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View Full Version : Mario Williams: bleh... I'm tiring of him


dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 01:48 PM
When asked about Wade Phillips possibly being the new DC for the Texans, this was his response... and, I'm not happy about it:

http://www.texansbullblog.com/mario-killing/news/

ThaShark316
01-04-2011, 01:50 PM
He's just a bit concerned...calm down man....however, I get your point. But, I can't fault him for that.

BullNation4Life
01-04-2011, 01:55 PM
When asked about Wade Phillips possibly being the new DC for the Texans, this was his response... and, I'm not happy about it:

http://www.texansbullblog.com/mario-killing/news/

Still on the "I hate Mario" march huh? reaching for straws, bro, reaching for straws...

CloakNNNdagger
01-04-2011, 01:57 PM
When asked about Wade Phillips possibly being the new DC for the Texans, this was his response... and, I'm not happy about it:

http://www.texansbullblog.com/mario-killing/news/

I think that Mario may have good reason to be concerned about a 3-4. He has had decent sack numbers over the years. But he is not the "dominant" DE that we were hoping for him to be. He has virtually NEVER tended to "take over" a game in the 4-3. In a 3-4, the DE is not necessarily going to get that many sacks because the DE is more supposed to act as a work horse to "tie up" the OL and allow for the LBs to get in there to consumate the sacks. Mario may feel that she should be more of the "show horse" than the "work horse."

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 01:57 PM
He's just a bit concerned...calm down man....however, I get your point. But, I can't fault him for that.

I was thrilled when we drafted him. I was very supportive of him as a rookie and through 2008. I doubt that I criticized him once last season. I know he was trying to play through a hernia this season, but, as I watched the season (not being informed of his injury), I really struggled with what appeared to be a lack of effort. Perhaps it was due to his injury. Perhaps 2009's mediocrity was due to his shoulder injury and his 2006 season was a result of his foot injury.

Still, though, come on! After 4 years of awful defense and one average season as a defensive unit in 2009, how can a true competitor be worried about how a major coaching upgrade will affect his personal statistics (it shouldn't, at the least, be his primary consideration).

TexansFanatic
01-04-2011, 01:58 PM
Some people are averse to change. I'm not terribly worked up about this.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 01:59 PM
Still on the "I hate Mario" march huh? reaching for straws, bro, reaching for straws...

Find the word "hate" (or a synonym) on anything I have ever written regarding Mario Williams. You won't!

wagonhed
01-04-2011, 01:59 PM
Like the poster above me, I can see you're still making a habit of hating on Mario. edit: BullNation4Life I mean

In this case, he has a pretty good reason to be concerned. He is a 4-3 DE and that's about all there is to it. Moving him to 3-4 DE or OLB is a huge change and one that might never work out. Of all the people on the defense that are worth a shit, he is the one that should be worried most.

Señor Stan
01-04-2011, 02:00 PM
Can't blame Mario for being ....wait for it....Wary.

Thank you, thank you...I'll be here all week. Be sure and tip your waitress.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 02:02 PM
Like the poster above me, I can see you're still making a habit of hating on Mario. edit: BullNation4Life I mean

In this case, he has a pretty good reason to be concerned. He is a 4-3 DE and that's about all there is to it. Moving him to 3-4 DE or OLB is a huge change and one that might never work out. Of all the people on the defense that are worth a shit, he is the one that should be worried most.

Did you read the story? I laid out Bruce Smith's accomplishments under the same system- past his prime. He was with Wade Smith from age 32-36. All four seasons, playing in Wade's 3-4 defense as RDE, he never had less than 10 sacks. Oh, and Bruce Smith was about 20 lbs lighter than Mario and a much better speed rusher. If anyone should've been concerned about such a switch, it would be someone with an edge rush. Mario does not have one. He's a bull-rusher that "can't handle" being moved inside (at least that is what the Texans coaches decided in late 2006). Now, Antonio moves all over the line (though he weighs less than Mario) and Mario only plays on the edge.

badboy
01-04-2011, 02:03 PM
I like Mario but have thoughts he might not be very productive in 3-4. I'll get clobbered for this but we need to look at trades for him and Cushing. I am also uneasy about Cush in coverage but maybe with 4 LBs he will not be called on that much. How does Barwin (if healthy) project in 3-4?

BullNation4Life
01-04-2011, 02:05 PM
Find the word "hate" (or a synonym) on anything I have ever written regarding Mario Williams. You won't!

Sure about that? and I quote...

"There were another half dozen or more plays we could have added that would’ve shown the same lack of interest and intensity from Mario. The best hope I have is that he’s INJURED. Otherwise, I have to hate the guy!":kubepalm:

here is the like to your own blog...

http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/

like I said, still on the "I hate Mario" march...March on young soldier, march on...

Allstar
01-04-2011, 02:05 PM
How does Barwin (if healthy) project in 3-4?

I'm fairly certain that Barwin would move to OLB.

Texanmike02
01-04-2011, 02:08 PM
Me thinks the lady (in this case the poster) doth protest too much.

Mike

TD
01-04-2011, 02:12 PM
Isn't 2011 the last year of his contract? I don't blame him for not wanting a change. At least we know he'll be working his ass off.

infantrycak
01-04-2011, 02:16 PM
Isn't 2011 the last year of his contract? I don't blame him for not wanting a change. At least we know he'll be working his ass off.

Yes it is.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 02:17 PM
:rolleyes:

I think anyone who's played football before would understand what Mario's thinking. I don't know if you've played or not, but I know I'd be worried when I played in a 4-3 for so many years and was going to be forced to play inside.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 02:18 PM
I'm fairly certain that Barwin would move to OLB.

I think he'd be a good one too. That is, if he's able to return to full health and is confident in his leg.

TheCD
01-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Mario may feel that she should be more of the "show horse" than the "work horse."

The Mario Motivation Thread is that way --> :kitten:

I like Mario but have thoughts he might not be very productive in 3-4. I'll get clobbered for this but we need to look at trades for him and Cushing. I am also uneasy about Cush in coverage but maybe with 4 LBs he will not be called on that much. How does Barwin (if healthy) project in 3-4?

Mario, if there's one thing he tends to do exceptionally, is a great run-stopper. That spells success for a 3-4 DE. As far as statistics go he might not have awesome numbers, but I have no doubt he would be successful were there a great pass rusher behind him, also.

Blake
01-04-2011, 02:25 PM
Meh. The grass is always greener on the other side isnt it?

IDEXAN
01-04-2011, 02:29 PM
I've seen comments from DeMeco, Cushing, & Antonio Smith about going 3-4 and unanimously their sentiemnts were (I'm paraphrasing here of course) like, "whatever, I don't really care what scheme we use as long as we win".
I'm not too surprised by Marios response, because he's often kinda annoyed with questions and just acts put upon when people want to know things about the Texans. I think basically that while immensly gifted athletically, he's inconsistant at best and at worst, well just an underperformer who's overrated.
I would demand atleast a first (top half/16) and a third for him, but I'd accept that for him. I just think he and the Texans would be better off with a change of scenery from each other.

BigBull17
01-04-2011, 02:35 PM
It amazes me how many people absolutely hate Mario. The man had 8 sacks with a freakin sports hernia. He's been the only constant threat on a defense with little to no creativity. I want to see him in a 34. He can play end and OLB and I think will be a beast in one. Just because he is concerned about changing positions doesn't mean he wont bust his ass to be successful in it. But, who knows, maybe we can trade him for VY...People are in such a hurry to see him gone, but he has done whatever he can to hold the crap we have called a defense together for a while now.

