudson, Dashon Goldson(starter), Nate Clements(starter), Tarrell Brown, Dre Bly(starter))

(D-line: Justin Smith(starter), Ray McDonald, Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Demetric Evans, Isaac Sopoaga(starter), Ricky Jean-Francois, Aubrayo Franklin(starter), Kentwan Balmer)

2010(24th-231.1 y/g)
(Secondary: Tramaine Brock, Phillip Adams, Curtis Taylor, C.J. Spillman, Shawntae Spencer, Reggie Smith, Will Peterson, Taylor Mays, Chris Maragos, Michael Lewis, Dashon Goldson, Nate Clements, Tarrell Brown)

(D-line: Justin Smith, Ray McDonald, Manny Lawson, Travis LaBoy, Parys Haralson, Thaddeus Gibson, Demetric Evans, Isaac Sopoaga, Ricky Jean-Francois, Aubrayo Franklin)

eriadoc
01-13-2011, 04:59 PM
Any chance this guy played TE in his playing days? You know .... just for the symmetry of it all.

gtexan02
01-13-2011, 05:01 PM
So basically, the last time this guy inherited a 32nd ranked pass defense, he turned it into the 26th ranked pass defense?

And that is in the NFC West, a perenially awful division.

I fear for our Texans next year.

Ryan
01-13-2011, 05:11 PM
championship!

HOU-TEX
01-13-2011, 05:12 PM
Ray Rhodes has retired

IDEXAN
01-13-2011, 05:20 PM
Sounds like a pretty descent hire. He's almost home, looks like he's a NOLA native. Hey he worked for Singletary in San Fran, maybe he can talk him into coming to Houston and coach the 'backers ?

MFG16
01-13-2011, 05:38 PM
Sounds like a pretty descent hire. He's almost home, looks like he's a NOLA native. Hey he worked for Singletary in San Fran, maybe he can talk him into coming to Houston and coach the 'backers ?

If he brings over anybody from SF, it needs to be Franklin. we need a NT bad.

texanchris
01-13-2011, 05:58 PM
Seems like a sort of lateral movment from 1 bad secondary coach to the next. From reading the article on nfl.com, 49er's fans are actually happy that he is gone

The Pencil Neck
01-13-2011, 06:04 PM
Can he teach guys not to fall down?

And to turn their freaking heads.

Nawzer
01-13-2011, 06:19 PM
And to turn their freaking heads.

Can he teach guys not to fall down?

This would be an excellent place to start. Step #1-Identify the location of the football. Step#2-Don't fall down at least not as much as last season.

GP
01-13-2011, 09:23 PM
Can someone please enlighten me as to how THIS hiring is going to improve the secondary?

What a joke.

J_R
01-13-2011, 09:35 PM
Can someone please enlighten me as to how THIS hiring is going to improve the secondary?

What a joke.

'Joseph has a chance to be special.' - GK


“Vance has been coaching Wade’s coverages and playing his techniques with the 49ers, so he’ll fit right in,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “He comes highly recommended by some real good people. We think he’s got what it takes to be real special.”

OzzO
01-13-2011, 09:37 PM
Alan (http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/report-texans-make-offer-to-joseph-for-db-coach-job)provided the connection:

If you're looking for connections, follow along:

49ers defensive coordinator Greg Manusky was linebackers coach under Wade Phillips at San Diego from 2004-06. Manusky brought Phillips' 3-4 to San Francisco and Joseph coached the 49ers secondary in that system.

.. and why Kubiak wanted him...
"Vance coached the secondary in San Francisco running (Texans defensive coordinator) Wade's (Phillips) system and that is a big key." via myfox (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/nfl/110113-texans-hire-49ers'-joseph-to-coach-secondary)

Thorn
01-13-2011, 09:43 PM
Vance Joseph. Sounds like a pill or something. We'll probably go 0-9 in a strike shortened season now, McNair will finally blow his stack and fire everyone. The New Guy will trade everyone away and in 2012 we'll go 6-12 in the new 18 game regular season.

You see, this is what screwing around with the coaching staff does to ya. They just can't leave well enough alone, can they?

:kubepalm:

:wadepalm:


Anybody notice how cold it is outside? It must be winter or something. :thinking:

GP
01-13-2011, 10:01 PM
Ah, thanks hsf09.

I forgot. Kubiak said he's going to be special, and he came highly recommended by some good people.

Better start getting our guys fitted for Super Bowl rings. Vance Effin' Joseph is here.

This is so underwhelming, I have to cue a Gary Kubiak "special" shake weight gif:


http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1443092_o.gif

mariowillshine15
01-13-2011, 10:02 PM
Hope he's good.

It can't get any worse so he has low expectations going for him.

GP
01-13-2011, 10:06 PM
Better go grab you some bleach for your eyes, boys.

That imagery doesn't go away on its own.

CloakNNNdagger
01-13-2011, 10:47 PM
SF had a pretty solid D

Not much out there on the guy, but can't be any worse than we had...can it?

Pretty shitty Dallas denied us permission and we are offering up Dennison to Denver, are we being too nice or is Dallas just being a POS?

We HAD to allow Dennison to interview. Dallas did not HAVE to allow an interview.

TexanSam
01-13-2011, 10:50 PM
Can someone please enlighten me as to how THIS hiring is going to improve the secondary?

What a joke.

Can you name other secondary coaches? Texans needed a coach, they hired one.

The Pencil Neck
01-13-2011, 10:53 PM
Ah, thanks hsf09.

I forgot. Kubiak said he's going to be special, and he came highly recommended by some good people.

Which secondary coach, that currently doesn't have a job and who knows Wade's system, would have made you happy?

2slik4u
01-13-2011, 10:56 PM
Sounds like a pretty descent hire. He's almost home, looks like he's a NOLA native. Hey he worked for Singletary in San Fran, maybe he can talk him into coming to Houston and coach the 'backers ?

I would love if this happened. Everyones giving him s--- for having no better than the 21st ranked pass defense but no one could run the ball on SF so all they did was pass.

Maybe its a reach of an excuse but Im looking for any silver lining.

CloakNNNdagger
01-13-2011, 11:06 PM
Another University of Colorado connection.

