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View Full Version : Interesting Peter King comment about Cowher


keyser
12-20-2010, 11:48 AM
Buried in Peter King's MMQB column (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/12/19/week-15-mmqb/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin) this week (in item 6 on the last page) was this line:

My guess is unless there's an opening in Houston, Cowher's going to stay in TV for one more year, at least.

Peter King seems to have more wrong predictions than right ones, but sometimes he does have some inside information. Earlier in the column he also says that Cowher won't go to Carolina (he lives in Raleigh, a few hours from Charlotte), since Carolina won't pay enough.

DX-TEX
12-20-2010, 11:49 AM
I want two weeks from now to get here so we can finally get some damn closure either way.

texanchris
12-20-2010, 12:11 PM
Cowhers wish list is miami and New York also, we have to hope both of those team do pretty good so they dont fire their coaches. Would love for cowher to come here.

GuerillaBlack
12-20-2010, 12:13 PM
Cowhers wish list is miami and New York also, we have to hope both of those team do pretty good so they dont fire their coaches. Would love for cowher to come here.

Miami probably won't fire Sparano. He made it to the playoffs two years ago, and I believe they are still fighting for a spot. That's with their horrible QB situation. As long as the Giants make the playoffs, I think Coughlin is fine. The team is 9-5, and lucky for them, the Saints lost yesterday, too.

HoustonFrog
12-20-2010, 12:41 PM
Why wouldn't this be attractive to Cowher?

You have an offense that can be whatever you want in my opinion. He can keep some assts and keep the blocking scheme or I'm a firm believer that Arain would be good in most systems. He gets yards after the hit and has great lean. I'm sure he would be used more than he is now. You have a Qb that can work play action when the running game is clicking. I think part of Schaub's issues this year are more a product of him being forced to do too much. The mistakes become magnified. He does have issues with ball control at times burt I think with AJ and limiting the throws you would get more of a gameplan like we saw in the first Colts game. He would have to take a look at the line and see what is in place but he has the skill.

Defensively they can put in what they want. It isn't like the D is screaming with talent where you have to stick with guys. Mario could even be bumped inside more if they wanted.

Overall this is way more attractive than Carolina, with no talent and the others mentioned aren't firing coaches.

Brisco_County
12-20-2010, 12:54 PM
The first two on that "wish list" are smoke. Everyone knows Coughlin isn't getting fired, so the Giants aren't worth even a mention. Miami doesn't have a stable QB situation, which was a condition Cowher previously said was necessary. The reason those teams are listed is to put the team he's really counting on, Houston, down a couple of notches. It's important to not list Houston as #1 or #2 because he doesn't want to lose bargaining leverage by seeming too eager, and he wants to be somewhat respectful to the current coach.

It's funny, every time there's "leak" to the media about Cowher's intentions, there's a new team thrown into the mix-- except Houston, which is always mentioned.

ChampionTexan
12-20-2010, 01:10 PM
Why wouldn't this be attractive to Cowher?

You have an offense that can be whatever you want in my opinion. He can keep some assts and keep the blocking scheme or I'm a firm believer that Arain would be good in most systems. He gets yards after the hit and has great lean. I'm sure he would be used more than he is now. You have a Qb that can work play action when the running game is clicking. I think part of Schaub's issues this year are more a product of him being forced to do too much. The mistakes become magnified. He does have issues with ball control at times burt I think with AJ and limiting the throws you would get more of a gameplan like we saw in the first Colts game. He would have to take a look at the line and see what is in place but he has the skill. Granted, Cowher's got much more of a resume than Tomlin did, but the fact he's a defensive guy by background could make it more palatable to him.

Defensively they can put in what they want. It isn't like the D is screaming with talent where you have to stick with guys. Mario could even be bumped inside more if they wanted.

Overall this is way more attractive than Carolina, with no talent and the others mentioned aren't firing coaches.

If Cowher were to end up here (or if anybody besides Kubiak is the HC next year), I really hope to see an approach to the offense similar to Mike Tomlin's approach to the defense when he took over the Steelers. He was a 4-3 guy, and Tampa Two guy, but realized the Steelers D didn't need a overhaul, and let LeBeau continue to run the 3-4. In fact, he took the opportunity to learn and expand his knowledge base. I don't think that we need to keep Dennison (although of everyone we've currently got, he's probably the one I wouldn't hate keeping), but I do think any new head coach should find a way to leave the core of what we have on offense in place and gut the defense. Granted, Cowher's got much more of a resume than Tomlin did, but the fact he's a defensive guy by background could make it more palatable to him. Oh yeah - Cowher's background with special teams could be very useful too. Joe's been great, but it time for a new ST coach next season.

I still say that my biggest concern about Cowher is that he's gonna demand total control, and while it may be an improvement over what we have now, I can't think of a single consistently successful NFL franchise - with the glaring and obvious exception of the Patriots - who's done it without a clear delineation between front office and coaching staff. You can have the coach higher in the pecking order, but don't have the GM or personnel folks directly - or indirectly - report to the HC. It's the single biggest problem we have now, and while Cowher or another HC may make the situation better or more bearable, in my mind it's not treating the cause - just one of the more prominent symptoms.

MFG16
12-20-2010, 01:10 PM
The first two on that "wish list" are smoke. Everyone knows Coughlin isn't getting fired, so the Giants aren't worth even a mention. Miami doesn't have a stable QB situation, which was a condition Cowher previously said was necessary. The reason those teams are listed is to put the team he's really counting on, Houston, down a couple of notches. It's important to not list Houston as #1 or #2 because he doesn't want to lose bargaining leverage by seeming too eager, and he wants to be somewhat respectful to the current coach.

It's funny, every time there's "leak" to the media about Cowher's intentions, there's a new team thrown into the mix-- except Houston, which is always mentioned.

Thats a good point about the leaks to the media. New York has always come up though, and I wouldn't rush to the conclusion that Coughlin wont get fired. Giving up a 21 point lead in 6 minutes isn't exactly a job saver, especially with the new york media. Cowher did make NY his first choice, and if the giants ever wanted to make a move at HC the time would be now.

MojoX
12-20-2010, 01:13 PM
It's funny, every time there's "leak" to the media about Cowher's intentions, there's a new team thrown into the mix-- except Houston, which is always mentioned.

Not saying that Cowher is not interested, but if a sports writer was gonna make up a rumor or speculate, it makes total sense to include the Texans. Defensive coach for underachieving offensive team.

I love the 3-4 defense and Cowher is one of my favorite coaches, but I am not gonna let the rumor mill get my hopes up one way or the other until McNair makes his move.

Hookem Horns
12-20-2010, 01:17 PM
Everyone knows Coughlin isn't getting fired, so the Giants aren't worth even a mention.

I wouldn't bank on that. Bob McNair doesn't own the Giants. Giants ownership were embarrassed yesterday. The Giants were up 31-10 with less than 8 minutes to go in that game and they lost in regulation. That game cost them the NFC East division and if they lose to Green Bay on the road next week they probably won't make the playoffs. If the Giants don't make the playoffs Coughlin will probably be dismissed.

As it looks for me personally, there's a good chance Cowher will be coaching a team I root for next season.

bckey
12-20-2010, 01:21 PM
If Cowher were to end up here (or if anybody besides Kubiak is the HC next year), I really hope to see an approach to the offense similar to Mike Tomlin's approach to the defense when he took over the Steelers. He was a 4-3 guy, and Tampa Two guy, but realized the Steelers D didn't need a overhaul, and let LeBeau continue to run the 3-4. In fact, he took the opportunity to learn and expand his knowledge base. I don't think that we need to keep Dennison (although of everyone we've currently got, he's probably the one I wouldn't hate keeping), but I do think any new head coach should find a way to leave the core of what we have on offense in place and gut the defense. Granted, Cowher's got much more of a resume than Tomlin did, but the fact he's a defensive guy by background could make it more palatable to him. Oh yeah - Cowher's background with special teams could be very useful too. Joe's been great, but it time for a new ST coach next season.

