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EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:10 PM
Of course i love AJ, who doesnt, but behind him what are we working with.


Well we have Kevin Walter whom it seems gets lost in the game, Sometimes i forget he is even playing, and it seems the ball is rarely thrown his way. Is this Schaub fault or does he have trouble getting open ??? Not sure.

Then we have Jacoby Jones who in the final 2 games of the season stepped it up, and kinda showed me MAYBE just MAYBE he can be a soild # 2 WR. But then again he dropped way to many catchable passes this season and he has not been the same PR he was in his first 2 seasons.

Then David Anderson, yeah i like the guy but he is undersized and dont have much speed. does have good hands though. Still i think we need to look else where.

Then we have Dorin Dickerson, now i didnt see much from him, i was hoping with AJ out the last 2 games he would get more PT, well that didnt happen we pretty much went to 2 WR sets. I figured itd be a chance to evaluate his talent, guess Kubiak figured different. He did have one play at the end of the titans game where he beat his man deep but caught the ball out of bounds.

I think we need to draft a big physical fast guy in the draft at WR, our maybe go after a younger up and coming WR in FA.

Sorry if i got off on the wrong foot with some of yall. I'm here to talk football i got tired of houstontexans.com so here i am.

TexanAggie89
01-06-2011, 07:22 PM
I said this earlier also. We can probably get Justin Blackmon early in the second round (Im VERY high on him, hes like a bigger Dez Bryant). Or wait a few rounds and maybe pick up Jeff Fuller if he declares.

HJam72
01-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Jacoby is never going to stop dropping passes. He is what he is.

He's proven that he can be a WR in this league, but he's also proven that he is unreliable.

I actually like both KW and JJ, but at this point I'm OK with looking for something better. I'm tired of KW disappearing and JJ dropping his balls everywhere.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 07:27 PM
Of course i love AJ, who doesnt, but behind him what are we working with.


Well we have Kevin Walter whom it seems gets lost in the game, Sometimes i forget he is even playing, and it seems the ball is rarely thrown his way. Is this Schaub fault or does he have trouble getting open ??? Not sure.

Then we have Jacoby Jones who in the final 2 games of the season stepped it up, and kinda showed me MAYBE just MAYBE he can be a soild # 2 WR. But then again he dropped way to many catchable passes this season and he has not been the same PR he was in his first 2 seasons.

Then David Anderson, yeah i like the guy but he is undersized and dont have much speed. does have good hands though. Still i think we need to look else where.

Then we have Dorin Dickerson, now i didnt see much from him, i was hoping with AJ out the last 2 games he would get more PT, well that didnt happen we pretty much went to 2 WR sets. I figured itd be a chance to evaluate his talent, guess Kubiak figured different. He did have one play at the end of the titans game where he beat his man deep but caught the ball out of bounds.

I think we need to draft a big physical fast guy in the draft at WR, our maybe go after a younger up and coming WR in FA.

Sorry if i got off on the wrong foot with some of yall. I'm here to talk football i got tired of houstontexans.com so here i am.

I like talking football, so here it goes......

I wouldnt be to upset if we took a WR with our 2nd or 3rd pick. Not the first, and it only depends on what/who we get with our 1st.

I haven't seen or done any mock drafts yet so Im not really sure who would fall down to those spots but if he's BPA and we have filled our need with our 1st and/or 2nd pick, then yes, grab a big, fast animal to compliment our passing game.

Walter and Anderson are great role players. JJ seems to have either regressed OR not gained any ground in my eyes. I thought this year would be his breakout year and I feel like I saw a crap load of dropped passes. He showed some flashes of brilliance in the return game but nothing to write home about.

I wouldnt mind trading him for an extra draft pick or something.

He's a depth WR as of right now as far as Im concerned so whatever we do with him won't impact us to bad. Im indifferent on what we do with him at this point.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 07:29 PM
I said this earlier also. We can probably get Justin Blackmon early in the second round (Im VERY high on him, hes like a bigger Dez Bryant). Or wait a few rounds and maybe pick up Jeff Fuller if he declares.

I would like this but I got a feeling his stock will go up the closer we get to the draft. I don't want to spend a first rounder a WR as we have bigger needs elsewhere but if its Blackmon, Id do it in the 2nd.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:35 PM
I said this earlier also. We can probably get Justin Blackmon early in the second round (Im VERY high on him, hes like a bigger Dez Bryant). Or wait a few rounds and maybe pick up Jeff Fuller if he declares.

i wouldnt mind getting a wr in the 2nd round, as long as they think he has potential to one day play as a #1 guy, we need someone we can groom under AJ. Kinda like the harrison, Wayne relationship with the colts.

Texanmike02
01-06-2011, 07:53 PM
If you really want an impact WR its going to have to come through free agency. Guys that make a difference at WR their first year are just too hard to come by and honestly with us switching to a 34 defense I don't want us spending anything before a 5th round pick on him.

