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Texan4Ever
12-15-2010, 04:31 PM
I wanted to compile a list of the top prospects in the defensive secondary such as corner-backs and safeties in the 2011 NFL Draft. Since this is clearly a big need for the Texans, I would like to post my thoughts and YouTube highlights on each specific player. Please feel free to post your thoughts, comments, or videos in this thread.

The list is in no particular order...


Cornerbacks


1.) Prince Amukamara (Nebraska)

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/slideshows/758/slideshow_75893/display_image.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leX0rYpk9wc VS. Texas 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeWn3bwWTg&feature=related VS. Justin Blackmon (Oklahoma St.)


My comments are based on his performance VS. Texas in 2009 as well as against Justin Blackmon. He does a good job of sticking to his man and keeping his eyes on the ball. Prince can also lay the wood and tackle but at times he hits to high or just launches himself at the fee of the opposing player.

Against Blackmon, he was schooled. He kept getting beat on the outside and would push him which would lead to a pass interference penalty. I also noticed that he had a tough time shedding his blocker and getting to the running back, not sure if holding was an issue.



2.) Patrick Peterson (LSU)

http://www.tigerrag.com/wp-content/uploads/peterson_patrick4.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BngI6yAtTLE&feature=related VS. Bama'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0UUoYorh2Q&feature=related VS. Bama and Others

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGCmFWVPg30&feature=related VS. Mississippi St.


Patrick Peterson is the second coming of former Michigan great and current Packers corner-back Charles Woodson. He is tall (6'1") and has the size of a safety (220-Lbs). He is a true shut-down corner who can get in position and make an interception.

From what I have seen, he has good closing speed and seldom looses his footing when the receiver plants his feet and comes back. He can hit well and is a better tackler than Prince Amukamara IMO.

Another plus is that he is dangerous in the return game and has electrifying speed which allows him to stay with smaller, speedy receivers without getting burned.

LonerATO
12-15-2010, 04:39 PM
You wont get either guy, but Texans have a chance at Harris

Texan4Ever
12-15-2010, 05:05 PM
You wont get either guy, but Texans have a chance at Harris

True, the Texans if they decide to go CB will probably go after Brandon Harris, so with that being said here's my take on him:


3.) Brandon Harris (Miami FL)

http://www.philsteele.com/awards/Weekly/BrandonHarris.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0yjcu9CJvc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClHSQML1sew VS. Georgia Tech


Harris is a good CB who can tackle well in space and can stick to his man. Although not as tall as the CBs listed above him, he has decent size (5'11" 195-Lbs) and can bring down opposing players with hard hits. He does an excellent job of reading the offense and doesn't get fooled easily by fake handoffs as you can see in the GTech video.

He doesn't have the greatest set of hands as he tends to knock balls away instead of going for the interception. Regradless, when he sticks to his man he puts himself in great position to make a play and knock the football away.


4.) Janoris Jenkins (Florida)

http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2010/09/11/SouthFloridaFloridaFootball_4_t300.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCqBxzEIy6c&feature=related VS. Bama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWNhED7SK2o VS. Miami (Ohio)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cxPR1aN7Qk&feature=related VS. USF


Jenkins is similar to Brandon Harris is terms of size (5'11" 184-Lbs). In the Bama' video he looks slower than what I've seen while watching him play other teams. He also gets beat by the receiver he was covering and took some poor angles. He tends to fly at opposing receivers and running backs instead of using proper form.

I haven't watched him as closely as some of the other corners but from what I have seen he has potential to become a solid player at the pro level. He needs a lot more coaching and development and as of right now he does not look like a first round pick IMO.

If anyone wants to add anything about Jenkins and or offer your insights please post...

Wolf6151
12-20-2010, 02:04 AM
After the combine I think they'll go in this order in the draft:

1. Prince Amukamara
2. Brandon Harris
3. Patrick Peterson
4. Janoris Jenkins

I think Amukamara will be gone when we pick and that we should have a good shot at Harris or Peterson and think that Harris will be the better CB in the NFL. I think Peterson is a better fit at FS.

Texan4Ever
12-20-2010, 11:11 AM
After the combine I think they'll go in this order in the draft:

1. Prince Amukamara
2. Brandon Harris
3. Patrick Peterson
4. Janoris Jenkins

I think Amukamara will be gone when we pick and that we should have a good shot at Harris or Peterson and think that Harris will be the better CB in the NFL. I think Peterson is a better fit at FS.


I need to watch Amukamara in the bowl game because from what I saw against Ok. St. (the actual game and not the YouTube videos), he was constantly getting beat by Blackmon. He will most likely be gone, but I think he is overrated at this point.

Otherwise, I agree with your choices except I would have Patrick Peterson, Brandon Harris, Prince Amukamara, and then Janoris Jenkins as there are very few solid CBs to choose from this year.

beerlover
12-20-2010, 11:33 AM
:rant:It's not neccessary to get production from the CB position only from using your first round pick. Matter of fact if the powers that be remain there should be a moratorium on taking a first round db. Problem is I don't know what the Texans are really good at developing/projecting other than offense. Maybe Rhodes can step up if his health allows? we need a defensive guru who not only has an eye for talent but also knows how & where to line them up on Sundays

I would like to see use of a 2nd or 3rd on a NFL caliber CB. Chase Minnifield, son of former NFL Pro-Bowl CB Frank Minnifield, plays for Virginia has submitted paperwork to the NFL advisory board. He'll get a mid 2nd to mid 3rd round grade, if that's enough to entice him Texans might bring him in for a workout? Good measureables, 6-0 185 4.45 forty.

steelbtexan
12-20-2010, 12:11 PM
My CB ratings go like this

1. Peterson- Onve in a lifetime athlete, has size of a S feet of a CB. If he doesn't make it at CB (which I believe he will) he will be an all pro S for 10 yrs. You cant go wrong taking Peterson. IMHO

2. Amukamara- He is a really good CB, He probably will be an all pro. But it will take a little time for him to get adjusted to the NFL. His physical brand of covering the WR's doesn't translate as well to the NFL. As Peterson or Harris.

3.Harris- He remids me of Ryan McNeil type CB. He is good at covering WR's and will set the edge against the run. Harris may make a pro bowl or 2 and be a solid 10 yr starter. But he doesn't have the upside of the top 2 CB's. IMHO

4. Aaron Williams- He had a down yr this yr as did the Texas defense as a whole. But this kid has the size speed and attitude to be a great CB. He's good in man to man or zone and he's bigger than Jenkins and sets the edge better. IMHO Williams will have to learn to set the edge just like Amukamara. Ibelieve and I know the experts dont agree with me, That Williams is as good as Amukamara

If Williams is there late in the 1st the Texans should trade up to get him. IMHO Williams will be a much better pro than K.Jackson. IMHO He will be a steal late in the 1st or early in the 2nd. IMHO

rmartin65
12-20-2010, 12:32 PM
My CB ratings go like this

1. Peterson- Onve in a lifetime athlete, has size of a S feet of a CB. If he doesn't make it at CB (which I believe he will) he will be an all pro S for 10 yrs. You cant go wrong taking Peterson. IMHO

2. Amukamara- He is a really good CB, He probably will be an all pro. But it will take a little time for him to get adjusted to the NFL. His physical brand of covering the WR's doesn't translate as well to the NFL. As Peterson or Harris.

3.Harris- He remids me of Ryan McNeil type CB. He is good at covering WR's and will set the edge against the run. Harris may make a pro bowl or 2 and be a solid 10 yr starter. But he doesn't have the upside of the top 2 CB's. IMHO

4. Aaron Williams- He had a down yr this yr as did the Texas defense as a whole. But this kid has the size speed and attitude to be a great CB. He's good in man to man or zone and he's bigger than Jenkins and sets the edge better. IMHO Williams will have to learn to set the edge just like Amukamara. Ibelieve and I know the experts dont agree with me, That Williams is as good as Amukamara

If Williams is there late in the 1st the Texans should trade up to get him. IMHO Williams will be a much better pro than K.Jackson. IMHO He will be a steal late in the 1st or early in the 2nd. IMHO

I dont think you have enough IMHOs in there steelb.

Anyway, I agree with your breakdown of the first 3 guys, with the minor exception that, while I agree Peterson could be a great CB, his best position in the NFL would be FS, and he would help this team a ton at the position.

About Williams- I am not one of the experts, but I agree with them here. Williams looks like a 2nd/3rd rounder to me. He will stick in the NFL for a decade, but as a 3rd CB, maybe 2nd for a couple years in his prime.

dream_team
12-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Do you honestly see the Texans take a CB with the first pick? Who's spot does he take? I think Glover has been playing well as of late. And are we already calling it quits on Kareem Jackson?

I'd prefer to go free safety in the first round... Pending someone is there worth taking.

Texan4Ever
12-20-2010, 12:39 PM
Do you honestly see the Texans take a CB with the first pick? Who's spot does he take? I think Glover has been playing well as of late. And are we already calling it quits on Kareem Jackson?

I'd prefer to go free safety in the first round... Pending someone is there worth taking.



That's the problem. There are NO safeties worth taking in the first round at the position we're going to be drafting. Unless if we moved down the draft and go for a guy like Deunta Williams (UNC) and pick up some draft picks in the 2nd or 3rd round.

steelbtexan
12-20-2010, 12:42 PM
edit

And yes I can see that my ADD is alive and well. LOL

rmartin65
12-20-2010, 12:52 PM
edit

And yes I can see that my ADD is alive and well. LOL

No worries, I wasn't making fun man. I have a friend who does the same thing, different phrase, but same idea.

76Texan
12-20-2010, 02:19 PM
Do you honestly see the Texans take a CB with the first pick? Who's spot does he take? I think Glover has been playing well as of late. And are we already calling it quits on Kareem Jackson?

I'd prefer to go free safety in the first round... Pending someone is there worth taking.

In the off-season, I hope to have time to break down each play (I have but mostly just in my mind; I just haven't put hardly any of them into written words.)

Overall, our 3 CBs (KJ, Quin, and Allen) did not play any worse than the combination of the CBs that we have faced the whole year.
(They may even played better, but I'm not ready to say that!)
They just didn't have the same help as the CBs from the other teams had from a multitude of source (safeties, pressure up front, as well as the help from LBs in the short zones.)

KJ, IMHO, can play CB even though he may not become a first-tier cover corner.
He has the skill set to play nickel or FS as well.
He's a very good tackler and he can get off blockers to get to the ball (as a FS, that would help this team a lot). I do not like the idea of Quin at FS for this reason.
As a nickel, KJ can be near the QB and RB more often where we can send him in on a blitz or a run blitz, situations in which his ability can be maximized; however, I also think that Quin can be utilized much the same way.

I don't have problem with drafting a CB and shift KJ to the FS spot if there's no first-round grade safety in this draft.

No matter what, we need more pressure up front; especially in the middle.
Hopefully Mario can be healthier than this year and that Barwin can come back 100%.
With Anderson and Jamison outside, we can use Smith more on the inside so that we can have a deeper rotation and the guys can go all out on each play.
A good NT in the draft wouldn't hurt either.

76Texan
12-20-2010, 02:24 PM
:rant:It's not neccessary to get production from the CB position only from using your first round pick. Matter of fact if the powers that be remain there should be a moratorium on taking a first round db. Problem is I don't know what the Texans are really good at developing/projecting other than offense. Maybe Rhodes can step up if his health allows? we need a defensive guru who not only has an eye for talent but also knows how & where to line them up on Sundays

I would like to see use of a 2nd or 3rd on a NFL caliber CB. Chase Minnifield, son of former NFL Pro-Bowl CB Frank Minnifield, plays for Virginia has submitted paperwork to the NFL advisory board. He'll get a mid 2nd to mid 3rd round grade, if that's enough to entice him Texans might bring him in for a workout? Good measureables, 6-0 185 4.45 forty.

Thanks for mentioning about Minnifield.
I've been wanting to watch that CB from Virginia 6'2 Ras-I Dowling, so I can spend time watching Minnifield as well.

Any thought on Dowling?

Also, thanks to Texan4ever for all the infos and videos.

76Texan
12-20-2010, 02:25 PM
Duplication... Deleted.

beerlover
12-20-2010, 03:01 PM
In the off-season, I hope to have time to break down each play (I have but mostly just in my mind; I just haven't put hardly any of them into written words.)

Overall, our 3 CBs (KJ, Quin, and Allen) did not play any worse than the combination of the CBs that we have faced the whole year.
(They may even played better, but I'm not ready to say that!)
They just didn't have the same help as the CBs from the other teams had from a multitude of source (safeties, pressure up front, as well as the help from LBs in the short zones.)

KJ, IMHO, can play CB even though he may not become a first-tier cover corner.
He has the skill set to play nickel or FS as well.
He's a very good tackler and he can get off blockers to get to the ball (as a FS, that would help this team a lot). I do not like the idea of Quin at FS for this reason.
As a nickel, KJ can be near the QB and RB more often where we can send him in on a blitz or a run blitz, situations in which his ability can be maximized; however, I also think that Quin can be utilized much the same way.

I don't have problem with drafting a CB and shift KJ to the FS spot if there's no first-round grade safety in this draft.

No matter what, we need more pressure up front; especially in the middle.
Hopefully Mario can be healthier than this year and that Barwin can come back 100%.
With Anderson and Jamison outside, we can use Smith more on the inside so that we can have a deeper rotation and the guys can go all out on each play.
A good NT in the draft wouldn't hurt either.

some good stuff. Wonder if Kubiak would consider moving Kareem to FS? what about moving Quinn to SS? one thing for sure is the secondary would look alot different. Quinn is second only to Pollard in tackles, is also physical but gives Texans huge upgrade in coverage. Kareem is 4th on team in tackles would like to see him over the top more to support other cb's since he must have a better understanding what it's like not to have any support & do his best to cover-up soft zone or mis-matches on edge.

would like Texans first rd. pecking order to look something like this -
1. Marcell Dareus
2. Nick Fairley
3. Adrian Clayborn
4. Stephen Paea
then address CB in 2nd
1. Chase Minnifield
2. Ras-I Dowling
plus pick up a top flight vet free agent cb
1. Champ Bailey
2. Eric Wright

results would be a better pass rush, less time for QB's to make good reads/throws into a much tighter secondary.

gwallaia
12-20-2010, 10:18 PM
I would like to see the Texans wheel and deal and move up to get Peterson.

JB
12-20-2010, 10:24 PM
I would like to see the Texans wheel and deal and move up to get Peterson.

I would like to see Fairley.

76Texan
12-21-2010, 01:31 PM
would like Texans first rd. pecking order to look something like this -
1. Marcell Dareus
2. Nick Fairley
3. Adrian Clayborn
4. Stephen Paea
then address CB in 2nd
1. Chase Minnifield
2. Ras-I Dowling
plus pick up a top flight vet free agent cb
1. Champ Bailey
2. Eric Wright

results would be a better pass rush, less time for QB's to make good reads/throws into a much tighter secondary.I like that!

I haven't watched Dowling play but can he be converted to safety?
Maybe one of the guys from Clemson also?

Rey
12-21-2010, 06:59 PM
I can't see the Texans taking a corner in the first if this regime is still here.

I just don't see Kubiak shelving Kareem Jackson that quickly...I think he will give him every opprotunity to be a starter next year...

powda
12-22-2010, 11:28 AM
I can't see the Texans taking a corner in the first if this regime is still here.

They better bring in some veteran Cb's and draft one as early as possible. This secondary was almost historically bad. It's a shame the entire defense got a bad name because of them.

I have to wonder about something out loud...

Typically a strong safety is the more physical of the 2 safeties because he has to match up on occasion with tightends and ofcourse he plays on the strong side of the formation. I get the initial thoughts on a profile for the position...but here's what "strong safety" has come to mean...

Can't cover...limited range

Eugene Wilson is the only true Free safety on the roster. He wouldn't start for another team in the league. What i'd like to see is 2 Free Safety types drafted high who have man coverage skills, lots of range, and and a knack for interceptions...

Every Defensive Coordinator depends on turnovers and they spend countless hours in practice focusing on the topic. Here's a clue...

1. When the ball is in the air it belongs to whomever can get to it first.
2. If you want more turnovers, bring in defenders who can catch the ball.
3. Focus on safeties with a consitent career record for interceptions. (This usually indicates hands and instincts but not always)

As far as the strong safety concept (slow enforcer), if i want limited range, poor coverage skills, but hits like a truck players i'd put a 4th or 5th linebacker on the field.

my perfect draft =

rd1 cb
rd2 fs
rd3 ss (fs skill set)

Texan4Ever
12-22-2010, 01:34 PM
5.) Ras-I Dowling (Virginia)

http://www.thesabre.com/edge/images/2007/football/wake_dowling001b.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUDcKqcHuK8 VS. UNC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmWJb1gPIEM&feature=related VS. Various

Ras-I Dowling is tall (6'2" 200-Lbs) but has decent speed to stay with receivers and can shed blocks and get to the ball-carrier. He may have to switch to the safety position once he goes pro, which shouldn't be a problem since he has good hands and can hit.

He would project as a free safety and can help defend against the pass up top and does a solid job in coverage. If the Texans do draft him, he would be an excellent complement to Bernard Pollard or whoever is playing the SS position.

76Texan
12-23-2010, 12:04 AM
I can't see the Texans taking a corner in the first if this regime is still here.

I just don't see Kubiak shelving Kareem Jackson that quickly...I think he will give him every opprotunity to be a starter next year...

I don't think shelving is anywhere near the term.
It has more to do with finding solution for the whole defense as a whole, and the secondary as a unit.

If the draft and free agency can only bring a good CB, I would definitely consider moving KJ to the FS position.

If we can find a good safety, we wouldn't have to do it.

That was why I was wondering if Dowling can play safety.
On another note, I just happen to watch a Maryland game and I found Kenny Tate pretty interesting.
He's a Jr and may declare. I'm planning to watch more of his games.
Anybody has an idea?

Texan4Ever
12-23-2010, 12:23 AM
I don't think shelving is anywhere near the term.
It has more to do with finding solution for the whole defense as a whole, and the secondary as a unit.

If the draft and free agency can only bring a good CB, I would definitely consider moving KJ to the FS position.

If we can find a good safety, we wouldn't have to do it.

That was why I was wondering if Dowling can play safety.
On another note, I just happen to watch a Maryland game and I found Kenny Tate pretty interesting.
He's a Jr and may declare. I'm planning to watch more of his games.
Anybody has an idea?



I'm not sure about moving KJ to the safety position, we drafted him as a corner and will probably keep him there for a few years and see if he pans out.

As for Dowling, I think he can play FS well enough because of his ability to cover receivers and still pack a punch when he has to go after the ball carrier. If we could draft him and coach him up, he would be a big improvement over what we currently have.

steelbtexan
12-23-2010, 12:28 AM
Tate is super talented,big 6'3 220, fast a reported 4.4.

