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ThaShark316
12-07-2010, 11:41 AM
How's he been the last few weeks?

I haven't really heard his name much, if at all, the last couple games.

m5kwatts
12-07-2010, 11:44 AM
He's been our best defensive back for the most of the season IMO. He's been more than solid lately. He's not been a part of the secondary problems lately.

HOU-TEX
12-07-2010, 11:53 AM
He's been our best defensive back for the most of the season IMO. He's been more than solid lately. He's not been a part of the secondary problems lately.

It might have something to do with him not being on the field as much, no? Allen has taken a lot of his playing time recently. Best defensive back? Ha, nope, less reps gives him less of a chance to fall down or get torched by double moves

76Texan
12-07-2010, 12:24 PM
He's been our best defensive back for the most of the season IMO. He's been more than solid lately. He's not been a part of the secondary problems lately.

I agree!
I believe KJ has been our best CB from day one.
Hou-Tex just wants a pinata he can beat on from time to time! :ant:

When I have time (probably after the season), I will come back and put together all my notes for all to see, I promise (I hope I have the time).

ThaShark316
12-07-2010, 12:28 PM
It might have something to do with him not being on the field as much, no? Allen has taken a lot of his playing time recently. Best defensive back? Ha, nope, less reps gives him less of a chance to fall down or get torched by double moves

McCain falls more than Jackson. Just saying.

HOU-TEX
12-07-2010, 12:31 PM
I agree!
I believe KJ has been our best CB from day one.
Hou-Tex just wants a pinata he can beat on from time to time! :ant:

When I have time (probably after the season), I will come back and put together all my notes for all to see, I promise (I hope I have the time).

Our safety's are actually worse, but both Quin and Allen have outplayed KJ. Which is why Allen has taken playing time away from KJ, no? I mean, I know our defensive coaching sucks, but would any coach take playing time away from their "best CB"?

76Texan
12-07-2010, 12:35 PM
Our safety's are actually worse, but both Quin and Allen have outplayed KJ. Which is why Allen has taken playing time away from KJ, no? I mean, I know our defensive coaching sucks, but would any coach take playing time away from their "best CB"?

No, they are rotating them.
Remember Allen was a higher draft pick than KJ.

Quin, with his recent good plays, earns playing time (I'm sure Kubiak is from that school of thought.)

Once again, I believe that you need to watch all the details to see that KJ is a very solid player (more so than both Quin and Allen).

It was funny when I read that some posters thought the Texans roll coverage over to help him out while I saw that (on the play where Pollard almost intercept the ball in the end zone), KJ was left to defend two receivers, LOL!

HOU-TEX
12-07-2010, 12:49 PM
No, they are rotating them.
Remember Allen was a higher draft pick than KJ.

Quin, with his recent good plays, earns playing time (I'm sure Kubiak is from that school of thought.)

Once again, I believe that you need to watch all the details to see that KJ is a very solid player (more so than both Quin and Allen).

It was funny when I read that some posters thought the Texans roll coverage over to help him out while I saw that (on the play where Pollard almost intercept the ball in the end zone), KJ was left to defend two receivers, LOL!

I know they're rotating them. Which is why I said he was losing playing time to Allen. If you truly beleive they're playing Allen more due to draft status, I've got a bridge to sell ya. :worldpeace:

76Texan
12-07-2010, 01:04 PM
I know they're rotating them. Which is why I said he was losing playing time to Allen. If you truly beleive they're playing Allen more due to draft status, I've got a bridge to sell ya. :worldpeace:
Teams have got to be in their nickel a lot in the NFL.
Quin has experience in the slot.
Allen is a decent CB that went through a few coaching changes in Miami.
He doesn't have the hips to turn (therefore the shuffle or the bail technique).
Week 12 (plus the PS) is already longer than a college season.
I don't see any big deal with rotating them.

Same thing as with Duane Brown, I didn't think he should start and play all game at the beginning. But they let him, and guess what, they ended up having whatshisname spell Brown on every third series later in the season that year.

Some guy can be a freak like Cushing and can play a lot.
Hey but who knows what's the real reason there! :thinking:

(However I bet that when you rewind the tapes, you will find Cushing with hands on his hips in certain games.)

SheTexan
12-08-2010, 08:00 PM
He's been our best defensive back for the most of the season IMO. He's been more than solid lately. He's not been a part of the secondary problems lately.

Laughable!! If he's the "best" we can do we might as well forfeit the rest of the season, esp since he sure did a good job of screwing up the first 13 games!! COMPLETE waste of a first round pick!! JMO!! He is absolutely the WORST CB this team has ever had!!

ThaShark316
12-08-2010, 08:09 PM
Laughable!! If he's the "best" we can do we might as well forfeit the rest of the season, esp since he sure did a good job of screwing up the first 13 games!! COMPLETE waste of a first round pick!! JMO!! He is absolutely the WORST CB this team has ever had!!

Damn I love my sig...

Andre_Johnson
12-08-2010, 11:56 PM
Same thing as with Duane Brown, I didn't think he should start and play all game at the beginning. But they let him, and guess what, they ended up having whatshisname spell Brown on every third series later in the season that year.

Rashad Butler, he did more than "spell" Brown, he started in those 4 games while Brown was suspended.

Allstar
12-09-2010, 12:27 AM
Rashad Butler, he did more than "spell" Brown, he started in those 4 games while Brown was suspended.

No, he's referring to Ephram Salaam during Brown's rookie season.

imatexan
12-09-2010, 03:01 AM
Damn I love my sig...

