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HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 09:01 AM
Man I'm angry. I thought I'd be angry that Kubiak was back..I am. But the venom in me(not healthy) is mostly for McNair. His comments fly in the face of reason and it makes me think that he is just surrounded by people who will tell him anything and that he really has no business making football decisions.

So I keep reading about Cowher and now Harbaugh and some of the other coaches out there. Did Bob do his due diligence and contact anyone? The way he makes it sound is he was never going to pull the trigger because there are so many unlucky things that happened to his nice fellas. Just like the year before.

Harbaugh runs a top offense. He works with a top QB. SF has nothing to offer and is in the running. ESPN Insider said Carolina is a dark horse with the top pick and Luck maybe coming there. Miami and Denver too. You don't think he would see a Schaub and weapons and even think a little about coming here? What about Cowher. No one is even sure if his Top 3 choices was legit but don't you have to make that call?

If a guy isn't doing his due diligence then he is cheating his franchise. I really don't think it occurred to him to call anyone or consult anyone. That angers and disappoints me and makes me realize that common sense will never get through to a guy like Bob. Everything is too black and white to him. "Defense Bad, so that is where I will fix."(caveman). He ignores the details of football...not business.

HTown2ATX
01-04-2011, 09:10 AM
You're not a real fan durp-durp....

http://southparkstudios-intl.mtvnimages.com/shared/sps/img/content/characters/134a.jpg?width=320

Corrosion
01-04-2011, 09:32 AM
Bob is a business man , not a football guy.


I said it several times before that I could see why he would come to the conclusions he has based on the metrics involved - mainly the offensive stats.

Much like in business he's looking at statistics when making his decisions .... right wrong or indfferent.

Mclaim pretty much echoed my statements (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1627048&postcount=204) in multiple posts from a week or more ago in yesterdays article.


As fans its easy to make these decisions and question those he does make .... but its his $700million dollar toy.
There are lots of decisions we as fans are not privy to the answers to , he is.

He has to make those decisions based upon the information he believes to be the best guage - Looks to me like he believes that guage to be statistical data. Even if that data is taken out of context.

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 09:39 AM
Bob is a business man , not a football guy.


I said it several times before that I could see why he would come to the conclusions he has based on the metrics involved - mainly the offensive stats.

Much like in business he's looking at statistics when making his decisions .... right wrong or indfferent.

Mclaim pretty much echoed my statements (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1627048&postcount=204) in multiple posts from a week or more ago in yesterdays article.


As fans its easy to make these decisions and question those he does make .... but its his $700million dollar toy.
There are lots of decisions we as fans are not privy to the answers to , he is.

He has to make those decisions based upon the information he believes to be the best guage - Looks to me like he believes that guage to be statistical data. Even if that data is taken out of context.

And that..bolded.. sums it up. The offense wasn't this shining beacon while the defense failed. The offense failed for many quarters which helped put them in holes. 10 quarters of hurry up, down by 14 or more isn't analyzing statistics. I don't think he analyzes anything and is a simpleton when it comes to football.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 09:44 AM
Probably not, but what can we do about it except move on with the team or bug out? What's it going to be?

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 09:46 AM
Probably not, but what can we do about it except move on with the team or bug out? What's it going to be?

Not sure. Frustration is high and this doesn't even take into effect that I'm waiting to see what Jerry does with my Cowboys and if we even have a season next year. Football hell right now.

BullNation4Life
01-04-2011, 09:51 AM
And that..bolded.. sums it up. The offense wasn't this shining beacon while the defense failed. The offense failed for many quarters which helped put them in holes. 10 quarters of hurry up, down by 14 or more isn't analyzing statistics. I don't think he analyzes anything and is a simpleton when it comes to football.


I think in Uncle Bob's eyes, it was the defense's fault they were down 14 points or more constantly, despite the slow starts the offense had.

So I think we are looking at a chicken or egg scenario here. Was the offense playing from behind becasue of the bad offense OR was the defense getting overexposed becasue of the slow starts on the offense...

Only Uncle Bob can answer that question. Either way, bringing Kubiak back was not the right decision...

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 09:52 AM
Not sure. Frustration is high and this doesn't even take into effect that I'm waiting to see what Jerry does with my Cowboys and if we even have a season next year. Football hell right now.

Yeah, any time your home town team's locker room's empty early January, it's going to feel like football hell. I understand and feel the frustration of a lot of y'all do. It just doesn't do me any good getting all bent out of shape about something that is out of my control. It's a simple choice. We either stick with the team through the ups and downs, or we move on to what we think are better things.

Texan_Bill
01-04-2011, 09:54 AM
Yeah, any time your home town team's locker room's empty early January, it's going to feel like football hell. I understand and feel the frustration of a lot of y'all do. It just doesn't do me any good getting all bent out of shape about something that is out of my control. It's a simple choice. We either stick with the team through the ups and downs, or we move on to what we think are better things.

Well said, bro!

