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Pollardized
12-29-2010, 04:04 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7357738.html

Damn, Bum must be getting senile....

valleytexfan
12-29-2010, 04:05 PM
Didn't see this anywhere...

By CHRIS DUNCAN
AP Sports Writer

HOUSTON (AP) _ Texans coach Gary Kubiak has two Houston football icons in his corner as he faces his uncertain future.
Former Oilers coach Bum Phillips and ex-Oilers quarterback Dan Pastorini attended Wednesday’s practice and urged Texans owner Bob McNair to retain Kubiak despite the team’s nosedive this season.
The Texans (5-10) have lost eight of their last nine games heading into Sunday’s season finale at home against Jacksonville (8-7). Kubiak is finishing his fifth season and fans are bombarding local radio shows with calls that he be fired.
After watching practice, the 87-year-old Phillips said the team seemed to still be focused and working hard.
“You’re not going to get any better coach than him,” Phillips said. “If you can get your team to practice like these kids practiced, the last week of the season, with nothing to look forward to, then believe me, he’s got control of the team. He’s always been a good coach. You’re not going to get any better than Gary Kubiak.”
Kubiak was a ball boy for the Oilers when Phillips was the coach and Pastorini was playing in the late 1970s. Pastorini said the Texans have to make “a few tweaks” in the offseason, but seem to be on the right track under Kubiak.
“I think he’s a good coach, I think the players love him and respect him,” Pastorini said. “I know a lot of people are calling for his head. But I, for one, believe in him. I think he can turn it around. I don’t think there’s a lot of shaking up needed.”
Kubiak has tried to tune out the speculation. He said Monday that he’s only focused on Sunday’s game and more worried about the fate of his assistant coaches than his own.
On Wednesday, he was almost defiant, vowing that he plans to coach in the NFL for years to come.
“I’m going to do this for a long time,” Kubiak said. “I’m a good coach, I’ve got a lot to give. I know it’s part of the business, and when you get yourself into the position I’m in as a head coach, those are things you’ve got to deal with. So I will deal with them the right way, and I will come out of them a better coach.
“I understand that’s part of the deal,” he said. “Is it tough? You bet.”
Phillips and Pastorini ate lunch with McNair and general manager Rick Smith in the team cafeteria after Wednesday’s workout.
The meal may have allowed Phillips to put in a good word for his son, Wade, who was fired by the Dallas Cowboys after the team started 1-7.
The Texans will almost certainly be looking to replace defensive coordinator Frank Bush, regardless of whether Kubiak stays or goes. Houston ranks 29th in total defense (380.6 yards per game) and last against the pass this season (277.1).
Wade Phillips would be one of the most experienced defensive coordinators available, with stints for Denver (1989-92), Buffalo (1995-97) and Atlanta (2002-03) and Dallas (2004-06) before he became the Cowboys’ head coach.
Bum Phillips said Wade is eager to get another job.
“Wade doesn’t know how to enjoy anything but football,” Phillips said. “A lot of people, if they don’t have football, they play golf or they gamble a lot, or go fishing. He doesn’t care about any of that. All he cares about is football. As long as he feels that way, I’m sure he’ll stay in it.”

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 04:10 PM
No offense to these guys, but who cares what they think? If McNair is not going to listen to the folks who financially support his team then why would two old school icons matter?

HoustonFrog
12-29-2010, 04:14 PM
No offense to these guys, but who cares what they think? If McNair is not going to listen to the folks who financially support his team then why would two old school icons matter?

Agree. I'm starting to think this organization...McNair..is just a joke.

NitroGSXR
12-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Looks like Pastorini still has a severe drinking problem and Bum's just trying to get his kid a job.

Eh.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 04:16 PM
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTH8j-EKp5W4K-Djt7BL_20tPNa56GYwkILuMM81_Y3Ub2grDrBZg

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 04:16 PM
Looks like Pastorini still has a severe drinking problem and Bum's just trying to get his kid a job.

Eh.

Rep if the system would let me. I agree completely, and while I have the utmost respect for Bum, I don't have to agree with his perspectives on this issue.

Maddict5
12-29-2010, 04:17 PM
Phillips and Pastorini took in practice at the side of Texans owner Bob McNair, McNair’s son Cal, and general manager Rick Smith. There has been some speculation that Phillips’ son Wade, fired at head coach of the Dallas Cowboys after a 1-7 start, would join Kubiak’s staff as defensive coordinator next season, assuming Kubiak isn’t fired after the Jacksonville game Sunday.

“It would tickle me to death,” Bum Phillips said. “Wade’s a Houston boy. He’s got family here.”

The Texans have had a horrible season defensively, particularly in pass coverage, where they are close to becoming statistically the worst team in NFL history. Wade Phillips began building his reputation as a defensive strategist when he came to the NFL as one of his father’s assistants with the Oilers from 1976 until Bum was fired after the 1980 season.

He’s considered a disciple of the 3-4 defensive set, while the Texans are a 4-3 team. But Bum Phillips dismissed that as an issue regarding Wade’s possibly replacing Kubiak’s current defensive coordinator, Frank Bush.

Asked if Wade could adapt to coaching a 4-3, Bum said, “Sure. They played the 4-3 a lot of places Wade’s been, like Philadelphia. You play the defense that fits your personnel. That’s how I got started with 3-4. We had more good linebackers than we had good defensive linemen.

“I know he’s going to coach again. Wade don’t know how to enjoy anything except football. Lot of people play golf or gamble or go hunting or fishing. He don’t care about any of that. All he cares about is football. As long as he feels that way, I’m sure he’ll stay in it.

“If (the Texans) need a coach, I’m sure he’d be tickled to death, and I’m sure they would be, too.”

most relevant part of the story imo

isnt that as close as a 'wades coming' as can be given with bush still here?

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 04:20 PM
Bum's just trying to get his kid a job.

There is a grandson to think about as well.

Mike Kerns
12-29-2010, 04:20 PM
Great. We all know how much Bob values everyone elses opinion.

#Ontherighttrack

ArlingtonTexan
12-29-2010, 04:22 PM
No offense to these guys, but who cares what they think? If McNair is not going to listen to the folks who financially support his team then why would two old school icons matter?

Actually, the problem is that he would and does listen to guys like this. Remember he was all giddy a couple of weeks back because an owner or two said something about them being on the right track. Remember he heard Dan reeves say that you could win with Mittens at QB.

tedr
12-29-2010, 04:23 PM
Also heard Ray Childress on 790 with Matt Thomas. He was defending Kubes as well. Didn't Childress play with Kubiak at A&M?

I respect all three of these guys a lot, but I think they're all wrong here.

Honoring Earl 34
12-29-2010, 04:30 PM
Hey ... on the bright side ... Wade's got a daughter .

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=201960&d=1231831873

This is marketing 101 at best .

HTown2ATX
12-29-2010, 04:31 PM
Glad that this article was put up.

Ran out of TP at the house and don't feel like going to the store.

....think the printer just finished up. Sweet relief!

:gun:

stingray
12-29-2010, 04:31 PM
Where there's smoke there's fire. I think more and more this is going to be the end result.

Gary as our coach :kubepalm:

and

Wade as our DC. :wadepalm:

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 04:33 PM
Hey ... on the bright side ... Wade's got a daughter .

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=201960&d=1231831873

This is marketing 101 at best .

I am waiting for the "Babe of the Day thread" team to endorse Wade Phillips very soon. :)

Hookem Horns
12-29-2010, 04:43 PM
Are all of these guys still on Bud Adams payroll?? Bum also thought his son was doing a great job in Dallas.

Phillips said. “If you can get your team to practice like these kids practiced, the last week of the season, with nothing to look forward to, then believe me, he’s got control of the team. He’s always been a good coach. You’re not going to get any better than Gary Kubiak.”

You are what your record says you are Bum.

texansdrummer
12-29-2010, 04:44 PM
Sounds like this deal is pretty much in the bag. I could be wrong, but it sounds like a great way to ensure the legacy of the Oiler's "success". On the other hand, if Kubes is gonna be here....there's probably not a better choice for DC.

djohn2oo8
12-29-2010, 04:45 PM
http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/simpsons-mob-torches.jpg

Yankee_In_TX
12-29-2010, 04:48 PM
Are all of these guys still on Bud Adams payroll?? Bum also thought his son was doing a great job in Dallas.



You are what your record says you are Bum.

My thoughts, to those definding the regime, tell me

a) why we sucked and
b) what tangible things will be changed to prevent sucking next year


Because all I heard all freakin' year long was a lack of answers.

TexanDave
12-29-2010, 04:55 PM
I hope Bob stops listening to the opinions of others... unless of course it is the fan opinions. :fans:

BetaV1
12-29-2010, 04:57 PM
Hey ... on the bright side ... Wade's got a daughter .

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=201960&d=1231831873

This is marketing 101 at best .

:bender:

There is a culture though surrounding owners and coaches who do legitimately have each other's backs. Tom Bensen and Mickey Loomis hired Sean Payton virtually based on the very vocal endorsement of divisional rival coach John Fox. Fox, now at this point in time, has gotten some support from former players and coaches as well, and I for one think Fox is a very good coach.

It might be hard to believe, but there's no "plot" or "conspiracy to keep a losing formula intact" here for the benefit of the rest of the NFL. These guys are coming out with their opinions BASED ON THEIR OWN NFL EXPERIENCE that what they see here is the right way to go about it. This isn't Minnesota under Childress. This isn't Denver under McDaniels. If the team is being run in a very hap-hazard manner, you best believe the players would revolt against such "losing ways." Thus far, they haven't, and that tells me that Kubiak has made the effort to run the place like a real NFL franchise, despite how we think one should be run.

Pantherstang84
12-29-2010, 05:08 PM
Well there you go.

Kubiak will return for 2011 boys and girls. Lock it up.

This is Texans marketing machine at its best. Wade Phillips will be your Defensive Coordinator. The best we can hope for now is some house cleaning in the front office.

P.S. I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just saying that is what will happen.

blitz90
12-29-2010, 05:21 PM
Great. Shut your damn hole, Bum.

scourge
12-29-2010, 05:27 PM
Hey ... on the bright side ... Wade's got a daughter .

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=201960&d=1231831873

This is marketing 101 at best .

Giggity



Are all of these guys still on Bud Adams payroll?? Bum also thought his son was doing a great job in Dallas.


You are what your record says you are Bum.


exactly

Pantherstang84
12-29-2010, 05:43 PM
Great. Shut your damn hole, Bum.

This isn't Bum and Dan acting on their own. This is coming from 2 Reliant Park. You can bank on it.

Hervoyel
12-29-2010, 05:48 PM
Where there's smoke there's fire. I think more and more this is going to be the end result.

Gary as our coach :kubepalm:

and

Wade as our DC. :wadepalm:

Yep. This is a staged event if you ask me. Bob knows what he's going to do. He's probably had conversations with all the principal characters involved in this already and now he trots out the legend (Bum) and an Oiler player ("Doesn't matter which one really, Dan's available? Fine, make sure he looks sober") and they just happen to be there to talk about how great it would be if the Texans did what Bob's already planning on doing.

It's NFL style coaching change "Kabuki Theater" for the dumbshits who buy the tickets. "Absolutely we need their support but they don't understand that we're on the right track. We have to calm them down so they can enjoy the playoffs next year when we get there"

Ole Miss Texan
12-29-2010, 05:54 PM
This isn't Bum and Dan acting on their own. This is coming from 2 Reliant Park. You can bank on it.

Yep. This is a staged event if you ask me. Bob knows what he's going to do.
Interesting conspiracy theory... I dig it. If Bum and Dan were asked to come to practice and/or even remark on things by McNair et al... it means Kubiak stays and a great chance Wade comes in. He wouldn't ask for that if he planned on canning Kubes.

