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View Full Version : It's official... Troy Nolan is someone we can work with.


Carr Bombed
01-02-2011, 05:50 PM
That kid just has a nose for the ball....even if he does make mistakes, maybe he can learn.

TheMatrix31
01-02-2011, 05:53 PM
Agreed. Like what I see out of him.

TexansFanatic
01-02-2011, 05:58 PM
The fact he wasn't starting from day one is just another hint as to why this team is 6 and 10.

ThaShark316
01-02-2011, 06:03 PM
Nolan....AGAIN...congrats to indy!

J_R
01-02-2011, 06:03 PM
Nolan with the INT. :)

TexansFanatic
01-02-2011, 06:04 PM
And, right on cue, he comes up with another turnover.

TheMatrix31
01-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Great pick!

DexmanC
01-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Pollard gets benched, and Nolan get the first "safety-over-the-top-pick"
of the season.

Carr Bombed
01-02-2011, 06:04 PM
Holy crap. Why wasn't this kid playing sooner? :bat:

TexanSam
01-02-2011, 06:08 PM
Holy ****....why wasn't this kid playing sooner? :bat:

He did start a few games this season. Defense still sucked.

mariowillshine15
01-02-2011, 06:08 PM
Holy ****....why wasn't this kid playing sooner? :bat:

We never play our young guys early enough.

Foster last year, Nolan, Casey when OD was out.

Get the more talented players in there.

Wish we could of seen Dickerson in this game.

Wolf
01-02-2011, 06:08 PM
because we weren't going against Trent Edwards?

Wolf
01-02-2011, 06:09 PM
We never play our young guys early enough.

Wish we could of seen Dickerson in this game.

I thought Dickerson had a hamstring injury?

TexCanada
01-02-2011, 06:10 PM
He did start a few games this season. Defense still sucked.

Exactly. Nolan had been just as terrible as the rest of our defense. We need a whole new defensive staff next year with every spot on the D open for a player to win it.

GP
01-02-2011, 06:11 PM
Pollard gets benched, and Nolan get the first "safety-over-the-top-pick"
of the season.

I have a feeling Pollard doesn't get a contract here.

He was a liability this year. Whatever toughness he brought here, he has nullified due to bad coverage all season long.

This team has to have a true Free Safety and an equally talented ball-hawking Strong Safety (not just a hard hitter back there) in order to have a chance at masking the problems at CB.

Then again, we're talking TRENT EDWARDS here. So, whatever....:kubepalm:

Pantherstang84
01-02-2011, 06:11 PM
FWIW...I didn't see Bob on the field at the end of the game.

thunderkyss
01-02-2011, 06:11 PM
That kid just has a nose for the ball....even if he does make mistakes, maybe he can learn.

I never really thought about a Nolan/Wilson backfield. Looked much better than a Pollard/Wilson backfield.

I figured since Pollard was a play maker, you have to keep him on the field.

Now, I think we still need to find another safety.... to go along with Nolan.

CretorFrigg
01-02-2011, 06:11 PM
Pollard gets benched, and Nolan get the first "safety-over-the-top-pick"
of the season.

Pollard was benched? Wow, I'm so out of touch. No wonder I didn't see him there. What was the coach's reason for benching him?

TheMatrix31
01-02-2011, 06:13 PM
I don't think he was benched. Coulda sworn I read about an injury.

Doppelganger
01-02-2011, 06:13 PM
I have a feeling Pollard doesn't get a contract here.

He was a liability this year. Whatever toughness he brought here, he has nullified due to bad coverage all season long.

This team has to have a true Free Safety and an equally talented ball-hawking Strong Safety (not just a hard hitter back there) in order to have a chance at masking the problems at CB.

Then again, we're talking TRENT EDWARDS here. So, whatever....:kubepalm:

Pollard is one dimensional. He has no place on this defense. With the refs going towards flagging hard hits more and more, he may not have a place in the league.

Just getting rid of him will be a good start.

Carr Bombed
01-02-2011, 06:22 PM
I'm not just talking about his pass coverage, so Edwards doesn't have much to do with it. I'm talking about how he has a nose for the ball. If you watch his college tape, he had a nose for the ball. In preseason he was making plays and now he makes plays today. Did he make some mistakes this season....yes, but he's young. I can live with a young player who makes mistakes, if he has a nose for the ball and comes up with big plays.

The difference between Pollard this season and last season was he made big plays last season...he still sucked in coverage, but he made plays


Wilson almost never makes a play.

With only 3 starts....Nolan now has 3 picks.

Pollardized
01-02-2011, 06:26 PM
Pollard is one dimensional. He has no place on this defense. With the refs going towards flagging hard hits more and more, he may not have a place in the league.

Just getting rid of him will be a good start.

Do I have to change my name?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Do I have to change my name?



Go with DeMecowned.

DexmanC
01-02-2011, 06:30 PM
Do I have to change my name?

"Nolaroid?"

Pollardized
01-02-2011, 06:33 PM
"Nolaroid?"

Hemorrhoid? After our coaching staff....

Maddict5
01-02-2011, 06:35 PM
Go with DeMecowned.

i wouldnt go with the guy with a possible career ending injury myself

troy played quite well in his natural position of SS. was high on him when we signed, really high on him after PS & raiders, down on him after the rest of his reg season today.

did give away a PI though

Rey
01-02-2011, 06:45 PM
I wouldn't go with any player on the team unless I was going with Andreoid or something...

The rest of these guys could be here today and gone tomorrow without making any kind of lasting impact on the team...

thunderkyss
01-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Do I have to change my name?

Depends......... if our DC next year puts play-makers on the field & lets them make plays....


who knows?

dream_team
01-02-2011, 06:51 PM
It's no surprise if you replace Pollard with Nolan that our pass coverage improves, but the run support suffers.

I'd rather have Pollard still there, but more speed at Free Safety. I don't think Nolan is the long term answer still.

mariowillshine15
01-02-2011, 06:53 PM
It's no surprise if you replace Pollard with Nolan that our pass coverage improves, but the run support suffers.

I'd rather have Pollard still there, but more speed at Free Safety. I don't think Nolan is the long term answer still.

Or perhaps Pollard in on running downs and Nolan in on obvious passing downs.

DonnyMost
01-02-2011, 06:54 PM
Troy Nolan isn't anything to bank on.

If we get a chance to sign or draft a stud safety, we take it.

HJam72
01-02-2011, 06:54 PM
Or perhaps Pollard in on running downs and Nolan in on obvious passing downs.

Great, except I would run a 2-minute offense the whole game against that.

PapaL
01-02-2011, 06:55 PM
Pollard is one dimensional. He has no place on this defense. With the refs going towards flagging hard hits more and more, he may not have a place in the league.

Just getting rid of him will be a good start.

Our entire D is one dimensional. That dimension is sucking!

thunderkyss
01-02-2011, 07:03 PM
Troy Nolan isn't anything to bank on.

If we get a chance to sign or draft a stud safety, we take it.

We're so thin at safety, I'd pick up another two or three anyway.

Mr teX
01-02-2011, 07:15 PM
Troy Nolan isn't anything to bank on.

If we get a chance to sign or draft a stud safety, we take it.

This. He's got 3 picks this year against trash qb's. Anybody remotely competent & looks just like the rest of the guys back there..... hot garbage. And for once, i actually agree with GP.

Pollardized
01-02-2011, 07:16 PM
You know, I don't recall this kind of negativity about Pollard last year. He seemed to make our overall defense better IIRC. Maybe he has been coached down this year. Last year he came in off the streets and just played. He also may have had more help last year than he does this year. I just can't believe someone who helped us so much last season is that bad this year, without a reasonable explanation.

Plus I don't want to change my name... :bat:

Rey
01-02-2011, 07:18 PM
The enitre secondary are victims of poor defensive coaching.

That said, if you can find more talent to put back there you do it.

But this entire defense would look better with competent defensive coaching. It's no coincidence that so many players have regressed this year. That SCREAMS coaching.

