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View Full Version : Wade's vision for our defense, as per our current personnel


nero THE zero
01-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Essentially, he feels this way (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7369934.html) about our current players:

Antonio Smith -- DE (DT in nickel packages)
Mario Williams -- DE
Shaun Cody -- NT
Earl Mitchell -- NT

Connor Barwin -- OLB (DE in nickel packages)
DeMeco Ryans -- ILB
Brian Cushing -- ILB/OLB
Mark Anderson -- OLB
Tim Jamison -- OLB

Amobi Okoye -- DT in nickel packages

This was probably the most interesting quote from the article, for me:
“Anybody who says the Texans don’t have the players to play on the nose is wrong,” Phillips said. “I’ve only seen them on film, but I think Cody and Mitchell can play on the nose. From what I saw, both of them had good years.

“It helps to have a good player on the nose. Everywhere I’ve gone except Buffalo — where I took Ted Washington with me — they’ve had a player on the roster we turned into a pretty good nose.”

Also, of note, is that we've probably seen the last starting line-up featuring Amobi Okoye. From the sounds of it, if he makes the roster it will be in a situational role.

TheCD
01-07-2011, 12:24 PM
Does this mean we'll go after Jason Babin in the offseason? Even trade with Amobi for Babin? :stirpot:

DerekLee1
01-07-2011, 12:26 PM
Tim Jamison and Mark Anderson over Sharpton, Diles, and Adibi? Interesting...

Texan4Ever
01-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Essentially, he feels this way (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7369934.html) about our current players:

Antonio Smith -- DE (DT in nickel packages)
Mario Williams -- DE
Shaun Cody -- NT
Earl Mitchell -- NT *Could play DE in a 3-4 IMO*

Connor Barwin -- OLB (DE in nickel packages)
DeMeco Ryans -- ILB
Brian Cushing -- ILB/OLB
Mark Anderson -- OLB
Tim Jamison -- OLB

Amobi Okoye -- DT in nickel packages



I have no problem with Cody and or Mitchell playing nose tackle, only if they gain some weight (315-lbs should be good enough). Tim Jamison may have to loose some weight and learn some pass-rushing moves, but he should be a solid OLB as he has a non-stop motor.

I would really like to get rid of Amobi Okoye and trade him to a team looking for a young DT to develop in exchange for draft picks or an unknown player we could develop as an OLB.

HuttoKarl
01-07-2011, 12:51 PM
Essentially, he feels this way (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7369934.html) about our current players:

Antonio Smith -- DE (DT in nickel packages)
Mario Williams -- DE
Shaun Cody -- NT
Earl Mitchell -- NT

Connor Barwin -- OLB (DE in nickel packages)
DeMeco Ryans -- ILB
Brian Cushing -- ILB/OLB
Mark Anderson -- OLB
Tim Jamison -- OLB

Amobi Okoye -- DT in nickel packages

This was probably the most interesting quote from the article, for me:


Also, of note, is that we've probably seen the last starting line-up featuring Amobi Okoye. From the sounds of it, if he makes the roster it will be in a situational role.

That looks like a most disappointing defensive front.

DerekLee1
01-07-2011, 12:57 PM
That looks like a most disappointing defensive front.

If you read deeper into the article, we're not STARTING Jamison or Anderson at OLB. Wade says he wants to try them out at OLB. More likely you'll see:

Antonio Smith -- DE (DT in nickel packages)
Mario Williams -- DE
Shaun Cody/Earl Mitchell -- NT
Amobi Okoye -- DT in nickel packages

Connor Barwin -- OLB (DE in nickel packages)
DeMeco Ryans -- ILB
Sharpton/Diles/Adibi -- ILB
Brian Cushing -- OLB

That, to me, looks like a pretty formidable front 7.

Norg
01-07-2011, 01:01 PM
He says that but im sure he will try and wheel and deal maybe even get some of his players from Dallas and other places plus the Draft

Ole Miss Texan
01-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Very interesting. I'm excited about all of this, I really am.

Amobi Okoye - I understand he has underwhelmed us from him being the #10 overall pick but he's not a bad player. Having Okoye as a backup (assuming he fits well in the scheme) would be awesome. Despite what many people think, his contract right now is fairly friendly. And I doubt he'll be getting a huge starter caliber contract when he becomes a FA in 2013. So why not have an above average backup???

Malloy
01-07-2011, 01:14 PM
I love the fact that he has an ACTUAL view on our players already, sounds to me like he has a clear plan and knows exactly what's needed to make it work.

Then again I could be horribly wrong, but until we lose another game I'm high on positivity! :)

michaelm
01-07-2011, 01:16 PM
That's a hell of a list in that article of players Wade has coached.

Is it the chicken or the egg?

Did those good players make his system successful,
or did was it his system that was good, and allowed the players to succeed?

powda
01-07-2011, 01:18 PM
Why am i suddenly reminded of Gary Kubiak assuring Bob McNair he can turn David Carr into a good quarterback so he can get the job?

The vision i really wanna know about from Wade is how he plans to make our secondary respectible.

DX-TEX
01-07-2011, 01:20 PM
That's a hell of a list in that article of players Wade has coached.

Is it the chicken or the egg?

Did those good players make his system successful,
or did was it his system that was good, and allowed the players to succeed?

Considering everywhere he went to be the DC had one of the worst defenses in the league and in one year turned them all around in a year says its the system

DerekLee1
01-07-2011, 01:22 PM
That's a hell of a list in that article of players Wade has coached.

Is it the chicken or the egg?

Did those good players make his system successful,
or did was it his system that was good, and allowed the players to succeed?

Why am i suddenly reminded of Gary Kubiak assuring Bob McNair he can turn David Carr into a good quarterback so he can get the job?

The vision i really wanna know about from Wade is how he plans to make our secondary respectible.

Carr was NEVER good. We have players on defense that we already KNOW are good (Ryans, Cushing, Williams, Smith, Barwin)

It doesn't matter if it's the chicken or the egg. We have both.

powda
01-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Carr was NEVER good. We have players on defense that we already KNOW are good (Ryans, Cushing, Williams, Smith, Barwin)


Thats not the point of the analogy. If Kubiak said he couldnt turn Carr into a solid quarterback lots of people feel he wouldnt have gotten the job.

If Wade Phillips said he couldnt make our players work in a 3-4 defense do you think he would've gotten the job?

maddogmrb
01-07-2011, 01:32 PM
I believe the Texans have good 3-4 personnel at DE, OLB & ILB but, we are woefully inept at NT. Anybody remember how the Oilers defense really solidified once they got Curly Culp at NT? To have a good 3-4 defense you need an above average guy at NT. To have an excellent 3-4 defense you need a great guy at NT. We don't have anyone close to that at this point. I would like to think the team would go out and address the situation either thru free agency or draft or both however, nothing about the teams past FA activity suggests they would be a player for an impact NT or an impact FA at any position. Remember, we still have the same guys running our draft & FA. Here is how we might expect this year's draft to look:

1- Best available TE.
2- Best available TE.
3- Best available TE.
4- OG.
5- Kick Returner.
6- DB.
7- QB.

And I'm only using mild :sarcasm:

Vinnie
01-07-2011, 01:36 PM
The vision i really wanna know about from Wade is how he plans to make our secondary respectible.

Pass rush

DerekLee1
01-07-2011, 01:40 PM
Thats not the point of the analogy. If Kubiak said he couldnt turn Carr into a solid quarterback lots of people feel he wouldnt have gotten the job.

If Wade Phillips said he couldnt make our players work in a 3-4 defense do you think he would've gotten the job?

We don't know what was said in the interviews; we can only assume. BUT Wade has experience in the 4-3, 3-4 and 46 defenses. I think if he truly felt we didn't have the personnel for a pure 3-4, he'd be running a 4-3 or hybrid system.

powda
01-07-2011, 01:44 PM
Our front 7 played solid for most of the year. At times the defensive line and linebackers were almost dominant (See - Baltimore blitzs, and mike vick getting his a** kicked by our front 7.)

i understand a pass rush helps the pass defense greatly----------but...