Kimmy
12-29-2010, 06:17 PM
“You’re not going to get any better coach than him,” Phillips said. “If you can get your team to practice like these kids practiced, the last week of the season

Kubiak .. is that you??

GuerillaBlack
12-29-2010, 06:34 PM
Hey ... on the bright side ... Wade's got a daughter .

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=201960&d=1231831873

This is marketing 101 at best .

No lie!

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2007_Charlie_Wilson_s_War/007CWW_Tracy_Phillips_003.jpg

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 06:37 PM
Great. Shut your damn hole, Bum.

Watch your mouth dude!

Sayin stuff like that is like swearing in church.

disaacks3
12-29-2010, 06:43 PM
Good for Bum and Dan, they can still express an opinion.

Here's mine - Hell no. Capers got a shorter leash and he'd actually SEEN the playoffs in his career as a coach.

This team is the NFL equivalent of a DEmotivators poster.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/demotivators/consistencydemotivationalposter.jpg

The1ApplePie
12-29-2010, 06:49 PM
This is actually on the front page of the cbs sports NFL site.

The only comment (the people that comment on CBS sports articles are nothing but d-bags):

"Houston has football legends?"

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 08:17 PM
My thoughts, to those definding the regime, tell me

a) why we sucked and
b) what tangible things will be changed to prevent sucking next year


Because all I heard all freakin' year long was a lack of answers.

We sucked b/c we didn't have a defense.

Hopefully Wade does come over to be our D coach. He is one hell of D coach. One of the best.

Rick Smith and his ego is the problem. Maybe with Phillips and Kubiak working together they can be unified against the front office and get things done for once.

eriadoc
12-29-2010, 08:27 PM
Phillips said. “If you can get your team to practice like these kids practiced, the last week of the season, with nothing to look forward to, then believe me, he’s got control of the team. He’s always been a good coach. You’re not going to get any better than Gary Kubiak.”

With all due respect, Bum, there are really only two options here. Either Kubiak has failed as a head coach or the players suck. Since Kubiak brought those players in and coached them up to where they are now, all roads lead to the fact that Gary Kubiak has failed.

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 08:33 PM
With all due respect, Bum, there are really only two options here. Either Kubiak has failed as a head coach or the players suck. Since Kubiak brought those players in and coached them up to where they are now, all roads lead to the fact that Gary Kubiak has failed.

Respectfully disagree.

Those are players Rick Smith brought in. Those are players that Rick Smith brought in using the underfunded or inept scouting department that he put together.

Maybe I am a little biased due to the fact that both Phillips and Kubiak are not only Texas boys but Houstonians.

Not to many real Houstonians in Houston.

eriadoc
12-29-2010, 08:36 PM
Respectfully disagree.

Those are players Rick Smith brought in. Those are players that Rick Smith brought in using the underfunded or inept scouting department that he put together.

Maybe I am a little biased due to the fact that both Phillips and Kubiak are not only Texas boys but Houstonians.

Not to many real Houstonians in Houston.

Assuming that's true (which I don't think it is), Kubiak hired Rick Smith. So again, Kubiak is a failure. If it makes you feel any better, so is Rick Smith (on more fronts than that, IMO).

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 08:44 PM
Assuming that's true (which I don't think it is), Kubiak hired Rick Smith. So again, Kubiak is a failure. If it makes you feel any better, so is Rick Smith (on more fronts than that, IMO).

The best draft we ever had was Kubiak/Casserly. And I have been saying for a while the 2007 draft was going to bight us in the ass.

4 years and counting we have drafted project players or drafting the BPA that never seem to fit out scheme.

Does anyone really think Kubiak wanted to draft 3 TE's?

Smith is a horrible GM.

Carr Bombed
12-29-2010, 08:46 PM
Yep. This is a staged event if you ask me. Bob knows what he's going to do. He's probably had conversations with all the principal characters involved in this already and now he trots out the legend (Bum) and an Oiler player ("Doesn't matter which one really, Dan's available? Fine, make sure he looks sober") and they just happen to be there to talk about how great it would be if the Texans did what Bob's already planning on doing.

It's NFL style coaching change "Kabuki Theater" for the dumbshits who buy the tickets. "Absolutely we need their support but they don't understand that we're on the right track. We have to calm them down so they can enjoy the playoffs next year when we get there"

LMAO, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this is a staged event by our hard working P.R. staff.

There's no doubt in my mind that McNair had Bum and Dan come down to practice and endorse Kubiak, which is why I don't put any weight into either one's "endorsement". Especially Bum's, whose family benefits from Kubiak sticking around and hiring his son.

eriadoc
12-29-2010, 08:52 PM
The best draft we ever had was Kubiak/Casserly. And I have been saying for a while the 2007 draft was going to bight us in the ass.

4 years and counting we have drafted project players or drafting the BPA that never seem to fit out scheme.

Does anyone really think Kubiak wanted to draft 3 TE's?

Smith is a horrible GM.

Kubiak either drafted the players (even the TEs), or he hired a terrible GM and didn't work with him to get players he wanted. Furthermore, Kubiak didn't coach up the players he had. Again, Kubiak is a failure. At every turn, no matter how you try and rationalize it away, everything points to Kubiak being a failure. This team has Kubiak's fingerprints all over it.

Buffi2
12-29-2010, 08:57 PM
I'm not saying I like this turn of events but it makes sense to me.

The sudden appearance by Bum and Pastorini is a PR move. Bum is like a god here and if he says Kubiak should stay then by jiminy the fans should believe him. Pastorini is just there for looks and hope he doesn't stumble or sway. Ray Childress on the radio is a nice touch.

McNair won't have to pay Kubiak's contract off while hiring someone else with their own staff in a possible lockout year. Give his guy one more year and doesn't have to spend any more money.

Wade is a Phillips and an Oiler - need I say more?

Wade is a good DC and proven, I might add. He's a good old boy whom even Jerry Jones still likes. Aw shucks, another good PR move.

I can see McNair thinking this is the answer. Improve the defense, let Kubiak do something about the offense playing 4 quarters - or even 3 would be an improvement and hope the head coaching light bulb comes on in Gary's head before next September.

drs23
12-29-2010, 09:02 PM
No lie!

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2007_Charlie_Wilson_s_War/007CWW_Tracy_Phillips_003.jpg

I'm IN! :good:

Pantherstang84
12-29-2010, 09:02 PM
I'm not saying I like this turn of events but it makes sense to me.

The sudden appearance by Bum and Pastorini is a PR move. Bum is like a god here and if he says Kubiak should stay then by jiminy the fans should believe him. Pastorini is just there for looks and hope he doesn't stumble or sway. Ray Childress on the radio is a nice touch.

McNair won't have to pay Kubiak's contract off while hiring someone else with their own staff in a possible lockout year. Give his guy one more year and doesn't have to spend any more money.

Wade is a Phillips and an Oiler - need I say more?

Wade is a good DC and proven, I might add. He's a good old boy whom even Jerry Jones still likes. Aw shucks, another good PR move.

I can see McNair thinking this is the answer. Improve the defense, let Kubiak do something about the offense playing 4 quarters - or even 3 would be an improvement and hope the head coaching light bulb comes on in Gary's head before next September.

Who is it that has the Vinny quote in their signature?

"The Houston Texans are a marketing company that happens to have a football division."

Something to that effect.

As soon as I saw the story on chron.com, I knew what was going on. You could send these folks to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and they would be just brilliant in the White House Press Office.

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Kubiak either drafted the players (even the TEs), or he hired a terrible GM and didn't work with him to get players he wanted. Furthermore, Kubiak didn't coach up the players he had. Again, Kubiak is a failure. At every turn, no matter how you try and rationalize it away, everything points to Kubiak being a failure. This team has Kubiak's fingerprints all over it.

I hear ya. I am just as mad as the next fan. I expected us to have won the superbowl by now.

IMO I don't think our anger is directed in the right direction.

When your business fails do you fire the CEO or the assistant manager?

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 09:13 PM
I hear ya. I am just as mad as the next fan. I expected us to have won the superbowl by now.

IMO I don't think our anger is directed in the right direction.

When your business fails do you fire the CEO or the assistant manager?

Wait, are you placing Kubiak as the assistant manager in this scenario? The guy who hired Rick Smith in the first place???

eriadoc
12-29-2010, 09:15 PM
I hear ya. I am just as mad as the next fan. I expected us to have won the superbowl by now.

IMO I don't think our anger is directed in the right direction.

When your business fails do you fire the CEO or the assistant manager?

Depends on who made the business fail. I don't know what label you're putting on Kubiak, but he's the one who built the team, he's the one who hired Rick Smith, he's the one who hired Richard Smith, he's the one who hired Frank Bush, he's the one who hired David Gibbs, he's the one who hired Jethro Franklin, he's the one who mismanaged the clock repeatedly, hes the one who decided that guys like Antwaun Molden and Xavier Adibi deserved spots on the roster repeatedly, and he's the one who is responsible for this team.

Now Rick Smith deserves to be fired for his part in building the team and especially for his handling of player contracts (IMO), but I don't pin primary responsibility on him. Botton line is they were a team of two rookies to whom McNair handed the reins of his company, and they failed. Separate it out however you want, but there's no exonerating Kubiak.

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 09:24 PM
Wait, are you placing Kubiak as the assistant manager in this scenario? The guy who hired Rick Smith in the first place???

Yes and Kubiak didn't hire Smith.

eriadoc
12-29-2010, 09:25 PM
Yes and Kubiak didn't hire Smith.

Have any evidence to back that assertion?

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 09:29 PM
Yes and Kubiak didn't hire Smith.

And you think as things have stood since their arrival that Rick Smith has truly served as a manager over Kubiak - that he had final say on all things football operations?

Come on, you know better than that.

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 09:29 PM
Depends on who made the business fail. I don't know what label you're putting on Kubiak, but he's the one who built the team, he's the one who hired Rick Smith, he's the one who hired Richard Smith, he's the one who hired Frank Bush, he's the one who hired David Gibbs, he's the one who hired Jethro Franklin, he's the one who mismanaged the clock repeatedly, hes the one who decided that guys like Antwaun Molden and Xavier Adibi deserved spots on the roster repeatedly, and he's the one who is responsible for this team.

Now Rick Smith deserves to be fired for his part in building the team and especially for his handling of player contracts (IMO), but I don't pin primary responsibility on him. Botton line is they were a team of two rookies to whom McNair handed the reins of his company, and they failed. Separate it out however you want, but there's no exonerating Kubiak.
Kubiak didn't hire Smith. Reeves was the consult at the time wasn't he?

Gibbs was labeled as a guy who had success with you secondaries. This isn't Gibb's first rodeo with a young secondary. Reminds me of the Chiefs secondary that was just as terrible as ours.

Smith, well, bad move. Along with Bush. But again, Kubiak is an Offensive guy not a defensive guy. Yeah, yeah, I know, he is the HC. This is why you don't do business with friends.

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 09:31 PM
And you think as things have stood since their arrival that Rick Smith has truly served as a manager over Kubiak - that he had final say on all things football operations?

Come on, you know better than that.

Yes I do. The GM out ranks the HC. Nothing about their working relationship has ever pointed to a different direction.

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 09:32 PM
Kubiak didn't hire Smith. Reeves was the consult at the time wasn't he?

Gibbs was labeled as a guy who had success with you secondaries. This isn't Gibb's first rodeo with a young secondary. Reminds me of the Chiefs secondary that was just as terrible as ours.

Smith, well, bad move. Along with Bush. But again, Kubiak is an Offensive guy not a defensive guy. Yeah, yeah, I know, he is the HC. This is why you don't do business with friends.

Frankly, they should both be gone and let this franchise start fresh; however, since that is not likely we can watch them give it a go for a sixth year...