I still say that my biggest concern about Cowher is that he's gonna demand total control, and while it may be an improvement over what we have now, I can't think of a single consistently successful NFL franchise - with the glaring and obvious exception of the Patriots - who's done it without a clear delineation between front office and coaching staff. You can have the coach higher in the pecking order, but don't have the GM or personnel folks directly - or indirectly - report to the HC. It's the single biggest problem we have now, and while Cowher or another HC may make the situation better or more bearable, in my mind it's not treating the cause - just one of the more prominent symptoms.

This is the concern I have also. I want Kubiak fired regardless but I'm not so sure I would replace him with Cowher if he will only come as a coach/gm combination. I might be inclined to look elsewhere if he wants that much control. I do think that Cowher has the personality and coaching style that would be an exact match for what this team needs.

texanchris
12-20-2010, 02:01 PM
what if Cowher is just using Houston as leverage so that he gets the coaching job in New York. To be honest i dont see him coming here and i dont know who i would want as the head coach if Cowher doesn't come to Houston.

disaacks3
12-20-2010, 02:04 PM
what if Cowher is just using Houston as leverage so that he gets the coaching job in New York. To be honest i dont see him coming here and i dont know who i would want as the head coach if Cowher doesn't come to Houston.

??? There has to be an opening there first for that to even be considered. Last I looked, they were looking at a playoff spot and we were 5-9.

texanchris
12-20-2010, 02:11 PM
??? There has to be an opening there first for that to even be considered. Last I looked, they were looking at a playoff spot and we were 5-9.

exactly, they play the Packers who might get Aaron Rodgers back and the redskins who looked pretty good yesterday. They lose that Packers game and they will probably be out of the play-offs. New York was embarrassed that they lost in regulation when they had 31-10 lead. If they do fire Coughlin which is likely then Cowher would have to choose between the Giants who have alot of talent on both sides of the ball and Jerome Bettis said hes always wanted to coach there. Its either that or Houston where it might take some time to rebuild and we have yet to make the play-offs in our existence.

beerlover
12-20-2010, 02:12 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a better hire than Cowher. He already runs the same system @ Stanford. could retain the majority of staff including Kubiak as OC. Despite being a former QB he is a defensive minded coach, known as Captain Comeback for a reason. His attitude alone would have gotten Texans into the playoffs @ 10-6.

otisbean
12-20-2010, 02:17 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a better hire than Cowher. He already runs the same system @ Stanford. could retain the majority of staff including Kubiak as OC. Despite being a former QB he is a defensive minded coach, known as Captain Comeback for a reason. His attitude alone would have gotten Texans into the playoffs @ 10-6.

Would love to see Harbaugh. Put me with the crew that's scaredof giving any coach total control. That hasn't worked out real well in the past

Section516
12-20-2010, 02:19 PM
Still would need a GM with Harbaugh. Or do you keep Smith?

utahmark
12-20-2010, 02:23 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a better hire than Cowher. He already runs the same system @ Stanford. could retain the majority of staff including Kubiak as OC. Despite being a former QB he is a defensive minded coach, known as Captain Comeback for a reason. His attitude alone would have gotten Texans into the playoffs @ 10-6.

This is who I want.

DX-TEX
12-20-2010, 02:29 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a better hire than Cowher. He already runs the same system @ Stanford. could retain the majority of staff including Kubiak as OC. Despite being a former QB he is a defensive minded coach, known as Captain Comeback for a reason. His attitude alone would have gotten Texans into the playoffs @ 10-6.

No, We needa proven head coach. No more rolling the dice on OC/DC's with good promise. I want an NFL caliber HC who is proven.

Texan4Ever
12-20-2010, 02:32 PM
No, We needa proven head coach. No more rolling the dice on OC/DC's with good promise. I want an NFL caliber HC who is proven.


*cough cough...Jon Gruden...cough cough*

Double Barrel
12-20-2010, 02:34 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a better hire than Cowher. He already runs the same system @ Stanford. could retain the majority of staff including Kubiak as OC. Despite being a former QB he is a defensive minded coach, known as Captain Comeback for a reason. His attitude alone would have gotten Texans into the playoffs @ 10-6.

I like Cowher, but I'd have no problem with Harbaugh being our coach. He was a starting QB and has won games, unlike the perpetual backup QB mentality that we seem to have as a coach right now. He's also been groomed as a head coach instead of thrust into it from being a coordinator.

tedr
12-20-2010, 02:35 PM
I wouldn't mind Harbaugh, as long as he hires coordinators with some NFL success. You look at KC this year- Haley's only in his second year, but he has Crennel and Weis. I think that's one of the main reasons they've been successful this season.

Hervoyel
12-20-2010, 02:40 PM
Jim Harbaugh would be a better hire than Cowher. He already runs the same system @ Stanford. could retain the majority of staff including Kubiak as OC. Despite being a former QB he is a defensive minded coach, known as Captain Comeback for a reason. His attitude alone would have gotten Texans into the playoffs @ 10-6.


I'm sorry but there is not a more unrealistic scenario on the planet than keeping Kubiak on as OC. Much like the (very little) talk about keeping Capers on as DC back in 2005 this is just not possible. No fired coach in the history of the NFL has ever stepped down to my knowledge to work under his successor.

Does anyone else know if that has ever happened? I'd love to know if it did.

infantrycak
12-20-2010, 02:43 PM
He's also been groomed as a head coach instead of thrust into it from being a coordinator.

Huh? - Harbaugh had two years of paid coaching experience before becoming a HC. He wasn't even a coordinator. His last pre-HC job was QB coach.

tedr
12-20-2010, 02:44 PM
I'm sorry but there is not a more unrealistic scenario on the planet than keeping Kubiak on as OC. Much like the (very little) talk about keeping Capers on as DC back in 2005 this is just not possible. No fired coach in the history of the NFL has ever stepped down to my knowledge to work under his successor.

Does anyone else know if that has ever happened? I'd love to know if it did.

Good point. It wouldn't happen, but even if it was a possibility, would we really want that? The offense has rarely shown up until the 2nd quarter this year- don't think I'd want to repeat that again.

Jagsbch
12-20-2010, 03:04 PM
Cowher? I think he is so overrated

Double Barrel
12-20-2010, 03:08 PM
Huh? - Harbaugh had two years of paid coaching experience before becoming a HC. He wasn't even a coordinator. His last pre-HC job was QB coach.

I was talking about experience before becoming a Texans HC. My post wasn't clear in that regard.

Harbaugh would have 7 years of HC experience (3 @ San Diego & 4 @ Stanford) before taking a Texans job (presuming that he'd take this job). While not NFL head coaching, it's still 7 more years as the guy-in-charge than Kubiak before he got here.

Plus, at this point, a ham sandwich looks more preferable as our HC than Gary.

CharloTex
12-20-2010, 03:11 PM
People, extract your heads from that place where the sun rarely shines!!!

There is ABSOLUTELY no possible way that Kubes stays in Houston if he is relieved of his head coaching duties. THAT NEVER HAPPENS.

Geez, do y'all believe in Jack And The Bean Stalk? Here, I've got some beans I want to sell you.

Seņor Stan
12-20-2010, 03:24 PM
.

Plus, at this point, a ham sandwich looks more preferable as our HC than Gary.

Ham Sandwich??? Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!

Sincerely,

Mama Cass

JB
12-20-2010, 03:26 PM
People, extract your heads from that place where the sun rarely shines!!!

There is ABSOLUTELY no possible way that Kubes stays in Houston if he is relieved of his head coaching duties. THAT NEVER HAPPENS.

Geez, do y'all believe in Jack And The Bean Stalk? Here, I've got some beans I want to sell you.

One person mentioned Kubiak staying as OC as a possibility, yet you are blasting everyone in this thread? Nice! :rolleyes:

spurstexanstros
12-20-2010, 03:30 PM
*cough cough...Jon Gruden...cough cough*

cough smoke and mirrors cough quaterback collector that ruined bucs cough cough

next.

