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Fox
01-05-2011, 05:16 PM
'The Texans said they will be switching to a 3-4 defense, which Phillips has employed for most of his coaching career.'

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7367380.html

Que? I thought we'd do whatever the new guy thought best fit our personnel, apparently that's the 3-4. Is Mario gonna have is hand in the dirt next season or is he gonna be doing his best DWare impression?

mussop
01-05-2011, 05:17 PM
According to Jabba the Hut on 610. So I guess we'll see who was right in the can or cant do it crowd.

I really believe Mario is going to contribute more to this team in a 3/4 than he ever has in the 4/3.

b0ng
01-05-2011, 05:18 PM
'The Texans said they will be switching to a 3-4 defense, which Phillips has employed for most of his coaching career.'

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7367380.html

Que? I thought we'd do whatever the new guy thought best fit our personnel, apparently that's the 3-4. Is Mario gonna have is hand in the dirt next season or is he gonna be doing his best DWare impression?

I'd say DWare impression.

stingray
01-05-2011, 05:18 PM
'The Texans said they will be switching to a 3-4 defense, which Phillips has employed for most of his coaching career.'

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7367380.html

Que? I thought we'd do whatever the new guy thought best fit our personnel, apparently that's the 3-4. Is Mario gonna have is hand in the dirt next season or is he gonna be doing his best DWare impression?

I think he will be a DE. Hand in the dirt.

ThaShark316
01-05-2011, 05:18 PM
'The Texans said they will be switching to a 3-4 defense, which Phillips has employed for most of his coaching career.'

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7367380.html

Que? I thought we'd do whatever the new guy thought best fit our personnel, apparently that's the 3-4. Is Mario gonna have is hand in the dirt next season or is he gonna be doing his best DWare impression?

Hand in the dirt.

The gap responsibility is different in Phillips' 3-4.

Texans could be fast and athletic as **** in 2011.

houstonspartan
01-05-2011, 05:19 PM
What's funny is that there were people who were in a panic about Bill Cowher coming here because he likes the 3-4, yet people were saying, "We don't have the personell for a 3-4!!!!"

Yet, we're switching anyway.

Life is interesting sometimes.

ThaShark316
01-05-2011, 05:20 PM
What's funny is that there were people who were in a panic about Bill Cowher coming here because he likes the 3-4, yet people were saying, "We don't have the personell for a 3-4!!!!"

Yet, we're switching anyway.

Life is interesting sometimes.

:goodpost:

stingray
01-05-2011, 05:22 PM
Looks more and more like we will be drafting Stephen Paea or Marcell Darius in the first round.

Thorn
01-05-2011, 05:22 PM
I don't care what kind of defense they run, as long as it works.

b0ng
01-05-2011, 05:25 PM
Looks more and more like we will be drafting Stephen Paea or Marcell Darius in the first round.

Are either of those NT's?

stingray
01-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Are either of those NT's?

Yes. Paea is not exactly a true 3-4 nose tackle. He weighs about 310 but the guy is stronger than an ox. The thing about both of them is that they are very versatile and can play all three d-line positions in the 3-4.

ThaShark316
01-05-2011, 05:27 PM
Are either of those NT's?

Paea is 6'1", 310 lb DT...

Dareus is 6'4", 306 lb 3-4 DE...

ESAD2-14
01-05-2011, 05:30 PM
I don't care what kind of defense they run, as long as it works.

:clap:

I concur w/ Thornfucius.

Speedy
01-05-2011, 05:38 PM
What's funny is that there were people who were in a panic about Bill Cowher coming here because he likes the 3-4, yet people were saying, "We don't have the personell for a 3-4!!!!"

Yet, we're switching anyway.

Life is interesting sometimes.

Like we have the personnel for a 4-3.

MojoMan
01-05-2011, 05:44 PM
Does Brian Cushing stay at OLB in the 3-4? Or does he move inside to the middle with Demeco Ryans?

TexCanada
01-05-2011, 05:46 PM
Does Brian Cushing stay at OLB in the 3-4? Or does he move inside to the middle with Demeco Ryans?

I would think he would stay outside. He is pretty darn good at rushing the QB.

The Cush
01-05-2011, 05:46 PM
Hand in the dirt.

The gap responsibility is different in Phillips' 3-4.

Texans could be fast and athletic as **** in 2011.

And potentially under-sized, and gauged by power running teams

Hookem Horns
01-05-2011, 05:56 PM
Man, they should have taken Clay Matthews. Hopefully they can find quality DT help in later rounds. The Texans have proven that they can't draft the DT position in the 1st round.

MojoMan
01-05-2011, 05:58 PM
And what about Connor Barwin? He is very light for a 3-4 DE (254 per ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12449)), but he runs well and rushes the passer well. To me he looks like an interesting project as a 3-4 OLB. But since he has never played linebacker before, it is hard to imagine him starting there opening day of the 2011 season. I guess the other option is to trade him.

Austrian
01-05-2011, 06:00 PM
And what about Connor Barwin? He is very light for a 3-4 DE, but he runs well and rushes the passer well. To me he looks like an interesting project as a 3-4 OLB. But since he has never played linebacker before, it is hard to imagine him starting their opening day of the 2011 season. I guess the other option is to trade him.

Barwin was projected to be more of a rush linebacker coming out. Quite a few analysts were surprised when we took him in the 4-3. I think he'll be fine as a 3-4 OLB.

The Cush
01-05-2011, 06:01 PM
And what about Connor Barwin? He is very light for a 3-4 DE, but he runs well and rushes the passer well. To me he looks like an interesting project as a 3-4 OLB. But since he has never played linebacker before, it is hard to imagine him starting their opening day of the 2011 season. I guess the other option is to trade him.