Texan_Bill
01-04-2011, 02:39 PM
It amazes me how many people absolutely hate Mario. The man had 8 sacks with a freakin sports hernia. He's been the only constant threat on a defense with little to no creativity. I want to see him in a 34. He can play end and OLB and I think will be a beast in one. Just because he is concerned about changing positions doesn't mean he wont bust his ass to be successful in it. But, who knows, maybe we can trade him for VY...People are in such a hurry to see him gone, but he has done whatever he can to hold the crap we have called a defense together for a while now.

http://gabrielhummel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/haters-gonna-hate.gif


That said, he needs to be healthy this next coming season because this is now two seasons in a row where his health has been issue, hindering his play.

ReliantTexan
01-04-2011, 02:41 PM
Antonio wasn't exactly thrilled with the idea either.

“I don’t see Mario two-gapping, I don’t see me two-gapping. I’ve lost a lot of weight, I’m 272 pounds.”

http://www.houstondiehards.com/?p=10298

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 02:50 PM
http://gabrielhummel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/haters-gonna-hate.gif


That said, he needs to be healthy this next coming season because this is now two seasons in a row where his health has been issue, hindering his play.

Yao Ming? Doh! Sorry, I will Neg Rep myself now

Texan_Bill
01-04-2011, 02:52 PM
Yao Ming? Doh! Sorry, I will Neg Rep myself now


Punch yourself in the junk while you're at it. :peek:

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 02:57 PM
Sure about that? and I quote...

"There were another half dozen or more plays we could have added that would’ve shown the same lack of interest and intensity from Mario. The best hope I have is that he’s INJURED. Otherwise, I have to hate the guy!":kubepalm:

here is the like to your own blog...

http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/

like I said, still on the "I hate Mario" march...March on young soldier, march on...


you technically win.. I did use the word hate. However, as the article states, he was injured, as I had allowed the possibility for. And, I was relieved to officially find out that he wasn't just dogging it.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 03:00 PM
Punch yourself in the junk while you're at it. :peek:

*sigh* Oh, okay

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 03:01 PM
It amazes me how many people absolutely hate Mario. The man had 8 sacks with a freakin sports hernia. He's been the only constant threat on a defense with little to no creativity. I want to see him in a 34. He can play end and OLB and I think will be a beast in one. Just because he is concerned about changing positions doesn't mean he wont bust his ass to be successful in it. But, who knows, maybe we can trade him for VY...People are in such a hurry to see him gone, but he has done whatever he can to hold the crap we have called a defense together for a while now.

I'm a Texan fan. I have nothing to do with the Longhorns or Vince Young. As I said, I was thrilled with the Mario pick.

Read what Demeco said about changing defenses and compare it to Mario. Mario's quote is self-serving and concerned with his personal statistics. Demeco's quote shows his concern is the team and a better defensive product on the field. As I said in the article, it would seem to me that a player (like Mario and Demeco) that has been on horrible defenses in 4 of their five years in the NFL, would be primarily concerned with getting better as a defense, and not with the possible inconvenience of a shift of 24 inches to the left of the defensive line.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 03:13 PM
I'm a Texan fan. I have nothing to do with the Longhorns or Vince Young. As I said, I was thrilled with the Mario pick.

Read what Demeco said about changing defenses and compare it to Mario. Mario's quote is self-serving and concerned with his personal statistics. Demeco's quote shows his concern is the team and a better defensive product on the field. As I said in the article, it would seem to me that a player (like Mario and Demeco) that has been on horrible defenses in 4 of their five years in the NFL, would be primarily concerned with getting better as a defense, and not with the possible inconvenience of a shift of 24 inches to the left of the defensive line.

The bolded tells me all I need to know. Thanks lol

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 03:21 PM
The bolded tells me all I need to know. Thanks lol

Is lining up over the tackle going to take away Mario's outside spin move or his quick-twitch speed rush? Granted, he won't have the good fortune of the occasional play where the offense attempts to pass block the DE with a TE (usually on play action). Otherwise, what is the problem with cutting Mario loose in one gap principles but not lining him up on the tackle's outside shoulder?

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 03:22 PM
I get why he is concerned. It isn't as easy as people think to just tell him to be a D. Ware type standup end and go. In fact I'd imagine he will be forced inside with more traffic. I'm still not sure how switching to a 3-4 and hiring a new coach aren't semi-similar in Bob's head of setting a team back. All systems take adjustment. To me is it another built in excuse...."Well yeah they went 5-11 but the defense was learning a completely new defense."

silvrhand
01-04-2011, 03:24 PM
When asked about Wade Phillips possibly being the new DC for the Texans, this was his response... and, I'm not happy about it:

http://www.texansbullblog.com/mario-killing/news/

meh just let it go, you need a break man. step away from the keyboard and get those frustrations out.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 03:26 PM
I get why he is concerned. It isn't as easy as people think to just tell him to be a D. Ware type standup end and go. In fact I'd imagine he will be forced inside with more traffic. I'm still not sure how switching to a 3-4 and hiring a new coach aren't semi-similar in Bob's head of setting a team back. All systems take adjustment. To me is it another built in excuse...."Well yeah they went 5-11 but the defense was learning a completely new defense."

He would be forced inside, lining up in gap between the guard and tackle or directly over the tackle, in most cases. However, Mario is not a speed rusher. He should know that by now. Also, having a pure speed rusher with a great motor (Connor Barwin on his outside shoulder) will give Mario ample opportunities to get the the QB. But, so what? If he's a team guy, he should recognize a change is needed and be quick to embrace it, not quick to worry about how it may affect his stats.

houstonspartan
01-04-2011, 03:27 PM
meh just let it go, you need a break man. step away from the keyboard and get those frustrations out.

Lol. Exactly. He's got his coach back. He should be happy.

Second Honeymoon
01-04-2011, 03:34 PM
Dalemurphy hit it on the head
Mario hasn't earned the tight to say anything
His less than spectacular play has helped lead this overrated group to nowhere. DC #3 incoming

Blah blah blah is right

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 03:34 PM
Lol. Exactly. He's got his coach back. He should be happy.

I am happy about that! (http://www.texansbullblog.com/confess-happy-kubiak-fired/featured-articles/)

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 03:35 PM
Dalemurphy hit it on the head
Mario hasn't earned the tight to say anything
His less than spectacular play has helped lead this overrated group to nowhere. DC #3 incoming

Blah blah blah is right

Holy crap, SH, this is a special moment, huh. How should we celebrate this? It may not happen again for awhile (you and I being in agreement with one another... perhaps you shouldn't read my article about how happy I am that Kubiak didn't get fired- at least not for a couple days)

Dutchrudder
01-04-2011, 03:40 PM
I am happy about that! (http://www.texansbullblog.com/confess-happy-kubiak-fired/featured-articles/)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/415625308_552beeb5c8_z.jpg

The1ApplePie
01-04-2011, 03:42 PM
I'm a Reggie fan and I don't hate the guy.

Going into a contract year, it's natural for a guy to want to put up good stats.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 03:45 PM
While we are discussing Mario and his ability to adapt to DE in a 3-4, I ran accross a very interesting article on Battle Red Blog arguing that he would likley play and succeed as an OLB. Not only that, but the article argues quite well that our current personnel would fit quite well with they system and with Mario at LB... not sure if I agree, but it is a convincing argument:

Battle Red Blog (http://www.battleredblog.com/2011/1/4/1913068/thats-so-crazy-it-just-might-work-examining-wade-phillips-3-4-scheme)

BigBull17
01-04-2011, 03:57 PM
I'm a Texan fan. I have nothing to do with the Longhorns or Vince Young. As I said, I was thrilled with the Mario pick.