FirstTexansFan
01-02-2011, 07:19 PM
You know, I don't recall this kind of negativity about Pollard last year. He seemed to make our overall defense better IIRC. Maybe he has been coached down this year. Last year he came in off the streets and just played. He also may have had more help last year than he does this year. I just can't believe someone who helped us so much last season is that bad this year, without a reasonable explanation.

Plus I don't want to change my name... :bat:

No need too, Pollardized is a dictionary term now, the players name is no longer needed for the word to describe itself :)

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-02-2011, 07:20 PM
It will be pretty disappointing if we go into next season with Troy Nolan and Bernard Pollard/Eugene Wilson as our starting safeties.

Mr teX
01-02-2011, 07:21 PM
The enitre secondary are victims of poor defensive coaching.

That said, if you can find more talent to put back there you do it.

But this entire defense would look better with competent defensive coaching. It's no coincidence that so many players have regressed this year. That SCREAMS coaching.

But would they be good enough to win & get to the playoffs is the question. I say no.

Pollardized
01-02-2011, 07:22 PM
It will be pretty disappointing if we go into next season with Troy Nolan and Bernard Pollard/Eugene Wilson as our starting safeties.

Now Steel Blue, we are on the right track...

Carr Bombed
01-02-2011, 07:25 PM
This. He's got 3 picks this year against trash qb's. Anybody remotely competent & looks just like the rest of the guys back there..... hot garbage. And for once, i actually agree with GP.

LOL, Troy Nolan hasn't been on the field long enough to be considered "hot garbage".

We barely even know what we have in him as a player, because he really hasn't even been given a shot.


This kind of reminds me of the Marlon McCree situation...he never got a shot either and became a very productive player somewhere else. And that somewhere else just happened to be the Chargers, guess who was the defensive coordinator?

I think there's talent on this defense, they just run around with their heads cut off, because they're ill prepared and under coached.

PapaL
01-02-2011, 07:26 PM
You know, I don't recall this kind of negativity about Pollard last year. He seemed to make our overall defense better IIRC. Maybe he has been coached down this year. Last year he came in off the streets and just played. He also may have had more help last year than he does this year. I just can't believe someone who helped us so much last season is that bad this year, without a reasonable explanation.

Plus I don't want to change my name... :bat:


One of the many unknowns of this year

PapaL
01-02-2011, 07:31 PM
It will be pretty disappointing if we go into next season with Troy Nolan and Bernard Pollard/Eugene Wilson as our starting safeties.

+1

Let's go young again in our secondary. That's ALWAYS a great idea here.

Mr teX
01-02-2011, 07:36 PM
LOL, Troy Nolan hasn't been on the field long enough to be considered "hot garbage".

We barely even know what we have in him as a player, because he really hasn't even been given a shot.


This kind of reminds me of the Marlon McCree situation...he never got a shot either and became a very productive player somewhere else. And that somewhere else just happened to be the Chargers, guess who was the defensive coordinator?

I think there's talent on this defense, they just run around with their heads cut off, because they're ill prepared and under coached.

He's been on the field enough, & he's looked bad enough times for me to rule him out as an answer back there. Wasn't that just him back there in the titans game volleyball-ing the ball in the air for Britt to catch it on the rebound early in the game? I also seem to remember him out of position more than a few times in the jets game.

So many of the great players in this league make plays at least half the time off of pure instincts. We know the coaching is lacking, but my question is when does the coaching stop & the players' instincts take over? That's what i see that is supremely lacking on this team..there are maybe 2-3 guys total who seem to have great instincts...Meco, Dre & Foster.

Rey
01-02-2011, 07:39 PM
But would they be good enough to win & get to the playoffs is the question. I say no.

I think so.

A more competent defense would've gone a long way this season.

Carr Bombed
01-02-2011, 07:44 PM
He's been on the field enough, & he's looked bad enough times for me to rule him out as an answer back there. Wasn't that just him back there in the titans game volleyball-ing the ball in the air for Britt to catch it on the rebound early in the game? I also seem to remember him out of position more than a few times in the jets game.

So many of the great players in this league make plays at least half the time off of pure instincts. We know the coaching is lacking, but my question is when does the coaching stop & the players' instincts take over? That's what i see that is supremely lacking on this team..there are maybe 2-3 guys total who seem to have great instincts...Meco, Dre & Foster.

Three NFL starts is enough for you to decide a player has no future in the NFL?


Okay...

Also how can you blame him for that tipped ball to Britt. I thought it was another good play by him, just a bad bounce of the ball. The only thing that was, was another time the kid got his hands on a ball. If you get your hands on the ball enough, you're going to make plays and he has a knack for making plays. I think 3 picks in 3 starts and now a FR is making plays half the time.

Mr teX
01-02-2011, 07:53 PM
Three NFL starts is enough for you to decide a player has no future in the NFL?


Okay...

Also how can you blame him for that tipped ball to Britt. I thought it was another good play by him, just a bad bounce of the ball. The only thing that was, was another time the kid got his hands on a ball. If you get your hands on the ball enough, you're going to make plays and he has a knack for making plays. I think 3 picks in 3 starts and now a FR is making plays half the time.

You don't have to start to make your prescence felt. He's gotten spot duty against other teams & you heard nothing from him. Moreover we were still garbage back there giving up nearly 300 a game in the air & he was apart of that, however much he did play. There is noone back there that can be worked with for a starting spot except for KJ; And that's only b/c he's a rookie. & for all the plays he made they were still against garbage qbs.....that being said, if there is someone who obviously could be better for us & available.... get him.

Carr Bombed
01-02-2011, 08:09 PM
:rolleyes: The secondary sucked this season, but that doesn't mean that every player in the secondary sucks ass and has no future in the NFL.

Get somebody in here that knows what they're doing and can coach up some of the players. Some of the secondary guys we currently have most likely will be a part of this team's future whether we like it or not.

P.S.

If you're willing to give KJ a pass for being a rookie, well that's basically what Nolan is also. He was a second year rookie this season. So how can Kareem Jackson be worked with, but Nolan can't?

wagonhed
01-02-2011, 08:29 PM
Many of us have been saying this since the very beginning of the year. Completely typical of this bull**** coaching staff to make terrible personnel decisions. Horse****.

wagonhed
01-02-2011, 08:40 PM
You don't have to start to make your prescence felt. He's gotten spot duty against other teams & you heard nothing from him. Moreover we were still garbage back there giving up nearly 300 a game in the air & he was apart of that, however much he did play. There is noone back there that can be worked with for a starting spot except for KJ; And that's only b/c he's a rookie. & for all the plays he made they were still against garbage qbs.....that being said, if there is someone who obviously could be better for us & available.... get him.
Ugh this is such horse****. And I'm in a bad mood so I have no patience for it.

You think everyone in our secondary sucks yet you can't realize it's because we have terrible coaches. Every DB we have had has gotten worse since they've been here. That's not luck and it's not player skill. It's coaching.

Nolan should have been starting since game 1. Wilson isn't the answer. Rotating between Wilson and Nolan isn't the answer either and frankly it's ****ing stupid. Nolan could have had 7-8 INTs this year if he had been the starter and kept up the pace he established in the time he did play. That's a pretty ****ing big deal. On top of that he would have been able to actually LEARN THE SCHEME instead of having to rotate playing time. Safety is a ****ing complicated position, you can't just learn it instantly with limited reps. You expect Schaub to be able to run the offense while trading reps with Leinart each game?

Blaming the individual players is just pointless emotional spewage at this point. Those of you who like to engage in this kind of **** would just assume fire everyone on the defense so far as I can tell. Newsflash: Noone on the defense played well this year. I guess we need to release every last one of them and start over, huh? ****ing genius, really.

dickieb
01-02-2011, 09:54 PM
FWIW...I didn't see Bob on the field at the end of the game.

Yeah, but Rick smith was right by his side holding his binoculars with their pinkie fingers intertwined.

Carr Bombed
01-03-2011, 03:33 AM
If you're willing to give KJ a pass for being a rookie, well that's basically what Nolan is also. He was a second year rookie this season. So how can Kareem Jackson be worked with, but Nolan can't?

And if I had to be completely honest here...