I don't remember last year but game 1 against the Colts I remember several plays where they dropped him back into coverage. Not just that, they had him moving around alot pre-snap it made me really notice how versatile they truly think he is. I'm more worried about the injury than the position change..the guy played TE, then 1 year at DE in college and 1 in the pro's, I think he can make the transition

stingray
01-05-2011, 06:01 PM
Doesn't Clay Matthews play OLB? Isn't he only about 240 lbs?

Carr Bombed
01-05-2011, 06:04 PM
And what about Connor Barwin? He is very light for a 3-4 DE (254 per ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=12449)), but he runs well and rushes the passer well. To me he looks like an interesting project as a 3-4 OLB. But since he has never played linebacker before, it is hard to imagine him starting there opening day of the 2011 season. I guess the other option is to trade him.

They already said he's going to be a OLB.....which is the same position that he was scouted to play by the Patriots. I think the transition will go rather smoothly. The Texans were already standing him up occasionally in their 4-3 defense.

texanhead08
01-05-2011, 06:04 PM
I could see his lining up like this:

OLB Barwin
OLB Cushing or new player
ILB Cushing or Sharpton
ILB Ryans
DE Mario
NT We need one of these bad
DE Smith or new player

I think Wade will use Mario in a variety of ways depending on matchups I could see him standing him up in some situations or have him play with his hand on the ground.
Bruce Smith was a beast in Wade's defense playing DE at 270lbs so I don't see why Mario at 290 can't be just as effective. This is a proactive move and based on our defense the past few years we need to shake things up and do something because what we have been running wasn't working at all.

MojoMan
01-05-2011, 06:04 PM
Doesn't Clay Matthews play OLB? Isn't he only about 240 lbs?

Connor Barwin is definitely big enough to play OLB in the 3-4, but he is rather small to be a DE, which is his current position. DE's in the 3-4 tend to be closer to 300 pounds that 250.

Rozelle
01-05-2011, 06:06 PM
If we go to a 30 front, we’re gonna need a NT. Ngata will be a FA, gotta believe Ravens tag him.
Alan Branch and Gabe Watson should hit the market.


Can Okoye and/or Mitchell play end?

Can Barwin stand up?

Will Mario buy into it?

Mark Anderson won’t be back, too small to play end, lacks skill set to stand up.

Cushing and Ryans should be okay, expect Cushing outside, DeMeco inside.

stingray
01-05-2011, 06:07 PM
Connor Barwin is definitely big enough to play OLB in the 3-4, but he is small to be a DE, which is his current position. DE's in the 3-4 tend to be closer to 300 pounds that 250.

Yeah, I am assuming that he will play OLB and not DE. Also, if Clay Matthews can dominate at OLB in a 3-4, why can't cushing do the same?

beerlover
01-05-2011, 06:08 PM
My biggest question is how much input/control Wade will have? first evaluation process within, grading current Texans. two, free agent market, ranking upcoming free agents or players worth trading for off other teams rosters? three, the draft, how much impact will he have in the war room creating the Texans Draft Board? fourth, who does he add to the coaching staff defensively?

gary
01-05-2011, 06:14 PM
Nagata will be staying put via the franchise tag.

Fox
01-05-2011, 06:17 PM
My biggest question is how much input/control Wade will have? first evaluation process within, grading current Texans. two, free agent market, ranking upcoming free agents or players worth trading for off other teams rosters? three, the draft, how much impact will he have in the war room creating the Texans Draft Board? fourth, who does he add to the coaching staff defensively?

They're making him the highest paid defensive coordinator in the NFL, hopefully they're giving him the concordant authority that you'd expect.

Hagar
01-05-2011, 06:21 PM
Nagata will be staying put via the franchise tag.

Maybe, since there isn't a CBA, there may or maynot be a franchising system next year. But I'm with you, I can't see the Ravens giving this guy up. I suspect there will be a ton of interest for his services.

97roc
01-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Please... Please let the lockout be short. If it goes past camp and preseason were screwed as far as FA goes. Not to mention none of the defensive players will know the new scheme...

Rozelle
01-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Maybe, since there isn't a CBA, there may or maynot be a franchising system next year. But I'm with you, I can't see the Ravens giving this guy up. I suspect there will be a ton of interest for his services.

Have to see how they franchise him, exclusive or non-exclusive.

MojoX
01-05-2011, 06:32 PM
My biggest question is how much input/control Wade will have? first evaluation process within, grading current Texans. two, free agent market, ranking upcoming free agents or players worth trading for off other teams rosters? three, the draft, how much impact will he have in the war room creating the Texans Draft Board? fourth, who does he add to the coaching staff defensively?

McNair has already said they will be getting the players the DC wants. Smith's job is pretty much to get the guys that fit what the profiles given to them by the coaches. But you need a coach who really knows what he wants and knows it when he sees it.

In an interview (I believe at the official site), McNair stated that the team leaned on the evaluations of the recently fired coaches in personnel decisions, including the decision to go young in the secondary. Evaluation was one of the reasons he was insisting on an experienced DC who knew how to construct a defense.

This team will make mistakes, but they won't be handcuffing the coaches.

Grforces
01-05-2011, 06:44 PM
Do you guys think we go NT thru draft or Free agency? I would rather go get a good CB thru free-agency and get a good NT thru draft. Also I been hearing alot about trading Mario for a couple of draft picks or whatever. You think we could get asimou(spelled wrong, the raiders badass CB) for Mario Williams? maybe throw in a future second or third?
Don't get me wrong, I think Wade can find a spot for Mario and make him successful, especially if you put in Mario (olb), Barwin (olb), smith (de) and maybe mitchell or jamison on the other side. atleast for a bilzting, passrush scenerio.

mussop
01-05-2011, 06:50 PM
I could see his lining up like this:

OLB Barwin
OLB Cushing or new player
ILB Cushing or Sharpton
ILB Ryans
DE Mario
NT We need one of these bad
DE Smith or new player

I think Wade will use Mario in a variety of ways depending on matchups I could see him standing him up in some situations or have him play with his hand on the ground.
Bruce Smith was a beast in Wade's defense playing DE at 270lbs so I don't see why Mario at 290 can't be just as effective. This is a proactive move and based on our defense the past few years we need to shake things up and do something because what we have been running wasn't working at all.

