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thunderkyss
12-31-2010, 10:43 AM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach? What if Andre told the Texans he would demand a trade if they dumped Kubiak?

What if that's the only reason Kubiak is still here?

eriadoc
12-31-2010, 10:44 AM
What if a frog had wings?

He wouldn't bump his ass when he jumped.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-31-2010, 10:46 AM
I would immediately have Andre tested for illegal drugs.

CloakNNNdagger
12-31-2010, 10:47 AM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach? What if Andre told the Texans he would demand a trade if they dumped Kubiak?

What if that's the only reason Kubiak is still here?

That type decision tree would be an even sadder state of affairs than what I am now envisioning.

HTown2ATX
12-31-2010, 10:52 AM
That type decision tree would be an even sadder state of affairs than what I am now envisioning.

Correct.

Also, I think Andre likes winning.

Somthing that so far has not been brought by :kubepalm:

Nor will it be brought by :kubepalm: and :wadepalm: IMO but hope I am wrong.

Lucky
12-31-2010, 11:00 AM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach?
He wouldn't say that. This guy played for Joe Pendry and with David Carr, and never said a peep. What I am worried about is wasting another year of this future HOFers career. I'm also worried about him asking for a trade, if the Texans lose again next year. You can see on his face his disgust with the situation.

There's no positive spin from McNair's incompetent decision to keep Kubiak. It's bad enough that we are getting dumped on by the owner. Please, no more bogus spin.

Yesterday
12-31-2010, 11:05 AM
Andre would never say that, dumb thread.

thunderkyss
12-31-2010, 11:13 AM
Andre would never say that, dumb thread.

dumb reply, yours & everyone else who has trouble reading. I didn't ask if Andre would say it, I said what if he did.

it's an attempt to get the conversation going in a different direction around here.

gary
12-31-2010, 11:25 AM
Johnson would not say that I just don't think he is a very public person.

Pantherstang84
12-31-2010, 11:30 AM
dumb reply, yours & everyone else who has trouble reading. I didn't ask if Andre would say it, I said what if he did.

it's an attempt to get the conversation going in a different direction around here.

What if my Aunt had balls?

BetaV1
12-31-2010, 11:33 AM
Lovely. TK proposes a pretty thought-provoking hypothetical to generate discussion and rather than answer said hypothetical, people just duck the question altogether.

TK must just be another hired goon for the McNair PR machine. :fingergun:

Thorn
12-31-2010, 11:33 AM
If a cat could bark, would it chase cats?

If a snake could talk, would it be offering apples?

Thorn
12-31-2010, 11:36 AM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach? What if Andre told the Texans he would demand a trade if they dumped Kubiak?

What if that's the only reason Kubiak is still here?

Well, to be serious about your question, AJ wouldn't do this. But if he did, I don't think it would change anyone's mind. McNair is gonna do what he's gonna do.

Doppelganger
12-31-2010, 11:38 AM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach? What if Andre told the Texans he would demand a trade if they dumped Kubiak?

What if that's the only reason Kubiak is still here?

I would immediately trade him for a couple of first rounders. Players do not dictate who the coach is. If you allow one player to do so, other, lesser players will do that and undermine the coach's power.

As much as I like AJ, no one person is above the team.

Rey
12-31-2010, 11:46 AM
I don't understand what kind of conversation this is supposed to generate other than the replies that have already been given.

Lucky
12-31-2010, 11:53 AM
dumb reply, yours & everyone else who has trouble reading.
Sorry, but this thread has received the respect it deserves. What if Napoleon had B-1 bombers at Waterloo?

Get real.

thunderkyss
12-31-2010, 12:22 PM
That type decision tree would be an even sadder state of affairs than what I am now envisioning.

Thank you for at least responding to the question asked. I agree... then we'd really know how screwed up this organization is.

thunderkyss
12-31-2010, 12:26 PM
I would immediately trade him for a couple of first rounders. Players do not dictate who the coach is. If you allow one player to do so, other, lesser players will do that and undermine the coach's power.

As much as I like AJ, no one person is above the team.

I hear what you're saying. But the premise here (sorry if I did not explicitly state it)..... is that it's a done deal, what if it is going down this way, because Andre says so.

I agree with you, & it appears most people in this thread (even though they hadn't said as much) would believe it's a pretty screwed up deal, a player deciding if it's time for coach K to go..... almost as bad as a coach hirign a GM.