I have more hope for Troy Nolan than I do Kareem Jackson. I didn't like the Jackson pick when we made it and I don't like it now. There's something about Nolan that I like, he's just always around the ball....if we can coach him up, he can be a ball hawk for us. Not every good player came into the league and hit the ground running, I think Nolan is going to be a good safety in this league....provided he gets good sound coaching (which is something this defense has lacked since it's inception.)

otisbean
01-03-2011, 06:14 AM
Three NFL starts is enough for you to decide a player has no future in the NFL?


Okay...

Also how can you blame him for that tipped ball to Britt. I thought it was another good play by him, just a bad bounce of the ball. The only thing that was, was another time the kid got his hands on a ball. If you get your hands on the ball enough, you're going to make plays and he has a knack for making plays. I think 3 picks in 3 starts and now a FR is making plays half the time.

I like Nolan as depth right now. The thing that concerns me a bit with him is speed. There were ALOT of times where we were in a 2 deep coverage and the safeties were late coming over helping the CBs over the top. We need a couple S that can cover some ground. I definitely want to keep him as depth though. As he learns the game his anticipation will improve and his speed will be less of an issue.

Mr teX
01-03-2011, 08:52 AM
Ugh this is such horse****. And I'm in a bad mood so I have no patience for it.

You think everyone in our secondary sucks yet you can't realize it's because we have terrible coaches. Every DB we have had has gotten worse since they've been here. That's not luck and it's not player skill. It's coaching.

Nolan should have been starting since game 1. Wilson isn't the answer. Rotating between Wilson and Nolan isn't the answer either and frankly it's ****ing stupid. Nolan could have had 7-8 INTs this year if he had been the starter and kept up the pace he established in the time he did play. That's a pretty ****ing big deal. On top of that he would have been able to actually LEARN THE SCHEME instead of having to rotate playing time. Safety is a ****ing complicated position, you can't just learn it instantly with limited reps. You expect Schaub to be able to run the offense while trading reps with Leinart each game?

Blaming the individual players is just pointless emotional spewage at this point. Those of you who like to engage in this kind of **** would just assume fire everyone on the defense so far as I can tell. Newsflash: Noone on the defense played well this year. I guess we need to release every last one of them and start over, huh? ****ing genius, really.


F-ing terrible. The only person doling out "emotional spewage" is you. You've got it in for the coaching staff so bad that you're letting a few ints against a couple of bad qbs fool you into thinking this guy is worthy of a starting position in an nfl secondary. You know, i was gonna come with this long drawn out post ripping your post to shreds but the product on the field speaks volumes. Anyone who can look at anyone in this secondary & think that anyone person is the answer to start anywhere...well, i've got some lake front property smack dab in the middle of the sahara i'd like to sell you.

Really, 7-8 ints huh. Jason Allen has what 3-4 since he's gotten here with us. Do you think he's a starting caliber cb in this league? Was it coaching that got him released in Miami too? Last year we thought Pollard was the answer at SS too. This year, he was exposed to the high heavens. A few years before that, it was Demps. You either have it or you don't in this league & I'm in no mood to be fooled again just b/c a guy made a few good plays in a few spot starts. Everyone keeps talking about wanting a "proven" HC or DC, well the same specificity applies to the safety spot. Well for once this organization need to go out & get a prototype, fast, ball hawking safety. Not an old past his prime retread, not a young project who might be able to patch it up & certainly not anyone currenty on this roster.

While it's true that some of these players will be part of the 2011 team, none should be starting & im still up in the air if any should even be consider for a starting role at this point.

HOU-TEX
01-03-2011, 09:06 AM
Personally, I don't think any players jobs are safe on defense. I'd hope the new DC comes in, trashes the depth chart and conducts his own personal scouting process throughout the offseason and TC to create a new depth chart.

False Start
01-03-2011, 09:12 AM
Personally, I don't think any players jobs are safe on defense. I'd hope the new DC comes in, trashes the depth chart and conducts his own personal scouting process throughout the offseason and TC to create a new depth chart.

That would be "traumatic." :heh:

HOU-TEX
01-03-2011, 09:20 AM
That would be "traumatic." :heh:

Yes, it would be traumatic, Bob, but sometimes we need to allow our sack to hang in order to be successfull. Ha

Señor Stan
01-03-2011, 09:53 AM
Plus I don't want to change my name... :bat:

Change it to something Kubiak related ...

You will never have to change it again. Never.

ubecool454
01-03-2011, 10:01 AM
Holy crap. Why wasn't this kid playing sooner? :bat:

The same thing happened with Foster last year...we had to wait until all was lost to find out that the guy was better than what we had starting in front of him. I thought Nolan should have replaced Wilson from day one and how much longer do I have to watch Okoye missing tackles and falling down?

beerlover
01-03-2011, 10:06 AM
The same thing happened with Foster last year...we had to wait until all was lost to find out that the guy was better than what we had starting in front of him. I thought Nolan should have replaced Wilson from day one and how much longer do I have to watch Okoye missing tackles and falling down?

Nolan played with Wilson. He is more of a SS than a FS, he filled in for Pollard.

powda
01-03-2011, 11:29 AM
Troy Nolan is someone we can work with? No one in our historically bad secondary deserves a free ride. Replace them all.

Nolan had ample opportunity all season to show something and waited till the last game to do anything other then blow a coverage or miss a tackle. I have waited for years to see the Texans draft a respectible safety but they dont believe in building that way and see the safety position as a matter of 2nd tier importance.

Guess what happens when you over value your secondary talent - 6-10. Dont make the mistake of thinking Nolan is ready.

free agency

1a = cb joseph johnson or Cromartie

Draft picks

1. cb harris
2. s moore
3. s black

Carr Bombed
01-03-2011, 11:42 AM
Troy Nolan is someone we can work with? No one in our historically bad secondary deserves a free ride. Replace them all.

Nolan had ample opportunity all season to show something and waited till the last game to do anything other then blow a coverage or miss a tackle. I have waited for years to see the Texans draft a respectable safety but they don't believe in building that way and see the safety position as a matter of 2nd tier importance.

Guess what happens when you over value your secondary talent - 6-10. Dont make the mistake of thinking Nolan is ready.

free agency

1a = cb joseph johnson or Cromartie

Draft picks

1. cb harris
2. s moore
3. s black

Yeah, I'm thinking of the old "throwing the baby out with the bath water" saying.

So you're solution is to start another 3 rookies in the secondary, because we saw how well that worked this season. :kubepalm:

Some of y'all are just speaking out in anger and you're not thinking logically. We're not going to dump every corner/safety we have on our team just because they were put in a position to fail. The truth of the matter is we can't evaluate anybody in the secondary until we get someone in here who knows what the hell they're doing. That's how bad our defensive scheme was...it caused EVERYBODY to fail, even players who were steals just a year before.

Also you make it sound like Nolan was just falling down all year and that simply was not the case. In his first season he made alot of plays for the amount of time he played and in other cases he made mistakes...which is what young guys do. Not everybody is Ed Reed and can come in here and hit the ground running and the truth of the matter is we have TWO safety spots to fill so even if you get someone through the draft I doubt you're going to find two rookies who can come in from day one and be a safer option than a player who now has a year of experience under his belt.


The solution here is not to just cut every player, that's short sided. The solution is to get somebody who knows what the **** he's doing in here and let him work with these guys and evaluate what he has, because I'm positive some are salvageable.

Mr teX
01-03-2011, 11:55 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking of the old "throwing the baby out with the bath water" saying.

So you're solution is to start another 3 rookies in the secondary, because we saw how well that worked this season. :kubepalm:


Some of y'all are just speaking out in anger and you're not thinking logically. We're not going to dump every corner/safety we have on our team just because they were put in a position to fail. The truth of the matter is we can't evaluate anybody in the secondary until we get someone in here who knows what the hell they're doing. That's how bad our defensive scheme was...it caused EVERYBODY to fail, even players who were steals just a year before.

Also you make it sound like Nolan was just falling down all year and that simply was not the case. In his first season he made alot of plays for the amount of time he played and in other cases he made mistakes...which is what young guys do. Not everybody is Ed Reed and can come in here and hit the ground running and the truth of the matter is we have TWO safety spots to fill so even if you get some through the draft I doubt you're going to find two rookies who can come in from day one and be a safer option than a player who now has a year of experience under his belt.


