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View Full Version : Kuharsky blog: Laughs at Texans attempt to act as if Wade wasn't targeted


GP
01-06-2011, 09:35 AM
Not much in this blog that will shock you. A good one-liner ZING! by Lance Z that I hadn't known about until now, among other things from Paul Kuharsky.

The Texans shot down a report Tuesday that Wade Phillips had been hired. Crazy, the tone was. He hasn’t even interviewed.

So today he interviewed and he’s hired.

How could anyone have jumped the gun like that?

I poured out my thoughts on Phillips as the Texans defensive coordinator last week when his name was first reported. That’s here.

He’s obviously steeped in 3-4 defenses, but it sounds like he and Gary Kubiak will look at what the Texans have and decide what kind of team to be. Phillips is known as 3-4 guy but has worked some 4-3. I’d envision them staying in a 4-3 only as part of a transition.

Houston radio guy and blogger Lance Zierlein had a good line recently about the decision. Paraphrasing, he asked what does it matter if they don’t have the personnel for a 3-4 when they don’t have the personnel for a 4-3 either?

Mario Williams isn’t ideally suited for it. But people probably said the same thing about Bruce Smith, and I don’t remember a major career derailment when he played for Phillips in Buffalo.

While the change could take some time, it might be a good thing. Give Peyton Manning and the rest of the division something different to dissect, be the one team deploying people differently.

"How could anyone have jumped the gun like that?" - Kuharsky sarcasm

You see, this Texans organization doesn't do anything that surprises anyone. Not in the form of hiring, nor in how we gameplan for opponents, nor in how we retain people. Predictable, consistent, narrow-minded, comfy.

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 10:06 AM
Not much in this blog that will shock you. A good one-liner ZING! by Lance Z that I hadn't known about until now, among other things from Paul Kuharsky.



"How could anyone have jumped the gun like that?" - Kuharsky sarcasm

You see, this Texans organization doesn't do anything that surprises anyone. Not in the form of hiring, nor in how we gameplan for opponents, nor in how we retain people. Predictable, consistent, narrow-minded, comfy.

Look, everyone knew it was coming. But they still had to go through the formality. It would be disrespectful to lots of people to do it differently. Hiring Wade while you still have a DC? Hiring a DC without publicly allowing your HC to interview him? You can't undermine people like that. It goes against coaching etiquette and you'll run off potential future coaches if you look classless.

tedr
01-06-2011, 10:09 AM
Look, everyone knew it was coming. But they still had to go through the formality. It would be disrespectful to lots of people to do it differently. Hiring Wade while you still have a DC? Hiring a DC without publicly allowing your HC to interview him? You can't undermine people like that. It goes against coaching etiquette and you'll run off potential future coaches if you look classless.

Good point.

GP
01-06-2011, 10:14 AM
Good point.

No, not a good point.

Look, all the Texans had to do was admit that Wade Phillips was at the top of their list. Is that so hard to do? Texans should just be honest, for a change.

I receive a fail for believing that some transparency is still a good thing? Oh, OK.

Nobody was surprised by this, that's true, so why the reindeer games? That's the point, I think, that Kuharsky was making. He said he called them and asked for comment, and they replied with a "You're crazy!" tone for assuming, as we all did, that all signs pointed to Wade Phillips.

LOL.

Double Barrel
01-06-2011, 10:22 AM
Shoot, I called the Wade hiring the week he was fired by Jerrah.

It was just so obvious, so made-to-order for Boob's fairy tale that he desires for this franchise, that it was a no-brainer. I would have been shocked if it had worked out any other way.

I'm not claiming to be a guru or prophet, but after watching this floundering franchise since it's inception, some things are are easy to call a mile - or a couple of months - away.

What's disappointing is McNair's handling of it. Instead of being a man and treating his customerfans with respect, he lies to Bob Allen like a slimy politician and marketing trots out the dog and pony show once again. It's a chump move and while I'm a Texans fan for life, I don't have to care for ol' Boob anymore [oh, yeah, eternal gratitude statement goes here] .

I'm fine with Wade being DC, because what choice do I have? Hope for the best and expect...well, expect the Houston Texans.

Dutchrudder
01-06-2011, 10:25 AM
So did they interview anyone else for the job? I have not heard a single other name linked to the Texans DC job.

scourge
01-06-2011, 10:25 AM
Not much in this blog that will shock you. A good one-liner ZING! by Lance Z that I hadn't known about until now, among other things from Paul Kuharsky.



"How could anyone have jumped the gun like that?" - Kuharsky sarcasm

You see, this Texans organization doesn't do anything that surprises anyone. Not in the form of hiring, nor in how we gameplan for opponents, nor in how we retain people. Predictable, consistent, narrow-minded, comfy.

nice find, hadn't seen it before. I agree with you on your take as well.


*edit*

Shoot, I called the Wade hiring the week he was fired by Jerrah.

It was just so obvious, so made-to-order for Boob's fairy tale that he desires for this franchise, that it was a no-brainer. I would have been shocked if it had worked out any other way.

I'm not claiming to be a guru or prophet, but after watching this floundering franchise since it's inception, some things are are easy to call a mile - or a couple of months - away.

What's disappointing is McNair's handling of it. Instead of being a man and treating his customerfans with respect, he lies to Bob Allen like a slimy politician and marketing trots out the dog and pony show once again. It's a chump move and while I'm a Texans fan for life, I don't have to care for ol' Boob anymore [oh, yeah, eternal gratitude statement goes here] .

I'm fine with Wade being DC, because what choice do I have? Hope for the best and expect...well, expect the Houston Texans.

Agree with this as well.




On a side note, is the Rooney Rule for HC jobs only? I honestly don't care and think it's a rather stupid policy, and should instead just be about qualifications. Not to mention I have no doubt that many just interview a minority with no intention of hiring just to say they did, but that's besides the point. I'm just curious if only HC jobs are bound by Affirmative Action.

Malloy
01-06-2011, 10:27 AM
I would deny everything too until the contract was signed :)

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 10:28 AM
No, not a good point.

Look, all the Texans had to do was admit that Wade Phillips was at the top of their list. Is that so hard to do? Texans should just be honest, for a change.

I receive a fail for believing that some transparency is still a good thing? Oh, OK.

Nobody was surprised by this, that's true, so why the reindeer games? That's the point, I think, that Kuharsky was making. He said he called them and asked for comment, and they replied with a "You're crazy!" tone for assuming, as we all did, that all signs pointed to Wade Phillips.

LOL.

They DID admit that Wade was on their list. And if Kuharsky called ANYONE about a coaching vacancy before a coach has been interviewed, they'd get the same response. Jerrah did the same thing about Garrett.

I don't see why everyone thinks they're being "lied to". No one from the organization came out and said "Kubiak's fired" and then went back on it. No one said "Wade will not be our next DC" and then hired him. No one is lying; they're just going through etiquette and contractual obligations and processes.

Why's everyone gotta find something to ***** about?

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 10:29 AM
So did they interview anyone else for the job? I have not heard a single other name linked to the Texans DC job.

There was a report that they called Marv Lewis, but he was out once the Bengals extended his contract.

nero THE zero
01-06-2011, 10:37 AM
There was a report that they called Marv Lewis, but he was out once the Bengals extended his contract.

AJ says it best (http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/texans-wrap-up-exhaustive-search-for-new-defensive-coordinator), as per usual:

Shortly after Allen's report hit the wire, John McClain of the Houston Chronicle published an article that disputed Allen's report but I sense the deal is done and Wade's 'interview' on Wednesday is simply a formality.

Highly conspicuous in McClain's article, and all the more reason to believe Allen's report is true, is the somewhat odd, and out-of-the blue lead sentence that Gary Kubiak contacted Marvin Lewis before he was re-hired by the Bengals.

And uh...err...uh...Wade Phillips is up next.

Sounds like a cover to me.

Double Barrel
01-06-2011, 10:38 AM
I don't see why everyone thinks they're being "lied to".

Did you watch the Bob Allen interview?

McNair came across like a politician and was plain disingenuous. And we all know that politicians don't lie, they just misrepresent the truth.

But hey, like we've been reminded time and time again, it's his team so screw what the fans think. Hmmmm, just like a politician and government, come to think of it. :thinking:

GP
01-06-2011, 10:49 AM
They DID admit that Wade was on their list. And if Kuharsky called ANYONE about a coaching vacancy before a coach has been interviewed, they'd get the same response. Jerrah did the same thing about Garrett.

I don't see why everyone thinks they're being "lied to". No one from the organization came out and said "Kubiak's fired" and then went back on it. No one said "Wade will not be our next DC" and then hired him. No one is lying; they're just going through etiquette and contractual obligations and processes.

Why's everyone gotta find something to ***** about?

I think it's this idea that the Texans have, that they are super-secret and nobody knows what they are doing...when we know, by now, damn well what they are doing. It's the whole "don't insult my intelligence" thing.

And apparently, Paul Kuharsky doesn't like it either.

Look, we're not exactly ripping up the NFL here are we? I mean, is our grand plans for global domination going to be compromised just because someone with the Texans decides to admit some things.

The word is out. We all know, now, how this owner thinks. There's no more mystery. No more intrigue. No more speculation. The book is at the printing press, it's hitting store shelves in 2011.

