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Mr. White
12-28-2010, 12:58 PM
From Lance Zierlein's Twitter (http://twitter.com/#!/LanceZierlein) page.

The word on the agent grapevine is that Rick Smith will remain as GM and be in charge of hiring a new head coach for the Texans

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 12:59 PM
Smith will probably hire somebody from Denver.

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 01:00 PM
I'm torn here. I'm not a Smith fan. The drafts have been ok and they haven't hit in Free Agency. But it does break up the Denver connection and who knows what kind of ultimatum he gets as to what he is allowed to do. I saw the General say the same thing in his chat today so it is out there. I'd prefer they let all Denver associates go.

Ryan
12-28-2010, 01:00 PM
I really don't have much of an issue with this, as long as he hires the best coach for the team, not just some guy he's buddies with. Seems to be an ongoing trend with this organization.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 01:01 PM
I have zero confidence in Smith's abilities. McNair is making a big mistake if this is what he is planning.

How many head coaches has he hired? :kubepalm:

Ckw
12-28-2010, 01:01 PM
Oh shit. Please say it ain't so.

Come on, Bob!!!!! You can't be that dense, can you?

:facepalm:

Norg
12-28-2010, 01:01 PM
RIck Smith drafts to many BUST BOOOOOOO this idea sucks :kubepalm::wadepalm:

Why dont u just hire COwer and let him Hire da GM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

silvrhand
12-28-2010, 01:02 PM
I'm torn here. I'm not a Smith fan. The drafts have been ok and they haven't hit in Free Agency. But it does break up the Denver connection and who knows what kind of ultimatum he gets as to what he is allowed to do. I saw the General say the same thing in his chat today so it is out there. I'd prefer they let all Denver associates go.

We could have worst GM's than Rick Smith IMHO, we don't know why they didn't go after FA signings, we don't know if Kubiak was the issue or Rick Smith.. So if we end up with Kubiak gone, and Cowher in with Rick Smith, I'm ok with that.

He hasn't done what I consider a super job, but he hasn't done a bad one either.

Lucky
12-28-2010, 01:02 PM
Hopefully, it will be a Casserly-like stay, with Smith hanging on through the draft only. Otherwise, another total fail by McNair proving he just doesn't get it.

Norg
12-28-2010, 01:04 PM
i say if your going to do it right u got to

CLEAN HOUSE no other way 2 do it IMO

Koolaid Time
12-28-2010, 01:05 PM
Hopefully, it will be a Casserly-like stay, with Smith hanging on through the draft only. Otherwise, another total fail by McNair proving he just doesn't get it.

The only way we will get Cowher is if there is a "clean sweep".

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 01:06 PM
Hopefully, it will be a Casserly-like stay, with Smith hanging on through the draft only. Otherwise, another total fail by McNair proving he just doesn't get it.

Hopefully Smith does like Casserly did and has a world-class draft on his way out.

Mike Kerns
12-28-2010, 01:06 PM
I'm ho hum about it. Not really a big fan of this decision (if it's true), but like it more than firing Bush and letting Kubes stay.

I don't see Smith not hiring an unproven guy.

Meh.

Mr. White
12-28-2010, 01:06 PM
I'm torn here. I'm not a Smith fan. The drafts have been ok and they haven't hit in Free Agency. But it does break up the Denver connection and who knows what kind of ultimatum he gets as to what he is allowed to do. I saw the General say the same thing in his chat today so it is out there. I'd prefer they let all Denver associates go.

I agree. To be honest, I don't know how much say he has in the organization.

I think we can give him credit for bringing in street FA's that overachieve.

I think he deserves blame for giving too much money to underachievers and not giving enough money to guys that do perform....but I'm not sure.

Maybe he'll go out like Casserly did after the draft.

Lucky
12-28-2010, 01:07 PM
The only way we will get Cowher is if there is a "clean sweep".
McNair doesn't deserve the benefit of doubt. But, I'll wait until this plays out before panning the move.

disaacks3
12-28-2010, 01:08 PM
Hopefully, it will be a Casserly-like stay, with Smith hanging on through the draft only. Otherwise, another total fail by McNair proving he just doesn't get it. Lord I hope so....Cowher wants CONTROL.

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 01:08 PM
We could have worst GM's than Rick Smith IMHO, we don't know why they didn't go after FA signings, we don't know if Kubiak was the issue or Rick Smith.. So if we end up with Kubiak gone, and Cowher in with Rick Smith, I'm ok with that.

He hasn't done what I consider a super job, but he hasn't done a bad one either.

And this was really my point. I'm not a Smith fan. But it makes me wonder what was the relationship with Kubiak(was Kubiak the #1 lead and Smith just GM in name) and whether he had Drayton McClain type limitations from McNair. I'd say no to #2 but I'm not sure why you wouldn't just call the whole experiment a fail and move on with a better GM.

NitroGSXR
12-28-2010, 01:10 PM
I want them ALL gone. We need a new staff from top to bottom.

That being said... if they had to keep somebody, I would be more receptive to keeping Kubiak over Ricky Smith. Far more receptive.

If true, I would believe this rumor to be a mega-fail and it also effectively eliminates Cowher from the table.

OzzO
12-28-2010, 01:11 PM
If it's an either / or, then I'm fine with this "either" path. However, better have that strong willed HC that can control this "yes man".

Guess Smith was bending McNair's ear during all the games in the box and on the sidelines.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Smith is signed through 2012. Why in the heck would we, the fans, want a guy who has not handled the HC process before leading the charge? Moreover, what big name HC wants to come in to work for a GM that may not be here after 2012?

This must be a trial balloon since I cannot find the competency in it. However, it reeks of the lack of competency that we have been seeing from this organization due to the cronyism and lack of experience.

GP
12-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Check my post history: I been telling you guys for more than a year now that McNair LIKES Rick Smith.

I have just always gotten that vibe. Rick Smith, IMO, is several things:

1. A minority. Hate me all you want, it DOES look good in this day and age if your organization has minorities at very high positions. This isn't "THE" reason, so don't go blasting me as a racist. It's more of a perk, in terms of positioning your organization as not being "A Good 'Ole Boys Club."

2. Contract structuring. Whether you like it or not, he's not giving goofy money to players such as Casserly did. We're out of the Dead Money era, and we're not going back there. Plus, look at how he stone-walled Daniels and Ryans during the off-season recently. They were chirping about wanting new contracts, then one day the chirping stopped.

3. He's young, AND he was brought in AFTER Kubiak. Which means he didn't hire Kubiak, he just had a prior connection with Kubiak and it was theorized they'd work well together.

In the end, it has to be understood that Gary Kubiak had a shorter shelf life than Rick Smith. Rick hasn't done anything, IMO, that outpaces the incompetence of Gary Kubiak and his coaches. IMO, McNair sees a clear distinction between GM and HC.

Which might give you all a heads-up about what type of head coach McNair and Smith will be looking at hiring: A head coach who will COACH and coach very well. Which means, IMO, that Cowher is a verrrrrry long shot at landing the Texans gig. The exception will be IF Cowher doesn't want full control.

DerekLee1
12-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Did I miss something? Did the "agent grapevine" also say that Kubiak is looking for a job?

Lucky
12-28-2010, 01:15 PM
Lord I hope so....Cowher wants CONTROL.
Kubiak had control. Smith was a facilitator. So-so at that. It could be that Cowher's guy wouldn't be available until after the draft.

Hey, I'm trying to stay positive. Kubiak on the outs gives me hope.

gary
12-28-2010, 01:15 PM
I'd much rather both be fired but something is a lot better than nothing. It might have much to do with Smith being the godfather to the grandchild of McNair. Is it Sunday yet? Oh, darn.

Surreal McCoy
12-28-2010, 01:17 PM
Smith is equally to blame for this mess as Kubiak and Bush. Fortunately this rumour came from Lance Z who also claims that Smith was overruled by Kubiak on all the bad draft picks but resisted Kubiak's interference on the good ones.

badboy
12-28-2010, 01:28 PM
Smith or Kubes (whomever is responsible for the picks) looks good when a Diles or Foster do well but let's not forget the Okoye's and Kareem Jacksons. We can argue all day about these two players but neither have done what a first round guy should have accomplished. I hope they all go and we pick defense all 7 picks. I could use a back up QB in there somewhere but ok if not.

GP
12-28-2010, 01:29 PM
Some of you are seriously "bummed' if Smith isn't fired, too?

Gee Whiz! This is a GREAT rumor!!!! If we do, indeed, get rid of the head coach...then it's fantastic news.

Rick Smith is not, I repeat NOT, going to hire some flunky as head coach. Both he and McNair, with input from others in the organization, will find a guy whom they think is a better gameday head coach. They're going to find a true "battlefield General" who will lead the whole team and manage the whole team (rather than focus on calling the plays on offense all game long).

This, IMO, is a fantastic and wonderful turn of events if it indeed turns out to be true. You gotta' slow down and not be so quick to judge it as being "bad' just because Rick Smith survives the cut. Why? Because you know damn well that Rick Smith will now be in the corss-hairs for a future firing if he doesn't make the right calls. Kubiak's firing will now place Rick Smith in any future hot seat. It will be his time to prove that it's Kubiak, not him, who screwed everything up.

I think, after all this time of observing the Texans for the Kubiak era, that Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak drifted apart. I remember the training camp video when someone asked about if we were getting Cedric Benson, and Kubiak replied (paraphrased) "I don't know. I won't know until I hear from Rick on it." It was something to the effect of Kubiak being out-of-the-loop on how or when players are finally 100% acquired. I mean, at the time this all went down with Benson...we had no running game and needed an extra back in the backfield. I have a hard time thinking Kubiak was passive and didn't care. I think he wanted Benson, but the contract dollars didn't work out (didn't the Bengals give him perhaps $1 or $2 million more than we offered, AND a promise of increased touches in the game...as compared to the touches he'd get here?). My point with this is that I think Kubiak and Smith probably started off well, but over time Rick Smith outmaneuvered Kubiak and figured out very quickly how he (Smith) could solidify his own longevity with the Texans by getting into McNair's hip pocket and staying there.

Rick Smith, just by my observation, is a lot smarter than Gary Kubiak. He knew how to outlast the head coach. He knew his future depended upon making sure he wasn't truly 100% associated with the success or failure of Gary Kubiak. Think about it: If Kubiak wins, Smith wins. If Kubiak loses, Smith has to find a way to not be associated with that situation...therefore, he knew all along that he had to just abandon Gary and more or less let Gary sink or swim on his own.

I think contract structuring is Rick Smith's biggest asset. I know there are others on McNair's staff who play a large role in figuring out the contract dollars and how it affects future moves. But Rick Smith is the leader of that group. He quickly identified what is important to McNair: Staying consistent, staying stable, low risk/high reward moves, no big Casserly-type contracts to aging vets who would then leave us with Dead Money problems.

Rick Smith played things very cool. Yet he could still be fired after the draft. It happened before. It can happen again.

Hot damn I hope this rumor is true!

Mr. White
12-28-2010, 01:31 PM
I don't see how this could keep Cowher from getting a job here.

We're all pretty sure that Smith acted as the yes-man for Kubiak. How do we know that he wouldn't operate in the same capacity under the next guy?

Unless he got promoted to "Strong GM" from "Yes-Man," then this will be Bob McNair making the call.

GP
12-28-2010, 01:34 PM
There isn't anything bad about this rumor.

If someone like Lance Z is sticking his neck out enough to place a rumor of the coaches being canned at the end of the season, then every person on here should consider it to be, at worst, a DECENT turn of events for us.

I'm not saying throw a ticker-tape parade or anything. I'm just saying that the "Cowher crowd" can't get what they want if Kubiak remains.

If he is fired, it means there's now a shot at it. And even if there isn't a shot at it...at least there won't be any of this :kubepalm: next year on our sidelines.

gary
12-28-2010, 01:37 PM
I'll take this news for the good if it is true.

GP
12-28-2010, 01:50 PM
I'll take this news for the good if it is true.

Absolutely. Best news all year, if it's true.

Gotta' start somewhere, and the head coach (and a few others, as well) is a great place to start.

Hell, I think Kubiak's incompetence has even rubbed off on the special teams. It was a historically "over-achieving" squad throughout the Capers era, and was functioning well until this season. Hard to know if this year's woes on special teams is also partially due to no more "wedge" formations allowed.

Well, and the possibility of Kubiak having Slaton returning kickoffs for whatever freaking reason Kubiak has concocted in his head. I mean, I seriously doubt that Joe Marciano is the guy who wants Steve Slaton out there returning kickoffs. Joe doesn't seem like the type who would (a) advocate it, and (b) stick with it for this long. Does he?

GP
12-28-2010, 01:54 PM
By the way, speaking of Marciano and Special Teams....

How BALLS has Neil Rackers been this year? I mean, jiminy Christmas what a difference it has been when we line up to kick a field goal these days.

And yet WHO on the Texans is ultimately responsible for (a) not axing Kris Brown during the season, and (b) even toying with the idea of having Kris compete for the kickers spot with Rackers? I mean, Jeez Louise if Kubiak didn't have the sack to fire KB at the END of the season...then I don't have anything else to say about it.

He gets it in his head, and he tries to make it work. He stayed with Chris Brown too long. He stayed with Kris Brown too long, and he has stayed with Steve Slaton too long as well. Kubiak is just a very weird, almost college-minded head coach. He gets it in his head how things are, and that's it.

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2010, 01:56 PM
RIck Smith drafts to many BUST BOOOOOOO this idea sucks :kubepalm::wadepalm:


Kubiak has had final say on the draft picks I believe.

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2010, 01:58 PM
If someone like Lance Z is sticking his neck out enough to place a rumor of the coaches being canned at the end of the season, then every person on here should consider it to be, at worst, a DECENT turn of events for us.


How is he sticking his neck out? He is just reporting rumours.

gary
12-28-2010, 01:58 PM
Absolutely. Best news all year, if it's true.

Gotta' start somewhere, and the head coach (and a few others, as well) is a great place to start.

Hell, I think Kubiak's incompetence has even rubbed off on the special teams. It was a historically "over-achieving" squad throughout the Capers era, and was functioning well until this season. Hard to know if this year's woes on special teams is also partially due to no more "wedge" formations allowed.

Well, and the possibility of Kubiak having Slaton returning kickoffs for whatever freaking reason Kubiak has concocted in his head. I mean, I seriously doubt that Joe Marciano is the guy who wants Steve Slaton out there returning kickoffs. Joe doesn't seem like the type who would (a) advocate it, and (b) stick with it for this long. Does he?All we can do is hope for somthing to happen on Monday. :kubepalm:

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 01:59 PM
From AJ's April 2009 column on a Smith pre-draft presser:

- Smith said the Texans "one glaring need" was taken care of with the acquisition of Antonio Smith in free agency. He cited the acquisition of Cato June as a plus, and named Eugene Wilson and Nick Ferguson as key re-signs. I'll buy some of that.
- He said that he's counting on Zac Diles to come back from his injury and be a productive player, and Xavier Adibi to take "the next step" this year. I hope he's right on both counts.
- Despite saying the team had no glaring needs, Smith said "we still need some help all over our football team." He's right. To quote John Granato, 'who doesn't?'
- Smith talked about the need for a complementary running back to go along with Steve Slaton and said Chris Brown "could fill that role." I'm selling on that one.
- Smith talked enough about moving Antonio Smith inside (situationally) and the 'tweener' crop in this year's draft to convince me that drafting an edge rusher is still a strong possibility.
- Smith said that defensive coordinator Frank Bush’s philosophy will not change how positions are valued in the draft.
- Smith indicated that he received the list of players who failed drug tests at the combine and that only 'credible' information such as that (in addition to their own scouting intelligence) is in play when decisions are made on Saturday.
- The Texans will draft a corner, but according to Smith it's "not to leverage the Dunta Robinson situation." Part of me agrees with the philosophy of drafting corners every year, but if the Texans end up with Malcolm Jenkins or Darius Butler, it will most definitely change the landscape of negotiations with our unhappy franchise camper.
- Smith indicated that he has "pretty good confidence" that Demeco, Owen, and Dunta will be productive players this year for the Texans.
- Smith wouldn't rule out taking a running back early if he has "special ability."
- Smith doesn't rule out taking a quarterback late in the draft but they are still interested in seeing how Alex Brink develops.

http://www.examiner.com/houston-texans-in-houston/gm-rick-smith-says-texans-have-no-glaring-needs

J_R
12-28-2010, 01:59 PM
"We'd like to welcome Mike Sherman as the new head coach of the Fightin' Texas Ag errr Houston Texans!"