The solution here is not to just cut every player, that's short sided. The solution is to get somebody who knows what the **** he's doing in here and let him work with these guys and evaluate what he has, because I'm positive some are salvageable.


Yeah, & we've also been bamboozled into thinking we've got something or "a steal" only to find out the next year the player "stole" from us with the contract we gave him. Look i hear ya CB, i just would rather not even go into next year with this kind of mindset regarding the defense & especially the secondary. The whole engine needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. So he made a few plays.....that just helps him avoid being released before training camp. Come in & earn the job & show some improvement on the things that you struggled with last year ON YOUR OWN!!

Someone in this thread or another posed the idea that the new DC needs to come in & post a blank sheet of paper in the locker room as the depth chart...I'm thinking that's a pretty good idea right now.

powda
01-03-2011, 12:03 PM
So you're solution is to start another 3 rookies in the secondary, because we saw how well that worked this season. :kubepalm:



Did my post say anything about starters?

My solution involves free agency and young draft picks to compete with the talent on hand...

Sounds like you want to give them another chance next year and hope for the best. Yeah that sounds reasonable...did you watch the games this year?

Nolan got a lot of snaps this year. He may turn out to be an average starter down the road...but this season he was more of a problem then a solution like the rest of the secondary.

You can believe its all bad coaching if you want ,but they better get a quick infusion of talent back there if they plan to be respectible.

Carr Bombed
01-03-2011, 12:08 PM
Did my post say anything about starters?

My solution involves free agency and young draft picks to compete with the talent on hand...

Sounds like you want to give them another chance next year and hope for the best. Yeah that sounds reasonable...did you watch the games this year?

Nolan got a lot of snaps this year. He may turn out to be an average starter down the road...but this season he was more of a problem then a solution like the rest of the secondary.

You can believe its all bad coaching if you want ,but they better get a quick infusion of talent back there if they plan to be respectible.

First of all, I never said I didn't want to draft anybody or pick anybody up. :mariopalm:

I said we're not going to cut everybody in the secondary and not everybody in the secondary is a big steaming pile of crap and some can be worked with. See the thread title? Saying Nolan is a player that "can be worked with" is not me saying he's going to be the next Troy Polamalu. :rolleyes: Whether he becomes a starter or not isn't even the point, the point is he has enough talent and shows enough raw instincts that we don't need to pull the plug and send him packing yet. I think he has a future in this league.

Mr teX
01-03-2011, 12:17 PM
First of all, I never said I didn't want to draft anybody or pick anybody up. :mariopalm:

I said we're not going to cut everybody in the secondary and not everybody in the secondary is a big steaming pile of crap and some can be worked with. See the thread title? Saying Nolan is a player that "can be worked with" is not me saying he's going to be the next Troy Polamalu. :rolleyes: Whether he becomes a starter or not isn't even the point, the point is he has enough talent and shows enough raw instincts that we don't need to pull the plug and send him packing yet. I think he has a future in this league.

Yeah......most likely as a special teamer.

Carr Bombed
01-03-2011, 12:20 PM
Yeah......most likely as a special teamer.

Dude we get it, you think he sucks ass. I think he's a player, we'll see who's right in the upcoming seasons.

powda
01-03-2011, 12:24 PM
First of all, I never said I didn't want to draft anybody or pick anybody up. :mariopalm:.

No you were critical of me for suggesting they should use draft picks on the secondary. So which is it? Should we use picks or not?


I said we're not going to cut everybody in the secondary and not everybody in the secondary is a big steaming pile of crap and some can be worked with.

Your sugar coating the problem. Don't put frosting on our pile and call it choclate cake. Since the NFL began we currently have one of the top 5 worst pass defenses ever. EVER! Now i'm not suggesting we cut everyone ,but i wouldn't be upset if they did. The free ride should be over for players like molden,mccain,wilson.


See the thread title? Saying Nolan is a player that "can be worked with" is not me saying he's going to be the next Troy Polamalu. :rolleyes:

He doesn't have to be Troy Plamalu. At this point i would settle for average.

Carr Bombed
01-03-2011, 12:41 PM
No you were critical of me for suggesting they should use draft picks on the secondary. So which is it? Should we use picks or not?.

Well that's, because I misunderstood your post. I thought your only solution was to draft 2 more rookies and sign one FA



Your sugar coating the problem. Don't put frosting on our pile and call it choclate cake. Since the NFL began we currently have one of the top 5 worst pass defenses ever. EVER! Now i'm not suggesting we cut everyone ,but i wouldn't be upset if they did. The free ride should be over for players like molden,mccain,wilson.

I'm not sugar coating the problem, I'm trying to be realistic. I don't think everybody is a terd or not salvageable. I'd like to see what some players can do with good sound coaching. Nolan being the main one and I agree with you. As far as McCain, Molden, and Wilson go..they can all kick rocks.



He doesn't have to be Troy Plamalu. At this point i would settle for average.

Agreed.

Carr Bombed
08-27-2011, 08:41 PM
bump. :whip:

Troy Nolan is a playmaker. He's one of those players that's always around the ball.

stingray
08-27-2011, 08:44 PM
bump. :whip:

Troy Nolan is a playmaker. He's one of those players that's always around the ball.

Agreed. Let's see if Kubiak sees the same thing and gives him a shot. We can put Glover back at CB and Troy at free safety.

vupac1
08-27-2011, 08:59 PM
Agreed. Let's see if Kubiak sees the same thing and gives him a shot. We can put Glover back at CB and Troy at free safety.

LOL @ Kubiak having anything to do with defensive personel decisions... He has been completely dismissed from all duties away from HIS side of the ball (and I like it like that!)

Rey
08-27-2011, 09:14 PM
I don't remember who it was but I've debated Troy Nolan many times here.

Someone talking about nolans bad angles.

Ok I guess.

TexansFanatic
08-27-2011, 09:15 PM
Troy cemented his claim to a roster spot tonight. No two ways.

badboy
08-27-2011, 09:44 PM
I don't remember who it was but I've debated Troy Nolan many times here.

Someone talking about nolans bad angles.

Ok I guess.Rey I don't think angles had much to do with either of his INTs. The ball went right to him as did some last season. Nothing wroing with that because he still had to catch ball and do something with it. Sorta reminds me of Larry Bird being in the right spot. Gotta do something to be in "right place".

Rey
08-27-2011, 09:48 PM
Rey I don't think angles had much to do with either of his INTs. The ball went right to him as did some last season. Nothing wroing with that because he still had to catch ball and do something with it. Sorta reminds me of Larry Bird being in the right spot. Gotta do something to be in "right place".

I think you misunderstood my post. Was not saying that angles had anything to do with the int's.

But his first int he jumped in front of the receiver.

Pantherstang84
08-27-2011, 09:50 PM
Troy cemented his claim to a roster spot tonight. No two ways.

Roster spot? Hell after tonight how do you keep him out of your defensive rotation?

badboy
08-27-2011, 09:52 PM
I think you misunderstood my post. Was not saying that angles had anything to do with the int's.

But his first int he jumped in front of the receiver.Thought you were referring to others posts earlier in pre-season that he takes bad angles which he does.

Rey
08-27-2011, 09:55 PM
Thought you were referring to others posts earlier in pre-season that he takes bad angles which he does.

Yes I was. But I was not saying his picks showed good angles.

And I disagree that be takes bad angles.

srrono
08-27-2011, 10:05 PM
i like nolan too but his picks are a result of our new preasure defense rush the qb turnovers will come GO TEXANS

Playoffs
08-27-2011, 10:10 PM
Nolan is a thief -- he stole that interception away from J Jo.

Carr Bombed
08-27-2011, 10:25 PM
i like nolan too but his picks are a result of our new preasure defense rush the qb turnovers will come GO TEXANS

??? He did the same thing last season...

srrono
08-27-2011, 10:31 PM
im just saying in wade we trust, if it ainy broke dont fix it

El Tejano
08-27-2011, 11:02 PM
??? He did the same thing last season...

Two differences though.

