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Jackie Chiles
12-01-2010, 04:44 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5869776

"But owners aren't going to lock in high-price, high-profile coaches if they have labor uncertainty. If talks between owners and players break down over the next month, you might see the Cowboys stay with Jason Garrett and the Vikings stay with Leslie Frazier. Texans owner Bob McNair could stay with Gary Kubiak by hiring Wade Phillips to coordinate the team's defense. If other owners don't make changes or choose to hire low-priced assistants as head coaches, expect a long labor battle."

Not really great timing coming off a shutout, I know, but seeing a name in print leads me to believe there might be some actual rumblings coming from the Texans that Clayton might have gotten wind of.

Wonder if Phillips would be willing to stick with our 4-3 or if he would implement a 3-4. I think at this point either would suit me.

Double Barrel
12-01-2010, 04:49 PM
I just told a buddy last night of my prediction: McNair will keep Kubiak for 2011 and hire Wade as DC.

Wade's Houston roots, Bum as dad, knew Gary as a ball boy for the Oilers, and is a solid DC. The table is set and I just can't see McNair not having dinner at it right now.

Dwade
12-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Great, then we can have another coach who failed to get the best out of his talented team (Cowboys)

:wadepalm:

:kubepalm:

utahmark
12-01-2010, 04:56 PM
I don't know that we need another "good ole boy" coach on this team. We need a DC with some attitude.

houstonspartan
12-01-2010, 04:56 PM
I just told a buddy last night of my prediction: McNair will keep Kubiak for 2011 and hire Wade as DC.

Wade's Houston roots, Bum as dad, knew Gary as a ball boy for the Oilers, and is a solid DC. The table is set and I just can't see McNair not having dinner at it right now.

Honestly, I don't care about all that "local boy" shit. Look at where that's gotten us with Kubiak.

Also, I wonder if Kubiak is going to pull a Shanahan. The owner of the Denver Bronco's was tired of have a really great offense but a terrible defense, resulting in constant meltdowns (sound familiar?) and he simply asked Shanahan to switch defensive coordinators. Shanny said no and was fired.

Now, Kubaik isn't as ballsy as Shanahan, but he's certainly as stubborn. Kubiak is going down the exact same path Shanahan did in Denver (after their Super Bowl wins, of course): 8-8, 8-8, 8-8....

Shanahan didn't know jack about defenses, and didn't listen, and that's what got him fired.

As for Wade Phillips, sure, why not. I'd be happier with almost anything than we have now. The problem is, that that move would - yet again - let Kubiak off the hook.

Rey
12-01-2010, 04:58 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5869776

"But owners aren't going to lock in high-price, high-profile coaches if they have labor uncertainty. If talks between owners and players break down over the next month, you might see the Cowboys stay with Jason Garrett and the Vikings stay with Leslie Frazier. Texans owner Bob McNair could stay with Gary Kubiak by hiring Wade Phillips to coordinate the team's defense. If other owners don't make changes or choose to hire low-priced assistants as head coaches, expect a long labor battle."

Not really great timing coming off a shutout, I know, but seeing a name in print leads me to believe there might be some actual rumblings coming from the Texans that Clayton might have gotten wind of.

Wonder if Phillips would be willing to stick with our 4-3 or if he would implement a 3-4. I think at this point either would suit me.

I would like that, and I would not mind going to a 3-4 at all...I think we have a few pieces to do this and I don't think the transition would be as tough as it seems.

I think Mario and smith could both play 3-4 DE and I think Cushing could play OLB in a 3-4. I think Demeco/Sharpton/Diles/Bentley could play the inside and I think Barwin would be a really good fit as the other OLB opposite Cushing. I think Mitchell could be a relief guy at one of the DE spots...

I actually think Mario could be a good NT, but I don't know if he'd be willing to play that role. Maybe on an occasional basis.

Ratliff isn't a big fat guy and he plays the nose pretty effectively so I am not convinced that a DT has to be as big as Wilfork to get the job done. Maybe we could trade or draft a good NT though. 3

Ole Miss Texan
12-01-2010, 05:00 PM
Why would Wade Phillips be a good hire? How would he make this defense better?

I'm not dissing the guy and this isn't a pro-Bush post. I genuinely want to know because right now I think all of us may want change because we're tired of what we have.

If your answer is "he can't be any worse than Bush" then I don't care to read your post. That's funny... it is probably halfway true... that's been played out a thousand times. Phillips is a popular name and would seem great. Could be a great DC but a poor HC. Sure. But why would YOU hire HIM?

Rey
12-01-2010, 05:04 PM
Why would Wade Phillips be a good hire? How would he make this defense better?

I'm not dissing the guy and this isn't a pro-Bush post. I genuinely want to know because right now I think all of us may want change because we're tired of what we have.

If your answer is "he can't be any worse than Bush" then I don't care to read your post. That's funny... it is probably halfway true... that's been played out a thousand times. Phillips is a popular name and would seem great. Could be a great DC but a poor HC. Sure. But why would YOU hire HIM?

He's been extremely successful as a DC before.

His Cowboys' defenses haven't really been terrible either.

Jackie Chiles
12-01-2010, 05:16 PM
Why would Wade Phillips be a good hire? How would he make this defense better?

I'm not dissing the guy and this isn't a pro-Bush post. I genuinely want to know because right now I think all of us may want change because we're tired of what we have.

If your answer is "he can't be any worse than Bush" then I don't care to read your post. That's funny... it is probably halfway true... that's been played out a thousand times. Phillips is a popular name and would seem great. Could be a great DC but a poor HC. Sure. But why would YOU hire HIM?

Did a little research, here are his defenses the last 6 years according to points per game:

DC
San Diego 2004: 18.9
San Diego 2005: 19.5
San Diego 2006: 19.5

HC
Dallas 2007: 20.3
Dallas 2008: 22.8
Dallas 2009: 15.6

And sacks per game:

2004:29
2005:46
2006:61
2007:46
2008:59
2009:42

Dutchrudder
12-01-2010, 05:17 PM
Did a little research, here are his defenses the last 6 years according to points per game:

DC
San Diego 2004: 18.9
San Diego 2005: 19.5
San Diego 2006: 19.5

HC
Dallas 2007: 20.3
Dallas 2008: 22.8
Dallas 2009: 15.6

And sacks per game:

2004:29
2005:46
2006:61
2007:46
2008:59
2009:42


WHOA! That's gotta be a record!!

Double Barrel
12-01-2010, 05:20 PM
Honestly, I don't care about all that "local boy" shit. Look at where that's gotten us with Kubiak.

Also, I wonder if Kubiak is going to pull a Shanahan. The owner of the Denver Bronco's was tired of have a really great offense but a terrible defense, resulting in constant meltdowns (sound familiar?) and he simply asked Shanahan to switch defensive coordinators. Shanny said no and was fired.

Now, Kubaik isn't as ballsy as Shanahan, but he's certainly as stubborn. Kubiak is going down the exact same path Shanahan did in Denver (after their Super Bowl wins, of course): 8-8, 8-8, 8-8....

Shanahan didn't know jack about defenses, and didn't listen, and that's what got him fired.

As for Wade Phillips, sure, why not. I'd be happier with almost anything than we have now. The problem is, that that move would - yet again - let Kubiak off the hook.

I agree. It's a don't shoot the messenger thing, because another year of Kubiak is not something that gives me anything to look forward to.

I can just see McNair working this angle. He's patient like a cat, is loyal to a fault, loves him some Kubiak, marketing the "local boy" shtick - especially with Bum's son - will be too good to pass up, and I think he really believes that Kubiak is the man.

Bush is the sacrificial scapegoat to save Kubiak's butt, and it just makes sense that Wade is the logical step from a marketing standpoint.

And he probably is an improvement over Frank Bush at the end of the day, fwiw.

CretorFrigg
12-01-2010, 05:25 PM
I wouldn't mind Wade Phillips as our DC. Heck, I want Wade as our DC! Although not regarded as a top-notch head coach, he's proven to be a very competant DC.

He's similar to Gary Kubiak in a way. Kubiak is a great OC, and most teams will hire him as their OC in a heartbeat. Kubiak the head coach? Not so much...

Ole Miss Texan
12-01-2010, 05:37 PM
Wow I'm surprised by the serious and informative posts guys!! Lol

thanks for the history on him and his D's.

I could really see this as a way McNair could go. Just heard some talk on Phillips about what a respected guy he is.

texan279
12-01-2010, 05:42 PM
Was listening to 610 a few minutes ago and they were discussing this. Wouldn't mind at all if we could keep the 4-3.

Kaiser Toro
12-01-2010, 05:53 PM
I agree. It's a don't shoot the messenger thing, because another year of Kubiak is not something that gives me anything to look forward to.

I can just see McNair working this angle. He's patient like a cat, is loyal to a fault, loves him some Kubiak, marketing the "local boy" shtick - especially with Bum's son - will be too good to pass up, and I think he really believes that Kubiak is the man.

Bush is the sacrificial scapegoat to save Kubiak's butt, and it just makes sense that Wade is the logical step from a marketing standpoint.

And he probably is an improvement over Frank Bush at the end of the day, fwiw.

Thank you for articulating my thoughts. I would rep you, but the Machine is keeping me down.

Jackie Chiles
12-01-2010, 06:41 PM
Fwiw I did just hear Jason LaCanfora on NFL Network mention that there are a lot of quality head coaches that would like to work for Bob McNair including Bill Cowher.

fiasco west
12-01-2010, 06:52 PM
Fwiw I did just hear Jason LaCanfora on NFL Network mention that there are a lot of quality head coaches that would like to work for Bob McNair including Bill Cowher.

I guess that is the good thing about being super patient and extra loyal. Cowher knows he'll have plenty of time to mold the team exactly how he wants it to.

Any ways onto the topic I like the idea, IMO that is the only way i'll be happy if we keep Kubiak (unless Texans actually sneak in then I don't care) but the Texans should look to getting a experienced accomplished DC and that is Wade Phillips. This rumor sounds more like a guess because of Wade's roots than a "I have sources..." type of thing though.

ArlingtonTexan
12-01-2010, 06:55 PM
:mariopalm::kubepalm::wadepalm:

texan279
12-01-2010, 08:00 PM
:mariopalm::kubepalm::wadepalm:

Could he really be any worse than what we have now? Last time he was a DC with San Diego from 04-06 his defense was ranked in the top half of the league all three seasons.

TexanSam
12-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Wouldn't mind this move at all. He's been a pretty successful coordinator in his career. 10X better than Frank Bush.

m5kwatts
12-01-2010, 08:14 PM
Is Wade available starting Thursday night vs. the Eagles?

Htownsportsfan
12-01-2010, 08:25 PM
Wade always had good defenses when he was a coordinator. Look at the GB defense under Dom Capers. I am sure the folks in Green Bay are happy they didnt let his failure in Houston keep them from hiring him.

GP
12-01-2010, 08:51 PM
Just having some fun with this, so bear with me...

What if Cowher was our d-coord, due to him "wanting to ease back into coaching" instead of taking the Nestea plunge as a HC after being gone for a few years?

Man, wouldn't THAT be an interesting situation. Talk about Gary's proverbial seat getting warmer!

That's going to be the happy place I go to. Imagining The Chin as our d-coord and the resulting awkwardness.

El Tejano
12-02-2010, 07:50 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=5869776

"Not really great timing coming off a shutout, I know, but seeing a name in print leads me to believe there might be some actual rumblings coming from the Texans that Clayton might have gotten wind of.



It makes perfect timing. I don't want Frank Bush going into games thinking he's arrived or something.

DBCooper
12-02-2010, 07:57 AM
Wade Phillips is a top 5 defensive coordinator in the NFL.

I would love to see him here.

Hire Cowher, move Gary to Offense, now we're talking!

b0ng
12-02-2010, 08:00 AM
Wade Phillips as a DC you say?

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/b0ngerz/1239772758989.jpg

kiwitexansfan
12-02-2010, 08:13 AM
I would approve of such a move. Someone not tied to Kubiak who in a WORST case scenario can slide over to HC on an interim basis.

DBCooper
12-02-2010, 09:32 AM
Wade Phillips as a DC you say?