Thats how I see it. :goodpost: I really see Mario being a difference maker in this role. When the OC has to take on our new monster DT :) and the OT has to worry about Barwin coming off the edge that will leave Mario 1 on 1 with an OG. Mario's athleticism will takeover.

I know alot of people think the DE in a 3/4 is just there to tie up blocks. Thats because most of the guys that play now are big but dont have great athleticism. There arent alot of Mario Williams around. His size and athletic abilities are rare. I guarantee you Adams is going to move him around to find weak spots then use him to attack them.

Mario will excel as long as we get a space eater in the middle that can tie up blockers and some speed of the edge.

Pollardized
01-05-2011, 07:07 PM
Thats how I see it. :goodpost: I really see Mario being a difference maker in this role. When the OC has to take on our new monster DT :) and the OT has to worry about Barwin coming off the edge that will leave Mario 1 on 1 with an OG. Mario's athleticism will takeover.

I know alot of people think the DE in a 3/4 is just there to tie up blocks. Thats because most of the guys that play now are big but dont have great athleticism. There arent alot of Mario Williams around. His size and athletic abilities are rare. I guarantee you Adams is going to move him around to find weak spots then use him to attack them.

Mario will excel as long as we get a space eater in the middle that can tie up blockers and some speed of the edge.


Did we sign Bud Adams too?????

MojoMan
01-05-2011, 07:26 PM
I could see his lining up like this:

OLB Barwin
OLB Cushing or new player
ILB Cushing or Sharpton
ILB Ryans
DE Mario
NT We need one of these bad
DE Smith or new player

I think Wade will use Mario in a variety of ways depending on matchups I could see him standing him up in some situations or have him play with his hand on the ground.
Bruce Smith was a beast in Wade's defense playing DE at 270lbs so I don't see why Mario at 290 can't be just as effective. This is a proactive move and based on our defense the past few years we need to shake things up and do something because what we have been running wasn't working at all.

The more I think about it, I am seeing:

OLB Barwin/FA/Draft
ILB Bentley/Diles/maybe Sharpton (maybe not)
ILB Ryans
OLB Cushing
DE Williams
NT We need one of these bad (Draft/FA)
DE Okoye/Mitchell

The good NT's are going to be very expensive to acquire through free agency and I do not see anyone currently on the team who even comes close to fitting the bill here. But let's not forget that the Texans still need big-time help in the secondary (CB and FS). With this in mind, it seems unlikely that the Texans will take a NT with their first round draft pick.

In round one of the draft, I would expect a CB or a FS, unless there is an elite pass rushing prospect available. Which in the 3-4 means an OLB. The will almost certainly take a NT in the draft a bit later.

I know that there is a big anti-Okoye cult around here, but he really could be the answer as a 3-4 DE. A 4-3 DE? No way. But a 3-4 DE? Yes. He and Earl Mitchell have what is needed at this position. I expect Mario Williams will learn to adapt to his revised DE duties, but his sack numbers are almost sure to fall off in this role. The primary pass rushers in the 3-4 are the OLB's, not the DE's.

Another option would be to trade Mario Williams to a team with a 4-3 for a king's ransom. In that case the Texans might be able to restaff this ship in a hurry. That actually makes sense here, if you turn your emotions off and think about it rationally for a minute. To be honest, a 3-4 DE position is not an optimal fit by any means for Mario. He could probably serve another team better as a 4-3 DE.

I like Kevin Bentley as the starter at the ILB next to Demeco Ryans. He has the size and the versatility to do well there. Diles would be a good backup. I know Darryl Sharpton is popular right now, but I am not sure he is going to fit in as well as an inside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. And he does not have the profile to be an OLB in the 3-4 at all. He and Adibi could be the odd men out as the Texans transition their roster to meet the needs of their new defensive scheme.

b0ng
01-05-2011, 07:39 PM
Do you guys think we go NT thru draft or Free agency? I would rather go get a good CB thru free-agency and get a good NT thru draft. Also I been hearing alot about trading Mario for a couple of draft picks or whatever. You think we could get asimou(spelled wrong, the raiders badass CB) for Mario Williams? maybe throw in a future second or third?
Don't get me wrong, I think Wade can find a spot for Mario and make him successful, especially if you put in Mario (olb), Barwin (olb), smith (de) and maybe mitchell or jamison on the other side. atleast for a bilzting, passrush scenerio.

I'd say your most sure thing is getting an NT through free agency. Barring that, we use somebody currently on the roster (which is probably not going to be a good thing), and last ditch is to get a player in the draft.

Battle Red Blog article on the subject (http://www.battleredblog.com/2011/1/4/1913068/thats-so-crazy-it-just-might-work-examining-wade-phillips-3-4-scheme).

I think as far as line-ups go, this isn't a bad place to start really. I really do think that Mario is athletic enough to play a role rushing the passer 90% of his snaps and maybe dropping into a flat every once in awhile in coverage. He could probably also do just fine as a DE as well so I'm not sure he's the problem. The real problem I see here is where the NT is going to come from like my friend I quoted up here. I really don't see any real suitable NT for the 3-4 on the roster right now that wouldn't lead to M-M-M-M-MONSTER RUN GAMES for the opposing teams. The ILB's might be a little more difficult to work out and I'm not really sure if Antonio Smith isn't going to turn into the voice of displeasure.

LikeMike
01-05-2011, 07:41 PM
I like the switch for 2 reasons:

1. a switch is exciting! Can`t wait to see where our guys will line up, and how it will work.
2. We seem to be pretty good in drafting LBs but suck at drafting D-Line - now we have 4 LB spots and only 3 D-Line spots to fill ;-).

