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View Full Version : Why is everyone making excuses for K.J.


EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:46 AM
It is not bad coaching that gets him burnt every game, it was not frank bushs fault he was always 10-15 steps behing the man he was covering. You can teach technique but you cant teach speed. Our best CB this season was easily Jason Allen, he will be resigned this off seasons IMO. Jackson is a bust IMO, and yes i can say that after 1 season, it would been fine if he woulda shown some improvement but he didn't, he was as bad his last game as he was his first.

So why does everyone keep defending him. Some of u wanting him to continue to start sound a lot like the way bob mcnair thinks. Lets dont be hypocrites.

Thorn
01-06-2011, 08:49 AM
The defense will get rebooted during this offseason. Why don't we just wait and see what ole Uncle Wade has in store for us? KJ might not be a factor next year, but none of us knows that as yet.

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 08:52 AM
It is not bad coaching that gets him burnt every game, it was not frank bushs fault he was always 10-15 steps behing the man he was covering. You can teach technique but you cant teach speed. Our best CB this season was easily Jason Allen, he will be resigned this off seasons IMO. Jackson is a bust IMO, and yes i can say that after 1 season, it would been fine if he woulda shown some improvement but he didn't, he was as bad his last game as he was his first.

So why does everyone keep defending him. Some of u wanting him to continue to start sound a lot like the way bob mcnair thinks. Lets dont be hypocrites.

I haven't heard anyone defend him on this board. All I hear is "..and Kareem Jackson falls down".

I wasn't critical of the selection initially, but my concern was that their argument was "he's the most NFL-ready". But that also could mean, "that's as good as he'll ever get", that he's reached his potential. That seems to be the case, but a good CB also makes a huge leap between years 1 and 2. And it's not often a rookie CB is asked to defend the opposing team's #1 receiver every week for a full season. We should've kept Reeves and brought KJ along slowly by playing him in nickel packages.

HOU-TEX
01-06-2011, 08:58 AM
Leave KJ Alone!!!

http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/16/original/leave-britney-alone-02.jpg?1229112660

Seriously? We needed a new thread for this?

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:01 AM
I haven't heard anyone defend him on this board. All I hear is "..and Kareem Jackson falls down".

I wasn't critical of the selection initially, but my concern was that their argument was "he's the most NFL-ready". But that also could mean, "that's as good as he'll ever get", that he's reached his potential. That seems to be the case, but a good CB also makes a huge leap between years 1 and 2. And it's not often a rookie CB is asked to defend the opposing team's #1 receiver every week for a full season. We should've kept Reeves and brought KJ along slowly by playing him in nickel packages.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79168

DerekLee1
01-06-2011, 09:03 AM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79168

I only see a couple of people in there "defending" him. Most everyone else is either ribbing the OP or flat out disagreeing.

GP
01-06-2011, 09:11 AM
Plug him in as a nickel back and watch him shine.

He can't cover man-to-man, but let him (on nickel situations) drift over and support the CBs or let him be responsible for covering the man out of the backfield and I think he'll do well.

However, this regime feels that he's a Round 1 draft pick and therefore he MUST be a true starting CB. This regime will pound on that square peg until it somehow goes through the round hole.

There's a sense of this Owner/GM/HC just "not getting it" and then also being too loyal, to a fault, because they want to feel good about themselves and make sure every person has a chance and no kid is left behind.

It's the Head Start team of the NFL.

speedfreek
01-06-2011, 09:13 AM
worst wasted pick since Amoeba Okoye

current staff can't eval defensive talent at all

TJ

BigBull17
01-06-2011, 09:16 AM
It is not bad coaching that gets him burnt every game, it was not frank bushs fault he was always 10-15 steps behing the man he was covering. You can teach technique but you cant teach speed. Our best CB this season was easily Jason Allen, he will be resigned this off seasons IMO. Jackson is a bust IMO, and yes i can say that after 1 season, it would been fine if he woulda shown some improvement but he didn't, he was as bad his last game as he was his first.

So why does everyone keep defending him. Some of u wanting him to continue to start sound a lot like the way bob mcnair thinks. Lets dont be hypocrites.

Cause you don't blame the player for being a reach, you blame the brain trust that picked him early. KJ is what he is.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 09:16 AM
It is not bad coaching that gets him burnt every game, it was not frank bushs fault he was always 10-15 steps behing the man he was covering. You can teach technique but you cant teach speed. Our best CB this season was easily Jason Allen, he will be resigned this off seasons IMO. Jackson is a bust IMO, and yes i can say that after 1 season, it would been fine if he woulda shown some improvement but he didn't, he was as bad his last game as he was his first.

So why does everyone keep defending him. Some of u wanting him to continue to start sound a lot like the way bob mcnair thinks. Lets dont be hypocrites.

Ill defend him. The kid is a rookie. Not only is he a rookie but he doesnt have the luxury of a great defense (McCourty) or of being the nickel CB (Wilson) or have any vets teaching him the tricks of the trade (cromartie/revis). Im assuming these are the two that he is continually compared two because they were drafted so close together.

Not to mention, our defense can't apply pressure to save our lives. With that being said, he was constantly on an island without any help from our front seven putting pressure on the QB so they could basically pick apart our secondary.

Also, besides QB, I think CB is the hardest position to start at as a rookie. Im not saying he was great or even good, I'm saying he is VERY young. As for coaching and getting burnt like you said earlier? If he is not being coached correctly on how to move his hips, anticipate, etc, then he will lose steps every time and "appear" to be burnt.

Im not sure that what Im saying is the 100% case, but it could easily be so seeing as how bad our defense was this year. I think with proper coaching and a veteran presence, this kid could be very good.

You cant label the kid a bust until year 3 at best. The NFL and college are two completely different levels.

I think saying the kid sucks and needs to be cut is ridiculous. Give him the proper tools and then make a decision.

disaacks3
01-06-2011, 09:18 AM
It is not bad coaching that gets him burnt every game, it was not frank bushs fault he was always 10-15 steps behing the man he was covering. You can teach technique but you cant teach speed. Our best CB this season was easily Jason Allen, he will be resigned this off seasons IMO. Jackson is a bust IMO, and yes i can say that after 1 season, it would been fine if he woulda shown some improvement but he didn't, he was as bad his last game as he was his first.

So why does everyone keep defending him. Some of u wanting him to continue to start sound a lot like the way bob mcnair thinks. Lets dont be hypocrites. Coaching WASN'T an issue....really? I guess Glover Quin regressed because of what exactly? How about the effectiveness of Pollard? Kareem always got that safety help that was supposed to be there in Wilson I suppose?

You've got to be kidding if you think Kareem Jackson is as bad as he was made to look at times this season. Especially, if you think it was his fault alone.

:kubepalm:

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 09:20 AM
Coaching WASN'T an issue....really? I guess Glover Quin regressed because of what exactly? How about the effectiveness of Pollard? Kareem always got that safety help that was supposed to be there in Wilson I suppose?

You've got to be kidding if you think Kareem Jackson is as bad as he was made to look at times this season. Especially, if you think it was his fault alone.

:kubepalm:

This.

dream_team
01-06-2011, 09:25 AM
Actually, I think Glover was our best corner this season. Jason did play well considering we just picked him off the waiver wire midseason.

Kareem does look like he doesn't have the speed to recover, but I'm hoping better coaching will help.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:25 AM
Ill defend him. The kid is a rookie. Not only is he a rookie but he doesnt have the luxury of a great defense (McCourty) or of being the nickel CB (Wilson) or have any vets teaching him the tricks of the trade (cromartie/revis). Im assuming these are the two that he is continually compared two because they were drafted so close together.

Not to mention, our defense can't apply pressure to save our lives. With that being said, he was constantly on an island without any help from our front seven putting pressure on the QB so they could basically pick apart our secondary.

Also, besides QB, I think CB is the hardest position to start at as a rookie. Im not saying he was great or even good, I'm saying he is VERY young. As for coaching and getting burnt like you said earlier? If he is not being coached correctly on how to move his hips, anticipate, etc, then he will lose steps every time and "appear" to be burnt.

Im not sure that what Im saying is the 100% case, but it could easily be so seeing as how bad our defense was this year. I think with proper coaching and a veteran presence, this kid could be very good.

You cant label the kid a bust until year 3 at best. The NFL and college are two completely different levels.

I think saying the kid sucks and needs to be cut is ridiculous. Give him the proper tools and then make a decision.

he's been playing this game his whole life so come on its not gibbs/bushs fault. u can label someone a bust after 1 season. I saw many of these same people call M.W a bust after season 1.

HuttoKarl
01-06-2011, 09:27 AM
Coaching WASN'T an issue....really? I guess Glover Quin regressed because of what exactly? How about the effectiveness of Pollard? Kareem always got that safety help that was supposed to be there in Wilson I suppose?

You've got to be kidding if you think Kareem Jackson is as bad as he was made to look at times this season. Especially, if you think it was his fault alone.

:kubepalm:

Fred Bennett would be another example...played pretty well until the Texans coaching staff sunk their hooks into him.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:28 AM
Coaching WASN'T an issue....really? I guess Glover Quin regressed because of what exactly? How about the effectiveness of Pollard? Kareem always got that safety help that was supposed to be there in Wilson I suppose?

You've got to be kidding if you think Kareem Jackson is as bad as he was made to look at times this season. Especially, if you think it was his fault alone.

:kubepalm:

i'm not saying the play calling wasnt terrible. But if ur playing man regardless of the play u should be able to play man, same with zone. it is simple u can either run with a WR r u cant, u can either turn and run with the WR r u cant. U have it r u dont.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 09:29 AM
he's been playing this game his whole life so come on its not gibbs/bushs fault. u can label someone a bust after 1 season. I saw many of these same people call M.W a bust after season 1.

My point exactly!! MW has recorded more sacks in his five years than any other DE!

And give me a break, if you havent heard the speed difference from the NFL to college then you havent been paying attention to football too long. If you think it is the EXACT same game then explain why so many college coaches have failed in the NFL.

Some players cant get the grasp of the NFL, not saying KJ will or has gotten it, but he played on the worst defense ever, got coached by a bum, and was a rookie.

Give me a break bro.

:wadepalm:

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 09:30 AM
i'm not saying the play calling wasnt terrible. But if ur playing man regardless of the play u should be able to play man, same with zone. it is simple u can either run with a WR r u cant, u can either turn and run with the WR r u cant. U have it r u dont.

