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View Full Version : Does anyone actually want Kubiak to stay?


kiwitexansfan
12-27-2010, 12:02 PM
I for one would like to see him stay if he brings in a new proven DC.

I am the only one?

And no I am not going to argue against the whole board as to why.

Maddict5
12-27-2010, 12:04 PM
id be fine with giving him one last chance once there were changes on the D side

Yankee_In_TX
12-27-2010, 12:08 PM
And a GM who picked the players the GM wanted and not the guys Kubiak wants.

Texanmike02
12-27-2010, 12:09 PM
I wanted him to stay until the last two weeks. I do think he will go on to be a successful HC somewhere but he needs to be fired once first. Yeah, I know that sounds funny, and maybe ignorant but its like a teenager learning that his friends will get him in trouble... it usually takes getting burned pretty badly before it sinks in.

The only way I'd see him stay is if a DC is brought in with a title like Assistant HC or something but I think we're beyond that point. I didn't see the game yesterday (traveling... I know... first game I've missed that I was actually able to view in history... shame on me) but to me the team looks like they've quit on him. That is pretty much the end of the line if you ask me.

Mike

FirstTexansFan
12-27-2010, 12:09 PM
I appreciate both you guys standing up for what you believe is good for the team, but I believe he's had his chance, the blame lies squarely at his feet, and he needs to go. Will I abandon this team if they don't let him go? I doubt it, I'm inherently a masochist :)

bckey
12-27-2010, 12:19 PM
TK will be here shortly.

ChampionTexan
12-27-2010, 12:21 PM
I for one would like to see him stay if he brings in a new proven DC.

I am the only one?

And no I am not going to argue against the whole board as to why.

I won't argue either, I'll just say that assuming Kubiak stays - it's going to be extremely difficult to attract a "proven" DC.

Hookem Horns
12-27-2010, 12:23 PM
At this point I don't think Kubiak even wants to stay. If Bob does not make a move this team will be a bigger joke than it is now. There are teams firing their coaches right now with less reasons.

DerekLee1
12-27-2010, 12:23 PM
I think Kubiak should be traded to Denver for a 2nd rounder.

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2010, 12:23 PM
I am not passionate about Kubiak, just as I am not as passionate about the Texans I once was. I really do not care if he stays, but if he does I want a new GM, DC and ST coach.

Maddict5
12-27-2010, 12:26 PM
I am not passionate about Kubiak, just as I am not as passionate about the Texans I once was. I really do not care if he stays, but if he does I want a new GM, DC and ST coach.

say it aint so joe?:kitten:

markn
12-27-2010, 12:28 PM
On balance, I think he's had enough time and needs to go, but I do feel that his potential is unfulfilled.

If I could be certain that he'd hire an experienced DC as opposed to one of his buddies from Denver, I'd have a modicum of interest in keeping him. But to be honest, he's already failed that test.

I still have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that he's going to be successful if we get rid of him.

Pantherstang84
12-27-2010, 12:33 PM
At this point I don't think Kubiak even wants to stay. If Bob does not make a move this team will be a bigger joke than it is now. There are teams firing their coaches right now with less reasons.

I picked up on that vibe yesterday from the tone of his voice during the press interviews.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-27-2010, 12:33 PM
Kubiak needs to go. Who do you think brought Richard Smith and Frank Bush here? What makes you believe he will get it right with another DC?

kiwitexansfan
12-27-2010, 12:33 PM
TK will be here shortly.

I'm not sure TK is still pro-Kubiak.

Maddict5
12-27-2010, 12:34 PM
I still have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that he's going to be successful if we get rid of him.

agreed on that. there is quite a bit of potential greatness on this team if they could ever put it together... and although kubiak rightfully gets blame for not doing it, i think a significant part of that is to do with the 'other' players we have not doing their jobs

Norg
12-27-2010, 12:37 PM
I do but hes not doing a good job on keeping a case for him to stay

i mean two 4 game losing streaks ouch

5-11 ouch !!!!!!!!!!

I wanted him to stay but wasent these last 4 games a test for him well hes falling that so far

Ranger Tom
12-27-2010, 12:42 PM
I don't think you'll find anyone on here who enjoyed the fifth annual mid-season, four-game losing streak, let alone anyone who looks forward to the sixth.

infantrycak
12-27-2010, 12:42 PM
I'm kind of like KT - I won't be hopping mad if a new coach is brought in and I won't be hopping made if Kubiak stays with caveats on both. I am not in the anybody but Kubiak club. I really dislike Gruden and don't see Fox as an improvement as HC. If they could land Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Harbaugh then that's fine. If Kubiak stays at a minimum Bush and Gibbs need to leave and I would prefer a new GM as well. I am most interested in seeing a proven DC brought in either way.

Texanmike02
12-27-2010, 12:46 PM
I'm kind of like KT - I won't be hopping mad if a new coach is brought in and I won't be hopping made if Kubiak stays with caveats on both. I am not in the anybody but Kubiak club. I really dislike Gruden and don't see Fox as an improvement as HC. If they could land Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Harbaugh then that's fine. If Kubiak stays at a minimum Bush and Gibbs need to leave and I would prefer a new GM as well. I am most interested in seeing a proven DC brought in either way.


Cak, for the first time in history, you voiced my opinion exactly.

Mike

Lucky
12-27-2010, 12:46 PM
I won't argue either, I'll just say that assuming Kubiak stays - it's going to be extremely difficult to attract a "proven" DC.
Really. It's just so laughable to me that a decent GM and/or DC would come here to work with Kubiak. There's the Grand Canyon hole in the Keep Kubiak clubs's logic.

Maddict5
12-27-2010, 12:51 PM
Really. It's just so laughable to me that a decent GM and/or DC would come here to work with Kubiak. There's the Grand Canyon hole in the Keep Kubiak clubs's logic.

why? happened with the saints and others

if mcnair tells kubiak he has to get a proven DC, i think kubiak will do that. hell he might even want to himself after watching the last few weeks

infantrycak
12-27-2010, 12:52 PM
Really. It's just so laughable to me that a decent GM and/or DC would come here to work with Kubiak. There's the Grand Canyon hole in the Keep Kubiak clubs's logic.

I don't think it is laughable at all. John Fox is going to be looking for a DC position most likely. Manusky in San Fran might not be retained by a new HC. Quite the opposite I don't think Kubiak exerts much control on the D and that would be a positive for a prospective DC. But it is all speculation either way.

kiwitexansfan
12-27-2010, 01:00 PM
A good DC who has ambitions towards HC may want to come here so he can ninja the job if Kubiak fails next year.

ChampionTexan
12-27-2010, 01:03 PM
A good DC who has ambitions towards HC may want to come here so he can ninja the job if Kubiak fails next year.

Which leads me to the question of what proven DC is out there looking for a new gig who you would want as our next HC?

Lucky
12-27-2010, 01:03 PM
I don't think it is laughable at all.
What DC will want to take a job where the head coach is on a flaming hot seat? Where's the job security? John Fox will field better, more secure offers. Coordinators want to go to winning teams. The success of these teams make owners believe that it's due in some part to the coordinator. The Texans under Gary Kubiak cannot be considered a winning team.

Furthermore, what GM will want to inherit Kubiak as head coach? Someone desperate for any job, ala a Casserly, who will tell McNair anything he wants to hear. In other words, another failure.

steelbtexan
12-27-2010, 01:07 PM
I want his a** fired.

It's so tiring watching the same old crap yr after yr.

ChampionTexan
12-27-2010, 01:11 PM
I don't think it is laughable at all. John Fox is going to be looking for a DC position most likely. Manusky in San Fran might not be retained by a new HC. Quite the opposite I don't think Kubiak exerts much control on the D and that would be a positive for a prospective DC. But it is all speculation either way.

I just believe that given the tenuous ground that Kubiak would be on if he were retained for 2011, anybody having options would place the Texans at or near the bottom of the list. Don't know what teams will be looking for a new DC, but I believe most "new regimes" as well as most situations where the former DC has been successful enough to get a HC gig would be preferable to taking over a historically bad defense on a team who's entire coaching staff and front office may be on short leashes.

Marcus
12-27-2010, 01:13 PM
For some perspective.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3217121&sportCat=nfl

What if.

What if Belichick had answered his phone on Valentine's Day 1996, and it was Modell calling not to fire him as Cleveland Browns head coach, but to invite him to join the franchise in its new home in Baltimore?

What if Modell had stood by his vow of Nov. 8, 1995, when he said, "Bill Belichick will be my head coach in 1996''?

What if Belichick's team hadn't lost six of its last seven games after that vow, or hadn't finished the season 5-11 after being picked by some experts to reach the Super Bowl? So much of who and what Belichick is today as head coach of the fabulously successful New England Patriots can be traced to who and what he was as head coach of the mostly unsuccessful Browns. There are such stark differences between the two tenures, and yet Belichick remains essentially the same person, just not entirely the same coach."The Browns were his training camp, his boot camp for success,'' said Mary Kay Cabot, the beat reporter who covered Belichick and the Browns for the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
"There were mistakes he made here on players, personnel, staff, public relations. But he's the master of adjustments. He learned how to do it right by everything he did wrong here.''Nearly 12 years ago, when Modell took only a few minutes to fire Belichick over the phone, the decision was hailed as necessary and inevitable. An Akron columnist pithily wrote, "Bill Belichick's five-year reign of error is over.''

What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?

Not saying it's gonna happen ... but if it does, there will be big boatload of people who wanted Kubiak to be fired today, that will come back and invent revisionist history and say they wanted him to stay.

I dunno . . I just have this gut feeling that we haven't heard the end of Gary Kubiak, the "mediocre coach".

And yeah . . . to echo someone else, I think even he wants to leave now, and has probably even told McNair that.

Hookem Horns
12-27-2010, 01:17 PM
Why in the world would anyone want this guy to stay? I thought he was a good OC however I am changing my mind about that. His offenses put up stats however fold when it counts.

The dude is also horrible at playcalling. He tries to get to cute and "outsmart" his opponents when he should be doing something else more obvious like running the ball against the Colts in that 2nd game for example.

The bottom line is the guy isn't providing a winning atmosphere/culture around here and no DC is going to change that. If you are going to hire John Fox make him the HC. Why waste a season having him wait for Kubiak to get fired?

Hookem Horns
12-27-2010, 01:20 PM
What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?



If he goes to another team, cheats and wins then good for him. For the record, Belichick won a playoff game in Cleveland. So it wasn't like he was a total failure like Kubiak has been here.

DexmanC
12-27-2010, 01:24 PM
Ya'll already got a season and a half of my answer.
:fans::fans::fans::fans:

DerekLee1
12-27-2010, 01:24 PM
Which leads me to the question of what proven DC is out there looking for a new gig who you would want as our next HC?

