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panamamyers
12-13-2010, 01:36 PM
I decided to look at the Super Bowl winners for the past few decades.

Since 1993, when the Cowboys won the Super Bowl, 14 of the last 17 Super Bowl winners have had Hall of Fame locks as their quarterback.

Aikman, Aikman, Young, Aikman, Favre, Elway, Elway, Warner, Brady, Brady, Brady, Roethlisberger, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees.

The only three that slipped in there that are not HOF qb's were Trent dilfer, Brad Johnson and Eli Manning.

The top ten scoring defenses since 2000 are as follows:

2000 Ravens 10.3
2000 Titans 11.9
2002 Bucs 12.2
2005 Bears 12.6
2006 Ravens 12.6

So, two of the three best scoring defenses in the past decade were the reason that Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer were able to slip in.
I guess the Giants can just be chalked up as being in the right place at the right time.

My conclusion is that you need to either have a HOF qb or a defense that is one of the top 3 or 4 of the last decade in order to stand a good chance at a Super Bowl victory.

You can actually go back farther than 17 years and find the same thing.
The 1991 Redskins gave up 14/game. The 1990 Giants gave up 13.2/game. The 88 and 89 Niners both had Joe Montana.

You would have to go back to the 1987 Redskins led by Doug Williams to find another incidence where you have neither a HOF qb or a defense for the ages.

TheCD
12-13-2010, 01:42 PM
Interesting bit of info. Are you saying that we have neither and are totally boned? Or are you saying you think Matt can be the guy?

Please help clarify here because I don't think Matt is a HOF QB and I would have to be certifiable to think that our defense wasn't the polar opposite of historically good.

I may have to drink my sorrows away after work now...:barman:

eriadoc
12-13-2010, 01:43 PM
We have a QB that has a first half completion% of 58%, 6.0 YPC average, and rating of 77.7 to go with a defense that allows mathletes on the chess club to score like jocks.

Mr. Texan
12-13-2010, 01:44 PM
how about we worry about making the playoffs first before we talk about super bowls

HOU-TEX
12-13-2010, 01:53 PM
how about we worry about making the playoffs first before we talk about super bowls

Hell, I'm worried about just winning a freakin meaningful game for once. This team historically pisses the playoffs away by midseason, so there's no real reason to worry about playoffs.

God! I'm becoming a "hater" and I hate it!

Blake
12-13-2010, 01:55 PM
I think a HOF QB and historically great defense all come from the top down. You dont just acquire them. You build them and make them what we are.

It all stems from ownership and coaching.

ThaShark316
12-13-2010, 02:10 PM
LMAO so if Big Ben retired today, he's a LOCK?!?!? Child Please.

Brees is iffy as hell if he quit tomorrow morning.

And I like how you used 1993 and after.

1991 and 1990 couldn't be reached for comment huh?

GP
12-13-2010, 02:30 PM
Defense.

Your defense has to either be devilishly strong, or get the right breaks at the right times, or both. Probably both.

I think once the playoffs hit, any team can win it.

Which is why THIS Texans team creates such animosity among its fans: We can get to the playoffs, but we can't get to the playoffs.

And don't expect ANY of the media's talking heads to choose the Texans as any sort of favorite next year. That ship has sailed. As of THIS season.

Not that they shape the future or anything, with their predictions, but it does mean that people take them less seriously. The "potential" description they tag us with? Gone. And a lot of fans here, if the Kubiak train still chugs along in 2011, will also be done with forecasting good things for the team.

Except the Potential Crowd. They'll hold firm that Kubiak is juuuust about to get things calibrated and tweaked and adjusted to juuuust the right setting for us to totally dominate in 2011. Was that tacky? Sorry. It's true. And I'm grumpy from knowing that I will watch my team get beat tonight (along with watching the Jags seize their opportunities by beating the Raiders yesterday).

Some teams find a way to move forward. Some teams find a way to let others move forward. 'Tis the season for giving.

panamamyers
12-13-2010, 02:31 PM
LMAO so if Big Ben retired today, he's a LOCK?!?!? Child Please.

Brees is iffy as hell if he quit tomorrow morning.

And I like how you used 1993 and after.

1991 and 1990 couldn't be reached for comment huh?

I mentioned all the way back to 1987.

The Giants with Eli are the only team since 1987 Redskins to have neither a HOF qb or a defense that was one for the ages and still win the Super Bowl.

