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View Full Version : Keep hands off Spears


DRIFTAWAY
04-02-2005, 06:41 PM
I understand Spears is a nice prospect but we need to stay away from him IMO. Out of all the people projected to be drafted in the top half of the first round i would only say he and Cadillac Williams have big percentages of busting for that high of a pick. Also, he wouldn't be a starter this year on that front line, and if selected at #13 he would recieve way too much money for a rookie backup. I think he can easily be a bust, or still become a decent player, but over-rated. I see him no better than a Jerry Deloach or a Marcellus Wiley( the version of him while he was in Dallas.)

D-ReK
04-02-2005, 06:47 PM
I'm not sure I buy Spears being a bust...He may not start his rookie season, but we're trying to rotate our D-Linemen routinely in order to keep Walker, Payne, and Smith fresh...That said, we already have a lot of money (perhaps too much) tied up in the D-Line, but I think that the 13th overall pick only stands to make about 1-1.5M per year...The thing that I don't like about drafting a DE in the first is that there are plenty of productive 3-4 linemen that are taken in the middle to late rounds...I'm conflicted on him, but if we were to pick him, I'd be happy...

DRIFTAWAY
04-02-2005, 06:50 PM
i personally wouldnt be happy at all, as we can hold out to take Rod Wright next yr.

D-ReK
04-02-2005, 06:55 PM
If we're able to take Rodrique Wright next year, who would play NT and not DE btw, it would mean that our 2005 season was a complete failure...Wright will likely be the first DT taken next year...

DRIFTAWAY
04-02-2005, 06:57 PM
next yr's draft will have some nice talent going early too, which would leave Wright dropping down to maybe 7-12, and we can trade up, because he is surely talented enough to trade up for. and we could use a DT as Payne is getting up there in age and quality.

Grid
04-02-2005, 07:22 PM
I think Rod Wright or Hlatoi Ngata next year would both be great.. and you dont have to have a sucky year to get a top ten draft pick :)..you just have to be willing to pay for it.

DRIFTAWAY
04-02-2005, 07:27 PM
my point exactly. I'd prefer texas-groomed Wright though.

Plus could you imagine having to scream Hlatoi Ngata every time he made a play?

Hottoddie
04-02-2005, 07:34 PM
If we're able to take Rodrique Wright next year, who would play NT and not DE btw, it would mean that our 2005 season was a complete failure...Wright will likely be the first DT taken next year...


If everything I've read about Ngata is true & he's healthy, he should be the 1st DT taken. In any event, it's going to be a deep 1st round with guys like:

Matt Leinart (QB)
Reggie Bush (RB)(underclassman)
Andrew Whitworth (OT)
Max Jean-Gilles (OT)
Eric Winston (OT)
D'Brickashaw Ferguson (OT)
Marcus McNeill (OT)
Winston Justice (OT)(underclassman)
Mathias Kiwanuka (DE)
Rodrique Wright (DT)
Gabe Watson (DT)
Orien Harris (DT)
Haloti, Ngata (DT)(underclassman)
Ahmad Brooks (ILB)(underclassman)
A.J. Hawk (OLB)
Darnell Bing (SS)(underclassman)

That's 16 players right there, and these are just the guys that most posters were hoping would come out for this year's draft. This list doesn't include any WR's, players that I don't know of (I'm not real familiar with college talent), or any of the players that will most assuredly step up their games next year. How about Adrian Peterson? He'll have 2 years of eligibility under his belt & would probably be the 1st overall pick. Maybe, he should be added to that list?

By the way, I'm not real excited about taking Spears with the 13th pick. I just have a problem with a player that's trying to earn a spot on an NFL team, taking plays off during his interview process (college career). In other words, he doesn't go all out on every play. I've read this on at least a dozen different write ups about him.