Shetexan is not that far off, KJ has still has had a terrible season. Just because he has been "better" these last few games still does not amount to being close to a good NFL Cornerback.

TexCanada
12-09-2010, 03:10 AM
Shetexan is not that far off, KJ has still has had a terrible season. Just because he has been "better" these last few games still does not amount to being close to a good NFL Corner back.

Why would we possibly expect him top be a "good NFL cornerback"? You do realize he is a rookie with a terrible coaching staff right? Sure, he has made some mistakes, but what exactly were your expectations for him?

SheTexan
12-09-2010, 07:15 AM
Damn I love my sig...

Yep, you sure can, and you seem to be the #1 fan!! Now, I don't like insulting posters, and look at this board as a means of expressing an opinion, and sometimes a way of venting a lot of frustration, which we all seem to have right now. NO where in my post did I say there was not hope for KJ! I'm a firm supporter of ALL Texan players, whether I like them or not. As long as they wear a Texan jersey they are one of my "boys!" But, that does not make them all good players! KJs failure to succeed this year is a reflection on Bush/Kubiak, IMHO, and the abuse they put him through just might be the thing that will kill his career. Who knows, but, THIS YEAR, he truly sucked!!

BTW: What bowl is UT playing in this year??? Hummmm, I'm so "stup*d" I can't seem to find one listed!:um:;)

HuttoKarl
12-09-2010, 09:39 AM
Why would we possibly expect him top be a "good NFL cornerback"? You do realize he is a rookie with a terrible coaching staff right? Sure, he has made some mistakes, but what exactly were your expectations for him?

I expected an interception every time he's been thrown at and a tackle on every other play. Is that so difficult?

HOU-TEX
12-09-2010, 10:10 AM
Yep, you sure can, and you seem to be the #1 fan!! Now, I don't like insulting posters, and look at this board as a means of expressing an opinion, and sometimes a way of venting a lot of frustration, which we all seem to have right now. NO where in my post did I say there was not hope for KJ! I'm a firm supporter of ALL Texan players, whether I like them or not. As long as they wear a Texan jersey they are one of my "boys!" But, that does not make them all good players! KJs failure to succeed this year is a reflection on Bush/Kubiak, IMHO, and the abuse they put him through just might be the thing that will kill his career. Who knows, but, THIS YEAR, he truly sucked!!

BTW: What bowl is UT playing in this year??? Hummmm, I'm so "stup*d" I can't seem to find one listed!:um:;)

+ Rep from Mr. HOU-TEX

Esoom
12-09-2010, 04:29 PM
Yep, you sure can, and you seem to be the #1 fan!! Now, I don't like insulting posters, and look at this board as a means of expressing an opinion, and sometimes a way of venting a lot of frustration, which we all seem to have right now. NO where in my post did I say there was not hope for KJ! I'm a firm supporter of ALL Texan players, whether I like them or not. As long as they wear a Texan jersey they are one of my "boys!" But, that does not make them all good players! KJs failure to succeed this year is a reflection on Bush/Kubiak, IMHO, and the abuse they put him through just might be the thing that will kill his career. Who knows, but, THIS YEAR, he truly sucked!!

BTW: What bowl is UT playing in this year??? Hummmm, I'm so "stup*d" I can't seem to find one listed!:um:;)

Saying that Kareem Jackson was a waste of a pick without even letting him finish his first NFL season kind of implies that you believe there is no hope for him. And to call him the worst cornerback that the Texans have ever had when he's only played 13 professional games is laughable. He has shown improvement throughout the season, and still has a good chance of developing into a good, or at least adequate, NFL cornerback.

ChrisG
12-09-2010, 04:32 PM
I have been hard on kareem jackson this year. But hopefully he will learn and develop into a good corner. If he had sum decent help over the top I think he would b a lot better

Thorn
12-09-2010, 04:36 PM
Maybe Jackson turns out to be one of the greatest CBs in the NFL, I'm sure we'd all like that. But for now, he sucks.

silvrhand
12-09-2010, 05:52 PM
BTW: What bowl is UT playing in this year??? Hummmm, I'm so "stup*d" I can't seem to find one listed!:um:;)

LOL, best post of the week +rep!

:spin::spin::spin:

silvrhand
12-09-2010, 05:54 PM
I have been hard on kareem jackson this year. But hopefully he will learn and develop into a good corner. If he had sum decent help over the top I think he would b a lot better

yah having no safety help over the top then being asked to line up so far off the ball and then play out of position to begin with. I don't know what this secondary is being taught but I feel it's not a good technique or scheme.

There have been so many bad calls, lineups, and blown coverages.

Texanmike02
12-09-2010, 08:02 PM
Damn I love my sig...

Young, dumb and full of... well lets just say its probably not just his.

Seriously you think that much of yourself? SheTexan has forgotten more about football than you'll know.

Mike

Texanmike02
12-09-2010, 08:05 PM
Yep, you sure can, and you seem to be the #1 fan!! Now, I don't like insulting posters, and look at this board as a means of expressing an opinion, and sometimes a way of venting a lot of frustration, which we all seem to have right now. NO where in my post did I say there was not hope for KJ! I'm a firm supporter of ALL Texan players, whether I like them or not. As long as they wear a Texan jersey they are one of my "boys!" But, that does not make them all good players! KJs failure to succeed this year is a reflection on Bush/Kubiak, IMHO, and the abuse they put him through just might be the thing that will kill his career. Who knows, but, THIS YEAR, he truly sucked!!

BTW: What bowl is UT playing in this year??? Hummmm, I'm so "stup*d" I can't seem to find one listed!:um:;)

Get em'

Well except the UT part... don't hurt me like that.