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq263/b0ngerz/1239772758989.jpg

If you were referring to my post, I guess I could have been a little more clear.

Cowher - HC
Phillips - DC
Kubiak - OC

Doppelganger
12-02-2010, 09:34 AM
If you were referring to my post, I guess I could have been a little more clear.

Cowher - HC
Phillips - DC
Kubiak - OC

I like this idea, though I am not sure Kubes would be willing to take a backup role. Plus Cowher and Kubes wouldn't mesh offensively. Cowher likes old school pound the ball with big hogs type of offense and Kubes is a ZBS oriented.

DBCooper
12-02-2010, 09:37 AM
I like this idea, though I am not sure Kubes would be willing to take a backup role. Plus Cowher and Kubes wouldn't mesh offensively. Cowher likes old school pound the ball with big hogs type of offense and Kubes is a ZBS oriented.

That's true.

And if Cowher could bring LeBeau from Pittsburgh, I'd take that instead.

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2010, 09:56 AM
Kubiak as OC
Phillips as DC
Cowher as HC

I could dig that. I'd say just let Kubes run the Offense, Wade run the Defense, and let Cowher run around yelling at everyone to get their effin act together and start winning games.

DBCooper
12-02-2010, 10:52 AM
Kubiak as OC
Phillips as DC
Cowher as HC

I could dig that. I'd say just let Kubes run the Offense, Wade run the Defense, and let Cowher run around yelling at everyone to get their effin act together and start winning games.

I wanna see some spit!!!

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2010, 10:56 AM
I wanna see some spit!!!
You watch it, son.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f3fTVkavMVg/Sh6vBvb1XZI/AAAAAAAAB6I/vrZp-K7GHUM/s400/cowher2.jpg

Señor Stan
12-02-2010, 11:06 AM
Well Phillips *did* coach in Denver for a while, so he has that going for him...

Sincerely,

Gary Kubiak

DX-TEX
12-02-2010, 12:12 PM
Well Phillips *did* coach in Denver for a while, so he has that going for him...

Sincerely,

Gary Kubiak

Repped. LMAO!:doot:

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2010, 12:14 PM
I'm just too convinced Kubiak isn't going anywhere this offseason. I still think if McNair decides to do something it's going to be on the Defensive side. If our defense starts to play lights out the rest of the season, Bush may stay. If not and we continue to struggle, we'll probably see a change. I also don't think McNair is going to change just because he's unhappy with how things are. I think he'll only do it if there's a candidate out there that he wants.

I think Wade Phillips certainly has a high probability of being that guy. Has anyone heard anything from Wade in regards to coaching next season? Is he tired, does he want time off? Or is he excited about what might come about?

I think Phillips is just really respected around the league, he's had success on the D in the past, and he really fits what this team is about. He's a clean cut, mild mannered, humble guy. He's from Orange, Texas, went to U of H and has coached at Houston and Denver. I keep reading his a brilliant defensive mind, can adjust during a game or when there's injuries and he's not tied to the 3-4 scheme.

I've been thinking Bush will be gone and our new DC will bring in a big FA acquisition. Maybe not a "Julius Peppers" kind of bigtime $ contract... but I think McNair/Kubiak/Smith will say "we've got to get help back there now.".

I can see Wade being that guy. Marcus Spears will be a FA. Could he be a possible DE pick up for us? Mario, Antonio, Spears, Anderson and Barwin?

Champ Bailey is also a FA. I know he's not the lockdown guy he used to be but I think he would be a huge asset to bring in here. I don't think he and Denver have had any talks about a new contract either.

Could Wade be the guy and bring in Spears and Bailey? I think we'd still need some safety help, lb and dt to go along with it. But I think that really could be the edge that gets us to the promised land.

DX-TEX
12-02-2010, 12:20 PM
I think Wade Phillips certainly has a high probability of being that guy. Has anyone heard anything from Wade in regards to coaching next season? Is he tired, does he want time off? Or is he excited about what might come about?

.

He wants to coach next year. Cant remeber where I read/heard it but I did see it this past week. Wouldnt totally shock me since Bum Philips has close ties to the McNairs and is a die hard Texans fan.

OzzO
12-02-2010, 12:29 PM
Just having some fun with this, so bear with me...

What if Cowher was our d-coord, due to him "wanting to ease back into coaching" instead of taking the Nestea plunge as a HC after being gone for a few years?

Man, wouldn't THAT be an interesting situation. Talk about Gary's proverbial seat getting warmer!

That's going to be the happy place I go to. Imagining The Chin as our d-coord and the resulting awkwardness.

Wow! That IS a happy place. Then we wouldn't have to have a "learning curve" for next season, wouldn't take time to (re)build and we'd have our HC in waiting (ala Opie with the Cowboys). It's a WIN-WIN for all!

However - if I was to put money down based off past expectations and results, I betcha it's Wade that comes in. If so - agree with an above poster - can we go ahead and biring him in starting tonight.... or do we need to wait and see if the "Bush on the field" experiment pays crazy magical dividends?

Texanmike02
12-02-2010, 12:36 PM
He was a bad HC. I dont' want him as our DC!

Signed,
The Green Bay Packers Fan Base

IDEXAN
12-02-2010, 12:43 PM
I like the idea basically because it would be a way to return the 3-4 to the Texans. Frankly I don't care if Mickey Mouse is the Texans DC, as long as he runs the 3-4.

TimeKiller
12-02-2010, 12:48 PM
Besides where you line up and nuances of where you position yourself....are 3/4 and 4/3 really all that different? It's still 7 guys. The goal of defense is still the same.

Is it really a quantam shift?

Wade for DC. His defenses have always been pretty good, regardless of his head coaching track record.

Ole Miss Texan
12-02-2010, 12:54 PM
Besides where you line up and nuances of where you position yourself....are 3/4 and 4/3 really all that different? It's still 7 guys. The goal of defense is still the same.

Is it really a quantam shift?

Wade for DC. His defenses have always been pretty good, regardless of his head coaching track record.

Yes. Different kind of DE's, DT and LBs. That's not to say some of our current players won't be able to play in a 3-4 on a regular basis though.

Think of it like Cushing as an OLB vs a MLB.

Doppelganger
12-02-2010, 02:05 PM
Yes. Different kind of DE's, DT and LBs. That's not to say some of our current players won't be able to play in a 3-4 on a regular basis though.

Think of it like Cushing as an OLB vs a MLB.

Cush as a second MLB next to Meco looks nice. How about as a 3-4 elephant with Cush as the Elephant?

hradhak
12-02-2010, 04:36 PM
I would love to get Wade in as the DC. If Kubiak stays for another year, we need a new DC and Phillips would be a great choice. I would rather we stay in the 4-3 if we can. We need a solid 3-4 NT and they are hard to come by. All our current NT's are too short. And I think our offseason should focus on bringing in a new FS, not trying to find a NT.

texan279
12-02-2010, 06:38 PM
Yes. Different kind of DE's, DT and LBs. That's not to say some of our current players won't be able to play in a 3-4 on a regular basis though.

Think of it like Cushing as an OLB vs a MLB.

Exactly.

burro
12-02-2010, 06:50 PM
Sure there is no worse option than Frank Bush, but is there a better option than Phillips for the Texans? If he can work the 4-3, I wouldn't say so.

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 04:11 PM
John Clayton on ESPN NEWS just presented that Kubiak and Philips will be teaming up here in Houston.

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2010, 04:13 PM
I think it would be a good partnership and given their two expertise and their success on their respective sides of the ball I would be pretty hopeful about the next season.

ThaShark316
12-28-2010, 04:13 PM
lmaooooo

TheMatrix31
12-28-2010, 04:14 PM
....wow!

DX-TEX
12-28-2010, 04:15 PM
http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/darth_vader_nooo_7675.jpeg

Norg
12-28-2010, 04:15 PM
Coming in to do what be a DC ???????????????? :kitten:

devo-x
12-28-2010, 04:15 PM
Good news if Kubiak stays as OC

Dishman
12-28-2010, 04:15 PM
Tell me were talking OC and DC. Where does the head coaching and leadership come from?

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 04:16 PM
Cush as a second MLB next to Meco looks nice. How about as a 3-4 elephant with Cush as the Elephant?

Very true.... I was referring to Cush's play as a MLB in our 4-3 during Meco's absence vs. his (occasional) beastmode at OLB.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-28-2010, 04:16 PM
Are we changing to 3-4?

Norg
12-28-2010, 04:17 PM
Wade da coach

and Kubes the OC


Hmmm that will be strange

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 04:17 PM
And people are slamming fans for wanting to have a rally to change the coach???

Oooookaaaaaayyy.

BetaV1
12-28-2010, 04:18 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2005/06/30/gallery.scrambling/scrambling_flutie.jpg

False Start
12-28-2010, 04:18 PM
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1677/damn.gif

hradhak
12-28-2010, 04:18 PM
I would be very surprised if Kubiak gets demoted to OC. I like bringing in Wade Phillips, I think it's a good move for DC. I wouldn't want him as coach.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 04:18 PM
Wade is cupcake just like Kubiak. We aren't going anywhere with the duo. We have a chance at Cowher and McNair is not taking it.

DX-TEX
12-28-2010, 04:20 PM
Please tell me this is a sick joke.

PLEASE!?!?!?!?

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 04:20 PM
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1677/damn.gif

LMAO!

One of my favorate scenes from my all time favorate show!

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 04:21 PM
Should it come to pass, I have been expecting it and love the idea of Phillips as DC.

Nawzer
12-28-2010, 04:21 PM
Terrible news. McNair is lame.

TheMatrix31
12-28-2010, 04:23 PM
He's a really good defensive coordinator.

DX-TEX
12-28-2010, 04:25 PM
He's a really good defensive coordinator.


And Kubiaks a really good OC, but they are both:

http://www.bigoven.com/uploads/Marshmallow.jpg

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 04:26 PM
this is great..

im still on the kubiak wagon so couldnt be happier about this. wade is a great, proven DC

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 04:26 PM
John Clayton on ESPN NEWS just presented that Kubiak and Philips will be teaming up here in Houston.

Presented that this would be a possibility or was reporting that this is actually happening?

I'm not seeing anything on ESPN or HoustonTexans.com about this. I could see a "leak" happening that Phillips would step in if Bush gets fired but at this point I fully expect us to finish the season (5 days from now) with everybody in place. Bush to be fired after the season and Phillips to be hired in his place as DC (if this is the route McNair goes).

In any event, I would be one of the fans you guys despise because I would be on board with this. Phillips is a proven DC and even if he built this defense into a top 20 in the league.... we'd have 10+ wins a season.

Malloy
12-28-2010, 04:26 PM
wow, ideas sure are flopping around these days. I'm excited because it SEEMS as if changes are coming, some sort of change :)

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 04:26 PM
He's a really good defensive coordinator.

Yeah, we certainly saw that in Dallas this year, didn't we? That Green Bay game was something else. Wade's exhaulted defense really stepping in for him during that one.

Ryan
12-28-2010, 04:26 PM
Until this is confirmed, i won't believe it. But if it is, at least we already have this facepalm ready....:kubepalm::wadepalm:

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 04:26 PM
What are they going to do? Fight for who goes to time management school first.:)

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 04:27 PM
this is great..

im still on the kubiak wagon so couldnt be happier about this. wade is a great, proven DC

Don't get too smug.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 04:30 PM
Don't get too smug.

smug? what the **** is your problem? im just happy about this news jackass

Wolf
12-28-2010, 04:30 PM
I imagine the reaction of some people

http://i38.tinypic.com/3451n4y.jpg

J_R
12-28-2010, 04:30 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0edH1QZ2cGfXp/350x.jpg

:kubepalm::wadepalm:

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 04:30 PM
Should this come to pass I wonder what impact it would have on him remaining as a coach in the East-West Shrine game

NitroGSXR
12-28-2010, 04:31 PM
Nothing's confirmed. Need a link. Spare me the twitter ones though... I don't twit.

djohn2oo8
12-28-2010, 04:31 PM
I would imagine that Clayton threw it out there as a possibility, because nobody is confirming it

Ckw
12-28-2010, 04:31 PM
I hope to God this isn't true. If it is, I really am not sure how much longer I can continue rooting for this franchise as long as Bob McNair's heart is still beating. If it is as OC & DC, fantastic, but we all know that isn't happening. The last thing I want to see is this combination:

:kubepalm::wadepalm:

HTown2ATX
12-28-2010, 04:32 PM
If this is true I have not been this depressed since Mother's Day 2008.......the day my wife stood in our kitchen and told me she wanted a divorce.