Im not going to pound my point in any more than I have. This is ridiculous. Do some research before you make asinine comments like these.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:32 AM
My point exactly!! MW has recorded more sacks in his five years than any other DE!

And give me a break, if you havent heard the speed difference from the NFL to college then you havent been paying attention to football too long. If you think it is the EXACT same game then explain why so many college coaches have failed in the NFL.

Some players cant get the grasp of the NFL, not saying KJ will or has gotten it, but he played on the worst defense ever, got coached by a bum, and was a rookie.

Give me a break bro.

:wadepalm:

but M.W never looked slow, our out of his league. If u can teach speed i am gonna go take a speed class and try out for the texans next season. He gets left in the dust and get even further behind the longer he chases. I'm saying M.W had a descent Rookie year and many called him a bust now K.J has the worst year and people refuse to call him a bust. sounds to me like people were still made we didnt get young our bush.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:35 AM
Im not going to pound my point in any more than I have. This is ridiculous. Do some research before you make asinine comments like these.

u want me to research what exactly. i didnt show any stats, no theories, i pointed out the obvious from the season, he couldnt play man, or zone, and was always getting burnt. there is plenty of facts to support that he was easily the worst CB in the NFL if thats what u want.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 09:36 AM
but M.W never looked slow, our out of his league. If u can teach speed i am gonna go take a speed class and try out for the texans next season. He gets left in the dust and get even further behind the longer he chases. I'm saying M.W had a descent Rookie year and many called him a bust now K.J has the worst year and people refuse to call him a bust. sounds to me like people were still made we didnt get young our bush.

I guess we should look to trade for Heyward-Bay and convert him to a CB huh? I mean, according to you, speed is the only thing you need to be a great CB. Sounds great.

:kubepalm:

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:37 AM
I guess we should look to trade for Heyward-Bay and convert him to a CB huh? I mean, according to you, speed is the only thing you need to be a great CB. Sounds great.

:kubepalm:

well lack of speed = why he is always giving up big TDs and u see him disappearing from the camera as the WR is making his way into the endzone.

Texas T
01-06-2011, 09:40 AM
Coaching WASN'T an issue....really? I guess Glover Quin regressed because of what exactly? How about the effectiveness of Pollard? Kareem always got that safety help that was supposed to be there in Wilson I suppose?

You've got to be kidding if you think Kareem Jackson is as bad as he was made to look at times this season. Especially, if you think it was his fault alone.

:kubepalm:

100% with this.

KJ was not the greatest, of this we will all agree, but he didn't get the support that he was expecting. Very little pass rush and I can't think of the last time I saw him get Safety help over the top.
I think just about every CB in the NFL would look bad the way our D was playing (probably with the exception of Revis & Asu) and the kid was a Rookie.
I'm all for giving him a chance for another season with better coaching and I'm betting he'll be a different CB next year.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:42 AM
100% with this.

KJ was not the greatest, of this we will all agree, but he didn't get the support that he was expecting. Very little pass rush and I can't think of the last time I saw him get Safety help over the top.
I think just about every CB in the NFL would look bad the way our D was playing (probably with the exception of Revis & Asu) and the kid was a Rookie.
I'm all for giving him a chance for another season with better coaching and I'm betting he'll be a different CB next year.

Allen didnt look as bad as him, and he had help over the top in our final game when nolan got the int.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 09:43 AM
100% with this.

KJ was not the greatest, of this we will all agree, but he didn't get the support that he was expecting. Very little pass rush and I can't think of the last time I saw him get Safety help over the top.
I think just about every CB in the NFL would look bad the way our D was playing (probably with the exception of Revis & Asu) and the kid was a Rookie.
I'm all for giving him a chance for another season with better coaching and I'm betting he'll be a different CB next year.

As you can see Ellis, Im not the only one that thinks this way. Open up your mind to this opinion being possible and it will help you accept what we are saying.

Once again, Im not saying this the 100% case, but it is more than likely what is going on. Once we get a proven DC teaching him, I think you will see a world of difference.

GP
01-06-2011, 09:44 AM
I fear that some of you might be traumatizing Kareem Jackson with your criticism of his play this past year.

Why don't we all just be sensible people, have a cup of green tea, and trust that everything is going to be fine?

Do we understand one another? I hope we do. If you have any further comments, I'd like you to direct those to our Quality Control department. Please include your full address so that one of our staffers can visit you and discuss this in, shall we say, "greater detail"?

disaacks3
01-06-2011, 09:45 AM
i'm not saying the play calling wasnt terrible. But if ur playing man regardless of the play u should be able to play man, same with zone. it is simple u can either run with a WR r u cant, u can either turn and run with the WR r u cant. U have it r u dont.

You're assuming that everytime he was "out of position", that it was his skill (or lack thereof), rather than an element of the designed coverage.

When forced to play man coverage, KJ usually gave quite a bit of cushion (that's a coaching call) and many passes were completed underneath. When playing zone, KJ's job is to cover an 'area', not a player. At some point in the zone, there are 'handoff areas' where the coverage is either given to a linebacker over the middle or a deep safety.

For example: When the safety bites on a play-action, all the sudden KJ finds himself in UN-intentional man coverage and playing catch-up on a guy who was leaving his zone.

Sure, there were times when he stumbled in man coverage and when he was caught up in a double-move...it happens. But, don't confuse his lack of coverage downfield in a deep zone as him not doing his job.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:46 AM
As you can see Ellis, Im not the only one that thinks this way. Open up your mind to this opinion being possible and it will help you accept what we are saying.

Once again, Im not saying this the 100% case, but it is more than likely what is going on. Once we get a proven DC teaching him, I think you will see a world of difference.

u want me to research what exactly. i didnt show any stats, no theories, i pointed out the obvious from the season, he couldnt play man, or zone, and was always getting burnt. there is plenty of facts to support that he was easily the worst CB in the NFL if thats what u want.

i posted this on page 1 to u 2slik4u. figured u didnt see it so here u go, i want to know what i need to research

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 09:48 AM
You're assuming that everytime he was "out of position", that it was his skill (or lack thereof), rather than an element of the designed coverage.

When forced to play man coverage, KJ usually gave quite a bit of cushion (that's a coaching call) and many passes were completed underneath. When playing zone, KJ's job is to cover an 'area', not a player. At some point in the zone, there are 'handoff areas' where the coverage is either given to a linebacker over the middle or a deep safety.

For example: When the safety bites on a play-action, all the sudden KJ finds himself in UN-intentional man coverage and playing catch-up on a guy who was leaving his zone.

Sure, there were times when he stumbled in man coverage and when he was caught up in a double-move...it happens. But, don't confuse his lack of coverage downfield in a deep zone as him not doing his job.

allen gets right up on the WR, and bumps thm at the line, so how come he can do it but quinn and jackson cant ?????? is that a coaching call ?

Texas T
01-06-2011, 09:48 AM
Allen didnt look as bad as him, and he had help over the top in our final game when nolan got the int.

Allen is not a rookie-main difference.

If I recall (and my recall is not as good as it once was) wasn't Nolan underneath on that play and the ball thrown short??

If not that would be the one time I can think of that he got support as he should have.

Just keep in mind that he is a ROOKIE and regarless of how "NFL ready" he was supposed to be, the way our D played this year he would never look good.

And to hold off the McCourtney talk-he was playing in a much better D than KJ and I'm betting that we'd be having this same conversation if he was our pick in the first.

GP
01-06-2011, 09:58 AM
What if, and just playing devil's advocate here, Kareem blew the coverage and Nolan just read the play and reacted quickly enough?

Was KJ even on that side of the field? Didn't record the game, so I can't recall it or watch it again.

Nolan has shown flashes of being a better safety than Wilson.

Just throwing it out there as a hypothetical. Maybe Nolan knew KJ needed that extra help and was already on his way to save the day?

disaacks3
01-06-2011, 10:00 AM
allen gets right up on the WR, and bumps thm at the line, so how come he can do it but quinn and jackson cant ?????? is that a coaching call ? Yes, it is.

Think of it THIS way....do you think O-Lineman get to decide who they're blocking and where they're supposed to move them on a given play? CB is no different - It's likely the coaches had him giving the cushion either to A) Help protect him against a fly pattern, or....B) To help disguise what the coverage actually was.

TEXANRED
01-06-2011, 10:21 AM
Why does everyone feel the need to start negative threads?

Nothing against you but more of a genral board thing.

76Texan
01-06-2011, 10:26 AM
Yes, it is.

Think of it THIS way....do you think O-Lineman get to decide who they're blocking and where they're supposed to move them on a given play? CB is no different - It's likely the coaches had him giving the cushion either to A) Help protect him against a fly pattern, or....B) To help disguise what the coverage actually was.

This ^^^

A CB plays whatever technique that play call required of him.
For example, when you play cover one (a single deep sefety) against a 2-receiver set; most likely, the coaches would have the CBs playing ouside technique to try to funnel the receivers to the inside where they have safety help.
There are different ways to play it, but this is one scheme that the Texans utilized often.
At other times, they might use a rotational scheme where they send the safety down to cut off one receiver that runs a slant while one CB rolling up top to become the safety.

midway
01-06-2011, 10:44 AM
I can't take anyone seriously who writes like a 12 year old girl.

HOU-TEX
01-06-2011, 10:52 AM
allen gets right up on the WR, and bumps thm at the line, so how come he can do it but quinn and jackson cant ?????? is that a coaching call ?

Dunno what your signature is, but if it's an advertisement you might want to get rid of it. Just sayin

b0ng
01-06-2011, 11:01 AM
worst wasted pick since Amoeba Okoye

current staff can't eval defensive talent at all

TJ

This is something I have a problem with right here. Jackson, Wilson, and McCourty were all rated as late 1st round early 2nd round picks. Now initially I did not want Jackson, I wanted McCourty (Since he returned punts too for Rutgers) but I had no problem with the Jackson pick. Maybe when I have some more free time I can go back through the draft threads from last year, but I'm really sure that those guys were rated as being close together talent-wise.

I'm really tired of hearing Captain Hindsight's talking about how they knew Jackson would be terrible before he even played a down in the NFL. The Kareem Jackson pick was not the huge ****ing blunder in the secondary. It was telling Robinson, Reeves and Bennett that they could all go bye bye in the same offseason.

But yes, as of right now there aren't too many excuses that you can make for KJ, as he has been outmatched badly by almost every WR he's faced. One can only hope that he hasn't turned into a broken player in just one bad season, but right now he's looking mighty bust-ish.

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Leave KJ Alone!!!