So let's throw that question out. What do you think, if McNair's only reason for keeping Kubiak, is because the players like him?

CretorFrigg
12-31-2010, 12:26 PM
Why do I get the feeling this thread was made solely to rile us up?

:rake:

Rey
12-31-2010, 12:43 PM
So let's throw that question out. What do you think, if McNair's only reason for keeping Kubiak, is because the players like him?

I just can't believe that McNair would run his franchise like that...

That's the kind of decision an insecure twelve year old makes...

brakos82
12-31-2010, 03:45 PM
What if Bill farted in Japan? And they say we dropped atomic bombs on them..... :heh:

datchapin
12-31-2010, 04:24 PM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach? What if Andre told the Texans he would demand a trade if they dumped Kubiak?

What if that's the only reason Kubiak is still here?

No players is greater than the team. Andre would get traded, simple as that. .... Okay now that I think about it that is what should happen. I don't know what McNair would do.

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2010, 04:30 PM
What if McNair fired Kubiak?
What if McNair hired Cowher?
What if McNair keeps Kubiak?
What if McNair hires Phillips?
What if what if what if...


Let's not discuss the possible coaching change(s) because they're what if's. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. If a fan can't talk about what ifs, this message board wouldn't exist.

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2010, 04:37 PM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach? What if Andre told the Texans he would demand a trade if they dumped Kubiak?

What if that's the only reason Kubiak is still here?
Well this certainly is a different thread than all the others! lol. As you're well aware, most of us (yourself probably included) don't think AJ said that, would say that... or at least be that blunt about it.

I'll run with this though to show you the proper respect of how a message board works instead of just bashing this because it's not the exact thread of the 4,000 other Kubiak/McNair hate threads.

What if... AJ had a private meeting with McNair and/or Rick Smith and said, "Listen, we all know I have tremendous respect for this organization and the city of Houston. I want nothing more than to bring this city a championship. I want that so bad. I really really think we're close to this with Kubiak and think it'd be a mistake firing him. Thank you so much for the new contract, but the most important thing for me is to make the playoffs and win a ring in my lifetime. I worry about bringing in a new staff and that setting us back a little bit... postponing what could be another year or two or longer. I don't want you to think I'm demanding a trade because I respect this club too much, but please consider trading me to a legitimate contender if you decide to dismantle this staff. I have faith in Kubiak and want to stay. I love this place, but I want nothing more than to win a championship. I think we're close... if you don't, maybe you can get some draft picks in place of me as you're rebuilding the team."

Interesting thunder.... I don't know what we'd do. I think McNair is already wanting to keep Kubiak in the first place. But if we were to completely overhaul this place, I don't know if we'd even trade him. He's just too good and I doubt he "won't play" for another coach. Let's get AJ a championship SOON.

GuerillaBlack
12-31-2010, 06:18 PM
What if Andre demands a trade if Kubiak comes back as coach?

And nice subtle message there Ole Miss Texan with that Andre quote you created. As if hiring a new coach would automatically mean the Texans are rebuilding.

thunderkyss
12-31-2010, 07:20 PM
What if Andre demands a trade if Kubiak comes back as coach?


If that were the sole reason McNair decided to fire Kubiak, I'd have just as little respect for this organization.

Inmates running the asylum... that's what I would be thinking.

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2010, 07:24 PM
What if Andre demands a trade if Kubiak comes back as coach?

And nice subtle message there Ole Miss Texan with that Andre quote you created. As if hiring a new coach would automatically mean the Texans are rebuilding.

Sheesh don't take things so personal. I'm not trying to be subtle or put in subliminal messages. I wrote a hypothetical thought of what AJ may say or feel running with the idea that he would want a trade if Kubiak wasn't coach. I'm running with the original post that's the whole point.

Quit being so damn sensitive.

wildroot
12-31-2010, 08:01 PM
dumb reply, yours & everyone else who has trouble reading. I didn't ask if Andre would say it, I said what if he did.

it's an attempt to get the conversation going in a different direction around here.

I'd threaten to sue him for breach of contract then tell him to go out a do what he's getting paid to do which is catching balls. It's not going to happen though.

Dutchrudder
12-31-2010, 08:31 PM
I was going to post another improbable, snarky hypothetical, but it looks like that has been thoroughly covered. Wish I could give rep from my phone...