John Fox, Marvin Lewis, Jerry Gray, Wade Phillips.

ChampionTexan
12-27-2010, 01:27 PM
John Fox, Marvin Lewis, Jerry Gray, Wade Phillips.

That kind of makes my point. Fox might be okay, but I think the chances of getting him are very small. The rest of the guys are no better than what we have now.

Lucky
12-27-2010, 01:28 PM
What if Belichick had answered his phone on Valentine's Day 1996, and it was Modell calling not to fire him as Cleveland Browns head coach, but to invite him to join the franchise in its new home in Baltimore?The Browns (as the Ravens) won Super Bowl XXXV a year prior to the Belichick-led Pats winning Super Bowl XXXVI. I don't see your point, unless it's to say that building a strong personnel department, as the Ravens have had under Ozzie Newsome, and the Pats have enjoyed under Belichick/Pioli, is the key.

Actually, I don't think Kubiak and Smith have done a horrible job of selecting talent. Which is why the Texans coaching vacancy will be such a hot commodity. Kubiak just doesn't know how to be a head coach. Why some believe that knowledge will magically appear is beyond me.

Maddict5
12-27-2010, 01:29 PM
What DC will want to take a job where the head coach is on a flaming hot seat? Where's the job security? John Fox will field better, more secure offers. Coordinators want to go to winning teams. The success of these teams make owners believe that it's due in some part to the coordinator. The Texans under Gary Kubiak cannot be considered a winning team.

Furthermore, what GM will want to inherit Kubiak as head coach? Someone desperate for any job, ala a Casserly, who will tell McNair anything he wants to hear. In other words, another failure.

why wouldnt a DC with HC aspirations take the job (eg fox)?

if kubiak does get fired, who always gets first dibs on the interim role, especially if they are former HC's?

if the team does really well due to the defence playing good ball and goes from 5-11 to 11-5, doesnt that new co-ordinator who got all the talented parts to finally play well as a unit automatically become the hottest prospective HC hire for every team looking for a HC?

DerekLee1
12-27-2010, 01:30 PM
That kind of makes my point. Fox might be okay, but I think the chances of getting him are very small. The rest of the guys are no better than what we have now.

Disagree. They've proven they can coach the hell out of a defense. Let 'em take over and pull a Gruden: that is, taking over a team built by a better talent evaluator and winning a SB with it.

gary
12-27-2010, 01:32 PM
It is a different story but the same ending every year. Enough is enough. I am done with the whole staff.

Maddict5
12-27-2010, 01:32 PM
Ya'll already got a season and a half of my answer.
:fans::fans::fans::fans:

ya we all still remember the overnight schizophrenic shift from kubiaks biggest defender to his biggest detractor

ChampionTexan
12-27-2010, 01:37 PM
Disagree. They've proven they can coach the hell out of a defense. Let 'em take over and pull a Gruden: that is, taking over a team built by a better talent evaluator and winning a SB with it.

So you're saying that if we were to go ahead and hire Wade Phillips, Marvin Lewis or Jerry Gray to replace Kubiak and skip the DC step - you'd be excited about that?

Lucky
12-27-2010, 01:38 PM
why wouldnt a DC with HC aspirations take the job (eg fox)?
So the new DC comes in angling for Kubiak's job? That's gotta be good for team chemistry.

Why are so many bending over backwards to keep Kubiak? There's no scenario in retaining Kubiak that makes sense.

DerekLee1
12-27-2010, 01:38 PM
So you're saying that if we were to go ahead and hire Wade Phillips, Marvin Lewis or Jerry Gray to replace Kubiak and skip the DC step - you'd be excited about that?

Depends on who'd be running the offense.

DexmanC
12-27-2010, 01:43 PM
ya we all still remember the overnight schizophrenic shift from kubiaks biggest defender to his biggest detractor

Once you leave KubiYAK, you never go back.

Maddict5
12-27-2010, 01:50 PM
So the new DC comes in angling for Kubiak's job? That's gotta be good for team chemistry.

Why are so many bending over backwards to keep Kubiak? There's no scenario in retaining Kubiak that makes sense.

it makes sense to keep this offence in place.

the new dc comes in knowing theres talent on this D and if they get the unit playing well, they'll be back in every conversation for a HC gig... either here or elsewhere

Marcus
12-27-2010, 01:58 PM
The Browns (as the Ravens) won Super Bowl XXXV a year prior to the Belichick-led Pats winning Super Bowl XXXVI. I don't see your point, unless it's to say that building a strong personnel department, as the Ravens have had under Ozzie Newsome, and the Pats have enjoyed under Belichick/Pioli, is the key.

Actually, I don't think Kubiak and Smith have done a horrible job of selecting talent. Which is why the Texans coaching vacancy will be such a hot commodity. Kubiak just doesn't know how to be a head coach. Why some believe that knowledge will magically appear is beyond me.

What does magic have to do with it?

"He learned how to do it right by everything he did wrong here."

Mr. White
12-27-2010, 02:14 PM
Seems like the people that want him to stay want a new GM and a new DC.

Does anyone actually think Kubiak would want to stay if he doesn't have any control over personnel and doesn't have any say over the defense?

Kaiser Toro
12-27-2010, 02:19 PM
Seems like the people that want him to stay want a new GM and a new DC.

Does anyone actually think Kubiak would want to stay if he doesn't have any control over personnel and doesn't have any say over the defense?

Nope, but that gets his team mobilized to have trade talks with the Broncos. I would hold on to Kubiak, with a reassignment, should he not want to play ball.

My gut says McNair rolls over softly by allowing him to go, and gets nothing for Kubiak.

Hookem Horns
12-27-2010, 02:19 PM
Seems like the people that want him to stay want a new GM and a new DC.


:kubepalm:

Just look at it this way. We will be able to bump these threads a couple of seasons from now and make fun of them like we have done with the Carr and Capers threads.

thunderkyss
12-27-2010, 02:35 PM
I didn't see the game yesterday (traveling... I know... first game I've missed that I was actually able to view in history... shame on me) but to me the team looks like they've quit on him. That is pretty much the end of the line if you ask me.

Mike

I definitely don't get the feeling that the team quit on him. Not at all.

I don't want Kubiak to stay.

What I want is for him to learn his lesson. Last year, the guys played their butts off, & we lost almost every game by one play..... we had lots of mistakes & goof ups that we had to over come, but we were still less than 6 points from winning all but the Jets game, & that was because we played hard & aggressive every down.

This year, we're several plays away from winning several games. We goof up & can't dig ourselves out of holes we dug early.

IMHO, last years team just needed to get better at making plays. Instead, he took that team & castrated them. Had them play conservative, where every mistake is magnified.

Yesterday's game was the epitome of it all. We came out conservative, put the throttle on the floor in the second Qtr, then went conservative the rest of the way.... Then with 3 minutes to go.... we start airing the ball out.... actually the possession before that. 10 minutes left in the game. We're up by 6, 5 passes, 2 runs. 3 incomplete passes, one check down, not one screen, not one draw........

But he's been doing the same thing for 5 years.. not knowing when to slow a game down.... not knowing when to speed it up.....

Denver's defense is/was worse than ours.

If he's going to learn his lesson, he'd have learned it by now.

Surreal McCoy
12-27-2010, 02:44 PM
I wanted him to stay until the last two weeks. I do think he will go on to be a successful HC somewhere but he needs to be fired once first. Yeah, I know that sounds funny, and maybe ignorant but its like a teenager learning that his friends will get him in trouble... it usually takes getting burned pretty badly before it sinks in.

The only way I'd see him stay is if a DC is brought in with a title like Assistant HC or something but I think we're beyond that point. I didn't see the game yesterday (traveling... I know... first game I've missed that I was actually able to view in history... shame on me) but to me the team looks like they've quit on him. That is pretty much the end of the line if you ask me.

Mike

That is exactly how I feel! Thanks for saving me the trouble - great post :)

houstonspartan
12-27-2010, 02:47 PM
For some perspective.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3217121&sportCat=nfl



What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?

Not saying it's gonna happen ... but if it does, there will be big boatload of people who wanted Kubiak to be fired today, that will come back and invent revisionist history and say they wanted him to stay.

I dunno . . I just have this gut feeling that we haven't heard the end of Gary Kubiak, the "mediocre coach".

And yeah . . . to echo someone else, I think even he wants to leave now, and has probably even told McNair that.

Give me a break. Belichick had to be fired in Cleveland. When a person is fired, there's usually a time of reflection on what went wrong. As long as Gary stays here he will be enabled, thinking that he hasn't done anything wrong. He needs to be fired in order for him to "get it." If, after getting fired, he goes on and becomes a legendary coach, good for him. But as a fan of this team, I'm not going to sacrifice the future in order for someone to finally "get it."

Double Barrel
12-27-2010, 02:58 PM
So let me get this straight for reasons to keep Kubiak:

Tom Landry had five losing seasons when he started as a HC. Forget about different era, the lack of free agency and salary cap, and the little fact that Landry was a football genius, all we need to know is that he went five years without winning to justify supporting another year of Kubiak.

And the other is Belichick with the Browns, that somehow Gary will transform into a great football mind and motivator that he never showed even an ounce of having as a head coach of the Texans for five seasons.

Okay, those are the reasons.

And I'd like to point out that for every Tom Landry and Bill Belichick, I can show HUNDREDS of head coaches that achieved none of the above. Coaches that got five years and still lost with their second (and third) teams. And coaches that sucked at one team and still sucked at another.

The REASONS why Landry and Belichick are used as examples because they are UNIQUE in these accomplishments. And the reason that these examples are UNIQUE are directly due to the great football minds of both men.

Kubiak is way too mediocre to even be in the same conversation, yet I see people reaching for this logic time and time again. Mind boggling to read from smart football fans. Anyone expecting hidden greatness in Gary Kubiak might as well wait for the federal government to abolish the income tax.

Pantherstang84
12-27-2010, 03:05 PM
For some perspective.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3217121&sportCat=nfl



What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?

Not saying it's gonna happen ... but if it does, there will be big boatload of people who wanted Kubiak to be fired today, that will come back and invent revisionist history and say they wanted him to stay.

I dunno . . I just have this gut feeling that we haven't heard the end of Gary Kubiak, the "mediocre coach".

And yeah . . . to echo someone else, I think even he wants to leave now, and has probably even told McNair that.

Ok. Let's kill the revisionist history right now...

I ,Pantherstang84, do hereby proclaim that I firmly believe on 12/27/2010 that Gary Kubiak, current head coach of the Houston Texans, should be dismissed from his current duties as head coach. I do not proclaim this with malice in my heart or being. I proclaim it due to my belief that both the Houston Texans and Gary Kubiak need to separate so that they may grow respectively. I also make the following stipulations:

1. If Kubiak eventually becomes a legendary head coach winning multiple Super Bowls with another organization, that I will not now or ever claim that I did not want Kubiak dismissed from his current duties as Texans head coach.