A) He's got a pass rush that is making the QB get rid of the ball.

B) He's also got a CB who can man up his guy and let Nolan rome and play center field. And another Safety out there to help too.

Carr Bombed
08-27-2011, 11:14 PM
Two differences though.

A) He's got a pass rush that is making the QB get rid of the ball.

B) He's also got a CB who can man up his guy and let Nolan rome and play center field. And another Safety out there to help too.

I know...

That doesn't mean he didn't get picks and make plays last season.

gwallaia
08-27-2011, 11:36 PM
I was at a high school game tonight and DVR'd the Texan game. I've only watched the first half so far but isn't amazing how much better the secondary plays when there is pressure on the QB.

BullNation4Life
08-27-2011, 11:38 PM
I am all for Quin going back to CB and playing Nolan at FS, he is a ball hawk, always around the ball...

Make that move, and I believe you have all bases covered...

Carr Bombed
08-27-2011, 11:45 PM
I was at a high school game tonight and DVR'd the Texan game. I've only watched the first half so far but isn't amazing how much better the secondary plays when there is pressure on the QB.

Competent coaching helps as well.

gwallaia
08-27-2011, 11:48 PM
Competent coaching helps as well.

That too is part of the equation.

The Cush
08-28-2011, 12:02 AM
I missed the pick 6 but fortunately found the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWR7x5x_Gf4

b0ng
08-28-2011, 02:04 AM
Troy Nolan only gets picks in Cali.

SteveSlaton20
08-28-2011, 03:37 AM
He kinds of remind of Jairus Byrd, just always around the ball when it's up for grabs.

prostock101
08-28-2011, 07:31 AM
Hasn't Nolan played well in preseason and come gametime been just so so?

Rey
08-28-2011, 08:28 AM
Hasn't Nolan played well in preseason and come gametime been just so so?

I think last year he had more ints than both the starting safeties combined.

Lucky
08-28-2011, 10:17 AM
I am all for Quin going back to CB and playing Nolan at FS, he is a ball hawk, always around the ball...

Make that move, and I believe you have all bases covered...
I don't know about that in the base defense, but maybe in the nickel. None of the nickel CBs have wowed me, and Quin is probably the best we have at covering the slot.

ccdude730
08-28-2011, 11:25 AM
I don't know about that in the base defense, but maybe in the nickel. None of the nickel CBs have wowed me, and Quin is probably the best we have at covering the slot.

How did Harris do? I thought he had the nickel locked up. And thinking about it now, I wished I had payed more attention to who was on the field. But I was just so giddy seeing our team play.

Lucky
08-28-2011, 11:32 AM
How did Harris do? I thought he had the nickel locked up.
Brice McCain has been the first CB off the bench and playing the slot receiver. He's been OK, and made some plays. Just too many bad memories of McCain for me to endorse him. Harris has only played with the 2nd and 3rd string, from what I've seen.

Edit: Here is a quote from Kubiak (http://blog.chron.com/sportsjustice/2011/08/gary-kubiak-seems-to-be-telling-us-that-kareem-jackson-will-be-keeping-his-starting-job/) suggesting that Quin could still play CB in the nickel defense.

At the start of camp, it appeared rookie Brandon Harris was penciled in to be the nickle corner. Now coaches also have other options.

“We are going to play the guy inside that we think plays the best inside,” Kubiak said. “There are some guys that are strictly outside players and some guys that play the nickel really well. We’ve got some options and one of our options continues to be Glover (Quin) because he playing the safety position but he’s played a lot of corner. He’s a tackler, he can play in the slot, he can cover and he tackles well. We have some options there but we’ll see how it pans out.”

thunderkyss
08-28-2011, 02:07 PM
But his first int he jumped in front of the receiver.

Not to take anything away from Nolan, but I don't know that he jumped in front of the receiver. I think the QB was watching the receiver run across the field, didn't see Nolan standing there.

Rey
08-28-2011, 02:12 PM
Not to take anything away from Nolan, but I don't know that he jumped in front of the receiver. I think the QB was watching the receiver run across the field, didn't see Nolan standing there.

Ok.

I disagree though.

He was in good position and when the ball was thrown he jumped in front of the pass. Whether or not the qb saw him standing there has no bearing on Nolan being in good position and ready to make a play.

With all the bad safety play we've had on this team I don't understand taking away from a guy that has made plays.

Yankee_In_TX
08-28-2011, 02:15 PM
I was at a high school game tonight and DVR'd the Texan game. I've only watched the first half so far but isn't amazing how much better the secondary plays when there is pressure on the QB.

Amazing what happens when your safeties don't have to play corner every play!

Lucky
08-28-2011, 02:19 PM
I think the QB was watching the receiver run across the field, didn't see Nolan standing there.
Kaepernick said that he saw Nolan (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Texans-at-49ers/0b6afc4e-b2ab-4fe7-972f-02b5e95ee533), threw the ball anyway.

(on what happened on the interception and if he was just trying to get the guy and didn’t see the defender cut in front) “No, actually I saw the safety. I thought that [WR] Braylon [Edwards] was going to be able to cross his face before he got there. Just a bad judgment on my part.”

thunderkyss
08-28-2011, 02:20 PM
Ok.

I disagree though.

He was in good position and when the ball was thrown he jumped in front of the pass. Whether or not the qb saw him standing there has no bearing on Nolan being in good position and ready to make a play.

With all the bad safety play we've had on this team I don't understand taking away from a guy that has made plays.

Watch it again, he didn't have to jump in front of the receiver, he was already in front of the receiver.

It was still a good play, he had to catch the ball & that was a great return.

I'm good with Nolan getting more playing time.

But the thing about him taking bad angles was about his open field tackling... last line of defense & all.

thunderkyss
08-28-2011, 02:22 PM
Kaepernick said that he saw Nolan (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Texans-at-49ers/0b6afc4e-b2ab-4fe7-972f-02b5e95ee533), threw the ball anyway.

OK, that makes more sense.... he thought Edwards would cross in front.. maybe Braylon didn't see him.

Rey
08-28-2011, 02:24 PM
Watch it again, he didn't have to jump in front of the receiver, he was already in front of the receiver.

It was still a good play, he had to catch the ball & that was a great return.

I'm good with Nolan getting more playing time.

But the thing about him taking bad angles was about his open field tackling... last line of defense & all.

I know what the bad angles thing was about and I don't buy it.

You're making it seem as if Nolan just stood still and the qb threw the ball to him.

He was in good position and he came down in front of the receiver and made the play.

The Pencil Neck
08-28-2011, 02:26 PM
Not to take anything away from Nolan, but I don't know that he jumped in front of the receiver. I think the QB was watching the receiver run across the field, didn't see Nolan standing there.

Check the Niner's quotes.

Harbaugh asked Kaepernik (sp) if he saw "the safety" and he said he did. But Kaepernik expected Edwards to cut in front of "the safety" to get the ball.

Either way, I'll take it.

Rey
08-28-2011, 02:30 PM
Kaepernick said that he saw Nolan (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-3/Quotes-Texans-at-49ers/0b6afc4e-b2ab-4fe7-972f-02b5e95ee533), threw the ball anyway.

Basically he thought Braylon would get there before Nolan would.

Lucky
08-28-2011, 02:34 PM
OK, that makes more sense.... he thought Edwards would cross in front.. maybe Braylon didn't see him.
As Tim Ryan (Niners TV analyst) said, Kaepernick just stared down Edwards. It was a good read by Nolan, who has only one year of actual NFL play under his belt. Troy is getting quality coaching for the first time in his NFL career. I'm pretty excited about how Nolan lis playing, plus he seems like he lost some weight and is faster.

powda
08-29-2011, 01:58 PM
bump. :whip:

Troy Nolan is a playmaker. He's one of those players that's always around the ball.

So a preseason game against Alex Smith validates your argument? Dont know if you noticed but Wade Phillips has him playing as a back up.

??? He did the same thing last season...

No. He didn't. 49 tackles / 1 sack / 3 int's


Intresting to note I mentioned both Jonathan Joseph and Brandon Harris earlier in this thread. (dated January)

Rey
08-29-2011, 02:17 PM
So a preseason game against Alex Smith validates your argument? Dont know if you noticed but Wade Phillips has him playing as a back up.



