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Double Barrel
01-12-2011, 11:34 AM
New Broncos organization reaching out in unique ways

When the Denver Broncos recently announced the hire of former all-time quarterback John Elway as their new executive vice president of football operations, it marked an entirely new way of doing things than we had seen under the ineffectively secretive Josh McDaniels or in the history of the NFL.

All of a sudden, Elway popped up on Twitter, announcing everything from the names of new potential head coach candidates to his thoughts on the future of quarterback Tim Tebow(notes). It's been refreshing for fans, and a look in the eye to those NFL organizations who believe that CIA-level confidentiality must accompany every single move they make -- down to a change in the brand of bathroom tissue in the coach's office lavatory.

Now, Elway and his team have upped the ante when it comes to giving the fans an inside view. They've posted snippets of the pre-interviews with current interim coach Eric Studesville and New York Giants defensive coordinator Perry Fewell. The linked videos give unique insight into the thought processes of the men interviewing to become Denver's newest head coach. One has to wonder if Rick Dennison and John Fox, who are expected to interview by Wednesday, will do their own videos, but the signs are good -- Elway told the fans via his Twitter account just exactly why Fox's interview was delayed.

Full story (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/New-Broncos-organization-reaching-out-in-differe?urn=nfl-306025)

Interesting concept. Since the Texans have tended to be Denver South, I wonder if any of this apparent transparency will rub off.

GP
01-12-2011, 12:15 PM
Wow!!!!

See, this is the type of thing I want from my team: Transparency that tells me I'm in on the deal.

Instead, it's like: Hey, ummm...here it is. Enjoy it!

This concept by Elway is awesome. It completely reverses a negative tone that McDaniels portrayed (the I'm Smarter Than Everyone Else ploy). This is going to win over the fans and give them a sense of normalcy and a sense of community.

On the other side, you've got the so-called CIA-style mafia here in Houston...acting like you only need to know what they tell you to know. It offends this fan. I'm growing tired of it. Just talk plainly, shoot me the straight poop on things. I'll have more grace for my team's failure if I'm just not treated like a child who should leave things to the big boys.

Good for Broncos fans. Success or not, they at least will be treated to a better fan experience by being allowed to be "in on the deal" rather than told to eat it and like it.

Double Barrel
01-12-2011, 12:37 PM
I think the Texans are less "CIA" and more about being driven by a marketing-filter. It's been that way since the beginning of the franchise.

OzzO
01-12-2011, 12:49 PM
Texans "twits".....

"We're gonna act like we're interviewing numerous DC's, but Wade's already in my office..."

"Called Marvin Lewis to see what's up, he hung up on us."

"Cushing is MASSIVE at USC - he must train alot... we like him"

"McNair: well, Capers as a 2nd time head coach didn't work out, maybe I oughta go younger and find a coordinator...."

"McNair: I wonder if I can flick a peanut from my skybox into Capers open mouth on the sidelines..."





.... but yeah, it'd be cool to have a little more inside information.

HOU-TEX
01-12-2011, 01:35 PM
Texans "twits".....

"We're gonna act like we're interviewing numerous DC's, but Wade's already in my office..."

"Called Marvin Lewis to see what's up, he hung up on us."

"Cushing is MASSIVE at USC - he must train alot... we like him"

"McNair: well, Capers as a 2nd time head coach didn't work out, maybe I oughta go younger and find a coordinator...."

"McNair: I wonder if I can flick a peanut from my skybox into Capers open mouth on the sidelines..."





.... but yeah, it'd be cool to have a little more inside information.

+Rep. Nice

El Tejano
01-12-2011, 01:56 PM
Perhaps Elway's experience in the AFL has helped him go this route. I wanna see how this works if they end up making the wrong moves though.

mattieuk
01-12-2011, 03:37 PM
Perhaps Elway's experience in the AFL has helped him go this route. I wanna see how this works if they end up making the wrong moves though.

Spot on. The fans will only use stuff like this as ammunition against the decision makers.

If Bob tweeted what was going on everyday, you think people would love him? Nope - it'd just give more fire to scream at him.

And if you are winning - well who cares what you know and don't know!

The Pencil Neck
01-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Wow!!!!

See, this is the type of thing I want from my team: Transparency that tells me I'm in on the deal.

Instead, it's like: Hey, ummm...here it is. Enjoy it!

This concept by Elway is awesome. It completely reverses a negative tone that McDaniels portrayed (the I'm Smarter Than Everyone Else ploy). This is going to win over the fans and give them a sense of normalcy and a sense of community.

On the other side, you've got the so-called CIA-style mafia here in Houston...acting like you only need to know what they tell you to know. It offends this fan. I'm growing tired of it. Just talk plainly, shoot me the straight poop on things. I'll have more grace for my team's failure if I'm just not treated like a child who should leave things to the big boys.

Good for Broncos fans. Success or not, they at least will be treated to a better fan experience by being allowed to be "in on the deal" rather than told to eat it and like it.