He's a former WR that has only been playing S for about 1.5 yrs.

For that reason I wouldn't take him until the 3-4th rd. But he has late 1st early 2nd rd talent.

Wolf6151
12-23-2010, 01:28 AM
I think that Ras-I Dowling will be a better FS than CB. I haven't seen him much but have read that he plays stiff and isn't very good in his change of direction. He's got good size and will probably be a good FS.

I'll gladly settle for Brandon Harris but I'd much rather we trade up for Prince Amukamara. I think that the 2011 draft is a weak one thus alot of guys are going to go higher than they otherwise would and that would make it a good time to trade up.

I also think that this could be a great opportunity to really help out our secondary by taking a CB in the 1st round and a FS in the 2nd round. There are several good FS that should be available in the 2nd round since none of them seem to be 1st round talent. We could possibly have our pick of Deunta Williams, Rahim Moore, Quinton Carter, or DeAndre McDaniels. If we could pick up a good DT in FA it would really free up our draft to fill the needs in the secondary.

Texan4Ever
12-23-2010, 01:32 AM
I think that Ras-I Dowling will be a better FS than CB. I haven't seen him much but have read that he plays stiff and isn't very good in his change of direction. He's got good size and will probably be a good FS.

I'll gladly settle for Brandon Harris but I'd much rather we trade up for Prince Amukamara. I think that the 2011 draft is a weak one thus alot of guys are going to go higher than they otherwise would and that would make it a good time to trade up.



IMO, I would much rather have Brandon Harris than Prince Amukamara. Harris does so may things well (e.g. cover WRs, shed blocks, make open-field tackles) that I think he may be better than Prince at the CB position.

texanchris
12-23-2010, 02:26 PM
I think that Ras-I Dowling will be a better FS than CB. I haven't seen him much but have read that he plays stiff and isn't very good in his change of direction. He's got good size and will probably be a good FS.

I'll gladly settle for Brandon Harris but I'd much rather we trade up for Prince Amukamara. I think that the 2011 draft is a weak one thus alot of guys are going to go higher than they otherwise would and that would make it a good time to trade up.

I also think that this could be a great opportunity to really help out our secondary by taking a CB in the 1st round and a FS in the 2nd round. There are several good FS that should be available in the 2nd round since none of them seem to be 1st round talent. We could possibly have our pick of Deunta Williams, Rahim Moore, Quinton Carter, or DeAndre McDaniels. If we could pick up a good DT in FA it would really free up our draft to fill the needs in the secondary.

Dont you guys think that if we draft more rookie secondary players that the same inexperience that showed up this year will show up next year? We should pick up a free saftey during free agency because we need experience in the pass defense. Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.

beerlover
12-23-2010, 02:51 PM
Dont you guys think that if we draft more rookie secondary players that the same inexperience that showed up this year will show up next year? We should pick up a free saftey during free agency because we need experience in the pass defense. Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.

Texans should, will address cb in free agnecy. Rick Smith should have never let the whole Dunta Robinson scenero get to the point it did, he was a foundation piece at least from an experience point the Texans have severly lacked without his leadership. Worst mistake of his GM tenure.

I'm all for adding one more talented cb via the draft who has the instincts & pedigree to develop into a first rate cb in the NFL. I like Minnifield (Virginia) in 2nd and/or Carmichael in 3rd (Virginia Tech).

Wolf6151
12-23-2010, 03:36 PM
Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.


You do realize that teams carry more than 3 CB's, the Texans have 6 on their roster. I'm sure that a 1st round CB would improve the talent level and make a roster leach like Antwaun Molden expendable. We currently have 1 guy who's average at best, Allen, 2 guys that have potential, Quinn and Jackson, and 3 guys that suck, McCain, McManis, and Molden. No more CB's who's last name starts with an "M".

Rey
12-23-2010, 05:45 PM
I don't think shelving is anywhere near the term.
It has more to do with finding solution for the whole defense as a whole, and the secondary as a unit.

If the draft and free agency can only bring a good CB, I would definitely consider moving KJ to the FS position.

If we can find a good safety, we wouldn't have to do it.

That was why I was wondering if Dowling can play safety.
On another note, I just happen to watch a Maryland game and I found Kenny Tate pretty interesting.
He's a Jr and may declare. I'm planning to watch more of his games.
Anybody has an idea?

I hear what you are saying, but this staff has not shown that they will do what you are talking about...

Maybe since the bottom fell out on him Kubiak will be willing to do some things differently, but based on past history, Kubiak is loyal to his players for a bit longer than he should be loyal to them...

steelbtexan
12-24-2010, 12:04 AM
Dont you guys think that if we draft more rookie secondary players that the same inexperience that showed up this year will show up next year? We should pick up a free saftey during free agency because we need experience in the pass defense. Prince looks good and i would like us to draft him but we have Kareem who the coaches arent going to give up on yet, Quinn who has been playing well lately, and Allen who isnt perfect but is arguably our best cornerback right now. Dont think there is room for another cornerback.

Disagree

A great CB via FA or the draft improves the secondary immensley. I dont care how many average CB's are on the roster. With that said the LB,S,DT positions have more value in this draft. IMHO

Wolf6151
12-24-2010, 03:43 AM
The Texans have 4 obvious weaknesses on defense DT, CB, FS, and WLB. Not all of these positions can be filled with starter level talent in one draft. I think the Texans will look at the problem from a monetary point of view as it relates to FA as well as a talent/draft pick point of view. DT's and CB's are much more expensive in FA than FS and WLB thus I think the Texans will most likely try to fill the WLB and FS in FA and DT and CB in the draft. Of course all of this is speculation at best since the CBA and possible new head coach issues are still up in the air. I also think that our very young CB's would benefit from an experienced FS backing them up more than an experienced CB with a rookie FS.

beerlover
12-24-2010, 05:30 AM
The Texans have 4 obvious weaknesses on defense DT, CB, FS, and WLB. Not all of these positions can be filled with starter level talent in one draft. I think the Texans will look at the problem from a monetary point of view as it relates to FA as well as a talent/draft pick point of view. DT's and CB's are much more expensive in FA than FS and WLB thus I think the Texans will most likely try to fill the WLB and FS in FA and DT and CB in the draft. Of course all of this is speculation at best since the CBA and possible new head coach issues are still up in the air. I also think that our very young CB's would benefit from an experienced FS backing them up more than an experienced CB with a rookie FS.

we have an experienced FS via free agency, his name is Eugene Wilson. point is whatever the position, elite talent brings an elite price tag regardless. Lets spend some of Bob McNairs money for him that he's saving by retaining Kubiak & Company, sign Champ Bailey.

that's what I want the Texans to do for a belated Christmas present :wesmantexanfan:

steelbtexan
12-24-2010, 11:31 AM
The Texans have 4 obvious weaknesses on defense DT, CB, FS, and WLB. Not all of these positions can be filled with starter level talent in one draft. I think the Texans will look at the problem from a monetary point of view as it relates to FA as well as a talent/draft pick point of view. DT's and CB's are much more expensive in FA than FS and WLB thus I think the Texans will most likely try to fill the WLB and FS in FA and DT and CB in the draft. Of course all of this is speculation at best since the CBA and possible new head coach issues are still up in the air. I also think that our very young CB's would benefit from an experienced FS backing them up more than an experienced CB with a rookie FS.

There are some very good S in this draft. If R.Smith does his job and I question his ablilities. He should be able to fill 3 of the 4 needs in FA. Adding a cheaper DT in FA like Abrayou Franklin or Barry Coffield would help give a guy that can help give a push in the middle that this team has been lacking since Seth Payne left.

Then in the draft guys that should be available in rds 1-4 to fill the needs will be there. Guys that I know you like

Rd.1 Harris or Miller
Rd.2 Herzlich or Minniefield
Rd.3 Amhad Black or Steven Friday
Rd.4 Will Hill or Nate Irving

You can fill these spots of weakness by trading up to the bottom of rds 2/3. But R.Smith has to be agressive and smart. After he spends hours of watching film himself. Instead of just relying on his scouts notes.

It requires hard work that so far in R.Smith's drafts it has become apparent he has not been willing or is incapable of doing. But the players will be there it's Smith's job to find those players.

It would help if Kubes would schedule his offseason surgeries at a time when the Combine isn't happening.

TexansSeminole
12-24-2010, 11:45 AM
There are some very good S in this draft.

There are definitely some good ones to be had in this draft. Guys like DeAndre McDaniel, Deunta Williams, Ahmad Black, Rahim Moore, Tyler Sash, and Mark Barron aren't blue chippers but they are all good prospects. We have no excuse to not get one of these guys this year.

McDaniel, Williams, and Black all have great leadership qualities to them and tend to get people in position before plays start. I don't know if that's part of being a senior, but it's difficult not to notice.

steelbtexan
12-24-2010, 02:55 PM
There are definitely some good ones to be had in this draft. Guys like DeAndre McDaniel, Deunta Williams, Ahmad Black, Rahim Moore, Tyler Sash, and Mark Barron aren't blue chippers but they are all good prospects. We have no excuse to not get one of these guys this year.

McDaniel, Williams, and Black all have great leadership qualities to them and tend to get people in position before plays start. I don't know if that's part of being a senior, but it's difficult not to notice.

My favorites that should be availabe in the 3/4 th rd are
1.Sash
2.Black
3.Hill
4. Carter
5.Sands

Williams will be gone before the 3rd rd. IMHO

After drafting a Sash in the 3rd, Smith should trade back into the 3rd rd and draft Black or Hill. That way the S position would be fixed for yrs. Smithiak wont do this because in last yrs draft the S position was very deep and they decided drarfting more TE's was the way to go. It shows how little Smithiak value the S position.

Although the CB's were bad this yr Pollard and Wilson provided little help over the top and made below avg CB's look like some of the worst in history of the NFL.

Rey
12-24-2010, 03:20 PM
we have an experienced FS via free agency, his name is Eugene Wilson. point is whatever the position, elite talent brings an elite price tag regardless. Lets spend some of Bob McNairs money for him that he's saving by retaining Kubiak & Company, sign Champ Bailey.

that's what I want the Texans to do for a belated Christmas present :wesmantexanfan:

What kind of contract would you give Champ Bailey????

If I'm Champ, why do I want to come here?

Seems like it'd take some good money to get him in here...Much more money than any competitors are offering...

beerlover
12-24-2010, 03:41 PM
What kind of contract would you give Champ Bailey????

If I'm Champ, why do I want to come here?

Seems like it'd take some good money to get him in here...Much more money than any competitors are offering...

1. there is the Denver connection.
2. plenty of football left still only 32
3. better cb than Dunta Robinson

contract could be structured similar to Dunta Robinson contract. Big number 57 million but misleading in fact that its not all guarenteed, there are incentives plus team options where they can buy out contract early if so justified. Here’s the breakdown on Dunta Robinson six-year contract, which included a $7 million signing bonus:

He’s sent to receive base salaries of $5 million in 2010, $5.5 million in 2011, $6 million in 2012, $7 million in 2013, $9 million in 2014 and $9.5 million in 2015.

He’s also set to receive a $3 million bonus in the second year of the deal and could also receive another $5 million in option bonuses.

His salary cap numbers are $12 million in 2010, $6.5 million in 2011, $7.75 million in 2012, $8.75 million in 2013, $10.75 million in 2014 and $11.25 million in 2015.

Texan4Ever
12-24-2010, 04:10 PM
I wouldn't mind bringing Champ Bailey in, he is a leader who is still feared by opposing QBs and WRs, he can provide on-the-field as well as off-the-field mentoring to our young DBs, and he can also help our offense out by going up against our WRs not named Andre and get them to improve there game.

kiwitexansfan
12-24-2010, 04:12 PM
I wouldn't mind bringing Champ Bailey in, he is a leader who is still feared by opposing QBs and WRs, he can provide on-the-field as well as off-the-field mentoring to our young DBs, and he can also help our offense out by going up against our WRs not named Andre and get them to improve there game.

Slightly off topic here but it makes me think that maybe why JJ, DA and DD have regressed or not really come on is that they spend their time practicing against our secondary and have become complacent about what it takes in the actual NFL against a real NFL secondary.

Texan4Ever
12-24-2010, 10:14 PM
Slightly off topic here but it makes me think that maybe why JJ, DA and DD have regressed or not really come on is that they spend their time practicing against our secondary and have become complacent about what it takes in the actual NFL against a real NFL secondary.


That too, I agree with this as well. This offseason, for once I would like for the Texans to make a splash in the FA and get a guy with a proven track record to help us out regardless of what side of the ball it's on (I prefer a defensive player).

steelbtexan
12-25-2010, 12:35 AM
That too, I agree with this as well. This offseason, for once I would like for the Texans to make a splash in the FA and get a guy with a proven track record to help us out regardless of what side of the ball it's on (I prefer a defensive player).

Agreed

But since it's not likely to happen. I will settle for a guy like Coffield that can provide stability in the middle of the DL.

beerlover
12-25-2010, 12:57 AM
The Texans must use Free Agency this offseason to springboard into the draft, through OTA's, Fall camp, Pre-season & into the 2011 playoffs.

this is their last shot for me, I will unsubscribe otherwise :phone:

Texan4Ever
12-25-2010, 12:59 AM
The Texans must use Free Agency this offseason to springboard into the draft, through OTA's, Fall camp, Pre-season & into the 2011 playoffs.

this is their last shot for me, I will unsubscribe otherwise :phone:



As soon as FA starts, our GM better hit the phones like the dude in your smiley!

steelbtexan
12-25-2010, 01:11 AM
The Texans must use Free Agency this offseason to springboard into the draft, through OTA's, Fall camp, Pre-season & into the 2011 playoffs.

this is their last shot for me, I will unsubscribe otherwise :phone:

LOL

They have never used FA before to improve the team and the build through the draft sheeple failed to understand that when your behind the 8 ball so to speak. You have to make moves (spend $$$ over pay for a Bailey for ex. ) to rise above mediocrity.

So far this hasn't happened since the Texans inception. I dont expect this to change any time soon. However if the right people were put in place this team could be really good in 2-3 yrs. With a good personel dept.

YoungTexanFan
12-26-2010, 03:12 PM
Look folks, the type of FS everyone is clamoring for won't EVER be available on the FA market. EVER. Let that sink in. We would have to trade our entire first day away as a starting point for one as well.

I have the unfortunate privilege of watching the Chiefs play most weekends. Their defense wasn't good last year. They had a good LB (DJ - we passed on him, but Ryans and Cushing are both better) and they have a mediocre pass rusher in Hali (Mario is significantly better). They spent quite a few high draft picks on DTs who have only floundered around and disappointed (sound familiar?). Then, they DRAFTED Eric Berry. An elite level FS. He changed their entire defense. They have a QB who I call Matt Schaub light. They have Bowe as their #1 WR. Seriously, he is terrible. Absolutely terrible. We have a better QB, WR, LB, DE and a few more pieces. They have a strong running game like us. The difference is that they have true game changing FS. That's what we need, unfortunately, there isn't one in this draft. We should be aspiring to have a turnaround like the Chiefs.

Accept that and move along.

PapaL
12-26-2010, 03:55 PM
Donte Witner is probably going to be a FA. Free Agency is the place to look for us. Even then we won't land an "elite" FS but one that's 1000 times better than we have.

steelbtexan
12-26-2010, 04:56 PM
Look folks, the type of FS everyone is clamoring for won't EVER be available on the FA market. EVER. Let that sink in. We would have to trade our entire first day away as a starting point for one as well.

I have the unfortunate privilege of watching the Chiefs play most weekends. Their defense wasn't good last year. They had a good LB (DJ - we passed on him, but Ryans and Cushing are both better) and they have a mediocre pass rusher in Hali (Mario is significantly better). They spent quite a few high draft picks on DTs who have only floundered around and disappointed (sound familiar?). Then, they DRAFTED Eric Berry. An elite level FS. He changed their entire defense. They have a QB who I call Matt Schaub light. They have Bowe as their #1 WR. Seriously, he is terrible. Absolutely terrible. We have a better QB, WR, LB, DE and a few more pieces. They have a strong running game like us. The difference is that they have true game changing FS. That's what we need, unfortunately, there isn't one in this draft. We should be aspiring to have a turnaround like the Chiefs.

Accept that and move along.

While I agree with your premise.

The main difference between the Texans and the Chiefs is Haley was secure enough in himself to hie 2 Coordinators that have SB rings. Kubiak on the otherhand.....

steelbtexan
12-26-2010, 05:00 PM
Donte Witner is probably going to be a FA. Free Agency is the place to look for us. Even then we won't land an "elite" FS but one that's 1000 times better than we have.

Signing Whitner would be a low cost solution. Along with drafting another S in rds 3/4.

Does anybody know if the Texans will get a 3rd as a compensatory pick for losing Dunta? If so that would be huge.

kiwitexansfan
12-27-2010, 09:10 AM
They have never used FA before to improve the team and the build through the draft sheeple failed to understand that when your behind the 8 ball so to speak. You have to make moves (spend $$$ over pay for a Bailey for ex. ) to rise above mediocrity.

The Texans have overpaid free agents to come here, but you need to realise that the really good FA, don't want to come here because the Texans are a losing team. If we become a contender you'll start to see some splashes.

76Texan
12-27-2010, 10:31 AM
Under terms of the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement, a team losing more or better compensatory free agents than it acquires in the previous year is eligible to receive compensatory draft picks.

The number of picks a team receives equals the net loss of compensatory free agents up to a maximum of four.

Compensatory free agents are determined by a formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. The formula was developed by the NFL Management Council. Not every free agent lost or signed by a club is covered by this formula.

Following are the compensatory free agents lost and signed last year by the clubs that will receive compensatory picks in the 2009 NFL Draft:

Compensatory draft picks last year:
Rd Pick Sel. # Team
3 33 97 New England
3 34 98 Cincinnati
3 35 99 Chicago
3 36 100 N.Y. Giants
4 33 133 San Diego
4 34 134 San Diego
4 35 135 Tennessee
4 36 136 Indianapolis
5 33 169 Pittsburgh
5 34 170 New England
5 35 171 San Francisco
5 36 172 Dallas
5 37 173 Tennessee
6 33 206 Tennessee
6 34 207 New England
6 35 208 Dallas
6 36 209 Cincinnati
7 33 242 Tennessee
7 34 243 Washington
7 35 244 San Francisco
7 36 245 Seattle
7 37 246 Chicago
7 38 247 Seattle
7 39 248 Seattle
7 40 249 Cincinnati
7 41 250 Jacksonville
7 42 251 Chicago
7 43 252 Cincinnati
7 44 253 Jacksonville
7 45 254 Arizona
7 46 255 Detroit
7 47 256 Kansas City

Arizona Cardinals
Lost: Bryant Johnson, Calvin Pace, Keydrick Vincent
Signed: Clark Haggans, Travis LaBoy, Bryan Robinson
Total compensatory picks: 1

*Arizona received a compensatory pick even though it did not suffer a net loss of compensatory free agents last year. Under the formula, the compensatory free agents Arizona lost were ranked higher than the ones it signed (by a specified point differential based upon salary and performance).