...

"With the 6th pick in the 2011 NFL draft, the Houston Texans select Von Miller, Defensive End, Texas A&M"

http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Ehfotw9b7yY/s

http://216.157.146.180/images/smilies/tongue.gif

drs23
12-28-2010, 02:00 PM
Kubiak has had final say on the draft picks I believe.

IF this rumor pans out I guess we'll see who had the most input on draft day.

m5kwatts
12-28-2010, 02:04 PM
This has Brian Billick written all over it.

97roc
12-28-2010, 02:12 PM
I don't see how this could keep Cowher from getting a job here.

We're all pretty sure that Smith acted as the yes-man for Kubiak. How do we know that he wouldn't operate in the same capacity under the next guy?

Unless he got promoted to "Strong GM" from "Yes-Man," then this will be Bob McNair making the call.

I like your thinking Mr. White. Cowher wanting full control essentially is the same thing Kubiak has now, having his say on draft picks, players, coaching personnel, etc. A high profile coach would enable Smith to keep his job without increasing his responsibility. I can't see him taking anytype of gamble on a first time coach or coordinator at this point.

hookinreds
12-28-2010, 02:13 PM
Smith or Kubes (whomever is responsible for the picks) looks good when a Diles or Foster do well but let's not forget the Okoye's and Kareem Jacksons. We can argue all day about these two players but neither have done what a first round guy should have accomplished. I hope they all go and we pick defense all 7 picks. I could use a back up QB in there somewhere but ok if not.

So is this on the player that was picked (and who did the picking) or the lack of abilty by the coaching staff to get the max out of the player after the pick?

Hookem Horns
12-28-2010, 02:14 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/30/failroad.jpg

Malloy
12-28-2010, 02:15 PM
What the hell do I know, I'll let it play out and cheer for whatever idiots line up, on the field and beside it :)

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 02:19 PM
Your house stinks to high heaven. You look around for the source. In your kitchen you find 2 large turds on the floor that your great dane has left you as a present. You pick only one up, put in a plastic bag, seal it, and take it out to the trash. You come back into the house and voila................it smells like..................:kubepalm:

Dishman
12-28-2010, 02:21 PM
I have zero confidence in Smith's abilities. McNair is making a big mistake if this is what he is planning.

How many head coaches has he hired? :kubepalm:


This. Right. Here.

What has he done to retain his job?

MFG16
12-28-2010, 02:24 PM
Rumor or not this tells me Kubiak and the rest of the coaches are done, which is good news. I like Rick Smith so im cool with him staying, if he does. I believe every late draft pick or UFA is a smith pick, and his gotten some productivity out of those players. This is off topic but does anybody else think Kareem was a frank bush pick? I honestly believe we were targeting Matthews (thank you SD) and really didnt like anybody else left. After the 1st round only Bush was out at the podium "defending" the pick. Back to this, if Smith and McNair (dont think McNair is just going to let smith pick a HC on his own) cant get a proven HC in such a crop of HC's then itll be more of the same. Different person same s**t. :kubepalm: We better target Cowher with everything we got.

Dutchrudder
12-28-2010, 02:26 PM
So does this mean we will be hiring Colorado State's head coach?

drs23
12-28-2010, 02:29 PM
So does this mean we will be hiring Colorado State's head coach?

I hope not, but Stanford's would be a good choice IMO. But not a "Big Name" and a first timer, so he's out.

HTown2ATX
12-28-2010, 02:37 PM
Dude...eff this!!!!!!!! May as well keep Kubiak damnit!

Kubes and Smith are so buddy buddy I don't see him taking Cowher on as HC just to spite all the fans that have been calling for him to replace Kubes.

Bob......you get an EPIC FAIL on this one if this happens and I hope the S.E.C. does an investigation on just how the eff you became a billionaire with this kind of timid decision making.

CLEAN THE EFFING HOUSE OR DO NOTHING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!

:kubepalm:

BLOOD........PRESSURE......RISING.........

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 02:45 PM
I have mixed feelings. I used to really like Rick Smith up until this season. But this season has been such an epic failure that I dont' see how he can't take some of the blame.

When a team starts to crumble, it's up to the GM to step in. He hasn't.

Now, it's quite possible that he's simply been Kubiaks puppet and hasn't had the power to do anything. Maybe McNair has told him, "Ok, you want to be a GM? Act like one and FIX TIHS MESS. I'm giving you full authority."

If that's what McNair has done, that's a good thing. I think Rick Smith is smarter and more savvy than Kubiak, and will do anything it takes to save his job and turn this team around.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-28-2010, 02:46 PM
The Houston Lions led by Matt Mill...err...Rick Smith. :kubepalm:

machineo
12-28-2010, 02:54 PM
Rick Smith, just by my observation, is a lot smarter than Gary Kubiak. He knew how to outlast the head coach. He knew his future depended upon making sure he wasn't truly 100% associated with the success or failure of Gary Kubiak. Think about it: If Kubiak wins, Smith wins. If Kubiak loses, Smith has to find a way to not be associated with that situation...therefore, he knew all along that he had to just abandon Gary and more or less let Gary sink or swim on his own.


If his biggest accomplishment has been to dissociate himself from this sinking ship, that speaks nothing on his ability as a GM. That intelligence can sure home in on the draft duds though.

Honoring Earl 34
12-28-2010, 02:59 PM
http://www.today.colostate.edu/userfiles/images/steve-fairchild-ball-story.jpg

nero THE zero
12-28-2010, 03:01 PM
This has Brian Billick written all over it.

Why?

Dutchrudder
12-28-2010, 03:11 PM
Dude...eff this!!!!!!!! May as well keep Kubiak damnit!

Kubes and Smith are so buddy buddy I don't see him taking Cowher on as HC just to spite all the fans that have been calling for him to replace Kubes.

Bob......you get an EPIC FAIL on this one if this happens and I hope the S.E.C. does an investigation on just how the eff you became a billionaire with this kind of timid decision making.

CLEAN THE EFFING HOUSE OR DO NOTHING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!

:kubepalm:

BLOOD........PRESSURE......RISING.........

Dude, chill out. It's just a rumor, not news. We won't know how many dominoes are falling until sometime in January, possibly later. This is progress though if Kubiak is expected to be fired/resign. A few weeks ago, many thought Kubiak would stay, so maybe rumors of Smith will be coming in a week or two.

HTown2ATX
12-28-2010, 03:19 PM
Dude, chill out. It's just a rumor, not news. We won't know how many dominoes are falling until sometime in January, possibly later. This is progress though if Kubiak is expected to be fired/resign. A few weeks ago, many thought Kubiak would stay, so maybe rumors of Smith will be coming in a week or two.

That's why I said "If this happens".

Though I did get a little too pissed maybe and I realize it is a rumor....but still....it's something some of us fear would be plausible for Bob to do....so it doesn't seem like "just a rumor" you know.

It sounds like the classic bumbling we've come to love.

Hervoyel
12-28-2010, 03:27 PM
I am concerned about the prospect of Rick Smith staying and getting to pick the next coach. I believe that in this kind of situation you have two kinds of GM's and only two. One tries his hardest to get the best man for the job. The other chooses someone who will not be a threat to his own position and moves to solidify his own power base within the organization.

I don't have even a little doubt that Smith will fall into the latter category.

(Assuming this rumor is true) We're letting go of our HC who's never done anything, keeping our GM who's never done anything, and some of you guys are worried we might hire a guy who actually has done something and give him too much power.

:ok:

PapaL
12-28-2010, 03:29 PM
I'm fine w this. Progress is progress...

rmartin65
12-28-2010, 03:31 PM
Not thrilled, but if we had to keep one of the two, it would be Smith for sure. He does not do much in FA, but he does decent in the draft. Not great, but decent. I would like to see a consultant brought in to help with the new HC hiring though...

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 03:32 PM
Not thrilled, but if we had to keep one of the two, it would be Smith for sure. He does not do much in FA, but he does decent in the draft. Not great, but decent. I would like to see a consultant brought in to help with the new HC hiring though...


Why do people keep saying this?

Smith's drafts have been below average, and his FAs have been above average.

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 03:32 PM
I am concerned about the prospect of Rick Smith staying and getting to pick the next coach. I believe that in this kind of situation you have two kinds of GM's and only two. One tries his hardest to get the best man for the job. The other chooses someone who will not be a threat to his own position and moves to solidify his own power base within the organization.

I don't have even a little doubt that Smith will fall into the latter category.

(Assuming this rumor is true) We're letting go of our HC who's never done anything, keeping our GM who's never done anything, and some of you guys are worried we might hire a guy who actually has done something and give him too much power.

:ok:

Well, here's the thing: If this rumor is true, I'm betting that McNair has given Smith an ultimatium: Fix this mess, or you're next. Smith is considered a rising star in the NFL, and he's a smart guy. No way in heck he does the status quo thing here. He will likely pull no punches in getting this team in gear.

If Smith is smart, he'll become the former GM on your list, instead of the latter.

Stemp
12-28-2010, 03:33 PM
Watch them bring back Kyle Shannahan as HC. Just to completely throw us off.

rmartin65
12-28-2010, 03:39 PM
Why do people keep saying this?

Smith's drafts have been below average, and his FAs have been above average.

Because its true. His drafts have been decent. Not good or great like some people think, but decent. He does not do much in FA, as in not a lot of moves going on.

Again, I am not thrilled, but between Kubiak and Smith, I am glad they kept Smith.

Ghostform
12-28-2010, 03:40 PM
Bob prolly has a horse named after Rick if the rumor is true.

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 03:48 PM
Because its true. His drafts have been decent. Not good or great like some people think, but decent. He does not do much in FA, as in not a lot of moves going on.

Again, I am not thrilled, but between Kubiak and Smith, I am glad they kept Smith.

"Decent" as in "mediocre at best".

2007
1 10 (10) Amobi Okoye DT Louisville
3 9 (73) Jacoby Jones WR Lane
4 24 (123) Fred Bennett CB South Carolina
5 7 (144) Brandon Harrison S Stanford
5 26 (163) Brandon Frye G Virginia Tech
6 9 (183) Kasey Studdard G Texas
7 8 (218) Zach Diles LB Kansas State University

2008
1 26 (26) Duane Brown T Virginia Tech
3 16 (79) Antwaun Molden CB Eastern Kentucky
3 26 (89) Steve Slaton RB West Virginia
4 19 (118) Xavier Adibi OLB Virginia Tech
5 16 (151) Frank Okam DT Texas
6 7 (173) Dominique Barber S Minnesota
7 16 (223) Alex Brink QB Washington State


2009
1 15 (15) Brian Cushing OLB USC
2 14 (46) Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati
3 13 (77) Antoine Caldwell C Alabama
4 12 (112) Glover Quin CB New Mexico
4 22 (122) Anthony Hill TE North Carolina State
5 16 (152) James Casey TE Rice
6 15 (188) Brice McCain CB Utah
7 14 (223) Troy Nolan S Arizona State

2010
1 20 (20) Kareem Jackson CB Alabama
2 26 (58) Ben Tate RB Auburn
3 18 (81) Earl Mitchell DT Arizona
4 4 (102) Darryl Sharpton ILB Miami-Fl
4 20 (118) Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin
5 13 (144) Sherrick McManis CB Northwestern
6 18 (187) Shelley Smith G Colorado State
6 28 (197) Trindon Holliday WR LSU
7 20 (227) Dorin Dickerson TE Pittsburgh

The class of 2009 and 2010 are too soon to really judge, but it's not looking good. The 2009 draft looks like his best, and it's merely "ok".

You cannot tell me with a straight face that Smith has drafted even "decently" in his time here.

His midyear FA pickups have been his ONE saving grace.

False Start
12-28-2010, 03:52 PM
If this is true, at least its a start. I'm not thrilled with it, but it may turn out that both of them are goners this being just a rumor and all. I guess we'll see.

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 03:53 PM
Why do people keep saying this?

Smith's drafts have been below average, and his FAs have been above average.
Average, below average... it's all relative. Average would be about 16th in the league, right? Find me 17 teams that have drafted better than the Texans during the 2007-2010 timespan.

If I were grading every teams' drafts during this period.... I'd say at least 75% of the teams were "below average" but that doesn't really make sense. lol

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 03:55 PM
If this indeed occurs, it won't be long until you will be hearing Bob singing from his well-padded room:

I知 sinking I知 sinking
I致e spotted a leak,
My boat is submerging
My future is bleak.
I知 losing momentum
And starting to slug,
I致e spotted more holes
Then I値l possibly plug.

I知 sinking I知 sinking,
I知 simply aghast,
I知 taking on water
And taking it fast.
Although I致e used buckets
A mop, and a sponge,
I fear that I知 facing
A permanent plunge.

I知 sinking I知 sinking
I知 barely afloat,
For water has filled
My unfortunate boat.
It burst through the bottom
And flooded the deck,
I知 standing in water
That痴 up to my neck.

I知 sinking I知 sinking
I知 losing my grip,
I知 sensing it痴 time
To abandon the ship.
I知 quickly concluding
The oceans and seas,
Don稚 mix with a mouse
In a boat of Swiss cheese.

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 03:57 PM
Find me 17 teams that have drafted better than the Texans during the 2007-2010 timespan.



I'm pretty sure if I had the time, I could.

Ole Miss Texan
12-28-2010, 03:58 PM
I'm pretty sure if I had the time, I could.

I'll make it easy on you: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=2120&type=team

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 04:02 PM
If he hires a proven HC. The usual suspects

Whoever the HC is Cowher for instance gets to hire the scouts he wants. Coaching staff he wants etc...

And the only role Smith plays is negociating contracts/setting up the teams travel arraingments etc... I'm good with this move.

I want Smith nowhere near the war room on draft day. He has proven to be a poor talent evaluator.

rmartin65
12-28-2010, 04:02 PM
"Decent" as in "mediocre at best".

2007
1 10 (10) Amobi Okoye DT Louisville
3 9 (73) Jacoby Jones WR Lane
4 24 (123) Fred Bennett CB South Carolina
5 7 (144) Brandon Harrison S Stanford
5 26 (163) Brandon Frye G Virginia Tech
6 9 (183) Kasey Studdard G Texas
7 8 (218) Zach Diles LB Kansas State University

2008
1 26 (26) Duane Brown T Virginia Tech
3 16 (79) Antwaun Molden CB Eastern Kentucky
3 26 (89) Steve Slaton RB West Virginia
4 19 (118) Xavier Adibi OLB Virginia Tech
5 16 (151) Frank Okam DT Texas
6 7 (173) Dominique Barber S Minnesota
7 16 (223) Alex Brink QB Washington State


2009
1 15 (15) Brian Cushing OLB USC
2 14 (46) Connor Barwin OLB Cincinnati
3 13 (77) Antoine Caldwell C Alabama
4 12 (112) Glover Quin CB New Mexico
4 22 (122) Anthony Hill TE North Carolina State
5 16 (152) James Casey TE Rice
6 15 (188) Brice McCain CB Utah
7 14 (223) Troy Nolan S Arizona State

2010
1 20 (20) Kareem Jackson CB Alabama
2 26 (58) Ben Tate RB Auburn
3 18 (81) Earl Mitchell DT Arizona
4 4 (102) Darryl Sharpton ILB Miami-Fl
4 20 (118) Garrett Graham TE Wisconsin
5 13 (144) Sherrick McManis CB Northwestern
6 18 (187) Shelley Smith G Colorado State
6 28 (197) Trindon Holliday WR LSU
7 20 (227) Dorin Dickerson TE Pittsburgh

The class of 2009 and 2010 are too soon to really judge, but it's not looking good. The 2009 draft looks like his best, and it's merely "ok".