I don't want my team broadcasting their thoughts and intentions to the rest of the league. I prefer a team that plays it smart like the Pats and the Eagles. I prefer a team with boring press conferences that don't really tell you anything. I prefer sleight of hand and jedi mind-tricks.

infantrycak
01-12-2011, 03:45 PM
I don't want my team broadcasting their thoughts and intentions to the rest of the league. I prefer a team that plays it smart like the Pats and the Eagles. I prefer a team with boring press conferences that don't really tell you anything. I prefer sleight of hand and jedi mind-tricks.

Exactly. Who do folks hold up as the best franchises around? - New England and Pittsburgh. You hear jack from them.

Double Barrel
01-12-2011, 03:56 PM
I don't want my team broadcasting their thoughts and intentions to the rest of the league. I prefer a team that plays it smart like the Pats and the Eagles. I prefer a team with boring press conferences that don't really tell you anything. I prefer sleight of hand and jedi mind-tricks.

I'm cool with that, too. But, there was absolutely no tactical advantage in some of the things the Texans pull, going all the way back to Boselli.

Bob should just man up and tell fans that Gary is his guy and he's going to keep him until he figures it out and wins. But, it will never happen because of the marketing filter.

Many aspect of operations should be secret, without a doubt. But no way does everything need to be treated that way, which is sort of the point of the article. JMO

ChampionTexan
01-12-2011, 03:59 PM
I'm cool with that, too. But, there was absolutely no tactical advantage in some of the things the Texans pull, going all the way back to Boselli.

Bob should just man up and tell fans that Gary is his guy and he's going to keep him until he figures it out and wins. But, it will never happen because of the marketing filter.

Many aspect of operations should be secret, without a doubt. But no way does everything need to be treated that way, which is sort of the point of the article. JMO

So just out of curiosity, do you believe Gary is going into next season genuinely believing his job is safe for the 2012 season regardless of the team's performance in the 2011 season (assuming there is one)?

infantrycak
01-12-2011, 04:27 PM
I'm cool with that, too. But, there was absolutely no tactical advantage in some of the things the Texans pull, going all the way back to Boselli.

What did the Texans do wrong with Boselli? Sometimes shit just doesn't work out.

CloakNNNdagger
01-12-2011, 06:53 PM
Wouldn't it be nice to have more transparency in our organization?

January 12th, 2011
The Josh McDaniels era in Denver was one of secrecy, where the doors were closed tighter than the Soviet Union’s during the Cold War.

But with a new regime comes new methods and new Vice President of Football Operations John Elway is opening things up in a Glasnost-like manner.

Elway started a Twitter page after being hired and has kept his more than 35,000 followers apprised of the team’s head coaching search and even squashing rumors that the team is shopping Tim Tebow.

“Any speculation that the Denver Broncos are considering moving Tim is completely false,” Elway posted on Saturday.

He has also posted what coaches were being considered for interviews and even which coaches have removed their names from consideration, such as Mike Mularkey and Gregg Williams.

Elway seems to be committed to bringing the fans in closer and attempt to regain the trust of the fans, something he said he would like to do at his introductory press conference, but who knew the team would go to these lengths.

“This is first time that having been in the community, of hearing Broncos fans wondering what was going on over there at Dove Valley. I will tell you this — (Broncos owner Pat Bowlen) has bestowed (this) on me to make sure that we never lose that connection,” Elway said last week.

Elway has also posted updates about the upcoming interview with John Fox, which was delayed two days due to weather in North Carolina and even asked his followers what they would ask if they were conducting the interviews.

Another interesting thing the Broncos are doing is posting videos of a pre interview with head coaching candidates on the team’s website. This gives fans a chance to hear the next potential head coach speak on camera briefly before meeting with Elway, team President Joe Ellis and the rest of the interviewing staff.

So far, interviews with interim head coach Eric Studesville, Giants defensive coordinator Perry Fewell, Houston Texans offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and Jacksonville offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter have been uploaded and can be seen at www.denverbroncos.com.

The fans already seem to have responded positively, posting mostly complimentary comments on online articles, such as Doug Farrar’s piece on www.yahoo.com.

So while Glasnost may not have led to a long-lasting Soviet Union, this new era of openness and transparency in Denver is scratching Broncos fans right where they itch and could build trust for years to come between the team and the fan base.

LINK (http://www.examiner.com/denver-broncos-in-denver/elway-broncos-embark-on-new-era-of-openness)

Meanwhile, Dennison does not seem to be a "shoe in."

CloakNNNdagger
01-12-2011, 08:22 PM
Sorry, DB, missed your original posting of this article.

Hervoyel
01-12-2011, 09:10 PM
Interesting concept. Since the Texans have tended to be Denver South, I wonder if any of this apparent transparency will rub off.


I think that unless the Texans decide that they can somehow use this to get a better financial image of their target demographic and leverage the synergy of this new paradigm in positive marketing spin to generate peak cash flow and "joy-joy feelings" among the fan family they won't even consider trying something like this. After all somebody could say something negative and generate hurtful negativity among the faithful.