The 1990 Giants and 1991 Redskins both gave up 14 or less which would be leading the league by a nice margin this year.

Schaub is not a HOF qb.
My point is this. If you don't have a HOF qb, then you need to be actively looking for one. Either that or hope and pray that the pieces fall in place for you to have a historically dominant defense and then hope for the best.


Brees has thrown for more yards than Steve Young and has the same number of Super Bowls. If he retired today he would be a lock. Roethlisberger is a lock assuming no injuries and even a mediocre career arc from here on out. He has two Super Bowls.

And yeah I just want to get to the playoffs too. Shooting for the Super Bowl though and falling just a bit short will still get you to the playoffs.

JCTexan
12-13-2010, 03:08 PM
I mentioned all the way back to 1987.

The Giants with Eli are the only team since 1987 Redskins to have neither a HOF qb or a defense that was one for the ages and still win the Super Bowl.

The 1990 Giants and 1991 Redskins both gave up 14 or less which would be leading the league by a nice margin this year.

Schaub is not a HOF qb.
My point is this. If you don't have a HOF qb, then you need to be actively looking for one. Either that or hope and pray that the pieces fall in place for you to have a historically dominant defense and then hope for the best.


Brees has thrown for more yards than Steve Young and has the same number of Super Bowls. If he retired today he would be a lock. Roethlisberger is a lock assuming no injuries and even a mediocre career arc from here on out. He has two Super Bowls.

And yeah I just want to get to the playoffs too. Shooting for the Super Bowl though and falling just a bit short will still get you to the playoffs.

I agree with Shark. Brees is one of the best QB's right now but I don't think he would be a lock if he retired after this year. If Roethlisberger made the HOF it would have to be because of how many Super Bowls he won. If he's a HOF QB you would have to think Schaub is too right now. Roethlisberger has only thrown for over 4000 yards once in his career (he won't get there this year). Brees has done it five times for comparison. If you want to hand out HOF because of how many Super Bowls he's won you might as well let Dilfer, Johnson & Eli in as well.

stingray
12-13-2010, 03:15 PM
Roetheslberger is not a lock for the hall of fame. He has been a good QB but not great. He played terrible in the first super bowl. And those Steelers teams were known for their defense and timely offense.

b0ng
12-13-2010, 03:20 PM
And don't expect ANY of the media's talking heads to choose the Texans as any sort of favorite next year. That ship has sailed. As of THIS season.



I don't know if you're trying to kid yourself or what, but you know as well as I do that any team that isn't a total dumpster fire (Hell, even ones that are, some people called for the ****ing Raiders to make the playoffs this past summer) will get picked as a "trendy" and "sexy" "Dark Horse" pick. Almost any team that drafts after the first pick in the draft in 2011 will have one sports writer somewhere talking them up in the offseason.

The Texans are no different. They'll still have their offensive pieces in place and it's going to be mighty difficult (Not that the Texans aren't up to the task mind you) to be even worse on defense than what they've been this year.

Trust me, somebody will pick them, some of us will laugh, others will believe. No way will I believe it till they do it, but I'm one person out of hundreds of millions.

stingray
12-13-2010, 03:21 PM
Roethlisberger is a lock assuming no injuries and even a mediocre career arc from here on out. He has two Super Bowls.


Jim Plunkett also won two superbowls and hasn't sniffed the HOF.

Norg
12-13-2010, 03:22 PM
But to get 2 the dance u dont need none of that

Cardinals
Seahawks
Philly
Carolina
Raiders

were are at the big dance

Mr teX
12-13-2010, 03:27 PM
umm why is this even a thread topic? They are the best teams from their respective years so of course they're going to have 1, the other or both. Still doesn't change the fact that even if you don't have either, you can still make it there & even win it.

Thorn
12-13-2010, 03:32 PM
how about we worry about making the playoffs first before we talk about super bowls

Yep. And before we can talk about playoffs we have to put an end to our annual four game losing streak in the middle of the season. This team still has a ways to go.

ThaShark316
12-13-2010, 03:35 PM
How bout "the only way you get to the Super Bowl is if you get 53 guys that will do anything they can to get there".