No. He didn't. 49 tackles / 1 sack / 3 int's


Intresting to note I mentioned both Jonathan Joseph and Brandon Harris earlier in this thread. (dated January)

3 Int's is pretty good for a guy that wasn't even a full time starter. Not exactly sure how that is disputing what Carr Bombed said last year...

When they guy gets playing time, pre-season or regular, he has gotten some turnovers....

Kinda like he did in college...

powda
08-29-2011, 02:38 PM
3 Int's is pretty good for a guy that wasn't even a full time starter.

When they guy gets playing time, pre-season or regular, he has gotten some turnovers....



He played in all 16 Games and started at least 2 games that i can find.

37 tackles
12 assist
13 of those tackles are special teams tackles

Nolan was apart of one of the most historically most inept secondaries ever and couldnt beat out Pollard or Wilson for more playing time. Your watching the stat sheet and ignoring all the missed tackles and blown assignments. I know everyones drinking the nolan koolaid right now but the blunt truth is : last year he wasnt good. Hope he plays better and I'd love to see him play well but im glad the texans acquired some safety help this offseason.

Rey
08-29-2011, 03:20 PM
He played in all 16 Games and started at least 2 games that i can find.

37 tackles
12 assist
13 of those tackles are special teams tackles

Nolan was apart of one of the most historically most inept secondaries ever and couldnt beat out Pollard or Wilson for more playing time. Your watching the stat sheet and ignoring all the missed tackles and blown assignments. I know everyones drinking the nolan koolaid right now but the blunt truth is : last year he wasnt good. Hope he plays better and I'd love to see him play well but im glad the texans acquired some safety help this offseason.


Played in every game doesn't mean that he played anything other than a few special teams plays in a game. And I clearly said "wasn't a full time starter"...Starting 2 games is your argument?

I won't even adress the rest of your rant because it had nothing to do with my post.

thunderkyss
08-29-2011, 04:54 PM
??? He did the same thing last season...


No. He didn't. 49 tackles / 1 sack / 3 int's


I think he meant that he did the same thing in the preseason.

When the games mattered, not so much.


Carr Bombed
08-29-2011, 04:58 PM
I think he meant that he did the same thing in the preseason.

When the games mattered, not so much.



He did the same thing DURING THE REGULAR SEASON. This thread wasn't starting during last year's preseason...

thunderkyss
08-29-2011, 05:06 PM
He did the same thing DURING THE REGULAR SEASON. This thread wasn't starting during last year's preseason...

So, is it your position that Nolan is ready to start for an NFL team?

Rey
08-29-2011, 06:13 PM
So, is it your position that Nolan is ready to start for an NFL team?

I think he is ready to get more playing time...

I would not mind seeing the safeties being kept fresh and/or moving Glover down to the Nickel and bringing in Nolan in those situations...

Carr Bombed
08-29-2011, 10:22 PM
So, is it your position that Nolan is ready to start for an NFL team?

IDK, is Bernard Pollard slated to be a starter for a NFL team? If so...Nolan can start for one or two teams...

What's laughable is how fans can write this guy off after spending his rookie year on IR and then after being thrown into the mess that he was last season. Despite all of that he still made plays and has made plays when given a chance to play. This guy is going to make fools out of a lot of people.

vupac1
08-29-2011, 11:05 PM
Nolan was apart of one of the most historically most inept secondaries ever and couldnt beat out Pollard or Wilson for more playing time.

Which included a historicaly inept DC, scheme, defensive philosophy, talent evaluation, etc.


Does Glover need to be kicked to the curb as well for participating in that same secondary??

Things change, players can often turn their careers around much less bounce back from one year of horrific coaching

thunderkyss
08-29-2011, 11:07 PM
IDK, is Bernard Pollard slated to be a starter for a NFL team? If so...Nolan can start for one or two teams...

What's laughable is how fans can write this guy off after spending his rookie year on IR and then after being thrown into the mess that he was last season. Despite all of that he still made plays and has made plays when given a chance to play. This guy is going to make fools out of a lot of people.

Because I don't think he is ready to start?

I'm not saying the Texans should give up on him, or that he won't be a player. But the guy made just as many mistakes & bad plays as the rest of our defense in 2010. The Texans got rid of the two people that were in front of him & moved two more in their place.

So I am not alone in my assessment of Troy Nolan. He was a seventh round pick, spent a year on IR, & played like a rookie (which he was) last year.

powda
08-30-2011, 08:22 AM
What's laughable is how fans can write this guy off after spending his rookie year on IR and then after being thrown into the mess that he was last season.

No, whats laughable is that suddenly hes the man of the hour because he had 2 interceptions on Alex freaking Smith and Collin Kapernick.


Starting 2 games is your argument?


Your not paying attention. He played in 16 games. You made a comment about 3 interceptions being good. Congadulations Troy you couldnt beat out Eugene Wilson or Bernard Pollard on a historically bad secondary last year and your not going to beat out Manning and Quin this year.


Which included a historicaly inept DC, scheme, defensive philosophy, talent evaluation, etc.


And Troy Nolan who was as much a part of the problem as anyone else.


Now i'm not arguing to cut the guy. Dont misunderstand me. But some of you guys want to crown him the next Ronnie Lott. In the infamous words of John Harris, "turn the film on bro!"

b0ng
08-30-2011, 08:40 AM
IDK, is Bernard Pollard slated to be a starter for a NFL team? If so...Nolan can start for one or two teams...

What's laughable is how fans can write this guy off after spending his rookie year on IR and then after being thrown into the mess that he was last season. Despite all of that he still made plays and has made plays when given a chance to play. This guy is going to make fools out of a lot of people.

Not really, he pulled 2 picks in the Raider game against Gradkowski, and then he got one against the Trent Edwards Jaguars. He played last year and there was really no discernible difference between him and Eugene Wilson. Yeah, Nolan could probably start for 1 or 2 teams this year because 1 team will have the worst secondary unit in the league and he might (could? possibly? maybe?) be a starter for them.

If I remember right, he started in the Giants game and that was one of Eli's best games last season, so don't get upset if not too many people share the sentiment cause he got two picks off of some bad QB's (again).

BigBull17
08-30-2011, 08:50 AM
Not really, he pulled 2 picks in the Raider game against Gradkowski, and then he got one against the Trent Edwards Jaguars. He played last year and there was really no discernible difference between him and Eugene Wilson. Yeah, Nolan could probably start for 1 or 2 teams this year because 1 team will have the worst secondary unit in the league and he might (could? possibly? maybe?) be a starter for them.

If I remember right, he started in the Giants game and that was one of Eli's best games last season, so don't get upset if not too many people share the sentiment cause he got two picks off of some bad QB's (again).

Fair enough, but I am ok giving people a pass on last year, since we had a cardboard cut out of a defensive coordinator instead of an actual DC. Nolan has a nose for the football, and seems to be a playmaker. I like the idea of him coming in on nickle or dime packages and having GQ play nickle.

Which included a historicaly inept DC, scheme, defensive philosophy, talent evaluation, etc.


Does Glover need to be kicked to the curb as well for participating in that same secondary??

Things change, players can often turn their careers around much less bounce back from one year of horrific coaching

If I had to venture a guess, Frank Bush may be one of the worst DC's I have ever seen on an NFL team. It was the biggest joke of a scheme I have ever seen in all my years of football.

