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Double Barrel
01-05-2011, 01:57 PM
How Good Is Peyton Manning? Texans and Jaguars Provide a Clue

As foreshadowed in this space last week, Peyton Manning broke the league record for completions in a season. He also led the league in sack rate, a factor often ignored when judging the talent of a quarterback. But then there are many ways to rate a quarterback. Take the news out of Jacksonville and Houston this week.

The Jaguars’ owner, Wayne Weaver, chose to retain Coach Jack Del Rio, although Del Rio will have to relinquish his defensive play-calling responsibilities. To the dismay of many Jaguars fans, Del Rio failed to lead Jacksonville to a winning record for the fourth time in five seasons. The Texans are also sticking with their coach, Gary Kubiak, even though Houston hasn’t had a winning record in four of the last five years, including this season.

Since the A.F.L-N.F.L. merger in 1970, only four head coaches have a) finished with a .500 or worse record in four out of five seasons with the same team, b) finished with a .500 or worse record in the fifth season, and c) were retained to coach for a sixth season.

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John Fox just finished his fourth non-winning season in five years in Carolina, and was let go. But Kubiak and Del Rio? They’ll be back, despite not having the cachet of Bart Starr, or the pedigrees of McKay or Reeves, and despite the fact that they didn’t inherit the hopeless situations that Lewis and McKay did. What they have, instead, may be the most hopeless situation of all: competing against Peyton Manning.

Whether Weaver or Houston’s owner, Bob McNair, want to admit it, Manning and the Colts have changed expectations in the division. Indianapolis is the division’s overlord, having won the A.F.C. South in seven of the last eight seasons. The 2008 Titans had to post the league’s best record at 13-3 to edge out the 12-4 Colts for the division crown. In Houston and Jacksonville, merely competing with Indianapolis is a sign of progress. The Texans were 1-15 against the Colts entering this season, but played them even in 2010, splitting the season series. The Jaguars won a bunch of games in the fourth quarter this year, but no game inspired more confidence than when they dethroned the Colts in Week 4. Bringing back Del Rio and quarterback David Garrard for a fifth run seems absurd given their relative lack of success, but in Jacksonville, expectations are lowered. This year’s team entered the final week of the season with a chance to dethrone the Colts, a step forward by at least one measure.

Kubiak and Del Rio seem to be uninspiring choices to lead teams in 2011. They’ll become just the fifth and sixth coaches in the last 40 years to be given such a long leash.

Full story (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/05/how-good-is-peyton-manning-texans-and-jaguars-provide-a-clue/)

Interesting theory.

I think our problems are deeper than that, but I think this hypothesis has some merit.

Ole Miss Texan
01-05-2011, 02:25 PM
Interesting theory.

I think our problems are deeper than that, but I think this hypothesis has some merit.

Totally agree. Our problems run much deeper than this... but it does have some merit. Peyton Manning (along with Tom Brady) is one of the greatest QBs of all time. The fact of the matter though is every team is striving to be "the best" so you can't use who you're playing as an excuse: it just means you're not there yet. Maybe not even close.

Mr teX
01-05-2011, 02:33 PM
Interesting theory.

I think our problems are deeper than that, but I think this hypothesis has some merit.

Its one of the things that we as fans overlook when we talk about why our team stinks & fail to make the playoffs year after year. Yeah, we've DEFINITELY got our own problems, but manning isn't making it much easier for us.

I was talking to a guy i know a while back who's dad is a jets fan & his dad said that our division reminds him ALOT of the old AFC east back in the late 70's, early 80's when marino & the dolphins had that division on lock. He said, like us texans fans he used to cringe as he watched marino shred up his jets defense every time they played & everyone in the division knew that you 1st had to conquer the dolphins in your own division before you even thought about making playoffs let alone a superbowl.

disaacks3
01-05-2011, 02:36 PM
Peyton Manning broke the league record for completions Well, when you take away his running game, there's not much left BUT to pass.

He's a 1st ballot hall of famer, but the Colts aren't indestructible. You just need to keep the ball out of Peyton's hands as much as possible.

wagonhed
01-05-2011, 02:38 PM
I don't buy it. Schaub's numbers have been on par with Manning's the last 2 years. I'm not saying he is as good, but still.

The problem isn't Manning, it's that the Colts are a good organization and the Texans are a ****ty organization.

You don't see the Ravens complaining about how they can't make the playoffs because of the Steelers. Or the Jets because of the Patriots. Or the Bears because of the Packers. Etc, etc.