At some point we need corners who can cover. Dont try and talk me into another season of Wilson, Pollard, Quin, Allen, and Jackson. I'm not buying...

TheCD
01-07-2011, 01:52 PM
I would like to think the team would go out and address the situation either thru free agency or draft or both however, nothing about the teams past FA activity suggests they would be a player for an impact NT or an impact FA at any position. Remember, we still have the same guys running our draft & FA. Here is how we might expect this year's draft to look:


McNair did state that he went with the decision of the defensive coaches in stating that our young secondary could get the job done. Whether he was simply throwing the guys under the bus I don't know.

Pass rush

Uh oh...them's fightin' words around here, man! :kitten:

TimeKiller
01-07-2011, 02:01 PM
With Ryans' health in question and Cushing's GAME in question...they really need to find an answer or two in the draft at LB, specifically ILB. Perhaps Anderson or Jamison can fit the bill to bookend Barwin, I mean there's no sense in not trying but really...Cushing is the guy on the other side of Barwin for me, with Ryans (if healthy) and a pickup in the middle. I'd rather find a big, probably slower, powerful LB to take up some of the space Cody/Mitchell won't than another guy like Barwin or Cushing. Regardless of Cushing's positioning or Ryans' health, another LB MUST be acquired. The point of having 4 LBers on the field is that you have 4 good LBers.

Uh.....
Ryans-We'll see I suppose. Achilles injuries don't sound like skipping through a breezy pasture.
Cushing-We need 400 mg's of juice, STAT!
Barwin-Probably fits the OLB passrusher bill. PROBABLY. Probably? Probably.
Diles? Fart. Adibi? Shart. Sharpton?

If 2/3 of your DL is MW and Antonio, probably doin just fine there. Even if Cody is the NT. Yeah, a big fatass would be nice but LBer is hurting for another guy to show up and be an answer, not a question or a liability to cover.

Speaking of liabilities and cover(age)....what about the secondary? You know....the black, vaccumous, swirling hole we get to watch! Do you resign Pollard's all attitude/no skillz? It's nice when it works and it's ****ing horrendous when it doesn't. How about Wilson? If you bring him back please, PLEASE, somebody get the old man a cane. How about these corners? Are any of them worth anything? Quin is but where does he fit in? McCain I could take or leave Faggins v.2....Molden? Seriously, if you pay this guy, pay ME because at the very least I would get hurt trying knock somebody's head off. Or hell, pay me to knock MOLDEN'S head off, then you'll have a reason to cut him that won't make you feel so bad about drafting him.

JASON ALLEN?!?!?! BWAAAhahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah...nice of Wade to line up the front 7 for us, whenever you figure out the rubix cube of a secondary we got goin' here put out another article.

MojoX
01-07-2011, 02:05 PM
McNair did state that he went with the decision of the defensive coaches in stating that our young secondary could get the job done. Whether he was simply throwing the guys under the bus I don't know.



Uh oh...them's fightin' words around here, man! :kitten:

I think McNair was just being honest. He usually doesn't talk about things like that publicly and has been lambasted for it. This time he did point out whose bright idea it was, but he also owned the responsibility of the decision as a organization. I tend to think discussion internal decisions in detail comes across as throwing someone under the bus, which is why I don't mind them not doing it. I suspect he was tossing the fans a bone on this one, trying to explain why hiring a new DC is sufficient.

I also think McNair and the organization has learned their lesson about going so young and inexperienced, at least in the secondary. McNair has said so and Kubiak even stated that going young in the secondary was a decision he regrets.

Phillips will get personnel, McNair and Kubiak have already stated so. And the Texans already take coach input into personnel decisions. And I am sure Phillips, like the rest of humanity, knows of the horror that was the 2010 Houston Texans secondary.

It's not like they need to replace all 4 starters anyway. At most 3, probably 2 - safety and corner.

TheCD
01-07-2011, 02:07 PM
You know....the black, vaccumous, swirling hole we get to watch!

Hey now! Paris Hilton's been a very good girl lately...:clown:

Yankee_In_TX
01-07-2011, 02:07 PM
I love the fact that he has an ACTUAL view on our players already, sounds to me like he has a clear plan and knows exactly what's needed to make it work.

Then again I could be horribly wrong, but until we lose another game I'm high on positivity! :)

It's nice to hear tangible answers. he could turn out to be horribly wrong, but it's better than the non-answers we've gotten to questions for 5+ years.

Of course, once Wade gets used to the Houston media, we may get coach speak from him, too.

drs23
01-07-2011, 02:09 PM
Why am i suddenly reminded of Gary Kubiak assuring Bob McNair he can turn David Carr into a good quarterback so he can get the job?

The vision i really wanna know about from Wade is how he plans to make our secondary respectible.

My thought as well. I hope this is what Gary and Bob meant when they said they would get him whoever he needs to be successful. I'm probably in the minority here but I DO BELIEVE they will do everything in their power to get him the players he wants/needs. I honestly believe 'the lights have come on'. *puts on full body armor* Bob specifically addressed needing to improve the secondary. I WANT TO BELIEVE! Show us Bob! :handshake:

drs23
01-07-2011, 02:16 PM
I believe the Texans have good 3-4 personnel at DE, OLB & ILB but, we are woefully inept at NT. Anybody remember how the Oilers defense really solidified once they got Curly Culp at NT? To have a good 3-4 defense you need an above average guy at NT. To have an excellent 3-4 defense you need a great guy at NT. We don't have anyone close to that at this point. I would like to think the team would go out and address the situation either thru free agency or draft or both however, nothing about the teams past FA activity suggests they would be a player for an impact NT or an impact FA at any position. Remember, we still have the same guys running our draft & FA. Here is how we might expect this year's draft to look:

1- Best available TE.
2- Best available TE.
3- Best available TE.
4- OG.
5- Kick Returner.
6- DB.
7- QB.

And I'm only using mild :sarcasm:

See post above keeping in mind that Bob is the cheapest SOB owner to ever own a team (saving SH some keystrokes:kitten:). After all, he did just make Wade the highest paid DC in the league. Must have been a slip of the pen I'm sure.:hurrah:

TheCD
01-07-2011, 02:19 PM
IPhillips will get personnel, McNair and Kubiak have already stated so. And the Texans already take coach input into personnel decisions. And I am sure Phillips, like the rest of humanity, knows of the horror that was the 2010 Houston Texans secondary.

It's not like they need to replace all 4 starters anyway. At most 3, probably 2 - safety and corner.

The best thing about hiring him is he played our defense twice this year. He's got a nice grasp as to what was horribly wrong and I'm sure he was in on the offensive meetings where they schemed around our best players (Mario and DeMeco, and I'm sure Anotonio sees a lot of scheming as well). On top of this, I am fairly sure he knows what was so horribly wrong with our secondary since they chewed us up.

Once he starts working with the players he will know exactly where all the problems laid whether it be scheme or personnel. He will also be able to explain to the players exactly why they were carved up.

TheCD
01-07-2011, 02:21 PM
See post above keeping in mind that Bob is the cheapest SOB owner to ever own a team (saving SH some keystrokes:kitten:). After all, he did just make Wade the highest paid DC in the league. Must have been a slip of the pen I'm sure.:hurrah:

Do you know the numbers on his contract and comparisons around the league? Just curious really.

However he definitely isn't the cheapest in the league, I think the Bucs fall in that category (and look where that "cheap bastard owner" got them...)

HOU-TEX
01-07-2011, 02:46 PM
Do you know the numbers on his contract and comparisons around the league? Just curious really.

