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View Full Version : Could Michael Vick been a Texan?


YodAa
04-05-2005, 01:08 AM
He went in the 2001 draft so if the Texan's first season been in 2001 or if Vick had gone into the 2002 draft he could have been ours, but would you have wanted him as our QB or do you prefer Carr?

ThaShark316
04-05-2005, 01:20 AM
All I'm going to say is...yeah he would have been a Texan, if he stays in college one more year.

Rosusu
04-05-2005, 01:28 AM
I think I remember him saying he is coming out of college because he didnt want to play for an expansion team, and he was already going to be the first pick. Yes he would of been a Texan if he stayed another year, no doubt about it.

D-ReK
04-05-2005, 01:35 AM
I remember reading something a while back (not sure where) that Casserly tried convincing Vick to go back to school for his senior year and assured him he'd be the Texans 1st pick, the face of the franchise, basically everything that David Carr is now...He declined and said he didn't want to help start up this franchise and the rest is history...

YodAa
04-05-2005, 01:36 AM
That sux but Carr is great too so it doesn't make a difference.

Rosusu
04-05-2005, 01:50 AM
Carr is good, but he is no Vick to any extent.

WildBlackBear32
04-05-2005, 02:14 AM
Carr is good, but he is no Vick to any extent.

I'm two ways with this. On one hand, DCarr is one of, if not my favorite player in the league. He's a mighty fine QB to build a franchise around because of his total package. On the other hand, I think Vick would have absolutely blew up for this team. The one problem we've had since our existance has been OLine. Vick can work around that. Put Vick in a system with AJ blazing down the field and taking a CB and safety with him...it's a scary thought.

outofhnd
04-05-2005, 02:18 AM
yea but would Vick have survived given our O-Line situation?..... unsure

Would AJ be a Pro Bowl Reciever? ....... NO

Would we be 7-9 at this point with him vs. Carr? ....... NO

Personally I am glad things ended up the way they did. As a whole wed be frustrated with him always running, we wouldnt have a vertical passing game, we would probably still be having 4 win seasons at this point, due to the fact they would game plan around him because he is still 80% a 1 dimensional running quarterback. Hes having a hardtime passing the ball in a west coast offense where the routes are shorter. imagine the difficulties hed have throwing mid range & deep ball passes. He would be a star but our offense would be a 1 man show.

Rosusu
04-05-2005, 02:33 AM
Are yall seriously saying you would rather have Carr over Vick? Carr is good, dont get me wrong, but Vick is amazing. He changes the entire game and can go for a touchdown on any play. AJ might not be a pro bowler but he sure would be good with Vick, he can block any CB and Vick has a rocket for an arm and can lauch the ball real far. Saying you would Carr over Vick is a little crazy IMO.

outofhnd
04-05-2005, 03:28 AM
Why is that crazy?

We dont have the ground attack that Atl has besides Vick who accounted for only 900 yds of that rushing attack.

Dunn accounted for 1100, and TJ accounted for 509.
as for their rushing TD's of the 20 listed. Vick had only 3 of them.
Dunn had 9, Duckett had 8.

We do not have a running game comparable to atlantas which bails Vick out of a lot of tough situations. If their RB tandem was not as effective ATL would maybe be a wildcard at best.

Passing wise 56.7% speaks for itself. the 3 wideouts in ATL combined (Price, Finneran, White) reception total was 98

AJ alone caught 79 last year. Tony gonzalez singlehandedly outperformed the ATL rec core with 102. Crumpler their TE only had 48.

ATL's Running Game and Pressure Defense in conjunction with Vick is what propelled the Falcons, Not Vick ALone.

Here given our lack of pass rush and lack of 2 starting quality RB, and our offensive system, Vick would have struggled. He would have a hard time running the ball and would commit more turnovers. Also its claimed to mention that this would also have been the year where Vick broke his leg and would be out for the year.

total yards - Vick - 3215 vs. Carr 3820
Total TDs - Vick - 17 vs. Carr 16 *all passing
Sacked - Vick 46 vs. Carr 49
Rating - Vick 78.1 vs. Carr 83.5

Now here is what Vick has that we dont that gave the Falcons a winning record.