Seriously? We needed a new thread for this?


Someone help him up off the ground. :lol:



The OP had to get advertisement time for his sig ..... :smiliepalm: that doesnt fit the regulations

TexanBacker93
01-06-2011, 11:37 AM
I'm not entirely sure the problems of this defense can be pinned on one thing. I think the coaches and the players share the blame. Injuries didn't help this team any. Losing Barwin and Ryans in the first half of the season hurt.

I don't know if would say Jason Allen was the best CB on the team. Yeah he made a couple of big INTs, but it's not like we were a dominant defense once he came on board. Wasn't he responsible for allowing the Jets to throw deep and get out of bounds at the end of the game? A vet should know to keep the receiver in the middle of the field and make the clock work.

GP
01-06-2011, 11:40 AM
I'm not entirely sure the problems of this defense can be pinned on one thing. I think the coaches and the players share the blame. Injuries didn't help this team any. Losing Barwin and Ryans in the first half of the season hurt.

I don't know if would say Jason Allen was the best CB on the team. Yeah he made a couple of big INTs, but it's not like we were a dominant defense once he came on board. Wasn't he responsible for allowing the Jets to throw deep and get out of bounds at the end of the game? A vet should know to keep the receiver in the middle of the field and make the clock work.

In addition, you have to figure that opponents were probably gameplanning to get their best WR matched up with the rookie (KJ). Which means the overall talent of the WR2 on each team is being matched up with a more veteran, savvy CB like Jason Allen.

There could be some disparity there. I just think KJ makes a great nickel guy, but this team won't say that their Round 1 cornerback has busted down to nickel level. It's not in their DNA. Their DNA is to keep doing the same thing until it works, and we know where it goes from there....

OrdinaryAvgGuy
01-06-2011, 11:40 AM
I can't take anyone seriously who writes like a 12 year old girl.

wha did you say da 4. sittin over their & juging my writing.
4get al of this stuff. KJ iz a wookie.


Oh wait. Chewbacca is a wookie. Kareem Jackson was a rookie. And I am literate.

Seriously, though. You are correct. Some of these posts are hardly in the English language, and it is sad.

GP
01-06-2011, 11:51 AM
wha did you say da 4. sittin over their & juging my writing.
4get al of this stuff. KJ iz a wookie.


Oh wait. Chewbacca is a wookie. Kareem Jackson was a rookie. And I am literate.

Seriously, though. You are correct. Some of these posts are hardly in the English language, and it is sad.

And the advent of TEXTING has made it worse.

My dyslexic friend, when he texts me, uses "r" for "are," and "u" for "You," and a whole host of other shorthand combinations. He's a trip, though, and a friend for life.

I don't mind translating his texting, since he's a friend. It does get hard to do that on here, though, but those are generally posts that I just skip altogether if it's too hard to translate.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 12:21 PM
u want me to research what exactly. i didnt show any stats, no theories, i pointed out the obvious from the season, he couldnt play man, or zone, and was always getting burnt. there is plenty of facts to support that he was easily the worst CB in the NFL if thats what u want.

i posted this on page 1 to u 2slik4u. figured u didnt see it so here u go, i want to know what i need to research

Alright Ellis. Seeing as how you do not know HOW to research comparative stats, I did the work for you.

Do not take this as the "be all, end all" stats but I pretty much tried to find the most successful CB's in the league and am going to show their rookie year stats in passes defended, picks, and tackles. This is also a grouping of defensive backs althought I tried to stay with CB's as much as possible.

2010
2 picks, 12 passes defended, 58 tackles - Kareem Jackson

2008
(2009 seemed to soon to deem a long term successful DB so I went straight to 2008)
2 picks, 15 passes defended, 62 tackles - Brandon Flowers
4 picks, 13 passes defended, 17 tackles - Aqib Talib
2 picks, 7 passes defended, 26 tackles - Leodis Mckelvin
1 pick, 5 passes defended, 19 tackles - Mike Jenkins

2007
3 picks, 20 passes defended, 74 tackles - Darelle Revis
3 picks, 10 passes defended, 41 tackles - Michael Griffin

2006
1 pick, 5 passes defended, 66 tackles - Antoine Bethea
3 picks, 14 passes defended, 69 tackles - Richard Marshall
2 picks, 10 passes defended, 36 tackles - Cedric Griffin

2005
2 picks, 4 passes defended, 42 tackles - Carlos Rodgers
2 picks, 16 passes defended, 64 tackles - Dominique Foxworth

2004
6 picks, 19 passes defended, 73 tackles - Dunta Robinson
6 picks, 14 passes defended, 68 tackles - Chris Gamble
5 picks, 9 passes defended, 28 tackles - Nathan Vasher

2003
2 picks, 7 passes defended, 30 tackles - Asante Samuel

0 picks, 0 passes defended, 20 tackles - Nnamdi Asumogha
second year - 0 picks, 3 passes defended, 37 tackles
third year - 0 picks, 14 passes defended
fourth year - 8 picks, 11 passes defended, and is now the considered the best CB in the game.

As you can see, KJ's stats are clearly on par with most of the current successful starting DB's in the game today.

Look at Nnamdi first three years!!! Good thing they didnt label him a bust and cut him huh?

I hope this opens your eyes a little bit when comparing KJ's stats with other rookie CB's stats. I would love to know how many of those CB's listed above was labeled the #1 CB the moment they stepped on the field too.

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 01:09 PM
u want me to research what exactly. i didnt show any stats, no theories, i pointed out the obvious from the season, he couldnt play man, or zone, and was always getting burnt. there is plenty of facts to support that he was easily the worst CB in the NFL if thats what u want.

i posted this on page 1 to u 2slik4u. figured u didnt see it so here u go, i want to know what i need to research

Dont open your trap if you cant back it up with more than opinion. Give facts and links to back up that opinion.

Playoffs
01-06-2011, 01:13 PM
It's not KJ's fault Rick Smith chose the wrong guy .... again.

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 01:35 PM
Alright Ellis. Seeing as how you do not know HOW to research comparative stats, I did the work for you.

Do not take this as the "be all, end all" stats but I pretty much tried to find the most successful CB's in the league and am going to show their rookie year stats in passes defended, picks, and tackles. This is also a grouping of defensive backs althought I tried to stay with CB's as much as possible.

As you can see, KJ's stats are clearly on par with most of the current successful starting DB's in the game today.

Look at Nnamdi first three years!!! Good thing they didnt label him a bust and cut him huh?

I hope this opens your eyes a little bit when comparing KJ's stats with other rookie CB's stats. I would love to know how many of those CB's listed above was labeled the #1 CB the moment they stepped on the field too.

Rep for digging deeper into it than most including myself have.


I'm curious as to how these stats compare to the reality / context.

How much playing time did these players recieve in comparison - were they starters getting the majority of snaps , nickle or dime package guy's ?


Much like the Texans offensive stats that lead to McNair's retaining Kubiak - Its easy to take statistics out of context.

76Texan
01-06-2011, 01:43 PM
Some numbers to consider when looking at why the Pats allowed a bunch of yards but not many scores:

Their safeties totalled 23 Pass Breakups and 11 Ints.
Ours: 13 and 3.

That's a huge difference!

Rey
01-06-2011, 01:48 PM
As you can see, KJ's stats are clearly on par with most of the current successful starting DB's in the game today.

Look at Nnamdi first three years!!! Good thing they didnt label him a bust and cut him huh?


Only question I have is how many times did Nnamdi get flat out roasted or embarrassed??

I know that it hasn't always been on KJ, but there is more to the story than stats...especially for a corner....

KJax has looked really bad at times this year...We've all seen it...We are all witnesses....

I can't really blame someone that wonders if he will get it together...

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 01:52 PM
Only question I have is how many times did Nnamdi get flat out roasted or embarrassed??

I know that it hasn't always been on KJ, but there is more to the story than stats...especially for a corner....

KJax has looked really bad at times this year...We've all seen it...We are all witnesses....

I can't really blame someone that wonders if he will get it together...

I really wonder if his inability to stay on his feet has anything to do with the "shuffle technique" that the previous defensive staff had them employ.

When you have been doing things one way with success (got him to the NFL combine) and are then asked to change and suddenly nothing seems to work .... :kitten:

Rey
01-06-2011, 01:55 PM
I really wonder if his inability to stay on his feet has anything to do with the "shuffle technique" that the previous defensive staff had them employ.

When you have been doing things one way with success (got him to the NFL combine) and are then asked to change and suddenly nothing seems to work .... :kitten:

I have no doubt in my mind that a lot of these players are better than this coaching staff has made them look. No doubt at all.

I am just worried about Wade bringing in his D-backs coach from Dallas because those guys over there haven't exactly been developing too well either..

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Alright Ellis. Seeing as how you do not know HOW to research comparative stats, I did the work for you.

Do not take this as the "be all, end all" stats but I pretty much tried to find the most successful CB's in the league and am going to show their rookie year stats in passes defended, picks, and tackles. This is also a grouping of defensive backs althought I tried to stay with CB's as much as possible.

2010
2 picks, 12 passes defended, 58 tackles - Kareem Jackson

2008
(2009 seemed to soon to deem a long term successful DB so I went straight to 2008)
2 picks, 15 passes defended, 62 tackles - Brandon Flowers
4 picks, 13 passes defended, 17 tackles - Aqib Talib
2 picks, 7 passes defended, 26 tackles - Leodis Mckelvin
1 pick, 5 passes defended, 19 tackles - Mike Jenkins

2007
3 picks, 20 passes defended, 74 tackles - Darelle Revis
3 picks, 10 passes defended, 41 tackles - Michael Griffin

2006
1 pick, 5 passes defended, 66 tackles - Antoine Bethea
3 picks, 14 passes defended, 69 tackles - Richard Marshall
2 picks, 10 passes defended, 36 tackles - Cedric Griffin

2005
2 picks, 4 passes defended, 42 tackles - Carlos Rodgers
2 picks, 16 passes defended, 64 tackles - Dominique Foxworth

2004
6 picks, 19 passes defended, 73 tackles - Dunta Robinson
6 picks, 14 passes defended, 68 tackles - Chris Gamble
5 picks, 9 passes defended, 28 tackles - Nathan Vasher

2003
2 picks, 7 passes defended, 30 tackles - Asante Samuel

0 picks, 0 passes defended, 20 tackles - Nnamdi Asumogha
second year - 0 picks, 3 passes defended, 37 tackles
third year - 0 picks, 14 passes defended
fourth year - 8 picks, 11 passes defended, and is now the considered the best CB in the game.