TheCD
12-20-2010, 03:31 PM
No, We needa proven head coach. No more rolling the dice on OC/DC's with good promise. I want an NFL caliber HC who is proven.

We've only done this once, with Kubiak.

Capers took the Panthers to the NFC Championship game as a HC. He had a history of building expansion teams, taking them to the playoffs, and winning games. Until he got here, that is.


We've tried a HC both ways and neither has worked so far. The only things we haven't done are 1) Hire a Super Bowl Winning Head Coach 2) Hire a college coach and 3) Hire the boy at the concession stands who sold the most sodas this year.

Other than 1 or the ham sandwich, I might be interested in number 3 due to the recent rash of failed college coaching attempts.

rmartin65
12-20-2010, 03:35 PM
People, extract your heads from that place where the sun rarely shines!!!

There is ABSOLUTELY no possible way that Kubes stays in Houston if he is relieved of his head coaching duties. THAT NEVER HAPPENS.

Geez, do y'all believe in Jack And The Bean Stalk? Here, I've got some beans I want to sell you.

If I buy the beans do I get free lessons on driving from "one of the 10 best drivers (over the public roadways) in the state of Texas"?

houstonspartan
12-20-2010, 05:00 PM
We've only done this once, with Kubiak.

Capers took the Panthers to the NFC Championship game as a HC. He had a history of building expansion teams, taking them to the playoffs, and winning games. Until he got here, that is.


We've tried a HC both ways and neither has worked so far. The only things we haven't done are 1) Hire a Super Bowl Winning Head Coach 2) Hire a college coach and 3) Hire the boy at the concession stands who sold the most sodas this year.

Other than 1 or the ham sandwich, I might be interested in number 3 due to the recent rash of failed college coaching attempts.

Sorry, but I believe that Capers got lucky in Carolina. If I'm not mistaken, that was a rare, stellar year for free agents, and the players that other teams made available for Carolinam in the expansion draft was a rare collection of talent, if I'm not mistaken.

That was a rare case, I think.

gary
12-20-2010, 05:05 PM
There some pretty good coaches better than Gary of course but not that many all world coaches in the league anymore.

BullNation4Life
12-20-2010, 05:08 PM
We've only done this once, with Kubiak.

Capers took the Panthers to the NFC Championship game as a HC. He had a history of building expansion teams, taking them to the playoffs, and winning games. Until he got here, that is.


We've tried a HC both ways and neither has worked so far. The only things we haven't done are 1) Hire a Super Bowl Winning Head Coach 2) Hire a college coach and 3) Hire the boy at the concession stands who sold the most sodas this year.

Other than 1 or the ham sandwich, I might be interested in number 3 due to the recent rash of failed college coaching attempts.

Expansion teams? You mean team, 1 expansion team that consisted of a lot of pro bowl talent? They changed rules for expansion teams coming into the league becasue of what happened in JAX and Carolina after those years...

beerlover
12-20-2010, 05:58 PM
I'm sorry but there is not a more unrealistic scenario on the planet than keeping Kubiak on as OC. Much like the (very little) talk about keeping Capers on as DC back in 2005 this is just not possible. No fired coach in the history of the NFL has ever stepped down to my knowledge to work under his successor.

Does anyone else know if that has ever happened? I'd love to know if it did.

should be taken more in the context of special relationship he has with ownership. would like to see his contract specifics, options if he is retained, released or heck even traded (Denver) I think he has more value than people here are taking for granted & no I DON'T CARE IF IT HAS EVER HAPPENED, these are strange times, strange times indeed :snowday:

TexanAggie89
12-20-2010, 06:50 PM
Cowher? I think he is so overrated

I wouldnt conisider NO losing seasons in 15 years, with 9 division titles 4 AFC Championship appearances and 2 Super Bowl Apperances overrated....

infantrycak
12-20-2010, 07:19 PM
I wouldnt conisider NO losing seasons in 15 years, with 9 division titles 4 AFC Championship appearances and 2 Super Bowl Apperances overrated....

He had 3 losing seasons but I agree he is not overrated.

houstonspartan
12-20-2010, 09:51 PM
Expansion teams? You mean team, 1 expansion team that consisted of a lot of pro bowl talent? They changed rules for expansion teams coming into the league becasue of what happened in JAX and Carolina after those years...

Yeah, that's what I remember.

Big Lou
12-20-2010, 11:28 PM
Ham Sandwich??? Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!

Sincerely,

Mama Cass

Shouldn't that ne "Noo-khaa, kkchaaa, ka, ka, ka, ka, ka, ka, ka, ka, eeehhhhhhhhhhhh................"

wildroot
12-21-2010, 12:18 AM
I still say that my biggest concern about Cowher is that he's gonna demand total control...

Right now we're out of control so if he wants to grab the Bull by the Horns and TAKE control and right this ship I'm all in. Someone, TAKE CONTROL!

playa465
12-21-2010, 05:38 AM
There is alot of talk about wanting a new HC, and Cowher has come up more than anyone...Personally I think Kubiak has been overwhelmed but I really think he needs a strong former HC on his staff as an assistant HC. Rhodes aint it, maybe b/c he has had too many health probs. Cowher to me would have to transform this team into his mold, and contrary to what some may think we are a finesse team. This team is not geared to physically punish anyone, and Cowher's moniker is tough and power football. For the most part Cowher has had good assistants, so does he really deserve all the credit? My concern is are we willing to go through a transformation that may take 1,2 or 3 yrs to get there? Yeah the Steelers didn't have to wait that long under Cowher, but they always have been based on being a physical, tough and smart team. We have talent based on the current staff's intentions, we just don't have disciplined leadership. That has to start at the top and its obvious Kubiak needs help or is not capable. Gruden is a motivator and has the persona that Kubiak doesn't but other than that he is the same. He too would need someone to get the defense right, and I'm sure Gruden can handle the offense. This year we had a tougher schedule and we knew it would be challenging. We started 4-2 but how may of the wins this year we "good wins"? Yes, I know any win is a good win but outside of the 1st game was there any? The bottom line is I'm confused as to what is wrong with this team, but for all us armchair HCs and QBs be careful for what you wish for. Sometimes change stinks too and if it was my $$$ why should I keep increasing the $$$ I spend with the same results every 4 or 5 years?

Old School
12-21-2010, 07:07 AM
....Personally I think Kubiak has been overwhelmed but I really think he needs a strong former HC on his staff as an assistant HC. ...

You mean like Mike Sherman? Been there, done that. Hire anyone else with more of an assertive personality and then you will have mutiny type situations.

Rhodes aint it, maybe b/c he has had too many health probs. Cowher to me would have to transform this team into his mold, and contrary to what some may think we are a finesse team. This team is not geared to physically punish anyone, and Cowher's moniker is tough and power football.

I seem to recall Kordel Stewart being more of a finesse type of player. Cowher changed the team to fit what personnel he had at the time. I agree that he always had a tough front line and a physical running back. I think with a few changes to the line we can achieve that as well. AF is a tough enough type back and quicksand Matt would probably love to have some beef in front of him.

For the most part Cowher has had good assistants, so does he really deserve all the credit?

Good coaches find the right assistants to do what they want done. They probably don't just hire their buddies without interviewing anyone else for coordinator positions (Frank Bush!!).

My concern is are we willing to go through a transformation that may take 1,2 or 3 yrs to get there?

In my opinion we are stagnant. Yes I will am willing to step back a year or two to eventually move forward.

Yeah the Steelers didn't have to wait that long under Cowher, but they always have been based on being a physical, tough and smart team. We have talent based on the current staff's intentions,

See three statements above. we just don't have disciplined leadership. That has to start at the top and its obvious Kubiak needs help or is not capable. Gruden is a motivator and has the persona that Kubiak doesn't but other than that he is the same. He too would need someone to get the defense right, and I'm sure Gruden can handle the offense.

I like Grudens personality. I just wish I could have seen him be successful with his own players instead of someone else's. From what I have seen, he is a poor evaluator of talent. We have enough of that now.