2. I am fully aware that this post and its contents will be saved for historical accuracy.

I encourage my fellow board members who want Kubiak dismissed to cosign this post so the revisionist history claims may be extinguished in the future.

Signed,

Pantherstang84
12/27/2010

Rey
12-27-2010, 03:06 PM
I definitely don't get the feeling that the team quit on him. Not at all.

I don't want Kubiak to stay.

What I want is for him to learn his lesson. Last year, the guys played their butts off, & we lost almost every game by one play..... we had lots of mistakes & goof ups that we had to over come, but we were still less than 6 points from winning all but the Jets game, & that was because we played hard & aggressive every down.

This year, we're several plays away from winning several games. We goof up & can't dig ourselves out of holes we dug early.

IMHO, last years team just needed to get better at making plays. Instead, he took that team & castrated them. Had them play conservative, where every mistake is magnified.

Yesterday's game was the epitome of it all. We came out conservative, put the throttle on the floor in the second Qtr, then went conservative the rest of the way.... Then with 3 minutes to go.... we start airing the ball out.... actually the possession before that. 10 minutes left in the game. We're up by 6, 5 passes, 2 runs. 3 incomplete passes, one check down, not one screen, not one draw........

But he's been doing the same thing for 5 years.. not knowing when to slow a game down.... not knowing when to speed it up.....

Denver's defense is/was worse than ours.

If he's going to learn his lesson, he'd have learned it by now.

I think that is too much analysis TK.

He's just not a good head coach right now. And that is really all that matters.

kiwitexansfan
12-27-2010, 03:07 PM
Seems like the people that want him to stay want a new GM and a new DC.

Does anyone actually think Kubiak would want to stay if he doesn't have any control over personnel and doesn't have any say over the defense?

FWIW, I want to keep the GM the same, he has done a decent job.

I just want an independent DC to do his thing.

Mr. White
12-27-2010, 03:07 PM
I don't care what Kubiak does with his next team.

Brad Lidge had to go somewhere else to win a World Series. We all knew he wouldn't do it here.

thunderkyss
12-27-2010, 04:24 PM
I'm not sure TK is still pro-Kubiak.

I'm pro Texans..... check my posts, I've never said anything specifically positive about wanting Kubiak to be the Texans head coach. All I've ever said this year, was wait till the end of the season.

There's been plenty of opportunity to turn this thing around. Other posters just turned out to be right, & it didn't happen.

I'll tell what Kubiak has done well, & in my mind, he's done many things well. But the games we lost...... I don't think it was any more on the players, or the defense, or the injuries, or the refs, any more for our team than for any other team. The Patriots are just as young as we are in the secondary, they've made just as many "mistakes", the Colts have had to deal with injuries, so has many of the other teams that have beat us, the Chargers for instance.

The Cowboys were just waiting for someone to put them out of their misery, & we breath new life into their season.....

I don't want Kubiak gone. I don't want Kubiak to stay. I do find it hard to believe that winning is the #1 thing on his mind. I do find it hard to believe that winning will be his primary goal in 2011. I do find it hard to believe that he'll finally put it all together if he's given the opportunity to here in Houston.

I'm not going to act like every decision I've ever made was a winner. I'm not going to act like I didn't like the hire 5 years ago. I'm not going to act like I could have done this better than McNair has........... I'd have done it, if I could.

I'll be rooting for the Texans on Jan 2nd, & I'll be rooting for the Texans in 2011.

thunderkyss
12-27-2010, 04:35 PM
I just believe that given the tenuous ground that Kubiak would be on if he were retained for 2011, anybody having options would place the Texans at or near the bottom of the list.

Yet Bill Cowher wants this job???

If I'm a John Fox, or a Rex Ryan, I'd be all in. I'd be thinking I'm a bad game away from a head coaching gig.

HoustonFrog
12-27-2010, 04:45 PM
So let me get this straight for reasons to keep Kubiak:

Tom Landry had five losing seasons when he started as a HC. Forget about different era, the lack of free agency and salary cap, and the little fact that Landry was a football genius, all we need to know is that he went five years without winning to justify supporting another year of Kubiak.

And the other is Belichick with the Browns, that somehow Gary will transform into a great football mind and motivator that he never showed even an ounce of having as a head coach of the Texans for five seasons.

Okay, those are the reasons.

And I'd like to point out that for every Tom Landry and Bill Belichick, I can show HUNDREDS of head coaches that achieved none of the above. Coaches that got five years and still lost with their second (and third) teams. And coaches that sucked at one team and still sucked at another.

The REASONS why Landry and Belichick are used as examples because they are UNIQUE in these accomplishments. And the reason that these examples are UNIQUE are directly due to the great football minds of both men.

Kubiak is way too mediocre to even be in the same conversation, yet I see people reaching for this logic time and time again. Mind boggling to read from smart football fans. Anyone expecting hidden greatness in Gary Kubiak might as well wait for the federal government to abolish the income tax.

Not only all of this but HE PICKED THE LAST 2 DEFENSIVE COORDINATORS!!!!

I mean what else do people want? Is he sprinkling magic pixie dust on you at night?

A new D Coordinator or GM doesn't solve the issue of him not preparing a team for a full 60 minutes. It doesn't solve the issue of him not running the top RB in the league when he needs to...5 times in the second half yesterday(just a few of his head scratchers weekly). These things don't solve him wasting timeouts and challenges.

Also, STOP the Bellichick talk. The guy came from a winning coaching tree that was shown to be successful in many sitations. As of right now it looks like the Shanahan coaching tree consisted on having John Elway.

All this talk is ludicrous.

CharloTex
12-27-2010, 04:47 PM
At this point I don't think Kubiak even wants to stay. If Bob does not make a move this team will be a bigger joke than it is now. There are teams firing their coaches right now with less reasons.

That should be "fewer reasons." Sorry, this is my personal pet peeve.

Generally, use "less" with singular things, or things of bulk, that can't reasonably be counted, like love, hatred, or grain in the silo. Use "fewer" with things that can be counted, like marbles, footballs, grains of sand.

Oh, and I want less Kubiak (and one fewer Kubiaks) on the Texans' coaching staff next year.

thunderkyss
12-27-2010, 04:54 PM
For some perspective.....
What if.

What if Belichick had answered his phone on Valentine's Day 1996, and it was Modell calling not to fire him as Cleveland Browns head coach, but to invite him to join the franchise in its new home in Baltimore?

What if Modell had stood by his vow of Nov. 8, 1995, when he said, "Bill Belichick will be my head coach in 1996''?

What if Belichick's team hadn't lost six of its last seven games after that vow, or hadn't finished the season 5-11 after being picked by some experts to reach the Super Bowl? So much of who and what Belichick is today as head coach of the fabulously successful New England Patriots can be traced to who and what he was as head coach of the mostly unsuccessful Browns. There are such stark differences between the two tenures, and yet Belichick remains essentially the same person, just not entirely the same coach."The Browns were his training camp, his boot camp for success,'' said Mary Kay Cabot, the beat reporter who covered Belichick and the Browns for the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
"There were mistakes he made here on players, personnel, staff, public relations. But he's the master of adjustments. He learned how to do it right by everything he did wrong here.''Nearly 12 years ago, when Modell took only a few minutes to fire Belichick over the phone, the decision was hailed as necessary and inevitable. An Akron columnist pithily wrote, "Bill Belichick's five-year reign of error is over.''
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3217121&sportCat=nfl



What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?

Not saying it's gonna happen ... but if it does, there will be big boatload of people who wanted Kubiak to be fired today, that will come back and invent revisionist history and say they wanted him to stay.

I dunno . . I just have this gut feeling that we haven't heard the end of Gary Kubiak, the "mediocre coach".

And yeah . . . to echo someone else, I think even he wants to leave now, and has probably even told McNair that.

Do you think Belichick would have been as successful had he stayed with the Ravens? I'm thinking the other side of the franchise, the New England Patriots had as much to do with the success of Belichick as Belichick has to do with the Success of the New England Patriots. Just like Tom Brady...... had he been Art Shell's sixth round pick back in the day, we'd have no idea who he is today.

So it is with Kubiak. If he's going to be successful, this free reign thing he's got going on in Houston is obviously not conducive to allowing him to be the best he is capable of (if he is actually capable of more).

Something's gotta change. Either someone comes to Houston and allow him to focus on what he's obviously not focused on here, or he's got to go somewhere else, with the "right" environment for him.

Buffi2
12-27-2010, 05:17 PM
Kubiak lost me completely when he answered the question about why, he thought, the Texans didn't play a full game. His answer was, "I don't know."

I taught for a hundred years and when you don't know what is wrong with a class' performance/behavior/whatever - you need to stop teaching. You may not be able to totally solve the problem but you sure as hell better know what the problem is and at least start to fix it.

For everyone's sake, Kubiak needs to sit down and seriously figure out what it is about his coaching style that is exacerbating the problems rather than fixing them. And he needs to start over somewhere else after he does that. Just like in a classroom, you can't go backwards and start over in the middle of the year with the same class. He isn't doing anyone any good here - not himself, not the players, not the team, not the fans.

This is not only for the good of the Texans, it is for his own good.

If he becomes the next Bill Belichick I, for one, will be happy for him. He is a good guy, I like him and hope he finds success somewhere. I just don't think it can be here.

GuerillaBlack
12-27-2010, 05:30 PM
For some perspective.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3217121&sportCat=nfl



What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?

Not saying it's gonna happen ... but if it does, there will be big boatload of people who wanted Kubiak to be fired today, that will come back and invent revisionist history and say they wanted him to stay.

I dunno . . I just have this gut feeling that we haven't heard the end of Gary Kubiak, the "mediocre coach".

And yeah . . . to echo someone else, I think even he wants to leave now, and has probably even told McNair that.

What makes people believe this will happen? What do you see in Kubiak that has a "Bill Belichick in him? Belichick at least made the playoffs and posted an 11-5 record.

Thorn
12-27-2010, 05:38 PM
I want Kubiak gone. I associate the miserableness of the Texans with him and would like to see a fresh start, even if it means a rebuild.

And if he goes on to have success elsewhere, more power to him. I don't care, I just want him gone.

TexCanada
12-27-2010, 05:39 PM
I want Kubiak gone. I associate the miserableness of the Texans with him and would like to see a fresh start, even if it means a rebuild.

And if he goes on to have success elsewhere, more power to him. I don't care, I just want him gone.

Amen to this.

GNTLEWOLF
12-27-2010, 05:48 PM
Does anyone actually want Kubiak to stay?

Unfortunately.....unless something has changed, Bob McNair does.
You can read the responses from the kubiak faithful and know what McNair is thinking on the subject. It looks like We may get a new DC. Once again, it will be too late when McNair finally does come to his senses....this time about two years too late.

