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Carr Bombed
12-29-2010, 11:42 PM
WHat? Get out of town.

Gruden was a defense guy in Oakland and a defense guy in Tampa. With both places having a VERY mediocre offense with VERY mediocre QBs who just barely got it done on game day.

You guys are off your rocker.

And even if you are right, look at those offenses he "led" at Oakland and Tampa. That's what you want here? LOL. No freaking way. Not this guy.

LOL, What?!?

Rich Gannon was a MVP under Gruden and he had the best offense in the league....they were also near the top in the league in offense pretty much his entire time there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvPIAXpu7eg

NitroGSXR
12-29-2010, 11:59 PM
LOL, What?!?

Rich Gannon was a MVP under Gruden and he had the best offense in the league....they were also near the top in the league in offense pretty much his entire time there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvPIAXpu7eg

Eerie. That looked like Matt Schaub in a Raiders uniform. Pick six. Underthrown balls. Cheap dumpoffs. An occasional bomb. Loads of yards and passes.

Carr Bombed
12-30-2010, 12:14 AM
Eerie. That looked like Matt Schaub in a Raiders uniform. Pick six. Underthrown balls. Cheap dumpoffs. An occasional bomb. Loads of yards and passes.

Yeah, except Rich Gannon was a elite QB under Gruden. He absolutely carved teams up that year. Matt Schaub has never played at a level like that.

Jackie Chiles
12-30-2010, 12:17 AM
Interesting... I privately assumed he had previous experience. So what exactly makes him qualified to be a DC? Genuine question.

He has no qualifications whatsoever to become a DC. Someone made a mistake. The same thing happens with Brian Billick. Since he had a great D in Baltimore people assume he is a defensive coach when in reality his background is offense.

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 12:53 AM
Yeah, except Rich Gannon was a elite QB under Gruden. He absolutely carved teams up that year. Matt Schaub has never played at a level like that.

I guess having the 6th most passing yards in NFL history doesn't mean much these days.

*shrugs*

Texecutioner
12-30-2010, 01:20 AM
I guess having the 6th most passing yards in NFL history doesn't mean much these days.

*shrugs*

Matt's a pretty good QB, but he's never been close to what Gannon was that season as a QB or as a team leader. Gannon was hell on wheels that one season.

thunderkyss
12-30-2010, 08:24 AM
Matt's a pretty good QB, but he's never been close to what Gannon was that season as a QB or as a team leader. Gannon was hell on wheels that one season.

Matt's not a play-maker. He's a facilitator. Gannon would make things happen. Of course, that's Gannon with Gruden, prior to Gruden, Gannon was on his way out.

Matt's a good QB, very "heady" he's got our play-book down, he reads defenses well. And that's fine, we can (or at least should be able to) win a lot of games that way, as long as the OC is introducing new wrinkles every week. But when things don't go as planned.... Matt's lost. I don't mind a QB who throws the ball away & lives to play another down, but to consistently do it on 3rd & long...

This isn't to say that Matt Schaub is the reason we lost 8 of our last 9 or whatever it is.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 10:30 AM
And this dosen't address Gary's sputtering offense that shows up for about a quarter of each game. This offense from a HC that has had five years to fine-tune this thing.

I just don't know how this addresses any of the coaching issues from this year. The O was just as bad to start games and he never adjusted to start each game it seemed.

There's three problems.

The defense
The inconsistent offense
Gary's inability to take on/fix/identify/react to the issues facing this team.

He simply want to stay the course with what he has and hopes they work themselves out. Problem is, he dosen't get forever. He's had his forever.
The inconsistent play of our Offense is a concern of mine as well. I won't blame this on the Defense but I will say towards the last half of the season, I felt Kubiak's became real conservative on Offense due to how pathetic our Defense was. I think that changed some of his plans during the game or during parts of it. I think he became very aware of Field Possession and didn't push this Offense like it should be. I think he wanted to limit as many Offensive mistakes as possible, punt the ball, regain better field position (which was consistently terrible).