QB at U of Colorado. NFL converted to DB by Jets and played position for Colts also. Defensive backs coach at Wyoming. Went back to U of Colorado as defensive backs coach.

Sexual harrassment case as an assistant coach at University of Colorado. LINK (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/2005-08-12-colo-depositions_x.htm)

2slik4u
01-13-2011, 11:12 PM
Another University of Colorado connection.

QB at U of Colorado. NFL converted to DB by Jets and played position for Colts also. Defensive backs coach at Wyoming. Went back to U of Colorado as defensive backs coach.

Sexual harrassment case as an assistant coach at University of Colorado. LINK (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/2005-08-12-colo-depositions_x.htm)

Nice, so you know he parties. :beerfunnel:

RTP2110
01-13-2011, 11:26 PM
Can you name other secondary coaches? Texans needed a coach, they hired one.

This.

Which secondary coach, that currently doesn't have a job and who knows Wade's system, would have made you happy?

And this. Seems like a lot of overreacting to this hire.

Ranger Tom
01-13-2011, 11:38 PM
Better go grab you some bleach for your eyes, boys.

That imagery doesn't go away on its own.

No, it doesn't. Luckily... www.eyebleach.com (http://www.eyebleach.com/)

As for Mr. Joseph, he looks good on paper. That's all I can say.

BigBull17
01-13-2011, 11:46 PM
Vince Joseph's Tenure in San Fran:

49ers Pass D Ranks:

2005 - 32nd
2006 - 26th
2007 - 22nd
2008 - 20th
2009 - 21st
2010 - 24th

Sweet, an upgrade!

painekiller
01-14-2011, 03:39 AM
He tried out for the Broncos and was cut during the final cut down. His assistant secondary coach on the Bronco's that season? Rick Smith, yea that Rick Smith the current GM for the Texans.

There is the Denver connection.

Color me unimpressed

:wadepalm:

chron.com (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7381044.html)

“But you need to have Denver Broncos’ ties to coach for the Texans.”

There you doubting Texans’ fans go again.

OK, Joseph was waived by the Broncos in the final cut at the end of training camp in 1997, when Texans head coach Gary Kubiak was Denver’s offensive coordinator and general manager Rick Smith was the Broncos’ assistant defensive backs coach.

Satisfied?

TexanAggie89
01-14-2011, 05:05 AM
Another University of Colorado connection.

QB at U of Colorado. NFL converted to DB by Jets and played position for Colts also. Defensive backs coach at Wyoming. Went back to U of Colorado as defensive backs coach.

Sexual harrassment case as an assistant coach at University of Colorado. LINK (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/big12/2005-08-12-colo-depositions_x.htm)

LOL, where is the Coloradon University connection coming from?

....Youre thinking of Colorado State...:kubepalm:

CloakNNNdagger
01-14-2011, 09:10 AM
LOL, where is the Coloradon University connection coming from?

....Youre thinking of Colorado State...:kubepalm:

Guess we ran out of transfers and had to go to the next closest thing. :lol::kubepalm:

GP
01-14-2011, 09:50 AM
Can you name other secondary coaches? Texans needed a coach, they hired one.

Are we at this place again? AGAIN?

(sigh)

This organization is not about finding "the best guy."

This organization is about hiring friends or past acquaintances they've worked with.

This was a joke of a hiring, and once again...it gets poo-poo'd as being OK. Bob paid Bum's son and so now any subsequent hire is going to be poo-poo'd. All part of the frugality and frailty that is McNair and Kubiak's psyche/emotional state of mind. You know, whatever reduces the trauma of dramatic change and all.

As much as you guys are tired of the anti-establishment rhetoric on here, we're tired of the same old horsecrap and the fans poo-poo'ing it.

I predicted to myself that it wouldn't be long before someone came on here and pulled the "Oh, yeah tough guy? Well who would YOU have chosen?" I mean, that's not even a relevant question. I don't work in the NFL. Had I been employed in the NFL as long as Wade Phillips has, as well as some other Texans personnel have, I would bet my ass that I could try harder at identifying and hiring people than the Texans do. There are tons of colleges who run the 3-4 and have up-and-coming secondary coaches who want to come to the NFL and parlay that into possibly a d-coord job in the NFL. Plenty.

How many people did Denver interview for their job? FIVE. When we hired for d-coord, how many did we interview? One. And a so-called "phone call" to Marvin Lewis, which I suspect is bogus or was at best a cover-up call that had no real teeth to it.

Yeah, we hired the best man for the secondary coaching job. Vance Joseph is about as good as it gets. Geez....

dream_team
01-14-2011, 10:27 AM
This organization is not about finding "the best guy."

This organization is about hiring friends or past acquaintances they've worked with.


Believe it or not, most people hire friends or past acquaintances. It doesn't matter what industry you're in. It's alot safer to hire someone you know and have had past experience with, rather than take a chance on someone you don't know.

I'd be more worried if they hired some guy they don't really know.

If we hired Cowher, he'd do the same thing. Bring in his buddies and past co-workers to be the coordinators and assistants.

GP
01-14-2011, 10:32 AM
Believe it or not, most people hire friends or past acquaintances. It doesn't matter what industry you're in. It's alot safer to hire someone you know and have had past experience with, rather than take a chance on someone you don't know.

I'd be more worried if they hired some guy they don't really know.

If we hired Cowher, he'd do the same thing. Bring in his buddies and past co-workers to be the coordinators and assistants.

If that course of action produces results, then I'm all for it.

The track record in THIS instance, with this cast of characters, is not the same as Cowher's buddies.

It is true that you can hire people you're comfortable with, but that's a tricky and sometimes sticky situation if it doesn't work out as originally envisioned. It can make it even worse.

BigBull17
01-14-2011, 10:38 AM
Damn, Gary needs new friends.

dream_team
01-14-2011, 11:24 AM
If that course of action produces results, then I'm all for it.

The track record in THIS instance, with this cast of characters, is not the same as Cowher's buddies.

It is true that you can hire people you're comfortable with, but that's a tricky and sometimes sticky situation if it doesn't work out as originally envisioned. It can make it even worse.

Like what Big Bull said, the problem is Gary's buddies aren't that great themselves.

