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jshabang
11-24-2010, 03:33 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/sports/7310243.html

DID MCNAIRS SEAT JUST GET HOT OR NOT????????

TheCD
11-24-2010, 03:38 PM
After the San Diego loss, McNair said coach Gary Kubiak wouldnít be fired after the season. When he was asked about Kubiak today, he said, ďWe talk about the game and the performance and the very things Iím talking about.

As Texans fans we all pretty much felt that this is what McNair would say/do. But let me be the first to let out the collective...


UUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH....

Followed by the Kubespalm

:kubepalm:

HJam72
11-24-2010, 03:41 PM
OK, great; so, if this team goes .500 or less for like 8 more years, Kubiak might get fired. Way to sock it to 'im, Bob!

Carr Bombed
11-24-2010, 03:45 PM
:kubepalm:
.....This team is fantastic at public relations (The ONLY thing we excel at)... What he said sounded straight like "Owner speak". It's obvious he's starting to get whiff of how upset fans are (which is why he even bothered to "politician" his way through his previous comments), but doesn't really put anyone on notice. His comments were just damage control. Damage control that isn't going to work.


My god, I hope we don't keep Kubiak for another year. It's almost like if he can atleast get to 7-9, he'll let Kubiak keep his job.

jshabang
11-24-2010, 03:51 PM
I didnt like everything he said......but a couple things strike me as weird

First of all the fan base is livid.....thats apparent or he wouldnt even be talkin to the media trying to clarify his words

Second hes pretty much saying......WE BETTER WIN THIS SUNDAY OR ELSE......which seems to be putting Kubiak on notice that we better not lose this weekend to a undrafted rookie QB

Third when asked directly is he behind kubiak.....there was no answer of....."What would firing the coach do.....it wont make us catch passe or tackle".......he would not give him a vote of confidence....instead sayin that......"I will do whats in the best interest of the team at all times and im worried about tennesee Sunday"


IDK but i think kubes seat just at least got a little lukewarm.....maybe not hot....but definately lukewarm

HTown2ATX
11-24-2010, 03:53 PM
:kubepalm: This team is fantastic at public relations... What he said sounded straight like "Owner speak". It's obvious he's starting to get whiff of how upset fans are (which is why he even bothered to "politician" his way through his previous comments), but doesn't really put anyone on notice. His comments were just damage control. Damage control that isn't going to work.


My god, I hope we don't keep Kubiak for another year. It's almost like if he can atleast get to 7-9, he'll let Kubiak keep his job.

Unfortunately, I think even 6-10......MAYBE even 5-11 he keeps his job.

-CBA lockout

-Extension signed

-#1 SOS in the league this year

-"Youth on defense"

-"Competed in most every game and were just killed by last second gaffs"

Above are all the selling points that Kubes and Co. will sell to keep their jobs plus McNair just doesn't pull the trigger sometimes. We need Marvin Zindler back from the grave to investigate how McNair became a billionare business man with eployees like this and not making personell changes.

I wish I could have been a McNair employee. I guess I could just Shake Weight up and down all day in my office, do damn near nothing or eff stuff up and get the ole "Aw Shucks" from my boss and go right back to work and my paycheck the next day.

:kubepalm: :gun:

gary
11-24-2010, 04:05 PM
Is Bob the type of person to talk about Gary while he still has the job? I don't know.

Corrosion
11-24-2010, 04:06 PM
Havent read the article but just to play devils advocate ..... I can see why McNair might give him another year and the reasons are numerous.


1) The way they started the season smashing Indy in the mouth. That was encouraging.

1) Injuries to key contributors - Barwin , Ryans , OD , AJ. The suspensions of Brown and Cushing.


3) The youth in the secondary , we all knew there would be growing pains - just no one had a clue that it would be THIS BAD. Makes me miss "Pay Me Rick". I kinda put the blame for that move on Smith , this being an uncapped year they could have franchised him again or found a veteran CB in FA who could help these kids out.

4) And this is the big one -There is likely going to be a work stoppage next season. There could be no season or a partial season. If it happens to be a partial season with no training camp or preseason .... what are you going to do , bring in a new coach and have him hand out a new playbook and ask the entire team to learn it in a week or ten days ? That just doesnt seem very productive to me.


They have been in position to win almost every game and could easily be 7-3 with a few breaks here and there - The coaches get credit for that as its their job to put the players in a position to win - the players have to be held accountable too - Someone has to make a damn play , they havent done that.

Porky
11-24-2010, 04:09 PM
The bastard child of Ward Cleaver and Fred Rogers speaks, and it's still milquetoast.

Gary, can you tie your shoes. Sure you can. Oh look, here's Mr. Williams. Can he sack the QB today boys and girls? No, well not today, but he tried hard and that's why he gets a gold star today. Let me get my sweater and sit beside the fireplace for a chat. Now, boys and girls our word of the day is try. As long as we try we are winners and that's all that matters. Now go get your milk and cookies, kiss your Mommy good night and say a prayer for all those big and strong football players and let them know you love them no matter what. Oh, and don't forget to tell Daddy to buy some over-priced tickets and some over-priced beer so he can watch all the guys out there who try hard every week.

gary
11-24-2010, 04:15 PM
I still feel the next four to five weeks will be the deciding factor.

m5kwatts
11-24-2010, 04:17 PM
(on if he is still sticking with Kubiak) ďIím concerned about winning this game against Tennessee. I always do what I think is in the best interest of this team, and thatís what motivates me. And itís in our best interest right now to get ready and play Tennessee and go out there and win this game, and thatís what I expect us to do.Ē

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2010/11/24/mcnair-chimes-in-on-texans-struggles/

That doesn't sound like an endorsement to me.

imatexan
11-24-2010, 04:17 PM
What I thought he would say.

I don't know what else you want him to say, he speaks the truth.

Trap_Star
11-24-2010, 04:19 PM
bob is such a *****. he's going to need someone to hold his hand again when it comes to a regime change.

****, just gather the entire team and coaching staff, tell them the playoffs is out of the picture this year but for the rest of the season EVERYONE is playing/coaching for their job next year.

grow a ****ing set.

texansdrummer
11-24-2010, 04:20 PM
Havent read the article but just to play devils advocate ..... I can see why McNair might give him another year and the reasons are numerous.


1) The way they started the season smashing Indy in the mouth. That was encouraging.

1) Injuries to key contributors - Barwin , Ryans , OD , AJ. The suspensions of Brown and Cushing.


3) The youth in the secondary , we all knew there would be growing pains - just no one had a clue that it would be THIS BAD. Makes me miss "Pay Me Rick". I kinda put the blame for that move on Smith , this being an uncapped year they could have franchised him again or found a veteran CB in FA who could help these kids out.

4) And this is the big one -There is likely going to be a work stoppage next season. There could be no season or a partial season. If it happens to be a partial season with no training camp or preseason .... what are you going to do , bring in a new coach and have him hand out a new playbook and ask the entire team to learn it in a week or ten days ? That just doesnt seem very productive to me.


They have been in position to win almost every game and could easily be 7-3 with a few breaks here and there - The coaches get credit for that as its their job to put the players in a position to win - the players have to be held accountable too - Someone has to make a damn play , they havent done that.

Agreed....but some new coaches on Defense for next season better be non-negotiable.

jshabang
11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
(on if he is still sticking with Kubiak) “I’m concerned about winning this game against Tennessee. I always do what I think is in the best interest of this team, and that’s what motivates me. And it’s in our best interest right now to get ready and play Tennessee and go out there and win this game, and that’s what I expect us to do.”

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2010/11/24/mcnair-chimes-in-on-texans-struggles/

That doesn't sound like an endorsement to me.

exactly.....i would go out on a limb and say if kubiak and "the kids" stumble and bumble to another loss to the titans this weekend that his seat would go from lukewarm to hot in a hurry

then our 2 national TV games would come up and if we embarras ourselves royally in front of a national audience...which we will becuz its against philly and the ravens......I would go out on another limb and say that he could not possibly survive that kinda debacle and will be fired IMHO

gary
11-24-2010, 04:24 PM
If you think Gary should stay then don't worry be happy I don't.

Texecutioner
11-24-2010, 04:44 PM
[B]


They have been in position to win almost every game and could easily be 7-3 with a few breaks here and there - The coaches get credit for that as its their job to put the players in a position to win - the players have to be held accountable too - Someone has to make a damn play , they havent done that.

THis is a big excuse for Kubes Corrosion. These have been the same horrid mistakes for the last three years. It's always "someone has to make a play" for this team." These sound like the same excuses that people have made over and over for Yao Ming over the years and that has put the Rockets in a corner, and it's putting the Texans in a corner right now once again just like it did in the Capers era. If Mcnair brings Kubiak back for another season, he's stating that he doesn't give a damn about having a winning team and 9 years into this franchise will say enough about Mcnair as an owner. I won't root for this team under Kubes anymore. The guy's a loser, and any other franchise that had an owner that was committed to winning would have fired Kubes already with how embarrassing this team is. The fact that this team has these constant meltdowns every week and this has gone on for 3 seasons now makes this franchise and this fan base look really weak at this point for accepting it.

dtran04
11-24-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm not sure what the complaining is about. He just said he's disappointed and that they are underachieving (which is actually saying alot).

Did people expect him to say that everyone will be fired the day after the last game?

Double Barrel
11-24-2010, 04:49 PM
"I was very proud of that comeback," McNair said. "At the same time, you can't win games playing 59 minutes, and that was the big disappointment. We just have to learn to play 60 minutes and get these things closed out."

Proud? :um:

Proud of a team that can't pull it's head out if it's ass for the first half of a game? I could see using words like "encouraged" or something, but proud indicates accomplishment.

That's just pathetic, even if it is just owner-speak. There's no accountability in those words.

And after five freakin' years, you'd think there would be a little less patience for a coach that has not taught his team to play a full 60 minutes of football.

Grid
11-24-2010, 05:01 PM
(on if he is still sticking with Kubiak) ďIím concerned about winning this game against Tennessee. I always do what I think is in the best interest of this team, and thatís what motivates me. And itís in our best interest right now to get ready and play Tennessee and go out there and win this game, and thatís what I expect us to do.Ē

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2010/11/24/mcnair-chimes-in-on-texans-struggles/

That doesn't sound like an endorsement to me.

See....that sounds pretty bad for Kubiak to me.

There is a lot not being said there. I imagine that if he wasnt being political about it, that quote would have been:

I'd fire him right now, but Iím concerned about winning this game against Tennessee.

Seems to me that if Kubiak doesnt go out and win against Tennessee, yeah.. his seat is gonna be like lava.

HTown2ATX
11-24-2010, 05:02 PM
proud? :um:

Proud of a team that can't pull it's head out if it's ass for the first half of a game? I could see using words like "encouraged" or something, but proud indicates accomplishment.

That's just pathetic, even if it is just owner-speak. There's no accountability in those words.