Furthermore, IMO, all the Texans did was put out a fluffy feeler to Marvin Lewis' agent...asking if he'd even be interested--that is, IF and only IF he was done in Cincy--about being the d-coord here. Knowing, all the time, that by the time anything was done up in Cincy...Wade would have already interviewed and be hired. And if Lewis agent bit the bait, you can bet your butt that the Wade interview would have been ramped up to an earlier time.

We used Marvin Lewis as a cover, which is funny when we sit here and discuss how free agents have used the Texans as leverage with other interested teams. Yeah, I bet Kubiak called Marvin and they went and played golf and it was just almost a done deal until Marvin decided to re-up in Cincy. Keyshawn Johnson time....

Instead of just going out, and grabbing their guy, they put on the pretense that there was an actual "race" and that actual candidates existed.

One year, Kubiak gets stuck with Richard Smith. Kubiak says that's not working out, and he wants HIS guy in there (Bush) and McNair lets him get his guy. Then, Kubiak's guy didn't pan out...so McNair says "OK, Gary, now it's my turn to spin the bottle and choose a guy."

This team's management is like fourth grade recess crap. Your turn. My turn. Ooo! You suck! OK, now it's my turn. Elderly leading kids. It's like putting your 80-year-old grandfather in charge of the 8-year-old for the weekend. There's no limit to the shenanigans that will go on.

Doppelganger
01-06-2011, 10:54 AM
So did they interview anyone else for the job? I have not heard a single other name linked to the Texans DC job.

They "talked" to marvin lewis before he stayed with Cincy.

I am sure they also "looked" at Bush. So there you go three candidates!

GP
01-06-2011, 10:58 AM
They "talked" to marvin lewis before he stayed with Cincy.

I am sure they also "looked" at Bush. So there you go three candidates!

I think you also see the disingenuous nature of it all.

Yep. We had three candidates, everything was done above level.

Carry on.

GP
01-06-2011, 11:00 AM
I imagine that this is what it's like to be a career military man.

Does Bob have a background in military? I hear lots of goofy stories about how the system works and how it's broken and abused by its inherent flaws that allow the abuse to occur over and over in a state perpetuity.

General McNair. Captain of the Good Ship Lollipop. edit: LOLlipop.

Yankee_In_TX
01-06-2011, 11:02 AM
Did you watch the Bob Allen interview?

McNair came across like a politician and was plain disingenuous. And we all know that politicians don't like, they just misrepresent the truth.

But hey, like we've been reminded time and time again, it's his team so screw what the fans think. Hmmmm, just like a politician and government, come to think of it. :thinking:

...and things like if McNair truly said in one interview that the lockout would NOT affect coaching decisions and with Bob Allen said it was deiniftely a part off their decision.

GP
01-06-2011, 11:07 AM
This team's actions betray their words.

Hence, the lack of trust and the less-than-flattering things we are saying right now.

The book is out. Anybody can read it now. Not sure what all the hubbub is about. It is what it is.

michaelm
01-06-2011, 11:10 AM
Historically, the Texans have never announced any kind of signing until it was 100% official.
I can't recall a single instance where they announced any kind of personnel move until it was official, despite the fact there there were various credible sources saying that deals were already agreed upon, or signed.
I know there have been many instances on these board where people wondered why player acquisitions haven't been announced by the team despite the fact that it was common knowledge that the deals were done.

This was handled poorly, thats for sure, but in my mind it follows their established MO of not announcing anything about personnel moves until they are officially done.
Admittedly, they did look like asses by denying it they way they did...

GP
01-06-2011, 11:16 AM
Admittedly, they did look like asses by denying it they way they did...

Number one rule in Public Relations: "Perception IS reality."

A commonly-held perception will define your organization.

Until you decide to change the perception to something YOU want it to be.

And things like this, what the Texans did (and what they do constantly), provides the public with a perception that is not flattering.

Over time, the undesirable perception can erode the organization's clout and influence upon its customer base. In this instance, it will lead to the owner (McNair) being forced (at some point) to TRAUMATICALLY alter the perception that is held by his fan base.

Players fall victim to it, as well, meaning it will become harder to attract top-flight free agents. They want money, no doubt, but they want glory too. Bob cannot offer this to them at the current moment. He offers them a fancy, nice facility and no state sales tax.

And if it continues, the perception might be impossible to break until a true Super Bowl-contending team is consistently produced here every season. And please tell me how this is done without grabbing several key free agents who are not risks/gambles, but rather a proven commodity?

Therefore, "perception" IS reality. Until the owner/management decides to change it in traumatic fashion. It's an uphill climb, I'm afraid. Both ways, and every day that ends in "Y."

HoustonFrog
01-06-2011, 11:16 AM
I'm going to let Rick Gosselin answer this question with a Cowboy question he answered today in his chat. I know there is a difference between looking for a new coach and doing due diligence by asking who might be interested but I think his answer applies to both(and some might say McNair did this but really?)(also, reading a Gosselin chat and a General chat is like reading F. Scott Fitzgerald and Dr. Seuss)

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/cowboys/stories/010711dnspochatgosselin.850fb12f.html

[Comment From MarkMark: ]
Hey Rick, I'm not completely sold on Garrett, but there really isn't much choice, is there? Is he the best there is, or the best available?

Thursday January 6, 2011 10:21 Mark
10:26 Rick Gosselin: I've said a couple times in recent weeks, if I had a choice between Jason Garrett and Bill Cowher, I'd take Cowher. Jerry Jones owed it to his fan base -- a fan base that's being asked to pay upwards of $100,000 for PSLs and $300 for game tickets -- to interview the best possible candidates for the job as head coach of the Cowboys. If Jones didn't talk to Cowher and Jim Harbaugh, he has short-changed his fans. Maybe Garrett is the best candidate -- but you won't know unless you talk to them all. Then make your decision. Jerry locked in on Jason Garrett the moment he fired Wade. I think Garrett has the makings of a fine head coach. But these next few years are going to be a learning experience for him. If the Cowboys are, in fact, all about winning Super Bowls, Jones probably would have gone after a more experienced head coach that gives him a better chance of winning now

GP
01-06-2011, 11:19 AM
The reason people don't like negative, or reality-based posts on a message board, is because it interrupts their daydream fantasy realm they want to enter when they come onto cyberspace.

We're rocking the boat, making the road a little more bumpy than it should be.

This *trauma, I'm afraid, can be too hard for some to handle.

TexansFanatic
01-06-2011, 11:43 AM
I don't see why everyone thinks they're being "lied to".

It's probably because we're being lied to.

This organization first displayed its predilection for prevarication way back when Tony Boselli was on the roster. They kept telling us over and over again that he was going to play when they knew damned well he wasn't.

Then they told us he was originally only taken as part of a deal with Jacksonville which would allow the Texans to acquire more of Jacksonville's players. Like they always knew he was never going to play, but it was necessary for them to take him to get that deal. Oh, so I guess that explains why he was being touted as the cornerstone of the new team----the left tackle who would protect the back of the franchise.

What a crock of ****.

I understand an organization's need to finesse certain issues. What I object to is this organization's lying about things they don't need to lie about and then doing such a poor job of it that it's an insult to their fans' intelligence.

Dishman
01-06-2011, 11:47 AM
Look, everyone knew it was coming. But they still had to go through the formality. It would be disrespectful to lots of people to do it differently. Hiring Wade while you still have a DC? Hiring a DC without publicly allowing your HC to interview him? You can't undermine people like that. It goes against coaching etiquette and you'll run off potential future coaches if you look classless.

This sounds just like how an opposing offense would describe our defense.

GP
01-06-2011, 11:48 AM
It's probably because we're being lied to.

This organization first displayed its predilection for prevarication way back when Tony Boselli was on the roster. They kept telling us over and over again that he was going to play when they knew damned well he wasn't.

Then they told us he was originally only taken as part of a deal with Jacksonville which would allow the Texans to acquire more of Jacksonville's players. Like they always knew he was never going to play, but it was necessary for them to take him to get that deal. Oh, so I guess that explains why he was being touted as the cornerstone of the new team----the left tackle who would protect the back of the franchise.

What a crock of ****.

I understand an organization's need to finesse certain issues. What I object to is this organization's lying about things they don't need to lie about and then doing such a poor job of it that it's an insult to their fans' intelligence.

You worded it better than I did. Good job.

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 11:53 AM
It's probably because we're being lied to.

This organization first displayed its predilection for prevarication way back when Tony Boselli was on the roster. They kept telling us over and over again that he was going to play when they knew damned well he wasn't.

Then they told us he was originally only taken as part of a deal with Jacksonville which would allow the Texans to acquire more of Jacksonville's players. Like they always knew he was never going to play, but it was necessary for them to take him to get that deal. Oh, so I guess that explains why he was being touted as the cornerstone of the new team----the left tackle who would protect the back of the franchise.

What a crock of ****.

I understand an organization's need to finesse certain issues. What I object to is this organization's lying about things they don't need to lie about and then doing such a poor job of it that it's an insult to their fans' intelligence.

Dodging questions and tiptoeing around answers is not lying.

And Yankee, you had it backwards. McNair told Allen the lockout did NOT affect his decision-making, and someone else said in an article - without quoting McNair - said it did. That article sounded more like an assumption to me than a quote from McNair.