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 09:55 AM
Yeah, any time your home town team's locker room's empty early January, it's going to feel like football hell. I understand and feel the frustration of a lot of y'all do. It just doesn't do me any good getting all bent out of shape about something that is out of my control. It's a simple choice. We either stick with the team through the ups and downs, or we move on to what we think are better things.

Yup, I was better shutting off the radio and avoiding football talk for most of the year. Listen to music again. Heck, I might not even be in this town this time next season. That is still in the air for me and the family. Seems like there will be alot going on this 2011.

beerlover
01-04-2011, 09:55 AM
I'm really impressed with Gary Patterson & staff. His defense finished 2nd in the NCAA & stopped a powerful Wisconsin OL/power running game despite being outweighed almost 40 pounds per player. He is the type of coach Texans should locate if they did due diligenece.

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 09:57 AM
I'm really impressed with Gary Patterson & staff. His defense finished 2nd in the NCAA & stopped a powerful Wisconsin OL/power running game despite being outweighed almost 40 pounds per player. He is the type of coach Texans should locate if they did due diligenece.

Love him and he has made my Frogs a program for years...though this next year should be down after losing 20 + seniors. I think his style may get through to college kids better though. He gets pretty uptight and sweaty..lol. Could be wrong though.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 09:58 AM
Yup, I was better shutting off the radio and avoiding football talk for most of the year. Listen to music again. Heck, I might not even be in this town this time next season. That is still in the air for me and the family. Seems like there will be alot going on this 2011.

Satellite radio, bro. I like to crank up a little Hairnation, Boneyard and Classic Rewind every day.

Good luck to you and the fam.

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 10:01 AM
Satellite radio, bro. I like to crank up a little Hairnation, Boneyard and Classic Rewind every day.

Good luck to you and the fam.

Need to get it. If not I have ipod capabilities in the car. Could be better for me.

Thanks man! Wife waiting to hear about Chicago or not and looking at other options.

thunderkyss
01-04-2011, 10:03 AM
I don't think he analyzes anything and is a simpleton when it comes to football.

One thing I don't think Kubiak gets enough credit for around here, is that he not only "rebuilt" this team, he "rebuilt" this franchise. The team on the field & the guys in the F.O. are Kubiak guys.

I think that is why McNair is sticking with Kubiak. As bad as the F.O. & the team may be, McNair probably believes it is miles ahead of where it was when Kubiak got here, & I find that hard to dispute.

I'll agree, from what we've seen on the field, on gameday, it is hard to justify bringing Kubiak back. But when you look at where we are as a franchise.... I think the argument can be made.

Bringing a guy like Cowher to the Texans would have made sense. He could fill in the exact same role as Kubiak with the exact same reach.... but Cowher has never had that kind of control, so maybe that's the gamble he didn't want to take.

Who knows.

HOU-TEX
01-04-2011, 10:10 AM
Need to get it. If not I have ipod capabilities in the car. Could be better for me.

Thanks man! Wife waiting to hear about Chicago or not and looking at other options.

Eww, Chicago?

BullNation4Life
01-04-2011, 10:22 AM
Need to get it. If not I have ipod capabilities in the car. Could be better for me.

Thanks man! Wife waiting to hear about Chicago or not and looking at other options.

http://www.freewebs.com/g0uads/dabears.jpg

DAAAAA BEARS! DA BEARS! DA BEARS! DA BEARS!

beerlover
01-04-2011, 10:23 AM
I also enjoyed watching Bud Foster, VT, last night vs. Stanford. like his passion & intensity his pep talks failed however, but if looks could kill as Stanford used an embarrasing number of unwarrented shifts late in the game I thought he was going to cross the field himself....

Now in regards to defensive coordinators in College with NFL experience what about Stanford DC Vic Fangio? Don't laugh off the former Houston Texan assistant. He is also rumored to be in Mac Browns sights for new DC. He was Capers 3-4 DC 2002-2005 & I'll maintain never had the tools to run the system, now he is very good dialing up blitz packages, just suffocated T-Mobil, while Capers has had similar success in Green Bay converting them to a 3-4.

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 10:23 AM
Eww, Chicago?

Continental merger...headquarters now. I love it there but we will see about living. Again, I'd have to get an equivalent job. We have alot of options. Should be interesting.

Mr. White
01-04-2011, 10:24 AM
I think there were better options out there, but we need to remember who we're dealing with. Firing Kubiak was probably never on the table in his mind. If it were, then we'd probably still be stuck with Rick Smith anyway. This isn't the solution I was hoping for, but I'll take it.

Replacing half of the coaching staff is pretty commonplace for most winning organizations. For McNair, this is a huge move.

In doing so, I think he increased Kubiak's sense of urgency. At least, that's what it sounded like in the press conference yesterday. Sounded to me like just getting a wild-card playoff berth and going out in the first round won't cut it.

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 10:26 AM
I think there were better options out there, but we need to remember who we're dealing with. Firing Kubiak was probably never on the table in his mind. If it were, then we'd probably still be stuck with Rick Smith anyway. This isn't the solution I was hoping for, but I'll take it.