However he definitely isn't the cheapest in the league, I think the Bucs fall in that category (and look where that "cheap bastard owner" got them...)

2.1 million over 3 years.
The Houston Texans announced that they have hired former Dallas Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips to be their new Defensive Coordinator. Phillips contract is reportedly worth $2.1 million over three years making him the highest paid D-Coordinator in the league.

http://insidepulse.com/2011/01/06/nfl-news-houston-texans-hired-wade-phillips-as-defensive-coordinator/

MojoX
01-07-2011, 02:55 PM
Do you know the numbers on his contract and comparisons around the league? Just curious really.

However he definitely isn't the cheapest in the league, I think the Bucs fall in that category (and look where that "cheap bastard owner" got them...)
Don't forget the Patriots... cheap bastards. Now the Skins and Cowboys... now they know how to spend money!


But really, while he hasn't made a habit of doling out record setting contracts, McNair has opened his check book for Johnson, Ryans, Smith, Weaver, Carr, etc. Due to scouting problems, it just hasn't been money well spent.

Ryan
01-07-2011, 02:57 PM
Take this for what its worth, but my dad is close friends with a reporter who has alot of ties with Wade Phillips(not from Houston area), and talking to him, he said that the majority of the front 7 will work for next season, but the real changes need to be made in the secondary. Looks like everyone's jobs are in jeopardy.

nero THE zero
01-07-2011, 03:46 PM
2.1 million over 3 years.


http://insidepulse.com/2011/01/06/nfl-news-houston-texans-hired-wade-phillips-as-defensive-coordinator/

Exhibit A (err, Z) as to McNair being more incompetent than cheap.

burro
01-07-2011, 04:03 PM
With all the 3-4 vs 4-3 debate aside, I would really like to know what Wade plans to do about the Safety situation. If it's Pollard/Wilson again, I may very well vomit. I can only hope that we don't neglect any big names/interesting prospects that may make their way into FA. We need a veteran presence in the secondary. Going young was a major flop.

Nawzer
01-07-2011, 04:18 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

El Tejano
01-07-2011, 04:23 PM
With all the 3-4 vs 4-3 debate aside, I would really like to know what Wade plans to do about the Safety situation. If it's Pollard/Wilson again, I may very well vomit. I can only hope that we don't neglect any big names/interesting prospects that may make their way into FA. We need a veteran presence in the secondary. Going young was a major flop.

Who do you have in mind?

infantrycak
01-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Who do you have in mind?

Folks are focused on big names like Champ Bailey (and I wouldn't mind signing him) but Brent Grimes is someone we should make a hard run at. Eric Weddle might top the list of FA FS's.

burro
01-07-2011, 04:36 PM
Folks are focused on big names like Champ Bailey (and I wouldn't mind signing him) but Brent Grimes is someone we should make a hard run at. Eric Weddle might top the list of FA FS's.

Bingo. Weddle would be an immediate improvement over anything that we have now.

DBCooper
01-07-2011, 04:52 PM
The vision i really wanna know about from Wade is how he plans to make our secondary respectible.

We need better players in here, I don't know if I want any of those guys even as 2nd stringers.

What I like about the 3-4, especially a Wade Phillips 3-4, is the different looks he gives you. It's the reason Peyton is so unsuccessful against it.

It's like the anti-Bush defense.

Jackie Chiles
01-07-2011, 04:58 PM
Folks are focused on big names like Champ Bailey (and I wouldn't mind signing him) but Brent Grimes is someone we should make a hard run at. Eric Weddle might top the list of FA FS's.

I like it, we could stick it to Atlanta a bit as well if we were able to steal Grimes from them. He was probably their best DB all year. Weddle would be great as well.

Texan4Ever
01-07-2011, 06:32 PM
Folks are focused on big names like Champ Bailey (and I wouldn't mind signing him) but Brent Grimes is someone we should make a hard run at. Eric Weddle might top the list of FA FS's.



Glad you mentioned Weddle, he's one of my favorite players to watch and would be an instant upgrade over what we currently have. Man, with this 3-4 I'm actually excited to see what Wade can do. We have an extra LB in Pollard and I can only imagine how well he would do as a blitzer.

We can get Cushing to play OLB in a similar role that he had at USC as the Elephant back which was basically a DE who stood up and played.

PapaL
01-07-2011, 06:35 PM
i love the fact that he has an actual view on our players already, sounds to me like he has a clear plan and knows exactly what's needed to make it work.

Then again i could be horribly wrong, but until we lose another game i'm high on positivity! :)

+1

qft

DocBar
01-07-2011, 07:14 PM
My gut reaction is that Phillips didn't need to swallow to get the job. He has a good enough resume and a last name that is gold in Houston that says he doesn't have to. He could give an honest, but tactful, assessment of the personnel with out being scared. Phillips was gonna get a job in this league.

My biggest question is do we have too nice of a coaching staff? Players are scared to death of Belichick. They don't always like him, but they respect him and would charge the gates of hell with a bucket if ice water for him. Most examples of successful coaching staffs are that way. Buddy Ryan's players didn't always like him much, but he commanded respect and results. More often than not, he got them.
I say all this to point out that both Phillips and Kubiak are known to be laid back and easy going with players. Who do we have that's gonna grab a face mask and get in the grill of a player that doesn't perform? I don't mean on the practice field. I don't mean benching a player foe a quarter for missing a meeting. I mean during a game when they drop a pass, throw an interception or don't turn their bleeping head around to find the bleeping ball. We need that kind of accountability on this team from the coaching staff.

edo783
01-07-2011, 10:30 PM
IMO, one of the most telling things that Wade said was that "We will fit the scheme to the players". What a concept.

JB
01-07-2011, 10:34 PM
IMO, one of the most telling things that Wade said was that "We will fit the scheme to the players". What a concept.

Wait! What? Is this some newfangled concept by those damn young whippersnappers? :foottap:

Jrod7451
01-08-2011, 02:00 AM
I didn't like Okoye ever since we drafted him. There were still plenty of quality players left in the draft, it was the first round. One of our worst first round picks beside David Carr.

HJam72
01-08-2011, 02:29 AM
I didn't like Okoye ever since we drafted him. There were still plenty of quality players left in the draft, it was the first round. One of our worst first round picks beside David Carr.

Won't say I don't like him, but that pick really irked me and I've definitely not changed my mind.

Thorn
01-08-2011, 02:51 AM
Wait! What? Is this some newfangled concept by those damn young whippersnappers? :foottap:

Wade Phillips is older than both of us. LOL

Texan4Ever
01-08-2011, 12:39 PM
Wade Phillips is older than both of us. LOL


I'm surprised by how old Wade is. He coached guys like Curly Culp, Bingham, and Bethea and I was like, "Woah, this dude is old!" I hope he can bring some attitude to this D.

Lucky
01-09-2011, 02:57 AM
Due to scouting problems, it just hasn't been money well spent.
Does Wade Phillips showing up fix these "scouting problems"? Why suddenly this year will the $$$ be "well spent"?

ArlingtonTexan
01-09-2011, 08:13 AM
Does Wade Phillips showing up fix these "scouting problems"? Why suddenly this year will the $$$ be "well spent"?

Just reminded me that one of Wade's Dallas nicknames was "me. Fix-it" :goodluck:

OzzO
01-09-2011, 11:20 AM
...Buddy Ryan's players didn't always like him much, but he commanded respect and results. More often than not, he got them.
I say all this to point out that both Phillips and Kubiak are known to be laid back and easy going with players. Who do we have that's gonna grab a face mask and get in the grill of a player that doesn't perform? ....

Not calling you out, but just putting this interesting story out there from today's cronic (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7372681.html):

Reeves impressed
"The first time I saw Wade coach was when (the Saints) came out to scrimmage (the Broncos) in Greeley, (Colo.)," Reeves said. "I already knew Bum from coming to Houston to play golf with him and our daughters had become good friends, but I didn't know Wade. I watched him run a drill between his linebackers and our running backs and was really impressed. I followed his career after that.