But I like the Phillips hiring. Finally someone that has a proven record as a DC!

silvrhand
01-14-2011, 12:34 PM
Damn, Gary needs new friends.

Lol quote of the week..

silvrhand
01-14-2011, 01:01 PM
I can't believe that we hired a coach that never played DB until his first year in the NFL.. We need experienced coaches/players to teach our young talent..

Joseph was signed by the New York Jets as an undrafted free agent in 1995 and switched to defensive back. He played two seasons in the National Football League for the New York Jets and Indianapolis Colts. During his career he started 6 of 17 games recording two interceptions.

buddyboy
01-14-2011, 01:30 PM
Are we at this place again? AGAIN?

(sigh)

This organization is not about finding "the best guy."

This organization is about hiring friends or past acquaintances they've worked with.

This was a joke of a hiring, and once again...it gets poo-poo'd as being OK. Bob paid Bum's son and so now any subsequent hire is going to be poo-poo'd. All part of the frugality and frailty that is McNair and Kubiak's psyche/emotional state of mind. You know, whatever reduces the trauma of dramatic change and all.

As much as you guys are tired of the anti-establishment rhetoric on here, we're tired of the same old horsecrap and the fans poo-poo'ing it.

I predicted to myself that it wouldn't be long before someone came on here and pulled the "Oh, yeah tough guy? Well who would YOU have chosen?" I mean, that's not even a relevant question. I don't work in the NFL. Had I been employed in the NFL as long as Wade Phillips has, as well as some other Texans personnel have, I would bet my ass that I could try harder at identifying and hiring people than the Texans do. There are tons of colleges who run the 3-4 and have up-and-coming secondary coaches who want to come to the NFL and parlay that into possibly a d-coord job in the NFL. Plenty.

How many people did Denver interview for their job? FIVE. When we hired for d-coord, how many did we interview? One. And a so-called "phone call" to Marvin Lewis, which I suspect is bogus or was at best a cover-up call that had no real teeth to it.

Yeah, we hired the best man for the secondary coaching job. Vance Joseph is about as good as it gets. Geez....

You say you DON'T know any other DB coaches, since you don't work in the NFL. Yet, somehow, you're knowledgeable enough to guarantee us that Bob McNair didn't go out and get the best guy.

The Pencil Neck
01-14-2011, 01:42 PM
Yeah, we hired the best man for the secondary coaching job. Vance Joseph is about as good as it gets. Geez....

If you're a coordinator, you want a guy who knows your system and who knows what you want, a guy that you're not going to have to train.

There may be "better" LB coaches out there than Herring but that was Wade's first choice because Wade has worked with the guy and liked the results. Those "better" LB coaches may not actually be better because they come from a different system and do things differently and it would take time and energy to train them on what Wade wants them to do.

The same holds true for the DB coaches. But in this case, Joseph didn't work directly for Wade, he worked for another guy from Wade's coaching tree who used the same concepts and techniques that Wade did. He comes highly recommended from a guy that Wade trusts.

This isn't Kubiak picking a DB coach for Wade. This is how coaches build their staffs. Across the league.

The questions is:

Is there any pick that would have made you happy? I don't think so. I think you would have found a reason to be pissed off at anyone they hired for this spot because you don't know how to tell a good hire from a bad hire so you're just assuming the hire is bad and finding reasons to support that. If they'd hired a coach from college, you'd have been ticked off that he didn't have any pro experience or something.

I don't know if this guy is any good. That's not up to me. That's up to Wade. It's his job to get this defense turned around. I'm not going to have any emotion on any of the position coaches that he hires. It's just not worth it.

Thorn
01-14-2011, 02:04 PM
I don't know if this guy is any good. That's not up to me. That's up to Wade. It's his job to get this defense turned around. I'm not going to have any emotion on any of the position coaches that he hires. It's just not worth it.

Oh for God's sake. Will you quit trying to be reasonable when the rest of us want to panic? What's this board coming to? :kubepalm:

El Tejano
01-14-2011, 02:31 PM
This.



And this. Seems like a lot of overreacting to this hire.

Thank you. Was just about to agree to the same post.

Also everyone starting to get mad because he was from University of Colorado. Kubiak doesn't draft from that school, he drafts from Colorado St.

GP
01-14-2011, 04:00 PM
You say you DON'T know any other DB coaches, since you don't work in the NFL. Yet, somehow, you're knowledgeable enough to guarantee us that Bob McNair didn't go out and get the best guy.

Based on THIS franchise's track record? You bet your ass I feel that we didn't hire the best secondary coach available.

This isn't my stank. This is Bob McNair's stank. Us fans are just watching it all go down. The Wade Phillips hiring feels as if it's in a vacuum or something, because THIS secondary coach hiring stinks of status quo. Again.

I guess he's such a miracle worker that he can jump Vance Effin' Joseph's stats up to Top 10 levels? Riiiiiiiight.

Tel you what, you want to know who the BEST secondary coach would be for this team? Nnamdi Aso of the Raiders. He plays the position, too. We'd be getting a great CB and a guy who knows what the hell he's doing too. Which is more than Vance Joseph's waived Bronco's ass can ever claim.

Wade Phillips hiring? Probably the best hire in the team's history (other than Kubiak who was hired to be a HEAD COACH but who has only been able to construct a competent offense thus far). And Wade hasn't even done anything here yet.

I give credit where I think it's due. But the poo-poo'ing and the "I'll reserve judgment until I see outcomes" stuff is supreme hilarity to me. Same old song and dance: We're the team that will always be one year out. Always turning that corner. Always battlin', etc., etc.

I give credit to Kubiak for constructing this offense. And I feel Wade can improve the defense. He should have been given a better secondary coach though. All the colorado-based connections with the Vance Effin' Joseph hiring is just too rich for me.

GP
01-14-2011, 04:05 PM
If you're a coordinator, you want a guy who knows your system and who knows what you want, a guy that you're not going to have to train.

There may be "better" LB coaches out there than Herring but that was Wade's first choice because Wade has worked with the guy and liked the results. Those "better" LB coaches may not actually be better because they come from a different system and do things differently and it would take time and energy to train them on what Wade wants them to do.