DocBar
09-03-2011, 02:21 PM
The Texans were awful defending the pass last season, so it is no wonder the secondary will have an entirely new look in 2011. We all know about the club's two big-ticket free-agent signings, CB Johnathan Joseph and FS Danieal Manning, both of whom will start immediately. We also have discussed cornerback-turned-strong safety Glover Quin, who has made a very smooth transition during training camp. But word is the Texans' nickel sub package has undergone a transformation. Quin, the team's best cornerback the past two seasons, will serve as the nickel back, with S Troy Nolan coming off the bench to replace Quin at strong safety. Nolan, a part-time player last season who tied for the team lead in interceptions (three), has had a great camp and is always around the football. CB Brice McCain, the team's nickel back the past two seasons, will have to find other ways to get on the field.LINK (The Texans were awful defending the pass last season, so it is no wonder the secondary will have an entirely new look in 2011. We all know about the club's two big-ticket free-agent signings, CB Johnathan Joseph and FS Danieal Manning, both of whom will start immediately. We also have discussed cornerback-turned-strong safety Glover Quin, who has made a very smooth transition during training camp. But word is the Texans' nickel sub package has undergone a transformation. Quin, the team's best cornerback the past two seasons, will serve as the nickel back, with S Troy Nolan coming off the bench to replace Quin at strong safety. Nolan, a part-time player last season who tied for the team lead in interceptions (three), has had a great camp and is always around the football. CB Brice McCain, the team's nickel back the past two seasons, will have to find other ways to get on the field.)

Carr Bombed
09-03-2011, 03:22 PM
The Texans were awful defending the pass last season, so it is no wonder the secondary will have an entirely new look in 2011. We all know about the club's two big-ticket free-agent signings, CB Johnathan Joseph and FS Danieal Manning, both of whom will start immediately. We also have discussed cornerback-turned-strong safety Glover Quin, who has made a very smooth transition during training camp. But word is the Texans' nickel sub package has undergone a transformation. Quin, the team's best cornerback the past two seasons, will serve as the nickel back, with S Troy Nolan coming off the bench to replace Quin at strong safety. Nolan, a part-time player last season who tied for the team lead in interceptions (three), has had a great camp and is always around the football. CB Brice McCain, the team's nickel back the past two seasons, will have to find other ways to get on the field.
LINK

:rolleyes: Yep, he sucks... But hey, let's judge the guy after being surrounded by absolute crap players and crap coaching during his first season playing in the NFL :kubepalm:

thunderkyss
09-03-2011, 03:44 PM
:rolleyes: Yep, he sucks... But hey, let's judge the guy after being surrounded by absolute crap players and crap coaching during his first season playing in the NFL :kubepalm:

Are we talking about Nolan or Kareem?


:kitten:

Carr Bombed
09-03-2011, 04:26 PM
Are we talking about Nolan or Kareem?


:kitten:

Kareem was one of the crap players surrounding Nolan. Sorry, but I'm not even going to try to defend a player who can't even run and stay upright at the same time.

DocBar
09-03-2011, 04:38 PM
Kareem was one of the crap players surrounding Nolan. Sorry, but I'm not even going to try to defend a player who can't even run and stay upright at the same time.

:roflcopter:

thunderkyss
09-03-2011, 05:35 PM
Kareem was one of the crap players surrounding Nolan. Sorry, but I'm not even going to try to defend a player who can't even run and stay upright at the same time.

Lemme see...... that crap player will be starting in 2011.

Another of those crap players is being converted to start ahead of Troy Nolan

And a third guy was signed during the off season to play in front of Troy Nolan....


hmm...

Rey
09-03-2011, 05:57 PM
Not really, he pulled 2 picks in the Raider game against Gradkowski, and then he got one against the Trent Edwards Jaguars. He played last year and there was really no discernible difference between him and Eugene Wilson. Yeah, Nolan could probably start for 1 or 2 teams this year because 1 team will have the worst secondary unit in the league and he might (could? possibly? maybe?) be a starter for them.

If I remember right, he started in the Giants game and that was one of Eli's best games last season, so don't get upset if not too many people share the sentiment cause he got two picks off of some bad QB's (again).

Do you discount everyone's INT's against subpar QB's or just Nolan's?

Rey
09-03-2011, 05:59 PM
Lemme see...... that crap player will be starting in 2011.

Another of those crap players is being converted to start ahead of Troy Nolan

And a third guy was signed during the off season to play in front of Troy Nolan....


hmm...

Nolan was a 7th round pick.

If he is ever a starter he will have to be exceptional whereas earlier draft picks tend to be given more opportunity to succeed.

HJam72
09-03-2011, 06:02 PM
Kareem was one of the crap players surrounding Nolan. Sorry, but I'm not even going to try to defend a player who can't even run and stay upright at the same time.

We should really give KJ some gum and see what happens.

...or maybe one of those tacos like Shaq eats...

Maybe he'll stay upright.

foo82
09-04-2011, 11:20 AM
Insert non-original joke about Kareem falling down and not getting back up.

Old yet?

Carr Bombed
09-04-2011, 11:38 AM
Insert non-original joke about Kareem falling down and not getting back up.

Old yet?

Nope...because that is funny as hell, because it's true. What actually got old was how many times I had to watch him fall down on the field. Yeah that got REAL OLD, I definitely got tired of watching that. :rolleyes:

Carr Bombed
09-04-2011, 11:42 AM
Lemme see...... that crap player will be starting in 2011.

Another of those crap players is being converted to start ahead of Troy Nolan

And a third guy was signed during the off season to play in front of Troy Nolan....


hmm...

You're joking right? ....and despite all of what you typed above, Troy Nolan still has worked his way on to the field. So how exactly does the above help your argument?


hmm...

foo82
09-04-2011, 02:53 PM
Nope...because that is funny as hell, because it's true. What actually got old was how many times I had to watch him fall down on the field. Yeah that got REAL OLD, I definitely got tired of watching that. :rolleyes:

Except I saw Allen fall down quite a bit as well. Only difference was there was a featured soundbite on 610. It's funny when some person of some authority points something else and every sheep just blindly follows. He sucked badly in the first half of the season and improved in the second half.

Still, it stuck and now everyone "remembers" seeing KJ fall down all the time, even though 80% of what they remember occured in the first four weeks.

DocBar
09-04-2011, 02:54 PM
Except I saw Allen fall down quite a bit as well. Only difference was there was a featured soundbite on 610. It's funny when some person of some authority points something else and every sheep just blindly follows. He sucked badly in the first half of the season and improved in the second half.

Still, it stuck and now everyone "remembers" seeing KJ fall down all the time, even though 80% of what they remember occurs in the first four weeks.76Texan, is that you???

Rey
09-04-2011, 03:29 PM
Except I saw Allen fall down quite a bit as well. Only difference was there was a featured soundbite on 610. It's funny when some person of some authority points something else and every sheep just blindly follows. He sucked badly in the first half of the season and improved in the second half.

Still, it stuck and now everyone "remembers" seeing KJ fall down all the time, even though 80% of what they remember occured in the first four weeks.

I dont remember Kareem falling down any more than any other football player.

But as far as his improvement in the second half of the season, I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that he had his role reduced.

thunderkyss
09-04-2011, 04:45 PM
But as far as his improvement in the second half of the season, I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that he had his role reduced.

I don't know that his role was reduced. Playing time, snaps...... but it's not like they reduced him to nickel or dime.

badboy
09-04-2011, 05:01 PM
New season with much better coaches. If we can take a 7th and make him productive let's give him a break. If I can be patient with a #1 (TJ, KJ, Okoye, David Carr) I can be patient with a safety who got INTs and I really don't care how he gets 'em. I am more concrned over why Harris is evidently not doing enough to start at nickle.

thunderkyss
09-04-2011, 05:14 PM
New season with much better coaches. If we can take a 7th and make him productive let's give him a break. If I can be patient with a #1 (TJ, KJ, Okoye, David Carr) I can be patient with a safety who got INTs and I really don't care how he gets 'em. I am more concrned over why Harris is evidently not doing enough to start at nickle.

Good question. Nolan is producing well enough to keep a 2nd round pick off the field.


& Just for the record, I've got nothing against Nolan at all. I support all our Texans & I like to think I support them all equally. If we're going to cut Nolan some slack because of the coaching staff & the quality of the players around him, why not afford Kareem the same?

I'd have loved to see Nolan play more last season, the safeties & the strategy used to deploy those safeties was a big part of what was wrong with our secondary.

BigBull17
09-05-2011, 08:49 PM
I dont remember Kareem falling down any more than any other football player.

But as far as his improvement in the second half of the season, I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that he had his role reduced.

Really? Kareem looked like he had narcolepsie last year.

Rey
09-05-2011, 09:43 PM
Really? Kareem looked like he had narcolepsie last year.