This year we had a tougher schedule and we knew it would be challenging. We started 4-2 but how may of the wins this year we "good wins"? Yes, I know any win is a good win but outside of the 1st game was there any? The bottom line is I'm confused as to what is wrong with this team, but for all us armchair HCs and QBs be careful for what you wish for. Sometimes change stinks too

Yes change can sometimes stink but what is worse; Staying put and keep things the way they are. Knowing that while you may not have to rebuild, you will most likely never achieve your intended goal because the leadership is not there. Or making a change and while you may suffer some setback, you have a chance to improve on the areas that are keeping you from being successful.

and if it was my $$$ why should I keep increasing the $$$ I spend with the same results every 4 or 5 years?

All the more reason to not accept what you know is not working. Successful people have to gamble from time to time and most probably lose almost as many times as they win. The reason why they are successful is that the keep taking chances.

aaa

GuerillaBlack
12-21-2010, 07:43 AM
cough smoke and mirrors cough quaterback collector that ruined bucs cough cough

next.

Ruined them so much that he gave their franchise their first Super Bowl win (with Brad Johnson at QB, while facing the team that he built in the AFC) and multiple playoff appearances. More than what Kubiak will ever do with the Texans.

playa465
12-21-2010, 08:40 AM
aaa

Quote:
Originally Posted by playa465 View Post
....Personally I think Kubiak has been overwhelmed but I really think he needs a strong former HC on his staff as an assistant HC. ...

You mean like Mike Sherman? Been there, done that. Hire anyone else with more of an assertive personality and then you will have mutiny type situations. I would think it would be a defensive minded coach, Sherman was offensive minded and lived and died with Brett Favre.

Rhodes aint it, maybe b/c he has had too many health probs. Cowher to me would have to transform this team into his mold, and contrary to what some may think we are a finesse team. This team is not geared to physically punish anyone, and Cowher's moniker is tough and power football.

I seem to recall Kordel Stewart being more of a finesse type of player. Cowher changed the team to fit what personnel he had at the time. I agree that he always had a tough front line and a physical running back. I think with a few changes to the line we can achieve that as well. AF is a tough enough type back and quicksand Matt would probably love to have some beef in front of him. Kordell Stewart was not a finesse player he could run, catch and pass...he was tough. There was no change, Cowher's teams were always know to be physical even with Ben throwing.

For the most part Cowher has had good assistants, so does he really deserve all the credit?

Good coaches find the right assistants to do what they want done. They probably don't just hire their buddies without interviewing anyone else for coordinator positions (Frank Bush!!). True True but hell does Kubes know what he wants out of a defense other than play smart and not make mistakes? (All coaches want that)

My concern is are we willing to go through a transformation that may take 1,2 or 3 yrs to get there?

In my opinion we are stagnant. Yes I will am willing to step back a year or two to eventually move forward. And if we go 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, 8-8 with a new regime then what? What would be different?

Yeah the Steelers didn't have to wait that long under Cowher, but they always have been based on being a physical, tough and smart team. We have talent based on the current staff's intentions,

See three statements above. we just don't have disciplined leadership. That has to start at the top and its obvious Kubiak needs help or is not capable. Gruden is a motivator and has the persona that Kubiak doesn't but other than that he is the same. He too would need someone to get the defense right, and I'm sure Gruden can handle the offense.

I like Grudens personality. I just wish I could have seen him be successful with his own players instead of someone else's. From what I have seen, he is a poor evaluator of talent. We have enough of that now. My worry about Gruden is that he can handle the O just fine but what would he do about our D

This year we had a tougher schedule and we knew it would be challenging. We started 4-2 but how may of the wins this year we "good wins"? Yes, I know any win is a good win but outside of the 1st game was there any? The bottom line is I'm confused as to what is wrong with this team, but for all us armchair HCs and QBs be careful for what you wish for. Sometimes change stinks too

Yes change can sometimes stink but what is worse; Staying put and keep things the way they are. Knowing that while you may not have to rebuild, you will most likely never achieve your intended goal because the leadership is not there. Or making a change and while you may suffer some setback, you have a chance to improve on the areas that are keeping you from being successful.Isnt this what we thought when Kubiak was hired?

and if it was my $$$ why should I keep increasing the $$$ I spend with the same results every 4 or 5 years?

All the more reason to not accept what you know is not working. Successful people have to gamble from time to time and most probably lose almost as many times as they win. The reason why they are successful is that the keep taking chances. In football the reason successful people are successful is because they win more than they lose, not matter how often you gamble

TheCD
12-21-2010, 09:29 AM
Sorry, but I believe that Capers got lucky in Carolina. If I'm not mistaken, that was a rare, stellar year for free agents, and the players that other teams made available for Carolinam in the expansion draft was a rare collection of talent, if I'm not mistaken.

That was a rare case, I think.

Expansion teams? You mean team, 1 expansion team that consisted of a lot of pro bowl talent? They changed rules for expansion teams coming into the league becasue of what happened in JAX and Carolina after those years...

It doesn't matter if Capers was lucky or if the rules were different. He still had a proven history of getting it done with an expansion team and we took that chance. My point that we've tried with a coordinator turned head coach and a former head coach as well still stands.

scourge
12-21-2010, 09:46 AM
Kordell Stewart was not a finesse player he could run, catch and pass...he was tough. There was no change, Cowher's teams were always know to be physical even with Ben throwing.



You forgot Punter as well

disaacks3
12-21-2010, 10:49 AM
It doesn't matter if Capers was lucky or if the rules were different. He still had a proven history of getting it done with an expansion team and we took that chance. My point that we've tried with a coordinator turned head coach and a former head coach as well still stands. ....and if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle!

1 data item does NOT indicate a trend. :wadepalm:

TheCD
12-21-2010, 11:10 AM
....and if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle!

1 data item does NOT indicate a trend. :wadepalm:

You seem to be missing my point. I am not making any statements about whether hiring Capers was a good idea.

My only point is that we have not merely tried to hire coordinators who haven't had head coaching success in the NFL. Call Capers' stint with the Panthers what you will, but you can't say it wasn't successful.

CharloTex
12-21-2010, 11:22 AM
If I buy the beans do I get free lessons on driving from "one of the 10 best drivers (over the public roadways) in the state of Texas"?

As I said then and I say now, I can back it up. Read the challenge I presented in that thread and answer it. Then I'll correct you.

Back on point, no I'm not jumping on anyone who DIDN'T suggest that Kubiak would stay on as OC. Why would I do that? There may have been only one person in this thread but there are many paople who have uttered this nonsense. It is ALL of the people, not just this thread I am am trying to convince of the insanity of that idea.

Texanmike02
12-21-2010, 11:34 AM
No, We needa proven head coach. No more rolling the dice on OC/DC's with good promise. I want an NFL caliber HC who is proven.

Dom Capers is your guy!

Mike

Runner
12-21-2010, 11:51 AM
Call Capers' stint with the Panthers what you will, but you can't say it wasn't successful.

Sometimes it seems that any success ANY NFL team has had was due mainly to luck and circumstance. The lone exception to this is the Texans "successful" 9-7 season, which was due to doing things right. It then follows that any seemingly successful coach is seriously flawed, because the perceived success is directly traceable to that same luck and circumstance. Therefore, any other coach has at least one flaw that makes him inferior to the coach that had the lone success in the NFL.

It's like twelve dimensional physics. It can't be modeled in the real world, but as long as it's internally consistent it can be defended as "correct".

infantrycak
12-21-2010, 11:56 AM
No, We needa proven head coach. No more rolling the dice on OC/DC's with good promise. I want an NFL caliber HC who is proven.

Division leaders:

New England - 2nd time HC.
Pittsburgh - 1st time HC
Indy - 1st time HC
Kansas City - 1st time HC
Philly - long time but 1st time HC
Chicago - 1st time HC
Atlanta - 1st time HC
St. Louis - 1st time HC

Texans_Chick
12-21-2010, 12:30 PM
I was talking about experience before becoming a Texans HC. My post wasn't clear in that regard.

