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TheCD
12-14-2010, 12:03 PM
Just wanted to pass along some friendly rumor-mongering after another heartbreaker last night. Per PFT:

Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reiterated on Tuesday that the Lone Star State has become the most likely destination for Cowher.

“I told you awhile back that Texas is his most likely landing spot — Houston, Texas,” Bouchette writes. “And last night’s game made him even more inviting for those Texans.”http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/14/cowher-could-end-up-in-texas-after-all/

HardKnockTexan
12-14-2010, 12:06 PM
Just wanted to pass along some friendly rumor-mongering after another heartbreaker last night. Per PFT:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/14/cowher-could-end-up-in-texas-after-all/ (Link)

Don't be toying with my emotions.

ThaShark316
12-14-2010, 12:07 PM
Only 3 potential coaches i'd get rid of Kubiak for:

Cowher, Gruden and Rob Ryan.

TheCD
12-14-2010, 12:08 PM
Don't be toying with my emotions.

It is PFT, after all, so don't get too worked up.


I'm not an expert on the reporters in Pittsburgh, but I would say that they are at the very least moderately credible, in this regard.

Thorn
12-14-2010, 12:12 PM
I'd love to see Cowher come here, but I'll believe it when I see it. The Texans and Oilers histories have been nothing but heartbreak and misery and I'm not expecting that to change anytime soon.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 12:13 PM
This one is better:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/14/the-2010-texans-season-summarized-in-one-insane-stat/

There are no easy solutions in Houston for owner Bob McNair. (Although Florio will float one idea shortly.)



12 pack of beer says that McNair can "trade" Kubiak to Denver. McNair doesnt look like an ass firing the hometown boy and Denver takes Kubiaks contract and stays employed. McNair then hires Cowher which just makes the city of Houston adore him and he sells more merchandise and tickets.

Hardcore Texan
12-14-2010, 12:15 PM
I just popped a semi

TheCD
12-14-2010, 12:19 PM
This one is better:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/14/the-2010-texans-season-summarized-in-one-insane-stat/



12 pack of beer says that McNair can "trade" Kubiak to Denver. McNair doesnt look like an ass firing the hometown boy and Denver takes Kubiaks contract and stays employed. McNair then hires Cowher which just makes the city of Houston adore him and he sells more merchandise and tickets.


That would be awesome, but I just casn't see McNair being that aggressive. He's the kind of guy that shakes your hand and says "I'm going to let you go so you can do what makes you happy."

ChampionTexan
12-14-2010, 12:20 PM
My prediction is that early on Cowher will consistently indicate that another team is likely his first choice over the Texans by a fairly wide margin - primarily because the Texans recruiting effort is uninspired. Over the last half of the selection process, the Texans PR/Marketing machine led by Bob and Cal McNair crank their efforts up to full blast. This results in the Texans gradually increasing their attractiveness to Cowher until he indicates it's a dead heat between the Texans and Team X. Bob and Cal rejoice that their efforts have gotten them back into the competition, and revert to the original recruiting efforts. Shortly after that, it will be announced that Cowher is the new GM/VP of Football Operations, and Head Coach for Team X.

gary
12-14-2010, 12:22 PM
The only thing holding the team back from having any one of those guys is Bob's pocket book.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 12:23 PM
That would be awesome, but I just casn't see McNair being that aggressive. He's the kind of guy that shakes your hand and says "I'm going to let you go so you can do what makes you happy."

Dont need to be that aggressive. It is an easy out for both McNair and Kubiak. If he has had even the remotest idea about replacing Kubiak its a win/win for everyone involved.

Well except for the liquor stores and heart surgeons in the Houston area.

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure that this is any more than speculation on the part of the Pittsburgh writer.

Even so, this is a painfully obvious deduction. The best out of work coach would probably want to go to the team that already has the players in place and would require the least amount of work.

ChampionTexan
12-14-2010, 12:28 PM
Dont need to be that aggressive. It is an easy out for both McNair and Kubiak. If he has had even the remotest idea about replacing Kubiak its a win/win for everyone involved.

Well except for the liquor stores and heart surgeons in the Houston area.

The NFL changed the rules after the Tampa/Oakland trade of Gruden. You can no longer trade a coaches contract for draft-picks.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 12:29 PM
The NFL changed the rules after the Tampa/Oakland trade of Gruden. You can no longer trade a coaches contract for draft-picks.

Couple 12 packs of Coors Light then?

HOU-TEX
12-14-2010, 12:30 PM
I just popped a semi

Me too.....until I got to your post of poppin one as well.

Seriously, I just don't see this happening. It's just too good to be true. Cowher would still need to bring in a DC with a ground-draggin sack to give us a defense worth a darn

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 12:31 PM
The NFL changed the rules after the Tampa/Oakland trade of Gruden. You can no longer trade a coaches contract for draft-picks.

I'm pretty sure the Chiefs and the Jets did the same thing with Herm Edwards since the Gruden trade.

Jackie Chiles
12-14-2010, 12:34 PM
My prediction is that early on Cowher will consistently indicate that another team is likely his first choice over the Texans by a fairly wide margin - primarily because the Texans recruiting effort is uninspired. Over the last half of the selection process, the Texans PR/Marketing machine led by Bob and Cal McNair crank their efforts up to full blast. This results in the Texans gradually increasing their attractiveness to Cowher until he indicates it's a dead heat between the Texans and Team X. Bob and Cal rejoice that their efforts have gotten them back into the competition, and revert to the original recruiting efforts. Shortly after that, it will be announced that Cowher is the new GM/VP of Football Operations, and Head Coach for Team X.

http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/meh.ro5241.jpg

Hervoyel
12-14-2010, 12:38 PM
I think the game is already afoot. Cowher has stated recently that he will discuss any possible positions after the season is over. He's interested in coaching again. That statement puts a warm glow in Bob McNair's heart. It means that nobody like Jerry Jones will come along and snap up Cowher before the end of the season. It also tells McNair that Cowher is a stand up guy who isn't going to hover over currently struggling coaches jobs like a buzzard waiting for an opportunity (all while allowing him to do just that). He basically told every owner out there who's looking for a coach that he'll wait until the season is over to consider offers which puts him in their minds eye without making them move on him right now. Everybody gets to be classy about things that way. Bob likes that.

He can let the last three weeks play out with Gary without hearing his teams fans ***** that somebody else will hire Cowher while he sits on his hands.

I think next year Bill Cowher will be the head coach of the Houston Texans if Bob McNair wants him. I've thought that for some time now. He "fits" both our needs and our owners personality. McNair has a franchise-crush on the Steelers and this plays right into it. Cowher wants to win right away and not come in and rebuild a train wreck and I think he believes he can do that here.

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 12:38 PM
We should start a petition of some sort directed at Bob, saying that we we all commit to buying a minimum of $100 of gear from the Texans' store when Cowher is named our HC. Until then we will hold off from buying any more stuff.

cdollaz
12-14-2010, 12:40 PM
Couple 12 packs of Coors Light then?

I'd be willing to throw Jacoby in as well.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 12:41 PM
We should start a blackmail agenda of some sort directed at Bob, saying that we we all commit to buying a minimum of $100 of gear from the Texans' store when Cowher is named our HC. Until then we will hold off from buying any more stuff.

I corrected it for ya. Lets not mince words.:evil:

ChampionTexan
12-14-2010, 12:42 PM
I'm pretty sure the Chiefs and the Jets did the same thing with Herm Edwards since the Gruden trade.

This was actually in one of TC's chronicle blogs earlier this month...

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/01/17/Bucs/NFL_nixes_draft_picks.shtml

It does look like the Jets got a pick for Edwards, so maybe it was changed again (to the extent it was ever correct).

GP
12-14-2010, 12:43 PM
My prediction is that early on Cowher will consistently indicate that another team is likely his first choice over the Texans by a fairly wide margin - primarily because the Texans recruiting effort is uninspired. Over the last half of the selection process, the Texans PR/Marketing machine led by Bob and Cal McNair crank their efforts up to full blast. This results in the Texans gradually increasing their attractiveness to Cowher until he indicates it's a dead heat between the Texans and Team X. Bob and Cal rejoice that their efforts have gotten them back into the competition, and revert to the original recruiting efforts. Shortly after that, it will be announced that Cowher is the new GM/VP of Football Operations, and Head Coach for Team X.

Yeah, pretty much what's gonna' end up happening.

Incompetence at its best and brightest. Straight from the top.

CretorFrigg
12-14-2010, 12:45 PM
Yeah, pretty much what's gonna' end up happening.

Incompetence at its best and brightest. Straight from the top.

I just wanted to digress and mention that I love your sig.

Until Bob McNair makes some big boy decisions, he'll always be stuck playing jump-rope with the 3rd grade girls.

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 12:48 PM
I corrected it for ya. Lets not mince words.:evil:

Blackmail sounds good to me. Whatever it takes to get this thing done.

MFG16
12-14-2010, 01:02 PM
I think the game is already afoot. Cowher has stated recently that he will discuss any possible positions after the season is over. He's interested in coaching again. That statement puts a warm glow in Bob McNair's heart. It means that nobody like Jerry Jones will come along and snap up Cowher before the end of the season. It also tells McNair that Cowher is a stand up guy who isn't going to hover over currently struggling coaches jobs like a buzzard waiting for an opportunity (all while allowing him to do just that). He basically told every owner out there who's looking for a coach that he'll wait until the season is over to consider offers which puts him in their minds eye without making them move on him right now. Everybody gets to be classy about things that way. Bob likes that.

He can let the last three weeks play out with Gary without hearing his teams fans ***** that somebody else will hire Cowher while he sits on his hands.

I think next year Bill Cowher will be the head coach of the Houston Texans if Bob McNair wants him. I've thought that for some time now. He "fits" both our needs and our owners personality. McNair has a franchise-crush on the Steelers and this plays right into it. Cowher wants to win right away and not come in and rebuild a train wreck and I think he believes he can do that here.

I hope your comments become reality, but the bolded really says it all. Its all on what McNair thinks and wants. Please McNair see the light and realize a top ten coach wants to coach here and realize that coach is a stand up guy. its the total package for everyone involved, everyone!

Texan_Bill
12-14-2010, 01:06 PM
Jerry Jones hires Bill Cowher at $22 million/ year!!!


*punches self in the junk*

houstonspartan
12-14-2010, 01:08 PM
I said at the end of last year that Bill Cowher wanted to come here, and I'm saying it again.

I don't think we'd have to be all that aggressive. All it would take is an offer, and Cowher would have his realtor start scouring houses in Houston.

The Cush
12-14-2010, 01:13 PM
Here's the first thing he's going to say if he comes here....

"Why the F#$* are there so many G.D. tight ends?!"

BullsOnParade
12-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Here's the first thing he's going to say if he comes here....

"Why the F#$* are there so many G.D. tight ends?!"

:goodpost:

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2010, 01:16 PM
I think the game is already afoot. Cowher has stated recently that he will discuss any possible positions after the season is over. He's interested in coaching again. That statement puts a warm glow in Bob McNair's heart. It means that nobody like Jerry Jones will come along and snap up Cowher before the end of the season. It also tells McNair that Cowher is a stand up guy who isn't going to hover over currently struggling coaches jobs like a buzzard waiting for an opportunity (all while allowing him to do just that). He basically told every owner out there who's looking for a coach that he'll wait until the season is over to consider offers which puts him in their minds eye without making them move on him right now. Everybody gets to be classy about things that way. Bob likes that.

He can let the last three weeks play out with Gary without hearing his teams fans ***** that somebody else will hire Cowher while he sits on his hands.

I think next year Bill Cowher will be the head coach of the Houston Texans if Bob McNair wants him. I've thought that for some time now. He "fits" both our needs and our owners personality. McNair has a franchise-crush on the Steelers and this plays right into it. Cowher wants to win right away and not come in and rebuild a train wreck and I think he believes he can do that here.

I think Ol' Bill thinks the Texans are a talented group with a lot of pieces already here . They have a QB , LT , RB , FB , WR , TE , LBs , 2 DL , and some young players to boot . They would need a CB , FS , maybe a change in the inner OL , a NG .

The biggest thing he would bring is accountability . If the Texans had some they would be 9-4 . The thing with Kubiak is he should have played like the Colts and the 90's Bills . Fast paced no huddle , their damn good like that . On defense it's amazing what happens when they attack .

Honoring Earl 34
12-14-2010, 01:19 PM
Here's the first thing he's going to say if he comes here....

"Why the F#$* are there so many G.D. tight ends?!"

That's #2 . The first is why in the hell are there so many players from Colorado State . I can understand Miami of the early 2000's but CS .

ChampionTexan
12-14-2010, 01:24 PM
Jerry Jones hires Bill Cowher at $22 million/ year!!!


*punches self in the junk*

I'm thinking not.

There have been two times when Jerry signed a high profile HC. Jimmy Johnson was hired as his first HC back in the days when Jerry had no delusions about his ability to be a GM/Football Operations guy. The Tuna was hired on the heels of of three 5-11 seasons in a row under Dave Campo, and he stepped into a situation that was far bleaker looking than they have now.

Unless they crater from here on out, I think there's a very good chance that Jason Garrett gets the job. This allows Jerry the opportunity to "turn around" the team without having to bring in anybody else to take the credit - particularly someone who has their own personal track record of success. That's why I think that Jerry brought Wade in after Parcells left - he was not somebody who would steal any of the credit away from JJ if the team succeeded. On the contrary - he had the type of personality/public perception to allow Jerry to say "See, even after Parcells left, we've continued to succeed, so it must be all about me".


The fact that he brought Parcells in back then indicates if the circumstances demand it, he is willing to bring someone in who he will be forced to share the credit with, but I think those circumstances would have to be viewed as pretty dire, and I don't think Jerry's looking at things as dire right now - as long as Garrett continues to win more than he loses, and has the team looking respectable in the process.

Ultimately, we shall see what goes down.

El Tejano
12-14-2010, 01:25 PM
My prediction is that early on Cowher will consistently indicate that another team is likely his first choice over the Texans by a fairly wide margin - primarily because the Texans recruiting effort is uninspired. Over the last half of the selection process, the Texans PR/Marketing machine led by Bob and Cal McNair crank their efforts up to full blast. This results in the Texans gradually increasing their attractiveness to Cowher until he indicates it's a dead heat between the Texans and Team X. Bob and Cal rejoice that their efforts have gotten them back into the competition, and revert to the original recruiting efforts. Shortly after that, it will be announced that Cowher is the new GM/VP of Football Operations, and Head Coach for Team X.

And Kareem Jackson will fall down.

Hookem Horns
12-14-2010, 01:29 PM
Jerry Jones hires Bill Cowher at $22 million/ year!!!


*punches self in the junk*

Rumored Cowboys head coaching candidate Bill Cowher not on Jerry Jones' shortlist

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/rumored-cowboys-head-coaching.html

bckey
12-14-2010, 01:43 PM
I just popped a semi

I just popped a fully:doot:

Ranger Tom
12-14-2010, 01:47 PM
Rumored Cowboys head coaching candidate Bill Cowher not on Jerry Jones' shortlist

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/rumored-cowboys-head-coaching.html

Cowher has both a spine and a brain. Why would he work for Jerry Jones?

Norg
12-14-2010, 01:47 PM
I wish we could fire Kubes right now and get COwer right NOW

gtexan02
12-14-2010, 01:47 PM
I just popped a fully:doot:

The thought of Bill Cowher inspiring any "popping" is :mariopalm:

hradhak
12-14-2010, 01:59 PM
What is the basis for these rumors? Has Cowher actually said he wants to come to Houston or are others speculating this kinda stuff? I agree that it would be a good fit for him since we have many pieces in place we just need some coaching. Our offense would be among the best he'd coach and he could focus the his Chin Powers on the defense.

I'm just skeptical that anyone would want to come to Houston. After all, why would you wanna tarnish your legacy by being associated with a Houston sports team.

GuerillaBlack
12-14-2010, 02:01 PM
Steve Young said it best last night after the game: "It's like this team doesn't play with urgency, unless they are desperate and are down by 21 points. If you can get this Texans team to play like they are down by 14 or 21 points at the beginning of each game, they would be a scary team to beat". I think Cowher can get this team to come out and play like that. Come on down to Houston, Bill Cowher. We want you here.

GP
12-14-2010, 02:02 PM
Rumored Cowboys head coaching candidate Bill Cowher not on Jerry Jones' shortlist

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/12/rumored-cowboys-head-coaching.html

And the Giants are not going to fire Coughlin. That takes two teams out of the running for Cowher.

In addition, Houston has something that will automatically increase the value of whatever dollar amount Cowher might earn in his contract here: NO STATE INCOME TAX.

Never underestimate the power of that little "bonus."

If we nabbed Cowher, I might have to fly to Houston and visit Reliant offices and personally say "Thank you" to the highest ranking official I would be allowed to speak with.

GP
12-14-2010, 02:09 PM
I found a photo of a Cowher Care Bear. Pretty awesome, IMO:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3RqqSp4qGsM/SxTglwO8qxI/AAAAAAAAAIc/rPMmyYcUltM/s1600/GinnyspField_01.jpg

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 02:10 PM
Bill Cowher is NOT coming to Houston, Texas, but yall keep getting your hopes up...