KA4Texan
12-31-2010, 08:51 PM
I am with everyone else, I dont see him doing it, BUT, if he were to say it you would have to trade him away (as much as I love AJ) a team can never allow it self to be blackmailed by a player, no matter who it is, period.

Especially when said player is blackmailing towards keeping something in place that hurts the team.

However if AJ came out saying, "if kubes returns, I wont" (another twighlight zone hypothetical), you still cant be blackmiled, but an owner would HAVE to re evaluate the choice to keep the HC, due to AJ being a class act, if he is that openly against it, you know he isnt the only one and it is a BIG problem.

Texan_Bill
12-31-2010, 09:16 PM
What if Andre Said he won't play for another coach? What if Andre told the Texans he would demand a trade if they dumped Kubiak?

What if that's the only reason Kubiak is still here?

I dunno!! I'm okay with Kubiak staying, that said Rick Smith needs to go, Frank Bush needs to go.... Uncle Bob needs to hire a General Manager that doesn't work for (let alone, be hired by the HC) and is the HC's boss (unlike this current business model).... Second, a "REAL" Defensive Coordinator!!!!

GuerillaBlack
01-01-2011, 10:37 AM
Sheesh don't take things so personal. I'm not trying to be subtle or put in subliminal messages. I wrote a hypothetical thought of what AJ may say or feel running with the idea that he would want a trade if Kubiak wasn't coach. I'm running with the original post that's the whole point.

Quit being so damn sensitive.

You're trying way too hard here. Don't take things so personal? You're the one that posted this snappy little response back. And I have a hard time believe that since I know you're one of the Kubiak supporters. I've seen people post things like that before, and I know there is a little subtle message in there (you wanting to show your support for Kubiak). The Texans won't have to rebuild with a new coach. I'm new Andre would know that and wouldn't ask for a trade.

BattleRedToro
01-01-2011, 10:56 AM
If Andre requested a trade, I would understand it and I wouldn't hold it against him. Andre has done everything he could to make this team better, and he deserves to have a chance to win a championship. I would be sad to see him go, but I would always remain his fan.

Lucky
01-01-2011, 11:06 AM
If Andre requested a trade, I would understand it and I wouldn't hold it against him. Andre has done everything he could to make this team better, and he deserves to have a chance to win a championship. I would be sad to see him go, but I would always remain his fan.
If Andre requested a trade, it doesn't mean the Texans would have to honor the request. Having said that, I do feel bad for Andre. This organization doesn't put the same amount of effort to win that he puts forth. That has to be discouraging.

What have you done to become a champion today, Bob?

GuerillaBlack
01-01-2011, 11:10 AM
If Andre requested a trade, it doesn't mean the Texans would have to honor the request. Having said that, I do feel bad for Andre. This organization doesn't put the same amount of effort to win that he puts forth. That has to be discouraging.

What have you done to become a champion today, Bob?

Maybe Andre requesting a trade, if Kubiak is retained, would wake McNair the hell up. Probably be too late by then.

thunderkyss
01-03-2011, 11:38 AM
Now, I know the current situation is totally different from the way I started this thread.

However, something very curious is happening, that I'm really not understanding.

Many people here on this board want Kubiak gone (myself included, though my reasons may be different). But the players are very supportive of Kubiak, wanting him to stay.

Andre Johnson, Matt Schaub, Arian Foster..... not only the players who might have been "held accountable" for poor performance, but these are the players who may be "held back" because of those not being held accountable.

Why?

Let's say I'm Andre Johnson, & I feel this team is holding me back, & I lay blame on the HC. When asked, I'll say, "I really have no control of that, Bob is going to do the right thing."

If I'm Schaub.... & I believe the same thing.... "I like Gary... if he deserves to be back next year, he'll be here, if not... he won't."

If I'm Arian Foster..... same thing.

None of those guys will have to worry about having a place on this team regardless who the new HC would be. But to a T... they want Kubiak back.

Schaub
(On if he think they should bring back Coach Kubiak next season) I would say without hesitation bring him back. He’s the guy to lead this team and be the coach.

Andre
(on whether he supports Head Coach Gary Kubiak) “ Yeah, I hope he’s back next year. I’ve said that before and I’ll continue to say it. Like I said before, I can’t control that.”