As you can see, KJ's stats are clearly on par with most of the current successful starting DB's in the game today.

Look at Nnamdi first three years!!! Good thing they didnt label him a bust and cut him huh?

I hope this opens your eyes a little bit when comparing KJ's stats with other rookie CB's stats. I would love to know how many of those CB's listed above was labeled the #1 CB the moment they stepped on the field too.

thats all fine and dandy, you can pick off 2 passes, and defend 12 passes, yeah for him, but where is your stat for TDs allowed. You can have a qb throw a 100 TDs but if he throws 120 INTs i dont think it will help his cause much. We all know that stats mean nothing.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 02:09 PM
"It was tough," Jackson said after the Texans allowed Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers to complete 17 of 23 passes for 295 yards and four touchdowns with an interception. "In my opinion, I think it was the big plays that determine the game, in which I gave up three alone two for a touchdown. Anytime that happens, you don't give your team a chance to win. That's on me.

thats a quote from jackson, but hey he did pick off 2 passes so all the TDs he gave up are forgiven i suppose.

76Texan
01-06-2011, 02:14 PM
"It was tough," Jackson said after the Texans allowed Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers to complete 17 of 23 passes for 295 yards and four touchdowns with an interception. "In my opinion, I think it was the big plays that determine the game, in which I gave up three alone two for a touchdown. Anytime that happens, you don't give your team a chance to win. That's on me.

thats a quote from jackson, but hey he did pick off 2 passes so all the TDs he gave up are forgiven i suppose.

That's from a player who doesn't want to throw anybody on the bus, including his coaches.

I don't have time to go back and find the analyses on these plays.
You can search for my posts.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 02:15 PM
"It was tough," Jackson said after the Texans allowed Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers to complete 17 of 23 passes for 295 yards and four touchdowns with an interception. "In my opinion, I think it was the big plays that determine the game, in which I gave up three alone two for a touchdown. Anytime that happens, you don't give your team a chance to win. That's on me.

thats a quote from jackson, but hey he did pick off 2 passes so all the TDs he gave up are forgiven i suppose.

You're right. Let's cut his ass.
:pissed:

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 02:17 PM
That's from a player who doesn't want to throw anybody on the bus, including his coaches.

I don't have time to go back and find the analyses on these plays.
You can search for my posts.

my point is in one game he gave up 2 TDs, that wasnt even one of his worst games. i'm trying to find a stat on how many TDs he allowed but i cant find it.

My opinion is Kareem Jackson is not a starting CB, he is slow, unable to stick with his man, and gives up to many big plays. you can say its because he is a rookie, but if we go with him again next season we will be in the same boat we are in now. sitting at home come play-off time.

76Texan
01-06-2011, 02:19 PM
I really wonder if his inability to stay on his feet has anything to do with the "shuffle technique" that the previous defensive staff had them employ.

When you have been doing things one way with success (got him to the NFL combine) and are then asked to change and suddenly nothing seems to work .... :kitten:

I just look around and found that in the SEC most of the stadium have natural grass.

Only Vaught–Hemingway Stadium (Ole Miss) has synthetic grass and Williams-Brice Stadium (Gamecocks) has astroturf.

(I hope I didn't miss any of them).
I intend to go back (probably much later, but hopefully before the draft) and look at those plays where he slipped and compare them with what could happen as compared with other players. (As well as if it's technique-related).
I will also go back and look at his college tapes and try to find my notes when I analyzed his games.

76Texan
01-06-2011, 02:21 PM
my point is in one game he gave up 2 TDs, that wasnt even one of his worst games. i'm trying to find a stat on how many TDs he allowed but i cant find it.

My opinion is Kareem Jackson is not a starting CB, he is slow, unable to stick with his man, and gives up to many big plays. you can say its because he is a rookie, but if we go with him again next season we will be in the same boat we are in now. sitting at home come play-off time.

My point is that some of the TDs you think he gave up was due to zone coverage and not his giving up too many big plays.

Did he give up some? Sure!
So did Quin, Allen, McCain as well as most CBs on the various teams that we faced!

BTW, which game do you think was his worst?

HOU-TEX
01-06-2011, 02:24 PM
My point is that some of the TDs you think he gave up was due to zone coverage and not his giving up too many big plays.

Did he give up some? Sure!
So did Quin, Allen, McCain as well as most CBs on the various teams that we faced!

BTW, which game do you think was his worst?

Not a fan of anyone in our secondary, but I agree. Plus, our safety's failed to give help over the top when they were supposed to as well. Our safety's have been historically bad, but this season was absolutely pathetic.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 02:26 PM
My point is that some of the TDs you think he gave up was due to zone coverage and not his giving up too many big plays.

Did he give up some? Sure!
So did Quin, Allen, McCain as well as most CBs on the various teams that we faced!

BTW, which game do you think was his worst?

i'd say our second game against the colts, he didnt give up as many TDs but he gave up MANY big plays. Ok if K.J and G.Q arent the reason our secondary was so bad than i'm mistaken. But i'm pretty sure they are the reason.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 02:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFV01kPwnY4 heres our best cb, haha we are terrible in the secondary. #25 most of all

HOU-TEX
01-06-2011, 02:32 PM
The CB's weren't great, but the Safety's are more to blame. Sorry

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 03:21 PM
The CB's weren't great, but the Safety's are more to blame. Sorry

How many years have we been stating this .... by now its got to be painfully obvious to the front office.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 03:26 PM
Rep for digging deeper into it than most including myself have.


I'm curious as to how these stats compare to the reality / context.

How much playing time did these players recieve in comparison - were they starters getting the majority of snaps , nickle or dime package guy's ?


Much like the Texans offensive stats that lead to McNair's retaining Kubiak - Its easy to take statistics out of context.

Corrosion, thanks for the rep. I completely agree with you when you say that the stats do not tell the whole story. I know that different factors need to be brought to be completely 100% relative but these werent for you as you seem a little reasonable.

These stats were for Ellis. Because in his eyes, bad rookie year = horrible bust. Because it was so apparently black and white to him, I thought some simple stats like these would help him in his decision.

Obviously he didnt get the memo.......

76Texan
01-06-2011, 03:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFV01kPwnY4 heres our best cb, haha we are terrible in the secondary. #25 most of all

I have already analyzed these plays and my take was quite different from the blogger, who is a member of this board (dalemurphy).

You can try to search for my post.

I will summarize them:
Play 1 (2:45 in the first)
If you have the actual game tape, replay it in slow motion and see.
Yes, it was man coverage, but on this side, there was a possiible tango between Pollard and KJ. Look carefully and you will see that Pollard (who was in front of both receivers) looked to have the idea to switch but didn't. It makes sense to me when they had Pollard playing on-man on the slot receiver and KJ playing off-man on the wide-out.
When KJ came back up to try to make the tackle, he expected to have Pollard on the outside for containment.
Unfortunately, Pollard was held.

Play 3 (13:02 in the 2nd)
Texans were in tampa 2 (4 underneath zones, MIKE dropping back with the safeties to form a 3-deep zone).
KJ stayed in his zone to cover the back out of the backfield #44 Bradshaw.
Pollard left his deep zone and was torched for the TD.

Play 4 (1:58 in the second)
It was a 3-way between KJ, Quin, and Nolan on two receivers (from a 2-deep, 5-underneath zone).
Originally, Quin did well to funnel the slot to the outside.
But he failed to keep the receiver outside; his man made the break back toward the post.
This left Nolan in no-man land; still, he should have stayed back and not trying to get up too soon toward the slot receiver before the ball break.
The problem here was with both Quin and Nolan's play, not KJ.
(Also, Eli had too much time; 3 secs and no pressure).

Play 5 (10:02 in the fourth)
It was man coverage with single safety help.
An illegal maneuver by Steve Smith when you replay it in slow motion.
He put a hand on KJ's helmet to shove him away to get seperation.
That was clearly offensive pass inteference as I ever saw one.

76Texan
01-06-2011, 03:29 PM
i'd say our second game against the colts, he didnt give up as many TDs but he gave up MANY big plays. Ok if K.J and G.Q arent the reason our secondary was so bad than i'm mistaken. But i'm pretty sure they are the reason.

I don't have time for this right now.
Will get back to it later!

b0ng
01-06-2011, 03:44 PM
My opinion is Kareem Jackson is not a starting CB, he is slow, unable to stick with his man, and gives up to many big plays. you can say its because he is a rookie, but if we go with him again next season we will be in the same boat we are in now. sitting at home come play-off time.

And my opinion is that if the pass rush was better than the hot fart it pretty much represented throughout the season you do better. If we can actually generate QB hits on a consistent basis and force some turnovers next year we will be in the playoffs.

:P

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 04:14 PM
And my opinion is that if the pass rush was better than the hot fart it pretty much represented throughout the season you do better. If we can actually generate QB hits on a consistent basis and force some turnovers next year we will be in the playoffs.

:P

i have seen us get eaten up by short/quick passes, where the d-line had no time to get to the QB, our secondary still put up no resistance.

disaacks3
01-06-2011, 04:33 PM
i have seen us get eaten up by short/quick passes, where the d-line had no time to get to the QB, our secondary still put up no resistance. Once again, it's hard to stop a quick slant under the best of circumstances, much less when your D-Coordinator has you playing with an 8-yd cushion (rather than jamming at the line).

76Texan
01-06-2011, 04:34 PM
i have seen us get eaten up by short/quick passes, where the d-line had no time to get to the QB, our secondary still put up no resistance.

You are switching from KJ to the whole secondary now!

silvrhand
01-06-2011, 07:00 PM
You are switching from KJ to the whole secondary now!

76Texan, this guy is a troll man just let it go.. no point in trying to educate he's just trolling..

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:02 PM
76Texan, this guy is a troll man just let it go.. no point in trying to educate he's just trolling..

just trolling really, i came from houstontexans.com me stating an opinion is trolling. wow

Mixgosu
01-06-2011, 07:27 PM
did you really need to start another thread on KJ?

drs23
01-06-2011, 07:27 PM
100% with this.

KJ was not the greatest, of this we will all agree, but he didn't get the support that he was expecting. Very little pass rush and I can't think of the last time I saw him get Safety help over the top.
I think just about every CB in the NFL would look bad the way our D was playing (probably with the exception of Revis & Asu) and the kid was a Rookie.
I'm all for giving him a chance for another season with better coaching and I'm betting he'll be a different CB next year.