I think with a much improved Defense, we'll see the Offense look different too. I think we'll be able to be more aggressive and whatnot.

I'm with you guys on some of the inconsistent play, the team coming out flat, etc. As much as I hated losing multiple times within the last minute of the game, I hated how bland our team looked coming out of the gates.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 10:38 AM
LOL, What?!?

Rich Gannon was a MVP under Gruden and he had the best offense in the league....they were also near the top in the league in offense pretty much his entire time there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvPIAXpu7eg

Eerie. That looked like Matt Schaub in a Raiders uniform. Pick six. Underthrown balls. Cheap dumpoffs. An occasional bomb. Loads of yards and passes.
Looked like Schaub to me as well.
Yeah, except Rich Gannon was a elite QB under Gruden. He absolutely carved teams up that year. Matt Schaub has never played at a level like that.

I guess having the 6th most passing yards in NFL history doesn't mean much these days.

*shrugs*
Yup, Schaub has never done that. Gannon was actually playing for him last year when he lead the league in passing and reached an NFL milestone. For the record Gannon is 11th on the list.

LOL. I'm not saying Schaub is > than Gannon or that Gannon is average or anything. I just think the comparison is pretty interesting. CB makes it like Schaub wasn't absolutely elite last year, which he was.

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 10:43 AM
Matt's not a play-maker. He's a facilitator. Gannon would make things happen.

Find me the season Rich Gannon had 62 20+ yard plays, 15 40+ yard plays or 29 TD's. Hint - they don't exist. 17 seasons in the league and never achieved any of the benchmarks Matt did all in one season. But Matt isn't a play maker and Gannon was. Gotcha.

Battle Red Flash
12-30-2010, 10:46 AM
Matt's a pretty good QB, but he's never been close to what Gannon was that season as a QB or as a team leader. Gannon was hell on wheels that one season.

Gannon was great that year, but he also had Tim Brown and Jerry Rice running routes. Those two ran the perfect route 99% of the time.

scourge
12-30-2010, 11:18 AM
Interesting... I privately assumed he had previous experience. So what exactly makes him qualified to be a DC? Genuine question.

You are probably thinking of GP's uninformed and quite stubborn opinion that Gruden is a defense-minded coach. To paraphrase Billy Madison...

GP, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

El Tejano
12-30-2010, 03:35 PM
I would've been cool with this move last year.

I just feel like getting a coach like Cowher or Gruden automatically awards us a wildcard spot by the NFL. Anything more will just be icing on the cake for the NFL. Yeah I said it, and at 5-11 I'm willing to take any kind of winning season we can get.

Instead, some other team will get those coaches. So when we play them, Matt will continue to get hit in the head with no call, we will get crazy pass interference calls etc....and the NFL will continue to tell us that we had our chance.

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 04:41 PM
Find me the season Rich Gannon had 62 20+ yard plays, 15 40+ yard plays or 29 TD's. Hint - they don't exist. 17 seasons in the league and never achieved any of the benchmarks Matt did all in one season. But Matt isn't a play maker and Gannon was. Gotcha.

Find me the seasons Matt Schaub went to the Pro Bowl four years in a row (total of six appearances), won the Pro Bowl MVP award consecutively, was selected for three All Pro teams, and won the NFL Most Valuable Player Award (hint, they don't exist)... (Gannon is the only player in NFL history to achieve back-to-back Pro Bowl MVP awards). ;)

I like Schaub, so I'm just being silly with the continuation of this debate. But honestly, Shaub winning one Pro Bowl MVP and earning one league leader in passing yards is not much to compare to Gannon's career at this point.

NitroGSXR
12-30-2010, 04:52 PM
Find me the seasons Matt Schaub went to the Pro Bowl four years in a row (total of six appearances), won the Pro Bowl MVP award consecutively, was selected for three All Pro teams, and won the NFL Most Valuable Player Award (hint, they don't exist)... (Gannon is the only player in NFL history to achieve back-to-back Pro Bowl MVP awards). ;)

I like Schaub, so I'm just being silly with the continuation of this debate. But honestly, Shaub winning one Pro Bowl MVP and earning one league leader in passing yards is not much to compare to Gannon's career at this point.