The same holds true for the DB coaches. But in this case, Joseph didn't work directly for Wade, he worked for another guy from Wade's coaching tree who used the same concepts and techniques that Wade did. He comes highly recommended from a guy that Wade trusts.

This isn't Kubiak picking a DB coach for Wade. This is how coaches build their staffs. Across the league.

The questions is:

Is there any pick that would have made you happy? I don't think so. I think you would have found a reason to be pissed off at anyone they hired for this spot because you don't know how to tell a good hire from a bad hire so you're just assuming the hire is bad and finding reasons to support that. If they'd hired a coach from college, you'd have been ticked off that he didn't have any pro experience or something.

I don't know if this guy is any good. That's not up to me. That's up to Wade. It's his job to get this defense turned around. I'm not going to have any emotion on any of the position coaches that he hires. It's just not worth it.

Untrue on all levels. You are the one guy on here who consistently fails to describe my thought process accurately.

Come on, man. Hiring THIS guy, Vance Joseph, was "THE BEST" we could do? Seriously? (sigh) For crying out loud, how much damn time do we have to hire the secondary coach anyways? What, the players are hitting the field next week for OTA's? What's the freaking rush on it? I don't get it. College ranks are too deep for this hire to have been "THE BEST."

You all know this is the truth. Kick me around all you want. This was a rushed effort, by miles. I'm not sure which is more unacceptable: Vance Joseph the hire, or the speed at which this was done. I guess this is like Fantasy Football and there was a huge run on secondary coaches last week? LOL. Whatev.

thunderkyss
01-14-2011, 05:35 PM
Untrue on all levels. You are the one guy on here who consistently fails to describe my thought process accurately.

Are we supposed to be describing your thought process?

News to me.

Come on, man. Hiring THIS guy, Vance Joseph, was "THE BEST" we could do? Seriously? (sigh) For crying out loud, how much damn time do we have to hire the secondary coach anyways? What, the players are hitting the field next week for OTA's? What's the freaking rush on it? I don't get it.

Even though the players will be taking time off, I doubt our coaching staff will be. They've got a lot of work to do before the draft. Before OTAs...

College ranks are too deep for this hire to have been "THE BEST."

Agree with this 100%.... however, they "asked" around for the best guy, & this guy was highly recommended. I understand his "past history" doesn't look great.... but c'mon he was the DB coach, he probably had no say in how things were run, or which players were picked. The DC tells him this is what I want you to do, do it.

I'm sure someone would have recommended a guy in the college ranks if they thought someone there would be a good fit.

You all know this is the truth. Kick me around all you want. This was a rushed effort, by miles. I'm not sure which is more unacceptable: Vance Joseph the hire, or the speed at which this was done. I guess this is like Fantasy Football and there was a huge run on secondary coaches last week? LOL. Whatev.

:wadepalm:

damn.......

buddyboy
01-14-2011, 05:43 PM
I give credit to Kubiak for constructing this offense. And I feel Wade can improve the defense. He should have been given a better secondary coach though. All the colorado-based connections with the Vance Effin' Joseph hiring is just too rich for me.

Like the PencilNeck said, this hiring was probably something that Wade himself either asked for or endorsed, seeing as this Joseph guy coached under a similar defense that Wade is constructing now.

So all this BS about Wade being a good hire, but the only good hire is nonsense, because I would bet that Wade had a huge say in who exactly was being hired for the DB coach. We all say that Kubiak is best as an OC and Wade should be in charge of pretty much all defense: well, here it is. A DB coach who coached a similar defense as Wade.

Conspiracy theory about Bob McNair and Kubiak plotting behind Wade's back to "give him a secondary coach" who's not up to snuff since he has a Colorado connection is laughable.

TexansFanatic
01-14-2011, 05:45 PM
Vince Joseph's Tenure in San Fran:

49ers Pass D Ranks:

2005 - 32nd
2006 - 26th
2007 - 22nd
2008 - 20th
2009 - 21st
2010 - 24th

Jesus Christ.

Houston_Fanatic
01-14-2011, 05:49 PM
WHO?

Well, I can't name too many DB coaches so not surprised. Hope he is who Wade thinks he is.............. We shall see.

dream_team
01-14-2011, 06:03 PM
BTW, anyone really know what a DB coach does? Does Phillips pretty much hand over the "keys" to the secondary to him? Or does he just relay info Phillips gives him?

In other words, does he teach the DB's his scheme & technique, or Phillip's scheme & technique?

The Pencil Neck
01-14-2011, 06:18 PM
BTW, anyone really know what a DB coach does? Does Phillips pretty much hand over the "keys" to the secondary to him? Or does he just relay info Phillips gives him?

In other words, does he teach the DB's his scheme & technique, or Phillip's scheme & technique?

The scheme is Phillips'.

Phillips will figure out what he wants to do and how he wants to do it. He'll tell Joseph what to teach the players and what their assignments are going to be. Joseph is responsible for the players knowing their assignments, how to line up, as well as the nuts and bolts about how Phillips wants them to actually do their assignments.

That's why it's important that Joseph has already spent several years working in a similar scheme.

At least, that's my understanding.

JB
01-14-2011, 06:32 PM
The scheme is Phillips'.

Phillips will figure out what he wants to do and how he wants to do it. He'll tell Joseph what to teach the players and what their assignments are going to be. Joseph is responsible for the players knowing their assignments, how to line up, as well as the nuts and bolts about how Phillips wants them to actually do their assignments.

That's why it's important that Joseph has already spent several years working in a similar scheme.

At least, that's my understanding.


Actually, I believe it is the same scheme. The DC at SF worked for Wade in SD, and runs the same system, and that is who recommended Joseph.

The Pencil Neck
01-14-2011, 06:39 PM
Actually, I believe it is the same scheme. The DC at SF worked for Wade in SD, and runs the same system, and that is who recommended Joseph.

I figured Manusky had a couple of different wrinkles so I consider it similar (as in, extremely similar) even if Manusky was trying to do the same stuff Wade does.

ArlingtonTexan
01-14-2011, 07:07 PM
Damn, Gary needs new friends.