In any business, there are politics. I think it's the same reason Cowher won't coach this year. When that list of Cowher's "preferred teams" came out, it sent him through the roof. It's poor taste to covet a job with a position already filled. Same reason McNair couldn't come out and say ON THE RECORD that Wade was the next DC. They had to go through the proper etiquette and formality. Not for the fans, but for the NFL fraternity. That's why McClain and Allen and Berman all knew that Wade was "the guy" before it was official. All that stuff was off the record or through sources other than the Texans brass.

If you really feel like you're being lied to, I don't understand why you're still around. You wouldn't stay in a marriage with a liar, would you? Quit being a pansy when your feelings get hurt.

TexansFanatic
01-06-2011, 11:57 AM
Dodging questions and tiptoeing around answers is not lying.

LOL Wut?

This is called lying by omission. It is deception, plain and simple.

TimeKiller
01-06-2011, 12:02 PM
On a side note, is the Rooney Rule for HC jobs only? I honestly don't care and think it's a rather stupid policy, and should instead just be about qualifications. Not to mention I have no doubt that many just interview a minority with no intention of hiring just to say they did, but that's besides the point. I'm just curious if only HC jobs are bound by Affirmative Action.

Anyone looking at this with their racism glasses on is a foolish, foolish person. Like, they probably need to be locked in a hole somewhere so that their stupidity doesn't spread.

As for the Texans lying, all I have to say is OD should be ready to go by the beginning of this season :rolleyes: and Demeco should be ready to go by next season.....:uhohface:

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 12:03 PM
LOL Wut?

This is called lying by omission. It is deception, plain and simple.

Wait...not answering a question is lying? If I say, "no comment", or "I don't want to talk about it" or "it's not the right time to discuss this", then I'm DECEIVING you?

When asked if Gary was coming back, he said "we have to go through a process". How is that lying? Yeah, he didn't answer, but how Bushleague would it have been to have said, "yeah, he's gone" on a tv interview before talking to him? Or, "yeah, he's staying, but I'm making him fire his buddy". Almost as bad.

Whether it's a done deal internally or not, it would be COMPLETELY tasteless to pull that crap on a post-game tv interview. Show some class.

TexansFanatic
01-06-2011, 12:16 PM
Wait...not answering a question is lying? If I say, "no comment", or "I don't want to talk about it" or "it's not the right time to discuss this", then I'm DECEIVING you?

You used the term "dodging questions and tiptoeing around answers" which I personally consider a bit different than offering a "no comment." But if you've agreed to an interview and then you don't answer questions, then you're not exactly being forthcoming.




Whether it's a done deal internally or not, it would be COMPLETELY tasteless to pull that crap on a post-game tv interview. Show some class.

If you feel that way, then why aren't you outraged that the organization allowed Bum Phillips on the sideline during practice before the end of the season to discuss the possibility of Wade Phillips taking over the DC duties while Frank Bush was still actively handling the DC duties not more than a few dozen yards away?

ChampionTexan
01-06-2011, 12:17 PM
And Yankee, you had it backwards. McNair told Allen the lockout did NOT affect his decision-making, and someone else said in an article - without quoting McNair - said it did. That article sounded more like an assumption to me than a quote from McNair.



There was a second interview with the AP that is the one folks are citing when they say he contradicted himself. As you say, he indicated to Bob Allen that the potential lock out did not effect his decision to keep Kubiak. Here's a blurb from the interview the AP did with McNair (including quotes as opposed to assumptions):

"Continuity makes it easier to be ready, as opposed to if you completely changed your systems, and the players weren’t around to be taught the new system," McNair said. "And then you come back to play and you’re trying to start out with a new system, and the players aren’t properly prepared. That could be a very difficult situation, and we certainly don’t want to find ourselves in that boat."

LINK (http://www.khou.com/sports/Bob-McNair-says-bad-year-will-make-Kubiak-better-112894469.html)

GNTLEWOLF
01-06-2011, 12:26 PM
Wait...not answering a question is lying? If I say, "no comment", or "I don't want to talk about it" or "it's not the right time to discuss this", then I'm DECEIVING you?

When asked if Gary was coming back, he said "we have to go through a process". How is that lying? Yeah, he didn't answer, but how Bushleague would it have been to have said, "yeah, he's gone" on a tv interview before talking to him? Or, "yeah, he's staying, but I'm making him fire his buddy". Almost as bad.

Whether it's a done deal internally or not, it would be COMPLETELY tasteless to pull that crap on a post-game tv interview. Show some class.

I wasn't going to respond to any of this but I have to call BS on this. I can't believe the glasses you view Mcnair through are so rose colored that you can't see this was a total lie. He already knew when asked that question that Kubiak was coming back. He as much as said so in his rousing "vote of confidence" speech to the team. He didn't have any frigging process to go through , other than the one to try and BS fans who were ready to roast a short sighted owner and a clUeless GM and HC. So that was a blatant lie! And one fans already knew was a lie.
Next, I don't see how it would have been classless at all to just admit that he liked the way Kubiak was handling the team and Kubiak was his guy and "Yes he is coming back". Then He could have added ( and without it being classless I might add) that together they would be looking into solving the problems that existed.
Instead, He chose a classless and obvious lie when he didn't have to.

But, No, Bottom line Bob just can't bring himself to have any real class and he has to lie for some unknown reason. And the really sad thing is, because he brought pro football back to Houston, there are some fans that will devour, digest and enjoy the flavor of this hot steaming crap that he puts out as if it is pure ambrosia. He is a lier period. I am grateful he brought football back. I just wish he cared about the quality of said product and I wish he cared about developing trust with his customers. He doesn't. It is the money. We have seen what he is, and it ain't pretty.

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 12:32 PM
You used the term "dodging questions and tiptoeing around answers" which I personally consider a bit different than offering a "no comment." But if you've agreed to an interview and then you don't answer questions, then you're not exactly being forthcoming.

Fair enough. I retract the dodging and tiptoeing response.

If you feel that way, then why aren't you outraged that the organization allowed Bum Phillips on the sideline during practice before the end of the season to discuss the possibility of Wade Phillips taking over the DC duties while Frank Bush was still actively handling the DC duties not more than a few dozen yards away?

We can all only guess why Bum and Pastorini were on the field. I honestly haven't heard why they were there. On one of the radio shows I heard the teaser, "The real story why Bum and Dan were at practice today, and it's not what you guys are thinking. Up next after the break." And I never heard. But everyone had been calling in speculating that Bum was stumping for Wade, so it apparently wasn't for that reason. I'd like to know, though, if anyone DID hear what the "real" reason they were there was.

J_R
01-06-2011, 12:36 PM
Told Bob Allen he hadn't made his mind up about Kubiak. - BS
Told Bob Allen potential lockout wouldn't influence his decision. - BS
Said that they were going to do a search for DC. - BS

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 12:39 PM
I wasn't going to respond to any of this but I have to call BS on this. I can't believe the glasses you view Mcnair through are so rose colored that you can't see this was a total lie. He already knew when asked that question that Kubiak was coming back. He as much as said so in his rousing "vote of confidence" speech to the team. He didn't have any frigging process to go through , other than the one to try and BS fans who were ready to roast a short sighted owner and a clUeless GM and HC. So that was a blatant lie! And one fans already knew was a lie.

Next, I don't see how it would have been classless at all to just admit that he liked the way Kubiak was handling the team and Kubiak was his guy and "Yes he is coming back". Then He could have added ( and without it being classless I might add) that together they would be looking into solving the problems that existed.

Instead, He chose a classless and obvious lie when he didn't have to.

Told Bob Allen he hadn't made his mind up about Kubiak. - BS
Told Bob Allen potential lockout wouldn't influence his decision. - BS
Said that they were going to do a search for DC. - BS

Of COURSE he knew that he was keeping Kubiak. And of COURSE he knew he was bringing in Wade. My point is to make that announcement on an interview BEFORE DISCUSSING WITH HIS COACHES would have been completely classless. Those discussions were the "process".

If you were going to fire an employee or kick someone out of your house, are you going to do it in an internet blog or a company memo or in front of the workforce at a company picnic? Or will you do the classy thing and tell them in private to their face? What if someone at that company picnic asks in front of everyone, "So are you gonna fire Steve?" Are you gonna say, "of course I am. He's so outta here"

It's the same thing. He's trying to be classy about it, not deceptive.

GNTLEWOLF
01-06-2011, 12:45 PM
Of COURSE he knew that he was keeping Kubiak. And of COURSE he knew he was bringing in Wade. My point is to make that announcement on an interview BEFORE DISCUSSING WITH HIS COACHES would have been completely classless. Those discussions were the "process".

If you were going to fire an employee or kick someone out of your house, are you going to do it in an internet blog or a company memo or in front of the workforce at a company picnic? Or will you do the classy thing and tell them in private to their face? What if someone at that company picnic asks in front of everyone, "So are you gonna fire Steve?" Are you gonna say, "of course I am. He's so outta here"

It's the same thing. He's trying to be classy about it, not deceptive.

The point is...he could have been honest about keeping Kubiak without saying he was gonna fire anybody. The "process" part was classless and a BS lie. He didn't have to use that. We all knew, and even Bush knew that there would be no process. To me, just using that front is one of the most classless things he could have done. Once again, he didn't have to say he was going to fire anybody, just be honest about keping his illegitamate son.

MojoX
01-06-2011, 12:48 PM
This *trauma, I'm afraid, can be too hard for some to handle.