I don`t like the swith for basically one reason:

1. it usually takes at least 1 season for a team to adjust to the switch - playoffs kinda seem like a pipe dream right now.

I know how bad our secondary is - but NT needs to be our priority now! I guess I´m all for overpaying a proven FA. The NT is the one position that usually makes the 3-4 work or fail (sure, the other guys are important as well) - and we don`t really have a player on the team right now, that can play that part. Drafting NTs always seem to be hit or miss - and the players often don`t produce until they are a couple of years in (unless your name is Suh).

I think we have a couple of guys that can play 3-4 DEs (Mario, Smith, Mitchell, Okoye, Bulman). We need at least 1 more LB (depending on where Cushing lines up) - better 2-3. I can see us drafting 2.

A big FA signing in the secondary would help us out a lot. Champ Bailey would be great, both in the games and in tutoring our young guys.

So after the switch, these are our positions of need imho:

1. NT
2. DB
3. LB
4. DB
5. O-Line
6. NT
7. WR
8. LB
9. Punter

mussop
01-05-2011, 08:02 PM
He might not get the sack total he got in a 4/3 but he will be way more of a difference maker in a 4/3. Sacks are over rated. Go back and watch any game and count how many plays he just ran himself out of the play trying to run around the OT and compare that to his sack total for that game.

He was being miss used terribly in the 4/3. First of all he was on the wrong side. Most of the time the QB didnt even notice him as he just ran by them from behind. He is fast for his size but he is not and never will be a speed off the edge DE.

He should of been on the other side (left) where he would be in the QB eyesight the whole time and at least making the QB think about him. Not to mention on the left side he would be going against the RT which 99.9 % of the time are not near the athletes as their counterparts.

I believe a smart DC like Philips is going to move Mario around but primarily he will be lining up on the left side. As long as he is surrounded by the right talent he will finally live up to his potential.

I would not trade him before allowing Phillips the chance to see what he can do with him.

Number19
01-05-2011, 08:02 PM
There was talk on 610 late this afternoon that Wade's version of the 34 is not the same as what is generally run. It was being referred to as a 1-gap 34 with Mario sliding a bit further outside than normal, in the role that Ware played in Dallas' defense. The NT does not play the normal position over the center but slides over into the gap, on Mario's side. His role is the same as Ratliff's, who is 6'-4" and only about 303 lbs, with Amobi filling this role at 6'-2" and 315 lbs . Cushing will be lining up outside as a LB.

It was discussed that once we became more familiar with Wade's defense we would be quite surprised how well our current personnel would fit in.

TheIronDuke
01-05-2011, 08:03 PM
So when we switch to the 3-4, how will this affect our shitty secondary? Are they suddenly going to not be horrible because of our front 7 or will they still suck like no other secondary has sucked before?

Thorn
01-05-2011, 08:08 PM
So when we switch to the 3-4, how will this affect our shitty secondary? Are they suddenly going to not be horrible because of our front 7 or will they still suck like no other secondary has sucked before?

Since the secondary now officially sucks more than any secondary has ever sucked before, they won't do it next year simply because the Texans are a model of inconsistency.

Number19
01-05-2011, 08:08 PM
Talk on the secondary focused on the fact that this was the primary concern, not the front 7, and we will have to go after some veteran help for immediate improvement.

JB
01-05-2011, 08:17 PM
Talk on the secondary focused on the fact that this was the primary concern, not the front 7, and we will have to go after some veteran help for immediate improvement.

Joesph to man one corner spot, Bailey to play FS.

Championship!

b0ng
01-05-2011, 08:23 PM
So when we switch to the 3-4, how will this affect our shitty secondary? Are they suddenly going to not be horrible because of our front 7 or will they still suck like no other secondary has sucked before?

Less zone, more man, not sure how that's going to affect our corners since they were awful doing both this past season. The real difference maker will be how much more pressure the front 7 brings to the QB. If this does not significantly upgrade our pass rush then this will be a huge expensive failure.

The idea here is to implement more pressure and sacks by the front 7 so the horrifically green secondary doesn't get exposed as often (especially deep). I'm not sure if the first pick is going to be on the DL, or a safety (I doubt they get another 1st round CB).

hot pickle
01-05-2011, 08:32 PM
i imagine that we will bring in some former cowboy players that know wade's system

texanchris
01-05-2011, 08:38 PM
There was talk on 610 late this afternoon that Wade's version of the 34 is not the same as what is generally run. It was being referred to as a 1-gap 34 with Mario sliding a bit further outside than normal, in the role that Ware played in Dallas' defense. The NT does not play the normal position over the center but slides over into the gap, on Mario's side. His role is the same as Ratliff's, who is 6'-4" and only about 303 lbs, with Amobi filling this role at 6'-2" and 315 lbs . Cushing will be lining up outside as a LB.

It was discussed that once we became more familiar with Wade's defense we would be quite surprised how well our current personnel would fit in.

so is it the nose tackles job to penetrate like it was in our current system or is it just to take the double team and try to push the pile?

Cjeremy635
01-05-2011, 08:43 PM
I heard Antonio Smith's comments on my drive home from work on 610. He did NOT sound happy about playing in a 3-4 defense at all. For the record, neither did Mario, but I got the feeling that Mario would at least be open to giving it a shot. I have no problem cutting either one of those cats. Either you're part of the solution, or part of the problem. Their attitudes will have a lot to do with it.

TheIronDuke
01-05-2011, 08:43 PM
Less zone, more man, not sure how that's going to affect our corners since they were awful doing both this past season. The real difference maker will be how much more pressure the front 7 brings to the QB. If this does not significantly upgrade our pass rush then this will be a huge expensive failure.

The idea here is to implement more pressure and sacks by the front 7 so the horrifically green secondary doesn't get exposed as often (especially deep). I'm not sure if the first pick is going to be on the DL, or a safety (I doubt they get another 1st round CB).