You cannot tell me with a straight face that Smith has drafted even "decently" in his time here.

His midyear FA pickups have been his ONE saving grace.

Yes, I am telling you with a straight face that Smith has drafted decently.

Look at who he drafted. Not everyone in the draft is a star. Heck, once you get past the 2nd round, if a player sticks for a couple of years as a backup its a decent pick.

Once more, he is not setting the world on fire, and I would prefer that he gets the axe too. But if the Texans had to keep 1 between Kubiak and Smith, I am glad they chose Smith.

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 04:12 PM
I'll make it easy on you: http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=2120&type=team


I already found that link, but it would still take forever.

Giving it a cursory glance, however, the only teams which I can tell are definitely *worse* than the Texans at drafting are the Cardinals, Browns, Panthers, Seahawks, Bills and Lions.

Mighty foes we have bested, truly. :bravo:

drs23
12-28-2010, 04:38 PM
If this is true, at least its a start. I'm not thrilled with it, but it may turn out that both of them are goners this being just a rumor and all. I guess we'll see.

OR...neither one of them...:kitten:

Just sayin'.

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 04:53 PM
Check my post history: I been telling you guys for more than a year now that McNair LIKES Rick Smith.

I have just always gotten that vibe. Rick Smith, IMO, is several things:

1. A minority. Hate me all you want, it DOES look good in this day and age if your organization has minorities at very high positions. This isn't "THE" reason, so don't go blasting me as a racist. It's more of a perk, in terms of positioning your organization as not being "A Good 'Ole Boys Club."

2. Contract structuring. Whether you like it or not, he's not giving goofy money to players such as Casserly did. We're out of the Dead Money era, and we're not going back there. Plus, look at how he stone-walled Daniels and Ryans during the off-season recently. They were chirping about wanting new contracts, then one day the chirping stopped.

3. He's young, AND he was brought in AFTER Kubiak. Which means he didn't hire Kubiak, he just had a prior connection with Kubiak and it was theorized they'd work well together.

In the end, it has to be understood that Gary Kubiak had a shorter shelf life than Rick Smith. Rick hasn't done anything, IMO, that outpaces the incompetence of Gary Kubiak and his coaches. IMO, McNair sees a clear distinction between GM and HC.

Which might give you all a heads-up about what type of head coach McNair and Smith will be looking at hiring: A head coach who will COACH and coach very well. Which means, IMO, that Cowher is a verrrrrry long shot at landing the Texans gig. The exception will be IF Cowher doesn't want full control.

Agreed

But in Smith's case shouldn't you be good at your job. If you want to get full control over the organization. He's made McNair alot of $$$$. But cant draft worth a crap.

Looks like 5 more yrs of the same crap. What qualifications does Smith have to make these kinds of decisions. If he hires HC/Scouting department like he drafts this organization is eternally screwed.

Dont even think about retaining Smith. I know the minority factor plays into this as well. But building a winner is job #1 and Smith hasn't proven in 4 yrs that he's the man for the job.

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 04:56 PM
I already found that link, but it would still take forever.

Giving it a cursory glance, however, the only teams which I can tell are definitely *worse* than the Texans at drafting are the Cardinals, Browns, Panthers, Seahawks, Bills and Lions.

Mighty foes we have bested, truly. :bravo:

Recently the Browns and Lions have been better.

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2010, 05:04 PM
Recently the Browns and Lions have been better.

Drafting much higher though makes picks safer (in theory).

DonnyMost
12-28-2010, 05:06 PM
Recently the Browns and Lions have been better.

Recently as in 09-10... but 07-08, no.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 05:20 PM
I have mixed feelings. I used to really like Rick Smith up until this season. But this season has been such an epic failure that I dont' see how he can't take some of the blame.

When a team starts to crumble, it's up to the GM to step in. He hasn't.

Now, it's quite possible that he's simply been Kubiaks puppet and hasn't had the power to do anything. Maybe McNair has told him, "Ok, you want to be a GM? Act like one and FIX TIHS MESS. I'm giving you full authority."

If that's what McNair has done, that's a good thing. I think Rick Smith is smarter and more savvy than Kubiak, and will do anything it takes to save his job and turn this team around.

This right here. I have faith in Rick Smith. He was definitely Kubiak's puppet during Kubiak's time here.

ATXtexanfan
12-28-2010, 05:41 PM
blow the whole thing up, send rick smith packing as well.

Playoffs
12-28-2010, 06:22 PM
Coaches go, Rick Smith stays
Then we'll have no coaching depth to match the no defensive depth ... perfect!

We need to have no Rick Smith depth.

GP
12-28-2010, 06:28 PM
How is he sticking his neck out? He is just reporting rumours.

When you pass along a rumor, you sign off on it.

Lance Z has attached his name to the rumor. You don't think he sat there and deliberated with himself if he was going to post it or not? His credibility is on the line. For what it's worth, I understand that he has some solid connections and is well-respected by many. Still, it's a big deal.

It's one thing to pass on a rumor about minor things. Quite another when it involves major news, such as the hiring or firing of a coach.

So Lance Z either has verrrry solid intel on it, or he's throwing us a bone and gambling on risky information. Heck, what if it's from a very trustworthy source yet the source has it wrong?

I remember Hulk75 who posted here (David Carr's brother) sent me a PM the week of the draft, telling me that people within the Texans organization had told David that we were 100% "for sure" going to draft Reggie Bush. LOL. I PM'd Hulk75 back, after news broke of us signing Mario Williams early, and he was baffled by it all. "But they told my brother we were drafting Reggie," was his response. See? People within the Texans organization bold-faced lied to David...as a smoke-screen diversion. They didn't even trust David Carr to keep it a secret. In fact, IMO, they intentionally misled Carr because it could only help to add to the confusion and thereby keep the real intentions a secret for unveiling at their own discretion.

We could all be being setup for all we know.

J_R
12-28-2010, 06:33 PM
LanceZierlein There are people around the league who believe "the rats are jumping ship" in Houston in regards to people distancing themselves from Kubiak

LanceZierlein I have spoken with 2 people close to the matter who said Kubiak handled off selections in draft while Rick Smith had "his say-so" w/ defense
LanceZierlein Said one source "ultimately, the team would have been better off if Casserly had stayed. He knows his way around the league more than Rick"
LanceZierlein Make no mistake, Gary Kubiak buried himself with his own personnel decisions non-player related. Does Rick Smith have Gary's back? #drama

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 06:36 PM
Some of you are seriously "bummed' if Smith isn't fired, too?

Gee Whiz! This is a GREAT rumor!!!! If we do, indeed, get rid of the head coach...then it's fantastic news.

I think, after all this time of observing the Texans for the Kubiak era, that Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak drifted apart. I remember the training camp video when someone asked about if we were getting Cedric Benson, and Kubiak replied (paraphrased) "I don't know. I won't know until I hear from Rick on it." It was something to the effect of Kubiak being out-of-the-loop on how or when players are finally 100% acquired. I mean, at the time this all went down with Benson...we had no running game and needed an extra back in the backfield. I have a hard time thinking Kubiak was passive and didn't care. I think he wanted Benson, but the contract dollars didn't work out (didn't the Bengals give him perhaps $1 or $2 million more than we offered, AND a promise of increased touches in the game...as compared to the touches he'd get here?). My point with this is that I think Kubiak and Smith probably started off well, but over time Rick Smith outmaneuvered Kubiak and figured out very quickly how he (Smith) could solidify his own longevity with the Texans by getting into McNair's hip pocket and staying there.



It sounds like you're saying 2009's lack of a running game was because Rick Smith didn't get us a running back Kubiak wanted/needed.

I don't know how this is an argument for keeping Rick Smith, & ditching Kubiak.

By the way, speaking of Marciano and Special Teams....

How BALLS has Neil Rackers been this year? I mean, jiminy Christmas what a difference it has been when we line up to kick a field goal these days.

And yet WHO on the Texans is ultimately responsible for (a) not axing Kris Brown during the season, and (b) even toying with the idea of having Kris compete for the kickers spot with Rackers? I mean, Jeez Louise if Kubiak didn't have the sack to fire KB at the END of the season...then I don't have anything else to say about it.

He gets it in his head, and he tries to make it work. He stayed with Chris Brown too long. He stayed with Kris Brown too long, and he has stayed with Steve Slaton too long as well. Kubiak is just a very weird, almost college-minded head coach. He gets it in his head how things are, and that's it.

Again, you make it sound as if Kubiak fell on the sword, taking responsibility for Smith's bad decisions.

Can you imagine Kubiak "firing" Kris Brown, & Smith saying..... "I'm not getting you a kicker..... you had one, you didn't make it work."

Same thing with Chris Brown... if you're saying Kubiak had been waking up every morning waiting for Rick Smith to send him a talented runner....

You're saying Rick Smith is not Kubiak's puppet. The decision or inability to sign Larry Johnson before MNF last year (which I think very well cost us the play-offs) is squarely on Smith's shoulders.

But you're blaming Kubiak for sticking with Brown.

TexanAggie89
12-28-2010, 06:38 PM
There is only ONE coach that i want that is not Cowher(a proven winner) and that is Jim Harbaugh. IF its him, i will be fine if its not Cowher. I will be severely dissapointed if its not either of these two.

Mr. White
12-28-2010, 06:38 PM
When you pass along a rumor, you sign off on it.

Lance Z has attached his name to the rumor. You don't think he sat there and deliberated with himself if he was going to post it or not?

It's one thing to pass on a rumor about minor things. Quite another when it involves major news, such as the hiring or firing of a coach.

So Lance Z either has verrrry solid intel on it, or he's throwing us a bone and gambling on risky information. Heck, what if it's from a very trustworthy source yet the source has it wrong?


Zierlein is pretty solid when this kind of stuff comes out.

He broke the story nationally when Haynesworth signed with the Redskins. Pretty sure that came from the "agent grapevine" too.

Word has it that the source for all the Cowher rumors is probably Cowher's agent as well.

Double Barrel
12-28-2010, 06:41 PM
When you pass along a rumor, you sign off on it.

Lance Z has attached his name to the rumor. You don't think he sat there and deliberated with himself if he was going to post it or not? His credibility is on the line. For what it's worth, I understand that he has some solid connections and is well-respected by many. Still, it's a big deal.

It's one thing to pass on a rumor about minor things. Quite another when it involves major news, such as the hiring or firing of a coach.

So Lance Z either has verrrry solid intel on it, or he's throwing us a bone and gambling on risky information. Heck, what if it's from a very trustworthy source yet the source has it wrong?

I remember Hulk75 who posted here (David Carr's brother) sent me a PM the week of the draft, telling me that people within the Texans organization had told David that we were 100% "for sure" going to draft Reggie Bush. LOL. I PM'd Hulk75 back, after news broke of us signing Mario Williams early, and he was baffled by it all. "But they told my brother we were drafting Reggie," was his response. See? People within the Texans organization bold-faced lied to David...as a smoke-screen diversion. They didn't even trust David Carr to keep it a secret. In fact, IMO, they intentionally misled Carr because it could only help to add to the confusion and thereby keep the real intentions a secret for unveiling at their own discretion.

We could all be being setup for all we know.

I think they intended to sign Bush, but when he indicated that he was going to holdout, Bob pulled the trigger on Mario who was willing to sign the night before the draft.

See, the key aspect is the potential for a no. 1 pick holding out, which in Bob's eyes, is bad for marketing the team.

The Saints didn't care about all of that image crap and just wanted to win, and the rest is history.

NitroGSXR
12-28-2010, 06:45 PM
When you pass along a rumor, you sign off on it.

Lance Z has attached his name to the rumor. You don't think he sat there and deliberated with himself if he was going to post it or not? His credibility is on the line. For what it's worth, I understand that he has some solid connections and is well-respected by many. Still, it's a big deal.

It's one thing to pass on a rumor about minor things. Quite another when it involves major news, such as the hiring or firing of a coach.

So Lance Z either has verrrry solid intel on it, or he's throwing us a bone and gambling on risky information. Heck, what if it's from a very trustworthy source yet the source has it wrong?

I remember Hulk75 who posted here (David Carr's brother) sent me a PM the week of the draft, telling me that people within the Texans organization had told David that we were 100% "for sure" going to draft Reggie Bush. LOL. I PM'd Hulk75 back, after news broke of us signing Mario Williams early, and he was baffled by it all. "But they told my brother we were drafting Reggie," was his response. See? People within the Texans organization bold-faced lied to David...as a smoke-screen diversion. They didn't even trust David Carr to keep it a secret. In fact, IMO, they intentionally misled Carr because it could only help to add to the confusion and thereby keep the real intentions a secret for unveiling at their own discretion.

We could all be being setup for all we know.

It's a little hard for me to take LZ's credibility seriously sometimes albeit he is one of my "must-reads." I am still lol'ing over the whole food show fiasco. He really seems to battle hard with people over stupid things.

Pantherstang84
12-28-2010, 06:45 PM
Come get me when all of this stuff is over and done with.

leebigeztx
12-28-2010, 07:27 PM
The biggest issue i have with kubiak is coaching and the coaching staff. I don't see players getting better as the season goes on. Thats one of the most underrated things about coaching. Look at New England,the steelers and some of the other well run organizations where players got better through hands on coaching. I would actually like a smith,herne,fox combo. I know they have a terrible record this year, but they defense played well and they played hard. Not to mention, they did a very good job drafting and developing players. Player development is really lacking with this team.

J_R
12-28-2010, 07:55 PM
Cant confirm or deny this as I wasnt listening so just tifwiw if that but apparently Barry Warner just said on radio that Rick Smith will be retained and Texans are eyeing Raiders OC Hue Jackson, Air Force and former Texans OC Troy Calhoun and Texas A&M coach Mike Sherman

RTP2110
12-28-2010, 07:56 PM
http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=22164

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=22163

Apparently 610 is confirming this thread.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 07:57 PM
Cant confirm or deny this as I wasnt listening so just tifwiw if that but apparently Barry Warner just said on radio that Rick Smith will be retained and Texans are eyeing Raiders OC Hue Jackson, Air Force and former Texans OC Troy Calhoun and Texas A&M coach Mike Sherman

Must be a joke. Seriously.

JB
12-28-2010, 08:01 PM
Cant confirm or deny this as I wasnt listening so just tifwiw if that but apparently Barry Warner just said on radio that Rick Smith will be retained and Texans are eyeing Raiders OC Hue Jackson, Air Force and former Texans OC Troy Calhoun and Texas A&M coach Mike Sherman

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=22164

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=22163

Apparently 610 is confirming this thread.


Barry Warner? Really?

Does this guy have any credibility anywhere? I would not put it past him to be pulling this out of *** just to get his name in the news.

Kinda like McLame stating that there would be no scenario in which the Texans would draft Cushing.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 08:02 PM
Cant confirm or deny this as I wasnt listening so just tifwiw if that but apparently Barry Warner just said on radio that Rick Smith will be retained and Texans are eyeing Raiders OC Hue Jackson, Air Force and former Texans OC Troy Calhoun and Texas A&M coach Mike Sherman

any of those hires would seriously question my fandom.... did they mention bringing back David Carr aswell??

id love to see how many ppl would rather those over kubiak? im guessing none

Koolaid Time
12-28-2010, 08:04 PM
any of those hires would seriously question my fandom.... did they mention bringing back David Carr aswell??

id love to see how many ppl would rather those over kubiak? im guessing none

This is like Bud Adams hiring Bill Petersen back in 72.

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 08:06 PM
Bob McNair must have found Bud Adam's "blue print to piss off the fan base" in the Astrodome's lost and found.

Mr. White
12-28-2010, 08:07 PM
Cant confirm or deny this as I wasnt listening so just tifwiw if that but apparently Barry Warner just said on radio that Rick Smith will be retained and Texans are eyeing Raiders OC Hue Jackson, Air Force and former Texans OC Troy Calhoun and Texas A&M coach Mike Sherman

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=22164

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=22163

Apparently 610 is confirming this thread.