Replacing half of the coaching staff is pretty commonplace for most winning organizations. For McNair, this is a huge move.

In doing so, I think he increased Kubiak's sense of urgency. At least, that's what it sounded like in the press conference yesterday. Just getting a wild-card playoff berth and going out in the first round won't cut it.

If Kubiak has any sense of urgency he would change himself first. Some games, Colts, you need to pound the ball. Other games throw the card out the window and see how running a Colt like hurry up does. That is one of the biggest ??? to me this season. Arian Foster was the stud. However the team also seemed to get into a better rhythm when in the hurry up. Kubiak never game planned to stick with either just because he wanted "balance." You can do both depending on the opponent.

Mr. White
01-04-2011, 10:40 AM
If Kubiak has any sense of urgency he would change himself first. Some games, Colts, you need to pund the ball. Other games throw the card out the window and see how running a Colt like hurry up does. That is one of the biggest ??? to me this season. Arian Foster was the stud. However the team also seemed to get into a better rhythm when in the hurry up. Kubiak never game planned to stick with either just because he wanted "balance." You can do both depending on the opponent.

I totally agree. I've been on board with this line of thinking all season.

Yesterday, one of the reporters asked him if firing all these guys is going to make him take a harder look at himself as a coach and he said it would. For now, I'll just take him at his word and hope that a fire has been lit under his ass.

Corrosion
01-04-2011, 10:44 AM
I totally agree. I've been on board with this line of thinking all season.

Yesterday, one of the reporters asked him if firing all these guys is going to make him take a harder look at himself as a coach and he said it would. For now, I'll just take him at his word and hope that a fire has been lit under his ass.

I want to see him send that message of urgency to his players and light a fire under their asses ..... Players missing tackles and blocks or dropping passes played a very large part in the shitstorm that was this season. In many of those cases those players were put in position to succeed and let the coaches down.

Yankee_In_TX
01-04-2011, 10:49 AM
Two things I think he believes - (1) changing coaches puts you 2-3 years back and (2) firing a coach prior to a lockout puts you back that simply aren't true (or at least the second is hard to swallow).

The teams considering NOT firing coaches prior to the lock out because of the lock out? Oakland, Tenn, Miami. Are those REALLY organizations we want to mirror?

steelbtexan
01-04-2011, 10:51 AM
Bob is a business man , not a football guy.


I said it several times before that I could see why he would come to the conclusions he has based on the metrics involved - mainly the offensive stats.

Much like in business he's looking at statistics when making his decisions .... right wrong or indfferent.

Mclaim pretty much echoed my statements (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1627048&postcount=204) in multiple posts from a week or more ago in yesterdays article.


As fans its easy to make these decisions and question those he does make .... but its his $700million dollar toy.
There are lots of decisions we as fans are not privy to the answers to , he is.

He has to make those decisions based upon the information he believes to be the best guage - Looks to me like he believes that guage to be statistical data. Even if that data is taken out of context.

As a businessman, I wofer if McNair has a Metric on how much he would have to pay a HC like Cowher and pay off Kubiaks contract. Vs keeping Kubiak and hiring Phillips as DC.

I mean after all it's just business.

Corrosion
01-04-2011, 11:00 AM
As a businessman, I wofer if McNair has a Metric on how much he would have to pay a HC like Cowher and pay off Kubiaks contract. Vs keeping Kubiak and hiring Phillips as DC.

I mean after all it's just business.

Now you are thinking like a businessman rather than a fan - which is from Bob's perspective and why Gary sticks around.


Toss in having to pay Kubiak for next season anyway .... And I really believe that he sticks around for another year.

:tiphat:

GP
01-04-2011, 11:01 AM
I want to see him send that message of urgency to his players and light a fire under their asses ..... Players missing tackles and blocks or dropping passes played a very large part in the shitstorm that was this season. In many of those cases those players were put in position to succeed and let the coaches down.

Wade Phillips won't do that for THIS defense.

And Kubiak is off on his own, 20 yards away from everyone and staring at his menu.

There will not be a sense of urgency here, for the players.

They will entrust themselves to this bunch of misfit coaches for the first few games, then we'll see the all-too-familiar sight of Texans players playing sloppy and not being held accountable.

McNair is trying to coast through 2011 and he knows that this coach is likely done here. The extension to keep Kubiak was a bad gamble on McNair's behalf. Then again, he probably doesn't care...since it was "the safe play" to make back then.

Safety first! :worldpeace:

Corrosion
01-04-2011, 11:04 AM
Wade Phillips won't do that for THIS defense.

And Kubiak is off on his own, 20 yards away from everyone and staring at his menu.

There will not be a sense of urgency here, for the players.

They will entrust themselves to this bunch of misfit coaches for the first few games, then we'll see the all-too-familiar sight of Texans players playing sloppy and not being held accountable.
McNair is trying to coast through 2011 and he knows that this coach is likely done here. The extension to keep Kubiak was a bad gamble on McNair's behalf. Then again, he probably doesn't care...since it was "the safe play" to make back then.