TheMatrix31
12-27-2010, 06:06 PM
I don't really want Kubiak to stay. He's had far too long to shore up basic game management-type stuff. Clock management never got corrected, and neither has his ability to recognize what to do and when to do it. Those are my biggest problems with him.

However, the new guy must maintain our offense. I'm sure he will, he'd be stupid to tinker with something that is our strong suit to begin with.

We need to gain positive consistency. We're already consistent. Consistently playing halves of games. Consistently doing stupid stuff.

I hope we can find the right guy.

Mr. White
12-27-2010, 06:19 PM
Does anyone actually want Kubiak to stay?

Unfortunately.....unless something has changed, Bob McNair does.


It sure seems to me like something's changed. These guys all seem to be going through the motions ever since the Ravens loss.

The past couple of Kubiak press conferences didn't look like a guy who was feeling too confident about keeping his job.

Then again, maybe McNair's vote of confidence a couple of weeks ago may have been just that. He talked up Carr a few weeks before he cut him loose too.

Double Barrel
12-27-2010, 06:23 PM
Kubiak is gone by next Monday. No way can McNair try to rationalize away losing 8 out of the past 9 games after a 4-2 start. No way can he not see the obvious fact that Kubiak is just not going to get it done with the Texans. I just can't believe the man is that stubborn to continue with the Path of Fail until it leads his entire franchise off a cliff. Until our owner proves otherwise, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not a stupid man

JB
12-27-2010, 06:26 PM
Does anyone actually want Kubiak to stay? Yep!










Kubiak does. Just saw him on 13 news. He wants to stay, but looked and sounded like he know he is gone. Said Bob pays me for wins and that he understands this is a business.

TheMatrix31
12-27-2010, 06:26 PM
It sure seems to me like something's changed. These guys all seem to be going through the motions ever since the Ravens loss.

The past couple of Kubiak press conferences didn't look like a guy who was feeling too confident about keeping his job.

Then again, maybe McNair's vote of confidence a couple of weeks ago may have been just that. He talked up Carr a few weeks before he cut him loose too.

I don't know if anything's changed. We're still playing relatively hard for one half. I don't think the players or the coaching staff have quit. It's been the same lackluster pattern.

Yeah, vote of confidence means absolutely nothing.

He's gone by January 3rd. I'm almost 100% positive.

ATXtexanfan
12-27-2010, 06:30 PM
i'm off the kubiak wagon. should have lost to washington and kc as well. lucky to see rusty smith when we did. this whole thing is a mess. don't know what the hell bob is waiting on. other teams will be making moves soon.

Thorn
12-27-2010, 06:32 PM
Let's just say for the sake of argument Kubiak comes back for another season. What will you do?

For season ticket holders, will you renew your tickets? For folks that just sit at home and watch will you continue to watch? Will you just accept fate and hope for the best....again?

For me, I'll continue to watch. I will have no option other than hoping Kubiak exorcises his demons in the offseason. I watched the Oilers every weekend even during the lean years, I'll be doing the same with the Texans. But I won't be happy, that's for damn sure.

Wolf
12-27-2010, 06:35 PM
I'm kind of like KT - I won't be hopping mad if a new coach is brought in and I won't be hopping mad if Kubiak stays with caveats on both. I am not in the anybody but Kubiak club. I really dislike Gruden and don't see Fox as an improvement as HC. If they could land Cowher, Jimmy Johnson or Harbaugh then that's fine. If Kubiak stays at a minimum Bush and Gibbs need to leave and I would prefer a new GM as well. I am most interested in seeing a proven DC brought in either way.

I am in the same boat as you 'cak and KT. There has been a lot of turnover with the offensive coaches over the years and the offense has maintained fairly well. Defensively well they have got to get a veteran staff in. however, BOB needs to shit or get off the pot on this. I read an article that there could be 10 coaches that have lost their jobs this season (the list included the possibility of Kubiak)

like 'cak said MINIMUM of Bush and Gibbs need to be gone

Holland would be one I'd like to see stay though

drs23
12-27-2010, 06:42 PM
I don't know if anything's changed. We're still playing relatively hard for one half. I don't think the players or the coaching staff have quit. It's been the same lackluster pattern.

Yeah, vote of confidence means absolutely nothing.

He's gone by January 3rd. I'm almost 100% positive.

...that you're wrong. I agree with the posters that have said the D coaching staff gets a make over and GK still prowls the sidelines. I've not said much because it's become such a pissing match. Perhaps I have the "Uncle Bob" syndrome in that I like him as a person and I for (perhaps the only) one like his demeanor. I'll get rocks for that, OK. Can he do it? I dunno. Will he eventually be succsessful? I really do believe he will be. Will it be in Houston? Time will tell.

I just want my Houston Texans to WIN!

I'm out.

devo-x
12-27-2010, 06:46 PM
I hope the Texans win the finale against the Jags despite the coaches to finish on a positive note

McNair can't justify keeping Kubiak whether its 6-10 or 5-11

Mr teX
12-27-2010, 06:49 PM
For some perspective.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3217121&sportCat=nfl



What if Gary Kubiak goes on to be the next Bill Belichick?

Not saying it's gonna happen ... but if it does, there will be big boatload of people who wanted Kubiak to be fired today, that will come back and invent revisionist history and say they wanted him to stay.

I dunno . . I just have this gut feeling that we haven't heard the end of Gary Kubiak, the "mediocre coach".

And yeah . . . to echo someone else, I think even he wants to leave now, and has probably even told McNair that.

I'm late to the thread, but you will be hung in effigy by the "fire kubiak or else" lynch mob in here. At this point, i just want him to be gone so this board can get back to normal & this whole thing can just end...i'm talking about the segregation of this board & the kubiak experiment in general.

This whole thing reminds me of the Dunta Robinson saga. People were foaming at the mouth to get rid of this guy & sure enough got their wish & they were estatic. Now, in the midst of putting the finishing touches on one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the nfl where our secondary has been the main problem, i bet those same folks feel real dumb right now. They didn't think it would get this bad when we let him go...but it did.

TheMatrix31
12-27-2010, 06:55 PM
...that you're wrong. I agree with the posters that have said the D coaching staff gets a make over and GK still prowls the sidelines. I've not said much because it's become such a pissing match. Perhaps I have the "Uncle Bob" syndrome in that I like him as a person and I for (perhaps the only) one like his demeanor. I'll get rocks for that, OK. Can he do it? I dunno. Will he eventually be succsessful? I really do believe he will be. Will it be in Houston? Time will tell.

I just want my Houston Texans to WIN!

I'm out.

It'd have to be a serious shakeup though. And we need a super upgrade in defensive talent as well, through FA and maybe even a straight-down-the-ticket defensive draft.

We'll see in just a few days, I guess.

thunderkyss
12-27-2010, 07:48 PM
it makes sense to keep this offence in place.

the new dc comes in knowing theres talent on this D and if they get the unit playing well, they'll be back in every conversation for a HC gig... either here or elsewhere

So it'll be like 2009 all over again? Top 10 D, top 5 offense..... 9-7 or worse.

Why not??

HoustonFrog
12-27-2010, 08:29 PM
I'm late to the thread, but you will be hung in effigy by the "fire kubiak or else" lynch mob in here. At this point, i just want him to be gone so this board can get back to normal & this whole thing can just end...i'm talking about the segregation of this board & the kubiak experiment in general.

This whole thing reminds me of the Dunta Robinson saga. People were foaming at the mouth to get rid of this guy & sure enough got their wish & they were estatic. Now, in the midst of putting the finishing touches on one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the nfl where our secondary has been the main problem, i bet those same folks feel real dumb right now. They didn't think it would get this bad when we let him go...but it did.

So you are going to use a player vs a coach argument?If we did that I'd be the smartest guy here because I wanted Carr gone 2-3 years before he left, liked Schaub and guessed Kubes would fail. See how that works?Pick and chose. Everyone wanting Kubiak, Smith..everyone gone has dead solid evidence and alot more data than almost any team in the league years wise. Look at who has been let go this year?

Under many people's screwed up methodology the Cowboys should have kept
Wade because he ran a top D for years there. Just skip the quitting, etc. I mean at least they won divisions and made the playoffs.

And the Texans offense is just as much to blame for slow starts as the defense. To be down by 14 or more you have to suck on D and not score. Just because they score when the other team lets down doesn't mean the offense isn't the issue. I really will never get the push to be soso forever. It is a loser mentality.

Mike Singletary would have been here 10 years with his speeches.

thunderkyss
12-27-2010, 08:31 PM
The REASONS why Landry and Belichick are used as examples because they are UNIQUE in these accomplishments. And the reason that these examples are UNIQUE are directly due to the great football minds of both men.

Kubiak is way too mediocre to even be in the same conversation, yet I see people reaching for this logic time and time again. Mind boggling to read from smart football fans. Anyone expecting hidden greatness in Gary Kubiak might as well wait for the federal government to abolish the income tax.

I am not a proponent of keeping Gary Kubiak. I don't mean to defend him, but the only way to get to the conclusion you have, is to ignore the good he has done here.

Even in this waste of a season, we are tops in Red Zone offense. We are tops in 3rd & short. We are tops in the run game. Even though AJ has sat out (more or less) 3 games, he's tops in the league. We have an opportunity to end the season 3-3 in the division, which is a big improvement over our divisional play over the last 4 years.

Again, he is not the head coach he should be after a lifetime in the league, part of a successful program in Denver, and five years at the helm here......

But he's not chopped liver.

I believe we've played our part in the education of Gary Kubiak.... I believe canning him is the best thing that can happen for him right now. Winning is everything, no excuses.

TexansFight
12-27-2010, 08:36 PM
No one who has a shred of credibility as a legit NFL analyst or fan could even begin to rationalize bringing this abject failure of a regime back for another season.

Let's call a spade a spade people who want Kubiak back and before that wanted to keep Carr despite all evidence showing their loser stripes are ****ing TERRORISTS. That's right terrorists because these sadomasochists are out to deny us Houston NFL fans from enjoying playoff football.

TheMatrix31
12-27-2010, 08:50 PM
I am not a proponent of keeping Gary Kubiak. I don't mean to defend him, but the only way to get to the conclusion you have, is to ignore the good he has done here.

Even in this waste of a season, we are tops in Red Zone offense. We are tops in 3rd & short. We are tops in the run game. Even though AJ has sat out (more or less) 3 games, he's tops in the league. We have an opportunity to end the season 3-3 in the division, which is a big improvement over our divisional play over the last 4 years.

Again, he is not the head coach he should be after a lifetime in the league, part of a successful program in Denver, and five years at the helm here......

But he's not chopped liver.