Says the guy in a cybertiff because the Texans lied to him....

The reality that needs to be coped with is the fact that our opinions mean jack squat to this organization. They are going to conduct their business along the model they believes works and if any of us don't like it, we can take our irrational, jingoistic fandom to another team. No one has a larger vested interest in this team than the man who put part of his personal fortune into this boat.

The hilarity in all this is that folks are too busy with their group think therapy session, trying to make ever decision a personal affront, that they have let go of talking football. No matter what McNair did, there were going to be complaints and imagined conspiracies. Instead of "oh they locked on to Wade too soon and didn't do due diligence and anyone who thinks other wise is a pansy," had the Texans gone a different route, taken their time to convince the public they were diligent and lost Wade to another team or even fired Kubiak just to here the latest rumor that Cowher might not want to coach after all it would be "Oh the Texans don't know how to commit to a decision and dare to be great. They waffled and lost out on the top talent and anyone who thinks otherwise is a pansy."

For right or wrong, McNair saw hiring one of the top defensive coordinator candidates as a game of musical chairs: you wait too long and you find yourself without a seat. He was aggressive and made a move hoping to give his new DC - considered one of the best in the business - top choice in finding assistants. In the process, they called up one other dude who declined. That is all we know publicly. That doesn't mean that is all that has happened.

Oh and I don't have to imagine any of this because McNair said so in a prominently placed video on his team's website.

Oh and for those who haven't followed other teams, they all lie to the public, with or without sugar on top.

wagonhed
01-06-2011, 12:50 PM
The amount of smoke the Texans organization blows up our asses is at best annoying and at worst treacherous.

Fans have basically zero reason to listen to a single ****ing word they say. It's probably a calculated lie.

If that helped us win (HAH), then ok. But it doesn't. It's just another bullshit tactic from an incompetent owner.

scourge
01-06-2011, 12:52 PM
Anyone looking at this with their racism glasses on is a foolish, foolish person. Like, they probably need to be locked in a hole somewhere so that their stupidity doesn't spread.

As for the Texans lying, all I have to say is OD should be ready to go by the beginning of this season :rolleyes: and Demeco should be ready to go by next season.....:uhohface:

Not looking at it with "racism glasses" at all. I was simply asking because with head coaches they can't just immediately hire someone without going through the process. What I was getting at, was did they really even interview anyone else? If the Rooney Rule is not just for HC's, then I would assume they would have HAD to at least interview one other candidate if only for the sake of interviewing a minority.

Basically, did they really even bother looking at anyone else to the extent of talking with them with an open possibility of hiring them over Wade?

My thought, is no. That seemed to be apparent when the have Bum/Pastorini before the season is even over at practices hyping up Gary as well as comments about Wade coming over.

Bum has direct ties with the Texans.
Both him and Wade have direct ties with the city.
Both love Gary/Bob.
Bob/Gary love them.

Seemed inevitable

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 12:54 PM
Says the guy in a cybertiff because the Texans lied to him....

The reality that needs to be coped with is the fact that our opinions mean jack squat to this organization. They are going to conduct their business along the model they believes works and if any of us don't like it, we can take our irrational, jingoistic fandom to another team. No one has a larger vested interest in this team than the man who put part of his personal fortune into this boat.

The hilarity in all this is that folks are too busy with their group think therapy session, trying to make ever decision a personal affront, that they have let go of talking football. No matter what McNair did, there were going to be complaints and imagined conspiracies. Instead of "oh they locked on to Wade too soon and didn't do due diligence and anyone who thinks other wise is a pansy," had the Texans gone a different route, taken their time to convince the public they were diligent and lost Wade to another team or even fired Kubiak just to here the latest rumor that Cowher might not want to coach after all it would be "Oh the Texans don't know how to commit to a decision and dare to be great. They waffled and lost out on the top talent and anyone who thinks otherwise is a pansy."

For right or wrong, McNair saw hiring one of the top defensive coordinator candidates as a game of musical chairs: you wait too long and you find yourself without a seat. He was aggressive and made a move hoping to give his new DC - considered one of the best in the business - top choice in finding assistants. In the process, they called up one other dude who declined. That is all we know publicly. That doesn't mean that is all that has happened.

Oh and I don't have to imagine any of this because McNair said so in a prominently placed video on his team's website.

Oh and for those who haven't followed other teams, they all lie to the public, with or without sugar on top.

THIS! YES!!
:bravo:

MojoX
01-06-2011, 12:56 PM
The point is...he could have been honest about keeping Kubiak without saying he was gonna fire anybody. The "process" part was classless and a BS lie. He didn't have to use that. We all knew, and even Bush knew that there would be no process. To me, just using that front is one of the most classless things he could have done. Once again, he didn't have to say he was going to fire anybody, just be honest about keping his illegitamate son.

Perhaps what you think of as process is not what they think of as process. It is conceivable that McNair favored bringing back Kubiak but stuck to a schedule in which the decision would not be made until a specific post season meeting occurred. I know I do it all the time with my children and my work. Doesn't make me a liar. Just gives me space to change my mind and think before I commit.

It is also possible that as part of their process the organization reviewed and ranked various candidates and upon having Kubiak fire his defensive staff they moved quickly to resolve the situation.

Dunno, just trying to add some perspective to the convo.

BullNation4Life
01-06-2011, 01:00 PM
Says the guy in a cybertiff because the Texans lied to him....

The reality that needs to be coped with is the fact that our opinions mean jack squat to this organization. They are going to conduct their business along the model they believes works and if any of us don't like it, we can take our irrational, jingoistic fandom to another team. No one has a larger vested interest in this team than the man who put part of his personal fortune into this boat.

The hilarity in all this is that folks are too busy with their group think therapy session, trying to make ever decision a personal affront, that they have let go of talking football. No matter what McNair did, there were going to be complaints and imagined conspiracies. Instead of "oh they locked on to Wade too soon and didn't do due diligence and anyone who thinks other wise is a pansy," had the Texans gone a different route, taken their time to convince the public they were diligent and lost Wade to another team or even fired Kubiak just to here the latest rumor that Cowher might not want to coach after all it would be "Oh the Texans don't know how to commit to a decision and dare to be great. They waffled and lost out on the top talent and anyone who thinks otherwise is a pansy."

For right or wrong, McNair saw hiring one of the top defensive coordinator candidates as a game of musical chairs: you wait too long and you find yourself without a seat. He was aggressive and made a move hoping to give his new DC - considered one of the best in the business - top choice in finding assistants. In the process, they called up one other dude who declined. That is all we know publicly. That doesn't mean that is all that has happened.

Oh and I don't have to imagine any of this because McNair said so in a prominently placed video on his team's website.

Oh and for those who haven't followed other teams, they all lie to the public, with or without sugar on top.

^^^My new Personal Hero!!!^^^:bravo:

They got who THEY wanted, hopefully Wade gets who HE needs and the defense does what IT's suppose to...Stomp mud holes into QBs and walk them dry....

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Not looking at it with "racism glasses" at all. I was simply asking because with head coaches they can't just immediately hire someone without going through the process. What I was getting at, was did they really even interview anyone else? If the Rooney Rule is not just for HC's, then I would assume they would have HAD to at least interview one other candidate if only for the sake of interviewing a minority.

Basically, did they really even bother looking at anyone else to the extent of talking with them with an open possibility of hiring them over Wade?

My thought, is no. That seemed to be apparent when the have Bum/Pastorini before the season is even over at practices hyping up Gary as well as comments about Wade coming over.

Bum has direct ties with the Texans.
Both him and Wade have direct ties with the city.
Both love Gary/Bob.
Bob/Gary love them.

Seemed inevitable

They "called" Marv Lewis. Does that count?

I don't remember Jerrah interviewing any minorities either.

scourge
01-06-2011, 01:39 PM
To add to my previous post, being that Frank Bush is black, I doubt race was a factor. And all I've seen about the Marvin Lewis interview is from McClain. I don't feel that he is the most accurate source there is. If they did, great. That answers that question.



Says the guy in a cybertiff because the Texans lied to him....

The reality that needs to be coped with is the fact that our opinions mean jack squat to this organization. They are going to conduct their business along the model they believes works and if any of us don't like it, we can take our irrational, jingoistic fandom to another team. No one has a larger vested interest in this team than the man who put part of his personal fortune into this boat.

The hilarity in all this is that folks are too busy with their group think therapy session, trying to make ever decision a personal affront, that they have let go of talking football. No matter what McNair did, there were going to be complaints and imagined conspiracies. Instead of "oh they locked on to Wade too soon and didn't do due diligence and anyone who thinks other wise is a pansy," had the Texans gone a different route, taken their time to convince the public they were diligent and lost Wade to another team or even fired Kubiak just to here the latest rumor that Cowher might not want to coach after all it would be "Oh the Texans don't know how to commit to a decision and dare to be great. They waffled and lost out on the top talent and anyone who thinks otherwise is a pansy."

For right or wrong, McNair saw hiring one of the top defensive coordinator candidates as a game of musical chairs: you wait too long and you find yourself without a seat. He was aggressive and made a move hoping to give his new DC - considered one of the best in the business - top choice in finding assistants. In the process, they called up one other dude who declined. That is all we know publicly. That doesn't mean that is all that has happened.

Oh and I don't have to imagine any of this because McNair said so in a prominently placed video on his team's website.