"He was working in Philadelphia when I needed a coordinator (in Denver), and he did a wonderful job for us. Same thing in Atlanta. He's such a great guy and just real easy to work with. He does an outstanding job of getting coaches to work together.

"I don't know anybody in the business who doesn't like and respect Wade Phillips."

Risking accusations of nepotism, Bum hired Wade when he was only 29 to coach the Oilers' linebackers for him in 1976. A year later, he took charge of a defensive line populated by the likes of future Hall-of-Famer Elvin Bethea, a Super Bowl ring winner in Curley Culp and the famous Smith brothers, Bubba and Tody.

That tough, intimidating bunch earned him his first NFL stripes and proved he had a future.

"When I found out I was moving to the defensive line," Phillips said, "my first thought was, 'Oh boy, now I've got to coach Curley Culp.' Curley hadn't spoken to me once the year before. I don't think he liked me."

But, after standing up to a recalcitrant Tody Smith one afternoon during practice, Wade won those men over. The next day, Tody Smith did what he was supposed to do, Phillips said, "because the other guys talked to him and told him to do it because I was right and it was the right thing for the team."

Bethea remembers Phillips fondly, saying: "Yeah, we were hard on him. Here he was this college kid - I don't think he even had hair on his legs - coming in and telling us what to do. 'Go here, go there. Do this, do that.' He was always coaching his (butt) off. I'd say, 'Wade, relax. Let us play. We'll be fine.' But he earned our respect. He's still my guy. I'm proud of what he's done, and I'm real happy he's coming back to Houston. He'll be good for the Texans.

Dallas_Texan
01-09-2011, 11:59 AM
People just need to understand. Signing a CB and drafting a FS will turn the whole defense around. Coverage will help the front seven in the sacks department. Kareem as a second CB will be better next year.

Now let's all just pray Demeco and Barwin come back in full health. That's what will make all the difference in our season next year.

Also pray to the football Gods that we pick up Aso!!!!

Bull
01-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Smith,Okoye will be out here. If you don't want to play the 3-4 you will be out here! Phillips knows he has to fix this soft cry baby defense now!

DocBar
01-09-2011, 12:24 PM
Not calling you out, but just putting this interesting story out there from today's cronic (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7372681.html):

Yeah, I read that. Makes me hopeful.

BattleRedToro
01-09-2011, 12:32 PM
I'm surprised so many people seem to be down on Mark Anderson. He has some good measurables for a 3-4 OLB: 6ft 4in, 255 lbs, long arms, and a quick first step. I expect he will resurrect his career next season if he is used in a similar role as Demarcus Ware was in Dallas. In otherwords, he will rush the QB more than drop into coverage.

I also expect improvement from Mario Williams next season. Rushing the QB from a head up alignment over the Left Tackle seems to me to be a better starting position for Mario than lining up outside the left shoulder of the Left Tackle.

Lucky
01-09-2011, 01:18 PM
I also expect improvement from Mario Williams next season. Rushing the QB from a head up alignment over the Left Tackle seems to me to be a better starting position for Mario than lining up outside the left shoulder of the Left Tackle.
Having an edge rusher on his outside shoulder could help, as well.

CretorFrigg
01-09-2011, 01:45 PM
I also expect improvement from Mario Williams next season. Rushing the QB from a head up alignment over the Left Tackle seems to me to be a better starting position for Mario than lining up outside the left shoulder of the Left Tackle.

Wouldn't that essentially mean that Mario William is akin to the DT in a 4-3 system? His sack numbers will significantly be lower, and judging from his earlier comments, he doesn't seem extremely excited for the switch. He'll have more run blocking assignments and won't solely be a pass rusher anymore.

What I'm more worried about is who'll be our OLB? Who's going to be our Terrel Suggs or DeMarcus Ware? The individuals Wade mentioned don't exactly excite me. I hope we supplement that via the draft or free agency.

DocBar
01-09-2011, 02:00 PM
Wouldn't that essentially mean that Mario William is akin to the DT in a 4-3 system? His sack numbers will significantly be lower, and judging from his earlier comments, he doesn't seem extremely excited for the switch. He'll have more run blocking assignments and won't solely be a pass rusher anymore.

What I'm more worried about is who'll be our OLB? Who's going to be our Terrel Suggs or DeMarcus Ware? The individuals Wade mentioned don't exactly excite me. I hope we supplement that via the draft or free agency.I see Conner Barwin excelling in that role. He's fast, strong and plays like the energizer bunny....just keeps going. That's assuming a full recovery. MW might also do well inside. With Barwin playing on his side, who do you double team? Pick your poison.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2011, 02:28 PM
My macro view of this:

A direction with Wade Phillips; Lessons from the playoffs for Texans fans (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2011/01/wade_phillips_the_key_differen.html#more)

BattleRedToro
01-09-2011, 02:41 PM
Wouldn't that essentially mean that Mario William is akin to the DT in a 4-3 system? His sack numbers will significantly be lower, and judging from his earlier comments, he doesn't seem extremely excited for the switch. He'll have more run blocking assignments and won't solely be a pass rusher anymore.

No, a DT in a 4-3 lines up near a Guard or a Center, not a Tackle. His sack numbers will not go down. The reason I suggested he would do better lined up directly over a Tackle rather than outside a Tackle is because Mario has a good combination of power and speed. By lining up directly over the Tackle he can threaten to go to either side of the tackle or to bowl him over. Lining up outside the Tackle is better for pure speed rushers because they are better positioned for an outside rush.

thunderkyss
01-09-2011, 02:43 PM
Who do we have that's gonna grab a face mask and get in the grill of a player that doesn't perform? I don't mean on the practice field. I don't mean benching a player foe a quarter for missing a meeting. I mean during a game when they drop a pass, throw an interception or don't turn their bleeping head around to find the bleeping ball. We need that kind of accountability on this team from the coaching staff.

Read this article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024716/index.htm).. pretty lengthy. This getting in your face thing... I think it's more a myth than anything.


I know when I played organized sports, it always made me feel good, when the opposing team started fighting amongst themselves. When I coached, I let my players know how good a job they did, when the opposing coach is yelling at their own players.

"You did that guys..... You've got them screaming at each other."

Lucky
01-09-2011, 02:56 PM
My macro view of this:

A direction with Wade Phillips; Lessons from the playoffs for Texans fans (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2011/01/wade_phillips_the_key_differen.html#more)
From your blog:

Though Kubiak clearly has made in-game mistakes, I think sometimes fans act like no other head coach makes decisions that fail.
I don't think that's fair or accurate. Most fans know that all coaches make mistakes. It's that Kubiak routinely makes more mistakes that the opposition's coach that is upsetting to fans. Yes, Sean Payton & Jim Caldwell can make mistakes. But, they also have success to point to. Gary Kubiak has little to point to that would indicate he is a good decision maker.

The Pencil Neck
01-09-2011, 03:11 PM
From your blog:


I don't think that's fair or accurate. Most fans know that all coaches make mistakes. It's that Kubiak routinely makes more mistakes that the opposition's coach that is upsetting to fans. Yes, Sean Payton & Jim Caldwell can make mistakes. But, they also have success to point to. Gary Kubiak has little to point to that would indicate he is a good decision maker.

Personally, I agree with TC on this.

I think people frequently hold their own coach to a higher standard than they do other coaches and team loses, any mistake or perceived mistake (which may not have even been a mistake) is magnified.

For us, Payton and Caldwell's mistakes are no big deal but to Saints and Colts fans, there's going to be a big over-reaction.

rmartin65
01-09-2011, 04:42 PM
A thought hit me today while I was at work- what if Wade was blowing smoke when he said this? Maybe he said "Yeah, sure, can work with these players" so if the Texans did not make a move for a true NT (or whatever position), he would still have the locker room's support?

houstonspartan
01-09-2011, 04:55 PM
Personally, I agree with TC on this.