Read what Demeco said about changing defenses and compare it to Mario. Mario's quote is self-serving and concerned with his personal statistics. Demeco's quote shows his concern is the team and a better defensive product on the field. As I said in the article, it would seem to me that a player (like Mario and Demeco) that has been on horrible defenses in 4 of their five years in the NFL, would be primarily concerned with getting better as a defense, and not with the possible inconvenience of a shift of 24 inches to the left of the defensive line.

But Demeco isn't changing the way his whole damn position is played, Mario is.

The Mario Motivation Thread is that way --> :kitten:



Mario, if there's one thing he tends to do exceptionally, is a great run-stopper. That spells success for a 3-4 DE. As far as statistics go he might not have awesome numbers, but I have no doubt he would be successful were there a great pass rusher behind him, also.

He would be a great run stuffer at the position, and a way better pass rusher than the fat boys who normally play there.

Señor Stan
01-04-2011, 04:08 PM
Do 3-4 Defensive ends drop back in pass coverage? If not, the sign me up.

Hagar
01-04-2011, 04:18 PM
Eh, who cares what Mario says; he's not a particularly good football player. There's always a reason why he isn't good that year. Kinda like Amobi Akoye, theres always an excuse.

Comparing Mario to Bruce Smith is like comparing an Edsal to a Farrari. Bruce Smith is a Hall of Fame Football Player, while the only way Mario is getting into the HOF is with a ticket.

What baffles me even more is why in the world would we keep the DL coach? What has he done that is so good compared to the rest of the staff?

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 04:20 PM
But Demeco isn't changing the way his whole damn position is played, Mario is.

He would be a great run stuffer at the position, and a way better pass rusher than the fat boys who normally play there.

I remember when the Ravens first transitioned to a 3-4. One of the greatest MLB in the history of the NFL complained constantly about it: Ray Lewis. His performance suffered some that season and he consistently blamed it on the scheme change.

It is the selfishness embedded in the idea that he'd rather continue to play for a horrid defense than make some changes/sacrifices with the hopes of the team getting better.... It's not that I don't understand why he's concerned, I just don't like it.

BullNation4Life
01-04-2011, 04:20 PM
IMO, I think Mario and Smith's concerns are that generally a 3-4 DE is big, around 285-300+, Richard Seymore type players. They also get double teamed quite often, in fact, that is their job, to take on as many blockers as possible so the LBs can make the plays. They are space eaters. I believe this was one of the reason's Smith left Arizona in the first place, because they were switching or had switched to a 3-4 when he is a 4-3 DE.

I can understand their concern, I think it is putting the cart before the horse though. I also think both would be successful in a 3-4. I could also see Mario standing up and rushing the passer. I remember during his 14 sack season saying he liked being in a 2 pt stance because he could see everything better and could locate the ball better. Now maybe Mario's concern is because they want to move him to DE but I think he would have no problems if he played OLB.

just thinking outside the box a little....

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 04:22 PM
Eh, who cares what Mario says; he's not a particularly good football player. There's always a reason why he isn't good that year. Kinda like Amobi Akoye, theres always an excuse.

Comparing Mario to Bruce Smith is like comparing an Edsal to a Farrari. Bruce Smith is a Hall of Fame Football Player, while the only way Mario is getting into the HOF is with a ticket.

What baffles me even more is why in the world would we keep the DL coach? What has he done that is so good compared to the rest of the staff?

Well, if the Wade deal is already in place, perhaps Wade requested he stay (they were on staff together in Atlanta). Regarding his resume with the Texans, all I can say is that the defensive front has played better under Kollar than it did before he arrived (with the exception of Mario, that is)

Mr. White
01-04-2011, 04:23 PM
Do 3-4 Defensive ends drop back in pass coverage? If not, the sign me up.

I've seen Richard Smith drop Mario back in pass coverage. Don't know if Bush did it.

That in itself should get a DC fired.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 04:24 PM
IMO, I think Mario and Smith's concerns are that generally a 3-4 DE is big, around 285-300+, Richard Seymore type players. They also get double teamed quite often, in fact, that is their job, to take on as many blockers as possible so the LBs can make the plays. I believe this was one of the reason's Smith left Arizona in the first place, because they were switching or had switched to a 3-4 when he is a 4-3 DE.

I can understand their concern, I think it is putting the cart before the horse though. I also think both would be successful in a 3-4. I could also see Mario standing up and rushing the passer. I remember during his 14 sack season saying he liked being in a 2 pt stance because he could see everything better and could locate the ball better. Now maybe Mario's concern is because they want to move him to DE but I think he would have no problems if he played OLB.

just thinking outside the box a little....


I have been working under the assumption that Mario would definitely transition to RDE in a 3-4... However, the Battle Red article linked at the top of the page, argues that he would be best as OLB. It's a wonderful article describing the nuances of the 3-4, of Wade's version of it, and an interesting look at what our personnel would look like (in the author's opinion) under Wade.

Dutchrudder
01-04-2011, 04:25 PM
I've seen Richard Smith drop Mario back in pass coverage. Don't know if Bush did it.

That in itself should get a DC fired.

Yes he did this year. I can't remember which game (Baltimore maybe?), but the announcers were reviewing the play and they circled Mario dropping back and were flabbergasted that the D would call for him to drop into coverage. For some reason I have a slight memory of Jon Gruden's voice discussing this...

wagonhed
01-04-2011, 04:26 PM
Speaking of 3-4 DEs, to say nothing of Mario and Antonio, it seems we already have 3-4 ends in Okoye and Mitchell. They certainly aren't 4-3 tackles, and they DEFINITELY aren't 3-4 tackles, but they are the perfect size to play 3-4 end.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 04:28 PM
I've seen Richard Smith drop Mario back in pass coverage. Don't know if Bush did it.

That in itself should get a DC fired.

Mario, during the first 6 weeks of the season, dropped back into coverage a number of times in zone blitzes. That scheme was very successful for the Texans on 3rd downs until he wore down after the bye week. It is not a bad idea to drop your best pass rusher into coverage on zone blitzes. It is a very effective strategy: check out James' Harrison's play against Arizona in the Superbowl, right before halftime (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEIyUBf0X8E)

BullNation4Life
01-04-2011, 04:30 PM
I have been working under the assumption that Mario would definitely transition to RDE in a 3-4... However, the Battle Red article linked at the top of the page, argues that he would be best as OLB. It's a wonderful article describing the nuances of the 3-4, of Wade's version of it, and an interesting look at what our personnel would look like (in the author's opinion) under Wade.

and I agree, I think Mario would make a better OLB in a 3-4 than a DE. Looking at other 3-4 teams DEs they are 290, 295, 310, 315 lbs. Mario is quick enough to play that position, now on certain passing situations, man on man, you may not want Mario trying to cover a TE, ok move him down and let Barwin or Cushing cover.

I just remember Mario stating he liked being in a 2pt stance and rushing the QB, which is exactly what an OLB in a 3-4 does. Guess we will have to wait and see...

BullNation4Life
01-04-2011, 04:31 PM
Mario, during the first 6 weeks of the season, dropped back into coverage a number of times in zone blitzes. That scheme was very successful for the Texans on 3rd downs until he wore down after the bye week. It is not a bad idea to drop your best pass rusher into coverage on zone blitzes. It is a very effective strategy: check out James' Harrison's play against Arizona in the Superbowl, right before halftime (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEIyUBf0X8E)

Hell go check out Jason Taylor and see how many INTs he had as a DE/OLB in a 3-4. I could see Mario doing that...