And after five freakin' years, you'd think there would be a little less patience for a coach that has not taught his team to play a full 60 minutes of football.

^^^this

TEXANRED
11-24-2010, 05:03 PM
I think that McNair is a business man and as long as his product is in the top 5 in value and sells out every game due to corporate sponcers he has zero reason to make a change.

Welcome to being a Bengal fan.

Mr. White
11-24-2010, 05:05 PM
What McNair says during the season amounts to jack ****. He's not going to say anything negative about his employees during the season.

We all knew that he had a man-crush on Carr and he never said a bad word about him. Then the season was over in January and Carr was out by February. He still had nothing but good stuff to say about the guy.

If you're looking for the owner to say he joined the Soapers, it'll never happen. If human nature applies to him, then he wants the same results we all want.

gary
11-24-2010, 05:19 PM
I'll wait untill the season is over but I do not think Kubiak is all too safe.

Big Lou
11-24-2010, 05:22 PM
Defensive end Antonio Smith isn't as optimistic.

"Am I worried about this team? Yeah, I'm worried about this team, of what could happen to it, of where it could go," Smith said. "It gets to the point where you're thinking the worst. But when you wake up and you come to work in the morning, you've got to shake it off and come with a new frame of mind.

"You can be worried about it," he said, "but you've got to put that in the back and go handle your business."

It was later stated that Antonio Smith jumped up and gave this statement before the reporter asked the question, and was promptly flagged for 5 yards although he did point at the reporter and complained that he flinched.

Marcus
11-24-2010, 05:24 PM
What McNair says during the season amounts to jack ****. He's not going to say anything negative about his employees during the season.

We all knew that he had a man-crush on Carr and he never said a bad word about him. Then the season was over in January and Carr was out by February. He still had nothing but good stuff to say about the guy.

If you're looking for the owner to say he joined the Soapers, it'll never happen. If human nature applies to him, then he wants the same results we all want.

I absolutely agree with that. He didn't say a bad word about Dom Capers either before he fired him at the end of the season. Not one word.

I have no doubt that McNair will fire Kubes at the end of the season if they don't make the playoffs. I don't need to hear McNair throw Kubes under the bus in order to know that.

Some of you, no, a whole hell of a lot of you, want McNair to do just that . . . show his frustration, vent, and throw somebody under the bus.

Fans can show and voice their frustrations, make knee-jerk reactions, and throw people under the bus. That's because they have no say-so in running the team.

Owners aren't allowed to go half-cocked. Whatever they say or do, has consequences.

texanhead08
11-24-2010, 05:52 PM
The lack of a CBA could be what saves Kubiak's ass. I wouldn't be shocked to see a lot of coachs survive just because of the unknown to if next season will actually happen.

drs23
11-24-2010, 05:59 PM
Agreed....but some new coaches on Defense for next season better be non-negotiable.

Agreed.

GP
11-24-2010, 06:15 PM
I absolutely agree with that. He didn't say a bad word about Dom Capers either before he fired him at the end of the season. Not one word.

I have no doubt that McNair will fire Kubes at the end of the season if they don't make the playoffs. I don't need to hear McNair throw Kubes under the bus in order to know that.

Some of you, no, a whole hell of a lot of you, want McNair to do just that . . . show his frustration, vent, and throw somebody under the bus.

Fans can show and voice their frustrations, make knee-jerk reactions, and throw people under the bus. That's because they have no say-so in running the team.

Owners aren't allowed to go half-cocked. Whatever they say or do, has consequences.

I agree. It's difficult to recruit coaches when an owner publicly humiliates them. Owners gotta' play poker.

DexmanC
11-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Unfortunately, I think even 6-10......MAYBE even 5-11 he keeps his job.

-CBA lockout

-Extension signed

-#1 SOS in the league this year

-"Youth on defense"

-"Competed in most every game and were just killed by last second gaffs"

Above are all the selling points that Kubes and Co. will sell to keep their jobs plus McNair just doesn't pull the trigger sometimes. We need Marvin Zindler back from the grave to investigate how McNair became a billionare business man with eployees like this and not making personell changes.

I wish I could have been a McNair employee. I guess I could just Shake Weight up and down all day in my office, do damn near nothing or eff stuff up and get the ole "Aw Shucks" from my boss and go right back to work and my paycheck the next day.

:kubepalm: :gun:

I feel what you're saying, but Houston fans ain't buying those bullet
points this season. Mcnair knows that, and will have no choice but
to fire Kubes if the team falls short. We got people like Kimmy, Dale,
and Joe Texan calling for Kubiak's head. If THEY are wanting him gone,
I can imagine how the rest of the season ticket holders feel about it.

Mcnair ain't proved himself to be stupid, just yet.

Double Barrel
11-24-2010, 06:25 PM
I absolutely agree with that. He didn't say a bad word about Dom Capers either before he fired him at the end of the season. Not one word.

I have no doubt that McNair will fire Kubes at the end of the season if they don't make the playoffs. I don't need to hear McNair throw Kubes under the bus in order to know that.

Some of you, no, a whole hell of a lot of you, want McNair to do just that . . . show his frustration, vent, and throw somebody under the bus.

Fans can show and voice their frustrations, make knee-jerk reactions, and throw people under the bus. That's because they have no say-so in running the team.

Owners aren't allowed to go half-cocked. Whatever they say or do, has consequences.

Good points. While it is a fan's inclination to rant and rave, that's our duty as fans. We have a passion for an entertainment medium that we are powerless to control any of it.

I surely wouldn't want an owner to do the same, especially when the team is still mathematically "in the hunt" and not completely eliminated. I do not expect a run, but it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities. Crazier things have happened in the NFL.

However, I tend to not share your 'optimistic' projection about Kubiak's future, as I think McNair has patience beyond what most fans possess. I think changes will most likely be made, but I'm not convinced that he will be ready to implement a complete overhaul with so many factors going into the past five years and the potential lockout looming on the horizon.

CloakNNNdagger
11-24-2010, 06:42 PM
"I was very proud of that comeback," McNair said. "At the same time, you can't win games playing 59 minutes, and that was the big disappointment. We just have to learn to play 60 minutes and get these things closed out."



Kubiak's weekly personal reply to McNair (taken from Vince Lombardi):We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. :)

Mr. White
11-24-2010, 06:48 PM
I can only think of 3 owners that would say something to the press that would turn the heat up on their HC's... Al Davis, Jerry Jones and Bud Adams.

Not only is McNair not that kind of guy, but most CEO's in business aren't that type of guy. Look at a guy like Steve Jobs. He won't say anything negative about anyone working for his company to the press, but I guarantee that he's putting his foot in asses behind the scenes.

The CEO's have to answer to stockholders just like the NFL owners have to answer to the fans. If CEO's melt down, then their stocks take a hit. If NFL owners melt down, then seats and merchandise take a hit.

wagonhed
11-24-2010, 06:52 PM
Why should he say anything? He isn't stressing out about it because he knows what he is going to do, and if he doesn't know yet, at least he is the one making the decision. We want him to say something so we can stop stressing out about what we think he is going to do. He has no reason to give in to our desires for him to be verbal about his choices. All he has to do is make the right decision at the end of the season.

ThaShark316
11-24-2010, 07:01 PM
I'm counting down they months, days, hours, minutes and seconds til the texans hire someone nobody likes.

I'm a make that 'i told you' thread, and get a ton of -rep for doing so.

Mr. White
11-24-2010, 07:04 PM
I feel what you're saying, but Houston fans ain't buying those bullet
points this season. Mcnair knows that, and will have no choice but
to fire Kubes if the team falls short. We got people like Kimmy, Dale,
and Joe Texan calling for Kubiak's head. If THEY are wanting him gone,
I can imagine how the rest of the season ticket holders feel about it.

Mcnair ain't proved himself to be stupid, just yet.

Totally agree. If things don't turn around real quick, then it'll be a no-brainer.

When I say "turn around," I mean something we'll be watching on America's Game. It'll take a miracle for that to happen.

I honestly don't see how Kubiak stays next season if he has to deal with a new DC or GM that's not one of his drinking buddies....and that's what it's gonna take.

Mr. White
11-24-2010, 07:13 PM
I'm counting down they months, days, hours, minutes and seconds til the texans hire someone nobody likes.

I'm a make that 'i told you' thread, and get a ton of -rep for doing so.

They already hired that guy.

How many months, days, hours, minutes, and seconds has it been since January 23, 2006?

Second Honeymoon
11-24-2010, 07:16 PM
Nothing to see here
Just ownerspeak but it was nice that he didn't say 'fine job' again. Owners don't like being hit with these questions. He has gotten many letters in the past month and they haven't been very optimistic

Great opinions in this thread though

Fire kubiak

NitroGSXR
11-24-2010, 07:48 PM
**** you too, Bob.

Go Texans. BEAT TENNESSEE!!

machineo
11-24-2010, 08:33 PM
"I think we're going to go out and win this game," McNair said. "If we win this game, then probably we'll be in the second place in the division, one game out.

It sounds like he's satisfied being 2nd place and just being competitive. Lose this one and I think the wheels stop spinning out and the fire kubiak bus gets real traction. Bottom of the division = embarassment, which I would imagine is a bigger thing for billionaires.

Thorn
11-24-2010, 08:55 PM
After four and a half seasons the Texans have improved from bad to below average. BFD.

* yawn *

97roc
11-24-2010, 09:29 PM
I think we all know that Kubiak will be back next year. The only real question is what happens with the defensive staff. Honestly, there is only so much you can do with limited talent.

houstonspartan
11-25-2010, 01:06 AM
I think we all know that Kubiak will be back next year. The only real question is what happens with the defensive staff. Honestly, there is only so much you can do with limited talent.

The only thing we "know" is that season ticket holders are DONE. Even the most hard core season ticket holders can't defend this team anymore. I hung out with a buddy of mine tonight who has been an original ticket holder, and he's done.

This has hit to the core of the fan base, and, trust me, Kubiak doesn't have the job security you think he does.

GNTLEWOLF
11-25-2010, 01:26 AM
[I think we all know that Kubiak will be back next year. The only real question is what happens with the defensive staff. Honestly, there is only so much you can do with limited talent.
There it is again....Every year since Kubiak has arrived as HC that limited talent thing has been used to get him a pass. That doesn't hold water anymore. After four drafts this team and all the talent on it has been handpicked by Kubiak. It is HIS talent that is out there so if it is limitted, it is his. I am however not so sure that the talent is really that limitted. I subscribe to the talent regression theory. I believe the talent is there but it has been coached down. But any way it goes, that old "limitted talent" saw will not work anymore. It needs to be execised from Texan's vocabulary.

houstonspartan
11-25-2010, 01:49 AM
[
There it is again....Every year since Kubiak has arrived as HC that limited talent thing has been used to get him a pass. That doesn't hold water anymore. After four drafts this team and all the talent on it has been handpicked by Kubiak. It is HIS talent that is out there so if it is limitted, it is his. I am however not so sure that the talent is really that limitted. I subscribe to the talent regression theory. I believe the talent is there but it has been coached down. But any way it goes, that old "limitted talent" saw will not work anymore. It needs to be execised from Texan's vocabulary.