I think people frequently hold their own coach to a higher standard than they do other coaches and team loses, any mistake or perceived mistake (which may not have even been a mistake) is magnified.

For us, Payton and Caldwell's mistakes are no big deal but to Saints and Colts fans, there's going to be a big over-reaction.

So how is it that Payton has a ring, and Caldwell has multiple playoff trips?

Please. Kubiak is not even in the same league as those guys. Texans Chick is flat out WRONG when comparing them.

JB
01-09-2011, 05:00 PM
So how is it that Payton has a ring, and Caldwell has multiple playoff trips?

Please. Kubiak is not even in the same league as those guys. Texans Chick is flat out WRONG when comparing them.

Did you even read her article? I don't think she compared them at all. She wrote

Sirius NFL Radio has exploded this morning with discussions of the mistakes made by Sean Payton and Jim Caldwell. Just about every fanbase in the league can point to mistakes, failed game calls, strategy questions that are on the head coach, and say that their coach isn't a good game manager.

How does that compare Kubiak to them? Take a break from your haterade long enough to read before criticizing.

DocBar
01-09-2011, 05:15 PM
So how is it that Payton has a ring, and Caldwell has multiple playoff trips?

Please. Kubiak is not even in the same league as those guys. Texans Chick is flat out WRONG when comparing them.

What TC is saying is that it's far easier to see the mistakes your coach makes
and be critical of him than other coaches you don't get as much exposure to.

Rey
01-09-2011, 05:20 PM
How does that compare Kubiak to them? Take a break from your haterade long enough to read before criticizing.

I think when you bring other head coaches into the conversation that is a comparison by default.

Lucky
01-09-2011, 05:30 PM
How does that compare Kubiak to them? Take a break from your haterade long enough to read before criticizing.
The implication is that the criticism of Kubiak's game management is off base. I couldn't disagree more. I realize that it is vogue to lay all of the blame of the Texans failures at the feet of the defense. But Gary Kubiak has made more than his share of mistakes during his tenure as head coach.

Frankly, I just think it's poor form to compare Kubiak to successful head coaches, however indirectly. Yes, they are all NFL coaches. Yes, all NFL coaches make mistakes. But, to suggest that Kubiak gets more than his fair share of criticism is unfounded. Kubiak did not earn his extension in 2010, or his retention in 2011. But, he has earned the negative critique from fans and observers in regards to his game management skills.

JB
01-09-2011, 05:46 PM
The implication is that the criticism of Kubiak's game management is off base. I couldn't disagree more. I realize that it is vogue to lay all of the blame of the Texans failures at the feet of the defense. But Gary Kubiak has made more than his share of mistakes during his tenure as head coach.

Frankly, I just think it's poor form to compare Kubiak to successful head coaches, however indirectly. Yes, they are all NFL coaches. Yes, all NFL coaches make mistakes. But, to suggest that Kubiak gets more than his fair share of criticism is unfounded. Kubiak did not earn his extension in 2010, or his retention in 2011. But, he has earned the negative critique from fans and observers in regards to his game management skills.



I thought she was just pointing out that fans of all teams blast their coaches for their mistakes. Nowhere did I see that she was saying Kubiak got more than his share, but rather that all think there coach is worse than they really are.

Kubiak may get blasted by us more, he makes more mistakes. But, he is not as bad as a lot of people make out.

Wolf
01-09-2011, 05:57 PM
So how is it that Payton has a ring, and Caldwell has multiple playoff trips?



Uhm one of the greatest QB's that we will ever see play the game?

manning goes down and we will see how smart Caldwell is

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2011, 09:04 PM
Uhm one of the greatest QB's that we will ever see play the game?

manning goes down and we will see how smart Caldwell is

I took it to mean Sean. As in, the New Orleans head coach. I think the comparison was being made between head coaches.

JB
01-09-2011, 09:11 PM
I took it to mean Sean. As in, the New Orleans head coach. I think the comparison was being made between head coaches.

I think that Wolf's point is that without Manning, Caldwell would not look near as smart. Without Brees, Payton would not look near as smart either.

steelbtexan
01-09-2011, 09:16 PM
Kubiak =Payton or any other HC that's made the playoffs, much less multiple playoff appearences = LOL

JB
01-09-2011, 09:17 PM
Kubiak =Payton or any other HC that's made the playoffs, much less multiple playoff appearences = LOL

I'm certainly not trying to compare Kubiak to any playoff coach.

steelbtexan
01-09-2011, 09:18 PM
I think that Wolf's point is that without Manning, Caldwell would not look near as smart. Without Brees, Payton would not look near as smart either.

With Schaub, Kubiak looks dumb.

Wouldn't you like to see what Schaub would look like under another HC?

We already know what to expect with Kubes staring at his Dennys menu 20-30 yds awy from the action.

thunderkyss
01-09-2011, 09:20 PM
I just thought TC meant none of them are perfect, & they all gamble on the field. When it works out, they look like geniuses. When it don't, they look like Kubiaks.

Wolf
01-09-2011, 09:37 PM
interesting too
from 2009
Wade Phillips dusted off the 46 scheme he learned from Buddy Ryan to rescue his season. Dallas played the 46 close to half the time in the Redskins rematch win and used it a lot down the stretch. Dallas has an improved coverage secondary this year, with a lot more speed at the safety position. For this reason, I expect Phillips to blitz much more heavily this year. With a trusted -- and bigger -- Keith Brooking playing MLB instead of Zach Thomas, I think Wade Philips will unleash the Bear package and its blitzes a lot, lot more this year.

-- rv

Star-divide

[Excerpt from the actual magazine article]:

Dallas limped into its bye having surrendered 439 rushing yards in its previous three games. Good teams were out muscling Dallas's front seven. On the line, only Ratliff played consistently good ball. His backup Tank Johnson, either played very well or hardly at all. The same was true of right end Chris Canty, who could dominate for a series or a quarter, and then disappear for equal amounts of time. Left end Marcus Spears was playing better football, but he lacked big play ability.

[snip]

Phillips then made a tactical switch, elevating the 46 from a change-up, third down defense to his primary scheme.

Buddy Ryan created the 46 scheme on the philosophy that the defense should dictate play to the offense. It modifies a base 4-3 scheme to maximize interior pass rush, create rush mismatches on the edges, and put eight men within five yards of the line of scrimmage to create numerical edges for the defense against running plays.

The first change involved moving the best pass rusher from end to nose tackle. In Chicago, Ryan lined up Dan Hampton between his defensive tackles. In Philadelphia, Reggie White lined up on the nose. The thinking is to put your best rusher on one of the line's weakest pass blockers one-on-one. Because two defensive tackles are playing over the offensive guards, neither one of them can help the center. On the strong side, the 46 deploys two linebackers, one on each side of the tight end. One or both of them can rush, creating an overload on that edge if the tight end releases on a pass route. On the weak side, the speed rusher lines up wide and gets to duel the tackle in space.

The scheme plays to Dallas's strengths. Dallas's best rushing lineman was already on the nose, but putting two tackles alongside him meant he could not be double teamed. DeMarcus Ware was already playing the Richard Dent/Clyde Simmons role, only from a two point stance instead of with his hand down. Bradie James emerged as a rushing linebacker in 2008 and lining him up next to Greg Ellis gave offensive coordinators headaches. Both of them finished with eight sacks and an opponent could not be sure if one or both of these skilled rushers would attack the quarterback on any given play.

The 46 also covered up the Cowboys rush weakness at inside linebacker. With three defensive linemen parked over the three interior offensive linemen, Dallas could play a smaller, speedier middle linebacker and let him float to the ball. Dallas had such a player in the 227-pound Kevin Burnett. He had excelled in coverage as Dallas's nickel backer but the coaches had been reluctant to play him on first and second downs. The 46 made him an every-down player.

