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utahmark
11-21-2010, 04:02 PM
I think he is maturing as a coach. I like the fact he ran the ball 3 times with foster and did'nt try some bs play to let the clock stop. Make the other team go 80 yards in 50 sec with no time outs. I can't see how any person with any real football knowledge disagrees with that. I think his team was prepared to play even after the horrible loss last week. The team does'nt quit. I think he is turning into a good head coach that did'nt know much about the defensive side of the ball and he listened to the wrong people. With any type of defense we are 8 and 2 this year.

there are two conditions. first the team must keep playing at a high level for the rest of this year. Next we have to replace Bus. Kubiak should hand the defense over to the new guy and stay out of the way, draft picks included and he also should not have a vote in who the new guy is. That should be left to Mcnair and Smith.

I can't argue if he is fired, i'm just saying what I would do.

BSofA04
11-21-2010, 04:03 PM
Bob is that you???

hradhak
11-21-2010, 04:04 PM
I actually agree with you on this. I think firing him is a defensible position, but this d coordinator is killing us. I also don't think you allow Kubiak to pick out the d coordinator. Get someone who is proven and clean house with the position coaches on defense. These guys need to start over from the ground up.

Rey
11-21-2010, 04:05 PM
Honestly, depending on how the rest of the season goes I may decide that I'd want to keep Kubiak around.

But there neeeds to be major changes on the defense...

As much as I have bashed on Kubiak though, I want to atleast see how he does the rest of this season before I officially call for his head.

ATXtexanfan
11-21-2010, 04:05 PM
i say we jump utah mark

OzzO
11-21-2010, 04:05 PM
:popcorn:

stingray
11-21-2010, 04:06 PM
You can't keep a coach who has hired Richard Smith and Frank Bush.

Pantherstang84
11-21-2010, 04:06 PM
I actually agree with you on this. I think firing him is a defensible position, but this d coordinator is killing us. I also don't think you allow Kubiak to pick out the d coordinator. Get someone who is proven and clean house with the position coaches on defense. These guys need to start over from the ground up.

If a head coach can't be trusted to hire a DC, he can't be trusted as a HC.

gary
11-21-2010, 04:08 PM
This team is not winning keep Gary my butt.

wagonhed
11-21-2010, 04:08 PM
If a head coach can't be trusted to hire a DC, he can't be trusted as a HC.
this. His two DC hires, and his last OC hire, indicate to me that loyalty and friendship is more important than winning. He simply can't be trusted to put the teams interest first.

Trap_Star
11-21-2010, 04:10 PM
yeah, at least he can walk around and give the tour of the facility to Cowher before he's out the door.

MEGA SWATT
11-21-2010, 04:12 PM
From what I have seen and heard of him, Kubiak is a great person, a great human being and class act. However, as a head coach in the NFL, he is just NOT getting it done. No playoffs and he needs to go.

Showtime100
11-21-2010, 04:12 PM
I think he is maturing as a coach. I like the fact he ran the ball 3 times with foster and did'nt try some bs play to let the clock stop. Make the other team go 80 yards in 50 sec with no time outs. I can't see how any person with any real football knowledge disagrees with that. I think his team was prepared to play even after the horrible loss last week. The team does'nt quit. I think he is turning into a good head coach that did'nt know much about the defensive side of the ball and he listened to the wrong people. With any type of defense we are 8 and 2 this year.

there are two conditions. first the team must keep playing at a high level for the rest of this year. Next we have to replace Bus. Kubiak should hand the defense over to the new guy and stay out of the way, draft picks included and he also should not have a vote in who the new guy is. That should be left to Mcnair and Smith.

I can't argue if he is fired, i'm just saying what I would do.

I love that those two segments were written by the same person in the same post.

Kubiak sucks, has forever, get rid of him. He peaked at 9-7.

You've got to be kidding me. Kidding, right? No?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_VVVTmiWFo&feature=related

Trap_Star
11-21-2010, 04:14 PM
From what I have seen and heard of him, Kubiak is a great person, a great human being and class act. However, as a head coach in the NFL, he is just NOT getting it done. No playoffs and he needs to go.

sounds like the David Carr of HCs.

kiwitexansfan
11-21-2010, 04:15 PM
Kubiak is a good coach. He has improved this team dramatically.

My biggest question is his choice of coaches on the defensive side of the ball. Both from a scheme perspective and a ability to develop talent perspective.

I would also look at the scouting program to see why we can't seem to bring in any effective DBs.

The fact he still has the team on his side speaks volumes about his leadership ability.

I also have backed off my criticism of his playcalling and scheme as many of our faults of last year have actually improved.

I can live with keeping him if we have a new DC again.

gary
11-21-2010, 04:16 PM
Are they playing the Titans next week?

Showtime100
11-21-2010, 04:18 PM
Kubiak is a good coach. He has improved this team dramatically.

My biggest question is his choice of coaches on the defensive side of the ball. Both from a scheme perspective and a ability to develop talent perspective.