I'm talking myself into thinking these guys might work. That's when you know it's been a bad season. :gun:

Surreal McCoy
12-28-2010, 08:07 PM
This is like Bud Adams hiring Bill Petersen back in 72.


Was thinking the exact same thing! And, if this is true (which I seriously believe Warner knows absolutely sweet f ** k all) we'll end up with similar results.

J_R
12-28-2010, 08:12 PM
Well bad news perhaps. Lance Z just on. He too heard about the Texans and Calhoun/Jackson.

Paraphrasing here:

I had gotten something because I was told Hue Jackson and Troy Calhoun. When I was told that - it seemed so stupid. I thought to myself, I wont go with this on Twitter. This is outrageous. Not possible. Barry has it today. Are we talking to similar people? I had this about 1:30 and thought it was irresponsible. I cant imagine those 2 guys at the top of ANY coaching list. In that regard, barry might be hearing same stuff from same people I have.

Jackson would be a Rick Smith hire, not McNair. Jackson not ready to lead a team for has missed playoffs for 9 years now.

Disgusting of Rick Smith to sell Kubiak down the river. This was the guy who brought you in.

houstonhurricane
12-28-2010, 08:13 PM
Was thinking the exact same thing! And, if this is true (which I seriously believe Warner knows absolutely sweet f ** k all) we'll end up with similar results.

I refuse to let my frustrations continue to grow with every crazy rumor being thrown out there...well, at least that is what I keep telling myself.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 08:18 PM
I refuse to let my frustrations continue to grow with every crazy rumor being thrown out there...well, at least that is what I keep telling myself.

good thinking. im going to try and take that route also since this is so implausible it has to be a wind-up.

Wolf
12-28-2010, 08:24 PM
Well bad news perhaps. Lance Z just on. He too heard about the Texans and Calhoun/Jackson.

Paraphrasing here:

I had gotten something because I was told Hue Jackson and Troy Calhoun. When I was told that - it seemed so stupid. I thought to myself, I wont go with this on Twitter. This is outrageous. Not possible. Barry has it today. Are we talking to similar people? I had this about 1:30 and thought it was irresponsible. I cant imagine those 2 guys at the top of ANY coaching list. In that regard, barry might be hearing same stuff from same people I have.

Jackson would be a Rick Smith hire, not McNair. Jackson not ready to lead a team for has missed playoffs for 9 years now.



yep, I call BS on that rumor.. no way they go with a young guy again with no experience. if they do.. it is crazy

what I keep thinking about is when the Texans started out, i read somewhere that the Texans were going to pay their scouts more money than other teams because scouting is so important (which it is), however with coaches, they skimp on the talented ones and go with projects (it seems)

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 08:26 PM
The "uncommon outpouring of support" from owners at the NFL Meetings that McNair perceived was more like a pat on the head. Leo Durocher said it best.

Smith must go.

Pantherstang84
12-28-2010, 08:52 PM
Well bad news perhaps. Lance Z just on. He too heard about the Texans and Calhoun/Jackson.

Paraphrasing here:

I had gotten something because I was told Hue Jackson and Troy Calhoun. When I was told that - it seemed so stupid. I thought to myself, I wont go with this on Twitter. This is outrageous. Not possible. Barry has it today. Are we talking to similar people? I had this about 1:30 and thought it was irresponsible. I cant imagine those 2 guys at the top of ANY coaching list. In that regard, barry might be hearing same stuff from same people I have.

Jackson would be a Rick Smith hire, not McNair. Jackson not ready to lead a team for has missed playoffs for 9 years now.

Disgusting of Rick Smith to sell Kubiak down the river. This was the guy who brought you in.

If there is any truth to this rumor at all, then I would rather keep Kubiak with a proven DC (Wade). After the last 9 years, I cannot believe this organization is actually floating this idea out there. I mean really? This is the best they can come up with? I can scratch this off of my to do list:

1. Shop for season tickets after new coach is hired.

out here

Brando
12-28-2010, 08:58 PM
If it's true about Calhoun/Jackson/Sherman, I would rather just keep Kubiak and hire Phillips! I hope this is a joke or a bunch of smoke!:strangle:

Pantherstang84
12-28-2010, 08:59 PM
If it's true about Calhoun/Jackson/Sherman, I would rather just keep Kubiak and hire Phillips! I hope this is a joke or a bunch of smoke!:strangle:

Here Here!

Mike Kerns
12-28-2010, 09:03 PM
If there is any truth to this rumor at all, then I would rather keep Kubiak with a proven DC (Wade). After the last 9 years, I cannot believe this organization is actually floating this idea out there. I mean really? This is the best they can come up with? I can scratch this off of my to do list:

1. Shop for season tickets after new coach is hired.



Pretty much where I am at currently.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 09:09 PM
c'mon guys with the pessimism. hue jackson co-ordinated the 2007 falcons offence to 29th in the league & a 4-12 season

http://images.free-extras.com/pics/f/family_guy_puking-1121.gif

houstonhurricane
12-28-2010, 09:09 PM
I wonder if they are actually stupid enough to float these horrifying names out there so if they decide to keep Kubes folks would actually feel relieved. God, I hope our franchise hasn't fallen that far...yet.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 09:10 PM
I wonder if they are actually stupid enough to float these horrifying names out there so if they decide to keep Kubes folks would actually feel relieved. God, I hope our franchise hasn't fallen that far...yet.

its working!

kubiak & wade seem like a dreamteam compared to whats been mentioned

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 09:19 PM
Your house stinks to high heaven. You look around for the source. In your kitchen you find 2 large turds on the floor that your great dane has left you as a present. You pick only one up, put in a plastic bag, seal it, and take it out to the trash. You come back into the house and voila................it smells like..................:kubepalm:

Man it smells like roses.

Lucky
12-28-2010, 09:25 PM
I had gotten something because I was told Hue Jackson and Troy Calhoun. When I was told that - it seemed so stupid.
It would be stupid to hire them. But, Jackson would fulfill the Rooney Rule requirement. Calhoun? McNair might have liked him enough from his 2006 stint to give him an interview.

Will one of these guys be the Texans head coach in 2011? Get freakin' real. Bob McNair knows he can't market these guys. Now would these guys be the best Rick Smith could bring in on his own? Possibly. No decent head coach candidate will take a job working for Rick Smith.

Smith must go. A child can see that.

Dishman
12-28-2010, 09:26 PM
any of those hires would seriously question my fandom.... did they mention bringing back David Carr aswell??

id love to see how many ppl would rather those over kubiak? im guessing none

If that's really the HC candidate list that Rick Smith came up with I think that's all the evidence needed to say Smith needs to be gone, as well.

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 09:28 PM
Relax, people. Bringing in candidates for interviews and hiring one of them are two different things.

Hue what's-his-name?, Mike Sherman, and Troy who-is-that? will NOT be coaching this team in the future.

ThaShark316
12-28-2010, 09:33 PM
The leak.

All I'm going to say.

Watch.

EDIT: what I mean is: I think this was a leak for 610 to get folks to listen to em.

Mike Kerns
12-28-2010, 09:37 PM
The leak.

All I'm going to say.

Watch.

EDIT: what I mean is: I think this was a leak for 610 to get folks to listen to em.

I'd agree if LZ hadn't said he'd heard the same names.

Second Honeymoon
12-28-2010, 09:38 PM
I think we are all screwed either way, if these rumors are true.
Please let them not be true.
I can think of 25 people more qualified than those guys, right off the top of my head.

It's just mindboggingly stupid sometimes, but we do need to let things play out because these are just rumors. I think the franchise would be universally criticized for going after another cheap and unproven NFL Head Coach. Say it ain't so, Bob.

The one thing that all this rumor-mongering may be doing is providing a poke at McNair and make him come out and make a statement sooner rather than later. Maybe the media is just trying to smoke McNair out and make him come out and make a statement to quell the rumors. The silence is quite telling, but its just been half a news cycle. You would think McNair would come out before the game and give Kubiak a vote of confidence, if he truly has Kubiak's back. Ah, speculation. One thing isn't speculation though. KUBIAK MUST GO.

Smart money has McNair making his statement at end of the season and going whatever way he wants. Based on a decade long history of bad moves, I am sorry to say that I am not optimistic about what is going to come out of his mouth. "Let me be the first to introduce Scott Linehan as your next Houston Texans Head Football Coach. Welcome to Houston, Scott. It's Football Time In Houston, Scott. Houston, We Have Another Coach. Liftoff in T-minus 2011." *jets fly overhead*

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail. Fire Kubiak and/or Smith. Bring in a proven HC like Cowher or Gruden and move on. Keep Matt, give him a chance with a real Head Coach and for pete's sake, help Andre get to the playoffs. I think he is a shoo-in HOF but if he doesn't even get a sniff of the playoffs, will he get the love needed? I wonder how many modern day NFL HOF players are in the NFL Hall Of Fame that never made the playoffs. Dierdorf maybe? Those Cardinal teams were bad and were in the brutal NFC East.

Hopefully this rollercoaster of a rumor mill will at least get us some closure from Uncle B.

I think LZ said it best when he said that McNair is turning into Football Uncle Drayton.

Pretty much, and its pretty sad if you ask me.

eriadoc
12-28-2010, 09:46 PM
If he keeps Rick Smith (please don't), then he really needs to step up and go get Cowher, Gruden, or a similarly experienced head coach. If he decides to keep Kubiak (please don't), then he needs to go get an experienced GM. At least one of the two needs to have some experience with success at the position.

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 09:48 PM
Recently as in 09-10... but 07-08, no.

Wrong the Lions drafted Calvin Johnson in 08.

The Texans meanwhile only drafted 1 player that's an average NFL starter during that time. D.Brown (go back and check out those 2 yrs draft for the Texans. It's disgusting)

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 09:53 PM
since this is turning into the rumour thread:

via peter kings twitter

SI_PeterKing RT @Jonathan_Reyes: Hearing anything on Houston and potential candidates? ... Was told today: "Don't fire Kubiak yet. You might be wrong.''

Pantherstang84
12-28-2010, 09:54 PM
since this is turning into the rumour thread:

via peter kings twitter

I guess I don't quite understand what means. Who might be wrong?

J_R
12-28-2010, 10:00 PM
I asked Peter that = P

Who might be wrong: Those who think Kubiak is gone or is going to be fired(I assume?)

gary
12-28-2010, 10:00 PM
I guess I don't quite understand what means. Who might be wrong?He telling him not to rule out a return for Gary just yet.

Maddict5
12-28-2010, 10:10 PM
I guess I don't quite understand what means. Who might be wrong?

He telling him not to rule out a return for Gary just yet.

yup

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 10:14 PM
If this comes to be, expect Bob to get up in front of the Texans faithful with a perfectly understable explanation..........
http://s2.hubimg.com/u/404825_f260.jpg "THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!!"

Speedy
12-28-2010, 10:15 PM
For me, if anyone needs to go, other than Frank Bush, it's Rick Smith.

Okoye
Bennett
Harrison
Diles
Molden
Adibi
Okam
Barber
Cushing
Barwin
Quin
McCain
Nolan
Jackson
Mitchell
Sharpton
McManis

Those are just the 17 defensive players he's drafted. I know it's way too early to judge these last 2 drafts at the very least, but so far only one real impact defensive player, Cushing, out of 17 picks. And the jury is still out on him. I know Barwin has potential, they like Sharpton, too early to judge Mitchell, and even Jackson still has hope. But that's not very impressive to me.

And it isn't much better on the offensive side.

Jacoby
Frye
Studdard
Brown
Slaton
Brink
Caldwell
Hill
Casey
Tate
Graham
Smith
Holliday
Dickerson

Duane Brown the best of that bunch. Casey probably #2. I've seen enough of Jacoby's stone hands. Slaton??? Too early to tell on the '10 class of course, but the offensive side doesn't look much better.

I'm not convinced Rick Smith has a talent evaluation bone in his body.

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 10:16 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/LanceZierlein

@Lance Zierlein
There are people around the league who believe "the rats are jumping ship" in Houston in regards to people distancing themselves from Kubiak

Pantherstang84
12-28-2010, 10:19 PM
Yeah. I get the sense he may get a chance to save his job Monday in a meeting.

If he stays, Rick Smith must go and be replaced with someone who will be the boss. Kubiak must answer to the GM and despite his affection for Kubiak, McNair must set the structure up so that the GM is the boss and makes the decisions starting 1/4/2010.

I said it before. McNair loves him some Kubiak, but some major changes have to be made down there at 2 Reliant Park.

Thorn
12-28-2010, 10:20 PM
Rumors and rumors of rumors. Someone call me when there is some actual news.

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 10:21 PM
SH,

If this rumor is true,what do you think the chances of Smith making a quality hire?

10%-20% even a blind Smith finds a nut every now and then.

djohn2oo8
12-28-2010, 10:28 PM
Let's also keep in mind that Barry Warner is the same guy who GUARANTEED in 2009 that Vince Young would be a Houston Texan in 2010.
31 minutes ago via TweetDeck

http://twitter.com/HoustonDiehards

This is all smokescreen guys, the Texans wouldn't leak the same names for it not to be one

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 10:37 PM
Please take a minute to read this BIO of experience taken from the Texans home site. After reading this, does anyone have the same feeling that I have..........."Is that all there is????":

In his former role with the Broncos, Smith was responsible for evaluating players from around the NFL, as well as those in NFL Europe, the Canadian Football League, the Arena Football League and other professional leagues. He also played a central role in the club痴 preparation for the college draft and was one of the Broncos primary negotiators for player contracts.

With Smith heading the pro personnel department, the Broncos posted the league痴 fifth-best regular-season record from 2000-05, going 61-35 (.635). The 61 wins were the most of any AFC West team over that span, 10 more than the next closest team, Kansas City. Not surprisingly, Denver was one of only four teams in the NFL to reach the playoffs each season from 2003-05.

Before moving into the front office, Smith spent four years as the Broncos assistant defensive backs coach and earned two Super Bowl rings while helping guide a unit that consistently ranked as one of the league痴 best. The team won more games from 1996-98 (46) than any club in NFL history over a three-year period.

Smith joined the Broncos on April 3, 1996, following a two-year stint as defensive backs coach at his alma mater, Purdue University. He left Purdue in February to accept a coaching position at TCU but spent just one month at the school before being hired by the Broncos.

A 1992 graduate of Purdue, Smith began his coaching career with the Boilermakers shortly after his graduation, serving as the school痴 assistant strength and conditioning coordinator as a grad assistant. After serving as the team痴 tight ends coach for one season, Smith was hired as the secondary coach, becoming the youngest position coach in the Big Ten Conference at the time at the age of 24.

Smith was a starter at strong safety and defensive captain for Purdue as a senior in 1991. A native of Petersburg, Va., he attended Meadowdale High School in Dayton, Ohio. Smith also is a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 10:40 PM
SH,

If this rumor is true,what do you think the chances of Smith making a quality hire?

10%-20% even a blind Smith finds his nuts every now and then.

When, in the unlikely event he does manage to find them, what do you think he does with them?:thinking:

leebigeztx
12-28-2010, 10:41 PM
I think people are under selling hugh jackson. Hugh has been nails the last few places he's been. Look at oakland offensively this year and the small sample when he was in atl and carson has been garbage since he left. If he brought in a defensive coach like ron meeks and other good coaches, I would have no probelm with that.

hookinreds
12-28-2010, 10:45 PM
Cant confirm or deny this as I wasnt listening so just tifwiw if that but apparently Barry Warner just said on radio that Rick Smith will be retained and Texans are eyeing Raiders OC Hue Jackson, Air Force and former Texans OC Troy Calhoun and Texas A&M coach Mike Sherman

F'ing shoot me now!

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 10:51 PM
Please take a minute to read this BIO of experience taken from the Texans home site. After reading this, does anyone have the same feeling that I have..........."Is that all there is????":

Kubes gave Smith his chance.

Smith rewarded Kubes faith by stabbing him in the back.

Is a man of Smiths' chacter the kinda guy you would want running your NFL franchise?