The real story is: You need any and every break you can get to even make the got damn PLAYOFFS, let alone the Super Bowl. You can have 53 average players, but if they all sell out for the coach, play solid ball in all 3 phases of the game, and make plays...not to mention, get a little bit of luck, you can do whatever you want.

panamamyers
12-13-2010, 03:59 PM
Plunkett played for 16 years and passed for 25,000 yards. Roethlisberger has nearly that many yards in 7 seasons.
Plunkett never made a Pro Bowl. Plunkett never threw for over 3,000 yards in a season. Roethlisberger has done that four consecutive seasons coming into this year.

The reason that everyone knows that Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and did not make the HOF is because it is such an anomaly.

Brees I think is even more of a lock than Ben. Brees is a 4 time pro bowler, has thrown for more yards than Steve Young, has won a Super Bowl, has the third highest yards/game average in the history of the NFL. I don't see any way at all you keep him out, even if he retired today.

The whole point of this thread is that neither of these conditions describe the Texans.
If we intend to keep our current qb, then we damn well better come up with a defense that can hold the opposition to 14 or less every game if we want to meet the goal of winning a Super Bowl, which should be the goal of every single person in the organization.

Blake
12-13-2010, 04:33 PM
Roetheslberger is not a lock for the hall of fame. He has been a good QB but not great. He played terrible in the first super bowl. And those Steelers teams were known for their defense and timely offense.

Yeah. Roethlisberger only won Super Bowls cause their defenses.

Signed,
Lynn Swann

ThaShark316
12-13-2010, 04:40 PM
Yeah. Roethlisberger only won Super Bowls cause their defenses.

Signed,
Lynn Swann

It's true.

Signed,
The Seahawks 10 points in SB XL and James Harrison's INT for TD

stingray
12-13-2010, 04:43 PM
Yeah. Roethlisberger only won Super Bowls cause their defenses.

Signed,
Lynn Swann

Roethlisberger stats for super bowl XL.

9-21, 123 yrds, 0 Td's, 2 INT's

Steelers defense allowed 10 points.

Who in your opinion won that game?

nero THE zero
12-13-2010, 04:45 PM
Brees has thrown for more yards than Steve Young and has the same number of Super Bowls. If he retired today he would be a lock. Roethlisberger is a lock assuming no injuries and even a mediocre career arc from here on out. He has two Super Bowls.

So, what you're saying is, to win a Super Bowl you need a HOF QB, but to be a HOF QB, you need to win the Super Bowl?

ChampionTexan
12-13-2010, 04:52 PM
So, what you're saying is, to win a Super Bowl you need a HOF QB, but to be a HOF QB, you need to win the Super Bowl?

http://www.patentcopyrighttrademarkblog.com/Exploding%20head-thumb-250x267.jpg

Blake
12-13-2010, 04:53 PM
It's true.

Signed,
The Seahawks 10 points in SB XL and James Harrison's INT for TD

Roethlisberger stats for super bowl XL.

9-21, 123 yrds, 0 Td's, 2 INT's

Steelers defense allowed 10 points.

Who in your opinion won that game?

I never said that Ben won the game. I was pointing out the flaw in yalls argument that Ben would not make it to the HOF.

stingray
12-13-2010, 04:56 PM
I never said that Ben won the game. I was pointing out the flaw in yalls argument that Ben would not make it to the HOF.

And I never said that he won't make it. I am just arguing that people say he is a lock. He might make it but he is not a lock at this point.

JCTexan
12-13-2010, 05:51 PM
Plunkett played for 16 years and passed for 25,000 yards. Roethlisberger has nearly that many yards in 7 seasons.
Plunkett never made a Pro Bowl. Plunkett never threw for over 3,000 yards in a season. Roethlisberger has done that four consecutive seasons coming into this year.

The reason that everyone knows that Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and did not make the HOF is because it is such an anomaly.

Brees I think is even more of a lock than Ben. Brees is a 4 time pro bowler, has thrown for more yards than Steve Young, has won a Super Bowl, has the third highest yards/game average in the history of the NFL. I don't see any way at all you keep him out, even if he retired today.

The whole point of this thread is that neither of these conditions describe the Texans.
If we intend to keep our current qb, then we damn well better come up with a defense that can hold the opposition to 14 or less every game if we want to meet the goal of winning a Super Bowl, which should be the goal of every single person in the organization.