Chicago Bears
Lost: Brendon Ayanbadejo, Bernard Berrian, John Gilmore
Total compensatory picks: 3


Cincinnati Bengals
Lost: Landon Johnson, Bryan Robinson, Justin Smith, Alex Stepanovich, Madieu Williams
Signed: Antwan Odom
Total compensatory picks: 4


Dallas Cowboys
Lost: Julius Jones, Jacques Reeves
Total compensatory picks: 2


Indianapolis Colts
Lost: Jake Scott
Total compensatory picks: 1


Jacksonville Jaguars
Lost: Terry Cousin, Aaron Glenn, Sammy Knight, Bobby McCray, Ernest Wilford
Signed: Drayton Florence, Cleo Lemon, Jerry Porter
Total compensatory picks: 2


New England Patriots
Lost: Randall Gay, Asante Samuel, Donte’ Stallworth
Total compensatory picks: 3


New York Giants
Lost: Kawika Mitchell, Reggie Torbor, Gibril Wilson
Signed: Danny Clark, Sammy Knight
Total compensatory picks: 1


Pittsburgh Steelers
Lost: Alan Faneca, Clark Haggans
Signed: Mewelde Moore
Total compensatory picks: 1


San Diego Chargers
Lost: Drayton Florence, Michael Turner
Total compensatory picks: 2


San Francisco 49ers
Lost: Marques Douglas, Kwame Harris, Maurice Hicks, Justin Smiley
Signed: Bryant Johnson, Justin Smith
Total compensatory picks: 2


Seattle Seahawks
Lost: Kevin Bentley, Josh Brown, Chuck Darby, D.J. Hackett, Niko Koutouvides, Ellis Wyms
Signed: Keary Colbert (acquired via trade from Denver), T.J. Duckett, Julius Jones
Total compensatory picks: 3


Tennessee Titans
Lost: Jacob Bell, Chris Brown, Ben Hartsock, Travis LaBoy, Antwan Odom, Randy Starks
Signed: Jake Scott
Total compensatory picks: 4


Washington Redskins
Lost: Mark Brunell
Total compensatory picks: 1


Thirty compensatory picks were awarded to clubs based upon the compensatory pick formula. By rule, two additional choices were awarded at the end of the seventh round to bring the total number of compensatory selections to 32, equaling the number of NFL clubs. The two additional picks were awarded to Detroit and Kansas City based upon the 2009 draft selection order. (Note: St. Louis and Kansas City finished 2008 with identical records. St. Louis chooses second in all odd rounds and Kansas City chooses second in all even rounds. Once compensatory picks have been awarded according to the formula, draft selection order is followed to assign any remaining picks, and for this purpose, the assignment of the pick is made as if it were the eighth round, so Kansas City is awarded the choice.)

76Texan
12-30-2010, 03:12 PM
1.) Prince Amukamara (Nebraska)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leX0rYpk9wc VS. Texas 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeWn...eature=related VS. Justin Blackmon (Oklahoma St.)

My comments are based on his performance VS. Texas in 2009 as well as against Justin Blackmon. He does a good job of sticking to his man and keeping his eyes on the ball. Prince can also lay the wood and tackle but at times he hits to high or just launches himself at the fee of the opposing player.

Against Blackmon, he was schooled. He kept getting beat on the outside and would push him which would lead to a pass interference penalty. I also noticed that he had a tough time shedding his blocker and getting to the running back, not sure if holding was an issue.

I will come back to watch the 09 Texas game later.
But you're right, Amukara looked horrendous against Okl St.
If I have to base on this game only, I wouldn't even draft him, let alone considering him in the first round.

He didn't look great in the UT game this year either.
Both Dennard (his teammate) and Williams (UT) outplayed him in this game, from what I saw.

Also, it seems to me that Williams played quite a bit as the nickel corner.
Would you want to spend a first rounder on such a prospect?

At any rate, I still need to watch a lot more of these guys before I can have a good grasp so don't hold me for anything yet.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-30-2010, 10:45 PM
I would like to see The Texans taking FS in very early rounds(1st or 2nd rd). That kid from UCLA or free agency like the Rums safety Oshiomogho Atogwe would be nice.

Texan4Ever
12-30-2010, 10:47 PM
I will come back to watch the 09 Texas game later.
But you're right, Amukara looked horrendous against Okl St.
If I have to base on this game only, I wouldn't even draft him, let alone considering him in the first round.

He didn't look great in the UT game this year either.
Both Dennard (his teammate) and Williams (UT) outplayed him in this game, from what I saw.

Also, it seems to me that Williams played quite a bit as the nickel corner.
Would you want to spend a first rounder on such a prospect?

At any rate, I still need to watch a lot more of these guys before I can have a good grasp so don't hold me for anything yet.



I haven't seen much of this guy which is why I want to watch him in a bowl game but my conclusions are the following A.) Prince could be grossly overrated and or being hyped up by draft gurus purely based on a few solid games he's had and B.) It seems to me that if you want a cornerback who can take on a receiver without needing support from safeties then Prince is NOT your guy.

Also, either Blackmon is the next AJ or Prince really has technique issues such as backpedaling and getting himself in position to at least knock the ball away.

steelbtexan
12-30-2010, 10:58 PM
The Texans have overpaid free agents to come here, but you need to realise that the really good FA, don't want to come here because the Texans are a losing team. If we become a contender you'll start to see some splashes.

Peppers went to the highest bidder last yr. (The Bears were the highest bidder) This yr they have one of the best teams in the league. To be the best you have to make moves like the Bears do and pay top $$$$ like the Peppers deal. They also re-did Cutlers deal.

Bottom line is if you pay top $$$$ will they will come. You have to pay way over market value but they will come. It's called the price of doing business.

Of course McNair wants to run his team like the Steelers. They are the exception to the rule. They dont pay top $$$$ but stay on top.

76Texan
12-31-2010, 12:20 PM
I would like to see The Texans taking FS in very early rounds(1st or 2nd rd). That kid from UCLA or free agency like the Rums safety Oshiomogho Atogwe would be nice.

I wouldn't mind if they get both.
Also, I've been watching a bit more of the Tides and I'm starting to warm up to Barron as well.
(I only watched one UCLA game so far, I do like Rahim Moore.)
If they can't get a FA like Atogwe, I hope that they draft 2 safeties and a NT.

76Texan
12-31-2010, 12:23 PM
I haven't seen much of this guy which is why I want to watch him in a bowl game but my conclusions are the following A.) Prince could be grossly overrated and or being hyped up by draft gurus purely based on a few solid games he's had and B.) It seems to me that if you want a cornerback who can take on a receiver without needing support from safeties then Prince is NOT your guy.

Also, either Blackmon is the next AJ or Prince really has technique issues such as backpedaling and getting himself in position to at least knock the ball away.

I agree with you for now.
But I'd like to watch and learn more about him before drawing my conclusions.
Perhaps he just had a bad day and Blackmon was playing out of his mind?!?

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2010, 01:24 PM
I haven't seen much of this guy which is why I want to watch him in a bowl game but my conclusions are the following A.) Prince could be grossly overrated and or being hyped up by draft gurus purely based on a few solid games he's had and B.) It seems to me that if you want a cornerback who can take on a receiver without needing support from safeties then Prince is NOT your guy.

Also, either Blackmon is the next AJ or Prince really has technique issues such as backpedaling and getting himself in position to at least knock the ball away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeWn3bwWTg

Rey
12-31-2010, 01:28 PM
Look folks, the type of FS everyone is clamoring for won't EVER be available on the FA market. EVER. Let that sink in. We would have to trade our entire first day away as a starting point for one as well.

I have the unfortunate privilege of watching the Chiefs play most weekends. Their defense wasn't good last year. They had a good LB (DJ - we passed on him, but Ryans and Cushing are both better) and they have a mediocre pass rusher in Hali (Mario is significantly better). They spent quite a few high draft picks on DTs who have only floundered around and disappointed (sound familiar?). Then, they DRAFTED Eric Berry. An elite level FS. He changed their entire defense. They have a QB who I call Matt Schaub light. They have Bowe as their #1 WR. Seriously, he is terrible. Absolutely terrible. We have a better QB, WR, LB, DE and a few more pieces. They have a strong running game like us. The difference is that they have true game changing FS. That's what we need, unfortunately, there isn't one in this draft. We should be aspiring to have a turnaround like the Chiefs.

Accept that and move along.

:mcnugget:

Seriously?

Absolutely terrible?

I stopped reading after that..

Texan4Ever
12-31-2010, 02:27 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVeWn3bwWTg


Let's forget about drafting a CB, how about trading down and getting Justin Blackmon as a WR? Not sure if he's going to declare but having him gives us a proven receiver who can only excel under AJ and our pass-friendly offense.

As someone mentioned, trading for Oshimago Atoje (butured the name but you know the Rams FS) for some draft picks and or maybe some defensive players would not be a bad idea. :)

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2010, 02:49 PM
Let's forget about drafting a CB, how about trading down and getting Justin Blackmon as a WR? Not sure if he's going to declare but having him gives us a proven receiver who can only excel under AJ and our pass-friendly offense.

As someone mentioned, trading for Oshimago Atoje (butured the name but you know the Rams FS) for some draft picks and or maybe some defensive players would not be a bad idea. :)

Man, I'm not real sure of Amukara after watching some of him... at least not a top 10 pick. Blackmon looks legit though. AJ Green is clear #1 to me and I'd love him but we're more in the running for Blackmon/Julio Jones as far as WR goes. I can't believe I'm (and you) even thinking of a WR but Blackmon next to Andre would be killer! Blackmon continued to impress in the Bowl game with 9 rec 117 yards and 2 TDs.

Get some quality FAs in here on Defense because it's clear we need some "veterans", then load up on some of the talented guys that slip to the 2nd/3rd rounds.

Texan4Ever
12-31-2010, 03:06 PM
Man, I'm not real sure of Amukara after watching some of him... at least not a top 10 pick. Blackmon looks legit though. AJ Green is clear #1 to me and I'd love him but we're more in the running for Blackmon/Julio Jones as far as WR goes. I can't believe I'm (and you) even thinking of a WR but Blackmon next to Andre would be killer! Blackmon continued to impress in the Bowl game with 9 rec 117 yards and 2 TDs.

Get some quality FAs in here on Defense because it's clear we need some "veterans", then load up on some of the talented guys that slip to the 2nd/3rd rounds.



If McNair decides to spend money on some FA and depending on who is available (or up for trade consideration) maybe we can try and bring in Ray Edwards (DE Vikings) and Otwge (FS Rams) in exchange for draft picks and or players.

Get the linebackers to loose weight or play the position they're comfortable with and find an OLB in the draft or via FA. If we do this we can go after Blackmon and have two legit WRs with a host of solid WRs who can come in on different plays which gives us flexibility on offense and makes our air attack that much dangerous.

beerlover
12-31-2010, 03:07 PM
Man, I'm not real sure of Amukara after watching some of him... at least not a top 10 pick. Blackmon looks legit though. AJ Green is clear #1 to me and I'd love him but we're more in the running for Blackmon/Julio Jones as far as WR goes. I can't believe I'm (and you) even thinking of a WR but Blackmon next to Andre would be killer! Blackmon continued to impress in the Bowl game with 9 rec 117 yards and 2 TDs.

Get some quality FAs in here on Defense because it's clear we need some "veterans", then load up on some of the talented guys that slip to the 2nd/3rd rounds.

think you hit upon the key to Texans draft, that is they need to address & hit in free agency their defensive ineptness. need experienced CB, DT & FS. then Texans can focus on BPA for their system both sides of the ball.

SAMURAITEXAN
12-31-2010, 05:53 PM
I wouldn't mind if they get both.
Also, I've been watching a bit more of the Tides and I'm starting to warm up to Barron as well.
(I only watched one UCLA game so far, I do like Rahim Moore.)
If they can't get a FA like Atogwe, I hope that they draft 2 safeties and a NT.

Same here FS and NT need to be addressed especially, if we are moving our D to 3-4.

steelbtexan
12-31-2010, 07:32 PM
Same here FS and NT need to be addressed especially, if we are moving our D to 3-4.

And an OLB

Luckily the draft is deep enough that with Dunta's comp pick. They should be able to fill the OLB, NT and get 2 S in the 1st 3 rds.

The only way I wouldn't fill these positions is if A.J. Green was available. Then I would think about trading down. But it would alot. Green is a stud.

I like Sash,and the 2 Fla. S Hill,Black in the third. One of those guys probably would be available in the 4th rd.

JB
12-31-2010, 07:42 PM
And an OLB

Luckily the draft is deep enough that with Dunta's comp pick. They should be able to fill the OLB, NT and get 2 S in the 1st 3 rds.

The only way I wouldn't fill these positions is if A.J. Green was available. Then I would think about trading down. But it would alot. Green is a stud.

I like Sash,and the 2 Fla. S Hill,Black in the third. One of those guys probably would be available in the 4th rd.

I wouldn't take it for granted that they get a comp pick, much less a 3rd rounder.

steelbtexan
01-01-2011, 12:30 AM
Dunta will be a 16 game starter.

On a team that has the best record in the league.

There will be a comp pick the question is how high. I believe that is tied into the $$$$ paid, % of plays played, and stats.

Corrosion
01-01-2011, 02:27 AM
Dunta will be a 16 game starter.

On a team that has the best record in the league.

There will be a comp pick the question is how high. I believe that is tied into the $$$$ paid, % of plays played, and stats.

I think that pick comes in round 3 according to the metrics.

Corrosion
01-01-2011, 02:45 AM
Same here FS and NT need to be addressed especially, if we are moving our D to 3-4.


FS is a problem always has been with this team. I'd really like to see an upgrade there.

As for DT/NT I think Cody could handle that spot and move 0k0ke to DE along with Antonio Smith at the DE's .... That allows Mario to move to the rush LB , their most dynamic player at the most dynamic position along the front seven.

If Barwin is able to return healthy they become pretty scarry up front. There was a drastic drop off in pressure due to his injury. I think he could be a real solid 3-4 OLB.

And an OLB


Im more concerned with ILB and particularly Demeco Ryans. The before and after of his injury is pretty telling of his importance to this defense. The Texans were 4-2 with him , including the Chiefs game and have gone 1-7 without him.
If you look at the Chiefs game under a microscope - they gave up just under 6 YPC rushing in the first half with him on the field and well over 8 YPC in the second half without him.
With Demeco that defense was just good enough to win , without him they have been just good enough to lose.
If they go to a 3-4 ..... The Texans could line up with MW and Barwin (pending he returns to form) or MW and Cushing at the OLB spots ..... the ILB spots are a questionmark at this point.
I really think a healthy Barwin brings an interesting dynamic to the defense .... which would allow Kushing to move inside with Ryans if healthy.
Giving them a front seven comprised of - Cody @ NT , Smith and 0k0ye at the ends (I really think thats 0k0ye's best position , 3-4 DE) MW and Barwin at OLB with Demeco and Kushing inside.
If they could add a FS with range and cover skills along with Pollards toughness and run support to the back end , that defense looks pretty formidable.

steelbtexan
01-01-2011, 03:18 AM
Cant belive they were giving up 6 yds per carry (Which stinks) to 8 yds per carry. Which is pathetic)

Man this defense is bad.

But give me Bailey in FA. a NT,OLB and 2 S. this defense will be alot better next yr.

I dont thik this will happen given their draft record. (hope I'm wrong)

They need to give Phillips the pieces he needs and it still wont be enough to overcome Kubiaks' ineptitude.

Corrosion
01-01-2011, 03:38 AM
Cant belive they were giving up 6 yds per carry (Which stinks) to 8 yds per carry. Which is pathetic)Man this defense is bad.

But give me Bailey in FA. a NT,OLB and 2 S. this defense will be alot better next yr.

I dont thik this will happen given their draft record. (hope I'm wrong)

They need to give Phillips the pieces he needs and it still wont be enough to overcome Kubiaks' ineptitude.

That was just the Chiefs game - For the season they have held opposing offenses to 3.8YPC which last I looked was top 6 in the NFL. That stat is hugely overlooked due to how piss poor their pass defense is.

Ive said it a dozen times this season , the main problems with this teams defense are a lack of push in the middle of the DL (as opposed to penetration or lack there of) and a lack of player on the bck end with range and cover skills. Pollard is fantastic for what he brings but the guy opposite him has to have a skillset which offsets his shortcomings.


Envision this -

A 3-4 defense with:

Smith and 0k0ye at the ends - both very disruptive guy;s who can penetrate but not hold the point of attack.

A solid NT in Cody who's big enough to get the job done and disruptive enough to demand a double (thats my opinion).

MW and Barwin at the OLB - both athletic enough to rush the passer and cover most players out of the back field or TE's. (believe it or not the biggest step back this defense took was the loss of Barwin.)

Ryans and Kushing inside - simply a dominant duo inside.

The secondary as is is questionable - but an upgrade to the FS spot helps tremendously not to mention the pass rush above should be near impossible to stop / predict.
Jackson and Quin might actually be servicable with a solid FS under the above circumstances.
I really like the NASTY thaty Pollard brings to the back end - I wouldnt trade him for a case of Shiner.

SAMURAITEXAN
01-01-2011, 06:24 AM
FS is a problem always has been with this team. I'd really like to see an upgrade there.

As for DT/NT I think Cody could handle that spot and move 0k0ke to DE along with Antonio Smith at the DE's .... That allows Mario to move to the rush LB , their most dynamic player at the most dynamic position along the front seven.

If Barwin is able to return healthy they become pretty scarry up front. There was a drastic drop off in pressure due to his injury. I think he could be a real solid 3-4 OLB.



Im more concerned with ILB and particularly Demeco Ryans. The before and after of his injury is pretty telling of his importance to this defense. The Texans were 4-2 with him , including the Chiefs game and have gone 1-7 without him.
If you look at the Chiefs game under a microscope - they gave up just under 6 YPC rushing in the first half with him on the field and well over 8 YPC in the second half without him.
With Demeco that defense was just good enough to win , without him they have been just good enough to lose.
If they go to a 3-4 ..... The Texans could line up with MW and Barwin (pending he returns to form) or MW and Cushing at the OLB spots ..... the ILB spots are a questionmark at this point.
I really think a healthy Barwin brings an interesting dynamic to the defense .... which would allow Kushing to move inside with Ryans if healthy.
Giving them a front seven comprised of - Cody @ NT , Smith and 0k0ye at the ends (I really think thats 0k0ye's best position , 3-4 DE) MW and Barwin at OLB with Demeco and Kushing inside.
If they could add a FS with range and cover skills along with Pollards toughness and run support to the back end , that defense looks pretty formidable.