Thank you.

MacMoose
01-06-2011, 07:31 PM
u want me to research what exactly. i didnt show any stats, no theories, i pointed out the obvious from the season, he couldnt play man, or zone, and was always getting burnt. there is plenty of facts to support that he was easily the worst CB in the NFL if thats what u want.

I would like to see these stats that prove Kareem is the worst CB in the NFL. Show me. :homer:

JB
01-06-2011, 07:33 PM
I would like to see these stats that prove Kareem is the worst CB in the NFL. Show me. :homer:

Actually, I believe one source (F.O. maybe?) had DeAngelo Hall with that honor...

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:33 PM
I would like to see these stats that prove Kareem is the worst CB in the NFL. Show me. :homer:

u show me some stats that he wasnt. i have already seen the stat where he gave up more yards, its in my thread our the other one.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Actually, I believe one source (F.O. maybe?) had DeAngelo Hall with that honor...

yeah and Jackson was 2nd,,,thats the link i have been looking for

MacMoose
01-06-2011, 07:37 PM
yeah and Jackson was 2nd,,,thats the link i have been looking for

Show me. I have known Kareem for a long time, show me.:foottap:

drs23
01-06-2011, 07:40 PM
I can't take anyone seriously who writes like a 12 year old girl.



+41 million to the 10th power!

rep

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 07:41 PM
just trolling really, i came from houstontexans.com me stating an opinion is trolling. wow

Many of us here have been around since the days when this "was" the official board - The forum conversation at HT.com pretty much sucks .... I kinda liken it to Clutchfans .... dont visit either as its like a bunch of kids and hacks bickering back and forth half of which cant spell or write a complete sentence.

Anyhow welcome to TT ....

Just a few words of advice -

When you present an opinion , dont state is as fact or you'll find it rough going.

When you state a fact , back it up with something - stats and links.

If you post quotes , add a link to them.

You probably could have just added this conversation to one of the existing threads on the person in question ....

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:42 PM
Show me. I have known Kareem for a long time, show me.:foottap:

what does u knowing him have to do with anything ???? i know a baseball player that dont mean he dont suck

spurstexanstros
01-06-2011, 07:44 PM
he's been playing this game his whole life so come on its not gibbs/bushs fault. u can label someone a bust after 1 season. I saw many of these same people call M.W a bust after season 1.

I defend KJ because..He is a rookie....and I believe he had just about as many ints in his rookie year as our "pay me rick" corner that left us. I saw him get better and learn from his mistakes. All rookies get picked on and due to the lack of pressure by other busts ( ahem amobi) and our #1 pick and 1 free agent offside engineer (offsideo smith), other teams had plenty of time to pick on him.

Did he get burned yes, was it more than other rookie corners,hard to say. I think this year under fire for our "kiddie corners" is going to benefit them in the long run.

KJ is a work in progress and worth the value of his pick because we needed a corner and not another d-lineman.

Texecutioner
01-06-2011, 07:46 PM
So why does everyone keep defending him. Some of u wanting him to continue to start sound a lot like the way bob mcnair thinks. Lets dont be hypocrites.

Now this is the part that gets me. Some people might have defended the rookie some including myself, but to say that anyone wanted him to continue to start is just false. I don't think anyone ever has wanted that. If you want to bash Jackson for having a poor rookie season than fine, but remember to add that it's a rookie season at one of the hardest positions to transition to in the NFL and that's why top CB's get paid what they do now days. Also remember the clowns that never would get any real veteran CB's or safeties all of these years in free agency though. Asking a rookie to be the main corner on a struggling defense was asking for disaster.

FirstTexansFan
01-06-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm going to chalk it up to a rookie year, with piss poor coaching. If he doesn't improve next year, then I'll jump on the "he sucks" bandwagon.

MacMoose
01-06-2011, 07:50 PM
what does u knowing him have to do with anything ???? i know a baseball player that dont mean he dont suck

You still haven't shown a stat and because I do know him, I would like to see it. And telling me to find a stat that shows he isn't the worst CB is not my problem. As the OP, it's on you. :winky:

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 07:53 PM
OK SINCE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE GETTING UPSET ABOUT THIS THREAD, this is my final post in this thread. I just dont want the staff to think he will be improved by next season and leave us in the same position we are in this year, worst pass defense, no play-offs. THATS ALL :goodluck:

FirstTexansFan
01-06-2011, 07:55 PM
OK SINCE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE GETTING UPSET ABOUT THIS THREAD, this is my final post in this thread. I just dont want the staff to think he will be improved by next season and leave us in the same position we are in this year, worst pass defense, no play-offs. THATS ALL :goodluck:

Nobody's upset bro... just a differing opinion... the type written words have no voice inflection :)

JB
01-06-2011, 07:58 PM
I defend KJ because..He is a rookie....and I believe he had just about as many ints in his rookie year as our "pay me rick" corner that left us. I saw him get better and learn from his mistakes. All rookies get picked on and due to the lack of pressure by other busts ( ahem amobi) and our #1 pick and 1 free agent offside engineer (offsideo smith), other teams had plenty of time to pick on him.

Did he get burned yes, was it more than other rookie corners,hard to say. I think this year under fire for our "kiddie corners" is going to benefit them in the long run.

KJ is a work in progress and worth the value of his pick because we needed a corner and not another d-lineman.



Actually, Dunta had 6 Int's his first year. But, he had a pro bowl corner on the other side. And a pro bowl corner making the transition to FS. And a front 7 that provided a decent amount of pressure. I think that KJ was a bit overwhelmed this year, but he will be a good corner with time under his belt, some safety help, and a decent defensive game plan to provide a bit of help.

spurstexanstros
01-06-2011, 07:59 PM
OK SINCE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE GETTING UPSET ABOUT THIS THREAD, this is my final post in this thread. I just dont want the staff to think he will be improved by next season and leave us in the same position we are in this year, worst pass defense, no play-offs. THATS ALL :goodluck:

whos upset? the threads title asks a question and people respomded, no one is pissed. You want to see pissed try doing a search threads for these topics Kubiak, Richard Smith, Conner Barwin and David Carr. This thread is mild in comparison.

FirstTexansFan
01-06-2011, 08:01 PM
whos upset? the threads title asks a question and people respomded, no one is pissed. You want to see pissed try doing a search threads for these topics Kubiak, Richard Smith, Conner Barwin and David Carr. This thread is mild in comparison.

Very true, better yet, do a search for Vince Young, 2006 :)

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 08:01 PM
Actually, Dunta had 6 Int's his first year. But, he had a pro bowl corner on the other side. And a pro bowl corner making the transition to FS. And a front 7 that provided a decent amount of pressure. I think that KJ was a bit overwhelmed this year, but he will be a good corner with time under his belt, some safety help, and a decent defensive game plan to provide a bit of help.

Soft spots between the zones ? The same things beat them from week one to week 17 .... Smith never could figure it out.

whos upset? the threads title asks a question and people respomded, no one is pissed. You want to see pissed try doing a search threads for these topics Kubiak, Richard Smith, Conner Barwin and HHWNBM. This thread is mild in comparison.

Fixed that for you.

We dont mention Mr. Mittens round these parts.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:01 PM
whos upset? the threads title asks a question and people respomded, no one is pissed. You want to see pissed try doing a search threads for these topics Kubiak, Richard Smith, Conner Barwin and David Carr. This thread is mild in comparison.

yeah i just don't enjoy being called a troll when i have been a fan as long as anybody on this board. i remember u from HT.com. Just think its funny how people putting others down seems to make them feel better about their selves and their opinion.

silvrhand
01-06-2011, 08:02 PM
yeah i just don't enjoy being called a troll when i have been a fan as long as anybody on this board. i remember u from HT.com. Just think its funny how people putting others down seems to make them feel better about their selves and their opinion.

troll...

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:10 PM
troll...

:doot:

JB
01-06-2011, 08:18 PM
troll...

:doot:

:popcorn:

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:21 PM
:headhurts:

Texan_Bill
01-06-2011, 08:22 PM
"Rookie on Rookie" violence (and I'm talking about new posters to the board)...

:francis:

Love it!! :evil:

b0ng
01-06-2011, 08:23 PM
yeah i just don't enjoy being called a troll when i have been a fan as long as anybody on this board. i remember u from HT.com. Just think its funny how people putting others down seems to make them feel better about their selves and their opinion.

When you come on and start a thread to just badmouth a player, and you don't have any context to back it up other than "This is just what I think u prove me wrong lol" people get all fiery. People are putting you down because you refuse to show any effort to extrapolate as to the reasons behind your opinions.

I don't think Jackson should be completely excluded from at least having a shot at being one of the starting CB's, but between him and Glover, if one of them has to remain a starter it's going to be Glover. I also think that better coaching will do both of them wonders so who knows.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:26 PM
When you come on and start a thread to just badmouth a player, and you don't have any context to back it up other than "This is just what I think u prove me wrong lol" people get all fiery. People are putting you down because you refuse to show any effort to extrapolate as to the reasons behind your opinions.

I don't think Jackson should be completely excluded from at least having a shot at being one of the starting CB's, but between him and Glover, if one of them has to remain a starter it's going to be Glover. I also think that better coaching will do both of them wonders so who knows.

i figured our worst passing defense this season and 6-10 record was enough evidence, of how bad THEY were. guess i was wrong. heck lets not worry about the defense at all now that we have Phillips i'm sure Jackson will magically be able to hang with WRs in man to man and wont fall down anymore. :bubbles:

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 08:27 PM
"Rookie on Rookie" violence (and I'm talking about new posters to the board)...

:francis:

Love it!! :evil:

Too bad they have manboobs ...... :mariopalm:

silvrhand
01-06-2011, 08:29 PM
i figured our worst passing defense this season and 6-10 record was enough evidence, of how bad THEY were. guess i was wrong. heck lets not worry about the defense at all now that we have Phillips i'm sure Jackson will magically be able to hang with WRs in man to man and wont fall down anymore. :bubbles:

Now you are saying THEY.. of course I can get behind THEY.... But throwing KJ under the bus, and your video really wasn't great evidence as 76Texan already showed you.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:29 PM
Too bad they have manboobs ...... :mariopalm:

:mail:...................... that was retarded

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 08:31 PM
:mail:...................... that was retarded

No , it wasnt , you have to know TB's post history to understand it. (o)(o)'s Tomorrow.