Defense -
Sacks Atl. 48 - Hou 24
Turnovers tied at 40

Rushing Team
Yds Atl - 2672 - Hou 1882
TDs Atl - 20 - Hou 16

also the NFC was a much weaker Conference if we played in the NFC, we conceivably could have had a 10 win season.

southtexan
04-05-2005, 04:20 AM
Are yall seriously saying you would rather have Carr over Vick? Carr is good, dont get me wrong, but Vick is amazing. He changes the entire game and can go for a touchdown on any play. AJ might not be a pro bowler but he sure would be good with Vick, he can block any CB and Vick has a rocket for an arm and can lauch the ball real far. Saying you would Carr over Vick is a little crazy IMO.

Football is a TEAM sport, MV would have been a one man show, short term that would be exciting, long term I prefer DV.

scourge
04-05-2005, 04:40 AM
I, too, remember Vick saying that he was leaving early to avoid building with an expansion... so even if he did wait, he may have pulled an Elway and forced a trade.

TexansCanes
04-05-2005, 04:57 AM
i believe their were a couple of things, him not wanting to be on an expansion teams was one (i don't really blame him). he was the number one pick so he couldn't go anywhere but down and i don't think his grades were that great. he have one of these discussions every off-season. am i happier he have carr, i can't tell you yet, but he is who he have and i will support him. the rushing argument is a good one but they have alex gibbs, a mastermind when it comes to the o-line.

Football is a TEAM sport, MV would have been a one man show, short term that would be exciting, long term I prefer DV.

for most players yeah, but the difference a payton, vick and possibly LT is bigger than most. i know you will say how the defense improved and how great the running attack was, but vick is the one that gets it going. i didn't want to bring up college, but vick single-handedly lead the offense of va tech that made the sugar bowl.

TexansNeedRBin05
04-05-2005, 07:18 AM
i believe their were a couple of things, him not wanting to be on an expansion teams was one (i don't really blame him). he was the number one pick so he couldn't go anywhere but down and i don't think his grades were that great. he have one of these discussions every off-season. am i happier he have carr, i can't tell you yet, but he is who he have and i will support him. the rushing argument is a good one but they have alex gibbs, a mastermind when it comes to the o-line.



for most players yeah, but the difference a payton, vick and possibly LT is bigger than most. i know you will say how the defense improved and how great the running attack was, but vick is the one that gets it going. i didn't want to bring up college, but vick single-handedly lead the offense of va tech that made the sugar bowl.


Well will the same sense we comeout in 2001 we could have taken LT? Vick woulda been running for his live EVERY! play that first season and woulda gotten hurt no question about that but LT might have helped down the road and in the 2002 season selected David Carr/Henson/Harrington with the a 1 rounder! :thumbup

rittenhouserobz
04-05-2005, 07:50 AM
This is definitely a rehashed subject. I will make my annual Carr vs. Vick statement.

Carr is a passer. Vick is a runner. I like my QB's to pass the ball. If they want to run, then be a RB.

Carr will be passing the ball for years to come. Vick will continue to get slower with age. It is common knowledge that most players lose their footspeed quite early. As I have stated previously. Vick will not be leading a team to the SB if it is not within 7-8 years of entering the league. He may be part of a SB team, but he will not lead one. Carr will continue to become a better passer. Carr also has good footspeed for a QB. Because Carr is mainly a passer, he could lead a team to a super bowl 15 years after entering the NFL. Yes I would take Carr over Vick. For that matter, I would take Eli Manning over Vick.