I hope Cody can handle it however, I have been wishing for a big NT for quite while and I want some action from our FO at least to look at the NT position again in draft and FA or both. For FS, how long us fans been wishing to address this position? Too long right? I hope our FO look really hard this year.

steelbtexan
01-01-2011, 11:20 AM
That was just the Chiefs game - For the season they have held opposing offenses to 3.8YPC which last I looked was top 6 in the NFL. That stat is hugely overlooked due to how piss poor their pass defense is.

Ive said it a dozen times this season , the main problems with this teams defense are a lack of push in the middle of the DL (as opposed to penetration or lack there of) and a lack of player on the bck end with range and cover skills. Pollard is fantastic for what he brings but the guy opposite him has to have a skillset which offsets his shortcomings.


Envision this -

A 3-4 defense with:

Smith and 0k0ye at the ends - both very disruptive guy;s who can penetrate but not hold the point of attack.

A solid NT in Cody who's big enough to get the job done and disruptive enough to demand a double (thats my opinion).

MW and Barwin at the OLB - both athletic enough to rush the passer and cover most players out of the back field or TE's. (believe it or not the biggest step back this defense took was the loss of Barwin.)

Ryans and Kushing inside - simply a dominant duo inside.

The secondary as is is questionable - but an upgrade to the FS spot helps tremendously not to mention the pass rush above should be near impossible to stop / predict.
Jackson and Quin might actually be servicable with a solid FS under the above circumstances.
I really like the NASTY thaty Pollard brings to the back end - I wouldnt trade him for a case of Shiner.

Didn't know that you were just talking about the Chiefs game. This makes me ? why the Chiefs threw the ball on 3rd and 2 from the Houston 38. The pass was incomplete and they punted. With stats like that they should've run the ball.

Defense has a chance to be much improved, I'm not a big Cody fan. But adding a big vet NT in FA and drafting one would solve that problem. Getting a S or 2 with speed is a must either in the draft or FA is a must.

The holes can be filled this offseason. However I dont expect Uncle BoB to open up his checkbook and Smith and Kubiak (if he evven has time to go to the Combine) will screw up the draft. Look at their history.

With that said, even if they filled all of the holes the best you can hope for with Kubiak is a one and done in the playoffs. Thanks BOB

76Texan
01-01-2011, 10:58 PM
I haven't seen much of this guy which is why I want to watch him in a bowl game but my conclusions are the following A.) Prince could be grossly overrated and or being hyped up by draft gurus purely based on a few solid games he's had and B.) It seems to me that if you want a cornerback who can take on a receiver without needing support from safeties then Prince is NOT your guy.

Also, either Blackmon is the next AJ or Prince really has technique issues such as backpedaling and getting himself in position to at least knock the ball away.

Back to Prince A.
I have now watched 4 games (Okl. St, UT, Mizzou, and Iowa St.).
In all honesty, I don't see how he can get a first rounder grade.
(I'll keep watching though!)

Neb mostly played 2-deep safeties.
Sometimes they would play man on the receivers but when they do, almost all the times, there are 3 safeties in the back.
They played more underneath zones than man coverage though, either 4 or 5 zones.
Prince hardly got off his man to support the run (and when he tried, his success rate was low - just to get off his man.)
In summary, Prince's area of responsibility is quite small comparing with guys like Janoris Jenkins who was used to cover man most of the times.
The Cornhuskers were able to get pressure with just the front four (maybe we ought to take a longer look at these guys.)
Also, Prince is one of those CBs who makes good use of the lax college rule "hand on the receiver" beyond 5 yds off the LOS.
Anybody knows of his measurables? He does have a good burst but I'm not sure that he's faster than Kareem Jackson. He doesn't seem to have an extraordinary vertical leap either! (Quin 38", KJ 37.5").

Texan4Ever
01-02-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm under the impression that Prince Amukamara is being hyped up by draft experts who are purely going after his intangibles (which makes no sense to me). At this point, I wouldn't even go after him in the 2nd round because of the serious flaws in his game.

He is NOT a cover-corner and if he can't contain the top receivers in the NCAA, how can he do so in the NFL?

beerlover
01-02-2011, 09:38 PM
this is pure specualtion my part but Prince Amukamara is the #1 rated CB because he is the top rated senior CB. The other top rated CB's are underclassman yet to declare intentions?

We'll know their status soon, last day for all eligible underclassman to declare early entry into 2011 NFL draft is January 15th.

76Texan
01-04-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm under the impression that Prince Amukamara is being hyped up by draft experts who are purely going after his intangibles (which makes no sense to me). At this point, I wouldn't even go after him in the 2nd round because of the serious flaws in his game.

He is NOT a cover-corner and if he can't contain the top receivers in the NCAA, how can he do so in the NFL?

I watched 4 more games (Ks, Ks St, A&M, and Colorado).
In a couple of instances, he showed some flashes of his ability to stay with the receiver in the short area. The movements were fluid, the reactions were excellent (but only on a few plays). They don't throw at him much.
He had 5 pass break ups in these 4 games, two of them were somewhat simple, and just missed an INT on one play.
He played the run well in a couple of those games, especially in the A&M game (in which his production almost equaled the previous 4 games combined in run support, and looked good doing it.)
Basically, since they didn't throw at him much, it seems like the coaches started sending him to support the run (as opposed to concentrating on the receiver.)
I think he also have a good game against the Sooners but I haven't watched it yet.)

He was beaten on medium deep routes by the receivers a few times but the QB didn't look his way.
He stayed close with them on many occasions (however, he often made contact with them beyond 5 yds like I mentioned before, which was allowed in the NCAA.)

Overall, I see him more as a prospect than a first rounder.
(Depending on his measurables at the combine, a 2nd or 3rd round grade???).
I would probably have to go back to last year tapes to see more of how he defended the deeper routes (which at the moment I'm not sure he can be successful at on the NFL level) except I don't think we will be drafting a CB early.
(- If we're going to keep Allen.)

Dennard and Hagg showed up much more than Amukarama this year. If it looks like we're going to draft a CB, I will go back and look closer at Hagg (who is a Senior.) What grade does he have?

The FG/punter Henery looks really good.
I didn't pay attention to him closely in the earlier games, but the FGs he made in these last 4 games were well within the NFL posts, almost all of them dead center. I heard he made some in the 60-yd range during practices.

His punting is also good.
His longest was over 60 yds.
Due to his kicking style, with more practice, I think he can send them out of bound inside the 20 more consistently.

76Texan
01-04-2011, 10:48 AM
this is pure specualtion my part but Prince Amukamara is the #1 rated CB because he is the top rated senior CB. The other top rated CB's are underclassman yet to declare intentions?

We'll know their status soon, last day for all eligible underclassman to declare early entry into 2011 NFL draft is January 15th.

He's a good college CB in that system where they can get pressure with mainly just the front four.
His production last year (2009) was good.
However, if we look closer, his INTs (5 of them, as opposed to zero this year) were mostly in games where the QBs were green and/or had an overall bad day. And don't forget Suh's presence.

beerlover
01-04-2011, 01:30 PM
He's a good college CB in that system where they can get pressure with mainly just the front four.
His production last year (2009) was good.
However, if we look closer, his INTs (5 of them, as opposed to zero this year) were mostly in games where the QBs were green and/or had an overall bad day. And don't forget Suh's presence.

you know who he kinda reminds me of?



















Antrel Rolle, selected 8th overall in 05 by zona. later moved to FS in Arizona run to Super Bowl. & this year picked up in FA by the Giants. To me both are physcial players, good make-up for safety. What we see in coverage is slightly stiff hips, not fluid in change of direction desired for position. Is a system fit type of db with flexability to play all positions as needed. So if the Texans work him out maybe it's not as CB but FS?

MojoMan
01-04-2011, 01:55 PM
Of course mock drafts are worth what you pay for them, but here is the updated mock draft from the Great Blue North Draft Report (http://www.gbnreport.com/2011projection.html). As you can see here and at NFLDraftScout Patrick Peterson (6-1, 222, 4.42, LSU) (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83210&draftyear=2012&genpos=CB) appears to be the number one ranked CB at this time. However, according the GBN's mock, he will be taken off the board one pick before the Texans get to choose, by the Washington Redskins.

This guy appears to be one of the biggest true CB's I have ever seen.

1 Carolina *Andrew Luck QB Stanford
2 Denver *Da'Quan Bowers DE Clemson
3 Buffalo *Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri
4 Cincinnati *Nick Fairley DE Auburn
5 Arizona *Ryan Mallett QB Arkansas
6 Cleveland *A.J. Green WR Georgia
7 San Francisco *Cam Newton QB Auburn
8 Tennessee *Justin Blackmon WR Oklahoma State
9 Dallas *Marcel Dareus DE Alabama
10 Washington *Patrick Peterson CB LSU
11 Houston *Robert Quinn DE North Carolina
12 Minnesota Jake Locker QB Washington
13 Detroit Adrian Clayborn DE Iowa
14 St. Louis *Julio Jones WR Alabama
15 Miami *Mark Ingram RB Alabama
16 Jacksonville Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
17 New England Allen Bailey DE Miami
18 San Diego Von Miller LB Texas A&M
19 New York Giants Nate Solder OT Colorado
20 Tampa Bay *Aldon Smith DE Missouri
*21 Seattle Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska
*22 Kansas City *Akeem Ayers LB UCLA
*23 Indianapolis Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi State
*24 Philadelphia Stephen Paea DT Oregon State
*25 Green Bay *J.J. Watt DE Wisconsin
*26 New Orleans Marvin Austin DT North Carolina
*27 Chicago Anthony Castonzo OT Boston College
*28 New York Jets Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
*29 Baltimore Cameron Jordan DE California
*30 Pittsburgh Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin
*31 Atlanta *Michael Floyd WR Notre Dame
*32 New England *Justin Houston LB Georgia

SAMURAITEXAN
01-04-2011, 05:01 PM
And an OLB

Luckily the draft is deep enough that with Dunta's comp pick. They should be able to fill the OLB, NT and get 2 S in the 1st 3 rds.

The only way I wouldn't fill these positions is if A.J. Green was available. Then I would think about trading down. But it would alot. Green is a stud.

I like Sash,and the 2 Fla. S Hill,Black in the third. One of those guys probably would be available in the 4th rd.

Agree. Oh me, totally left our LB position. You are right, we are already thin on the position especially if we are moving our D to 3-4. (Barwin should be a good fit at OLB position if healthy).

beerlover
01-04-2011, 05:25 PM
Brandon Harris has just declared he is coming out early http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010411aaa.html

keyser
01-04-2011, 07:01 PM
Of course mock drafts are worth what you pay for them, but here is the updated mock draft from the Great Blue North Draft Report (http://www.gbnreport.com/2011projection.html).

That mock has 5 QBs (and 4 DEs) being taken in the first 12 picks! I would love for there to be a run on QBs that early: seeing as I don't think the Texans will be selecting a QB, that should really help the choices available to them (though the run on DL will not help...).

76Texan
01-18-2011, 10:59 AM
How about somebody putting up a ranking of the FS, SS, and CB for this upcoming draft?

bah007
01-18-2011, 02:28 PM
How about somebody putting up a ranking of the FS, SS, and CB for this upcoming draft?

Here is what I have so far. Some guys I've seen a lot more of than others. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm open to them. I dvr as many games as I can, but I still can't watch everybody.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
5. Aaron Williams - Texas
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Davon House - New Mexico St
8. Brandon Burton - Utah

FS
1. Rahim Moore - UCLA
2. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
3. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Will Hill - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Tyler Sash - Iowa
3. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
4. Robert Sands - West Virginia
5. Tejay Johnson - TCU

Section516
01-18-2011, 02:36 PM
If we draft a CB in the first and have him starting, i will /wrist...

However, if we draft a CB, and sign two via FA..I think i could get over it =)

TexansSeminole
01-18-2011, 06:59 PM
Here is what I have so far. Some guys I've seen a lot more of than others. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm open to them. I dvr as many games as I can, but I still can't watch everybody.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami I like Aaron Williams more than Brandon Harris.
4. Jimmy Smith - Colorado Haven't seen him play much.
5. Aaron Williams - Texas
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia Solid player but nothing spectacular.
7. Davon House - New Mexico St
8. Brandon Burton - Utah

FS
1. Rahim Moore - UCLA
2. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
3. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - TempleDon't know him.
5. Will Hill - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Tyler Sash - Iowa
3. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
4. Robert Sands - West Virginia
5. Tejay Johnson - TCU


I like it. Our S rankings are practically dead on, except I don't know this guy from Temple.

bah007
01-18-2011, 07:32 PM
I like it. Our S rankings are practically dead on, except I don't know this guy from Temple.

Jarrett hasn't really received that much publicity yet. I think he will eventually as we get closer to the draft.

He doesn't have great size, but he has decent size. I don't know exactly but he is around 6'0" 200 lbs.

I saw a few Temple games this year and although he doesn't have great speed, he is all over the field making plays. He was a four year starter and led the team in INTs the last three years. He was also second on the team in tackles this year and last, and led the team in tackles as a soph.

He seems to be a very smart player. He just seems to know what is happening around him. He's not an elite athlete, but he makes up for it.

He probably will not be the fourth FS drafted, but I just fell in love with the guy while watching him. He's just a gutsy, intelligent player.

76Texan
01-18-2011, 11:29 PM
You don't have Eric Hagg (Nebraska) on your list?

I saw McDaniel play mostly FS against Maryland.
Solid (just as I remember him from last year - off my memory), but I'd like to watch more of him, just as Johnson.

Sash, in the 3 games that I watch so far, plays more as a prototype SS.
He made a couple of mistakes, but overall was pretty good.
He's like a bullet, lock-load-and ready to go, as soon as he makes his read.
He's another possibility.

bah007
01-19-2011, 12:32 AM
You don't have Eric Hagg (Nebraska) on your list?

I saw McDaniel play mostly FS against Maryland.
Solid (just as I remember him from last year - off my memory), but I'd like to watch more of him, just as Johnson.

Sash, in the 3 games that I watch so far, plays more as a prototype SS.
He made a couple of mistakes, but overall was pretty good.
He's like a bullet, lock-load-and ready to go, as soon as he makes his read.
He's another possibility.

Hagg is in my top ten. I just posted the top 5.

I think McDaniel can play either safety spot in the NFL. I just listed him at SS. He would be my #3 FS.

I like Sash. He is limited athletically, but he has great instincts. Almost always the first hat to the ball.

kiwitexansfan
01-19-2011, 02:18 PM
I'd love to have Hagg, he brings an all around game that Pollard only dreams about.

Texan4Ever
01-19-2011, 07:49 PM
I'd love to have Hagg, he brings an all around game that Pollard only dreams about.

Could Tyler Sash play SS for us? Seems built for a FS but regardless of position he is a ball-hawk that can hit.

bah007
01-19-2011, 07:55 PM
Could Tyler Sash play SS for us? Seems built for a FS but regardless of position he is a ball-hawk that can hit.

Sash is definitely a SS in the pros. He is a decent athlete, but not fluid enough to be a FS.

I'm a big fan of his in the second or third round.

Insideop
01-21-2011, 07:17 PM
Here is what I have so far. Some guys I've seen a lot more of than others. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm open to them. I dvr as many games as I can, but I still can't watch everybody.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
5. Aaron Williams - Texas
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Davon House - New Mexico St
8. Brandon Burton - Utah

FS
1. Rahim Moore - UCLA
2. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
3. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Will Hill - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Tyler Sash - Iowa
3. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
4. Robert Sands - West Virginia
5. Tejay Johnson - TCU

How much better is R. Moore than Q. Carter in your opinion? I've seen Carter rated as the top FS and Moore the 2nd rated. Both are projected to go in the 2nd round.

rmartin65
01-21-2011, 07:27 PM
You really cant go wrong with most of the top rated safeties in the next draft.

Moore, Williams, Carter, Jarrett, McDaniel, Sash, all are players I would like to see on the Texans.

steelbtexan
01-21-2011, 08:53 PM
Sash is somebody that should fall to the middle of the 3rd to the top of the 4th rd.

If you pick a NT like Fua at pick # 66 or so and Sash is sitting there at 80-85 would you be willing to give up oh say Okoye and a 4th to move up and draft Sash?

beerlover
01-21-2011, 11:14 PM
Sash is somebody that should fall to the middle of the 3rd to the top of the 4th rd.

If you pick a NT like Fua at pick # 66 or so and Sash is sitting there at 80-85 would you be willing to give up oh say Okoye and a 4th to move up and draft Sash?

can't believe I'm saying this, but Amobi Okoye is near untouchable.

with total investment & unknown, can any of us truely state that he's been put into the best of positions to maximize his abilites? I'm willing to error on the side of caution. Let's say he just needs some tweeking, a new position (3-4 DE) & take advantage of his God given special talent, that was shedding blockers & sacking the QB which was the reason for being selected 10th overall in first place.

steelbtexan
01-22-2011, 01:17 AM
I know how you feel.

But after seeing how bad the secondary was this yr.

I'm willing to go to extremes, (trading Okoye) trading up to get Peterson, signing ASO,Bailey.Taylor) to fix what has been aproblem for yrs.

If you're honest with your evaluations the only competent DB on the current roster is Quin and they have him playing out of position.

The Texans problem is they are always thinking about how to fill a hole today so they can make the playoffs. Instead of saying we'got defensive problems. This yr we'reoing to fix the secondary by any means necessary and look forward to the 2012 draft to fix the DL/LB's.

They need to admit the numbers dont lie and it's going to take 2 yrs to fix this historically bad defense.

The down side to this is AJ will be 2 yrs older before they make the playoffs and Kubiak didn't do him any favors by letting him play on a sprained ankle all yr.

Even though Bob paid AJ I feel for him.

76Texan
01-22-2011, 10:56 AM
Here is what I have so far. Some guys I've seen a lot more of than others. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm open to them. I dvr as many games as I can, but I still can't watch everybody.


FS
1. Rahim Moore - UCLA
2. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
3. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Will Hill - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Tyler Sash - Iowa
3. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
4. Robert Sands - West Virginia
5. Tejay Johnson - TCU

Early impressions, I got:
Moore > Carter > Hill
Moore and Carter both look good.
Either one of them would transplant Wilson (probably) sooner rather than later..

Not enough of watching McDaniel to evaluate yet, but he isn't bad.

Sash plays

76Texan
01-22-2011, 11:16 AM
BTW, CB Minniefield had a really up-and-down (mostly down) game against USC.
He was torched 5 times by a couple of different receivers (one of them a Fr).
Maybe it was a game earlier in the season and his techniques weren't sound yet?!?
Otherwise, he looks physical; he dished out some and received some back.
Whhen he wasn't beaten deep, he stuck well with the receivers.
But it was an ugly, ugly game for him!
(Dowling didn't play in this game).

76Texan
01-22-2011, 02:48 PM
Early impressions, I got:
Moore > Carter > Hill
Moore and Carter both look good.
Either one of them would transplant Wilson (probably) sooner rather than later..