Yep. Also, we have had several players leave this team, go elsewhere, and get dramatically better. That's coaching.

Also, I just read the Chronicle story. That was anything but a ringing endorsement of Gary Kubiak. He should be nervous.

Surreal McCoy
11-25-2010, 06:33 AM
Yep. Also, we have had several players leave this team, go elsewhere, and get dramatically better. That's coaching.


Or they are simply more mature players now, al la Vick. They could also be benefiting from having better players around them like Babin. He washed out with 4(?) other teams after the Texans and now everyone thinks he was just let go and become Reggie White reincarnate.:rolleyes:

Corrosion
11-25-2010, 07:43 AM
The only thing we "know" is that season ticket holders are DONE. Even the most hard core season ticket holders can't defend this team anymore. I hung out with a buddy of mine tonight who has been an original ticket holder, and he's done.

This has hit to the core of the fan base, and, trust me, Kubiak doesn't have the job security you think he does.

And how would you know that ? You know McNair ? You know Kubiak ? .....

See ya at dinner today.:chef:

JB
11-25-2010, 07:43 AM
Yep. Also, we have had several players leave this team, go elsewhere, and get dramatically better. That's coaching.




Who are these players that have gone to another team and got dramatically better?

HJam72
11-25-2010, 07:47 AM
Who are these players that have gone to another team and got dramatically better?

All of them that went to another team. :brickwall:

Surreal McCoy
11-25-2010, 07:48 AM
Who are these players that have gone to another team and got dramatically better?

That's not important. What's important is that it's perceived.

Texas T
11-25-2010, 09:49 AM
The only thing we "know" is that season ticket holders are DONE. Even the most hard core season ticket holders can't defend this team anymore. I hung out with a buddy of mine tonight who has been an original ticket holder, and he's done.

This has hit to the core of the fan base, and, trust me, Kubiak doesn't have the job security you think he does.

What about if there's a change??
Will all the season ticket holders still bail??
I'm comfortable with NcNair's comments. I really believe that Kubs will be gone without a 100% turnaround for the rest of the season.
It has been reported that there has been significant progress on the agreement so his job being safe due to the impending lock out may not be reality, so I agree with you about his job security.

Marcus
11-25-2010, 12:07 PM
This has hit to the core of the fan base, and, trust me, Kubiak doesn't have the job security you think he does.

The "core" of the fan base could really care less if they win or not. The waiting list is just as long, so if you quit and give up your season tickets, all you're doing, is making someone else happy about the availability.

Wolf
11-25-2010, 02:53 PM
"None of us are happy with the performance of our team. They're underperforming," McNair said. "Our coaches know that, they say that. Our players know that, they say that. And we've got to turn this thing around, and the way we'll do it is by playing 60 minutes. So that's the emphasis."



http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14348935/mcnair-disappointed-in-texans-results

well it is the job of the coaches to get the players to perform

thunderkyss
11-25-2010, 03:04 PM
IDK but i think kubes seat just at least got a little lukewarm.....maybe not hot....but definately lukewarm

It's things like this that will make another season of Kubiak difficult to bear.

The man said Kubiak isn't going anywhere, but you've read between the lines, and are nearly convinced that Kubiak is gone.

I'll admit, I think the CBA will get worked out. This last update we had makes me feel even better about it... But the CBA is the key, I think. If there is no "agreement" prior to the end of the season... forget about it.

Kubiak will be the Texans' head coach 2011, regardless.

thunderkyss
11-25-2010, 03:14 PM
What McNair says during the season amounts to jack ****. He's not going to say anything negative about his employees during the season.


McNair is human, just like anyone else. His comments tell me that he is still squarely behind Kubiak. Why? Because it's the same coach speak that is metted to us through the coach & the players.

If nothing else, Kubiak has done an amazing job controlling what comes out of the locker room & the front office.

In 2005, about this time, there was no question that McNair was going to do something. I could be wrong, but I think talks with Dan Reeves had already started by week 12.

thunderkyss
11-25-2010, 03:19 PM
The only thing we "know" is that season ticket holders are DONE.

No, we don't "know" that.

houstonspartan
11-25-2010, 03:34 PM
The "core" of the fan base could really care less if they win or not. The waiting list is just as long, so if you quit and give up your season tickets, all you're doing, is making someone else happy about the availability.

Wrong.

Go on Houstontexans.com. There are currently a TON of PSL's and tickets available and for sale. It is a mistake to assume that every team has a 20-year waiting list for season tickets. We are a profitable franchise, but we are not Green Bay or Washington, both of which are historical franchises with long wait times.

The myth of "we have a long wait list for tickets" is incorrect. They are making their money from ticket holders who bought in, and have held their tickets for a several years. Those are the people they can't piss off.

And it's absurd to say that the core of the fan base doesn't care if they win or not. What are you smoking?

houstonspartan
11-25-2010, 03:35 PM
No, we don't "know" that.

Yes, we do.

GuerillaBlack
11-25-2010, 03:37 PM
I think we all know that Kubiak will be back next year. The only real question is what happens with the defensive staff. Honestly, there is only so much you can do with limited talent.

No, we don't know if Kubiak will be back next season or not. And this limited talent thing has to stop. The defense is not limited on talent. The scheme is just downright terrible. Put in a good DC here like Wade and get Cowher as the HC and you won't question the talent on the defense. Actually, a lot of analysts and reporters have said that the talent on the Texans defense isn't bad, just the scheme is pathetic and easy for QBs to pick apart.

kiwitexansfan
11-25-2010, 03:48 PM
No, we don't know if Kubiak will be back next season or not. And this limited talent thing has to stop. The defense is not limited on talent. The scheme is just downright terrible. Put in a good DC here like Wade and get Cowher as the HC and you won't question the talent on the defense. Actually, a lot of analysts and reporters have said that the talent on the Texans defense isn't bad, just the scheme is pathetic and easy for QBs to pick apart.

What have you seen from any of our secondary to accuse them of having talent?

GuerillaBlack
11-25-2010, 04:23 PM
Or they are simply more mature players now, al la Vick. They could also be benefiting from having better players around them like Babin. He washed out with 4(?) other teams after the Texans and now everyone thinks he was just let go and become Reggie White reincarnate.:rolleyes:

Or, Texans coaching just sucks? Everyone knows the Texans coaching sucks. Even Dunta has made fun of it, as he laughs at us while his team has an 8-2 record (and when was Mike Smith hired again....seriously, how long does it freaking take Kubiak?). He's not doing too bad now this year, either.

What have you seen from any of our secondary to accuse them of having talent?

I've seen spurts from them. They have really just been in horrible positioning. I think with good (not even great coaching, just good because currently they're getting below average coaching) coaching, our defense will be much improved.

TexCanada
11-25-2010, 04:26 PM
I've seen spurts from them. They have really just been in horrible positioning. I think with good (not even great coaching, just good because currently they're getting below average coaching) coaching, our defense will be much improved.

I have to agree with this. I think that good coaching could at least get this defense to be slightly below average. Maybe even better over time. A slightly below average defense would have put us in a really good position to make playoffs this year.

97roc
11-26-2010, 07:27 AM
The limited talent point wasn't an excuse, more a fact. And that's due to Smithiaks four drafts. So yes, its on the coaching and the HC and GM who put those players on the field. And yes, I agree, a new DC would make a difference, but not so dramatic as everyone would hope. I just feel like there isn't any accountability on this team.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 08:06 AM
The only thing we "know" is that season ticket holders are DONE.

No, we don't "know" that.

Yes, we do.

I'm a season ticket holder, I am a PSL owner. I am not done.

No we don't.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 08:14 AM
What have you seen from any of our secondary to accuse them of having talent?




I've seen spurts from them. They have really just been in horrible positioning. I think with good (not even great coaching, just good because currently they're getting below average coaching) coaching, our defense will be much improved.

I agree. The talent is definitely not the issue. They've played extremely good in spurts, allowing our offense to come back & win from 20+ point defecits.

It's a matter of playing 60 minutes with the same intensity & ferociousness as those spurts.

I don't think it's a "positioning" thing, or I don't understand what that means. The Coaches don't (& shouldn't) have to tell the players exactly where they need to be every minute, they need to be smart enough to adjust depending on the route combinations they see.

Again, in those spurts, we can see that they "know enough" or "understand enough" to be better than their stats show.

Coaching..... I don't understand the "prevent" defense when it's the aggressive/attacking defense that has put us in position to win. I understand playing quarters or three deep, but the front 7 should be attacking..... 4 man rush?? C'mon man.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 08:17 AM
I just feel like there isn't any accountability on this team.

I don't understand why anyone would feel this way. Everyone in the secondary has been rotating for at least the last two weeks.

Lucky
11-26-2010, 08:33 AM
I just feel like there isn't any accountability on this team.

I don't understand why anyone would feel this way. Everyone in the secondary has been rotating for at least the last two weeks.
I think what 97roc means is that no player has been cut, no coach has been fired. The problem is, who would replace the players or the coaches?


I'm a season ticket holder, I am a PSL owner. I am not done.

I'm not done. But, I'm sure as hell not happy. And I do know paying fans that are fed up. I'm telling them to not give up, good things could happen this offseason. I truly believe that. If I'm wrong, I know there are fans that will be dumping their tickets. Will it be a mass exodus? Probably not. But it will be noticeable.

97roc
11-26-2010, 08:45 AM
[QUOTE=Lucky;1591141]I think what 97roc means is that no player has been cut, no coach has been fired. The problem is, who would replace the players or the coaches?


Thats exactly what I am saying. This whole CBA lockout thing could screw up our chances of landing a good coach and free agents. I am not that confident that the draft will solve our secondary. Accountability shouldn't have to wait till the offseason.

CloakNNNdagger
11-26-2010, 09:17 AM
[QUOTE=Lucky;1591141]I think what 97roc means is that no player has been cut, no coach has been fired. The problem is, who would replace the players or the coaches?


Thats exactly what I am saying. This whole CBA lockout thing could screw up our chances of landing a good coach and free agents. I am not that confident that the draft will solve our secondary. Accountability shouldn't have to wait till the offseason.