Mr. White
01-12-2011, 09:34 PM
I think Elway's probably the best QB ever to put on a uniform. Having said that, I've got some serious doubt as to how well he can run an NFL team. I think it would be pretty cool if he could get them turned around to being a power in their division again.

His new policy isn't all that big of a deal to me one way or the other. Looks to me like he's just trying to keep his fanbase interested in an event that they really have no influence over.

Double Barrel
01-13-2011, 10:53 AM
What did the Texans do wrong with Boselli? Sometimes shit just doesn't work out.

Casserly admitted years later that they pretty much knew that Boselli was never going to play a down for the Texans because of his injuries. The deal was made so Jacksonville would keep both Payne and Walker available in the expansion draft.

Picking an injured player as the very first pick of the Houston Texans because of some backroom deal that also helps a division rival shed some salary cap problems is "shit just doesn't work out"? You can call it what you want, but I call it stupid decision making and disingenuous, because they were happily selling those Boselli jerseys and assuring fans year after year that he was going to eventually play .

I know you like to play devil's advocate, or perhaps you really believe, but not everything this franchise does is defensible from a customer's perspective. JMO, tho'

infantrycak
01-13-2011, 11:05 AM
Casserly admitted years later that they pretty much knew that Boselli was never going to play a down for the Texans because of his injuries. The deal was made so Jacksonville would keep both Payne and Walker available in the expansion draft.

Picking an injured player as the very first pick of the Houston Texans because of some backroom deal that also helps a division rival shed some salary cap problems is "shit just doesn't work out"? You can call it what you want, but I call it stupid decision making and disingenuous, because they were happily selling those Boselli jerseys and assuring fans year after year that he was going to eventually play .

I know you like to play devil's advocate, or perhaps you really believe, but not everything this franchise does is defensible from a customer's perspective. JMO, tho'

Not playing devil's advocate at all but that is not something I have heard and frankly I am skeptical. Boselli and Roaf were both put up for the expansion draft. The NFL insisted on independent physicals. They made Roaf be withdrawn from the expansion draft but passed Boselli. Roaf then got traded and went on to 5-6 straight pro-bowls. In addition, the shoulder that ultimately kept Boselli from playing was not the shoulder which was injured in Jacksonville. The Jags doc said while he was fixing the injured shoulder he could clean up the other shoulder. I really doubt the Texans knew his shoulder that hadn't kept him from playing before was victim to medical malpractice. But I guess you want to believe the Texans docs are seers over those employed by the NFL. If they knew it also does not make sense that they kept him around for two years paying him an egregious amount of money. If they knew that from the beginning they also would have planned for his not being there. Since you are accusing me of defending everything I guess this is where I am supposed to accuse you of attacking everything they do. Not going to do it. I just don't think that is correct.

Double Barrel
01-13-2011, 12:33 PM
Why pick up a player with any existing injury requiring surgery as your FIRST DRAFT PICK? Especially when he had just had surgeries to BOTH shoulders?

I think you're wrong about which shoulder according to direct quotes from Boselli himself (as well as more details in the article about surgery on BOTH shoulders before the expansion draft):

A botched arthroscopic operation on Tony Boselli's left shoulder that should have made him ready to play last summer instead forced him into retirement this week, the former All-Pro tackle told reporters Friday.

-----------------------

said he believes the November 2001 surgery by team doctors with his former team, Jacksonville, was the beginning of the end.

"I have a lot of questions and concerns about how that was handled because my left shoulder was better before I went into surgery than it ever has been since," said Boselli, adding that treatment and a follow-up procedure by Texans team surgeon Dr. Walter Lowe a year ago has helped, but the shoulder hurts "24 hours a day."

Source - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2003/07/18/boselli_reax_ap/)

They knew it was risky (in Casserly's own words), but it was calculated risk because they wanted the other two players.

In order to get those two [Payne and Walker] you had to [B]take the risk on Boselli. That was the deal," Casserly said.

Source - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2003/07/18/boselli_reax_ap/)

And it was a deal between the teams:

The Texans took Boselli in the 2002 expansion draft in an agreement between the two teams that allowed Houston to take defensive linemen Seth Payne and Gary Walker. Although Boselli made the Pro Bowl five times in the six seasons he productively played for the Jaguars, the team let him go when he didn't return after the 2001 campaign, which was cut short by operations on both shoulders, and also because of his large salary.

Source - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2003/07/18/boselli_reax_ap/)

And give me a break about team doctors. Those guys know who signs their paychecks.

Jaguars spokesman Dan Edwards said the comments by Boselli were a surprise to the team.

"I don't think it's ever come up [before]," Edwards said Friday.

Source - SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/news/2003/07/18/boselli_reax_ap/)

This franchise knew Boselli was a risk, but made a deal in order to get two other players. And they gladly gave it a positive spin [IMO] to customers in order to sell more jerseys and keep up the appearance that he was going to be an impact player for the team in spite of obvious evidence revealing otherwise.