Not enough of watching McDaniel to evaluate yet, but he isn't bad.

Sash plays

Post got cut off for some reason.

About Sash, he played mostly as a cover 2 SS.
I have some concern about him going one-on-one with a receiver/TE and in the red zone. (5 games is still a small sample, though).

About Johnson, I thought I saw him playing more like a FS.
Did he play SS the year before?
I know he put on some big hits last year, but this year, I saw him lost twice against the RB near the goal line (in 2 games).
What is it about him gaining some weigh for the Shriner game?
Did he play around 195-198 lbs during the season and is now listed at 210 lbs so he can play better at SS?

Another guy who just enters my radar is Andrew Rich (BYU), SS, listed between 6'2-6'3, 223 lbs.
He looks super against TCU.
Very quick to the ball (He had something like 10 solos and 3 assists in this game).
Made a big hit on the TE to jar the ball loose up the middle.
He ran with the receiver well a few times so as to dissuade the QB from going that way and broke up a pass on another occasion.
Even on the last TD pass by Dalton, he wasn't too bad in coverage.
(He made the low tackle that almost foil the nice catch.)
The WR just made a very nice in-out move on the post-corner route and Dalton threw a perfect pass.
If only the LB could have stayed with the receiver - another yard or two - to prevent the faked post look, Rich probably would have been able to defend that pass.

bah007
01-24-2011, 12:55 AM
Post got cut off for some reason.

About Sash, he played mostly as a cover 2 SS.
I have some concern about him going one-on-one with a receiver/TE and in the red zone. (5 games is still a small sample, though).

I love Sash but you're right here. I don't see him covering guys like Dallas Clark one on one.

About Johnson, I thought I saw him playing more like a FS.
Did he play SS the year before?
I know he put on some big hits last year, but this year, I saw him lost twice against the RB near the goal line (in 2 games).
What is it about him gaining some weigh for the Shriner game?
Did he play around 195-198 lbs during the season and is now listed at 210 lbs so he can play better at SS?

Johnson has been trying to bulk up and for good reason. He is being told that he doesn't have the speed to play FS, and instead of getting an ego about it he is trying to make himself the most attractive SS prospect he can.

Another guy who just enters my radar is Andrew Rich (BYU), SS, listed between 6'2-6'3, 223 lbs.
He looks super against TCU.
Very quick to the ball (He had something like 10 solos and 3 assists in this game).
Made a big hit on the TE to jar the ball loose up the middle.
He ran with the receiver well a few times so as to dissuade the QB from going that way and broke up a pass on another occasion.
Even on the last TD pass by Dalton, he wasn't too bad in coverage.
(He made the low tackle that almost foil the nice catch.)
The WR just made a very nice in-out move on the post-corner route and Dalton threw a perfect pass.
If only the LB could have stayed with the receiver - another yard or two - to prevent the faked post look, Rich probably would have been able to defend that pass.

We're on the same page here. I've got Rich on my watch list but haven't been able to watch very much of him. My evaluation of him is incomplete right now, but I saw the same things you did in the TCU game. Very impressed.

76Texan
01-25-2011, 12:03 AM
We're on the same page here. I've got Rich on my watch list but haven't been able to watch very much of him. My evaluation of him is incomplete right now, but I saw the same things you did in the TCU game. Very impressed.

Yeah, we need to watch more of him. Could be a sleeper here.

Also, in this game, Tejay Johnson was kinda undistinguished, so I don't have a pulse on him yet.

On the other hand, I watched 2 more games in which Antwine Perez (Maryland) played (against Navy and BC).
He caught my attention in the game against Clemson (while watching McDaniel) with some good plays, including a terrific pass break-up - an article will follow to describe it, even though I don't think it did quite the justice.)

I want to watch the Navy game because I'm thinking we can find out how he tackles in open space (agaisnt that triple option run game, there should be instances that the need arises - Sure enough, there were quite a few.)
Perez looks like a very good open-field tackler (in this game and also in the game against BC).

Against BC, he also displayed good hand and eye co-ordination along with good awareness to make the INT near the side line (he had 2 Ints in this game).

Overall, in the 3 games, it's often difficult to tell the difference between Perez and Kenny Tate (even though Tate is bigger, around 6'4-220, and is projected by NFLDraftScout to be the #1 FS in next year draft).

They played interchangeably (Tate is brought up near the LOS more while Perez actually played a little more as a FS) and worked well together.
They combined to stop a couple of wouldabeen TD run near the goal line (one resulted in a fumble that Perez recovered). He recovered another fumble in a short yardage situation in much the same fashion, showing great awareness for the ball (and again, hand/eye coordination).

I think he could be another sleeper.
But can he do it at the next level?
It's interesting to find out that he was a 5-star recruit out of HS and was offered scholarship by 47 schools.
I found this article that probably sums up the whole deal:

http://maryland.247sports.com/Article/Perez-Fought-His-Way-to-a-Standout-Senior-Season-4381

bah007
01-25-2011, 03:56 AM
I like Perez. He really doesn't have that much experience at FS which is weird considering what a high profile recruit he was. He has changed positions back and forth until he finally settled in at FS this year. Had 74 tackles (4th on team), 7 TFL (3rd), 3 INT (2nd), and a sack.

I think he is definitely a sleeper and considering his athletic ability he may pan out as a very solid FS. Seems like he can do a little bit of everything. Very versatile. I need to watch more of him to see where I would grade him. I'm sure the lack of experience will hurt him, and I'm sure he will be grilled by interviewers about his transfer. We all know how every little thing gets blown up as the draft gets nearer.

bah007
01-28-2011, 05:11 AM
Here is my updated secondary rankings. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm still open to them. I've been able to watch a few more games this past week and I also watched some of the Senior Bowl stuff. Things will probably keep changing here and there as I catch up on the games I recorded this season.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Aaron Williams - Texas
5. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Johnny Patrick - Louisville
8. Kendric Burney - North Carolina
9. Jalil Brown - Colorado
10. Davon House - New Mexico St

FS
1. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
2. Rahim Moore - UCLA
3. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Ahmad Black - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Robert Sands - West Virginia
3. Tyler Sash - Iowa
4. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
5. Da'Norris Searcy - North Carolina

Texan4Ever
01-28-2011, 02:51 PM
Here is my updated secondary rankings. The rankings are still in progress and if anybody has any critiques I'm still open to them. I've been able to watch a few more games this past week and I also watched some of the Senior Bowl stuff. Things will probably keep changing here and there as I catch up on the games I recorded this season.

CB
1. Patrick Peterson - LSU
2. Prince Amukamara - Nebraska
3. Brandon Harris - Miami
4. Aaron Williams - Texas
5. Jimmy Smith - Colorado
6. Ras-I Dowling - Virginia
7. Johnny Patrick - Louisville
8. Kendric Burney - North Carolina
9. Jalil Brown - Colorado
10. Davon House - New Mexico St

FS
1. Quinton Carter - Oklahoma
2. Rahim Moore - UCLA
3. Deunta Williams - North Carolina
4. Jaiquawn Jarrett - Temple
5. Ahmad Black - Florida

SS
1. DeAndre McDaniel - Clemson
2. Robert Sands - West Virginia
3. Tyler Sash - Iowa
4. Jeron Johnson - Boise St
5. Da'Norris Searcy - North Carolina


Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

bah007
01-28-2011, 03:29 PM
Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

You do have a point. I like Prince because he is so physical. He can really press and he won't get pushed around much by even the bigger WRs in the NFL.

All three are good tacklers and solid in run support. Harris seems the most agile and athletic of the three so I can see that argument. Prince and Smith are about the same size, but Prince seems more fluid. And while Smith is no sissy, he doesn't give it to a WR the same way that Amukamara does.

76Texan
01-28-2011, 04:43 PM
Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

At the moment I tend to agree.

1. Peterson
2. Harris
3. Amukamara

I've yet to study the other CBs so I can't say about the rest.

FS
Carter & Moore are sort of running neck to neck for me at the moment, even though I start to see that Carter seems to bring a bit more phisicality to the game.
Williams has done nothing for me in the 2 games I watched; I wonder where the guy from last year is now.
Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature.
Yet to study the other guy(s).

SS
No complain from me on the rating so far.

Texan4Ever
01-28-2011, 04:59 PM
You do have a point. I like Prince because he is so physical. He can really press and he won't get pushed around much by even the bigger WRs in the NFL.

All three are good tacklers and solid in run support. Harris seems the most agile and athletic of the three so I can see that argument. Prince and Smith are about the same size, but Prince seems more fluid. And while Smith is no sissy, he doesn't give it to a WR the same way that Amukamara does.

At the moment I tend to agree.

1. Peterson
2. Harris
3. Amukamara

I've yet to study the other CBs so I can't say about the rest.

FS
Carter & Moore are sort of running neck to neck for me at the moment, even though I start to see that Carter seems to bring a bit more phisicality to the game.
Williams has done nothing for me in the 2 games I watched; I wonder where the guy from last year is now.
Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature.
Yet to study the other guy(s).

SS
No complain from me on the rating so far.



Have you guys seen any tape on Prince against another wide receiver besides Blackmon? I'm nut sure if Prince is overrated or Blackmon a stud WR because in the clips I have seen of Prince VS Blackmon, Blackmon makes Prince look foolish and gets passed him fairly easily for the TD.

bah007
01-28-2011, 06:29 PM
Have you guys seen any tape on Prince against another wide receiver besides Blackmon? I'm nut sure if Prince is overrated or Blackmon a stud WR because in the clips I have seen of Prince VS Blackmon, Blackmon makes Prince look foolish and gets passed him fairly easily for the TD.

Blackmon is pretty damn good, imo.

bah007
01-28-2011, 06:31 PM
I'm not going to change my ranking on this one, at least not yet, but I will concede that it's not a stretch to rate Harris above Amukamara.

I would put Prince no lower than #3 though. I don't think Smith or Aaron Williams are quite in his class.

bah007
01-28-2011, 06:38 PM
...Black is a good college player but I'm concerned about how he projects at the pro-level given his stature....

I'm not too worried about Black. I would rather have a guy like him who has the necessary skills than a guy with the prototypical size who just doesn't have it.

I will say that the team that drafts him may try him out at CB to see if he can make it work.

76Texan
01-29-2011, 12:28 AM
Good work! The only changes I would recommend is moving Prince Amukamara down and switching spots with Jimmy Smith or Brandon Harris. The reason I say this is because Smith and Harris can play on an island whereas Prince plays well only with the support of safeties from what I've seen (could be wrong but will see at the combine).

I watched about 6 games so far, and I'm not impressed.
I don't see him as a first rounder at this moment.
I didn't take down any notes, but I knew that he got beat at least a couple of times deep (on one play, the QB didn't see the open receiver; on the other I can't remember whether the QB missed the receiver or Price was bailed out by the safety.)
He was outmuscled by the receiver at least once, giving up an inside route.
On another play, he got beat and just held the receiver, taking a PI call (which is the way to play).
He was also flagged for a PI on another play.
And as I've said before, from time to time, you can see him putting a hand on the receiver beyond the 5-yd allowance in the NFL (but legal in the NCAA) to keep the receiver from getting separation.

76Texan
01-29-2011, 12:31 AM
I'm not too worried about Black. I would rather have a guy like him who has the necessary skills than a guy with the prototypical size who just doesn't have it.

I will say that the team that drafts him may try him out at CB to see if he can make it work.

I'd really like to find out about all his measurables.
Also, I'm still studying him.
I like his game so far, but he would have to play pretty big consistently to convince me that he can be a legit starter in the NFL.

76Texan
01-29-2011, 12:49 AM
I'm warming up to Andrew Rich now.
I've seen him against Ponder (Fl St), Dalton (TCU), and Kaepernick (Nevada).
They even moved him to single deep safety a majority of the time against Nevada, and he didn't miss a beat.

He would have looked even more like a bullet than Sash if he's of the same size.
One play that stood out to me was when the DE chased the RB to the outside and was able to tackled him low 3 yds behind the LOS. (He might have gotten the full stop without Rich's help, but it's hard to tell.)
But, at any rate, Rich was at least 12 yds from the LOS.
He read the play and reacted so quickly that he was right on top the RB just after the DE got to his feet.

There are several instances that he was put on a receiver and was able to stay with them one-on-one.
They even put him on receivers in the red zone quite often.

I'm inclined to (but not quite sure if I'm ready) move him up to the third spot in either safety position because he also shows good range as the lone safety deep, giving help over the top from side line to side line.

I don't think he has tremendous speed. He just reads plays quickly and gets a good jump on the ball.

NOTE: I've seen both Sash & Rich got beat when they stepped up too aggresively (Sash bit on the play action fake while Rich anticipated a short pass out to the flat to the RB and left his help assignment a bit too soon). But I don't see these as terrible, unless they are repeated!

76Texan
01-29-2011, 02:07 AM
Moore's stock just took a nose dive for me.
Against WSU, he got beat badly on a double move inside the 10 and was toasted for a TD.
On the 2nd TD (also in the red zone), he took such poor position and angle that he couldn't get there in time to help the nickel back to break up the pass.
In the second half, Moore abandoned his responsibility in his 1/2 of the field (in cover 2) and chased the route to the other side (receivers running crossing routes from both sides). That left the receiver wide open for a very long gain.
There was another instance- but it slipped my mind now (where it looked like Moore didn't do the job a safety is supposed to.)

Then, in the game against Stanford, for some reason, Moore misjudged the throw and strayed too far from his deep post position. The RCB was beaten a few steps by the post route (either that, or he was supposed to trail the play and to look to protect underneath route).
There were receivers running deep routes on both sides and it did not look like the CBs were supposed to drop into 3-deep coverage. In this case, Moore shoulda stayed back as far as the deepest man, but he didn't. TD!

76Texan
01-29-2011, 01:05 PM
Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

.....

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

...

While I'm at it, here are some more plays:
- Amukamara was all over a slant route, but he was credited for a pass breakup instead of an PI.
- Amukamara held the receiver past the 5yd but no PI was called.
(The 5-yard contact zone is only an NFL rule. In college and high school, defensive backs are permitted to chuck receivers anywhere on the field, so long as they don't hold or commit pass interference once a forward pass is thrown.)
In this case, Prince didn't just chuck the receiver, he held him.
- On another play, Prince was called for PI (he had to hold the receiver as he was about to get beat.)

beerlover
01-30-2011, 10:22 PM
Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

.....

Here's another play that makes me leary about Amukamara:
Against Locker (Wash), the Corshuskers were in cover 2 with 5 underneath man coverage.
The Y receiver ran a skinny post and was wide open for a TD.
The safety somehow missed his assignment and step up for the shorter route.
While it's true that Prince didn't get the help he should have gotten from his safety, the fact remains that he was beaten deep.
He was in man coverage and should be able stay closer to his man to be considered a first round pick.
The receiver got him with a stop and go move.

Note: They say Locker is still raw and I can see why.
He's inconsistent in his reads, and his progression is not quite there yet (even though on this play, he got it right).
He looks to have a lot of tools though!

...

While I'm at it, here are some more plays:
- Amukamara was all over a slant route, but he was credited for a pass breakup instead of an PI.
- Amukamara held the receiver past the 5yd but no PI was called.
(The 5-yard contact zone is only an NFL rule. In college and high school, defensive backs are permitted to chuck receivers anywhere on the field, so long as they don't hold or commit pass interference once a forward pass is thrown.)
In this case, Prince didn't just chuck the receiver, he held him.
- On another play, Prince was called for PI (he had to hold the receiver as he was about to get beat.)

OK you've convinced me, maybe Texans take a look @ him in the second & swing him over to FS?

76Texan
02-01-2011, 04:29 PM
OK you've convinced me, maybe Texans take a look @ him in the second & swing him over to FS?

May be he still needs to improve on his technique?
I've seen him a bit high out of his break here and there.
When he stays low, he turns and sticks very well.
He may still be a good CB with some good coaching; his hips seem fluid enough (along with other positive traits.)
Whatever we saw on the field might not be the end product that we will see in the NFL.

It would be a good possibility to consider him as a FS in the second round; however, if Wade has already thought out loud about moving Quin to FS, maybe they will go for another CB in FA or in the draft, I dunno!

76Texan
02-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Did anyone watch the OU/Cincy game?
I can't quite see clearly the formation and the routes on the two plays where DJ Wood got free for two long gains.
It looks like Carter was the culprit both times, but the other safety (#3 Nelson) saved him both times.
He also bit on the exact same play (if the above was true) again in the same game (this time, he was surely the culprit.)
Plus he also committed one or two other errors (bigger than minor).
His stock is droppong for me.

If we're just grading these prospects based on what happened on the field, I might have to put Andrew Rich as the top safety of this class (oh boy!)

drs23
02-01-2011, 06:35 PM
May be he still needs to improve on his technique?
I've seen him a bit high out of his break here and there.
When he stays low, he turns and sticks very well.
He may still be a good CB with some good coaching; his hips seem fluid enough (along with other positive traits.)
Whatever we saw on the field might not be the end product that we will see in the NFL.

It would be a good possibility to consider him as a FS in the second round; however, if Wade has already thought out loud about moving Quin to FS, maybe they will go for another CB in FA or in the draft, I dunno!

This has been tossed around, though I've not personally read it that I recall. Anyone have a link? FWIW, a good move in my book.

76Texan
02-03-2011, 12:03 AM
This has been tossed around, though I've not personally read it that I recall. Anyone have a link? FWIW, a good move in my book.

I thought I saw a link that somebody posted, but I can't find it anywhere.

The closest I got is this:

“We’ve definitely got to get better, and that’s across the board,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “In free agency, if there’s a corner or a defensive lineman, if that helps us, we’ve got to look at those options.


“I don't know if there’s just one move. I think we’ve got to look at a variety of things. There are possibilities with some of our players (secondary) actually moving (to new positions). That’s something that we’ve talked about.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=teamreports-2011-nfl-hou&bcmt=7253832#mwpphu-comment-7253832

But it could be a lot of things:
Personally, I think Jackson and Quin can play nickel, CB, or safety.
Allen had played safety for the Dolphins before, so he can always be moved as well.

drs23
02-03-2011, 12:58 PM
I thought I saw a link that somebody posted, but I can't find it anywhere.

The closest I got is this:

“We’ve definitely got to get better, and that’s across the board,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “In free agency, if there’s a corner or a defensive lineman, if that helps us, we’ve got to look at those options.


“I don't know if there’s just one move. I think we’ve got to look at a variety of things. There are possibilities with some of our players (secondary) actually moving (to new positions). That’s something that we’ve talked about.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=teamreports-2011-nfl-hou&bcmt=7253832#mwpphu-comment-7253832

But it could be a lot of things:
Personally, I think Jackson and Quin can play nickel, CB, or safety.
Allen had played safety for the Dolphins before, so he can always be moved as well.

