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View Full Version : Our STs have STD


CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2010, 03:17 PM
Special Teams Dysfunction

This year, our STs play seemed awfully sick. We never seem to get decent field position, not to even mention that our opponents reflect an inverse relationship to this phenomenon. I had to look up our stats to see if I was under an unfounded impression. WRONG!

THIS LIST (http://http://www.footballdb.com/stats.html?mode=KR&yr=2010&lg=NFL&sort=kravg), granted has a mix of some returners with only a few attempts, BUT our league status is pitiful no matter how you look at it.

Kickoff Returns

JJ / ave yds 21.5 / longest 35 yds [53rd on the list]

SS /ave yds 19.6 / longest 33 yds [73th on the list]

Punt Returns

JJ / ave yds 7.4 / longest 39 yds [27th on the list]

DA /ave yds 6.5 / 17 [39th on the list]

You could very well say that we have gone into every game with a built-in handicap which we are forced to overcome from the get go by other means.
I'll let others comment on other obvious facets of our STD.

hradhak
11-30-2010, 03:20 PM
agreed, we've had pretty crappy field position this year compared to previous years. I wonder if the loss of the wedge has hurt us on kickoffs. Either way though, Marciano has got to get it together, our ST has been anything but special.

El Tejano
11-30-2010, 03:20 PM
On top of all that, you can bet your life that Mcmannis will be there to clip some one.

Ole Miss Texan
11-30-2010, 04:16 PM
JJ often looks hesitant on where he wants to run, I think that's part of the problem. Do we have have different personnel blocking for him on punts/kicks? Because I think that's an even larger factor into why our returns aren't going as far... it's not all Jacoby or Slaton's fault.

One reason why I think a lot of people dislike Kubiak as our HC or for some of his playcalls on offense is because he's such a strategist. I feel like he calls the game like it's a chess match and most of us fans just want to see us beat up on all the teams and run over them.

What I mean by that is alot of his so-called conservative playcalls, I feel, are due to us consistently having poor field position and trying to help out an awful defense. You'd think with such a good offense we'd be able to march down the field at ease but that just hasn't been the case. When we have bad field position and cant move, we punt and the other team usually has great field position. Sometimes on those 3rd and longs, if Schaub drops back 7 steps he's more likely to get sacked but if we do some quick screens or draws plays those will either (i) go for a large gain as the D is defending the pass or (ii) will get us down the field a bit and help improve our field position as we punt the ball and try and pin the opposing offense a little deeper.

Does any of this make sense or does anyone else feel like this? When our average starting field position is say the 14 yd line and the other teams is around midfield... I think Kubiak (and probably many coaches) got into "chess" mode and try and get back to level field position.

Double Barrel
11-30-2010, 05:27 PM
JJ never seems to catch a ball and just start running with it on kickoffs. There is always a pause, and then usually an east/west thing that never really seems to amount to much. And he's really lost that aggressiveness on punts that he had in years past.

Good subject, CnD. Special teams can often be the unsung heroes for a team, but they can also hinder you with consistently bad field position like ours seem to do.

JB
11-30-2010, 05:30 PM
JJ often looks hesitant on where he wants to run, I think that's part of the problem. Do we have have different personnel blocking for him on punts/kicks? Because I think that's an even larger factor into why our returns aren't going as far... it's not all Jacoby or Slaton's fault.

One reason why I think a lot of people dislike Kubiak as our HC or for some of his playcalls on offense is because he's such a strategist. I feel like he calls the game like it's a chess match and most of us fans just want to see us beat up on all the teams and run over them.

What I mean by that is alot of his so-called conservative playcalls, I feel, are due to us consistently having poor field position and trying to help out an awful defense. You'd think with such a good offense we'd be able to march down the field at ease but that just hasn't been the case. When we have bad field position and cant move, we punt and the other team usually has great field position. Sometimes on those 3rd and longs, if Schaub drops back 7 steps he's more likely to get sacked but if we do some quick screens or draws plays those will either (i) go for a large gain as the D is defending the pass or (ii) will get us down the field a bit and help improve our field position as we punt the ball and try and pin the opposing offense a little deeper.

Does any of this make sense or does anyone else feel like this? When our average starting field position is say the 14 yd line and the other teams is around midfield... I think Kubiak (and probably many coaches) got into "chess" mode and try and get back to level field position.