Kaiser Toro
12-28-2010, 10:52 PM
I think people are under selling hugh jackson. Hugh has been nails the last few places he's been. Look at oakland offensively this year and the small sample when he was in atl and carson has been garbage since he left. If he brought in a defensive coach like ron meeks and other good coaches, I would have no probelm with that.

I can't buy it. The biggest thing that happened to the Raiders was getting rid of Russell, much like what we saw here when Carr was finally let go. Being a WR coach for the Bengals ain't ticking the needle for me either.

The one intangible thing I can say about the guy is that he has seen a lot of bad organizations in the last decade - Redskins (Spurrier), Bengals, Falcons (Petrino) and the Raiders. Minus a stop with the Ravens, his resume has me scratching my head.

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 10:53 PM
When, in the unlikely event he does manage to find them, what do you think he does with them?:thinking:

LOL

He asks Uncle BoB if he would like them back.

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 10:53 PM
Please take a minute to read this BIO of experience taken from the Texans home site. After reading this, does anyone have the same feeling that I have..........."Is that all there is????":

Well, but, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of GM's have come up via the player personell route. Right? I think that's the normal chain for a lot of GM's.

houstonspartan
12-28-2010, 10:56 PM
Kubes gave Smith his chance.

Smith rewarded Kubes faith by stabbing him in the back.

Is a man of Smiths' chacter the kinda guy you would want running your NFL franchise?

How is Smith stabbing him in the back? It's not like Gary is being fired after taking this team to the playoffs. If he's fired, it's justified. And the General Manager should be the one to do it.

Personally, I think it's well past time for Smith to grow a pair and lead this team like a real GM. He's been hiding for too long.

Texan4Ever
12-28-2010, 11:03 PM
We should really consider cleaning house and starting over. As dumb as it may sound, the coaching is lacking and it reflects in the players. I'm not sure of how many coord. are out there and willing to come down here, but if we can lock up Cowher or Gruden, that shouldn't be a problem.

The offense is solid and only needs a few tweaks. The defense is in shambles and I wouldn't be upset if we switched to a 3-4 scheme. Knowing the Texans, something will always go wrong so why not build the defense for two or three years into a stable, dependable unit (while making it to the playoffs)?

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 11:16 PM
If this comes to be, expect Bob to get up in front of the Texans faithful with a perfectly understable explanation..........
http://s2.hubimg.com/u/404825_f260.jpg "THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!!"

May have something to do with 31 experienced football insiders saying something about "the right track"?
:kubepalm:

steelbtexan
12-28-2010, 11:16 PM
How is Smith stabbing him in the back? It's not like Gary is being fired after taking this team to the playoffs. If he's fired, it's justified. And the General Manager should be the one to do it.

Personally, I think it's well past time for Smith to grow a pair and lead this team like a real GM. He's been hiding for too long.

I agree with you

The fact Smith hasn't grown a pair in 4 yrs.

Leads me to think he isn't the man to lead a NFL franchise to a SB trophy.

infantrycak
12-28-2010, 11:20 PM
Personally, I think it's well past time for Smith to grow a pair and lead this team like a real GM. He's been hiding for too long.

Well maybe he wasn't hired in to be a traditional GM. But of course we can clamor for Cowher and have another non-real GM but that will be OK.

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 11:31 PM
The offense is solid and only needs a few tweaks. The defense is in shambles and I wouldn't be upset if we switched to a 3-4 scheme. Knowing the Texans, something will always go wrong so why not build the defense for two or three years into a stable, dependable unit (while making it to the playoffs)?

The offense is smoke & mirrors. The only real talent yove got there is AJ. Even Foster is questionable, even Schaub. Bring in a new offensive system, and there is no telling what you'll get.

Take away the ZBS, there may not be any holes for Foster to run through. Take away the WCO, and those short routes that turn into huge plays won't be there for Matt, OD, Jacoby, & Walter.

I'm not saying we need to keep Kubiak, keeping Dennison may suffice. I'm just saying the offense is not "solid"

Lucky
12-28-2010, 11:39 PM
The offense is smoke & mirrors. The only real talent yove got there is AJ. Even Foster is questionable...
What's questionable about Foster? The ZBS prior to Foster went nowhere. Now, you want to credit it for Foster's success?

There's plenty of talent on this offense to make just about any legit NFL scheme work. There's a lot more talent on defense that has shown, also.

Runner
12-28-2010, 11:45 PM
Offense good. Defense bad.

houstonspartan
12-29-2010, 12:08 AM
What's questionable about Foster? The ZBS prior to Foster went nowhere. Now, you want to credit it for Foster's success?

There's plenty of talent on this offense to make just about any legit NFL scheme work. There's a lot more talent on defense that has shown, also.

Agree. I've never bought into the ZBS. I want it gone.

GP
12-29-2010, 12:25 AM
It sounds like you're saying 2009's lack of a running game was because Rick Smith didn't get us a running back Kubiak wanted/needed.

I don't know how this is an argument for keeping Rick Smith, & ditching Kubiak.



Again, you make it sound as if Kubiak fell on the sword, taking responsibility for Smith's bad decisions.

Can you imagine Kubiak "firing" Kris Brown, & Smith saying..... "I'm not getting you a kicker..... you had one, you didn't make it work."

Same thing with Chris Brown... if you're saying Kubiak had been waking up every morning waiting for Rick Smith to send him a talented runner....

You're saying Rick Smith is not Kubiak's puppet. The decision or inability to sign Larry Johnson before MNF last year (which I think very well cost us the play-offs) is squarely on Smith's shoulders.

But you're blaming Kubiak for sticking with Brown.

Trindon Holliday. Kubiak, IMO, couldn't wait for the kid to fail. He was on his ass from day one. Why? Because that wasn't Kubiak's choice, IMO. It was a Joe Marciano favor of some sorts...grabbing a returner at the end of the draft.

Then we see Slaton back there, fumbling kickoffs and running into piles of defenders when we'd be better off letting it go out of the end zone or just downing it in the end zone.

My point is that Gary Kubiak is responsible for the mess on the field. He took the mess out of training camp, trotted that mess onto the field for preseason, and then continued the mess into the regular season.

I have no doubt that Rick Smith influences player acquistions. You're missing my whole point here: I am not saying that Rick Smith is "good" or "bad." I am saying that BOB MCNAIR really likes Rick Smith. It's why I have always believed that Rick Smith has a longer shelf life here than Gary Kubiak. Good, bad, indifferent, it doesn't matter: The owner trusts this GM, IMO, and he trusts him enough to believe that Kubiak screwed everything up.

Rex "Foot Licker" Ryan even believes Kareem Jackson will be a good dback someday. Rex knows defense. I don't think Rex was lying about that. And if Rick Smith indeed has influence over the picks we make on defense, then I'm thinking he knows more about it than Gary Kubiak. The Frank Bush hiring, IMO, was perhaps the best way for Rick Smith to allow Kubiak that extra inch of rope that was needed to hang Gary by. Kubiak had been waiting for Bush's contract to expire, IIRC. We dilly-dallied around with improving our defense due to Kubiak waiting for Frank Bush to become eligible for hiring, and even THEN we didn't improve our defense. I don't think a proven d-coord would have come here with Kubiak as HC. With COWHER as HC? Likely so.

I don't think many people view Gary Kubiak as being nearly the sort of HC you want to hitch your career to. Unless you're on offense, and then you've got some potential there, IMO, to pad your stats like our guys pad stats and yet can't win games.

GP
12-29-2010, 12:38 AM
Bill Cowher just watched an entire NFL season where an undrafted guy named Arian Foster, in what was essentially Foster's rookie season this year, is FIRST in rushing yards, total yards, TDs, and possibly average yards (can't remember the fourth category for sure, though).

He's a run-heavy coach. My gawd, can you imagine if Bill Cowher came here and had our offense and only needed to tweak the defense?

Talk about walking back into the coaching game with one half of the equation already solved!

I hope we all get treated to the next four years of seeing how close we'd been the past four years to getting to the playoffs. It kinda' sucks, though, because overall Gary Kubiak did a fairly decent job of assembling a competent offense. The entirety of the HC job was just too overwhelming for him this time around, though. And sadly enough, I don't think he would do any better with four years as HC of the Broncos (if that happened, of course).

Lastly, if Kubiak squeaks out of getting fired...I have to believe that Wade Phillips is going to be our defensive coordinator. Wade's another "good guy" who found head coaching to be too overwhelming of a job.

Lastly Part II: McNair has to interview a minority for HC, so everyone has to remember that if and when that time comes. WHoever that guy is, he's just being used via the rules set in place by the NFL. He won't be hired. I have to believe, as well, that McNair knows full well that the fan base is not going to accept anything other than the best HC out there. Maybe this is one reason we've been avoiding hig-priced free agents for the past few years: Saving the cash needed to bring in a proven HC? Not sayin'...just sayin'.

Texans_Chick
12-29-2010, 09:04 AM
My thoughts are here: http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html)

Often when McClain about faces, he has reasons to do so that involve hearing enough stuff to feel a certain way but not enough to write a full boogie story.

I have a terrible feeling about all of this.

I don't want change. I want the right change. Picking the wrong GM/coach combo is like picking a bad first pick quarterback. It crush your franchise for years.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 09:27 AM
My thoughts are here: http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html)

Often when McClain about faces, he has reasons to do so that involve hearing enough stuff to feel a certain way but not enough to write a full boogie story.

I have a terrible feeling about all of this.

I don't want change. I want the right change. Picking the wrong GM/coach combo is like picking a bad first pick quarterback. It crush your franchise for years.

The only thing we know for sure is that Kubiak is unfit to be a head coach.

The only true mistake we can make is to not change at all.

I'd rather strike out swinging.

Can't be afraid of the fryer when you're sitting in the frying pan.

Texans_Chick
12-29-2010, 09:30 AM
my thoughts are here: http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html)

often when mcclain about faces*, he has reasons to do so that involve hearing enough stuff to feel a certain way but not enough to write a full boogie story.

I have a terrible feeling about all of this.

I don't want change. I want the right change. Picking the wrong gm/coach combo is like picking a bad first pick quarterback. It crush your franchise for years.

*rumors

dalemurphy
12-29-2010, 09:58 AM
My thoughts are here: http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/12/on_the_gary_kubiak_rick_smith.html)

Often when McClain about faces, he has reasons to do so that involve hearing enough stuff to feel a certain way but not enough to write a full boogie story.

I have a terrible feeling about all of this.

I don't want change. I want the right change. Picking the wrong GM/coach combo is like picking a bad first pick quarterback. It crush your franchise for years.

I read this last night and it is an excellent article. Barrett seems similarly worried by these rumors. I am not. I don't see McNair dumping Kubiak, whom he really likes, simply to go on a search for a group with little experience and no gravitas. Furthermore, it is hard to imagine replacing Kubiak with an offensive-oriented coach. If they do go with someone lacking in head coaching experience, wouldn't it surely be to primarily address the defensive issues over the past five years?

I realize that I'm arguing about what makes sense while you are simply worried that McNair will make a decision that doesn't make sense. This rumor just doesn't hold water with me.

I wish we had more knowledge regarding how decisions are made. What if Kubiak had the final say on everything and was determined to keep Frank Okam, dump Jacques Reeves, and hire Frank Bush... all the while, Rick Smith was screaming to cut Okam, keep Reeves, and interview Gregg Williams. We simply don't know how decisions were made and will never know enough detail to assess where the blame lies. I look forward to a more traditionally structured organization, so that we can have a better understanding of who's making the decisions.

I am certainly not thrilled with the idea of Rick Smith hiring the next head coach. However, I tend to think he has done much better with the personnel than he is being creditted. It's hard to argue that the talent is in place and leadership is what is dragging this team down and then also argue the GM that assembled most of the talent is clueless. It's interesting to note how each of his drafts have looked quite good (until this season) in year one but the players faded quickly after their rookie seasons (particularly on defense)... I think this indicates issues with the coaching staff and possibly the strength and conditioning coaches.

2007: Okoye, Jacoby Jones, Fred Bennett (Okoye and Bennett started strong and faded remarkably over 2008 and 2009.. Jacoby was a solid selection, as was Studdard and Diles in the final two rounds.

2008: DBrown, Molden, Slaton... all looked very promising in 2008. Brown was good in 2009, I thought and has fallen off this season. Slaton and Molden both disappeared off the table.

2009: Cushing, Barwin, Quin, McCain, Casey- all contributed last season. Some played great (cushing) and (quin). The rest flashed a great deal. This season, Cushing has fallen off. Barwin is out for the year. Casey has been less involved, and Quin and McCain have looked lost much of the season.

I don't know the answer.. but I wonder what these players would be like being coached by a different staff.

CloakNNNdagger
12-29-2010, 10:24 AM
I came across this collegiate piece on a Alabama loss that made me chuckle.......and at the same time, had me look even closer at Rick Smith's GM talent evaluation genius.


Utes strike back, 10:04 3Q

On the first play from scrimmage after the Bama touchown, Brian Johnson hit Freddie Brown for 33 yards, and Alabama coach Nick Saban spint down the sideline to scream at defensive back Kareem Jackson, who missed a tackle on the play.

The announcement was just made with 11:05 remaining that Alabama back up left tackle Mike Johnson would not return to the game.

The Utes responded with a drive that looked a lot like their first offensive series of the game. They moved down the field with quick strikes.

Utah scored when Johnson hit David Reed with a 28 yard pass. Reed broke the tackle of Jackson, who was once again screamed at by Saban.

...........and now Kareem Jackson falls down...............professionally.

GP
12-29-2010, 10:27 AM
I don't think Kareem is a starting CB in this league.

Maybe as a nickel back, so he isn't alone on an island. But not one-on-one all game long.

Not sure if he could fit at free safety. I like the guy, just not as a true starting CB. Feels like an under-developed Jacques Reeves to me.

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 10:51 AM
Inept and incompetent. Words that I hate to associate with a team that I follow, but the past 9 years are clearly indicative of these phrases.

And I hate to say it, but I don't see the trend magically reversing itself on Monday. Prove me wrong, Bob McNair, but your M.O. says otherwise.

steelbtexan
12-29-2010, 10:51 AM
I read this last night and it is an excellent article. Barrett seems similarly worried by these rumors. I am not. I don't see McNair dumping Kubiak, whom he really likes, simply to go on a search for a group with little experience and no gravitas. Furthermore, it is hard to imagine replacing Kubiak with an offensive-oriented coach. If they do go with someone lacking in head coaching experience, wouldn't it surely be to primarily address the defensive issues over the past five years?

I realize that I'm arguing about what makes sense while you are simply worried that McNair will make a decision that doesn't make sense. This rumor just doesn't hold water with me.

I wish we had more knowledge regarding how decisions are made. What if Kubiak had the final say on everything and was determined to keep Frank Okam, dump Jacques Reeves, and hire Frank Bush... all the while, Rick Smith was screaming to cut Okam, keep Reeves, and interview Gregg Williams. We simply don't know how decisions were made and will never know enough detail to assess where the blame lies. I look forward to a more traditionally structured organization, so that we can have a better understanding of who's making the decisions.

I am certainly not thrilled with the idea of Rick Smith hiring the next head coach. However, I tend to think he has done much better with the personnel than he is being creditted. It's hard to argue that the talent is in place and leadership is what is dragging this team down and then also argue the GM that assembled most of the talent is clueless. It's interesting to note how each of his drafts have looked quite good (until this season) in year one but the players faded quickly after their rookie seasons (particularly on defense)... I think this indicates issues with the coaching staff and possibly the strength and conditioning coaches.

2007: Okoye, Jacoby Jones, Fred Bennett (Okoye and Bennett started strong and faded remarkably over 2008 and 2009.. Jacoby was a solid selection, as was Studdard and Diles in the final two rounds.

2008: DBrown, Molden, Slaton... all looked very promising in 2008. Brown was good in 2009, I thought and has fallen off this season. Slaton and Molden both disappeared off the table.

2009: Cushing, Barwin, Quin, McCain, Casey- all contributed last season. Some played great (cushing) and (quin). The rest flashed a great deal. This season, Cushing has fallen off. Barwin is out for the year. Casey has been less involved, and Quin and McCain have looked lost much of the season.