Foster
(on what Coach Kubiak means to this team) “I’ve been playing this game since I was seven years old. Football is ups and downs. It’s a roller coaster ride. An organization that starts out, especially at this level, I think it started out in 2002, what he’s built since he’s been here, it speaks volumes because you look at his offensive production. Like he always says in the media, he says he feels like we’re right there. I think there were five games in which we lost in the last drive this year. You can do the math yourself. We just have to find a way to get over that hump and I feel like we’re right there as a team. I really do. I would vouch for Kub with my last breath and I love playing for him. He’s fair and will treat you like a man. He treats you like an NFL player. That’s all I can say. I’ve got the utmost respect for him even though he’s on me all the time.”



(on if Coach Kubiak has made him better) “Absolutely. Absolutely. He’s been around great players. He coached (QB) John Elway. He coached (RB) Terrell Davis. I used to watch that Denver offense all the time and I hated them because I was a Raider fan. But I used to watch it all the time and he’s been around this league for so long. Any time he gives me any kind of wisdom or jewels of the game, I always listen.”

Now.... look what Demeco said, about Frank Bush.
Demeco
(on whether he would like Defensive Coordinator Frank Bush back next season) “It’s not my decision.”

Runner
01-03-2011, 11:44 AM
Sorry, but this thread has received the respect it deserves. What if Napoleon had B-1 bombers at Waterloo?

Get real.

Napoleon would have won and the world would be short one Abba song.

GuerillaBlack
01-03-2011, 11:44 AM
If they are saying that about Kubiak (especially Arian), imagine what they would say with Cowher as the HC. They'd probably be star struck.

Playoffs
01-03-2011, 11:53 AM
Sorry, but this thread has received the respect it deserves. What if Napoleon had B-1 bombers at Waterloo?

Get real.Yup.

/thread

ChampionTexan
01-03-2011, 12:24 PM
Now, I know the current situation is totally different from the way I started this thread.

However, something very curious is happening, that I'm really not understanding.

Many people here on this board want Kubiak gone (myself included, though my reasons may be different). But the players are very supportive of Kubiak, wanting him to stay.

Andre Johnson, Matt Schaub, Arian Foster..... not only the players who might have been "held accountable" for poor performance, but these are the players who may be "held back" because of those not being held accountable.


Let's assume for a second everything you're saying is true. So what? What makes the players that much better then the average fan in determining who should and shouldn't be HC? With the exception of a Mega Superstar who may be consulted in the matter, when was the last time you saw an NFL front office get the players involved in determining who to hire as HC - or for that matter whether to keep the current HC.

This comes up every once in a while and I always refer back to the 1986 KC Chiefs. That team went 10-6 under HC John Mackovic, and made the playoffs for the first time since 1971. They did it with a huge contribution from the special teams. After the season was over, the players (led by place kicker Nick Lowery) went to Lamar Hunt, and not only demanded Mackovic's termination, they wanted him replaced with Frank Gansz - the special teams coach. Hunt did what they asked him to do. There's a lot more to the story, and the reality is that letting Mackovic go was in all likelihood the right decision, but the end result is that Hunt listened to the players and let them make his decision. Gansz lasted 2 seasons, went 8-22-1 and was replaced by Marty Schottenheimer who had them at 11-5 and back in the playoffs by his second season.

This is in no way intended to be a don't fire Kubiak story. The point is to listen to those who know about hiring and firing coaches (and that isn't the players or the fans), know enough to evaluate that feedback and incorporate your own viewpoint, and then make the best decision for your ballclub. Unfortunately, from where I sit, the people who know about hiring and firing coaches don't appear to exist in the Texan organization, and that would include Bob McNair.

thunderkyss
01-03-2011, 02:10 PM
Let's assume for a second everything you're saying is true. So what? What makes the players that much better then the average fan in determining who should and shouldn't be HC?

I'm not saying they are....

very good post by the way, thank you for sharing.

But my question, is if it is so obvious to us, why wouldn't it be obvious to the players?

Andre should have an idea of what has been lacking, why he hasn't got to the play-offs.....

I would think.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-03-2011, 02:18 PM
Now, I know the current situation is totally different from the way I started this thread.

However, something very curious is happening, that I'm really not understanding.

Many people here on this board want Kubiak gone (myself included, though my reasons may be different). But the players are very supportive of Kubiak, wanting him to stay.

Andre Johnson, Matt Schaub, Arian Foster..... not only the players who might have been "held accountable" for poor performance, but these are the players who may be "held back" because of those not being held accountable.