DRIFTAWAY
04-02-2005, 07:37 PM
i wouldnt be 100% of reggie bush coming out, because he wont be a 1rst overall pick with his teammate leinart there. If he was so stick around for his senior year, he would be the man running the show on offense and woould be in the national spotlight all year, and making him a sure top pick in the draft after that

wags
04-02-2005, 07:40 PM
I don't think we'll take Spears. It seems like we'll go after something else since we resigned Payne, Ioane, Deloach and Sears. Spears seems like he is this years Wilfork. A perfect fit in the 3-4, but a player that we will pass on.

nunusguy
04-02-2005, 08:23 PM
Of our starting DL, none were taken with a pick higher than the 4th round.
Supposedly that's one of the economies of the 3-4 D - you can draft the
"tackle type" linemen you need in the mid or late rounds. Spears, because of
his outstanding athletecism for a 290-300 pounder, may be more in demand
by a 4-3 team.

wags
04-02-2005, 08:28 PM
Spears, because of
his outstanding athletecism for a 290-300 pounder, may be more in demand
by a 4-3 team.

I think KC may have been the only team to have their head coach at the workout. If they get Surtain, then I could see KC going after a guy like Spears.

keyfro
04-02-2005, 09:36 PM
there is nothing wrong with spears...everyone who is down on him because he ran a 40 of about 5.04 needs to take a step back and just breath...40 times are way way overrated...true he wouldn't be a starter from day one but how often are walker and payne injuried?...a lot...i'd say we move deloach over to NT and spears being the main back up at the end position...given walker's drop in productivity and health concerns it would make sense to draft he's future replacement and start grooming him today

TigerBait
04-02-2005, 11:43 PM
Watching this guy for 3 years, he is a physical specimen. He has the ability to bull rush as well as him quick inside/outside moves. His combine numbers may have been dissapointing but he had high expectations and rightfully so as the top DE prospect; he still has great speed off the outside for a DE. Your entitled to your opinion as i am, and ill say he will not be a bust.

BornOrange
04-03-2005, 03:12 AM
I would love to have Spears. The Texans need to have a pass rush from the D-line to take some pressure off the OLB's and Spears would really help doing that. When Walker had his Pro Bowl year in 2002 and had 6.5 sacks the defense was pretty effective, especially considering how inept the offense was. When the Texans go to a 4-2-5 look on passing downs I would love to see Spears and Walker supplying the inside rush with Babin and Peek coming from the outside and Wong or Greenwood blitzing up the middle.

For those who say that a 3-4 shouldn't spend first rounders on the D-line, look at the Patriots. They have spent first rounders on D-Linemen quite often lately, drafting Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren and Richard Seymour in the first round in three of the last four drafts.

DRIFTAWAY
04-03-2005, 10:22 AM
We have more important needs than drafting a backup. You just dont go around with the 13th pick and drafting a backup.

BornOrange
04-03-2005, 12:58 PM
He wouldn't be a "backup".

People need to learn that in the NFL there are not just 11 "starters" on defense and everyone else is a backup. With everything so specialized you have different packages for main defense, short-yardage situations and passing situations with some players being part of both and some being part of one. If the Texans draft Spears he would be part of a three man rotation at DE in the main defense which would help keep Walker and Smith fresh. He would be a starter in the passing defense in place of Smith to help improve the pass rush. Against some teams like the Colts Spears would be playing more than Smith because the Texans would probably be in a nickle package as their base defense against Peyton Manning.

Two years ago the Patriots drafted Ty Warren with the 13th pick and made him a backup. The Texans don't have the same depth as the Patriots, but there aren't a lot of positions where a first rounder taken with the 13th pick would definitely come in and start right away for the Texans. And Casserly isn't going to pass up a player he has rated highest available just because he wouldn't be starting right away unless the position is quarterback.

Spears is a special talent who is perfectly suited for 3-4 defensive end. Other than Derrick Johnson, Spears is the player I would most like to see drop to 13. In fact, if Johnson or Spears isn't available I would prefer to trade down in the draft and get extra picks even if Benson is available.