DoCRoN
12-14-2010, 02:11 PM
I found a photo of a Cowher Care Bear. Pretty awesome, IMO:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3RqqSp4qGsM/SxTglwO8qxI/AAAAAAAAAIc/rPMmyYcUltM/s1600/GinnyspField_01.jpg

I'll have to agree with a reply I saw in another thread awhile back --- GP, you definitely come up with some weird-ass posts. But I like them. :evil:

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 02:12 PM
Bill Cowher is NOT coming to Houston, Texas, but yall keep getting your hopes up...

Reason?

Pantherstang84
12-14-2010, 02:19 PM
Reason?

Because BN4L says so.

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 02:30 PM
Bill Cowher is NOT coming to Houston, Texas, but yall keep getting your hopes up...

Reason?

Because BN4L says so.

Add me to the list of people that want to know why he isn't coming to Houston. Every time Bill Cowher gets mentioned on this board, Bull Nation always has to piss in our Cheerios....but then he never says why he's so sure of it.

Would he rather go somewhere else?

This is a no-brainer. If McNair doesn't want to hire him, then that'll explain what he's working with upstairs.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 02:32 PM
Only 3 potential coaches i'd get rid of Kubiak for:

Cowher, Gruden and Rob Ryan.

This, minus Gruden.

Pantherstang84
12-14-2010, 02:35 PM
This, minus Gruden.

+1 on Gruden adds him back to the list. I think he is a perfect fit here.

Dread-Head
12-14-2010, 02:36 PM
And me and Bill could be added to the secondary...yeah right!

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 02:37 PM
I think next year Bill Cowher will be the head coach of the Houston Texans if Bob McNair wants him. I've thought that for some time now. He "fits" both our needs and our owners personality. McNair has a franchise-crush on the Steelers and this plays right into it. Cowher wants to win right away and not come in and rebuild a train wreck and I think he believes he can do that here.

Seems to me that McNair's franchise-crush is on the Colts. I think that's what he's modeled the team after.

Emphasis on the vertical passing game....4-3 D with undersized tackles.

If there's any quotes out there with him talking about the Steelers, I'd love to see them. That might actually get my hopes up some more.

DexmanC
12-14-2010, 02:37 PM
The NFL changed the rules after the Tampa/Oakland trade of Gruden. You can no longer trade a coaches contract for draft-picks.

That trade was good for both sides. Both got a Superbowl appearance
out of it.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 02:37 PM
If Cowher was to come here who do you think he would bring in as his DC? Would Rod Woodson be interested in coaching the defensive backfield?

Thorn
12-14-2010, 02:38 PM
If playoffs are the goal, then what makes any Joe Coach any better or worse than Kubiak? Kubiak isn't getting us to the playoffs, and if the next coach doesn't either, then are we really worse off? McNair probably is, because he really will be losing fan (and purchasing) support if the 3rd coach is a failure.

Texans_Chick
12-14-2010, 02:38 PM
Some thoughts:

Apparently, you CAN trade a coach for picks. NFL PR guy, Greg Aiello confirmed that on Twitter the other day:

http://twitter.com/StephStradley/status/13800931132973056

In addition, like all coaches including Kubiak, Cowher has strengths and weaknesses. Positives: Hasn't used up good will with fanbase, instant credibility, motivator. Negatives: Won't likely have LeBeau, defense needs a lot of work, uncertain CBA situation may mean he can't work with players, and you can't just get Cowher--you'd also have to get the right personnel/GM mix because Cowher is not good at personnel evaluation.

Some people have speculated that if Cowher got a new job, he would try to get GM Kevin Colbert to go with him. Don't see how that could happen because Colbert already functions as Steelers GM, though it appears that GM is not his title so I don't know if that would prevent a move. Some suggest that the Steelers success comes more from Colbert than any particular coach they've had.

Here's some basic info: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_609112.html

Colbert is buds with Cowher. But Colbert is also a PGH native. But money can talk, I suppose.

Hope this info is useful.

VTexan
12-14-2010, 02:39 PM
This, minus Gruden.

"this guy right here is a football player!"

Dread-Head
12-14-2010, 02:39 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3RqqSp4qGsM/SxTglwO8qxI/AAAAAAAAAIc/rPMmyYcUltM/s1600/GinnyspField_01.jpg

"If God ain't want me huntin' bares...then why tha hell'd he make em with targets on em?"



Seriously...how Vukked would this bear be in real life?

gary
12-14-2010, 02:40 PM
Tom Caughlin if he gets fired but he won't be.

Hookem Horns
12-14-2010, 02:40 PM
And the Giants are not going to fire Coughlin. That takes two teams out of the running for Cowher.



If you want Cowher here you better pull for the Giants the rest of the way. I doubt Coughlin will get fired however if the season ends on a sour note it's not out of the realm of possibility. Not all teams are like the Texans.

Sunday's game vs Philly is huge. If they lose that they probably concede the division to the Eagles. Then they will be fighting for a Wild Card spot with the Packers whom they play the following week at Lambeau I believe.

If they fail to make the playoffs there will be some that feel Coughlin has run his course there. I would still think he would not be fired however you never really know. They might if they think they can land Cowher and it's been no secret that the Giants are his first preference.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 02:43 PM
If you want Cowher here you better pull for the Giants the rest of the way. I doubt Coughlin will get fired however if the season ends on a sour note it's not out of the realm of possibility. Not all teams are like the Texans.

Sunday's game vs Philly is huge. If they lose that they probably concede the division to the Eagles. Then they will be fighting for a Wild Card spot with the Packers whom they play the following week at Lambeau I believe.

If they fail to make the playoffs there will be some that feel Coughlin has run his course there. I would still think he would not be fired however you never really know. They might if they think they can land Cowher and it's been no secret that the Giants are his first preference.

That'd be great b/c then maybe we could snatch perry fewell from the giants to be our HC.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 02:46 PM
That'd be great b/c then maybe we could snatch perry fewell from the giants to be our HC.

No. No more co-ordinators with zero or pathetic head coaching knowledge. No more risks at that position. Get a proven damn winner in here.

macho grande
12-14-2010, 02:51 PM
Here's the first thing he's going to say if he comes here....

"Why the F#$* are there so many G.D. tight ends?!"

:goodpost:

b0ng
12-14-2010, 02:51 PM
Meh, I'll believe it will happen when Kubiak gets fired. I really see no reason to even begin to get excited for anything like that to happen until there is a vacancy at the HC position.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 02:52 PM
No. No more co-ordinators with zero or pathetic head coaching knowledge. No more risks at that position. Get a proven damn winner in here.

risks either way you go & its all relative dude. Success/ or lack of success at 1 spot doesn't necessarily translate to success/lack of success in another. Just ask guys like Jim Mora Sr./Jr., Herm Edwards & of course that guy up there coaching the patriots.

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 02:52 PM
That'd be great b/c then maybe we could snatch perry fewell from the giants to be our HC.

If he wasn't good enough for the Bills, then why would we want him?

Hookem Horns
12-14-2010, 02:53 PM
That'd be great b/c then maybe we could snatch perry fewell from the giants to be our HC.

He needs more time in the Giants organization before he goes to be a HC somewhere.

If he wasn't good enough for the Bills, then why would we want him?

I think they wanted to just cut ties with the entire staff that was there. However it was their offense that was killing them. Statistically they were #2 in the AFC in defense under Fewell. He has done an excellent job so far in NY. Despite losing to the Eagles (thanks to Manning and turnovers) his gameplan vs Vick was pretty effective the last time they played. He gets another shot on Sunday.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 02:54 PM
If he wasn't good enough for the Bills, then why would we want him?

The same reason why Dungy wasn't good enough for TB....or why Belichick wasn't good enough for Cleveland.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 02:54 PM
risks either way you go & its all relative dude. Success/ or lack of success at 1 spot doesn't necessarily translate to success/lack of success in another. Just ask guys like Jim Mora Sr./Jr., Herm Edwards & of course that guy up there coaching the patriots.

I know, I know...but I am to the point I would rather play the odds and have someone with some proven, positive experience instead of someone with high potential.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 02:59 PM
It seems to me that most people have their eye on 1 of 3 candidates:

Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Rob Ryan

I'm all for that, but we need to be realistic & think that the most likely scenario for various reasons is that we end up with neither of these guys & we'll get either a 1st year guy (highly sought after coordinator) or a retread who hasn't had much success at his previous stops. & lets face it, there are more attractive jobs out there for those 3 to choose from. So, i don't want to sidetrack the thread, but i'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on who they would be comfortable with in the "others recieving votes" list of HC candidates if the 3 above aren't in play.

Thorn
12-14-2010, 03:01 PM
It seems to me that most people have their eye on 1 of 3 candidates:

Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Rob Ryan

I'm all for that, but we need to be realistic & think that the most likely scenario for various reasons is that we end up with neither of these guys & we'll get either a 1st year guy (highly sought after coordinator) or a retread who hasn't had much success at his previous stops. & lets face it, there are more attractive jobs out there.

Or we end up with another year of Kubiak, which wouldn't not suprise me in the least no matter what the team does in the last three games.

TheCD
12-14-2010, 03:02 PM
It seems to me that most people have their eye on 1 of 3 candidates:

Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Rob Ryan

I'm all for that, but we need to be realistic & think that the most likely scenario for various reasons is that we end up with neither of these guys & we'll get either a 1st year guy (highly sought after coordinator) or a retread who hasn't had much success at his previous stops. & lets face it, there are more attractive jobs out there.

Eh, I actually think Houston is a perfect stop for a coach with a big ego. We've got a good semblance of talent and to have success here would pretty much mean he gets a statue in his honor. Hell...I'd probably chip in for a statue for just getting us our first playoff win next year. :kitten:

Surreal McCoy
12-14-2010, 03:03 PM
If Kubes is fired (which I think he will be given the level of moaning) then I want Cowher as HC. That way we can at least finally get that rock out from under our saddle as it will take very little time to show his true skills without a Colbert there providing him top talent.

Of course, if he could somehow talk Colbert into coming with him, well, that's another story entirely.

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 03:04 PM
& lets face it, there are more attractive jobs out there.

What are they?

Dallas will probably stay with Garrett. Cowher wouldn't work for Jerry anyway.
Minnesota will probably stay with Frazier.
Denver is all that's left and that place is a mess. McDaniels set them back 10 years.

Hookem Horns
12-14-2010, 03:05 PM
What are they?

Dallas will probably stay with Garrett. Cowher wouldn't work for Jerry anyway.
Minnesota will probably stay with Frazier.
Denver is all that's left and that place is a mess. McDaniels set them back 10 years.

Carolina since he lives there however just like Denver they are a mess too.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 03:07 PM
Eh, I actually think Houston is a perfect stop for a coach with a big ego. We've got a good semblance of talent and to have success here would pretty much mean he gets a statue in his honor. Hell...I'd probably chip in for a statue for just getting us our first playoff win next year. :kitten:

You think Jerrah would drop garrett in a heartbeat if he found out that Cowher or Gruden were interested? I think we know the answer to that question. The same for the vikings. They are teams taylor made to win now.

Rob Ryan might very well be a candidate to replace Mangini in Cleveland. Sure, they'll need a little work on the offensive side, but Ryan already has his defense in place, the fans there are rabid & extremely supportive & he'll get a great draft pick to start off with.

DX-TEX
12-14-2010, 03:08 PM
It seems to me that most people have their eye on 1 of 3 candidates:

Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Rob Ryan

I'm all for that, but we need to be realistic & think that the most likely scenario for various reasons is that we end up with neither of these guys & we'll get either a 1st year guy (highly sought after coordinator) or a retread who hasn't had much success at his previous stops. & lets face it, there are more attractive jobs out there for those 3 to choose from. So, i don't want to sidetrack the thread, but i'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on who they would be comfortable with in the "others recieving votes" list of HC candidates if the 3 above aren't in play.

I would be interested in knowing who you think is more attractive. Minnesota?Dallas? Cincinatti? Denver? San Francisco? These are the teams that are either open now or 99% chance they will be at years end.

Houston has:

1) LOTS of raw and young talent. Not to mention the leading NFL rusher, a good starting QB, best WR in the game a defense that is young and talented but just a couple pieces away from being really good.
2) First class facility
3) Owner with deep pockets
4) Owner who lets his football guys run the operation
5) Stays relatively out of the national spotlight

None of those other teams have near this. Dallas does but J jones is his own worst enemy.

gary
12-14-2010, 03:11 PM
Let's just see if Gary is even fired before we all take guesses.

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 03:11 PM
It seems to me that most people have their eye on 1 of 3 candidates:

Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Rob Ryan

I'm all for that, but we need to be realistic & think that the most likely scenario for various reasons is that we end up with neither of these guys & we'll get either a 1st year guy (highly sought after coordinator) or a retread who hasn't had much success at his previous stops. & lets face it, there are more attractive jobs out there for those 3 to choose from. So, i don't want to sidetrack the thread, but i'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on who they would be comfortable with in the "others recieving votes" list of HC candidates if the 3 above aren't in play.

I'd be open to looking at any other candidate if those 3 aren't available. We would be stupid not to consider everybody available for a job. What other attractive jobs do you think will be available?

GuerillaBlack
12-14-2010, 03:12 PM
You think Jerrah would drop garrett in a heartbeat if he found out that Cowher or Gruden were interested? I think we know the answer to that question. The same for the vikings. They are teams taylor made to win now.

Rob Ryan might very well be a candidate to replace Mangini in Cleveland. Sure, they'll need a little work on the offensive side, but Ryan already has his defense in place, the fans there are rabid & extremely supportive & he'll get a great draft pick to start off with.

For the millionth time, Cowher would not work under someone like Jerry Jones AND Cowher is not even on Jones' short list. Garrett will be the Cowboys HC next year. That's all they are saying up here in DFW.

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 03:19 PM
Carolina since he lives there however just like Denver they are a mess too.

I think John Fox is getting screwed over by his front office. All of a sudden, they got cheap and started letting all their best players walk.

Makes me think that they're trying to save up for a big name coach.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 03:20 PM
For the millionth time, Cowher would not work under someone like Jerry Jones AND Cowher is not even on Jones' short list. Garrett will be the Cowboys HC next year. That's all they are saying up here in DFW.

Yeah, we all thought Parcells wouldn't work with a guy like jerry either, but we also know too that at the end of the day, money talks. I don't want to hear about short lists b/c at this point, its all posturing. If cowher expressed interest, best believe Jerry would pay him whatever he wanted b/c above all, he wants to win. For the record i don't think he'd go there either, but you can't just rule it out like its impossible.

gary
12-14-2010, 03:21 PM
I think John Fox is getting screwed over by his front office. All of a sudden, they got cheap and started letting all their best players walk.

Makes me think that they're trying to save up for a big name coach.
I'd take Fox here.

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 03:21 PM
I think John Fox is getting screwed over by his front office. All of a sudden, they got cheap and started letting all their best players walk.

Makes me think that they're trying to save up for a big name coach.

That is a terrible way to recruit a big name coach. Not many coaches would like to work under that type of management.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 03:27 PM
Add me to the list of people that want to know why he isn't coming to Houston. Every time Bill Cowher gets mentioned on this board, Bull Nation always has to piss in our Cheerios....but then he never says why he's so sure of it.

Would he rather go somewhere else?

This is a no-brainer. If McNair doesn't want to hire him, then that'll explain what he's working with upstairs.

Piss in your Cheerios, I won't have to piss in anything, that will be Bob McNair doing that for you ,fanboy. I am such trying to save you the headache of disappointment when Kubiak is here in 2011 for his 6th failed season...

Reality, as cruel and cold as it can be, sucks....

hradhak
12-14-2010, 03:27 PM
Yeah, we all thought Parcells wouldn't work with a guy like jerry either, but we also know too that at the end of the day, money talks. I don't want to hear about short lists b/c at this point, its all posturing. If cowher expressed interest, best believe Jerry would pay him whatever he wanted b/c above all, he wants to win. For the record i don't think he'd go there either, but you can't just rule it out like its impossible.

There's no doubt that the Jerry would bite his tongue to get a guy like Cowher. He'd end up blowing it by slowing creeping into the Coach's personal space. And after the checks are cashed and a lot of pissed off exchanges, Cowher would leave, most likely without a super bowl

I think we have a much better recruiting tool in that our owner, for the most part, is hands off AND is willing to pay the kinda money Jerry is willing to dish out.

Again I don't know where all the rumors have started that Cowher wants to come here, but if they are true and he is willing to coach for us, I would welcome him over any other potential coach in the NFL. I just won't believe it until I actually see it.

HoustonFrog
12-14-2010, 03:27 PM
That is a terrible way to recruit a big name coach. Not many coaches would like to work under that type of management.

Talent is the problem. I don't think Cowher would want to go there now. They are depleted and he would basically have to start from scratch.

ChampionTexan
12-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Yeah, we all thought Parcells wouldn't work with a guy like jerry either, but we also know too that at the end of the day, money talks. I don't want to hear about short lists b/c at this point, its all posturing. If cowher expressed interest, best believe Jerry would pay him whatever he wanted b/c above all, he wants to win. For the record i don't think he'd go there either, but you can't just rule it out like its impossible.

How can you say that the same man that's hired Barry Switzer, Chan Gailey, Dave Campo and Wade Phillips would pay Cowher "whatever he wanted"? Seems like his history would suggest that's the exception rather than the rule?