Harbaugh would have 7 years of HC experience (3 @ San Diego & 4 @ Stanford) before taking a Texans job (presuming that he'd take this job). While not NFL head coaching, it's still 7 more years as the guy-in-charge than Kubiak before he got here.

Plus, at this point, a ham sandwich looks more preferable as our HC than Gary.

The Texans have never had a top 10 defense. And you are going to get a rookie NFL head coach with an offensive background to run this thing?

Whoever the next head coach is needs to have instant credibility with the fanbase. No matter how they sell Harbaugh, he isn't going to have that. They need experienced NFL people running the show too.

Be careful all you people who want just any change. This is going to be a hard team to fix. Harder because of the uncertainty of the labor situation.

/don't want to hear "How's that hopey changey thing going for you?" if next year season implodes because the wrong changes were made.

Mr teX
12-21-2010, 12:48 PM
Yeah, folks crack me up with this "proven" head coach garbage. They forget we already had that in Capers & we sucked a helluva lot worse than we do now.

Yeah, i get it, some changes need to be made, but as TC says be careful what you wish for b/c just like we could land a Bill Cowher, we stand more of a chance of landing some garbage re-tred like a Dick Jauron or Mike Tice...

Surreal McCoy
12-21-2010, 12:57 PM
Division leaders:

New England - 2nd time HC.
Pittsburgh - 1st time HC
Indy - 1st time HC
Kansas City - 1st time HC
Philly - long time but 1st time HC
Chicago - 1st time HC
Atlanta - 1st time HC
St. Louis - 1st time HC


No need to argue with facts, it'll just end up making them mancrush that much harder :embarrass:

NitroGSXR
12-21-2010, 12:58 PM
The Texans have never had a top 10 defense. And you are going to get a rookie NFL head coach with an offensive background to run this thing?

Whoever the next head coach is needs to have instant credibility with the fanbase. No matter how they sell Harbaugh, he isn't going to have that. They need experienced NFL people running the show too.

Be careful all you people who want just any change. This is going to be a hard team to fix. Harder because of the uncertainty of the labor situation.

/don't want to hear "How's that hopey changey thing going for you?" if next year season implodes because the wrong changes were made.

I'm neither a Kubiak sunshiner nor a Kubiak thundercloud. I think we have bigger problems than Gary Kubiak and that starts with Rick Smith.

That being said... As the last five years have shown us a consistent sub-500 overall record... what makes you think that no change could effect change? I'm a bottom dollar kind of guy. I'm fine with winning the Super Bowl with the worst-ranked whatever. Bottom line... we're not winning football games AGAIN.

Surreal McCoy
12-21-2010, 01:01 PM
I think we have bigger problems than Gary Kubiak and that starts with Rick Smith.



Don't you see, it's like Six Degrees of Gary Kubiak, except there's only one degree, and Gary Kubiak is Hitler...

infantrycak
12-21-2010, 01:10 PM
Yeah, folks crack me up with this "proven" head coach garbage.

What is the long list of coaches who have been successful with two different teams? None has ever won a SB and then gone on to win with another team. Belichick doesn't count as he was run out of town as a DC in over his head as an HC in his first gig. I guess the best example is Parcells but he kept leaving teams in the lurch and never got back to the SB. It isn't a reason to not change but folks shouldn't learn the wrong lesson. Just because a 1st time HC didn't work out this time doesn't mean a different 1st time HC wouldn't work the next time.

texanhead08
12-21-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm neither a Kubiak sunshiner nor a Kubiak thundercloud. I think we have bigger problems than Gary Kubiak and that starts with Rick Smith.

That being said... As the last five years have shown us a consistent sub-500 overall record... what makes you think that no change could effect change? I'm a bottom dollar kind of guy. I'm fine with winning the Super Bowl with the worst-ranked whatever. Bottom line... we're not winning football games AGAIN.

I think its a dream of a lot of Texan fans to hire Bill Cowher but a more reasonable reality is to hire a good talent evaluator as gm and let him pick his own coach.

The orginization needs a chain of command and thats something that we haven't had in 9yrs.

NitroGSXR
12-21-2010, 02:13 PM
I think its a dream of a lot of Texan fans to hire Bill Cowher but a more reasonable reality is to hire a good talent evaluator as gm and let him pick his own coach.

The orginization needs a chain of command and thats something that we haven't had in 9yrs.

I am neither on or off the Cowher bandwagon. I am indifferent because I have no say nor authority in the matter Whoever they hire or don't fire... I will live with it because I root for the uniform and uniform alone.

That being said...

And how would you feel if Cowher became the GM and hired himself as HC?

Double Barrel
12-21-2010, 02:22 PM
The Texans have never had a top 10 defense. And you are going to get a rookie NFL head coach with an offensive background to run this thing?

Whoever the next head coach is needs to have instant credibility with the fanbase. No matter how they sell Harbaugh, he isn't going to have that. They need experienced NFL people running the show too.

Be careful all you people who want just any change. This is going to be a hard team to fix. Harder because of the uncertainty of the labor situation.

/don't want to hear "How's that hopey changey thing going for you?" if next year season implodes because the wrong changes were made.

What on earth makes you think that Gary "35-42" Kubiak can fix it then?

It's not "change to want change'. That's a cop-out. If McNair fired Kubiak and promoted Dennison, that's change. But it's not welcomed.

ANYONE WE GET IS A GAMBLE. That's the first thing to accept. We can bring Parcells in here and there is no guarantee that he can fix it.

However, we have a known commodity with Kubiak. The guy has proven that he can only get this team so far, and now he's backsliding. We can slice and dice and analyze his tenure until we're blue the face, but the end result is still the same: 5 years of suck, no playoffs, 35-42.

But to be scared of change is a sad state of accepting perpetual mediocrity. Keeping the status quo because the future is uncertain is Mamby-Pamby Land. Unfortunately, this seems to be where McNair was born and raised.

Mr teX
12-21-2010, 03:03 PM
What on earth makes you think that Gary "35-42" Kubiak can fix it then?

It's not "change to want change'. That's a cop-out. If McNair fired Kubiak and promoted Dennison, that's change. But it's not welcomed.

ANYONE WE GET IS A GAMBLE. That's the first thing to accept. We can bring Parcells in here and there is no guarantee that he can fix it.

However, we have a known commodity with Kubiak. The guy has proven that he can only get this team so far, and now he's backsliding. We can slice and dice and analyze his tenure until we're blue the face, but the end result is still the same: 5 years of suck, no playoffs, 35-42.

But to be scared of change is a sad state of accepting perpetual mediocrity. Keeping the status quo because the future is uncertain is Mamby-Pamby Land. Unfortunately, this seems to be where McNair was born and raised.

This is ridiculous. NOONE HAS SAID THAT THEY DON'T WANT CHANGE OR THAT THEY ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

But you guys keep raving on about change like it's written in stone that the next coach that comes in is going to turn this team into winners & all us "sunshiners" keep trying to remind you guys of is that change & success are 2 mutually exclusive things. We might land Cowher, but it means zilch in the success part until he actually gets here & leads the team to it. The dolphins thought that they were returning to the superbowl when they landed johnson..obviously, they were wrong. The browns thought that belichick was a moron...they were wrong.

It could also be that some define success differently too. Some are thinking that success is going to the superbowl others are just thirsty for a playoff game.

We all feel the same way, we just disagree about what needs to be done to get there & how deep the fail goes in this organization.

Hookem Horns
12-21-2010, 03:07 PM
This is ridiculous. NOONE HAS SAID THAT THEY DON'T WANT CHANGE OR THAT THEY ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

But you guys keep raving on about change like it's written in stone that the next coach that comes in is going to turn this team into winners & all us "sunshiners" keep trying to remind you guys of is that change & success are 2 mutually exclusive things. We might land Cowher, but it means zilch in the success part. It could also be that some define success different. Some are thinking that success is going to superbowl others are just thirsty for a playoff game.