What's more, the Cowboys could shift easily from set to set. They could deploy in their base set and then slide both defensive ends inside. James would then walk from his strongside inside linebacker slot to the gap vacated by the end and the 46 was in place.





http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2009/7/2/936171/cowboys-magazine-wade-phillips-and

JB
01-09-2011, 09:47 PM
Thanks for that post Wolf! That is the kind of stuff we should be talking about, instead of the same ole crap about McNair is cheap and Kubiak is stupid because he doesn't watch field goals.

DocBar
01-09-2011, 10:37 PM
interesting too
from 2009


http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2009/7/2/936171/cowboys-magazine-wade-phillips-and

Damn.I can see some Texans fitting this scheme
Must spread rep.

edo783
01-09-2011, 10:38 PM
Thanks for that post Wolf! That is the kind of stuff we should be talking about, instead of the same ole crap about McNair is cheap and Kubiak is stupid because he doesn't watch field goals.

What he said.

steelbtexan
01-09-2011, 11:08 PM
Damn.I can see some Texans fitting this scheme
Must spread rep.

Explain how you could see this.

I agree with you but would like to get your thoughts.

houstonspartan
01-10-2011, 12:22 AM
Did you even read her article? I don't think she compared them at all. She wrote



How does that compare Kubiak to them? Take a break from your haterade long enough to read before criticizing.

Did YOU even ready MY comment?.

And, yes, she was comparing Kubiak with those guys. It's a false comparision.

GP
01-10-2011, 12:27 AM
Personally, I agree with TC on this.

I think people frequently hold their own coach to a higher standard than they do other coaches and team loses, any mistake or perceived mistake (which may not have even been a mistake) is magnified.

For us, Payton and Caldwell's mistakes are no big deal but to Saints and Colts fans, there's going to be a big over-reaction.

I agree with this, but to a certain stopping point.

When you have won what those two coaches have won ( I realize Caldwell wasn't the HC when the Colts won their SB, but I digress...) you get a helluva' lot more free passes on stuff.

I reckon Saints fans, though they are pissed they are out of the playoffs now, are still looking back on their SB victory and thankful they aren't on the wrong side of history anymore.

We're just not able to see anything but Fail because that's what we are.

We have to get on the right side of the history. Then, this fan can breathe easier. I'm still able to look back on the 94 and 95 Rockets championships and rest easy knowing that we got TWO of them. In the bag. It makes being a Rockets fan so much easier today. It's all in my head, obviously, but it's what I got. It's mine. I remember where I was the night we won the first title. I ran outside, slid on the grass and pumped my fists into the air. Lived way out on the country, on a cotton farm, and nobody saw me. But the drought was over. Victory. COMPLETE victory.

That's what I want with the Texans. I was a child when the Rockets would continually fail in the playoffs. I didn't have a grown man's perspective about things. Now, I have little patience for shenanigans.

My ire for the status quo of the Texans is eating me alive.

FlyingTexan
01-10-2011, 12:28 AM
Does anyone else think that Mario could fit in to the 3-4 in a kind of Demarcus Ware type role?

If not, I'm assuming that he would play DE

GP
01-10-2011, 12:32 AM
Does anyone else think that Mario could fit in to the 3-4 in a kind of Demarcus Ware type role?

If not, I'm assuming that he would play DE

According to the story that Wolf posted, Phillips puts his best pass rusher at the NT position when we're in a 46, IIRC.

That means Mario is over the center.

How will Mario like that? How will he do with it?

Defensive guys are probably pissed right now. They've been shafted for all these years, watching the offense get the better end of the stick. And now they're thinking "Why couldn't they have fired Kubiak and brought in a HC who would get a 4-3 "style" d-coordinator? But hell nah. We gotta' learn something new. It's always us learning something new."

I wonder if there's a level of anger among the defensive players over this? I imagine a lot of them are happy to have a better chance on Sundays of being better prepared (via Wade Phillips track record as a d-coord). But I also bet there's some guys who aren't early adopters on the philosophy...unless they played some 3-4 in the past or something.

Going to be interesting to see who is buying into it and who is checking out and having a hard time connecting with it.

GP
01-10-2011, 12:41 AM
Over and out, until next weekend.

I'm sure there will be some sucky teams playing playoff games (that we aren't) that I can watch and make me come back to spread some doom and gloom here.

You know you love me....:peek:

DerekLee1
01-10-2011, 08:38 AM
Defensive guys are probably pissed right now. They've been shafted for all these years, watching the offense get the better end of the stick. And now they're thinking "Why couldn't they have fired Kubiak and brought in a HC who would get a 4-3 "style" d-coordinator? But hell nah. We gotta' learn something new. It's always us learning something new."

I wonder if there's a level of anger among the defensive players over this? I imagine a lot of them are happy to have a better chance on Sundays of being better prepared (via Wade Phillips track record as a d-coord). But I also bet there's some guys who aren't early adopters on the philosophy...unless they played some 3-4 in the past or something.

If that's their attitude, I don't want 'em here. You have a proven defensive coordinator who has made superstars of players in damn near every defensive position on the field. Every last one of them should be THRILLED that Wade Phillips is here. If the DE's are complaining because they think their stats are gonna drop in a 3-4, then (1) they don't understand a "team" concept and shouldn't be here; and (2) need to go back and look at some old Bills' footage with Bruce Smith in Wade's system. *Antonio Smith, ARE YOU LISTENING??*

DerekLee1
01-10-2011, 08:41 AM
Personally, I agree with TC on this.

I think people frequently hold their own coach to a higher standard than they do other coaches and team loses, any mistake or perceived mistake (which may not have even been a mistake) is magnified.

For us, Payton and Caldwell's mistakes are no big deal but to Saints and Colts fans, there's going to be a big over-reaction.

Throw Bellichick and Andy Reid in there as well. 4th and 2, anyone? FG attempts on 4th and an inch inside the 5? Kubiak would be beheaded here for such nonsense!

silvrhand
01-10-2011, 09:05 AM
Throw Bellichick and Andy Reid in there as well. 4th and 2, anyone? FG attempts on 4th and an inch inside the 5? Kubiak would be beheaded here for such nonsense!

I'd have less complaints too if we were CONSISTENTLY in the playoffs under Kubiak.. hell we can't even sniff em..

The Pencil Neck
01-10-2011, 10:55 AM
I agree with this, but to a certain stopping point.

When you have won what those two coaches have won ( I realize Caldwell wasn't the HC when the Colts won their SB, but I digress...) you get a helluva' lot more free passes on stuff.

I reckon Saints fans, though they are pissed they are out of the playoffs now, are still looking back on their SB victory and thankful they aren't on the wrong side of history anymore.

We're just not able to see anything but Fail because that's what we are.

We have to get on the right side of the history. Then, this fan can breathe easier. I'm still able to look back on the 94 and 95 Rockets championships and rest easy knowing that we got TWO of them. In the bag. It makes being a Rockets fan so much easier today. It's all in my head, obviously, but it's what I got. It's mine. I remember where I was the night we won the first title. I ran outside, slid on the grass and pumped my fists into the air. Lived way out on the country, on a cotton farm, and nobody saw me. But the drought was over. Victory. COMPLETE victory.

That's what I want with the Texans. I was a child when the Rockets would continually fail in the playoffs. I didn't have a grown man's perspective about things. Now, I have little patience for shenanigans.

My ire for the status quo of the Texans is eating me alive.

To me, the point was that Payton and Caldwell are getting roasted alive by their fanbases. Their mistakes are getting magnified because they lost. If they had won those games, then their mistakes wouldn't seem so egregious.

BUT, Payton and Caldwell aren't getting as lambasted by us because they're not our coaches and as coaches, they're winners. But to their respective fanbases it's a bit different, it's more personal.