IF McNair has any intentions of changing HCs:

To make up for the consistently questionable product that has been offered to Texans fans from day one, despite the loom of the CBA issue, McNair should still be thinking of going one-up and EARLY after a big time coach like Cowher........even with the supposed "big money" crap shoot with the question of the 2011 season. Virtually everything that has been written implies that even if the lockout occurs, it will not effect anymore than the 1st month's games. If the remainder of this season plays out the way it is destined to, then hanging onto a "lame duck" coach just leaves us with yet another upcoming season totally down the shoot. At least if that new coach is ready and waiting to go, the building for success will have begun. And again, after fans have had to go so long without a winner, it's hard to see how McNair can justify not making a "big money" early offer and move on the basis of the fear of lockout which everyone knows will be short and sweet..........if it occurs at all.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 10:13 AM
[QUOTE=97roc;1591149]

IF McNair has any intentions of changing HCs:

To make up for the consistently questionable product that has been offered to Texans fans from day one, despite the loom of the CBA issue, McNair should still be thinking of going one-up and EARLY after a big time coach like Cowher........even with the supposed "big money" crap shoot with the question of the 2011 season. Virtually everything that has been written implies that even if the lockout occurs, it will not effect anymore than the 1st month's games. If the remainder of this season plays out the way it is destined to, then hanging onto a "lame duck" coach just leaves us with yet another upcoming season totally down the shoot. At least if that new coach is ready and waiting to go, the building for success will have begun. And again, after fans have had to go so long without a winner, it's hard to see how McNair can justify not making a "big money" early offer and move on the basis of the fear of lockout which everyone knows will be short and sweet..........if it occurs at all.

As you say, given this team's history, & McNair's history of giving Carr $8 million & walking papers, Dunta $10 million + walking papers, I don't see why he wouldn't give Kubiak the same "golden handshake."

But just like it wouldn't make sense for Kubiak to hire a third DC, it wouldn't make sense (to me) for McNair to hire a third head coach.

If I were McNair, & I had little-to-no faith that Kubiak would get us to the play-offs this season & contending for a championship, I would have already hired my director of football operations. At the very least, there would be stories of me talking to some football guy (maybe a Cowher) who would eventually get that position.

It may be that he feels Rick Smith is this guy, or at least will function in that role. I don't know. But that would seem odd to me.

Lucky
11-26-2010, 10:46 AM
As you say, given this team's history, & McNair's history of giving Carr $8 million & walking papers, Dunta $10 million + walking papers, I don't see why he wouldn't give Kubiak the same "golden handshake."
Dunta was (over)paid for a year's work. He didn't get a golden umbrella. But, the Texans have had a ton of dead money on the books, over the years. So, your point is totally valid.

infantrycak
11-26-2010, 11:02 AM
IF McNair has any intentions of changing HCs:

To make up for the consistently questionable product that has been offered to Texans fans from day one, despite the loom of the CBA issue, McNair should still be thinking of going one-up and EARLY after a big time coach like Cowher........even with the supposed "big money" crap shoot with the question of the 2011 season.

IF McNair is inclined to change coaches then it should be done now and he should have been on the phone with whoever he wants weeks ago to come in as interim coach. I think folks are underestimating the transition if there is a lockout. If you want a new coach next year then fire Kubiak, put Cowher in now and let the team have some time to hit the ground running once things get worked out next year. If you don't want that then I would keep Kubiak and blow at least Bush and Gibbs out of the D staff. I think that plus some aggression in what is likely to be a tumultuous FA season will lead to better results than an all new coaching staff with no time or connection to the team.

Dunta was (over)paid for a year's work. He didn't get a golden umbrella. But, the Texans have had a ton of dead money on the books, over the years. So, your point is totally valid.

Unlike the players, Kubiak will get paid whether he is fired or not. Shanahan is still getting paid by Denver and Gruden is still getting paid by Tampa.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 11:10 AM
No, we don't "know" that.



I'm a season ticket holder, I am a PSL owner. I am not done.

No we don't.

You certainly don't act like a PSL holder. No anger. No fire. Just satisfied with the bull**** trotted out on the field. You're a rare breed. Most season ticket holders, as I said, are fed up.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 11:12 AM
I think what 97roc means is that no player has been cut, no coach has been fired. The problem is, who would replace the players or the coaches?


I'm not done. But, I'm sure as hell not happy. And I do know paying fans that are fed up. I'm telling them to not give up, good things could happen this offseason. I truly believe that. If I'm wrong, I know there are fans that will be dumping their tickets. Will it be a mass exodus? Probably not. But it will be noticeable.

Exactly. That was my point. People who pay money for tickets have had enough. It's hard to believe that Thunder is a season ticket holder, to be honest.

NitroGSXR
11-26-2010, 11:27 AM
I think what 97roc means is that no player has been cut, no coach has been fired. The problem is, who would replace the players or the coaches?


I'm not done. But, I'm sure as hell not happy. And I do know paying fans that are fed up. I'm telling them to not give up, good things could happen this offseason. I truly believe that. If I'm wrong, I know there are fans that will be dumping their tickets. Will it be a mass exodus? Probably not. But it will be noticeable.
I sure hope so. I'll be looking to upgrade in the offseason as I have been the last two years.

Point being... even those who leave will be easily replaced. Our market's big enough.

Lucky
11-26-2010, 11:28 AM
I think folks are underestimating the transition if there is a lockout. If you want a new coach next year then fire Kubiak, put Cowher in now and let the team have some time to hit the ground running once things get worked out next year. If you don't want that then I would keep Kubiak and blow at least Bush and Gibbs out of the D staff.
See, I think the possibly of the lockout, and its repercussions regarding coaching changes, are being overblown. I seriuosly doubt NFL owners will kill the goose. And few players will want to sit out games on principle. Their careers are too short. A comprimise will likely be made, and we will have business as usual.

However if that's not the case, that does not rule out change. The defense would have to change, regardless. And just because Kubiak is gone, that doesn't mean the WCO is thrown out the door. Dennison and Knapp are still under contract. And there are always plenty of WCO disciples available in any given offseason. Keeping Kubiak based on convience, rather than merit, seems like an extraordinary bad idea. And something the players would see through. At some point, enough is enough. I think we're there.

JB
11-26-2010, 11:28 AM
I sure hope so. I'll be looking to upgrade in the offseason as I have been the last two years.

Point being... even those who leave will be replaced.

Yep!

Brisco_County
11-26-2010, 11:34 AM
[QUOTE=97roc;1591149]

IF McNair has any intentions of changing HCs:

To make up for the consistently questionable product that has been offered to Texans fans from day one, despite the loom of the CBA issue, McNair should still be thinking of going one-up and EARLY after a big time coach like Cowher........even with the supposed "big money" crap shoot with the question of the 2011 season. Virtually everything that has been written implies that even if the lockout occurs, it will not effect anymore than the 1st month's games. If the remainder of this season plays out the way it is destined to, then hanging onto a "lame duck" coach just leaves us with yet another upcoming season totally down the shoot. At least if that new coach is ready and waiting to go, the building for success will have begun. And again, after fans have had to go so long without a winner, it's hard to see how McNair can justify not making a "big money" early offer and move on the basis of the fear of lockout which everyone knows will be short and sweet..........if it occurs at all.

You're right, the lockout would be short, but its length of time is not the critical factor here; It's the absence of OTA's and camp.

Get the new staff in right now. That may not be how I or McNair would want to treat a decent and accomplished man like Kubiak, but that's the position we're in.

Lucky
11-26-2010, 11:39 AM
Get the new staff in right now.
The Rooney rule would put a wrench in your plans. Not to mention obligations some of the possible candidates currently possess. Change midseason isn't really workable. We just have to ride this out.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 11:51 AM
I sure hope so. I'll be looking to upgrade in the offseason as I have been the last two years.

Point being... even those who leave will be easily replaced. Our market's big enough.

I'm so freaking tired of hearing this. It is not true. Go to Houstontexan.com right now. There are already a TON of psl's and tickets available. We are not a historical franchise like the Green Bay Packers and the Washington Redskins, both of which have waiting lists-decades long. We are a relatively new franchise, and the big wait for tickets doesn't exist.

If McNair had a winning franchise, then, sure, PSL's would sell/trade really quickly. But we are mired in mediocrity, and the Texans have to appease those who currently hold tickets, because they know who pays the bills.

Go to Houstontexans.com, go under Tickets, then go to "Buy and sell psl's".

Tell me what you see.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 11:56 AM
See, I think the possibly of the lockout, and its repercussions regarding coaching changes, are being overblown. I seriuosly doubt NFL owners will kill the goose. And few players will want to sit out games on principle. Their careers are too short. A comprimise will likely be made, and we will have business as usual.

However if that's not the case, that does not rule out change. The defense would have to change, regardless. And just because Kubiak is gone, that doesn't mean the WCO is thrown out the door. Dennison and Knapp are still under contract. And there are always plenty of WCO disciples available in any given offseason. Keeping Kubiak based on convience, rather than merit, seems like an extraordinary bad idea. And something the players would see through. At some point, enough is enough. I think we're there.

Yep. That's what I've been saying. The NFL and it's effects on other businesses and industries are worth an astonishing amount of money. Probably hundreds of billions of dollars. That's too much money to be left on the table.

I seriously doubt if a lockout is coming.

Ole Miss Texan
11-26-2010, 11:59 AM
Yep. That's what I've been saying. The NFL and it's effects on other businesses and industries are worth an astonishing amount of money. Probably hundreds of billions of dollars. That's too much money to be left on the table.

I seriously doubt if a lockout is coming.

Local businesses (hotels, restaurants/bars, merchandise, etc) would suffer, the City's tax revenue would decline... it wouldn't be good.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 12:09 PM
Local businesses (hotels, restaurants/bars, merchandise, etc) would suffer, the City's tax revenue would decline... it wouldn't be good.

I used to live in Midtown, and there was this one pizza place I always ordered from. One Monday, I wanted to order from them, but they were closed. I didn't know they were closed on Mondays. When I saw the owner again, I asked him why he wasn't open on Mondays. He said he'd gotten a lot of request to open on Monday's because of Monday Night Football, and that he was considering it. Apparently, he told me a while later, he opened on Monday's and business increased quite a bit.

I know college students who work at sports bars, and in the summer they say they can't wait until fall because the NFL starts and that's when they make the most money.

The NFL is not a bull**** league. It is a serious brand and a business entitity.

Surreal McCoy
11-26-2010, 12:21 PM
I seriously doubt if a lockout is coming.


I think most people are of this view. The main issue I see is both sides taking it right up until the 11th hour before coming to an agreement. Thus putting any new coach in the position outlined by TK.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 02:02 PM
Exactly. That was my point. People who pay money for tickets have had enough. It's hard to believe that Thunder is a season ticket holder, to be honest.

First, the Fire Kubiak talk was going on back when we were 4-3..... didn't make any sense. We knew we were going to struggle on defense. We were struggling on defense.

Second, I think I've gotten my money's worth out of my season tickets the last two years. It would be nice to win, but I buy my tickets to be entertained. Last year & this year, they have been some very good games.

Third, I understand my last statement may sound bad, but it is what it is. Lamar State College has just started it's football program after having no football on the college level for the last 20 years. I buy tickets for those games as well, & I'm happy if they at least look like they belong on the field. I don't expect them to win a lot of games.