Oh and for those who haven't followed other teams, they all lie to the public, with or without sugar on top.


I just want to win. No, I don't think keeping Gary and bringing in Wade to handle the D(and probably take over for Gary should he be canned), but it's done so I'm not further complaining. My only issues were that his defenses haven't been nearly as epic as they've been made out to be, but as I've said before, a mediocre defense is WAY better than what we've suffered though these last few years. Regarding my feelings towards Uncle Bob's handling isn't directly about lying, but more about how he went about it. And to say we haven't even interviewed him yet is half-truth. A formal interview, sure, but I can't believe for a second that they had already had discussions with him at length about the job even if it was through his dad to keep from keep from being directly tied during the season. No, I don't expect them to come out and say that. They just didn't try and keep anything under wraps prior to having the "formal" interview. This wasn't local speculation. Sports writers around the nation had been saying this was basically a done deal. Like AJ said, the Marvin Lewis comment sounded like a cover.

From Bob's history, I fully believe he places loyalty/personal feelings about people above all else. And I do actually get it, because in the end, people don't like to hire an employee that the manager(coach in this instance) may seriously clash with. I've seen it in my company and others. People being hired that are qualified, but not always the best candidate, because of a good working relationship with management. That doesn't mean it's the best choice, though.

And there were others besides Cowher that I believe would've been > Gary. I don't even think Bob had any real intention of looking to replace Gary, just improve the D.

I don't recall implying or directly saying that those who disagree were pansies. Believe what you want. I know that wasn't directed at me, just saying.



On another side note, we need an Uncle Bob facepalm smiley.

scourge
01-06-2011, 01:44 PM
They "called" Marv Lewis. Does that count?

I don't remember Jerrah interviewing any minorities either.

Didn't say I had no problem with Jerrah's decision, either. And for the record, he did interview others, if only as a formality,
as shown here... (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/02/jason-garrett-gets-cowboys-gig/)
and here. (http://www.nbcdfw.com/blogs/blue-star/Jerry-Jones-Sets-Up-Coaching-Interviews-That-Point-to-Jason-Garrett-112553989.html)

Double Barrel
01-06-2011, 01:52 PM
There was a second interview with the AP that is the one folks are citing when they say he contradicted himself. As you say, he indicated to Bob Allen that the potential lock out did not effect his decision to keep Kubiak. Here's a blurb from the interview the AP did with McNair (including quotes as opposed to assumptions):



LINK (http://www.khou.com/sports/Bob-McNair-says-bad-year-will-make-Kubiak-better-112894469.html)

Hey, facts should not get in the way of a good pom-pom waving session.

The "love it or leave it" mentality cracks me up. I picture those male cheerleaders at some colleges saying stuff like that, but I guess it's that holier-than-thou über-fan crap that I've never seen eye-to-eye with.

I was talking with a friend of mine who is a life-long Steelers fan. He said I don't belong in Houston with my 'east coast fan mentality'. He said that I'm too opinionated and vocal to be a Houston fan. I told him that he needs to visit this board, because the passion is shared by many.

Look, Boob McNair can do whatever he wants with his team. Fans just have to deal with it. But don't put him on a pedestal like he's different than any other given owner. The blinders of eternal gratitude seem to disengage the logical thought process for some folks, but whatever floats your boat. These people certainly don't need my respect to live their lives, and I don't want their's to live mine.

"Respect". Yeah right. Throwing former coaches under the bus to take the fall for your head coach's failures is so classy and respectful. What a load of BS. How about McNair and Co. keep their mouths shut instead of spewing all this spin to cover their asses?

MojoX
01-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Sports writers around the nation had been saying this was basically a done deal.
Just like the Texans drafting Reggie Bush was? Most of these sports writers were presenting their speculation as fact. Hell, if all it takes is an educated guess (which it apparently does in sports journalism) then I "knew" what was going down with Phillips before Jones officially fired him. It didn't take a genius to piece that one together.

I don't recall implying or directly saying that those who disagree were pansies. Believe what you want. I know that wasn't directed at me, just saying.
Of course it wasn't directed at you, so no need to comment as if it was. It is obvious as day which posts keep taking shot at opposing view points, even those view points that only differ in interpretation and not conclusion, as being pom-pom waving, mediocre accepting.... well, you get the point.

The reality is that there facts about this whole situation that suck and facts that don't. Kubiak has been retained for another season despite an average (mediocre) coaching record and no playoff appearances. McNair also just made a defensive guru the highest paid DC in the league (perhaps learning a bit from the Saints about building a strong staff). This same DC is a prime candidate for interim or even full Head Coach in the event Kubiak fails miserably next season. McNair has made clear one for season like this last one will involve bigger changes than those just made. See, we can all pretend it is all one thing or another, but most of time, things aren't that black and white.

scourge
01-06-2011, 02:25 PM
Just like the Texans drafting Reggie Bush was? Most of these sports writers were presenting their speculation as fact. Hell, if all it takes is an educated guess (which it apparently does in sports journalism) then I "knew" what was going down with Phillips before Jones officially fired him. It didn't take a genius to piece that one together.


Of course it wasn't directed at you, so no need to comment as if it was. It is obvious as day which posts keep taking shot at opposing view points, even those view points that only differ in interpretation and not conclusion, as being pom-pom waving, mediocre accepting.... well, you get the point.

The reality is that there facts about this whole situation that suck and facts that don't. Kubiak has been retained for another season despite an average (mediocre) coaching record and no playoff appearances. McNair also just made a defensive guru the highest paid DC in the league (perhaps learning a bit from the Saints about building a strong staff). This same DC is a prime candidate for interim or even full Head Coach in the event Kubiak fails miserably next season. McNair has made clear one for season like this last one will involve bigger changes than those just made. See, we can all pretend it is all one thing or another, but most of time, things aren't that black and white.

***Edit
Of course everyone and their mother had an opinion on the draft. It was draft. This was about a DC in a town that hadn't got much coverage unless our team did something stupid of epic proportions like our record breaking ways to lose games.

Most of the nationwide Reggie speculation regarding the Texans was prior to Vince's epic Championship Game, and before the combine. Afterwards, people started also pointing to Vince, D'Brickashaw(sp?) Ferguson, and even Mario to a much lesser extent. There were still plenty who were saying it would be Bush, don't recall anyone saying that it was a done deal. IIRC, though, there were reports right after the draft that the Texans had talked to Reggie and possibly let him know what they were offering.

I probably should have worded the believe what you want comment differently. Wasn't about how you feel about me, was about what you believe regarding how things have went down. And yes, it's easy to see what comments you were really directing those to. Just commenting that though some of us think of some others as blind kool-aid drinkers, not all of those who disagree, or that we all would complain no matter what they ended up doing. And it's a two-way street. Some of the ones who feel others are simply conspiracy theorists are just as guilty of attacking/insulting that opinion instead of just flatly explaining the other side of the opinion.

MojoX
01-06-2011, 02:27 PM
I was talking with a friend of mine who is a life-long Steelers fan. He said I don't belong in Houston with my 'east coast fan mentality'. He said that I'm too opinionated and vocal to be a Houston fan. I told him that he needs to visit this board, because the passion is shared by many.
Umm. That's not much to brag about. East coasters stereotypically think the world revolves around them and their parochial cultures. Hell, I even know Raider fans would would say the same thing about "belonging."

The "love it or leave it" mentality cracks me up. I picture those male cheerleaders at some colleges saying stuff like that, but I guess it's that holier-than-thou über-fan crap that I've never seen eye-to-eye with.
"Hate it or be looked upon as soft" is no better than "Love it or leave it." There are moderated versions of both poles, ya know. The entire board and fandom benefits when we engage the grey and not just the black and white.

Look, Boob McNair can do whatever he wants with his team. Fans just have to deal with it. But don't put him on a pedestal like he's different than any other given owner. The blinders of eternal gratitude seem to disengage the logical thought process for some folks, but whatever floats your boat. These people certainly don't need my respect to live their lives, and I don't want their's to live mine.

"Respect". Yeah right. Throwing former coaches under the bus to take the fall for your head coach's failures is so classy and respectful. What a load of BS. How about McNair and Co. keep their mouths shut instead of spewing all this spin to cover their asses?
We are all investing time following the personal hobbies of billionaires. There is little here to get worked up about, least of which is the doling of "respect." When I have my fill of the Texans, and I am about 85% there, I will simply find another team with a personnel, scheme, philosophy, approach, or whatever that resonates with me and allows me to watch football without it feeling like the waste of time it really is. In the process, it would be nice to exchange ideas about scheme and personnel with other spectators.

Football is merely a diversion in all of our lives. Well except those of us who actually play it or work the industry for a living.

If anything blinds "logical thought," even Aristotelian thinking, it is this version of fanaticism in which we root for the random, publicly-subsidized athletic organizations of billionaires, often on the happenstance of birth location. Let alone the degree to which folks compare the sizes of their fandom. The degree to which we engage in that irrational jingoism has no bearing on our qualities as people.

Bottom line: I think we can all engage in a football discussion about the Texans that doesn't have to devolve into the constant "soaper" versus "sunshiner" BS that has dominated this board for so long.

GP
01-06-2011, 02:28 PM
This same DC is a prime candidate for interim or even full Head Coach in the event Kubiak fails miserably next season.