Why?

Let's say I'm Andre Johnson, & I feel this team is holding me back, & I lay blame on the HC. When asked, I'll say, "I really have no control of that, Bob is going to do the right thing."

If I'm Schaub.... & I believe the same thing.... "I like Gary... if he deserves to be back next year, he'll be here, if not... he won't."

If I'm Arian Foster..... same thing.

None of those guys will have to worry about having a place on this team regardless who the new HC would be. But to a T... they want Kubiak back.







Now.... look what Demeco said, about Frank Bush.




Now you are really grasping at straws. Literally coming up with any idea to rationalize Kubiak's return. What players say in front of a mic and what they really believe could be 2 completely different things. Do you expect the players to say anything negative about Kubiak when all indications are that Kubiak will not be fired?

thunderkyss
01-03-2011, 02:26 PM
Now you are really grasping at straws. Literally coming up with any idea to rationalize Kubiak's return. What players say in front of a mic and what they really believe could be 2 completely different things. Do you expect the players to say anything negative about Kubiak when all indications are that Kubiak will not be fired?

I'm not grasping at straws.... I don't care for Kubiak to return.

I don't want Kubiak to return.

These quotes are only a small sample of what these guys are saying. Listen to the Matt Schaub show.... listen to the interviews..... read all the quotes.

Just like that Demeco Quote...... "what do you think about Frank Bush not coming back next year?" "not my decision"

That's a dagger if you ask me.

Listen to the Matt Schaub show.. he believes in Kubiak.... no doubt about it.

Listen to the Eric Winston show, I stayed away from Winston, because I believe he would be out of a job if Kubiak is replaced, but listen to his show, he believes in Kubiak.

Listen to Andre..... he believes.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-03-2011, 02:31 PM
I'm not grasping at straws.... I don't care for Kubiak to return.

I don't want Kubiak to return.

These quotes are only a small sample of what these guys are saying. Listen to the Matt Schaub show.... listen to the interviews..... read all the quotes.

Just like that Demeco Quote...... "what do you think about Frank Bush not coming back next year?" "not my decision"

That's a dagger if you ask me.

Listen to the Matt Schaub show.. he believes in Kubiak.... no doubt about it.

Listen to the Eric Winston show, I stayed away from Winston, because I believe he would be out of a job if Kubiak is replaced, but listen to his show, he believes in Kubiak.

Listen to Andre..... he believes.



I suppose you also believed Gary Kubiak when we said he could win with David Carr.

thunderkyss
01-03-2011, 02:35 PM
I suppose you also believed Gary Kubiak when we said he could win with David Carr.

I'm not a David Carr fan... but yes, I blamed Kubiak for several of the losses in 2006. Several decisions he made lost more games than David Carr.

At the end of the 2006 season, I've got a post around here somewhere saying Kubiak wasn't ready.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-03-2011, 02:38 PM
I'm not a David Carr fan... but yes, I blamed Kubiak for several of the losses in 2006. Several decisions he made lost more games than David Carr.

At the end of the 2006 season, I've got a post around here somewhere saying Kubiak wasn't ready.



Point is, do you think Kubiak really believed he could win big with David Carr?

Ole Miss Texan
01-03-2011, 03:06 PM
I think what thunderkyss is trying to say here is that it appears the players really believe in Kubiak and want him back. Sometimes you take that for what it's worth, they don't want to throw their coach under the bus. Many players want to keep current staff because they may get cut if new people come in. But these are our STAR players that won't ever get cut that are standing up and vouching. Demeco on the other hand gives a response like he did "outta my hands" and you can read between the lines. He had nothing good to say so didn't say anything.

This isn't thunderkyss trying to grasp at straws on why Kubiak should or should not be here or trying to rationalize anything.. He's just bringing up another topic for us to think about an discuss. That's all. His posts aren't about what he thinks should or should not happen, so lay off him! lol

Kimmy
01-03-2011, 03:07 PM
I think what thunderkyss is trying to say here is that it appears the players really believe in Kubiak and want him back. Sometimes you take that for what it's worth, they don't want to throw their coach under the bus. Many players want to keep current staff because they may get cut if new people come in. But these are our STAR players that won't ever get cut that are standing up and vouching. Demeco on the other hand gives a response like he did "outta my hands" and you can read between the lines. He had nothing good to say so didn't say anything.


I think you hit the nail on the head. Great post.