I believe we've played our part in the education of Gary Kubiak.... I believe canning him is the best thing that can happen for him right now. Winning is everything, no excuses.

Great post.

thunderkyss
12-27-2010, 08:51 PM
Kubiak is gone by next Monday. No way can McNair try to rationalize away losing 8 out of the past 9 games after a 4-2 start. No way can he not see the obvious fact that Kubiak is just not going to get it done with the Texans. I just can't believe the man is that stubborn to continue with the Path of Fail until it leads his entire franchise off a cliff. Until our owner proves otherwise, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's not a stupid man

We're going to have Damien Lewis, Mark Anderson, & Jason Allen on our starting defense. Three Street free agents.

I bet you that is the reason Mario was put on IR two weeks ago, even though he's played practically every game of his career injured.

I guarantee you injury is going to be their big excuse.... even though they had five years to build depth on this program.

JB
12-27-2010, 09:21 PM
No one who has a shred of credibility as a legit NFL analyst or fan could even begin to rationalize bringing this abject failure of a regime back for another season.

Let's call a spade a spade people who want Kubiak back and before that wanted to keep Carr despite all evidence showing their loser stripes are ****ing TERRORISTS. That's right terrorists because these sadomasochists are out to deny us Houston NFL fans from enjoying playoff football.

This may be the most stupid, most offensive post about football that I have ever read.

Texan_Bill
12-27-2010, 09:23 PM
I love how people interject opinion as fact... Funny as hell, really!!!

Jackasses, really!!!!!!

Wolf
12-27-2010, 09:27 PM
http://bp2.blogger.com/_o9lcyuQQSq0/SGgTmhVq0PI/AAAAAAAAAJo/HEyYVXbICOE/s400/bw+theft.jpg

TheMatrix31
12-27-2010, 09:33 PM
This may be the most stupid, most offensive post about football that I have ever read.

Wow....I have that guy on ignore so didn't see that post, but holy crap.

And people give ME grief over my opinions.

Texecutioner
12-27-2010, 09:51 PM
So let me get this straight for reasons to keep Kubiak:

Tom Landry had five losing seasons when he started as a HC. Forget about different era, the lack of free agency and salary cap, and the little fact that Landry was a football genius, all we need to know is that he went five years without winning to justify supporting another year of Kubiak.

And the other is Belichick with the Browns, that somehow Gary will transform into a great football mind and motivator that he never showed even an ounce of having as a head coach of the Texans for five seasons.

Okay, those are the reasons.

And I'd like to point out that for every Tom Landry and Bill Belichick, I can show HUNDREDS of head coaches that achieved none of the above. Coaches that got five years and still lost with their second (and third) teams. And coaches that sucked at one team and still sucked at another.

The REASONS why Landry and Belichick are used as examples because they are UNIQUE in these accomplishments. And the reason that these examples are UNIQUE are directly due to the great football minds of both men.

Kubiak is way too mediocre to even be in the same conversation, yet I see people reaching for this logic time and time again. Mind boggling to read from smart football fans. Anyone expecting hidden greatness in Gary Kubiak might as well wait for the federal government to abolish the income tax.

Right on DB.

I think that these constant Landry and Billicheck comparisons of how Kubiak might fall into that exact path is about the most ignorant and ridiculous comparisons of what might happen from any bias fan of any team. It's embarrassing to even have to read that Kubiak has some sort of possibility that he'd turn into a Billicheck as some sort of reasoning to keep this guy. I'ts by far the worst scare tactic I've heard any fan use. "We can't get rid of him. What if he turned into the next Billicheck or Bill Walsh"??!! How stupid would we feel then if that happened? :wadepalm:

BB is arguably the best HC of all time at this point if not that he's in the top 3. And Kubes might turn into him?? Lol!!

Yeah right. And you and I DB might start a band together tomorrow and become the next Michael Jackson and Prince.

JB
12-27-2010, 09:53 PM
Right on DB.

I think that these constant Landry and Billicheck comparisons of how Kubiak might fall into that exact path is about the most ignorant and ridiculous comparisons of what might happen from any bias fan of any team. It's embarrassing to even have to read that Kubiak has some sort of possibility that he'd turn into a Billicheck as some sort of reasoning to keep this guy. I'ts by far the worst scare tactic I've heard any fan use. "We can't get rid of him. What if he turned into the next Billicheck or Bill Walsh"??!! How stupid would we feel then if that happened? :wadepalm:

BB is arguably the best HC of all time at this point if not that he's in the top 3. And Kubes might turn into him?? Lol!!

Yeah right. And you and I DB might start a band together tomorrow and become the next Michael Jackson and Prince.



:yikes: Ya'll are black? I had no idea.

Grforces
12-27-2010, 09:58 PM
On balance, I think he's had enough time and needs to go, but I do feel that his potential is unfulfilled.

If I could be certain that he'd hire an experienced DC as opposed to one of his buddies from Denver, I'd have a modicum of interest in keeping him. But to be honest, he's already failed that test.

I still have this feeling in the pit of my stomach that he's going to be successful if we get rid of him.

I feel exactly like you. What im scared of is starting over. Thats why I wasen't on the fire Kubiak band wagon last year. With this much talent its hard to predict what will happen with a new staff next year. Might get something like KC or you might get something worse.
Thing is even if we replace OC/DC/ST, the fire needs to come from the HC. I don't mind a players coach, but sometimes business is business and any manager/boss/coach has to bring heat on his players to get them motivated.
I just don't see that ever happening from him.
Its too bad we can't demote him to OC, having Mcnair tell him he owes it to the town or some bullshit.

gary
12-27-2010, 10:00 PM
Adam S. on ESPN said all day that Gary is in trouble FWIW.

Texecutioner
12-27-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm late to the thread, but you will be hung in effigy by the "fire kubiak or else" lynch mob in here. At this point, i just want him to be gone so this board can get back to normal & this whole thing can just end...i'm talking about the segregation of this board & the kubiak experiment in general.

This whole thing reminds me of the Dunta Robinson saga. People were foaming at the mouth to get rid of this guy & sure enough got their wish & they were estatic. Now, in the midst of putting the finishing touches on one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the nfl where our secondary has been the main problem, i bet those same folks feel real dumb right now. They didn't think it would get this bad when we let him go...but it did.

Amazing that you would actually use the Dunta Robinson release as some sort of "I told ya so" nonsense. Dunta? Really? Lol! Is that how low some of you Kubes supporters are reaching now?

That was actually one of the smarter things Smithiak has actually done here. In case you didn't notice our defense was pathetic last season when Dunta was here as well. Our secondary was torched last season, and Dunta was burnt miserably all year long. His attitude changed and he became vastly overrated. And whether you want to believe that he was some Messiah at CB or not is your perogative, but the bottom line was that it wasn't working out here for him anymore and once that's the case you have to have a divorce between both parties.

You want to actually act like Dunta's exit here is some major reason why this defense is struggling the way it is, well that's a bunch of BS. The real reason is the what you defended for years and it's Smithiak's lack of any action in free agency to fill up holes on this defense year after year in free agency with productive veteran players like every other consitently competitive team does. If you're not getting better you're getting worse in the NFL, and the Texans have never done anything to make themselves get better in the off season from year to year. They've just stood pat and said "Build through the draft, Build through the draft"!! Well now you're seeing it's ugly head form in year 5 from that. Draft picks are a roll of the dice every time. The Texans have refused to build up this secondary since Smithiak got here.

Texecutioner
12-27-2010, 10:04 PM
:yikes: Ya'll are black? I had no idea.

We are both black with Jerry Curls JB. :lol:


Here is my theme song for Kubes right now. :bender:

http://ilike.myspacecdn.com/play#Michael+Jackson:Beat+It:18421:s507132.8106596 .1592921.0.2.150%2Cstd_fbd7ee20b66144d8959413fec4c 5cf30

gary
12-27-2010, 10:13 PM
I don't know why but I believe Kubiak has one more week on the job at least here in Houston.

kiwitexansfan
12-27-2010, 10:16 PM
No one who has a shred of credibility as a legit NFL analyst or fan could even begin to rationalize bringing this abject failure of a regime back for another season.

Let's call a spade a spade people who want Kubiak back and before that wanted to keep Carr despite all evidence showing their loser stripes are ****ing TERRORISTS. That's right terrorists because these sadomasochists are out to deny us Houston NFL fans from enjoying playoff football.

Just wow.

And here I was appreciating how reasonable people had been about this thread.....

FirstTexansFan
12-27-2010, 10:33 PM
I'm just going to assume he meant to be sarcastically humorous with that, but hey, I sometimes assume too much :kubepalm:

JB
12-27-2010, 10:41 PM
I'm just going to assume he meant to be sarcastically humorous with that, but hey, I sometimes assume too much :kubepalm:

You do know the saying about assume, right?

FirstTexansFan
12-27-2010, 10:49 PM
You do know the saying about assume, right?

It may bear repeating hehe

Marcus
12-27-2010, 10:56 PM
No one who has a shred of credibility as a legit NFL analyst or fan could even begin to rationalize bringing this abject failure of a regime back for another season.

Let's call a spade a spade people who want Kubiak back and before that wanted to keep Carr despite all evidence showing their loser stripes are ****ing TERRORISTS. That's right terrorists because these sadomasochists are out to deny us Houston NFL fans from enjoying playoff football.

Wow.

If you were to be denied from enjoying anything in your life, that would be fine with me.

DexmanC
12-27-2010, 10:59 PM
I am not a proponent of keeping Gary Kubiak. I don't mean to defend him, but the only way to get to the conclusion you have, is to ignore the good he has done here.

Even in this waste of a season, we are tops in Red Zone offense. We are tops in 3rd & short. We are tops in the run game. Even though AJ has sat out (more or less) 3 games, he's tops in the league. We have an opportunity to end the season 3-3 in the division, which is a big improvement over our divisional play over the last 4 years.

Again, he is not the head coach he should be after a lifetime in the league, part of a successful program in Denver, and five years at the helm here......

But he's not chopped liver.

I believe we've played our part in the education of Gary Kubiak.... I believe canning him is the best thing that can happen for him right now. Winning is everything, no excuses.

The only stat I care for, and really have always cared for, is wins. We
don't win against the division. We don't win against the conference.
We don't win against playoff-bound teams. Glossy stats combined
with losses mean jack squat to me. Crappy stats combined with wins,
and Kubiak could get a lifetime contract from me.

Kubiak staying here will only ruin the team, and by extension, Kubiak.
A parting of the ways is in order here. I wish him farewell. At least
he got a 2 million dollar house on San Felipe out of the deal.

Big Lou
12-27-2010, 11:07 PM
No one who has a shred of credibility as a legit NFL analyst or fan could even begin to rationalize bringing this abject failure of a regime back for another season.