I saw what he did in Dallas. I saw the end of it. I saw what that team began to do once he left. They began to play their collective butts off, like they should.

The book is out on all this stuff, and you have no interest in reading the book or discussing it. You'd rather posit that things are groovy and fluid and some are just going overboard with their "group therapy" session.

This thing means a lot to me. I have invested a lot of emotional capital into rooting for this team, coming here and talking about this team, spending time on weekends watching this team (most of which has involved using the fast-forward button on my remote control) and I have spent hundreds of dollars every season on SundayTicket. Why, you might ask? Because "my team" sucks so badly that our local CBS station won't show the games. I called and asked them why they always start off showing the first two games and then the rest of the season is Broncos..."Well, sir, the Texans do not bring in enough viewers here. And national wants us to run a better game so more people will see the commercials." Duh. It figures.

So excuse us for whining a little bit. We forgot to take our special medicine that Rick also feeds McNoob. We get clumsy and forget to take it.

Under ZERO circumstances, not even a full onslaught of zombies attacking the city of Houston and Cleetus Phillips is holed up in the snack room of Reliant, do I want to ever see Wade Phillips as the interim NOR the full HC of this team.

I don't know what fantasy land some of you reside in. My real world, the tangible one that I live in, says that this was all mishandled. Again. But it "felt good," and it "felt right" to Bob. So it must be good. In his own words "It WILL work." OK.

It doesn't get any more black and white than that, Mojo. "It WILL work" - McNair

MojoX
01-06-2011, 02:42 PM
Most of the nationwide Reggie speculation regarding the Texans was prior to Vince's epic Championship Game, and before the combine. Afterwards, people started also pointing to Vince, D'Brickashaw(sp?) Ferguson, and even Mario to a much lesser extent. There were still plenty who were saying it would be Bush, don't recall anyone saying that it was a done deal. IIRC, though, there were reports right after the draft that the Texans had talked to Reggie and possibly let him know what they were offering.
And that is my point. Sports writers say a lot of things. Even without evidence, often times just stealing words (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/espn_anchor_apology) from local press.

As for Bush, PFT kept track of rumors stating that Bush to Houston was a done deal. Not really worth the time to find a concrete source, but a google search will return a PFT article stating that the Mario deal was a "done deal," but that PFT didn't really believe it because they had just a week earlier heard that Bush was a "done deal."

I probably should have worded the believe what you want comment differently. Wasn't about how you feel about me, was about what you believe regarding how things have went down.
I don't believe anything about how things went down. I also don't feel the need to drop into relativism when facts contradict my initial hunches. I just have a list of facts, a list with major holes in it that I feel uncomfortable filling in with my own over-active imagination. When I have gathered enough data to put together an interpretation, I will. Until then, I reserve judgement and just say it is what it is, without putting extra spin on it. (This is a nuance not common in the intertubes.)

But I can tell you what I don't believe, and that consists of most of the speculation (positive or negative) on this board. And it seems too many people fail to see the difference between factual information, interpretation and just making stuff up.

scourge
01-06-2011, 02:54 PM
And that is my point. Sports writers say a lot of things. Even without evidence, often times just stealing words (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/espn_anchor_apology) from local press.

As for Bush, PFT kept track of rumors stating that Bush to Houston was a done deal. Not really worth the time to find a concrete source, but a google search will return a PFT article stating that the Mario deal was a "done deal," but that PFT didn't really believe it because they had just a week earlier heard that Bush was a "done deal."


I don't believe anything about how things went down. I also don't feel the need to drop into relativism when facts contradict my initial hunches. I just have a list of facts, a list with major holes in it that I feel uncomfortable filling in with my own over-active imagination. When I have gathered enough data to put together an interpretation, I will. Until then, I reserve judgement and just say it is what it is, without putting extra spin on it. (This is a nuance not common in the intertubes.)

But I can tell you what I don't believe, and that consists of most of the speculation (positive or negative) on this board. And it seems too many people fail to see the difference between factual information, interpretation and just making stuff up.

The point of forums, blogs, etc.. is to post opinions. It's human nature to give an opinion, facts or no, and defend it to the extent of even attacking those who disagree. See religion, politics, and just about everything else.

If forums simply posted fact and nothing more, they wouldn't have the popularity they do.

GP
01-06-2011, 03:01 PM
And that is my point. Sports writers say a lot of things. Even without evidence, often times just stealing words (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/espn_anchor_apology) from local press.

As for Bush, PFT kept track of rumors stating that Bush to Houston was a done deal. Not really worth the time to find a concrete source, but a google search will return a PFT article stating that the Mario deal was a "done deal," but that PFT didn't really believe it because they had just a week earlier heard that Bush was a "done deal."


I don't believe anything about how things went down. I also don't feel the need to drop into relativism when facts contradict my initial hunches. I just have a list of facts, a list with major holes in it that I feel uncomfortable filling in with my own over-active imagination. When I have gathered enough data to put together an interpretation, I will. Until then, I reserve judgement and just say it is what it is, without putting extra spin on it. (This is a nuance not common in the intertubes.)

But I can tell you what I don't believe, and that consists of most of the speculation (positive or negative) on this board. And it seems too many people fail to see the difference between factual information, interpretation and just making stuff up.

McNair wears a skirt. He likes to wear women's panties on weekends, to loosen up and take a break from life. He likes to water ski in the nude and he employs people to watch him.

THAT is all stuff that is made up.

Do you really, really, really want us to create a 100% "for sure" list of things that McNair is, that this team has been, that can be proven?

Or would you like to pretend that we just don't have enough information to draw a plausible conclusion yet? How many more years until you collect and verify all your data, Mojo? We've had nine years thus far.

Look, I don't care if someone chooses to believe one way or the other. I happen to be of the opinion that the day I awoke from a stupor, in terms of following this team, is the day that David Carr didn't pan out here and left as a CUT player who then went on to play for three more teams where he still hasn't found a niche in this league. From that day onward, I resolved that I would be a bit less "homer'ish" with how I view this team.

I flip-flopped on Kubiak for a long time. I was immediately smitten by the hire, but in about game 4 or 5 of the first non-Carr season, I fell out of love with the guy. I even fell out of love with Schaub. Then, I began to find a soft spot for the big lug a little later on. Then came the MNF game vs. the Titans, and that Kris Brown-led debacle was THE END for me, in regards to Kubiak.

I haven't arrived at my conclusions in haste. It's been a long process. Listening to both sides, analyzing "the data" as you say, and I can't foresee this ending as well as Bob McNair has declared it will.

A little less talk, a little more action. And I sincerely doubt that Wade Phillips has it within himself to get "the action" that we need. Hell, he just landed the biggest gravy gig ever. He's Texans now. Yee-haw, pass the jelly.

MojoX
01-06-2011, 03:06 PM
I saw what he did in Dallas. I saw the end of it. I saw what that team began to do once he left. They began to play their collective butts off, like they should.

The book is out on all this stuff, and you have no interest in reading the book or discussing it. You'd rather posit that things are groovy and fluid and some are just going overboard with their "group therapy" session.
I am sorry. I missed the part where I said things were just groovy.

So are you saying you don't like your viewpoint being painted with a broad brush? But c'mon, all this cyber-complaining has some cathartic value right? Eventually we go back to talking football once we are finish burning ole Enron money, right?

I watched Dallas. Between Sunday Ticket and internet streaming one isn't restricted to following a single team.

This thing means a lot to me. I have invested a lot of emotional capital into rooting for this team, coming here and talking about this team, spending time on weekends watching this team (most of which has involved using the fast-forward button on my remote control) and I have spent hundreds of dollars every season on SundayTicket. Why, you might ask? Because "my team" sucks so badly that our local CBS station won't show the games. I called and asked them why they always start off showing the first two games and then the rest of the season is Broncos..."Well, sir, the Texans do not bring in enough viewers here. And national wants us to run a better game so more people will see the commercials." Duh. It figures.

So excuse us for whining a little bit. We forgot to take our special medicine that Rick also feeds McNoob. We get clumsy and forget to take it.
Priorities. This means little to me. Feel free to invest so much in the Texans. I, personally, invest in football... I find it a less stressful hobby. But to each his/her own right?

Under ZERO circumstances, not even a full onslaught of zombies attacking the city of Houston and Cleetus Phillips is holed up in the snack room of Reliant, do I want to ever see Wade Phillips as the interim NOR the full HC of this team.
Neither do I... neither do I. And the fact that McNair, who many claimed was cheap, made Phillips the highest paid DC over 3 years in the NFL increases the likelihood of that happening.

I don't know what fantasy land some of you reside in.
And you were doing so well... Tsk, tsk. Just had to get in the personal shots... and you don't like it when it happens to you....

My real world, the tangible one that I live in, says that this was all mishandled. Again. But it "felt good," and it "felt right" to Bob. So it must be good. In his own words "It WILL work." OK.

It doesn't get any more black and white than that, Mojo. "It WILL work" - McNair
You are confusing objectivity with relative observation, again. Your opinion is that this was mishandled. My opinion is that I don't know how was handled, see no evidence it was mishandled, and don't think how it was handled would matter to those who are so frustrated with this losing team that they were going to complain any way. I see it as similar to how most sports franchises handle business and not exceptional in any way. (Notice the lack of flower power and grooviness. Notice how you have to project emotional content on those words. It is purposefully written that way.)