HoustonFrog
12-29-2010, 09:33 PM
Kubiak didn't hire Smith. Reeves was the consult at the time wasn't he?

Gibbs was labeled as a guy who had success with you secondaries. This isn't Gibb's first rodeo with a young secondary. Reminds me of the Chiefs secondary that was just as terrible as ours.

Smith, well, bad move. Along with Bush. But again, Kubiak is an Offensive guy not a defensive guy. Yeah, yeah, I know, he is the HC. This is why you don't do business with friends.

As far as I heard Smith was brought in because of how he worked with Kubiak..so post-Kubiak. Kubiak agreed that it was a good move. They have worked side by side on drafts. Kubes hired the D Coordinators.

Overall I think the owner should be able to see through all this crap. 1) Go get one of the brightest minds for a GM that has served for a top franchise...Pats, GB, Steelers. Then have that guy bring in his people and coaches. That is the only way this cycle ends.

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 09:33 PM
Yes I do. The GM out ranks the HC. Nothing about their working relationship has ever pointed to a different direction.

Red, now you know in your heart of hearts that those titles don't mean a thing as it relates to this particular relationship. I know you do...

Look, everyone can agree to disagree on who should go and who should stay, but we have to at least be honest in how this franchise is currently set up and operates.

eriadoc
12-29-2010, 09:42 PM
Kubiak didn't hire Smith. Reeves was the consult at the time wasn't he?

No, he wasn't. That was the year prior, when Casserly was still the GM. Kubiak hired, or at the very least, had Smith hired. It's common knowledge that you're just refusing to accept. But hey, that's OK, because it doesn't change the equation at all. Kubiak has several jobs, and he's done none of them well.

NONE. OF. THEM.

TEXANRED
12-29-2010, 09:44 PM
Have any evidence to back that assertion?

Really? Evidence? Mine is an opinion just like everyone else's.

But....

Owner Bob McNair has hired Smith over Green Bay director of pro personnel Reggie McKenzie and New Orleans director of player personnel Rick Mueller. Smith joins the Texans after 10 seasons with the Broncos.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3925794.html

But then again I have been known to be wrong once or twice:

"We've said all along that we get players that Gary wants, but there's a lot of effort in our organization that goes into the draft process," McNair said. "Charley managed all of that.
"Gary would define to us what he wanted in the way of a player or group of players. The challenge for Charley and his group was to find that which had been described to them. That doesn't change.
"The fact that Gary does an outstanding job of that makes it that much easier for the scouts, because they have a much clearer idea of what he really wants and what he doesn't."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3855654.html

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 09:50 PM
Really? Evidence? Mine is an opinion just like everyone else's.

But....



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3925794.html

But then again I have been known to be wrong once or twice:



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3855654.html

You are pointing to an old article about Charlie Casserly. Casserly was actually closer to a true GM (recall the friction between Casserly and Capers) - that all ended when Smith came aboard.

bckey
12-30-2010, 02:51 AM
This whole thing stinks of being a staged event. I agree with Herv and some others here that we are being setup for keeping Kubiak and hiring Phillips. What a friggin joke. McNair is really starting to make me dislike him. You just want to grab him and say what the ****** are you thinking? Why bring back football to Houston if you are going to continue to make the same mistakes over and over and keep putting a mediocre product on the field and telling us that you want to win. Bull******. Actions speak louder than words. Nine years and counting. He should NEVER have given Kubiak an extension last year. Now the excuse is being floated that we don't want to pay Kubiak for 2 more years and pay and new head coach with a strike looming. Well McNair you are the one that gave him the extension and got yourself in this pickle. You great football mind you.

Señor Stan
12-30-2010, 07:27 AM
I don't know if this has been posted in another thread...it's hard to keep up with all the coaching threads. Mods are like Hercules in the Augean Stables...nice work...

I think that after the now infamous "on the right track" McNair quote, a conversation/gentleman's deal was set up with Phillips to take over as DC.

Then the 2010 season continued to be the 2010 season. The fan uprising has become worse, but McNair is not going back on his word.

I can't think of any other reason to be bringing Bum and Dante out to practice. Not. One. Was Earl unwilling or unavailable?

Sunshine, Lollipops, Rainbows, Marshmallows, and...what the heck....balloon animals for everyone!!!!

TheMatrix31
12-30-2010, 08:06 AM
Kubiak has several jobs, and he's done none of them well.

NONE. OF. THEM.




EDIT: Read the post wrong. Nvm.

Lucky
12-30-2010, 08:13 AM
Bum and Dan are hawking a bad product. A lemon is a lemon. And what the Texans have is a lemon. I'm sorry Mr. McNair, but I'm not going to buy this product any longer. I'm sure you'll find another sap to take my place.

El Tejano
12-30-2010, 08:17 AM
Like the saying has been: "The Texans are a Marketing Company with a football team."

That statement has never been more true than right now.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2010, 08:22 AM
Like the saying has been: "The Texans are a Marketing Company with a football team."

That statement has never been more true than right now.

While it's true.....every professional sports team is a marketing company within a (insert sport here) team. It's a business.

Texaninlild
12-30-2010, 08:25 AM
Bum and Dan are hawking a bad product. A lemon is a lemon. And what the Texans have is a lemon. I'm sorry Mr. McNair, but I'm not going to buy this product any longer. I'm sure you'll find another sap to take my place.

Bob,

Do not force me to become a Cowpie fan!!:boogereater::wadepalm:

Mr teX
12-30-2010, 09:27 AM
Hoouuuston oilers!........hoouuuston oilers!.......hoouuuston oilers #1!!!!!!!!

Who wants some of bum & danny boy?

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 10:23 AM
Frankly, they should both be gone and let this franchise start fresh; however, since that is not likely we can watch them give it a go for a sixth year...

And a 7th... and a 8th ..... and a 9th... etc......

Uncle BoB loves him some Smithiak and he's going to great lengths bringing in Bum (Wade) Dante (Bums adopted son) how's the boat racing going? and Childress (Aggie) to save Kubiak. It's pathetic.

All because of 2 things
1. Uncle BoB doesn't want to admit he was wrong in giving Kubiak the extention. Even though many at the time told Uncle BoB that he was making a mistake.
2. It saves Uncle BoB $$$$ during a possible lockout yr.

disaacks3
12-30-2010, 10:35 AM
I hear ya. I am just as mad as the next fan. I expected us to have won the superbowl by now.

IMO I don't think our anger is directed in the right direction.

When your business fails do you fire the CEO or the assistant manager?

That's the problem, the Texans (as a business) aren't failing at all. Their revenue stream looks good and the value of the franchise keeps going up.

The failed product on the field doesn't automatically equate to reduced revenue and THAT is the biggest problem Texans fans face. Until / unless Uncle Bob is threatened with revenue LOSS, he has no impetus to really shake things up.

disaacks3
12-30-2010, 10:40 AM
And a 7th... and a 8th ..... and a 9th... etc......

Uncle BoB loves him some Smithiak and he's going to great lengths bringing in Bum (Wade) Dante (Bums adopted son) how's the boat racing going? and Childress (Aggie) to save Kubiak. It's pathetic.

All because of 2 things
1. Uncle BoB doesn't want to admit he was wrong in giving Kubiak the extention. Even though many at the time told Uncle BoB that he was making a mistake.
2. It saves Uncle BoB $$$$ during a possible lockout yr.

Ray Childress is a minority owner of the Texans, since the time of Dom Capers.

scourge
12-30-2010, 10:46 AM
Really? Evidence? Mine is an opinion just like everyone else's.

But....



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3925794.html

But then again I have been known to be wrong once or twice:



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3855654.html

How does this in any way prove that Kubiak wasn't influential in hiring Smith? Of course Bob hired him, he's boss. That doesn't mean that it was his idea without persuasion. It's clear in there that they draft what Kubiak wants.

"We've said all along that we get players that Gary wants, but there's a lot of effort in our organization that goes into the draft process," McNair said. "Charley managed all of that.
"Gary would define to us what he wanted in the way of a player or group of players. The challenge for Charley and his group was to find that which had been described to them. That doesn't change.
"The fact that Gary does an outstanding job of that makes it that much easier for the scouts, because they have a much clearer idea of what he really wants and what he doesn't."

If Kubiak didn't want 3 TE's, it wouldn't have happened. He IS in the War Room during the draft, ya know...

It really doesn't matter in the end, though. He still has talent on this team, and it's his job to make get them to perform. Rick doesn't do that. Rick doesn't pick his coaches. Rick doesn't have bad clock management. Rick doesn't call questionable plays in crucial situations. Rick isn't trying to be HC and OC at the same time, Kubiak is. He did the same initially with Kyle. Dennison doesn't call the plays.

It's on Gary to make this team work. Do you really think another coach like Cowher, Gruden, etc... would have had this team playing the same or worse this season? Gary gets focus and real effort from his players for half a game. Had he been able to keep his team motivated and focused for 4 quarters we would not be sitting at 5-10 right now.

scourge
12-30-2010, 10:52 AM
1. Uncle BoB doesn't want to admit he was wrong in giving Kubiak the extention. Even though many at the time told Uncle BoB that he was making a mistake.


As with our former QB. Gives him an extension and hires a coach who says he can fix that lemon Carr of ours.

Revolution
12-30-2010, 11:55 AM
Bum and Dan are hawking a bad product. A lemon is a lemon. And what the Texans have is a lemon. I'm sorry Mr. McNair, but I'm not going to buy this product any longer. I'm sure you'll find another sap to take my place.

I've hitched my wagon to this team, but it is getting extremely frustrating. I don't know how much more I can take before I line up right behind you Lucky. I'm holding out hope this 'rumor' isn't true. If it is, then I will have to reassess after the news breaks.

Ugggghhhhhh!

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 12:16 PM
Bob,

Do not force me to become a Cowpie fan!!:boogereater::wadepalm:

Funny thing is that Cowboys fans would welcome you with open arms. I've got one that has a standing promise that he will buy me the custom real jersey if I would switch allegiances. While inept at the moment, at least they've got a winning tradition...and they're still in Texas.

Makes me feel all icky inside just thinking of it (not that I'm really contemplating it), but that's how pathetic the Texans have become when you are embarrassed to sport that losing brand on your garments and even [jokingly] daydream about this stuff.

Señor Stan
12-30-2010, 12:18 PM
While inept at the moment, at least they've got a winning tradition...and they're still in Texas.


Q: What do you call a Dallas Cowboy with a Super Bowl Ring

A: Old

Hookem Horns
12-30-2010, 12:29 PM
Hey, we might have the trump card. Does anyone know where Earl is hanging out these days? I know he sometimes has lunch at Third Base.

All we need to do is get him to admit that Kubiak needs to be fired and that Bob needs to bring in a real coach.

That would make a great headline. "Earl says Kubiak must go".

Earl trumps Bum, Dante, and anyone else.

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 12:32 PM
Q: What do you call a Dallas Cowboy with a Super Bowl Ring

A: Old

I understand Cowboy hatred having perpetuated much of it myself over the years.

But honestly, I'm finding it distasteful these days for Texans fans to make fun of any team that has more than one winning season.

Much less a team 5 Super Bowl championships and 9 Super Bowl appearances. :rake:

It's like Paris Hilton calling someone a slut.

Hookem Horns
12-30-2010, 12:37 PM
I understand Cowboy hatred having perpetuated much of it myself over the years.

But honestly, I'm finding it distasteful these days for Texans fans to make fun of any team that has more than one winning season.

Much less a team 5 Super Bowl championships and 9 Super Bowl appearances. :rake:

It's like Paris Hilton calling someone a slut.

OK, as Giants fan I think Señor Stan's joke was pretty funny.

houstonspartan
12-30-2010, 12:38 PM
I understand Cowboy hatred having perpetuated much of it myself over the years.