Mike

thunderkyss
12-09-2010, 08:22 PM
Our safety's are actually worse, but both Quin and Allen have outplayed KJ. Which is why Allen has taken playing time away from KJ, no? I mean, I know our defensive coaching sucks, but would any coach take playing time away from their "best CB"?

I think Allen has taken KJack's snaps, to make some fans (who want to see accountability) happy.

But I don't think he's been our best CB.... I think that's been Quin. He's a baller.

Allen should have came in & replaced McCain straight up.

ThaShark316
12-09-2010, 10:40 PM
Young, dumb and full of... well lets just say its probably not just his.

Seriously you think that much of yourself? SheTexan has forgotten more about football than you'll know.

Mike

I'm wrong but McCain is worse than Jackson.

I'm wrong for saying I love my sig cuz I don't call a player the WORST CB in team history when it's his 1st season?

The hell with that bs, I'm not agreeing with that.

imatexan
12-09-2010, 10:42 PM
Why would we possibly expect him top be a "good NFL cornerback"? You do realize he is a rookie with a terrible coaching staff right? Sure, he has made some mistakes, but what exactly were your expectations for him?

I expect any player that is starting to be able to hang with the big boys and KJ has not been able to although he has shown some signs of improving.

I am not pinning this all on him, this is a coaching mistake to let him be our number one CB as a rookie in the first place.

ThaShark316
12-09-2010, 10:47 PM
I expect any player that is starting to be able to hang with the big boys and KJ has not been able to although he has shown some signs of improving.

I am not pinning this all on him, this is a coaching mistake to let him be our number one CB as a rookie in the first place.

I think a lot of factors play into it though, man.

Remember how Robinson was a target quite a bit as a rook? I remember him falling in his 1st game vs. SD that allowed a TD. Roy Williams torched him the next week.

We had much better defensive coaches, however, and that, IMO, helped him a huge deal, because by season's end, we looked at him as our best cb and our issues were more geared toward Glenn, not Dunta.

Texan_Bill
12-09-2010, 11:49 PM
It might have something to do with him not being on the field as much, no? Allen has taken a lot of his playing time recently. Best defensive back? Ha, nope, less reps gives him less of a chance to fall down or get torched by double moves

This ^^^!!! Although, I'm late to this party.

76Texan
12-10-2010, 03:59 AM
This ^^^!!! Although, I'm late to this party.

Chris Myers part deux, all I'm gonna say!:fingergun:

HOU-TEX
12-10-2010, 10:43 AM
I think Allen has taken KJack's snaps, to make some fans (who want to see accountability) happy.

But I don't think he's been our best CB.... I think that's been Quin. He's a baller.

Allen should have came in & replaced McCain straight up.

Are you serious? Man, you come up with some doozies when looking for excuses for this team. You could probably shit Battle Red Skittles from the amount of Koolaid you drink, bro

Chris Myers part deux, all I'm gonna say!:fingergun:

Without getting into this BS again. I've already mentioned Myers playing better this season, but that doesn't change my thoughts of his performance last season. Injury or not, he sucked last season.

burro
12-10-2010, 12:23 PM
KJ has been pretty terrible this year, but I would take him over Brice McCain everyday day of the week and twice on Sunday. That guy is just unsalvagable rubbish. I think KJ actually has hope for improvement under a new HC/DC. Like most of our other players he's being poorly utilized by the scheme.

Arky
12-10-2010, 12:32 PM
Wasn't KJ drafted as a junior? Probably another reason he should have not been thrown into the fire..... /hindsight

thunderkyss
12-10-2010, 12:47 PM
Chris Myers part deux, all I'm gonna say!:fingergun:

I agree. There's nothing wrong with Kareem Jackson or his play.

thunderkyss
12-10-2010, 12:48 PM
KJ has been pretty terrible this year, but I would take him over Brice McCain everyday day of the week and twice on Sunday. That guy is just unsalvagable rubbish. I think KJ actually has hope for improvement under a new HC/DC. Like most of our other players he's being poorly utilized by the scheme.

What do you see in KJack that you don't see in McCain?

burro
12-10-2010, 02:54 PM
What do you see in KJack that you don't see in McCain?

Potential. :kitten:

GP
12-10-2010, 03:07 PM
I think Allen has taken KJack's snaps, to make some fans (who want to see accountability) happy.

But I don't think he's been our best CB.... I think that's been Quin. He's a baller.

Allen should have came in & replaced McCain straight up.

Conspiracy Theory from TK.

Yeah, except the team's puppet masters have failed to do anything else this board has figured out.

Fail.

Rey
12-10-2010, 06:01 PM
Allen has taken snaps from KJ????

I have not noticed that at all...

Rey
12-10-2010, 06:03 PM
What do you see in KJack that you don't see in McCain?

Brice McCain has been awful...

I don't want to say that he can never be a good player, but I would not have him on the field unless there were a few injuries...

I am more willing to throw Molden out there, who I have not seen at all....

thunderkyss
12-10-2010, 08:42 PM
Conspiracy Theory from TK.

Yeah, except the team's puppet masters have failed to do anything else this board has figured out.

Fail.

My point is that this staff has done "things" to try to fix the problem.

Not what we'd like to see them do..... There are several opinions on this board, about what needs to be done. I wanted Cromartie, the Texans didn't like him. Several people here didn't like him.

Some folks aren't happy that we didn't go after him. Like we would win a bidding war with NY....

thunderkyss
12-10-2010, 08:46 PM
Brice McCain has been awful...