No ****in melonheads please.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Now you are saying THEY.. of course I can get behind THEY.... But throwing KJ under the bus, and your video really wasn't great evidence as 76Texan already showed you.

well Jackson help make up "THEY" but i think he was worse of all. if he's ur cousin or brother tell me i mean no disrespect to your family.

JB
01-06-2011, 08:32 PM
i figured our worst passing defense this season and 6-10 record was enough evidence, of how bad THEY were. guess i was wrong. heck lets not worry about the defense at all now that we have Phillips i'm sure Jackson will magically be able to hang with WRs in man to man and wont fall down anymore. :bubbles:



So, are you backing off of your statement that there is plenty of facts to support that he was easily the worst CB in the NFL if thats what u want. ?

Are you now trying to change it to the stipulation that we had the worst pass defense in the history of the NFL, and he was part of that? No one is arguing that point.

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but when you state them as facts, you need to be prepared to back them up with facts, and don't get offended when you get called out for erronious data.

EllisUnit
01-06-2011, 08:34 PM
So, are you backing off of your statement that ?

Are you now trying to change it to the stipulation that we had the worst pass defense in the history of the NFL, and he was part of that?

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but when you state them as facts, you need to be prepared to back them up with facts, and don't get offended when you get called out for erronious data.

THEY Quinn and JAckson are terrible.....i would say safties but bush had the safties in the box so much i more consider them as LBs now.

JB
01-06-2011, 08:35 PM
:mariopalm:


Dude! Decide what your story is, and stick with it for at least a hour or so...

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 08:36 PM
:mariopalm:


Dude! Decide what your story is, and stick with it for at least a hour or so...



Got Melonhead ? :barman:

DocBar
01-06-2011, 08:40 PM
After reading thru roughly half the post in this thread, I only saw one post about KJ slipping. I saw that throughout the season from a lot of our DB's. I coan safely say that 3/4's+ of our D plays had either a DB slip or simply not get his head turned around. The latter has been a problem for years on this team. DB's can't simply run down the field waving their arms about. They can't make a play when they're slipping all over the field. A coach needs to recognize these things and correct them.

b0ng
01-06-2011, 08:42 PM
i figured our worst passing defense this season and 6-10 record was enough evidence, of how bad THEY were. guess i was wrong. heck lets not worry about the defense at all now that we have Phillips i'm sure Jackson will magically be able to hang with WRs in man to man and wont fall down anymore. :bubbles:

So why start a new thread if everything is so obvious? Didn't think we knew we had one of the worst passing defenses in history? If this was breaking news I'd understand the lack of content.

2slik4u
01-06-2011, 08:47 PM
Ellis, this is by no means a jab at your posting abilities or your debating skills.

When you go thru the 120 posts on YOUR thread and you are the ONLY person with your point of view and still refuse to back it up with any data or stats, how do you expect the rest of us are going to act?

Do you think we may have a point at what we are getting at or do you think that this is some huge conspiracy against you and your company peddling signature?

It has nothing to do with you (at least in the beginning), just at least act receptive and try to have an actual conversation about football and maybe, just maybe, you will learn a thing or two.

I dont claim to know everything, I leave that up to JB, Showtime, Wolf, and the rest of the old men to spread reasonable thoughts.

Just try and be humble here instead of busting through the door like the kool-aid man spewing your non-fact supported fiction around.

It doesnt go over very well.

400th post!

Corrosion
01-06-2011, 09:08 PM
400th post!

Only 39,000 to go to catch up to TB.


:shots:

sakebomb
01-07-2011, 12:55 PM
I don't know WTF is going on? What happened??? It's the end of the world I tell you. I will say I don't know what all is going on is this thread since I don't have time to read them all but.........

KJ does suck.

Mr teX
01-07-2011, 01:17 PM
This guy's whole thread is a fail..

A new depth of fail has been reached with this dude's posts. Absolutely ridiculous.

:wadepalm::kubepalm::vincepalm:

Corrosion
01-07-2011, 01:22 PM
This guy's whole thread is a fail..

A new depth of fail has been reached with this dude's posts. Absolutely ridiculous.

:wadepalm::kubepalm::vincepalm:

I dunno if he's eclipsed "Johnson Fan" ..... but he got close.

EllisUnit
09-25-2011, 05:53 PM
reading some of these responses are pricless. shortly afterwards i had my Texans talk is awesome thread :(

thunderkyss
09-25-2011, 05:55 PM
reading some of these responses are pricless. shortly afterwards i had my Texans talk is awesome thread :(

Couldn't help yourself, could you?

EllisUnit
09-25-2011, 05:57 PM
Couldn't help yourself, could you?

ewww i thought about it for a while before i did :splits:

fiasco west
09-27-2011, 11:36 PM
That is the thing that worries me about Kareem...wasn't he supposed to be a press Corner?

How does it turn out that that seems to be the worst part of his game? All he did was give up short routes, I mean it's good he's not getting beat as often as last year but to see him playing so far off when playing short routes is supposed to be his thing?

I still have faith in the guy though, last game though was tough.

TexanSam
09-28-2011, 12:00 AM
http://www.sandiegopersonalinjurylawyersblog.com/Trip%20%26%20Fall%20Yellow%20Sign.jpg

Corrosion
09-28-2011, 12:05 AM
Shoulda just posted this in one of the dozen other "Jackson Sucks" threads.


KJ didnt fall down against the Aints .... But Glover Quinn did. :vincepalm:

bo orlando
09-28-2011, 12:20 AM
I wasn't trying to say "Jackson Sucks"; in fact, I normally defend him using the whole "development" argument. I just found it funny, that's all. Clearly, Jackson is not transitioning like we all want him to, but it seems like most of his collegiate "strengths" are his nfl "weaknesses".

two of his strengths that do remain are that he genuinely seems to be a competitor and does seem to take well to coaching, which is probably one of the big reasons why he's still in the starting lineup. however, this unfortunately takes away yet another excuse for his poor play (you can't chalk it up to poor attitude) and is yet another indictment on smith and the rest of the scouting department for missing out on his lack of skills. the amount of first-round corners available when the texans picked makes this even more maddening.

Brisco_County
09-28-2011, 12:35 AM
He may simply lack the physical attributes, like speed. If that's the case, then his ceiling has been reached.

welsh texan
09-28-2011, 04:50 AM
What I don't understand for the life of me, is that other than the odd passing comment, Rick Smith hardly seems to get any heat for this at all.

This is a man who's first round picks have included Okoye and Jackson :vincepalm: 2 more who've had suspensions for PED's :vincepalm: and JJ Watt who wasn't even his pick!

So in 4 first round picks, 2 are busts and 2 have been busted.

And the guy still has his job!? And you never see and 'Fire Smith' pink soap around here since the last problem Smith was sent packing.

Lucky
09-28-2011, 05:55 AM
Im sure the steelers will throw quick slants to Kareem's side of the field to protect Ben. Why wouldn't they?
If Kareem is on the sideline, I wouldn't mind Big Ben throwing at him. Make this happen, Wade Phillips. Don't be a Richard Smith or Frank Bush and accept incompetence.

Kimmy
09-28-2011, 07:40 AM
If Kareem is on the sideline, I wouldn't mind Big Ben throwing at him. Make this happen, Wade Phillips. Don't be a Richard Smith or Frank Bush and accept incompetence.

LOL Excellent point!!

BigBull17
09-28-2011, 09:04 AM
What I don't understand for the life of me, is that other than the odd passing comment, Rick Smith hardly seems to get any heat for this at all.

This is a man who's first round picks have included Okoye and Jackson :vincepalm: 2 more who've had suspensions for PED's :vincepalm: and JJ Watt who wasn't even his pick!

So in 4 first round picks, 2 are busts and 2 have been busted.

And the guy still has his job!? And you never see and 'Fire Smith' pink soap around here since the last problem Smith was sent packing.

You do from me. RRick Smith should have been out already. He is only good at finding street FA's who catch lightning in a bottle. Then he relies on them the next year and they fall apart.

BigBull17
09-28-2011, 09:05 AM
two of his strengths that do remain are that he genuinely seems to be a competitor and does seem to take well to coaching, which is probably one of the big reasons why he's still in the starting lineup. however, this unfortunately takes away yet another excuse for his poor play (you can't chalk it up to poor attitude) and is yet another indictment on smith and the rest of the scouting department for missing out on his lack of skills. the amount of first-round corners available when the texans picked makes this even more maddening.

He is also a decent tackler. That seemed to be a main focus of previous DB focus. I think it is idiotic to use CB tackling as your #1 focus when drafting a CB. Same as the safeties that can both play SS. WTF do you NOT want a guy who can roan in center field and make a mother****ing play!? We wasted so many years on idiots coaching the defense.

76Texan
09-28-2011, 09:16 AM
That is the thing that worries me about Kareem...wasn't he supposed to be a press Corner?

How does it turn out that that seems to be the worst part of his game? All he did was give up short routes, I mean it's good he's not getting beat as often as last year but to see him playing so far off when playing short routes is supposed to be his thing?

I still have faith in the guy though, last game though was tough.

To me it looks like a combination of things:

Sometimes, he was in deep coverage (cover 3 and cover 4 for example) and the receiver recognized it and sit; Brees, of course, can read coverage as well as anyone in this league.

At other times, both Joseph and Jackson simply played off-man and only reacted back when they were sure the receiver didn't go deep.
Again, Brees knew exactly what to do.

The Saints receivers also ran good routes.
On the TD to Moore, for example, the receiver knew where the ball was going; he ran past the ball to lure Jackson away and turn around to make the catch on his back shoulder.
It didn't help that Brees had a wide open window in front of him (the gap between the two guards were humongous. I have big problem with Wade's pass rush scheme on this particular play and a few others.)
In the meantime, both safeties were dedicated to double up somewhere else; Manning jumped on McCain's man while Nolan looked to help Cushing and Cushing only.

When I have some time I will post the screen shots to show some of those plays.
This was a game where Wade didn't have good coverage disguise, and I have no idea why.
Also, the pressure by the D-line was spotty in the 4th quarter; and when a D-lineman put a hand up, Brees was able to avoid it.

For once, this looked like the D from the last year: none of the units played well and the D scheme left a lot to be desired.

Vinny
09-28-2011, 11:24 AM
To me it looks like a combination of things:

Sometimes, he was in deep coverage (cover 3 and cover 4 for example) and the receiver recognized it and sit; Brees, of course, can read coverage as well as anyone in this league.

At other times, both Joseph and Jackson simply played off-man and only reacted back when they were sure the receiver didn't go deep.
Again, Brees knew exactly what to do.