Mike

Texanmike02
01-06-2011, 07:54 PM
i wouldnt mind getting a wr in the 2nd round, as long as they think he has potential to one day play as a #1 guy, we need someone we can groom under AJ. Kinda like the harrison, Wayne relationship with the colts.

Yeah but do you know how long it took for Wayne to become a legit #2? I was an Indy fan while we had no team here... he was a Goat for 3 or 4 years it seems like.

Mike

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:56 PM
If you really want an impact WR its going to have to come through free agency. Guys that make a difference at WR their first year are just too hard to come by and honestly with us switching to a 34 defense I don't want us spending anything before a 5th round pick on him.

Mike

i agree though our draft needs to be a defensive draft, as that is our main problem, especially if we go to a 3-4

The1ApplePie
01-06-2011, 08:59 PM
If a WR is the BPA, take him.

OLB or NT will probably be the pick, but if all the good ones are gone, there is no need to reach for a guy (see Amobi)

With all the QBs and the usual run of LTs, a lot of good d-linemen slip to the 2nd or even 3rd.

spurstexanstros
01-06-2011, 09:03 PM
i wouldnt mind getting a wr in the 2nd round, as long as they think he has potential to one day play as a #1 guy, we need someone we can groom under AJ. Kinda like the harrison, Wayne relationship with the colts.

Jacoby was a third round pick and you want us to subsitute broken in pro for a rookie with virtually the same pic I dont follow the logic.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:06 PM
Jacoby was a second round pick and you want us to subsitute broken in pro for a rookie with the same pic I dont follow the logic.

ur telling me all LBs that come out of the second round are as good as demeco ryans, and that all first round picks like sam bradford will succeed. If we choose another WR in the 3rd/2nd it wont be J.J it will be someone else.

And i mentioned above that we need to focus the draft on defense.

silvrhand
01-06-2011, 09:07 PM
Sorry if i got off on the wrong foot with some of yall. I'm here to talk football i got tired of houstontexans.com so here i am.

That's fine but you are just covering stuff that we have beat down all year already, look through the searches. There has been a lot of negativity here lately with the way the season went..

So good football talk is one thing blindly just assaulting players and not listening to well thought out responses is another.

spurstexanstros
01-06-2011, 09:18 PM
ur telling me all LBs that come out of the second round are as good as demeco ryans, and that all first round picks like sam bradford will succeed. If we choose another WR in the 3rd/2nd it wont be J.J it will be someone else.

And i mentioned above that we need to focus the draft on defense.

Where have you been? can you name the last offensive player taken in the first round? 1 in the last five years. They have been focusing on defense.

If there is one right thing about the Texans its our WR (and TEs)core. It has been one of the best in the league for the last 3 years. They are good and make plays when needed. remember even AJ drops the ball from time to time ( see San Diego game)

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:20 PM
Where have you been? can you name the last offensive player taken in the first round? 1 in the last five years. They have been focusing on defense.

If there is one right thing about the Texans its our WR (and TEs)core. It has been one of the best in the league for the last 3 years. They are good and make plays when needed. remember even AJ drops the ball from time to time ( see San Diego game)

but u see my point,,,a WR we draft in the 3rd could be bad ass compared to J.J. look at arian foster who went undrafted.

CretorFrigg
01-06-2011, 09:24 PM
but u see my point,,,a WR we draft in the 3rd could be bad ass compared to J.J. look at arian foster who went undrafted.

Ellis is right. It would be nice to sign another WR. I don't know what's up with Kevin Walter; he rarely gets passes thrown his way, and Jacoby Jones has dropped more balls than puberty.

Seeing that Andre's the only legitimate receiver we have right now, I can see us addressing the WR position in the draft.

spurstexanstros
01-06-2011, 09:27 PM
but u see my point,,,a WR we draft in the 3rd could be bad ass compared to J.J. look at arian foster who went undrafted.

no i still think WR core is fine as is. I think we shoulda been drafting secondary years ago instead of collecting dlineman that we now are going to get rid of.

and now we are probably going to use first round pic on the very sexy position of nose tackle....sigh another d line bust is on the way.

Carr Bombed
01-06-2011, 09:30 PM
If you really want an impact WR its going to have to come through free agency. Guys that make a difference at WR their first year are just too hard to come by and honestly with us switching to a 34 defense I don't want us spending anything before a 5th round pick on him.

Mike

This is no longer true. Look at all of the rookie WRs that have been able to come into the league and make a impact from day 1 the last few years. With all of the spread offenses now in college, WRs come straight into the league and make a impact from day one pretty often now.