Really hope this is not true.

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 04:32 PM
smug? what the **** is your problem? im just happy about this news jackass

I didn't call you a jackass or any other names. I'm saying none of this has been confirmed yet. Just like the supposed rumors of Kubiak's departure are not confirmed.

wagonhed
12-28-2010, 04:32 PM
Please tell me this is a sick joke.

PLEASE!?!?!?!?

this

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Presented that this would be a possibility or was reporting that this is actually happening?

I'm not seeing anything on ESPN or HoustonTexans.com about this. I could see a "leak" happening that Phillips would step in if Bush gets fired but at this point I fully expect us to finish the season (5 days from now) with everybody in place. Bush to be fired after the season and Phillips to be hired in his place as DC.

In any event, I would be one of the fans you guys despise because I would be on board with this. Phillips is a proven DC and even if he built this defense into a top 20 in the league.... we'd have 10+ wins a season.

Presenting that talks ongoing with Phillips to get him down here.

IDEXAN
12-28-2010, 04:33 PM
Lot of people will want Phillips as their DC, so why would he go someplace where the HC is on a very, very short lease ? Like if Kubiak is back, its playoffs in 2011 or he's gone along with his staff of course since a new HC would want to pick his coordinators.

Nawzer
12-28-2010, 04:34 PM
I wonder if Wade will adopt the "it's on me" mantra from Kubiak.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 04:35 PM
I didn't call you a jackass or any other names. I'm saying none of this has been confirmed yet. Just like the supposed rumors of Kubiak's departure are not confirmed.

im guessing thats because, unlike you, i wasnt acting like a jackass to anybody.

i was just posting my initial reaction to the news. wasnt acting smug in any way at all. just because its a different viewpoint to yours :rolleyes:

NitroGSXR
12-28-2010, 04:36 PM
I hope to God this isn't true. If it is, I really am not sure how much longer I can continue rooting for this franchise as long as Bob McNair's heart is still beating. If it is as OC & DC, fantastic, but we all know that isn't happening. The last thing I want to see is this combination:

:kubepalm::wadepalm:

Yeah tht's not happening. HCs usually brings in their own staff. I can't imagine somebody filling in the lower ranks.

TheMatrix31
12-28-2010, 04:36 PM
If this is true I have not been this depressed since Mother's Day 2008.......the day my wife stood in our kitchen and told me she wanted a divorce.


Really hope this is not true.

Someone insulted me the other day for saying rooting against this team makes it reflect poorly on people as a human being, and how it's just a game and all that. Where's the flack for someone comparing a real-life, devastating situation to a potential coaching hire?



.....anyway, its a good move depending on what else happens. Kubiak has major flaws, flaws that have not been shored up in his time here. Mainly game-management, clock-management stuff. Phillips is an excellent D coordinator, as shown especially during the 90s. Kubiak is an excellent offensive mind, questionable decisions aside. I don't know if he'd accept a demotion to OC so I really don't know what's going to happen.

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 04:36 PM
Lot of people will want Phillips as their DC, so why would he go someplace where the HC is on a very, very short lease ? Like if Kubiak is back, its playoffs in 2011 or he's gone along with his staff of course since a new HC would want to pick his coordinators.
Well if this happens... for those of you who REALLY don't like Kubiak it could be a blessing in disguise. Phillips present McNair with "an out". By that I mean if we struggle during the 2011 season and start off extremely terrible, McNair has a fall back plan in Phillips to replace Kubiak mid-season as HC. Some wanted Kubiak fired midseason this year... but Dennison or Bush were no where near capable of stepping in as interim HC. Phillips (whether anyone would like that or not) at least presents that option if Kubiak starts 0-6 or soforth.

From Wade's perspective, he probably won't get a HC gig but will get some feelers for DC. He's got definite ties to Houston and a team that has a very very good offense but is just lacking in the "D" department. He also would likely be the 1st name on the list as a HC replacement should something happen (given the defense doesn't get worse!).

Phace786
12-28-2010, 04:39 PM
smug? what the **** is your problem? im just happy about this news jackass

You're happy about Pubes returning? I'm stealing this sig from a poster on clutchfans -- HOU: 54-89 GK: 36-43 ovr; 9-20 div. rec.; 8-22 vs win. teams; 2-3 sea. opnrs; 1-4 after bye wk; 5-7 after 13 wks('07-'10)

You might be happy but 99.9 % of Texans fans feel like this right now..

http://i52.tinypic.com/25rcxf4.jpg

TheMatrix31
12-28-2010, 04:39 PM
Well if this happens... for those of you who REALLY don't like Kubiak it could be a blessing in disguise. Phillips present McNair with "an out". By that I mean if we struggle during the 2011 season and start off extremely terrible, McNair has a fall back plan in Phillips to replace Kubiak mid-season as HC. Some wanted Kubiak fired midseason this year... but Dennison or Bush were no where near capable of stepping in as interim HC. Phillips (whether anyone would like that or not) at least presents that option if Kubiak starts 0-6 or soforth.


Ewwwwww

ThaShark316
12-28-2010, 04:40 PM
lmao @ this shit even happening...come on folks...be real.

This was a possibility thrown out by John Clayton.

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 04:40 PM
John Clayton on ESPN NEWS just presented that Kubiak and Philips will be teaming up here in Houston.

What do you mean by "presented"?

J_R
12-28-2010, 04:41 PM
Lot of people will want Phillips as their DC, so why would he go someplace where the HC is on a very, very short lease ? Like if Kubiak is back, its playoffs in 2011 or he's gone along with his staff of course since a new HC would want to pick his coordinators.

Yeah yeah yeah. We thought that last year - only for him to be extended. It was "playoffs or bust" this year and well...we're still waiting to see what happens.

Wolf
12-28-2010, 04:41 PM
If this turns out to be true. I wonder how Kubiak would be where he doesn't have to worry about the defense. there is someone there that can handle his own

a few times this season, I couldn't help but think of the Texans in 2003 or 2004 where Chris Palmer's offense basically had to play safe, no turnovers and play for field position and let the defense win the game for them because Carr and that offense was so bad.

In an opposite view,
a few times this season, I wondered if the Texans had to gear down their offense because they needed to eat up the clock because our defense was so bad (and yes I know this is weird and stupid thinking) but a few times I didn't want our offense to come out and jump to a big lead because that basically meant the opposing team had to abandon the run and throw the ball which played right into the historically bad pass defense.

crazy and stupid thoughts I know

Ghostform
12-28-2010, 04:42 PM
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1589/jesusfacepalmp.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/jesusfacepalmp.jpg/)

Ryan
12-28-2010, 04:42 PM
I just watched this report by Clayton....and he said it's maybe a possibility. Nothing is even close to confirmed yet people. Let's just wait and see how next week plays out.

Hervoyel
12-28-2010, 04:43 PM
I can't continue to support a team that would keep Gary Kubiak as HC after what he's done for the past 5 years. I know it doesn't mean anything to anyone other than myself but I will literally cease to follow this team (and by extension the NFL) if something along these lines comes to pass.

TheMatrix31
12-28-2010, 04:43 PM
In an opposite view,
a few times this season, I wondered if the Texans had to gear down their offense because they needed to eat up the clock because our defense was so bad (and yes I know this is weird and stupid thinking) but a few times I didn't want our offense to come out and jump to a big lead because that basically meant the opposing team had to abandon the run and throw the ball which played right into the historically bad pass defense.

crazy and stupid thoughts I know

Very astute observations, actually.

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 04:44 PM
Ewwwwww

HAHAHAHA. :wadepalm:
If this turns out to be true. I wonder how Kubiak would be where he doesn't have to worry about the defense. there is someone there that can handle his own

a few times this season, I couldn't help but think of the Texans in 2003 or 2004 where Chris Palmer's offense basically had to play safe, no turnovers and play for field position and let the defense win the game for them because Carr and that offense was so bad.

In an opposite view,
a few times this season, I wondered if the Texans had to gear down their offense because they needed to eat up the clock because our defense was so bad (and yes I know this is weird and stupid thinking) but a few times I didn't want our offense to come out and jump to a big lead because that basically meant the opposing team had to abandon the run and throw the ball which played right into the historically bad pass defense.

crazy and stupid thoughts I know
Not crazy or stupid at all. I actually had the same feelings the entire season. Err on second thought, that's not a ringing endorsement for your views. my bad! lol

In all serious, I had the same feelings. I felt like Kubiak had to be ultra conservative and was playing the "field position" game a lot of the season. If we weren't able to move the ball with ease... don't force it, chew up some clock and punt it away. Don't leave our defense with a short field to cover. I think the way our defense was had an enormous impact on our offensive strategy and those play calls.

NitroGSXR
12-28-2010, 04:44 PM
It's all speculation... Clayton just stated live on ESPN just now.... as typed per my closed captioning...

What I am hearing today is that try may reach out to Wade Phillips and still keep Gary Kubiak. If not, it could be Bill Cowher.

I'm thinking now that the Favre lovefest is now over... they're trying to create news.

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 04:47 PM
What do you mean by "presented"?

On Coaches on Hot Seat.

ThaShark316
12-28-2010, 04:47 PM
lmao @ this shit even happening...come on folks...be real.

This was a possibility thrown out by John Clayton.

Like I said...lol

disaacks3
12-28-2010, 04:48 PM
http://vote08.freedomblogging.com/files/2008/06/augh.thumbnail.jpg

wagonhed
12-28-2010, 04:48 PM
Title of this thread should be changed because it's misleading. Just saying. ESPN isn't "reporting" any such thing.

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 04:49 PM
On Coaches on Hot Seat.

"Presented" as in "this is happening" or "presented" as in "I dunno s**t im just making stuff uP"

Malloy
12-28-2010, 04:51 PM
What are they going to do? Fight for who goes to time management school first.:)

Next year we're shipping them both :)

HTown2ATX
12-28-2010, 04:51 PM
Someone insulted me the other day for saying rooting against this team makes it reflect poorly on people as a human being, and how it's just a game and all that. Where's the flack for someone comparing a real-life, devastating situation to a potential coaching hire?

.....anyway, its a good move depending on what else happens. Kubiak has major flaws, flaws that have not been shored up in his time here. Mainly game-management, clock-management stuff. Phillips is an excellent D coordinator, as shown especially during the 90s. Kubiak is an excellent offensive mind, questionable decisions aside. I don't know if he'd accept a demotion to OC so I really don't know what's going to happen.

A)- Why are you calling me out?

B)- I think you are comparing apples and oranges.

I'm talking about that sinking helpless feeling and it's my personal story from my personal life. I'm not commenting on anyone elses or making some generic statement. Merely illustrating that it would hurt me deeply on some level IF this were true as I am very passionate about the Texans and anyone who knows me knows that.

What I said and your comments about how OTHERS actions are by rooting against the Texans seem to be 2 different things. I was talking about myself and not others.

Just not understanding how my comment had anything to do with yours other than using it to try to point out how you felt you were criticized incorrectly.

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 04:51 PM
"Presented" as in "this is happening" or "presented" as in "I dunno s**t im just making stuff uP"

Turns out it's "presented" in the sense that it's one of the possibilities that's out there. aka 'I dunno s**t im just making stuff up". lol

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 04:52 PM
"Presented" as in "this is happening" or "presented" as in "I dunno s**t im just making stuff uP"

Don't know if this is a McClain type of presentation or not.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 04:53 PM
Someone insulted me the other day for saying rooting against this team makes it reflect poorly on people as a human being, and how it's just a game and all that. Where's the flack for someone comparing a real-life, devastating situation to a potential coaching hire?

Wow, if you can't see the difference... :kubepalm:

Good God.

I just watched this report by Clayton....and he said it's maybe a possibility. Nothing is even close to confirmed yet people. Let's just wait and see how next week plays out.