This is the transparency (or lack of) that we are talking about here, not revealing state secrets and strategy. Just be honest and quit the bullshit is all many fans are asking from the franchise.

I have no idea what you really believe or not, but the perception I have is that you tend to defend the franchise much more than not. Apologies for that perception because it seems to have struck a nerve, but I could give a rat's ass in any regard if anyone - including you - think I'm "attacking everything they do". With a franchise this obviously inept from the beginning, it's not much effort to do. (They've made some good decisions, but that would be kind of goofy to bring up in a thread of this nature, as it is irrelevant to this specific topic.)

infantrycak
01-13-2011, 12:48 PM
Why pick up a player with any existing injury requiring surgery as your FIRST DRAFT PICK? Especially when he had just had surgeries to BOTH shoulders?

Because he was considered a future hall of famer.

I think you're wrong about which shoulder according to direct quotes from Boselli himself (as well as more details in the article about surgery on BOTH shoulders before the expansion draft):

Those quotes don't say the left shoulder was the one injured. Here:

*
N.F.L.: ROUNDUP; A Hurting Boselli Opts For Surgery
Unable to play any longer with a painful shoulder injury, left tackle Tony Boselli of the Jacksonville Jaguars decided to have surgery that will sideline him for an indefinite period. "It comes to a point where there's a difference between playing hurt and dealing with injury," Boselli said yesterday. "Certain injuries you play with as long as possible. But when it comes to the point where you're not helping yourself or the team, you have to look at other options. " Team doctors will perform arthroscopic surgery on Boselli's right shoulder on Monday.
October 11, 2001

Link (http://www.nytimes.com/keyword/tony-boselli) The left shoulder kept him from playing for us but the right shoulder is the one that was the issue in Jacksonville.

They knew it was risky (in Casserly's own words), but it was calculated risk because they wanted the other two players.

If you had said they knew it was risky I would have agreed with you but you said they knew he would never play and deceived the fans. I knew about the three player deal. Jacksonville was in serious cap hell.

And give me a break about team doctors. Those guys know who signs their paychecks.

What is that even supposed to mean? Yeah the team pays them. You think that makes them more likely to tell the team Boselli would never play than the independent docs? That makes no sense.

I just don't get the big conspiracy or failure on Boselli. Yeah they took a risk. So did Baltimore on what appeared an even greater risk and at the cost of a draft pick on Roaf. Their risk paid off. The Texans' did not. Shit happens.

I have no idea what you really believe or not, but the perception I have is that you tend to defend the franchise much more than not. Apologies for that perception because it seems to have struck a nerve, but I could give a rat's ass in any regard if anyone - including you - think I'm "attacking everything they do".

No nerve. In an era of chicken littles (not referring to you) yeah I probably spend more time defending than attacking. All the attacking is well covered.

PS - I didn't accuse you of attacking everything they do. I said I wasn't going to respond in kind to your assertion.

steelbtexan
01-13-2011, 01:24 PM
Chicken littles LOL

Face it, this team deserves to be attacked for the 9 yrs of ineptitude that they have made the GREAT FANS of the HOUSTON TEXANS suffer through.

Starting with the hiring of Casserly and the drafting of Boselli.

To the Kubiak extension that he didn"t earn and trotting out Bum and Dante to get the heat off McNair so that he wouldn't have to pay off his mistake of giving Kubiak an extention.

I wouldn't be suprised to learn that hiring Wade was payback for Bum taking the heat off bungling BoB. This may work out for the Texans if they get lucky. Wade is the 2nd best asst.coach the Texans have ever hired/paid. (Gibbs)

So maybe the defense will get better and can help overcome the ineptitude of the Smithiak regime.

We fans should be able to tell if BoB is serious about improving his team after FA/Draft.

But so far in their history the Texans haven't gotten the critizisim that they deserve for the horrible product that they trot out on the field for the last 9 yrs.

infantrycak
01-13-2011, 01:34 PM
Chicken littles LOL

To be clear I am not referring to anyone with criticism of the Texans. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms. I am referring to folks who are going around and defining as a bad decision anything the Texans have done. Like folks who say the Texans' build through the draft strategy is stupid and in the same breath say the Texans should be like Pittsburgh and New England...who build through the draft. The legitimate criticism is they have missed on too many draft picks and that's why I wanted Smith fired.

thunderkyss
01-13-2011, 02:51 PM
I'm cool with that, too. But, there was absolutely no tactical advantage in some of the things the Texans pull, going all the way back to Boselli.

What did the Texans do wrong with Boselli? Sometimes shit just doesn't work out.

Casserly admitted years later that they knew...

.....I just don't think that is correct.

Why pick up a player with any existing injury requiring surgery ...

Because he was considered a future hall of famer.


:popcorn:

Dutchrudder
01-13-2011, 03:13 PM
Hate to break up the walk down memory lane, but the Bronco's got their guy.