Every year Schaub has been a member of the Texans he has been right there with Roethlisberger in yards thrown. He has more yards this year, had more yards last year & only had 1200 less yards in 07 & 08 (258 less in 08 & 913 less in 07) despite playing in nine less games due to injuries. So what exactly is Schaub lacking compared to Roethlisberger despite Super Bowl victories (isn't that a team accomplishment anyway?). Schaub has 13,143 yards thrown since becoming a member of the Texans. Roethlisberger has 13,119 yards thrown since 2007. Schaub has missed ten games (5 in 07, 5 in 08) in that span while Roethlisberger has missed 6 games (1 in 07, 1 in 09 & 4 this year)

panamamyers
12-13-2010, 06:51 PM
Marino is a hall of fame qb with no super bowl. Fouts and moon are too. It's not a pre-requisite but it certainly helps. If you win two of them and otherwise have abgwry good career then it's a done deal. If you win one like brees and otherwise have an exceptional career it's also a done deal.

Schaub puts up a lot of nice numbers but the main number that accentuates that for the great ones is the win/loss %

JB
12-13-2010, 06:53 PM
Marino is a hall of fame qb with no super bowl. Fouts and moon are too. It's not a pre-requisite but it certainly helps. If you win two of them and otherwise have abgwry good career then it's a done deal. If you win one like brees and otherwise have an exceptional career it's also a done deal.

Schaub puts up a lot of nice numbers but the main number that accentuates that for the great ones is the win/loss %



Damn, still learning a new word every day after all these years...lol

wagonhed
12-13-2010, 07:13 PM
Take Roethlisberger out of the HOF category, but put the Steelers back in for the awesome defense category. If Roethlisberger can do it than so can Schaub.

Norg
12-13-2010, 11:42 PM
Maybe we got two Future HOF QB on our bench right now

Hell Matt L and DanO both look like two Younger Matt Schaub CLones IMO

panamamyers
12-15-2010, 12:45 PM
Sorry, I was typing the last post from the game on my phone.

I just think Schaub falls more in the Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson, Jon Kitna type of quarterback. It's not impossible to win a Super Bowl with one of those guys as your quarterback. I just don't think you quit looking for your franchise quarterback when you have Brad Johnson or Jon Kitna starting for you. He's more of a filler until you can really find you a championship caliber qb to build around.

There are certain things that Roethlisberger does that gets them to win games. Yes, he has an excellent defense. He also is a gamer. He keeps plays alive with his scrambling ability. He's a leader. Not every is black and white and can be seen on paper. That's why they are called intangibles.

Roethlisberger is 8-2 in the playoffs. He has an 87.2 rating and 223.9 yds/g.
Aikman is 11-5 in the playoffs. He has an 88.3 rating and 240.6 yds/g.
Elway is 14-8 in the playoffs. He has a 79.7 rating and 225.6 yds/g.
Favre is 13-11 in the playoffs. He has a 86.3 rating and 244 yds/g.
Brady is 14-4 in the playoffs. He has an 85.5 rating and 228.2 yds/g.

Roethlisberger didn't just sit back and chill while the defense won all of those playoff games. His numbers are comparable to other post-season stalwarts.

Dilfer on the other hand was 5-1, but had a 66 rating and 161.8 yds/g.
Brad Johnson was 4-4, with a 62.8 rating and 175.4 yds/g.
Similarly, Eli M. is 4-3, with a 77.6 rating and 185.3 yds/g.

I am not ready to put Ben in the same category as those that rode luck or defense to SB victories.

JCTexan
12-15-2010, 01:28 PM
Sorry, I was typing the last post from the game on my phone.

I just think Schaub falls more in the Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson, Jon Kitna type of quarterback. It's not impossible to win a Super Bowl with one of those guys as your quarterback. I just don't think you quit looking for your franchise quarterback when you have Brad Johnson or Jon Kitna starting for you. He's more of a filler until you can really find you a championship caliber qb to build around.

There are certain things that Roethlisberger does that gets them to win games. Yes, he has an excellent defense. He also is a gamer. He keeps plays alive with his scrambling ability. He's a leader. Not every is black and white and can be seen on paper. That's why they are called intangibles.

Roethlisberger is 8-2 in the playoffs. He has an 87.2 rating and 223.9 yds/g.
Aikman is 11-5 in the playoffs. He has an 88.3 rating and 240.6 yds/g.
Elway is 14-8 in the playoffs. He has a 79.7 rating and 225.6 yds/g.
Favre is 13-11 in the playoffs. He has a 86.3 rating and 244 yds/g.
Brady is 14-4 in the playoffs. He has an 85.5 rating and 228.2 yds/g.