I don't know the answer.. but I wonder what these players would be like being coached by a different staff.

The only guys that I would call avg NFL starters in those drafts are Cushing and Brown.

Do you want a guy with Smiths' track record in the raft selecting the next HC? I dont

When you put together Smiths' draft recoerd and Kubiaks' inability to get this team to play 4 qtrs. You get 5-11. This is where this franchise stands and if Smith remains I dont look for the team to get better. 3 yrs from now we will be having the same discusions that we have been having for the last 2 yrs.

steelbtexan
12-29-2010, 10:54 AM
Inept and incompetent. Words that I hate to associate with a team that I follow, but the past 9 years are clearly indicative of these phrases.

And I hate to say it, but I don't see the trend magically reversing itself on Monday. Prove me wrong, Bob McNair, but your M.O. says otherwise.

Agreed

I wouldn't count on McNair proving you wrong.

Jackie Chiles
12-29-2010, 10:54 AM
Hypothetical conversation with a friend:

Me: So did you hear the rumored list of coaching candidates? Mike Sherman, Troy Calhoun and Hue Jackson.

Friend: Who Jackson?

Me: Hue Jackson.

Friend: You Jackson?

Me: HUE Jackson!

Friend: Oh. We want to interview Wolverine?

Me: :kubepalm:

dalemurphy
12-29-2010, 10:57 AM
The only guys that I would call avg NFL starters in those drafts are Cushing and Brown.

Do you want a guy with Smiths' track record in the raft selecting the next HC? I dont

When you put together Smiths' draft recoerd and Kubiaks' inability to get this team to play 4 qtrs. You get 5-11. This is where this franchise stands and if Smith remains I dont look for the team to get better. 3 yrs from now we will be having the same discusions that we have been having for the last 2 yrs.

As I said, I don't want want Rick Smith selecting the next head coach, regardless of his draft record. My issue is that none of the head coaches I would be interested in replacing Kubiak with could be hired and work under Rick Smith. Perhaps he could hire Jim Harbaugh. I would be optimistic about that move, though I'm not really wanting a coach without NFL experience.

steelbtexan
12-29-2010, 12:01 PM
As I said, I don't want want Rick Smith selecting the next head coach, regardless of his draft record. My issue is that none of the head coaches I would be interested in replacing Kubiak with could be hired and work under Rick Smith. Perhaps he could hire Jim Harbaugh. I would be optimistic about that move, though I'm not really wanting a coach without NFL experience.

Prediction

The Texans are screwed if Smith stays on and hiers the new HC.

This mreans another 3-5 yrs of suckitude.

Speedy
12-29-2010, 12:57 PM
The only thing we know for sure is that Kubiak is unfit to be a head coach.

That's horsecrap! If this team had a defense that just sucked instead of being god-awful horrific, this team would be 10-5 right now and nobody would be calling for Kubiak's head. Well, some people still would regardless, but still.

Good thing Cleveland got rid of that unfit Belichick scrub.

J_R
12-29-2010, 01:00 PM
That's horsecrap! If this team had a defense that just sucked instead of being god-awful horrific, this team would be 10-5 right now and nobody would be calling for Kubiak's head. Well, some people still would regardless, but still.

Good thing Cleveland got rid of that unfit Belichick scrub.

We had an average(or just about) defense last year? Well wait, we then didnt have a kicker, didnt have a running game, didnt have this, didnt have that.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:00 PM
That's horsecrap! If this team had a defense that just sucked instead of being god-awful horrific, this team would be 10-5 right now and nobody would be calling for Kubiak's head. Well, some people still would regardless, but still.

Good thing Cleveland got rid of that unfit Belichick scrub.

Kubiak has hired the last two DCs.

The defense is his responsibility, and he has failed miserably.

He is an offensive coordinator at best, nothing more. And even in that capacity, he often outsmarts himself by trusting/relying on Schaub too much and forgetting we have a running game for half the season.

He sucks at game prep (one of the worst first-half teams we've ever seen) and clock management (not to mention his league worst challenge record), and wouldn't know a good D if it walked up and bit him in the rear.

If you think that is good HC material, then you're fooling yourself.

:kubepalm:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 01:03 PM
This franchise needs a complete overhaul. To keep Kubiak and/or Rick Smith would be like polishing a turd.

JB
12-29-2010, 01:06 PM
Kubiak has hired the last two DCs.

The defense is his responsibility, and he has failed miserably.

He is an offensive coordinator at best, nothing more. And even in that capacity, he often outsmarts himself by trusting/relying on Schaub too much and forgetting we have a running game for half the season.

He sucks at game prep (one of the worst first-half teams we've ever seen) and clock management (not to mention his league worst challenge record), and wouldn't know a good D if it walked up and bit him in the rear.

If you think that is good HC material, then you're fooling yourself.

:kubepalm:

"Gary Kubiak's as good a football coach as anybody's got."

per Nick Scurfields twitter


I think Bum kinda knows what makes a good coach...

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:09 PM
per Nick Scurfields twitter


I think Bum kinda knows what makes a good coach...

Wonderful. An 87 year old Houston football relic that hasn't coached or been involved in the NFL in 25 years gives Gary the thumbs up. Welp, that does it folks. Kubes is gold. Case closed.

Speedy
12-29-2010, 01:13 PM
Wonderful. An 87 year old Houston football relic that hasn't coached or been involved in the NFL in 15 years gives Gary the thumbs up. Welp, that does it folks. Kubes is gold. Case closed.

No different than a message board poster thinking he knows any better.

JB
12-29-2010, 01:13 PM
Wonderful. An 87 year old Houston football relic that hasn't coached or been involved in the NFL in 15 years gives Gary the thumbs up. Welp, that does it folks. Kubes is gold. Case closed.

I would take his opinion over yours any day..and twice on Sunday's.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:14 PM
No different than a message board poster thinking he knows any better.

That's pretty much my point.

Bum Phillips' endorsement isn't exactly anything to hang your hat on.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 01:14 PM
I would take his opinion over yours any day..and twice on Sunday's.



Do you really believe Kubiak is as good a coach as there is in the NFL?

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:16 PM
I would take his opinion over yours any day..and twice on Sunday's.

Good for you.

So let's recap:

Donny - Posts facts, astute observations, reality based criticism.

JB - Basing his opinion on some guy because he was part of some by-gone Oilers era that you have sentimental attachment to.

Awesome.

Speedy
12-29-2010, 01:17 PM
Do you really believe Kubiak is as good a coach as there is in the NFL?

No. I don't think he's as good as there is, but he ain't the worst either. To say he's unfit is just talking out of your ass.

JB
12-29-2010, 01:17 PM
Do you really believe Kubiak is as good a coach as there is in the NFL?

I didn't say I believed it. I quoted a Bum Philips quote, and yes, I do have a lot of respect for Bum. He has been out of the NFL for awhile, but the man knows football and I don't think anyone with a lick of common sense could argue otherwise.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:19 PM
I didn't say I believed it. I quoted a Bum Philips quote, and yes, I do have a lot of respect for Bum. He has been out of the NFL for awhile, but the man knows football and I don't think anyone with a lick of common sense could argue otherwise.

Bum Phillips could say 2+2=5, or that Brian Billick isn't an egotistical d*uchenozzle, wouldn't make it true.

The facts stare you in the face, and this is all you can come up with to defend Kubiak?

:kubepalm:

djohn2oo8
12-29-2010, 01:20 PM
All you kubiak lovers will be satisfied when Kubiak mismanages Foster yet again next season

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 01:20 PM
I am all for folks trashing each other, just keep it to PMs. Should you need instruction on how to use the Private Messaging feature let me know I will direct you.

As a reminder for this forum: Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

JB
12-29-2010, 01:20 PM
Good for you.

So let's recap:

Donny - Posts facts, astute observations, reality based criticism.

JB - Basing his opinion on some guy because he was part of some by-gone Oilers era that you have sentimental attachment to.

Awesome.

No, you posted your opinions. Nothing more. And you don't have a clue what I have an attachment to, nor have I stated what my opinion was other than the one that I think Bum is more knowledgeable about what it takes to make a good football coach than you do.

Speedy
12-29-2010, 01:23 PM
Bum Phillips could say 2+2=5, or that Brian Billick isn't an egotistical d*uchenozzle, wouldn't make it true.



FACT - Bum Phillips doesn't say those things so get off of it already. YOU saying something is FACT doesn't make it so either. So give your opinion, which is what this board is for, and extend the courtesy of others to do the same.

Vinnie
12-29-2010, 01:23 PM
That's horsecrap! If this team had a defense that just sucked instead of being god-awful horrific, this team would be 10-5 right now and nobody would be calling for Kubiak's head. Well, some people still would regardless, but still.

Good thing Cleveland got rid of that unfit Belichick scrub.

I tend to agree with this. We'd be in first in the division right now and licking our chops for a David Garrardless Jags team with thoughts of the post season dancing in our heads.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:25 PM
No, you posted your opinions. Nothing more. And you don't have a clue what I have an attachment to, nor have I stated what my opinion was other than the one that I think Bum is more knowledgeable about what it takes to make a good football coach than you do.


It isn't my *opinion* that Kubiak has hired two failed defensive coordinators, that is fact. Historically bad defense, even, despite drafting for that side of the ball several years in a row. Underdeveloped talent would be an understatement.

It isn't my *opinion* that Kubiak's game prep has been miserable this season, that is fact. What is it now, 8-9 games with 7 or fewer points in the first half? Maybe more? That isn't even counting the defense.

It isn't my *opinion* that Kubiak often relies on Matt Schaub too much while ignoring Arian Foster, 5 second half carries vs. Denver, only a handful vs. the Colts when he's going for 8 ypc? Those aren't facts?

It isn't my *opinion* that Gary has a bad record in challenges. He is among the NFL's worst all time. That is fact.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 01:25 PM
No. I don't think he's as good as there is, but he ain't the worst either. To say he's unfit is just talking out of your ass.



So Kubiak not being the worst coach in the NFL is reason enough to keep him.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:28 PM
FACT - Bum Phillips doesn't say those things so get off of it already. YOU saying something is FACT doesn't make it so either. So give your opinion, which is what this board is for, and extend the courtesy of others to do the same.

If your opinion is based purely on what Bum Phillips has to say, then you can expect some heat for it.

At least I'm pointing out stuff that is, you know, actually happening in regards to the Texans and Kubiak.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 01:28 PM
How many active HCs have a worse resume as the HC than Gary Kubiak?

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:30 PM
Good thing Cleveland got rid of that unfit Belichick scrub.

Are you really banking on that argument?

Wow.

If you want to wait around for Gary to become the next Belichick, be my guest, but please do it in Denver.

Talk about wishing upon a star.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:31 PM
How many active HCs have a worse resume as the HC than Gary Kubiak?

In terms of active head coaches that have the same or more number of years with their team as Kubiak, Gary is by far the worst based on record.

JB
12-29-2010, 01:34 PM
If your opinion is based purely on what Bum Phillips has to say, then you can expect some heat for it.

At least I'm pointing out stuff that is, you know, actually happening in regards to the Texans and Kubiak.

Why do you have such a problem with the quote from Bum Philips? You stated that Kubiak was not fit to be a HC. I was just pointing out that there are some knowledgeable people that think he is a good coach.

Why do you have to give "heat" to someone that may have a different opinion than you? This MB is all about differing opinions, but apparently you figure everyone should toe your line?

Shaft75
12-29-2010, 01:35 PM
I just think some people get caught up too much in the fact that Gary Kubiak is a good guy or that he is a competent offensive mind.

We can't have a short memory here people. Think about some of the personnel decisions he has screwed up, think about the staff decisions that put us in a hole, and think about several questionable in-game decisions this coaching staff has made.

I think we all want a playoff team correct? No more on-the-job training.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:35 PM
Why do you have such a problem with the quote from Bum Philips? You stated that Kubiak was not fit to be a HC. I was just pointing out that there are some knowledgeable people that think he is a good coach.

Why do you have to give "heat" to someone that may have a different opinion than you? This MB is all about differing opinions, but apparently you figure everyone should toe your line?

I'm waiting for you to make a decent, logical, fact based argument in defense of Gary Kubiak.

houstonspartan
12-29-2010, 01:37 PM
I'm waiting for you to make a decent, logical, fact based argument in defense of Gary Kubiak.

Keep waiting. There isn't one.

markn
12-29-2010, 01:37 PM
McClain: I believe Kubiak will return after all (http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2010/12/i_believe_kubiak_will_return_a.html)

The guy changes his mind more often than his underwear.

Shaft75
12-29-2010, 01:39 PM
Why do you have such a problem with the quote from Bum Philips? You stated that Kubiak was not fit to be a HC. I was just pointing out that there are some knowledgeable people that think he is a good coach.

Why do you have to give "heat" to someone that may have a different opinion than you? This MB is all about differing opinions, but apparently you figure everyone should toe your line?

I somewhat agree with Donny, JB. You can't ignore all of the reasons this coach should go, just because good ol Bum says he's a good coach. I respect Bum's opinion, but at the end of the day you have to look at what has transpired in the office and on the field. I don't think any of us like it one bit.

JB
12-29-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm waiting for you to make a decent, logical, fact based argument in defense of Gary Kubiak.

Where did you get the idea I even wanted Kubiak to stay? I said I think Bum kinda knows what makes a good coach...

You reading something I didn't write?

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:42 PM
Where did you get the idea I even wanted Kubiak to stay? I said

You reading something I didn't write?

So, you don't want Kubiak to stay, yet you're concerned that Bum thinks he is a good coach? Sorry if I doubt your sincerity, but that makes no sense.


At least you're backpeddling in the right direction now. :bravo:

JB
12-29-2010, 01:43 PM
I somewhat agree with Donny, JB. You can't ignore all of the reasons this coach should go, just because good ol Bum says he's a good coach. I respect Bum's opinion, but at the end of the day you have to look at what has transpired in the office and on the field. I don't think any of us like it one bit.

Again, I never said (in the last week or so anyway) that I thought Kubiak should stay. Why are ya'll pulling that out of what I did say?

I think Bum kinda knows what makes a good coach...

I posted the Bum quote because some are acting like Kubiak should be nowhere near a football field, others think differently.

JB
12-29-2010, 01:44 PM
So, you don't want Kubiak to stay, yet you're concerned that Bum thinks he is a good coach? Sorry if I doubt your sincerity, but that makes no sense.


At least you're backpeddling in the right direction now. :bravo:

I didn't say I didn't want him to stay either. Why don't you read what I write and quit trying to make up stuff about what I mean.

gary
12-29-2010, 01:44 PM
DC Jon Gruden
OC Gary Kubiak
HC Bill Cowher

Not going to happen but one may dream.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 01:45 PM
I posted the Bum quote because some are acting like Kubiak should be nowhere near a football field, others think differently.

The only thing we know for sure is that Kubiak is unfit to be a head coach.



Agree or disagree?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 01:46 PM
DC Jon Gruden
OC Gary Kubiak
HC Bill Cowher

Not going to happen but one may dream.




Gruden has never been a defensive coach. He was a WR coach in GB and OC in Philly.

steelbtexan
12-29-2010, 01:49 PM
Love Bum he was the best thing that ever happened to Houston Texas.

How many SB rings does Bum own?

5-7 Four yrs running speaks volumes.

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 01:50 PM
Belichick only become the HoF coach that he is now because he was fired from Cleveland.

Do y'all see the fallacy of the Kubiak comparison here?

But, ol' Bob might as well sign Gary to a lifetime extension because Tom Landry did not have a winning season with an expansion team in his first five seasons. Regardless of the fact that Landry did not have to deal with free agency, collective bargaining, and a salary cap, Kubiak might end up being the genius that Landry was so we just can't let him go...despite the fact that Kubiak has shown absolutely no inclination to have the football mind that Landry had as both a player and a coach.

For every Belichick and Landry you try to reach in support of Kubiak, I can show you hundreds of coaches that were losers at one team and then losers at their next team. In time, Kubiak will be one of those examples. Our myopic owner just needs to get over his mancrush first.