This offense needs some spice and some speed. If Andre isn't making huge plays in the passing game, no one really does. Who in this offense can catch a 6 yard slant and turn it into a 90 yard TD? I want a Percy Harvin/DeSean Jackson/Jacoby ford type of receiver. A true slant receiver, who can also play outside.

spurstexanstros
01-06-2011, 09:33 PM
no i still think WR core is fine as is. I think we shoulda been drafting secondary years ago instead of collecting dlineman that we now are going to get rid of.

and now we are probably going to use first round pic on the very sexy position of nose tackle....sigh another d line bust is on the way.

a caviat to this is If Julio Jones is around I would take him

silvrhand
01-06-2011, 09:37 PM
a caviat to this is If Julio Jones is around I would take him

Not sure if I would take Julio either though, he can't seem to stay very healthy...

Carr Bombed
01-06-2011, 09:42 PM
With Arian Foster and Ben Tate, we're going to be able to sell alot of PA passes (assuming he's talented) and with Matt Schaub's occasionally struggles on the deep ball we could use a guy who can catch a short pass and take it to the house. It'd compliment our offense REALLY well. Jones doesn't look as fast with his added size and Walter isn't beating anyone, neither is Anderson.

silvrhand
01-06-2011, 09:53 PM
With Arian Foster and Ben Tate, we're going to be able to sell alot of PA passes (assuming he's talented) and with Matt Schaub's occasionally struggles on the deep ball w could use a guy who can catch a short pass and take it to the house. It'd compliment our offense REALLY well. Jones doesn't look as fast with his added size and Walter isn't beating anyone, neither is Anderson.

Percy Harvin clone anyone?

HOU-TEX
01-07-2011, 10:18 AM
Dunno about y'all, but I'm going to count on DD being more productive next season. The dude's an athlete and if he truly is following AJ like a lost dog, then I expect him to begin making strides starting this off-season. Don't get me wrong, I would ***** about grabbing one on the last draft day.

A random HOU-TEX observation from the past: JJ has the smallest hands of any WR I've ever seen. I'm not saying they are his problem, but they surely can't help

GP
01-07-2011, 10:23 AM
Walter had a fantastic year in 2009. I think it was his best year ever.

This year? He, IMO, was abandoned by Schaub a lot. And I don't know why. Maybe the lack of a running game LAST year is what made Schaub go to the WRs more in 2009? I dunno.

But I think he's one of the guys in 2010 that I think was slighted a bit. He's better than his 2010 numbers show.

Rey
01-07-2011, 10:29 AM
Walter had a fantastic year in 2009. I think it was his best year ever.

This year? He, IMO, was abandoned by Schaub a lot. And I don't know why. Maybe the lack of a running game LAST year is what made Schaub go to the WRs more in 2009? I dunno.

But I think he's one of the guys in 2010 that I think was slighted a bit. He's better than his 2010 numbers show.

He was abandoned by Schaub because he didn't get a whole lot of separation from DB's.

Really the only guy Schaub throws to in traffic is Andre. He doesn't have the arm to consistently throw the ball into tight spaces. So if he's going to throw the ball with a DB in the area it's going to be to Andre because he knows that Andre can beat the DB for the ball....

No other receiver on the roster can really do that. ..Well, maybe Dickerson can but we haven't seen much of him...

Rey
01-07-2011, 10:30 AM
If I'm the Texans, I would look for a replacement for Walter. I think he'd be an excellent role player but he is miscast as a starting receiver in this offense with this QB. JMO.

dc_txtech
01-07-2011, 10:33 AM
Walter had a fantastic year in 2009. I think it was his best year ever.

This year? He, IMO, was abandoned by Schaub a lot. And I don't know why. Maybe the lack of a running game LAST year is what made Schaub go to the WRs more in 2009? I dunno.

But I think he's one of the guys in 2010 that I think was slighted a bit. He's better than his 2010 numbers show.

Walter had his career year in '08, in '09 he missed the beginning of the season with a pulled hammy. He has not gotten back to '08 form since.

GP
01-07-2011, 10:43 AM
He was abandoned by Schaub because he didn't get a whole lot of separation from DB's.

Really the only guy Schaub throws to in traffic is Andre. He doesn't have the arm to consistently throw the ball into tight spaces. So if he's going to throw the ball with a DB in the area it's going to be to Andre because he knows that Andre can beat the DB for the ball....

No other receiver on the roster can really do that. ..Well, maybe Dickerson can but we haven't seen much of him...

I don't know how Walter can go from good to bad in one season, though.

It's possible that there's enough tape on Walter that defenses know where he's going. Last year, he got behind a lot of DBs and was wide open a lot. The instances of that happening this year, IMO and if I recall correctly, was a lot less than in 2009.

Plus, he's a possession-type receiver. Last year, he was targeted a lot on crucial 3rd downs. He had a knack for getting a yard past the first down marker and snagging a curl route.

Overall, the passing game seemed a lot less dynamic than it did in 2009. Last year, it seemed there were more creative pass routes and a good mix of things. This year felt like the vast majority of pass plays were slow, long-developing pass plays that took years to develop.

GP
01-07-2011, 10:44 AM
Walter had his career year in '08, in '09 he missed the beginning of the season with a pulled hammy. He has not gotten back to '08 form since.

Hmmm...