Roethlisberger didn't just sit back and chill while the defense won all of those playoff games. His numbers are comparable to other post-season stalwarts.

Dilfer on the other hand was 5-1, but had a 66 rating and 161.8 yds/g.
Brad Johnson was 4-4, with a 62.8 rating and 175.4 yds/g.
Similarly, Eli M. is 4-3, with a 77.6 rating and 185.3 yds/g.

I am not ready to put Ben in the same category as those that rode luck or defense to SB victories.

But you compare Schaub with those same QB's... He's fifth in the league in passing YPG this year, despite having the #7 ranked rushing attack in the league. The other top five QB's don't have a top ten rushing attack, thus most of their teams yards are coming through the air. You compare Schaub with guys who averaged less than 200 yards per game in the playoffs, yet Schaub has been averaging 267 YPG so far this year. He has had four games that he had less than 200 yards throwing this year, in three of those games Arian Foster went nuts rushing the ball (231 yards vs Indy, 133 vs Oak, 143 vs Ten). I don't think it is necessary to replace a QB that is top five in passing behind QB's like Manning, Rivers & Brees, do you?

stingray
12-15-2010, 01:37 PM
How would Roethlisberger have performed with the Texans since 2004? And How would Matt Schaub have performed with the Steelers since 2004? Both QB's got drafted the same year. Texans, perenial bottom three defense in the League. Steelers, perenial top three defense in the league.

Mr teX
12-15-2010, 02:50 PM
Sorry, I was typing the last post from the game on my phone.

I just think Schaub falls more in the Jeff Garcia, Brad Johnson, Jon Kitna type of quarterback. It's not impossible to win a Super Bowl with one of those guys as your quarterback. I just don't think you quit looking for your franchise quarterback when you have Brad Johnson or Jon Kitna starting for you. He's more of a filler until you can really find you a championship caliber qb to build around.

There are certain things that Roethlisberger does that gets them to win games. Yes, he has an excellent defense. He also is a gamer. He keeps plays alive with his scrambling ability. He's a leader. Not every is black and white and can be seen on paper. That's why they are called intangibles.

Roethlisberger is 8-2 in the playoffs. He has an 87.2 rating and 223.9 yds/g.
Aikman is 11-5 in the playoffs. He has an 88.3 rating and 240.6 yds/g.
Elway is 14-8 in the playoffs. He has a 79.7 rating and 225.6 yds/g.
Favre is 13-11 in the playoffs. He has a 86.3 rating and 244 yds/g.
Brady is 14-4 in the playoffs. He has an 85.5 rating and 228.2 yds/g.

Roethlisberger didn't just sit back and chill while the defense won all of those playoff games. His numbers are comparable to other post-season stalwarts.

Dilfer on the other hand was 5-1, but had a 66 rating and 161.8 yds/g.
Brad Johnson was 4-4, with a 62.8 rating and 175.4 yds/g.
Similarly, Eli M. is 4-3, with a 77.6 rating and 185.3 yds/g.

I am not ready to put Ben in the same category as those that rode luck or defense to SB victories.

I can go with that....still doesn't mean he can't be a guy that can lead you to multiple SB's. I also agree that he isn't the long term answer, but i'll ask you, since schaub has been here, what qb could we have gotten in the draft or otherwise that is light years better than him? Please don't say matt cassel or Josh Freeman b/c schaub beat Cassel head to head, & Freeman hasn't proven jack in the NFL yet.

The only guy i can think of that has a decent body of work in the NFL to look at & we might've had a shot at in the draft b/c he fell in the 1st is Aaron Rodgers. But i'm not sure if we had schaub yet & if this is the case, then we haven't missed out on anything & we did ok .........at least in that regard.

edit...I guess you can say we could've went after Drew Brees, but hindsight is a mofo & if we'd gambled on him & that shoulder never quite healed....

infantrycak
12-15-2010, 04:44 PM
The only guy i can think of that has a decent body of work in the NFL to look at & we might've had a shot at in the draft b/c he fell in the 1st is Aaron Rodgers. But i'm not sure if we had schaub yet & if this is the case, then we haven't missed out on anything & we did ok .........at least in that regard.

Aaron Rodgers was drafted in 2005. Schaub came here in 2007.

To the above comparison.