We are all feel the same way, we just disagree about how to get there & what we will find when we get there.

That's not what DB is saying at all. He simply saying that ANYONE will be a gamble because NO ONE is sure thing.

Kubiak is not a gamble. We know he sucks. In a casino it's really not gambling if you know you are going to lose. It's just throwing away money.

For the Texans keeping Kubiak means throwing away more time and seasons.

HoustonFrog
12-21-2010, 03:23 PM
This is ridiculous. NOONE HAS SAID THAT THEY DON'T WANT CHANGE OR THAT THEY ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

But you guys keep raving on about change like it's written in stone that the next coach that comes in is going to turn this team into winners & all us "sunshiners" keep trying to remind you guys of is that change & success are 2 mutually exclusive things. We might land Cowher, but it means zilch in the success part until he actually gets here & leads the team to it. The dolphins thought that they were returning to the superbowl when they landed johnson..obviously, they were wrong. The browns thought that belichick was a moron...they were wrong.

It could also be that some define success differently too. Some are thinking that success is going to the superbowl others are just thirsty for a playoff game.

We all feel the same way, we just disagree about what needs to be done to get there & how deep the fail goes in this organization.

It's this part that bugs people. Why are people so scared? Sitting in neutral hoping that the same thing that has not worked for 5 years is worse than taking a leap of faith with a proven commodity. You think all of those teams that are playoff bound with 1st time coaches(their first HC gig) were nervous?Sure, but they pulled the trigger and it paid off quickly. The worst thing you can be in the NFL is comfortable and the Texans are an old, beaten in, leather shoe where sliding your foot into 8-8 feels right

I also hate that Belichick example. It is like the Landry example last year for sticking with Kubes. It is an instance that rarely happens and the Cleveland gig helped Belichick down the road. If Kubiak succeeds down the road because of this, good for him but it doesn't mean he would have succeeded here. Different owners, GMs, ways of doing business, etc. Right now it is a failure and taking the shot is what is needed. Heck, even if they don't go Cowher, maybe they get their own version of Belichick in another coach.

That's not what DB is saying at all. He simply saying that ANYONE will be a gamble because NO ONE is sure thing.

Kubiak is not a gamble. We know he sucks. In a casino it's really not gambling if you know you are going to lose. It's just throwing away money.

For the Texans keeping Kubiak means throwing away more time and seasons.

What he said

Double Barrel
12-21-2010, 03:58 PM
This is ridiculous. NOONE HAS SAID THAT THEY DON'T WANT CHANGE OR THAT THEY ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.

Damn, man, not sure if you're just being obtuse or if you really cannot read and comprehend a post.

I'll type slow, maybe that'll help you out... :fingergun:

Bob McNair - you know, the guy that owns the team - stated that 5-8 was "on the right track". By all accounts, it does appear that he plans on retaining Kubiak for a 6th season.

Now we could all be wrong, but "we" includes 98% of the fan base, all local media, including media being paid by the Texans (Vandamere, Tillman, Allen).

THAT IS ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY BY THE OWNER.

And there have been a small number of folks who have advocated keeping Kubiak because of fear of change, so perhaps you need to read more instead of banging on the keyboard at those that disagree with you.

But you guys keep raving on about change like it's written in stone that the next coach that comes in is going to turn this team into winners & all us "sunshiners" keep trying to remind you guys of is that change & success are 2 mutually exclusive things.

Where did I say that? Oh wait, I didn't and your talking out of your ass.

My words were specific: "ANYONE WE GET IS A GAMBLE. That's the first thing to accept. We can bring Parcells in here and there is no guarantee that he can fix it."

Ridiculous, indeed, especially since you quoted that point in your own post.

It could also be that some define success differently too. Some are thinking that success is going to the superbowl others are just thirsty for a playoff game.

Simple question: Does 35-42 and no playoffs in 5 years define success to you?

Fine if it does, but that just means that your standards are much, much lower than the average for this fan base. I think the overwhelming majority of Texans fans clearly have playoffs as the standard for defining success.

Some of could give a rat's ass about stats and rankings and all that fluff. What matter is wins and losses and post-season play at the end of the day.

But no matter how you slice and dice it, unless you've set your sights on a losing standard, Kubiak's team has clearly failed to meet anyone's definition of success (outside of monetary, of course).

We all feel the same way, we just disagree about what needs to be done to get there & how deep the fail goes in this organization.

Clearly we don't all feel the same way or you'd at least try to do a better job of comprehending points instead of screaming nonsense.

That's not what DB is saying at all. He simply saying that ANYONE will be a gamble because NO ONE is sure thing.

Kubiak is not a gamble. We know he sucks. In a casino it's really not gambling if you know you are going to lose. It's just throwing away money.

For the Texans keeping Kubiak means throwing away more time and seasons.

Thanks, Hookem. You understand where I'm coming from and said it much more eloquently than I did.

Mr teX
12-21-2010, 04:03 PM
It's this part that bugs people. Why are people so scared? Sitting in neutral hoping that the same thing that has not worked for 5 years is worse than taking a leap of faith with a proven commodity. You think all of those teams that are playoff bound with 1st time coaches(their first HC gig) were nervous?Sure, but they pulled the trigger and it paid off quickly. The worst thing you can be in the NFL is comfortable and the Texans are an old, beaten in, leather shoe where sliding your foot into 8-8 feels right

I also hate that Belichick example. It is like the Landry example last year for sticking with Kubes. It is an instance that rarely happens and the Cleveland gig helped Belichick down the road. If Kubiak succeeds down the road because of this, good for him but it doesn't mean he would have succeeded here. Different owners, GMs, ways of doing business, etc. Right now it is a failure and taking the shot is what is needed. Heck, even if they don't go Cowher, maybe they get their own version of Belichick in another coach.



What he said

Noone is scared, we're just being realistic in our own sense. Even though we're going no where fast (or at all for that matter) with this regime, I think we are more willing to acknowledge that things can definitely get worse if in fact another clown is brought in. This is something you guys don't seem to want to acknowledge, It's change = success period.

So while you guys call us the "sunshine club" for putting the good & bad scenarios on equal footing, we should in fact be calling you guys the sunshine club b/c ya'll aren't even acknowledging that an even worse situation could arise out of firing Kubiak. And, given my view of this organization, i'd say this is the more likely scenario if changes aren't made above kubiak as well.

Hookem Horns
12-21-2010, 04:08 PM
I also hate that Belichick example. It is like the Landry example last year for sticking with Kubes. It is an instance that rarely happens and the Cleveland gig helped Belichick down the road. If Kubiak succeeds down the road because of this, good for him but it doesn't mean he would have succeeded here. Different owners, GMs, ways of doing business, etc. Right now it is a failure and taking the shot is what is needed. Heck, even if they don't go Cowher, maybe they get their own version of Belichick in another coach.



Belichick was not good in Cleveland and deserved to get fired there. He went back to coaching under Parcells with the Jets and probably learned where he went wrong in his previous job.

Meanwhile the Browns hired Ted Marchibroda, figured out quickly that he wasn't any good either and replaced him with Brian Billick who eventually won a Super Bowl for them as the Ravens.

Double Barrel
12-21-2010, 04:12 PM
Belichick was not good in Cleveland and deserved to get fired there. He went back to coaching under Parcells with the Jets and probably learned where he went wrong in his previous job.

Meanwhile the Browns hired Ted Marchibroda, figured out quickly that he wasn't any good either and replaced him with Brian Billick who eventually won a Super Bowl for them as the Ravens.

Interesting thing about Belichick. He was 36-44 in Cleveland (eerily close to 35-42, 'eh), but still more successful than Kubiak when the Browns posted an 11-5 record and wen to the playoffs.

If Kubiak had even one playoff appearance, I don't think we'd see the massive groundswell against him that we see now.

gtexan02
12-21-2010, 04:15 PM
That's not what DB is saying at all. He simply saying that ANYONE will be a gamble because NO ONE is sure thing.