I don't want to say that he can never be a good player, but I would not have him on the field unless there were a few injuries...

I am more willing to throw Molden out there, who I have not seen at all....

No doubt, McCain has been awful, but I think he is more a true cover corner..... than KJack....


If our coaches are coaching him to play the same way they expect KJack to play..... it'll never work....... he'll look awful.

McCain played much better last year.

76Texan
12-11-2010, 12:44 AM
Without getting into this BS again. I've already mentioned Myers playing better this season, but that doesn't change my thoughts of his performance last season. Injury or not, he sucked last season.Of course, I did not miss your post when you mentioned better plays from Myers this season (your idea, not mine; since I don't see hardly any difference, the cirscumstances are different is all.)

When I finally retire for real, I will offer you (or anybody else for that matter) to sit down and go over each and every single play in the 09 season.

At least, I have made the effort to watch each and every play to see how each and evey player (as much as the camera angles allow) on both sides of the ball perform.

If you can show me that Myers suck (or KJ) as compared to their counterparts in a 16-game season, I will treat you to an honorary drink of your choice, be it a Bud Light or a Louis XIII Cognac. (I believe I've already made a similar offer.)

And then I will go on this board and admit that Myers and/or KJ suck!

If one chooses to be a casual fan or semi-serious hardcore, there are any and all kinds of goats out there to choose from, suit yourself.

But as one who learns to love the game for all the intricacies, I just have to say that people really need to do their homework.

That was what I really want to post; however, in light of sportmanship and such, let me just say that everybody is entitled to their opinion.

Just let me quote Bill Walsh:

If there's one thing that frustrates me a little bit about fans and the media, it's that they really don't - and they can't - grasp the mind-boggling and painstaking detail that go into a football game. When things go wrong, they lash out. That's their right, certainly. But I wish they could step back sometimes and look at a play that's gone awry and say, "Why didn't that work?" They need to understand the detail.

thunderkyss
12-11-2010, 05:10 PM
Just let me quote Bill Walsh:

If there's one thing that frustrates me a little bit about fans and the media, it's that they really don't - and they can't - grasp the mind-boggling and painstaking detail that go into a football game. When things go wrong, they lash out. That's their right, certainly. But I wish they could step back sometimes and look at a play that's gone awry and say, "Why didn't that work?" They need to understand the detail.

After a couple of years of Kubiak, I thought to myself, surely this man isn't as stupid as posters on this board say he is. Surely there is a reason other than Travis Johnson's draft position for him to start every game, & not even bring in competition.

So I started watching the game, particularly the DT position. I watched the Texans, I watched the Vikings, I watched every team I could, to see what was different between what TJ did, & what other DTs did.

I learned the difference between a UT (up tackle, 3Tech) (Warren Sapp, John Randle, Simeon Rice) & the NT (not really a lot of "names" here). I learned that TJ played that position about as well as anyone. There are a few notables (Kevin Williams) but not many.

No matter who we put at that position, they tend to "disappear." Granted, TJ never played like Suh, Sapp, Rice & probably never would/could..... But at NT... where Gary put him... that's about as well as you're going to see the position played.

People started griping about Myers, so I started watching him play.

I learned people are going to ***** & make stuff up... & it's no use arguing with them.

hradhak
12-11-2010, 06:10 PM
I thought KJ has been getting more time on the sideline to keep him fresh during the game.

The problem is with watching corners is that when they are good, they don't even get thrown to. It's hard to get an INT when the guy you're covering isn't thrown to. Asomugha has paltry stats this season, but that's because QBs don't even look in his direction. Watching from sidelines I've seen KJ blanket some guys and every once in a while, he gets beaten, and that's when you see his name called out. He hasn't gotten to the point where he can play every down as a lockdown corner, and so I'm glad to see him on the sidelines to watch the action to try and learn what he's doing wrong on those few plays where he is getting called out.

Rey
12-11-2010, 07:17 PM
I thought KJ has been getting more time on the sideline to keep him fresh during the game.

The problem is with watching corners is that when they are good, they don't even get thrown to. It's hard to get an INT when the guy you're covering isn't thrown to. Asomugha has paltry stats this season, but that's because QBs don't even look in his direction. Watching from sidelines I've seen KJ blanket some guys and every once in a while, he gets beaten, and that's when you see his name called out. He hasn't gotten to the point where he can play every down as a lockdown corner, and so I'm glad to see him on the sidelines to watch the action to try and learn what he's doing wrong on those few plays where he is getting called out.

It's what they should have done from the beginning. I was screaming for the team to franchise Dunta again and still draft a corner or a safety high.

otisbean
12-11-2010, 08:54 PM
After a couple of years of Kubiak, I thought to myself, surely this man isn't as stupid as posters on this board say he is. Surely there is a reason other than Travis Johnson's draft position for him to start every game, & not even bring in competition.

So I started watching the game, particularly the DT position. I watched the Texans, I watched the Vikings, I watched every team I could, to see what was different between what TJ did, & what other DTs did.

I learned the difference between a UT (up tackle, 3Tech) (Warren Sapp, John Randle, Simeon Rice) & the NT (not really a lot of "names" here). I learned that TJ played that position about as well as anyone. There are a few notables (Kevin Williams) but not many.

No matter who we put at that position, they tend to "disappear." Granted, TJ never played like Suh, Sapp, Rice & probably never would/could..... But at NT... where Gary put him... that's about as well as you're going to see the position played.

People started griping about Myers, so I started watching him play.

I learned people are going to ***** & make stuff up... & it's no use arguing with them.

Both you and 76 are correct my friends.

