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HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 02:32 PM
:kubepalm: This is exactly why Justice is such a tool. The guy just wrote that the Texans should fire Gary. He has for 2 weeks. He straight out said they should do it before the last game. Now he is devising plans to try and save a guy who isn't a winner. Spin, spin, spin for ratings. The guy should go with Kubes. I honestly think he used the Landry argument because he knows it will incite hatred on him.

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2010/12/memo_to_gary_ku.html

Memo to Gary Kubiak's players: Here's you how might save his job
Gary Kubiak is respected by his players for his decency and honesty. They know all Kubiak wants is what's best for his players and what's best for the franchise. They are speaking up for him in a way that players don't often speak up for their coach.

He has handled these last few difficult weeks with extraordinary grace. To watch him now is to understand he's the kind of guy you'd be happy to share a foxhole with.

I don't know if it's too late to save Kubiak's job or not, but I do know his players would like to try. I suggested to Joel Dreesen this morning on 1560 that he should take a group of players to see Bob McNair Monday morning and make their case.

I've thought some about that advice and now think Monday morning might be too late. They need to go Friday afternoon, or maybe Sunday evening. Regardless, the Texans need to beat Jacksonville. They need a crisp, impressive performance, a performance that would at least finish the season on a good note.

The players should speak to McNair passionately about their coach, tell him they're amazed at how this season has turned out and that if he sticks with Kubiak, the Texans will make the playoffs in 2011.

Forty years ago this season, the Cowboys suffered a humiliating home loss on Monday Night Football against the St. Louis Cardinals. Tom Landry was booed off the field at halftime. I still remember the final score: 38-0.

At that point, Tom Landry had virtually no public support among the general public. But the next day, with everyone calling for Landry's head, Cowboys owner Clint Murchison told Tex Schramm he was calling a news conference to announce he was giving Landry a 10-year extension.

No matter what others thought of Landry, Murchison believed he was the right man for the job, and even though it had taken longer than anyone hoped, the Cowboys eventually would win a championship with this coach. Murchinson was talked out of giving Landry the extension, but his faith in Landry was well placed.

He became one of the greatest coaches in NFL history. The Cowboys went to the first of two straight Super Bowls that season and the rest is history.

Players can only do so much. But I believe McNair is looking for any reason to keep Kubiak. He may have to stand up for his guy the way Murchison stood up for Landry.

Richard, you've just become the first person in history to favorably compare Gary Kubiak to Tom Landry. You're either very, very smart or very, very dumb.

OK, let's not run too far with the Landry-Kubiak comparisons. At the time of that 38-0 loss, the Cowboys had just come off four seasons when they'd gone 42-12 and twice played for the NFL championship and twice suffered first-round meltdowns against the Browns.

Landry was being ripped because he couldn't win the big one. Kubiak can't win enough of the little ones.

If the players make an impression on McNair, Kubiak must do the rest. He must lay out a clear blueprint for 2011 in his own meeting with McNair. He must tell him he has made mistakes in hiring too many of his buddies. He should announce he'll change both his staff and the personnel department.

He may not be able to throw his guys under the bus. If he can't, so be it. It's a bottom line business, and the bottom line says Kubiak has failed. If he has a plan for the future, if he has the guts to do what's necessary, if he can get out of his comfort zone in hiring the next round of coaches, McNair may be persuaded not to fire him.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 02:38 PM
I am digging the propaganda in the last couple of hours. Everyone is spinning because some folks are going down. I like that.

disaacks3
12-28-2010, 02:43 PM
I'd let Kubiak watch my house, watch my kids, etc.

...but share a FOXHOLE with him? Nope, he lacks the killer instinct I'd want next to me.

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 02:43 PM
I am digging the propaganda in the last couple of hours. Everyone is spinning because some folks are going down. I like that.

My fear is that something like this works and to me that is bad business. To me a coach shouldn't be a player's friend and if players are going to the owner it means they are too comfortable with the coach and the status quo. I hope you are right and the thing blows up though.

brakos82
12-28-2010, 02:44 PM
I'd let Kubiak watch my house, watch my kids, etc.

I dunno..... he can't defend anything. :bender:

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 02:44 PM
I'd let Kubiak watch my house, watch my kids, etc.

...but share a FOXHOLE with him? Nope, he lacks the killer instinct I'd want next to me.

You'd lose and arm and a leg but you'd finish strong and almost defeat them with some last second grenade launches. The enemy would tell you how impressed they were with you while you sit in prison eating bread.