But honestly, I'm finding it distasteful these days for Texans fans to make fun of any team that has more than one winning season.

Much less a team 5 Super Bowl championships and 9 Super Bowl appearances. :rake:

It's like Paris Hilton calling someone a slut.

Fair point. I've always hated the Cowboys, but have always respected Jerry Jones fire and ambition.

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 12:45 PM
OK, as Giants fan I think Señor Stan's joke was pretty funny.

That's because you've got another team to take the pressure off of being a Texans fan. A team, I might add, with it's own deep tradition of championship history.

As a Houston Oilers/Texans fan with no other allegiances, I'm disgusted with the crap we are being represented with at the moment. It's all I've got and I find that depressing as a football fan.

And I didn't say that Señor Stan's joke wasn't funny (it is!), just that right now I'm disgusted with the inevitability of our myopic owner keeping a mediocre head coach for another year or three. Like seeing a forest for the trees, seeing humor through contempt becomes a difficult process. :winky:

False Start
12-30-2010, 01:01 PM
Q: What do you call a Dallas Cowboy with a Super Bowl Ring

A: Old

What do they call a drug ring in Dallas?

A huddle.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/rimshot-2.gif

Porky
12-30-2010, 01:38 PM
I totally agree with Herv. This is straight out of Central Casting. I'm actually insulted that Mcnair would trot out someone like Bum to try and make us think that icky tasting medicine isn't so bad afterall. I know some of those 12 IQ people will love it, but anyone with a brain larger than a lab mouse can see what's going on here.

I'm trying to decide if Bum is senile, or if I'll go senile before the Texans make the playoffs and make some real noise. In the last two years I have gone from revering Mcnoob to almost the point of hate (as an owner of this franchise only of course). He is clearly in the bottom 5 of owners in the league, is basically totally clueless on football issues... he not only accepts medicority but embraces it....and it's VERY clear that he doesn't care about winning. It's all about the benjamins in his wallet. Disgusting. I'm getting really, really close to just tossing my cookies.

And then there is this gem of a quote from Dan P

They’ve lost some heartbreaking games this year. But look at what we went through, like the 1-13 seasons (in 1972 and 1973). Sid (Gillman) comes in and turns it around (in 1974), then Bum comes in (as head coach in 1975), and all of a sudden we’ve got a different attitude. There was just a little bit of strut in our step. These guys can get that. They’re close. I think they’re going to be fine. They’ve got a good group.”


Ummm, Dan is that supposed to be an argument for keeping Kubiak? Have a couple more drinks. It will all start making sense soon. :wadepalm:

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2010, 01:40 PM
Here's a quote from Kubiak .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY&feature=related

Vinnie
12-30-2010, 02:28 PM
Where there's smoke there's fire. I think more and more this is going to be the end result.

Gary as our coach :kubepalm:

and

Wade as our DC. :wadepalm:

This is 100% happening. In fact, expect the news Monday. Take it to the bank (or your bookie).

Marcus
12-30-2010, 02:48 PM
I'm not going to read all the posts in this thread, but I've read enough to where there is this mindset that . . . .

. . . because you are fans "that financially support the team", therefore only your opinions should matter, and people like Bum or Dan's opinions should not???

I hate to bust all of your self-importance bubbles, but y'all couldn't possibly have it more bassackwards.

TEXANRED
12-30-2010, 02:52 PM
It's like Paris Hilton calling someone a slut.


Wait, did you just call the Texans a Talentless hack that is best known for sucking and blowing?

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 02:55 PM
Wait, did you just call the Texans a Talentless hack that is best known for sucking and blowing?

lol! The Houston Hiltons...hmmm...nice ring to it. :thinking:

Hookem Horns
12-30-2010, 02:56 PM
I updated the front page with Dan Pastorini's words.

http://www.texanstalk.com/

Porky
12-30-2010, 02:59 PM
I'm not going to read all the posts in this thread, but I've read enough to where there is this mindset that . . . .

. . . because you are fans "that financially support the team", therefore only your opinions should matter, and people like Bum or Dan's opinions should not???

I hate to bust all of your self-importance bubbles, but y'all couldn't possibly have it more bassackwards.

So a couple of people with close ties to the coach an owner....and an agenda to get family hired are more worthy of being heard than the paying customers? :wadepalm:

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 03:08 PM
Wait, did you just call the Texans a Talentless hack that is best known for sucking and blowing?
I saw the bj video. She looked really talented. I'd love to spend a night in Paris. Well... not anymore now that I'm married of course...

scourge
12-30-2010, 03:26 PM
Wait, did you just call the Texans a Talentless hack that is best known for sucking and blowing?

Sounds about right

scourge
12-30-2010, 03:36 PM
I'm not going to read all the posts in this thread, but I've read enough to where there is this mindset that . . . .

. . . because you are fans "that financially support the team", therefore only your opinions should matter, and people like Bum or Dan's opinions should not???

I hate to bust all of your self-importance bubbles, but y'all couldn't possibly have it more bassackwards.

Maybe, but we could actually have it less bassackwards.

Should our opinions matter and not what they think? No, but as noted in other threads, he isn't the be all end all authority on who is or isn't a good coach. Also, to think their(especially Bum's) opinions are without any bias is incredibly naive.

I respect Bum, but that doesn't mean his opinion should be held nearly as high as some seem to think.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2010, 04:01 PM
I saw the bj video. She looked really talented. I'd love to spend a night in Paris. Well... not anymore now that I'm married of course...

She could be the coach ya know . She may blow a few small ones but she ain't gonna choke on the big ones . :kubepalm:

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 04:02 PM
I hate to break it to everyone but I don't give a crap what yall think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

I hate to break it to myself but yall don't give a crap about what I think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

Your opinion really means nothing. My opinion really means nothing.

djohn2oo8
12-30-2010, 04:08 PM
I hate to break it to everyone but I don't give a crap what yall think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

I hate to break it to myself but yall don't give a crap about what I think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

Your opinion really means nothing. My opinion really means nothing.

As fans our opinion means something. McNair should find that out real quick

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 04:15 PM
I hate to break it to everyone but I don't give a crap what yall think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

I hate to break it to myself but yall don't give a crap about what I think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

Your opinion really means nothing. My opinion really means nothing.

Aww man. I give a crap what you and most others think. Your opinion matters to me. It's why I post. The difference is that neither you nor I are disillusioned into thinking that what we say matters to the Texans.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 04:17 PM
As fans our opinion means something. McNair should find that out real quick
McNair is going to keep Kubiak for next season and hire a DC like Phillips if he thinks that's the quickest way to get to the playoffs. Boycot this game, don't show up, make signs, etc. But that's not going to change what he decides to do this offseason. He knows the fans are restless and hungry. He knows all we want is a good team and to be watching our team in the postseason. He's going to make his decisions based on what he thinks will get us that product. He's not going to hire Coach X or Coach Y because the fans want that done.

Señor Stan
12-30-2010, 04:19 PM
The difference is that neither you nor I are disillusioned into thinking that what we say matters to the Texans.

Well so much for that "open letter to Bob McNair" I was gonna post. Thanks Nitro.

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 04:24 PM
Well so much for that "open letter to Bob McNair" I was gonna post. Thanks Nitro.

:spit:

You can and should write it. Just treat it as a comment card.

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 04:26 PM
Maybe, but we could actually have it less bassackwards.

Should our opinions matter and not what they think? No, but as noted in other threads, he isn't the be all end all authority on who is or isn't a good coach. Also, to think their(especially Bum's) opinions are without any bias is incredibly naive.

I respect Bum, but that doesn't mean his opinion should be held nearly as high as some seem to think.

I agree. And with an obvious bias due to the potential interest in hiring his son, he's got a personal stake in Kubiak staying as HC. There is nothing objective about his opinions regarding the current state of the Texans.

I hate to break it to everyone but I don't give a crap what yall think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

I hate to break it to myself but yall don't give a crap about what I think about McNair, Kubiak or any of our players.

Your opinion really means nothing. My opinion really means nothing.

Without opinions, this forum becomes meaningless.

McNair is going to keep Kubiak for next season and hire a DC like Phillips if he thinks that's the quickest way to get to the playoffs. Boycot this game, don't show up, make signs, etc. But that's not going to change what he decides to do this offseason. He knows the fans are restless and hungry. He knows all we want is a good team and to be watching our team in the postseason. He's going to make his decisions based on what he thinks will get us that product. He's not going to hire Coach X or Coach Y because the fans want that done.

Does he really (bolded)? Because if he knows this and keeps Kubiak, then he just doesn't care about his customers' perspectives because he knows they will keep lining his pockets with lots of money for a shoddy product, and if he doesn't know and keeps Kubiak, then he's just completely out of touch with his team's fanbase.

Loyalty and likability should have absolutely nothing to do with making decisions about football operations when the evidence is overwhelming that keeping the status quo is accepting mediocrity at it's worst.

McNair should not hire Coach X or Coach Y because the fans want that done, but rather hire them because he is tired of owning a losing franchise and has a drive to building a winning product. Fans are only demanding what our owner should be demanding at the end of the day.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 04:27 PM
Aww man. I give a crap what you and most others think. Your opinion matters to me. It's why I post. The difference is that neither you nor I are disillusioned into thinking that what we say matters to the Texans.

Thank you and right back at you. ;) I've becomed hardened, grumpy and scroogy with all the negativity on this board lately. I skim through peoples posts and they're all putting each other down. I make a comment about how I would not like Coach X and I get blasted for being a Kubiak-lover that likes lollipops and rainbows. People have a foot on this side of the fence and a foot on that side of the fence because they don't see one clear cut path... but get hammered because they make a good comment about a player/coach that others hate.

Every now and then I come to well thought out posts that provide a constructive dialogue and I read it. Even if it's not the same opinion I have, I appreciate it because it has very sound reasons. This board used to be filled with that, left and right everyday. Over the last few weeks this place is turning into the ratardedness over on the 'official boards' at ht.com. I havn't visited that place in so long because it's like trying to reason with a bunch of kindergardeners.


This time over the last, I'd say week or 2, has really put me in a place I don't want to be. And it has nothing to do with the Texans, Kubiak, McNair, Smith or any of that. I am truly becoming a stronger and stronger Kubiak supporter just to piss some of you people off. That's actually one of the biggest reasons why I want the Kubiak/Phillips combo... it's so I can laugh at everyone going crazy around here pissing and moaning. That's kind of turning into a new hobby of mine. I am content with myself now... this good. I just needed to talk it out.

Sorry for the longwinded post/rant. NitroHonda, I do like reading your posts and I do like hearing your opinions. Rep! (If I can...)lol

djohn2oo8
12-30-2010, 04:28 PM
McNair is going to keep Kubiak for next season and hire a DC like Phillips if he thinks that's the quickest way to get to the playoffs. Boycot this game, don't show up, make signs, etc. But that's not going to change what he decides to do this offseason. He knows the fans are restless and hungry. He knows all we want is a good team and to be watching our team in the postseason. He's going to make his decisions based on what he thinks will get us that product. He's not going to hire Coach X or Coach Y because the fans want that done.

You can only keep fielding a bad product for so long before it stops selling. He can do whatever the hell he wants, he just better not expect for his product to get any better

Señor Stan
12-30-2010, 04:40 PM
I honestly think this is less about loyalty and more about doing things the "right" way. I think it is really, really important to McNair. It is what has gotten him this far in life and it is going to be difficult for him to let go of someone who is "doing it the right way."