Yep. I breathed a sigh of relief.

texanchris
12-28-2010, 04:54 PM
:wadepalm: First we hear a rumor that Kubiak will be fired but Texans will keep Rick Smith and now someone else thinks Kubiak stays and Wade comes. Nothings for certain, we have to just wail until Black Monday to find out.

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 04:56 PM
It's all speculation... Clayton just stated live on ESPN just now.... as typed per my closed captioning...



I'm thinking now that the Favre lovefest is now over... they're trying to create news.

Was this on the Coaches on the Hot Seat from where I was reporting it , or a separate segment by Clayton?

ChampionTexan
12-28-2010, 04:57 PM
John Clayton on ESPN NEWS just presented that Kubiak and Philips will be teaming up here in Houston.

I didn't hear the report, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the word "will" was not uttered in Clayton's report. At least not in the context used by the OP.

DexmanC
12-28-2010, 04:58 PM
I hope to God this isn't true. If it is, I really am not sure how much longer I can continue rooting for this franchise as long as Bob McNair's heart is still beating. If it is as OC & DC, fantastic, but we all know that isn't happening. The last thing I want to see is this combination:

:kubepalm::wadepalm:

Don't forget their new quart-a-back! :facepalm:

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 04:59 PM
If this turns out to be true. I wonder how Kubiak would be where he doesn't have to worry about the defense. there is someone there that can handle his own

a few times this season, I couldn't help but think of the Texans in 2003 or 2004 where Chris Palmer's offense basically had to play safe, no turnovers and play for field position and let the defense win the game for them because Carr and that offense was so bad.

In an opposite view,
a few times this season, I wondered if the Texans had to gear down their offense because they needed to eat up the clock because our defense was so bad (and yes I know this is weird and stupid thinking) but a few times I didn't want our offense to come out and jump to a big lead because that basically meant the opposing team had to abandon the run and throw the ball which played right into the historically bad pass defense.

crazy and stupid thoughts I know

You know what, I got those same feelings during the season. But then, I realized that Kubiak still sucks as a HC currently. 5-7 after 12 games for four years in a row, the Indy MNF game this year (not running Foster when he was shredding them), going with an inexperienced secondary, not knowing how to manage the clock/timeouts, and probably the biggest thing, not having this team prepared at the start of games. This has been a one half football team under Kubiak's entire tenure.

Nawzer
12-28-2010, 05:01 PM
The problem isn't with Wade Phillips as a good defensive coordinator, but him working for Gary Kubiak the head coach of the Houston Texans in 2011. Very few people want to hear and see "Gary Kubiak, head coach of the Texans in 2011".

NitroGSXR
12-28-2010, 05:02 PM
Was this on the Coaches on the Hot Seat from where I was reporting it , or a separate segment by Clayton?

The "staying or going" part of the segment. It is 100% speculation. Somebody said " gotta wait till black Monday" around here... I'm rolling with that.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 05:02 PM
just wondering has wade always ran a 3-4 as a DC? any 4-3?

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 05:05 PM
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51dO6QW7b1L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

It can't get here fast enough

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 05:06 PM
The "staying or going" part of the segment. It is 100% speculation. Somebody said " gotta wait till black Monday" around here... I'm rolling with that.

Sounds like a different segment with different sound bite. But glad it was "murky" in wording.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 05:08 PM
just wondering has wade always ran a 3-4 as a DC? any 4-3?

If Wade comes in, I'm pretty sure we'll change to a 3-4. Shouldn't be too hard. The 4-3 is obviously not working.

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 05:10 PM
If Wade comes in, I'm pretty sure we'll change to a 3-4. Shouldn't be too hard. The 4-3 is obviously not working.

He's run both successfully and can certainly be counted on to run a "Hybrid" using some players we already have.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 05:11 PM
If Wade comes in, I'm pretty sure we'll change to a 3-4. Shouldn't be too hard. The 4-3 is obviously not working.

our current version of the 4-3 isnt working. ron rivera went into SD this yr and created a good 3-4 D despite only ever working in a 4-3 previously so im not too worried about it should it actually come to it

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 05:13 PM
My concern is that if we end up with another KUBIAK REGIME, how does the "Culture of Losing" miraculously fly out the window?:kubepalm:

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 05:14 PM
My concern is that if we end up with another KUBIAK REGIME, how does the "Culture of Losing" miraculously fly out the window?:kubepalm:

Especially with Wade as the DC. As if we are all ignorant to want went on in North Texas this year. I think it was more the players taking advantage of the coach. But then again, the Dallas sports media didn't call Wade Phillips' training camps "Camp Cupcake" for nothing.

disaacks3
12-28-2010, 05:17 PM
The only way I can live with this is.....if Cowher wanted him in place beforehand to evaluate personnel. Heck, for all we know, that could be what McNair's looking for...another Dan Reeves to tell us what we do/don't have, possibly as an evaluation towards moving to a 3-4.

MFG16
12-28-2010, 05:18 PM
I like Wade as a DC, but if Kubiak stays itll be another bad season next year. The way Kubiak has been talking and sounding lately seems like he doesnt even want to be here. The way he talks about the team is like from an outsiders position, and It sounds like he knows he's done here. Besides he has a job in Denver waiting for him. anybody else hear how amazed he was with tebow? (SR610) If we keep him its a mistake.

Double Barrel
12-28-2010, 05:19 PM
I've been talking about this scenario ever since Wade got fired. Is Clayton bored and reading Texans Talk??

I really hope this doesn't come to pass, for it will just confirm what many have been suspicious of McNair for awhile.

TEXANS84
12-28-2010, 05:21 PM
I just put in a job application with one of Bob McNair's companies.

Hey, can't hurt...have sub-par performance and get paid a lot of money? I'm in.

TheMatrix31
12-28-2010, 05:21 PM
Wow, if you can't see the difference... :kubepalm:

Good God.



Yep. I breathed a sigh of relief.

Oh, I can see the difference just fine. But in the end, it's still comparing something that is very serious to something that, in the end, is not very serious at all.

SheTexan
12-28-2010, 05:32 PM
Some of you people will NEVER be happy with whatever changes are made! The game of FOOTBALL is a crapshoot, and NOONE knows who's gonna make it big, or who's gonna fail. You guys talk about women BIT*HING all the time! We don't hold a candle to some of you!

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-28-2010, 05:38 PM
What a sick joke this would be.

gary
12-28-2010, 05:40 PM
this entire MB has gone insane over something they do not have the final say over.

JB
12-28-2010, 05:43 PM
Some of you people will NEVER be happy with whatever changes are made! The game of FOOTBALL is a crapshoot, and NOONE knows who's gonna make it big, or who's gonna fail. You guys talk about women BIT*HING all the time! We don't hold a candle to some of you!

Well said! It is amazing the amount of hysteria over a rumor or two...

Hookem Horns
12-28-2010, 05:44 PM
If this is true I have my new signature for god help us all how long.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 05:44 PM
Some of you people will NEVER be happy with whatever changes are made! The game of FOOTBALL is a crapshoot, and NOONE knows who's gonna make it big, or who's gonna fail. You guys talk about women BIT*HING all the time! We don't hold a candle to some of you!

I think its more people being upset at the possibility of Kubiak remaining as HC of the Texans in 2011, than being upset at the possibility of Wade Phillips as the DC of the Texans in 2011.

gary
12-28-2010, 05:46 PM
Is anyone just tierd of all these threads? I sure am.

Double Barrel
12-28-2010, 05:48 PM
Some of you people will NEVER be happy with whatever changes are made! The game of FOOTBALL is a crapshoot, and NOONE knows who's gonna make it big, or who's gonna fail. You guys talk about women BIT*HING all the time! We don't hold a candle to some of you!

Now let's not get emotional, SheTex. This is a momentary lapse of reason for the men, as opposed to the lifelong commitment by women. :winky:

scourge
12-28-2010, 05:55 PM
Good news if Kubiak stays as OC

That's not possible. Unless specific in their contract, a HC cannot be demoted. We would have to fire him like Jerrah did with Campo. Fire Kubes, have have him go to another team for season or 2, and then bring him back as OC.

HTown2ATX
12-28-2010, 05:58 PM
I think its more people being upset at the possibility of Kubiak remaining as HC of the Texans in 2011, than being upset at the possibility of Wade Phillips as the DC of the Texans in 2011.

^^^This

Playoffs
12-28-2010, 06:19 PM
Wade Phillips coming Kubiak staying
Two captivating personalities ... pre-game motivationals will be ZZZZzzzzzzz.

Mr. White
12-28-2010, 06:24 PM
Thanks to the mod that changed the title of this thread.

They say where there's smoke, there's a fire. The smoke in this thread is regular ol' skunk.

The smoke in the other thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78861) is worthy of a centerfold in High Times.

Wolf
12-28-2010, 06:28 PM
Wade Phillips and Mike Shanahan overlapped in Denver for two years in 1993-1994 when Wade Phillips was the Head Coach and Shanahan the Offensive Coordinator. Of course, current Redskins DB Coach, Bob Slowik, was a Defensive Coordinator with Shanahan in Denver for 1 year in 2008 and that was a disaster (2008 Broncos defense ranked 28th in Yards Allowed and 30th in Points Allowed 28.


http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/11/18/1821721/wade-phillips-the-next-redskins-defensive-coordinator-theres-a-history

that keeps your Denver connection alive

69% of Redskin fans voted yes that they would want Phillips as a DC (757 votes)

texansdrummer
12-28-2010, 06:40 PM
Two captivating personalities ... pre-game motivationals will be ZZZZzzzzzzz.

Such "Personality" is highly over-rated. Last season, Frank Bush came in as a "motivated/spoken out/rah rah guy." It wouldn't take much to find posts on this forum to substantiate that many people here thought that was a good move at the time. The problem with such "guys", is that they are sometimes overcompensating for a lack of talent and/or intelligence. The "rah rahs" and screaming/yelling wear out quickly....and I suspect that's exactly why our defense has been terrible. I'm sure it didn't take long for the defensive players to figure out that they were going to be here longer than FB. I haven't seen nearly as many comments by the players this season that suggest that they are being properly placed in position to succeed/make plays.....certainly not as many as last season.

There are numerous examples of coaches who have had success regardless of what side of the personality spectrum they were on.

In order to be successful, the players don't need to be "fired up" as much as they need to be reminded that they could BE fired.

Our guys knew a long time ago that wasn't going to happen here....and they played like it.

TEXANRED
12-28-2010, 06:47 PM
http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/11/18/1821721/wade-phillips-the-next-redskins-defensive-coordinator-theres-a-history

that keeps your Denver connection alive

69% of Redskin fans voted yes that they would want Phillips as a DC (757 votes)

A Wade Phillips defense and a Gary Kubiak offense = CHAMPIONSHIP.

That's why it won't happen.

You know, I liked football a whole lot better before the internet was around.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 06:48 PM
A Wade Phillips defense and a Gary Kubiak offense = CHAMPIONSHIP.

That's why it won't happen.

You know, I liked football a whole lot better before the internet was around.

Pick up the Chron and some Blue Bell ice cream for your off season Texans time. :)

Big Lou
12-28-2010, 06:53 PM
A Wade Phillips defense and a Gary Kubiak offense = CHAMPIONSHIP.

That's why it won't happen.

You know, I liked football a whole lot better before the internet was around.


I'm having visions of the "Co-Manager" episodes on The Office..........

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 06:57 PM
Tell me were talking OC and DC. Where does the head coaching and leadership come from?

We'll get Singletary to "motivate" the guys.

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 07:07 PM
Lot of people will want Phillips as their DC, so why would he go someplace where the HC is on a very, very short lease ? Like if Kubiak is back, its playoffs in 2011 or he's gone along with his staff of course since a new HC would want to pick his coordinators.

The only thing I can think, is that this fits McNair's sense of "family"

If he buys Kubiak's excuses this time, leaves him as HC, bring Phillips (sun of Bum who says Kubiak is doing a fine job), he'll have someplace to go if he decides to cut Kubiak at a later date.

This would be similar to hiring Frank Bush & keeping Richard Smith.

Hookem Horns
12-28-2010, 07:07 PM
A Wade Phillips defense and a Gary Kubiak offense = CHAMPIONSHIP.



I think it would be possible if there were a real HC in that equation also. He would have to have a real strong personality to overide those 2 marshmallow personalities. However if we bring in a legit HC they are going to want to appoint their own guys.