Kubiak makes some mistakes and does some things that lots of other coaches make and do. And those mistakes are magnified because he hasn't been winning. And because we're Texan fans, it's easy to over-react to those things because... we want to win.

For me, after this season, I would have fired Kubiak. If you've got a 6 win team and replace the coach, the team normally wins 8-9 games the next season (iirc). I'd expect us to take a step or two back with our offense but I can't imagine our defense being any worse than it was. (I wouldn't have replaced him with Gruden or Cowher because of the history of SB winning coaches going to new teams; I would have looked in some other directions.)

But I'm being forced into defending Kubiak here because I think some people on this board over-react to his mistakes and his personality and always have. Some people don't like that he looks away during kicks (which is just silly), some people don't like that he looks at his playbook (which is just silly), some people don't like that he calls his players kids (even though they are), etc. He's made some mistakes with time management and there have been times when the team has looked unprepared and his teams have had a history of bad defense and not putting 4 quarters of good play together consistently.

And this gets back to what TC said. Because he's the coach of OUR team, it's more personal to us. And because of the number of games we lost last year, his mistakes become magnified. And I agree with that. I still would have fired him because ultimately our winning and losing is his responsibility.

(And props to DexManC for calling the 5-7 record to start the season.)

GuerillaBlack
01-10-2011, 11:43 AM
I'd have less complaints too if we were CONSISTENTLY in the playoffs under Kubiak.. hell we can't even sniff em..

Exactly. I don't know why people are trying to compare Kubiak to successful NFL coaches.

Ndevine7
01-10-2011, 11:53 AM
Im interested in seeing how wade utilizes these players whether putting cush in the middle or on the outside and with him at the helm this team could be a top 15 d if we get a quality corner

thunderkyss
01-10-2011, 12:21 PM
That's what I want with the Texans. I was a child when the Rockets would continually fail in the playoffs. I didn't have a grown man's perspective about things. Now, I have little patience for shenanigans.


I've been asked how I manage with the Texans & their 9 year history. I don't know that I'm any more patient than the next fan. I was upset at the end of 2009 that we didn't get into the play-offs. Knowing damn well, there were things the HC could've & should've done to get us there. I was furious that the 2010 season ended the way it did, again.. lots of things the HC could have done that would have changed that outcome.

Lots of things the players could've done. Lots of things the DC could have done. Lots of things the owner could have done.

The only real difference between me & someone like you GP, is that I don't go on & on about a decision that wasn't mine to make. Every decision McNair has made, is just like rolling the dice, you never know what's going to happen.

McNair allowed Kubiak to promote Frank Bush.... Benson allowed Payton to take a pay cut to hire Williams. At the end of the 2009 regular season, both decisions appeared to be a wash. The only difference, was that the Saints created more turnovers. I don't know that there is anything different with the way Williams coaches his defense or the way Bush coaches his that leads to more turnovers.... other than some players make plays, & others (Wilson hit me in the hands again) don't.

So McNair extended Kubiak after 2009... wasn't my idea, I wasn't in favor of it... obviously it didn't work. I know there are thousands of people in Houston who say, "I knew it wouldn't work" Karl Dukes being one of them. But I remember Dukes pointing to the Texans in September, saying the Cowboys are missing something the Texans had, & that's leadership. He was saying that Kubiak was on the right track, he was saying that Kubiak was doing the right things........

He doesn't say that anymore. It's his prerogative to change his mind. I don't hold that against him. I know there were many that was against the decision when it was made.

But the way some folks talk about McNair & Kubiak.... it's just not me.

I wish every decision I ever made was right. Perhaps I'd be financially independent.

Criticize the man..... I've got no problem with that. But some of the defamation.... slander, I think is a little much.

houstonspartan
01-10-2011, 12:35 PM
To me, the point was that Payton and Caldwell are getting roasted alive by their fanbases. Their mistakes are getting magnified because they lost. If they had won those games, then their mistakes wouldn't seem so egregious.

BUT, Payton and Caldwell aren't getting as lambasted by us because they're not our coaches and as coaches, they're winners. But to their respective fanbases it's a bit different, it's more personal.

Kubiak makes some mistakes and does some things that lots of other coaches make and do. And those mistakes are magnified because he hasn't been winning. And because we're Texan fans, it's easy to over-react to those things because... we want to win.

For me, after this season, I would have fired Kubiak. If you've got a 6 win team and replace the coach, the team normally wins 8-9 games the next season (iirc). I'd expect us to take a step or two back with our offense but I can't imagine our defense being any worse than it was. (I wouldn't have replaced him with Gruden or Cowher because of the history of SB winning coaches going to new teams; I would have looked in some other directions.)

But I'm being forced into defending Kubiak here because I think some people on this board over-react to his mistakes and his personality and always have. Some people don't like that he looks away during kicks (which is just silly), some people don't like that he looks at his playbook (which is just silly), some people don't like that he calls his players kids (even though they are), etc. He's made some mistakes with time management and there have been times when the team has looked unprepared and his teams have had a history of bad defense and not putting 4 quarters of good play together consistently.
And this gets back to what TC said. Because he's the coach of OUR team, it's more personal to us. And because of the number of games we lost last year, his mistakes become magnified. And I agree with that. I still would have fired him because ultimately our winning and losing is his responsibility.

(And props to DexManC for calling the 5-7 record to start the season.)

I agree that the guy shouldn't be judged on marginal things like not looking at field goals.

However, there are two sides to this "Kubiak personality" issue. Just as there are people who unfairly slam Kubiak's personality, there are equal numbers of people who want to give him a free pass because he's a nice guy.

There's one particular poster on here, when asked why he keeps defending Kubiak, said simply: "I just like the guy."

That's it. I just like the guy.

I have always said the elephant in the room that people refuse to acknowledge is Kubiak's personality. He's a great guy, and his mistakes get glossed over.

This works both ways.

Doppelganger
01-10-2011, 12:37 PM
According to the story that Wolf posted, Phillips puts his best pass rusher at the NT position when we're in a 46, IIRC.

That means Mario is over the center.

How will Mario like that? How will he do with it?

Defensive guys are probably pissed right now. They've been shafted for all these years, watching the offense get the better end of the stick. And now they're thinking "Why couldn't they have fired Kubiak and brought in a HC who would get a 4-3 "style" d-coordinator? But hell nah. We gotta' learn something new. It's always us learning something new."

I wonder if there's a level of anger among the defensive players over this? I imagine a lot of them are happy to have a better chance on Sundays of being better prepared (via Wade Phillips track record as a d-coord). But I also bet there's some guys who aren't early adopters on the philosophy...unless they played some 3-4 in the past or something.

Going to be interesting to see who is buying into it and who is checking out and having a hard time connecting with it.

Well, quite frankly, it was the defensive guys who let the team down. If anything they should be trying to do anything and everything to get better. This is a what have you done for me lately league and if you can't cut it, you are replaced and someone else gets a chance.

Secondly, the D players have no right to be angry. They were statistically one of the worst defenses of all time. Outside of Mario, Meco, and Cush nobody on the Defense has a starting spot guaranteed. Every player on every team can be replaceable at any time. If a player is unable to make the transition, I wish the player no ill will, but they need to be gone from the team. I do not cheer for players, I cheer for the team. And quite frankly, if you are a member of the defense, you have absolutely no right to feel anything other than embarrassment for the past season's performance and desire to hit the weight and study the playbook for next year.

GuerillaBlack
01-10-2011, 12:43 PM
Well, quite frankly, it was the defensive guys who let the team down. If anything they should be trying to do anything and everything to get better. This is a what have you done for me lately league and if you can't cut it, you are replaced and someone else gets a chance.