LBblitz
04-05-2005, 09:39 AM
[QUOTE=rittenhouserobz]Carr is a passer. Vick is a runner. I like my QB's to pass the ball. If they want to run, then be a RB.
QUOTE]

PERIOD. yeah it sell tickets to see a QB dance around the field but all that running will eventually lead to another serious injury after another.

michaelm
04-05-2005, 10:22 AM
Vick may be considered a better QB than Carr, but I don't think the gap is very wide, they just offer different skills(NOT skillz).... I think the Texans were better served by Carr's maturity than they would've been by Vick's athleticism.

Doom Capers
04-05-2005, 10:40 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Vick is over rated? The guy has a hard time throwing the ball to anything but a tight end! If you shut down his running game, he is screwed. It would be fun to watch him try and throw td passes to Mark Bruener.

TexansTrueFan
04-05-2005, 10:41 AM
vick may be an exciting QB to watch, but all that running and getting hit will catch up with him just like it did in the 03 season. I am personally happy we have david carr, who has good mobility and can scramble but dont rely on his legs to win games and instead uses a combination of both !

Htown34s
04-05-2005, 11:02 AM
YodAa, I love your avatar!

Texansbacker
04-05-2005, 11:09 AM
It is hard to judge quarterbacks purely based on their physical skills since so much other comes into play such as personality, leadership, intelligence etc.

For my money I would take Tom Brady. Look at the winner of the last SuperBowls. Tom Brady, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner...................... and none of those guys are known for their foot speed.

Everyone says that Vick is going to change the game but that will not happen until he is so fast that he can outrun a football being shot out of a cannon and his health will always be a concern. I wonder how many hits were taken by Vick compared to less mobile quarterbacks who throw the ball away instead of run?

My money is on Carr.

Blake
04-05-2005, 11:18 AM
Am I the only one who thinks Vick is over rated? The guy has a hard time throwing the ball to anything but a tight end! If you shut down his running game, he is screwed. It would be fun to watch him try and throw td passes to Mark Bruener.

If it was as simple as that to beat Vick then why has he made it to the playoffs two years? If all they have to do is shut down the running game.

And he wouldnt have to throw the ball to Mark, he would just juke 3-4 guys and run it in.

You can think Vick is overrated. That is your opinion. But when he is on the field, he gives the Falcons a great chance to win every game.

My point is they are making it into the playoffs. And its not because of their great WR's.

TexansTrueFan
04-05-2005, 11:22 AM
If it was as simple as that to beat Vick then why has he made it to the playoffs two years? If all they have to do is shut down the running game.

And he wouldnt have to throw the ball to Mark, he would just juke 3-4 guys and run it in.

You can think Vick is overrated. That is your opinion. But when he is on the field, he gives the Falcons a great chance to win every game.

My point is they are making it into the playoffs. And its not because of their great WR's.


well if them making it to the playoffs is not because of their WRs i guess the falcons not making it to the super is BECAUSE of micheal vick. Well if its vick who wins than its vick who losses isnt much of a team with him it seems !

TheOgre
04-05-2005, 12:47 PM
I don't think Vick is overrated. They win games with him in the lineup, and they lose without him. Just look at the percentages of wins with and without him over the past 4 seasons. It is very enlightening.

Hervoyel
04-05-2005, 12:54 PM
Vick would have been a Texan. I'm happy the way it turned out however. I believe that while Vick may be more gifted physically than David Carr the Texans will go further with Carr.

blockhead83
04-05-2005, 12:54 PM
I think a big reason the Falcons made the playoffs this season is their defense. You can't argue with Vick's results though, the Falcons have shown they are a super bowl contender with him, and a door mat without him. He has a good supporting cast, but he's probably more crucial to his team than any other player in the NFL. That's a good thing for Vick, it shows how great of a player he is, it's a bad thing for the Falcons, who seem inept without one player in a 'team' sport.

Blake
04-05-2005, 01:14 PM
well if them making it to the playoffs is not because of their WRs i guess the falcons not making it to the super is BECAUSE of micheal vick.

This is the most ridiculous comment ive seen in awhile.