Manning and the Colts was 1 of our losses this year, 2 last. But the Jags were 1 this year and 2 last as well. But we don't see anyone blaming David Garrard for our inability to be a competent organization that regularly contends for the division.

MojoX
01-05-2011, 02:49 PM
Manning is 2 games a year. Still leaves 14 others to be won.

nero THE zero
01-05-2011, 02:55 PM
I guess it's plausible. McNair did talk about how the Texans won some games that no one thought they could. The Indy game would be the only one that qualifies in that regard.

I'm going with McNair is incompetent and naive, though.

Thorn
01-05-2011, 03:01 PM
I don't buy it. Schaub's numbers have been on par with Manning's the last 2 years. I'm not saying he is as good, but still.

The problem isn't Manning, it's that the Colts are a good organization and the Texans are a ****ty organization.

You don't see the Ravens complaining about how they can't make the playoffs because of the Steelers. Or the Jets because of the Patriots. Or the Bears because of the Packers. Etc, etc.

Manning and the Colts was 1 of our losses this year, 2 last. But the Jags were 1 this year and 2 last as well. But we don't see anyone blaming David Garrard for our inability to be a competent organization that regularly contends for the division.

yeah, I don't really buy it either. Every team has some sort of cross to bear, for the Texans it's themselves first, and all the other excuses afterwards.

dc_txtech
01-05-2011, 03:04 PM
I found this comment entertaining

If I had as much time as Peyton Manning has in the pocket, I could throw alot of TD's too. It's the OL that makes him good. I'd like to see how good he is with a mediocre OL.

Right, it's the Oline that makes Peyton great. Has nothing to do with the fact that he gets back in his drop and gets rid of the ball faster than anybody in the league. Or the fact that those passes come out with pinpoint precision and a ton of velocity.

Ole Miss Texan
01-05-2011, 03:04 PM
Manning is 2 games a year. Still leaves 14 others to be won.

The thing is though, Manning singlehandedly carries the Colts. There's no doubt that franchise is very well run and very efficient... but Manning puts that team on his back and is required to win games for them, all 16 of them. This season is a perfect example of how much Indy struggled and Peyton still pulls out 10 wins and the division outright.

No doubt we have to win our games and that's not something we've done. But against Peyton we're virtually trying to get that Wild Card slot.

Look at Indy's division record since 2002 and just think that Manning has 12 other games to add wins on here and there:

2010: 4-2 (10 total wins)
2009: 6-0 (14 total wins)
2008: 4-2 (12 total wins)
2007: 5-1 (13 total wins)
2006: 3-3 (12 total wins)
2005: 6-0 (14 total wins)
2004: 5-1 (12 total wins)
2003: 5-1 (12 total wins)
2002: 4-2 (10 total wins)

infantrycak
01-05-2011, 03:05 PM
You don't see the Ravens complaining about how they can't make the playoffs because of the Steelers. Or the Jets because of the Patriots. Or the Bears because of the Packers. Etc, etc.

I'm not buying it either (yes being in a division with one of the greatest QB's ever makes things harder but oh well) but this wasn't written by a Texans or Jaguars fan so complaining isn't an issue.

Ole Miss Texan
01-05-2011, 03:07 PM
I found this comment entertaining



Right, it's the Oline that makes Peyton great. Has nothing to do with the fact that he gets back in his drop and gets rid of the ball faster than anybody in the league. Or the fact that those passes come out with pinpoint precision and a ton of velocity.

LOL, exactly. He gets rid of the ball so fast. Peyton actually gets pressured all the time, he's just good at getting the ball out fast and moving in the pocket.

It reminds me of Matt Schaub getting on the Texans and we witnessed the number of Sacks decrease significantly. It wasn't totally on the OL doing a better job blocking but Schaub being able to get rid of the ball.

dc_txtech
01-05-2011, 03:16 PM
LOL, exactly. He gets rid of the ball so fast. Peyton actually gets pressured all the time, he's just good at getting the ball out fast and moving in the pocket.

It reminds me of Matt Schaub getting on the Texans and we witnessed the number of Sacks decrease significantly. It wasn't totally on the OL doing a better job blocking but Schaub being able to get rid of the ball.

Absolutely. That is the exact example I was thinking of while typing my last post. We were lambasted as having the worst OL in the history of the NFL when the majority of the problem was with HWSNBM.

Mr teX
01-05-2011, 03:18 PM
I buy it a little simply b/c it limits your options. For the most part, As long as a qb of manning's caliber is in the division you know there's only gonna be 1 way to make the playoffs for the most part...the wildcard & that in & of itself is a lottery simply b/c you don't know what teams in front of you are gonna do; rest starters or play through.