Broncos hire John Fox

The Denver Broncos have announced that John Fox is the new coach of the franchise.

Terms of his contact weren't revealed, but Fox beat out Houston Texans offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and Jacksonville Jaguars offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter, who were in the final three.

Fox interviewed with the Broncos and John Elway on Wednesday after his flight out of North Carolina was delayed three times this week by winter weather.

The Broncos are coming off a franchise-worst 4-12 season.

Fox's contract wasn't renewed by the Panthers following an NFL-worst 2-14 season. He was the fifth candidate the Broncos have interviewed to replace Josh McDaniels, who was fired Dec. 6 amid the team's worst slide in four decades and the embarrassing Spygate II videotaping scandal.

Fox, 55, spent the last nine seasons as Carolina's coach, going 73-71 and winning five of eight games in three trips to the playoffs. The Panthers were coming off a 1-15 season when he took over in 2002 and led them to a 7-9 mark in his first year before guiding them to the Super Bowl in his second season.

GP
01-13-2011, 03:23 PM
To be clear I am not referring to anyone with criticism of the Texans. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms. I am referring to folks who are going around and defining as a bad decision anything the Texans have done. Like folks who say the Texans' build through the draft strategy is stupid and in the same breath say the Texans should be like Pittsburgh and New England...who build through the draft. The legitimate criticism is they have missed on too many draft picks and that's why I wanted Smith fired.

You're leaving "coaching" out of the equation here.

A pretty good common denominator with those consistently good teams.

It's the whole mix. Plus, if you are blessed enough to have assembled a great team (from the top, down), you're going to be drafting as one of the last teams in the draft. Which means you're drafting at essentially the top of the second round, which means you get to grab perhaps the 33rd best player left on the whole board. If you gots, you gonna' gets more.

Maintaining something well-built is much easier than maintaining a piece of crap that needs duct-tape and bailing wire every year. Fact. I watched my dad, on our farm, skimp on what he spent and ended up paying for it later on down the road. It's bad mojo to short-change yourself on equipment that you need to perform a job. And the Texans have proven that theory, in terms of coaches. They end up paying for it, in the end. There's no escaping it.

And Gary Kubiak is as much responsible for the state of the draft picks and free agent acquisitions as Rick Smith is. It's Gary's team. He's the game day coach. He's not going to put forth something that he doesn't want. If the man's job was saved thus far, considering all the ineptitude surrounding him, you gotta' think that Bob McNair isn't just forcing Rick Smith onto him. I believe Gary is as much to blame as Rick is. IMO, they can co-sign their track record.

infantrycak
01-13-2011, 03:53 PM
You're leaving "coaching" out of the equation here.

No I am not.

HOU-TEX
01-13-2011, 03:57 PM
You're leaving "coaching" out of the equation here.

A pretty good common denominator with those consistently good teams.

It's the whole mix. Plus, if you are blessed enough to have assembled a great team (from the top, down), you're going to be drafting as one of the last teams in the draft. Which means you're drafting at essentially the top of the second round, which means you get to grab perhaps the 33rd best player left on the whole board. If you gots, you gonna' gets more.

Maintaining something well-built is much easier than maintaining a piece of crap that needs duct-tape and bailing wire every year. Fact. I watched my dad, on our farm, skimp on what he spent and ended up paying for it later on down the road. It's bad mojo to short-change yourself on equipment that you need to perform a job. And the Texans have proven that theory, in terms of coaches. They end up paying for it, in the end. There's no escaping it.

And Gary Kubiak is as much responsible for the state of the draft picks and free agent acquisitions as Rick Smith is. It's Gary's team. He's the game day coach. He's not going to put forth something that he doesn't want. If the man's job was saved thus far, considering all the ineptitude surrounding him, you gotta' think that Bob McNair isn't just forcing Rick Smith onto him. I believe Gary is as much to blame as Rick is. IMO, they can co-sign their track record.

Do you type like 200 words a minute or something? Dadgum, I'd have arthritis in my hand if I typed as much as you do. No offense or anything, just curious

thunderkyss
01-13-2011, 04:02 PM
Hate to break up the walk down memory lane, but the Bronco's got their guy.
Terms of his contact weren't revealed, but Fox beat out Houston Texans offensive coordinator Rick Dennison and Jacksonville Jaguars offensive coordinator Dirk Koetter, who were in the final three.
Broncos hire John Fox

Those freak'n secretive suns of custard........


wait.... maybe Elway will tweet the details.

:kitten:

Double Barrel
01-13-2011, 04:49 PM
Because he was considered a future hall of famer.

C'mon, man, that's a specious argument. Dude had operations on both shoulders before the draft. He was broken, but the Texans wanted Payne and Walker and the only way that they could obtain both would be to take a deal including Boselli.

If you mean that they wanted to draft a a future hall of famer for marketing purposes, then I could agree. But from a football operations perspective, it was just stupid to use that high of a pick on a broken player in a high risk deal that helps a division rival get out off salary cap hell.