Mr. White
12-28-2010, 02:45 PM
Justice and LZ just did a show with Joel Dreessen on 1560 this morning. It was a little tense.

Dreessen took him to task for his "Fire Kubiak" article yesterday.

He asked Dreessen something to the extent of "if you guys want to keep Kubiak so bad, how come you aren't fighting your tails off to keep him here?" I'm pretty sure this article was born out of the conversation they had on the show.

I highly recommend listening to the podcast (http://thegame.podbean.com/category/john-and-lance-show/) of the show. It isn't too often you hear a player speak this candidly when his team is in turmoil.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 02:46 PM
My fear is that something like this works and to me that is bad business. To me a coach shouldn't be a player's friend and if players are going to the owner it means they are too comfortable with the coach and the status quo. I hope you are right and the thing blows up though.

I am reading between the lines that a Smith front and a Kubiak front are beginning to take form. Mouthpieces are digging in trying to find their angle for next year's regime, IMO.

TEXANRED
12-28-2010, 02:46 PM
I personally like Kubiak. He really is a good coach. And before anyone argues look at the offense. Look at the way he handles the players and handles himself with the media. Sure he is bland and dull but at least he doesnt embarrass us and carries himself and this city with a certain amount of dignity and honor.

His down fall is he is not a defensive guy. He has hired people to take care of that, people that he trusts, and they have failed him.

And sometimes it's luck. Last night Brees shovle pass goes for a pick 6 but the Saints win on the backs of their defense.

DerekLee1
12-28-2010, 02:47 PM
I personally like Kubiak. He really is a good coach. And before anyone argues look at the offense. Look at the way he handles the players and handles himself with the media. Sure he is bland and dull but at least he doesnt embarrass us and carries himself and this city with a certain amount of dignity and honor.

His down fall is he is not a defensive guy. He has hired people to take care of that, people that he trusts, and they have failed him.

And sometimes it's luck. Last night Brees shovle pass goes for a pick 6 but the Saints win on the backs of their defense.

I agree with this. But if he is to stay, he HAS to find a defensive guru and NOT one of his "buddies". Worked out well for Sean Payton, don't you think?

TEXANRED
12-28-2010, 02:49 PM
I agree with this. But if he is to stay, he HAS to find a defensive guru and NOT one of his "buddies". Worked out well for Sean Payton, don't you think?

Singletary anyone?

Texan_Bill
12-28-2010, 02:50 PM
:kubepalm: This is exactly why Justice is such a tool. The guy just wrote that the Texans should fire Gary. He has for 2 weeks. He straight out said they should do it before the last game. Now he is devising plans to try and save a guy who isn't a winner. Spin, spin, spin for ratings. The guy should go with Kubes. I honestly think he used the Landry argument because he knows it will incite hatred on him.

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2010/12/memo_to_gary_ku.html

Apparently you didn't hear the interview with Joel D this morning. Dickie is writing this in such a way to describe their interaction on the radio. I'm sure in Dickie's heart of hearts he still feels the way he did before.

Dickie is a tool, but not for this.


Richard, you've just become the first person in history to favorably compare Gary Kubiak to Tom Landry. You're either very, very smart or very, very dumb.
And for the record, Landry and Kubiak are both Texans. Now, I've made the second comparison. :D

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 02:56 PM
I personally like Kubiak. He really is a good coach. And before anyone argues look at the offense. Look at the way he handles the players and handles himself with the media. Sure he is bland and dull but at least he doesnt embarrass us and carries himself and this city with a certain amount of dignity and honor.

His down fall is he is not a defensive guy. He has hired people to take care of that, people that he trusts, and they have failed him.

And sometimes it's luck. Last night Brees shovle pass goes for a pick 6 but the Saints win on the backs of their defense.

I respect all opinions here but I really will never understand the simplicity of the above bolded.

In order to lose games and to be down by 14-21 in a majority of games you have to have 2 things happen. The defense fails and the offense fails with them and starts slow. Add bad special teams to this too. Just because the offense can then put up point against prevents late in games doesn't mean a guy is an offensive genius. It also doesn't answer the questions 1) why wasn't the team prepared to play 60 minutes 2) why wasn't the philosophy adjusted to take advantage of their strengths(running Arian late instead of 5 carries or running the hurry up to start games and put teams on their heals) 3) why has he mismanaged games for 3 years now...timeouts, challenges, halfback passes, personnel packages, etc. and 4) why would things be different since he has handled personnel and hiring coordinators, etc for 5 years now

Saying. "the offense is good" doesn't make a good coach. Wade Phillips has a great defensive mind but he got confused as a head coach. He mismanged late leads. He didn't have them prepared in big games late. And he ACTUALLY won games. They had a great D for a few years though. Who cares when you lose.