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 07:23 PM
It's all speculation... Clayton just stated live on ESPN just now.... as typed per my closed captioning...



I'm thinking now that the Favre lovefest is now over... they're trying to create news.

We're getting Favre??

http://www.team5speed.com/cjobe/Gifs/carlton.gif

Wolf
12-28-2010, 07:27 PM
we will probably hear about 30 rumors or more within the next couple of weeks, esp with up to 10 teams looking for head coaches

so far, 49ers,Broncos,vikings,Cowboys all have with interim right now

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 07:30 PM
That's not possible. Unless specific in their contract, a HC cannot be demoted. We would have to fire him like Jerrah did with Campo. Fire Kubes, have have him go to another team for season or 2, and then bring him back as OC.

If a HC contract is dissolved by firing or by mutual agreement, both parties would be "free agents," free to re-negotiate another contract with different terms.

drs23
12-28-2010, 07:44 PM
If a HC contract is dissolved by firing or by mutual agreement, both parties would be "free agents," free to re-negotiate another contract with different terms.

So all this talk about Unk Bob being on the hook for the remaining 2 years of GK's contract are unfounded? McNair wouldn't have to "eat" the last 2 years of GK's contract? I've wondered about that because they can sign players to contracts for X amount of dollars and years but if they get cut then, see ya, no more cash. Is it or is it not different with management?

Texan_Bill
12-28-2010, 07:51 PM
LMAO if people think Kubiak would stay on as OC... :kubepalm: The only way Kubiak is in Houston next year is if
a) He's still the HC or b) completely unemployed.

And yes, I would love for Wade to be the DC. We have more pieces in place (save our secondary of course and a big space eating nose tackle) to run the 3-4.

I wouldn't mind Kubiak remaining as HC, Wade as DC. That said, the final piece(s) of the puzzle is to lose Rick Smith and spend some money on a real GM.... You know the kind... The kind of GM where the HC works for the GM, not the other way around like this current broken model.

JB
12-28-2010, 07:52 PM
So all this talk about Unk Bob being on the hook for the remaining 2 years of GK's contract are unfounded? McNair wouldn't have to "eat" the last 2 years of GK's contract? I've wondered about that because they can sign players to contracts for X amount of dollars and years but if they get cut then, see ya, no more cash. Is it or is it not different with management?

A coaches contract is normally guaranteed money unless exceptions are made in the contract. If there are no buy out clauses, if Kubiak is fired, McNair would be on the hook for the remainder of the contract. But, if both parties agreed to dissolve the contract, then I think they could do so and then write a new one. Could be also that it is written in his contract that he could be reassigned, though I doubt it.

michaelm
12-28-2010, 07:55 PM
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a thread that contains the phrase "come to pass" in four or more posts.

drs23
12-28-2010, 07:58 PM
A coaches contract is normally guaranteed money unless exceptions are made in the contract. If there are no buy out clauses, if Kubiak is fired, McNair would be on the hook for the remainder of the contract. But, if both parties agreed to dissolve the contract, then I think they could do so and then write a new one. Could be also that it is written in his contract that he could be reassigned, though I doubt it.

So there is a difference in player's contracts and those of management. Thanks for the enlightment. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Standing by...

Texan_Bill
12-28-2010, 08:03 PM
So all this talk about Unk Bob being on the hook for the remaining 2 years of GK's contract are unfounded? McNair wouldn't have to "eat" the last 2 years of GK's contract? I've wondered about that because they can sign players to contracts for X amount of dollars and years but if they get cut then, see ya, no more cash. Is it or is it not different with management?

Bob needs to make up his mind and fast (after the season). If Denver covets Kubiak as much as is rumored, the Texans could actually work a draft pick for releasing Kubiak and letting him go to Denver. See John Gruden being "traded" from the Raiders to the Bucs for a 5th round pick, IIRC.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 08:06 PM
Bob needs to make up his mind and fast (after the season). If Denver covets Kubiak as much as is rumored, the Texans could actually work a draft pick for releasing Kubiak and letting him go to Denver. See John Gruden being "traded" from the Raiders to the Bucs for a 5th round pick, IIRC.

actually it was something retarded like 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders and some other lower picks aswell iirc

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 08:09 PM
Gruden:
1st round/21st overall, 2002
2nd round/53rd overall, 2002
1st round/32nd overall, 2003
2nd round/33rd overall, 2004

Herm Edwards:
4th round, 2006

Texan_Bill
12-28-2010, 08:10 PM
actually it was something retarded like 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders and some other lower picks aswell iirc

Gruden:

1st round/21st overall, 2002
2nd round/53rd overall, 2002
1st round/32nd overall, 2003
2nd round/33rd overall, 2004

Edwards:
4th Round pick

Holy snikeys, that's what the Bucs gave up to get Gruden??? I don't remember all that!

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 08:13 PM
Holy snikeys, that's what the Bucs gave up to get Gruden??? I don't remember that! I

It was outrageous, but I would be happy with a 4th round pick should Kubiak move on to Denver.

Wolf
12-28-2010, 08:13 PM
Bob needs to make up his mind and fast (after the season). If Denver covets Kubiak as much as is rumored, the Texans could actually work a draft pick for releasing Kubiak and letting him go to Denver. See John Gruden being "traded" from the Raiders to the Bucs for a 5th round pick, IIRC.

how about trading Kubiak for something the next coach could use?
http://steynian.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/brass-balls2.jpg

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 08:17 PM
Kubiak and Wade...Dumb and Dumber.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-28-2010, 08:19 PM
Kubiak and Wade...Dumb and Dumber.



Rick Smith = Dumberer

Texan_Bill
12-28-2010, 08:24 PM
It was outrageous, but I would be happy with a 4th round pick should Kubiak move on to Denver.

how about trading Kubiak for something the next coach could use?
http://steynian.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/brass-balls2.jpg

I'd be happy with that too!

Rick Smith = Dumberer

:lol:

infantrycak
12-28-2010, 08:37 PM
I'm trying to get this straight. Gruden a coach with a .509 in his last 7 year long gig is the salvation of the team at HC and Phillips with a .609 in his last gig isn't competent to be DC even. Offensive guy managed to get his team to have a top half of the league offense twice in seven seasons. Defensive guy managed top 10 D in 3 of 4 seasons.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 08:40 PM
I'm trying to get this straight. Gruden a coach with a .509 in his last 7 year long gig is the salvation of the team at HC and Phillips with a .609 in his last gig isn't competent to be DC even. Offensive guy managed to get his team to have a top half of the league offense twice in seven seasons. Defensive guy managed top 10 D in 3 of 4 seasons.

exactly. perception is reality around here these days. ppl dont want schotty either apparently. dont want to get knocked out of the playoffs early. thats a step down apparently

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 09:19 PM
Just a thought but why on earth would Gruden still want to go to TB knowing they just gave up a 1st and 2nd rounder for each of his first Two seasons? That hamstrings you so much. Guess that's why he took Dungys team to the playoffs that year and then it all went downhill. Not totally Grudens fault but he literally made the bed he slept in. Or whatever that saying is

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 09:22 PM
I'm trying to get this straight. Gruden a coach with a .509 in his last 7 year long gig is the salvation of the team at HC and Phillips with a .609 in his last gig isn't competent to be DC even. Offensive guy managed to get his team to have a top half of the league offense twice in seven seasons. Defensive guy managed top 10 D in 3 of 4 seasons.

It seems real simple to say offense + defense = good. But Phillips doesn't help Kubiak become better at forcing a team to play 60 minutes or using his best RB in key sitations or learning timeouts 101. Kubiak has failed overall. You know the offense wasn't exactly burning it up in games where they fell behind by 14-21.

Also, Phillips had alot more talent than the Texans on D this year and they regressed. So for whatever that is worth.

Kubiak has had his hands in everything that has been done for 5 years. EVERYTHING. I have a hard time believing a D Coordinator makes him a better coach and decision maker.

TEXANRED
12-28-2010, 10:01 PM
Rick Smith = Dumberer

What a horrible movie that was.

infantrycak
12-28-2010, 10:04 PM
It seems real simple to say offense + defense = good. ...

Just an observation. Didn't mean to derail the it is all Kubiak's fault train.

But while we're talking, how about at least be good at your specialty as a standard for coaches? Gruden inherited a D in Tampa that had been top 10 for 5 years with 4 of 5 top 6 or better before he got there and then he never built a top 10 offensive team and barely made top half. Kubiak got here and quickly built a top 5 O team three years running. In Oakland Gruden's D's got worse each year. I have no faith Gruden is going to come in here and fix the D (oh the irony if his first hire was Wade Phillips) for all the other problems you can point to that is the elephant in the room.

*this is not a pro-Kubiak post so much as I hate the idea of Gruden.

TEXANRED
12-28-2010, 10:08 PM
Just an observation. Didn't mean to derail the it is all Kubiak's fault train.

But while we're talking, how about at least be good at your specialty as a standard for coaches? Gruden inherited a D in Tampa that had been top 10 for 5 years with 4 of 5 top 6 or better before he got there and then he never built a top 10 offensive team and barely made top half. Kubiak got here and quickly built a top 5 O team three years running. In Oakland Gruden's D's got worse each year. I have no faith Gruden is going to come in here and fix the D (oh the irony if his first hire was Wade Phillips) for all the other problems you can point to that is the elephant in the room.

*this is not a pro-Kubiak post so much as I hate the idea of Gruden.

I agree with you here. Not a Gruden fan at all. I can't be the only one who remembers him having 5 different QB's on the roster.

Yes Gruden won a SB but that team was built by Dungey.

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 10:25 PM
Just an observation. Didn't mean to derail the it is all Kubiak's fault train.

But while we're talking, how about at least be good at your specialty as a standard for coaches? Gruden inherited a D in Tampa that had been top 10 for 5 years with 4 of 5 top 6 or better before he got there and then he never built a top 10 offensive team and barely made top half. Kubiak got here and quickly built a top 5 O team three years running. In Oakland Gruden's D's got worse each year. I have no faith Gruden is going to come in here and fix the D (oh the irony if his first hire was Wade Phillips) for all the other problems you can point to that is the elephant in the room.

*this is not a pro-Kubiak post so much as I hate the idea of Gruden.

I'm with you on the Gruden thing. I think he is better than Gary and he can change the attitude but it isn't like he is a first choice for me. My statement wasn't trying to paint your statement into that specific corner on Kubes but I've seen that same sentiment 3-4 times today where someone says that Kubes is an offensive guru that just needs defensive help. I think it goes WAY depper than that and there is just a bad team philosophy right now.

If anyone heard Alonzo Highsmith Call kinto 1560 this afternoon, he NAILED it concerning what a team needs in a coach. It was a great call and pretty much an indictment on the Texans philiosopjy right now.

Brisco_County
12-28-2010, 10:26 PM
I don't know why anyone could get excited over Gruden. He only has celebrity value, which would make him an awesome college recruiter, and nothing more.

infantrycak
12-28-2010, 10:39 PM
I think he is better than Gary and he can change the attitude but it isn't like he is a first choice for me.

But is the change of attitude a good one? He had tons of controversy, never could pick a QB to save himself and built teams that wildly swung up and down. Not sure that is better attitude. I know lots of fans like to see growling Chuckie faces on the sideline. Doesn't impress me.

If anyone heard Alonzo Highsmith Call kinto 1560 this afternoon, he NAILED it concerning what a team needs in a coach. It was a great call and pretty much an indictment on the Texans philiosopjy right now.

Missed it. What did he say?

DexmanC
12-28-2010, 10:43 PM
Can Bob spare enough change to get Wade AND a real head coach?

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 10:49 PM
But is the change of attitude a good one? He had tons of controversy, never could pick a QB to save himself and built teams that wildly swung up and down. Not sure that is better attitude. I know lots of fans like to see growling Chuckie faces on the sideline. Doesn't impress me.



Missed it. What did he say?