Oh, so this is another attempt at getting more pressure on the QB? Cool, good to know what to expect again. So we're just going to suck with 3 dudes hands on the line while 4 dudes behind them and the other 4 dudes behind them get punked over and over until the game ends. Can't wait for the 2011 season.

MojoX
01-05-2011, 09:01 PM
I heard Antonio Smith's comments on my drive home from work on 610. He did NOT sound happy about playing in a 3-4 defense at all. For the record, neither did Mario, but I got the feeling that Mario would at least be open to giving it a shot. I have no problem cutting either one of those cats. Either you're part of the solution, or part of the problem. Their attitudes will have a lot to do with it.

I doubt either guy understands Phillips' system outside of the order of the numbers 3 and 4. I'm waiting until guys have actually had a chance to speak with the new coach before deciding what I think about locker room issues. Hopefully, they don't get too discontented listening to outside voices about the impact of the change on their careers before they learn sbout their new roles on D.

b0ng
01-05-2011, 09:05 PM
Oh, so this is another attempt at getting more pressure on the QB? Cool, good to know what to expect again. So we're just going to suck with 3 dudes hands on the line while 4 dudes behind them and the other 4 dudes behind them get punked over and over until the game ends. Can't wait for the 2011 season.

Pretty much. There's only going to be so much you can do with the back 4 since they are who they are. They will have to undergo some changes, but they won't be as noticeable as the front 7 guys. I'm still not sure if Ryans will fit in here or not, which is kind of sad.

MojoMan
01-05-2011, 09:11 PM
I heard Antonio Smith's comments on my drive home from work on 610. He did NOT sound happy about playing in a 3-4 defense at all. For the record, neither did Mario, but I got the feeling that Mario would at least be open to giving it a shot. I have no problem cutting either one of those cats. Either you're part of the solution, or part of the problem. Their attitudes will have a lot to do with it.

Antonio Smith is probably not going to be starting in a 3-4. But an Okoye/Mitchell tandem might work very well at Smith's spot. As far as Mario goes, another poster indicated that Wade Phillips' version of the 3-4 has one player playing a little further outside than normal, a-la DeMarcus Ware. However, Demarcus Ware is actually an OLB, so I am not sure that situation will actually be to the benefit of Mario Williams.

It may be in the best interests of the Texans and Mario to trade him. Just think what the Texans could get for him. And as far as Smith, he has performed good service here. They should ask him what he wants to do, and then go along with his request as long as it is reasonable.

Here is my early projection of what we go with based on our current roster:

OLB Barwin/FA/Draft
ILB Bentley/Diles/maybe Sharpton (maybe not)
ILB Ryans
OLB Cushing
DE Williams (if he has not been traded)
NT We need one of these bad (Draft/FA)
DE Okoye/Mitchell

Maybe the Texans could trade Mario for a dynamite nose tackle and let Okoye and Mitchell play the ends.

Rozelle
01-05-2011, 09:25 PM
Joesph to man one corner spot, Bailey to play FS.

Championship!

Bailey would be a great pickup! Could use him at corner or cover saftey and he'd be a great mentor for the young guys.

Wade's 34 is a 1 gap attack defense, unlike your traditional odd front of read and react. Mario could be a special player in this defense, don't think he'll play OLB.

b0ng
01-05-2011, 09:29 PM
Maybe the Texans could trade Mario for a dynamite nose tackle and let Okoye and Mitchell play the ends.

I don't know, you would want to trade him for a dynamite 3-4 NT right? Well what team running a 3-4 would want Mario if we can't find a use for him in what has been described as a 3-4 which is nothing more than just a glorified 4-3?

Now if Mario wanted out because he didn't want to play in a 3-4 then yeah, go trade his butt. But if Wade Phillips can't find a use for a guy like Mario Williams I would seriously have to question his talent evaluation.

Habba Da Gut (http://twitter.com/McClain_on_NFL) has been prognosticating (Speculating? Who knows) on what the defensive line-up will look like. He seems to think we're keeping Mario and using him in a similar way that Bruce Smith was used when Wade coached in Buffalo ('95 - 2000).

DerekLee1
01-05-2011, 09:29 PM
I heard Antonio Smith's comments on my drive home from work on 610. He did NOT sound happy about playing in a 3-4 defense at all. For the record, neither did Mario, but I got the feeling that Mario would at least be open to giving it a shot. I have no problem cutting either one of those cats. Either you're part of the solution, or part of the problem. Their attitudes will have a lot to do with it.

I think Smith is concerned about not fitting in and being odd man out. Too small to be a NT or a 3-4 DE, too slow to be a 3-4 OLB. Mario should be salivating. Bruce Smith and DeMarcus Ware excelled under Wade. Cushing should be playing the role of Clay Mathews and should look like Shawne Merriman under Phillips.

Gotta say, I'm pretty excited as the realism is starting to settle in. His head coaching hasn't been exactly disastrous either, with an 82-59 record and 5 playoff appearances. With Gary running the offense and with Wade in his ear with his HC experience, Gary can only improve as a HC.

Jackie Chiles
01-05-2011, 09:29 PM
Antonio Smith is probably not going to be starting in a 3-4.

He absolutely will be. There is not 1 thing that Amobi does better or even as well as Antonio regardless of scheme. Mitchell has a future in this defense but Antonio is one of our starting ends and, I believe, a good one.

Speaking of Mitchell I read a Zierlien tweet a couple days ago saying he could be the backup nose and I actually agree. The lower half on that kid is huge and he should get stronger as he gets older. We still have to find a starter at NT though, would love to see Pat Williams even if its only for a year.

DerekLee1
01-05-2011, 09:40 PM
He absolutely will be. There is not 1 thing that Amobi does better or even as well as Antonio regardless of scheme. Mitchell has a future in this defense but Antonio is one of our starting ends and, I believe, a good one.