While you are joking, this is the root of the problem. Plenty of dudes hire guys that they know, but since Kubiak both played and coached in the Broncos system in relative terms, his circle of friends is too small. It is painfully obvious that he is not confortable with guys he does not know realtively well, but he does not know enough guys who did not cross directly (or indirectly like Joseph).

I think also, this ties into has lack of comfort in conducting real multiple candidate interviews. You have be okay with guys thinking and doing things which you are not familiar and be able to discern that what that guy can bring to an organization. This comfort comes from multiple exposures and at the end of the day, he has not been exposed to more than one way of doing things and does not have the pure skills to figure out who is best versus who does things which are familiar.

JB
01-14-2011, 07:10 PM
I figured Manusky had a couple of different wrinkles so I consider it similar (as in, extremely similar) even if Manusky was trying to do the same stuff Wade does.



Gotcha! Point is, he has actually been teaching the coverages that Wade will want to run for a couple of years now. And Wade is going to trust someone who he knows and has worked with a lot more credibility than some fans that have never played the game at that level.

And with his extensive contacts through out the league, and all the different people he has worked with, I think he probably did due diligence in his search.

He probably made a list, checked it twice, and picked the best for the team that he could get at this time.

I'm sure that Gary & Wade want to get the staff settled as soon as possible, just in case there will be football as normal in 2011.

JB
01-14-2011, 07:15 PM
While you are joking, this is the root of the problem. Plenty of dudes hire guys that they know, but since Kubiak both played and coached in the Broncos system in relative terms, his circle of friends is too small. It is painfully obvious that he is not confortable with guys he does not know realtively well, but he does not know enough guys who did not cross directly (or indirectly like Joseph).

I think also, this ties into has lack of comfort in conducting real multiple candidate interviews. You have be okay with guys thinking and doing things which you are not familiar and be able to discern that what that guy can bring to an organization. This comfort comes from multiple exposures and at the end of the day, he has not been exposed to more than one way of doing things and does not have the pure skills to figure out who is best versus who does things which are familiar.


I think you are spot on here. I also think that Wade will be a big boon here for this reason. While they have many of the same friends, Wade has worked with many others in many other circles. Perhaps Kubiak will get exposed to different ways of looking at things.

NitroGSXR
01-14-2011, 07:50 PM
Maybe we'll go after Jack Hines, LB coach at Clemson.

Vance and Hines has a nice sound to it.

Dallas_Texan
01-15-2011, 02:01 AM
And has anyone noticed his Pass Defenses were that bad WITH $80Mil Nate Clements and Taylor Mays?!?! This guy is now going to come to a team with LESS talent. ......awesome.

Maddict5
01-15-2011, 08:18 AM
And has anyone noticed his Pass Defenses were that bad WITH $80Mil Nate Clements and Taylor Mays?!?! This guy is now going to come to a team with LESS talent. ......awesome.

im pretty certain by this post, you havent watched nate clements, taylor mays or sf's secondary lately

Lucky
01-15-2011, 08:29 AM
im pretty certain by this post, you havent watched nate clements, taylor mays or sf's secondary lately
While I believe that Joseph should be judged by the job done here, there's nothing on his résumé that would indicate his ability to turn this horrific secondary around. Or that he can be a "special" coach.

kiwitexansfan
01-15-2011, 08:30 AM
im pretty certain by this post, you havent watched nate clements, taylor mays or sf's secondary lately

But, but, but they were rated well on Madden once and he's heard of them...

Maddict5
01-15-2011, 09:10 AM
While I believe that Joseph should be judged by the job done here, there's nothing on his résumé that would indicate his ability to turn this horrific secondary around. Or that he can be a "special" coach.

while i agree with you on his less than stellar record to date, my post was to refute the supposed talent sf had in their secondary because of a couple names...

im also fairly realistic in that im dont think theres that big a gap between 'good' & 'bad' db coaches. id be pretty certain alot teach similiar techniques in each situation (press, off coverage etc).. its mostly on the players imo that can either execute what they're taught in the pressure of live action or they cant

2slik4u
01-15-2011, 09:33 AM
While I believe that Joseph should be judged by the job done here, there's nothing on his résumé that would indicate his ability to turn this horrific secondary around. Or that he can be a "special" coach.

Unfortunately, Lucky is right. Clements maybe the most overpaid, overrated CB in the game.

Not impressed with this hiring but I'm an optimistic guy.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2011, 10:38 AM
While I believe that Joseph should be judged by the job done here, there's nothing on his résumé that would indicate his ability to turn this horrific secondary around. Or that he can be a "special" coach.

I don't look at a position coach as the guy that's going to turn anything around.

playa465
01-15-2011, 12:22 PM
I don't look at a position coach as the guy that's going to turn anything around.

Bingo!!! What secondary coach gets credit for making a difference that goes noticed to fans or the media. Fans clamored for change and got it...now its "I didnt want that change, I wanted change that I approve of"

Lucky
01-15-2011, 04:12 PM
Bingo!!! What secondary coach gets credit for making a difference that goes noticed to fans or the media. Fans clamored for change and got it...now its "I didnt want that change, I wanted change that I approve of"
This will be Gary Kubiak's 3rd secondary coach. The secondary coach (and other defensive coaches) have received the blame for the Texans failures. Not Kubiak, which is one of the reasons I like to call him Coach Teflon.

So if the secondary and defensive coaches in the past have kept the Texans from winning, then I guess they are pretty important hires. And deserve the scrutiny they are receiving from fans.

BTW, the overwhelming majority of fans were clamoring for more change than the secondary coach. They wanted a new organization. Instead, they received what amounts to a bandaid. Other than Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, and their fans, few got the change they desired.

Last point, this will be Joseph's 1st full season where he was in complete charge of a NFL secondary. Joseph shared the position with long time NFL assistant Johnny Lynn, until Lynn resigned in December of last season.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2011, 05:47 PM
This will be Gary Kubiak's 3rd secondary coach. The secondary coach (and other defensive coaches) have received the blame for the Texans failures. Not Kubiak, which is one of the reasons I like to call him Coach Teflon.

So if the secondary and defensive coaches in the past have kept the Texans from winning, then I guess they are pretty important hires. And deserve the scrutiny they are receiving from fans.