Brad Johnson - 2 seasons QB rating over 90 (highest 92.9 - not consecutive)
Jon Kitna - 0 seasons QB rating over 90 (highest 88.7 - this year in relief)
Jeff Garcia - 4 seasons QB rating over 90 (highest 97.6 - 2nd year in league)

Matt Schaub - 3 seasons of 4 as a starter QB rating over 90 (highest 98.6 - all consecutive)

Yeah good call on comparing Schaub to those guys. The only one that isn't laughable is Garcia.

Texanmike02
12-15-2010, 08:55 PM
Plunkett played for 16 years and passed for 25,000 yards. Roethlisberger has nearly that many yards in 7 seasons.
Plunkett never made a Pro Bowl. Plunkett never threw for over 3,000 yards in a season. Roethlisberger has done that four consecutive seasons coming into this year.

The reason that everyone knows that Plunkett won 2 Super Bowls and did not make the HOF is because it is such an anomaly.


There are two things that children shouldn't be allowed to handle. Guns and calculators.

OK. Look, I'm impressed that you were able compare the two but your lack of historical perspective is laughable. It is right in line with the reason I read your posts just like I read the chronicle.

Let me give you a little perspective. Do you know how many SB winning QBs threw for 3000 yards between 1971 and 1978? ZERO. If you don't throw for 3000 yards you're a bum. For most of Plunketts career if you threw for 3000 yards you were just short of a deity. Fran Tarkenton had exactly 2 3000 yard seasons in 17 years, Len Dawson never had 3000, Bradshaw had 2... and only 5000 more career yards (in 2 fewer seasons) than Plunkett.

To compare Ben to Plunkett, in Ben's first seven years he has had more passing yards than the mean starter twice. Plunkett did it 5 times in his first five years. Roethlisberger was Trent Dilfer for his first superbowl win. Plunkett was the man in his.

As for why people talk about Plunkett, its not because he's an anomaly its because he was great. He wasn't great because he was incredibly talented, which he was, he was great because he kept rising from the ashes. My uncle talks about him (he hates the Raiders btw) not because he's an anomaly, but because it is a great injustice. It is how he was viewed... and how his rebirths seemed endless.

The story you tell with your numbers is misleading and hopefully misinformed. A word of caution... check your numbers before you go touting them.


Brees I think is even more of a lock than Ben. Brees is a 4 time pro bowler, has thrown for more yards than Steve Young, has won a Super Bowl, has the third highest yards/game average in the history of the NFL. I don't see any way at all you keep him out, even if he retired today.

The whole point of this thread is that neither of these conditions describe the Texans.
If we intend to keep our current qb, then we damn well better come up with a defense that can hold the opposition to 14 or less every game if we want to meet the goal of winning a Super Bowl, which should be the goal of every single person in the organization.

If Brees and Roethlisberger retired today they would be on the outside looking in for quite some time and rightfully so. The yardage numbers these days are inflated because the defense can do basically nothing to stop the receivers, he hasn't done it for the long haul. The reality is that you are arguing that you must have a HOF quality QB to win a superbowl or an amazing defense.

Does the name Tom Brady mean you are an instant HOF candidate? They won it his second year in the league... he came into that year with 3 attempts in the NFL. He threw a whopping 18 TD's that year for NOT EVEN 3000 yards. (14 games, but still.)

The irony of the whole thing is you are comparing and contrasting the fact that Plunkett isn't in the hall of fame as if that somehow makes him "not a SB quality QB". That is in spite of the fact that he won TWO of them.

Whether Schaub can do it remains to be seen but if you think you can just rule out Schaub... seriously.

In other news... if you want to win a championship in ANY sport... you need to have at least one phase of the game in which you are among the leagues best.

Mike

Texanmike02
12-15-2010, 09:04 PM
Roethlisberger is 8-2 in the playoffs. He has an 87.2 rating and 223.9 yds/g.
Aikman is 11-5 in the playoffs. He has an 88.3 rating and 240.6 yds/g.
Elway is 14-8 in the playoffs. He has a 79.7 rating and 225.6 yds/g.
Favre is 13-11 in the playoffs. He has a 86.3 rating and 244 yds/g.
Brady is 14-4 in the playoffs. He has an 85.5 rating and 228.2 yds/g.


You know this is an illustration of the fact that the QB rating may describe the quality of the play to a degree but has nothing to do with how much a team relies on that individual. In order of importance to the success of the team I would say it was Elway, Favre, Brady, Aikman, Roethlisberger.