I would also look at the scouting program to see why we can't seem to bring in any effective DBs.

The fact he still has the team on his side speaks volumes about his leadership ability.

I also have backed off my criticism of his playcalling and scheme as many of our faults of last year have actually improved.

I can live with keeping him if we have a new DC again.

So you love it that he completely disregarded the possibity of getting a FG before the half? Cut it out. He pulls this **** game-in and game-out, year-in and year-out.

Kubiak is just the Head Loser in this case.

HJam72
11-21-2010, 04:19 PM
I didn't even watch this game (yet), but I'll tell you what I see and why Kubiak should be fired:

This high-profile offense only scored 7 points in the first half again and, while that's a slight improvement, it's still unexceptable from an offensive guru/HC. I bet they got their butts kicked in TOP in the first half again too....didn't they? I bet the D was exhausted and falling apart by half-time again....weren't they? I'll bet we would have won this game AGAIN if there'd just been another 5:00 on the clock....wouldn't we?

Kubiak can't even motivate the part of the team he built really well before a game. The D is bad, but he can't even motivate his offense not to make the D worse.

Ryan
11-21-2010, 04:20 PM
No, no, no. He is personally held responsible for hiring these clowns to run the defense, and by keeping him, you are not holding ANYONE on the franchise accountable for anything. Kubiak went the easy route and hired one of his buddies instead of hiring a proven NFL DC, can his a$$

Ryan
11-21-2010, 04:21 PM
I didn't even watch this game (yet), but I'll tell you what I see and why Kubiak should be fired:

This high-profile offense only scored 7 points in the first half again and, while that's a slight improvement, it's still unexceptable from an offensive guru/HC. I bet they got their butts kicked in TOP in the first half again too....didn't they? I bet the D was exhausted and falling apart by half-time again....weren't they? I'll bet we would have won this game AGAIN if there'd just been another 5:00 on the clock....wouldn't we?

Kubiak can't even motivate the part of the team he built really well before a game. The D is bad, but he can't even motivate his offense not to make the D worse.



They outgained the Jets and had the ball for about a minute more in the first half, but that's not even the point.

brakos82
11-21-2010, 04:22 PM
Sorry, the OP made me think I stumbled in the Drunk Thread.

Continue on.

SteveSlaton20
11-21-2010, 04:36 PM
I think he is maturing as a coach. I like the fact he ran the ball 3 times with foster and did'nt try some bs play to let the clock stop. Make the other team go 80 yards in 50 sec with no time outs. I can't see how any person with any real football knowledge disagrees with that. I think his team was prepared to play even after the horrible loss last week. The team does'nt quit. I think he is turning into a good head coach that did'nt know much about the defensive side of the ball and he listened to the wrong people. With any type of defense we are 8 and 2 this year.

there are two conditions. first the team must keep playing at a high level for the rest of this year. Next we have to replace Bus. Kubiak should hand the defense over to the new guy and stay out of the way, draft picks included and he also should not have a vote in who the new guy is. That should be left to Mcnair and Smith.

I can't argue if he is fired, i'm just saying what I would do.

^ aggie.

Mr teX
11-21-2010, 04:40 PM
I think he is maturing as a coach. I like the fact he ran the ball 3 times with foster and did'nt try some bs play to let the clock stop. Make the other team go 80 yards in 50 sec with no time outs. I can't see how any person with any real football knowledge disagrees with that. I think his team was prepared to play even after the horrible loss last week. The team does'nt quit. I think he is turning into a good head coach that did'nt know much about the defensive side of the ball and he listened to the wrong people. With any type of defense we are 8 and 2 this year.

there are two conditions. first the team must keep playing at a high level for the rest of this year. Next we have to replace Bus. Kubiak should hand the defense over to the new guy and stay out of the way, draft picks included and he also should not have a vote in who the new guy is. That should be left to Mcnair and Smith.

I can't argue if he is fired, i'm just saying what I would do.

L.O.L. 5 years is more than enough time for him to have gotten it right & unfortunately, he hasn't. I won't flip out & boycott the team either way..but i will if someone doesn't get better defensive personnel in here...

Thorn
11-21-2010, 04:44 PM
Kubiak is the head coach. The Texans are losers.

That's it. That's all I need to know. Kubiak must go.

utahmark
11-21-2010, 04:55 PM
If a head coach can't be trusted to hire a DC, he can't be trusted as a HC.

lol!!! you guys crack me up!!! that was actually the best post against what i said. I do believe if he is let go we just groomed him for some other team and we will watch him become a really good head coach for someone else. Every problem I've had with him he seems to be correcting except of course the dc. He seems to learn from his mistakes.

He is'nt of course the greatest coach in the world and we do have about a 50/50 chance of getting someone better. So we could roll the dice to make everyone happy. some of these names I keep hearing might not be as good as you guys think or as good as they once were. but Kubiak has done enough to get fired and I cant argue if he is.

Rey
11-21-2010, 04:56 PM
I don't have a problem keeping Kubiak depending on how the team plays out the rest of the season.