As for McNair, again, not as "black and white" as you claim. It takes nerve to use his words that way after this whole thing about taking words out of context (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1629430&postcount=187). I interpret McNair as being optimistic and expressing his confidence in this decision, not making what ever point you think or wish he was making. Here are all of his words:

“I told someone inside, I’ve never been so confident about our coaching staff as I am now,” McNair said. “We have absolutely the best coaching staff we’ve ever had. It would’ve made a difference for us last year. It will make a difference for us this year, and I’m looking forward to it.”...

“I have so much more confidence,” McNair said. “Generally, when you make any kind of change, you sort of hold your breath. You say, ‘Boy, I hope this works out.’ I’m not saying that here. It will work out. He’s done it. He’s been there. He’s come in, he’s looked at our film, we’ve talked about it, and he just cut to the quick so fast. He saw exactly what our problems were, and he had ideas as to how they could be corrected that weren’t necessarily requiring a lot of additional personnel. And I agree with him.

“I just think that we can perform a lot better than we did, and I think with the right coaches in there, you’re going to see some great improvement.”

Maybe it is just my profession, in which major decisions have to be made based on interpretations of data, often on interpretations of other's words, but I read a man convinced he made the right call. Time will tell if he has. (Notice again how I haven't stated if he made a good or bad call. Just that he made his decision and the results will come soon enough.)

MojoX
01-06-2011, 03:09 PM
The point of forums, blogs, etc.. is to post opinions. It's human nature to give an opinion, facts or no, and defend it to the extent of even attacking those who disagree. See religion, politics, and just about everything else.

If forums simply posted fact and nothing more, they wouldn't have the popularity they do.
My observations of religion, politics, and just about everything else lead me to think that people apply this thinking only to those opinions they agree with. Or can we agree to a more civilized and consistent exchange of opinions on this board?

Hell, that is the only thing that got this lurker posting. Just to get some other thoughts out here.

houstonspartan
01-06-2011, 03:10 PM
Umm. That's not much to brag about. East coasters stereotypically think the world revolves around them and their parochial cultures. Hell, I even know Raider fans would would say the same thing about "belonging."


.

You're missing the point. Take, for example, the "fire Kubiak" rally. People were freaking out, calling the organizers "classless" and bashing them. Why? Because it doesn't fit with the "nice, good" way of doing things in Houston.

If Kubiak were a coach on the east coast, he would need bodyguards. And I'm talking THREE YEARS AGO. East Coast fans DON'T eff around. It has nothing to do with the world revolving around them (and, yes, I do think that East Coaster's tend to be a bit self-involved) but more to do with being focused and INTENSE.

I love Houston, but I wish the fans here had a bit more East Coast Stank in them.

GP
01-06-2011, 03:16 PM
My observations of religion, politics, and just about everything else lead me to think that people apply this thinking only to those opinions they agree with. Or can we agree to a more civilized and consistent exchange of opinions on this board?

Hell, that is the only thing that got this lurker posting. Just to get some other thoughts out here.

By your own rationale and criteria, you just stated YOUR OPINION.

See how hollow your stance is? Like seriously.

Scourge, IMO, is nearer the truth than you are. We're all kicking this thing around up in here. Nothing is sacred here. This is a hobby.

GP
01-06-2011, 03:21 PM
And you were doing so well... Tsk, tsk. Just had to get in the personal shots... and you don't like it when it happens to you....

I actually do enjoy the personal shots, as long as they come to my face and are involved in dialogue....rather than a certain someone on here (not you, of course) who puts it out of context and willfully uses it to twist things.

See the difference? Fair enough?

You and I are engaged in dialogue. So we ought to have an understanding that some barbs are going to be thrown back and forth. Unless your halo isn't ragged and rusty like mine is. Is it?

You can talk all you want about what you want.

I find zero comfort in numbers anymore, at least not in the kinds that get used for wrong reasons. Highest paid DC? Pffttt... Had we acquired the highest paid HEAD COACH, then I might be impressed. Sorry if that fails your logic test. Money spent correctly = success. Not just money "spent."

I think, on my end, I've done all I can do here. You can debate this with me one more time and reply to my remarks. I don't dislike you, and I'd like to keep it that way. I will say that it is nice to have had this true back-and-forth with you and still come out of it feeling good about it. So there's a bonus, for me at least.

MojoX
01-06-2011, 03:26 PM
McNair wears a skirt. He likes to wear women's panties on weekends, to loosen up and take a break from life. He likes to water ski in the nude and he employs people to watch him.

THAT is all stuff that is made up.

Do you really, really, really want us to create a 100% "for sure" list of things that McNair is, that this team has been, that can be proven?

Or would you like to pretend that we just don't have enough information to draw a plausible conclusion yet? How many more years until you collect and verify all your data, Mojo? We've had nine years thus far.
How many years until what? Until I protest in the street? Until I stop following the Texans?

I already invest time following about 5 teams. The Texans have dropped to number five on that list. If they start off the next season poorly, they are off. Why? Because I like following sports stories of growth to dominance. I have so many hours each week to follow a sport I like a lot. I divide that time amongst a finite set of teams.

I followed Bellichick when he was with the Browns. I followed him under Parcells. Why? Because I like the 3-4 defense and thought he was a fine coach. And I enjoyed following is narrative... well it was a great ride until I learned what a cheater he was/is.

So why do you follow the Texans? Why wait 9 years on an investment that promises no return?

Again, I need not pretend anything. The question is why do you feel compelled to pretend I am? Is the viewpoint invalid because it contradicts yours?

It is what it is. McNair retained a coach in unprecedented circumstances in the modern NFL era. It, oddly, is both a safe and bold move. He is betting against the odds, going against the grain, thumbing his nose at the world and taking a chance and at the same time unwilling to risk everything by firing the man and starting over. If it works, it is a great sports story. If it doesn't, it is just one more step to old-school Bengal-dom (or Saint-dom). I have little to no control over this narrative. I am just following it until I lose interest.
Look, I don't care if someone chooses to believe one way or the other. I happen to be of the opinion that the day I awoke from a stupor, in terms of following this team, is the day that David Carr didn't pan out here and left as a CUT player who then went on to play for three more teams where he still hasn't found a niche in this league. From that day onward, I resolved that I would be a bit less "homer'ish" with how I view this team.

I flip-flopped on Kubiak for a long time. I was immediately smitten by the hire, but in about game 4 or 5 of the first non-Carr season, I fell out of love with the guy. I even fell out of love with Schaub. Then, I began to find a soft spot for the big lug a little later on. Then came the MNF game vs. the Titans, and that Kris Brown-led debacle was THE END for me, in regards to Kubiak.

I haven't arrived at my conclusions in haste. It's been a long process. Listening to both sides, analyzing "the data" as you say, and I can't foresee this ending as well as Bob McNair has declared it will.

A little less talk, a little more action. And I sincerely doubt that Wade Phillips has it within himself to get "the action" that we need. Hell, he just landed the biggest gravy gig ever. He's Texans now. Yee-haw, pass the jelly.
I still like Kubiak and root for him. I do not think he should be the Texans coach anymore, but I do personally wish the the man and the coach well.

I never claimed you reached your conclusions in haste. I have said that you are not valuing others viewpoints as well as you value your own. Folks disagree. That is life.

The facts as I see them begin and end with the reality of this hobby and how we all relate to this organization, as both fans/followers and tax payers. I try to not inhale the marketing fumes the league wishes I would. I favor players and coaches over teams and the game itself over all else related to it.

Bottom line: this is McNair's narrative and he is crafting it as he sees fit. I find it an interesting story for now.

MojoX
01-06-2011, 03:26 PM
You're missing the point. Take, for example, the "fire Kubiak" rally. People were freaking out, calling the organizers "classless" and bashing them. Why? Because it doesn't fit with the "nice, good" way of doing things in Houston.

If Kubiak were a coach on the east coast, he would need bodyguards. And I'm talking THREE YEARS AGO. East Coast fans DON'T eff around. It has nothing to do with the world revolving around them (and, yes, I do think that East Coaster's tend to be a bit self-involved) but more to do with being focused and INTENSE.

I love Houston, but I wish the fans here had a bit more East Coast Stank in them.
You speak more truth than you realize.

michaelm
01-06-2011, 03:27 PM
I think it's clear that the Texans have a team policy against publicly acknowledging personnel transactions before they are 100% official. Their past history with free agents supports that, IMO.

I honestly don't think it has as much to do with keeping information from the fans as it does keeping information from their competitors.

I know that it makes sense from a free agency standpoint to keep certain information "classified" to ensure that another team doesn't make a last minute attempt to steal a player out from under you before all contracts are completed.

I don't see why it would be any different with coaches.
In a competitive business, it just doesn't make sense to lay your cards on the table before you know that everything is finalized.

I think fans are being too self-centric in this belief that the team is lying to them. I think some fans are taking it a little too personally.

There are sound reasons why a team should keep secrets from the public.

So the Texans suck at how they go about it... I just am a having a hard time getting on board with the whole evil empire mentality.

It's very clear to me that there is a lot of bitterness and animosity towards the team right now, but I think some people are allowing it to color their opinion of everything the team does, whether or not it's warranted in every situation.
I also think there are some people who are intentionally using the current atmosphere of unrest as an opportunity to rally others into their mob mentality, and it seems to me that they are having some success with that...