And for the record, I don't say that because I don't believe he wants to win - I just don't believe he thinks he needs to throw a dump-truck of money at a coach to make that happen.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 03:30 PM
Reason?

Reason, how about $10-$12 million dollars a year as a reason, how about Bob McNair and his undying loyalty to his "home town boy", how about that team up I 45 has an owner that will go extremely deep in his pockets to get the man he wants while this owner looks for change in the couches to pay OC to be first year coaches....


Bill Cowher WILL NOT coach the Houston Texans.

Mr. White
12-14-2010, 03:31 PM
Piss in your Cheerios, I won't have to piss in anything, that will be Bob McNair doing that for you ,fanboy.

Lighten up dude. It was a joke.

BTW, that's probably the first time I've ever been called a fanboy here.

steelbtexan
12-14-2010, 03:32 PM
It seems to me that most people have their eye on 1 of 3 candidates:

Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Rob Ryan

I'm all for that, but we need to be realistic & think that the most likely scenario for various reasons is that we end up with neither of these guys & we'll get either a 1st year guy (highly sought after coordinator) or a retread who hasn't had much success at his previous stops. & lets face it, there are more attractive jobs out there for those 3 to choose from. So, i don't want to sidetrack the thread, but i'm interested to hear everyone's opinion on who they would be comfortable with in the "others recieving votes" list of HC candidates if the 3 above aren't in play.

After those 3 my list would be

1 Billick HC/Lewis DC
2. John Fox HC/Phillips DC
3. Marriuci HC

All of the above are proven winners who have the contacts to put together a great staff.

Double Barrel
12-14-2010, 03:33 PM
Some thoughts:

Apparently, you CAN trade a coach for picks. NFL PR guy, Greg Aiello confirmed that on Twitter the other day:

http://twitter.com/StephStradley/status/13800931132973056

In addition, like all coaches including Kubiak, Cowher has strengths and weaknesses. Positives: Hasn't used up good will with fanbase, instant credibility, motivator. Negatives: Won't likely have LeBeau, defense needs a lot of work, uncertain CBA situation may mean he can't work with players, and you can't just get Cowher--you'd also have to get the right personnel/GM mix because Cowher is not good at personnel evaluation.

Some people have speculated that if Cowher got a new job, he would try to get GM Kevin Colbert to go with him. Don't see how that could happen because Colbert already functions as Steelers GM, though it appears that GM is not his title so I don't know if that would prevent a move. Some suggest that the Steelers success comes more from Colbert than any particular coach they've had.

Here's some basic info: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_609112.html

Colbert is buds with Cowher. But Colbert is also a PGH native. But money can talk, I suppose.

Hope this info is useful.

I've never read that Cowher is not good at talent evaluation. Where is the meat of that claim?

All I know is that his head coaching resume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher) is impressive:

Under Cowher, the Steelers showed an immediate improvement from the disappointing 7-9 season the year before, going 11-5 and earning home field advantage in the AFC after the Steelers had missed the playoffs six times out of the previous seven years. In 1995, at age 38, he became the youngest coach to lead his team to a Super Bowl. Cowher is only the second coach in NFL history to lead his team to the playoffs in each of his first six seasons as head coach, joining Pro Football Hall of Fame member Paul Brown.

In Cowher’s 15 seasons, the Steelers captured eight division titles, earned ten postseason playoff berths, played in 21 playoff games, advanced to six AFC Championship games and made two Super Bowl appearances. He is one of only six coaches in NFL history to claim at least seven division titles. It has become an article of faith among NFL pundits that the Steelers do not have a bad team two years in a row – they have never lost 10 or more games in consecutive years since the 1970 NFL merger. At the conclusion of the 2005 season, the Pittsburgh Steelers had the best record of any team in the National Football League since Cowher was hired as head coach.

I find it hard to believe that a head coach with this resume can't evaluate talent.

The rest of the negatives mentioned don't concern me:

Won't likely have LeBeau - I have little doubt that Cowher could attract other solid DCs. LeBeau is great, but not the only good DC in the league.

defense needs a lot of work - This is reality regardless of who is the head coach.

uncertain CBA situation may mean he can't work with players - So the 2011 season is a wash, but I'd expect it to be with a new head coach even without a labor situation. Hiring a new head coach is another long-term comittment so expectations of 2011 should be tempered accordingly.

I still have not read/heard a good case against Cowher as our head coach.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 03:37 PM
Lighten up dude. It was a joke.

BTW, that's probably the first time I've ever been called a fanboy here.

Man, I am as cool as the other side of a pillow. Aren't we all fanboys in one way or another?

I just do not see McNair paying that kind of jack to get the head coach he needs. He will settle for a John Fox or some OC that he feels can get tot heat next step.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 03:37 PM
How can you say that the same man that's hired Barry Switzer, Chan Gailey, Dave Campo and Wade Phillips would pay Cowher "whatever he wanted"? Seems like his history would suggest that's the exception rather than the rule?

And for the record, I don't say that because I don't believe he wants to win - I just don't believe he thinks he needs to throw a dump-truck of money at a coach to make that happen.

Come on, this is a guy who plays up to the dallas cowboy mystique of being flashy. Bringing in TO after the Philly fiasco. Bringing in "the tuna". The ridiculous Roy Williams trade. hell he just dropped a billion plus on a freaking stadium complete with table dancers & screen 1000 times bigger than my house.

You really don't think that he'd take the opportunity to bring more attention to the cow patties by bringing in Cowher.............the most sought after coach for the last 2 years if Cowher showed interest?

GuerillaBlack
12-14-2010, 03:39 PM
Yeah, we all thought Parcells wouldn't work with a guy like jerry either, but we also know too that at the end of the day, money talks. I don't want to hear about short lists b/c at this point, its all posturing. If cowher expressed interest, best believe Jerry would pay him whatever he wanted b/c above all, he wants to win. For the record i don't think he'd go there either, but you can't just rule it out like its impossible.

But he hasn't expressed any interest and everyone in DFW loves Garrett.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 03:40 PM
I've never read that Cowher is not good at talent evaluation. Where is the meat of that claim?

All I know is that his head coaching resume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher) is impressive:



I find it hard to believe that a head coach with this resume can't evaluate talent.

The rest of the negatives mentioned don't concern me:

Won't likely have LeBeau - I have little doubt that Cowher could attract other solid DCs. LeBeau is great, but not the only good DC in the league.

defense needs a lot of work - This is reality regardless of who is the head coach.

uncertain CBA situation may mean he can't work with players - So the 2011 season is a wash, but I'd expect it to be with a new head coach even without a labor situation. Hiring a new head coach is another long-term comittment so expectations of 2011 should be tempered accordingly.

I still have not read/heard a good case against Cowher as our head coach.

I'd say if Cowher is wanting in excess of 10-12 million a year to coach, that would be a pretty good case for him not coming to Houston. Assumption? Sure but knowing how loyal the Texans owner is to Kubiak and is not know for shelling out that kind of jack, even for players, it is a pretty good sign...

steelbtexan
12-14-2010, 03:42 PM
BN4L still is upset that some were proven correct when they said there was no way the Texans would make the playoffs.

BTW, SOS does matter in the NFL. Example Tacks/Texans have had the toughest SOS. Not coincidentally they wont be going to the playoffs.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 03:42 PM
After those 3 my list would be

1 Billick HC/Lewis DC
2. John Fox HC/Phillips DC
3. Marriuci HC

All of the above are proven winners who have the contacts to put together a great staff.

God no to the bolded. I like the 1st combo.

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 03:43 PM
Come on, this is a guy who plays up to the dallas cowboy mystique of being flashy. Bringing in TO after the Philly fiasco. Bringing in "the tuna". The ridiculous Roy Williams trade. hell he just dropped a billion plus on a freaking stadium complete with table dancers & screen 1000 times bigger than my house.

You really don't think that he'd take the opportunity to bring more attention to the cow patties by bringing in Cowher.............the most sought after coach for the last 2 years if Cowher showed interest?

Cowher and Jones would clash. They both want to be calling the shots without the other one in their way. The only way those two get together is if Jones swallows his pride (highly unlikely) and offers Cowher so much $ that he can't say no.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 03:44 PM
BN4L still is upset that some were proven correct when they said there was no way the Texans would make the playoffs.

BTW, SOS does matter in the NFL. Example Tacks/Texans have had the toughest SOS. Not coincidentally they wont be going to the playoffs.

I don't recall ever being in any of those conversations to begin with and I knew they were not making the playoffs after they got demolished by a 1 win Cowboys team...Sorry, you got me confused with someone else it seems...

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 03:45 PM
But he hasn't expressed any interest and everyone in DFW loves Garrett.

Lol to the bolded. Unless attitudes have COMPLETELY changed over these last few weeks, i heard & read the direct opposite from fans...in fact it was thought that he was part of the problem under phillips.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 03:46 PM
Cowher and Jones would clash. They both want to be calling the shots without the other one in their way. The only way those two get together is if Jones swallows his pride (highly unlikely) and offers Cowher so much $ that he can't say no.

If it meant getting his Cowboys back in the limelight, he would swallow it for a while until Cowher was successful....

HoustonFrog
12-14-2010, 03:49 PM
But he hasn't expressed any interest and everyone in DFW loves Garrett.

Not everyone. Surprisingly...myself included...people still see old tendencies. The guy has changed the culture. Practices are tough. The team has alot of effort but you still have a talented team and they are still losing close games. Wade lost the first 5 by less than double digits so close isn't good enough. Garrett was not liked as OC the last 2 years and some people see some of the same issues with the offense despite the numbers going up. I was at the game this Sunday vs the Eagles and they still do some head scratching things....double reverses, running up the gut, etc. The end of the Saints game was a total disaster. We will see. I think Jerry owes it to himself and the franchise to do his due diligence in asking around. Plus Jerry usually goes out on a limb for a guy and so far he has only said he likes the changes he sees but that he is still "interim."

Also, who says Garrett won't get interest elsewhere. He may want his own staff instead of keeping Campo and the old cronies. Again, it will be interesting.

steelbtexan
12-14-2010, 03:49 PM
I don't recall ever being in any of those conversations to begin with and I knew they were not making the playoffs after they got demolished by a 1 win Cowboys team...Sorry, you got me confused with someone else it seems...


I apologize, sorry for the confusion.

Could be the hangover from last night is just starting to set in. LOL

HOU-TEX
12-14-2010, 03:51 PM
This "Cowher might come to Houston" talk reminds me of a typical Texans season. All the talk, hype and optimism during the off-season has us fans all fired up, but end up getting kicked in the package and sent abruptly down to Earth.

We all can wish and hope, but don't we usually end up pissed off?

TheCD
12-14-2010, 03:54 PM
I'd say if Cowher is wanting in excess of 10-12 million a year to coach, that would be a pretty good case for him not coming to Houston. Assumption? Sure but knowing how loyal the Texans owner is to Kubiak and is not know for shelling out that kind of jack, even for players, it is a pretty good sign...

I wish that, one way or another, this label would either be proven true or false.

People tend to say he's frugal and won't pay anyone any money...


Then we hear about how the Texans "overpaid player X". Anyone remember the complaints about overpaying Orlovsky? How about Smith? Anthony Weaver? Mr. Mittens? Those are just a few right off the top of my head.

GuerillaBlack
12-14-2010, 03:59 PM
Lol to the bolded. Unless attitudes have COMPLETELY changed over these last few weeks, i heard & read the direct opposite from fans...in fact it was thought that he was part of the problem under phillips.

LOL at you. Aren't you all the way out in Cali? I live in the DFW area bro. I would know. They love Garrett out here. Some of the stuff from the Wade era still lingers, but the team is actually fighting now and not quitting during games. If they had a healthy Romo and Bryant, they would have beaten the Saints or the Eagles, or both. He was applauded when he sat Marion Barber because Marion didn't follow the new dress code (and he wasn't the only player that was disciplined). The Cowboys fans up here believe Garrett has a little Sean Payton in him.

Not everyone. Surprisingly...myself included...people still see old tendencies. The guy has changed the culture. Practices are tough. The team has alot of effort but you still have a talented team and they are still losing close games. Wade lost the first 5 by less than double digits so close isn't good enough. Garrett was not liked as OC the last 2 years and some people see some of the same issues with the offense despite the numbers going up. I was at the game this Sunday vs the Eagles and they still do some head scratching things....double reverses, running up the gut, etc. The end of the Saints game was a total disaster. We will see. I think Jerry owes it to himself and the franchise to do his due diligence in asking around. Plus Jerry usually goes out on a limb for a guy and so far he has only said he likes the changes he sees but that he is still "interim."

Also, who says Garrett won't get interest elsewhere. He may want his own staff instead of keeping Campo and the old cronies. Again, it will be interesting.

*looks at the Cowboys' record*

So, what's the problem again? It's not like they are going to win anything this year anyway. Why not try a few gadget plays and things you wouldn't normally do if you were in contention?

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 03:59 PM
I wish that, one way or another, this label would either be proven true or false.

People tend to say he's frugal and won't pay anyone any money...


Then we hear about how the Texans "overpaid player X". Anyone remember the complaints about overpaying Orlovsky? How about Smith? Anthony Weaver? Mr. Mittens? Those are just a few right off the top of my head.

It was debunked years ago, there are still a few in here who think that he's cheap b/c he didn't shell out 100 million to get the albert haynesworth's or julius peppers or more close to home & in hindsight, Dunta Robinson.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:00 PM
I wish that, one way or another, this label would either be proven true or false.

People tend to say he's frugal and won't pay anyone any money...


Then we hear about how the Texans "overpaid player X". Anyone remember the complaints about overpaying Orlovsky? How about Smith? Anthony Weaver? Mr. Mittens? Those are just a few right off the top of my head.

My bad I guess I should have said "good or star players that actually help the team win." McNair does shell out money, but it always seems to be bad money spent on bad players....

MojoX
12-14-2010, 04:02 PM
My bad I guess I should have said "good or star players that actually help the team win." McNair does shell out money, but it always seems to be bad money spent on bad players....

Andre Johnson? DeMeco Ryans?

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:03 PM
It was debunked years ago, there are still a few in here who think that he's cheap b/c he didn't shell out 100 million to get the albert haynesworth's or julius peppers or more close to home & in hindsight, Dunta Robinson.

Who besides Andre Johnsons extension, has Bob McNair or Kubiak gone out and spent money on who was a game changer that helped this team get over the hump of being mediocre? Who? Either they take a look and pass because of the $$$ or that player comes to Houston and uses the Texans as a bargaining chip to get more money else where.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 04:03 PM
Aren't you all the way out in Cali? I live in the DFW area bro. I would know. They love Garrett out here. Some of the stuff from the Wade era still lingers, but the team is actually fighting now.

No lol...i'm right here in houston fighting off the infection that is dallas cowboy fandom everywhere i turn.

hradhak
12-14-2010, 04:04 PM
My bad I guess I should have said "good or star players that actually help the team win." McNair does shell out money, but it always seems to be bad money spent on bad players....

But that's gotta be on his GM/coaches. McNair can't tell the difference between Mr. Mittens and a real cat. He just signs wherever his GM tells him to.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:05 PM
Andre Johnson? DeMeco Ryans?

Those are extensions, if you want to count those, OK, I'll give those but who outside the organization, FA if you will, that could help this team stop being mediocre.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 04:07 PM
Who besides Andre Johnsons extension, has Bob McNair or Kubiak gone out and spent money on who was a game changer that helped this team get over the hump of being mediocre? Who? Either they take a look and pass because of the $$$ or that player comes to Houston and uses the Texans as a bargaining chip to get more money else where.

It's not as simple as you're making it out to be like he can just say "here, here's 60 million dollars guaranteed, now you play for me.." There has to mutual interest.

But since you asked, the guy above me cited numerous people he has spent ridiculous amounts of money (considering who they were) to keep or acquire. Just b/c those players were garbage & didn't work out doesn't mean that he's cheap or unwilling to spend his money.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:09 PM
But that's gotta be on his GM/coaches. McNair can't tell the difference between Mr. Mittens and a real cat. He just signs wherever his GM tells him to.

and that is where he is failing as an owner. I am not saying he needs to be Jerry Jones, but McNair needs to educate himself who his GM is signing and if they are worth that kind of money. It seems he gets talked into transactions more so than making a firm decision.

HoustonFrog
12-14-2010, 04:09 PM
*looks at the Cowboys' record*

So, what's the problem again? It's not like they are going to win anything this year anyway. Why not try a few gadget plays and things you wouldn't normally do if you were in contention?

Because he is trying to establish himself as coach. They are trying to win games to carry over into next year. I don't mind reverses or some gadgets here and there. But they already had run a reverse once for some yardage. They then got dropped on another one. Then they tried a double. At some point, throw to Austin and get Felix outside. My point being...he was called out as OC for not sticking to what was working and for not having a true identity. These tendencies seem to come up in alot of these game. You can't just be loosey goosey and then start next year and be conservative again. I like what he is doing with the team but is he going to have to keep the staff in place?Will he be able to establish himself in Jerry's world? Can he hire and fire like Jimmy did when there was discipline problems? If it is "no" then why would he want to be there and why would fans want the same results, just with more effort. It always comes back to Jerry.