Mike Kerns
01-04-2011, 04:48 PM
Something I'm curious about...

I write for two Texans sites (Battle Red Blog & Texans Tribune) and do a weekly podcast show (Luv Ya Steel Blue), but I've never linked to them here because I thought that self-plugging would likely be frowned upon.

Is this not the case?

Rey
01-04-2011, 04:53 PM
I understand Mario's concern...It is a big change rushing over the guard as opposed to having a bunch of free space to rush out on the edge...

But I am cool with players not being compeltely happy or compeltely comfortable...Sometimes a little discomfort can make people play better...With more fire..

It'll be interesting to see how he responds...I think it would show his true colors...

sandman
01-04-2011, 04:58 PM
Eh, who cares what Mario says; he's not a particularly good football player. There's always a reason why he isn't good that year. Kinda like Amobi Akoye, theres always an excuse.

Comparing Mario to Bruce Smith is like comparing an Edsal to a Farrari. Bruce Smith is a Hall of Fame Football Player, while the only way Mario is getting into the HOF is with a ticket.

What baffles me even more is why in the world would we keep the DL coach? What has he done that is so good compared to the rest of the staff?

Smith had 9 more sacks over his first 5 seasons than Mario did. I'm not comparing the two, but Smith played 19 seasons to get his 200 sacks. Only twice did he get over 14 sacks in a season. He was just extremely consistent at 10-14 per year over a long period of time.

Mario's career average is 9.6 sacks a season. Smith is at 10.1 for his career. In fact, outside of Reggie White at 13.2 sacks per season, every player in the Top 10 Career Sacks are between 9.0 and 10.5 sacks per season and average 13-15 seasons in the league.

How about we give Mario a bit more time in his career before we consider him mediocre.

wagonhed
01-04-2011, 05:00 PM
Smith had 9 more sacks over his first 5 seasons than Mario did. I'm not comparing the two, but Smith played 19 seasons to get his 200 sacks. Only twice did he get over 14 sacks in a season. He was just extremely consistent at 10-14 per year over a long period of time.

Mario's career average is 9.6 sacks a season. Smith is at 10.1 for his career. In fact, outside of Reggie White at 13.2 sacks per season, every player in the Top 10 Career Sacks are between 9.0 and 10.5 sacks per season and average 13-15 seasons in the league.

How about we give Mario a bit more time in his career before we consider him mediocre.
Excellent post.

And let's not forget how good Mario is at run-stopping. Something most pass rushers in the league today don't do at all.

Playoffs
01-04-2011, 05:00 PM
Mario Williams: bleh... I'm tiring of him
Move.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 05:03 PM
Something I'm curious about...

I write for two Texans sites (Battle Red Blog & Texans Tribune) and do a weekly podcast show (Luv Ya Steel Blue), but I've never linked to them here because I thought that self-plugging would likely be frowned upon.

Is this not the case?

Frak, I've said the same thing several times. It should be frowned upon. Especially when the poster's credentials are no different, or less than everyone else posting on this MB. Maybe we all should go out and write little blogs and post links to it here on TT?

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 05:13 PM
Move.

I'm already in Austin. The 5 hour roundtrip to Houston on gameday is about all I can muster. Plus, NO WAY I'm going to live in Dallas!

datchapin
01-04-2011, 05:45 PM
Dale I don't know you personally, but you seem to blow stuff out of proportion when it fits your agenda. First it was a whole article on how he doesn't put in "enough" effort, he didn't pass your eye test. Now it's that he's not embracing the new scheme like "YOU" think he should.

The dude said "if I have to do it, I have to do it, but it would be a huge change." Taken from your blog.

Tell me where in that comment do you get that he cares more about his stats than the team? Where in that comment is he bitching and moaning.

You're getting tired of him because what. He didn't say what you think he should say? Isn't that a bit much?

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 06:01 PM
Dale I don't know you personally, but you seem to blow stuff out of proportion when it fits your agenda. First it was a whole article on how he doesn't put in "enough" effort, he didn't pass your eye test. Now it's that he's not embracing the new scheme like "YOU" think he should.

The dude said "if I have to do it, I have to do it, but it would be a huge change." Taken from your blog.

Tell me where in that comment do you get that he cares more about his stats than the team? Where in that comment is he bitching and moaning.

You're getting tired of him because what. He didn't say what you think he should say? Isn't that a bit much?

You are not the first person to say that I "blow stuff out of proportion". As to an agenda, I'm just communicating my thoughts and that's it. I'm writing for a fan blog and not getting paid one cent for it- clearly, my passion for the team is a bit over the top. I can not argue with that. As a result, I tend towards strong opinions and sometimes may read more into something than is there.

That being said, this is what Demeco said when asked about the possible change in system:

"Somebody like (Phillips) would help us tremendously," Ryans said. "The new coach and possibly the new system will take some getting used to, but you have to be prepared for change in the NFL.

"It'll be a fresh start for the defense. I'll be excited to see who we bring in and what system he wants to run."

From a five year vet and team leader with a passion to win, that is what I would expect to hear.

sandman
01-04-2011, 06:09 PM
From a five year vet and team leader with a passion to win, that is what I would expect to hear.

Being from San Antonio and naturally being a Spurs fan, our team's Future HOFer, 4-Time NBA Champ and arguably best PF to play the game is most famous for one quote, regarding the NBA dress code rules:

"That's Retarded"

IMHO, we get too caught up in our expectations of how we want our millionaire superstars to react.

Mike Kerns
01-04-2011, 06:27 PM
Frak, I've said the same thing several times. It should be frowned upon. Especially when the poster's credentials are no different, or less than everyone else posting on this MB. Maybe we all should go out and write little blogs and post links to it here on TT?

I wasn't trying to be shitty or anything. I enjoy reading all the other Texans bloggers out there. Was just curious, really. I'd love to boost my own traffic on my sites by doing that, but it doesn't seem right.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Being from San Antonio and naturally being a Spurs fan, our team's Future HOFer, 4-Time NBA Champ and arguably best PF to play the game is most famous for one quote, regarding the NBA dress code rules:

"That's Retarded"

IMHO, we get too caught up in our expectations of how we want our millionaire superstars to react.

I'm not demanding that he be traded or released, it's just another example of the guy's limitations. Considering the Texan organization drafting/FA model is focused on high character, intelligent, team guys with a passion for the game... there seem to be a number of guys that aren't fitting that mold.

JB
01-04-2011, 07:00 PM
I'm not demanding that he be traded or released, it's just another example of the guy's limitations. Considering the Texan organization drafting/FA model is focused on high character, intelligent, team guys with a passion for the game... there seem to be a number of guys that aren't fitting that mold.

You keep talking about how Demeco sounded like a leader and Mario did not. Ryans is the acknowledged leader of the defense. Mario is not. Not everyone is a leader, that does not mean they are not passionate about the game. Mario has never shown himself to be (not sure of my choice of words here) an articulate speaker. I took his words as conveying a bit of uncertainty in what his role would be. It would be a change from anything he has played before if he was asked to be 34 OLB in the mold of Ware, and maybe even a bigger adjustment if he was asked to be a 34 DE.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 07:08 PM
You keep talking about how Demeco sounded like a leader and Mario did not. Ryans is the acknowledged leader of the defense. Mario is not. Not everyone is a leader, that does not mean they are not passionate about the game. Mario has never shown himself to be (not sure of my choice of words here) an articulate speaker. I took his words as conveying a bit of uncertainty in what his role would be. It would be a change from anything he has played before if he was asked to be 34 OLB in the mold of Ware, and maybe even a bigger adjustment if he was asked to be a 34 DE.