Could have sworn last year he had a great year.

Maybe I have '08 and '09 mixed up, like you say.

Ole Miss Texan
01-07-2011, 10:47 AM
I said this earlier also. We can probably get Justin Blackmon early in the second round (Im VERY high on him, hes like a bigger Dez Bryant). Or wait a few rounds and maybe pick up Jeff Fuller if he declares.
I think WR is our biggest weakness on Offense if you ask me. We all love AJ. I like Walter and definitely think he has a place on this team. Dickerson has the upside. Jacoby, Anderson and Davis are guys that I wouldn't lose any sleep over if they leave (and I love Anderson).

I'm a big proponent of getting a lot of our Defensive issues taken care of during Free Agency to fill the holes: NT,DE, OLB, CB, S. Next, I'm a big proponent of taking the best playmakers from the draft.

If we can get our 'holes' on defense somewhat filled during FA... I would actually be happy with Justin Blackmon at #11. I think he's the 2nd WR taken and is definitely a 1st rounder. People will think I'm crazy but I kinda like it. That's assuming he's BPA and is better than the Defensive players available.

Rey
01-07-2011, 10:52 AM
I don't know how Walter can go from good to bad in one season, though.

It's possible that there's enough tape on Walter that defenses know where he's going. Last year, he got behind a lot of DBs and was wide open a lot. The instances of that happening this year, IMO and if I recall correctly, was a lot less than in 2009.

Look at the defense we played that year compared to this year.


Plus, he's a possession-type receiver. Last year, he was targeted a lot on crucial 3rd downs. He had a knack for getting a yard past the first down marker and snagging a curl route.

Right, which is why he would be a good role player at the position. IMO, he is not dynamic enough to be a starter with Schaub at the QB position.

Overall, the passing game seemed a lot less dynamic than it did in 2009. Last year, it seemed there were more creative pass routes and a good mix of things. This year felt like the vast majority of pass plays were slow, long-developing pass plays that took years to develop.

That's what happens when you play good defenses as opposed to poor/mediocre defenses.

infantrycak
01-07-2011, 11:57 AM
Yeah Schaub's arm is just so noodly he can't do anything well, can't find WR's not named AJ, can't throw to tight spaces, yada, yada - well other than be 2nd two years in a row for completions over 20 yards and rack up 9000 yards in two seasons. Six receivers had over 30 receptions. That would be the same as Manning, 1 more than Brady, 3 more than Rivers.

Rey
01-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Yeah Schaub's arm is just so noodly he can't do anything well, can't find WR's not named AJ, can't throw to tight spaces, yada, yada - well other than be 2nd two years in a row for completions over 20 yards and rack up 9000 yards in two seasons. Six receivers had over 30 receptions. That would be the same as Manning, 1 more than Brady, 3 more than Rivers.

All the while he has lead a losing team.

Great for him.

Kudos to Schaub for putting up stats!

infantrycak
01-07-2011, 01:04 PM
All the while he has lead a losing team.

Great for him.

Kudos to Schaub for putting up stats!

Quite the compelling argument. After all winning is all on the QB right, hence your wanting to bring VY here?

spurstexanstros
01-07-2011, 05:32 PM
Quite the compelling argument. After all winning is all on the QB right, hence your wanting to bring VY here?

I just wish he would stop throwing those lawn darts and pic 6s that cost us games this year. Even with those he is light years better than VY.

infantrycak
01-07-2011, 05:47 PM
I just wish he would stop throwing those lawn darts and pic 6s that cost us games this year. Even with those he is light years better than VY.

See here is an area I think Kubiak deserves criticism. Schaub has said he intentionally throws balls shallow rather than over to make sure the WR has a play. Schaub isn't doing that all alone. That's a philosophy from a coach or it would get corrected. Having said that, that is taking advantage of AJ - he can go get the ball. Folks think Schaub is mis-throwing balls when he is placing it back shoulder to get it past LB's, etc. His ball placement is excellent. But instead the discussion around here is Kubiak coaches Smith to jump offsides.

HuttoKarl
01-07-2011, 05:55 PM
I think we need to draft a faster TE and convert him to WR.

michaelm
01-07-2011, 05:56 PM
Jacoby Jones has dropped more balls than puberty.

Freakin Hilarious. This will be the first quote from another TT member that I've ever used as a sig...

REP!

Rey
01-07-2011, 08:13 PM
Quite the compelling argument. After all winning is all on the QB right, hence your wanting to bring VY here?

You were the one rattling off stats when I was talking about things that actually take place on the field...

Isn't the W in the W/L column the ultimate stat?

Why take your toy and go home when you are the one that brought it out for everyone to play with?

infantrycak
01-07-2011, 09:00 PM
You were the one rattling off stats when I was talking about things that actually take place on the field...

Isn't the W in the W/L column the ultimate stat?

Why take your toy and go home when you are the one that brought it out for everyone to play with?