Those quotes don't say the left shoulder was the one injured. Here:

Link (http://www.nytimes.com/keyword/tony-boselli) The left shoulder kept him from playing for us but the right shoulder is the one that was the issue in Jacksonville.

The quotes said BOTH shoulders were operated on before the expansion draft. So I would understand that both were injured if they both required surgeries.

If you had said they knew it was risky I would have agreed with you but you said they knew he would never play and deceived the fans. I knew about the three player deal. Jacksonville was in serious cap hell.

There is a video interview with Charlie Casserly in the past couple of years where he said they knew it was a big risk to pick up Boselli because there was a high percentage chance that he would never play, but they said it was a risk they decided to take because they wanted the other two players.

I will try to locate a copy of that interview, but honestly, I'm not even sure where to begin looking for it.

It was a high risk gamble and they lost. Obviously, it begs the question of why take such a high risk gamble on your first pick, but perhaps that can be reasoned away as 1) noob decisions 2) Casserly is not all that 3) they really, really wanted Payne & Walker.

Fine, but why not be honest with fans about it? You know, transparency? This is the entire point of this discussion, not why they picked him.

As far as deceiving the fans, I think it's just marketing and the happy, shiny spin that this franchise likes to slather over bad news to protect their glossy image.

I just don't get the big conspiracy or failure on Boselli. Yeah they took a risk. So did Baltimore on what appeared an even greater risk and at the cost of a draft pick on Roaf. Their risk paid off. The Texans' did not. Shit happens.

It's not a conspiracy, but rather the way this franchise operates. They simply do not like to have any negativity associated with their business, so they probably don't even view it as deceitful as much as they see it as marketing strategy.

I think the difference is that I don't think it was sinister, but just the way that they operate as a large corporation that is highly sensitive of protecting their image that they have spent large sums of money to create and develop.

No nerve. In an era of chicken littles (not referring to you) yeah I probably spend more time defending than attacking. All the attacking is well covered.

PS - I didn't accuse you of attacking everything they do. I said I wasn't going to respond in kind to your assertion.

Well, to be honest, I regret making that statement and I apologize for bringing it up. I know that you're not a blind homer defending every decision for this organization, and I should not have implied it.

I don't attack everything that this franchise does, but they are clearly at a consistent level of ineptness 9 years into it that I believe that criticisms of fundamental aspects of their operations are warranted (and deserved).

I've got no problem agreeing to disagree about Boselli, and I have no problem in changing my perspective as evidence allows. But, nothing that I've read so far indicates that they were naive going into that deal, and interviews with Casserly reveal to me that they knew a lot more than they ever let on at the time.

Texans' Boselli out for season (http://cjonline.com/stories/101602/spo_boselli.shtml)

The Houston Texans placed Boselli on injured reserve Tuesday, giving up hope that the five-time Pro Bowl offensive tackle will recover this season from three shoulder operations in the past year.

--------------------

Boselli played in three games for the Jacksonville Jaguars last season before injuries to both shoulders sidelined him for the season.

--------------------

The team physician, Dr. Walter Lowe, thinks Boselli has plenty of football left.

"I don't even want to have that talk today," Lowe said. "I think Tony believes he'll play again. I believe he'll play again.

"We have a ways to go to get to that point."

Spin it, Texans! He retired less than a year later.

NitroGSXR
01-13-2011, 05:00 PM
Why pick up a player with any existing injury requiring surgery as your FIRST DRAFT PICK? Especially when he had just had surgeries to BOTH shoulders?

I think you're wrong about which shoulder according to direct quotes from Boselli himself (as well as more details in the article about surgery on BOTH shoulders before the expansion draft):



They knew it was risky (in Casserly's own words), but it was calculated risk because they wanted the other two players.



And it was a deal between the teams:



And give me a break about team doctors. Those guys know who signs their paychecks.



This franchise knew Boselli was a risk, but made a deal in order to get two other players. And they gladly gave it a positive spin [IMO] to customers in order to sell more jerseys and keep up the appearance that he was going to be an impact player for the team in spite of obvious evidence revealing otherwise.

This is the transparency (or lack of) that we are talking about here, not revealing state secrets and strategy. Just be honest and quit the bullshit is all many fans are asking from the franchise.

I have no idea what you really believe or not, but the perception I have is that you tend to defend the franchise much more than not. Apologies for that perception because it seems to have struck a nerve, but I could give a rat's ass in any regard if anyone - including you - think I'm "attacking everything they do". With a franchise this obviously inept from the beginning, it's not much effort to do. (They've made some good decisions, but that would be kind of goofy to bring up in a thread of this nature, as it is irrelevant to this specific topic.)

I'm curious about the "botched" surgery aspect. So if Bosseli is claiming that this botched surgery ended his career... if so... I would presume there be a malpractice suit of some kind. If so, would this be public record?

infantrycak
01-13-2011, 05:38 PM
I'm curious about the "botched" surgery aspect. So if Bosseli is claiming that this botched surgery ended his career... if so... I would presume there be a malpractice suit of some kind. If so, would this be public record?