Anyways, I think Jerry will call the guys out there and get feelers. I still think Garrett needs to win some games.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:11 PM
It's not as simple as you're making it out to be like he can just say "here, here's 60 million dollars guaranteed, now you play for me.." There has to mutual interest.

But since you asked, the guy above me cited numerous people he has spent ridiculous amounts of money (considering who they were) to keep or acquire. Just b/c those players were garbage & didn't work out doesn't mean that he's cheap or unwilling to spend his money.

I get that but i was referring to players that were actually good. Those guys he mentioned were hole fillers or outcasts on another team. What player was signed that has absolutely helped this team turn it around for the better? You could say Pollard but not after this year...

MojoX
12-14-2010, 04:11 PM
Those are extensions, if you want to count those, OK, I'll give those but who outside the organization, FA if you will, that could help this team stop being mediocre.
Who was seriously considering the Texans or was rumored to be considering the Texans?

Last I looked, non of the big-time free agents, like Peppers, were remotely considering the Texans so McNair didn't get the opportunity to open the checkbook for them. And some others, like some CB the last couple of years, were just using the Texans as leverage with a team they really wanted to sign with.

It takes two to tango. McNair can write the check, but the player has to want to come here. Name the guy who wanted to dance.

MojoX
12-14-2010, 04:13 PM
I get that but i was referring to players that were actually good. Those guys he mentioned were hole fillers or outcasts on another team. What player was signed that has absolutely helped this team turn it around for the better? You could say Pollard but not after this year...

If the player did not help, that is not on McNair. That is on the GM and coach. McNair provides the money, they provide the football evaluation. Either somebody screwed up the talent evaluation or someone can't coach the talent.

GP
12-14-2010, 04:14 PM
Lol to the bolded. Unless attitudes have COMPLETELY changed over these last few weeks, i heard & read the direct opposite from fans...in fact it was thought that he was part of the problem under phillips.

I think you listened to Internet rumors about Garrett being in the same hot water as Wade Phillips. I remember hearing the same thing, and guess what? The Garrett-led Cowboys are faring pretty well so far. After how badly they looked with Wade at HC this year, and then to see the instant turn-around with Garrett at HC, I don't think there are Cowboys fans out there openly laughing (and crying and angered) at the Cowboys games right now...such as we are doing with Texans games.

Fans pretty much want their team to win. Garrett has provided some wins thus far, something that Wade wasn't going to do the rest of the year. Plus, Kitna is a better Qb than Romo. I have never liked Romo and never will. Period. He's not the guy his fans think he is, IMO.

If Garrett continues to make that team look respectable, he'll remain HC for at least one-year. I can see a one-year "trial version" for Garrett at HC.

So we are "LOL at y-o-u" right now because your weeks-old rumor has lost steam and isn't valid anymore. Fail.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 04:16 PM
I get that but i was referring to players that were actually good. Those guys he mentioned were hole fillers or outcasts on another team. What player was signed that has absolutely helped this team turn it around for the better? You could say Pollard but not after this year...

Whether they are good or not is not the point. By you asserting that he's frugal, means that he's unwilling to spend money.........................on anyone & that's so far from the truth. He spends, he's just spent it badly.

Besides, spending money isn't the end all be all, look at the dumpster fire that is washington. They've spent ridiculous amounts of money over the years & it has amounted to zilch.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:16 PM
Who was seriously considering the Texans or was rumored to be considering the Texans?

Last I looked, non of the big-time free agents, like Peppers, were remotely considering the Texans so McNair didn't get the opportunity to open the checkbook for them. And some others, like some CB the last couple of years, were just using the Texans as leverage with a team they really wanted to sign with.

It takes two to tango. McNair can write the check, but the player has to want to come here. Name the guy who wanted to dance.

Then I guess we have an Egg or Chicken first situation. We don't know if McNair and staff even reached out to those players because they were looking for a payday and McNair and Co. wasn't willing to pay that kind of money.

That is exactly what I am talking about, in bold, instead of making an aggressive decision, going out and getting a player that could really help, they end up getting used by other players because the other players already know this owner is not going to spend the money to bring them in.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:20 PM
Whether they are good or not is not the point. By you asserting that he's frugal, means that he's unwilling to spend money.........................on anyone & that's so far from the truth. He spends, he's just spent it badly.

Besides, spending money isn't the end all be all, look at the dumpster fire that is washington. They've spent ridiculous amounts of money over the years & it has amounted to zilch.

I believe I stated that he spends bad money on bad players, my point was what about the good or star players that you know are good and that can actually help this team and are not band aides or gap stops. where is the money being spent on them?

Washington's problems was coaching, not talent. All that money they spent, had they had a decent coach, and not one that coached back int he 80's, that may have been a different situation.

fiasco west
12-14-2010, 04:20 PM
Steve Young said it best last night after the game: "It's like this team doesn't play with urgency, unless they are desperate and are down by 21 points. If you can get this Texans team to play like they are down by 14 or 21 points at the beginning of each game, they would be a scary team to beat". I think Cowher can get this team to come out and play like that. Come on down to Houston, Bill Cowher. We want you here.

That's because Kubiak coaches not to lose. He coaches the entire team like this and once the team is behind and their backs against the wall does he coach to win. This shows throughout his history, thats why Texans always close out strong. They are a passive *** team. The moment they get aggressive is the moment they show their true talent.

With that said...PLEASE PLEASE be true. PLEASE us folk in Houston have suffered long enough don't ya think Football Gods?

GP
12-14-2010, 04:22 PM
Then I guess we have an Egg or Chicken first situation. We don't know if McNair and staff even reached out to those players because they were looking for a payday and McNair and Co. wasn't willing to pay that kind of money.

That is exactly what I am talking about, in bold, instead of making an aggressive decision, going out and getting a player that could really help, they end up getting used by other players because the other players already know this owner is not going to spend the money to bring them in.

McNair thinks he already has free agents "locked up" by (a) having a world-class facility that other teams might not have, and (b) by doing things like taking a player out to dinner and smiling at them throughout the meal, such as they did with Leigh Bodden.

Then, ringy-dingy-ding-ding! The free agent's phone rings, his agency tells him to finish the meal and fly home because another team just up'd the money for him. "Thank you for the wonderful meal, Mr. McNair. We'll be in touch." But...but...you aren't going to stop by and talk about the contract? Please stay. PLEASE!

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 04:22 PM
Then I guess we have an Egg or Chicken first situation. We don't know if McNair and staff even reached out to those players because they were looking for a payday and McNair and Co. wasn't willing to pay that kind of money.

That is exactly what I am talking about, in bold, instead of making an aggressive decision, going out and getting a player that could really help, they end up getting used by other players because the other players already know this owner is not going to spend the money to bring them in.

So basically this is what you want him to overpay. IF you do that, you lose all negotiating power you might have & any decent agent is gonna take you to the cleaners.

ThaShark316
12-14-2010, 04:22 PM
firecowher.com by 2012.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:24 PM
So basically this is what you want him to overpay. IF you do that, you lose all negotiating power you might have & any decent agent is gonna take you to the cleaners.

If it means getting a star quality player that could help this team get over that hump, absolutely. Doesn't need to be 4-5, but 1-2 would make a world of difference. Especially when your veteran leaders on this team are what 5 year pros?

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 04:25 PM
firecowher.com by 2012.

Don't know if you saw it last night, but i was at the game and Antonio Smith had a red ninja mask on was he came out of the tunnel...

infantrycak
12-14-2010, 04:26 PM
John Fox? - he's a winner? - seriously? I fail to see how a coach who has had 3 winning seasons out of 10 as a HC (none of them back to back) and is about to get run out of town leaving behind the #1 draft pick is the guy to fix the Texans.

Mr teX
12-14-2010, 04:26 PM
I believe I stated that he spends bad money on bad players, my point was what about the good or star players that you know are good and that can actually help this team and are not band aides or gap stops. where is the money being spent on them?

Washington's problems was coaching, not talent. All that money they spent, had they had a decent coach, and not one that coached back int he 80's, that may have been a different situation.

Umm they still light millions on fire to this day. They just dropped 100 million on a guy who has all the talent to be great at his position but is known to be a lazy malcontent.

Not sure where you're going with this but, your premise is just flat out wrong about Mcnair being cheap. acquiring big name FA's isn't the only way to spend money on a team.

MojoX
12-14-2010, 04:26 PM
Then I guess we have an Egg or Chicken first situation. We don't know if McNair and staff even reached out to those players because they were looking for a payday and McNair and Co. wasn't willing to pay that kind of money.

That is exactly what I am talking about, in bold, instead of making an aggressive decision, going out and getting a player that could really help, they end up getting used by other players because the other players already know this owner is not going to spend the money to bring them in.

No, what you are talking about is if you personally heard the Texans were going after player X or player Y. Face it, McNair, like most owners, is not Jones or Snyder. He isn't about the spotlight or the bluster. He doesn't do business in the press.

You have no proof that McNair is frugal. You started off saying he was frugal. When the facts were presented you changed your argument to being abut free agents from other teams. When facts were presented again, the argument became about free agents that helped the team win.

Until the facts prove otherwise, let it go and find some other reason to trash McNair.

This team has plenty of problems. I don't think McNair ranks high on the list.

MojoX
12-14-2010, 04:28 PM
So basically this is what you want him to overpay. IF you do that, you lose all negotiating power you might have & any decent agent is gonna take you to the cleaners.

You also destroy your ability to deal with the salary cap.

Double Barrel
12-14-2010, 05:10 PM
I'd say if Cowher is wanting in excess of 10-12 million a year to coach, that would be a pretty good case for him not coming to Houston. Assumption? Sure but knowing how loyal the Texans owner is to Kubiak and is not know for shelling out that kind of jack, even for players, it is a pretty good sign...

I don't think money is the issue with Billionaire Bob. I honestly don't think this team is being run by accountants (or even the marketing department, although they do get more than their fair share of say it seems...)

Loyalty and cat-like patience are the keys with McNair, both personality traits in short supply with this Charlie Brown fan base.

This "Cowher might come to Houston" talk reminds me of a typical Texans season. All the talk, hype and optimism during the off-season has us fans all fired up, but end up getting kicked in the package and sent abruptly down to Earth.

We all can wish and hope, but don't we usually end up pissed off?

yep, I agree completely. I am mentally preparing myself for the inevitable "Gary is a good coach but the players failed him" press conference on January 3, 2011. Lots of reasons why McNair will go with status quo.

And we will be left with that empty feeling of another fruitless year behind us and every attempt will be made to pour battle red koolaid in all of our empty glasses by talking endlessly about the positive aspects of a 6th year of Kubiak and how Wade will make the new & improved Texans defense one of the best in 2011.

Surprise me, Bob!!!

dalemurphy
12-14-2010, 06:28 PM
John Fox? - he's a winner? - seriously? I fail to see how a coach who has had 3 winning seasons out of 10 as a HC (none of them back to back) and is about to get run out of town leaving behind the #1 draft pick is the guy to fix the Texans.


Carolina purged the talent on the team, dumped their best player, stuck him with a rookie QB, made him a lame duck coach in the last year of his deal, because they are positioning themselves for financial stability in the midst of a lockout... He took a Delhomme led team to the Superbowl. He may not have a great resume, but he is certainly a quality coach. He would be my fourth or fifth choice, probably, but I couldn't blame some fans for being excited about him.

DexmanC
12-14-2010, 06:29 PM
You also destroy your ability to deal with the salary cap.

The salaries of the coaching staff are exempt from the salary cap.

texanchris
12-14-2010, 06:33 PM
please dont get my hopes up, as much as i want it to happen i think kubiak will stay here for at least another year.

gary
12-14-2010, 06:34 PM
John Fox? - he's a winner? - seriously? I fail to see how a coach who has had 3 winning seasons out of 10 as a HC (none of them back to back) and is about to get run out of town leaving behind the #1 draft pick is the guy to fix the Texans.He has been stuck with Jake and some bad teams in recent years. Name the play makers they have on either side of football? Simith, and two outstanding running backs. They don't have any stars on the defence and rookie QB. I seem to remember in 2004 they had better wideouts, D, and Stephen Davis a top notch RB that year. The Panthers nor John has had a team like that since then. Jake is older now he hurt them for awhile and the talent is there on the Texans I would say more than the Panthers right now. Fox would not be my first choice but he is certainly not a dead beat IMO.

Thorn
12-14-2010, 06:37 PM
i guess the question is would you rather have Fox than Kubiak next year?

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 06:37 PM
I think that Bob is going to hand Kubiak his walking papers and get Cowher in here for next year. Not sure how the timing will work with the CBA ordeal, but I think Bob is ready for a change. I have absolutely nothing to back this up, just how I feel.

Thorn
12-14-2010, 06:42 PM
I think that Bob is going to hand Kubiak his walking papers and get Cowher in here for next year. Not sure how the timing will work with the CBA ordeal, but I think Bob is ready for a change. I have absolutely nothing to back this up, just how I feel.

I think most of us hope you're right, but we just don't see it happening. I would love it if it did happen though.

Pantherstang84
12-14-2010, 06:44 PM
I think that Bob is going to hand Kubiak his walking papers and get Cowher in here for next year. Not sure how the timing will work with the CBA ordeal, but I think Bob is ready for a change. I have absolutely nothing to back this up, just how I feel.

Is that before or after he counts this year's profits?

gary
12-14-2010, 06:45 PM
i guess the question is would you rather have Fox than Kubiak next year?Yep.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 06:45 PM
No, what you are talking about is if you personally heard the Texans were going after player X or player Y. Face it, McNair, like most owners, is not Jones or Snyder. He isn't about the spotlight or the bluster. He doesn't do business in the press.

You have no proof that McNair is frugal. You started off saying he was frugal. When the facts were presented you changed your argument to being abut free agents from other teams. When facts were presented again, the argument became about free agents that helped the team win.

Until the facts prove otherwise, let it go and find some other reason to trash McNair.

This team has plenty of problems. I don't think McNair ranks high on the list.

Wow where do I begin with how wrong you are. I didn't say he was frugal, I said he spends bad money on bad players. Read instead of skim. Second, BOB MCNAIR IS NOT GONNA SPEND 10-12 MILLION ON A HEAD COACH! That I did say and it is true.

He signs off on bad players and gives them bad money, name one player with star or even good caliber that they aggressively went after that did not use them to get more money from another team? Go ahead, I'll wait...

Face the facts, Texan owner is not gonna do what it takes to bring the personnel to win a Championship. He has had going on 10 years to do so, and has had 9 failures....

oh and the bold part is about the same thing so what is your damn point?

Texecutioner
12-14-2010, 07:06 PM
No, what you are talking about is if you personally heard the Texans were going after player X or player Y. Face it, McNair, like most owners, is not Jones or Snyder. He isn't about the spotlight or the bluster. He doesn't do business in the press.

You have no proof that McNair is frugal. You started off saying he was frugal. When the facts were presented you changed your argument to being abut free agents from other teams. When facts were presented again, the argument became about free agents that helped the team win.

Until the facts prove otherwise, let it go and find some other reason to trash McNair.

This team has plenty of problems. I don't think McNair ranks high on the list.

You can call him frugal if you'd like or you could say that he isn't committed to putting a winning product on the field. I'll let you take your pick. But don't sit here and say that he's neither one of those things or that there "is no proof", because since Kubiak and Rick Smith have gotten here this franchise has had a pure "build through the draft" mentality that I've criticized and brought up year after year in the off season, and it's bitten the Texans in the ass every single year of this regime. They've stayed pat and barely made any real moves at younger players that were still in their prime with a lot of good football left that were proven commodities in this league. They haven't gone after savvy veteran players that they could get on the cheap that still had some wheels left to burn that could have helped this team like so many others have.

Mcnair hasn't taken it upon himself to make improvements with this team through trades or free agency and has been extremely conservative where that's concerned. You can blame that on the GM, the coach, or whomever you want but it's Mcnair's responsibility to as an owner to be highly committed to putting a winning product on the field if he wants a high level of fan support and his lack of action to fill holes to make this team better says either one of the two things I've mentioned at the beginning of this post. I'm not sure which one it is, but it's one of them.

RagingBull
12-14-2010, 07:13 PM
Couple 12 packs of Coors Light then?

I don't think I would trade Kubes for Coors Light, but if they upped the offer to Fat Tire, I would probably pull the trigger.

gary
12-14-2010, 07:28 PM
I prefer John over Gary because at least he has been to the big dance once rather than not at all.

MojoX
12-14-2010, 07:30 PM
Wow where do I begin with how wrong you are. I didn't say he was frugal, I said he spends bad money on bad players. Read instead of skim. Second, BOB MCNAIR IS NOT GONNA SPEND 10-12 MILLION ON A HEAD COACH! That I did say and it is true.

He signs off on bad players and gives them bad money, name one player with star or even good caliber that they aggressively went after that did not use them to get more money from another team? Go ahead, I'll wait...

Face the facts, Texan owner is not gonna do what it takes to bring the personnel to win a Championship. He has had going on 10 years to do so, and has had 9 failures....

oh and the bold part is about the same thing so what is your damn point?
Perhaps you need to visit dictionary.com to understand how the word frugal relates to your statement that McNair wouldn't spend the kind of jack it takes to attain a coach like Cowher? From there, you can employ your keen comprehension skills to follow the evolution of your argument from page 5 to now. Oh, read... don't skim.