Then let's give Schaub a shot to finish out his career.FWIW, nobody compared careers. Schaub had the season of his life as did Gannon as per the youtube video that Carr Bombed posted.

FYI, Schaub still has a small shot at the probowl. Remember how he backdoored his way in last year?

:D

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 04:59 PM
Find me the seasons Matt Schaub went to the Pro Bowl four years in a row (total of six appearances), won the Pro Bowl MVP award consecutively, was selected for three All Pro teams, and won the NFL Most Valuable Player Award (hint, they don't exist)... (Gannon is the only player in NFL history to achieve back-to-back Pro Bowl MVP awards). ;)

I like Schaub, so I'm just being silly with the continuation of this debate. But honestly, Shaub winning one Pro Bowl MVP and earning one league leader in passing yards is not much to compare to Gannon's career at this point.

LOL... let cak get back to you in another decade. When did Gannon earn all those awards? Oh that's right with the Raiders, it began his 12th season in the league. Schaub is just completing his 7th season (4th as a starter).

Gannon: 1 NFL MVP, 4 Pro Bowls (2 MVPs)
Schaub: 0 NFL MVP, 1 Pro Bowl (1 MVP)

Schaub still has another 10 years to go for us to compare the two. I do hope Schaub reaches a Super Bowl... but I pray to God he doesn't throw 5 interceptions (3 returned for TDs) like Gannon did.

Double Barrel
12-30-2010, 05:15 PM
Then let's give Schaub a shot to finish out his career.FWIW, nobody compared careers. Schaub had the season of his life as did Gannon as per the youtube video that Carr Bombed posted.

FYI, Schaub still has a small shot at the probowl. Remember how he backdoored his way in last year?

:D

Well, 'cak and TK started the comparison, I was just trying to point out that Gannon wasn't a scrub.

Hopefully, Schaub's career when he retires can be compared to Gannon's, simply because that means he has many more successful years ahead of him, and hopefully in a Texans uni. I think he's a solid QB and is potentially capable of great things and I disagree with TK about Schaub not being a playmaker.

LOL... let cak get back to you in another decade. When did Gannon earn all those awards? Oh that's right with the Raiders, it began his 12th season in the league. Schaub is just completing his 7th season (4th as a starter).

Gannon: 1 NFL MVP, 4 Pro Bowls (2 MVPs)
Schaub: 0 NFL MVP, 1 Pro Bowl (1 MVP)

Schaub still has another 10 years to go for us to compare the two. I do hope Schaub reaches a Super Bowl... but I pray to God he doesn't throw 5 interceptions (3 returned for TDs) like Gannon did.

I agree. Like I said, I was more being silly about it than really trying to make a case for either QB. I like to yank 'cak's chain sometimes as he does mine, so it was more of a friendly back-and-forth than any serious attempt to debate the comparison of QBs.

Ole Miss Texan
12-30-2010, 05:21 PM
Well, 'cak and TK started the comparison, I was just trying to point out that Gannon wasn't a scrub.

Hopefully, Schaub's career when he retires can be compared to Gannon's, simply because that means he has many more successful years ahead of him, and hopefully in a Texans uni. I think he's a solid QB and is potentially capable of great things and I disagree with TK about Schaub not being a playmaker.

I agree. Like I said, I was more being silly about it than really trying to make a case for either QB. I like to yank 'cak's chain sometimes as he does mine, so it was more of a friendly back-and-forth than any serious attempt to debate the comparison of QBs.

10.4 - I actually liked discussing something different other than coaches for a change! If Schaub makes 4 Pro Bowls and becomes a League MVP with the Texans I will be a happy happy man!!!

Heath Shuler
12-30-2010, 05:21 PM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2010/12/30/lap/lap.kubewade.jpg

I guess the inmates will be running the asylum

:kubepalm:
:wadepalm:

infantrycak
12-30-2010, 05:57 PM
Well, 'cak and TK started the comparison, I was just trying to point out that Gannon wasn't a scrub.