Shortly after he retired he was asked and he said he thought it was malpractice but it wasn't his nature to sue (plus he had a huge bank account).

JB
01-13-2011, 05:49 PM
Shortly after he retired he was asked and he said he thought it was malpractice but it wasn't his nature to sue (plus he had a huge bank account).

And he did testify in another former Jag's malpractice suit... (Novak?)

GP
01-13-2011, 08:44 PM
Do you type like 200 words a minute or something? Dadgum, I'd have arthritis in my hand if I typed as much as you do. No offense or anything, just curious

I just never have cared for the one-sentence post.

I mean, if you have ideas and want to have a discussion, it takes a little more than one line responses.

I have been trying to cut down on how much I type on here, though. The things I am most passionate about, I type the most about. Habit.

For instance: In the thread about hiring the 49ers' secondary coach, I wanted to type a long post about it. I chose to trim it down by a whole bunch. I had a lot of anger to share on that hiring, but tried very hard to slow down and take deep breaths. I think I succeeded. Baby steps....

(LOL. Most of the time, I notice that my posts end up being exactly four paragraphs, like this one. Weird. I'm not aiming for it, but I always count them when I'm about to hit submit. This one was four paragraphs. If I were in the mafia, I'd want my nickname to be Tommy "Four Lines."

GP
01-13-2011, 08:55 PM
Shortly after he retired he was asked and he said he thought it was malpractice but it wasn't his nature to sue (plus he had a huge bank account).

Wow. That really pokes a pretty big hole in your argument then.

A "thought" that never materialized into an actual lawsuit. How much of his "not in my nature to sue" is really "not in his nature to sue" and how much is "didn't have a leg to stand upon in the courtroom"?

Because if his shoulders (plural) were, indeed, already tangled up and jacked pretty badly when he had the surgery...then wouldn't it be harder to claim malpractice for a surgery that wasn't successful? It's not like they operated on the healthy shoulder and screwed it up, if what DB is saying is true (which is sounds true to me). They were trying to repair a bad shoulder and it didn't take as expected. Shit happens.

But the main point here, as DB has pointed out, which has now come full circle, is this: Just saying some stuff, up front and at the beginning, even if it's worded carefully, goes a long way to build up some equity for later down the road.

At this point, I don't care if Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak tell me that Vance Joseph is "The Next Big Thing" in the fine art of secondary coaching. Because I'm already conditioned to NOT believe them. I won't ever go watch any of the videos at the official board where they interview coaches or Rick Smith. And have been this way for years now. Not worth it. It's all B.S. and spin. They don't even know they're B.S.'ing us it's become such a habit of theirs.

It's the organizational culture there. I applaud Elway for at least thinking, "Damn...we probably could do ourselves a favor by opening this up and showing the fans they're in on the deal here." Especially after Josh McDaniels and the way he acted.

Right now, due to our non-success in the W-L column and lack of post-season play, I don't really care to be B.S.'d anymore by the Texans and some of the fans. Save that shit for when we're beating people's brains out on Sundays and steamrolling through the playoffs.

There's a time and place for playing your cards close to your chest. And there's a time and place to be honest and let people see what you're holding. There's a way to use both tactics, at the right time, and still win off it.

The Pencil Neck
01-13-2011, 09:56 PM
I just never have cared for the one-sentence post.

I mean, if you have ideas and want to have a discussion, it takes a little more than one line responses.

It's all about communication. If you've got a big message with a lot of words, a lot of people won't even bother reading more than the first sentence or two unless they're in an actual argument with you.

So being concise is generally better in a forum like this.

(Not that I don't get out of hand and post blockbuster responses, too.)

DexmanC
01-13-2011, 11:20 PM
Interesting concept. Since the Texans have tended to be Denver South, I wonder if any of this apparent transparency will rub off.

This organization sells out games by LYING. If they ever became transparent,
the marketing department would lose its magic, baby!

GP
01-14-2011, 08:59 AM
It's all about communication. If you've got a big message with a lot of words, a lot of people won't even bother reading more than the first sentence or two unless they're in an actual argument with you.

So being concise is generally better in a forum like this.

(Not that I don't get out of hand and post blockbuster responses, too.)

True.

I did it! I really did it! I'm sailing!

infantrycak
01-14-2011, 09:23 AM
Wow. That really pokes a pretty big hole in your argument then.

No that would simply be you jumping off a bridge into an overly long post as usual.

HOU-TEX
01-14-2011, 09:32 AM
It's all about communication. If you've got a big message with a lot of words, a lot of people won't even bother reading more than the first sentence or two unless they're in an actual argument with you.

So being concise is generally better in a forum like this.

(Not that I don't get out of hand and post blockbuster responses, too.)