Wolf
04-03-2005, 01:03 PM
We have more important needs than drafting a backup. You just dont go around with the 13th pick and drafting a backup.


I agree with that but I am trying to think who would come in and start

Would Barron really be an upgrade over Wand at this point? Does the Texans want a rookie at LT?
CB...noone is going to start over Glenn/D-rob, yet I wouldn't mind in 2nd round to get a CB to groom
LB...I can see DJ starting in ILB position...Davis moves inside...he might be the darkhorse at #13 for us... he play ILB now and possibly move to FS when coleman retires in afew..who knows
DL--we like to rotate our guys in so at 13. who would kick walker/payne or smith out of the starting rotation.
WR--williams would start...
TE..not anyone worth 13th IMO

DRIFTAWAY
04-03-2005, 01:40 PM
If we end up taking any of the top 3 recievers (Edwards, Williams, Williamson) they would start. DJ or Thomas Davis would start. Theres a possibility that they would start Barron just to get him to develop faster.

Hottoddie
04-03-2005, 02:34 PM
I'd prefer that we trade down for an extra pick & pick up Matt Roth.

Roth has a non-stop motor, a mean streak a mile wide, is faster & quicker than Spears, & will require less polishing than Spears. Roth doesn't "shut down his motor when his initial move fails in his attempts to disengage from the blocker" (that's a direct quote about Spears from NFL.com's player profiles). Also, Roth has played with this kind of intensity throughout his college career.

Spears may have all the talent in the world, but I have a problem with players/people that don't give their all, at whatever they're doing, all the time. Spears has been inconsistent throughout his college career. At least, until the 2nd half of last year. Maybe, he's finally gotten it, but I tend to think that his future agent, or someone close to him, convinced him to turn up his game in order to improve his draft position.

Roth has played with such a high intensity every time he stepped on the field, that the coaches had to hold him back in practices, for fear that he'd hurt one of his own offensive players. He's got a mean streak that the Texan's could use on the line & he plays like he's on a "Search & Destroy" mission. I really like this kid.

I love this write up on Roth from DraftDaddy.com.

MATT ROTH (http://www.draftdaddy.com/prospects/mattRoth.cfm)

http://www.draftdaddy.com/images/players/mattRoth3.jpg

In terms of demeanor on the football field, Matt Roth is one of our favorite players in this entire draft. He compares with former Cowboy Randy White {a.k.a the Manster}. Although their positions differ {White was a DT}, both men possessed that raw God-Given Power which differs from weight-room strength. Roth, like Manster, looks like he's been chopping down redwoods since he was six years old he has that same type of rawbone/lumberjack power. That's not to say he's one dimentional, as he's pretty darn quick to boot, with outstanding pass rush handplay. And best of all this guy's meaner than a rattle-snake. He's got that Butkus mentality ... as Paul Hourning once said, he plays football like he HATES YOU.

We watched Roth versus some of the best senior OT's in the nation at the Senior Bowl and he made them look completely over-matched ... ALL DAY ... had them playing on roller-skates. It's become a cliche but Roth truly has a non-stop motor to match his low center of gravity and great upfield burst. There was a story out of 2002 Iowa spring practice that Roth once got so fired up during drills that after another player pulled his facemask, Roth responded by ripping off the facemask entirely off the opposing player's helmet- the story gets better when it's revealed that the "other player" was man-mountain #2 overall selection Robert Gallery.

It's been a long time since we've seen a DE overwhelm bigger OT's with such force and a desire to make the play. Come to think of it, Matt Roth also reminds us of former NY Jet All-Pro defensive end, Joe Klecko. That might be an even better comparison than Manster, since neither man was blessed with prototypical measurements for their position, but both have the heart to be counted among the best in the league. Although most boards have many players higher than Roth at the DE position, we are convinced that Matt Roth is going to be a force in the NFL, and wherever he is selected it will be a steal.

D-ReK
04-03-2005, 03:13 PM
If we end up taking any of the top 3 recievers (Edwards, Williams, Williamson) they would start. DJ or Thomas Davis would start. Theres a possibility that they would start Barron just to get him to develop faster.