Kubiak is not a gamble. We know he sucks. In a casino it's really not gambling if you know you are going to lose. It's just throwing away money.

For the Texans keeping Kubiak means throwing away more time and seasons.

Keeping Kubiak is like betting on "Black" over and over again at roulette.

Maybe you'll get extremely lucky and make some big money
More than likely you'll get close to breaking even
Although the odds are that you'll fall just sort of even that

Hookem Horns
12-21-2010, 04:16 PM
I think we are more willing to acknowledge that things can definitely get worse if in fact another clown is brought in.

OK, you are saying "another" clown. That means you recognize that Kubiak is a "clown". "Clown" meaning loser in this context.

If we bring in another coach do you know for sure that he will be a "clown"? NO you don't. Do you already know Kubiack is a "clown" ..YES.

Let me give you an analogy.

Let's say you are working on your car and I am helping you. You see a bolt and are not real sure of the size. You say "Kevin, hand me a 5/8 socket, this bolt might be 5/8". I hand you the socket and it is too large. What are you going to do now? Set there and keep trying with the 5/8 socket?

If you keep trying that socket over and over again do you think it will evenutally do the job? Of course not, you are going to ask me for a smaller socket that might work because it's a guarantee that the 5/8 socket isn't going to cut it. Is there a chance that the next socket isn't going to work either? Sure but common sense dictates that you will need to try another one.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9312/socket.jpg

Mr teX
12-21-2010, 04:30 PM
Damn, man, not sure if you're just being obtuse or if you really cannot read and comprehend a post.

I'll type slow, maybe that'll help you out... :fingergun:

Bob McNair - you know, the guy that owns the team - stated that 5-8 was "on the right track". By all accounts, it does appear that he plans on retaining Kubiak for a 6th season.


Now we could all be wrong, but "we" includes 98% of the fan base, all local media, including media being paid by the Texans (Vandamere, Tillman, Allen).

THAT IS ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY BY THE OWNER.

[
And there have been a small number of folks who have advocated keeping Kubiak because of fear of change, so perhaps you need to read more instead of banging on the keyboard at those that disagree with you.



Where did I say that? Oh wait, I didn't and your talking out of your ass.

My words were specific: "ANYONE WE GET IS A GAMBLE. That's the first thing to accept. We can bring Parcells in here and there is no guarantee that he can fix it."

Ridiculous, indeed, especially since you quoted that point in your own post.



Simple question: Does 35-42 and no playoffs in 5 years define success to you?

Fine if it does, but that just means that your standards are much, much lower than the average for this fan base. I think the overwhelming majority of Texans fans clearly have playoffs as the standard for defining success.

Some of could give a rat's ass about stats and rankings and all that fluff. What matter is wins and losses and post-season play at the end of the day.

But no matter how you slice and dice it, unless you've set your sights on a losing standard, Kubiak's team has clearly failed to meet anyone's definition of success (outside of monetary, of course).



Clearly we don't all feel the same way or you'd at least try to do a better job of comprehending points instead of screaming nonsense.




Thanks, Hookem. You understand where I'm coming from and said it much more eloquently than I did.

Your whole post & argument is an epic fail :wadepalm:

If your reading comprehension was so great, you'd remember that Mcnair also said in the same article that he was sure they would look at some things & make changes...you don't have to be a genius to know that this could mean any changes anywhere on the team & is actually quite a bit more concrete than that " right track" comment you guys keep reading into.

& LoL, Is that 98% official? Do you really wanna base your argument on the local media opinion? That same local media that just "knew we were gonna take Bush over Mario in 2006 & just knew that VY was gonna be a great NFL qb? Really? :fingergun:

You're the only one screaming nonsense & It seems some people can't talk about this subject without getting :pissed:. You're also the only one pouting like a baby b/c you haven't gotten your way.

Rey
12-21-2010, 04:38 PM
Damn, man, not sure if you're just being obtuse or if you really cannot read and comprehend a post.

I'll type slow, maybe that'll help you out... :fingergun:

Bob McNair - you know, the guy that owns the team - stated that 5-8 was "on the right track". By all accounts, it does appear that he plans on retaining Kubiak for a 6th season.

Now we could all be wrong, but "we" includes 98% of the fan base, all local media, including media being paid by the Texans (Vandamere, Tillman, Allen).

THAT IS ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY BY THE OWNER.

And there have been a small number of folks who have advocated keeping Kubiak because of fear of change, so perhaps you need to read more instead of banging on the keyboard at those that disagree with you.



Where did I say that? Oh wait, I didn't and your talking out of your ass.

My words were specific: "ANYONE WE GET IS A GAMBLE. That's the first thing to accept. We can bring Parcells in here and there is no guarantee that he can fix it."

Ridiculous, indeed, especially since you quoted that point in your own post.



Simple question: Does 35-42 and no playoffs in 5 years define success to you?

Fine if it does, but that just means that your standards are much, much lower than the average for this fan base. I think the overwhelming majority of Texans fans clearly have playoffs as the standard for defining success.

Some of could give a rat's ass about stats and rankings and all that fluff. What matter is wins and losses and post-season play at the end of the day.

But no matter how you slice and dice it, unless you've set your sights on a losing standard, Kubiak's team has clearly failed to meet anyone's definition of success (outside of monetary, of course).



Clearly we don't all feel the same way or you'd at least try to do a better job of comprehending points instead of screaming nonsense.



Thanks, Hookem. You understand where I'm coming from and said it much more eloquently than I did.


Great post.

Hookem Horns
12-21-2010, 04:41 PM
Your whole post & argument is an epic fail :wadepalm:

If your reading comprehension was so great, you'd remember that Mcnair also said in the same article that he was sure they would look at some things & make changes...you don't have to be a genius to know that this could mean any changes anywhere on the team & is actually quite a bit more concrete than that " right track" comment you guys keep reading into.

& LoL, Is that 98% official? Do you really wanna base your argument on the local media opinion? That same local media that just "knew we were gonna take Bush over Mario in 2006 & just knew that VY was gonna be a great NFL qb? Really? :fingergun:

You're the only one screaming nonsense & It seems some people can't talk about this subject without getting :pissed:. You're also the only one pouting like a baby b/c you haven't gotten your way.

Since we are turning into the Lions I wonder if the NFL someday will have us playing every Thanksgiving Day.

Rey
12-21-2010, 05:44 PM
If Kubiak had even one playoff appearance, I don't think we'd see the massive groundswell against him that we see now.

Interestingly enough, I think he would have been more easy to fire.

Look at Belichick with Cleveland, and Romeo Crennel in Cleveland

Look at Childress in Minn...

I think if a guy has a good year, makes the play-offs but falls flat on their face the next season they are easier to let go because many people feel like they have reached their maximum level with the organization...

I think Kubiak's incremental improvements in record have lulled people into thinking that he could somehow be the guy that propelled us to the next level.

Doppelganger
12-21-2010, 06:27 PM
I'm in.

COWHER POWER!

Hookem Horns
12-21-2010, 06:47 PM
I think Kubiak's incremental improvements in record have lulled people into thinking that he could somehow be the guy that propelled us to the next level.

Some coaches' maximum level is taking their team to the playoffs before they start falling off, others (cough Kubiak cough) it's 9-7 and no playoffs.

Considering that the Texans will probably be 5-11 or 6-10 the "incremental improvement" theory is out the window.

Texecutioner
12-21-2010, 07:16 PM
Your whole post & argument is an epic fail :wadepalm:

If your reading comprehension was so great, you'd remember that Mcnair also said in the same article that he was sure they would look at some things & make changes...you don't have to be a genius to know that this could mean any changes anywhere on the team & is actually quite a bit more concrete than that " right track" comment you guys keep reading into.

& LoL, Is that 98% official? Do you really wanna base your argument on the local media opinion? That same local media that just "knew we were gonna take Bush over Mario in 2006 & just knew that VY was gonna be a great NFL qb? Really? :fingergun:

You're the only one screaming nonsense & It seems some people can't talk about this subject without getting :pissed:. You're also the only one pouting like a baby b/c you haven't gotten your way.