MojoX
01-06-2011, 03:30 PM
By your own rationale and criteria, you just stated YOUR OPINION.

See how hollow your stance is? Like seriously.

Scourge, IMO, is nearer the truth than you are. We're all kicking this thing around up in here. Nothing is sacred here. This is a hobby.

By that criteria, every stance is hollow. To the deep abyss of nihilism, all of us!

Let us continue to kick then...

As you can tell, this poster finds your assessment of truth is less than impressive...

Should I have put an internet approved "IMO" in there somewhere?

MojoX
01-06-2011, 03:31 PM
I think it's clear that the Texans have a team policy against publicly acknowledging personnel transactions before they are 100% official. Their past history with free agents supports that, IMO.

I honestly don't think it has as much to do with keeping information from the fans as it does keeping information from their competitors.

I know that it makes sense from a free agency standpoint to keep certain information "classified" to ensure that another team doesn't make a last minute attempt to steal a player out from under you before all contracts are completed.

I don't see why it would be any different with coaches.
In a competitive business, it just doesn't make sense to lay your cards on the table before you know that everything is finalized.

I think fans are being too self-centric in this belief that the team is lying to them. I think some fans are taking it a little too personally.

There are sound reasons why a team should keep secrets from the public.

So the Texans suck at how they go about it... I just am a having a hard time getting on board with the whole evil empire mentality.

It's very clear to me that there is a lot of bitterness and animosity towards the team right now, but I think some people are allowing it to color their opinion of everything the team does, whether or not it's warranted in every situation.
I also think there are some people who are intentionally using the current atmosphere of unrest as an opportunity to rally others into their mob mentality, and it seems to me that they are having some success with that...

I concur.

MojoX
01-06-2011, 03:37 PM
I actually do enjoy the personal shots, as long as they come to my face and are involved in dialogue....rather than a certain someone on here (not you, of course) who puts it out of context and willfully uses it to twist things.

See the difference? Fair enough?

You and I are engaged in dialogue. So we ought to have an understanding that some barbs are going to be thrown back and forth. Unless your halo isn't ragged and rusty like mine is. Is it?
I don't have a halo. They are mythical.

You can talk all you want about what you want.

I find zero comfort in numbers anymore, at least not in the kinds that get used for wrong reasons. Highest paid DC? Pffttt... Had we acquired the highest paid HEAD COACH, then I might be impressed. Sorry if that fails your logic test. Money spent correctly = success. Not just money "spent."
I mention the money because of the once pervasive opinion that McNair is cheap and wouldn't open his checkbook to produce a winner.

I think, on my end, I've done all I can do here. You can debate this with me one more time and reply to my remarks. I don't dislike you, and I'd like to keep it that way. I will say that it is nice to have had this true back-and-forth with you and still come out of it feeling good about it. So there's a bonus, for me at least.
We don't even know each other. Should that ever change, I am sure it would be a fine experience.

Hey, the whole point is to have an exchange that stays above the level of name-calling and involves some level of argument formulation. I think that benefits the entire culture of a forum.

I look forward to future exchanges involving real football. Till then....

Doppelganger
01-06-2011, 05:32 PM
I think you also see the disingenuous nature of it all.

Yep. We had three candidates, everything was done above level.

Carry on.

Sorry, I don't know how to portray sarcasm across the internet too well. Its a new year's resolution I am working on!

GP
01-06-2011, 06:45 PM
By that criteria, every stance is hollow. To the deep abyss of nihilism, all of us!

Let us continue to kick then...

As you can tell, this poster finds your assessment of truth is less than impressive...

Should I have put an internet approved "IMO" in there somewhere?

Ok, I get it. One can't get along with you unless you allow it.

Tried to extend a hand and all, but you're not interested.

LOL. Wowzers.

By the way, regardless of whether you think halos and angels and stuff are real or not...it was a figure of speech. I guess it zoomed right over your "highly evolved and advanced" mind perhaps?

And as far as the money situation goes, it took nine years of utter incompetence before he opened his checkbook up for someone with the experience of Wade Phillips--And you still fail to understand that people here, the vast majority or damn well near it, would have been happier had he spent money on a better head coach. I guess we're the first team to have a head coach on offense and a head coach on defense. Too hard for McNair to figure out how to find a head coach, an o-coord and a d-coord who can all produce their own product on the field. You are OK with us having waited NINE years to pull in someone who actually has some history of production? Seriously? Nine years is a great waiting period? This "proves" McNair isn't cheap? N-i-n-e Years? OK.

The ending to your post, IMO, is creepy in of itself. You really must not have social skills. I was trying to tell you that I enjoyed the back-and-forth...but you sensed weakness and went for my jugular with your "Join the Borg. You will be assimilated" talk? Man, you're out there.

GP
01-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Sorry, I don't know how to portray sarcasm across the internet too well. Its a new year's resolution I am working on!

Huh? I was agreeing with you, dopp.

I think you misunderstood me.

MojoX
01-06-2011, 08:30 PM
Ok, I get it. One can't get along with you unless you allow it.

Tried to extend a hand and all, but you're not interested.

LOL. Wowzers.

By the way, regardless of whether you think halos and angels and stuff are real or not...it was a figure of speech. I guess it zoomed right over your "highly evolved and advanced" mind perhaps?

And as far as the money situation goes, it took nine years of utter incompetence before he opened his checkbook up for someone with the experience of Wade Phillips--And you still fail to understand that people here, the vast majority or damn well near it, would have been happier had he spent money on a better head coach. I guess we're the first team to have a head coach on offense and a head coach on defense. Too hard for McNair to figure out how to find a head coach, an o-coord and a d-coord who can all produce their own product on the field. You are OK with us having waited NINE years to pull in someone who actually has some history of production? Seriously? Nine years is a great waiting period? This "proves" McNair isn't cheap? N-i-n-e Years? OK.

The ending to your post, IMO, is creepy in of itself. You really must not have social skills. I was trying to tell you that I enjoyed the back-and-forth...but you sensed weakness and went for my jugular with your "Join the Borg. You will be assimilated" talk? Man, you're out there.
My apologies. Due to your acumen at argumentation, I have been convinced to pick a herd and internet rampage instead, complete with simple sentence structure to be less Borgy.

bckey
01-07-2011, 08:44 AM
There was a second interview with the AP that is the one folks are citing when they say he contradicted himself. As you say, he indicated to Bob Allen that the potential lock out did not effect his decision to keep Kubiak. Here's a blurb from the interview the AP did with McNair (including quotes as opposed to assumptions):



LINK (http://www.khou.com/sports/Bob-McNair-says-bad-year-will-make-Kubiak-better-112894469.html)

Thanks for the link.

"I was in the locker room, I was on the practice field, I saw how we played," McNair said. "He had everything under control the whole time."

Yeah except for gametime.

Fans for weeks had urged McNair to fire Kubiak, whose contract runs through the 2012 season. McNair said fans "are no more frustrated than me," but also pointed to the job Kubiak did last season when Houston finished 9-7 for its first winning record.

"I don’t think anybody was calling for his head after that season," McNair said.


Uhmm yes they were and McNair knows it. We remember the Texans choking the season away starting with the Titans on monday night after a 2 week bye. McNair signed Kubiak to an extension and killed the fire Kubiak bunch hopes and look what it got us. 6-10. Hey but Bob still made a tidy profit.

McNair said a major overhaul of the staff would’ve been too risky, especially with the possibility of a lockout looming in the spring. McNair wanted to preserve some stability, in case preparations for next season are delayed by labor negotiations.

"Continuity makes it easier to be ready, as opposed to if you completely changed your systems, and the players weren’t around to be taught the new system," McNair said. "And then you come back to play and you’re trying to start out with a new system, and the players aren’t properly prepared. That could be a very difficult situation, and we certainly don’t want to find ourselves in that boat."


Bob lied. Enough said. I actually think the upcoming strike year is the best time to make a complete change. Everything is in question already so changing things during the chaos will make a lot less ripples. Waiting until the following year will cause a riot. I guess that means McNair already has an excuse for keeping kubiak after next season.

McNair said he’s happy with the progress of the offense under Kubiak, who was Denver’s offensive coordinator from 1995-2005. This year, the Texans finished third in total yards (386.6 per game) and produced the NFL’s leading rusher in Arian Foster.

"It’s clear that our offense is one of the top offenses," McNair said. "Clearly, our problem was with our defense and we had to ask ourselves what it would take to improve that."


I wonder if Bob has ever talked to Kubiak about how he manages a game or if he is just dazzled by stats. I saw a flat, unprepared football team 14 outta 16games last season. Only the opener and the finale did the play football for more than 2 quarters.

cuppacoffee
01-07-2011, 11:32 AM
^^^My new Personal Hero!!!^^^:bravo:

They got who THEY wanted, hopefully Wade gets who HE needs and the defense does what IT's suppose to...Stomp mud holes into QBs and walk them dry....



Exactly.

If McNair hadn't signed Phillips, and Phillips had signed elsewhere, then these same posters would be complaining that McNair lost out on the best choice because he was too cheap.

McNair is not going to change the way he does things, Texan fans might as well get used to it.

:coffee:

DerekLee1
01-07-2011, 12:09 PM
I guess we're the first team to have a head coach on offense and a head coach on defense.

Green Bay has that. Chicago has that. KC has three head coaches.