Do you really want Carr to be working behind an unmotivated rookie at LT this year? We won't just throw Barron out there to "develop" him at the expense of our franchise QB...

TexansCanes
04-03-2005, 10:15 PM
i understand that you don't like the guy and don't want us to draft him, but you didn't say why he is going to be a bust. if you are going to say something like that you need something to back it up. atleast the people that are against dj have a reason they say that. your only reason is because he would be a back up, but it's not like he would sit on the bench in street cloths, he would probably get some very good pt and might get into the starting line up by mid season. also, can you give me a reason why he wouldn't have a chance to start since you already have every other player that we might draft penciled into the starting line-up.

keyfro
04-03-2005, 10:56 PM
barron wouldn't be a bad pick because look at our roster of OT's...it's horrible...besides Wade we have no sure starter and the other guys gerrick jones probably wouldn't make the final roster cut on half the NFL teams...marcus spears is very good back up and has been for years but currently we haven't resigned him...seth wand might develop into a solid LT but he needs mckinney and wiegert to step up there game pitts is solid just needs more help inside like wand does...but the one thing wand needs to show this training camp is that he can take on the speed rushers...otherwise the best he'll be is flozell adams who can run block but not pass block

wags
04-03-2005, 11:05 PM
marcus spears is very good back up and has been for years but currently we haven't resigned him...

I thought Spears was terrible this past year. In no way would I consider him a good backup.

edo783
04-04-2005, 10:54 AM
The real problem with Barron (and it's been said many times in many publications/sites) is that he doesn't seem to have any passion for football and may not even like it. IMO, a LT needs to have passion, even a mean streak to be any good. No matter how good the skills are, without real passion, they will amount to little. And on the skill side, he is the best of a limited group. As Vinny says, that's kind of like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

DRIFTAWAY
04-04-2005, 04:47 PM
i understand that you don't like the guy and don't want us to draft him, but you didn't say why he is going to be a bust. if you are going to say something like that you need something to back it up. atleast the people that are against dj have a reason they say that. your only reason is because he would be a back up, but it's not like he would sit on the bench in street cloths, he would probably get some very good pt and might get into the starting line up by mid season. also, can you give me a reason why he wouldn't have a chance to start since you already have every other player that we might draft penciled into the starting line-up.

I dont care what anyone says, but he isnt the biggest playmaker out there. At best he is only a decent pass rusher off the edge, and might only be fitted to play DT. We want a DE. Also he isn't much motivated, and doesnt bring much intensity, as he doesnt use all of his abilites.


And as for Barron... who said he " unmotivated", In my opinion there probably is nothing that can motivate a rookie more than selecting him high than starting him.

TexansCanes
04-04-2005, 08:01 PM
Also he isn't much motivated, and doesnt bring much intensity, as he doesnt use all of his abilites.

how do you know he isn't motivated? i will also asked you what you want as a de? he is physically what you want when it comes to size. if you are looking for someone as peppers or freeney, you should stop looking. i'm not saying you are wrong but if you are going to make claims like that, you should come with something to back it up.

BornOrange
04-04-2005, 08:30 PM
Sometimes college players think they can get by on physical ability or they know there is a big dropoff in talent when their backup comes in so they take some plays off to conserve energy. If either of those is the case with Spears the Texans should be able to find out in all the interviews they do with Spears and his coaches. They will then be able to rid him of that habit by rotating him in and letting him know that he can go all out each play and that he doesn't have to stay out there all game.

I have also seen reports that Spears takes plays off. However, every report also says that Spears is a good character guy and a team leader. That makes me believe that he will respond to coaching and can break whatever bad habits he developed in college. Gary Walker and Robaire Smith will be good role models for him to learn from.

Having a guy like Marcus Spears playing DE for the Texans would do wonders for the Texans pass rush, because he can provide something the Texans have only had in their first year......a pass rush from a defensive lineman. That would open up all kinds of opportunities for the OLB's to get to the quarterback.