BTW, the overwhelming majority of fans were clamoring for more change than the secondary coach. They wanted a new organization. Instead, they received what amounts to a bandaid. Other than Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, and their fans, few got the change they desired.

Last point, this will be Joseph's 1st full season where he was in complete charge of a NFL secondary. Joseph shared the position with long time NFL assistant Johnny Lynn, until Lynn resigned in December of last season.

The secondary coach's job is to teach the players what they're supposed to do in the Defensive Coordinator's scheme. The secondary coach is supposed to work with the players to get them ready to play... the way that the DC wants them to.

If the secondary coach or any defensive position coach is not doing his job, the DC should have him fired.

The defense's performance is on the DC. The offense's performance is on the OC. And the overall team performance is on the HC.

During Kubiak's tenure, the team has not performed on the defensive side of the ball and that's why we've gone through 2 DCs and a couple of secondary coaches. (I know, I know, we should have fired Kubiak because of his inability to put together a defensive staff by now... I would have fired him now, too... but that's not what we're talking about here.)

Now Wade is our new DC. It's his job to put together a staff that he thinks will put together a good defense. If he hires guys that are bad, that's on him.

The point is that Wade should know more about hiring a secondary coach than you, me, or GP. So for us to get up in arms about this hire is pretty silly because we wouldn't know a good hire from a bad hire. That doesn't mean it's not an important hire, it just means that we have no way to judge how good it was.

thunderkyss
01-15-2011, 06:16 PM
While you are joking, this is the root of the problem. Plenty of dudes hire guys that they know, but since Kubiak both played and coached in the Broncos system in relative terms, his circle of friends is too small. It is painfully obvious that he is not confortable with guys he does not know realtively well, but he does not know enough guys who did not cross directly (or indirectly like Joseph).


Bullshit.......

It's not like Bellichick is holding open auditions for any of his coaching positions. He hired his guys, & he will continue to hire his guys.

The only reason Tod Haley hired Wiess & Crennel, is because he's got a veteran GM who has ties with Wiess & Crennel.

This is nothing new. The NFL is the most inbred organization out there.

Doppelganger
01-15-2011, 06:24 PM
If that course of action produces results, then I'm all for it.

The track record in THIS instance, with this cast of characters, is not the same as Cowher's buddies.

It is true that you can hire people you're comfortable with, but that's a tricky and sometimes sticky situation if it doesn't work out as originally envisioned. It can make it even worse.

Well, Phillips' defenses have been pretty good. I think there is a positive track record there.

Lucky
01-15-2011, 06:46 PM
Bullshit.......

It's not like Bellichick is holding open auditions for any of his coaching positions. He hired his guys, & he will continue to hire his guys.

The more I read from you, the more I realize just how little you know about the NFL. Belichick is famous for giving coaches their initial job or big break in the NFL and training them to become pro coaches.

Kirk Ferentz - (Iowa head coach)
Eric Mangini - (former Jet & Browns head coach)
Nick Saban - (Alabama head coach & 2 time BCS champion)
Jim Schwartz (Lions head coach)
Josh McDaniels (former Broncos head coach)

Belichick has also done a phenomenal job in developing front office/personnel types.

Scott Pioli (Chiefs GM)
Thomas Dimitroff (Falcons GM)
Ozzie Newsome (Ravens GM)

To compare anything Kubiak does to Belichick is asinine. Belichick's hires learn the game and their careers are set for life. Kubiak's hires are destined to be fired. Kubiak is an assistant coach killer.

JB
01-15-2011, 06:55 PM
Kubiak is an assistant coach.


This may be a very true statement. :choke:

thunderkyss
01-15-2011, 09:59 PM
The more I read from you, the more I realize just how little you know about the NFL. Belichick is famous for giving coaches their initial job or big break in the NFL and training them to become pro coaches.

& I question your reading comprehension.

Scott Pioli (Chiefs GM)
Thomas Dimitroff (Falcons GM)
Ozzie Newsome (Ravens GM)

Belichick developed those GMs?

Now I question more than your ability to understand what you read.


To compare anything Kubiak does to Belichick is asinine. Belichick's hires learn the game and their careers are set for life. Kubiak's hires are destined to be fired. Kubiak is an assistant coach killer.

You're hatred for Kubiak is showing. Not one of these statements is correct.
:kubepalm:

Bottom line. From Belichick (arguably the best head coach in the NFL) to Kubiak (arguably the worst) they all hire from a circle of friends. This last hire, however, came from Wade's circle... just like every other Wade hire.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2011, 10:01 PM
The more I read from you, the more I realize just how little you know about the NFL.

I don't think you actually understood what TK was saying. It had nothing to do with what the coaches do AFTER they've worked with Belichick.

Lucky
01-15-2011, 10:30 PM
I don't think you actually understood what TK was saying.
I know exactly what he wrote. He wrote that Belichick hired "his guys". The fact is that Belichick routinely hires young coaches, then coaches them to become good coaches. When they move on, he hires other young coaches. Belichick doesn't have to fear unfamiliarity, because he will be able to teach the assistant what he needs to know.

Kubiak hire guys that he knows. Arlington Texan's point on Kubiak's fear of reaching outside of his coaching circle is 100% accurate, based upon history. The only bullshit was what tk spewed regarding Belichick.

How many coaches has Gary Kubiak had to fire in order to keep his job? Too many. Absolutely, Gary Kubiak is a coach killer.

GP
01-15-2011, 10:34 PM
Like the PencilNeck said, this hiring was probably something that Wade himself either asked for or endorsed, seeing as this Joseph guy coached under a similar defense that Wade is constructing now.

So all this BS about Wade being a good hire, but the only good hire is nonsense, because I would bet that Wade had a huge say in who exactly was being hired for the DB coach. We all say that Kubiak is best as an OC and Wade should be in charge of pretty much all defense: well, here it is. A DB coach who coached a similar defense as Wade.

Conspiracy theory about Bob McNair and Kubiak plotting behind Wade's back to "give him a secondary coach" who's not up to snuff since he has a Colorado connection is laughable.

Conspiracy Theory? No, it's a Reality. No theory need apply here.