Duh, W v. L is just another stat. All of them are made on the field. Get a grip. These absurd assertions of Schaub not being able to go long and not being able to hit tight spaces are just that, absurd.

This is like the injury prone assertion. For two years now he hasn't missed a game. So much for the injury prone label. And go back and check who made the assertion this time. I called you and others on your assertion Schaub was a noodle armed, can't hit the deep ball, can't hit tight spaces QB which frankly (and I was too polite to say it the first time) makes you look like you've never watched a Schaub run game.

Rey
01-07-2011, 09:53 PM
Duh, W v. L is just another stat. All of them are made on the field. Get a grip. These absurd assertions of Schaub not being able to go long and not being able to hit tight spaces are just that, absurd.

This is like the injury prone assertion. For two years now he hasn't missed a game. So much for the injury prone label. And go back and check who made the assertion this time. I called you and others on your assertion Schaub was a noodle armed, can't hit the deep ball, can't hit tight spaces QB which frankly (and I was too polite to say it the first time) makes you look like you've never watched a Schaub run game.

Go back and watch the film...

Schaub doesn't throw anything on a rope..Very little zip on his throws.

Everything is a lob pass...

That's a very easy observation to make.

Doesn't make him a bad QB....He just doesn't have the strongest arm.

spurstexanstros
01-07-2011, 10:36 PM
See here is an area I think Kubiak deserves criticism. Schaub has said he intentionally throws balls shallow rather than over to make sure the WR has a play. Schaub isn't doing that all alone. That's a philosophy from a coach or it would get corrected. Having said that, that is taking advantage of AJ - he can go get the ball. Folks think Schaub is mis-throwing balls when he is placing it back shoulder to get it past LB's, etc. His ball placement is excellent. But instead the discussion around here is Kubiak coaches Smith to jump offsides.

I dont think Kubiak deserves blame on that tough. I have seen our Wrs taken out of stride and more often than not sit and wait on the ball which alot of times is under thrown. I dont think you are coached to under throw the balls.Also do you notice that schaub throws right at the receivers or behind them. If Od or AJ have running starts when the get the ball they are guaranteed big gains. Where i do think Kubiak desrves criticism is being too conservative at the start of games and not throwing the ball more than 20 yards. I think with Andre Johnson we need to have defenses thinking deep ball from the get go, get the defense back on their heels. it is going to make it easier for running game and the short crossing patterns as well as give OD (YES WE SHOULD RESIGN HIM) plenty of room in the middle. I think as good as our passing game is and as good as running game was last year they should play like they are down 10 from the get go, put pressure on the other teams to score and not vice versa.

JB
01-07-2011, 11:00 PM
I dont think Kubiak deserves blame on that tough. I have seen our Wrs taken out of stride and more often than not sit and wait on the ball which alot of times is under thrown. I dont think you are coached to under throw the balls.Also do you notice that schaub throws right at the receivers or behind them. If Od or AJ have running starts when the get the ball they are guaranteed big gains. Where i do think Kubiak desrves criticism is being too conservative at the start of games and not throwing the ball more than 20 yards. I think with Andre Johnson we need to have defenses thinking deep ball from the get go, get the defense back on their heels. it is going to make it easier for running game and the short crossing patterns as well as give OD (YES WE SHOULD RESIGN HIM) plenty of room in the middle. I think as good as our passing game is and as good as running game was last year they should play like they are down 10 from the get go, put pressure on the other teams to score and not vice versa.

Pretty good points. You remember the Seattle game from last year? First play of the game Schaub hits AJ on a go route for a TD, iirc? I truly think that our receivers out run Schaub's arm when he does a play action. I think Schaub is one of the best at play action, but is much better on double moves and plays that take time to develop than he is on straight drop back quick release plays.

infantrycak
01-08-2011, 10:07 AM
Go back and watch the film...

Schaub doesn't throw anything on a rope..Very little zip on his throws.

I have been at (home games) and watched every single Texan game.

Schaub has stated he intentionally leaves balls short rather than long. You can tell it isn't a lack of strength because he'll do it on a 30 yard in the air pass and then later put one 45 yards in the air. If you recall HWWNBN he would have wide open WR's and overthrow them by 5 yards. This crew makes sure the WR at least has a play on the ball. The zip thing is incorrect as well. Watch and you see some perfectly lofted like to JJ in the back of the endzone and you'll see others lasered into a tight space like to OD with one trailing DB and a LB coming across in the opposite direction. Kind of funny with the no zip comment as some of the NFL talking heads within the last couple weeks criticized Schaub for having too flat a trajectory. Apparently people don't appreciate what they are seeing. Sure Schaub makes bad throws. Every QB does. But when you see OD extending to get a low outside ball it is often because that was exactly where only he could get it. Balls to the back shoulder often put them in the position where only our guy can get it and leave the DB with no option of hacking the receivers arms.

michaelm
01-08-2011, 10:28 AM
Balls to the back shoulder often put them in the position where only our guy can get it and leave the DB with no option of hacking the receivers arms.