But I support them. I root for them, I cheer for them, I spend money to go to the games, buy their merchandise....... because I love football. I work with people who don't understand me, think I should do like them, get season tickets for the Cowboys, Saints, A&M, UT..... "winning traditions"

Bottom line, win or lose, I'm a Texan. If Kubiak can pull that rabbit out of his arse this year, great. If he don't & gets canned this year, great. If he don't & is back next year............. whatever. I'll still buy my tickets, I'll still root for the Texans.

If the Texans were playing bad football, I'd tell you, & I'd tell you what I think the problem is. I've been doing it all year. I've been doing it for the last 4 years for sure.

I expected the Texans to win more than 10 games this year. That's not going to happen. But I'm not going to stop rooting for the Texans to win....

DexmanC
11-26-2010, 02:20 PM
I'm a Texans fan for life.

I stopped being a Kubiak supporter last season.

Huge difference.

NitroGSXR
11-26-2010, 04:55 PM
I'm so freaking tired of hearing this. It is not true. Go to Houstontexan.com right now. There are already a TON of psl's and tickets available. We are not a historical franchise like the Green Bay Packers and the Washington Redskins, both of which have waiting lists-decades long. We are a relatively new franchise, and the big wait for tickets doesn't exist.

If McNair had a winning franchise, then, sure, PSL's would sell/trade really quickly. But we are mired in mediocrity, and the Texans have to appease those who currently hold tickets, because they know who pays the bills.

Go to Houstontexans.com, go under Tickets, then go to "Buy and sell psl's".

Tell me what you see.

I don't want to buy a PSL. I also prefer to deal with the organization rather than some fast slim from the local broker.

jshabang
11-26-2010, 05:16 PM
First, the Fire Kubiak talk was going on back when we were 4-3..... didn't make any sense. We knew we were going to struggle on defense. We were struggling on defense.

Second, I think I've gotten my money's worth out of my season tickets the last two years. It would be nice to win, but I buy my tickets to be entertained. Last year & this year, they have been some very good games.

Third, I understand my last statement may sound bad, but it is what it is. Lamar State College has just started it's football program after having no football on the college level for the last 20 years. I buy tickets for those games as well, & I'm happy if they at least look like they belong on the field. I don't expect them to win a lot of games.

But I support them. I root for them, I cheer for them, I spend money to go to the games, buy their merchandise....... because I love football. I work with people who don't understand me, think I should do like them, get season tickets for the Cowboys, Saints, A&M, UT..... "winning traditions"

Bottom line, win or lose, I'm a Texan. If Kubiak can pull that rabbit out of his arse this year, great. If he don't & gets canned this year, great. If he don't & is back next year............. whatever. I'll still buy my tickets, I'll still root for the Texans.

If the Texans were playing bad football, I'd tell you, & I'd tell you what I think the problem is. I've been doing it all year. I've been doing it for the last 4 years for sure.

I expected the Texans to win more than 10 games this year. That's not going to happen. But I'm not going to stop rooting for the Texans to win....

this statement explains explains everything I need to know about you and why u post like u do

I will no longer be in such a state of "WHAT IN THE WORLD DID TK JUST SAY".......Because I understand you know......you just go to reliant to be entertained.......winning is nothin a bonus if u will as long as you are entertained.....got it

wagonhed
11-26-2010, 06:41 PM
this statement explains explains everything I need to know about you and why u post like u do

I will no longer be in such a state of "WHAT IN THE WORLD DID TK JUST SAY".......Because I understand you know......you just go to reliant to be entertained.......winning is nothin a bonus if u will as long as you are entertained.....got it

Yeah, I think I agree, this does say a lot.


I actually don't enjoy teams that win all the time, like the Longhorns. That's why I don't watch college football. I like competition, and when the difference between a good season and a bad season is 12-0 vs 9-3, no thanks.

I probably would enjoy it less if the Texans won 14 games every year. I enjoy melodramatic teams and I enjoy comebacks from being down in the dumps, etc. But the important part is the competitive struggle, constantly trying EVERYTHING to get better and doing whatever is possible to making that happen. It's not a problem if you consistently do that and lose. The problem is when you don't consistently try.

TK seems to be ok with not consistently trying whatever it takes to win, and obviously that differentiates him from almost all the rest of us.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 06:59 PM
I don't want to buy a PSL. I also prefer to deal with the organization rather than some fast slim from the local broker.

Did you even read my post? Houstontexans.com is the official organization. The team itself acts as a broker to buy/sell psl's.

There are PLENTY of tickets still available.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 07:00 PM
I'm a Texans fan for life.

I stopped being a Kubiak supporter last season.

Huge difference.

Amen, bro. Rep.

NitroGSXR
11-26-2010, 07:11 PM
Did you even read my post? Houstontexans.com is the official organization. The team itself acts as a broker to buy/sell psl's.

There are PLENTY of tickets still available.

I read your post just fine. I think you whiffed on understanding mine.

Once again, I am not interested in buying PSLs. It does not fit my budget because I do not think that would be a fair investment for my family at this stage in our lives.

The Houston Texans ENDORSES the ticket exchange but they do nothing when it comes to the sales from it. That is left up to Joe "ihavethebestseatsintown" Blow and the buyer. I like having my ticket rep show me the options that become available annually.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 07:24 PM
I read your post just fine. I think you whiffed on understanding mine.

Once again, I am not interested in buying PSLs. It does not fit my budget because I do not think that would be a fair investment for my family at this stage in our lives.

The Houston Texans ENDORSES the ticket exchange but they do nothing when it comes to the sales from it. That is left up to Joe "ihavethebestseatsintown" Blow and the buyer. I like having my ticket rep show me the options that become available annually.

Let's try this one more time.

1) With hundreds of PSL's available, that means that people want to dump their tickets. That means that they are not satisfied with the team. If they can't sell their tickets, the tickets will automatically revert back to the team. Because the team is mediocre, there is not a long line for tickets; Therefore, they need to do what they can to appease CURRENT ticket holders. They can't simply say, "Oh well. There are other people waiting to buy tickets" because that is not true.

2) I have my own dedicated ticket representative with the team. I thought about upgrading a couple of years ago, and was told there were plenty then, and that every year a lot of people don't renew for whatever reason.

My point is this: Your comment about how there's a long line of people waiting for season tickets and therefore it won't matter if people cancel is INVALID.

JB
11-26-2010, 07:37 PM
Let's try this one more time.

1) With hundreds of PSL's available, that means that people want to dump their tickets. That means that they are not satisfied with the team. If they can't sell their tickets, the tickets will automatically revert back to the team. Because the team is mediocre, there is not a long line for tickets; Therefore, they need to do what they can to appease CURRENT ticket holders. They can't simply say, "Oh well. There are other people waiting to buy tickets" because that is not true.

2) I have my own dedicated ticket representative with the team. I thought about upgrading a couple of years ago, and was told there were plenty then, and that every year a lot of people don't renew for whatever reason.

My point is this: Your comment about how there's a long line of people waiting for season tickets and therefore it won't matter if people cancel is INVALID.


Don't know about all that, but there is a waiting list for season tickets. PSL's just guarantee a right to buy season tickets. There are many of us (I'm assuming this is what Nitro is trying to say) that cannot afford the PSL's on top of the season ticket costs.

Just because PSL's are available doesn't mean that there will be empty seats.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 07:46 PM
Yeah, I think I agree, this does say a lot.

If we're going to throw my words in my face, let's look at everything I said, & not focus on one particular statement.

I'm not in love with Kubiak, I don't think we should hold on to him at all costs. If we're not contending for a Super Bowl (which at the minimum means getting into the play-offs) by January, I think he should go.

I've said so many times.

I will however be in the stands come Sunday rooting for my team to win. I'll be there Monday Night, Dec 13th & January 2nd doing the same thing.

& as improbable as it may be, I will remind everyone as often as I get a chance that the season isn't over at 4-6.


I personally don't care. I want the Texans to win, if that means we need to split ways with Kubiak, then that's what I want done. I only hope McNair brings someone in, who knows what he's talking about, not only to decide that Kubiak needs to go.... but also on who replaces him.

10 years with no chance at a Super Bowl is bad..... 15 would be worse... 20 even more so.... etc, etc, etc...

At the very least, I hope he spends several days on this message board reading all the possible solutions.


I actually don't enjoy teams that win all the time, like the Longhorns. That's why I don't watch college football. I like competition, and when the difference between a good season and a bad season is 12-0 vs 9-3, no thanks.

The University of Houston has a bunch of die-hard fans, & have for years, A&M has a bunch of fans.. have for years. LSU had fans for decades before they even sniffed a championship.

Thousands of fans support their team, because there is a real connection between the fan & the team.

If all you care about is winning, then maybe you should move on, ask the Lions, there is no guarantee we'll ever win a championship. Ask the Cardinals (who've only recently been considered "winners" & it's already slipping away..... Ask the Bucs how long it took before they became a "successful franchise" or the Saints.

TK seems to be ok with not consistently trying whatever it takes to win, and obviously that differentiates him from almost all the rest of us.

You know, If we won every preseason game, the "fans" here would tell us not to make too much of it, it doesn't mean anything. If we start the season 2-0, the same fans would tell you "wait till week 12". If we're the #1 offense in the league, they'll tell you "stats are for losers"

But if we don't decimate an opposing team from the word go, run the score up 58 points in the first half, & shut out the opposing team... we need to fire the whole coaching staff, general manager, run the owner out of town & hire Bill Cowher.

The "realist" believe we should win the Super Bowl every year, & but the coaches don't have what it takes.

We are what our record says we are, & it's never been better than 9-7. But we want to believe that we underachieved, that we've been underachieving for years. We look like a 9-7 team, or an 8-8 team..... but I'm the one hitting the bong....

After 11 weeks, we're 4-6. The coach is crap, the team is crap, & there is no hope. The Jets were 4-6 this time last year, but Buddy Ryan was a genius, a man's man, a "heck of a motivator" blah, blah, blah... yadda, yadda, yadda.

I guess he forgot to motivate his team for those 6 games. I guess he took 6 weeks off from coaching.... & that's OK for him.

They had lost games to Miami (x2), Buffalo, Jacksonville, & the Patriots (our Colts). They had two 3 game losing streaks.

We're not the Jets..... we don't have games against Carolina, Buffalo, & Tampa Bay coming up...

But that doesn't mean all hope is lost, or I should stop rooting for my team. We'll handle offseason business in the offseason..... & I'll be a spectator when that business goes down...

I hope you'll be there... but there is no guarantee we'll be "instant winners" regardless what they do.

Texan_Bill
11-26-2010, 07:48 PM
Don't know about all that, but there is a waiting list for season tickets. PSL's just guarantee a right to buy season tickets. There are many of us (I'm assuming this is what Nitro is trying to say) that cannot afford the PSL's on top of the season ticket costs.

Just because PSL's are available doesn't mean that there will be empty seats.

Some people? :gun: I know some very good Texans fans that are long standing members of this board that had to give up their seats. Mostly because of their financial situation as related to the economy or other extenuating circumstances. The wait list for tickets is still strong. What I hope happens is that the Ticketmasters of the world go out of business so they have to sell off the tickets they own (the bastards)......