Mike

panamamyers
01-23-2011, 08:53 PM
They might as well start getting Roethlisberger's bust ready for Canton.

Tonight's game was exhibit A of why he is part of the reason the Steelers are good and not just along for the ride. He made the scrambles and the passes that kept drives alive. He made the completion to clinch the game. He will probably have 3 Super Bowls in a couple of weeks. A three time Super Bowl winning quarterback that is not in the HOF would be a stretch.

Joe Texan
01-23-2011, 09:05 PM
They might as well start getting Roethlisberger's bust ready for Canton.

Tonight's game was exhibit A of why he is part of the reason the Steelers are good and not just along for the ride. He made the scrambles and the passes that kept drives alive. He made the completion to clinch the game. He will probably have 3 Super Bowls in a couple of weeks. A three time Super Bowl winning quarterback that is not in the HOF would be a stretch.

Thats Hogwash, He did nothing special but get lucky tonight:vincepalm:

Hervoyel
01-23-2011, 09:08 PM
At first glance I saw the thread title "Super Bowl Winners" and thought "This is clearly in the wrong forum".

Bob McNair's going to the Super Bowl though. He gets tickets every year.

Rapistburger was a perfect example of a guy doing exactly what he had to in order to pull out the win. In the second half the Jets turned it up but I didn't have any doubt that Pittsburgh would hold them off. That goal line stand was beautiful. Whenever the Steelers needed to turn things over to their defense you saw their defense rise to the occasion. There's no panic when they don't score on a drive. They know their defense has got the situation under control.

JB
01-23-2011, 09:26 PM
At first glance I saw the thread title "Super Bowl Winners" and thought "This is clearly in the wrong forum".

Bob McNair's going to the Super Bowl though. He gets tickets every year.

Rapistburger was a perfect example of a guy doing exactly what he had to in order to pull out the win. In the second half the Jets turned it up but I didn't have any doubt that Pittsburgh would hold them off. That goal line stand was beautiful. Whenever the Steelers needed to turn things over to their defense you saw their defense rise to the occasion. There's no panic when they don't score on a drive. They know their defense has got the situation under control.

Yeah!. And that defense makes it a lot easier for the qb to make a play here & there.

Hervoyel
01-23-2011, 09:32 PM
Yeah!. And that defense makes it a lot easier for the qb to make a play here & there.

Absolutely it does.

Plus he's willing to scramble for a first down when it's right in front of him. That always helps.

I think it's because Rapistburger isn't made of glass like Schaub and he doesn't need to worry about falling down and missing 4 weeks on every play.

Joe Texan
01-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Mods Please put this in the proper forum NFL and explain to the newbies how this board operates

devo-x
01-23-2011, 10:02 PM
Why can't Schaub rely on his defense to rise to the occasion? I hope to see Schaub become slightly more mobile next year

dream_team
01-23-2011, 10:07 PM
I'm not saying Rapistberger is a bad QB, but it sure makes his job a lot easier knowing he doesn't have to put up 30 points a game to win.

I'd like to see how Big Ben would do with a team like the Patriots, Saints, or Colts. An offense oriented team with a not so great defense. Would he rise to the occasion and be better than what everyone thought? Or would he simply be an above average QB with no super bowl wins? Someone like a Matt Schaub.

noxiousdog
01-23-2011, 10:12 PM
Phil Simms isn't in the hall of fame.

And Aikmann is in because he was the beneficiary of an incredible defense and offensive line. There's a lot of guys who could have played for those Cowboy teams, won 3 superbowls, and went to the Hall.

It takes a team. Brady, Manning, and Brees are sitting out once again. When Palamalu is out injured, Rothlesberger sits too.

HoustonFrog
01-23-2011, 10:42 PM
How would Roethlisberger have performed with the Texans since 2004? And How would Matt Schaub have performed with the Steelers since 2004? Both QB's got drafted the same year. Texans, perenial bottom three defense in the League. Steelers, perenial top three defense in the league.