Safety first! :worldpeace:

Ive said it before and I'll say it again - when Gary did hold players accountable for their actions the fans roasted him. Being an NFL HC is like being between a fat chick and a transvestite ..... You want no part of either.

:cow: :scarygirl:

ThaShark316
01-04-2011, 11:09 AM
I still say McNair threatened Kubiak's job.

Come on man, Kubes repeatedly says "we need to fix the D" over, and over, over...like it's going out of style.


Telling you guys, Kubiak is on such a short leash. McNair might be a lot of things, but he's no fool. He knows what people say. He knows what he hears while he sits in the press box.

If this team doesn't improve, Gary is out of a job.

Texan_Bill
01-04-2011, 11:11 AM
Ive said it before and I'll say it again - when Gary did hold players accountable for their actions the fans roasted him. Being an NFL HC is like being between a fat chick and a transvestite ..... You want no part of either.

:cow: :scarygirl:

:mcnugget:

Really?? Really????

CloakNNNdagger
01-04-2011, 11:12 AM
Bob is a business man , not a football guy.


but its his $700million dollar toy.


He has to make those decisions based upon the information he believes to be the best guage - Looks to me like he believes that guage to be statistical data. Even if that data is taken out of context.

You are, indeed, correct. It IS HIS toy to do with as he wishes. But it's when he toys with fans year after year promising good things and only offering up windmills we can all have "fun" charging after......................

And for his apparent "statistical guage?" Evidently, nowhere do you find the stat that is the most important of them all.....................WINS!

drs23
01-04-2011, 11:14 AM
I also enjoyed watching Bud Foster, VT, last night vs. Stanford. like his passion & intensity his pep talks failed however, but if looks could kill as Stanford used an embarrasing number of unwarrented shifts late in the game I thought he was going to cross the field himself....

Now in regards to defensive coordinators in College with NFL experience what about Stanford DC Vic Fangio? Don't laugh off the former Houston Texan assistant. He is also rumored to be in Mac Browns sights for new DC. He was Capers 3-4 DC 2002-2005 & I'll maintain never had the tools to run the system, now he is very good dialing up blitz packages, just suffocated T-Mobil, while Capers has had similar success in Green Bay converting them to a 3-4.

Didn't do them much good though, huh, BL? Just back to the LOS. I thought they would confuse them and take it to the house though. I think that was the first time I'd seen that many shifts.

eriadoc
01-04-2011, 11:16 AM
Not sure. Frustration is high and this doesn't even take into effect that I'm waiting to see what Jerry does with my Cowboys and if we even have a season next year. Football hell right now.

Take a deep breath, have a beer, and go watch your DVR copy of TCU winning their bowl game. :)

Congrats on that, by the way.

mussop
01-04-2011, 11:52 AM
I think that is why McNair is sticking with Kubiak. As bad as the F.O. & the team may be, McNair probably believes it is miles ahead of where it was when Kubiak got here, & I find that hard to dispute.

I'll agree, from what we've seen on the field, on gameday, it is hard to justify bringing Kubiak back. But when you look at where we are as a franchise.... I think the argument can be made.

Thunderkyss please explain the statement above. How exactly is this franchise any better today than it was before Kubiak.

CloakNNNdagger
01-04-2011, 11:56 AM
Not sure. Frustration is high and this doesn't even take into effect that I'm waiting to see what Jerry does with my Cowboys and if we even have a season next year. Football hell right now.

You have nothing to worry about, HF. Jerry is so impressed with Bob being on the "right track" and making all the right moves, I hear he will be seeking his advice as to how to make his "on-the-cusp" team into a real winner just like the Texans. If I were a drinking man, I'd share a couple with you.:handshake:

GlassHalfFull
01-04-2011, 12:02 PM
Yeah, any time your home town team's locker room's empty early January, it's going to feel like football hell. I understand and feel the frustration of a lot of y'all do. It just doesn't do me any good getting all bent out of shape about something that is out of my control. It's a simple choice. We either stick with the team through the ups and downs, or we move on to what we think are better things.

^^^^this. I was telliing Gary on Sat (our Gary, not the Gary - or maybe our Gary is THE GARY - anyway, I digress) that what I think doesn't matter. And I don't want to get myself all upset and worked up about something out of my control.

HoustonFrog
01-04-2011, 12:07 PM
Take a deep breath, have a beer, and go watch your DVR copy of TCU winning their bowl game. :)

Congrats on that, by the way.