He randomly called in to tell John and Justice what he think makes a great coach and thus a top team. He went through guys like Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, Parcells, etc. He said when they entered a room guys stopped what they were doing and waiting for them to talk. They had some fear in them. Their main goal was to be one of the 11 guys that got to play. When the trams had that attitude and the fear they knew the guy next to them was ready for battle and games. He said he learned the difference his last year in Tampa where they were 2-14 under Sam Wyche. He said guys just kept doing what they were doing when he walked in. They got used to the status quo. He said all of the top guys he played for or saw weren't exactly liked and that he gets suspicious when he hears players like a coach. There is no such thing as a players coach. It was very eye opening. He says the Packers coach now commands alot of respect and he doesn't get blustery or act tough, guys just know who the boss is.

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 11:03 PM
Just a thought but why on earth would Gruden still want to go to TB knowing they just gave up a 1st and 2nd rounder for each of his first Two seasons? That hamstrings you so much. Guess that's why he took Dungys team to the playoffs that year and then it all went downhill. Not totally Grudens fault but he literally made the bed he slept in. Or whatever that saying is

Jimmy Johnson & Jerry Jones had a great relationship until somebody offered Jimmy more money.

Maybe it was the same with Davis & Gruden. Maybe Chucky recognized the early onset of dementia.....

I'm just throwing things out there.

infantrycak
12-28-2010, 11:11 PM
Jimmy Johnson & Jerry Jones had a great relationship until somebody offered Jimmy more money.

And you know this how?

Runner
12-28-2010, 11:19 PM
Of the various rumors, this seems the most likely to me at this point.

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 11:45 PM
And you know this how?

Like everyone else. I'm just trying to put the bits and pieces together. I live in Pt Arthur Texas, and that's the word around here. Here's a link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm)

At the bottom of the first page there's a snippet about Jimmy coaching the Jaguars. The way I here the story, that's what started everything.

infantrycak
12-29-2010, 12:00 AM
Like everyone else. I'm just trying to put the bits and pieces together. I live in Pt Arthur Texas, and that's the word around here. Here's a link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005069/index.htm)

At the bottom of the first page there's a snippet about Jimmy coaching the Jaguars. The way I here the story, that's what started everything.

Wow, there is so much stuff in that article and you pull just $$ out of it. I lived that time as a Cowboys fan. It wasn't about money. It was about two gigantic egos.

ArlingtonTexan
12-29-2010, 12:28 AM
Wade is cupcake just like Kubiak. We aren't going anywhere with the duo. We have a chance at Cowher and McNair is not taking it.

Wade makes Kubiak looks like that drill sargent in the Geico commercial


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFgiUm4lQig

ArlingtonTexan
12-29-2010, 12:33 AM
Jimmy Johnson & Jerry Jones had a great relationship until somebody offered Jimmy more money.

Maybe it was the same with Davis & Gruden. Maybe Chucky recognized the early onset of dementia.....

I'm just throwing things out there.

The problem was not money (which in consistent with Jerry Jones). A couple months back Jimmy Johnson was interviewed on a sports radio station in the area and said that by his initial contract he had final say on roster and personnel matters. Once Jerry Jones got the business end of the Cowboys straight, he want to take this power away from Johnosn. When Johnson refused, that is when the football relationship ended.

Edit: If anything the link a few post above this one confirms not contradicts this notion.

GP
12-29-2010, 12:54 AM
But is the change of attitude a good one? He had tons of controversy, never could pick a QB to save himself and built teams that wildly swung up and down. Not sure that is better attitude. I know lots of fans like to see growling Chuckie faces on the sideline. Doesn't impress me.

I am not a Gruden fan either.

I didn't like how he played his 13 QBs against each other, in Tampa Bay, throwing one guy out there one week and another guy out there the next week. And having one QB whom, IIRC, was not even on the team but couldn't play elsewhere due to still being under a Bucs contract. I mean, what a colossal FAIL.

Throw in the little MNF thing where he made Derek Anderson out to be Hitler's son (because Derek had the audacity to SMILE during a bad game) and it is just so apparent that Gruden plays reindeer games too much.

IMO, Gruden is the defensive equivalent to Gary Kubiak. Both guys do their side of the ball VERY well, but the other side of the ball is woeful. When I look back on the Bucs championship season, I see an offense that looks like the Ravens offense under Trent Dilfer when the Ravens won their SB title. Both offenses just barely got by opponents solely upon having a QB who didn't make too many costly mistakes, allowing their defenses to shut down offenses and even make some opportunities for themselves, as well.

And you're right about the Jimmy-Jerry thang. That debacle was not about money. It was about Jerry wanting more credit than he deserved. He saw how much Jimmy was being lauded, and he wanted to steal some of that for himself. He was out to ensure that the Cowboys success was more about him than about whatever HC he put out there. It's so obvious to anyone who just observes the chain of events there. From that point forward, Jerry was hell-bent on showing that he could do what Jimmy did. He couldn't understand that his power and influence had limits. He overstepped those boundaries and it has cost him dearly. But oh well, when you buy that franchise (The Cowboys) you pretty much can screw up for 30 years and still retain your fan base because of the legacy and the history there.

Even Broncos fans have two SB titles to look back upon and brag about.

CloakNNNdagger
12-29-2010, 08:01 AM
Wow, there is so much stuff in that article and you pull just $$ out of it. I lived that time as a Cowboys fan. It wasn't about money. It was about two gigantic egos.

The problem was not money (which in consistent with Jerry Jones). A couple months back Jimmy Johnson was interviewed on a sports radio station in the area and said that by his initial contract he had final say on roster and personnel matters. Once Jerry Jones got the business end of the Cowboys straight, he want to take this power away from Johnosn. When Johnson refused, that is when the football relationship ended.

Edit: If anything the link a few post above this one confirms not contradicts this notion.

Control of how money is used, not who has the money, is a common source of conflict in many relationships.

IDEXAN
12-29-2010, 08:43 AM
Even Broncos fans have two SB titles to look back upon and brag about.
Thanks to John Elway more than anybody else. Sometimes a coach just gets lucky and ends up with a Hall of Fame QB on his team.
Ever wonder what the Texans would have been had Casserly been succesful
in trying to pursuade Michael Vick to stay in college his senior year ?

Señor Stan
12-29-2010, 08:45 AM
Thanks to Terrell Davis more than anybody else.

fixed it for you

SheTexan
12-29-2010, 08:50 AM
The only positive thing about Jon Gruden is that he's PURDY to look at!!:) PERIOD!! Don't want him!!

:includeme:

TheCD
12-29-2010, 09:00 AM
IMO, Gruden is the defensive equivalent to Gary Kubiak. Both guys do their side of the ball VERY well, but the other side of the ball is woeful.

Do you mean to say that they are both equivalent? Gruden is an offensive guy that loves elaborate playcalling. I asked my coach after he won the Super Bowl what he thought about him and he said he'd never want to play for him. His play-calls are about 15 syllables long.

Granted, my coach was fine with calling "65 Toss Power Trap".

scourge
12-29-2010, 09:14 AM
IMO, Gruden is the defensive equivalent to Gary Kubiak. Both guys do their side of the ball VERY well, but the other side of the ball is woeful. When I look back on the Bucs championship season, I see an offense that looks like the Ravens offense under Trent Dilfer when the Ravens won their SB title. Both offenses just barely got by opponents solely upon having a QB who didn't make too many costly mistakes, allowing their defenses to shut down offenses and even make some opportunities for themselves, as well.



Gruden all about offense, not defense. His defense was all about Dungy/Monte Kiffin. Gruden did just enough with that offense to get them to the SB.


heh, pretty much what TheCD just said. I just noticed his post.

Ole Miss Texan
12-29-2010, 09:22 AM
My guess is what's going on is that the Texans will "distance" themeselves from the Cowher talk. They'll float a lot of names of HC candidates and interviewees like Hue Jackson, Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, plus several more. That way the fanbase will really be scratching their heads and not wanting those so when its announced Phillips will replace Bush as DC and Kubiak will stay, the fanbase will be more accepting of it than if everyone was led to believe Cowher was a possibility. Damage control, slight of hand, manipulation, mind control... these guys are jedis working on Kirby.

Vinnie
12-29-2010, 09:25 AM
Wade makes Kubiak looks like that drill sargent in the Geico commercial


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFgiUm4lQig

That's R. Lee Ermey you jackwagon! :)

IDEXAN
12-29-2010, 10:03 AM
My guess is what's going on is that the Texans will "distance" themeselves from the Cowher talk. They'll float a lot of names of HC candidates and interviewees like Hue Jackson, Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, plus several more. That way the fanbase will really be scratching their heads and not wanting those so when its announced Phillips will replace Bush as DC and Kubiak will stay, the fanbase will be more accepting of it than if everyone was led to believe Cowher was a possibility. Damage control, slight of hand, manipulation, mind control... these guys are jedis working on Kirby.
As a fan I could accept the scenario of HC/OC Kubiak & DC Phillips, but
many couldn't for sure.
Atleast it would give us a lot to talk about during the long offseason. For example, would Phillips install the 3-4 and if they did, would they contemplate trading Mario to a 4-3 team where he was utilized to the max, as many do think he must be a 4-3 guy for max results ?

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 10:05 AM
My guess is what's going on is that the Texans will "distance" themeselves from the Cowher talk. They'll float a lot of names of HC candidates and interviewees like Hue Jackson, Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, plus several more. That way the fanbase will really be scratching their heads and not wanting those so when its announced Phillips will replace Bush as DC and Kubiak will stay, the fanbase will be more accepting of it than if everyone was led to believe Cowher was a possibility. Damage control, slight of hand, manipulation, mind control... these guys are jedis working on Kirby.

I couldn't agree more.

GP
12-29-2010, 10:30 AM
Gruden all about offense, not defense. His defense was all about Dungy/Monte Kiffin. Gruden did just enough with that offense to get them to the SB.


heh, pretty much what TheCD just said. I just noticed his post.

WHat? Get out of town.

Gruden was a defense guy in Oakland and a defense guy in Tampa. With both places having a VERY mediocre offense with VERY mediocre QBs who just barely got it done on game day.

You guys are off your rocker.

And even if you are right, look at those offenses he "led" at Oakland and Tampa. That's what you want here? LOL. No freaking way. Not this guy.

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 10:35 AM
I agree with you here. Not a Gruden fan at all. I can't be the only one who remembers him having 5 different QB's on the roster.

Yes Gruden won a SB but that team was built by Dungey.

Well, Dungy couldn't get the team he built to the Super Bowl, so Gruden should get some credit. Plus the team that Gruden built made it to the big game, as well.

But I'm not a fan of Gruden. He's a fun television personality, but his obsession with QBs is detrimental to his ability to operate as a consistently successful head coach.

With regards to Wade coming here, my biggest fear is that 2011 will be given the benefit of the doubt due to a "rebuilding season" for switching to a 3-4 defense. They have a built in excuse for another mediocre year if the results do not end in a playoff trip. I see two more years of Kubiak - minimum - if they keep him and bring in Wade.

Next Monday will really bring Bob McNair into a better focus regarding what kind of owner he is in the end, because a quest for quality does not include retaining an average coach with a 36-43 record after five seasons.

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 10:36 AM
WHat? Get out of town.

Gruden was a defense guy in Oakland and a defense guy in Tampa. With both places having a VERY mediocre offense with VERY mediocre QBs who just barely got it done on game day.

You guys are off your rocker.

And even if you are right, look at those offenses he "led" at Oakland and Tampa. That's what you want here? LOL. No freaking way. Not this guy.

Every position Gruden has held outside of HC was an offensive coaching position. :kubepalm::wadepalm:

dalemurphy
12-29-2010, 10:43 AM
As a fan I could accept the scenario of HC/OC Kubiak & DC Phillips, but
many couldn't for sure.
Atleast it would give us a lot to talk about during the long offseason. For example, would Phillips install the 3-4 and if they did, would they contemplate trading Mario to a 4-3 team where he was utilized to the max, as many do think he must be a 4-3 guy for max results ?

Mario and A.Smith are both ideally suited to play DE in a 3-4, IMO. Mario wouldn't like the position because he would not be able to accumulate double-digit sack totals but he would excel in the system.

GP
12-29-2010, 10:48 AM
My guess is what's going on is that the Texans will "distance" themeselves from the Cowher talk. They'll float a lot of names of HC candidates and interviewees like Hue Jackson, Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, plus several more. That way the fanbase will really be scratching their heads and not wanting those so when its announced Phillips will replace Bush as DC and Kubiak will stay, the fanbase will be more accepting of it than if everyone was led to believe Cowher was a possibility. Damage control, slight of hand, manipulation, mind control... these guys are jedis working on Kirby.