Wade wanted Effin' Joseph because he not only runs a 3-4, but they had a "connection" in the past. He's "comfortable" with him. Vance Joseph once played for the Broncos and was waived, which is even more hilarious.

The Friendship Circle is real, not imaginative. I'd rather have Cowher and his buddies, over Kubiak and his buddies, any day of the week.

Staying comfy can get you in some real jams sometimes. If it works out, being a guy who hires buddies, then great. When it isn't working out, though, it isn't so hot.

thunderkyss
01-15-2011, 10:36 PM
Arlington Texan's point on Kubiak's fear of reaching outside of his coaching circle is 100% accurate, based upon history. The only bullshit was what tk spewed regarding Belichick.


Bullshit.

Not one of those hires you mentioned was anymore outside of Belichicks circle than Vance Jones is outside of Kubiak/Wades.

GP
01-15-2011, 10:39 PM
I know exactly what he wrote. He wrote that Belichick hired "his guys". The fact is that Belichick routinely hires young coaches, then coaches them to become good coaches. When they move on, he hires other young coaches. Belichick doesn't have to fear unfamiliarity, because he will be able to teach the assistant what he needs to know.

Kubiak hire guys that he knows. Arlington Texan's point on Kubiak's fear of reaching outside of his coaching circle is 100% accurate, based upon history. The only bullshit was what tk spewed regarding Belichick.

How many coaches has Gary Kubiak had to fire in order to keep his job? Too many. Absolutely, Gary Kubiak is a coach killer.

I read that story in ESPN the magazine. Great story. Lots of details in it.

It essentially said what you are saying: That the Belichick we know now, the one who became so dominant a decade ago, changed how he operates as a coach. After his failures elsewhere, he had to reinvent and recreate himself. He basically killed old ways and habits.

Now, people consider themselves lottery winners if they get the chance to work with Belichick. McDaniels' story was amazing all by itself. The problem, however, is that all these successful assistants and other coordinators who have gone on to the NFL have not necessarily been AS successful due to them not being original. They're trying to be Bill Belichick.

Winners are winners. Losers are losers, until they do different things that make them winners. I don't hate Kubiak because he was an Aggie. I don't dislike him because he is a former Bronco, and not even because he was only a backup and never a starting QB. I don't care for him because my team is not being totally transformed by him. And 5 years is a long time in today's NFL. I don't see the total transformation I desire.

Maybe he finds his way, though. I doubt it.

The Pencil Neck
01-15-2011, 10:55 PM
I know exactly what he wrote. He wrote that Belichick hired "his guys". The fact is that Belichick routinely hires young coaches, then coaches them to become good coaches. When they move on, he hires other young coaches. Belichick doesn't have to fear unfamiliarity, because he will be able to teach the assistant what he needs to know.

Kubiak hire guys that he knows. Arlington Texan's point on Kubiak's fear of reaching outside of his coaching circle is 100% accurate, based upon history. The only bullshit was what tk spewed regarding Belichick.

How many coaches has Gary Kubiak had to fire in order to keep his job? Too many. Absolutely, Gary Kubiak is a coach killer.

Come on, man. Get freaking serious.

Eric Mangini was a ball boy with the freaking Browns. Belichick liked him and hired him to do public relations and then made him an offensive assistant. Mangini went to the Ravens as an assistant for a year. When Belichick went to the Jets as a DC for Parcells, he brought Mangini in as a defensive assistant because he was one of "his guys." Then when Belichick went to the Patriots, he brought Mangini in to be his defensive backs coach... because he was "his guy."

When Belichick went to the Patriots, he hired Romeo Crennel as his DC. Why? Because he was one of "his guys." They'd worked together for several seasons under Parcells at different places. Same thing with Charlie Weiss.

Has Belichick hired some guys that he hadn't worked with before? Yes. But so has Kubiak. Belichick has been doing this longer and is tons more successful but accusing Kubiak of doing something that other guys who are successful do like it's some sort of sin is just wrong.

TEXANRED
01-15-2011, 11:00 PM
Conspiracy Theory? No, it's a Reality. No theory need apply here.

Wade wanted Effin' Joseph because he not only runs a 3-4, but they had a "connection" in the past. He's "comfortable" with him. Vance Joseph once played for the Broncos and was waived, which is even more hilarious.

The Friendship Circle is real, not imaginative. I'd rather have Cowher and his buddies, over Kubiak and his buddies, any day of the week.

Staying comfy can get you in some real jams sometimes. If it works out, being a guy who hires buddies, then great. When it isn't working out, though, it isn't so hot.
Dude drop the Cowher stuff it's over.

Phillips is just as good of a hire as Cowher. The only difference between Cowher and Phillips is Cowher got to play against the Oilers twice a year for 15 years, a blown super bowl against Dallas, Dan Wheeler torching his defense in the last 5 seconds of an AFC championship game, and a Super bowl bought and sold against the Seahawks.

Cowher had walked in to a winning organization that had player after player after player already set to take over if the guy in front of them fell where as Phillips continued to coach for teams owned by one douche after another. Bills, Broncos, Cowboys, not even in the same class as the Steelers.

And I am not the only one who knows that either. You know who else knows that? Bill Cowher. Why do you think he is scared to come out and coach again? He knew what he had in Pittsburgh. Put Cowher in Detroit and watch him fail there.

I will take Phillips any day of the week and twice on Sundays. All he has done every place he has gone is win and be successful. Give me the guy who has traveled from team to team building from the ground up. Phillips is perfect. And, Phillips just very well be our next HC if Kubiak mucks this up.

Of course that is all just my opinion so TIFWIF.

Texan4Ever
01-15-2011, 11:13 PM
As long as our new DB coach teaches the kids to peddle backwards instead of the shuffling thing we should be okay.

DX-TEX
01-15-2011, 11:17 PM
Dude drop the Cowher stuff it's over.

Phillips is just as good of a hire as Cowher. The only difference between Cowher and Phillips is Cowher got to play against the Oilers twice a year for 15 years, a blown super bowl against Dallas, Dan Wheeler torching his defense in the last 5 seconds of an AFC championship game, and a Super bowl bought and sold against the Seahawks.