If that's the case, something needs to be done to get the receivers more separation so they can catch the ball in stride instead of having to go back-shoulder for it so often.

I can't back it up with stats, but my very strong feeling is that overall, we do a poor job of getting the ball into a receiver's hands on the move so he can get up field.

If Schaub is putting the ball where he wants it so well, then that must mean that our receivers are not getting open enough to be in a position to catch balls in stride, therefore, Schaub has to make these back shoulder passes.

My perception is that (whether by design or not) Schuab's passes on vertical routes tend to be under-thrown, and his passes on crossing route tend to be thrown a bit behind the receiver.

Anyone know where I can find stats on YAC? I would be surprised if the Texans are in the top half of the league in that category, despite the high passing yardage generated.

infantrycak
01-08-2011, 10:33 AM
Anyone know where I can find stats on YAC? I would be surprised if the Texans are in the top half of the league in that category, despite the high passing yardage generated.

2nd in the league on YAC - Link (http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Passing&range=NFL&rank=230)

michaelm
01-08-2011, 10:58 AM
2nd in the league on YAC - Link (http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Passing&range=NFL&rank=230)

Thanks. I have to say I'm completely surprised.
I'm still not convinced I'm wrong about Schuab throwing behind his receivers, and I think we both agree that he throws his vertical passes short (I'll take you at your word that it's by design, because I've never heard anything regarding that one way or the other).
The first question that popped into my head re: the YAC stat was how much of that is Arian Foster?

infantrycak
01-08-2011, 11:37 AM
The first question that popped into my head re: the YAC stat was how much of that is Arian Foster?

Well it can't be any more than 604 yards of the 2100+ YAC yards since that was his receiving total.

Hey I'd like a little more on some of the deep balls as well. I'm just saying it seems to be a matter of choice rather than inability. That and sometimes QB's throw things to different spots and fans just think it is inaccurate. There was an example in the top 10 plays from last weekend I want to say to Roddy White - CB was front and inside on the sideline so QB threw the ball shallow and to White's outside shoulder. White had to turn all the way around and virtually stop but only he could get the ball.

Rey
01-08-2011, 12:46 PM
I have been at (home games) and watched every single Texan game.

Schaub has stated he intentionally leaves balls short rather than long. You can tell it isn't a lack of strength because he'll do it on a 30 yard in the air pass and then later put one 45 yards in the air. If you recall HWWNBN he would have wide open WR's and overthrow them by 5 yards. This crew makes sure the WR at least has a play on the ball. The zip thing is incorrect as well. Watch and you see some perfectly lofted like to JJ in the back of the endzone and you'll see others lasered into a tight space like to OD with one trailing DB and a LB coming across in the opposite direction. Kind of funny with the no zip comment as some of the NFL talking heads within the last couple weeks criticized Schaub for having too flat a trajectory. Apparently people don't appreciate what they are seeing. Sure Schaub makes bad throws. Every QB does. But when you see OD extending to get a low outside ball it is often because that was exactly where only he could get it. Balls to the back shoulder often put them in the position where only our guy can get it and leave the DB with no option of hacking the receivers arms.

I know what you are talking about. I have heard Schaub say that he does that intentionally.

I really don't have a comment about that.

I am talking about his lack of arm strength.

Look at how Manning, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, Even Big Ben....Look at how they hit receivers in the seam with a defender one or two steps behind them. Look at the zip they put on the ball. Look at how they throw the ball so that a receiver can run under it....Those guys throw the ball with Zip but they still have some touch when they throw it. Look at how they hit receivers going horizontally across the field.

Compare their deep and intermediate balls to Schaub's. Very rarely is he willing to zip the ball into a receiver or throw it to them with a defender very close to them unless it's Andre. His arm isn't strong enough. If you zip the ball in fast enough a lot of times the defender can't react to it fast enough. Matt doesn't do that...He isn't that type of QB...

Having touch, accuracy and a strong arm are not mutually exclusive.

There are no words that can tell me about Schaubs throwing when I have witnessed it in person and on film compared to other QB's.

He does not have a very strong arm.

Like I said and will continue to say...That doesn't mean he is a bad QB, but it does limit him a little...

And for the record, arm strength does not have as much to do with long vertical passes as it has to do with short to intermediate passes. Getting the ball to the receiver fast with some velocity.

Matt doesn't do that.

infantrycak
01-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Very rarely is he willing to zip the ball into a receiver or throw it to them with a defender very close to them unless it's Andre. His arm isn't strong enough. If you zip the ball in fast enough a lot of times the defender can't react to it fast enough. Matt doesn't do that...He isn't that type of QB...

If you can say this I don't know what you are watching. Matt threads the ball into tight coverage all the time and not just to AJ. I understand the deep ball comments but this one makes no sense.

Rey
01-08-2011, 12:59 PM
If you can say this I don't know what you are watching. Matt threads the ball into tight coverage all the time and not just to AJ. I understand the deep ball comments but this one makes no sense.