The Saints receivers also ran good routes.
On the TD to Moore, for example, the receiver knew where the ball was going; he ran past the ball to lure Jackson away and turn around to make the catch on his back shoulder.
It didn't help that Brees had a wide open window in front of him (the gap between the two guards were humongous. I have big problem with Wade's pass rush scheme on this particular play and a few others.)
In the meantime, both safeties were dedicated to double up somewhere else; Manning jumped on McCain's man while Nolan looked to help Cushing and Cushing only.

When I have some time I will post the screen shots to show some of those plays.
This was a game where Wade didn't have good coverage disguise, and I have no idea why.
Also, the pressure by the D-line was spotty in the 4th quarter; and when a D-lineman put a hand up, Brees was able to avoid it.

For once, this looked like the D from the last year: none of the units played well and the D scheme left a lot to be desired.
at the end, the Texans were in man almost exclusively when the Saints went pure spread. This is why Quinn was beat with no help and KJ was beat up repeatedly with the Brees pitch-n-catch for another SAINTS FIRST DOWN!

Hervoyel
09-28-2011, 12:32 PM
What I don't understand for the life of me, is that other than the odd passing comment, Rick Smith hardly seems to get any heat for this at all.

This is a man who's first round picks have included Okoye and Jackson :vincepalm: 2 more who've had suspensions for PED's :vincepalm: and JJ Watt who wasn't even his pick!

So in 4 first round picks, 2 are busts and 2 have been busted.

And the guy still has his job!? And you never see and 'Fire Smith' pink soap around here since the last problem Smith was sent packing.


The reason you don't see much in the way of that sentiment I think is that many of us "pink soapers" have concluded that McNair is an ***** where picking football people is concerned and that he'll most likely stay with a lousy GM even longer than he will a lousy coach. There's no point in raising a bunch of hell about Rick Smith. He's here at least as long as Kubiak is (and Kubiak seems to be almost indestructable).

This is the season where we see success or change follows (supposedly). It has to play itself out. Right now despite the loss we're not looking too bad. The Saints rolled on Green Bay. Green Bay is the defending champion. Nobody knows if we're going to do our annual belly-flop again.

We're all just being carried along by the current so far as the Texans are concerned. I'm just tired of bitching (hard to believe I know) and have determined to simply enjoy what I can enjoy and ignore what I can't control. Plenty of time to rage and make an ass out of myself later in the year if things go badly. It's too soon to start that yet.

EllisUnit
09-28-2011, 05:12 PM
Shoulda just posted this in one of the dozen other "Jackson Sucks" threads.


KJ didnt fall down against the Aints .... But Glover Quinn did. :vincepalm:

i'm pretty sure this thread from january was one of the first jackson sucks threads.

EllisUnit
09-28-2011, 05:15 PM
To me it looks like a combination of things:

Sometimes, he was in deep coverage (cover 3 and cover 4 for example) and the receiver recognized it and sit; Brees, of course, can read coverage as well as anyone in this league.

At other times, both Joseph and Jackson simply played off-man and only reacted back when they were sure the receiver didn't go deep.
Again, Brees knew exactly what to do.

The Saints receivers also ran good routes.
On the TD to Moore, for example, the receiver knew where the ball was going; he ran past the ball to lure Jackson away and turn around to make the catch on his back shoulder.
It didn't help that Brees had a wide open window in front of him (the gap between the two guards were humongous. I have big problem with Wade's pass rush scheme on this particular play and a few others.)
In the meantime, both safeties were dedicated to double up somewhere else; Manning jumped on McCain's man while Nolan looked to help Cushing and Cushing only.

When I have some time I will post the screen shots to show some of those plays.
This was a game where Wade didn't have good coverage disguise, and I have no idea why.
Also, the pressure by the D-line was spotty in the 4th quarter; and when a D-lineman put a hand up, Brees was able to avoid it.

For once, this looked like the D from the last year: none of the units played well and the D scheme left a lot to be desired.

:vincepalm: i am ready for all these "excuses" for jackson. But lets not do it in my (WHY DOES EVERYBODY MAKE EXCUSES FOR KJ) thread.....thatd be to ironic

badboy
09-28-2011, 06:21 PM
He may simply lack the physical attributes, like speed. If that's the case, then his ceiling has been reached.
Kj has the speed it is how he uses the speed. He is a bump and run type corner that did not see NFL type WRs in college. He got juked out of his socks last season and often missed his "bump". He played in shell shock with no coaching help. IMO his success lies between his ears as coaching no longer an issue.

EllisUnit
09-28-2011, 07:10 PM
You don't like Duane Brown? I think he's done a great job of solidifying the LT position. Why is Jackson face guarding Lance Moore in the endzone?!?!?! That puts the back shoulder throw on a silver platter for lil breesy.. :roast:

pretty sure kubiak has been involved in 5 drafts

infantrycak
09-28-2011, 07:20 PM
pretty sure kubiak has been involved in 5 drafts

6 - 2006,7,8,9,10 & 11. Smith in the 5 after 2006

EllisUnit
09-28-2011, 07:21 PM
6 - 2006,7,8,9,10 & 11. Smith in the 5 after 2006

yeah but the first year kubiak was new, i doubt he had much to do with the picks. i think casserly had his hand in most of that. i dont really count that one, he dont get credit for M.W

infantrycak
09-28-2011, 07:45 PM
yeah but the first year kubiak was new, i doubt he had much to do with the picks. i think casserly had his hand in most of that. i dont really count that one, he dont get credit for M.W

Casserly was lame duck and Kubiak was a brand new HC probably already searching for the GM he was going to be allowed to pick, i.e. had unusual power. There was a real good indication Kubiak had final say on the picks from the story of the OD pick where shortly after the draft Kubiak said Casserly had to convince him to take OD. It was meant as a compliment to Casserly but tells you the power structure. There were also reports Casserly wanted Bush over Williams. DeMeco doesn't tell us much since he was someone they all expected to be gone and they ran to the podium. Spencer and Winston sure look like picks by a guy about to build an OL (rather than a GM who had shown no talent for finding OLmen). Direct stories and inference support Kubiak being in charge. That doesn't mean Casserly gets no credit for setting up the scout team which provided all the information and for whatever advice he gave.

EllisUnit
09-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Casserly was lame duck and Kubiak was a brand new HC probably already searching for the GM he was going to be allowed to pick, i.e. had unusual power. There was a real good indication Kubiak had final say on the picks from the story of the OD pick where shortly after the draft Kubiak said Casserly had to convince him to take OD. It was meant as a compliment to Casserly but tells you the power structure. There were also reports Casserly wanted Bush over Williams. DeMeco doesn't tell us much since he was someone they all expected to be gone and they ran to the podium. Spencer and Winston sure look like picks by a guy about to build an OL (rather than a GM who had shown no talent for finding OLmen). Direct stories and inference support Kubiak being in charge. That doesn't mean Casserly gets no credit for setting up the scout team which provided all the information and for whatever advice he gave.

i agree kubiak and Co have made SOME good pics. i wasnt the one who stated that all their draft pics were busts. The guy said 4 drafts, i said 5 when i guess in reality it was 6

devo-x
09-28-2011, 09:04 PM
Is it time for Brandon Harris to start for Kareem yet?

DocBar
09-28-2011, 09:06 PM
Is it time for Brandon Harris to start for Kareem yet?yes.

TEXANRED
09-28-2011, 09:18 PM
yes.

No. We need to see Jason Allen get beat and fall down some more first.

DocBar
09-28-2011, 09:34 PM
No. We need to see Jason Allen get beat and fall down some more first.Ypu're a glutton for punishment. My wife would love you.

Carr Bombed
09-29-2011, 12:47 AM
yeah but the first year kubiak was new, i doubt he had much to do with the picks. i think casserly had his hand in most of that. i don't really count that one, he dont get credit for M.W


So? Wade Phillips is new and he had EVERYTHING to do with our last draft. Being the new guy actually likely gave him more stroke. He was a new voice who didn't have the "loser stench" that everyone else in this organization had. I have no doubt in my mind that if Kubiak really wanted Bush, he could've had him. He was a brand new head coach with a lame duck G.M. who was coming to a team that was 2-14 and drafting #1 ovrl. Me thinks Kubiak had the freedom to pick whoever he wanted #1 ovrl and had a BIG influence on the rest of that 2006 draft.

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 11:44 AM
absolutely not.. i think there's legitimate hope for harris, and he should be on the bench observing what NOT to do.

If anything, McCain should start, Harris Should be the nickel, Kareem & Allen should get playing time if we go to dime or someone gets hurt. That should be their final shot to start on this team. If they can't get it done, or they get the wrong attitude, see ya, wouldn't want to be ya.

I say that, totally ignoring that Kareem wasn't thrown at much for the first half. I don't know if that was because of the pressure on the QB, or if he was doing his job. It's really hard to tell watching it on the tube.

But I trust Wade & Gary (in that order) so I won't be too upset if KJax is starting against Pittsburgh. I don't think I would be able to understand what is going on if Harris is not activated.

JJo, Kjax, McCain, Harris, McMannis, Allen..... that should be our depth chart at CB right now. If we're going to suit up 4 CBs, it should be the first four. If we're bringing 5, it should be the first 5. I'm giving KJax the benefit of the doubt + his draft slot. If he basically got lucky that Brees didn't have time to get to him in the first half, he slides down the list just ahead of Allen. AFAIC(concerned) he is no better than Allen, Allen is no better than he is.

infantrycak
09-29-2011, 11:54 AM
I don't think I would be able to understand what is going on if Harris is not activated.

Harris may have all the physical ability and technique to start but they may not be activating him because he isn't displaying in practice that he understands his responsibilities and reads so gets out of place.

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 12:01 PM
Harris may have all the physical ability and technique to start but they may not be activating him because he isn't displaying in practice that he understands his responsibilities and reads so gets out of place.

But KJax is? I believe I heard Gary talking about our CBs not playing tight on their man when they were explicitly told to do so..... I have to assume he was talking about KJ.

Besides, I'm talking activated, never said anything about starting.

I have no problem with Kubiak wanting his players to act like pros... I don't understand Harris not doing his part. If he's doing his part, I can't believe KJ & Jason Allen both have a gameday spot & he doesn't.

It may be what is happening, I just can't understand it happening.

76Texan
09-29-2011, 01:17 PM
But KJax is? I believe I heard Gary talking about our CBs not playing tight on their man when they were explicitly told to do so..... I have to assume he was talking about KJ.