By your own admission you called yourself a bias homer, so your arguments went right out the window of validity right then even though they already had before that when it comes to this situation on this football team.

It's clear that you're afraid of change. Change scares you and being simply okay is what gives you comfort. It won't matter what the name of the coach is, because you'll clearly support him either way because he's hired here so by default he has to work at some point. That's what I've got from your posts anyhow. Change is frightening, so we should just stick to what we have because they lose games in an exciting facsion more often than none.

HoustonFrog
12-22-2010, 07:20 AM
Noone is scared, we're just being realistic in our own sense. Even though we're going no where fast (or at all for that matter) with this regime, I think we are more willing to acknowledge that things can definitely get worse if in fact another clown is brought in. This is something you guys don't seem to want to acknowledge, It's change = success period.

So while you guys call us the "sunshine club" for putting the good & bad scenarios on equal footing, we should in fact be calling you guys the sunshine club b/c ya'll aren't even acknowledging that an even worse situation could arise out of firing Kubiak. And, given my view of this organization, i'd say this is the more likely scenario if changes aren't made above kubiak as well.

You are inferring facts that haven't been stated. No one said a new guy fixes all that ails the Texans or that a new person won't fail. Not one person who wants a new person has stated that. What most of us are stating is that the current system ALREADY has been a fail. It FAILED personnel wise...I think 5 starters from the last 4 drafts. Bad FA signings. It FAILED coaching wise....Kubes brought in his own D Coordinator (twice) and on the field they are regressing. It is 5 years of nothing. None of that can be disputed. Both Smith and Kubiak should go. They have their hands in every decision out there. If I had my druthers I'd go get a top personnel guy/GM. Put him in place and fire Smith. Have him evaluate players for the rest of the season. At seasons end, Kubiak is gone and that search begins...whether is it Cowher or a top coordinator. Then start making moves....prepare for draft, cut dead weight and contracts, etc. I know this is harder with next years uncertainty but it needs to be done to have things in place.

BTW, your comments on the DB post.... You are saying that McNair said he wants change...so it should happen. This is the same man who said we were on the right track before a horrible loss. So I have a hard time thinking anyone knows what is going through Bob's mind.

cdollaz
12-22-2010, 07:47 AM
I think we are more willing to acknowledge that things can definitely get worse

I'm really trying to get my head around how things can definitely get worse when WE ARE IN LAST PLACE!!!!

BullNation4Life
12-22-2010, 10:07 AM
I'm really trying to get my head around how things can definitely get worse when WE ARE IN LAST PLACE!!!!

The can be in LAST PLACE and keep Kubiak for next year...That is seemingly worse...

Mr teX
12-22-2010, 10:30 AM
I'm really trying to get my head around how things can definitely get worse when WE ARE IN LAST PLACE!!!!

Think 2008-2009 Detroit Lions, 2008 Dolphins etc....things can ALWAYS be worse than they are now.

Mr teX
12-22-2010, 10:51 AM
You are inferring facts that haven't been stated. No one said a new guy fixes all that ails the Texans or that a new person won't fail. Not one person who wants a new person has stated that. What most of us are stating is that the current system ALREADY has been a fail. It FAILED personnel wise...I think 5 starters from the last 4 drafts. Bad FA signings. It FAILED coaching wise....Kubes brought in his own D Coordinator (twice) and on the field they are regressing. It is 5 years of nothing. None of that cam be disputed. Both Smith and Kubiak should go. They have their hands in every decision out there. If I had my druthers I'd go get a top personnel guy/GM. Put him in place and fire Smith. Have him evaluate players for the rest of the season. At seasons end, Kubiak is gone and that search begins...whether is it Cowher or a top coordinator. Then start making moves....prepare for draft, cut dead wight and contracts, etc. I know this is harder with next years uncertainty but it needs to be done to have things in place.

BTW, your comprehension of what DB is an epic fail. You are saying that McNair said he wants change...so it should happen. This is the same man who said we were on the right track before a horrible loss. So I have a hard time thinking anyone knows what is going through Bob's mind.


Great post HF & this is what myself & others have been trying to say..This organization's problems don't start with kubiak & they won't end with him alone being fired as Rick Smith imo equally shares in the blame for this product. As far as i'm concerned, Smith & Kubiak are a packaged deal & are equally culpable for this teams failures & they both need to be gone for us to develop into a winning organization. We've got enough Fire Kubiak threads, where's the fire smith threads?

ChampionTexan
12-22-2010, 11:23 AM
Think 2008-2009 Detroit Lions, 2008 Dolphins etc....things can ALWAYS be worse than they are now.

Yep, and that can never happen if we simply stand pat.

Signed,
Two losses (at least) more than we had last year.

P.S. Remember that both the 0-16 Lions and the 2009 Dolphins had made minimal, if any, coaching changes from the prior season.

infantrycak
12-22-2010, 11:33 AM
P.S. Remember that both the 0-16 Lions and the 2009 Dolphins had made minimal, if any, coaching changes from the prior season.

Pretty sure he was referring to the 1-15 2007 Dolphins. They had made a HC change and QB change. The 0-16 Lions didn't change HC - they changed QB, RB and WR and Matt Millen played a big role in their failure.

ChampionTexan
12-22-2010, 12:00 PM
Pretty sure he was referring to the 1-15 2007 Dolphins. They had made a HC change and QB change. The 0-16 Lions didn't change HC - they changed QB, RB and WR.

Yeah, you're probably right - I couldn't figure out why the '08 Dolphins were in there, and made what it probably the wrong guess. Interesting that he inadvertently (apparently) named a team that improved by 10 wins and made the playoffs on the heels of a coaching change.

The bottom line is there's no guarantees of anything - getting better, getting worse, staying the same - with either a change or standing pat (from a HC standpoint).

I believe most proponents of change are saying:

1. We think a change at HC (and hopefully other spots too) would signal both an ability to recognize mediocrity and an unwillingness to accept it on the part of the owner. Many of us have a concern about that at this point.

2. We want to see meaningful improvement in the performance of this team, and we have a better chance of achieving that with a new HC than we do with the current one.

No unrealistic expectations of guaranteed improvement, or denial of the possibility of regression - just going with what we consider to be the best odds of getting us where we want to be.

Double Barrel
12-22-2010, 01:23 PM
Your whole post & argument is an epic fail :wadepalm:

If your reading comprehension was so great, you'd remember that Mcnair also said in the same article that he was sure they would look at some things & make changes...you don't have to be a genius to know that this could mean any changes anywhere on the team & is actually quite a bit more concrete than that " right track" comment you guys keep reading into.

& LoL, Is that 98% official? Do you really wanna base your argument on the local media opinion? That same local media that just "knew we were gonna take Bush over Mario in 2006 & just knew that VY was gonna be a great NFL qb? Really? :fingergun:

You're the only one screaming nonsense & It seems some people can't talk about this subject without getting :pissed:. You're also the only one pouting like a baby b/c you haven't gotten your way.

LOL that I'm pissed (that's news to me!). This is an entertainment medium, man. I don't take it that seriously, and certainly not to the extent that you appear to take yourself. My life is the same if they win or lose and it's nothing but a thing to just enjoy and have fun with other fans about the highs and the lows. But in perspective of life, this stuff is nothing to get emotional about. I feel sorry for your inability to understand this simple concept.

I had actually written more of a reply to the above drivel, but you're just not worth it. Something about the old saying of lowering myself to a fool's level and getting beat by experience comes to mind.

By your own admission you called yourself a bias homer, so your arguments went right out the window of validity right then even though they already had before that when it comes to this situation on this football team.

It's clear that you're afraid of change. Change scares you and being simply okay is what gives you comfort. It won't matter what the name of the coach is, because you'll clearly support him either way because he's hired here so by default he has to work at some point. That's what I've got from your posts anyhow. Change is frightening, so we should just stick to what we have because they lose games in an exciting facsion more often than none.

Well said, Tex.