Rey
12-11-2010, 10:06 PM
After a couple of years of Kubiak, I thought to myself, surely this man isn't as stupid as posters on this board say he is. Surely there is a reason other than Travis Johnson's draft position for him to start every game, & not even bring in competition.

So I started watching the game, particularly the DT position. I watched the Texans, I watched the Vikings, I watched every team I could, to see what was different between what TJ did, & what other DTs did.

I learned the difference between a UT (up tackle, 3Tech) (Warren Sapp, John Randle, Simeon Rice) & the NT (not really a lot of "names" here). I learned that TJ played that position about as well as anyone. There are a few notables (Kevin Williams) but not many.

No matter who we put at that position, they tend to "disappear." Granted, TJ never played like Suh, Sapp, Rice & probably never would/could..... But at NT... where Gary put him... that's about as well as you're going to see the position played.

People started griping about Myers, so I started watching him play.

I learned people are going to ***** & make stuff up... & it's no use arguing with them.

I agree with you on this...

TJ and Meyers aren't as bad as some folks made them out to be.

They've certainly had their embarrassing moments, but they were/are not completely worthless.

IDEXAN
12-11-2010, 10:27 PM
It's what they should have done from the beginning. I was screaming for the team to franchise Dunta again and still draft a corner or a safety high.
Some might argue that one strategic decision alone should cost Kubiak his job ?

beerlover
12-12-2010, 01:28 AM
Some might argue that one strategic decision alone should cost Kubiak his job ?

I don't think ownership has any love loss for Dunta, hence has no bearing towards Kubiak.

80tothezone
12-12-2010, 10:47 PM
Laughable!! If he's the "best" we can do we might as well forfeit the rest of the season, esp since he sure did a good job of screwing up the first 13 games!! COMPLETE waste of a first round pick!! JMO!! He is absolutely the WORST CB this team has ever had!!

I think he will end up being a solid second CB but as a first CB he is a bust.... he might make an outstanding safety as he learns the D later on.... he is forced to cover the best receiver week in and week out and he is a rookie.... all that considered though I think we should move him to safety opposite pollard he is still young enough that he could make the transition and he would have the off-season to learn the D and calls...

thunderkyss
12-13-2010, 10:17 AM
I think he will end up being a solid second CB but as a first CB he is a bust.... he might make an outstanding safety as he learns the D later on.... he is forced to cover the best receiver week in and week out and he is a rookie.... all that considered though I think we should move him to safety opposite pollard he is still young enough that he could make the transition and he would have the off-season to learn the D and calls...

Rodgers-Cromartie looked worse as a rookie.

NitroGSXR
12-13-2010, 10:23 AM
Rodgers-Cromartie looked worse as a rookie.

What do you mean? He had twice as many interceptions as Kareem does right now.

IDEXAN
12-13-2010, 10:33 AM
Anybody else watchin the Pats and the Bears yesterday ? If so, aren't you more upset than ever that we took KJ in the Draft instead of Devin McCourty ? I know this is kinda childish of me to wine on about passing on that guy, but every time I see him he's lookin like All-Pro material to me in his rookie year. Kinda like Cushing was for us last year ?

drs23
12-13-2010, 10:35 AM
Anybody else watchin the Pats and the Bears yesterday ? If so, aren't you more upset than ever that we took KJ in the Draft instead of Devin McCourty ? I know this is kinda childish of me to wine on about passing on that guy, but every time I see him he's lookin like All-Pro material to me in his rookie year. Kinda like Cushing was for us last year ?

Yes. He looks really good. Has a few mentions as DROY.

HOU-TEX
12-13-2010, 11:10 AM
Of course, I did not miss your post when you mentioned better plays from Myers this season (your idea, not mine; since I don't see hardly any difference, the cirscumstances are different is all.)

When I finally retire for real, I will offer you (or anybody else for that matter) to sit down and go over each and every single play in the 09 season.

At least, I have made the effort to watch each and every play to see how each and evey player (as much as the camera angles allow) on both sides of the ball perform.

If you can show me that Myers suck (or KJ) as compared to their counterparts in a 16-game season, I will treat you to an honorary drink of your choice, be it a Bud Light or a Louis XIII Cognac. (I believe I've already made a similar offer.)

And then I will go on this board and admit that Myers and/or KJ suck!

If one chooses to be a casual fan or semi-serious hardcore, there are any and all kinds of goats out there to choose from, suit yourself.

But as one who learns to love the game for all the intricacies, I just have to say that people really need to do their homework.

That was what I really want to post; however, in light of sportmanship and such, let me just say that everybody is entitled to their opinion.

Just let me quote Bill Walsh:

If there's one thing that frustrates me a little bit about fans and the media, it's that they really don't - and they can't - grasp the mind-boggling and painstaking detail that go into a football game. When things go wrong, they lash out. That's their right, certainly. But I wish they could step back sometimes and look at a play that's gone awry and say, "Why didn't that work?" They need to understand the detail.

It's all in the eyes of the beholder, bro. I do re-watch games at times, but my spare time is much more important than analyzing each and every play of a football game. Also, we aren't in the huddle during the game and we have no clue what any individual player's assignments are during any given play. We go by assumption.

If you wish to analyze each individual play then go for it, but don't discredit people for not wanting to agree with you. Watching plays over and over does NOT make you any more knowledgable about football than me or anyone else around here. So please, spare me on the "do your homework" BS. I spent many a years training, practicing and playing football. Does that make me more knowledgable than anybody else? Nope, and I don't pretend that I am.