On another note I'll see you one of my PSL's (since it's not Thanksgiving anymore) for your d....... Nevermind. :D

NitroGSXR
11-26-2010, 07:48 PM
Let's try this one more time.

1) With hundreds of PSL's available, that means that people want to dump their tickets. That means that they are not satisfied with the team. If they can't sell their tickets, the tickets will automatically revert back to the team. Because the team is mediocre, there is not a long line for tickets; Therefore, they need to do what they can to appease CURRENT ticket holders. They can't simply say, "Oh well. There are other people waiting to buy tickets" because that is not true.

2) I have my own dedicated ticket representative with the team. I thought about upgrading a couple of years ago, and was told there were plenty then, and that every year a lot of people don't renew for whatever reason.

My point is this: Your comment about how there's a long line of people waiting for season tickets and therefore it won't matter if people cancel is INVALID.

So many of those PSLs are owned by... brokers. Give the average fan an opportunity to buy those then we'll talk semantics but nobody's been letting their PSLs expire. I know. I've been on that list for a while. It'd be bad business for a broker to allow his rights expire.

I'm telling you as a fan who has season tickets, I've had my eyes set on upgrading but the opportunity has not presented itself in a way that I've found to be very comfortable with. THAT in itself is valid.

Having the opportunity to purchase low row 30-40-50 yard line seats at face value is just something that isn't a reality with this fanbase as it is.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 07:49 PM
Don't know about all that, but there is a waiting list for season tickets. PSL's just guarantee a right to buy season tickets. There are many of us (I'm assuming this is what Nitro is trying to say) that cannot afford the PSL's on top of the season ticket costs.

Just because PSL's are available doesn't mean that there will be empty seats.

PSL's basically guarantee rights to playoff games at Reliant.

It is true that there are non-PSL season ticket packages. However, even those are up for sale.

Repeating my point yet again: The Texans can't take advantage of any season ticket holders and assume that someone is next in line. Especially in this economy.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 07:53 PM
So many of those PSLs are owned by... brokers. Give the average fan an opportunity to buy those then we'll talk semantics but nobody's been letting their PSLs expire. I know. I've been on that list for a while. It'd be bad business for a broker to allow his rights expire.

I'm telling you as a fan who has season tickets, I've had my eyes set on upgrading but the opportunity has not presented itself in a way that I've found to be very comfortable with. THAT in itself is valid.

Having the opportunity to purchase low row 30-40-50 yard line seats at face value is just something that isn't a reality with this fanbase as it is.

Are you kidding me? Low row 30-40-50 yard seats????

Those are the premium seats in the NFL. They go for tens of thousands of dollars, and most of the people who buy them are wealthy, and hold them. You won't find those seats ANYWHERE in the NFL. It's not just the Texans.

I've wanted to upgrade, and a chance presented itself, but I wasn't looking for 30-40-50-yard seats. To expect to get those seats without paying an extraordinary amount of cash borders on naieve.

JB
11-26-2010, 07:53 PM
If we're going to throw my words in my face, let's look at everything I said, & not focus on one particular statement.





The University of Houston has a bunch of die-hard fans, & have for years, A&M has a bunch of fans.. have for years. LSU had fans for decades before they even sniffed a championship.

Thousands of fans support their team, because there is a real connection between the fan & the team.

If all you care about is winning, then maybe you should move on, ask the Lions, there is no guarantee we'll ever win a championship. Ask the Cardinals (who've only recently been considered "winners" & it's already slipping away..... Ask the Bucs how long it took before they became a "successful franchise" or the Saints.


You know, If we won every preseason game, the "fans" here would tell us not to make too much of it, it doesn't mean anything. If we start the season 2-0, the same fans would tell you "wait till week 12". If we're the #1 offense in the league, they'll tell you "stats are for losers"

But if we don't decimate an opposing team from the word go, run the score up 58 points in the first half, & shut out the opposing team... we need to fire the whole coaching staff, general manager, run the owner out of town & hire Bill Cowher.

The "realist" believe we should win the Super Bowl every year, & but the coaches don't have what it takes.

We are what our record says we are, & it's never been better than 9-7. But we want to believe that we underachieved, that we've been underachieving for years. We look like a 9-7 team, or an 8-8 team..... but I'm the one hitting the bong....

After 11 weeks, we're 4-6. The coach is crap, the team is crap, & there is no hope. The Jets were 4-6 this time last year, but Buddy Ryan was a genius, a man's man, a "heck of a motivator" blah, blah, blah... yadda, yadda, yadda.

I guess he forgot to motivate his team for those 6 games. I guess he took 6 weeks off from coaching.... & that's OK for him.

They had lost games to Miami (x2), Buffalo, Jacksonville, & the Patriots (our Colts). They had two 3 game losing streaks.

We're not the Jets..... we don't have games against Carolina, Buffalo, & Tampa Bay coming up...

But that doesn't mean all hope is lost, or I should stop rooting for my team. We'll handle offseason business in the offseason..... & I'll be a spectator when that business goes down...

I hope you'll be there... but there is no guarantee we'll be "instant winners" regardless what they do.


This is pretty much where I am. However, if they lose this weekend, count me among those looking forward to the draft that a new regime is making. I'll be wanting them all gone.

infantrycak
11-26-2010, 07:54 PM
PSL's basically guarantee rights to playoff games at Reliant.

No they provide a specific set of rights over those of season ticket holders. A season ticket holder doesn't have the right to sell next seasons tickets to someone else. A season ticket holder can't will their seats to their kids. And season ticket holders can get playoff seats. They aren't the same plus playoff seats.

NitroGSXR
11-26-2010, 07:54 PM
PSL's basically guarantee rights to playoff games at Reliant.

It is true that there are non-PSL season ticket packages. However, even those are up for sale.

Repeating my point yet again: The Texans can't take advantage of any season ticket holders and assume that someone is next in line. Especially in this economy.

I'm guaranteed seats to the playoffs and I do NOT own PSLs. PSLs guarantee that one has the opportunity to renew their seats for the next season. I am not given the luxury of having that in writing being an average season ticket holder.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 07:59 PM
No they provide a specific set of rights over those of season ticket holders. A season ticket holder doesn't have the right to sell next seasons tickets to someone else. A season ticket holder can't will their seats to their kids. And season ticket holders can get playoff seats. They aren't the same plus playoff seats.

Ah, that's right. You are correct. Thanks for clarifying.

NitroGSXR
11-26-2010, 08:02 PM
No they provide a specific set of rights over those of season ticket holders. A season ticket holder doesn't have the right to sell next seasons tickets to someone else. A season ticket holder can't will their seats to their kids. They aren't the same.

A season ticket holder's opportunity to purchase can be revoked AT ANYTIME for ANY REASON. I'm always secretly concerned that I will lose my seats one year if (not if but when) the Texans decide to convert my seat into a PSL "opportunity."

FWIW, I purchased my seats from another person. I was able to get it transferred into my name.

JB
11-26-2010, 08:04 PM
A season ticket holder's opportunity to purchase can be revoked AT ANYTIME for ANY REASON. I'm always secretly concerned that I will lose my seats one year if (not if but when) the Texans decide to convert my seat into a PSL "opportunity."



That would suck! I surely hope that doesn't come to pass.

However, the more successfull the team becomes, the more in danger you are.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 08:13 PM
PSL's basically guarantee rights to playoff games at Reliant.

It is true that there are non-PSL season ticket packages. However, even those are up for sale.

Repeating my point yet again: The Texans can't take advantage of any season ticket holders and assume that someone is next in line. Especially in this economy.

Regardless, enough season tickets (& non-season tickets) get sold to make it a lucrative deal for Bob. He's not losing money, regardless how many season tickets are/are not on the market. If it is as bad as you say it is (& I have no idea other than it has been impossible for me to move down to rows A-E in sections 608 & 609, for the last two years), it's going to have to get a lot worse for Bob to feel it.

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 08:28 PM
A season ticket holder's opportunity to purchase can be revoked AT ANYTIME for ANY REASON. I'm always secretly concerned that I will lose my seats one year if (not if but when) the Texans decide to convert my seat into a PSL "opportunity."

FWIW, I purchased my seats from another person. I was able to get it transferred into my name.

I don't think they would do that to you. I hope not, anyway. I'm guessing that they appreciate your repeat business as a season ticket holder. Basic marketing states that it's a lot easier - and cheaper - to retain a current customer than it is to get a new one.

NitroGSXR
11-26-2010, 08:34 PM
I don't think they would do that to you. I hope not, anyway. I'm guessing that they appreciate your repeat business as a season ticket holder. Basic marketing states that it's a lot easier - and cheaper - to retain a current customer than it is to get a new one.

I bet they DO do it one day. Money has a funny way of holding people hostage.

CloakNNNdagger
11-26-2010, 09:23 PM
You don't find out what's really going on.........until you find out.

From The New York Post:

Giants reverse field on PSLs, offer single-game tickets (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/giants_reverse_field_on_psls_3XFHSVfj6kr78JzMJj2VX P)


From The Wall Street Journal:

High-Risk (Football) Real Estate
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703735004574575882676623084.html)

Owning your own little piece of real estate in Pittsburgh has been a great investment over the past decade or so. That is, when the real estate is a seat at the Pittsburgh Steelers' Heinz Field.

The average personal-seat license, or PSL, at the stadium, which confers the right to buy season tickets, sold initially for $1,067 in 1998, says STR Marketplace, which runs exchanges for trading PSLs. This year, Steelers' PSLs have changed hands for an average of $10,488, a gain of 883%. In contrast, average house prices in Pennsylvania's Allegheny County, where Pittsburgh is located, have risen only 29% since 1998, according to West Penn Multi-List, a real-estate-services firm.


http://sg.wsj.net/public/resources/images/MI-BA161_Footba_NS_20091204175304.gif

As an investment class, PSLs are high-risk. As you can only trade PSLs for 11 professional football teams, out of a total of 32, there is a paucity of data with which to analyze overall market trends. (The New York Giants and Jets are issuing PSLs for their new stadium, which opens in 2010.) Also, turnover in the PSL market is low: About 2% of seats change hands in any given year.

Still, this is a world that somehow has an appetite for leveraged exchange-traded funds.

And PSLs show some degree of moving independently of the broader economy. Houston enjoyed a 29% increase in nominal gross domestic product between 2005 and 2008, but the average price of a Houston Texans' PSL dropped 14%. Why? Even an oil boom couldn't fire up the Texans' play.

The National Football League's draft system for allocating players every season also, in theory, provides some rationale for buying on a team's "dips" in the hope of a cyclical recovery.

Still, there are drawbacks. For starters, if you want to enjoy the use of that seat, you need to spend extra money buying season tickets every year.

And however heroics on the field move the price, there is no escaping the economy's effects entirely: Teams like the Steelers and the Chicago Bears saw PSL prices slip this year, after having peaked, like much else, in 2008.