Another similar possibility is this:

Cowher, it has been perceived, has been angling for the Texans job since last year. And the rumor persists to this very day.

At first, Bob said we were on the right track (after the Ravens game). But all of a sudden, following the Broncos debacle, things are looking different.

Some names have been floated out there. Names none of us believe could be an honest-to-goodness accurate list of candidates for replacing Kubiak. The names don't fit, in our opinions, because of various situations...most importantly because Rick Smith would be rolling the dice on a replacement HC who has to 100% get this team to the playoffs. None of the guys on this current list of potential candidates gives us confidence in a happy ending.

It's been almost a decade since Bob McNair kick-started this team. He hasn't made any sort of big splash with personnel. OK, maybe Casserly was a popular well-known NFL guy we can say was a "splash." That's still a stretch, IMO. A "splash' would be a former Super Bowl winning head coach who had a honest-to-goodness LEGACY at Pittsburgh. That, my friends, would be a splash.

Now comes the slight-of-hand, smoke and mirrors act. If you are Bob McNair, you can't just fire Kubiak on Monday and hire Cowher on Tuesday. Hell, you can't even hire Cowher that same week IMO. Why? Because Cowher was angling for this job last year, the rumors persisted all the way through this season, and you just fired Kubiak. And turned around and immediately hired Cowher. That's going to be flagged for 15 yards by the image consulting department at Reliant. You can't be perceived as potentially havingyour guy in the bag well before the end of the season.

In fact, it could also be that Cowher himself wants it done this way. He wants to make sure the season is over, the dust has settled, and Kubiak is well out of the picture before entering Reliant facilities and doing all the interviews with all the sports media.

It is possible that the plan has been cooked up for quite some time, and these names being floated out there is just one part of the image-sustaining effort by McNair & Cowher. They both want to avoid the ugliness if they can.

I'm not saying this is how it is. Just saying that if Bob McNair is a smart man, he fires the majority of the staff (based on Cowher's recommendations, obviously) and then he hires a proven winner and allows him to rebuild the coaching staff and draft HIS players to fix the mess on defense and add some stuff to the offense as he also sees fit.

That's IF McNair is a smart man. If he's not, then we'll see what Troy Calhoun or Bobby McDungledorf or Tommy Fingerlicker can do with a 10-year-old EXPANSION team. Surely Bob's not a dope to the point that he thinks he can go low-key on HC for a third-straight time? LOL. We'll see. :popcorn:

DerekLee1
12-29-2010, 11:12 AM
How about Cowher coming here and hiring Wade as his 3-4 DC?

scourge
12-29-2010, 11:55 AM
WHat? Get out of town.

Gruden was a defense guy in Oakland and a defense guy in Tampa. With both places having a VERY mediocre offense with VERY mediocre QBs who just barely got it done on game day.

You guys are off your rocker.

And even if you are right, look at those offenses he "led" at Oakland and Tampa. That's what you want here? LOL. No freaking way. Not this guy.

Doesn't sound like you even have a rocker to be off of.


Prior to the Head Coach gigs he's was...


1988 _ Southeast Missouri State
(quarterbacks coach)

1989 _ University of Pacific
(wide receivers coach)

1990 _ San Francisco 49ers
(offensive QC coach)

1991 _ University of Pittsburgh
(wide receivers coach)

1992 _ Green Bay Packers
(offensive assistant)

1993-1994 _ Green Bay Packers
(wide receivers coach)

1995-1997 _ Philadelphia Eagles
(offensive coordinator)



Yep, he was totally a Defense guy...

Both Gary and Wade would :kubepalm::wadepalm: your comment.

Maddict5
12-29-2010, 12:13 PM
i read somewhere that wade co-ordinated a 4-3 when bum was HC for the eagles. if thats true, there's no reason why kubiak should get a gap 'rebuilding defence' yr next yr

infantrycak
12-29-2010, 12:20 PM
i read somewhere that wade co-ordinated a 4-3 when bum was HC for the eagles. if thats true, there's no reason why kubiak should get a gap 'rebuilding defence' yr next yr

Bum was never HC for the Eagles.

JB
12-29-2010, 12:23 PM
i read somewhere that wade co-ordinated a 4-3 when bum was HC for the eagles. if thats true, there's no reason why kubiak should get a gap 'rebuilding defence' yr next yr

I think you meant the Saints?

Maddict5
12-29-2010, 12:24 PM
Bum was never HC for the Eagles.

lol well so much for that supposed nugget. has he ever co-ordinated a 4-3 at NO, Philly, Denver or the Bills?

scourge
12-29-2010, 12:27 PM
Bum was never HC for the Eagles.

For the Eagles he may have been referring to Buddy Ryan instead of Bum Phillips, though I don't know what defensive scheme he ran while in Philly

otisbean
12-29-2010, 12:30 PM
For the Eagles he may have been referring to Buddy Ryan instead of Bum Phillips, though I don't know what defensive scheme he ran while in Philly

Buddy Ryan ran a 46 defense which is a variation of the 4-3, Fisher and Williams both run it currently

Ole Miss Texan
12-29-2010, 12:32 PM
lol well so much for that supposed nugget. has he ever co-ordinated a 4-3 at NO, Philly, Denver or the Bills?

I remember reading on a Bills board when Phillips was fired that they wouldn't mind him coming over there as DC. I think they mentioned that while he's mostly a 3-4 guy, the Bills implemented a 4-3 successfully for a little bit under him. Maybe not long... I think it was due to injuries or lack of personnel or something, but he put them in a 4-3 base.

Point is, I have this sneaking suspicion that he's a pretty smart defensive mind and, while he likes the 3-4 better, I don't think he's a complete dumba** when it comes to the 4-3. I could see us going a hybrid system next year.

steelbtexan
12-29-2010, 12:32 PM
My guess is what's going on is that the Texans will "distance" themeselves from the Cowher talk. They'll float a lot of names of HC candidates and interviewees like Hue Jackson, Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, plus several more. That way the fanbase will really be scratching their heads and not wanting those so when its announced Phillips will replace Bush as DC and Kubiak will stay, the fanbase will be more accepting of it than if everyone was led to believe Cowher was a possibility. Damage control, slight of hand, manipulation, mind control... these guys are jedis working on Kirby.

Yes they are

I wont forget and I dont think most of the fan base will either.

McNair is trying to get the fan base off his back.

He's in a pickle over this. Because he needs to hire a proven winner and most of the fan base wont accept less.

With that said Smith will be retained.

J_R
12-29-2010, 12:42 PM
JasonLaCanfora (http://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora)

Speaking to coaches and executives today, hearing rumblings of Wade Phillips possibly landing as coordinator in HOU w/ Kubiak as head coach

Many, myself included, figured the Texans collapse, including an on-field fight, would lead to a taskmaster taking over as head coach...

But from what I've heard this morning, that might not be the end result there.

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 12:48 PM
I normally like LaCanfora, but referencing the on-field fight between Smith and Cushing? Dude needs to get some context before pushing that crap.

CloakNNNdagger
12-29-2010, 01:08 PM
Buddy Ryan ran a 46 defense which is a variation of the 4-3, Fisher and Williams both run it currently

It was considered a 4-3 D with the moving of a safety up into the "box" instead of a fourth linebacker that was used in a 4-4 D. That was the D anchored by Reggie White.

As an aside, it's funny how many fans (excluding you) refer to the "4-6 defense" instead of the "46 defense." There was never such a formation that used 6 LBs. The "46" was the jersey number of the safety that showcased Ryan's new scheme.

IDEXAN
12-29-2010, 01:09 PM
After the Texans blew the Denver game 24-23, I didn't see how owner Bob McNair could bring back coach Gary Kubiak for a sixth season. Now I'm hearing McNair will keep Kubiak but will insist that he hire a new defensive coordinator and defensive backs coach. That means Frank Bush and David Gibbs will be gone. McNair could demand more changes.


I've never seen a coaching controversy like this one. So many fans and some members of the local media want Kubiak to be fired. The Texans could finish 5-11, their worst record since 2005, which was Dom Capers' last season. And yet two defeats ago, McNair said he thought they were on the right track.


McNair is patient and optimistic. Like Kubiak, he's aware of the controversy, but McNair's going to do what he believe is best for the team. The more I think about it — and the more people I talk to — the more I'm convinced McNair is going to announce early next week that Kubiak will return.
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2010/12/i_believe_kubiak_will_return_a.html
That was McClains latest comments on this subject, posted 'bout 15 minutes ago.

ThaShark316
12-29-2010, 01:14 PM
i believe Hervoyel(Sp?) said it...

McNair wants to be like PIT and not DAL/WAS, hiring/firing coaches every six seconds....

I just don't see this team doing shit with Kubiak anymore.

Grams
12-29-2010, 01:14 PM
sorry wrong thread

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 01:28 PM
Nevermind thi post, refer to my next one.

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 01:34 PM
Wow, there is so much stuff in that article and you pull just $$ out of it. I lived that time as a Cowboys fan. It wasn't about money. It was about two gigantic egos.

I'm sorry, I see what you & others are saying in response to my post. I didn't mean to imply the rift was caused because of the money. It was (from my understanding) an ego thing. Jimmy didn't even want to go to Jacksonville but the way Jerry handled the, "He can't go anywhere unless I let him" aspect is what started the ego battle.

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 01:59 PM
My guess is what's going on is that the Texans will "distance" themeselves from the Cowher talk. They'll float a lot of names of HC candidates and interviewees like Hue Jackson, Troy Calhoun, Mike Sherman, plus several more. That way the fanbase will really be scratching their heads and not wanting those so when its announced Phillips will replace Bush as DC and Kubiak will stay, the fanbase will be more accepting of it than if everyone was led to believe Cowher was a possibility. Damage control, slight of hand, manipulation, mind control... these guys are jedis working on Kirby.

I don't think McNair would toy with other genuine head coaching candidates if he plans on keeping Kubiak.

I heard on the radio on the way home, that the rumor is if they can get Wade as DC, Kubiak stays. If not, they'll be looking to replace Kubiak. I only like that idea, because it's sort of like hedging your bets.

Let's say Kubiak is blaming the defensive woes on injuries, then we start 2011 giving up 400 yards a game like we did in 2006 & 2010, fire Kubiak, promote Wade (who has done nothing but win as a head coach).

Of course that only works, if McNair still has faith in Kubiak. I know the players still believe in Kubiak, though it isn't common for the players not to buy-in with the knew coach, it has happened, Singletary in SanFrancisco, Shanahan in Washington, Mangina in Cleveland, Shell in Oakland, etc...

I don't know why he wouldn't just hire Wade as the head coach, and skip the interim step. Like I said, Wade has a history of winning. While I don't think he is the best candidate out there, if we want him as a just in case.... I mean what kind of thinking is that? To think Gary is more qualified than Wade with his history. To tell Wade, "I want you as a DC, but not as a HC, unless Kubiak screws me again"

Really?

Are you really saying you have faith in Kubiak if you're hiring his Interim replacement already?

Mr. White
12-29-2010, 02:07 PM
Disclaimer: This post is total speculation. I'm just putting 2 and 2 together.


I think this is a done deal and has been for weeks. That would somewhat explain the Frank Bush at the bar story.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think some kind of deal was struck before the Ravens game. Otherwise, I doubt we see Bum in Texans gear on Battle Red Day.

http://images.chron.com/photos/2009/11/23/19323653/600xPopupGallery.jpg

I'm going to reserve judgment and just hope for the best. Wade might just be what the doctor ordered. This is the kind of hire that ended up putting the Saints over the top.

Ole Miss Texan
12-29-2010, 02:11 PM
I don't think McNair would toy with other genuine head coaching candidates if he plans on keeping Kubiak.

I heard on the radio on the way home, that the rumor is if they can get Wade as DC, Kubiak stays. If not, they'll be looking to replace Kubiak. I only like that idea, because it's sort of like hedging your bets.