Perhaps you are right. I hope so. It appears we will find out since Bob Allen is reporting that the Phillips hire is essentially a done deal.

JB
01-04-2011, 07:12 PM
Perhaps you are right. I hope so. It appears we will find out since Bob Allen is reporting that the Phillips hire is essentially a done deal.

Hey, at least he hasn't gone ballistic like Fat Al...



but then again, he is in the last year of his rookie contract.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 07:18 PM
Hey, at least he hasn't gone ballistic like Fat Al...



but then again, he is in the last year of his rookie contract.

Hopefully he will go ballistic like Albert did in the last year of his rookie deal. That would be sweet!

JB
01-04-2011, 07:22 PM
Hopefully he will go ballistic like Albert did in the last year of his rookie deal. That would be sweet!

Yes it would! As long as he doesn't follow the same path as Albert in the following year or two...

datchapin
01-04-2011, 07:47 PM
I'm not demanding that he be traded or released, it's just another example of the guy's limitations. Considering the Texan organization drafting/FA model is focused on high character, intelligent, team guys with a passion for the game... there seem to be a number of guys that aren't fitting that mold.

Really, you mean like Okoye? Jackson? Brown? Cushing? I mean, really, Demeco is more exception than he is the rule isn't he. I wonder how many blogs have you written about our other first rounders?

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 07:56 PM
Really, you mean like Okoye? Jackson? Brown? Cushing? I mean, really, Demeco is more exception than he is the rule isn't he. I wonder how many blogs have you written about our other first rounders?

Too early to comment on Jackson. I think Brown has been a good player. Cushing certainly has been good

Okoye... yeah, there are some problems there. I have been on his case and irritated with the Texan coaches for their insistence that he play 90% of the snaps since 2008. Okoye and Okam are two examples where the Texans drafted players that aren't particularly passionate about football.... even though they claim to focus on that.

b0ng
01-04-2011, 08:05 PM
Eh, who cares what Hagar says; he's not a particularly good poster. There's always a reason why he isn't good that year. Kinda like Amobi Akoye, theres always an excuse.

Comparing Hagar to Vinny is like comparing my kids tricycle to a Formula Racer. Vinny is a Hall of Fame Pro Poster, while the only way Hagar makes a good post is if JB steals his password..


Edited but it fits.

But really, I don't think Mario is the type to Haynesworth his way off the team if he doesn't like the defensive alignment we play in currently. I think this is as much of a non-story as Bill Kollar still having a job in early January.

Lucky
01-04-2011, 08:08 PM
I'd bet that Williams and Smith would be singing a different tune to the prospects of moving to the 3-4, had Cowher been hired. Having said that, these guys have taken too much $$$ to be biatching about anything. I don't care if the defense is in a 2-5. Produce.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 08:11 PM
Edited but it fits.

But really, I don't think Mario is the type to Haynesworth his way off the team if he doesn't like the defensive alignment we play in currently. I think this is as much of a non-story as Bill Kollar still having a job in early January.

Bill Kollar having a job was a big story, though. It was a significant clue to the imminent Wade Phillips hire. The two worked together with the Falcons and it is now clear that Wade wanted him on staff so the Texans protected him.

FirstTexansFan
01-04-2011, 08:12 PM
i'd bet that williams and smith would be singing a different tune to the prospects of moving to the 3-4, had cowher been hired. Having said that, these guys have taken too much $$$ to be biatching about anything. i don't care if the defense is in a 2-5. Produce.

this! ^^^

TexansSeminole
01-04-2011, 08:16 PM
It amazes me how many people absolutely hate Mario. The man had 8 sacks with a freakin sports hernia. He's been the only constant threat on a defense with little to no creativity. I want to see him in a 34. He can play end and OLB and I think will be a beast in one. Just because he is concerned about changing positions doesn't mean he wont bust his ass to be successful in it. But, who knows, maybe we can trade him for VY...People are in such a hurry to see him gone, but he has done whatever he can to hold the crap we have called a defense together for a while now.

That's what I am saying.

:facepalm: I don't get the hate.

What I disagree with is that Mario could play OLB in a 3-4. That's just not what Mario should be doing, he is pretty average at rushing standing up and I don't want him out in coverage. Put him in the end spot and watch him disrupt a TON of plays.

Lucky
01-04-2011, 08:22 PM
The two worked together with the Falcons and it is now clear that Wade wanted him on staff so the Texans protected him.
I thought the same thing, but another poster (sorry I can't find your post and give you credit) compared the2 resumes and found that Phillips & Kollar never worked together.

b0ng
01-04-2011, 08:26 PM
Bill Kollar having a job was a big story, though. It was a significant clue to the imminent Wade Phillips hire. The two worked together with the Falcons and it is now clear that Wade wanted him on staff so the Texans protected him.

It's not really that big of a story because I don't believe he really is a gaurantee to be here in July or August. Hell the first thing that tipped almost everybody off to the Phillips hire was whatever reporter broke that, and it seemed to happen right alongside Sherman, Jackson and Calhoun being named as HC candidates.

I don't think it's very clear who Wade wants on the staff since he hasn't gotten up to the podium that has Texans logos behind it. I mean, Ray Rhodes is still technically on the defensive staff as well as Perry Carter, does that mean Wade wanted them too? I get it, this is all speculation, which is pretty much the only thing to go on right now since the front office wants to take their time in hiring Phillips, even though they went to the trouble to bring his ridiculously old dad out to one of our last practices on the season. Maybe Wade's making them wait, or whatever, but I just really don't see why Wade would want Bill Kollar and Ray Rhodes here rather than his own dudes.

But really, if I'm reading a non-message board blog post, it's gotta be something that's going to hold my interest and the 2nd go around of a Mario Williams call-out extravaganza just doesn't really do it for me. Why aren't we reading an intuitive breakdown on which defensive alignment we would fit better? Speculation on how the defensive personnel might shift due to a new coordinator coming in. If I want to read a hit piece on a Texans player I'll wait until game week and then hopefully it'll be posted by some ***** fan of another team. If that is to be the case, then I can go and break down why that particular person is an ***** for posting a hit piece on a Texans player who happens to be a decent player (Which is only about 10% of our entire roster).

I don't know, the piece I just read from your blog seemed a little contrived and it kind of reeked of not having any good ideas on articles to write. Of course, I'm never going to like a piece that details just how one of the best players on our team is actually quite crappy!

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 08:49 PM
It's not really that big of a story because I don't believe he really is a gaurantee to be here in July or August. Hell the first thing that tipped almost everybody off to the Phillips hire was whatever reporter broke that, and it seemed to happen right alongside Sherman, Jackson and Calhoun being named as HC candidates.

I don't think it's very clear who Wade wants on the staff since he hasn't gotten up to the podium that has Texans logos behind it. I mean, Ray Rhodes is still technically on the defensive staff as well as Perry Carter, does that mean Wade wanted them too? I get it, this is all speculation, which is pretty much the only thing to go on right now since the front office wants to take their time in hiring Phillips, even though they went to the trouble to bring his ridiculously old dad out to one of our last practices on the season. Maybe Wade's making them wait, or whatever, but I just really don't see why Wade would want Bill Kollar and Ray Rhodes here rather than his own dudes.