Thanks, that is getting me through the times...and the beer :toast2:

You have nothing to worry about, HF. Jerry is so impressed with Bob being on the "right track" and making all the right moves, I hear he will be seeking his advice as to how to make his "on-the-cusp" team into a real winner just like the Texans. If I were a drinking man, I'd share a couple with you.:handshake:

:wadepalm:

What scares me is the attitude of many fellow Cowboy fans now. Garrett did a bang up job changing the attitude, etc but they still went 6-10 with Garrett OCing the first 8 of 1-7. They played hard but in that 5-3 stretch I saw way too many "memories of Wade" mistakes and too many questionable calls. He might end up being a stud but I would want him picking his own staff...won't happen with Jerry.(stunned if he lets him). So all of this leaves me feeling that the whole "expecting excellence" thing I've preached for them for 35 years has become..."we are playing harder." That kind of reeks of cheering effort and mediocrity. Hope I'm wrong.

wagonhed
01-04-2011, 12:26 PM
Just want to say one thing. McNair is not keeping Kubiak based on statistics or anything close to that. Almost any possible analysis of statistics you can do shows that Kubiak should be gone. If Bob was this bad at looking at statistics and figuring out optimal strategies in the business world than he'd be a poor as a m'er f'er.

The only way you can say this move was about statistics is by saying that Kubiak is in charge of the offense (despite the fact that we have an actual OC, and Kubiak is not him) and that he had no responsibility for the defense. And then you look at the offensive rank and the defensive rank, and your analysis ends there. That's the most juvenile treatment of football statistics I think one could possibly imagine. There is no freaking way Bob McNair made billions of dollars using logic that would get him failed out of a freshman business stats class.

CloakNNNdagger
01-04-2011, 12:43 PM
Thanks, that is getting me through the times...and the beer :toast2:



:wadepalm:

What scares me is the attitude of many fellow Cowboy fans now. Garrett did a bang up job changing the attitude, etc but they still went 6-10 with Garrett OCing the first 8 of 1-7. They played hard but in that 5-3 stretch I saw way too many "memories of Wade" mistakes and too many questionable calls. He might end up being a stud but I would want him picking his own staff...won't happen with Jerry.(stunned if he lets him). So all of this leaves me feeling that the whole "expecting excellence" thing I've preached for them for 35 years has become..."we are playing harder." That kind of reeks of cheering effort and mediocrity. Hope I'm wrong.

That's the sad analogy I was getting at between the Cowboys and the Texans owners ways of thinking about the importance of how to choose your GM and coaching staff. Different paths............same crumby resulting decision trees.

Corrosion
01-04-2011, 12:43 PM
Just want to say one thing. McNair is not keeping Kubiak based on statistics or anything close to that. Almost any possible analysis of statistics you can do shows that Kubiak should be gone. If Bob was this bad at looking at statistics and figuring out optimal strategies in the business world than he'd be a poor as a m'er f'er.

The only way you can say this move was about statistics is by saying that Kubiak is in charge of the offense (despite the fact that we have an actual OC, and Kubiak is not him) and that he had no responsibility for the defense. And then you look at the offensive rank and the defensive rank, and your analysis ends there. That's the most juvenile treatment of football statistics I think one could possibly imagine. There is no freaking way Bob McNair made billions of dollars using logic that would get him failed out of a freshman business stats class.

Bob said himself (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7363893.html) that the defense was the problem ... Top five offense , bottom three defense.


“It’s clear the offense isn’t where the problem lies,” McNair said. “Our defense is in the bottom three. If our defense had just been average, we’d be in the playoffs and out practicing instead of talking.



But hey , you believe whatever makes you happy.

michaelm
01-04-2011, 12:51 PM
Anybody catch 610 this morning when one of the guys said Wade Phillips won't be available until something like Jan 23rd because he is coaching one of the teams in the East-West Shrine game?

The way they explained it, contacting Phillips before that time would be considered tampering on the part of the Texans, or any other team.

Weird, because he obviously isn't employed by any team right now. Maybe he is still considered an employee of the NFL, and that's what would cause a conflict?
I'm pretty sure this is posted on 610's web site, but I'm blocked from that site here at work, so no linky...

Double Barrel
01-04-2011, 01:05 PM
Bob is a business man , not a football guy.


I said it several times before that I could see why he would come to the conclusions he has based on the metrics involved - mainly the offensive stats.

Much like in business he's looking at statistics when making his decisions .... right wrong or indfferent.

Mclaim pretty much echoed my statements (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1627048&postcount=204) in multiple posts from a week or more ago in yesterdays article.


As fans its easy to make these decisions and question those he does make .... but its his $700million dollar toy.
There are lots of decisions we as fans are not privy to the answers to , he is.

He has to make those decisions based upon the information he believes to be the best guage - Looks to me like he believes that guage to be statistical data. Even if that data is taken out of context.

Well said, man. I think the key statement is that McNair is a businessman and not a football guy.

When fans truly understand this perspective, then they can start to comprehend the past 9 seasons.

I think the learning curve for being a noob football owner is far longer than any of us expected, and perhaps the qualifications that McNair bases his hiring on is still a work in progress.

Yeah, any time your home town team's locker room's empty early January, it's going to feel like football hell. I understand and feel the frustration of a lot of y'all do. It just doesn't do me any good getting all bent out of shape about something that is out of my control. It's a simple choice. We either stick with the team through the ups and downs, or we move on to what we think are better things.