I didn't degrade Gannon at all. I was responding to the Schaub isn't a play maker allegation. I think that is demonstrably false if the standard for reference is Gannon.

GP
12-30-2010, 06:05 PM
You are probably thinking of GP's uninformed and quite stubborn opinion that Gruden is a defense-minded coach. To paraphrase Billy Madison...

GP, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

The Super Bowl teams of the Ravens and Bucs..and the runner-up Raiders...all had two things in common:

1. Good defense.

2. A safe, conservative pocket-passing QB who didn't ASTOUND anybody but just did enough to get by.

How in the hell does that make a guy like Gruden an offense-minded guy?

The guy royally botched the QB situation in Tampa. How does this mean Gruden is a genius with the offense?

LOL. I'm sticking with talking about the topic. You can throw out movie references all you want.

Maddict5
12-30-2010, 06:21 PM
Find me the seasons Matt Schaub went to the Pro Bowl four years in a row (total of six appearances), won the Pro Bowl MVP award consecutively, was selected for three All Pro teams, and won the NFL Most Valuable Player Award (hint, they don't exist)... (Gannon is the only player in NFL history to achieve back-to-back Pro Bowl MVP awards). ;)

I like Schaub, so I'm just being silly with the continuation of this debate. But honestly, Shaub winning one Pro Bowl MVP and earning one league leader in passing yards is not much to compare to Gannon's career at this point.

what had gannon done at matt's age? :)

edit: nvm others caught it

Maddict5
12-30-2010, 06:24 PM
The Super Bowl teams of the Ravens and Bucs..and the runner-up Raiders...all had two things in common:

1. Good defense.

2. A safe, conservative pocket-passing QB who didn't ASTOUND anybody but just did enough to get by.

How in the hell does that make a guy like Gruden an offense-minded guy?

The guy royally botched the QB situation in Tampa. How does this mean Gruden is a genius with the offense?
LOL. I'm sticking with talking about the topic. You can throw out movie references all you want.

exactly. hes a totally overrated offensive coach, exactly like billick etc who rode other ppl's defences to success. you think its a coincidence all these guys are stuck in the media for yrs with nobody biting?

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 06:31 PM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2010/12/30/lap/lap.kubewade.jpg

I guess the inmates will be running the asylum

:kubepalm:
:wadepalm:

Living proof that the good old boy network is alive and well.

gary
12-30-2010, 06:52 PM
Living proof that the good old boy network is alive and well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZXygg2UR1o

djohn2oo8
12-30-2010, 10:31 PM
Anybody else find it to be TOO quiet? Of course you have McClain inhaling his jelly donuts while clamoring that he thinks Kubiak will be back, but other than that nothing new today. McNair should thing long and hard before bringing Kubiak back, why not go for the top notch coach out there who wants to be here? I think nobody really knows whats going to happen, which is why Flippity flop lard ass Mcclain changed positions more than Paris Hilton in a single day

Maddict5
12-30-2010, 11:05 PM
Anybody else find it to be TOO quiet? Of course you have McClain inhaling his jelly donuts while clamoring that he thinks Kubiak will be back, but other than that nothing new today. McNair should thing long and hard before bringing Kubiak back, why not go for the top notch coach out there who wants to be here? I think nobody really knows whats going to happen, which is why Flippity flop lard ass Mcclain changed positions more than Paris Hilton in a single day

no. i just think it seems fairly set now whats going to happen. wades coming as DC. what else is there to report really?

scourge
12-30-2010, 11:39 PM
The Super Bowl teams of the Ravens and Bucs..and the runner-up Raiders...all had two things in common:

1. Good defense.

2. A safe, conservative pocket-passing QB who didn't ASTOUND anybody but just did enough to get by.

How in the hell does that make a guy like Gruden an offense-minded guy?

The guy royally botched the QB situation in Tampa. How does this mean Gruden is a genius with the offense?

LOL. I'm sticking with talking about the topic. You can throw out movie references all you want.