Special Teams is another story too. I just hate throwing out the generality while glossing the fact that the offense hasn't won anything.

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 03:03 PM
Apparently you didn't hear the interview with Joel D this morning. Dickie is writing this in such a way to describe their interaction on the radio. I'm sure in Dickie's heart of hearts he still feels the way he did before.

Dickie is a tool, but not for this.



And for the record, Landry and Kubiak are both Texans. Now, I've made the second comparison. :D

My bad!I stopped listening to alot of radio too.:) Thanks for the info TB. I'll go listen to it./

Dishman
12-28-2010, 05:42 PM
I personally like Kubiak. He really is a good coach. And before anyone argues look at the offense. Look at the way he handles the players and handles himself with the media. Sure he is bland and dull but at least he doesnt embarrass us and carries himself and this city with a certain amount of dignity and honor.

His down fall is he is not a defensive guy. He has hired people to take care of that, people that he trusts, and they have failed him.

And sometimes it's luck. Last night Brees shovle pass goes for a pick 6 but the Saints win on the backs of their defense.

He's not a defensive guy, you are correct.

He's also not a great evaluator talent whether it be players or coaches.
He's terrible at clock management.
He regularly pulls idiocy out of a hat by proclaiming he didn't know down and distance and other such things.
He's mediocre as a head coach.

He's failed himself by surrounding himself with the people he has. But lets go ahead and give him a 3rd chance to hang himself even more. After all, it's not his fault his coaching picks flat out have sucked.

wagonhed
12-28-2010, 05:47 PM
I'd let Kubiak watch my house, watch my kids, etc.

...but share a FOXHOLE with him? Nope, he lacks the killer instinct I'd want next to me.

I'd share a foxhole with him because foxholes are for hiding. I wouldn't share a fighting hole with him though :)

Wolf
12-28-2010, 05:58 PM
I'd let Kubiak watch my house, watch my kids, etc.
.
http://www.methodshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Antoine-Dodson.jpg
I read that to the tune of that dumb ass song :kubepalm:

Norg
12-28-2010, 06:04 PM
Dressen was almost in tears

Man like i said has the time Gets nearer I think i wanna stick with KUBES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

machineo
12-28-2010, 06:34 PM
-look at the offense.
-Look at the way he handles the players and handles himself with the media. Sure he is bland and dull but at least he doesnt embarrass us and carries himself and this city with a certain amount of dignity and honor.
-He has hired people to take care of that, people that he trusts, and they have failed him.


-Look at the offense, where they don't give Arian enough carries half the time.
-Look at the way he rarely talks to players on the field and reads the same script to the media every week. You're not embarrassed by last week's repeated use of the answer "I don't know"? It's pretty embarrassing to go 1-8.
-After 5 years he can't spout a philosophy of increased accountability while supporting Bush/Gibbs when we were on pace for the leagues worst pass D of all time

Double Barrel
12-28-2010, 06:59 PM
My fear is that something like this works and to me that is bad business. To me a coach shouldn't be a player's friend and if players are going to the owner it means they are too comfortable with the coach and the status quo. I hope you are right and the thing blows up though.

Interesting to note that Landry was notorious for being aloof with players as it pertains to "being friends" or getting close to them. Most players thought Landry was cold and didn't care about their personal lives. The reality is that he did not feel that a head coach could do his job if they did not respect (and even fear) him, so he never wanted to be equal with them as friends.

Gary is the exact opposite, even to the point of referring to players as kids instead of men.

There is no comparison between Tom Landry's HoF career as both a player and a coach to Gary Kubiak who has John Elway to thank for just about everything on his resume (thank Steve Young for the other thing on his resume).

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 07:02 PM
Interesting to note that Landry was notorious for being aloof with players as it pertains to "being friends" or getting close to them. Most players thought Landry was cold and didn't care about their personal lives. The reality is that he did not feel that a head coach could do his job if they did not respect (and even fear) him, so he never wanted to be equal with them as friends.

Gary is the exact opposite, even to the point of referring to players as kids instead of men.

There is no comparison between Tom Landry's HoF career as both a player and a coach to Gary Kubiak who has John Elway to thank for just about everything on his resume (thank Steve Young for the other thing on his resume).