Which I can admit I'm guilty of. Most of the time I'm working and tend to swoop through TT when time permits, which is obviously quite often. Plus, if a poster has a history of basically saying the same thing over and over again, I tend to steer clear most of the time.

GP
01-14-2011, 09:34 AM
No that would simply be you jumping off a bridge into an overly long post as usual.

Ah, a one-line zinger attacking the poster with no actual feedback on the ideas stated.

I see.

I'll re-state my position, again, and simplify it so you can address it (since my posts are too long):

It is possible that the reason Boselli did not pursue a lawsuit is because both shoulders were jacked up, the operation didn't take, and it would have been hard to prove malpractice. Shit happens. It happened to him, and we were in on the gag as well (as DB has pointed out). Boselli still got paid, for not playing a down of football for Houston, the Jags gave us Payne & Walker, and the Jags rid themselves of some money.

The Texans later admitted that they knew Boselli would likely never run another race, and so they put him out to pasture and started running the Payne and Walker horses on race day.

All I remember, at the time, was hearing and seeing that we had just acquired our anchor on the line. Plus, we were getting two consistently productive defensive linemen. That is, as DB has pointed out, only one major example of a lack of transparency by the Texans. They have since done a great job of sharpening and perfecting their craft. Kudos to them. But fans catch on, eventually.

Ideas stated. Whether you deem the reasoning of this post as being acceptable, or not, I stated my ideas on it.

infantrycak
01-14-2011, 09:49 AM
Ah, a one-line zinger attacking the poster with no actual feedback on the ideas stated.

I see.

I'll re-state my position, again, and simplify it so you can address it (since my posts are too long):

You don't need to simplify at all. I understand your long winded crystal ball, tarot card reading posts just fine. I just think they are FOS and yes they are too long. You spend your entire posting career centered around "It is possible that..." It's possible Zeus procreated as a swan. Whatever.

drs23
01-14-2011, 02:19 PM
1)Wow. That really pokes a pretty big hole in your argument then.

2)A "thought" that never materialized into an actual lawsuit. How much of his "not in my nature to sue" is really "not in his nature to sue" and how much is "didn't have a leg to stand upon in the courtroom"?

3)Because if his shoulders (plural) were, indeed, already tangled up and jacked pretty badly when he had the surgery...then wouldn't it be harder to claim malpractice for a surgery that wasn't successful? It's not like they operated on the healthy shoulder and screwed it up, if what DB is saying is true (which is sounds true to me). They were trying to repair a bad shoulder and it didn't take as expected. Shit happens.

4)But the main point here, as DB has pointed out, which has now come full circle, is this: Just saying some stuff, up front and at the beginning, even if it's worded carefully, goes a long way to build up some equity for later down the road.

5)At this point, I don't care if Wade Phillips and Gary Kubiak tell me that Vance Joseph is "The Next Big Thing" in the fine art of secondary coaching. Because I'm already conditioned to NOT believe them. I won't ever go watch any of the videos at the official board where they interview coaches or Rick Smith. And have been this way for years now. Not worth it. It's all B.S. and spin. They don't even know they're B.S.'ing us it's become such a habit of theirs.

6It's the organizational culture there. I applaud Elway for at least thinking, "Damn...we probably could do ourselves a favor by opening this up and showing the fans they're in on the deal here." Especially after Josh McDaniels and the way he acted.

7Right now, due to our non-success in the W-L column and lack of post-season play, I don't really care to be B.S.'d anymore by the Texans and some of the fans. Save that shit for when we're beating people's brains out on Sundays and steamrolling through the playoffs.

8There's a time and place for playing your cards close to your chest. And there's a time and place to be honest and let people see what you're holding. There's a way to use both tactics, at the right time, and still win off it.

Hmmm, Tommy "8" Lines? :lol:

GP
01-14-2011, 03:17 PM
Hmmm, Tommy "8" Lines? :lol:

LOL.

If I had structured it correctly, I could have made it into four paragraphs. Long paragraphs. But I'm not OCD like that.

GP
01-14-2011, 03:21 PM
You don't need to simplify at all. I understand your long winded crystal ball, tarot card reading posts just fine. I just think they are FOS and yes they are too long. You spend your entire posting career centered around "It is possible that..." It's possible Zeus procreated as a swan. Whatever.

I think you're hurt that DB deflated your premise of possible malpractice (which you were implementing in your post as a way to frame your own sort of "It's possible that....Boselli would have played had he not been malpracticed upon," for lack of a better phrase).

I shouldn't have poured salt on the wound.

The statements stand: Boselli POSSIBLY had two jacked up shoulders, the Texans knew it, a doc gave it the best shot he could (but it didn't take), and the Texans eventually (supposedly) owned up to the one Boselli for Payne and Walker deal with the Jags. In essence, that means Walker and Payne's salary is increased by the value of whatever we paid to Boselli for not ever playing a down of football--Bob paid money to a guy that was wasted money. I see a pattern there...

Shit happens.

four lines, unplanned. damnit.