McNair is a patient man who understands his limits when it comes to understanding football. He isn't trying to be the GM. He seems to, rightly or wrongly, trust his football people and signs off on their schemes.

Sigh... I am often reminded why I don't bother to post much....

Ryan
12-14-2010, 07:42 PM
Are you toying with my emotions? The link doesn't work.

MojoX
12-14-2010, 07:44 PM
You can call him frugal if you'd like or you could say that he isn't committed to putting a winning product on the field. I'll let you take your pick. But don't sit here and say that he's neither one of those things or that there "is no proof", because since Kubiak and Rick Smith have gotten here this franchise has had a pure "build through the draft" mentality that I've criticized and brought up year after year in the off season, and it's bitten the Texans in the ass every single year of this regime. They've stayed pat and barely made any real moves at younger players that were still in their prime with a lot of good football left that were proven commodities in this league. They haven't gone after savvy veteran players that they could get on the cheap that still had some wheels left to burn that could have helped this team like so many others have.

Mcnair hasn't taken it upon himself to make improvements with this team through trades or free agency and has been extremely conservative where that's concerned. You can blame that on the GM, the coach, or whomever you want but it's Mcnair's responsibility to as an owner to be highly committed to putting a winning product on the field if he wants a high level of fan support and his lack of action to fill holes to make this team better says either one of the two things I've mentioned at the beginning of this post. I'm not sure which one it is, but it's one of them.

I am sitting here typing those things....

What do you want McNair to do? Go to bowl games and scout players? Go visit free agents himself? What owners do you want him to model himself after? What ideas do you have? Kubiak turned down Schobel, not McNair. Do you want McNair to go all Bud Adams on his staff and start dictating specific personel and/or strategies? Is marketing too much in the way of conducting football business?

He fired the last coach and GM that failed. He may be on the verge of firing this current combo. We'll see.

Neither of your assertions follow from McNair's public behavior. He is ultimately responsible for the results of his team. But how does Kubiak's and/or Smith's failings translate into a lack of commitment to winning in light of the fact that McNair has a history of putting money on the table (even though it was on a lot of bad bets)? I am still waiting for the evidence to mount.

Regarding the philosophies employed by McNair's football staff: what alternative strategies do you have? What teams have sustained success by not building through the draft? The Patriots? Colts? Who? I thought McNair was trying to follow the models of the league's most successful franchises. But I don't mind being wrong on that.

McNair has given Kubiak/Smith plenty of rope to hang themselves with. When the deed is done, which it appears to be -- and I actually believed in Kubiak, McNair will hire new people, probably with the input of a consultant as he did last time.

Element1337
12-14-2010, 07:47 PM
I want Cowher over Gruden. I think Gruden is a great football mind, but Cowher has the favorable postseason records over Gruden and I think could do wonders with this ball club.

JB
12-14-2010, 07:55 PM
I am sitting here typing those things....

What do you want McNair to do?

Very good post MojoX! McNair does not meddle in the team like a Jones, Adams or the fool in Washington (cant remember his name). He trusts his people to do their jobs. Just like any CEO of any company.

If he has a fault, it is in being too loyal, and looking too much at the bright points, and not putting enough weight to the bad spots.

It is on Kubiak & Smith for not having a veteran presence on this team. 3 or 4 key vets would make a huge difference on this team.

Double Barrel
12-14-2010, 08:01 PM
Very good post MojoX! McNair does not meddle in the team like a Jones, Adams or the fool in Washington (cant remember his name). He trusts his people to do their jobs. Just like any CEO of any company.

If he has a fault, it is in being too loyal, and looking too much at the bright points, and not putting enough weight to the bad spots.

It is on Kubiak & Smith for not having a veteran presence on this team. 3 or 4 key vets would make a huge difference on this team.

The quote "we're going young with the secondary" will be on the tombstone of the 2010 season, and perhaps the graveyard that is Gary Kubiak Houston Texans Head Coach.

I honestly think we'd have won at least three more games if they had just had the sense to solidify our secondary with veterans instead of the youth and inexperience we have there now.

Pantherstang84
12-14-2010, 08:03 PM
Very good post MojoX! McNair does not meddle in the team like a Jones, Adams or the fool in Washington (cant remember his name). He trusts his people to do their jobs. Just like any CEO of any company.

If he has a fault, it is in being too loyal, and looking too much at the bright points, and not putting enough weight to the bad spots.

It is on Kubiak & Smith for not having a veteran presence on this team. 3 or 4 key vets would make a huge difference on this team.

I totally agree. Some quality veterans would have made huge difference.

TEXANRED
12-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Oh snap its the off season already?

Cowher has as much chance to be the Texans head coach as Dungy agreeing to be Cowher's D coordinator.

And while we are at it I heard that the Texans have broken the genetic barrier and have Crossed Brady's, Manning's, and Vick's DNA and created the perfect QB. However he is reportedly to start the year off on the practice squad and won't be activated until we are firmly out of the playoff race.

Ryan
12-14-2010, 08:19 PM
For the love of god, can someone please get me a working link.

Pantherstang84
12-14-2010, 08:20 PM
For the love of god, can someone please get me a working link.

To what?

TheMatrix31
12-14-2010, 08:24 PM
lmfao @ John Fox instead of Kubiak.





....let's go, get Cowher in here. We're EASILY the most attractive potential opening.

OzzO
12-14-2010, 08:24 PM
..And while we are at it I heard that the Texans have broken the genetic barrier and have Crossed Brady's, Manning's, and Vick's DNA and created the perfect QB. However he is reportedly to start the year off on the practice squad and won't be activated until we are firmly out of the playoff race.

Got a link for that bit of news?

Man, if it could be swung that McNair forwards Kubes contract to Denver, then they can sing kumbuyah with Elway just like the good ol days and then the spot would be opened for Cowher and everyone in Denver West and Denver South is having a happy holiday offseason.

For the love of god, can someone please get me a working link.
The original post with the link is the correct addy, just wasn't "pasted" correctly. Try this one.

PFT linky (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/14/cowher-could-end-up-in-texas-after-all/)

Ryan
12-14-2010, 08:27 PM
To what?


The link in the OP. It does not work for me.

Lucky
12-14-2010, 08:29 PM
First, the Texans getting draft picks for Gary Kubiak???

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/6/25/rofl128589139170898009.jpg

Good Lord, that's funny!

Seems to me that McNair's franchise-crush is on the Colts. I think that's what he's modeled the team after.

Emphasis on the vertical passing game....4-3 D with undersized tackles.

That has nothing to do with McNair. He doesn't know a cover 2 from a bedspread. His crush is actually on the Steelers organization, hence the Capers hiring.

...Cowher has strengths and weaknesses. Positives: Hasn't used up good will with fanbase, instant credibility, motivator. Negatives: Won't likely have LeBeau, defense needs a lot of work, uncertain CBA situation may mean he can't work with players, and you can't just get Cowher--you'd also have to get the right personnel/GM mix because Cowher is not good at personnel evaluation.
Huh? It's not as if Colbert worked in a vacuum. I'm sure Cowher had input. Not to mention that Cowher took the Steelers to 6 playoff appearances in 8 seasons prior to Colbert showing up. The Steelers drafted a dozen Pro Bowlers from the 8 Colbert-less drafts.


I still have not read/heard a good case against Cowher as our head coach.
There's not one. If you look back at Cowher's career, the major knock was his inability to find a quality QB. Then came Big Ben. The rumored must have for Cowher to take a head coaching job is an established QB. Our guy may not be perfect, but he's established.

Pantherstang84
12-14-2010, 08:30 PM
Here.

working link (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/14/cowher-could-end-up-in-texas-after-all/)

OzzO
12-14-2010, 08:31 PM
The link in the OP. It does not work for me.

see post 160 above, it's on the previous page and you may have missed.

TEXANRED
12-14-2010, 08:41 PM
Got a link for that bit of news?

Here ya go.


Bob McNair invests in Texans future (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related/)

Ryan
12-14-2010, 08:43 PM
Much appreciated to both of you.

Pantherstang84
12-14-2010, 09:17 PM
Here ya go.


Bob McNair invests in Texans future (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related/)

Seriously. People are still pulling the Ric Rolled gag? Geez. (http://people.consolidated.net/rolisr/Media/tpirhorns.wav)

b0ng
12-14-2010, 09:20 PM
John Fox? - he's a winner? - seriously? I fail to see how a coach who has had 3 winning seasons out of 10 as a HC (none of them back to back) and is about to get run out of town leaving behind the #1 draft pick is the guy to fix the Texans.

I see Marvin Lewis and John Fox as kind of the same person. Possibly a decent head coach but their respective owners/GM's have just shit all over them recently.

I don't want either one, but I can see where people get the idea that they are probably being held back by ownership.

Ckw
12-14-2010, 09:20 PM
Here ya go.


Bob McNair invests in Texans future (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=related/)

Asshole!!!! I don't think I have ever been Rick Rolled before but you got me.

TEXANRED
12-14-2010, 09:20 PM
Seriously. People are still pulling the Ric Rolled gag? Geez. (http://people.consolidated.net/rolisr/Media/tpirhorns.wav)

Yes.

Just like threads like this and fans calling out other fans for not being real fans.

Its the circle jerk of NFL fandom on the internet.

TEXANRED
12-14-2010, 09:21 PM
Asshole!!!! I don't think I have ever been Rick Rolled before but you got me.

Thanks man!:barman:

TexCanada
12-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Oh snap its the off season already?

Cowher has as much chance to be the Texans head coach as Dungy agreeing to be Cowher's D coordinator.

And while we are at it I heard that the Texans have broken the genetic barrier and have Crossed Brady's, Manning's, and Vick's DNA and created the perfect QB. However he is reportedly to start the year off on the practice squad and won't be activated until we are firmly out of the playoff race.

If our staff tried to clone Manning, Brady and Vick we would end up with a guy who has a huge forehead, a pretty boy mullet and hates dogs. Oh yeah, and he would suck at football. He would be in a hell of a lot of commercials though, so our marketing team might like that.

GNTLEWOLF
12-14-2010, 10:20 PM
Is it o.k. if I don't hold my breathe wishing for this to come true?....I mean Cower coming to Houston as the HC. I am almost positive that McNair will think Kubiak and his Kids did an outstanding job this year and Kubiak and the circus will return to Reliant yet another long miserable mediocre season...and the funny thing is there will still be people who will make excuses for this crappy consistent peformance.

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 10:29 PM
Perhaps you need to visit dictionary.com to understand how the word frugal relates to your statement that McNair wouldn't spend the kind of jack it takes to attain a coach like Cowher? From there, you can employ your keen comprehension skills to follow the evolution of your argument from page 5 to now. Oh, read... don't skim.

McNair is a patient man who understands his limits when it comes to understanding football. He isn't trying to be the GM. He seems to, rightly or wrongly, trust his football people and signs off on their schemes.

Sigh... I am often reminded why I don't bother to post much....

See here is where you need to pay attention, I never said he was frugal, not once that was your word, in fact I was implying he was cheap and there is a difference, grasshopper.

So to make clear for you, Bill Cowher WILL NOT coach the Houston Texans becasue Bob McNair is too cheap. would you like to look up that word, you go to dictionary.com if you like....

I often wonder that myself, why bother when you totally misinterpret other posters points....

BullNation4Life
12-14-2010, 10:36 PM
You can call him frugal if you'd like or you could say that he isn't committed to putting a winning product on the field. I'll let you take your pick. But don't sit here and say that he's neither one of those things or that there "is no proof", because since Kubiak and Rick Smith have gotten here this franchise has had a pure "build through the draft" mentality that I've criticized and brought up year after year in the off season, and it's bitten the Texans in the ass every single year of this regime. They've stayed pat and barely made any real moves at younger players that were still in their prime with a lot of good football left that were proven commodities in this league. They haven't gone after savvy veteran players that they could get on the cheap that still had some wheels left to burn that could have helped this team like so many others have.

Mcnair hasn't taken it upon himself to make improvements with this team through trades or free agency and has been extremely conservative where that's concerned. You can blame that on the GM, the coach, or whomever you want but it's Mcnair's responsibility to as an owner to be highly committed to putting a winning product on the field if he wants a high level of fan support and his lack of action to fill holes to make this team better says either one of the two things I've mentioned at the beginning of this post. I'm not sure which one it is, but it's one of them.

^^^^Thus the reason Bill Cowher will not coach in Houston Texas....

DexmanC
12-14-2010, 10:37 PM
i guess the question is would you rather have Fox than Kubiak next year?

Fox coached his team to a Superbowl, has less talent on his team
than Kubiak does, but gets the most out of the players
he does have. The Panthers have suffered great injuries
and bad personnel moves over the last few years.

Fox won't be without a job for long if he's let go.

JCTexan
12-14-2010, 10:50 PM
Fox coached his team to a Superbowl, has less talent on his team
than Kubiak does, but gets the most out of the players
he does have. The Panthers have suffered great injuries
and bad personnel moves over the last few years.

Fox won't be without a job for long if he's let go.

I don't care if he has less talent than Kubiak. He has coached the Panthers since 2002 so every single player on that team was placed there by his staff. If he has less talent he is one of the people to be blamed for that. I don't want Kubiak to be fired for a coach that has his team with the worst record in the NFL right now. Cowher & Gruden I can get on board for though.

JB
12-14-2010, 11:20 PM
Fox coached his team to a Superbowl, has less talent on his team
than Kubiak does, but gets the most out of the players
he does have. The Panthers have suffered great injuries
and bad personnel moves over the last few years.

Fox won't be without a job for long if he's let go.

I would love to have John Fox here... as DC.

GP
12-14-2010, 11:49 PM
I think that Bob is going to hand Kubiak his walking papers and get Cowher in here for next year. Not sure how the timing will work with the CBA ordeal, but I think Bob is ready for a change. I have absolutely nothing to back this up, just how I feel.

Was re-thinking all of this speculation.

If Kubiak leaves the Texans, I don't foresee him just jumping right into the Broncos job immediately.

I see him taking a year off. He will have just ended five years of rebuilding this team, and would face that same task in Denver. Immediately.

The only way he would go to Denver, immediately, is if he was so pissed off about getting shafted by McNair that he wanted to roll up his sleeves and get crackin' on doing to the Broncos what he did for the Texans: Rebuild a team that was in shambles and needs years of work to get back to a respectable level.

I still think there is a slim chance that things work out the way some of us are hoping they work out. It seems unlikely Kubiak would jump back into the waters ASAP after leaving the Texans. Then again, it's Denver. He has ties to the place, so the transition wouldn't be difficult.

This is all assuming that McNair would even roll the dice on such a gamble for Cowher.

I just don't think McNair has it in him to try it. In addition, McDaniels screwed up the roster so badly, I don't think Bowlen would offer draft picks for Kubiak--So I think the "trade picks for Kubiak" theory is flawed, as well.

All signs point toward "No" concerning Cowher becoming Texans HC.

TexCanada
12-15-2010, 12:02 AM
Was re-thinking all of this speculation.

If Kubiak leaves the Texans, I don't foresee him just jumping right into the Broncos job immediately.

I see him taking a year off. He will have just ended five years of rebuilding this team, and would face that same task in Denver. Immediately.

The only way he would go to Denver, immediately, is if he was so pissed off about getting shafted by McNair that he wanted to roll up his sleeves and get crackin' on doing to the Broncos what he did for the Texans: Rebuild a team that was in shambles and needs years of work to get back to a respectable level.

I still think there is a slim chance that things work out the way some of us are hoping they work out. It seems unlikely Kubiak would jump back into the waters ASAP after leaving the Texans. Then again, it's Denver. He has ties to the place, so the transition wouldn't be difficult.

This is all assuming that McNair would even roll the dice on such a gamble for Cowher.

I just don't think McNair has it in him to try it. In addition, McDaniels screwed up the roster so badly, I don't think Bowlen would offer draft picks for Kubiak--So I think the "trade picks for Kubiak" theory is flawed, as well.

All signs point toward "No" concerning Cowher becoming Texans HC.

What does Kubiak getting a job immediately have to do with Cowher being the HC here? I think its as simple as, if Bob wants Cowher, he gets him.

GP
12-15-2010, 12:16 AM
What does Kubiak getting a job immediately have to do with Cowher being the HC here? I think its as simple as, if Bob wants Cowher, he gets him.

Because McNair won't dump Kubiak like that.

I really think McNair is a sentimental fool. My goodness, look at how he babied David Carr for crying out loud! It's practically accepted as "fact" that Kubiak knew he had to give Carr another year in order for Kubiak to get the gig here.

McNair wants his conscience soothed, IMO. He wants to appear to be the league's most gracious and fatherly owner. Shuttling Kubiak to Denver is what McNair would like to do.

Remember: This franchise places a high value on IMAGE.

Texecutioner
12-15-2010, 12:22 AM
^^^^Thus the reason Bill Cowher will not coach in Houston Texas....

I agree with what you're saying theory about Cowher not wanting to coach for a cheap owner that won't spend any money. That's the exact reason why he didn't take the job in Buffalo. He was about to coach there last season and almost took the job, but the owner's verbal lack of commitment to spending any money made him pass on that. Cowher has been wanting to coach and he's just looking for what he thinks is the right situation in a lot of ways, and he's being very smart by doing that. Another reason why I want this guy so much. Cowher simply isn't some dumbass that's going to set himself up for failure and he won't do that with his team either.