That is where Wade Phillips fits in :kitten:

“The perception is once you’re fired that you’re not a very good head coach,” Phillips said. “It happened to me in Buffalo. We were 29-19 in Buffalo. Once I was fired there I couldn’t get a head-coaching job because they thought, you know, I wasn’t a good enough coach. They didn’t look at my record, they just said, ‘Oh, gosh, he’s fired, so we gotta get somebody else.’ It took me a long time to get another head-coaching job. You know, we went 34-22, which is pretty good. I went out as the same winning percentage of Tom Landry, so I don’t feel bad about my head-coaching career. I think they’re gonna look at me more as a coordinator, and that’s fine with me. I just wanna coach.”

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 08:43 PM
Justice and LZ just did a show with Joel Dreessen on 1560 this morning. It was a little tense.

Dreessen took him to task for his "Fire Kubiak" article yesterday.

He asked Dreessen something to the extent of "if you guys want to keep Kubiak so bad, how come you aren't fighting your tails off to keep him here?" I'm pretty sure this article was born out of the conversation they had on the show.

I highly recommend listening to the podcast (http://thegame.podbean.com/category/john-and-lance-show/) of the show. It isn't too often you hear a player speak this candidly when his team is in turmoil.

I think there are many guys out there, trying to "create" a lack of effort on the players part, but I'm not seeing it. They appear to be working their asses off..... which is what you expect to see from guys trying to save their coach.

They just aren't getting the results. Too many people believe effort is all you need to win games.... heck, the other team plays with effort too.

I'd be pretty insulted if I were a player, being accused of not giving everything, when I am.

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 10:34 PM
I think there are many guys out there, trying to "create" a lack of effort on the players part, but I'm not seeing it. They appear to be working their asses off..... which is what you expect to see from guys trying to save their coach.

They just aren't getting the results. Too many people believe effort is all you need to win games.... heck, the other team plays with effort too.

I'd be pretty insulted if I were a player, being accused of not giving everything, when I am.

No one is saying that these guys shouldn't be upset at people questioning their work ethic. They should. I get it.

But there are two sides to that. Just as they have a right to be upset at people questioning their work ethic, other people have a right to be upset at the results (or lack thereof).

The attitude seems to be "Hey, we're working our butts off. Don't criticize anything we do."

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Professional athletes have to accept both the glory and the burden of what they do for a living.

houstonspartan
12-29-2010, 02:00 AM
I just listened to part of the podcast. I used to like Dreessen, but he sounds like a TOTAL LOSER.

Geez.

Joe Texan
12-29-2010, 06:26 AM
I have noticed the nutless HOUSTON media has grown wings and is flying with the Puplic storm for coach

Seņor Stan
12-29-2010, 07:09 AM
I just listened to part of the podcast. I used to like Dreessen, but he sounds like a TOTAL LOSER.

Geez.

Another example of two people listening to the exact same thing and coming away with totally different opinions.

I thought Dreessen came off as a real stand up guy who has his coaches back.

Let's see, hardworking, loyal, plays through injury, knife and bow hunter...yeah...he's a loser.

BetaV1
12-29-2010, 07:24 AM
Just so people know, there are a large number of "nice guy" coaches who have been pretty successful: Jimmy Johnson and Bill Walsh immediately come to my mind.

Sometimes it's about putting the right personalities together. Some players respond better to authority; others respond better to loyalty.

infantrycak
12-29-2010, 10:34 AM
Another example of two people listening to the exact same thing and coming away with totally different opinions.

I thought Dreessen came off as a real stand up guy who has his coaches back.

Let's see, hardworking, loyal, plays through injury, knife and bow hunter...yeah...he's a loser.

Exactly and the comment you responded to is one of the reasons discussion is so difficult. Some people just can't understand you don't have to hate someone you disagree with.

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 02:18 PM
No one is saying that these guys shouldn't be upset at people questioning their work ethic. They should. I get it.

But there are two sides to that. Just as they have a right to be upset at people questioning their work ethic, other people have a right to be upset at the results (or lack thereof).

The attitude seems to be "Hey, we're working our butts off. Don't criticize anything we do."

Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Professional athletes have to accept both the glory and the burden of what they do for a living.

I don't get that. To me it sounds like he's saying the effort should be obvious, if you're going to criticize, criticize for something real, don't make things up.

Wasn't he playing hurt?

I think he did a fine job owning up to his share of the blame, didn't throw any of his teammates under the bus, and acknowledged the teams awareness of our frustration.