QFT. Definitely stick with them through thick and thin...and thinner...and thinnest....but, all that said, it's still within the scope of being a fan to vent and ***** sometimes.

Two things I think he believes - (1) changing coaches puts you 2-3 years back and (2) firing a coach prior to a lockout puts you back that simply aren't true (or at least the second is hard to swallow).

The teams considering NOT firing coaches prior to the lock out because of the lock out? Oakland, Tenn, Miami. Are those REALLY organizations we want to mirror?

Two out of three have multiple championships, and the other has been to the Super Bowl. I'm not advocating being like them, but, given options, I'd take those franchises over Cleveland and Detroit any day. Where do you think the Texans fall on that example scale?

You are, indeed, correct. It IS HIS toy to do with as he wishes. But it's when he toys with fans year after year promising good things and only offering up windmills we can all have "fun" charging after......................

And for his apparent "statistical guage?" Evidently, nowhere do you find the stat that is the most important of them all.....................WINS!

yep. If McNair would just shoot straight with fans and admit that he's going to stick with Kubiak until he gets us to the playoffs, I think a lot of fans would respect it even in disagreement.

It's when he gets an interview with Bob Allen the night the season ends and acts clueless about his decision(s) that fans start to sense a disingenuous attitude and can clearly see through the obvious politician speak.

infantrycak
01-04-2011, 01:15 PM
Anybody catch 610 this morning when one of the guys said Wade Phillips won't be available until something like Jan 23rd because he is coaching one of the teams in the East-West Shrine game?

The way they explained it, contacting Phillips before that time would be considered tampering on the part of the Texans, or any other team.

Weird, because he obviously isn't employed by any team right now. Maybe he is still considered an employee of the NFL, and that's what would cause a conflict?
I'm pretty sure this is posted on 610's web site, but I'm blocked from that site here at work, so no linky...

That was John Lopez' speculation on timing for the announcement. I think he was misinformed about the tampering thing.

ChampionTexan
01-04-2011, 02:05 PM
Anybody catch 610 this morning when one of the guys said Wade Phillips won't be available until something like Jan 23rd because he is coaching one of the teams in the East-West Shrine game?

The way they explained it, contacting Phillips before that time would be considered tampering on the part of the Texans, or any other team.

Weird, because he obviously isn't employed by any team right now. Maybe he is still considered an employee of the NFL, and that's what would cause a conflict?
I'm pretty sure this is posted on 610's web site, but I'm blocked from that site here at work, so no linky...

Well, it can't be tampering in the sense that we normally think of the word (at least "normally" as it relates to the NFL). Kubiak has already said in so many words he is a candidate, and Wade has already said in so many words he's interested in the job. Either one of those things would be no-no's if there was a possibility of tampering charges. Even if there were a contractual obligation in place on Wade's part, that could be worked around, heck, assistant coaches under contract to teams in the playoffs can be interviewed for HC jobs if their team has a bye-week. You just need to be sure all the necessary permissions have been granted.

Didn't hear the show, so I'm only guessing, but it's very likely his availability to start coaching may be delayed until his obligations to the E-W Shrine game are over, but that shouldn't prevent him from talking to the Texans, and even accepting the job should it be offered to him.

Edit: Another reason I'm assuming it's incorrect is that Lopez is a moron!

thunderkyss
01-04-2011, 07:06 PM
Well said, man. I think the key statement is that McNair is a businessman and not a football guy.

When fans truly understand this perspective, then they can start to comprehend the past 9 seasons.

I think the learning curve for being a noob football owner is far longer than any of us expected, and perhaps the qualifications that McNair bases his hiring on is still a work in progress.


OR.....

How long does it take to build a winning franchise from the ground up?

I think most of us throw out the Panthers & Jaguars as examples, because our expansion drafts had detrimentally different rules. So that leaves Cleveland.

The Cleveland Browns have 2 winning seasons in 12 NFL seasons. It took them 4 years to get their first 9-7 record, another 5 years for their second winning record (10-6). & it's been 3 seasons since their last winning record.

FYI, the Browns 10-6 season came against a .508 S.O.S (that would be equivalent to our 2009 schedule).

9 years into their new franchise, the Cleveland Browns was on their way to firing their 3rd head coach, their 3rd GM, & 1 team president with a combined record of 50-94. One play off appearances, one 10 win season, two winning seasons.....

9 years into the Texans franchise, we've only fired one head coach. one general manager. Our combined record is 55-89. No play off appearances, 1 winning season, no 10 win seasons.

So.... we've got one franchise changing directions every time the wind blows. & another, not really doing much better (unless you factor S.O.S.) steadily trodding in a single direction.

The Browns made it to the play-offs in their 4th season. 9-7, multiple tie breakers. BUt...... are they any more respectable than the Texans? I mean that's the team we "hope" we aren't.