Speaking of Mitchell I read a Zierlien tweet a couple days ago saying he could be the backup nose and I actually agree. The lower half on that kid is huge and he should get stronger as he gets older. We still have to find a starter at NT though, would love to see Pat Williams even if its only for a year.

I think Amobi or Smith will be traded. The cowboys' Jay Ratliff is only 6'4 303 and his backup, Josh Brent, is 6'2 315. Smith is 6'3 295, Okoye is 6'2 315, and Mitchell is 6'3 291, meaning a couple of those guys could definitely work fine in Wade's system.

Jason Allen could be re-signed, another veteran DB signed and a ball-hawking safety targeted in the draft. Instant upgrade in talent and coaching, and we could have a top-15 defense out of the gate.

Rozelle
01-05-2011, 09:45 PM
He absolutely will be. There is not 1 thing that Amobi does better or even as well as Antonio regardless of scheme. Mitchell has a future in this defense but Antonio is one of our starting ends and, I believe, a good one.

Speaking of Mitchell I read a Zierlien tweet a couple days ago saying he could be the backup nose and I actually agree. The lower half on that kid is huge and he should get stronger as he gets older. We still have to find a starter at NT though, would love to see Pat Williams even if its only for a year.

When Smith hit the market, if memory serves, he had no interest in any team playing a 3-4. He may be a hard sell, not sure he's a good fit, may be why Zona didn't try to re-sign him.

wagonhed
01-05-2011, 09:50 PM
Couple thoughts. Fellow above me keeps saying Okoye is 315lbs. Dude, I thought he was like 280? I thought I saw that he was slimming down this season for some reason. Didn't he gain weight after his first season here and it hurt his play? Either way, Okoye at NT sounds like a freaking nightmare situation to me.


Second, I'm trying to figure out where Cushing would go. Didn't he play something closer to an OLB in college? It seems like he was often lined up on the line. I'm inclined to say the Sam position he has played for the Texans is a lot closer to a 3-4 ILB than a 3-4 OLB, but I don't really know enough about this to be sure. We know he is definitely capable of rushing the passer.

DerekLee1
01-05-2011, 09:53 PM
Couple thoughts. Fellow above me keeps saying Okoye is 315lbs. Dude, I thought he was like 280? I thought I saw that he was slimming down this season for some reason. Didn't he gain weight after his first season here and it hurt his play? Either way, Okoye at NT sounds like a freaking nightmare situation to me.


Second, I'm trying to figure out where Cushing would go. Didn't he play something closer to an OLB in college? It seems like he was often lined up on the line. I'm inclined to say the Sam position he has played for the Texans is a lot closer to a 3-4 ILB than a 3-4 OLB, but I don't really know enough about this to be sure. We know he is definitely capable of rushing the passer.

Okoye is listed at 315 on the Texans' site, but that may be an exaggeration. http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster/Amobi-Okoye/a203a14f-e804-45e1-b4b8-48c5a4abe5e4

I'm thinking Cushing becomes the Texans' version of the Chargers' Merriman under Wade. (Steroid connection not intended) Merriman became a superstar once Phillips installed his system in SD, and I'd expect the same for Cush. Much like Mathews in GB. He was typically our extra rusher in the 4-3 scheme so I expect he'll be the standup rusher in the 3-4 just the same.

DerekLee1
01-05-2011, 09:55 PM
so is it the nose tackles job to penetrate like it was in our current system or is it just to take the double team and try to push the pile?

Yes.

MojoMan
01-05-2011, 10:11 PM
Couple thoughts. Fellow above me keeps saying Okoye is 315lbs. Dude, I thought he was like 280? I thought I saw that he was slimming down this season for some reason.

He was supposedly 285, lean and mean, going into training camp this season. That is a lower weight than what he played at in previous seasons. It seems unlikely that he gained 25 pounds from the beginning of training camp to the end of the season. In any case, it appears that he can certainly play at around 300 or a little under if asked to do so. He is the perfect size for a 3-4 DE.

Playoffs
01-05-2011, 10:14 PM
Does Brian Cushing stay at OLB in the 3-4? Or does he move inside to the middle with Demeco Ryans?That Clay Matthews selection would have come in handy right around now.

TEXANRED
01-05-2011, 10:16 PM
I am completely fired up about this hire. Not just b/c he is Bum's son but look at his accomplishments: It's from the official board but I edited it.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Texans-hire-Wade-Phillips-as-defensive-coordinator/1eca9d2f-1d85-4aaf-b6d1-84004718eef9

Phillips brings 35 years of coaching experience with him to the Texans, the last 29 years spent as a defensive coordinator or head coach.
12 top-10 defensive performances
lead teams to 11 playoff appearances, all since 1988.
reached the playoffs in the first season with each of the last seven teams

head coach of the Dallas Cowboys from 2007 until midway through the 2010 season, compiling a 34-22 record (.607 winning pct.).
the Cowboys’ defense gave up an average of 329.9 yards per game to rank 10th in the NFL during his tenure producing three straight winning seasons two playoff appearances and the franchise’s first playoff win in 12 seasons in 2009.
He owns a career coaching record of 83-66, including the postseason.
defensive coordinator for the San Diego Chargers from 2004-06. The Chargers gave up fewer than 20 points per game
three straight winning seasons and qualified for the playoffs in 2004 and 2006.
From 1998-2000, Phillips was the head coach of the Buffalo Bills, compiling a 29-19 record and leading the team to two playoff appearances and the top overall defense in that time. Buffalo led the NFL in total defense in 1999, allowing only 266.2 yards and 14.3 points per game. Before taking the reins in Buffalo, he was the team’s defensive coordinator from 1995-97.
Phillips’ first coordinator position came with the New Orleans Saints from 1981-85. He then moved on to serve as defensive coordinator and linebackers coach for the Philadelphia Eagles from 1986-88.

DerekLee1
01-05-2011, 10:27 PM
I am completely fired up about this hire. Not just b/c he is Bum's son but look at his accomplishments: It's from the official board but I edited it.