Alot of great players havent been in the superbowl, and will never make it to the superbowl.

rittenhouserobz
04-05-2005, 02:10 PM
If Michael Vick gets drafted by the Texans, then I could see a variation of what happened to Akili Smith. I think Vick going to Atlanta was the best for him.

Civil
04-05-2005, 03:29 PM
Vick is certainly an exciting player to watch, however I wouldn't want him leading my team for the simple fact that he's a run first QB. :thumbdown

Atlanta spent all that money bringing in Price and Vick couldn't even get him the ball. lol

YodAa
04-05-2005, 04:24 PM
YodAa, I love your avatar!
Thanks I like yours too, specially the "The Dream" part of it! I really think that if we would have had Vick we would still be in a similar place to where we are now but the cool thing about Carr is that he feels more like a leader to me and also cause he can run the ball too if he has to!( Green Bay game is a good EX)

Shamrock
04-05-2005, 04:37 PM
http://boards.atlantafalcons.com/index.php?showtopic=80536

*edit*
Apparently, that thread got deleted. What is said was that the local TV stations in Atlanta are reporting that Vick is getting sued by a lady for giving her herpes.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0405051vick1.html

Hervoyel
04-05-2005, 05:49 PM
...Vick is getting sued by a lady for giving her herpes.

Charming, absolutely charming.

I'm thinking I prefer the QB we got.

Lucky
04-05-2005, 06:22 PM
I'm thinking I prefer the QB we got.
I'm very happy with the one we have. But you have to admit it...Ron Mexico is very good football player. :)

Overalls
04-05-2005, 06:29 PM
I think I am like a lot of us. Back when Vick was still playing college ball I was hoping he would stay around for another year so we could draft him. My dislike for Vick started when he came out early because he was affraid to play for us. He was scared he would get beat up like what eventually happened to David. As it stands now I would take David Carr over Vick any day hands down. Vick is an above average RB and a bellow average QB. Sure he can throw it 80 yards down field but nobody will be around to catch it. His arm may be like a cannon but he dosen't always get it where he needs to. Also don't forget what QB led the AFC in rushing last year.

TexansCanes
04-05-2005, 07:43 PM
the reason he only throws it to his te is because price is terrible not to mention the rest of the wr. that might be one of the worst personel moves in the last couple of years, a blind man could have seen price wasn't a number one wr. i will ask a question, do you think vick would have started right away because he didn't start till years two in atl?

texan279
04-05-2005, 07:50 PM
All I know is that I am glad we have Carr and not Vick...

LiveForTheGame
04-05-2005, 08:13 PM
Michael Vick or David Carr......Carr, this is stupid!
Carr can make plays with his feet and he is a better pure passer.
But Vick is the best athlete in the league, the guy needs to play tailback!


Much like Vince Young for UT. They are amazing athletes but are playing the wrong position to get the most out of their ability.

I'd rather have Carr because he is the better fit for an NFL style passing offense. Vick has done a great job of getting to the playoffs and winning, but they need to get the passing game to work to get to and/or win a Super Bowl. Vick wouldn't have fit our offense anyway...Carr was the right pick.

outofhnd
04-05-2005, 10:47 PM
Vick would be the best QB in the league if the NFL was still running the single wing offense.

TexansTrueFan
04-05-2005, 11:32 PM
This is the most ridiculous comment ive seen in awhile.

Alot of great players havent been in the superbowl, and will never make it to the superbowl.


how do u figure its the most ridiculous ?? Sure they won a few games without the help of their recievers but the team would be much more dangerious knowing that vick is a threat on the ground and through the air, and maybe if the WRs had been involved the Falcons could have went farther in the post season last year than they did ! Thats all i was saying !

Civil
04-05-2005, 11:51 PM
the reason he only throws it to his te is because price is terrible not to mention the rest of the wr. that might be one of the worst personel moves in the last couple of years, a blind man could have seen price wasn't a number one wr. i will ask a question, do you think vick would have started right away because he didn't start till years two in atl?