For now on if I disagree with your analysis of an idividual player or play, I'll agree to disagree by not replying to you. I'd appreciate it if you did the same. Thanks

76Texan
12-15-2010, 04:02 AM
It's all in the eyes of the beholder, bro. I do re-watch games at times, but my spare time is much more important than analyzing each and every play of a football game. Also, we aren't in the huddle during the game and we have no clue what any individual player's assignments are during any given play. We go by assumption.

If you wish to analyze each individual play then go for it, but don't discredit people for not wanting to agree with you. Watching plays over and over does NOT make you any more knowledgable about football than me or anyone else around here. So please, spare me on the "do your homework" BS. I spent many a years training, practicing and playing football. Does that make me more knowledgable than anybody else? Nope, and I don't pretend that I am.

For now on if I disagree with your analysis of an idividual player or play, I'll agree to disagree by not replying to you. I'd appreciate it if you did the same. Thanks

You do have a different way of thinking.
It's all cool.

76Texan
12-15-2010, 04:04 AM
Anybody else watchin the Pats and the Bears yesterday ? If so, aren't you more upset than ever that we took KJ in the Draft instead of Devin McCourty ? I know this is kinda childish of me to wine on about passing on that guy, but every time I see him he's lookin like All-Pro material to me in his rookie year. Kinda like Cushing was for us last year ?

Idexan, what did you see that make you think that way?
I just finish watching the game, and I just don't see it.
I'd like to hear your point of view first.

beerlover
12-15-2010, 04:17 AM
Idexan, what did you see that make you think that way?
I just finish watching the game, and I just don't see it.
I'd like to hear your point of view first.

he sticks to his man like glue, even in icey conditions. doesn't get turned often when he does has plus recovery speed. good ball intincts, soft hands for a db, also decent size with good tackle technique (wraps up). Idexan is only expressing what many others are already saying. The one thing he does have that Kareem does not is good saftey help over the top so he can focus more in man coverage. Texans coverage problems are more a reflection of poor saftey support in man coverage & soft zones. IMO, Kareem has inadvertantly been set-up to fail :mariopalm:

76Texan
12-15-2010, 01:37 PM
he sticks to his man like glue, even in icey conditions. doesn't get turned often when he does has plus recovery speed. good ball intincts, soft hands for a db, also decent size with good tackle technique (wraps up). Idexan is only expressing what many others are already saying. The one thing he does have that Kareem does not is good saftey help over the top so he can focus more in man coverage. Texans coverage problems are more a reflection of poor saftey support in man coverage & soft zones. IMO, Kareem has inadvertantly been set-up to fail :mariopalm:

I strongly agree with the bolded part, but other "facts" remain a debate.
I will attempt to bring the issue in a few following posts.
These posts concern only the Bears game.

McCourty played less than one half of the game, with the Bears on the field for less than 9 mins during that span.
The Pats got good plays up on the front, even though they hardly ever brought an extra man in the box.
Cutler attempted only 6 passes (3 toward McCourty).

His stats were quite very good:
3 tackles (including one for loss on a run play), 1 pass defended, and 1 force fumble.
A good day at the office.

But let's take a look at those plays.

76Texan
12-15-2010, 01:37 PM
1. On 3rd and 1 (after two run plays), the Bears attempted a run to the left (double tight-ends on this side. Actually, the FB traded place with one of the TEs: FB 86 lined up outside the TE - I just consider him the 2nd TE; the TE 82 Olsen lined up in the regualr FB spot in the straight I formation - I just consider him the FB.) Olsen was the culprit in this play (or the inside TE, depending on how one slices it.)
McCourty was the primary force and got around the edge to stop the RB Forte for a one yard loss. Good play on McCourty's part.
The Pats were in their base 3-4 defense with a 2-deep cover.
RCB on the lone receiver on the weak side, LCB McCourty near the LOS on the strong side.
(Notice the safety lined up about 5-6 yards right behind MCourty; that's protection!)
The outside TE 86 hook-blocked on the LOLB; the inside TE blocked the LDE.
The Bears pulled their RT 73 and C 57 to lead block on the outside of the 2 TEs.
The two TEs were pushed back initially (especially the inside TE), making it difficult for the RT to kick out on the LILB.
FB 82 was supposed to block McCourty (IMO; especially as we see that the RT had no intention to when McCourty went oustside.)
It even looks like the FB 82 wanted to avoid McCourty, really.
With the blocks slow to develop in front of him, Forte took a step or two more than he should have. That gave McCourty plenty of time to get there.
IMHO, this is called dancing around behind the LOS.
Needing only one yard for the first down, I think Forte should have pressed right behind the RT and C no matter what (they both missed their blocks eventually.) Forte probably didn't want to run into the back of the C 57, but still I think he needs to press the hole immediately.
McCourty did what he was instructed to do and was rewarded with a TFL due to poor blocking by the FB Olsen (or his missing of assignment.)
That ended the Bears first drive.

76Texan
12-15-2010, 01:38 PM
2. On the Bears second drive, they faced 3rd and 18 on their 14 after a sack.
McCourty, if he was KJ, would have been booed right out of Reliant Stadium as he allowed the easy first down completion to WR Knox.
The Pats went to their nickel against 3-WR set.
They bring a safety up to the Y receiver (Knox on the weak side) and dropped both CBs back into a 3-deep, 4-underneath coverage (rushing 4).
Knox simply ran a post route, up along the side line for about 12 yds and start turning toward the post, waiting for the throw.
Without worrying about techniques or anything, McCourty just had to read the QB and break on the ball (or by the receiver's movement on his route.) A 19-yd completion tells the story itself.
McCourty was not on the receiver like glue.