Unfortunately, I think he has the wrong guy doing it the right way.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 04:46 PM
You can only keep fielding a bad product for so long before it stops selling. He can do whatever the hell he wants, he just better not expect for his product to get any better

Right. My feeling is that if he goes Kubiak/Phillips route, he thinks that product on the field will improve. His decision is for sustained improvement. He's not going to keep Kubiak just to spite all the fans. They bottom line is we want playoffs. He's going to make decisions based on what he thinks will get us there the quickest and keep us there the longest. End of story.

People have different opinions on how that will happen. A lot of fans have lost faith in Kubiak and think a different coach is the way to go. McNair may not have. 5 years is too long, but McNair may think that 6th year with Phillips added is all it will take. If we end up going to the playoffs next year and the next 4-5 years after that winning division titles.... all will be forgotten. We'll love it. That's all we want. That's what McNair wants. At the end of the day we don't really care who took us there... we just want to be there.

McNair knows if the Texans continue to do poorly and field a terrible product the fans will give up. His decision on who the HC will be is going to be made with that in mind. About the product on the field. His goal is to get the people in place that will get us there. A lot of fans have given up on Gary... McNair may still think he can do it.

Say what you will about that. Blame him for not seeing what the fans see. But the people he puts in charge of the team are going to be there because he thinks they can deliver what he and the fans truly want.

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 05:15 PM
It's really about $$$$.

I'm looking forward to next yrs 4 game losing streak.

And hearing all of the supporters saying lets give him one more yr.

Isn't that what they said after last yrs conytract extention? TK/Marcus/matrix

houstonhurricane
12-30-2010, 05:26 PM
Right. My feeling is that if he goes Kubiak/Phillips route, he thinks that product on the field will improve. His decision is for sustained improvement. He's not going to keep Kubiak just to spite all the fans. They bottom line is we want playoffs. He's going to make decisions based on what he thinks will get us there the quickest and keep us there the longest. End of story.

People have different opinions on how that will happen. A lot of fans have lost faith in Kubiak and think a different coach is the way to go. McNair may not have. 5 years is too long, but McNair may think that 6th year with Phillips added is all it will take. If we end up going to the playoffs next year and the next 4-5 years after that winning division titles.... all will be forgotten. We'll love it. That's all we want. That's what McNair wants. At the end of the day we don't really care who took us there... we just want to be there.

McNair knows if the Texans continue to do poorly and field a terrible product the fans will give up. His decision on who the HC will be is going to be made with that in mind. About the product on the field. His goal is to get the people in place that will get us there. A lot of fans have given up on Gary... McNair may still think he can do it.

Say what you will about that. Blame him for not seeing what the fans see. But the people he puts in charge of the team are going to be there because he thinks they can deliver what he and the fans truly want.

True enough. However, just like our GM and coach we must look to past performance as indicators of the future. I have not seen much in the way of McNair's football-related decisions to give me hope that this bandaid approach is going to be the panacea he so desperately wants it to be.

Each and every one of us will be thrilled if this works out next year, but I can't imagine the level of disdain and disappointment if it doesn't and we watch the Cowher/Gruden/Harbaugh's of the world take struggling teams and provide immediate, positive impacts.

GP
12-30-2010, 05:29 PM
For all we know, this little event was only Bum and Dan making a plea to Bob to keep McNair...with the idea of it helping Wade get the DC position here.

Bob isn't going to deny a sit-down with someone like Bum Phillips. I mean, Bum Phillips is toward the end of his life and is a football icon in Texas.

So you have to think that there stands a chance that Bob was only entertaining an old man who had requested a sit-down. Do you guys think McNair called and asked Bum to come share his opinions/ideas with him? I mean, I am a big conspiracy theorist on some stuff, but this doesn't pass the test IMO.

It seems, to me, that Bum and another guy just wanted to get their two cents in (with Bob) because...and I say BECAUSE...they have heard that Kubiak is gone at end of season. And they are trying to save his job, half for legitimate reasons but a stronger half for the benefit of getting Wade a job as DC here.

It reeks of begging, not of an NFL owner staging anything for the benefit of being able to make use tolerate the I Now Pronounce You Gary and Wade announcement that's being theorized.

It could still end up happening, but I don't think it would have been due to having a sit-down with old man Bum. Just my hunch.

I think you guys are getting stir crazy and are connecting dots that aren't really there. Just relax. It's either going to happen, or it isn't. I will be pissed off if Gary Kubiak survives and gets his last year. That's a Lame Duck year IMO, which is a total waste for all involved.

This is a damn trip, that's all I know. LOL.

GP
12-30-2010, 05:32 PM
I want to know if Hookem's signature with the word "WARY" in it is also a funny little combination of the "W" in Wade and the "ary" in Gary.

If so, that is some damn brilliant work by Kevin.

houstonspartan
12-30-2010, 05:36 PM
For all we know, this little event was only Bum and Dan making a plea to Bob to keep McNair...with the idea of it helping Wade get the DC position here.

Bob isn't going to deny a sit-down with someone like Bum Phillips. I mean, Bum Phillips is toward the end of his life and is a football icon in Texas.

So you have to think that there stands a chance that Bob was only entertaining an old man who had requested a sit-down. Do you guys think McNair called and asked Bum to come share his opinions/ideas with him? I mean, I am a big conspiracy theorist on some stuff, but this doesn't pass the test IMO.

It seems, to me, that Bum and another guy just wanted to get their two cents in (with Bob) because...and I say BECAUSE...they have heard that Kubiak is gone at end of season. And they are trying to save his job, half for legitimate reasons but a stronger half for the benefit of getting Wade a job as DC here.

It reeks of begging, not of an NFL owner staging anything for the benefit of being able to make use tolerate the I Now Pronounce You Gary and Wade announcement that's being theorized.

It could still end up happening, but I don't think it would have been due to having a sit-down with old man Bum. Just my hunch.

I think you guys are getting stir crazy and are connecting dots that aren't really there. Just relax. It's either going to happen, or it isn't. I will be pissed off if Gary Kubiak survives and gets his last year. That's a Lame Duck year IMO, which is a total waste for all involved.

This is a damn trip, that's all I know. LOL.

GP, I really don't think Wade Phillips has to beg for a job in the NFL. He would have landed a good gig somewhere eventually.

houstonhurricane
12-30-2010, 05:36 PM
For all we know, this little event was only Bum and Dan making a plea to Bob to keep McNair...with the idea of it helping Wade get the DC position here.

Bob isn't going to deny a sit-down with someone like Bum Phillips. I mean, Bum Phillips is toward the end of his life and is a football icon in Texas.

So you have to think that there stands a chance that Bob was only entertaining an old man who had requested a sit-down. Do you guys think McNair called and asked Bum to come share his opinions/ideas with him? I mean, I am a big conspiracy theorist on some stuff, but this doesn't pass the test IMO.

It seems, to me, that Bum and another guy just wanted to get their two cents in (with Bob) because...and I say BECAUSE...they have heard that Kubiak is gone at end of season. And they are trying to save his job, half for legitimate reasons but a stronger half for the benefit of getting Wade a job as DC here.

It reeks of begging, not of an NFL owner staging anything for the benefit of being able to make use tolerate the I Now Pronounce You Gary and Wade announcement that's being theorized.

It could still end up happening, but I don't think it would have been due to having a sit-down with old man Bum. Just my hunch.

I think you guys are getting stir crazy and are connecting dots that aren't really there. Just relax. It's either going to happen, or it isn't. I will be pissed off if Gary Kubiak survives and gets his last year. That's a Lame Duck year IMO, which is a total waste for all involved.

This is a damn trip, that's all I know. LOL.

I am 100% confident that the team brought Bum and Dan P. to the facility to help sell the concept of keeping Kubiak and bringing in Phillips as DC. I don't necessarily think that what Bum did or did not say to McNair had any impact on his decision, which was already made...

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 05:42 PM
I want to know if Hookem's signature with the word "WARY" in it is also a funny little combination of the "W" in Wade and the "ary" in Gary.

If so, that is some damn brilliant work by Kevin.

I believe that was his intent. I love it! :heh:

GP
12-30-2010, 05:46 PM
GP, I really don't think Wade Phillips has to beg for a job in the NFL. He would have landed a good gig somewhere eventually.

I never said Wade himself was begging for a job.

You guys are failing to realize that Bum Phillips is a father. A father to Wade. Look at Bum's comments. It's clear that he desires his son to be a coach for a Houston team. Hell, for any team.

Dads, when they get older, lose a lot of perspective on things. They get overly sentimental, or at least most of them do. Bum, IMO, was there of his on accord (not at Wade's request) and was only trying to do what a dad does: Help his son. And hopefully help him be in Houston.

I disagree with you on this. I just now got to my computer, having been gone all day long. After reading every comment on every page of this thread, and having thought thoroughly about each person's comment, I have decided that this is nothing more than a couple of old-timers who begged McNair for an audience...and begged for Kubiak to stay (mostly as an effort to increase the odds that Wade comes in as DC).

They are football fans, too, and they think (more than likely) that Kubiak got it right on offense but needs someone like Wade to improve the defense). There is 50% true, honest-to-goodness fandom in those two guys' hearts and there's also 50% bias and sentimental nature in regards to thinking that Kubiak would bring in Wade.

IMO, I don't think this was a McNair setup. I think it was two old-timers and McNair wasn't going to snub them. To have denied them an audience, IMO, fails the McNair Marketing test. Period.

What was he supposed to do? "No. I can't meet with you." Hell, this is likely only one of very few times Bum Phillips has ever requested such a sit-down before. McNair is a noob owner. He values a good image, and entertaining the old man was a gracious act, IMO. Nothing more. Nothing less.

And even if it ends up happening, it (to me) falls under "Was gonna' happen even if Bum never met with Bob."

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 06:16 PM
Does he really (bolded)? Because if he knows this and keeps Kubiak, then he just doesn't care about his customers' perspectives because he knows they will keep lining his pockets with lots of money for a shoddy product, and if he doesn't know and keeps Kubiak, then he's just completely out of touch with his team's fanbase.

Oh c'mon, step away from the haterade. McNair is undoubtedly aware of fan sentiment but may truly believe keeping Kubiak is the best course to success. Making huge decisions based on which way the sheeple are twitching would be caring more about lining his pockets than attempting to build a winning franchise.

JB
12-30-2010, 06:27 PM
Oh c'mon, step away from the haterade. McNair is undoubtedly aware of fan sentiment but may truly believe keeping Kubiak is the best course to success. Making huge decisions based on which way the sheeple are twitching would be caring more about lining his pockets than attempting to build a winning franchise.

There you go trying to be logical again...

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 06:37 PM
Oh c'mon, step away from the haterade. McNair is undoubtedly aware of fan sentiment but may truly believe keeping Kubiak is the best course to success. Making huge decisions based on which way the sheeple are twitching would be caring more about lining his pockets than attempting to build a winning franchise.

It's not haterade, dude. Sad and disappointing that you even brought that card . :rolleyes:

You think questioning the owner's decision making process is hateful? Give me a freakin' break.

Hey look, THE REST OF MY POINT that you obviously chose to ignore in your rush to defend the owner:

McNair should not hire Coach X or Coach Y because the fans want that done, but rather hire them because he is tired of owning a losing franchise and has a drive to building a winning product. Fans are only demanding what our owner should be demanding at the end of the day.

How about that, I just made the same point that you tried to correct me on. :hmmm:

We hear all this nonsense about McNair's desire to emulate the championship teams, but yet the core of their philosophies of success is winning. And winning attitudes do not embrace perpetual mediocrity.

If he thinks keeping Kubiak, the perpetual mediocre head coach, is the best course for success, then perhaps it's a matter of semantics regarding the definition of success. 36-43 is garbage and not successful as it pertains to a winning football team. However, consecutive sellouts is successful from a business perspective. So perhaps you have a point with your defense of the man and I just define success differently than he does.