Cowher had walked in to a winning organization that had player after player after player already set to take over if the guy in front of them fell where as Phillips continued to coach for teams owned by one douche after another. Bills, Broncos, Cowboys, not even in the same class as the Steelers.

And I am not the only one who knows that either. You know who else knows that? Bill Cowher. Why do you think he is scared to come out and coach again? He knew what he had in Pittsburgh. Put Cowher in Detroit and watch him fail there.

I will take Phillips any day of the week and twice on Sundays. All he has done every place he has gone is win and be successful. Give me the guy who has traveled from team to team building from the ground up. Phillips is perfect. And, Phillips just very well be our next HC if Kubiak mucks this up.

Of course that is all just my opinion so TIFWIF.

Wow! Good post. Seriously makes me want to start up the Texans Cycle now.

GP
01-16-2011, 02:06 PM
Come on, man. Get freaking serious.

Eric Mangini was a ball boy with the freaking Browns. Belichick liked him and hired him to do public relations and then made him an offensive assistant. Mangini went to the Ravens as an assistant for a year. When Belichick went to the Jets as a DC for Parcells, he brought Mangini in as a defensive assistant because he was one of "his guys." Then when Belichick went to the Patriots, he brought Mangini in to be his defensive backs coach... because he was "his guy."

When Belichick went to the Patriots, he hired Romeo Crennel as his DC. Why? Because he was one of "his guys." They'd worked together for several seasons under Parcells at different places. Same thing with Charlie Weiss.

Has Belichick hired some guys that he hadn't worked with before? Yes. But so has Kubiak. Belichick has been doing this longer and is tons more successful but accusing Kubiak of doing something that other guys who are successful do like it's some sort of sin is just wrong.

All of those "guys" did more for Belichick than Kubiak's "guys" are doing for him. I think Kyle Shanahan was the cream of the Kubiak crop. And that's being generous.

It's a death wish to be on Kubiak's short list.

Therefore, as you continue to blatantly ignore in this thread, there is (as we can all agree upon) no sin in hiring friends. The sin, then, is when the friendship hiring doesn't yield results. That's when it's time to look outside the Kubiak Circle of Trust. Time to gravitate towards looking for the best talent and not the "cozy, familiar friend of days gone by."

GP
01-16-2011, 02:10 PM
It stands a chance of working. I won't say it doesn't.

It's just that we've been down this road before. Nothing new that suggests a different outcome, in my opinion. Wade Phillips has his job cut out for him.

NitroGSXR
01-16-2011, 02:17 PM
It stands a chance of working. I won't say it doesn't.

It's just that we've been down this road before. Nothing new that suggests a different outcome, in my opinion. Wade Phillips has his job cut out for him.

Would you at least agree that Wade Phillips has a more favorable "circle of friends" than Kubiak?

thunderkyss
01-16-2011, 03:16 PM
It stands a chance of working. I won't say it doesn't.

It's just that we've been down this road before. Nothing new that suggests a different outcome, in my opinion. Wade Phillips has his job cut out for him.

Except Vance has no ties to Kubiak. He's from Wade's circle.

Wade is also not from Kubiak's circle. Wade is McNair's, " I should fire you but I don't have the gnads, instead I'll make a hire you have repeatedly shown to be too incompetent to make." hire.

whiskeyrbl
01-16-2011, 04:19 PM
I can't believe that we hired a coach that never played DB until his first year in the NFL.. We need experienced coaches/players to teach our young talent..

Hopefully we can get Champ Bailey and we will have a DB's coach on the field. LOL

GP
01-17-2011, 10:14 AM
Would you at least agree that Wade Phillips has a more favorable "circle of friends" than Kubiak?

Possibly.

GP
01-17-2011, 10:24 AM
Except Vance has no ties to Kubiak. He's from Wade's circle.

Wade is also not from Kubiak's circle. Wade is McNair's, " I should fire you but I don't have the gnads, instead I'll make a hire you have repeatedly shown to be too incompetent to make." hire.

Wade and Kubiak were in Denver.

This is like that Kevin Bacon game where you can connect any actor/actress/director to Kevin Bacon in like 6 moves or less.

Six Degrees of Denver. It all connects to Denver in six moves or less. Might even be a Three Degrees of Denver, for that matter. Only need three connections to get it back to Denver.

infantrycak
01-17-2011, 11:12 AM
Wade and Kubiak were in Denver.

Kubiak and Wade were only in Denver for Kubiak's last couple seasons as a player. Seriously doubt Wade spent a lot of time with the backup QB.

GP
01-17-2011, 11:16 AM
Kubiak and Wade were only in Denver for Kubiak's last couple seasons as a player. Seriously doubt Wade spent a lot of time with the backup QB.

I was coming at it from the angle of Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Connect everything back to Denver in six moves or less.

Six Degrees of Denver. Though I think it could be Three Degrees of Denver.

thunderkyss
01-17-2011, 11:37 AM
I was coming at it from the angle of Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Connect everything back to Denver in six moves or less.

Six Degrees of Denver. Though I think it could be Three Degrees of Denver.

Maybe..... but I think it's more than a Denver connection.

Check out McNair's connection to Dan Reeves. I think it all starts there.

GP
01-17-2011, 11:45 AM
Maybe..... but I think it's more than a Denver connection.

Check out McNair's connection to Dan Reeves. I think it all starts there.

Ah, so it should be Dan Reeves?

Interesting. I can dig it.

The Pencil Neck
01-17-2011, 09:14 PM
All of those "guys" did more for Belichick than Kubiak's "guys" are doing for him. I think Kyle Shanahan was the cream of the Kubiak crop. And that's being generous.

It's a death wish to be on Kubiak's short list.

Therefore, as you continue to blatantly ignore in this thread, there is (as we can all agree upon) no sin in hiring friends. The sin, then, is when the friendship hiring doesn't yield results. That's when it's time to look outside the Kubiak Circle of Trust. Time to gravitate towards looking for the best talent and not the "cozy, familiar friend of days gone by."

Which was my point.

It's no sin to hire friends. Everyone does it. But the bottom line is being successful and hiring people who help you be successful.

Kubiak hasn't been good at that so far (at least, not on the defensive side). Hopefully, the Wade hire changes that.