But really, if I'm reading a non-message board blog post, it's gotta be something that's going to hold my interest and the 2nd go around of a Mario Williams call-out extravaganza just doesn't really do it for me. Why aren't we reading an intuitive breakdown on which defensive alignment we would fit better? Speculation on how the defensive personnel might shift due to a new coordinator coming in. If I want to read a hit piece on a Texans player I'll wait until game week and then hopefully it'll be posted by some ***** fan of another team. If that is to be the case, then I can go and break down why that particular person is an ***** for posting a hit piece on a Texans player who happens to be a decent player (Which is only about 10% of our entire roster).


I don't know, the piece I just read from your blog seemed a little contrived and it kind of reeked of not having any good ideas on articles to write. Of course, I'm never going to like a piece that details just how one of the best players on our team is actually quite crappy!

I don't think I was call Mario "crappy"... Regardless, though, I wrote yesterday looking at how our current personnel would look in Wade's 3-4 defense. Also, though, I linked a great article by Battle Red Blog (http://www.battleredblog.com/2011/1/4/1913068/thats-so-crazy-it-just-might-work-examining-wade-phillips-3-4-scheme) on the top of page 3 of this thread discussing why Mario will fit naturally as an OLB in a 3-4 and making an impressive argument how much sense that makes and what the rest of the starting lineup would look like. I've linked it for you again, if you're interested. Great, great article!

Battle Red also has an interesting article talking about the importance of Connor Barwin here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2011/1/4/1913903/one-reason-not-to-fear-wade-phillips)

PHAROAH
01-04-2011, 08:57 PM
Trade him for a 1st round pick and keep it moving.

MFG16
01-04-2011, 09:31 PM
I like Mario, but if we switch to a 3-4 he will either be an end or on another team. I just can't see him as an OLB, he is just to tall. Besides he played a lot standing up this year and looked terrible. Id hate to trade him, but If it came down to it and we could get a 1st round/top 10 pick for him I say pull the trigger.

looks like its going to be an interesting off-season.

Doppelganger
01-04-2011, 09:38 PM
Mario can be a great a 3-4 DE. Not only is he beastly at the line of scrimmage and set up the OLBs, he can also get into the backfield and cause havoc. The Jets Shaun Ellis is about the same size as Mario and nobody says he is not a star DE.

fiasco west
01-04-2011, 09:39 PM
I've seen comments from DeMeco, Cushing, & Antonio Smith about going 3-4 and unanimously their sentiemnts were (I'm paraphrasing here of course) like, "whatever, I don't really care what scheme we use as long as we win".
I'm not too surprised by Marios response, because he's often kinda annoyed with questions and just acts put upon when people want to know things about the Texans. I think basically that while immensly gifted athletically, he's inconsistant at best and at worst, well just an underperformer who's overrated.
I would demand atleast a first (top half/16) and a third for him, but I'd accept that for him. I just think he and the Texans would be better off with a change of scenery from each other.

Thats how he is, that's why I wouldn't make too much of it. Mario always seems annoyed by the media.

Any ways not much to worry about here. If Mario comes out and produces then he'll be happy. If Mario doesn't then oh well, he'll move on from the Texans.

It is good though that Mario isn't going the Haynesworth route as of yet. Haynesworth pretty much told the team he didn't want to play in a 3-4 and that was that. The rest is history.

Texan_Bill
01-04-2011, 09:42 PM
The bolded tells me all I need to know. Thanks lol

Yup!! Myself...


BTW dude, when I punch myself in the junk I don't typically *sigh*.... Tears and pain are generally involved. :D

dream_team
01-04-2011, 10:10 PM
This is no surprise to me. I know everyone in here that wanted a 3-4 was picturing Mario at one of the DE spots... But I've been saying for a while, if we switch to 3-4, expect Mario to be gone.

By making him a 3-4 DE, we're sort of wasting his strengths. In fact, I think Amobi would be just as good. So why keep Mario that would cost so much more to keep?

Its like taking Damarcus Ware and making him a 4-3 OLB. He'd wouldn't be rushing the passer as much anymore, thus wasting his best skill. Don't you think he'd be unhappy and want to go to a team that fits his strengths?

The same goes for putting him at OLB, wasting his strengths.

And those of you saying he was never dominant and took over a game, you may want to watch the Washington game again. I do wish he did that more often though.

dalemurphy
01-04-2011, 10:26 PM
This is no surprise to me. I know everyone in here that wanted a 3-4 was picturing Mario at one of the DE spots... But I've been saying for a while, if we switch to 3-4, expect Mario to be gone.

By making him a 3-4 DE, we're sort of wasting his strengths. In fact, I think Amobi would be just as good. So why keep Mario that would cost so much more to keep?

Its like taking Damarcus Ware and making him a 4-3 OLB. He'd wouldn't be rushing the passer as much anymore, thus wasting his best skill. Don't you think he'd be unhappy and want to go to a team that fits his strengths?

The same goes for putting him at OLB, wasting his strengths.

And those of you saying he was never dominant and took over a game, you may want to watch the Washington game again. I do wish he did that more often though.

What do you make of the statistics regarding Bruce Smith under Wade Phillips... Smith was past his prime and still had at least 10 sacks as the RDE four consecutive seasons under Wade.

dream_team
01-04-2011, 11:55 PM
What do you make of the statistics regarding Bruce Smith under Wade Phillips... Smith was past his prime and still had at least 10 sacks as the RDE four consecutive seasons under Wade.

Good question, but I can't answer that. I didn't watch those Bills teams that closely to give a correct answer.

To be honest, I'm not too familiar with Wade Phillips' 3-4. Maybe he uses the DE in a different way?

I'm more speaking out of traditional 3-4 defenses. Traditionally, a 3-4 DE is more like a DT, a big strong guy that doesn't necessarily have to be quick. They have to hold their position and make sure the OL doesn't get to the 2nd level. They take on the OT head-on and are responsible for the B&C gaps. They don't typically rush the passer or make alot of tackles.

So in that sense, I understand why Mario is concerned. His skills are more suited for a 4-3 defense. And in fact, we'd be spending way too much money
on a 3-4 DE. It would best suit the team if we traded him and put that money towards a dominant NT.

BullNation4Life
01-05-2011, 12:09 AM
I like Mario, but if we switch to a 3-4 he will either be an end or on another team. I just can't see him as an OLB, he is just to tall. Besides he played a lot standing up this year and looked terrible. Id hate to trade him, but If it came down to it and we could get a 1st round/top 10 pick for him I say pull the trigger.

looks like its going to be an interesting off-season.

Really? Too tall? I have heard some arguments about why Mario shouldn't play OLB but "too tall" has to be the lamest excuse yet. Actually he got a lot closer to the QB in a 2pt stance than he did with his hand on the ground, and that is from Mario Williams himself.

I don't recall Jason Taylor having any problem playing the OLB in the 3-4 and he is the same height as Mario. You really think Mario Williams being 2 inches taller than someone like Ware is going to effect his playing the OLB? OOOOoooookkkkay....

BullNation4Life
01-05-2011, 12:17 AM
This is no surprise to me. I know everyone in here that wanted a 3-4 was picturing Mario at one of the DE spots... But I've been saying for a while, if we switch to 3-4, expect Mario to be gone.

By making him a 3-4 DE, we're sort of wasting his strengths. In fact, I think Amobi would be just as good. So why keep Mario that would cost so much more to keep?

Its like taking Damarcus Ware and making him a 4-3 OLB. He'd wouldn't be rushing the passer as much anymore, thus wasting his best skill. Don't you think he'd be unhappy and want to go to a team that fits his strengths?

The same goes for putting him at OLB, wasting his strengths.

And those of you saying he was never dominant and took over a game, you may want to watch the Washington game again. I do wish he did that more often though.