Most importantly, he's gonna get in Kubiak's ear and explain to him FIRSTHAND how he's gotta let go of the coordinator duties and become a head coach. When Wade was forced to take over as DC again WHILE he was head coach was when the cowboys really started to unravel.

b0ng
01-05-2011, 10:42 PM
That Clay Matthews selection would have come in handy right around now.

Meh, we got Barwin in the 2nd so I'm not too sure that we need to pick up another pass rush OLB early in the draft. I think Cushing would do serious damage and be very useful as an ILB in the 3-4. Not sure if Demeco would have the same impact on the inside as does in the previous scheme we used.

Texan4Ever
01-05-2011, 10:45 PM
Couple thoughts. Fellow above me keeps saying Okoye is 315lbs. Dude, I thought he was like 280? I thought I saw that he was slimming down this season for some reason. Didn't he gain weight after his first season here and it hurt his play? Either way, Okoye at NT sounds like a freaking nightmare situation to me.


Second, I'm trying to figure out where Cushing would go. Didn't he play something closer to an OLB in college? It seems like he was often lined up on the line. I'm inclined to say the Sam position he has played for the Texans is a lot closer to a 3-4 ILB than a 3-4 OLB, but I don't really know enough about this to be sure. We know he is definitely capable of rushing the passer.



Okoye is listed at 315-Lbs the last time I checked so I wouldn't trust Yahoo Sports on much, they even have stats for players wrong all the time.

Cushing played the "Elephant" position in the Trojans defense, here's a forum that talks about it: http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=390217&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Someone is the past posted an article which exaplined in depth Cushing's role and the Trojan defense, but I dunno where it went.

hookinreds
01-05-2011, 10:48 PM
Nagata will be staying put via the franchise tag.

Do the Ravens tag Ngata or Reed????

hookinreds
01-05-2011, 10:50 PM
Joesph to man one corner spot, Bailey to play FS.

Championship!

JB, I'd grab Bailey to play CB for at least a year and then move him to FS. He's getting up there in age, but still has a couple solid years left, and his leadership would huge to "the kids".

Allstar
01-05-2011, 10:51 PM
I heard Antonio Smith's comments on my drive home from work on 610. He did NOT sound happy about playing in a 3-4 defense at all. For the record, neither did Mario, but I got the feeling that Mario would at least be open to giving it a shot. I have no problem cutting either one of those cats. Either you're part of the solution, or part of the problem. Their attitudes will have a lot to do with it.

You can't honestly have no problem with cutting Mario Williams. :wadepalm:

JB
01-05-2011, 10:54 PM
JB, I'd grab Bailey to play CB for at least a year and then move him to FS. He's getting up there in age, but still has a couple solid years left, and his leadership would huge to "the kids".

Word is he is wanting to switch to FS now to prolong his career a couple of more years. I think he could mentor from there just fine.

DerekLee1
01-05-2011, 10:55 PM
Do the Ravens tag Ngata or Reed????

I don't think Reed's contract is up, is it?

Texan4Ever
01-05-2011, 11:03 PM
I see our situation on defense similar to that of the Packers (with the exception that the Packers have a better secondary). They had a DE in Aaron Kampman who didn't fir there 3-4 scheme just like we have Mario Williams who, may or may not fit the role of DE in a 3-4.

The Packers drafted a nose tackle and a pass-rushing OLB during the year they converted and took the defensive tackles they had, bulked em' up, and were able to successfully implement the scheme with no major problems.

The Texans have to do the same thing. Get a quick nose tackle or an immovabe mass to plug the holes as a nose tackle, teach our players to communicate, and get the LBs to work on pass-rushing. Doing this will help ease the growing pains of implementing a 3-4.

steelbtexan
01-05-2011, 11:05 PM
What's funny is that there were people who were in a panic about Bill Cowher coming here because he likes the 3-4, yet people were saying, "We don't have the personell for a 3-4!!!!"

Yet, we're switching anyway.

Life is interesting sometimes.

Ironic isn't it.

This was just another excuse used by the pro Kubiak crowd.

What's sad is that after 5 yrs of drafting for a 4-3. This team can change over to a 3-4 and actually be better than if they still ran a 4-3.

This is another sign of inept talent evaluation.

Hopefully Phillips gets carte blanche to get whoever he wants in FA and the draft.

hookinreds
01-05-2011, 11:15 PM
Word is he is wanting to switch to FS now to prolong his career a couple of more years. I think he could mentor from there just fine.

Yea, I was talking about the FS move with my Bronco buddy too, but I still like to have him CB for one year first if he could do it. Either way, we need him on this team.

hookinreds
01-05-2011, 11:17 PM
I don't think Reed's contract is up, is it?

Your right...extended through 2012...not sure why I thought he was FA.

Tango
01-05-2011, 11:24 PM
Here's what Kubes & Phillips are saying specifically about Mario in the 3-4...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7367380.html
“Wade feels confident about running a 3-4, and I’m excited about that,” Kubiak said. “Wade said he feels good about the talent we have and how he’ll use the players.

“He said (defensive end) Mario (Williams) has to be one of our most successful players and that it’s up to him to put Mario in position to do that. Wade talked about some things he did with Bruce Smith in Buffalo compared to what he’ll do with Mario, and I like what I hear.”

Smith, who’s in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, recorded 65 sacks in six seasons of playing for Phillips.

“What we do depends on the players we have and the situation (down and distance),” Phillips said. “I’m really excited about working with Mario and seeing how we can take advantage of all that talent.

“I think there are ways I can help him, technique-wise, and putting him in the right matchups. He’s a special guy.”


Phillips doing with Mario what he did with Bruce Smith in Buffalo? Hmmm, intriguing!