76Texan
12-15-2010, 01:39 PM
3. After 4 running plays and trailing by a TD, the Bears were faced with 3rd and 4 on the Pats 49.
They lined up in the bunch formation (with 3 receivers forming a triangle - one on the LOS and two trailing on either side) on their right.
Again, the Pats were in their nickel. Obviously, they rolled both safeties toward this side to help (well, the Texans are a different story; sometimes it's not obvious to their DC that it's the thing to do.)
WR 80 Bennett (most inside) ran a delayed circle route around and behind the other 2 receivers, up the side line to right around the first down marker then slanted back to the inside and looked for the ball.
With a defender raising his arm up in the air and another boring in the pocket up the middle, Cutler's hurried pass was behind and high above the back shoulder pad of the receiver.
Look how he was completely turned around trying to catch that late ball.
McCourty, sitting in his outside zone, had all the time in the world to wait for the pass.
It was, in all honesty, an easy pass to deflect from such a position, in such a route.
A decent pass in front of the receiver (toward the inside) would have brought a complete different result (a completion.)
McCourty did not have to worry about the deep route and he was helped by pressure up front.
McCourty was not on the receiver like glue. It only looks like that because the pass was way behind.

76Texan
12-15-2010, 01:39 PM
4. After another TD by the Pats, the Bears started out with the ball on their 38 with another 3-WR set from the straight-I formation (no TE).
The Pats were in cover 1 with a single safety deep and 3 DBs playing off-man on the receivers.
Up front, they were in a 4-3; however, notice that the WILL stepped to the outside, showing help to McCourty on the Y receiver # 13 Knox.
The Pats did not attack the play-action-fake-run; their LBs stayed put and read the pass all the way.
In fact, the Pats did a lot of things right.
Their 4-man pass rush managed to put pressure on Cutler from all 3 sides (against 7 blockers - 5 linemen, the FB and the RB.)
The other 2 DBs covered the X and Z receivers well, with the lone safety backing them up.
The 3 LBs crowded the middle and slowed down the Y receiver, who ran a check down pattern, a very shallow slant route through the middle of the field toward the other side (underneath the two deep receivers.)
WR Knox actually almost had to stop to avoid colliding with one of the LBs.
This gave McCourty plenty of time to catch up and follow Knox accross the field.
Due to pressure, the pass was low and behind the receiver.
Once gain, Knox had to slow down and turn back to catch the late and low short pass. This caused him to run horizontally after the catch.
As McCourty came over to make the tackle, it should have been ruled that forward progress was stopped as Knox put on the brake (looks like he wanted to make a spin move.)
Knox had only one hand on the ball as he spun around and practically sat down on the field after he took a couple of steps backward. He caught the ball near the 41 yd line and was tackled by McCourty just behind the 40-yd line and ended up on his butt just past the LOS (the 38-yd line).
McCourty did the right thing trying to wrap (at least his right arm) around the ball carrier and had his hand on the ball to pry it out, barely before Knox was ruled down. Maybe the refs thought that the receiver temporarily (very) sat down on McCourty's right foot.
It was a good play by McCourty and the call was irrelevant.
What is relevant was the fact that McCourty had helps (from pretty much all the players on defense) and that the receiver was slowed down by different things (the impeding LBs and the low/behind throw due to the pass rush.)
McCourty was not on the receiver like glue.
A Pats LB recovered and took the ball in for a TD.

76Texan
12-15-2010, 01:40 PM
5. On the Bears next drive (2nd and 11), the Pats were in 2-deep coverage against a balanced single back formation.
Cutler looked the other way where he had more weapons and fewer defenders.
The 4-man pass rush forced him to scramble, however, to McCourty's side.
Notice from the start how McCourty played the outside technique, leaving the inside for the safety to defend.
Cutler ran for 15 yds, then scooted out of bound before McCourty arrived.
McCourty's was very simple, it sure looks like.
He stayed and stayed with the receiver, not having to worry about the responsibility a secondary forceman. The nickel back got there at the same time even though he had to fight through the block while McCourty had the chance to do so (fly to the ball) sooner.
OK, on this play, he was on the receiver like glue (while he shouldn't have been).
Was he held by the receiver? Possible, but not from the camera angle that I saw.
I don't think McCourty made it back to the field after this play for some reason (with about 9 mins to play in the second quarter.)

76Texan
12-15-2010, 01:45 PM
At any rate, on any given play, McCourty's responsibilty was quite simple and clear cut.
He was asked to concentrate solely on one task and he received plenty of helps.
It was a good day for him, but I didn't see the play of DROY or All-Pro material.

To reiterate what Beerlover said, McCourty was put in a position to succeed, something that the Texans DC hasn't been doing anywhere nearly enough for KJ.

It could be said that KJ was put in a position to fail more often than neccessary. That, I agreed with Beerlover.

IDEXAN
12-16-2010, 08:39 AM
At any rate, on any given play, McCourty's responsibilty was quite simple and clear cut.
He was asked to concentrate solely on one task and he received plenty of helps.
It was a good day for him, but I didn't see the play of DROY or All-Pro material.

To reiterate what Beerlover said, McCourty was put in a position to succeed, something that the Texans DC hasn't been doing anywhere nearly enough for KJ.