Thanks much 76. I'd like to see them follow through and do WHATEVER it takes. Be it rearranging players already here, FA, trade or draft.

Texan4Ever
02-03-2011, 02:19 PM
Thanks much 76. I'd like to see them follow through and do WHATEVER it takes. Be it rearranging players already here, FA, trade or draft.


Can someone rep 76 for his insights on this thread, I haven't be able to rep him. Thanks!

drs23
02-03-2011, 05:57 PM
Can someone rep 76 for his insights on this thread, I haven't be able to rep him. Thanks!

Done.

76Texan
02-04-2011, 04:10 PM
Thanks as usual, guys.
I know some of us here are just crazy about football quite the same!

I have a question:
What is it that make people like Peterson so much?
I see a good CB with huge potential, but I didn't see greatness on the field.
Every time I put one of his game on, the thought keep coming back "Why is it that people seems to be so enamored with this guy" and the other guy, the QB Blaine Gabbert.

I'd really like to hear different opinions about these two guys.

Texan4Ever
02-04-2011, 07:30 PM
Thanks as usual, guys.
I know some of us here are just crazy about football quite the same!

I have a question:
What is it that make people like Peterson so much?
I see a good CB with huge potential, but I didn't see greatness on the field.
Every time I put one of his game on, the thought keep coming back "Why is it that people seems to be so enamored with this guy" and the other guy, the QB Blaine Gabbert.

I'd really like to hear different opinions about these two guys.


This is just my personal opinion but, I think people are enamored with Peterson because of his freakish size (6'1" 220-Lbs), he is built like an undersized linebacker but has the speed and quickness of a cornerback.

Another aspect of his game is that he is able to return punts (basically help out on special teams) and play some offense as well (albet not as well as other two way players).

Not since the 1998 NFL Draft has there been a cornerback who has come close to mirroring Charles Woodson (he was drafted in 98' iirc) and its not until now that there is a player, at least based on his college career, can be compared to Woodson.

Just some of my opinions...

steelbtexan
02-04-2011, 08:22 PM
This is just my personal opinion but, I think people are enamored with Peterson because of his freakish size (6'1" 220-Lbs), he is built like an undersized linebacker but has the speed and quickness of a cornerback.

Another aspect of his game is that he is able to return punts (basically help out on special teams) and play some offense as well (albet not as well as other two way players).

Not since the 1998 NFL Draft has there been a cornerback who has come close to mirroring Charles Woodson (he was drafted in 98' iirc) and its not until now that there is a player, at least based on his college career, can be compared to Woodson.

Just some of my opinions...

^^^^
This and the he might run a low 4.3 or a high 4.2 at that size.

Peterson reminds me of a faster but not tougher Ronnie Lott. Whoever drafts Peterson will be getting a very good CB for 3 or 4 yrs and later in his career a real diference maker at S

As I stated in another thread, if Peterson falls to #5 the Texans should seriously consider trading up and taking him. Peterson and a FA CB would take the secondary from putrid to acceptable immediately. IMHO

Peterson is a rare talent. One of the most talented I've seen. Woodson or Mel Blount would be comparable in size,agility,speed and style of play to Peterson.

kiwitexansfan
02-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Thanks as usual, guys.
I know some of us here are just crazy about football quite the same!

I have a question:
What is it that make people like Peterson so much?
I see a good CB with huge potential, but I didn't see greatness on the field.
Every time I put one of his game on, the thought keep coming back "Why is it that people seems to be so enamored with this guy" and the other guy, the QB Blaine Gabbert.

I'd really like to hear different opinions about these two guys.

I think Peterson is the top dog purely from an athlete standpoint. People are in love with his elite measurables.

As for Gabbert, I think he'll be awful he couldn't even stand up to a average college pass rush for Nebraska. I hope the Titans draft him.

76Texan
02-05-2011, 01:53 AM
^^^^
This and the he might run a low 4.3 or a high 4.2 at that size.

Peterson reminds me of a faster but not tougher Ronnie Lott. Whoever drafts Peterson will be getting a very good CB for 3 or 4 yrs and later in his career a real diference maker at S

As I stated in another thread, if Peterson falls to #5 the Texans should seriously consider trading up and taking him. Peterson and a FA CB would take the secondary from putrid to acceptable immediately. IMHO

Peterson is a rare talent. One of the most talented I've seen. Woodson or Mel Blount would be comparable in size,agility,speed and style of play to Peterson.

I don't think Peterson run in the 4.2, probably not even 4.3.
Could be high 4.3, low 4.4, my guess.

Peterson might be faster than Lott, but the receivers nowadays are also faster than before.

Peterson is far from a shut down corner in college.
He allowed more catches in just two or three games than Jackson gave up the entire year.
He would have given up even more if not for safety help, QB missing wide-open receiver, pressure on the QB, and help from the ref.

Not that he's a bad CB, but what I saw is far from a shutdown CB that people regarded so highly.

Certainly his potential is huge.
If he's given safety help (like McCourty) so that he can continue to play physical underneath, he can be a monster.
But leaving him alone on an island, I don't think you will like the result.
(I can't predict the future, I can only see what I saw on the field from his past games.)

76Texan
02-05-2011, 01:55 AM
I think Peterson is the top dog purely from an athlete standpoint. People are in love with his elite measurables.

As for Gabbert, I think he'll be awful he couldn't even stand up to a average college pass rush for Nebraska. I hope the Titans draft him.Thanks for mentioning the Nebraska game!

I'm going to try to compare the Iowa game and the Nebraska game to show the two sides of Gabbert.

76Texan
02-05-2011, 01:59 AM
This is just my personal opinion but, I think people are enamored with Peterson because of his freakish size (6'1" 220-Lbs), he is built like an undersized linebacker but has the speed and quickness of a cornerback.

Another aspect of his game is that he is able to return punts (basically help out on special teams) and play some offense as well (albet not as well as other two way players).

Not since the 1998 NFL Draft has there been a cornerback who has come close to mirroring Charles Woodson (he was drafted in 98' iirc) and its not until now that there is a player, at least based on his college career, can be compared to Woodson.

Just some of my opinions...I can see all these points perfectly.
But maybe we shouldn't "fall in love" with a prospect!

How much does a team has to pay IF he can render all these services at the highest level?

What has he done to show that he can do all this at the pro level?

beerlover
02-05-2011, 03:45 PM
Texans would be wise to give CB a rest at least in terms of draft, let the dust settle, new coaching add a veteran db in FA & wait until next year. I like Cliff Harris Oregon better than anyone in this years CB crop.

he got robbed of one of the best INT's I've ever seen in BCS game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6zOwAZfVww

76Texan
02-05-2011, 04:25 PM
Texans would be wise to give CB a rest at least in terms of draft, let the dust settle, new coaching add a veteran db in FA & wait until next year. I like Cliff Harris Oregon better than anyone in this years CB crop.

he got robbed of one of the best INT's I've ever seen in BCS game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6zOwAZfVww

That was a smart play by Harris.
It's too bad the play was ruled an incompletion and there was not enough evidence to overturn the play.
It was extremely difficult to tell whether he had complete possession of the ball when his left foot (the only foot that was in bound) came down as the receiver got a little piece of his arm. (I think he had possession of the ball.)
At any rate, what I liked more than the fact that he almost got an INT is that he understood the pass patterns.
With him and the safety bracketing the outside receiver who ran a skinny post; it was extremely likely that the QB (Newton) would throw to the slot receiver who ran the wheel route to the outside.
That was a very good read and reaction by him.

Side note: Newton was quite accurate even with Casey Matthews bearing down upon him.

Texan4Ever
02-05-2011, 04:35 PM
Texans would be wise to give CB a rest at least in terms of draft, let the dust settle, new coaching add a veteran db in FA & wait until next year. I like Cliff Harris Oregon better than anyone in this years CB crop.

he got robbed of one of the best INT's I've ever seen in BCS game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6zOwAZfVww



MAJOR THREAD DERAILMENT!

Beerlover, have you seen the guys other YouTube videos based on your link you provided? If not, here is one that I thought was funny as hell:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEr6tHeuKnA&feature=related

76Texan
02-08-2011, 02:15 PM
After watching a few more LSU games, I'm scratching my head as to why Peterson can be so highly regarded.
I'm thinking about dropping him toward mid first round, possible late first round status.
He's lacking in quite a few areas, which I'll come back to when I have some time.

steelbtexan
02-08-2011, 02:34 PM
After watching a few more LSU games, I'm scratching my head as to why Peterson can be so highly regarded.
I'm thinking about dropping him toward mid first round, possible late first round status.
He's lacking in quite a few areas, which I'll come back to when I have some time.

I'm not saying Peterson is perfect. He's really good though and at worst Peterson would be the best FS the Texans have ever had. He would be a great centerfielder type FS. With enough size to punish WR's going across the middle.

Peterson at CB will need to be coached up. But the talent is there.

76Texan
02-13-2011, 08:17 PM
More Pitts games and I'm liking Dom Decicco more.
This guy would be a steal in the 7th.
I think he has a chance to be a starter; at the least he will be very good depth.
100% more impressive than Barber in college.

Play hard, play smart, my kind of guy!

Andrew Rich and Decicco are my two sleepers at safety.
(Perhaps Antwine Perez, too!)

Texan4Ever
02-13-2011, 11:02 PM
Hey 76Texan, have you had a chance to look at guys that were considered 1st rounders before the season started such as DeAndre McDaniel from Clemson (I think).

He seems to have completely fallen off the radar after being dubbed as a possible 1st round pick.

76Texan
02-14-2011, 12:59 AM
Hey 76Texan, have you had a chance to look at guys that were considered 1st rounders before the season started such as DeAndre McDaniel from Clemson (I think).

He seems to have completely fallen off the radar after being dubbed as a possible 1st round pick.

I've watched so many games I can't remember which is which, lol
I did watch a few of his games: MD and UNC for sure.
I think I've watched the Miami game also.
And one or two more incomplete games.
I did watch the Auburn game, even though I can't remember if I finished it or not.

As I've posted before, he's simply solid.
It seems like the opponent doesn't run plays his way as often as they do away from him. (I'm pretty sure that's the case.)

I haven't seen anything negative yet.
On the other hand, I haven't seen quite enough to merit absolute first round status.
But it's not any fault of his own.
So far, he's pretty much where he's supposed to be at on any given play.
I'd like to see some situations where he's challenged, where he's put on the spot.

I'm in the process of going back to watch more safety play.
Perhaps I'll pick up on the Auburn game.

...

As far as FS is concerned, the problem with Rahim Moore and Quinton Carter is that I've seen some mistakes that I don't think a first rounder should make.
Maybe I'm too harsh, but I want to have the confidence in the last line of defense.
As of now, I don't see any FS deserving first round status.

bah007
02-14-2011, 08:37 AM
I've watched so many games I can't remember which is which, lol
I did watch a few of his games: MD and UNC for sure.
I think I've watched the Miami game also.
And one or two more incomplete games.
I did watch the Auburn game, even though I can't remember if I finished it or not.

As I've posted before, he's simply solid.
It seems like the opponent doesn't run plays his way as often as they do away from him. (I'm pretty sure that's the case.)

I haven't seen anything negative yet.
On the other hand, I haven't seen quite enough to merit absolute first round status.
But it's not any fault of his own.
So far, he's pretty much where he's supposed to be at on any given play.
I'd like to see some situations where he's challenged, where he's put on the spot.

I'm in the process of going back to watch more safety play.
Perhaps I'll pick up on the Auburn game.

...

As far as FS is concerned, the problem with Rahim Moore and Quinton Carter is that I've seen some mistakes that I don't think a first rounder should make.
Maybe I'm too harsh, but I want to have the confidence in the last line of defense.
As of now, I don't see any FS deserving first round status.

I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

steelbtexan
02-14-2011, 10:16 AM
I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

That's about how I have them rated. I'm hoping Carter falls to the Texans in the 2nd rd. He would represent great value at that spot. Carter has great hips to turn and run. He would be a massive upgrade over Wilson. (No more Edwards type catches) Carter isn't a big hitter. But he is a pretty sure tackler. He does get caught out ofd position occasionally due to being overly aggressive. It's why he will be available in the 2nd rd. This can be corrected with good coaching.


With that said Rick and Garys track record says they wont spend a high pick on a S. Even though the way Phillips 3-4 works you need to have S that can cover. Which is why moving Quin to S should be an option.

Ndevine7
02-14-2011, 10:16 AM
I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

Neither one is a first round pick. Too many mistakes. Both are good talents and I think everyone here would be happy if we could land one of them in the second round. Would be a huge improvement to our defense

Ndevine7
02-14-2011, 10:19 AM
That's about how I have them rated. I'm hoping Carter falls to the Texans in the 2nd rd. He would represent great value at that spot. Carter has great hips to turn and run. He would be a massive upgrade over Wilson. (No more Edwards type catches) Carter isn't a big hitter. But he is a pretty sure tackler. He does get caught out ofd position occasionally due to being overly aggressive. It's why he will be available in the 2nd rd. This can be corrected with good coaching.


With that said Rick and Garys track record says they wont spend a high pick on a S. Even though the way Phillips 3-4 works you need to have S that can cover. Which is why moving Quin to S should be an option.

Its hard evaluating this years draft because of the change to a 3-4. We dont know how and where Wade is planning on playing this players. Whether cushing is inside or outside, does he have quin moving to fs, is mario going to be standing up at all? Hopefully Smithiak will let wade pick the players he wants and needs to make this defense decent

steelbtexan
02-14-2011, 10:40 AM
Jarrard Tarrant in the 3rd rd would be a great alternative to Carter or Moore in the 2nd. I've been watching him for the last couple of yrs. He's a good tackler and has the coverage skills that are better than any S currently on the Texans roster.

steelbtexan
02-14-2011, 10:45 AM
Its hard evaluating this years draft because of the change to a 3-4. We dont know how and where Wade is planning on playing this players. Whether cushing is inside or outside, does he have quin moving to fs, is mario going to be standing up at all? Hopefully Smithiak will let wade pick the players he wants and needs to make this defense decent

Agreed

After watching Phillips defense over the yrs there are 2 things it has to have.

1.A great pass rusher from the WLB spot
2. Atleast 1 but really 2 S that are versatile enough to play the run. But being able to cover is job 1. The Texans currently dont have a S on the roster that fits Phillips defense.

76Texan
02-15-2011, 11:22 AM
Its hard evaluating this years draft because of the change to a 3-4. We dont know how and where Wade is planning on playing this players. Whether cushing is inside or outside, does he have quin moving to fs, is mario going to be standing up at all? Hopefully Smithiak will let wade pick the players he wants and needs to make this defense decent

Kubiak said it will be up to Wade, and with a slight chuckle, he added something like: "I just hope that he takes into considerations some of my inputs."

76Texan
02-15-2011, 11:28 AM
I definitely agree with you here. Carter is the closest thing, imo. But I rate him at the top of the second round. And I rate Moore about where we pick in the second.

After watching three more Clemson games (Auburn, South Carolina, and USF - these were games Clemson gave up the most points - along with the Miami game that I've already watched), I think McDaniel had solidified himself as perhaps the #1 safety for me.
He can play both positions well in the 6 games I've reviewed so far.

I still want to watch a couple more games (BC & Fla St), but in these two games, the opponent scored only 16, so I don't think much will change !?!

I think McDaniel has a decent/good chance to be drafted in the first round.

76Texan
02-15-2011, 12:25 PM
The Auburn/Clemson (above all the games) shows me a lot of things about McDaniel.

1. His footbal smart/instinct/ability to read play/understanding multi-receiver route patterns and therefore deciphering the QB tendency to throw to a certain area. (IMHO, this is what we're looking for in a deep safety.)

2. Speed and range.
He looks to have between good to excellent speed for a safety.
The fluid hips allow him to turn and thus give him the range to chase the long ball.
When he came up in run support, the flexibility of the hips also helps him to turn back to pursue the ball carier.
He also shows a good first burst and a good second gear (after he made a change of direction.)

3. Ball skills, playing the ball at the high point (good vertical leap and reach).

4. Good tackling ability and solid technique even as he hit the opponent.
Good angles, good form, good position.

5. Physical against a big back or receiver.

Did I forget anything we should be looking for in either a SS or FS?

76Texan
02-15-2011, 02:17 PM
Jarrard Tarrant in the 3rd rd would be a great alternative to Carter or Moore in the 2nd. I've been watching him for the last couple of yrs. He's a good tackler and has the coverage skills that are better than any S currently on the Texans roster.

Steelb, Tarrant played only 8 games as a safety (?!?) is that correct?
If that's so, wouldn't it be better for him to stay for another year?
Maybe he has some special circumstance.
How did he look against Georgia?

bah007
02-15-2011, 03:37 PM
I think he could play either, but I like McDaniel as a SS. I have him as my #2/3 safety overall (he is right there with Moore but behind Carter) and my #1 SS.

He has a SS build. I think he has the speed and athleticism for FS. He can really tackle. I just see him more as a SS with coverage ability than a ballhawk FS.

Like I said, I think he could really play either. But if we're looking for a true FS I would rather have Carter.

TexansSeminole
02-15-2011, 08:27 PM
I think he could play either, but I like McDaniel as a SS. I have him as my #2/3 safety overall (he is right there with Moore but behind Carter) and my #1 SS.

He has a SS build. I think he has the speed and athleticism for FS. He can really tackle. I just see him more as a SS with coverage ability than a ballhawk FS.

Like I said, I think he could really play either. But if we're looking for a true FS I would rather have Carter.

I agree 100% with you on McDaniel. Very balanced SS that can really help us IMO. We should really look to get him with our second pick if we can.

steelbtexan
02-15-2011, 10:34 PM
Steelb, Tarrant played only 8 games as a safety (?!?) is that correct?
If that's so, wouldn't it be better for him to stay for another year?
Maybe he has some special circumstance.
How did he look against Georgia?

I remembered Tarrant from the 2009 season. He was very good at CB.

He switched over to FS in 2010 taking over for Burnett. Apparently it didn't go well. He does have great athletic ability. But appeared lost at times playing FS.

beerlover
02-15-2011, 11:24 PM
Texans need to draft the best proven ballhawk FS available instead of counting on the possibility they can convert a cb.

steelbtexan
02-15-2011, 11:41 PM
Texans need to draft the best proven ballhawk FS available instead of counting on the possibility they can convert a cb.

Yep

Carter or Moore in the 2nd would be the way I would go.

But history says Rick and Gary wont use a high pick on a S. Perhaps this would explain why the Texans secondary stinks yr after yr.

Wolf6151
02-16-2011, 03:32 AM
Texans need to draft the best proven ballhawk FS available instead of counting on the possibility they can convert a cb.

Agree completely. Moore and Carter are the 2 highest rated FS and both are rated as 2nd round picks. There's no reason we shouldn't get one of them in the 2nd. Of course Rick and Gary will most likely take the top rated TE instead. If this happens Rick and Gary should both be fired on the spot.