Speedy
12-29-2010, 01:52 PM
So Kubiak not being the worst coach in the NFL is reason enough to keep him.

You know, this isn't Madden. It's not a video game. Changing things just because and at any and every whim isn't the way. There's things I can't stand about Kubiak but that doesn't mean he needs to hit the pavement every time something I can't stand happens. Any HC that we're ever going to have, somebody is not going to like something.

You can go back and look at the history of this board and see the people that didn't like the Kubiak hire before one snap of football was played. If they hired Cowher in the next 10 minutes, there's people not on board with that.

Do I like the fact that Kubiak has been here 5 years and we're still not in the playoffs, while others were hired at the same time and after, have? No. I don't like it one bit. Maybe time is up for Kubiak, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that is indeed the answer. If Kubes goes somewhere else and wins, much like Belichick did after leaving Cleveland, then what? Apparently Belichick was an unfit bum in Cleveland. Now he's going to Canton.

Things aren't always as simple as just swapping a coach. Especially when something else may be the problem coughGMcough

infantrycak
12-29-2010, 01:54 PM
So, you don't want Kubiak to stay, yet you're concerned that Bum thinks he is a good coach? Sorry if I doubt your sincerity, but that makes no sense.

This is a discussion MB not an "I state my opinion and then attack everyone who may slightly disagree with me MB." Try it out. It will work much better.

Agree or disagree?

Disagree and some owner(s) will prove it true if he is fired.

Belichick only become the HoF coach that he is now because he was fired from Cleveland.

Do y'all see the fallacy of the Kubiak comparison here?

I see a fallacy here. You and I are both history buffs. Was it Belichick needed to be fired or was it a poor GM or ... You can't take from Belichick that he needed to be fired to learned because there are lots of other possibilities for his subsequent success.

And let's not forget, New England now the standard of success hired Belichick as a cheap failed coach.

gary
12-29-2010, 01:55 PM
Gruden has never been a defensive coach. He was a WR coach in GB and OC in Philly.Some one in another thread said he was. My bad.

steelbtexan
12-29-2010, 01:56 PM
Kubiak is a nice version of Jerry Glanville to insecure to hire quality assistants. For this he should be fired. That and only having his team show up for 2 qtrs most every game for 3 yrs.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 01:59 PM
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

And the Belichick comparisons, really? Is that the small glimmer of hope we are supposed to hang our hat on?

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 02:00 PM
This is a discussion MB not an "I state my opinion and then attack everyone who may slightly disagree with me MB." Try it out. It will work much better.

It's not like I wasn't "attacked" for stating my initial opinion, either.

In fact, my initial post was responded to by being called "horsecrap".

That's horsecrap!.


And where have I personally insulted anyone? I have not used names or vulgarity at anyone. I have spoken to the facts and only the facts.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 02:00 PM
Disagree and some owner(s) will prove it true if he is fired.



What do you base this on?

GuerillaBlack
12-29-2010, 02:03 PM
You know, this isn't Madden. It's not a video game. Changing things just because and at any and every whim isn't the way. There's things I can't stand about Kubiak but that doesn't mean he needs to hit the pavement every time something I can't stand happens. Any HC that we're ever going to have, somebody is not going to like something.

You can go back and look at the history of this board and see the people that didn't like the Kubiak hire before one snap of football was played. If they hired Cowher in the next 10 minutes, there's people not on board with that.

Do I like the fact that Kubiak has been here 5 years and we're still not in the playoffs, while others were hired at the same time and after, have? No. I don't like it one bit. Maybe time is up for Kubiak, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that is indeed the answer. If Kubes goes somewhere else and wins, much like Belichick did after leaving Cleveland, then what? Apparently Belichick was an unfit bum in Cleveland. Now he's going to Canton.

Things aren't always as simple as just swapping a coach. Especially when something else may be the problem coughGMcough

You're forgetting something about Cleveland though. They fired Belichick, hired another coach (forgot his name), and he sucked, too. He was then fired and then they hired Brian Billick, who won them a Super Bowl as the Ravens. Plus, at least Belichick posted an 11-5 record and made the playoffs. Kubiak has done shit. No playoffs, 5-7 after 12 games for the fourth straight year, horrible timeout/clock management, bad personnel decisions, etc. Kubiak is no Belichick. People are so worried about the offense turning to suck again and I have no idea why. What coach is going to butcher an offense that has Andre Johnson, Arian Foster, Matt Schaub, and Owen Daniels. You got your QB, RB, WR, and TE. Everyone else is replaceable.

gary
12-29-2010, 02:03 PM
Rumor the Texans have their last game on Sunday.

Maddict5
12-29-2010, 02:09 PM
All you kubiak lovers will be satisfied when Kubiak mismanages Foster yet again next season

i think the only game that kubiak mismanaged arian this year was the second colts game.

arian has the most combined carries & catches as any rb in the league fwiw. if he got much more, hed be approaching larry johnson breakdown type numbers

Ole Miss Texan
12-29-2010, 02:14 PM
Rumor the Texans have their last game on Sunday.

Link please? JK

djohn2oo8
12-29-2010, 02:15 PM
i think the only game that kubiak mismanaged arian this year was the second colts game.arian has the most combined carries & catches as any rb in the league fwiw. if he got much more, hed be approaching larry johnson breakdown type numbers

That game along with the Baltimore game, and really every game that he gets pass happy with 30 pass plays and 5 run plays in the second half.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 02:15 PM
i think the only game that kubiak mismanaged arian this year was the second colts game.

arian has the most combined carries & catches as any rb in the league fwiw. if he got much more, hed be approaching larry johnson breakdown type numbers



Unless Kubiak plans on running Arian 100 times against JAX, he will come no where close to the 416 carries and 41 receptions LJ had before he broke down.

scourge
12-29-2010, 02:28 PM
First, I like Bum a lot and respect his opinions. However...

In Donny's defense(I like the DM reference btw), so far what he has said about Kubiak's stats ARE facts. Bum is stating an opinion. DM also agreed that a poster's comments(including his) are No different than a message board poster thinking he knows any better.

I'm in no way saying DM is more knowledgeable than Bum, but where is hard evidence that supports Bum?

As far as Bum knowing what it takes to be a good coach, who are the coaches who were under him that went on to greatness? Also, his record was 82-77 in the regular season and 4-3 in the playoffs. His teams offenses were only in the Top 10 in points twice in 11 years(5th&8th), and is yards just once(4th). I'm not even going to get in to the actual stats his defenses had over the years, compared to the legend. That's not to say he didn't have a great defensive mind, as his variation of the 3-4 was brilliant when executed correctly.

I probably sound like I'm discrediting Bum, but I'm really just pointing out that as far as his disciples go he definitely isn't a Belichik, Walsh, etc...

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 02:32 PM
First, I like Bum a lot and respect his opinions. However...

In Donny's defense(I like the DM reference btw), so far what he has said about Kubiak's stats ARE facts. Bum is stating an opinion. DM also agreed that a poster's comments(including his) are No different than a message board poster thinking he knows any better.

I'm in no way saying DM is more knowledgeable than Bum, but where is hard evidence that supports Bum?

As far as Bum knowing what it takes to be a good coach, who are the coaches who were under him that went on to greatness? Also, his record was 82-77 in the regular season and 4-3 in the playoffs. His teams offenses were only in the Top 10 in points twice in 11 years(5th&8th), and is yards just once(4th). I'm not even going to get in to the actual stats his defenses had over the years, compared to the legend. That's not to say he didn't have a great defensive mind, as his variation of the 3-4 was brilliant when executed correctly.

I probably sound like I'm discrediting Bum, but I'm really just pointing out that as far as his disciples go he definitely isn't a Belichik, Walsh, etc...

Honestly, what would you expect Bum to say?

He is a figurehead, representative, and cheerleader for the organization in certain respects. Would he publicly trash the head coach or McNair?

Dude was great in his day, but when it comes to objective, unbiased opinions about the Texans organization, its players, and coaches, he is not who I am going to turn to.

Maddict5
12-29-2010, 02:43 PM
That game along with the Baltimore game, and really every game that he gets pass happy with 30 pass plays and 5 run plays in the second half.

you cant use the ravens game as an example when we had torched them with the pass the whole second half and most of arians yds came on draw plays

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 02:43 PM
You know, this isn't Madden. It's not a video game. Changing things just because and at any and every whim isn't the way. There's things I can't stand about Kubiak but that doesn't mean he needs to hit the pavement every time something I can't stand happens. Any HC that we're ever going to have, somebody is not going to like something.



This is year 5 of the Kubiak regime. Any changes made wouldn't be on a whim.

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 02:44 PM
I see a fallacy here. You and I are both history buffs. Was it Belichick needed to be fired or was it a poor GM or ... You can't take from Belichick that he needed to be fired to learned because there are lots of other possibilities for his subsequent success.

And let's not forget, New England now the standard of success hired Belichick as a cheap failed coach.

I agree, which is why I find any comparison between Kubiak and Belichick to be silly at best, spurious and reaching at worst.

There are so many other factors involved that comparisons must ignore some of the fundamental aspects of each coach's tenure.

Belichick did not get to pick his GM. He also posted an 11-5 record and went to the playoffs (winning one playoff game). Both of these key facts seem to be omitted by folks trying to make the comparison.

I do find it funny that Belichick's record was 36-44 in Cleveland and his last year was 5-11. Almost identical to Kubiak (if we lose to the Jags, that will be his record on both accounts). Yet folks want to use him in support of keeping Kubiak?

As far as "failed coach", again he took them to the playoffs with an 11-5 record. We could only wish Kubiak had that kind of "failure" on his resume.

Our front office would have to magically transform to that of NE if we were to keep Kubiak and hope/expect the same emergence of football genius. I'm afraid that our FO is just as big a part of the problem as our coaching staff has been in this debacle.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 02:46 PM
you cant use the ravens game as an example when we had torched them with the pass the whole second half and most of arians yds came on draw plays

Of course you can.

Gary's pass happy nature ended up costing us that game.

Your defense makes a *rare* stop in OT.

Your offense has all the time in the world, pinned deep in your own territory where a turnover would be deadly, and the league's best running back averaging 5 yards a carry.

Pass
Pass
Pass-Pick-Gameover (62nd pass attempt lol)

:kubepalm:

Maddict5
12-29-2010, 02:53 PM
Unless Kubiak plans on running Arian 100 times against JAX, he will come no where close to the 416 carries and 41 receptions LJ had before he broke down.

thats 455 for LJ which everbody knew would be the end of him.
arians currently on 360 so that projects to 380-390 which is still a serious amount of work. anymore than 400 and you're asking for trouble. i wouldnt give arian any more touches than hes getting. wouldve given him more in the colts game and spelled him more in others though

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 02:56 PM
First, I like Bum a lot and respect his opinions. However...

In Donny's defense(I like the DM reference btw), so far what he has said about Kubiak's stats ARE facts. Bum is stating an opinion. DM also agreed that a poster's comments(including his) are No different than a message board poster thinking he knows any better.

I'm in no way saying DM is more knowledgeable than Bum, but where is hard evidence that supports Bum?

As far as Bum knowing what it takes to be a good coach, who are the coaches who were under him that went on to greatness? Also, his record was 82-77 in the regular season and 4-3 in the playoffs. His teams offenses were only in the Top 10 in points twice in 11 years(5th&8th), and is yards just once(4th). I'm not even going to get in to the actual stats his defenses had over the years, compared to the legend. That's not to say he didn't have a great defensive mind, as his variation of the 3-4 was brilliant when executed correctly.

I probably sound like I'm discrediting Bum, but I'm really just pointing out that as far as his disciples go he definitely isn't a Belichik, Walsh, etc...

Opinion:
Bum is a dinosaur, but part of the Houston football fabric as a coach and a Reliant Stadium partner. I have no doubt he is politicking, and his opinion is not quantifiable, but based on his gut. Whether it were Bum in 1979 or today, I would listen to his gut, but not make a decision squarely on it.

We are in a much different situation today than we were in 2005. The team quit back then and Carr had the organization stuck in suck. This team had every excuse to quit, but keeps playing even in the light of breaking infamous historical records. That has always meant a lot to me in sports, business and personal relationships. Believe me, I wanted them to quit in order to find the bottom, but they have not. That says something either about the character of the team or the coach, and since I have not heard anyone have a Dunta moment I am of the ilk that they respect Kubiak.

Yep, I am speaking in the nebulous world of intangibles, while having blasted Kubiak over the years about in-game management and many other things. However, my gut has been pointing me in the direction of a new GM and DC. Phillips is a solid DC, and I don't care about his lack of press conference personality. We need a legit, experienced DC, which is the one thing this franchise has missed since inception. Whether Kubiak stays or not, Phillips should be at the top of the list for DC.

Narrative:
With GM Smith, McNair needs to play this carefully. McNair is involved with the CBA and Smith has a unique profile that I would hypothesize is a soft issue (right, wrong or indifferent) in the PR game for the Texans and the owners. Consequently, he may have requested Smith to have a shadow HC search in order to deduce his network outside of the circle he shares with Kubiak, who was a major advocate in hiring him with the Texans. What has been reported/rumored is the result of that shadow search (NFL rules be damned), and is laughable. Consequently, Smith stays, but is reduced to contract negotiations, helping with the nfl/college board, and overseeing other operation duties. Kubiak and Phillips will have final say in the draft room.

Just an opinion :kubepalm:, and a narrative. :wadepalm:

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 03:01 PM
Just an opinion :kubepalm:, and a narrative. :wadepalm:

I am warming up to the idea of Wade as DC.

But, it isn't enough to make me swallow another year of Kubiak.

Will this make us better? It should.

But I firmly maintain that Kubiak is not HC material based on the facts I pointed out earlier and I will not be shocked if Gary ends up holding this team back from championship caliber success even if Wade can push us into the playoffs.

I hope I'm wrong, but Gary hasn't given me much reason to think otherwise. :(

scourge
12-29-2010, 03:01 PM
This is a discussion MB not an "I state my opinion and then attack everyone who may slightly disagree with me MB." Try it out. It will work much better.


How was the post you quoted attacking?


Honestly, what would you expect Bum to say?

He is a figurehead, representative, and cheerleader for the organization in certain respects. Would he publicly trash the head coach or McNair?

Dude was great in his day, but when it comes to objective, unbiased opinions about the Texans organization, its players, and coaches, he is not who I am going to turn to.

Agreed. He has ties with the organization and city. Gary is a local boy, which may tie into it as well. That is just my opinion, though.


Also, don't worry too much about cak's comments about attacking posters. There have been a few posters who have repeatedly used profanity and insulted other members directly and their families far worse than a "I think you are stupid" comment, such as their weight, their relationships, military background, etc. They are only told to cool off. You have a long ways to go.

Maddict5
12-29-2010, 03:07 PM
Of course you can.

Gary's pass happy nature ended up costing us that game.

Your defense makes a *rare* stop in OT.

Your offense has all the time in the world, pinned deep in your own territory where a turnover would be deadly, and the league's best running back averaging 5 yards a carry.

Pass
Pass
Pass-Pick-Gameover (62nd pass attempt lol)

:kubepalm:

we had scored on 5 consecutive drives & forced the ravens D into submission by the end if regulation through the pass game and the only turnover had come off a tipped ball which shouldve been caught (but nobody was doing much of that early on).

im ok with continuing to do what had caused that to happen until they stop it..which unfortunately they did because of one bad block that forced matt to throw a bad ball

im totally fine with kubiak staying aggressive in that situation.

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 03:08 PM
I am warming up to the idea as Wade as DC.

But, it isn't enough to make me swallow another year of Kubiak.

Will this make us better? It should.

But I firmly maintain that Kubiak is not HC material based on the facts I pointed out earlier and I will not be shocked if Gary ends up holding this team back from championship caliber success even if Wade can push us into the playoffs.

I hope I'm wrong, but Gary hasn't given me much reason to think otherwise. :(

I have been 100% on our first three lightning rod decisions that were eventually made - being squarely against Carr and Casserly, and for Mario. I have been extremely vocal on Kubiak's shortcomings, but I am having a hard time getting fully behind the release of the Kraken on Kubiak.