1. Gruden had nothing to do with the Ravens, so what is your point?

2. I think you have no idea how to look up a coaches background on google or nfl.com It's either that, or you just enjoy making things up to sound like you have some sort of knowledge to back up your ideas. If it's the latter... EPIC FAIL. Show me anything you can find on the net that states Jon was about defense and not offense. You won't, because you can't.

3. I am sticking with the topic, too. Judging by your post here, as well as the one I initially quoted as shown below, that movie reference fits well.


WHat? Get out of town.

Gruden was a defense guy in Oakland and a defense guy in Tampa. With both places having a VERY mediocre offense with VERY mediocre QBs who just barely got it done on game day.

You guys are off your rocker.

And even if you are right, look at those offenses he "led" at Oakland and Tampa. That's what you want here? LOL. No freaking way. Not this guy.


Doesn't sound like you even have a rocker to be off of.


Prior to the Head Coach gigs he's was...

1988 _ Southeast Missouri State
(quarterbacks coach)

1989 _ University of Pacific
(wide receivers coach)

1990 _ San Francisco 49ers
(offensive QC coach)

1991 _ University of Pittsburgh
(wide receivers coach)

1992 _ Green Bay Packers
(offensive assistant)

1993-1994 _ Green Bay Packers
(wide receivers coach)

1995-1997 _ Philadelphia Eagles
(offensive coordinator)



Yep, he was totally a Defense guy...

Both Gary and Wade would :kubepalm::wadepalm: your comment.



I have no idea why you can't understand this... But just in case small lists like that are too confusing, here is some information that is more detailed.



In 1988, Jon was the passing game coordinator at Southeast Missouri State.

In 1989, former Vols offensive coordinator Walt Harris took over as head coach at the University of the Pacific in Stockton, California and brought Jon in as wide receivers coach.

In 1990, Jon began his career in the National Football League when he landed a job with the San Francisco 49ers as an offensive assistant. Able to work side by side with the likes of George Seifert, Mike Holmgren and Ray Rhodes, Jon became a "West Coast Offense" man.

The following year, Jon took a one-year hiatus from the NFL to become the wide receivers coach for the University of Pittsburgh under legendary head coach Paul Hackett.

When Mike Holmgren left the 49ers in 1992 to coach the Packers, he fulfilled a promise and called upon Jon to become his offensive assistant. In 1993, Gruden was promoted to receivers coach.

After three years with Green Bay, yet another former 49ers coach called Jon. From 1995 to '97, 31 year old Jon served under Ray Rhodes with the Philadelphia Eagles as the league's youngest offensive coordinator, where he learned to deal with the egos of Randall Cunningham and Ricky Watters (practice for Keyshawn?). In his three seasons with the Eagles, his offense never finished worse than fifth in the NFC in rushing, and lead the conference in passing in 1996.


Where in any of this do you see that he EVER had coaching experience on the defensive side, or even was remotely defense-minded?

:facepalm:

CloakNNNdagger
12-31-2010, 09:28 AM
You think I'M an idi*t?? Well, let me tell YOU Jerry, YOU'RE an idi*t for firing Wade!

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/507304/71156_Cowboys_Texans_Football.jpg

thunderkyss
12-31-2010, 10:33 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/507304/71156_Cowboys_Texans_Football.jpg

Don't worry, I didn't mention your name when
I said all that "right track" stuff.

CloakNNNdagger
12-31-2010, 01:27 PM
Maybe McNair can at least teach Wade what side his heart is on before we ever have another nationally televised game........if we ever do.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1006/espn_i_phillipsw_200.jpg

Hoss
12-31-2010, 01:29 PM
Maybe McNair can at least teach Wade what side his heart is on before we ever have another nationally televised game........if we ever do.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/1006/espn_i_phillipsw_200.jpg

Shit..:wadepalm:

Kimmy
01-03-2011, 04:54 PM
We should have NEVER created that Wade face palm avatar/smiley ... we used it so much, it brought him here!

I vote for immediate removal!

b0ng
01-16-2012, 12:04 PM
A++++ would hire again!!!!!!