76Texan
02-16-2011, 10:06 AM
Moore's stock just took a nose dive for me.
Against WSU, he got beat badly on a double move inside the 10 and was toasted for a TD.
On the 2nd TD (also in the red zone), he took such poor position and angle that he couldn't get there in time to help the nickel back to break up the pass.
In the second half, Moore abandoned his responsibility in his 1/2 of the field (in cover 2) and chased the route to the other side (receivers running crossing routes from both sides). That left the receiver wide open for a very long gain.
There was another instance- but it slipped my mind now (where it looked like Moore didn't do the job a safety is supposed to.)

Then, in the game against Stanford, for some reason, Moore misjudged the throw and strayed too far from his deep post position. The RCB was beaten a few steps by the post route (either that, or he was supposed to trail the play and to look to protect underneath route).
There were receivers running deep routes on both sides and it did not look like the CBs were supposed to drop into 3-deep coverage. In this case, Moore shoulda stayed back as far as the deepest man, but he didn't. TD!

Here's where Moore worries me!

76Texan
02-16-2011, 10:07 AM
Did anyone watch the OU/Cincy game?
I can't quite see clearly the formation and the routes on the two plays where DJ Wood got free for two long gains.
It looks like Carter was the culprit both times, but the other safety (#3 Nelson) saved him both times.
He also bit on the exact same play (if the above was true) again in the same game (this time, he was surely the culprit.)
Plus he also committed one or two other errors (bigger than minor).
His stock is droppong for me.

If we're just grading these prospects based on what happened on the field, I might have to put Andrew Rich as the top safety of this class (oh boy!)

And here's where Carter worries me!

76Texan
02-16-2011, 10:21 AM
I watched more Clemson games to bring the total up to 9 (the only one I didn't watch was Wake Forest (a weakling).

McDaniel is a ball hawk alright!

And in all 9 games I saw fewer infractions than I saw from Carter or Moore in just one or two games.

His biggest "error" may not even be an error:

On the strong side, the QB rolled out.
They also pulled a guard to move the pocket.
The TE engaged the SAM.
Seeing this, McDaniel stayed to watch the QB.

A TE screen or a QB run were possible (with no defender to stop it).

In the meantime, the wide-out ran a skinny post.
The CB couldn't stay with him and had to grab him, taking a PI call to avoid a TD (the ball floated to give the CB the chance to even grab the WR).

McDaniel didn't commit until the QB released the ball, so you couldn't say that he bought the TE screen.
And remember, since the QB had rolled out, he can easily rumble up the side line for a big gain.

Perhaps you want your safety to drop way back to help the corner just to be sure to avoid the long bomb, but you will definitely give up a big run either by the QB or the TE on a screen.

Even if we call this a bad play by McDaniel, I've seen worse a few more times over from both Carter and Moore.

McDaniel played a lot of deep safety, including in cover one;
and he looked great to me.
Perhaps we are concerned about his speed at the next level.
If so, what do you think his 40 time should be to be rated as a frist rounder?

76Texan
02-16-2011, 10:34 AM
I think he could play either, but I like McDaniel as a SS. I have him as my #2/3 safety overall (he is right there with Moore but behind Carter) and my #1 SS.

He has a SS build. I think he has the speed and athleticism for FS. He can really tackle. I just see him more as a SS with coverage ability than a ballhawk FS.

Like I said, I think he could really play either. But if we're looking for a true FS I would rather have Carter.

What's the deal with Deunta Williams this year?
I see that you think he will have the most successful career out of this FS draft.

I haven't seen enough of him, but so far, he has yet to impress me.
Perhaps, after the 4-game suspension, I should give him some time to get reacquainted with live action?
(I've only watched some early games.)

steelbtexan
02-16-2011, 10:50 AM
I watched more Clemson games to bring the total up to 9 (the only one I didn't watch was Wake Forest (a weakling).

McDaniel is a ball hawk alright!

And in all 9 games I saw fewer infractions than I saw from Carter or Moore in just one or two games.

His biggest "error" may not even be an error:

On the strong side, the QB rolled out.
They also pulled a guard to move the pocket.
The TE engaged the SAM.
Seeing this, McDaniel stayed to watch the QB.

A TE screen or a QB run were possible (with no defender to stop it).

In the meantime, the wide-out ran a skinny post.
The CB couldn't stay with him and had to grab him, taking a PI call to avoid a TD (the ball floated to give the CB the chance to even grab the WR).

McDaniel didn't commit until the QB released the ball, so you couldn't say that he bought the TE screen.
And remember, since the QB had rolled out, he can easily rumble up the side line for a big gain.

Perhaps you want your safety to drop way back to help the corner just to be sure to avoid the long bomb, but you will definitely give up a big run either by the QB or the TE on a screen.

Even if we call this a bad play by McDaniel, I've seen worse a few more times over from both Carter and Moore.

McDaniel played a lot of deep safety, including in cover one;
and he looked great to me.
Perhaps we are concerned about his speed at the next level.
If so, what do you think his 40 time should be to be rated as a frist rounder?

mcDaniel is a good enough athlete. He just doesn't make as many plays as a guy with his ability should make. He has some off field issues and Rick and Gary wont use a high enough pick for him to be a Texan.

Carter while not perfect has the best hips of any S in this draft. He has great playmaking ability. The flaws that you point out are there and can be corrected with better coaching. The talent is there.

The S that I really want the Texans to take is Eugene Clifford. That guy is a player.

Do you think Andrew Rich has enough athletic ability to be a starting SS in the NFL? I have no doubts that Rich will be a ST demon.

If you're looking for the most technically sound S in this draft with athletic ability and will be a 10 yr starter. Tyler Sash would be who I would look at taking in the 3rd rd.

76Texan
02-16-2011, 11:02 AM
mcDaniel is a good enough athlete. He just doesn't make as many plays as a guy with his ability should make. He has some off field issues and Rick and Gary wont use a high enough pick for him to be a Texan.



With the "limited" amount of time he was back there, I thought he made plenty of plays:
- 2 Ints and 5 PBUs as a freshman playing part-time
- 1 Int, 4 PBUs, 3 FFs, 3 QBHs in his sophomore year when he played as a LB
- 8 Ints, 1 PBU, 1 FF, 2nd leader on team in tackles as a Jr.
- 4 Ints, 5 PBUs, led team in tackles as a Sr.

He was around the ball a lot.
The most important thing to me is that he's (99% of the time) where he's supposed to be on the field.

76Texan
02-16-2011, 11:17 AM
Carter while not perfect has the best hips of any S in this draft. He has great playmaking ability. The flaws that you point out are there and can be corrected with better coaching. The talent is there.

The S that I really want the Texans to take is Eugene Clifford. That guy is a player.

Do you think Andrew Rich has enough athletic ability to be a starting SS in the NFL? I have no doubts that Rich will be a ST demon.

If you're looking for the most technically sound S in this draft with athletic ability and will be a 10 yr starter. Tyler Sash would be who I would look at taking in the 3rd rd.

I'm going to watch more of Carter as well as the rest of the safeties.

I like both Sash and Rich; they are somewhat of the same mold.
I do think that Rich has enough of what it takes to become a starter.
He surprised me when he was able to stay with some very fast receivers (in the short area, of course.)
I think Rich is a little better than Sash.

steelbtexan
02-16-2011, 12:26 PM
I stand corrected,

McDaniel wasn't that impressive to me in the 2 games that I saw last yr. (Miami,South Carolina) Of course that was just the eye test. I didn't see any tape where I just focused on him. I mainly focused on Bowers and Jenkins.

There was alot of Talent on that Clemson defense (Branch,Bowers,Jenkins on the DL and Gilchrist and McDaniels in the secondary) They should've been much better than they were last yr. But they appeared undisciplined. This is what worries me about taking Clemson players.

bah007
02-16-2011, 12:29 PM
What's the deal with Deunta Williams this year?
I see that you think he will have the most successful career out of this FS draft.

I haven't seen enough of him, but so far, he has yet to impress me.
Perhaps, after the 4-game suspension, I should give him some time to get reacquainted with live action?
(I've only watched some early games.)

There was so much constant change in personnel this year for North Carolina's defense that I find it hard to be very critical of their top guys. A lot of guys who weren't supposed to play very much this year got pushed into action and got picked on.

There are guys who stood out. North Carolina has an incredible amount of talent on defense. The problem was that they weren't all on the field at the same time.

Williams is a four year starter, which is a big deal to me. He has good size for the position. He is an excellent athlete, definitely a true FS. He has instincts, ball skills, and coverage ability.

His production was down this year, but that is because he was asked to play a lot more deep safety. UNC played more man than they usually do and he was used more as the deepest player, the last line of defense. And UNC wasn't tested deep very often so he didn't get many opportunities.

His previous three years the production was there.

beerlover
02-16-2011, 12:39 PM
There was so much constant change in personnel this year for North Carolina's defense that I find it hard to be very critical of their top guys. A lot of guys who weren't supposed to play very much this year got pushed into action and got picked on.

There are guys who stood out. North Carolina has an incredible amount of talent on defense. The problem was that they weren't all on the field at the same time.

Williams is a four year starter, which is a big deal to me. He has good size for the position. He is an excellent athlete, definitely a true FS. He has instincts, ball skills, and coverage ability.

His production was down this year, but that is because he was asked to play a lot more deep safety. UNC played more man than they usually do and he was used more as the deepest player, the last line of defense. And UNC wasn't tested deep very often so he didn't get many opportunities.

His previous three years the production was there.

If your investing millions of your dollars in a guy it must be based on as much information as possible until you can feel good about it, so his value must come @ a discount.

76Texan
02-16-2011, 12:44 PM
I stand corrected,

McDaniel wasn't that impressive to me in the 2 games that I saw last yr. (Miami,South Carolina) Of course that was just the eye test. I didn't see any tape where I just focused on him. I mainly focused on Bowers and Jenkins.

There was alot of Talent on that Clemson defense (Branch,Bowers,Jenkins on the DL and Gilchrist and McDaniels in the secondary) They should've been much better than they were last yr. But they appeared undisciplined. This is what worries me about taking Clemson players.

Actually, I just started the Miami game from 09 (not quite finished with the 1st qtr) and McDaniel looked good. I will finish that game tonight. Not sure if I still have the Gamecoks game; if I do, I will watch it as well.

I understand how the D-line and LB plays can help the secondary.
But when you said that they didn't play as well as they should have, that ought to make the job harder for the safety, wouldn't it?

bah007
02-16-2011, 12:45 PM
If your investing millions of your dollars in a guy it must be based on as much information as possible until you can feel good about it, so his value must come @ a discount.

And it does. I do believe that he will be the best FS out of this draft. But I wouldn't be able to pull the trigger on him early because there are questions.

The lack of production this year doesn't look good. But when I watch the tape he looks like the same player as last year. What looks different is the players around him. The scheme changed and he was given less opportunities to make plays.

76Texan
02-16-2011, 12:50 PM
There was so much constant change in personnel this year for North Carolina's defense that I find it hard to be very critical of their top guys. A lot of guys who weren't supposed to play very much this year got pushed into action and got picked on.

There are guys who stood out. North Carolina has an incredible amount of talent on defense. The problem was that they weren't all on the field at the same time.

Williams is a four year starter, which is a big deal to me. He has good size for the position. He is an excellent athlete, definitely a true FS. He has instincts, ball skills, and coverage ability.

His production was down this year, but that is because he was asked to play a lot more deep safety. UNC played more man than they usually do and he was used more as the deepest player, the last line of defense. And UNC wasn't tested deep very often so he didn't get many opportunities.

His previous three years the production was there.

I do keep that in mind.
But as my previous post indicated, a safety should have plenty of opportunities to be tested when he's on a porous defense.
(Even if he plays squarely in the middle, and the QB simply throws down the side lines all the time.)

I take into considerations only what the safety is supposed to do on a given play.
The guy who is supposed to be a first rounder should also shine in the "extra mile" department, especially when you think he will have the best NFL career among those in this year safety class.

I will try to watch some games from last year as well, since I didn't watch much UNC.

76Texan
02-16-2011, 01:05 PM
By extra mile, I was referring to plays similar to the one Antwine Perez was engaged in; one in which the receiver involved is not even his responsibility.
He made the play because he can see the whole field, reading all the receivers.

Similar with what I saw in McDaniel in one play against Auburn (no, not the INT):

There were 2 receivers on his side.
The CB took one.
The nickel lined up on the slot, but then walked inside very early far away from the slot receiver, clearly showing to the QB that he's coming in on a blitz.
One of the receivers; therefore, became McDaniel's responsibility.

On the other side of the field, the wide-out beat the LCB down the side line (the CB slipped).
Newton took a cursy look toward McDaniel's side then come back to the right.
Clearly, he saw the CB slipping and threw a deep ball to the receiver Adams.

The commentator said that McDaniel was reading the QB's eyes.
(I don't buy that totally).
It could be that he saw the CB slipping.
It could be that he knew the other safety was playing a little closer to the LOS and that the QB is most likely to throw a deep ball to his favorite receiver in a one-on-one situation so McDaniel jumped as soon as he saw Newton looking that way.
He went a long way to break up that pass, and that's the extra mile I was impressed with.

Ndevine7
02-16-2011, 01:19 PM
Outside of carter and moore who does everyone think is the next best S. McDaniel, Sands, Sash, Williams, Johnson, Jarrett?

steelbtexan
02-16-2011, 02:13 PM
Outside of carter and moore who does everyone think is the next best S. McDaniel, Sands, Sash, Williams, Johnson, Jarrett?

You've perty much named them all. But here's 3 more.
1.Eugene Clifford
2.Will Hill
3.Amhad Black

There should be a good one available in Rd 3/4. If you're willing to take character risks 2 of the best S prospects should be available in rds 4/5. Will Hill and to a lesser degree Eugene Clifford. They are better than any S currently on the Texans roster.

Ndevine7
02-16-2011, 03:53 PM
You've perty much named them all. But here's 3 more.
1.Eugene Clifford
2.Will Hill
3.Amhad Black

There should be a good one available in Rd 3/4. If you're willing to take character risks 2 of the best S prospects should be available in rds 4/5. Will Hill and to a lesser degree Eugene Clifford. They are better than any S currently on the Texans roster.

I was wondering who you guys all thought was the next best. I'm torn between mcdaniel and sands but I could see sands being a liablity in coverage so I'm leaning toward mcdaniel

TexansSeminole
02-16-2011, 06:30 PM
With the "limited" amount of time he was back there, I thought he made plenty of plays:
- 2 Ints and 5 PBUs as a freshman playing part-time
- 1 Int, 4 PBUs, 3 FFs, 3 QBHs in his sophomore year when he played as a LB
- 8 Ints, 1 PBU, 1 FF, 2nd leader on team in tackles as a Jr.
- 4 Ints, 5 PBUs, led team in tackles as a Sr.

He was around the ball a lot.
The most important thing to me is that he's (99% of the time) where he's supposed to be on the field.

Oh, he makes a ton of plays. He made so many plays against Florida State over the years. I still don't understand why we didn't get him as a recruit considering he went to Godby, which is a block from FSU campus.

McDaniel makes big plays in big moments. That's the biggest thing about him. He's intercepted Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Matt Ryan and many others. After he picked off Ponder, he trucked him along the sidelines and Ponder hasn't been the same since. He was having a really, really good year averaging over 300 yards per game in 2009 before that hit put him out for the season. If McDaniel hadn't injured him, we may be talking about Ponder as the top QB based off production. He was on pace for 3,625 yards that year. Ponder had more yards in 2009 in 9 games than in 2010 in 11 games by 700 yards.

McDaniel has been around the block a time or two; he is experienced and he fits a need. I don't see any reason he wouldn't be worth our second round pick. I would even trade up to get him early in the 2nd round if I had to. He is everything we have been looking for in a SS.

rmartin65
02-16-2011, 06:46 PM
Oh, he makes a ton of plays. He made so many plays against Florida State over the years. I still don't understand why we didn't get him as a recruit considering he went to Godby, which is a block from FSU campus.

McDaniel makes big plays in big moments. That's the biggest thing about him. He's intercepted Cam Newton, Christian Ponder, Matt Ryan and many others. After he picked off Ponder, he trucked him along the sidelines and Ponder hasn't been the same since. He was having a really, really good year averaging over 300 yards per game in 2009 before that hit put him out for the season. If McDaniel hadn't injured him, we may be talking about Ponder as the top QB based off production. He was on pace for 3,625 yards that year. Ponder had more yards in 2009 in 9 games than in 2010 in 11 games by 700 yards.

McDaniel has been around the block a time or two; he is experienced and he fits a need. I don't see any reason he wouldn't be worth our second round pick. I would even trade up to get him early in the 2nd round if I had to. He is everything we have been looking for in a SS.

I crossed McDaniel off my list when I heard about his 08 arrest for assaulting a girlfriend. He (allegedly) choked and punched her, before pushing her down a flight of stairs. I dont have a problem taking gambles on guys with character issues, but this is too much.

TexansSeminole
02-16-2011, 06:54 PM
I crossed McDaniel off my list when I heard about his 08 arrest for assaulting a girlfriend. He (allegedly) choked and punched her, before pushing her down a flight of stairs. I dont have a problem taking gambles on guys with character issues, but this is too much.

Yeah, you would be surprised how many players get arrested for similar things. I know Ernie Sims got arrested for exactly the same thing in 2005 (http://www.sptimes.com/2005/07/07/Sports/FSU_s_Sims_suspended_.shtml). He actually slammed his girlfriend down on the ground and kept pushing her down. I knew a guy who lived in that apartment complex at the time and he said it was bad. Out in the parking lot, just pushing her around. This stuff happens more so than people know about.

Teams will clear all that up in the interviews, though. The arrest was 3 years ago, so teams may look at that as well and see how he's grown.

I obviously don't condone it and would like to see that he's a different person now, but I am not here to critique the personal lives of these guys. I am sure that alot of the players in the NFL have done some pretty bad stuff in their lives, but I am better off not knowing about it. I just want the Texans to have a good football team to put on the field on Sundays.

rmartin65
02-16-2011, 06:59 PM
Yeah, you would be surprised how many players get arrested for similar things. I know Ernie Sims got arrested for exactly the same thing in 2005.

Teams will clear all that up in the interviews. The arrest was 3 years ago, so teams may look at that as well and see how he's grown.

I have no doubt that he will get drafted in rounds 1 or 2, I just dont want the Texans to get him. Drug issues, arms charges, underage drinking, accepting benefits, maybe even the rare misconduct is something that would not prohibit me from drafting a player. Yes, it would knock them down a bit, but these are young men, and these mistakes are the sign of immaturity. However, assault against a woman or child is inexcusable, any man/boy over 13 knows that.

TexansSeminole
02-16-2011, 07:00 PM
However, assault against a woman or child is inexcusable, any man/boy over 13 knows that.