If he winds up being let go, I ain't going to shed a tear and certainly will not be able to have a "told you so" moment with my fellow members since I have been so vocal about his challenges as well.

ChampionTexan
12-29-2010, 03:09 PM
Opinion:
Bum is a dinosaur, but part of the Houston football fabric as a coach and a Reliant Stadium partner. I have no doubt he is politicking, and his opinion is not quantifiable, but based on his gut. Whether it were Bum in 1979 or today, I would listen to his gut, but not make a decision squarely on it.

We are in a much different situation today than we were in 2005. The team quit back then and Carr had the organization stuck in suck. This team had every excuse to quit, but keeps playing even in the light of breaking infamous historical records. That has always meant a lot to me in sports, business and personal relationships. Believe me, I wanted them to quit in order to find the bottom, but they have not. That says something either about the character of the team or the coach, and since I have not heard anyone have a Dunta moment I am of the ilk that they respect Kubiak.

Yep, I am speaking in the nebulous world of intangibles, while having blasted Kubiak over the years about in-game management and many other things. However, my gut has been pointing me in the direction of a new GM and DC. Phillips is a solid DC, and I don't care about his lack of press conference personality. We need a legit, experienced DC, which is the one thing this franchise has missed since inception. Whether Kubiak stays or not, Phillips should be at the top of the list for DC.

Narrative:
With GM Smith, McNair needs to play this carefully. McNair is involved with the CBA and Smith has a unique profile that I would hypothesize is a soft issue (right, wrong or indifferent) in the PR game for the Texans and the owners. Consequently, he may have requested Smith to have a shadow HC search in order to deduce his network outside of the circle he shares with Kubiak, who was a major advocate in hiring him with the Texans. What has been reported/rumored is the result of that shadow search (NFL rules be damned), and is laughable. Consequently, Smith stays, but is reduced to contract negotiations, helping with the nfl/college board, and overseeing other operation duties. Kubiak and Phillips will have final say in the draft room.

Just an opinion :kubepalm:, and a narrative. :wadepalm:

I actually like this quite a bit - although I still think I'd choose housecleaning, I also am not stupid enough to believe it's true just because it's what I think.

Here's a thought. Is there any chance that McNair would just create a new position - similar to the one Parcells had in Miami, and that Holmgren has in Cleveland and that person would be in charge of both the coach and the GM. He'd become the final word on all matters personnel, and if nothing else have veto power over Assistant coaching hires. He'd also be the lead dog if we did need to conduct a search for a new HC any time soon.

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 03:11 PM
we had scored on 5 consecutive drives & forced the ravens D into submission by the end if regulation through the pass game and the only turnover had come off a tipped ball which shouldve been caught (but nobody was doing much of that early on).

im ok with continuing to do what had caused that to happen until they stop it..which unfortunately they did because of one bad block that forced matt to throw a bad ball

im totally fine with kubiak staying aggressive in that situation.

The only justification is "well, it worked in the 4th quarter"....?

But, thing is, it's not the 4th quarter anymore. It's an entirely different dynamic. The Ravens aren't showing prevent. You *had* to pass there. You had no choice. In overtime, you knew a turnover would end it, and yet you went high risk anyway. Schaub has a knack for throwing the ill timed pick, and he was over 60 passes total... yet you still call 3 straight passes? Near your own endzone? Really? With Arian Foster in your pocket averaging 5 YPC?

Sorry, but that is inexcusable playcalling.

Gary is a quarterbacks coach at heart... he sometimes forgets that Matt Schaub isn't John Elway... it has happened before, and it will happen again.

BetaV1
12-29-2010, 03:14 PM
I am warming up to the idea of Wade as DC.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm having trouble warming up to the thought of the Flutie Curse... :bunpan:

DonnyMost
12-29-2010, 03:14 PM
I have been 100% on our first three lightning rod decisions that were eventually made - being squarely against Carr and Casserly, and for Mario. I have been extremely vocal on Kubiak's shortcomings, but I am having a hard time getting fully behind the release of the Kraken on Kubiak.

If he winds up being let go, I ain't going to shed a tear and certainly will not be able to have a "told you so" moment with my fellow members since I have been so vocal about his challenges as well.

If Gary winds up going on to bigger and better things, good for him, but no fan base has ever been this patient with a head coach in the modern era as we have with Gary. Any place else and he'd have been out on his butt weeks ago, if not earlier. So if your comrades want to blame anybody for Houston not getting to see the fruits of Kubiak's labor, they should blame Kubiak first, because he has eaten up all of his slack and good will here. It is beyond reasonable to part ways now, and very much justified.

Kaiser Toro
12-29-2010, 03:30 PM
If Gary winds up going on to bigger and better things, good for him, but no fan base has ever been this patient with a head coach in the modern era as we have with Gary. Any place else and he'd have been out on his butt weeks ago, if not earlier. So if your comrades want to blame anybody for Houston not getting to see the fruits of Kubiak's labor, they should blame Kubiak first, because he has eaten up all of his slack and good will here. It is beyond reasonable to part ways now, and very much justified.

Totally justified, five years is a long time. But having Rick Smith doing the hiring of a new HC would be worse than we have with Kubiak + Phillips. IMO, McNair likes them both and will not blow this up at the moment. Consequently, the lines are drawn, between this organization going with Smith or Kubiak. That is why I am much more in the Smith lite, Kubiak + Phillips formula to get us to 2012.

McNair is a businessman and he has to mitigate risk. Phillips buys everyone one more year and makes it easier to swallow contract terms of one year rather than two.

Ole Miss Texan
12-29-2010, 03:31 PM
we had scored on 5 consecutive drives & forced the ravens D into submission by the end if regulation through the pass game and the only turnover had come off a tipped ball which shouldve been caught (but nobody was doing much of that early on).

im ok with continuing to do what had caused that to happen until they stop it..which unfortunately they did because of one bad block that forced matt to throw a bad ball

im totally fine with kubiak staying aggressive in that situation.

It was a terrible throw by Matt, he had no force behind it at all. Although I would have run Foster more in that situation... I don't blame Kubiak at all for what happened. Schaub should not have forced the ball in that situation with no mustard on it. But then again Kubiak and Smith traded for Schaub so it's really their fault, right? meh

Mr teX
12-29-2010, 04:06 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I'm having trouble warming up to the thought of the Flutie Curse... :bunpan:

This is my thinking as well. I mean at the end of Wade's tenure in Dallas, the defense looked like garbage & Rodgers tore his beloved defense to shreds. Furthermore, it won't matter who's here running the D if the talent evaluation & FA acquiring continues to be ass.

This whole thread is funny b/c a few of us have been trying all along to point out that Smith deserves at least half of the blame for this garbage we've watched for the last 5 years & he needs to be gone as well. However, there was so much &^%$ being flung at kubiak, that it clouded the sky & the most we ever got was "well who hired him?" or "kubiak ultimately calls the shots & Smith was just a puppet" etc.

Now, a rumor swirls about Kubiak & the entire coaching staff possibly getting nixed.... but Smith staying & instead of :texanbill: all over the thread since it would mean kubiak, the antichrist of head coaching & his minions were outta here, people are now beginning to light into smith & are upset that he'd be staying even though all their vitriol has been directed at kubiak........under the current rumor that is...:wadepalm::kubepalm: C'mon folks, either its all kubiak's fault or it isn't.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 04:45 PM
Chalk up Von Miller as our rush linebacker in the first round.

ThaShark316
12-29-2010, 04:58 PM
Chalk up Von Miller as our rush linebacker in the first round.

Yup.

Double Barrel
12-29-2010, 05:13 PM
This is my thinking as well. I mean at the end of Wade's tenure in Dallas, the defense looked like garbage & Rodgers tore his beloved defense to shreds. Furthermore, it won't matter who's here running the D if the talent evaluation & FA acquiring continues to be ass.

This whole thread is funny b/c a few of us have been trying all along to point out that Smith deserves at least half of the blame for this garbage we've watched for the last 5 years & he needs to be gone as well. However, there was so much &^%$ being flung at kubiak, that it clouded the sky & the most we ever got was "well who hired him?" or "kubiak ultimately calls the shots & Smith was just a puppet" etc.

Now, a rumor swirls about Kubiak & the entire coaching staff possibly getting nixed.... but Smith staying & instead of :texanbill: all over the thread since it would mean kubiak, the antichrist of head coaching & his minions were outta here, people are now beginning to light into smith & are upset that he'd be staying even though all their vitriol has been directed at kubiak........under the current rumor that is...:wadepalm::kubepalm: C'mon folks, either its all kubiak's fault or it isn't.

I think Kubiak takes the brunt of all the blame from fans because he chose the GM. Right or wrong, he's the point man as far as fans are concerned. Smith stays out of the public eye most of the time.

But I agree completely with you. Smith is a part of the problem, not part of the solution. I hope they clean house, but I do not have any confidence that McNair will choose this course of action.

GuerillaBlack
12-29-2010, 05:28 PM
It was a terrible throw by Matt, he had no force behind it at all. Although I would have run Foster more in that situation... I don't blame Kubiak at all for what happened. Schaub should not have forced the ball in that situation with no mustard on it. But then again Kubiak and Smith traded for Schaub so it's really their fault, right? meh

Look at Donny's post. It's overtime. Why throw three straight passes near your own endzone? Especially when Arian was doing well against the Ravens D (five yards a carry). Run the ball first, get out of your endzone, and proceed to open up the passing game once you got further down the field. Not at your own five.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-29-2010, 05:44 PM
It was a terrible throw by Matt, he had no force behind it at all. Although I would have run Foster more in that situation... I don't blame Kubiak at all for what happened. Schaub should not have forced the ball in that situation with no mustard on it. But then again Kubiak and Smith traded for Schaub so it's really their fault, right? meh



Schaub had no choice but to force it. He was standing in his own endzone with Ngata coming in free which is why he threw it off his back foot.

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 06:19 PM
It isn't my *opinion* that Kubiak has hired two failed defensive coordinators, that is fact. Historically bad defense, even, despite drafting for that side of the ball several years in a row. Underdeveloped talent would be an understatement.

It isn't my *opinion* that Kubiak's game prep has been miserable this season, that is fact. What is it now, 8-9 games with 7 or fewer points in the first half? Maybe more? That isn't even counting the defense.

It isn't my *opinion* that Kubiak often relies on Matt Schaub too much while ignoring Arian Foster, 5 second half carries vs. Denver, only a handful vs. the Colts when he's going for 8 ypc? Those aren't facts?

It isn't my *opinion* that Gary has a bad record in challenges. He is among the NFL's worst all time. That is fact.

Yeah...... but other than that...

:kitten:

thunderkyss
12-29-2010, 06:32 PM
I'm waiting for you to make a decent, logical, fact based argument in defense of Gary Kubiak.

Keep waiting. There isn't one.

Let's imagine McNair decides to keep Kubiak, with a completely new defensive staff.

Can you think of a logical reason McNair would do that? Or do you think it would be based solely on his fondness of Kubiak?

I ask this because I find it illogical that McNair would make a decision with out good reason, simply because he "likes" the guy.

I'm with you, it doesn't make sense to keep Kubiak. I believe he's shown some good qualities, & some ability, but nothing that justifies keeping him. If he were to leave Houston, I can't imagine anyone giving him another shot at the HC gig right away.

Unless they believe the stats (I'm thinking outloud here). Unless there is a team with the worst offense in the league who likes what Kubiak has done to get us to this point. I could see maybe the Panthers, maybe the Cardinals...... give Kubiak a few years to get them on "the right track" then ditching him if it doesn't look like he's learned his lesson here about winning.

But for this team, where we are right now, I'm not seeing it.

Pantherstang84
12-29-2010, 06:35 PM
Let's imagine McNair decides to keep Kubiak, with a completely new defensive staff.

Can you think of a logical reason McNair would do that? Or do you think it would be based solely on his fondness of Kubiak?

I ask this because I find it illogical that McNair would make a decision with out good reason, simply because he "likes" the guy.

I'm with you, it doesn't make sense to keep Kubiak. I believe he's shown some good qualities, & some ability, but nothing that justifies keeping him. If he were to leave Houston, I can't imagine anyone giving him another shot at the HC gig right away.

Unless they believe the stats (I'm thinking outloud here). Unless there is a team with the worst offense in the league who likes what Kubiak has done to get us to this point. I could see maybe the Panthers, maybe the Cardinals...... give Kubiak a few years to get them on "the right track" then ditching him if it doesn't look like he's learned his lesson here about winning.

But for this team, where we are right now, I'm not seeing it.

The main reason is this.

GuerillaBlack
12-29-2010, 06:37 PM
McNair wants so desperately for Kubiak, a Houston native (born and raised) to be the savior for the Texans and lead us to multiple championships. McNair wants that Disney type story. The problem is, it's not happening. Kubiak is done here and if McNair keeps Kubiak another year, it will show he doesn't get it. If you want to be like the Steelers McNair, go out and hire a guy that was the head coach for them for 15 years.

Ghostform
12-29-2010, 06:46 PM
McNair wants so desperately for Kubiak, a Houston native (born and raised) to be the savior for the Texans and lead us to multiple championships. McNair wants that Disney type story. The problem is, it's not happening. Kubiak is done here and if McNair keeps Kubiak another year, it will show he doesn't get it. If you want to be like the Steelers McNair, go out and hire a guy that was the head coach for them for 15 years.

I pictured Kubiak trying on a glass slipper that is too small and McNair is desperately trying to force his foot in.

HoustonFrog
12-29-2010, 06:48 PM
Let's imagine McNair decides to keep Kubiak, with a completely new defensive staff.

Can you think of a logical reason McNair would do that? Or do you think it would be based solely on his fondness of Kubiak?

I ask this because I find it illogical that McNair would make a decision with out good reason, simply because he "likes" the guy.

I'm with you, it doesn't make sense to keep Kubiak. I believe he's shown some good qualities, & some ability, but nothing that justifies keeping him. If he were to leave Houston, I can't imagine anyone giving him another shot at the HC gig right away.

Unless they believe the stats (I'm thinking outloud here). Unless there is a team with the worst offense in the league who likes what Kubiak has done to get us to this point. I could see maybe the Panthers, maybe the Cardinals...... give Kubiak a few years to get them on "the right track" then ditching him if it doesn't look like he's learned his lesson here about winning.

But for this team, where we are right now, I'm not seeing it.

Yes to the bolded. He showed how illogical he was with Carr and now he is doing it with Kubes. The guy has zero football IQ and goes on what feels good...good people. Sorry but how can he not have learned a lesson with Carr? I also am not sure why this town loves to hold onto people beyond their expiration...Biggio, Bagwell, Carr, Kubiak. At least the first two were icons. But at some point winners make changes. It is the tough decisions that the Pats make yearly while they cut guys before they crash and then fill in. The difference between winners and losers.

GuerillaBlack
12-29-2010, 06:48 PM
"Bob, the Houston Texans are freaking winners!!"

-Kubiak after a 9-7 season.

Where else in the league would you see this? Maybe the Lions.

ThaShark316
12-29-2010, 06:49 PM
Rumor:

McNair likes the idea of Cowher, isn't sure if he'll come here.


EDIT:

Albert Breer (NFL N, via twitter)
Hearing that Houston owner Bob McNair likes the idea of having Bill Cowher there, but isn't convinced that Cowher would come to Texans. ...

Albert Breer (NFL N, via twitter)... Does NOT mean Kubiak's out. In fact, McNair may hesitate to do anything if he can't land him, since he'd then likely turn back to Kubiak

GuerillaBlack
12-29-2010, 06:49 PM
Rumor:

McNair likes the idea of Cowher, isn't sure if he'll come here.

Real rumor? Or is it time to spread this one and make it a damn rumor?

Carr Bombed
12-29-2010, 06:52 PM
"Bob, the Houston Texans are freaking winners!!"

-Kubiak after a 9-7 season.

Where else in the league would you see this? Maybe the Lions.

And that was the moment that Stupiak jumped the shark with me. I was done with him after he celebrated mediocrity and was ashamed at our owner for lapping it up. It was flat out embarrassing.