Wait, What? How are you wasting Mario's strengths by having him in a 2pt stance doing what he does best, rushing the QB? That makes no sense at all. In fact, you would be playing to his strengths becasue Mario can locate the ball much faster in a 2pt stance rather coming up from a 3 pt stance, engaging the Tackle THEN locating the ball. Oh if Ware was in a 4-3, he would most likely be a pass rushing DE, not an OLB...

Some of yall act like Mario Williams isn't skilled enough and you couldn't be more wrong. I'm sorry but give Mario a chance to take a running start at a Tackle to rush the passer is a scary thought. Alot of his sacks during his 14 sack season were from a 2pt stance.

steelbtexan
01-05-2011, 12:18 AM
I would trade Mario's lazy self absobed self for a top ten pick in a heartbeat.

Check out my Mock in the draft section.

It's time to get rid of the (It's about me) party boys. and get some guys who put the success of the team 1st. Instead of their individual stats 1st.

If MW isn't on board with this change. Then it's time to show him the door.. I'm sure that the Texans could get great value in return for him.

BTW his contract is up after 2011. Trading him would save BoB alot of $$$$.

We all know how much BoB loves his $$$$.

BullNation4Life
01-05-2011, 12:28 AM
I would trade Mario's lazy self absobed self for a top ten pick in a heartbeat.

Ceck out my Mock in the draft section.

It's time to get rid of the (It's about me) party boys. and get some guys who put the success of the team 1st. Instead of their individual stats 1st.

If MW isn't on bord with this change. Then it's time to show him the door.. I'm sure that the Texans could get great value in return for him.

BTW his contract is up after 2011. Trading him would save BoB alot of $$$$.

We all know how much BoB loves his $$$$.

One from his coach:kubepalm:

and one from the new DC:wadepalm:

Guy plays with a sports hernia, gets 8.5 sacks in 13 games and he is lazy and self absorbed? okey dokey.....

No body, not even Mario said he wasn't on board, just had his concerns like we all do...

dalemurphy
01-05-2011, 12:31 AM
Good question, but I can't answer that. I didn't watch those Bills teams that closely to give a correct answer.

To be honest, I'm not too familiar with Wade Phillips' 3-4. Maybe he uses the DE in a different way?

I'm more speaking out of traditional 3-4 defenses. Traditionally, a 3-4 DE is more like a DT, a big strong guy that doesn't necessarily have to be quick. They have to hold their position and make sure the OL doesn't get to the 2nd level. They take on the OT head-on and are responsible for the B&C gaps. They don't typically rush the passer or make alot of tackles.So in that sense, I understand why Mario is concerned. His skills are more suited for a 4-3 defense. And in fact, we'd be spending way too much money
on a 3-4 DE. It would best suit the team if we traded him and put that money towards a dominant NT.


You are right. 3-4 defenses from the Parcells coaching tree and the Labeau tree are that way. However, Wade Phillips runs a one gap system, allowing his front 3 to attack a single gap and attempt to make plays. That is why Bruce Smith had so much success in the system.

I just did some research, looking for other guys that played DL for Wade and had high sack totals. I found some but I am not sure what to make of it. Looking at defensive statistics at www.pro-football-reference.com, guys like Chuck Smith and Lester Archambeau had some 10+ sack seasons as DEs under Wade in Atlanta. However, the player stats are laid out in a way that indicates Atlanta played a 4-3 defense during that time. It was my understanding that Wade converted the Falcons defense to a 3-4 during his time with Reeves. Interesting note: Kollar was the DL coach in Atlanta with Wade. So, either Wade is willing to play 4-3 and can do it well (Phillie and maybe? Atlanta), or the website is misleading. Either way, the larger point is that big DEs like Chuck Smith, Bruce Smith, and even Lester Archambeau had some of their best sack seasons with Wade as their DC.

steelbtexan
01-05-2011, 12:34 AM
One from his coach:kubepalm:

and one from the new DC:wadepalm:

Guy plays with a sports hernia, gets 8.5 sacks in 13 games and he is lazy and self absorbed? okey dokey.....

No body, not even Mario said he wasn't on board, just had his concerns like we all do...

If he's on board and motivated, Great he stays, If not he's gone. A motivated MW would be a great starting place for the new defense.

Hopefully the country club atmosphere in the Texans lockerroom is over.

I doubt it though.

dream_team
01-05-2011, 12:35 AM
Wait, What? How are you wasting Mario's strengths by having him in a 2pt stance doing what he does best, rushing the QB? That makes no sense at all. In fact, you would be playing to his strengths becasue Mario can locate the ball much faster in a 2pt stance rather coming up from a 3 pt stance, engaging the Tackle THEN locating the ball. Oh if Ware was in a 4-3, he would most likely be a pass rushing DE, not an OLB...

Some of yall act like Mario Williams isn't skilled enough and you couldn't be more wrong. I'm sorry but give Mario a chance to take a running start at a Tackle to rush the passer is a scary thought. Alot of his sacks during his 14 sack season were from a 2pt stance.

If a 3-4 OLB rushed the passer on every down, then I'd be ok with it. But that's not the way it is. He'll also have to drop back in coverage and man cover TEs. That's not playing to his strengths. Mario is at his best when he's rushing the passer or containing the edge on run plays.

TimeKiller
01-05-2011, 09:58 AM
Mario "beasting" in a 4-3=defense ranked 461st out of all the high schools in Idaho.

Mario playing a slightly different role in a defense under a guy that might actually know what the **** he is talking about=?

Known pile of shit < unknown

HOU-TEX
01-05-2011, 10:02 AM
Yup!! Myself...


BTW dude, when I punch myself in the junk I don't typically *sigh*.... Tears and pain are generally involved. :D

It was a pre-junk-punch sigh. You know, the kind of "oh, mother of all that's holy, this is going to be painful" type sigh.

Blake
01-05-2011, 10:35 AM
When asked about Wade Phillips possibly being the new DC for the Texans, this was his response... and, I'm not happy about it:

http://www.texansbullblog.com/mario-killing/news/

I am not worried about Mario. And I dont think he feels that he couldnt beat a guard as you suggested. But I am not interested in assumptions or drawing conclusions on his thought process. He is a 4-3 DE. Has been since he got in the NFL. Obviously he will have a few concerns about switching to a 3-4 if thats what direction we go.

Lets not spin his comments to fit your story though.

gafftop
01-05-2011, 12:43 PM
I would trade Mario's lazy self absobed self for a top ten pick in a heartbeat.

Check out my Mock in the draft section.

It's time to get rid of the (It's about me) party boys. and get some guys who put the success of the team 1st. Instead of their individual stats 1st.

If MW isn't on board with this change. Then it's time to show him the door.. I'm sure that the Texans could get great value in return for him.

BTW his contract is up after 2011. Trading him would save BoB alot of $$$$.

We all know how much BoB loves his $$$$.

I also would trade Mario in a heartbeat if I thought you could get a top 10 pick. I am afraid you would be lucky to get a 2nd round pick in which case i would have to think about it. Somebody mentioned Yao and Mario together, could Mario be the Texan's Yao. Yao is above average when not injured because of his size, not really athletic but effective. Mario is above average when not injured and when he tries because of size and strength but really not a natural football player. Mario is always hurt. I always wondered if the Texans just made up injuries for him so that we the fans would not know the FO made a mistake in drafting him. We all see how Yao has worked out for the Rockets. I see Mario working out the same for the Texans only we get nothing out of him in trade value. I think we as Texans fan over estimate the ability of our players 1 Because we are FANS
2 Because our talent level has been BAD for so long. An above average player looks like a super star because he is better than what we are used to looking at.