Lucky
01-04-2011, 07:19 PM
One thing I don't think Kubiak gets enough credit for around here, is that he not only "rebuilt" this team, he "rebuilt" this franchise.
"Rebuilt" the franchise into what, exactly? A loser with better stats? That's what I'll credit Coach Teflon with.

Anybody catch 610 this morning when one of the guys said Wade Phillips won't be available until something like Jan 23rd because he is coaching one of the teams in the East-West Shrine game?
I'm sure the Shriners will understand, and get another out of work coach.

Texecutioner
01-04-2011, 08:27 PM
Bob is a business man , not a football guy.


I said it several times before that I could see why he would come to the conclusions he has based on the metrics involved - mainly the offensive stats.

Much like in business he's looking at statistics when making his decisions .... right wrong or indfferent.

Mclaim pretty much echoed my statements (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1627048&postcount=204) in multiple posts from a week or more ago in yesterdays article.


As fans its easy to make these decisions and question those he does make .... but its his $700million dollar toy.
There are lots of decisions we as fans are not privy to the answers to , he is.

He has to make those decisions based upon the information he believes to be the best guage - Looks to me like he believes that guage to be statistical data. Even if that data is taken out of context.

Come on Corrosion. How many times and for how long are you going to spoin these excuses for Bob Mcnair? This line of thinking has gotten old now and has proven to be wrong with his actions or lack there of at this point. He's a really bad owner for any fan as far as the franchise they root for. He's another AL Davis or Mike Brown but just in different ways. The team's lack of success and backbone is proof of it and his inability to make necessary changes are as well.

Corrosion
01-04-2011, 09:09 PM
Come on Corrosion. How many times and for how long are you going to spoin these excuses for Bob Mcnair? This line of thinking has gotten old now and has proven to be wrong with his actions or lack there of at this point. He's a really bad owner for any fan as far as the franchise they root for. He's another AL Davis or Mike Brown but just in different ways. The team's lack of success and backbone is proof of it and his inability to make necessary changes are as well.

I guess you missed the part in blue

steelbtexan
01-04-2011, 09:20 PM
Yeah, any time your home town team's locker room's empty early January, it's going to feel like football hell. I understand and feel the frustration of a lot of y'all do. It just doesn't do me any good getting all bent out of shape about something that is out of my control. It's a simple choice. We either stick with the team through the ups and downs, or we move on to what we think are better things.

What ups have there been in the 9 yrs of this franchise?

9-7 LOL

steelbtexan
01-04-2011, 09:30 PM
"Rebuilt" the franchise into what, exactly? A loser with better stats? That's what I'll credit Coach Teflon with.

Seems fair enough, if you like most rational fans judge progress by W/L's. Who was responsible for drafting the crappy defense? Smith still has his job/Kubiak ditto. This is what's known as no accountability.


I'm sure the Shriners will understand, and get another out of work coach.

Maybe he can find a sleeper or 2 out of that game. I'm setting my goals high for Smithiak this offseason. They both will be at the combine. That's an improvement over last yrs combine.

They probably will screw up their draft as per normal.

HOU-TEX
01-05-2011, 09:43 AM
Maybe he can find a sleeper or 2 out of that game. I'm setting my goals high for Smithiak this offseason. They both will be at the combine. That's an improvement over last yrs combine.

They probably will screw up their draft as per normal.

K, this is your second remark about the combine so I'll comment. You do realize the combine's a joke, right? The only things coaches/scouts really look at are the check ins (weight, height, etc.), interviews and maybe the wonderlic. If there are coaches and/or scouts relying on the combine for answers, they'd end up with Al Davis type drafts (save 2010).

Game film is the best source of info for any scout or coach.

Double Barrel
01-05-2011, 02:37 PM
OR.....

How long does it take to build a winning franchise from the ground up?

The Saints were 3-13 when the Texans were 2-14 after the 2005 season, and NOLA had a helluva' lot more obstacles to overcome, all things considered.

So do the math.

p.s. I'm not buying the expansion tag 9 years into it.

infantrycak
01-05-2011, 02:55 PM
The Saints were 3-13 when the Texans were 2-14 after the 2005 season, and NOLA had a helluva' lot more obstacles to overcome, all things considered.

So do the math.

p.s. I'm not buying the expansion tag 9 years into it.

Agreed, throw away the expansion tag.

How did the Saints have a lot more obstacles to overcome? - what were they?

They were a team about where we are now or were last year (they had a 4 year history of .500 ball (preceded by a playoff season)) that had an off year because of a hurricane, an imploding QB and losing a pro-bowl RB.

*these questions do not imply the Texans did not make mistakes during this time period.

Mr teX
01-05-2011, 03:06 PM
Agreed, throw away the expansion tag.

How did the Saints have a lot more obstacles to overcome? - what were they?

They were a team about where we are now or were last year (they had a 4 year history of .500 ball (preceded by a playoff season)) that had an off year because of a hurricane, an imploding QB and losing a pro-bowl RB.