Hookem Horns
12-30-2010, 06:45 PM
I want to know if Hookem's signature with the word "WARY" in it is also a funny little combination of the "W" in Wade and the "ary" in Gary.

If so, that is some damn brilliant work by Kevin.

Of course it was. Killips or Philiak doesn't quite work. Wade and Gary = Wary

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 06:49 PM
It's not haterade, dude. Sad and disappointing that you even brought that card . :rolleyes:

You think questioning the owner's decision making process is hateful? Give me a freakin' break.

You spun it with no possibility of McNair honestly believing the best course was to keep Kubiak - he either had to be aware, greedy and uncaring or totally out of touch.

Hey look, THE REST OF MY POINT that you obviously chose to ignore in your rush to defend the owner:

How about that, I just made the same point that you tried to correct me on. :hmmm:

Didn't ignore it. I just don't agree with all this look into his heart, doesn't care about winning, only cares about money, yada yada crud going on. I don't believe for a minute he doesn't care about winning. Now he may be making a mistake keeping Kubiak but to me that is what it should be called, a mistake in judgment not some greedy apathy.

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 07:03 PM
I never said Wade himself was begging for a job.

You guys are failing to realize that Bum Phillips is a father. A father to Wade. Look at Bum's comments. It's clear that he desires his son to be a coach for a Houston team. Hell, for any team.

Dads, when they get older, lose a lot of perspective on things. They get overly sentimental, or at least most of them do. Bum, IMO, was there of his on accord (not at Wade's request) and was only trying to do what a dad does: Help his son. And hopefully help him be in Houston.

I disagree with you on this. I just now got to my computer, having been gone all day long. After reading every comment on every page of this thread, and having thought thoroughly about each person's comment, I have decided that this is nothing more than a couple of old-timers who begged McNair for an audience...and begged for Kubiak to stay (mostly as an effort to increase the odds that Wade comes in as DC).

They are football fans, too, and they think (more than likely) that Kubiak got it right on offense but needs someone like Wade to improve the defense). There is 50% true, honest-to-goodness fandom in those two guys' hearts and there's also 50% bias and sentimental nature in regards to thinking that Kubiak would bring in Wade.

IMO, I don't think this was a McNair setup. I think it was two old-timers and McNair wasn't going to snub them. To have denied them an audience, IMO, fails the McNair Marketing test. Period.

What was he supposed to do? "No. I can't meet with you." Hell, this is likely only one of very few times Bum Phillips has ever requested such a sit-down before. McNair is a noob owner. He values a good image, and entertaining the old man was a gracious act, IMO. Nothing more. Nothing less.

And even if it ends up happening, it (to me) falls under "Was gonna' happen even if Bum never met with Bob."

You're underestimating the Texans PR dept and The benevolent Bob McNair.

Fact Bob McNair doesn't give 2 ******s what his fan base wants.

The problem is the fan base is starting to wake up to his game.

It may take 10 yrs but I could see Bob McNairs name being mentioned in he same breath with Bud Adams in this town.

Dishman
12-30-2010, 07:13 PM
Of course it was. Killips or Philiak doesn't quite work. Wade and Gary = Wary

Phubiak!

Sounds kinda like FUBAR.

Grams
12-30-2010, 07:16 PM
Looks like Dumb and Dumber.

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 07:18 PM
You spun it with no possibility of McNair honestly believing the best course was to keep Kubiak - he either had to be aware, greedy and uncaring or totally out of touch.



Didn't ignore it. I just don't agree with all this look into his heart, doesn't care about winning, only cares about money, yada yada crud going on. I don't believe for a minute he doesn't care about winning. Now he may be making a mistake keeping Kubiak but to me that is what it should be called, a mistake in judgment not some greedy apathy.

Then perhaps he really, really wants to win, but, he's just a 'stupid' football team owner that is a very successful businessman. 'Stupid' simply meaning that he's not smart with regards to running a winning football team [needed to quantify the word]. I'm not implying that he's not educated or that he's ignorant, just that he's not good at hiring people that can build a consistently winning product.

54-89 is a testament to that stupidity. Extending Carr's contract was stupid. Giving Kubiak an extension because one winning season was stupid. Hiring a GM and coaches with no previous experience at those positions was stupid. Handing all the power to those inexperienced noobs was stupid. For him to say that we're on the right track during a losing streak? Clear as day stupid right there. The results of 9 seasons speak for themselves.

And apparently he thinks we're that stupid by trotting out Bum and Dan.

I've never said he doesn't care about winning. I think ALL owners want to win. But to what degree? And how much of that desire is tempered with all the other identity issues that seem to permeate this franchise?

I don't know what's in the guy's heart. All we've got to judge the man is his M.O., and based on his history, I personally believe that he's got a lot more learning to do before he gets it right.

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 07:44 PM
Of course mistakes have been made such as extending Carr. Bad results don't equal stupid though. Hiring a 1st time HC is not stupid - witness 7 of 8 divisions being led by 1st time HC's.

Never mind - I'll just step back and watch the everything the Texans have done is stupid train roll on.

GuerillaBlack
12-30-2010, 07:47 PM
Of course mistakes have been made such as extending Carr. Bad results don't equal stupid though. Hiring a 1st time HC is not stupid - witness 7 of 8 divisions being led by 1st time HC's.

Never mind - I'll just step back and watch the everything the Texans have done is stupid train roll on.

How long did it take those 1st time HCs to at least get into the playoffs?

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 07:51 PM
Of course mistakes have been made such as extending Carr. Bad results don't equal stupid though. Hiring a 1st time HC is not stupid - witness 7 of 8 divisions being led by 1st time HC's.

Never mind - I'll just step back and watch the everything the Texans have done is stupid train roll on.

That train has many cars.

I would like to know what your thoughts of the Texans on field product are?

What mistakes have they made?

Where should the on field product go from here?

Or is every thing hunky dory in Texans land?

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 07:51 PM
How long did it take those 1st time HCs to at least get into the playoffs?

You're missing the point. That wasn't about defending Kubiak. The point was hiring 1st time HC's isn't stupid as a general principle.

Where should the on field product go from here?

Or is every thing hunky dory in Texans land?

No everything is not hunky dory. I have explained my position on the coaching/gm situation in other threads. But I am not going to behave like a pissed off four year old and start acting like everything the Texans have ever done is wrong and start ascribing ill intent to every member of the organization either.

houstonspartan
12-30-2010, 07:54 PM
I never said Wade himself was begging for a job.

You guys are failing to realize that Bum Phillips is a father. A father to Wade. Look at Bum's comments. It's clear that he desires his son to be a coach for a Houston team. Hell, for any team.

Dads, when they get older, lose a lot of perspective on things. They get overly sentimental, or at least most of them do. Bum, IMO, was there of his on accord (not at Wade's request) and was only trying to do what a dad does: Help his son. And hopefully help him be in Houston.

I disagree with you on this. I just now got to my computer, having been gone all day long. After reading every comment on every page of this thread, and having thought thoroughly about each person's comment, I have decided that this is nothing more than a couple of old-timers who begged McNair for an audience...and begged for Kubiak to stay (mostly as an effort to increase the odds that Wade comes in as DC).

They are football fans, too, and they think (more than likely) that Kubiak got it right on offense but needs someone like Wade to improve the defense). There is 50% true, honest-to-goodness fandom in those two guys' hearts and there's also 50% bias and sentimental nature in regards to thinking that Kubiak would bring in Wade.

IMO, I don't think this was a McNair setup. I think it was two old-timers and McNair wasn't going to snub them. To have denied them an audience, IMO, fails the McNair Marketing test. Period.

What was he supposed to do? "No. I can't meet with you." Hell, this is likely only one of very few times Bum Phillips has ever requested such a sit-down before. McNair is a noob owner. He values a good image, and entertaining the old man was a gracious act, IMO. Nothing more. Nothing less.

And even if it ends up happening, it (to me) falls under "Was gonna' happen even if Bum never met with Bob."

No, I see your point about parents. That's what parents do, regardless of the age of the child.

I also see your point about this not being orchestrated by McNair.

But here's the problem, even if McNair didn't create this, he's an easily infuenced person, and could likely get caught up in the nostalgia of Houston football.

Think about it: Bum's comments are exactly what he wants to hear.

JB
12-30-2010, 07:55 PM
Of course mistakes have been made such as extending Carr. Bad results don't equal stupid though. Hiring a 1st time HC is not stupid - witness 7 of 8 divisions being led by 1st time HC's.

Never mind - I'll just step back and watch the everything the Texans have done is stupid train roll on.

Reading this board the last couple of weeks is like going to the dentist office. You know you are just there for a cleaning, but after hearing all the drilling, it feels like you were the one getting the root canal.

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 08:14 PM
You're missing the point. That wasn't about defending Kubiak. The point was hiring 1st time HC's isn't stupid as a general principle.



No everything is not hunky dory. I have explained my position on the coaching/gm situation in other threads. But I am not going to behave like a pissed off four year old and start acting like everything the Texans have ever done is wrong and start ascribing ill intent to every member of the organization either.

I really would like to know your position on the state of the Texans and what you would do to correct these problems?

Can you provide me the posts that state your positions?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-30-2010, 08:16 PM
Reading this board the last couple of weeks is like going to the dentist office. You know you are just there for a cleaning, but after hearing all the drilling, it feels like you were the one getting the root canal.


Posts like this only add to that drilling noise you are hearing.

axman40
12-30-2010, 08:17 PM
http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/117622.jpg (http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/545821/Scum+Sense/)
:)
(http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/545821/Scum+Sense/)

JPPT1974
12-30-2010, 08:19 PM
Well after this weekend is over, the last weekend. We shall see what will happen as Kubiak has the potential. Just needs to find chemistry and rhythem. Give him time!

GuerillaBlack
12-30-2010, 08:20 PM
Well after this weekend is over, the last weekend. We shall see what will happen as Kubiak has the potential. Just needs to find chemistry and rhythem. Give him time!

:kubepalm:

As if five years wasn't enough time.

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 08:55 PM
I really would like to know your position on the state of the Texans and what you would do to correct these problems?

Can you provide me the posts that state your positions?

In short, I want to see dramatic change but I am not set on any one result. I would be happy with a coaching change but not to just any Gruden, Billick or Harry. I don't like the idea of retreads who have failed in their area of specialty. I would want a Cowher or Harbaugh. If not that then I would dump Bush and Gibbs and try to get an experienced DC. Most likely that would be a successful DC who failed at HC like Capers as they may be available and a currently successful DC will not be. In this scenario I would prefer Smith to get the axe as well.

GP
12-30-2010, 09:17 PM
In short, I want to see dramatic change but I am not set on any one result. I would be happy with a coaching change but not to just any Gruden, Billick or Harry. I don't like the idea of retreads who have failed in their area of specialty. I would want a Cowher or Harbaugh. If not that then I would dump Bush and Gibbs and try to get an experienced DC. Most likely that would be a successful DC who failed at HC like Capers as they may be available and a currently successful DC will not be. In this scenario I would prefer Smith to get the axe as well.

So you're saying the offense's inability to play a full game, to always be playing from behind (except for the Broncos game), and that Gary Kubiak's tunnel vision as it relates to being THE playcaller during every game, as well as him formulating every single not-so-brilliant and ever-so-predictable gameplan (by his own admission after the Broncos game, btw, except he informs us he takes input from all involved. LOL.)...you're saying that you're fine with this craptastic head coach coming back for a repeat performance one more year in 2011?

On top of that, a guy like Wade Phillips is still on the Texans staff as DC after 2011 with a nice little springboard [OPPORTUNITY] into the HC spot when they axe Gary Kubiak one year from Monday?