Besides, I'm talking activated, never said anything about starting.

I have no problem with Kubiak wanting his players to act like pros... I don't understand Harris not doing his part. If he's doing his part, I can't believe KJ & Jason Allen both have a gameday spot & he doesn't.

It may be what is happening, I just can't understand it happening.

I'm still trying to decipher exactly what it was that Kubiak was saying.
The reporter asked him about how he thinks KJax didn't play close to the vest in the 4th quarter,
Kubiak was kinda vague in his answer.
I think he was wanting to say he wished Wade had played the CBs tighter.

I had taken all the screen shots of the Saints last 3 drives (not counting the last one when they run out the clock.

KJax played closer to the LOS than Joseph quite a bit.

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 02:25 PM
KJax played closer to the LOS than Joseph quite a bit.

Kubiak didn't single anyone out. He said that the players needed to trust the coaches & if they tell them to play tight, it's for a reason.

Blake
09-29-2011, 02:41 PM
Aint nothing new. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75798&highlight=kareem+jackson

We should have signed another starting CB in the offseason. Besides Glover we didnt have a single starting caliber DB on the roster.

Hell at this point I am OK with proposing a trade with Philly, our first round pick for Samuels.

Rey
09-29-2011, 03:24 PM
I'm still trying to decipher exactly what it was that Kubiak was saying.
The reporter asked him about how he thinks KJax didn't play close to the vest in the 4th quarter,
Kubiak was kinda vague in his answer.
I think he was wanting to say he wished Wade had played the CBs tighter.

I had taken all the screen shots of the Saints last 3 drives (not counting the last one when they run out the clock.

KJax played closer to the LOS than Joseph quite a bit.

That's probably true.

But that said, who do you think has the better ability to play off a man but still come up and make a play on a short route?

Hint: it's not kareem

It's entirely possible that the coaches could have the corners playing differently on any given play for any number of reasons.

I don't know if Kareem wasn't doing what he was asked to do. That's speculation.

What I do know is that he was picked on late in the game. He is limited in what he can do and that is painfully obvious now if it never has been.

fiasco west
09-29-2011, 03:57 PM
Aint nothing new. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75798&highlight=kareem+jackson

We should have signed another starting CB in the offseason. Besides Glover we didnt have a single starting caliber DB on the roster.

Hell at this point I am OK with proposing a trade with Philly, our first round pick for Samuels.

Colts Cut Justin Tryon bout a day ago. Can he really be worse than what we have behind Joseph? Hope the Texans work him out.

badboy
09-29-2011, 04:30 PM
Aint nothing new. http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75798&highlight=kareem+jackson

We should have signed another starting CB in the offseason. Besides Glover we didnt have a single starting caliber DB on the roster.

Hell at this point I am OK with proposing a trade with Philly, our first round pick for Samuels.Think I read that Philly want a 2nd this draft and a 2nd in 2013. I'd do that.

welsh texan
09-29-2011, 04:45 PM
I'd rather see Jackson out there for the rest of the season than forcing Brandon Harris to start too soon and ending up in the same boat with him.

There is a reason why he's not seeing the field right now, I have no problem with him seeing limited action at some point, that would be a great indication of his improvement.

We need to stop throwing these corners into the fire, look at what happened to Fred Bennett and he coped well to start with.

infantrycak
09-29-2011, 04:53 PM
I'd rather see Jackson out there for the rest of the season than forcing Brandon Harris to start too soon and ending up in the same boat with him.

There is a reason why he's not seeing the field right now, I have no problem with him seeing limited action at some point, that would be a great indication of his improvement.

We need to stop throwing these corners into the fire, look at what happened to Fred Bennett and he coped well to start with.

Yeah this conversation is kind of ironically funny because of all the excoriating Kubiak got for starting KJ as rookie and now they want to stick a rookie in.

EllisUnit
09-29-2011, 04:58 PM
So? Wade Phillips is new and he had EVERYTHING to do with our last draft. Being the new guy actually likely gave him more stroke. He was a new voice who didn't have the "loser stench" that everyone else in this organization had. I have no doubt in my mind that if Kubiak really wanted Bush, he could've had him. He was a brand new head coach with a lame duck G.M. who was coming to a team that was 2-14 and drafting #1 ovrl. Me thinks Kubiak had the freedom to pick whoever he wanted #1 ovrl and had a BIG influence on the rest of that 2006 draft.

yeah but we all knew that the draft would be focused on defense regardless of if wade cam in our not.

thunderkyss
09-29-2011, 05:06 PM
Yeah this conversation is kind of ironically funny because of all the excoriating Kubiak got for starting KJ as rookie and now they want to stick a rookie in.

I never had a problem with starting KJax or any rookie at corner. With the secondary & coaches we have now, I most definitely wouldn't have a problem.

But, my solution was to move McCain up a notch & put Harris in as the nickel back. Worst case scenario, I said he should be active to take snaps if we go with 6 DBs... or if someone gets hurt.

Nobody learns to play CB (or any position) on the sideline. The longer we keep him off the field, the longer it would be till he's ready.

welsh texan
09-30-2011, 12:34 PM
One thing that just came to mind, am I right in thinking this time last year KJax had made a reasonable start to the season, and it was mid-season he took a nose-dive?

If so that worries me that he look OK in the first 2 games before looking terrible last week.

thunderkyss
09-30-2011, 12:50 PM
One thing that just came to mind, am I right in thinking this time last year KJax had made a reasonable start to the season, and it was mid-season he took a nose-dive?

If so that worries me that he look OK in the first 2 games before looking terrible last week.

In all honesty, he looked good enough for all but the last 9 minutes of the 4th Qtr.

Last year, I don't know that he ever looked good. Peyton threw for 400 yards on us, I don't think anyone in our secondary looked good. McNabb threw for 400 yards (I think)... & that Joey Galloway pass didn't look very good for Kareem in particular.

HOU-TEX
09-30-2011, 01:41 PM
Per Twitter: KJ didn't practice again, Allen likely to start.

I don't care who's better or who's worse. I'll just say this is definitely not an upgrade. lol

badboy
09-30-2011, 01:46 PM
Yeah this conversation is kind of ironically funny because of all the excoriating Kubiak got for starting KJ as rookie and now they want to stick a rookie in.I want to play Harris because I see him as a better option than KJ and we are not trading for a vet. I want to do well this year because I almost gave up on Texans after last debacle er season. Harris is a different style corner and should do better.

I was only against KJ starting as rookie because he was not the Cb everyone thought he was.

HOU-TEX
09-30-2011, 01:53 PM
I want to play Harris because I see him as a better option than KJ and we are not trading for a vet. I want to do well this year because I almost gave up on Texans after last debacle er season. Harris is a different style corner and should do better.

I was only against KJ starting as rookie because he was not the Cb everyone thought he was.

So tell me, what do you know that the coaches do not? I think it's quite apparent he isn't doing something right considering he's been inactive thus far.

EllisUnit
10-30-2011, 10:33 PM
why is everyone still making excuses for KJ :vincepalm:

Texn4life
10-30-2011, 10:38 PM
why is everyone still making excuses for KJ :vincepalm:

I haven't been following the KJ threads that close..... But aside from the TD he gave up what exactly did he do today that was so terrible? As a rotation corner for a top 5 passing defense I think we could do a whole lot worse than what we have.

thunderkyss
10-30-2011, 10:50 PM
I haven't been following the KJ threads that close..... But aside from the TD he gave up what exactly did he do today that was so terrible? As a rotation corner for a top 5 passing defense I think we could do a whole lot worse than what we have.

That's a good question, I'd like to see a list of his bad plays over the last 3 games.

The kid has really been playing pretty well.

EllisUnit
10-30-2011, 10:57 PM
That's a good question, I'd like to see a list of his bad plays over the last 3 games.

The kid has really been playing pretty well.

he gave up the lone passing TD of the game in the secondary and had 1 pass defensed against the worst passing offense in the NFL ! WOW what a game

Texn4life
10-30-2011, 10:57 PM
[QUOTE=thunderkyss;1816389]That's a good question, I'd like to see a list of his bad plays over the last 3 games.

The kid has really been playing pretty well.[/QUOTE

Well I'm not taking up for him, but the thing is offenses are going to gain yards in the passing game. In order for them to gain yards then someone is going to most likely get beat in coverage. Tramon Williams was looked at as one of the better coverage corners in the league after last year's playoffs and I've seen him get beat numerous times this year. Cromartie was a corner a lot of people in Houston wanted to sign and he's been beaten like a drum this year after getting a huge contract. I could go on and on, but if the end result is that we're a top 5 defense then what is so terrible about having him on the field?

Texn4life
10-30-2011, 11:00 PM
he gave up the lone passing TD of the game in the secondary and had 1 pass defensed against the worst passing offense in the NFL ! WOW what a game

Antoine Cason was looked at as one of the top rising corners for San Diego last year and he was drafted in the first round in the 20's like KJ and he got beat for 3 touchdowns against Plaxico last week.

EllisUnit
10-30-2011, 11:03 PM
Antoine Cason was looked at as one of the top rising corners for San Diego last year and he was drafted in the first round in the 20's like KJ and he got beat for 3 touchdowns against Plaxico last week.

it appears to me that KJs CB draft class appear to all be busts !!!! Thats wht i am getting from this

Texn4life
10-30-2011, 11:07 PM
it appears to me that KJs CB draft class appear to all be busts !!!! Thats wht i am getting from this

Cason didn't come from his draft class though....... I'm just saying even good corners also give up touchdowns. The fact that he gave up a TD doesn't mean he had a bad game. If a QB throws 1 int in a game, but plays well the rest of the game does that mean he had a bad game?

EllisUnit
10-30-2011, 11:08 PM
Cason didn't come from his draft class though....... I'm just saying even good corners also give up touchdowns. The fact that he gave up a TD doesn't mean he had a bad game. If a QB throws 1 int in a game, but plays well the rest of the game does that mean he had a bad game?

well ask all the Schaub critics that one

Texn4life
10-30-2011, 11:12 PM
well ask all the Schaub critics that one

Well, I would but I guess I'm not around the board long enough so I don't see a Schaub thread or critics. There was a thread about nitpicking after the loss and I would say this kind of qualifies as well. He gave up 1 touchdown..... So what??? We gave up less than 100 yards through the air to them.

EllisUnit
10-31-2011, 07:36 PM
KJ sucks,,,,he sucks,,,,he really really sucks