Secondly, the D players have no right to be angry. They were statistically one of the worst defenses of all time. Outside of Mario, Meco, and Cush nobody on the Defense has a starting spot guaranteed. Every player on every team can be replaceable at any time. If a player is unable to make the transition, I wish the player no ill will, but they need to be gone from the team. I do not cheer for players, I cheer for the team. And quite frankly, if you are a member of the defense, you have absolutely no right to feel anything other than embarrassment for the past season's performance and desire to hit the weight and study the playbook for next year.

It's not like the offense helped with their constant short drives and punts during the first half of games.

thunderkyss
01-10-2011, 12:47 PM
I agree that the guy shouldn't be judged on marginal things like not looking at field goals.


that's the thing. When you lose 10 games, nothing is marginal.

Winning heals all wounds.......... period.

Doppelganger
01-10-2011, 12:50 PM
It's not like the offense helped with their constant short drives and punts during the first half of games.

Agreed. But, the offense was also not in the historically awful range. They were mediocre.

El Tejano
01-10-2011, 01:02 PM
According to the story that Wolf posted, Phillips puts his best pass rusher at the NT position when we're in a 46, IIRC.

That means Mario is over the center.

How will Mario like that? How will he do with it?

Defensive guys are probably pissed right now. They've been shafted for all these years, watching the offense get the better end of the stick. And now they're thinking "Why couldn't they have fired Kubiak and brought in a HC who would get a 4-3 "style" d-coordinator? But hell nah. We gotta' learn something new. It's always us learning something new."

I wonder if there's a level of anger among the defensive players over this? I imagine a lot of them are happy to have a better chance on Sundays of being better prepared (via Wade Phillips track record as a d-coord). But I also bet there's some guys who aren't early adopters on the philosophy...unless they played some 3-4 in the past or something.

Going to be interesting to see who is buying into it and who is checking out and having a hard time connecting with it.

It's simple really. Those players brought this on themselves. Alot of teams end up with bad DCs but hardly any of them gave up the kind of numbers we did on the ground in 09 and in the air in 2010. If they aren't down with any change, then maybe they need to go.

YoungTexanFan
01-10-2011, 01:05 PM
I think the 4-6 variation would be something we could utilize well. While I'm not in favor of the 3-4 for us, I'll support it because it's all I can do. And, that is a discussion for ANOTHER THREAD people.

Now, I think it's interesting to have Mario potentially lined up over center but not as a traditional NG. Putting someone directly over all 3 interior offensive linemen forces the pocket back, assuming they do their job. I think our defensive strength is on the line. Smith, Cody, or Okoye could flank Mario and also have the option to shoot the outside B gap forcing the OT to chose between the DT or the dog blitzer. I guess the reason I'm in favor of this formation being used some is because all I can think about is our 6'7 290lb Mario getting single blocks from a center, and right in the QB's face at that. I think it would emphasize our biggest defensive asset. There aren't a lot of players in the NFL who command the attention of Mario, so maximizing his value on sets like these would be a big plus, and it gets more of our pass rushers on the field. I think Cushing, Barwin, and Anderson could all play the dog/elephant walk-up blitzer as the 4th/5th lineman.

El Tejano
01-10-2011, 01:26 PM
Well, quite frankly, it was the defensive guys who let the team down. If anything they should be trying to do anything and everything to get better. This is a what have you done for me lately league and if you can't cut it, you are replaced and someone else gets a chance.

Secondly, the D players have no right to be angry. They were statistically one of the worst defenses of all time. Outside of Mario, Meco, and Cush nobody on the Defense has a starting spot guaranteed. Every player on every team can be replaceable at any time. If a player is unable to make the transition, I wish the player no ill will, but they need to be gone from the team. I do not cheer for players, I cheer for the team. And quite frankly, if you are a member of the defense, you have absolutely no right to feel anything other than embarrassment for the past season's performance and desire to hit the weight and study the playbook for next year.

I saw the same post and responded the same way without even reading your response. I agree 100% with you. If you are a player that doesn't want to make the switch, then you are really someone who thinks what you did last year was acceptable and therefor we don't need your services.

I was talking to my brother about how Mario didn't look excited about this change and his response was the same but he also added that Mario would be awesome trade bait pointing that Mario has had 5 years to turn our pass rush around and all we've gotten from him were two seasons of above 10 sacks and alot of seasons of him having to play hurt.

Mr teX
01-10-2011, 01:27 PM
the 4-6 look will be just a variation here & there. & at any rate what's the difference? Mario lined up inside at times in Smith & Bush's "schemes". That's not counting the times when they twist & Mario had to loop inside, which most of the time resulted in him taking on double teams anyway.

BattleRedToro
01-10-2011, 01:58 PM
I think the 4-6 variation would be something we could utilize well. While I'm not in favor of the 3-4 for us, I'll support it because it's all I can do. And, that is a discussion for ANOTHER THREAD people.

Now, I think it's interesting to have Mario potentially lined up over center but not as a traditional NG. Putting someone directly over all 3 interior offensive linemen forces the pocket back, assuming they do their job. I think our defensive strength is on the line. Smith, Cody, or Okoye could flank Mario and also have the option to shoot the outside B gap forcing the OT to chose between the DT or the dog blitzer. I guess the reason I'm in favor of this formation being used some is because all I can think about is our 6'7 290lb Mario getting single blocks from a center, and right in the QB's face at that. I think it would emphasize our biggest defensive asset. There aren't a lot of players in the NFL who command the attention of Mario, so maximizing his value on sets like these would be a big plus, and it gets more of our pass rushers on the field. I think Cushing, Barwin, and Anderson could all play the dog/elephant walk-up blitzer as the 4th/5th lineman.

the 4-6 look will be just a variation here & there. & at any rate what's the difference? Mario lined up inside at times in Smith & Bush's "schemes". That's not counting the times when they twist & Mario had to loop inside, which most of the time resulted in him taking on double teams anyway.

First, it is called the 46 defense not 4-6. The number is a reference to Doug Plank's jersey number. He was a hard hitting safety on the Bears when Buddy Ryan devised the scheme.

Secondly, it is called a Stunt whenever Defensive Linemen switch places.

Rey
01-10-2011, 02:07 PM
I'm starting to like the idea of Cushing playing inside more.

I think he and Demeco in there would be a good Combo...Plus he's a big dude that is hard to move. He'd add some toughness inside.

So that'd leave Barwin and hopefully a guy like Von Miller on the outside...

Mr teX
01-10-2011, 02:10 PM
First, it is called the 46 defense not 4-6. The number is a reference to Doug Plank's jersey number. He was a hard hitting safety on the Bears when Buddy Ryan devised the scheme.

Secondly, it is called a Stunt whenever Defensive Linemen switch places.



i've heard it called both..doesn't matter, you understand what i mean.

thunderkyss
01-10-2011, 03:20 PM
According to the story that Wolf posted, Phillips puts his best pass rusher at the NT position when we're in a 46, IIRC.

That means Mario is over the center.

How will Mario like that? How will he do with it?


I think it was a situational thing. Reggie White & Bruce Smith were not NTs. It was something done from time to time, to create a mismatch, generate pressure.

It's not like they lined up there every down.


If Mario wants to be mentioned in the same conversation with those two guys, he best zip it & play.

thunderkyss
01-10-2011, 03:21 PM
I'd have less complaints too if we were CONSISTENTLY in the playoffs under Kubiak.. hell we can't even sniff em..

We got a sniff in 2009.

BattleRedToro
01-10-2011, 04:26 PM
i've heard it called both..doesn't matter, you understand what i mean.

No, it does matter because 4-6 implies the use of 6 linebackers which the 46 does not employ.

Mr teX
01-10-2011, 04:38 PM
No, it does matter because 4-6 implies the use of 6 linebackers which the 46 does not employ.

OK john madden, I wasn't even talking about that part of it; i acknowledged you were right in that regard....i was talking about your stunt reference..i've heard people reference it as just a twist as well.