Let's call a spade a spade people who want Kubiak back and before that wanted to keep Carr despite all evidence showing their loser stripes are ****ing TERRORISTS. That's right terrorists because these sadomasochists are out to deny us Houston NFL fans from enjoying playoff football.

They did a Devils Advocate at SB Nation today. My Devils Advocate would strictly be that the Offense is Kubiaks Offense. Unless they were to bring the Shannanagans in to replace him (Not Likely or desired) the Offense will be blown up and will probably regress. At the same time th D would more than likely improve just because the "Suck" had left the room. Probably wouldn't offset enough though, so we'd be looking at 3 years of reggression/rebuilding. Are we prepared for that? I'm not, but I'm not addvocating doing nothing so that we remain a 5-10 win team for the next 10 years, but it sure will suck to have a crappy Defense and OFFENSE!!!!

I just fell of the Kubiak bandwagon mid year, I was a believer until that stretch against NY, and Dallas, and came back around a little, and then jumped off and ran.

If Kubiak stays and McNair/Smith hire a Top Notch DC (Don't know who that would be, but I mean someone spectacular, which isn't likely considering another team would make them HC if they were God's Gift to the Defensive Football) , I won't drink any Drano, but it will be tougher to get pumped up next year before the season starts. Only because I will know we have to improve from this year. However I find myself craving blood!!! There needs to be a public execution at the end of the season to satisfy my primative instincts.

:kubepalm:

DexmanC
12-27-2010, 11:11 PM
They did a Devils Advocate at SB Nation today. My Devils Advocate would strictly be that the Offense is Kubiaks Offense. Unless they were to bring the Shannanagans in to replace him (Not Likely or desired) the Offense will be blown up and will probably regress. At the same time th D would more than likely improve just because the "Suck" had left the room. Probably wouldn't offset enough though, so we'd be looking at 3 years of reggression/rebuilding. Are we prepared for that? I'm not, but I'm not addvocating doing nothing so that we remain a 5-10 win team for the next 10 years, but it sure will suck to have a crappy Defense and OFFENSE!!!!

I just fell of the Kubiak bandwagon mid year, I was a believer until that stretch against NY, and Dallas, and came back around a little, and then jumped off and ran.

If Kubiak stays and McNair/Smith hire a Top Notch DC (Don't know who that would be, but I mean someone spectacular, which isn't likely considering another team would make them HC if they were God's Gift to the Defensive Football) , I won't drink any Drano, but it will be tougher to get pumped up next year before the season starts. Only because I will know we have to improve from this year. However I find myself craving blood!!! There needs to be a public execution at the end of the season to satisfy my primative instincts.

:kubepalm:

Kubiak's offense is a stat-padder. In tight situations, they suck. Give
me a team with the discipline to make the "key" plays, and I could
care less what their stat-ranks are.

Shaft75
12-27-2010, 11:21 PM
Kubiak's offense is a stat-padder. In tight situations, they suck. Give
me a team with the discipline to make the "key" plays, and I could
care less what their stat-ranks are.

Somewhat agree to this. You have to remember why we succeed in tight situations. Dre keeps this team in ball games. How many spectacular catches has he had in crunch time?

But yeah, our offense sputters at least one half a game, every game. And it's usually in the first half, which = terrible gameplanning. And we found out at today's press conference who the culprit is for a bad gameplan.

DexmanC
12-27-2010, 11:27 PM
Somewhat agree to this. You have to remember why we succeed in tight situations. Dre keeps this team in ball games. How many spectacular catches has he had in crunch time?

But yeah, our offense sputters at least one half a game, every game. And it's usually in the first half, which = terrible gameplanning. And we found out at today's press conference who the culprit is for a bad gameplan.

My post was anti-Kubiak, by the way. I left the context out of the paragraph because
I assumed my position on the subject was long understood.

Mr. White
12-27-2010, 11:29 PM
I couldn't put it any better than my man Vinny put it here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1178165&postcount=39) a year and a half ago.

My problem with Kubiak is that he calls his games like an overzealous offensive coordinator. Kubiak has been a poor strategist and puts the team in bad situations, over and over. Hopefully having someone else call the plays will help him see the bigger picture more readily.

I think if Kubiak becomes successful here, then he'll need to change his whole coaching philosophy. But it would be like asking a leopard to change it's spots.

Shaft75
12-27-2010, 11:35 PM
My post was anti-Kubiak, by the way. I left the context out of the paragraph because
I assumed my position on the subject was long understood.

I can read man! I know your stance.

I was just pointing out that the main reason we are in some of those tight games is because of spectacular plays by #8 and #80. The gameplanning is what puts us in the hole. Well, and bad defense.

houstonspartan
12-27-2010, 11:36 PM
The only stat I care for, and really have always cared for, is wins. We
don't win against the division. We don't win against the conference.
We don't win against playoff-bound teams. Glossy stats combined
with losses mean jack squat to me. Crappy stats combined with wins,
and Kubiak could get a lifetime contract from me.

Kubiak staying here will only ruin the team, and by extension, Kubiak.
A parting of the ways is in order here. I wish him farewell.

Well said, and I agree as usual.

bigfan77801
12-28-2010, 02:28 AM
Ok. Let's kill the revisionist history right now...

I ,Pantherstang84, do hereby proclaim that I firmly believe on 12/27/2010 that Gary Kubiak, current head coach of the Houston Texans, should be dismissed from his current duties as head coach. I do not proclaim this with malice in my heart or being. I proclaim it due to my belief that both the Houston Texans and Gary Kubiak need to separate so that they may grow respectively. I also make the following stipulations:

1. If Kubiak eventually becomes a legendary head coach winning multiple Super Bowls with another organization, that I will not now or ever claim that I did not want Kubiak dismissed from his current duties as Texans head coach.

2. I am fully aware that this post and its contents will be saved for historical accuracy.

I encourage my fellow board members who want Kubiak dismissed to cosign this post so the revisionist history claims may be extinguished in the future.

Signed,

Pantherstang84
12/27/2010

Signed,
Bigfan77801
12/28/2010.

TexansFight
12-28-2010, 04:46 AM
I'm just going to assume he meant to be sarcastically humorous with that, but hey, I sometimes assume too much :kubepalm:

DING DING, we have a winner. Unfortunately some of the dimmer bulbs didn't get it. Nevertheless, I really believe those not wanting to fire Kubiak have a screw loose or enjoy pain. There is no other legitimate explanation other than them being a member of the Kubiak family.

Wolf
12-28-2010, 05:28 AM
DING DING, we have a winner. Unfortunately some of the dimmer bulbs didn't get it. Nevertheless, I really believe those not wanting to fire Kubiak have a screw loose or enjoy pain. There is no other legitimate explanation other than them being a member of the Kubiak family.

only thing I could think of this morning because maybe I am one of the dimmer bulbs, but I figure that over the years, I would learn your sarcasm, but I have got a clue still and I guess from what I can tell a few others more. Maybe use the sarcasm smiley when you are sarcastic ?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs167.snc1/6252_1099396605338_1239346820_30315990_31053_n.jpg

Mr teX
12-28-2010, 08:48 AM
Amazing that you would actually use the Dunta Robinson release as some sort of "I told ya so" nonsense. Dunta? Really? Lol! Is that how low some of you Kubes supporters are reaching now?

That was actually one of the smarter things Smithiak has actually done here. In case you didn't notice our defense was pathetic last season when Dunta was here as well. Our secondary was torched last season, and Dunta was burnt miserably all year long. His attitude changed and he became vastly overrated. And whether you want to believe that he was some Messiah at CB or not is your perogative, but the bottom line was that it wasn't working out here for him anymore and once that's the case you have to have a divorce between both parties.

You want to actually act like Dunta's exit here is some major reason why this defense is struggling the way it is, well that's a bunch of BS. The real reason is the what you defended for years and it's Smithiak's lack of any action in free agency to fill up holes on this defense year after year in free agency with productive veteran players like every other consitently competitive team does. If you're not getting better you're getting worse in the NFL, and the Texans have never done anything to make themselves get better in the off season from year to year. They've just stood pat and said "Build through the draft, Build through the draft"!! Well now you're seeing it's ugly head form in year 5 from that. Draft picks are a roll of the dice every time. The Texans have refused to build up this secondary since Smithiak got here.


B.S. Last year, the secondary wasn't giving up record amounts of yardage in the air & after the 1st 3 games, the secondary at least looked competent back there. We are a far cry from that now. Oh yeah, that veteran leadership you're talking about...he brought that. When this regime finally got the memo & tried to replace that (albeit too late) with Jason Allen it was too late. No, i'm not using his departure as an "i told you so" type moment but trying to downplay his loss from our secondary as not being all that big of a deal......especially when his addition to ATL's pushed them over the top, quite frankly is just silly.

As far as this regime's refusal to build up the secondary, that's a fallacy. They've used draft picks & hit FA to build it up, Matt & Adam chronicled this on 790 this morning. It hasn't been so much as a refusal, more of that they just haven't panned out b/c they've been terrible talent evaluators.

Surreal McCoy
12-28-2010, 09:11 AM
As far as this regime's refusal to build up the secondary, that's a fallacy. They've used draft picks & hit FA to build it up, Matt & Adam chronicled this on 790 this morning. It hasn't been so much as a refusal, more of that they just haven't panned out b/c they've been terrible talent evaluators.

Careful there, Pal. Facts are frowned on around here so you just better watch your step!

HoustonFrog
12-28-2010, 09:22 AM
Kubes could also be the next Wade Phillips....nice guy, really good coordinator, horrible at game management and outcoached in many games. Probably alot closer to the truth than Bellichick or Landry.

Also, for those that might be nervous he succeeds...why? There is no corrolary that says if he learns from his mistakes and succeeds elsewhere that the Texans must then suck. They can learn from their mistakes and get the right guy in here to win also. Win/win. Gary hasn't learned in 5 years though so right now it is a good option to go the other direction. Alot of what happens to coaches down the road is opportunity/organizations/GMs.

CharloTex
12-28-2010, 09:58 AM
B.S. Last year, the secondary wasn't giving up record amounts of yardage in the air & after the 1st 3 games, the secondary at least looked competent back there. We are a far cry from that now. Oh yeah, that veteran leadership you're talking about...he brought that. When this regime finally got the memo & tried to replace that (albeit too late) with Jason Allen it was too late. No, i'm not using his departure as an "i told you so" type moment but trying to downplay his loss from our secondary as not being all that big of a deal......especially when his addition to ATL's pushed them over the top, quite frankly is just silly.

As far as this regime's refusal to build up the secondary, that's a fallacy. They've used draft picks & hit FA to build it up, Matt & Adam chronicled this on 790 this morning. It hasn't been so much as a refusal, more of that they just haven't panned out b/c they've been terrible talent evaluators.