Brisco_County
01-05-2011, 11:36 PM
I'm excited about this. We have almost all the personnel we need, and the rest aren't hard to acquire. I used to think that the switch to a 3-4 takes at least a couple of years, but I saw the Packers do it very successfully using only the first round of one draft.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen more discussion about Barwin. The guy is perfect as a 3-4 OLB. At his size, he was still a formidable sack threat off the line. I can't wait to see him as an OLB.

Antonio Smith was strong enough to play well as a DT, so I can see him doing just fine as a 3-4 DE. If he doesn't want to buy into it, we could fetch good value for him, but I'm hoping he gives it a fair shot.

Mario is the one I'm the most excited about. He would give QB's real nightmares as an OLB. His 40 speed at the combine was 4.66. Clay Matthews' 40 speed was 4.67. Who's going to stop a 6'7", 290 lbs linebacker running at you with 4.66 speed and four years' worth of DL hand skills? Offenses will have to keep a fullback and TE on that side on every play. Under Phillips, Mario could be the most dangerous man on the field.

(edit: Just read the press release above. Looks like he stays at DE. I'm still looking forward to it.)

With Mario at OLB, Cushing would move inside. I'm not worried about his learning curve, given his work ethic. He could be an unaccounted X-factor after Mario draws extra protection.

Most importantly, he's gonna get in Kubiak's ear and explain to him FIRSTHAND how he's gotta let go of the coordinator duties and become a head coach. When Wade was forced to take over as DC again WHILE he was head coach was when the cowboys really started to unravel.

Not so true. The defense immediately improved. But I'm hoping he will get in Kubiak's ear on using challenges and managing the clock.

DerekLee1
01-05-2011, 11:39 PM
Not so true. The defense immediately improved. But I'm hoping he will get in Kubiak's ear on using challenges and managing the clock.

Initially, yes. But over the course of a season and a half, it kept getting worse. I've never been the HC on a college or NFL team, but I would imagine it's a pretty hefty responsibility to have a HC and coordinator role simultaneously. That weight would get heavier and heavier. Maybe that's why the offense did so well when Matt took over playcalling in the 2-minute drills.

Norg
01-06-2011, 12:02 AM
Im not to worried becasue the best time to switch back and forth is the offseason due to

-Having time to bring in the new players like 3 or 4 N/T for the offseason
-CUting and getting rid of some of the current players

and the man thing is practicing in the offseason with this new 3-4

sometexansfan
01-06-2011, 12:06 AM
As long as it's better than our old 3-4.

Norg
01-06-2011, 12:08 AM
TBO the capers era D was decent at least in dat 7-9 year LOL

THe O was always the problem not scoring enough points

mussop
01-06-2011, 12:13 AM
He might not get the sack total he got in a 4/3 but he will be way more of a difference maker in a 4/3. Sacks are over rated. Go back and watch any game and count how many plays he just ran himself out of the play trying to run around the OT and compare that to his sack total for that game.

He was being miss used terribly in the 4/3. First of all he was on the wrong side. Most of the time the QB didnt even notice him as he just ran by them from behind. He is fast for his size but he is not and never will be a speed off the edge DE.

He should of been on the other side (left) where he would be in the QB eyesight the whole time and at least making the QB think about him. Not to mention on the left side he would be going against the RT which 99.9 % of the time are not near the athletes as their counterparts.

I believe a smart DC like Philips is going to move Mario around but primarily he will be lining up on the left side. As long as he is surrounded by the right talent he will finally live up to his potential.

I would not trade him before allowing Phillips the chance to see what he can do with him.



Like I said.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/7367380.html
Quote:
“Wade feels confident about running a 3-4, and I’m excited about that,” Kubiak said. “Wade said he feels good about the talent we have and how he’ll use the players.

“He said (defensive end) Mario (Williams) has to be one of our most successful players and that it’s up to him to put Mario in position to do that. Wade talked about some things he did with Bruce Smith in Buffalo compared to what he’ll do with Mario, and I like what I hear.”

Smith, who’s in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, recorded 65 sacks in six seasons of playing for Phillips.

“What we do depends on the players we have and the situation (down and distance),” Phillips said. “I’m really excited about working with Mario and seeing how we can take advantage of all that talent.

“I think there are ways I can help him, technique-wise, and putting him in the right matchups. He’s a special guy.”

BigBull17
01-06-2011, 09:13 AM
You can't honestly have no problem with cutting Mario Williams. :wadepalm:

God bless, he would be far and away the most sought after FA by a great distance. damn near every team would make him a fat offer. Great idea by the poster you quoted...

Do the Ravens tag Ngata or Reed????

I would make an offer to which ever one they don't tag. Ngata is a freaking beast.

Word is he is wanting to switch to FS now to prolong his career a couple of more years. I think he could mentor from there just fine.

Two birds, one stone. You get a FS, and a guy to mentor the CB's.

gary
01-06-2011, 09:56 AM
A middle of the pack D and I'll be pleased but you always stride for more of course.

Playoffs
01-06-2011, 10:06 AM
You can't honestly have no problem with cutting Mario Williams. :wadepalm:

:kubepalm::wadepalm::mariopalm:

beerlover
01-06-2011, 12:05 PM
A day after I'm not so certain its a given the Texans switch to a 3-4 at least right away. When Frank Bush to the sword for his HC three defensive assistants also took the ax, David Gibbs secondary coach, Johnny Holland LB coach along with his assistant, Robert Saleh. The defensive assistant who is still employed by the Texans is Bill Kollar, he who likes smaller, quicker DL.

He was DL coach in Buffalo 07-08 but that was long after Wade coached there (1998-2000, Phillips was the head coach of the Buffalo Bills, compiling a 29-19 record). I can't seem to find the connection or how his style works with Wade other than years of experience on the defensive side. Which leads me to believe the Texans will implement some type of hybrid 4-3 that often times looks like a 3-4. At the beginning of season I think we saw something similar, but once Barwin went down that was it. We lacked the talent & players to run it effectively, then DeMeco was the nail in the coffin.

thoughts? does Houston still run the 4-3 but in hybrid mode?