Getting off track. My question what do you really think we could get for Mario in a trade. I think top 10 no way, maybe a late first or second. i think Mario will get better if he is traded because 1 it may wake him up and 2 I don't think new coaches will baby him like the Texans have so far. They may also change his conditioning and actually teach him something. Rambling again. OUT

leebigeztx
01-05-2011, 12:46 PM
Mario is probably thinking about tradational 3-4 with the 2 gapping. In wade's scheme, they slant the front and 1 gap. All 7 are respond for a gap,thats it. I actually think he will be better 1 gapping in a 3-4 because the lb's outside of him can draw attention. Okoye might be the guy out of the equation even though ratliff played nose in dallas under wade.

leebigeztx
01-05-2011, 12:53 PM
You are right. 3-4 defenses from the Parcells coaching tree and the Labeau tree are that way. However, Wade Phillips runs a one gap system, allowing his front 3 to attack a single gap and attempt to make plays. That is why Bruce Smith had so much success in the system.

I just did some research, looking for other guys that played DL for Wade and had high sack totals. I found some but I am not sure what to make of it. Looking at defensive statistics at www.pro-football-reference.com, guys like Chuck Smith and Lester Archambeau had some 10+ sack seasons as DEs under Wade in Atlanta. However, the player stats are laid out in a way that indicates Atlanta played a 4-3 defense during that time. It was my understanding that Wade converted the Falcons defense to a 3-4 during his time with Reeves. Interesting note: Kollar was the DL coach in Atlanta with Wade. So, either Wade is willing to play 4-3 and can do it well (Phillie and maybe? Atlanta), or the website is misleading. Either way, the larger point is that big DEs like Chuck Smith, Bruce Smith, and even Lester Archambeau had some of their best sack seasons with Wade as their DC.

I don't know how I missed this when I posted. This post couldve saved me keystrokes. Thats what posters are missing about this whole deal. 7 gaps,7 players. Each player is responsible for a gap and that makes you play faster and make plays. I always wanted to see what mario would do playing 1 gap and okoye also. Now even if ratliff played small like okoye and he worked, I'm still not sure if okoye can be successful at ng. As u stated, only the parcell tree and pitsburgh run the 2 gap and even then, the patriots played some slant fronts when they had seymor and warren.

infantrycak
01-05-2011, 01:10 PM
Okoye might be the guy out of the equation even though ratliff played nose in dallas under wade.

I think Okoye would rotate in for both Mario and Smith at DE.

leebigeztx
01-05-2011, 01:32 PM
I think Okoye would rotate in for both Mario and Smith at DE.

I thought about that too. If i were them, my first target would be Franklin, but I'm not sure the 49ers would let him go, but my next target would be branch. Also, trading okoye for anderson would make some sense. I talked with Kirwin a few times and felt anderson was a natuarl 5 technique in a 3-4. Okoye is a natural 1 gap player. If the falcons would do a straight swap and they could have williams and anderson as ends with smith spelling both, that would be pretty good. The pressure will come with barwin,cushing, and whomever else they add.

dream_team
01-05-2011, 05:22 PM
You are right. 3-4 defenses from the Parcells coaching tree and the Labeau tree are that way. However, Wade Phillips runs a one gap system, allowing his front 3 to attack a single gap and attempt to make plays. That is why Bruce Smith had so much success in the system.

I just did some research, looking for other guys that played DL for Wade and had high sack totals. I found some but I am not sure what to make of it. Looking at defensive statistics at www.pro-football-reference.com, guys like Chuck Smith and Lester Archambeau had some 10+ sack seasons as DEs under Wade in Atlanta. However, the player stats are laid out in a way that indicates Atlanta played a 4-3 defense during that time. It was my understanding that Wade converted the Falcons defense to a 3-4 during his time with Reeves. Interesting note: Kollar was the DL coach in Atlanta with Wade. So, either Wade is willing to play 4-3 and can do it well (Phillie and maybe? Atlanta), or the website is misleading. Either way, the larger point is that big DEs like Chuck Smith, Bruce Smith, and even Lester Archambeau had some of their best sack seasons with Wade as their DC.

Ah! Thanks for the info. You're getting me kind of excited now. If we can now somehow draft the next Damarcus Ware, or if Barwin can be that guy, then this defense could do a 180 fast!

Rey
01-05-2011, 06:05 PM
I'd start Mario right in the middle of the line at Nose. It's about one of the most sought after positions in the 3-4. It's not really a glamour position, but it kind of is. Good nose tackles in the 3-4 are very popular....

I think he'd be very good there...I think that he could effectively handle double teams...He has the strength to do it....He has the athleticism to shed blocks and come off to make tackles...

He's also be an above average pass rusher from that position...I think he'd definitely be able to keep QB's from stepping up into the pocket to make throws...

It'd also allow Amobi and Smith to start at the ends with Smith and whoever else to rotate in...Earl Mitchell and such...

Now I'd still go out and get a true NT...A big fat guy....Or probably more than one...

Like I said, I'd start Mario at NT, but I'd move him around during games...Keep him engaged in whats going on....
--------------------------------------------------------------------

But on another note, I've always been a bigger fan of the 3-4 than the 4-3...I've always liked the idea of having more athletes on the field and removing one of the bigger guys...I just think the 3-4 makes the defense more versatile and you can get more pressure in passing situations...

If you can successfully stop the run with it, then you can really give teams hell...

DexmanC
01-05-2011, 07:29 PM
I'd start Mario right in the middle of the line at Nose. It's about one of the most sought after positions in the 3-4. It's not really a glamour position, but it kind of is. Good nose tackles in the 3-4 are very popular....

I think he'd be very good there...I think that he could effectively handle double teams...He has the strength to do it....He has the athleticism to shed blocks and come off to make tackles...

He's also be an above average pass rusher from that position...I think he'd definitely be able to keep QB's from stepping up into the pocket to make throws...

It'd also allow Amobi and Smith to start at the ends with Smith and whoever else to rotate in...Earl Mitchell and such...

Now I'd still go out and get a true NT...A big fat guy....Or probably more than one...

Like I said, I'd start Mario at NT, but I'd move him around during games...Keep him engaged in whats going on....
--------------------------------------------------------------------

But on another note, I've always been a bigger fan of the 3-4 than the 4-3...I've always liked the idea of having more athletes on the field and removing one of the bigger guys...I just think the 3-4 makes the defense more versatile and you can get more pressure in passing situations...

If you can successfully stop the run with it, then you can really give teams hell...

I agree Mario definitely has the strength to do it, I just think his 6'7" frame
leaves him at a tremendous leverage disadvantage. Can Mario get low
enough to be an effective nose? I doubt it. Does he have the
attention span to become "great?" Don't know. This will be the
first year he's truly had a great coach to push him.

We'll see.

infantrycak
01-05-2011, 07:32 PM
Rey, love your thinking outside the box but Mario is no NT in a 3-4. Maybe as a trick substitution sometime but not as a regular player.

Rey
01-05-2011, 08:27 PM
I agree Mario definitely has the strength to do it, I just think his 6'7" frame
leaves him at a tremendous leverage disadvantage. Can Mario get low
enough to be an effective nose? I doubt it. Does he have the
attention span to become "great?" Don't know. This will be the
first year he's truly had a great coach to push him.

We'll see.



Rey, love your thinking outside the box but Mario is no NT in a 3-4. Maybe as a trick substitution sometime but not as a regular player.

Yeah...probably so....

I think regardless of what they do, we are going to have to acquire at least one more fat body...

The Lewis guy looks pretty big (and he played o.k this past year)....this may be a good defense for him....