Peerless is far from terrible. None of the Falcon receivers (including Crumpler or Dunn) had more than 50 receptions despite running a west coast style offense. Even the Charger WR's surpassed 50 receptions with Drew Brees at the helm. :hmmm:

Don't get me wrong, Price is certainly not worth the $7 million per and huge signing bonus, but he wasn't really given an opportunity to shine in Atlanta with Vick struggling to learn the new system.

TexansTrueFan
04-05-2005, 11:55 PM
Peerless is far from terrible. None of the Falcon receivers (including Crumpler or Dunn) had more than 50 receptions despite running a west coast style offense. Even the Charger WR's surpassed 50 receptions with Drew Brees at the helm. :hmmm:

Don't get me wrong, Price is certainly not worth the $7 million per and huge signing bonus, but he wasn't really given an opportunity to shine in Atlanta with Vick struggling to learn the new system.


i can agree with that a reciever is only as good as the QB allows him to be, and with vick at QB not to many recievers will get a chance to shine !

DoCt3rJ
04-06-2005, 12:18 AM
I'll just say this, if Vick get's his passing to atleast anything close to what Carr's is now, I would rather have him than Carr. But right now, Carr. Vick just doesen't show it yet passing wise, he's got a arm, ya, hes got accuracy, ya, but he makes alot of stupid throws, and bad passes. So we'll see... people only say hes one of the best cause he puts on the best show.

outofhnd
04-06-2005, 12:26 AM
I guess with that lawsuit I can see the Michael Vick valtrex commercials next year.

If it is true I dont think any defensive player would want to touch him let alone tackle him.

By the time Vick learns to pass as well as Carr the Texans may have already won a superbowl.

Atl's offense should be called "son of Denver" because its Denvers rushing attack. However in a conference where .500 teams were making it to the playoffs, Does Vick really need to throw the ball well? Does Vick play the patriots next year? That will be a good measuring bar.

TexansCanes
04-06-2005, 12:27 AM
price isn't terrible but he isn't a number one and doesn't know how to play like a number one wr. he is is a track star on the field, which was fine when he was with moulds. i will admit that brees had a way better season and was a better pure passer this year than vick, which would explain why the sd's wr had more than 50 catches, but their recievers didn't have more than that because it was Gates and LT. atl's run first west coast offense doesn't help receptions or one player rack up a bunch. brees also threw more passes and completed 81 more than vick.

YodAa
04-06-2005, 12:40 AM
I guess with that lawsuit I can see the Michael Vick valtrex commercials next year.

If it is true I dont think any defensive player would want to touch him let alone tackle him.

By the time Vick learns to pass as well as Carr the Texans may have already won a superbowl.

Atl's offense should be called "son of Denver" because its Denvers rushing attack. However in a conference where .500 teams were making it to the playoffs, Does Vick really need to throw the ball well? Does Vick play the patriots next year? That will be a good measuring bar.

Funny you should mention Valtrex. LOL (http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=91039&highlight=vick+experience)

outofhnd
04-06-2005, 01:01 AM
:bag:
The Michael Vick experience should have involved a contreceptive.

If he has them and they like start acting up does his status downgrade to questionable?

Vinny
04-06-2005, 02:24 PM
I'd be happy with either guy. I think both of these guys is capable of leading a Super Bowl team.

BattleRedRaider
04-06-2005, 02:29 PM
I'd be happy with either guy. I think both of these guys is capable of leading a Super Bowl team.

I agree. They both excel in different areas, but have the same motivation to lead their team.

THEFUTURE
04-06-2005, 07:55 PM
vick is a joke he is good for a couple highlights but thats it, carr is a real QB. carr is more acurate, sure vick can launch a ball, but DC throws rockets as well. vick still got sacked a good amount last year so him being able to run and avoid sacks doesnt count for much. carr is smarter and more humble, and more of a leader than vick, and vick not wanting the responsibility of leading a new franchise proves that

TexansFanInPA
04-06-2005, 11:47 PM
I personally love Carr's style. Give him a few more seasons to work out the flaws in his game and I think he'll be great. Vick is good too but basicly only in running.