It could be said that KJ was put in a position to fail more often than neccessary. That, I agreed with Beerlover.
Your attention to and grasp of the details is impressive 76Texan and I also appreciate the time & effort you took to make such a comprehensive entry. Good work man !
Being a guy with considerable bias towards one particular CB in this conversation (BSUs Kyle Wilson), I wanted the Texans to take him over either KJ, MCCourty, or FSUs Patrick Robinson. Of course the top-rated corner, Joe Hadin, was long-gone before the Texans pick rolled around.
But Wilson has also been a disappointment, since like your claims about KJ he's been put in a tough situation because what time he's played he's had little help in the Jets-Blitz happy defense. I just know Wilson looked great at the Senior Bowl, but of course he was covering college receivers and not NFL receivers.
But there's been several plays where KJ didn't appear to have the top-end speed to hang in there against the wide-out on a fly-patter or other deep route while McCourty seems to hang in there stride for stride in comparable match-ups ? You seem to be saying those plays weren't KJs fault because of the absense of safety help over top ?
So 76Texan, you still contend that KJ was the right pick for the Texans over the other corners available to them ?

BigBull17
12-16-2010, 09:03 AM
No doubt, McCain has been awful, but I think he is more a true cover corner..... than KJack....


If our coaches are coaching him to play the same way they expect KJack to play..... it'll never work....... he'll look awful.

McCain played much better last year.

...This is the guy who gave Edwards a 9 yard cushion on the 2 yard line...He has been burned repeatedly. More so than anyone else, and he played less snaps due to being the nickle back. He is awful. KJ at least makes a play between being burned repeatedly.

TheMatrix31
12-16-2010, 09:31 AM
Kareem got destroyed on a pass play, I think it was to Mason, early on in the game on Monday. He's gotten "better" but he's still sucking something massive. I have definite hopes he will mature. A rookie is a rookie, after all.

As for our WORST defensive back, well, that honor EASILY goes to Brice McCain. That guy flat out doesn't deserve to be in the LEAGUE.

At least Glover Quin has played hard and smart since his missteps earlier.

EDIT: I made this post without reading the previous four pages, so excuse me if these "points" have been made already.

76Texan
12-16-2010, 09:59 PM
Your attention to and grasp of the details is impressive 76Texan and I also appreciate the time & effort you took to make such a comprehensive entry. Good work man !
Being a guy with considerable bias towards one particular CB in this conversation (BSUs Kyle Wilson), I wanted the Texans to take him over either KJ, MCCourty, or FSUs Patrick Robinson. Of course the top-rated corner, Joe Hadin, was long-gone before the Texans pick rolled around.
But Wilson has also been a disappointment, since like your claims about KJ he's been put in a tough situation because what time he's played he's had little help in the Jets-Blitz happy defense. I just know Wilson looked great at the Senior Bowl, but of course he was covering college receivers and not NFL receivers.
But there's been several plays where KJ didn't appear to have the top-end speed to hang in there against the wide-out on a fly-patter or other deep route while McCourty seems to hang in there stride for stride in comparable match-ups ? You seem to be saying those plays weren't KJs fault because of the absense of safety help over top ?
So 76Texan, you still contend that KJ was the right pick for the Texans over the other corners available to them ?

Thx Idexan, and all those who loves to talk football.
I'll get back to this some other time.
But, in short, yes, I do believe the Texans made the right choice, at least on draft day.
Nobody knows what the future will hold, but I think what I see so far, I like.

76Texan
12-16-2010, 10:27 PM
Kareem got destroyed on a pass play, I think it was to Mason, early on in the game on Monday. He's gotten "better" but he's still sucking something massive. I have definite hopes he will mature. A rookie is a rookie, after all.

As for our WORST defensive back, well, that honor EASILY goes to Brice McCain. That guy flat out doesn't deserve to be in the LEAGUE.

At least Glover Quin has played hard and smart since his missteps earlier.

EDIT: I made this post without reading the previous four pages, so excuse me if these "points" have been made already.

This is pretty much the exact same play that I have discussed some time ago.
If you watch careful, you will see that the Ravens have the same 2-receiver pattern.

#85 Mason ran the post route toward the deep seam and #81 Boldin ran the slant route underneath.

We were in single deep safety with Wilson just like before and alsmot played it correctly this time.

Pollard, who had stepped up to play the run, dropped back quickly in the short passing lane. Wilson came up quickly on Boldin to form a double team here.

We had KJ playing off-man and dropping back to play the deep outside.
As I had suggested before, when Wilson steps up, Quin automatically has to get depth immediately to take his place.

If you look at the action on the field, that was what Quin did, except that he was late.

Either that or Quin has to stay close to Boldin on the slant route so that Wilson can remain in his deep middle.
This will depend on the D-call, of course.
But those are the only two viable options that I see to defend this play as it occurred.

And normally, the free safety (Wilson) makes the call in the secondary.
Therefore, it led me to believe that Quin was late in getting back.

You can also see from the play that this time they have KJ getting his depth to the outside and yet he was not too far off the receiver.
Notice that Mason took a quick step toward the flag before turning back to the post. This is why a CB like KJ in this situation should get depth to the outside. You want one defender guarding the outside and one guarding the inside. This is another double team, and it's called team defense.

It was good to see that KJ was able to close back the gap quickly.
Even if Mason had gathered the ball in, KJ was right there to make the tackle.
And there's no guarantee that he can hold on to the ball.

In short, IMHO, this one - if it was a completion, would have been on Quin, and not KJ.

2slik4u
12-16-2010, 10:47 PM
I agree!
I believe KJ has been our best CB from day one.
Hou-Tex just wants a pinata he can beat on from time to time! :ant:

When I have time (probably after the season), I will come back and put together all my notes for all to see, I promise (I hope I have the time).

Ill tell you what, Ive liked this kid and supported him since day one but there is no way he has been better than Glover Quin.

No effing way.