Let's say Kubiak is blaming the defensive woes on injuries, then we start 2011 giving up 400 yards a game like we did in 2006 & 2010, fire Kubiak, promote Wade (who has done nothing but win as a head coach).

Of course that only works, if McNair still has faith in Kubiak. I know the players still believe in Kubiak, though it isn't common for the players not to buy-in with the knew coach, it has happened, Singletary in SanFrancisco, Shanahan in Washington, Mangina in Cleveland, Shell in Oakland, etc...

I don't know why he wouldn't just hire Wade as the head coach, and skip the interim step. Like I said, Wade has a history of winning. While I don't think he is the best candidate out there, if we want him as a just in case.... I mean what kind of thinking is that? To think Gary is more qualified than Wade with his history. To tell Wade, "I want you as a DC, but not as a HC, unless Kubiak screws me again"

Really?

Are you really saying you have faith in Kubiak if you're hiring his Interim replacement already?
I don't think Wade would totally see it that way. He's said that he would be interested in going somewhere to coach again even if its a DC position and not the HC. Wade would fill a void we desperately need at DC. Kubiak could focus on Offense. If Kubiak is fired and Wade is now our HC... we still need to find a new DC even if Phillips has a lot of say in it.

I just feel like our quickest way to start winning is going the Phillips DC route. If Phillips can't turn this defense around... there's no way he would have made a better HC for us.

BetaV1
12-29-2010, 02:14 PM
Thunderkyss, I agree with nearly everything you say except for the fact that the Texans should hire Wade as head coach and get rid of Kubiak. Count me out!

As far as "why" McNair's handling of Wade goes, who is to say McNair isn't the one who is high on hiring Wade? You guys in Texas are obviously no strangers as to what happens in Dallas. It won't exactly be a great PR move to fire Kubiak only to bring in a coach who many claim has the exact same faults as Kubiak, if not worse.

BetaV1
12-29-2010, 02:16 PM
I'm going to reserve judgment and just hope for the best. Wade might just be what the doctor ordered. This is the kind of hire that ended up putting the Saints over the top.

Exactly! :)

BTW, I got Rick Roll'd. :(

Mr. White
12-29-2010, 02:22 PM
Exactly! :)

BTW, I got Rick Roll'd. :(

LMAO. Nothing personal. Been doing it for a couple of years now. I tried to rep you, but I have to spread some around.

Could somebody get him for me?

houstonhurricane
12-29-2010, 02:45 PM
LMAO. Nothing personal. Been doing it for a couple of years now. I tried to rep you, but I have to spread some around.

Could somebody get him for me?

Done.

Mr. White
12-29-2010, 02:54 PM
I'm convinced this is going to happen now. The PR machine is set to "spin control."

From the Houston Texans Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/HoustonTexans).

Bum Phillips and Dan Pastorini were at Texans practice today.

From Scurfield's Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/NickScurfield).

Bum Phillips: "Gary Kubiak's as good a football coach as anybody's got." Will post his full comments shortly on HT.com

Dutchrudder
12-29-2010, 02:56 PM
I'm convinced this is going to happen now. The PR machine is set to "spin control."

From the Houston Texans Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/HoustonTexans).



From Scurfield's Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/NickScurfield).

John Clayton of ESPN is also reporting this speculation as well:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5966936

HoustonFrog
12-29-2010, 03:27 PM
HoustonFrog reporting that this team and organization is quickly becoming a punchline.

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 03:29 PM
I normally like LaCanfora, but referencing the on-field fight between Smith and Cushing? Dude needs to get some context before pushing that crap.

Well, the lesson to take from this is that LaCanfora, like the rest of the national media, perceives the Texans to be a bottom-dwelling joke of a football operation right now.

And to be quite honest, that's how I'm perceiving them to be, as well.

I'm going to reserve judgment and just hope for the best. Wade might just be what the doctor ordered. This is the kind of hire that ended up putting the Saints over the top.

I read your disclaimer, so this is more of a piggy-back to your point than taking you to task.

The problem I have with this comparison is that Kubiak has not shown any inclination in the past five years to be the head coach and team leader than Sean Payton has been for the Saints.

I don't think a better defense will magically transform Kubiak into something he has not been for five seasons.

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 03:37 PM
Well, the lesson to take from this is that LaCanfora, like the rest of the national media, perceives the Texans to be a bottom-dwelling joke of a football operation right now.

And to be quite honest, that's how I'm perceiving them to be, as well.


Sure, folks see a clip and they will ask questions. But not to offer up the context of it, while leveraging it in promoting their digital footprint is shoddy at best, for his trade and past work.

HoustonFrog
12-29-2010, 03:39 PM
I'm not sure why an excuse for Gary is that he might be like "add guy who is great coach." 5 years shows he is not

cameronkrazie86
12-29-2010, 03:39 PM
This would be a good hire for the defense which is positive news. However, the downside is another year of Kubiak and unfortunately, that's not something I'm looking forward to seeing.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing new and creative ways to lose that as a fan, I want wholesale changes. The way this season has gone, I'm eagerly awaiting a missed field goal in overtime that gets returned for a game winning TD from Jacksonville this weekend. I mean, they've had just about every other possible way to lose, why not add that one?

Phillips would be a good hire if they're going to keep Kubiak anyway. It's just very disappointing to think that not even this trainwreck of a season can get him fired. Regardless, go Texans and I'll support Kubiak if he stays.

Mr. White
12-29-2010, 03:54 PM
I read your disclaimer, so this is more of a piggy-back to your point than taking you to task.

The problem I have with this comparison is that Kubiak has not shown any inclination in the past five years to be the head coach and team leader than Sean Payton has been for the Saints.

I don't think a better defense will magically transform Kubiak into something he has not been for five seasons.

I don't disagree at all. The reason why I made the comparison is because Payton is the only other HC I know of that calls his own offense....at least according the the NFLN analysts.

I don't see the same leadership qualities in Kubiak that I see in Payton. I also think Schaub is a great QB, but nowhere close to the leader that Drew Brees is...but then again, I don't think any other QB comes close to Brees in that regard.

All we can do as fans is hope that Kubiak has learned something more about leadership from all the adversity this season. I hope a real fire has been lit under his ass.

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 04:43 PM
Disclaimer: This post is total speculation. I'm just putting 2 and 2 together.


I think this is a done deal and has been for weeks. That would somewhat explain the Frank Bush at the bar story.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I think some kind of deal was struck before the Ravens game. Otherwise, I doubt we see Bum in Texans gear on Battle Red Day.

http://images.chron.com/photos/2009/11/23/19323653/600xPopupGallery.jpg

I'm going to reserve judgment and just hope for the best. Wade might just be what the doctor ordered. This is the kind of hire that ended up putting the Saints over the top.

Bum has been a Texans fan since the beginning. He's also been supporting Kubiak all year. There were several games where he was on the morning show with ND & Mark, and he's been saying Kubiak is a great head coach.

I think it was before Wade was fired when he said that.

texanchris
12-29-2010, 05:01 PM
We are going to use :wadepalm: a lot more if Wade becomes our D coordinator

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 05:31 PM
Sure, folks see a clip and they will ask questions. But not to offer up the context of it, while leveraging it in promoting their digital footprint is shoddy at best, for his trade and past work.

yep. And that's where perception comes into play. If had been two Patriots going at it, the media would report about their fire and intensity. But when Texans players do it, it's a sign of a team in turmoil and sinking fast.

I can only speculate, but perhaps he was just referring to the players going at it as a result of frustration due to the losing record and sorry state of the defense, both indicative of a head coach with his head up his butt.

Texecutioner
12-29-2010, 07:40 PM
HoustonFrog reporting that this team and organization is quickly becoming a punchline.

Ah man, you gotta love this Frog. You go from having to root for a soft Wade Phillips in Dallas for several years all the while having to root for a soft Gary Kubiak in Houston. Both teams fall on their faces, and what does the even more loserish organization the Texans do? They go out and get the other soft guy who was coaching in Texas. Lol!

All you can do is just laugh. If they do this, I'll continue to root against them, because they won't go anywhere. I could care less if Kubes somehow makes it to the post season in his 6th season here. He'll fail and do a ton of dumb stuff like a non playoff coach does that will never win in the post season.

This move is right up Mcnair's alley. Like you said, this organization is a joke. The fact that Kubiak and Rick Smith are still employed right now is a travesty to any sports fan in Houston.

HoustonFrog
12-29-2010, 08:12 PM
He randomly called in to tell John and Justice what he think makes a great coach and thus a top team. He went through guys like Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, Parcells, etc. He said when they entered a room guys stopped what they were doing and waiting for them to talk. They had some fear in them. Their main goal was to be one of the 11 guys that got to play. When the trams had that attitude and the fear they knew the guy next to them was ready for battle and games. He said he learned the difference his last year in Tampa where they were 2-14 under Sam Wyche. He said guys just kept doing what they were doing when he walked in. They got used to the status quo. He said all of the top guys he played for or saw weren't exactly liked and that he gets suspicious when he hears players like a coach. There is no such thing as a players coach. It was very eye opening. He says the Packers coach now commands alot of respect and he doesn't get blustery or act tough, guys just know who the boss is.

Here this is if you didn't see it in the other thread

http://thegame.podbean.com/2010/12/29/alanzo-highsmith-12-28-10/

texansdrummer
12-29-2010, 08:21 PM
I don't think Wade would totally see it that way. He's said that he would be interested in going somewhere to coach again even if its a DC position and not the HC. Wade would fill a void we desperately need at DC. Kubiak could focus on Offense. If Kubiak is fired and Wade is now our HC... we still need to find a new DC even if Phillips has a lot of say in it.

I just feel like our quickest way to start winning is going the Phillips DC route. If Phillips can't turn this defense around... there's no way he would have made a better HC for us.

If we are keeping Kubes, this is as good of an option as we have. Had our defense held opponents to less than 23 points a game, we'd have 11 wins right now. Holding an opponent to less than 23 points is a reasonable thing to ask/expect of a defense, if you want to make the post-season.

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 09:08 PM
If we are keeping Kubes, this is as good of an option as we have. Had our defense held opponents to less than 23 points a game, we'd have 11 wins right now. Holding an opponent to less than 23 points is a reasonable thing to ask/expect of a defense, if you want to make the post-season.

If our defense had only allowed 23 points, our offense wouldn't have scored 17. That's the way it works here.

Just enough......

wildroot
12-29-2010, 09:45 PM
I don't have a problem with Wade as a DC but looking down the road if Kubiak ever got canned, I'm not too comfortable with Wade as HC. And this dosen't address Gary's sputtering offense that shows up for about a quarter of each game. This offense from a HC that has had five years to fine-tune this thing.

And if Gary has to be pushed into a corner to save his job by firing Bush, what's that say about his commitment to doing what's best for this team...clearly this change shouldn't come at the business end of an ultimatum.

I don't like it.

HoustonFrog
12-29-2010, 10:00 PM
I don't have a problem with Wade as a DC but looking down the road if Kubiak ever got canned, I'm not too comfortable with Wade as HC. And this dosen't address Gary's sputtering offense that shows up for about a quarter of each game. This offense from a HC that has had five years to fine-tune this thing.

And if Gary has to be pushed into a corner to save his job by firing Bush, what's that say about his commitment to doing what's best for this team...clearly this change shouldn't come at the business end of an ultimatum. I don't like it.

I've written the bolded ad nauseum. I just don't know how this addresses any of the coaching issues from this year. The O was just as bad to start games and he never adjusted to start each game it seemed. What bothers me the most is the majority here have said THIS year is playoffs or bust for the guy for 2-3 years yet there is then an excuse or a hemming and hawing about it. The defense is bad because he handed it to a friend. That was supposed to the straw that broke the camels back but I guess there are alot of extra camels for people.

wildroot
12-29-2010, 10:10 PM
There's three problems.

The defense
The inconsistent offense
Gary's inability to take on/fix/identify/react to the issues facing this team.

He simply want to stay the course with what he has and hopes they work themselves out. Problem is, he dosen't get forever. He's had his forever.

NitroGSXR
12-29-2010, 10:35 PM
Every position Gruden has held outside of HC was an offensive coaching position. :kubepalm::wadepalm:
Interesting... I privately assumed he had previous experience. So what exactly makes him qualified to be a DC? Genuine question.