Dunta Robinson did not want to play in Houston any more. The only way we could have kept him here was as a disgrunt, by franchising him and paying him as though he were the 3rd best CB in the league (average of top 5). Get the frig over it. That divorce was brought on by Dunta, not Smithiak. You can love Dunta's verve all day long, he didn't want to play here - for the Texans, or for YOU.

HOU-TEX
12-28-2010, 10:12 AM
Re: Does anyone actually want Kubiak to stay?

I do!

Signed,

Frank Bush

Pantherstang84
12-28-2010, 10:35 AM
Dunta Robinson did not want to play in Houston any more. The only way we could have kept him here was as a disgrunt, by franchising him and paying him as though he were the 3rd best CB in the league (average of top 5). Get the frig over it. That divorce was brought on by Dunta, not Smithiak. You can love Dunta's verve all day long, he didn't want to play here - for the Texans, or for YOU.

Must spread rep yada yada. :goodpost:

Double Barrel
12-28-2010, 10:49 AM
I am not a proponent of keeping Gary Kubiak. I don't mean to defend him, but the only way to get to the conclusion you have, is to ignore the good he has done here.

Even in this waste of a season, we are tops in Red Zone offense. We are tops in 3rd & short. We are tops in the run game. Even though AJ has sat out (more or less) 3 games, he's tops in the league. We have an opportunity to end the season 3-3 in the division, which is a big improvement over our divisional play over the last 4 years.

Again, he is not the head coach he should be after a lifetime in the league, part of a successful program in Denver, and five years at the helm here......

But he's not chopped liver.

I believe we've played our part in the education of Gary Kubiak.... I believe canning him is the best thing that can happen for him right now. Winning is everything, no excuses.

I don't ignore the good he has done, but when evaluating a head coach, you don't just look at one side of the ball. Matter-of-fact, you have to look at the big picture, including all three phases (offense, defense, ST), player evaluations and acquisitions, coaching hires, and the final product on the field.

80 games is a reasonable amount to evaluate any given head coach by even the most liberal of standards.

I'd love to have Kubiak as our offensive coordinator, but not as our head coach. Unfortunately, firing a head coach burns a bridge so the former is simply not possible.

But if he does get another HC with another team, I wish him nothing but the best (unless he's our opponent, of course). I have no animosity toward the guy and hope his career goes in a more positive direction than what it's been with the Texans.

I love how people interject opinion as fact... Funny as hell, really!!!

Jackasses, really!!!!!!

The only facts we really need to know is career 36-43, and four seasons in a row that the team under his leadership has been 5-7 at the 12 game mark.

Scoreboard really is all that matters, and Kubiak's record speaks for itself without the need for opinion.

Rey
12-28-2010, 10:51 AM
Somewhat agree to this. You have to remember why we succeed in tight situations. Dre keeps this team in ball games. How many spectacular catches has he had in crunch time?

A lot...

I wonder how Matt would do if he had as many prime targets go down as some other QB's...

CloakNNNdagger
12-28-2010, 10:59 AM
An interesting rather buried piece of info. The "eplanation" leaves this fan just shaking his head.:kubepalm:

Smith hits nail on head (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/7355864.html)

After the 24-23 loss at Denver, defensive end Antonio Smith said there was confusion on defense that caused, among other things, the Texans to get caught with 10 players on the field twice.

Coach Gary Kubiak said injuries to defensive tackles Shaun Cody and Earl Mitchell contributed to the confusion.

"We suited seven defensive linemen for maybe the only game since I've been here," Kubiak said. "Then we had two get nicked up. We're trying to rotate guys because of the altitude and trying to keep guys fresh, so we got ourselves into a pickle.

"It was our fault as coaches. We got out of whack with some substitutions, and we had to waste a timeout, and another time got the wrong personnel on the field. You've got to work through those things."

Rey
12-28-2010, 11:11 AM
Dunta Robinson did not want to play in Houston any more. The only way we could have kept him here was as a disgrunt, by franchising him and paying him as though he were the 3rd best CB in the league (average of top 5). Get the frig over it. That divorce was brought on by Dunta, not Smithiak. You can love Dunta's verve all day long, he didn't want to play here - for the Texans, or for YOU.

No...That was the organizations fault...

I do not believe that Dunta wanted to leave, just so he could leave...

He even said that he would not complain about the franchise tag the second time around...

Here is a great post by Runner about Rick Smith:

That series of negotiations was instructive about Rick Smith, GM.

Each time, a player who had been very good for the Texans wanted to renegotiate his contract. A leak is made to the press about an exorbitant, though unconfirmed, offer made by the Texans that was summarily turned down. Player gets villified by fan base for being greedy and negotiating in the press.* An impasse would be reached and Smith would use his "big stick" of free agency rules to keep the player. The fans celebrate because Smith is tough.

One of Smith's responsibilities is to negotiate contracts to lock up players the team needs to keep long term. The contract needs to be one that both the team and the player will sign. He has failed at that much more than a good GM should. Also, if the contract offers are to be believed, he: A) routinely tries to overpay players and B) can't even get a contract signed that his heavily in the player's favor.

Rick Smith is part of the problem.

*Kudos to the Texans PR department, boo to Houston media hacks, and a "C'mon, think about it" to Houston fans. The player didn't release those details; it came from the Texans because it made them look good and the player look bad.

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2010, 11:13 AM
No...That was the organizations fault...

I do not believe that Dunta wanted to leave, just so he could leave...

He even said that he would not complain about the franchise tag the second time around...

Yes but franchising him was the wrong move because it was DRASTICALLY overpaying him.

scourge
12-28-2010, 11:24 AM
No...That was the organizations fault...

I do not believe that Dunta wanted to leave, just so he could leave...

He even said that he would not complain about the franchise tag the second time around...
Here is a great post by Runner about Rick Smith:

That was after his fiasco the previous season where he got tagged. Once he had that subpar year he changed his attitude. He knew he wouldn't get that kind of money elsewhere and wanted to hopefully play well enough this season to warrant the money he thought he deserved before the '09 season. If he did play well he would've wanted us to give him that high dollar contract during the season, otherwise I don't think he would have signed with us once he became a free agent unless we were the highest bidder.

Mr teX
12-28-2010, 11:30 AM
Yes but franchising him was the wrong move because it was DRASTICALLY overpaying him.

If you hit FA hard like some here want the texans to do, you're ALWAYS gonna overpay, even for the studs & in that regard it's really a moot point.

The only guys you don't overpay for in FA are the scrubs.......in other words, the guys we get. Even then you could still argue that they're overpaid b/c they suck & shouldn't be paid anything for such terrible play.

It's a damned if you do damned if you don't type thing. The great equalizer: good coaching & talent evaluation.

Mr teX
12-28-2010, 11:37 AM
That was after his fiasco the previous season where he got tagged. Once he had that subpar year he changed his attitude. He knew he wouldn't get that kind of money elsewhere and wanted to hopefully play well enough this season to warrant the money he thought he deserved before the '09 season. If he did play well he would've wanted us to give him that high dollar contract during the season, otherwise I don't think he would have signed with us once he became a free agent unless we were the highest bidder.

This post makes no sense b/c what we know from players in all pro sports is that money talks & 90% of everything else is irrelevant. If the money was there, he would've been here. Did ATL go waaayy overboard? you could argue they did, but its paying off big time for them now.

disaacks3
12-28-2010, 11:50 AM
I'm late to the thread, but you will be hung in effigy by the "fire kubiak or else" lynch mob in here. At this point, i just want him to be gone so this board can get back to normal & this whole thing can just end...i'm talking about the segregation of this board & the kubiak experiment in general.

This whole thing reminds me of the Dunta Robinson saga. People were foaming at the mouth to get rid of this guy & sure enough got their wish & they were estatic. Now, in the midst of putting the finishing touches on one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the nfl where our secondary has been the main problem, i bet those same folks feel real dumb right now. They didn't think it would get this bad when we let him go...but it did. Don't feel dumb in the least...and I watched him give up big plays last night as well. IMHO -The Secondary being worse isn't due to DR being gone, it's due to NO veterans and horrible coaching.

I am not a proponent of keeping Gary Kubiak. I don't mean to defend him, but the only way to get to the conclusion you have, is to ignore the good he has done here.

Even in this waste of a season, we are tops in Red Zone offense. We are tops in 3rd & short. We are tops in the run game. Even though AJ has sat out (more or less) 3 games, he's tops in the league. We have an opportunity to end the season 3-3 in the division, which is a big improvement over our divisional play over the last 4 years.

Again, he is not the head coach he should be after a lifetime in the league, part of a successful program in Denver, and five years at the helm here......

But he's not chopped liver.

I believe we've played our part in the education of Gary Kubiak.... I believe canning him is the best thing that can happen for him right now. Winning is everything, no excuses. You're right, chopped liver can be GOOD for you...Kubiak isn't. Unless there's some weird stat of Day games, at sea level, played on grass preceding a full moon....Kubiak is a losing head coach in every measurable W-L column. The Texans can get (and deserve) better.

No...That was the organizations fault...

I do not believe that Dunta wanted to leave, just so he could leave...

He even said that he would not complain about the franchise tag the second time around...Here is a great post by Runner about Rick Smith: I'd be "happy" with 11 million to NOT perform my job very well either. Anybody who though he was even "good" here last year needs to watch more tape.

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2010, 11:50 AM
Did ATL go waaayy overboard? you could argue they did, but its paying off big time for them now.

6 pass deflections, no intercepts for the Falcons.

While I'm at it, here is an advanced stats site who ranks DBs, Robinson is way behind Quin and slightly behind Jackson in their ratings.

LINK (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?pos=CB)

scourge
12-28-2010, 11:51 AM
This post makes no sense b/c what we know from players in all pro sports is that money talks & 90% of everything else is irrelevant. If the money was there, he would've been here. Did ATL go waaayy overboard? you could argue they did, but its paying off big time for them now.

Had he played like a top 5 CB in '09 he would not have been fine with the 2nd franchise. He probably would've pulled a Revis. He was only fine with it because he hurt his value by being "meh." Like I said, he'd be paid that way far more for this season than he would've gotten anywhere else.

If he had been tagged and played like the All-Pro he thinks he is, he would've wanted us to give him a fat contract during the season. Otherwise, he knew full well that a player can't be franchised more than 2 years in a row. So he would hit the FA market whether the Texans liked it or not. The only way to retain him a that point would've been to throw him a contract bigger than any other team, and probably at least Top 3 $$$.

There's no guarantee he would've even signed a mid-season contract knowing he could possibly make even more in the off-season.

kiwitexansfan
12-28-2010, 11:52 AM
6 pass deflections, no intercepts for the Falcons.

While I'm at it, here is an advanced stats site who ranks DBs, Robinson is way behind Quin and slightly behind Jackson in their ratings.