*these questions do not imply the Texans did not make mistakes during this time period.

This is my thing. Everyone's hot to trot for the playoffs which is understandable. Everyone says it doesn't take 2-3 years to turn around a team where "turn around" is implied to mean making the playoffs. But my question is, how many of those teams stay turned around & headed in the right direction? Moreover, how many of those teams continue to have success & turn completely around? Off the top of my head i'm thinking not many of them do & the main reason for that is b/c often times other things like SOS & straight up luck have more to do with that immediate success than anything else.

I say this b/c i'm not interested in a token playoff appearance every couple of years. When this team finally does make it to the playoffs i want us to be a real contenders, not a team like the seahawks this year. Sure, it looks great on paper, but if noone is really worried about you going anywhere, then really what's the point?

Double Barrel
01-05-2011, 03:35 PM
Agreed, throw away the expansion tag.

How did the Saints have a lot more obstacles to overcome? - what were they?

They were a team about where we are now or were last year (they had a 4 year history of .500 ball (preceded by a playoff season)) that had an off year because of a hurricane, an imploding QB and losing a pro-bowl RB.

*these questions do not imply the Texans did not make mistakes during this time period.

I'd say having the threat of relocation over their heads and then the aftermath of Katrina were major obstacles that the Texans never had to worry about. Benson was still uncertain about relocation after the hurricane with a press release in October 2005 that he had not made any decision about the future of the Saints.

Interesting statement you made regarding the Saints being "a team about where we are now or were last year", because they fired their head coach after such average results.

I just used the Saints as an example to TK's question. How about the 1-15 Dolphins of 2007 going 11-5 the next year with a trip to the playoffs?

I'm not expecting the Texans to make such dramatic turnarounds, but it is absurd to act like 5 freakin' years is not long enough for a franchise to turn things around.

5-7 four years in a row? 4-2 to 6-10 in year 5? Most owners would have had enough of that crap. TK had to reach for the BROWNS, of all teams, to make a comparison with the Texans. Yeah, that's the organization that I want to read about as an example to ours (not really).

HoustonFrog
01-05-2011, 03:40 PM
This is my thing. Everyone's hot to trot for the playoffs which is understandable. Everyone says it doesn't take 2-3 years to turn around a team where "turn around" is implied to mean making the playoffs. But my question is, how many of those teams stay turned around & headed in the right direction? Moreover, how many of those teams continue to have success & turn completely around? Off the top of my head i'm thinking not many of them do & the main reason for that is b/c often times other things like SOS & straight up luck have more to do with that immediate success than anything else.

I say this b/c i'm not interested in a token playoff appearance every couple of years. When this team finally does make it to the playoffs i want us to be a real contenders, not a team like the seahawks this year. Sure, it looks great on paper, but if noone is really worried about you going anywhere, then really what's the point?

Most teams that turned it around when Gary came around are still chugging away...Atlanta and others. Miami is the only one I can think of that went from 11-5 and playoffs to back down to earth.

GP
01-05-2011, 10:11 PM
Most teams that turned it around when Gary came around are still chugging away...Atlanta and others. Miami is the only one I can think of that went from 11-5 and playoffs to back down to earth.

I think you don't know it yet, but you're a Texans fan.

The stuff I have seen you post, now as compared to the stuff you posted long ago, make me think you're genuinely following this team.

It felt like you were a Cowboys fan just coming here and sort of keeping your distance while also posting "some" Texans-related thoughts. It seems like you're actually posting more Texans-related stuff and I haven't even really read anything of yours that's geared toward Cowboys.

Maybe my evaluation is off. And I'm not trying to label you something you aren't or never were, etc. Just saying that I think you're drifting into some waters here and might not know it yet.

Maybe? I mean, you and I couldn't even stand one another. And now we're backing each other up on a fairly consistent basis here. Just sayin'....

CloakNNNdagger
01-05-2011, 10:30 PM
I think you don't know it yet, but you're a Texans fan.

The stuff I have seen you post, now as compared to the stuff you posted long ago, make me think you're genuinely following this team.

It felt like you were a Cowboys fan just coming here and sort of keeping your distance while also posting "some" Texans-related thoughts. It seems like you're actually posting more Texans-related stuff and I haven't even really read anything of yours that's geared toward Cowboys.

Maybe my evaluation is off. And I'm not trying to label you something you aren't or never were, etc. Just saying that I think you're drifting into some waters here and might not know it yet.

Maybe? I mean, you and I couldn't even stand one another. And now we're backing each other up on a fairly consistent basis here. Just sayin'....


GP,

As one who has been anti-Cowboys ever since Stretch took over, I was probably the first on this board that actually recognized a genuine fondness for the Texans (as a second team, of course) on the part of Frog.......and extended a welcome to somone many saw as only the "enemy." Frog may have a hard Cowboys cover. But his heart somewhat "bleeds" the same blood that most of us have over the past year. I'll take the chance that Frog doesn't take me to task for this.