FYI: His contract is up after 2011. That's a Lame Duck year in 2011. Hell, our team might tank on Game 1 of the regular season. No way does Gary Kubiak stand a reasonable chance during a Lame Duck season. Part of me thinks the 2-year extension was to see what he could do in Year 1 of the extension and then move on without Kubiak by axing him before Year 2. This gave everyone some breathing room, especially the players who have to play for their coach.

Yeah, I don't think your plan is a very good plan. One more year of the same crap from the same HC, instead of just getting it over with and giving someone else a shot at it, doesn't add up. The Lame Duck year being the major pitfall of your plan (which is based on your "if we can't get Harbaugh or Cowher and have to get a new DC" caveat). I think you're looking at Kubiak as an o-coord instead of as being the HC who is over the whole team. Even if Wade Phillips or Fred Potlicker or Danny Dorito gave us a Top 5 defense next year, there's still the issue of Gary Kubiak being an epic FAIL with guiding the offense for 4 quarters each week.

I don't want Gruden either, but at this point what are we exactly missing out on if we don't have Gary Kubiak here next year? And I can tolerate Rick Smith for another 4+ years if it means a new coaching staff. I don't like him and yet I don't dislike him either. He is here. I think he's going to be here a long time, too, and so we have to be ready for that IMO. Accept it, but hope for possibly a post-Draft departure ala Casserly.

Did I mention I don't like your plan (if we can't get Cowher or Harbaugh, obviously)? Don't like it at all, especially if it meant Wade Phillips sitting there in prime position to swoop down and grab the HC position in 2012. And that's dang likely to happen.

Honoring Earl 34
12-30-2010, 09:24 PM
In short, I want to see dramatic change but I am not set on any one result. I would be happy with a coaching change but not to just any Gruden, Billick or Harry. I don't like the idea of retreads who have failed in their area of specialty. I would want a Cowher or Harbaugh. If not that then I would dump Bush and Gibbs and try to get an experienced DC. Most likely that would be a successful DC who failed at HC like Capers as they may be available and a currently successful DC will not be. In this scenario I would prefer Smith to get the axe as well.

If this is coming from the top , then what's a coaching change gonna do . What if Bob tells his GM I want to put an extra emphasis on character and Rick gives a good boy a 1.1 multipier , speed a .9 , size .9 , strength .8 , and so on . It isn't going to matter who the coach is .

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 09:29 PM
FYI: His contract is up after 2011. That's a Lame Duck year in 2011.

FYI - his contract is up after 2012.

As for the rest of your as usual verbose post, same old blah, blah, blah.

If this is coming from the top , then what's a coaching change gonna do . What if Bob tells his GM I want to put an extra emphasis on character and Rick gives a good boy a 1.1 multipier , speed a .9 , size .9 , strength .8 , and so on . It isn't going to matter who the coach is .

None of us know that. Can't base decisions on info you don't have.

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 09:30 PM
So you're saying the offense's inability to play a full game, to always be playing from behind (except for the Broncos game), and that Gary Kubiak's tunnel vision as it relates to being THE playcaller during every game, as well as him formulating every single not-so-brilliant and ever-so-predictable gameplan (by his own admission after the Broncos game, btw, except he informs us he takes input from all involved. LOL.)...you're saying that you're fine with this craptastic head coach coming back for a repeat performance one more year in 2011?

On top of that, a guy like Wade Phillips is still on the Texans staff as DC after 2011 with a nice little springboard [OPPORTUNITY] into the HC spot when they axe Gary Kubiak one year from Monday?

FYI: His contract is up after 2011. That's a Lame Duck year in 2011. Hell, our team might tank on Game 1 of the regular season. No way does Gary Kubiak stand a reasonable chance during a Lame Duck season. Part of me thinks the 2-year extension was to see what he could do in Year 1 of the extension and then move on without Kubiak by axing him before Year 2. This gave everyone some breathing room, especially the players who have to play for their coach.

Yeah, I don't think your plan is a very good plan. One more year of the same crap from the same HC, instead of just getting it over with and giving someone else a shot at it, doesn't add up. The Lame Duck year being the major pitfall of your plan (which is based on your "if we can't get Harbaugh or Cowher and have to get a new DC" caveat). I think you're looking at Kubiak as an o-coord instead of as being the HC who is over the whole team. Even if Wade Phillips or Fred Potlicker or Danny Dorito gave us a Top 5 defense next year, there's still the issue of Gary Kubiak being an epic FAIL with guiding the offense for 4 quarters each week.

I don't want Gruden either, but at this point what are we exactly missing out on if we don't have Gary Kubiak here next year? And I can tolerate Rick Smith for another 4+ years if it means a new coaching staff. I don't like him and yet I don't dislike him either. He is here. I think he's going to be here a long time, too, and so we have to be ready for that IMO. Accept it, but hope for possibly a post-Draft departure ala Casserly.

Did I mention I don't like your plan (if we can't get Cowher or Harbaugh, obviously)? Don't like it at all, especially if it meant Wade Phillips sitting there in prime position to swoop down and grab the HC position in 2012. And that's dang likely to happen.

No. It was a 3 year extension through 2012.

GP
12-30-2010, 09:36 PM
No. It was a 3 year extension through 2012.

I thought it was only a two-year extension? It seriously is through 2012?

Well then, we're screwed. Period.

Damn that sucks. Sucks feet.

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 09:40 PM
I thought it was only a two-year extension? It seriously is through 2012?.

This year would have been the last year of his original contract. Last year they signed him to a two year extension meaning he had three more years including this one.

GP
12-30-2010, 09:49 PM
This year would have been the last year of his original contract. Last year they signed him to a two year extension meaning he had three more years including this one.

Never even saw that one-year remaining as being part of the extension. Completely whiffed on that one.

OK, so now I am officially reversing course. It's no gamble to think he'll be here for one more hurrah. It would definitely be the last year unless a miracle turn-around happens and they extend him (again).

Ugggh.

And of course Bum would angle for Wade to be the DC. It sets Wade up nicely to be our Jason Garrett at any point in time. Capers gets canned, Wade slides into the HC spot. Poof.

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 09:51 PM
This year would have been the last year of his original contract. Last year they signed him to a two year extension meaning he had three more years including this one.

:headbang: **edit. That's not the smiley I was looking for. Bangs head is what I meant. We have way too many smileys. Lol.

Right. Didn't someone claim that McNair tried to extend Kubiak for 4 more years? Any truth to that?

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 10:03 PM
Of course mistakes have been made such as extending Carr. Bad results don't equal stupid though. Hiring a 1st time HC is not stupid - witness 7 of 8 divisions being led by 1st time HC's.

Never mind - I'll just step back and watch the everything the Texans have done is stupid train roll on.

I never said that hiring a first time head coach was stupid. Lots of teams hire coaches without experience at HC. But, how many of them also hire a first time GM to go with that coach? And then hire inexperienced OC and DC, as well?

C'mon, man, you can't defend all the stupid mistakes by this owner as mere mistakes in judgment. You could make that case for hiring Casserly and Capers, but with the Kubiak Kids Club, he appeared to want some kind of fairy tale story for his franchise that has fail written all over it.

I had no problem with hiring Kubiak. But, he should have defined the position and paired him with a veteran GM to keep him in check while ensuring the rest of the football operations weren't going to experience the learning curve of a new GM, as well.

We've all made stupid mistakes. Why is McNair exempt? Sometimes, man, mistakes are just stupidity on display. Carr is case in point. Everyone but McNair and Kubiak were calling bust on him, but they persisted in wasting a season trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

The fans eventually woke up to the realization of Carr well before McNair did, and it's the same thing with Kubiak. We're going to see another year (or two) wasted on McNair's myopic vision of "being on the right track" to nowhere.

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 10:04 PM
In short, I want to see dramatic change but I am not set on any one result. I would be happy with a coaching change but not to just any Gruden, Billick or Harry. I don't like the idea of retreads who have failed in their area of specialty. I would want a Cowher or Harbaugh. If not that then I would dump Bush and Gibbs and try to get an experienced DC. Most likely that would be a successful DC who failed at HC like Capers as they may be available and a currently successful DC will not be. In this scenario I would prefer Smith to get the axe as well.

While getting the best should be the Texans the best Cowher,Harbaugh you have to pay the best to get the best and I believe the Great fans of the Houston Texans deserve this. We've done our part to make this franchise successful. Now it's time that our faith in this franchise be reciprocated.

BTW I would consider Billick/Gruden to be superior to Kubiak. Do you really think the DC thing is the best way to go.

This team needs to have a FO enima. IMHO In order for this team to reach the hights that all of the Great Fans of the Houston Texans want to reach.

Arky
12-30-2010, 10:05 PM
:headbang: **edit. That's not the smiley I was looking for. Bangs head is what I meant. We have way too many smileys. Lol.

Right. Didn't someone claim that McNair tried to extend Kubiak for 4 more years? Any truth to that?

Yes, McNair offered 4 and Kubiak only took 3 so he would align with the other coaches on staff.

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 10:15 PM
Yes, McNair offered 4 and Kubiak only took 3 so he would align with the other coaches on staff.

I don't remember hearing about that. I'll bite. Any chance you can point me to something that reported that? I'd also like to see what the media was thinking of the extension at that time. The extension itself caught a few of us by surprise.

Arky
12-30-2010, 10:29 PM
I don't remember hearing about that. I'll bite. Any chance you can point me to something that reported that? I'd also like to see what the media was thinking of the extension at that time. The extension itself caught a few of us by surprise.

There's this (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4902936):

Both Dennison and Knapp are also signed through the 2012 season.

"We have strengthened our coaching staff," McNair said. "I'm pleased we were able to finalize our contractual negotiations with Gary and with our coaches, so everybody will be on the same timeline. That makes everyone feel very good about the situation."



And this (http://www.battleredblog.com/2010/2/2/1289648/gary-kubiak-officially-signs):

Although head coaching contracts are generally not worth the paper they're written on, Bob McNair moved from "close" to "done" in terms of officially extending Gary Kubiak's deal as head coach of your Houston Texans today. Interestingly, word is that Kubes actually left a year (and therefore money) on the table, opting for solidarity with his staff by making 2012, not 2013, the end of his new deal.

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 10:55 PM
There's this (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4902936):



And this (http://www.battleredblog.com/2010/2/2/1289648/gary-kubiak-officially-signs):
Somebody get him for me? I'm out of rep.

Thank you for the links. Interesting. McNair sounds firmly committed to Kubiak.

b0ng
12-30-2010, 11:24 PM
The only real terrible downside I see to this is "Interim HC Wade Phillips". A whole lot of bad could come from that situation. I'm hoping it doesn't happen but I don't have a lot of faith in Kubiak as a HC period at this point.

Koolaid Time
12-30-2010, 11:33 PM
In my opinion the Texans will settle for more of a "Sid Gillman" to save the Texans sinking ship for the time being....

......since its pretty clear that McNair isn't willing to perform the "radical surgery" (i.e. clean house in both Coaching as well as GM) that is really necessary to turn this franchise around.

Yesterday
12-30-2010, 11:36 PM
Bum saying you can't get a better coach than Kubiak after watching one practice is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard. "Oh, you got them practicing well in week 17 before a game - Kubiak must be a wizard!" Give me a break. I realize the guy is an icon but I couldn't care less about who he thinks should or shouldn't be our coach.

Hookem Horns
12-30-2010, 11:40 PM
Well after this weekend is over, the last weekend. We shall see what will happen as Kubiak has the potential. Just needs to find chemistry and rhythem. Give him time!

LOL, nice try Ravens fan. Unfortunately for us it looks like you will get your way.

GuerillaBlack
12-31-2010, 04:01 AM
LOL, nice try Ravens fan. Unfortunately for us it looks like you will get your way.

How sad is it (for the Texnas) that a Ravens fan comes to this board with a sarcastic comment like that? The Texans really are the joke of the league. They all want Kubiak to stay. Kubiak is all stats with no results (wins).