I just spent a while making a long post with my thoughts on this, but my stupid *************, *******, ******* laptop decided to erase it all! :pissed:

Summary: Coaching has returners hesitate to see the lanes develop. Our offense is not as explosive this year. Where has the deep pass gone?

Rey
11-30-2010, 05:35 PM
It would have been kind of funny if Trindon didn't get hurt and we had cut him.

Some other team probably would have picked him up and he'd be doing big things.


Good thing we got him on IR. Still, I think we should look at taking a player that can return kicks as well as have some versatility to be used on offense. Noel Devine is a guy I'd like us to consider. If we got him, I think between he and Trindon at least one of them would be a good returner for us....

Our returners have done very little for us this year. I think is a little afraid of contact now. He looks gun shy catching the ball and fielding punts and kick returns. I will give him props for holding onto the punts this year though.

CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2010, 06:01 PM
I'd also like to have someone explain KO's. Much like last year, most fall short of the five yd line, some even short of the 10. Rackers has a strong enough foot to get it deep into the endzone each time. In practice, he boots it into tomorrow. And if the logic is for ST coverage to minimize returns behind the 20, how's that worked out for us? It also isn't logical that "it gives us a chance to knock the ball out for a turnover." How many times have you seen that happen? The logic of a short kick affording the chance to give our bad D the ball behind the 20 isn't reality, because we generally allow a return of at least to the 25-35. It's hard for me not to try to pin this on faulty coaching strategery.

JB
11-30-2010, 06:10 PM
I'd also like to have someone explain KO's. Much like last year, most fall short of the five yd line, some even short of the 10. Rackers has a strong enough foot to get it deep into the endzone each time. In practice, he boots it into tomorrow. And if the logic is for ST coverage to minimize returns behind the 20, how's that worked out for us? It also isn't logical that "it gives us a chance to knock the ball out for a turnover." How many times have you seen that happen? The logic of a short kick affording the chance to give our bad D the ball behind the 20 isn't reality, because we generally allow a return of at least to the 25-35. It's hard for me not to try to pin this on faulty coaching strategery.

I thing it is a faulty coaching strategy. Seems I recall when early in the regime, Kubiak said the design was to kick it high & short of the goal line to eliminate long returns. That doesn't work with Ole tackles.

Tried & true methods that this staff seems to count on are no longer working. I sure wish Walsh was around to update his "book".

CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2010, 06:16 PM
I thing it is a faulty coaching strategy. Seems I recall when early in the regime, Kubiak said the design was to kick it high & short of the goal line to eliminate long returns. That doesn't work with Ole tackles.

Tried & true methods that this staff seems to count on are no longer working. I sure wish Walsh was around to update his "book".

Kickoffs have been short.........not high............and with no hang time to speak of. In fact, some have been line-drive-like.

JB
11-30-2010, 08:08 PM
Kickoffs have been short.........not high............and with no hang time to speak of. In fact, some have been line-drive-like.

I know. I was just recalling what the stated goal was. KB did the same a lot last year. It's like they kick it short on purpose. But I don't know why.

CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2010, 09:48 PM
I know. I was just recalling what the stated goal was. KB did the same a lot last year. It's like they kick it short on purpose. But I don't know why.

When I made my post, I knew you were only stating the goal.:handshake:

I was just adding to my previous post and "re-inforcing" yours. And just like you, I recognized Brown doing the same seemingly purposeful thing. Again, it seems that poor strategy has extended to bonehead stubborness. It would at least be nice to ADJUST your strategy when you've proven over and over again that you've taken the course of a misguided soul.:mcnugget:

JB
11-30-2010, 10:22 PM
When I made my post, I knew you were only stating the goal.:handshake:

I was just adding to my previous post and "re-inforcing" yours. And just like you, I recognized Brown doing the same seemingly purposeful thing. Again, it seems that poor strategy has extended to bonehead stubborness. It would at least be nice to ADJUST your strategy when you've proven over and over again that you've taken the course of a misguided soul.:mcnugget:


Yeah, you would think so, but apparantly it is just a minor player mistake here or there that is impeding the successful implementation of the plan...:kitten:


I really think that sometimes this staff is lost in Never-Never land and they are sure that the lost boys will be by to rescue them in just a minute.

HJam72
12-01-2010, 02:38 AM
Kick the ball really high and really short....and then catch it!

I can see Fisher using a holder and having him pull the ball and throw it up (nobody'll notice). :)