Now as far as MCnair goes, his lack of actions as far as spending money to make this team better and to build a winner might lead you to believe that he's cheap and you might be right about that, OR it might be because Rick Smith and Kubes have convinced and persuaded him into this strict build through the draft policy that we hear about. We don't really know who is the main culprit in all of that out of the three. What we do know is that this team's lack of action in free agency and in trades is the act of a "cheap team." Whose game plan it is to operate that is anyone's guess.

You'd think that any GM would be begging his owner to spend money and to make all sorts of moves as it would make his job easier and his results easier for success.

If Cowher were to come though, Mcnair would possibly vow to spend money to become competitive and take a new approach if a new HC like Cowher with a proven track record would convince him of it or a slick GM like a Darryl Morey type could dumb it down for Mcnair to understand why it's important to constantly build your team to improve instead of staying pat.

Texecutioner
12-15-2010, 12:30 AM
Because McNair won't dump Kubiak like that.

I really think McNair is a sentimental fool. My goodness, look at how he babied David Carr for crying out loud! It's practically accepted as "fact" that Kubiak knew he had to give Carr another year in order for Kubiak to get the gig here.

McNair wants his conscience soothed, IMO. He wants to appear to be the league's most gracious and fatherly owner.

And this is the part that scares me the most about this guy as an owner here. With that type of mentality winning a SB is about as tough as hitting the lotto or finding two needles in a hay stack. You simply can't have that type of attitude of being the good guy all of the time and being the sweet grandpa of the staff and the fans. At some point a full commitment to winning at all costs has to ensue.

Remember: This franchise places a high value on IMAGE.

And this is the part that scares me about this fan base in Houston more than anything. Fans here seem to care more about image and having a classy country club organization than they do actually winning and achieving greatness in this sport. It's not just on Mcnair when he's still filling the stadium up with a 5-8 record and fans are screaming their heads off like they're cheering for God's team or something. At some point fans in this city need to stop tolerating weakness and mediocrity and embracing "tough love" and an intolerable attitude towards this same shit we've been fed for two pathetic regimes now. We have to many fans here that were happy about last night just because we made it a close game and almost won. A change of attitude and grit as for expectations needs to happen here instead of this "aw shucks it's okay, we fought hard" attitude.

TexCanada
12-15-2010, 12:33 AM
Because McNair won't dump Kubiak like that.

I really think McNair is a sentimental fool. My goodness, look at how he babied David Carr for crying out loud! It's practically accepted as "fact" that Kubiak knew he had to give Carr another year in order for Kubiak to get the gig here.

McNair wants his conscience soothed, IMO. He wants to appear to be the league's most gracious and fatherly owner. Shuttling Kubiak to Denver is what McNair would like to do.

Remember: This franchise places a high value on IMAGE.

I see what you mean, but in your scenario Kubiak is choosing not to work. If he has the choice then in no way could that reflect poorly on the Texans.

None of us know Bob on a personal level, but I would have to think that even he has his breaking point. He must be pretty damn close to it with this coaching staff. I don't really but into all this "Bob is cheap" talk. I agree that he is not a huge fan of risk, but I think Cowher provides a fairly low amount of risk. The only risk is that he likely commands a much bigger salary then other, not as popular coaches.

I have one question to those people who think that Bob isn't willing to spend the money on Cowher. Do you think Bob would rather have a stand-up guy like Cowher for a large salary, or a relatively unknown personality for a smaller salary as our next HC? Sure, those aren't the ONLY 2 options for a HC, but I would think Bob would more willing to spend the money on getting a product he knows more about.

Brisco_County
12-15-2010, 02:01 AM
I've given this prospect a thorough and honest look many times this year, and all the conditions are right for this to happen. I don't even think the lockout would stop it. My money is on Cowher coming to Houston.

beerlover
12-15-2010, 02:37 AM
Because McNair won't dump Kubiak like that.

I really think McNair is a sentimental fool. My goodness, look at how he babied David Carr for crying out loud! It's practically accepted as "fact" that Kubiak knew he had to give Carr another year in order for Kubiak to get the gig here.

McNair wants his conscience soothed, IMO. He wants to appear to be the league's most gracious and fatherly owner. Shuttling Kubiak to Denver is what McNair would like to do.

Remember: This franchise places a high value on IMAGE.

pretty spot on. the people who keep bringing these things up are only increasing their own frustrations, ain't gonna happen :barman:

GNTLEWOLF
12-15-2010, 03:32 AM
I've given this prospect a thorough and honest look many times this year, and all the conditions are right for this to happen. I don't even think the lockout would stop it. My money is on Cowher coming to Houston.

I can't tell you how much I wish you were right, but to make that move is so out of character for McNair. I would be the most surprised person in Texas if that happened....I'd be very happy, but surprised nonetheless.:doot:

TEXANRED
12-15-2010, 07:25 AM
Cowher is not coming to Houston unless McNair finds someone to take Kubiak's salary.

McNair is a business man first, and as long as season tickets continue to sell, and we sell out every single game along with making boat loads of money off merchandise, there is no reason for McNair to make a change.

97roc
12-15-2010, 08:09 AM
Cowher is not coming to Houston unless McNair finds someone to take Kubiak's salary.

McNair is a business man first, and as long as season tickets continue to sell, and we sell out every single game along with making boat loads of money off merchandise, there is no reason for McNair to make a change.

That being said, is there any possibility of Kubiak and McNair coming to agreement to have him released from his contract. If Kubiak knew Denver was a sure thing would he accept a release? We play at mile high in 2 weeks, it will be interesting to know if Bowlen and McNair have a conversation about Kubiak...

Kimmy
12-15-2010, 09:52 AM
From Marc Vandemeer twitter --

Texansvoice

@texansvoice John McClain now on Sports Radio 610: Forget about Cowher. Kubiak likely not going anywhere

link (http://twitter.com/Texansvoice)

Thorn
12-15-2010, 09:55 AM
From Marc Vandemeer twitter --



link (http://twitter.com/Texansvoice)

I think most of us expect Kubiak to be back next year, it's just we don't want that.

Texans_Chick
12-15-2010, 09:57 AM
I've never read that Cowher is not good at talent evaluation. Where is the meat of that claim?

All I know is that his head coaching resume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cowher) is impressive:



I find it hard to believe that a head coach with this resume can't evaluate talent.

The rest of the negatives mentioned don't concern me:

Won't likely have LeBeau - I have little doubt that Cowher could attract other solid DCs. LeBeau is great, but not the only good DC in the league.

defense needs a lot of work - This is reality regardless of who is the head coach.

uncertain CBA situation may mean he can't work with players - So the 2011 season is a wash, but I'd expect it to be with a new head coach even without a labor situation. Hiring a new head coach is another long-term comittment so expectations of 2011 should be tempered accordingly.

I still have not read/heard a good case against Cowher as our head coach.

I'm working up something now on this for the blog. The PFT report suggested that Cowher would work with Rick Smith for first draft. I don't know where he got that idea but if it is something other than made up, I want no part of that.

I do know that McNair has repeatedly admired how the Steelers do there business. And I've heard that McNair and Cowher get along well.

I would hope that 2011 isn't a lost season. Time is running out for Andre Johnson.

Do not take my post as being anti-Cowher. But I also think that people shouldn't ink Cowher in as savior either. He came into a great situation with the Steelers with a great personnel guy, one that is under contract with the Steelers for the next 5 years.

I do not think that Kubiak's issues have been one of motivation because his players certainly play hard for him. I think it partially inherent issues with the way the Texans evaluate and draft players and free agents. There are few situations where name coaches get out of coaching for a while and come back and do just as well as they did the first time. There's Parcells but there are some noted failures too--guys who got more power the second time and didn't use it wisely.

I think Kubiak would have had more success if he had an experienced proven GM to work with who didn't think it was a spectacular idea to field a baby secondary on the field or could pick an proven defensive coordinator. Or who didn't overvalue each draft pick that they chose.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-15-2010, 10:06 AM
From Marc Vandemeer twitter --



link (http://twitter.com/Texansvoice)



Josh McDaniels wasn't gonna get fired either.

TheCD
12-15-2010, 10:06 AM
Cowher is not coming to Houston unless McNair finds someone to take Kubiak's salary.

McNair is a business man first, and as long as season tickets continue to sell, and we sell out every single game along with making boat loads of money off merchandise, there is no reason for McNair to make a change.

A Championship?


I don't care who we are talking about...there is no owner in the NFL that doesn't want to win a Super Bowl, and is only out to make money. Nobody.

SheTexan
12-15-2010, 10:24 AM
I think Kubiak would have had more success if he had an experienced proven GM to work with who didn't think it was a spectacular idea to field a baby secondary on the field or could pick an proven defensive coordinator. Or who didn't overvalue each draft pick that they chose.


Bingo!! Most of us have been pretty hard on Kubiak simply because he's the "coach." BUT, RS calls the shots, and I have my doubts Kubiak can do much to override him. Kubiak does call the plays on the field though, and he SUCKS at that sometimes! I just don't think Cowher would make those kind of stup*d calls. JMO!

I think we all know that when all is said and done, lockout or not, Kubiak will be back next year along with the rest of the defensive coaching staff. Whoever made the decision to stick with the "baby secondary" is the one who needs to be fired. I'm not sure that was Kubiak. RS needed to get his money's worth, and he failed miserably!! A lot goes on behind closed doors that never ends up in the media, and that's just a the way big business works. Maybe we should be looking for a new GM!

GP
12-15-2010, 10:35 AM
Josh McDaniels wasn't gonna get fired either.

Also: I don't exactly think McClain is the "inside informer" he thinks himself to be.

Sounds like he is stating his opinion, which is going around a lot lately.

dalemurphy
12-15-2010, 10:43 AM
I'm working up something now on this for the blog. The PFT report suggested that Cowher would work with Rick Smith for first draft. I don't know where he got that idea but if it is something other than made up, I want no part of that.

I do know that McNair has repeatedly admired how the Steelers do there business. And I've heard that McNair and Cowher get along well.

I would hope that 2011 isn't a lost season. Time is running out for Andre Johnson.

Do not take my post as being anti-Cowher. But I also think that people shouldn't ink Cowher in as savior either. He came into a great situation with the Steelers with a great personnel guy, one that is under contract with the Steelers for the next 5 years.

I do not think that Kubiak's issues have been one of motivation because his players certainly play hard for him. I think it partially inherent issues with the way the Texans evaluate and draft players and free agents. There are few situations where name coaches get out of coaching for a while and come back and do just as well as they did the first time. There's Parcells but there are some noted failures too--guys who got more power the second time and didn't use it wisely.

I think Kubiak would have had more success if he had an experienced proven GM to work with who didn't think it was a spectacular idea to field a baby secondary on the field or could pick an proven defensive coordinator. Or who didn't overvalue each draft pick that they chose.


Do you think this comes from Rick Smith? I would love to be a fly on the wall during the off-season and during camp... Who ultimately fought for Frank Okam? who wanted Jacques Reeves cut? who decided last off-season that Nick Ferguson, Barber, EWilson, and rookie Nolan were adequate to enter the season at safety?

I love Kubiak and would like to place the blame elsewhere but it is my impression that he is a disaster when it comes to evaluating the talent on his team. I can't believe that Rick Smith has ordered him to continue to play Kareem Jackson at CB and not to let Molden on the field, regardless of what happens... Then, after Jason Allen is signed, Rick Smith gave Kubiak the okay to pull Jackson and replace him with Allen. Surely it was Kubiak's decision to put Cushing at MLB and have Bentley play SLB... clearly, a huge mistake in retrospect. I also think it was Kubiak's decision to promote Frank Bush instead of looking outside the organization for another coordinator. And, the greates testament to Kubiak's blindness, is his insistence to continue to have Steve Slaton returning kickoffs. We are in week 14 and he is still trying to make that disaster happen. How much evidence does he need to pull the plug on that project?


All that being said, I can not deny that a stronger and better GM may have a positive impact on a lot of those issues/decisions... I just don't think the problem originates with the GM. I think Kubiak's relationship with his players has a significant impact on how he views their play.

Dishman
12-15-2010, 10:44 AM
From Marc Vandemeer twitter --



link (http://twitter.com/Texansvoice)


Isn't Vandemeer basically a mouthpiece for the club? It'd be like expecting an Astros scoop from Alyson Footer. I don't expect these people to break anything right up until it's about to happen.

Either way, I doubt Cowher comes here. See this for what it is... The chase for Cowher is just like these Texans games.

Step 1: Things start off terribly
Step 2: Things swing in the Texans favor
Step 3: Hearts are ripped out after yet ANOTHER c*ck-tease.

That's all this is going to be - a c*ck-tease that ends badly, leaves people dissapointed and Kubiak in place.

Just like most Sundays.

Mr. White
12-15-2010, 10:52 AM
I think most of us expect Kubiak to be back next year, it's just we don't want that.

That's about the size of it.

Anyone with any common sense knows it's time to make a change. Like I said earlier in the thread, the Pittsburgh writer is probably speculating because he sees the same thing we all see.

......a coach that has been given enough time to get a system in place and the players in place to run the system. And the coach is still clueless on how to get that team to beat the upper echelon teams. Without that ability, forget about the playoffs.

Any NFL beat writer with any common sense recognizes when a coach has reached a point that he can't take a team any further. Any NFL fan with any knowledge of the game knows that team when they see it.

Everyone that doesn't have some kind of personal attachment to Gary Kubiak sees it. If Bob McNair doesn't see it, then that means there's a personal attachment and he doesn't know how to quit Gary.

If McNair wants to run a business on his personal feelings, then he's in the wrong business.

steelbtexan
12-15-2010, 10:53 AM
And this is the part that scares me the most about this guy as an owner here. With that type of mentality winning a SB is about as tough as hitting the lotto or finding two needles in a hay stack. You simply can't have that type of attitude of being the good guy all of the time and being the sweet grandpa of the staff and the fans. At some point a full commitment to winning at all costs has to ensue.



And this is the part that scares me about this fan base in Houston more than anything. Fans here seem to care more about image and having a classy country club organization than they do actually winning and achieving greatness in this sport. It's not just on Mcnair when he's still filling the stadium up with a 5-8 record and fans are screaming their heads off like they're cheering for God's team or something. At some point fans in this city need to stop tolerating weakness and mediocrity and embracing "tough love" and an intolerable attitude towards this same shit we've been fed for two pathetic regimes now. We have to many fans here that were happy about last night just because we made it a close game and almost won. A change of attitude and grit as for expectations needs to happen here instead of this "aw shucks it's okay, we fought hard" attitude.

I'm not one of these fans and yes, the /texans place more importance on image than winning. One day the fans will turn against the organization. That day cant come soon enough for me.

GP
12-15-2010, 10:56 AM
Do you think this comes from Rick Smith? I would love to be a fly on the wall during the off-season and during camp... Who ultimately fought for Frank Okam? who wanted Jacques Reeves cut? who decided last off-season that Nick Ferguson, Barber, EWilson, and rookie Nolan were adequate to enter the season at safety?

I love Kubiak and would like to place the blame elsewhere but it is my impression that he is a disaster when it comes to evaluating the talent on his team. I can't believe that Rick Smith has ordered him to continue to play Kareem Jackson at CB and not to let Molden on the field, regardless of what happens... Then, after Jason Allen is signed, Rick Smith gave Kubiak the okay to pull Jackson and replace him with Allen. Surely it was Kubiak's decision to put Cushing at MLB and have Bentley play SLB... clearly, a huge mistake in retrospect. I also think it was Kubiak's decision to promote Frank Bush instead of looking outside the organization for another coordinator. And, the greates testament to Kubiak's blindness, is his insistence to continue to have Steve Slaton returning kickoffs. We are in week 14 and he is still trying to make that disaster happen. How much evidence does he need to pull the plug on that project?


All that being said, I can not deny that a stronger and better GM may have a positive impact on a lot of those issues/decisions... I just don't think the problem originates with the GM. I think Kubiak's relationship with his players has a significant impact on how he views their play.

Exactly.

Are we to believe that Rick Smith has made ALL of these roster decisions?

So there's a puppet master pulling Kubiak's strings? How in the world would an owner even begin to allow a GM to dictate to a head coach what to do and how to do it, etc.? The laundry list of the actual roster depth chart and how players have been used, IMO, can only be the result of Kubiak. He's the coach. Is he working with the Gm to find and acquire players? Yes. But there is zero chance that Rick Smith is sending a memo to Kubiak and telling him who to play, etc.

The Steve Slaton thing reeks of the Kris Brown thing. It's a pattern.

This guy, Kubiak, is a train wreck and too predictable with everything.

Mr. White
12-15-2010, 11:13 AM
Now it's Rick Smith's fault that Kubiak is a loser?

Anybody that makes that reach is going to need shoulder surgery.

Kubiak hired Rick Smith and now he's working for him? How does that happen?

CretorFrigg
12-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Do you think this comes from Rick Smith? I would love to be a fly on the wall during the off-season and during camp... Who ultimately fought for Frank Okam? who wanted Jacques Reeves cut? who decided last off-season that Nick Ferguson, Barber, EWilson, and rookie Nolan were adequate to enter the season at safety?

Am I the only one who immediately thought of Miley Cyrus when he said that?