TheMatrix31
12-31-2010, 04:52 AM
The only real terrible downside I see to this is "Interim HC Wade Phillips". A whole lot of bad could come from that situation. I'm hoping it doesn't happen but I don't have a lot of faith in Kubiak as a HC period at this point.


100% agreed. Ugh to that scenario.

HTown2ATX
12-31-2010, 07:00 AM
How sad is it (for the Texnas) that a Ravens fan comes to this board with a sarcastic comment like that? The Texans really are the joke of the league. They all want Kubiak to stay. Kubiak is all stats with no results (wins).

The sad thing is that this is something siomilar I bet to what other owners were saying to old Boobs McNair in the owners meetings but he took it as a compliment! :kubepalm::wadepalm::roast:

infantrycak
12-31-2010, 10:15 AM
Bum saying you can't get a better coach than Kubiak after watching one practice is the most idiotic statement I have ever heard.

No idiotic would be concluding because someone made comments at a practice that it was the only Texans football they have watched.

steelbtexan
12-31-2010, 10:20 AM
Well if he was watching Texans football this yr.

Then he knows the Texans could do much better than Gary Kubiak as HC.

This was all about getting Wade the DC gig. I cant believe that McNair would stoop to the level of getting Bum to schill for this perpetually terrible product

Mr. White
12-31-2010, 10:36 AM
"If (the Texans) need a coach, I’m sure he’d be tickled to death, and I’m sure they would be, too. Wade’s a Houston boy.”
It goes without saying how Bum would feel about Wade’s joining forces with Kubiak and the Texans.
“That would tickle me to death,” he said.

Did anyone ever doubt that Wade is ticklish?

Bum's a different story. I think we all learned something from this quote.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-31-2010, 11:09 AM
No idiotic would be concluding because someone made comments at a practice that it was the only Texans football they have watched.



No matter how many practices he watched, it was still an idiotic statement. The fact that it most likely isn't the first time he has seen the Texans operate under Gary Kubiak makes it even dumber.

infantrycak
12-31-2010, 07:21 PM
No matter how many practices he watched, it was still an idiotic statement. The fact that it most likely isn't the first time he has seen the Texans operate under Gary Kubiak makes it even dumber.

Geez people learn to read. He was at a practice. Now throw practice out of your mind. He may have watched every Texans game, been in the locker room after games, yada, yada - disagree with him fine. Just say I think Bum Phillips is wrong. It's idiotic to limit his knowledge to one or any number of practices just because he happened to be at a practice when he made his comments.

JB
12-31-2010, 07:32 PM
Geez people learn to read. He was at a practice. Now throw practice out of your mind. He may have watched every Texans game, been in the locker room after games, yada, yada - disagree with him fine. Just say I think Bum Phillips is wrong. It's idiotic to limit his knowledge to one or any number of practices just because he happened to be at a practice when he made his comments.

Bob Allen had a special on Bum a couple of months ago. IIRC, he said he watched all the Texans games.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-31-2010, 07:41 PM
Geez people learn to read. He was at a practice. Now throw practice out of your mind. He may have watched every Texans game, been in the locker room after games, yada, yada - disagree with him fine. Just say I think Bum Phillips is wrong. It's idiotic to limit his knowledge to one or any number of practices just because he happened to be at a practice when he made his comments.


It has nothing to do with him being at a practice. The comment itself was so far off base. You mean to tell me anyone that has watched every Texans game under the Kubiak regime is going to honestly believe Kubiak is every bit as good a coach there is in the NFL? Sorry, that's just flat out dumb and I don't care who's mouth it came out of. Of course Bum has no bias in all of this with his son about to be named the defensive coordinator and all.

Wolf
12-31-2010, 08:15 PM
Ain't no party like a gulf coast party,because a gulf coast party never stops :brando:

http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/David+Carr+Gary+Kubiak+Houston+Texans+v+Indianapol is+dPuMZ3y5vg6l.jpg


Nothing brings a fanbase closer than Kubiak and Carr

:kingkong:

J_R
01-03-2011, 03:19 PM
Didnt know where to post this or even at all, but anyhow, Dan and Spencer Tillman were on Sean Pendergast's show within the last hour. Will link to podcast if/when it's posted.


DP: I known Kubiak since a kid. Kid got great character. That's the biggest thing going for him. McNair likes that in him. Anyone who wants a HC wants character like that. Game yesterday - nothing to play for but played for the coach. Great way to start off 2011.

Surprised as big story it was?

I was. When you hang around Bum you make the headlines though.

When you have a poor D, there is a symbiotic effect. What does it have on the O?

ST: You're right. Relationship on both sides. Coverage affects pass rush and vice versa. To a degree, can you find answers to match O, is where the answer lies long term. Right track on O. You do have some character issues/problems on this team.

Defy character questions/problems

ST: Guys that are willing to challenge you. Ronnie Lott came up to me one day and said you haven't told anyone yet. I was like what? Ronnie said, you play like a starter, we need you as a starter. Texans dont have players who challenge each other and guys who are ok with it.

Dan, who were guys like that?

DP: We had nucleus of leaders. Brazille, Bingham, Barber, many others. It was a mutual policing/respect. Prime example of what Spencer said is he got his chance and produced. Same of Foster this year. And then Matt Schaub. He was a backup. Impressive when he first got here he called all his teammates. Thats a leader. They arent that far away.

ST: Dan hitting it right. Foster has motive. He was up against it. But that pressure by coaches, helped him move and progress as a professional. Context matters. Everyone has a story in the NFL. Gotta know what buttons to push to make someone uncomfortable. If the Texans had 7 leaders, they would be a playoff team.

Sticking with Foster, how do 32 teams miss on Foster? I know got some baggage but..

ST: This is a passing league. Backs are less important in primary role. Still important though. Fulmer had nothing bad to say about Foster but nothing good. No one can argue he proved himself this year.

DP: Its not over for him. He gotta sustain it.

ST: Good point.

Talking about Schaub, his leadership from the start of his time here, Kubiak didnt see much on him on film because of Vick. When scouting to find franchise QB, what are you looking for?

DP: I'd wanna meet the guy face to face. Get his thoughts. See what kind of person he is. Exactly what Gary did. He saw qualities there. Much more to throwing the football. He had the attributes Gary wanted. He kept them in ball games. Also some unfortunate turnovers but if not for him, they might not be anywhere.

ST: When you look for leaders, gotta understand what leadership is.
Talked about, in some sense, you see why Bob is keeping Kubiak. Not wanting to go backwards and bringing in a new regime. On O, which is bread and butter, getting long in the tooth. Andre, Matt not young guys anymore. Do you see window closing for these guys, and especially on O?

DP: No, not at all. Andre reminds me of Charlie Joiner. Andre played with injuries but nothing that will hinder him. He can play til 40 if he wants to. Matt seems the same. Pretty healthy guys. When I was 32-33, I was long in the tooth. Now, you're in your prime at that age.

ST: You're right. They looked good this year. Rules protect the QB. Offense is what puts people in the seats, and obvious along with wins. We are a passing league right now. I remember being in arbitration meeting, and our GM Reese turns to the judge and said we are in the NFL and in the business of getting people hurt. 32 games now for Matt being healthy. If they can protect him, they'll have a shot to be successful.

DP: Matt took his share of hits this year. As long as they can keep the good players healthy, they'll be fine. There is just some little things and tweaks. When you score that many points a game, you should win majority of your games. They had Ravens, Chiefs, Jets beat. All playoff teams. You add those wins and season is looking different. Nothing against Bush but I'm a big Wade Phillips guy. Everywhere he goes, he gets a top 5 defense. He can do both 34 and 43 defense. Teams in playoffs are mostly 34.

You mentioned ST earlier. How concerned about ST?

ST: Disappointed. When I see Steve Slaton now, I'm upset. You get rare opportunity to make difference and you dont. I saw 1 runback where he looked like Steve of old with speed and burst. Gotta make something happen. Joe Marciano a great coach but ultimately, they gotta raise level of performance.

DP: We watched guys back in my days to watch ST. Had special guys. They call it special teams for a reason.

Going back to Wade Phillips, in terms of his D, we seen stats. Explain inter-personal standpoint. Knock on him is a players coach. Does it matter as D-coordinator his social style or less relevant?

DP: Motivation is special quality that very few people have. Back to Dallas, their talent was highly overrated rather than underrated coaching. He wasnt running the O. His D was holding their own but left on the field a lot. Gotta move the ball. Everywhere he goes, players love him. I like Wade in the D coordinator position. That is what he is made for. His father was quick with wit. He knew how to handle the press. Wade is a sensitive and caring guy with a lot of character. May not have his fathers character but not many do.

ST: Dan said a boatload. Switzer told me, Spencer I love you. I thought, I never heard a coach say they loved me. Different coaches have a different way of motivating/leading people.

You played for Walsh, How did he do it?

ST: He was a thinker. Could not raise your hand. He wouldnt let you criticize anything in the meeting. If you raised your hand, you better have had a better solution. He identified guys and created context. He made you think before you were going to speak.

Do fans understand how much preparing goes into an NFL game? Even a nothing game like yesterday.

DP: I dont think an average fan has any clue. I dont think they know how much Spencer does before a broadcast. You break down so much stuff. You watch footage around the clock. Its a tremendous amount of work. I heard a comment yesterday, Bradford said I havent bought anything yet because I've been so busy. Look at his results

ST: Nothing more demanding than being a NFL QB. He is object of everyone on D. Imagine sitting in a cubicle and 11 people giving you the business.

DP: Playing in front of people that hate your guts, you ask yourself why am I doing this when you get brow beaten. When I was at the game, when they introduced Gary, boos came out. I've had that feeling and its not a good feeling. He's a strong man and can handle it. He'll be better for it.
 

michaelm
01-03-2011, 03:36 PM
I understand Cowboy hatred having perpetuated much of it myself over the years.

But honestly, I'm finding it distasteful these days for Texans fans to make fun of any team that has more than one winning season.

Much less a team 5 Super Bowl championships and 9 Super Bowl appearances. :rake:

It's like Paris Hilton calling someone a slut.


Meh, my Cowpie hatred actually has nothing to do with my Texans fandom...

Hookem Horns
01-05-2011, 05:06 AM
Earlier this week referring to McNair and Kubiak ...

After watching practice, the 87-year-old Phillips said the team seemed to still be focused and working hard. “You’re not going to get any better coach than him,” Phillips said. “If you can get your team to practice like these kids practiced, the last week of the season, with nothing to look forward to, then believe me, he’s got control of the team. He’s always been a good coach. You’re not going to get any better than Gary Kubiak.”

Yesterday referring to Bud Adams and Fisher ...


Former Oilers Coach O.A. "Bum" Phillips also said Adams should side with Fisher, who ranks third among active coaches in victories but hasn't won a playoff game since 2003.

"After 16 years of coaching, to think Jeff Fisher all of a sudden can't handle people? The player has to get along with the coach. The coach doesn't have to get along with the players. He just has to coach them and do what he thinks is right,'' said the 87-year-old Phillips, who coached under Adams from 1975-80 and was fired by him after three consecutive playoff trips.

"A quarterback needs to be able to lead the team. Not only to play good, but to get other people to play good. And obviously after five years Jeff doesn't believe (Young) can do that. I would go with the coach. … There's no way Bud will find a better coach than Jeff Fisher.''


http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110105/SPORTS01/101050335/2196/SPORTS

The man's on a crusade to save some coaches.

TheMatrix31
01-05-2011, 05:13 AM
Meh, my Cowpie hatred actually has nothing to do with my Texans fandom...

Agreed. Aside from Tennessee, the teams I've hated in this league, I hated well before I was a Texans fan. Patriots, Raiders, Jets...etc