That is not something Matt is comfortable with...I think the Baltimore game where he threw the pick in the end is a good example.

That was a pretty routine throw. If it was something he was comfortable with and did all the time I think he would have completed that pass. Terrible throw by Matt. There was no zip on that ball and Jacoby didn't even have any shot at knocking the ball away from the defender.


But it's cool, I have my opinion, you have yours. No harm in that.

The Pencil Neck
01-08-2011, 01:14 PM
I know what you are talking about. I have heard Schaub say that he does that intentionally.

I really don't have a comment about that.

I am talking about his lack of arm strength.

Look at how Manning, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, Even Big Ben....Look at how they hit receivers in the seam with a defender one or two steps behind them. Look at the zip they put on the ball. Look at how they throw the ball so that a receiver can run under it....Those guys throw the ball with Zip but they still have some touch when they throw it. Look at how they hit receivers going horizontally across the field.

Compare their deep and intermediate balls to Schaub's. Very rarely is he willing to zip the ball into a receiver or throw it to them with a defender very close to them unless it's Andre. His arm isn't strong enough. If you zip the ball in fast enough a lot of times the defender can't react to it fast enough. Matt doesn't do that...He isn't that type of QB...

Having touch, accuracy and a strong arm are not mutually exclusive.

There are no words that can tell me about Schaubs throwing when I have witnessed it in person and on film compared to other QB's.

He does not have a very strong arm.

Like I said and will continue to say...That doesn't mean he is a bad QB, but it does limit him a little...

And for the record, arm strength does not have as much to do with long vertical passes as it has to do with short to intermediate passes. Getting the ball to the receiver fast with some velocity.

Matt doesn't do that.

For me, this is like saying... jeez, I wish Arian was faster and made better reads.

Schaub may not have the strongest arm in the league. But he does hit more guys in stride than he's given credit for and he does complete more long passes than he's given credit for. But the guy is one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

Trying to squeeze more production out of the QB spot is like trying to squeeze more production out of our starting RB last year. Can it be done? Yes. Is it a priority? Well, for those players it should be. They should be looking to improve. But of all the things to talk about wrt improving this team, it should be low, low, low on the list.

But back to our WRs. KW had 800+ yards and 60+ catches in 2007 and 2008 but that dropped 600+ yards and 50+ catches in 2009 and 2010. It's not really that much of a drop off but it is a drop off. Some of those catches went to Jacoby Jones whose receptions went from 27 to 51 and of course the increased production from the RB spot (44 catches for 417 yards for Slaton in 2009 to 66 receptions for 604 yards for Foster in 2010).

But for the past couple of years, KW just doesn't seem to make the clutch catches as much as he did in 2007 and 2008. He was money those years. He hasn't been the same.

Jacoby drops a lot of passes. I said it earlier in the season, I prefer David Anderson to Jacoby Jones because Anderson is going to catch the damned pass. Jacoby's better deep speed and playmaking ability don't mean squat if he drops the ball.

To me, the most important receiver (besides Andre) in our receiving corp is Owen Daniels. When Owen is on the field and making plays, the entire offense seems to take off. It's not the same with Dreessen or James Casey.

Going into this season, I thought our WR corp was solid and a strength of the team; after this season, I'm not so sure about that. I think it could use some work. I'll be interested to see if Dorin Dickerson makes some improvement but I'd be very amenable with drafting a guy and/or pulling in a free agent to shake up this receiving corps and improve the performance.

Rey
01-08-2011, 01:18 PM
For me, this is like saying... jeez, I wish Arian was faster and made better reads.

No it's nothing like that.

I didn't say "I wish" anything....

Besides, Arian is fast enough and he makes great reads. He always performs, has exceptional qualities with the most important one being consistency.

Arian Foster is a better Running back than Matt Schaub is a QB. Or at least he was this past season.

Seems like the rest of your post is trying to convince me that Schaub is a good QB....I do not disagree with that.

My only statement was that he does not have a very strong arm. That's it.

By him not having a very strong arm, he is somewhat limited....That's just a fact. He makes up for it with some of his other qualities, but it is evident at times that his lack of arm strength is a hindrance.

Rey
01-08-2011, 01:35 PM
But back to our WRs. KW had 800+ yards and 60+ catches in 2007 and 2008 but that dropped 600+ yards and 50+ catches in 2009 and 2010. It's not really that much of a drop off but it is a drop off. Some of those catches went to Jacoby Jones whose receptions went from 27 to 51 and of course the increased production from the RB spot (44 catches for 417 yards for Slaton in 2009 to 66 receptions for 604 yards for Foster in 2010).

But for the past couple of years, KW just doesn't seem to make the clutch catches as much as he did in 2007 and 2008. He was money those years. He hasn't been the same.

Jacoby drops a lot of passes. I said it earlier in the season, I prefer David Anderson to Jacoby Jones because Anderson is going to catch the damned pass. Jacoby's better deep speed and playmaking ability don't mean squat if he drops the ball.