Civil
04-07-2005, 01:18 AM
Imagine what must go through Arthur Blank or Jim Mora's mind each time Vick takes off running around the field relatively unprotected. :shocked

"Go, Go, GO, ack! look out! Oh damn, please get up... please... *gasp*, Oh thank God!"

chicagotexan
04-07-2005, 02:36 PM
Vick should be the spokeman for a herpe Rx. I can see it now.
Vick - "I thought my life would be ruined by the herpes, but this HerpeXassure medication eases the warts. Sure, sometimes they flare up and I still trasmit them to unsuspecting partners, but using this medication and using the alias Ron Mexico gets me through the day".
Voiceover "May cause blindness, lepracy, baldness, seizures, hullucinations, and dry mouth".

ThaShark316
04-07-2005, 04:29 PM
Vick should be the spokeman for a herpe Rx. I can see it now.
Vick - "I thought my life would be ruined by the herpes, but this HerpeXassure medication eases the warts. Sure, sometimes they flare up and I still trasmit them to unsuspecting partners, but using this medication and using the alias Ron Mexico gets me through the day".
Voiceover "May cause blindness, lepracy, baldness, seizures, hullucinations, and dry mouth".


chicagotexan = quote of the day :rofl:

Hit Em Up
04-07-2005, 09:20 PM
Ron Mexico would have taken this offense to new levels, with just his feet alone. Then again the o line gave up a **** load of sacks so he may have been in a body cast by now.

TexansFanInPA
04-08-2005, 12:16 AM
Yeah, they gave up alot of sacks. But if you watched the Texans beat the Jags, they had everything going good in that game. If they played at that caliber all the time I think they would be in atleast the playoffs every year.

outofhnd
04-08-2005, 02:33 AM
That would be a start but we would have to win against some quality oppenents.
Colts and Jets we lose to perrenially, and we shouldve beaten the playoff bound chargers.

After we start winning some against those teams. Then consider us in the playoffs every year other wise if we end up with the same record as the Jets the Jets would hold the tie breaker.

We seem to turn it on a few days then it lacks off in games we should win. like Detroit and Cleveland, I feel as though we walked into those 2 games thinking we had the victory. Kinda the same with San Antonio I didnt feel a sense of urgency from the team till midway thru the 3rd.

We turned it on in game to against Indy, then lacked off again against Denver.

twinkletwinkle
04-08-2005, 04:38 PM
I have to wonder if the Herpes will be an asset or liability to Vick. It may actually help his running ability because no one wants to tackle him. :hmmm:

chicagotexan
04-08-2005, 04:45 PM
Well now I've figured it out. This Ron Mexico business was all a ploy to get Mexicans like myself to buy Ron Mexico jerseys. Well, Mike, I mean Ron it ain't gonna work. But I still have an idea to help him improve his marketabilty - Mike Vick, he puts the TD in STD. No charge

YodAa
04-08-2005, 04:54 PM
So Vick gets herpes. Talk bout a madden curse(I know I already said this in another thread but LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!)

chicagotexan
04-08-2005, 05:21 PM
So Vick gets herpes. Talk bout a madden curse(I know I already said this in another thread but LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!)

Oh man, that's right. I think I'd rather break an arm.

YodAa
04-08-2005, 05:49 PM
Oh man, that's right. I think I'd rather break an arm.

I think hes getting double punished since the curse didn't get good 'ole Ray Lewis hard enough.

Bull Pen 1
04-08-2005, 10:13 PM
David Carr or Mick Vick. I thought this tread was between QB's not QBs and running backs.

Thank you vick, for not being our RB, I mean QB. Learn to be a qb and pass the ball.