LINK (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?pos=CB)

Allen is rated higher than Jackson too.

Mr teX
12-28-2010, 12:04 PM
6 pass deflections, no intercepts for the Falcons.

While I'm at it, here is an advanced stats site who ranks DBs, Robinson is way behind Quin and slightly behind Jackson in their ratings.

LINK (http://wp.advancednflstats.com/defenderstats.php?pos=CB)

Its funny when people try to use stats to say how good a CB is when the best don't even get thrown at enough to get any decent stats to begin with. Quinn is also way ahead of Revis & Asomugha....Do we really think he's anywhere near there level as a cb?

Mr teX
12-28-2010, 12:06 PM
Had he played like a top 5 CB in '09 he would not have been fine with the 2nd franchise. He probably would've pulled a Revis. He was only fine with it because he hurt his value by being "meh." Like I said, he'd be paid that way far more for this season than he would've gotten anywhere else.

If he had been tagged and played like the All-Pro he thinks he is, he would've wanted us to give him a fat contract during the season. Otherwise, he knew full well that a player can't be franchised more than 2 years in a row. So he would hit the FA market whether the Texans liked it or not. The only way to retain him a that point would've been to throw him a contract bigger than any other team, and probably at least Top 3 $$$.

There's no guarantee he would've even signed a mid-season contract knowing he could possibly make even more in the off-season.

All speculation & opinion on your part.

gary
12-28-2010, 12:23 PM
Robinson is not the same player he was in 2007. His attiude sucked the two years after this had to happen and I am happy that it did.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 12:47 PM
I hope the Texans win the finale against the Jags despite the coaches to finish on a positive note

McNair can't justify keeping Kubiak whether its 6-10 or 5-11

But that's the difference between getting a pick in the top seven and getting pick number 12-14.

Norg
12-28-2010, 12:53 PM
I had a dream last night that i was watching ABC13 news and they said RIck smith a Kubes had been fired :koolaid: Funny LOL

scourge
12-28-2010, 01:36 PM
All speculation & opinion on your part.

Speculation that we couldn't tag him a 3rd time? Speculation that he would test the free agent market in '11 knowing that we couldn't tag him that 3rd time? Do you seriously think he would've settled for less than Top 3 if he had played well for us this season? Have you paid attention at all to how things have went down with him since the '09 off season?

Again, had he played anything close to what Gamble did in the '09 season he would not have been happy with a 2nd franchise tag knowing an injury or subpar '10 season would hurt his wallet. Especially knowing we wouldn't be able to do it again in '11, which we wouldn't had he sucked.

It's all speculation and your opinion that he really did want to stay here and was telling the media the truth about wanting to stay in Houston. Example: I could demand a contract extension and raise/bonus at work, only to be told they are just going to keep me under contract another year at a higher price. Afterwards there is no guarantee they have to keep me. If during that next year I under perform I'd be then telling my bosses, co-workers, and clients/customers that I love my job and want to stay another year. That doesn't necessarily mean it's true. It could mean that I know my lack of performance hurt my chances of getting paid more elsewhere and I don't want to cause problems for myself while still employed at that company. Then, if I out perform my contract and don't have it brought up to what I deserve before it expires I could look for a company that will.

It's not simply "I want to stay in Houston." It's "I want to stay in Houston if they pay me far more than what my abilities had shown I was worth coming off of a serious injury."

DR and AJ were my favorite players here. It wasn't until he demanded money that he wasn't worth after the '08 season and acted like a child with his silly "Pay me Rick" bs that I was fine with him leaving. If the rumors were true that he had actually offered him a contract similar to, or greater than, Gamble's and he turned it down that should tell you how he much really wanted to stay.

He's nowhere near a Top 5 cb.

"This was the main reason I came here — to win," Robinson said this week. "To have 12 wins in 14 games, that's a major deal. That's what you sign up for. I have no complaints with anything that's going on."

"When I left (Houston), I was on my third coordinator and second coach in the secondary, but there's an understanding in this building," he said. "It's not one or two people that have to deliver. Collectively as a group, everybody in this building, if you're going to contribute, you've got to step on the field and deliver. Guys here understand what they're supposed to do."


That sounds like a guy who really liked it here. Was he wrong in that second paragraph? No, not at all.

Was he being serious that this(winning) was the main reason he went to Atlanta, and not because they gave him at the time the 2nd highest contract for a CB in NFL history? I doubt it.
If Detroit had offered that contract with Atlanta offering something closer to 4th or 5th highest would he have still signed with Atlanta? I doubt it.
Had ATL offered him that contract and we offerend the 3rd highest in history would he have stayed here because he likes it so much? I doubt it.
But like you said, it's just my opinion.

BetaV1
12-28-2010, 02:36 PM
To answer the topic creator's question: no, I would not like to see Gary remain as the Texans' head coach.

However, the next best alternative would be to have Kubes remain and have him or Smith bring in a trust defensive coordinator. While some statements of Kubiak becoming the next Bill Belichick are a bit far fetched, there is historical evidence that such a move can be the right now:

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-falcons-blog/files/2010/03/sean-payton-custom1.jpg

Sean Payton.

The head coach of the current defending World Champion New Orleans Saints. For his entire tenure as a Saints headcoach, the Saints have had the definition of elite offense in the NFL, always claiming a spot in the top 5 offenses (usually #1). Brees, Colston, Shockey/Graham, Reggie Bush/Pierre Thomas, Lance Moore, etc. The list of depth on the offensive side of the ball is borderline unfair to the rest of the NFL.

Yet a lot of people have quickly forgotten how Sean Payton stumbled after his debut season. The Saints went 10-6 after Hurricane Katrina and got to the NFC Championship game, but the team didn't jump to the Superbowl to beat the Colts the very next week. Immediately following that historic 2006 season, the Saints finished a disappointing 7-9. The after that let-down season, the Saints laid another egg despite the hype of a return to championship caliber football by finishing a mediocre 8-8.

After three seasons, Sean Payton had a record of 25-23, thus giving Sean Payton a winning percentage of .520. How very Gary Kubiak of him.

So what caused the dramatic turn around from mediocre to world champion?

http://blog.nola.com/news_impact/2009/07/large_williams30.JPG

Gregg Williams.

A former head coach in his own right and a defensive coordinator for a handful of teams. Successful defenses follow this man no matter where he goes.

The national media slowly began to pick up on Sean Payton's average performance before the start of last season, but the local media down here in New Orleans already made it no secret that Sean Payton was quickly approaching the hot seat. This is a man who had a future hall of fame quarterback in Drew Brees, who had fielded one of the best offenses of the current decade, and could only produce "meh." The NFL championship window is much narrower now than what it was even just ten years ago, and if Sean Payton didn't it together, his ship would sail without him.

For his first three seasons, Sean Payton had appointed his very good friend Gary Gibbs as the team's defensive coordinator. The result was a catastrophe. The Saints were basically dead last in nearly every category and produced one of the worst defenses in recent NFL history, and that in itself is no exaggeration. Want proof of this? Sure.

It took Drew Brees to become only the second quarterback in NFL history to throw for over 5,000 yards to get the Saints to an 8-8 record.

That's how bad that defense was.

Sean Payton wised up and made the change. He fired his friend. Sean and Co. go out with the mindset of no more favors to friends and nab Gregg Williams. You all know the rest by now.

Coaching in the NFL is not so simple as the head coach. Football is the ultimate team sport and this applies to both the players and personal; it's why you have coordinators and assistant coaches. Sean Payton will be the first to tell you he has no idea how to field a defense; Gary Kubiak will likely be no different. The key is to make the right decision as to who you pick to shore up your gray area. Sean Payton made the wrong decision, made the attempt to correct it, and was successful. Gary Kubiak could be that one correction away from a Lombardi in Reliant, and that's not an exaggeration.

GuerillaBlack
12-28-2010, 02:42 PM
Nah. Bad example with Sean Payton and the Saints, IMO. They made the playoffs his first year, and were not making the same dumb mistakes that the Kubiak led Texans have made. For example, Payton did not have four straight seasons of going 5-7 after 12 games. Payton proved he can be a winning coach his first year. Kubiak hasn't in five. Time for Kubes to go.

BetaV1
12-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Nah. Bad example with Sean Payton and the Saints, IMO. They made the playoffs his first year, and were not making the same dumb mistakes that the Kubiak led Texans have made. For example, Payton did not have four straight seasons of going 5-7 after 12 games. Payton proved he can be a winning coach his first year. Kubiak hasn't in five. Time for Kubes to go.

Not to give downplay Payton's accomplishment in his first year, but you really ought not to question what a man can do with a heavy heart. The Saints were playing the 2006 season for a lot more than just wins and losses that year. Emotion drove that team more than anyone or anything else. The magic wore off quickly when the next year began.

Off-topic: I notice me and you butt heads quite a bit. :) Always makes for good debate.

Double Barrel
12-28-2010, 03:00 PM
After three seasons, Sean Payton had a record of 25-23, thus giving Sean Payton a winning percentage of .520. How very Gary Kubiak of him.

I had to take exception to this one sentence. Kubiak has never been over .500 as a head coach. However, he did make it to .500 for a week earlier this season.

gary
12-28-2010, 03:19 PM
Let's stop with the what if posts in these threads. Gary should be a lame duck already.

infantrycak
12-28-2010, 03:24 PM
Nah. Bad example with Sean Payton and the Saints, IMO. They made the playoffs his first year, and were not making the same dumb mistakes that the Kubiak led Texans have made. For example, Payton did not have four straight seasons of going 5-7 after 12 games. Payton proved he can be a winning coach his first year. Kubiak hasn't in five. Time for Kubes to go.

Well that sells the comparison short. Yeah Payton had more immediate success with his one winning season (with one more game won) but then the team was regressing two years in a row. And I think it is funny that everything in the world is Kubiak's fault but the Saints regress to 8-8 and 7-9 and there were no dumb coaching mistakes.

gary
12-28-2010, 03:32 PM
The blame falls on the team as a whole but in the end the coaching staff gets fired. That's just the way it goes.

thunderkyss
12-28-2010, 03:48 PM
The only stat I care for, and really have always cared for, is wins. We
don't win against the division. We don't win against the conference.
We don't win against playoff-bound teams. Glossy stats combined
with losses mean jack squat to me. Crappy stats combined with wins,
and Kubiak could get a lifetime contract from me.

Kubiak staying here will only ruin the team, and by extension, Kubiak.
A parting of the ways is in order here. I wish him farewell. At least
he got a 2 million dollar house on San Felipe out of the deal.

The post you quoted had absolutely nothing to do with whatever it is you cared for.

You don't want Kubiak here, you've been pretty clear about that.

My post was in reply to a "Kubiak hasn't done crap" post.

Which isn't true, regardless what you use as milestones.