Yeah, I think if there is a receiver on the board in the first or second round that is rated far ahead of the defensive players then we should take him.



To me, the most important receiver (besides Andre) in our receiving corp is Owen Daniels. When Owen is on the field and making plays, the entire offense seems to take off. It's not the same with Dreessen or James Casey.

Owen is a very good TE when healthy. The only problem is that throughout his career he has struggled with that a bit. He has this reoccurring thing with his knee and while we are waiting on him to get back into the flow of things we could have some more able bodied guys in there.

I have not seen nearly enough of Casey to say that the offense wouldn't run as smoothly with him in there.

And while I don't think Dreesen is exactly the receiving threat that OD is, I do think he is more than capable.

That said, I agree with you that OD is very valuable to our offense. Initially I wanted to trade him and get what we could, but now I think that I'd rather trade Dreesen. He's gotten his name out there, teams know he has skills...Plus he hasn't had the health issues so he may fetch a little more. I'd package him and Amobi if it were possible and try to pick up an extra pick.

OD, Casey, Grahm and Anthony Hill would be a good group I think.

The Pencil Neck
01-08-2011, 02:00 PM
No it's nothing like that.

I didn't say "I wish" anything....

Besides, Arian is fast enough and he makes great reads. He always performs, has exceptional qualities with the most important one being consistency.

Arian Foster is a better Running back than Matt Schaub is a QB. Or at least he was this past season.

Seems like the rest of your post is trying to convince me that Schaub is a good QB....I do not disagree with that.

My only statement was that he does not have a very strong arm. That's it.

By him not having a very strong arm, he is somewhat limited....That's just a fact. He makes up for it with some of his other qualities, but it is evident at times that his lack of arm strength is a hindrance.

Yeah, see, my point is that both Schaub and Foster are more than good enough to get the job done. Foster isn't the fastest guy on the field but he's fast enough to break long runs. And even though he missed a few reads here and there, he has excellent vision.

With Schaub, he doesn't have the strongest arm in the world but I don't see that it hurts his game that much. He can make all the throws AND he throws a catchable ball. A lot of guys with cannon arms don't throw catchable balls.

Where Foster led the league in rushing this year, Schaub led the league in passing yardage last year.

They're both very good.

The Pencil Neck
01-08-2011, 02:01 PM
OD, Casey, Grahm and Anthony Hill would be a good group I think.

I'll be interested to see how Graham develops. I think he'll end up better than Casey or Dreessen.

PHAROAH
01-09-2011, 10:33 AM
Draft the best available player at #11 as the top CB's & DT will be gone at #11 and if OLB Von Miller is gone at that spot then if WR J. Blackman or Julio Jones are sitting there I think the texans either take one of them or move back in the draft. I say draft the best available player instead of depending just on Andre Johnson go after Julio Jones if he falls to us as Andre is getting close to 30 and we need another serious option at WR. Then use the rest of the NFL draft on Defense and they have to spend some cash in F/A and they must go after some serious players instead of the conservative good guy approach they take when signing players.

DocBar
01-09-2011, 02:11 PM
I would like to see the Texans go after Steve Breaston. Rumor has it, he's available.
Kent Somers of the Arizona Republic thinks that the Cardinals are taking a big risk by not signing wide receiver Steve Breaston to a long-term deal before the end of the season.

Breaston is 27 and won't break the bank. More importantly, Breaston is tough, cares about winning, produces in the clutch and plays a position of need. Without the security of a long-term offer, Breaston was forced to assume all the risk of injury in 2010.In his fourth season, Breaston played this year under a one-year tender offer of $2.4 million. He led the team's receivers in yards per catch (16.1) and receptions of at least 20 yards (15). But the Cardinals have shown little interest in re-signing him.

After waiting this long without an offer, Breaston has to be intrigued about finding out his worth in free agency and he likely will not be inclined to give the Cardinals the right of first refusal. Linebacker Karlos Dansby and safety Antrel Rolle didnít when they left earlier this year.

Breastonís departure also could send a negative message to other Cardinals players. No player worked harder to make himself relevant than did Breaston.

DocBar
01-09-2011, 02:12 PM
As far as Schaubs arm goes, I see some good zip on deep balls when he can step into his throws. On long balls, he sometimes has too much pressure to do that, though.

False Start
01-09-2011, 06:06 PM
I would like the Texans to go after another top notch WR myself. The group we have right now, is getting up there. Its time to bring in badass at WR to help AJ out as well. I would love to see what this offense could do with a duel threat at receiver.

otisbean
01-09-2011, 06:28 PM
I would like the Texans to go after another top notch WR myself. The group we have right now, is getting up there. Its time to bring in badass at WR to help AJ out as well. I would love to see what this offense could do with a duel threat at receiver.

Me too. Our offense with a better #2wr with a healthy OD would be sick.