Only play I remember an epic fail of a fall down was against Roy Williams.

Other than that, I don't remember him falling more than any our other db's.

When I heard the 610 thing I thought it was funny, but I never really got the whole Kareem Jackson fell again thing.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that. Out of all the bad plays he had last year I didn't think him falling down was a major issue. Jmo.

Carr Bombed
09-05-2011, 10:18 PM
Except I saw Allen fall down quite a bit as well. Only difference was there was a featured soundbite on 610. It's funny when some person of some authority points something else and every sheep just blindly follows. He sucked badly in the first half of the season and improved in the second half.

Still, it stuck and now everyone "remembers" seeing KJ fall down all the time, even though 80% of what they remember occured in the first four weeks.

LMAO....umm I don't listen to 610 :kubepalm:


So no, I'm not some blind sheep. I respond on what "I see" (hence why I started this thread after watching Nolan), which is why I don't give any credence to what you type, because it certainly doesn't support anything I saw last season.

BigBull17
09-06-2011, 07:53 AM
Only play I remember an epic fail of a fall down was against Roy Williams.

Other than that, I don't remember him falling more than any our other db's.

When I heard the 610 thing I thought it was funny, but I never really got the whole Kareem Jackson fell again thing.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that. Out of all the bad plays he had last year I didn't think him falling down was a major issue. Jmo.

Due to the shuffle technique all of our DBS fell more than most, but KJ fell more than all of them. He fell vs the Jets once really bad. But, I'm ok with giving him a little patience. Hell, all of our guys deserves a break, the Frank Bush effect

leebigeztx
09-06-2011, 08:37 AM
Don't get the fascination with nolan. He didn't lok good last year except for 1 game. If he were this guy, he would be on the field a lot more.

BigBull17
09-06-2011, 08:46 AM
Don't get the fascination with nolan. He didn't lok good last year except for 1 game. If he were this guy, he would be on the field a lot more.

He looked better than Pollard and Wilson, and he was basically a rookie. He's a guy who can tackle and has a nose for the ball. It's something you don't always see on the Texans.

thunderkyss
09-06-2011, 09:29 AM
He looked better than Pollard and Wilson, and he was basically a rookie. He's a guy who can tackle and has a nose for the ball. It's something you don't always see on the Texans.

Yes & no.

In coverage (pretty important for a safety) he looked as good if not better than Pollard & Wilson. But as far as tackling.... being the last line of defense, this is where people are talking about him taking bad angles. Pollard & Wilson were both better than Nolan in this aspect of the Safety's game.

BigBull17
09-06-2011, 09:57 AM
Yes & no.

In coverage (pretty important for a safety) he looked as good if not better than Pollard & Wilson. But as far as tackling.... being the last line of defense, this is where people are talking about him taking bad angles. Pollard & Wilson were both better than Nolan in this aspect of the Safety's game.

I'D rather have the safety that can cover and doesn't release guys to the imaginary next level than the two guys who basically did nothing. Pollard talked way more than his game actually produced and Wilson was awful in all facets of the game. Plus Nolan seems to be there when a ball takes a funky bounce and I'm willing to see what we has there.

infantrycak
09-06-2011, 10:55 AM
Only play I remember an epic fail of a fall down was against Roy Williams.

Other than that, I don't remember him falling more than any our other db's.

When I heard the 610 thing I thought it was funny, but I never really got the whole Kareem Jackson fell again thing.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see that. Out of all the bad plays he had last year I didn't think him falling down was a major issue. Jmo.

I agree with you. Every DB falls some. I didn't notice KJ fall significantly more than most but it has become a mantra or running joke and once something like that sticks it is almost impossible to eradicate. Unfortunately there are no stats to compare like for drops.

76Texan
09-06-2011, 11:20 AM
Kareem was one of the crap players surrounding Nolan. Sorry, but I'm not even going to try to defend a player who can't even run and stay upright at the same time.

Nope...because that is funny as hell, because it's true. What actually got old was how many times I had to watch him fall down on the field. Yeah that got REAL OLD, I definitely got tired of watching that. :rolleyes:

Due to the shuffle technique all of our DBS fell more than most, but KJ fell more than all of them. He fell vs the Jets once really bad. But, I'm ok with giving him a little patience. Hell, all of our guys deserves a break, the Frank Bush effect

I've already shown in the following thread that Allen fell down more times than Jackson. Bigbull17, you probably quit reading the thread in the middle.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83858&highlight=Allen%27s+plays

These were from the time Allen was with the Dolphins early last year (5 games plus one half plus one half) and do not include the bad plays and the falling down during Allen's time with the Texans last year.

And Bigbull, I think you remember incorrectly.
My notes do not show that Jackson fell down against the Jets.
(And I have gone through the play by play several times; I even had a thread analyzing that game a few months ago.)

Also, Allen fell down 3 times this PS (twice in coverage and once during ST play) and Jackson none.

Yes DocBar, I'm here and as much as I hate to come back to this point, I just can't leave it alone.

Allen fell down many more times than Jackson last year and sucked worse than Jackson last year.

Deal with it! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Heck, if you like humour, I can even show you Jason doing an Allencopter... Real pretty I tell ya' :kitten:

BigBull17
09-06-2011, 12:12 PM
On Santonio Holes touchdown he just randomly falls. I have also chanted the Mantra that I want to give poeple a chance cause they are in a real system now. That being said, last year was a train wreck and no one is immune to the verbal feedback.


EDIT Just looked it up and McCain was stumblina on that play. My bad.

76Texan
09-06-2011, 12:29 PM
On Santonio Holes touchdown he just randomly falls. I have also chanted the Mantra that I want to give poeple a chance cause they are in a real system now. That being said, last year was a train wreck and no one is immune to the verbal feedback.

No, it was McCain who fell down; Nolan also fell down on that TD in the third quarter.

On Holmes' 2nd TD (in OT), Jackson was the only one with good coverage.
Both Quin and Allen were beaten.

Rey
09-06-2011, 12:47 PM
Don't get the fascination with nolan. He didn't lok good last year except for 1 game. If he were this guy, he would be on the field a lot more.

I think Nolan is someone you work into the game on passing downs. I wouldn't start him over what we have now, but to say he only looked good in one game is a bit unfair, (1) because he actually had two good games (2) everyone probably looked a little worse than they actually are last year due to scheme and coaching (3) he was not a starter and didn't get as many opportunities (4) he was a rookie as far as playing


I think the taking bad angles on ball carriers is bologna but that's jmo.

BigBull17
09-06-2011, 12:49 PM
I think Nolan is someone you work into the game on passing downs. I wouldn't start him over what we have now, but to say he only looked good in one game is a bit unfair, (1) because he actually had two good games (2) everyone probably looked a little worse than they actually are last year dye to scheme and coaching (3) he was not a starter and didn't get as many opportunities (4) he was a rookie as far as playing


I think the taking bad angles on ball carriers is bologna but that's jmo.

One idea I have heard is Nolan as a Safety on nickle situations and GQ in the slot. I can be ok with that.

foo82
09-08-2011, 12:30 AM
LMAO....umm I don't listen to 610 :kubepalm:


So no, I'm not some blind sheep. I respond on what "I see" (hence why I started this thread after watching Nolan), which is why I don't give any credence to what you type, because it certainly doesn't support anything I saw last season.

Facepalms make you right.

No, someone posted up the Kareem Jackson falling down link in week 3? and it caught like wildfire. He fell some more the following week, and now suddenly everyone starts to pay attention to whenever he falls down. People start commenting on it everywhere.

It is a sheep effect. Everyone on this board complains about it, and it becomes an aha! moment every time you see him fall. 76Texan mentions it, but I did not see him fall any more than any other dbs. I actually thought he was one of our better corners in the second half of the season (although the bar was set pretty low).

Btw, you see what you want to see.

Kareem Jackson falls down - I see!!!
Someone else falls down - I think I see a number twentysomething. Must be 25.

I concede the point that Kareem Jackson fell.
Are you going to tell me that the other corners did not fall at the same frequency? Or are you just going to claim 76Texan is simply wrong because of his interpretation of what falling down is?