Indeed, the biggest gains largely have accrued to those who bought PSLs at the start. That makes sense. Like a company selling stock in an initial public offering, teams issuing PSLs want to maximize subscriptions so they can sell more tickets and merchandise. That makes for low initial selling prices and a high chance of future gains.

Realizing a gain on your PSL rests to a large degree on finding a greater fool, or fan, to sell to. Still, you could say that about a lot of mainstream asset classes, too.



I, too know several PSL ticket holders which have already had to give up their PSLs due to the economy. On top of what they could already not afford, one had to pay $250 transfer fee and the other $500 to transfer their tickets (remember, that is $500 dollars (seller and buyer both pay transfer fees) back into the Texans coffers for a $5000 PSL, and $1000 for a $10,000 PSL. A third person lost his entire PSL investment, since he could not afford to get a transfer completed under the "deadline."

There may be some silver lining, for some, for the Texans not making the playoffs during these bad economic times. For those who have reached their financial limits just by renewing their PSL season tickets to hold onto their PSL investment, I hope you know that you would be mandated to buy all playoff tickets played in Reliant whether you wanted them or not, or could afford them or not. Otherwise, your PSLs could be immediately revoked.

Section 6 of your PSL contract is an interesting read:

*Section 6 (a): "Licensee (PSL owner) has the right and obligation to purchase...season tickets for all team home games for as long as the Team plays its home games in the stadium. Licensee also has the right and obligation to purchase tickets for any Team post-season games played in the Stadium (excluding Super Bowl games)."

*Section 6 (b): "If Licensee does not purchase season tickets ...by a specified deadline each year, then Licensee's rights and obligation to purchase season tickets ...will terminate automatically without any notice given...and Licensee will forfeit all monies previously paid to the Licensor [and] all rights to buy season tickets ...for the upcoming season and all NFL seasons that follow. The Licensor will have the right to re-license the forfeited PSL with no further obligation to the Licensee."

*Section 6 (c): "If Licensee does not purchase tickets for Team post-season games played in the stadium by the date specified...then [the Texans] may sell the tickets to persons other than the Licensee. If [the Texans are unable to sell the tickets] then the Licensee shall remain obligated to pay for such tickets and the Licensee's right to transfer the PSL will be suspended until such time the Licensee has paid for such tickets..."

houstonspartan
11-26-2010, 11:06 PM
You don't find out what's really going on.........until you find out.

From The New York Post:

Giants reverse field on PSLs, offer single-game tickets (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/giants_reverse_field_on_psls_3XFHSVfj6kr78JzMJj2VX P)


From The Wall Street Journal:

High-Risk (Football) Real Estate
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703735004574575882676623084.html)





I, too know several PSL ticket holders which have already had to give up their PSLs due to the economy. On top of what they could already not afford, one had to pay $250 transfer fee and the other $500 to transfer their tickets (remember, that is $500 dollars (seller and buyer both pay transfer fees) back into the Texans coffers for a $5000 PSL, and $1000 for a $10,000 PSL. A third person lost his entire PSL investment, since he could not afford to get a transfer completed under the "deadline."

There may be some silver lining, for some, for the Texans not making the playoffs during these bad economic times. For those who have reached their financial limits just by renewing their PSL season tickets to hold onto their PSL investment, I hope you know that you would be mandated to buy all playoff tickets played in Reliant whether you wanted them or not, or could afford them or not. Otherwise, your PSLs could be immediately revoked.

Section 6 of your PSL contract is an interesting read:

*Section 6 (a): "Licensee (PSL owner) has the right and obligation to purchase...season tickets for all team home games for as long as the Team plays its home games in the stadium. Licensee also has the right and obligation to purchase tickets for any Team post-season games played in the Stadium (excluding Super Bowl games)."

*Section 6 (b): "If Licensee does not purchase season tickets ...by a specified deadline each year, then Licensee's rights and obligation to purchase season tickets ...will terminate automatically without any notice given...and Licensee will forfeit all monies previously paid to the Licensor [and] all rights to buy season tickets ...for the upcoming season and all NFL seasons that follow. The Licensor will have the right to re-license the forfeited PSL with no further obligation to the Licensee."

*Section 6 (c): "If Licensee does not purchase tickets for Team post-season games played in the stadium by the date specified...then [the Texans] may sell the tickets to persons other than the Licensee. If [the Texans are unable to sell the tickets] then the Licensee shall remain obligated to pay for such tickets and the Licensee's right to transfer the PSL will be suspended until such time the Licensee has paid for such tickets..."

Thanks for posting this.

So, in other words, PSL's for the Pittsburg Steelers - a historical franchise with multiple Super Bowl wins and a history of excellense - has increased in value, whereas PSL's for the Houston Texans have decreased a little bit? Gotcha.

This backs-up my thinking that not all is perfect in PSL/Season Ticket Land. In this economy, people have to make choices. If they are being fed a mediocre team, they are less likely to make the choice to renew. People will FIND a way to afford something - if they are getting something in return. Just ask New Orleans, which has a poor, broke-ass city but manage to sell out their old, decrepit dome for Saints games.

Damn, I forgot there was a transfer fee. Even if I did transfer my PSL's to someone else, in addition to the possibility that I may not make my PSL money back, I would also have to pay a heft fee JUST to transfer rights. Geez.

As for the playoff tickets, I knew I was legally obligated to purchase them but it has never bothered me because they'd be at face value. That's actually a bargain for an NFL playoff game.

steelbtexan
11-27-2010, 12:24 AM
I bet they DO do it one day. Money has a funny way of holding people hostage.

Yeah and you know how much Uncle BoB likes his $$$$$.

steelbtexan
11-27-2010, 12:29 AM
Thanks for posting this.

So, in other words, PSL's for the Pittsburg Steelers - a historical franchise with multiple Super Bowl wins and a history of excellense - has increased in value, whereas PSL's for the Houston Texans have decreased a little bit? Gotcha.

This backs-up my thinking that not all is perfect in PSL/Season Ticket Land. In this economy, people have to make choices. If they are being fed a mediocre team, they are less likely to make the choice to renew. People will FIND a way to afford something - if they are getting something in return. Just ask New Orleans, which has a poor, broke-ass city but manage to sell out their old, decrepit dome for Saints games.

Damn, I forgot there was a transfer fee. Even if I did transfer my PSL's to someone else, in addition to the possibility that I may not make my PSL money back, I would also have to pay a heft fee JUST to transfer rights. Geez.

As for the playoff tickets, I knew I was legally obligated to purchase them but it has never bothered me because they'd be at face value. That's actually a bargain for an NFL playoff game.

This is why I didn't buy PSL's the 2002 season.

thunderkyss
11-27-2010, 12:44 AM
So, in other words, PSL's for the Pittsburg Steelers - a historical franchise with multiple Super Bowl wins and a history of excellense - has increased in value, whereas PSL's for the Houston Texans have decreased a little bit? Gotcha.

This backs-up my thinking that not all is perfect in PSL/Season Ticket Land. In this economy, people have to make choices. If they are being fed a mediocre team, they are less likely to make the choice to renew.

.

I don't beliEve the article says what you think it Said.

In 2008, it says PSL prices dropped for the Steelers & the Bears, more of a reflection of the economy.

The Steelers PSLs have increased astronomically since the first PSL was sold, way back when, indicative of the investment value of a PSL. But that goes back many years before there was a Houston Texans franchise.

The bit about the average price of Texans tickets falling during a time of economic boom for the city of Houston was a different point altogether. As bad as they have been playing, they've been playing better than they had at any point prior to 2005. Expectations for the team has never been higher, so I find it hard to believe the value dropped because of their play. 2008, would be before Gary's contract was extended, so that can't have been the cause of the drop.

thunderkyss
11-27-2010, 12:52 AM
This is why I didn't buy PSL's the 2002 season.

If you read the article, 2002 would have been the most logical time to buy your PSL. As an investment, it's going to go up...what I think is misleading, is the time frame involved, and the cost of maintenance.

Even for a Steelers PSL the value of the PSL is dwarfed by the money spent to maintain, unless you are selling your tickets every year for no less than face value.

If you go because you enjoy football, being with friends & family, you'll never recover your money.

steelbtexan
11-27-2010, 01:06 AM
If you read the article, 2002 would have been the most logical time to buy your PSL. As an investment, it's going to go up...what I think is misleading, is the time frame involved, and the cost of maintenance.

Even for a Steelers PSL the value of the PSL is dwarfed by the money spent to maintain, unless you are selling your tickets every year for no less than face value.

If you go because you enjoy football, being with friends & family, you'll never recover your money.

TK, exactly

You are a wise man

LOL

playa465
11-27-2010, 05:39 AM
And this is why football to an owner is a BUSINESS...to the players its a JOB...and to us fans it's ENTERTAINMENT. My challenge question is who do you think it has the most meaning to and who has the most significant part in the equation?

thunderkyss
11-27-2010, 06:51 AM
And this is why football to an owner is a BUSINESS...to the players its a JOB...and to us fans it's ENTERTAINMENT. My challenge question is who do you think it has the most meaning to and who has the most significant part in the equation?

I honestly thought it meant as much to the owner as it did the fans, I was under the impression that the better the team did, the more money the owner made.

CnD posted an article recently that pretty much said the better the franchise does, the more money the team loses. Travel to & from play-off games are paid by the league at a flat rate, & franchises have to make up the difference. There were several other expenses listed & it made it appear that the franchises came out on the short end of the stick (Super Bowl rings for example).

So now, I don't know.

But when Bob McNair has former president Bush in the stands at least twice a year, & Jerry Jones, & other owners.... you'd think his pride would want him to be the best..... sometime.

NitroGSXR
11-27-2010, 07:05 AM
I honestly thought it meant as much to the owner as it did the fans, I was under the impression that the better the team did, the more money the owner made.

CnD posted an article recently that pretty much said the better the franchise does, the more money the team loses. Travel to & from play-off games are paid by the league at a flat rate, & franchises have to make up the difference. There were several other expenses listed & it made it appear that the franchises came out on the short end of the stick (Super Bowl rings for example).

So now, I don't know.

But when Bob McNair has former president Bush in the stands at least twice a year, & Jerry Jones, & other owners.... you'd think his pride would want him to be the best..... sometime.

This sounds like an article that needs to be reposted. I'd really like to read it. Sounds fascinating.

CloakNNNdagger
11-27-2010, 08:21 AM
I don't beliEve the article says what you think it Said.

In 2008, it says PSL prices dropped for the Steelers & the Bears, more of a reflection of the economy.

The Steelers PSLs have increased astronomically since the first PSL was sold, way back when, indicative of the investment value of a PSL. But that goes back many years before there was a Houston Texans franchise.

The bit about the average price of Texans tickets falling during a time of economic boom for the city of Houston was a different point altogether. As bad as they have been playing, they've been playing better than they had at any point prior to 2005. Expectations for the team has never been higher, so I find it hard to believe the value dropped because of their play. 2008, would be before Gary's contract was extended, so that can't have been the cause of the drop.