Agree 100%.

steelbtexan
02-16-2011, 07:26 PM
I crossed McDaniel off my list when I heard about his 08 arrest for assaulting a girlfriend. He (allegedly) choked and punched her, before pushing her down a flight of stairs. I dont have a problem taking gambles on guys with character issues, but this is too much.

Sign him up, LOL.

If he's the top rated player on the board talent wise Rick and Gary should take him. I wouldn't have a problem with McDaniel at #43.

He's more fluid than Sands. With that said, if Taylor is there at 43 I'm taking him.

76Texan
02-18-2011, 10:16 PM
I stand corrected,

McDaniel wasn't that impressive to me in the 2 games that I saw last yr. (Miami,South Carolina) Of course that was just the eye test. I didn't see any tape where I just focused on him. I mainly focused on Bowers and Jenkins.

There was alot of Talent on that Clemson defense (Branch,Bowers,Jenkins on the DL and Gilchrist and McDaniels in the secondary) They should've been much better than they were last yr. But they appeared undisciplined. This is what worries me about taking Clemson players.

You made me rewacth the Miami/Clemson game in 09, in which McDaniel probably would get defensive MVP; so then I realized you must be talking about the 2010 game, so I rewatched that one also, LOL!

76Texan
02-18-2011, 10:30 PM
In the 2010 Miami game, there were a couple of iffy plays for McD.
One was due to coverage call, and since we don't know what it was we can't say who was at faulft.
On both plays, none of the broadcasting team members can either!

It was a peculiar D call to say the least.
The Tigers rushed 4 and dropped 7 into coverage.

On the other side, they had 2 double teams against 2 receivers; while on McD's side, they left 3 defenders covering 3 receiving threats.

The LCB took on the wide out, so let's cross that pair out.
McD played close to the LOS and jumped on the receiving threat that went wide; the 5th DB (Lewis, a Soph) also followed the same offensive player.

That left Hankerson (most inside, almost like a TE) all alone on a straight go route for an easy TD.

McD lined up outside the DB, so I would think Hankerson's responsibilty belongs to the DB.

It was odd that one of the defenders from the other side didn't drop back in the middle to watch for such a scenario, but it happened.

steelbtexan
02-19-2011, 12:37 AM
I go by the eye test.

The way that you breakdown tape is very informative. I'm very appreciative. It helps me form a middle ground between what I see at the combine and from what I see on the field during the college season.

Thanks

Jay

76Texan
02-19-2011, 03:59 PM
I go by the eye test.

The way that you breakdown tape is very informative. I'm very appreciative. It helps me form a middle ground between what I see at the combine and from what I see on the field during the college season.

Thanks

Jay

I like to observe the little details. They show how "football smart" the players are. Sometimes one can have a lot of "talent" but never realize their "potential".

In basketball, for example, Kwame Brown was hand-picked by Jordan and became an instant bust ten years ago.
Phil Jackson couldn't do much with him either; so there's no guarantee that a player can be "coached up".
I heard he's reunited with Jordan now in Charlotte; must be that Jordan feels he still has some unfinished business in trying to prove that he can find and develop talent! :roast:

76Texan
02-19-2011, 04:26 PM
Anyway, before I come back to the second iffy moment for McDaniel, I thought I'd mention the 09 game first.
There was a play I think that have similiraties.

If anyone remember the Texans/Chargers game, I had broken down two similar plays (one by either team).
It involves a 2-receiver pattern with one running a deep route and the other running an underneath route, crossing from the other side of the field.
If the safety stays back to help defending the deep route, the QB would go short.
If the safety comes up on the short route, the QB would go long.

When the Chargers ran their play, Wilson jumped on the short crossing route (from the left side of the formation), leaving the wide-out (on the right side of the formation) free on the skinny post for a TD.

When we ran almost the same play, their safety (Weddle) stayed back to cut off AJ;
Schaub went to Jacoby underneath for a 17yd gain.

Well, let a college Junior safety shows them how it's done! :uchicken:

McDaniel backpedaled then stepped to his left to cut off the deep route (he took a quick glance at the other receiver then pretended to concentrate on the deep route).
All of a sudden, he stepped on the gas and bursted in front of the crossing route underneath, intercepted the ball and ran it back for a TD.

Wouldn't you like to have that guy on our team last year?

76Texan
02-21-2011, 09:50 AM
Back to the second "iffy" moment in the 2010 Miami game for McDaniel.
The situation was different, being 3rd and 5 for Miami from their own 35 (ie. a short route would give the Canes a first down and move the chain.)

It was a similar pattern, except both receivers were on the same side and ran two vertical routes, both threatening the safety.
The wide out ran an in-and-up route.
The slot receiver (Hankerson) ran a seam route (a straight go route that would split the nickel back and the safety.)

McDaniel lined up 10 yds off the LOS, backpedaled about three yards and sat waiting for the ball to break.
(Actually, there was a third receiver on the same side running a check route out to the flat, covered by the dime back.)

Bob Griese and another analyst concurred that the Tigers decided to play zero coverage (no deep safety help), meaning the CBs were to run with the receivers.
In that case, I imagine the safety's job was to sit at certain "break point" where the receivers are likely to make a change in direction.

With 3 receivers in his area, McDaniel was settling himself in a position where he may be of help to all three CBs on certain routes.
Most likely, his job was to defend the underneath routes that either deep threats can break into (any in or out route, stop route, comebacker, etc.) in order for the CBs to run with the receivers on all deep routes.

The one thing McDaniel probably did wrong was to take one step forward (in anticipation of a break by the receiver?).
The QB Harris (in all likelyhood had reviewed his own tape from last year game) was probably instructed to hold the ball and wait for the safety movement.
That one step up by McD was all the QB needed to see to take a shot downfield.

76Texan
02-21-2011, 09:56 AM
The red tapes that I've been showing of McDaniel were very little as compared to what I've seen from Quinton Carter, Rahim Moore, Duenta Williams.

On the other hand, the postives were many.
In fact, IMHO, McDaniel played more like a true safety, a ball hawk, an all-around football player than the others.

I ran accross these funny comments by Bruins fans when Moore was picked as first-team All American by TSN and third by the AP.

http://www.insidesocal.com/ucla/2010/12/rahim-moore-named-sporting-new.html

Sadly, they were basically true.
I think Moore should have gone back to school for another year.

The plays from Carter and Williams also had a lot of holes.
None of them I would trust to be the centerfielder on a defense, at least not in their first year in the NFL.

steelbtexan
02-21-2011, 10:51 AM
The red tapes that I've been showing of McDaniel were very little as compared to what I've seen from Quinton Carter, Rahim Moore, Duenta Williams.

On the other hand, the postives were many.
In fact, IMHO, McDaniel played more like a true safety, a ball hawk, an all-around football player than the others.

I ran accross these funny comments by Bruins fans when Moore was picked as first-team All American by TSN and third by the AP.

http://www.insidesocal.com/ucla/2010/12/rahim-moore-named-sporting-new.html

Sadly, they were basically true.
I think Moore should have gone back to school for another year.

The plays from Carter and Williams also had a lot of holes.
None of them I would trust to be the centerfielder on a defense, at least not in their first year in the NFL.

You've sold me on McDaniel. Too bad the Boy Scout troup over at Reliant wont take him. The issues with Carter and Moore are correctable. The way the UCLA fans talk about Moore, he may be avilable in Rd 3-4 and would be a bargain at that point. IMHO

TexansSeminole
02-21-2011, 10:44 PM
McDaniel played a lot of deep safety, including in cover one;
and he looked great to me.
Perhaps we are concerned about his speed at the next level.
If so, what do you think his 40 time should be to be rated as a frist rounder?

I think he needs to be in the low 4.5's atleast to make it into the first round. If he runs sub 4.5 he will go in the 1st round.

76Texan
02-22-2011, 12:29 AM
I think he needs to be in the low 4.5's atleast to make it into the first round. If he runs sub 4.5 he will go in the 1st round.

I really don't know where to place him, to be honest.

But let's look at some numbers:


2007:
#20 Aaron Ross (CB) 4.5

2008:
#20 Aqib Talib (CB) 4:47
#31 Kenny Phillips (S) 4:54


2009:

SI: "Jenkins, an Ohio State product, ran anywhere from a 4.55 to 4.59 on most watches in his first attempt at Lucas Oil Field in Indianapolis. He improved on his second 40, running a 4.52 or 4.53.

Coming into the combine, scouts were concerned about Jenkins' speed and felt he needed to run in the mid-4.4s to cement his status as the top cornerback. Some teams will now start to look at Jenkins as more of a safety since they feel he lacks top-end cornerback speed."

Jenkins was still the first CB taken at #14

....

2010:

#5 Eric Berry (FS) 4:47

#7 Joe Haden (CB) 4:57

#20 Jackson and #27 McCourty both clocked at 4:48

...
I don't think speed will be all that big a factor.
His coach said he ran 4.5 (but played like he ran a sub 4.4, he added.)

I'm thinking somewhere between 4.5-4.55
For a FS, I would think 4:55 is a very good time.
For a SS, 4:62 is still a very good time.

76Texan
02-22-2011, 12:59 AM
I don't follow teams need.
Can somebody recap which team need a FS, SS, CB and what draft slot they have?
Thanks!

76Texan
02-22-2011, 10:01 AM
You've sold me on McDaniel. Too bad the Boy Scout troup over at Reliant wont take him. The issues with Carter and Moore are correctable. The way the UCLA fans talk about Moore, he may be avilable in Rd 3-4 and would be a bargain at that point. IMHO

Actually, last year the Texans took some of the guys on my wish list, albeit at a higher slot than I had a couple of them at.

I had Jackson & McCourty neck to neck (late first, early second).
OK, so if I was a bit harsh, late first would have been better than 20.

I was fine with Tate in the 2nd at our slot.

I had Mitchell in the fourth (considering that he had not been playing defense all that long).

I wanted Morgan Burnett in the third, but the Packers took them at #71
(He started right away, but was injured in the 4th game.)

Wish they could have traded down a bit in the first or trade up in the third (and still draft Mitchell.)

Another guy I would have been fine with was Nate Allen at safety (if his injury checked out - and it did), but he was drafted at #37 by the Eagles.

powda
02-22-2011, 11:54 AM
Every year since the inception of the Texans i am always most familiar with the safeties of the draft class...because we always need one but never select one.

You would think in a division with Peyton Manning they might pay some attention to the position...

76Texan
02-26-2011, 04:53 PM
Every year since the inception of the Texans i am always most familiar with the safeties of the draft class...because we always need one but never select one.

You would think in a division with Peyton Manning they might pay some attention to the position...

You would think!

But it's hard to blame them for trying.
They did spend a lot of money and draft picks on the defensive side.
And when Richard Smith was here, the Texans played mostly a tampa 2 scheme, so a safety like Wilson (many injuries ago) was at least adequate.
Frank Bush, on the other hand, was trying to do too much.

76Texan
02-26-2011, 04:56 PM
You've sold me on McDaniel. Too bad the Boy Scout troup over at Reliant wont take him. The issues with Carter and Moore are correctable. The way the UCLA fans talk about Moore, he may be avilable in Rd 3-4 and would be a bargain at that point. IMHO

Ughh!
I watched some more of his games and the same stuffs appeared time and again.

The Oregon game was unbearable. He looked like a freshman out there.
I was thinking... ouch... undraftable.

I'm going try to watch the games from 09 to see how he got all those INTs.
(I actually did watch a few already, but let me hold off on the results.)

76Texan
02-26-2011, 05:21 PM
I'm still perplexed with the accolades that Prince A. have gotten, so I spent more time watching him.

2010:
Kansas, Iowa St, Mizzou, Wash, Okl, Okl St, UT, KS, Ks St, A&M, Colo, W. Kent, Idaho (the only game I didn't have is S. Dakota St.)

I also went back to all the 09 games in which he built up the "productions" (INTs, PBups):
Okl, UT, Colo, KS, Mizzou, Baylor

And I'm sorry to say that I don't see him as a first rounder.
To be honest, I don't know if I would want him in the second round either.

Besides the INT in the Fla Atlantic game (which I don't have), the other four INTs were gimme-type.

Maybe except for one; on that play, the commentator had this to say:
- QB staring down his receiver the whole time.
- Ball was out (thrown) late
- Receiver did not come back toward the ball.

On 2 of the other 3 INTs, he was actually beaten by 2-3 steps but the QB threw the ball right to him instead to the receivers.

The third one was late in a game in which the opponent was behind and it was like 4th and 20, and Prince played like a safety back deep and the QB threw the ball to him as if he was the receiver.

Sorry, kiwi and other Cornhuskers fans!

76Texan
02-26-2011, 05:25 PM
Prince was a cover 2 corner who stretched the college chuck rule to the max.

Having the safeties backing him up allowed him to play aggressively in the underneath zone (and the chuck rule also helps a lot.)

But leave him on an island and he would be burned time and time again.

76Texan
02-26-2011, 05:50 PM
On the other hand, the more tapes that I watched from Jimmy Smith and Andrew Rich, the more I like them.
I also went back to the 09 games like W. Virg, Okla, Mizzou , KS for Smith
and TCU, Fla St, Utah for Rich.
These were games against good passing teams/skill players at the time.
I also watched some games where their teams got manhandled (but they held up - Smith and Rich.)

I defnitely think Smith deserves first round status.
He've got the best tapes of all the CBs in this draft class - and the measurables.

Rich, I really don't know where to put him because he's so so under the radar that putting him ahead of Rahim Moore and Quinton Carter seems so preposterous.

But he really is a player that I want to see in a Texan uni.
The guy plays hard and smart and is always around the ball.
He hardly ever misses a tackle (and it's not like the play comes directly to him, he had to go after it, many times from all the way back in the secondary.)

Tyler Sash would be another good choice for me in the mid-rounds.

Wolf6151
02-27-2011, 06:13 AM
76Texan, what's your opinion of Brandon Harris-CB from Miami?

Lucky
02-27-2011, 11:21 AM
But leave him on an island and he would be burned time and time again.
Most of the college routes are underneath, so it wouldn't surprise me that Amukamara was coached to be hyper-aggressive on those routes. That doesn't mean he can't be coached to turn and run with WRs. I think he has the speed and ability.

Amukamara reminds me of a bigger pre-injury Dunta Robinson. Very physical corner who can challege NFL WRs at the LOS. I think the Texans have lacked that. I do acknowledge that Amukamara has been burned deep. But you have to look at the circumstances, where he hasn't been afforded safety help and asked to challenge the slants and outs. I don't think Amukamara has to be pigeon holed as a cover 2 CB.

kiwitexansfan
02-27-2011, 12:04 PM
I really want to see what Prince runs.

I did show a vulnerability deep against good WRs but I am not sure if that is a speed or coaching issue.

76Texan
02-28-2011, 06:34 AM
Most of the college routes are underneath, so it wouldn't surprise me that Amukamara was coached to be hyper-aggressive on those routes. That doesn't mean he can't be coached to turn and run with WRs. I think he has the speed and ability.

Amukamara reminds me of a bigger pre-injury Dunta Robinson. Very physical corner who can challege NFL WRs at the LOS. I think the Texans have lacked that. I do acknowledge that Amukamara has been burned deep. But you have to look at the circumstances, where he hasn't been afforded safety help and asked to challenge the slants and outs. I don't think Amukamara has to be pigeon holed as a cover 2 CB.

I was not trying to project a player.
(In one of my earlier posts in this thread, I've stated that Prince A. the final product in the NFL may not be the same player that we saw on the field in college.)

I was simply recounting what I saw.
That he played exclusively as a cover 2 corner.
It could be man under or zone under (I've also mentioned this before.)
In these coverages, the CB does have to run with the receiver in certain pattern; when 2 or more receivers on his side were running deep routes for example.
These would be the time when Prince had a lot of problem with.

Now, even as I do not try to project him, I did mention that it seems he's high out of his backpedal often, and that this could be the cause.
(I haven't read of any scout mentioning this.)
I am quite impressed with myself (lol) as I found this on nfl.com today

http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/02/27/peterson-amukamara-prefer-to-stay-at-corner/

“The thing I’ve been working on is my technique,” Amukamara said. “I feel like I’m too high on my backpedal, so I’ve been working a lot on it.”

The only way I can see him in the first round is for him to have an excellent combine and some coaches think they can work with him to really improve his game (by making use the shuffle technique, for example, lol.)

76Texan
02-28-2011, 07:01 AM
76Texan, what's your opinion of Brandon Harris-CB from Miami?

I had watched 9 Miami games this year and about the same number last year (while scouting Sharpton).

I like him as a prospect. He's is a guy that can be worked with.
The Canes played a lot of man coverage and Harris showed well.
(He does have his share of bad tapes; however, considering the number of times that he's on an island I concluded that he has the second best tapes after Jimmy Smith.)

Harris is smooth in his backpedal and fluid in his turn.
And he can run with the receiver.
When he changed direction in pusruit, he can get back in gear quickly.
Good short burst, long speed and closing speed.
Played adequately-to-quite-well against big and/or tall receivers.
(not sure how good these guys are though.)
Good in help defense (on other offensive threat that was not his main responsibility), displaying awareness and vision of the whole field.

The one thing he needs to work on is tackling.
He's not bad in this department but he can work much on it.

High second round for sure; he could be a first rounder with a good showing at the combine and/or team needs.
His height could hurt him, not just in the draft, but against good NFL receivers.

I would take Smith over Harris.

Texan4Ever
03-05-2011, 02:20 PM
Would having a 6'5" 220-Lbs safety be a bad thing for our defense? Just asking because WVU Robert Sands is a safety who has some good highlight reels and played exceptionally well in the 3-3-5 scheme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0o1xMWqCow

76Texan
04-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Would having a 6'5" 220-Lbs safety be a bad thing for our defense? Just asking because WVU Robert Sands is a safety who has some good highlight reels and played exceptionally well in the 3-3-5 scheme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0o1xMWqCow

Sands put up some solid numbers at the combine and his pro day.
He's among many safeties in this deep draft that are possibilites for the Texans.

Andrew Rich also put up some really good numbers at his pro day for the position, especially a guy his size:
4.65 - 40; same as Jarrett,
34" vertical; better than Sash, Hill
9"8 broad; better than Moore
4.19 shuttle; better than Black, Sash, same as Hill
6.92 cone; better than Carter, Moore, even Amukamara

His numbers are even better than quite a few CBs in different categories.

76Texan
04-02-2011, 05:28 PM
Steelb, did you watch Lefeged against Cincy and W. Virginia?
I don't understand why he played so unlike what he tested out at the combine and on his pro day.

I saw 6 or 7 times that he stepped up on a ball carrier (whether a receiver or a RB) and simply got left in the dirt.

Does he lack instinct?
His reaction isn't gpod?
Supposedly, he should have decent hips, but what happened here???

And being the last guy on the defense in those instances, you can guess what the results were.