I refuse to fight this fight this fight again but you CANT JUST SWAP TEAMS. Different guys in the pocket. Strength...arm, body..mobility all make a difference, Different guys at the end of games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger

Roethlisberger has been one of the most efficient passers in NFL history. He currently ranks 8th all-time in NFL passer rating (92.5), 5th in yards per attempt (8.04), and 12th in completion percentage (63.07%) among quarterbacks with a minimum of 1500 career attempts. He has the 4th highest career winning percentage (.704) as a starter in the regular season among quarterbacks with a minimum of 90 starts

Comebacks/game-winning drives in the fourth quarter/overtimeRoethlisberger set a NFL rookie record in 2004 with five comeback wins in the fourth quarter, and six game-winning drives in the fourth quarter/overtime (including one playoff game).[77][78] Roethlisberger has the most comeback wins through the first seven seasons of a player's career with 19.[79]

Last year Ben had 4,328 yds, 26 TDs and 12 ints. This year, with 4 games out because of suspension he has 3200, 17 and 5. That is pretty strong

His passer rating the last 4 years going backward is 97, 100.5, 80.1, 104.1. Not too shabby there at all. How are all these stats overrated when he then wins in big games too. That is what I'm wondering.

JB
01-23-2011, 10:44 PM
I refuse to fight this fight this fight again but you CANT JUST SWAP TEAMS. Different guys in the pocket. Differnt guys at the end of games.

And totally different guys in totally different systems.

Hervoyel
01-23-2011, 10:57 PM
Same guys getting rings year after year though. Same guys sitting at home watching the playoff games from the couch too.

JCTexan
01-23-2011, 10:59 PM
I refuse to fight this fight this fight again but you CANT JUST SWAP TEAMS. Different guys in the pocket. Strength...arm, body..mobility all make a difference, Different guys at the end of games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Roethlisberger





Last year Ben had 4,328 yds, 26 TDs and 12 ints. This year, with 4 games out because of suspension he has 3200, 17 and 5. That is pretty strong

His passer rating the last 4 years going backward is 97, 100.5, 80.1, 104.1. Not too shabby there at all. How are all these stats overrated when he then wins in big games too. That is what I'm wondering.

Ben's tough & can be clutch at times, but that defense is what wins them games imo.

If Houston had a top 5/10 defense do you think they would have been in the playoffs?

HoustonFrog
01-23-2011, 11:00 PM
And totally different guys in totally different systems.

Completely. You really have to look at the totality of circumstances. Ben Ben's stats aren't even bad numbers wise as I showed above. Love Schaub, but I don't even want to compare him here. They fit their systems and teams just like alot of guys who do in the history of the league. I mean one guy made one the best throws in the history of the SB.

HoustonFrog
01-23-2011, 11:02 PM
Ben's tough & can be clutch at times, but that defense is what wins them games imo.

If Houston had a top 5/10 defense do you think they would have been in the playoffs?

It isn't about that. It is the fact that people are trying to discount Ben's history. It is comical to me, even with stats. Houston had a top Defense for part of last season and it didn't matter. When people try to make it this simple it doesn't make sense to me. Each game is a game within a game. If the Texans D was better how do we know they wouldn't lose 10 games 14-13 ? The offense put up stats late in games when other teams were up by big points. They were stuffed in those same games for 2-3 quarters. If the game was a 7 point game do you think the other team would play D differently? Hell yes. I mean adding something like..a better defense... doesn't equate to wins necessarily. It helps. There are all kinds of variables that the Texans haven't shown they possess...starting games quick, game planning, coaching , etc.

JCTexan
01-23-2011, 11:24 PM
It isn't about that. It is the fact that people are trying to discount Ben's history. It is comical to me, even with stats. Houston had a top Defense for part of last season and it didn't matter. When people try to make it this simple it doesn't make sense to me. Each game is a game within a game. If the Texans D was better how do we know they wouldn't lose 10 games 14-13 ? The offense put up stats late in games when other teams were up by big points. They were stuffed in those same games for 2-3 quarters. If the game was a 7 point game do you think the other team would play D differently? Hell yes. I mean adding something lile..a better defense doesn't equate to wins. Their are all kinds of variables that the Texans haven't shown they possess...starting games quick, game planning, coaching , etc.

Good points. I just think having a good defense helps the offense to an extreme. Houston had one of the best running games this year (7th overall) but too many times they had to go away from it because they were down double digits. Ben having a defense that is arguably the best can only help him, while Matt having one of the worst can only hurt him. The differences in the two QB's isn't that wide imo, though Roethlisberger has proven to be clutch in huge games.

Hookem Horns
01-24-2011, 01:37 AM
Manning will be a HOF QB. Peyton has a shot too.