And anyone saying that Spears isn't a DE is talking about him in a 4-3 defense. He is perfect for a 3-4 DE.

michaelm
04-05-2005, 11:12 AM
I loved the write up on Roth. That's the kind of player I'd like to have. We need an intimidater on D. The part about ripping Gallery's face mask off almost have me the chills... I think I might be getting a man-crush on this guy!!!

dmt217
04-06-2005, 11:25 AM
I dont care what anyone says, but he isnt the biggest playmaker out there. At best he is only a decent pass rusher off the edge, and might only be fitted to play DT. We want a DE. Also he isn't much motivated, and doesnt bring much intensity, as he doesnt use all of his abilites.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8295677

The secondary concerns remain the same no matter which front the team plays, so the construction concerns are all about the front seven players. The nose tackle should be in the 330-pound range (i.e. Ted Washington), the outside linebacker needs to have great pass rush skills and some pass coverage skills (i.e. Mike Vrabel), the inside linebacker needs to be close to 6-foot-3 and 250 pounds (i.e. Ted Johnson) and the defensive ends need to be close to 6-5 and 300 pounds (i.e. Richard Seymour).

DRIFTAWAY
04-06-2005, 04:35 PM
how do you know he isn't motivated? i will also asked you what you want as a de? he is physically what you want when it comes to size. if you are looking for someone as peppers or freeney, you should stop looking. i'm not saying you are wrong but if you are going to make claims like that, you should come with something to back it up.


These claims are soley based on reports i have heard, although a link cannot be provided, others have also admitted to hearing these reports. The guy is great physically and would add tremoundous size, but he takes alot of plays off and might not be the player we are looking for. And the part of him being a bust i was not claiming that he will absolutly be a bust, but that out of all the other top prospects in this draft he has the largest chance of being a bust.

DRIFTAWAY
04-09-2005, 05:00 PM
I have been checking newly released mocks as of late, and a big portion of them now having spears falling into the late teen's

D-ReK
04-12-2005, 03:05 AM
I have been checking newly released mocks as of late, and a big portion of them now having spears falling into the late teen's

Such as? Most of the ones I've seen have him either being taken 10th, 11th, or 12th...Right now, most mocks still aren't accurate anyway, though, so it's hard to base an argument on fantasy draft picks...

outofhnd
04-12-2005, 06:02 AM
I think he goes to SD at 12

Their DL situation is uglier than ours. we are gonna go Ware id like to see a DL in our 3-4 scheme do the things he can do like get his hands up and possibly pick off passes and at least make some athletic plays from the DL poisiton something we have not had since 02

We Can get a FS in a year or 2 Coleman is excellent at FS for now and earl can only improve. I watched him in college he was very good.

LB we can get by with what we have and probably be more productive then last years group. But id like to see us get another pass rush specialists that could rest both Babin and peek.

CB next year.

WR no real pressing need for a round 1 wide reciever.

TE no real top tier TE talent this year. (In Joppru we trust) it is a big need

OL - more top tier talent at o line next year if still a problem this year.

DL - often injured aging Line that cannot get any penetration nor fill the gaps on running plays. Deloach is ok but not really powerful. Walker seems to have nagging injuries every year and as he gets older they will only be more frequent. Why wouldnt you put a young guy like Spears in that lineup put some energy out there. and nothing inspires an older guy to work like the idea of a younger guy taking your job. We need DL this year whehter its Spears or elsewhere.

TexansTrueFan
04-12-2005, 06:29 AM
all in favor of matt roth say I,,,,,,,I, boy looks to have a little intensity :thumbup and thats always a plus.

outofhnd
04-12-2005, 06:43 AM
i would like for us to get Ware, I think him in an OLB rotation with Peek and Babin would be a very confusing scheme. I think Jovan Haye could be good in round 3 for D line, as well as Bryant for NT.