FWIW, a timeline. By the time of the publication of this article (November 2009), all final 2009 numbers were in. Kubiak's extension was announced February 2009, and Cushing's suspension May 2009 would have come after committment and prior to the deadline for final season ticket payments.

CloakNNNdagger
11-27-2010, 08:38 AM
I honestly thought it meant as much to the owner as it did the fans, I was under the impression that the better the team did, the more money the owner made.

CnD posted an article recently that pretty much said the better the franchise does, the more money the team loses. Travel to & from play-off games are paid by the league at a flat rate, & franchises have to make up the difference. There were several other expenses listed & it made it appear that the franchises came out on the short end of the stick (Super Bowl rings for example).

So now, I don't know.

But when Bob McNair has former president Bush in the stands at least twice a year, & Jerry Jones, & other owners.... you'd think his pride would want him to be the best..... sometime.

This sounds like an article that needs to be reposted. I'd really like to read it. Sounds fascinating.

Here is the article I believe TK is referring to.:

Do NFL Teams Profit from the Playoffs? (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/4020/do_nfl_teams_profit_from_the_playoffs.html?cat=3)T he Greater a Team's Success in the NFL Post Season, the More Profits They Lose

Lucky
11-27-2010, 08:59 AM
A quote from the article linked above:

Teams usually lose money during their post season play. However, a teamís value usually increases in following years with current season playoff success.
It's the team's value increasing that makes owners want to get to the playoffs and win. And it's not just about what they get when selling the team. They can borrow against the value of the team and make more $$$. The money they may lose going to the playoffs is a tiny fraction of the $$$ the franchise value can increase.

If you ever get a chance to buy a NFL team, do it. And try to get your team to the playoffs. You'll be glad you did.

houstonspartan
11-27-2010, 10:49 AM
A quote from the article linked above:


It's the team's value increasing that makes owners want to get to the playoffs and win. And it's not just about what they get when selling the team. They can borrow against the value of the team and make more $$$. The money they may lose going to the playoffs is a tiny fraction of the $$$ the franchise value can increase.

If you ever get a chance to buy a NFL team, do it. And try to get your team to the playoffs. You'll be glad you did.

Exactly. To imply that the Texans would lose money if they ever became successful is asinine, and total loser talk. Forget the sunk costs of spending money on airfare, meals, and the like. The aggregate value of this franchise would skyrocket.

McNair knows this.

JB
11-27-2010, 11:12 AM
Exactly. To imply that the Texans would lose money if they ever became successful is asinine, and total loser talk. Forget the sunk costs of spending money on airfare, meals, and the like. The aggregate value of this franchise would skyrocket.

McNair knows this.


Did someone do this?

CloakNNNdagger
11-27-2010, 11:46 AM
The NFL team franchise value increases are based on revenues. It matters not how it attains that revenue. And, of course, revenues are tied to expenditures. Performance may be a part of the formula. But in some cases, it may be a relatively small factor. Marketing trumps performance. Snake oil salesmen have always done well for themselves. Look at how a poorly performing team can boost renewed interest in their team by the hopeful promise of a seemingly good draft, or an exciting FA, or even a new coach. A perennial "non-performer" can feed on this "hope and change" phenomenon over and over. You don't have to look far. We have a team now that fits that bill. And this "snake oil sales" phenomenon can be seen to its grandest scale in another Texas town. What in the Cowboys' level of performance in the last decade justified their Forbes #1 sports franchise valuation?

"Snake oil sales" can be easier and very much more successful in large population cities like Houston (#4) and Dallas (#9). As one fan begins feeling like a sucker buying into a "dream," another can jump right in there taking up the slack.

Look, it is pretty evident that most of us here are passionate fans of our Texans. But it doesn't mean that we have to be blind to some of the things that are happening around us.

[For any statistitions out there, you may enjoy this very in depth article on what can go into determining the valuation of sports franchises.: Valuing Professional Sports Franchises: An Econometric Approach] (http://economics.about.com/library/weekly/aa043004g.htm)

jshabang
11-27-2010, 02:41 PM
If we're going to throw my words in my face, let's look at everything I said, & not focus on one particular statement.





The University of Houston has a bunch of die-hard fans, & have for years, A&M has a bunch of fans.. have for years. LSU had fans for decades before they even sniffed a championship.

Thousands of fans support their team, because there is a real connection between the fan & the team.

If all you care about is winning, then maybe you should move on, ask the Lions, there is no guarantee we'll ever win a championship. Ask the Cardinals (who've only recently been considered "winners" & it's already slipping away..... Ask the Bucs how long it took before they became a "successful franchise" or the Saints.


You know, If we won every preseason game, the "fans" here would tell us not to make too much of it, it doesn't mean anything. If we start the season 2-0, the same fans would tell you "wait till week 12". If we're the #1 offense in the league, they'll tell you "stats are for losers"

But if we don't decimate an opposing team from the word go, run the score up 58 points in the first half, & shut out the opposing team... we need to fire the whole coaching staff, general manager, run the owner out of town & hire Bill Cowher.

The "realist" believe we should win the Super Bowl every year, & but the coaches don't have what it takes.

We are what our record says we are, & it's never been better than 9-7. But we want to believe that we underachieved, that we've been underachieving for years. We look like a 9-7 team, or an 8-8 team..... but I'm the one hitting the bong....

After 11 weeks, we're 4-6. The coach is crap, the team is crap, & there is no hope. The Jets were 4-6 this time last year, but Buddy Ryan was a genius, a man's man, a "heck of a motivator" blah, blah, blah... yadda, yadda, yadda.

I guess he forgot to motivate his team for those 6 games. I guess he took 6 weeks off from coaching.... & that's OK for him.
They had lost games to Miami (x2), Buffalo, Jacksonville, & the Patriots (our Colts). They had two 3 game losing streaks.

We're not the Jets..... we don't have games against Carolina, Buffalo, & Tampa Bay coming up...

But that doesn't mean all hope is lost, or I should stop rooting for my team. We'll handle offseason business in the offseason..... & I'll be a spectator when that business goes down...

I hope you'll be there... but there is no guarantee we'll be "instant winners" regardless what they do.

hilarious......and its rex ryan...not buddy....but anyway

I see u saying in this statement yadda yadda yadda....which I'm assuming you are saying hes not a great motivator or mans mans........and u are comparing our 4-6 to there 4-6 last year

I will say this to you....he is a mans mans and supreme motivator and a very talented coach...the results speak for themselves and if u sayin yadda yadda yadda meaning you disagree I will say again THE RESULTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES

I will take a guy who u say must have forgot to coach for 6 weeks....then rights the ship gathers his troops and takes his team to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME ......in his first year as a ROOKIE coach.....with a ROOKIE QB to within a game of the superbowl......I will take that guy over kubiak anyday of the week and twice on sunday

not to mention the guys team this year is 9-2 tied for best record in the entire league with the new england patriots.....in only his second season mind you......this is what he has done with under 2 seasons......and our coach has had 5 seasons and we have yet to even see the post season....i would say one coach is possibly a lil better than the other....

and lets take your theory that ryan forgot how to coach for the first few weeks and had an identical record that we have right now......and be honest when u answer......do u feel kubiak has what it takes to rally these troops and get us to a afc championship game like ryan did???? thats laughable to even envision.....not to mention that even in there losses rex didnt have the worse nfl defense in history

lets face it....kubiaks work is done here......hes a good guy......a great coordinator and coach but he has taken us as far as he can.......and i applaud him for that....this is a team full of talent that needs just a few tweaks to be really good and a perenial contender....so kubiak is to be commended for that....we have a very good team in houston that is underperfroming for some reason.....and it screams of coaching bottomline

OrdinaryAvgGuy
11-27-2010, 03:12 PM
THis is a big excuse for Kubes Corrosion. These have been the same horrid mistakes for the last three years. It's always "someone has to make a play" for this team." These sound like the same excuses that people have made over and over for Yao Ming over the years and that has put the Rockets in a corner, and it's putting the Texans in a corner right now once again just like it did in the Capers era. If Mcnair brings Kubiak back for another season, he's stating that he doesn't give a damn about having a winning team and 9 years into this franchise will say enough about Mcnair as an owner. I won't root for this team under Kubes anymore. The guy's a loser, and any other franchise that had an owner that was committed to winning would have fired Kubes already with how embarrassing this team is. The fact that this team has these constant meltdowns every week and this has gone on for 3 seasons now makes this franchise and this fan base look really weak at this point for accepting it.

I'm not a huge Kubiak fan. I'd like to see someone new in here as much as the next guy (well, maybe not quite as much - some of you folks are more than a little emphatic - but I do think it is time to move on).

But McNair's decision (or indecision) concerning the head coach position is not indicative of his desire for the franchise to win. He wants to see the team win, and if he chooses not to bring in a big name HC it is definitely not about the bottom line.

Frankly, the easiest way for him to generate some buzz about the franchise would be to bring in a Cower, Gruden, Parcells, or Dungy. The media would be all over it. If he chooses not to go that way, it will be about what he sees as the best choice for the franchise.

My personal opinion is that, of all the name coaching options out there, Dungy is the one that best fits the kind of image that McNair sees for the Houston Texans.

thunderkyss
11-27-2010, 04:25 PM
I see u saying in this statement yadda yadda yadda....which I'm assuming you are saying hes not a great motivator or mans mans........and u are comparing our 4-6 to there 4-6 last year

I will say this to you....he is a mans mans and supreme motivator and a very talented coach...the results speak for themselves and if u sayin yadda yadda yadda meaning you disagree I will say again THE RESULTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES

I will take a guy who u say must have forgot to coach for 6 weeks....then rights the ship gathers his troops and takes his team to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME ......in his first year as a ROOKIE coach.....with a ROOKIE QB to within a game of the superbowl......I will take that guy over kubiak anyday of the week and twice on sunday

Let's race, you & me. First one to Louisiana wins. I'm about 15 minutes from Louisiana right now, I'm guessing you're somewhere close to Houston. If I get there first, does that mean I'm faster than you? A better runner? better driver? Does that mean you can't navigate?

Rex inherited a top 10 defense & a top 10 running game. Kubiak inherited a team that was ranked 28th or lower in most categories.


and lets take your theory that ryan forgot how to coach for the first few weeks and had an identical record that we have right now......and be honest when u answer......do u feel kubiak has what it takes to rally these troops and get us to a afc championship game like ryan did???? thats laughable to even envision.....not to mention that even in there losses rex didnt have the worse nfl defense in history

They had 20th ranked offense in 2009. I'm sure there were plenty of games where they looked putrid. They were also shut out this year.... I think that's a very small group.

& yes, I think Gary can rally this team to 5 more wins (That's all Ryan did from this point last year) & if that gets this team into the play-offs, I think they are very dangerous, & can run the table.

No doubt about it.

lets face it....kubiaks work is done here......

He's got 6 more games.