But I agree with you. Rick Smith is a part of the problem. He needs to go. His apathy and lack of action has royally screwed this team over. Also, if you refer back to the previous drafts throughout Rick Smith's tenure with the Texans, you'll realize that many of his draft picks are what others deem to be "busts."

In 2007, Rick Smith drafted:
1. Amobi Okoye
2. Jacoby Jones
3. Fred Bennet
4. Brandon Harrison
5. Brandon Frye
6. Kasey Studdard
7. Zac Diles

2008:
1. Duane Brown
2. Antwuan Molden
3. Steve Slaton
4. Xavier Adibi
5. Frank Okam
6. Dominique Barber
7. Alex Brink (really?)

And the list goes on. How many of those players are quality starters? Heck, how many of those players are still in the NFL?

ETA: Please fire Rick Smith.

GP
12-15-2010, 11:24 AM
The Texans should just let the fans call the plays.

Somebody had that idea awhile back.

Give us clickers and let us vote on each play. Then it gets sent to Schaub's ears. Win.

Double Barrel
12-15-2010, 11:27 AM
Asshole!!!! I don't think I have ever been Rick Rolled before but you got me.

Right click > properties to verify the link. Always works for me. ;)

The only way he would go to Denver, immediately, is if he was so pissed off about getting shafted by McNair that he wanted to roll up his sleeves and get crackin' on doing to the Broncos what he did for the Texans: Rebuild a team that was in shambles and needs years of work to get back to a respectable level.

:spit: @ the thought of Kubiak being pissed of and holding a grudge!!!

Seriously, he knows that he's taken this organization for a ride, that he's been given a longer leash to fail than 99.9% of head coaches in NFL history. And his Care Bear 'awe shucks' demeanor would never be one to hold a grudge, much less be mad at Daddy Warbucks....errrr...Daddy McNair!

You're a funny guy, GP! Keep 'em coming. This forum needs the chuckles. :winky:

I think most of us expect Kubiak to be back next year, it's just we don't want that.

*sigh*

This is true. I remind myself every day, a sort of mental conditioning, that Kubiak will be here in 2011 and we'll see some "bold" move for Wade as DC.

And that would make us one of those pathetic cellar dwelling teams like the Lions, whose fan base supports the team just because they exist and might scream and yell for success but the actions undermine the words because we loved and lost and now we get to tailgate for the Reliant GameDay Experience®.

I'm working up something now on this for the blog. The PFT report suggested that Cowher would work with Rick Smith for first draft. I don't know where he got that idea but if it is something other than made up, I want no part of that.

I do know that McNair has repeatedly admired how the Steelers do there business. And I've heard that McNair and Cowher get along well.

I would hope that 2011 isn't a lost season. Time is running out for Andre Johnson.

AJ is the regrettable part about this 9 year run of mediocrity. I think the dude deserves a whole lot more than he's getting, and while he's well compensated and chose to be here (much respect), there is still a part of me that wants to see him succeed - here, there, anywhere. How much longer can this cat keep his loyalty to this perpetually losing franchise? I would harbor no ill-will toward AJ if he eventually forces a trade. My own choice would be a Brady/Johnson hookup, simply because it would be a thing of beauty to behold and the most likely chance for AJ to get a ring for his HoF career.

I'm not big on a Rick Smith & anyone scenario. I think McNair needs to completely clean house if he goes the firing route (which I don't think he will for a variety of reasons). But I'm not impressed with Smith, and this last off-season of "going young in the secondary" soured my opinion of his football acumen, and honestly, that's such an epic fail that he's just as big a loser as the rest of this franchise, IMO. Kick his ass out with Gary as far as I'm concerned.

Very cool to read that McNair and Cowher get along, but it is only wishful thinking about it developing into anything meaningful.

Do not take my post as being anti-Cowher. But I also think that people shouldn't ink Cowher in as savior either. He came into a great situation with the Steelers with a great personnel guy, one that is under contract with the Steelers for the next 5 years.


I don't think Cowher, or anyone else not named Bill Parcells, is a savior.

However, I do think he's a proven commodity and has a successful history of head coaching. And the Steelers are obviously a solid organization who refused to overpay for primadonnas and expects up-and-coming players to fill in the ranks and succeed when veterans decide to follow the magic rainbow to payday. Cowher teaches fundamentals, has an attention to detail that I'm just not seeing with a Kubiak-led team. Simply things like solid tackling can often make the difference between wins and losses, and this kind of focus on the basic is why I'm a big Cowher fan. That and a sense of grit, attitude, and accountability that I'm not perceiving with our current HC.

I do not think that Kubiak's issues have been one of motivation because his players certainly play hard for him. I think it partially inherent issues with the way the Texans evaluate and draft players and free agents. There are few situations where name coaches get out of coaching for a while and come back and do just as well as they did the first time. There's Parcells but there are some noted failures too--guys who got more power the second time and didn't use it wisely.

I think Kubiak would have had more success if he had an experienced proven GM to work with who didn't think it was a spectacular idea to field a baby secondary on the field or could pick an proven defensive coordinator. Or who didn't overvalue each draft pick that they chose.

This is where speculation gets us into trouble. "Motivation" is a tricky thing, especially when this team seems to come out flat at the beginning of games and has to dig a hole before they start performing with success. These players are professionals, so they could be as motivated by the millions that they stand to make and the future of their careers than for any given coaching staff.

And we really just don't know how much of a balance of power there is between Kubiak and Rick Smith. Does the GM really make unilateral decisions - i.e. "going young with the secondary" - without the input of his head coach? I'm not convinced that's the case right now. We do know that Rick Smith, the unproven GM before the Texans, was a Kubiak connection, so that makes him culpable as much as Gary in my eyes.

HoustonFrog
12-15-2010, 11:29 AM
Exactly.

Are we to believe that Rick Smith has made ALL of these roster decisions?

So there's a puppet master pulling Kubiak's strings? How in the world would an owner even begin to allow a GM to dictate to a head coach what to do and how to do it, etc.? The laundry list of the actual roster depth chart and how players have been used, IMO, can only be the result of Kubiak. He's the coach. Is he working with the Gm to find and acquire players? Yes. But there is zero chance that Rick Smith is sending a memo to Kubiak and telling him who to play, etc.

The Steve Slaton thing reeks of the Kris Brown thing. It's a pattern.

This guy, Kubiak, is a train wreck and too predictable with everything.

Exactly!!

Rick Smith doesn't make the team come out flat every first half...for years now. Rick Smith doesn't waste challenges and waste timeouts. Rick Smith doesn't force a coach not to deviate from a gameplan just because it is the way Gary likes doing things. Rick didn't force Gary to take a friend as D Coordinator.

The reason why the national audience finds the Texans franchice "bumbling" is because after 5 years and getting no better there is still the idea of "patience." 2 years ago there was a poll or thread on this board where people expressed their concern for Kubes and what lay ahead. A majority said the next year had to be a jump..playoff or bust. They went 8-8 and people made excuses saying the Texans were a few breaks away from winning. The same poll/thread question was asked again and AGAIN a majority said playoffs or a large improvement(11-5 but miss out because of tough teams) and they had to run the table to go 9-7. Again, people made excuses and said they were so close and the next year was it. This offseason..same poll/thread and the resounding call was "THIS has to be it, no excuses." Here we are at 8-8 AT BEST and people are already making excuses. It's laughable. Einstein said “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” This place is insane.

CretorFrigg
12-15-2010, 11:32 AM
Exactly!!

Rick Smith doesn't make the team come out flat every first half...for years now. Rick Smith doesn't waste challenges and waste timeouts. Rick Smith doesn't force a coach not to deviate from a gameplan just because it is the way Gary likes doing things. Rick didn't force Gary to take a friend as D Coordinator. This is a joke.

So Rick Smith doesn't do anything? He's not responsible for the players on the field? He doesn't sign our FAs? What DOES he do then?

It goes hand-in-hand. Rick Smith AND Gary Kubiak needs to go.

HoustonFrog
12-15-2010, 11:37 AM
So Rick Smith doesn't do anything? He's not responsible for the players on the field? He doesn't sign our FAs? What DOES he do then?

It goes hand-in-hand. Rick Smith AND Gary Kubiak needs to go.

Right!

I didn't say Rick doesn't do anything. I don't think he is a great GM. I just don't think blame for how a product comes out and plays or how it is prepared is on him.

steelbtexan
12-15-2010, 11:40 AM
I see what you mean, but in your scenario Kubiak is choosing not to work. If he has the choice then in no way could that reflect poorly on the Texans.

None of us know Bob on a personal level, but I would have to think that even he has his breaking point. He must be pretty damn close to it with this coaching staff. I don't really but into all this "Bob is cheap" talk. I agree that he is not a huge fan of risk, but I think Cowher provides a fairly low amount of risk. The only risk is that he likely commands a much bigger salary then other, not as popular coaches.

I have one question to those people who think that Bob isn't willing to spend the money on Cowher. Do you think Bob would rather have a stand-up guy like Cowher for a large salary, or a relatively unknown personality for a smaller salary as our next HC? Sure, those aren't the ONLY 2 options for a HC, but I would think Bob would more willing to spend the money on getting a product he knows more about.

Uncle BoB has proven he would rather have the inexperienced guy for the smaller salary.

Proof of this was the hiring of Kubiak.

I cant root for the Texans to lose. But the only way that Kubiak loses his job is if the Texans lose their next 3 games. IMHO

Mr. White
12-15-2010, 11:44 AM
Right!

I didn't say Rick doesn't do anything. I don't think he is a great GM. I just don't think blame for how a product comes out and plays or how it is prepared is on him.

He's a GM that works for the HC.

It's the way Shanahan's done it since he took over at Denver.

steelbtexan
12-15-2010, 11:45 AM
Uncle BoB has proven he would rather have the inexperienced guy for the smaller salary.

Proof of this was the hiring of Kubiak.

I cant root for the Texans to lose. But the only way that Kubiak loses his job is if the Texans lose their next 3 games. IMHO

BTW, Rick Smith stinks at his job too. Look at his drafting track record. Pitiful is a word that comes to mind.

The Smithiak regime has run its course and they both need to go. It wont happen but it needs to happen if uncle BoB is truly commited to having a winning team.

infantrycak
12-15-2010, 11:48 AM
Uncle BoB has proven he would rather have the inexperienced guy for the smaller salary.

Proof of this was the hiring of Kubiak.

So when we see all the 1st time HC's around the league we know their owners are all cheap as well?

steelbtexan
12-15-2010, 11:50 AM
Do you think this comes from Rick Smith? I would love to be a fly on the wall during the off-season and during camp... Who ultimately fought for Frank Okam? who wanted Jacques Reeves cut? who decided last off-season that Nick Ferguson, Barber, EWilson, and rookie Nolan were adequate to enter the season at safety?

I love Kubiak and would like to place the blame elsewhere but it is my impression that he is a disaster when it comes to evaluating the talent on his team. I can't believe that Rick Smith has ordered him to continue to play Kareem Jackson at CB and not to let Molden on the field, regardless of what happens... Then, after Jason Allen is signed, Rick Smith gave Kubiak the okay to pull Jackson and replace him with Allen. Surely it was Kubiak's decision to put Cushing at MLB and have Bentley play SLB... clearly, a huge mistake in retrospect. I also think it was Kubiak's decision to promote Frank Bush instead of looking outside the organization for another coordinator. And, the greates testament to Kubiak's blindness, is his insistence to continue to have Steve Slaton returning kickoffs. We are in week 14 and he is still trying to make that disaster happen. How much evidence does he need to pull the plug on that project?


All that being said, I can not deny that a stronger and better GM may have a positive impact on a lot of those issues/decisions... I just don't think the problem originates with the GM. I think Kubiak's relationship with his players has a significant impact on how he views their play.

If there aren't major changes, I will renew my season tickets but I wont be going to the games. I cant stand putting myself through the incompetent crap that I'm seeing on the field every week.

Mr. White
12-15-2010, 11:51 AM
Uncle BoB has proven he would rather have the inexperienced guy for the smaller salary.

Proof of this was the hiring of Kubiak.

I cant root for the Texans to lose. But the only way that Kubiak loses his job is if the Texans lose their next 3 games. IMHO

Don't know if it's proof. I don't remember any other coaching candidates on the market that year that had much HC experience.

IIRC, Sean Payton was on the market that year. I don't think he ever got an interview here. I know, hindsight's 20-20.

ubecool454
12-15-2010, 11:55 AM
My prediction is that early on Cowher will consistently indicate that another team is likely his first choice over the Texans by a fairly wide margin - primarily because the Texans recruiting effort is uninspired. Over the last half of the selection process, the Texans PR/Marketing machine led by Bob and Cal McNair crank their efforts up to full blast. This results in the Texans gradually increasing their attractiveness to Cowher until he indicates it's a dead heat between the Texans and Team X. Bob and Cal rejoice that their efforts have gotten them back into the competition, and revert to the original recruiting efforts. Shortly after that, it will be announced that Cowher is the new GM/VP of Football Operations, and Head Coach for Team X.

Team X is the Carolina Panthers.:goodpost:

steelbtexan
12-15-2010, 11:59 AM
So when we see all the 1st time HC's around the league we know their owners are all cheap as well?

No it doesn't mean that and you know that. You just like being argumentative.

I'm just pointing out past history. It is what it is and it cant be changed.

VTexan
12-15-2010, 12:05 PM
The Texans should just let the fans call the plays.

Somebody had that idea awhile back.

Give us clickers and let us vote on each play. Then it gets sent to Schaub's ears. Win.

must.....spread.....rep..



Daryl Morey for GM?

gary
12-15-2010, 12:15 PM
I am pretty sure if one goes they all go.

houstonspartan
12-15-2010, 12:18 PM
If there aren't major changes, I will renew my season tickets but I wont be going to the games. I cant stand putting myself through the incompetent crap that I'm seeing on the field every week.

So, you will renew your tickets, but you won't go to the games? That doesn't make any sense. If there are no major changes, I will NOT renew my tickets, period.

steelbtexan
12-15-2010, 12:28 PM
It's an investment and a bad one at that.

I'm holding out hope that I will recoup some of my $$$$. one day.

When this team hires somebody that can make the team a perenial SB contender.

GP
12-15-2010, 12:32 PM
:spit: @ the thought of Kubiak being pissed of and holding a grudge!!!

Seriously, he knows that he's taken this organization for a ride, that he's been given a longer leash to fail than 99.9% of head coaches in NFL history. And his Care Bear 'awe shucks' demeanor would never be one to hold a grudge, much less be mad at Daddy Warbucks....errrr...Daddy McNair!

You're a funny guy, GP! Keep 'em coming. This forum needs the chuckles. :winky:

You're actually saying that you think Gary Kubiak is aware of what he has done; that he has fleeced us all? LOL.

Now THAT is worth a chuckle. You're assigning some character traits that aren't there, IMO.

Gary Kubiak, via roster decisions and personnel maneuvering (i.e. Keeping Kris Brown all season AND allowing him to compete with rackers, as well as keeping a stinking failure like Slaton at the kick returner position for so long) is proving that he is one of many things:

1. Prideful. He wants HIS guys to be proven to have been a right choice.

2. Loyal to a fault. He wants HIS guys to be proven to have been a right choice.

3. Arrogant. He wants HIS guys to be proven to have been a right choice.

4. Stubborn. He wants HIS guys to be proven to have been a right choice.

5. Ignorant of the obvious. He wants HIS guys to be proven to have been a right choice.

6. Incapable of thinking outside the box. He wants HIS guys to be proven to have been a right choice.

See a pattern, DB?

The guy is 100% convinvced that he's doing the right thing. If he gets let go from Houston, after having toiled all those years at making our offense credible for the first time in franchise history, AND there is an opening at Denver...well, it would be a pretty natural transition to go and show his stuff again.

He doesn't think he's done anything wrong. To the contrary, this is a man who thinks he's got "it." And he's either going to work like a mad man in Denver to prove it, or he's going to say "To hell with it, I'm going fishing and can coach later."

He certainly wouldn't take an o-coord job in Denver. Been there, done that. He ain't doing that in Denver again. But HC? Hmmm....:thinking:

This is all, as we remind ourselves, dependent upon lots of miracles happening. The biggest miracle of all? McNair deciding to end the Kubiak era here. Fromt here on out, it would require other smaller miracles: Cowher coming here, and Denver wanting Kubiak as HC.

I don't think this has a snowball's chance in Hell of working out for us. But Kubiak most certainly doesn't think he's been given "too much of a leash.' I think he's under the impression that he doesn't have a leash at all. It's more along the lines of one of those perimeter systems where a dog can roam and gets shocked if he gets to close to the wire.

GP
12-15-2010, 12:37 PM
By the way, DB, the Care Bear "Aww shucks" persona is his public face for the presser.

You don't seriously think he's like that in real life, do you?

Have you SEEN the catty looks he throws at people? Ice lasers.

He even made Rosenfels cry and slink away in shame. I mean, who does THAT? You can do that to Travis Johnson, but to SAGE?!?! Sage is like Richie from Happy Days for crying out loud. If you make Sage upset, you're a mean son of a gun. LOL.

TexanBacker93
12-15-2010, 12:49 PM
Wow where do I begin with how wrong you are. I didn't say he was frugal, I said he spends bad money on bad players. Read instead of skim. Second, BOB MCNAIR IS NOT GONNA SPEND 10-12 MILLION ON A HEAD COACH! That I did say and it is true.

He signs off on bad players and gives them bad money, name one player with star or even good caliber that they aggressively went after that did not use them to get more money from another team? Go ahead, I'll wait...

Face the facts, Texan owner is not gonna do what it takes to bring the personnel to win a Championship. He has had going on 10 years to do so, and has had 9 failures....

oh and the bold part is about the same thing so what is your damn point?

I can't think of one high $ high profile FA that has been instrumental in a team winning a Super Bowl in the past decade. Maybe the Saints with Brees last year, but a lot of teams were scared off by him because of his shoulder. Spending a lot of money on other team's players doesn't mean anything.

I agree that more talent needs to be brought in and it can't all be draft picks or it will take 3 years, but they aren't going to win by just picking up FAs either.

disaacks3
12-15-2010, 01:33 PM
From Marc Vandemeer twitter --

link (http://twitter.com/Texansvoice) McLame says lots of stuff.

Also: I don't exactly think McClain is the "inside informer" he thinks himself to be.

Sounds like he is stating his opinion, which is going around a lot lately.

He also said this morning that "Nobody knows how far apart the players / owners are regarding the new contract." Really John?? Not even the parties negotiating know? He's no longer the 'insider' he believes himself to be. great guy for stories, lousy guy at getting 'inside information'. That, or he's scared to actually print any of the good stuff anymore.

Ckw
12-15-2010, 01:36 PM
From Marc Vandemeer twitter --



link (http://twitter.com/Texansvoice)

McClain is an asshat that likes to think he is the voice of the Texans but doesn't really know the organizations' desires from his own asshole.

Hervoyel
12-15-2010, 01:36 PM
From Marc Vandemeer twitter --



link (http://twitter.com/Texansvoice)

John McClain takes a certain amount of delight I think in telling Texans fans that things they want badly aren't going to happen.

We slide into the off-season at 5-11 and Gary Kubiak's ass needs to be sent packing or that last home game is going to be one ugly scene. Bob McNair may have all the patience in the world but his customers don't. We're 5 years into this and stuck at .500 (assuming we don't lose again this year.... and nothing is safe to assume at this point) and this thing is starting to turn on Gary & Bob.

When Capers was fired there was a very similar sentiment in the air. When David Carr was replaced it was the same way. Bob doesn't like change for changes sake but he's consistently made changes when things started to get ugly. Three more losses this year and things will be decidedly ugly. Hell things are kind of ugly right now.

Ckw
12-15-2010, 01:41 PM
Right click > properties to verify the link. Always works for me. ;)

I was surfing on my iPhone using Tapatalk and didn't have that option. :)

Hervoyel
12-15-2010, 01:44 PM
I was surfing on my iPhone using Tapatalk and didn't have that option. :)


When it happens to me I just go with it, watch the whole damn thing. There are worst musical fates than being Rick-Rolled. You could be "Humpty-Humped". That's a fate worse than death.

Ckw
12-15-2010, 03:57 PM
When it happens to me I just go with it, watch the whole damn thing. There are worst musical fates than being Rick-Rolled. You could be "Humpty-Humped". That's a fate worse than death.

I was just kidding around in case no one got it. Really doesn't bother me. In fact, I think it is kind of funny.

But yes, being "Humpty-Humped" would no doubt be a fate worse than death.

TexanSam
12-15-2010, 03:59 PM
This is Lance Zierlein's reply to a comment on his blog post today. I think it's interesting and would give me some 2nd thoughts on Cowher being the HC...

Question:
Lance- How realistic is it that Cowher comes here? Its been reported by a beat writer in Pittsburg that he wants to come back and the Texans are at the top of his list.
I personally don't think McNair has the stones to make the change.
Thanks

Answer
Not sure yet on Cowher. Here are the cons: 1. Will be looking for about 10 million per year. 2. Will want total control over personnel which he didn't have in Pittsburgh. 3. Won't have Dick LeBeau as his DC in Houston. If you take Cowher and he isn't the right fit, you are stuck like Chuck for years thanks to that contract and the personnel power he will be afforded. Will he want to come to Houston? Of course I think he would want to give Houston serious consideration based on some of the core players in place as well as the way the division is starting to shape up which is to say that it is getting weaker.

HoustonFrog
12-15-2010, 04:01 PM
John McClain takes a certain amount of delight I think in telling Texans fans that things they want badly aren't going to happen.

We slide into the off-season at 5-11 and Gary Kubiak's ass needs to be sent packing or that last home game is going to be one ugly scene. Bob McNair may have all the patience in the world but his customers don't. We're 5 years into this and stuck at .500 (assuming we don't lose again this year.... and nothing is safe to assume at this point) and this thing is starting to turn on Gary & Bob.

When Capers was fired there was a very similar sentiment in the air. When David Carr was replaced it was the same way. Bob doesn't like change for changes sake but he's consistently made changes when things started to get ugly. Three more losses this year and things will be decidedly ugly. Hell things are kind of ugly right now.

So does this led to a situation wher fans need to stop showing up? I mean the only way McNair gets the point is if he sees empty seats and he is losing revenue. Loyalty by fans is one thing but doing it knowing the owner sees it as a plus makes you wonder what it might take to get his attention.

Mr teX
12-15-2010, 04:24 PM
This is Lance Zierlein's reply to a comment on his blog post today. I think it's interesting and would give me some 2nd thoughts on Cowher being the HC...

Question:


Answer

This is basically what some of us have being saying in here. It's certainly no shoe-in that if he comes here he's gonna have close to the same success he had in pittsburgh & i think too many people are taking this as a given. I'd love to see him here, but i'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.

Yeah, he's a great name, but noone really knows what went into his long tenured success in pittsburgh b/c its the only place he's been & they were a model franchise before he even got there. In addition to this, the steelers have historically been known as a tough, knock you on your ass team largely due to the type of defense they play....lebeau has been a big part of continuing to maintain that identity & they haven't missed a beat since Cowher left & whether people want to believe it or not, he will miss his HOF D. coordinator. How much will he miss him is the question.

Double Barrel
12-15-2010, 05:29 PM
Is Dick LeBeau the ONLY freakin' decent DC that can work for Cowher?

I honestly don't understand this perspective. I have no doubt that Cowher not only has many contacts for potential coordinators, but has a long list of coaches that would want to work for him.

The $10 million/year...yeah, that could be a stickler. I don't know McNair's mindset about the ceiling for head coaches, but it's got to getting higher after 9 years of suck.

And really, I don't care if it's not Cowher. I'm at the A.B.K. threshold right now.

houstonspartan
12-15-2010, 05:36 PM
John McClain takes a certain amount of delight I think in telling Texans fans that things they want badly aren't going to happen.

We slide into the off-season at 5-11 and Gary Kubiak's ass needs to be sent packing or that last home game is going to be one ugly scene. Bob McNair may have all the patience in the world but his customers don't. We're 5 years into this and stuck at .500 (assuming we don't lose again this year.... and nothing is safe to assume at this point) and this thing is starting to turn on Gary & Bob.

When Capers was fired there was a very similar sentiment in the air. When David Carr was replaced it was the same way. Bob doesn't like change for changes sake but he's consistently made changes when things started to get ugly. Three more losses this year and things will be decidedly ugly. Hell things are kind of ugly right now.

I totally agree. The same vibe that's going around now is the same vibe that was around when Capers was axed. People have reached their limit.

And, McClain can be a dismissive little asshole, can't he? He has this condescending "get over it" attitude and doesn't even listen to any one. The other day, he was talking about potential coaching changes in Charlotte and Cincinatti, and how they will be going after major coaches. When someone brought up Kubiak being fired here, he said, dismissively, "There's not a lot of coaching options out there."

Soooo....other teams will likely go after the Big Names, but when it comes to the Texans, there are no options?

I refuse to believe that Gary Kubiak is the best pro football coach in the United States. Nope. I'm not buying it.

houstonspartan
12-15-2010, 05:40 PM
[/B]

This is basically what some of us have being saying in here. It's certainly no shoe-in that if he comes here he's gonna have close to the same success he had in pittsburgh & i think too many people are taking this as a given. I'd love to see him here, but i'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.

Yeah, he's a great name, but noone really knows what went into his long tenured success in pittsburgh b/c its the only place he's been & they were a model franchise before he even got there. In addition to this, the steelers have historically been known as a tough, knock you on your ass team largely due to the type of defense they play....lebeau has been a big part of continuing to maintain that identity & they haven't missed a beat since Cowher left & whether people want to believe it or not, he will miss his HOF D. coordinator. How much will he miss him is the question.

Who gives a shit? Roll the dice. Yeah, Cowher is a gamble. But, so freaking what?

I'm sick of this freaking nervous-nelly hand wringing with this damn fan base.

wagonhed
12-15-2010, 05:42 PM
Just goes to show you can write up a page-long list of "CONS" for any head coach in the game. There is a list for Gruden, a list for Rob Ryan, and now a list for Cowher. I suppose we should just not have a head coach, since none of them are perfect and have a .1000 coaching record while performing every team function by themselves blindfolded with their hands and feet tied behind their back and starting at QB at the same time.

texanchris
12-15-2010, 05:42 PM
how much does kubiak make a year? will it be that big of a difference from Kubbiaks salary to Cowhers

houstonspartan
12-15-2010, 05:45 PM
how much does kubiak make a year? will it be that big of a difference from Kubbiaks salary to Cowhers

Cowher will defintely want some serious cash, no doubt.

But...so?

The real question is: How much is McNair making off the team? I've heard rumors that he CLEARS something like $30 million PER YEAR from the Texans.

Let that sink in.

There's a reason we're one of the most profitable sports teams on the planet.

McNair can afford anything - and anyone - he wants.

infantrycak
12-15-2010, 05:52 PM
I've heard rumors that he CLEARS something like $30 million PER YEAR from the Texans.

Let that sink in.

Then you need to chuck your rumor source. If McNair is only clearing $30 mil per year then he is a suck businessman for investing in something it would take him 23 years to recover his initial investment much less any profit and time value of money.

There's a reason we're one of the most profitable sports teams on the planet.

It isn't one of the most profitable, it is one of the most valuable. Huge difference.

houstonspartan
12-15-2010, 06:01 PM
Then you need to chuck your rumor source. If McNair is only clearing $30 mil per year then he is a suck businessman for investing in something it would take him 23 years to recover his initial investment much less any profit and time value of money.



It isn't one of the most profitable, it is one of the most valuable. Huge difference.

I'm not even going to get into this with you. But, I'll say this: $30 million a year in profits isn't terrible.

Regardless, my point stands. He can afford anyone he wants.

Blake
12-15-2010, 06:11 PM
I'm not even going to get into this with you. But, I'll say this: $30 million a year in profits isn't terrible.

Regardless, my point stands. He can afford anyone he wants.

Generally when someone doesn't want to "get into this with you" the dont end it with a rebuttal. Just sayin.

houstonspartan
12-15-2010, 06:21 PM
Generally when someone doesn't want to "get into this with you" the dont end it with a rebuttal. Just sayin.

True. Good point. After I typed that I regretted it. lol.

Kaiser Toro
12-15-2010, 07:08 PM
The Belichick corollary trumps the LeBeau curve.

Lucky
12-15-2010, 08:20 PM
I love Kubiak and would like to place the blame elsewhere but it is my impression that he is a disaster when it comes to evaluating the talent on his team. I can't believe that Rick Smith has ordered him to continue to play Kareem Jackson at CB and not to let Molden on the field, regardless of what happens... Then, after Jason Allen is signed, Rick Smith gave Kubiak the okay to pull Jackson and replace him with Allen. Surely it was Kubiak's decision to put Cushing at MLB and have Bentley play SLB... clearly, a huge mistake in retrospect. I also think it was Kubiak's decision to promote Frank Bush instead of looking outside the organization for another coordinator. And, the greates testament to Kubiak's blindness, is his insistence to continue to have Steve Slaton returning kickoffs. We are in week 14 and he is still trying to make that disaster happen. How much evidence does he need to pull the plug on that project?
Thank you, dale. I could continue on listing failings, but this is Bill Cowher's thread. But in a nutshell, Kubiak would be just dandy if:

He had a strong GM that knew talent.
Had a top DC.
Had a OC who can call plays.
Had someone who could manage timeouts and challenges.

If Kubiak needs all of that to (possibly) succeed, just how good a head coach can he ever be? Is the top priority to fix Gary Kubiak? Or fix the Houston Texans? If the answer is the latter, then the only reasonable conclusion is to dump this coach and hire a leader who is a little more self sufficient. Someone who knows the game of football. Someone who is a leader of men.

Someone like...Bill Cowher.


The Belichick corollary trumps the LeBeau curve.
I don't know what this means. But, I'm pretty sure I agree with it.

JB
12-15-2010, 08:27 PM
Thank you, dale. I could continue on listing failings, but this is Bill Cowher's thread. But in a nutshell, Kubiak would be just dandy if:

He had a strong GM that knew talent.
Had a top DC.
Had a OC who can call plays.
Had someone who could manage timeouts and challenges.

If Kubiak needs all of that to (possibly) succeed, just how good a head coach can he ever be? Is the top priority to fix Gary Kubiak? Or fix the Houston Texans? If the answer is the latter, then the only reasonable conclusion is to dump this coach and hire a leader who is a little more self sufficient. Someone who knows the game of football. Someone who is a leader of men.

Someone like...Bill Cowher.

I vote for Georgie Patton!


Oh, wait...

Has to be someone living right?

Double Barrel
12-16-2010, 11:42 AM
The Belichick corollary trumps the LeBeau curve.

I don't know what this means. But, I'm pretty sure I agree with it.

LOL! I thought the same thing about KT's post. :thumbup

Errant Hothy
12-16-2010, 12:05 PM
Not sure yet on Cowher. Here are the cons: 1. Will be looking for about 10 million per year. 2. Will want total control over personnel which he didn't have in Pittsburgh. 3. Won't have Dick LeBeau as his DC in Houston. If you take Cowher and he isn't the right fit, you are stuck like Chuck for years thanks to that contract and the personnel power he will be afforded. Will he want to come to Houston? Of course I think he would want to give Houston serious consideration based on some of the core players in place as well as the way the division is starting to shape up which is to say that it is getting weaker.

The bolded above scares the piss out of me when it comes to Cowher. There are very few coaches who can be both a succesful HC and GM. Cowher has no history as being the personnel guy, so that would be introducing a huge unknown in the scenario. I see Cowher as a guy who would need to work with a good GM, not to try and be the GM. He just does not strike me as that kind of guy, ie someone who would be succesful as HC and GM.

I'd be reluctent to give an HC total control over personnel decsions.

Kaiser Toro
12-16-2010, 03:26 PM
I don't know what this means. But, I'm pretty sure I agree with it.

LOL! I thought the same thing about KT's post. :thumbup

My absurdity level goes to 11 when the theater is open for business. All kidding aside, I like Fisher's mustache better than Cowher's.

Hervoyel
12-16-2010, 03:43 PM
The bolded above scares the piss out of me when it comes to Cowher. There are very few coaches who can be both a succesful HC and GM. Cowher has no history as being the personnel guy, so that would be introducing a huge unknown in the scenario. I see Cowher as a guy who would need to work with a good GM, not to try and be the GM. He just does not strike me as that kind of guy, ie someone who would be succesful as HC and GM.

I'd be reluctent to give an HC total control over personnel decsions.

Consider this. We are going nowhere right now. Gary Kubiak is not a good head coach. I think 5 years of mediocrity dotted with random screw ups from every possible direction has established that as undeniable.

Gary Kubiak picked our current GM. What makes any of us think he's any better at picking a GM than he has been at coaching a football team or picking players in the draft. When McNair hired Gary Kubiak he took a flyer on a first time head coach and then let him hand pick his GM who also had no history doing the job he was chosen to do.

We know that Bill Cowher is a very good head coach. 15 years in Pittsburgh have established that as undeniable.

I would rather take a chance that Bill Cowher could be a good GM than wait for Gary Kubiak to figure out how to become a good head coach while simultaneously waiting to see if Rick Smith can figure out how to be a good GM. At least if Cowher comes up short on the GM side I still have a good head coach.

Errant Hothy
12-16-2010, 03:54 PM
Consider this. We are going nowhere right now. Gary Kubiak is not a good head coach. I think 5 years of mediocrity dotted with random screw ups from every possible direction has established that as undeniable.

Gary Kubiak picked our current GM. What makes any of us think he's any better at picking a GM than he has been at coaching a football team or picking players in the draft.

We know that Bill Cowher is a very good head coach. 15 years in Pittsburgh have established that as undeniable.

I would rather take a chance that Bill Cowher could be a good GM than wait for Gary Kubiak to figure out how to become a good head coach. At least if Cowher comes up short I still have a good head coach.

I'd rather replace both the HC and the GM with people you have exhibited some ability at their respective positions, not trot out another first time HC or give somebody control of the franchise that has no expeirence drafting/signing players. As poor as Casserley was and Smith has been there is a decent chance they are both better suited to be GMs then Cowher. The problem with rolling the dice on Cowher's unproven/possibly nonexistant GM abilities is that he could hurt the team is ways that a) a coach never could and b) that will take years to recover from.

A well coached roster of bad players might be worse then a poorly coached roster of average players.