The D-coordinator has to go though.

The1ApplePie
11-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Can we just fire whomever drafted Amobi Okoye over Revis?

awtysst
11-21-2010, 04:59 PM
Kubiak is that you???

Fixed it for you!

hradhak
11-21-2010, 05:00 PM
Again, I don't think you can fault McNair for firing Kubiak. It's probably the right move. I would start looking now to see who is available and who you can get. I would think that hiring anyone who doesn't have head coaching experience would mean we're going to have growing pains all over again.

If there's a lockout what happens to the draft ? Can we still draft players and just not sign them, or is it postponed till next season?

kiwitexansfan
11-21-2010, 05:01 PM
This team is 6th in PPG scored. Dead last in PPG against.

Half of this team is a quality football team, I think the haterade is clouding some people vision.

We need to fix the defence. If that means HC, DC, new players or all of the above get that done, then we can talk about being a contender in our division.

kiwitexansfan
11-21-2010, 05:02 PM
Again, I don't think you can fault McNair for firing Kubiak. It's probably the right move. I would start looking now to see who is available and who you can get. I would think that hiring anyone who doesn't have head coaching experience would mean we're going to have growing pains all over again.

If there's a lockout what happens to the draft ? Can we still draft players and just not sign them, or is it postponed till next season?

Even with a proven HC, you are still starting from scratch because of new systems, new terminology, bringing players that 'fit' the system etc.

Hello rebuilding for the 3rd time.

hradhak
11-21-2010, 05:09 PM
Even with a proven HC, you are still starting from scratch because of new systems, new terminology, bringing players that 'fit' the system etc.

Hello rebuilding for the 3rd time.

I mispoke. I meant to say that you're going to have the head coach making mistakes with a rookie head coach that an experienced coach wouldn't make. There's definitely going to be some growing pains with a new coach for the players.

I would much rather see us bring in an experienced head coach with some wins under his belt. I just don't see any of the former coaches who are in the booth now coming back to coaching.

TexansSeminole
11-21-2010, 05:12 PM
He neg you? If so let me know, I'll replace it.

Some folks watch football but don't actually see the game.

Dude, I don't care about rep. Don't worry about it.

People being as blind as they are piss me off almost as much as the actual game. Almost.

Norg
11-21-2010, 05:13 PM
at the end of the season Mcnair will go over his company from top to bottom and see what needs to be done

Nothing has changed Kubes better start winning like next week if he want to keep his job

wagonhed
11-21-2010, 05:17 PM
we do have about a 50/50 chance of getting someone better. So we could roll the dice to make everyone happy.
Maybe, but we'd also have a 100% chance of not getting someone who has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he cannot win in this city.

cdollaz
11-21-2010, 05:18 PM
Even with a proven HC, you are still starting from scratch because of new systems, new terminology, bringing players that 'fit' the system etc.

Hello rebuilding for the 3rd time.


Do we have to go thru this again???

Look at the recent history and educate yourself as to the numerous crappy teams who have made HUGE steps forward in the NEXT year with a new head coach.

cdollaz
11-21-2010, 05:20 PM
This team is 6th in PPG scored. Dead last in PPG against.

Half of this team is a quality football team, I think the haterade is clouding some people vision.



Quality offenses don't have to play catchup every single week, after scoring minimal points in the first half.

Quality offenses control the ball for the WHOLE game. This is one of those cases where lofty stats are misleading and provide no insight as to the true effectiveness of this offense.

steelbtexan
11-21-2010, 05:21 PM
I think he is maturing as a coach. I like the fact he ran the ball 3 times with foster and did'nt try some bs play to let the clock stop. Make the other team go 80 yards in 50 sec with no time outs. I can't see how any person with any real football knowledge disagrees with that. I think his team was prepared to play even after the horrible loss last week. The team does'nt quit. I think he is turning into a good head coach that did'nt know much about the defensive side of the ball and he listened to the wrong people. With any type of defense we are 8 and 2 this year.

there are two conditions. first the team must keep playing at a high level for the rest of this year. Next we have to replace Bus. Kubiak should hand the defense over to the new guy and stay out of the way, draft picks included and he also should not have a vote in who the new guy is. That should be left to Mcnair and Smith.

I can't argue if he is fired, i'm just saying what I would do.

Your J/K right

LOL

ATXtexanfan
11-21-2010, 05:23 PM
Quality offenses don't have to play catchup every single week, after scoring minimal points in the first half.

Quality offenses control the ball for the WHOLE game. This is one of those cases where lofty stats are misleading and provide no insight as to the true effectiveness of this offense.

wow, pretty much sums up the whole season

kiwitexansfan
11-21-2010, 05:29 PM
Quality offenses don't have to play catchup every single week, after scoring minimal points in the first half.

Quality offenses control the ball for the WHOLE game. This is one of those cases where lofty stats are misleading and provide no insight as to the true effectiveness of this offense.

Stats are misleading, just imagine if we had even a high school quality defense to get the ball back for the offense some other way than letting the other team score.

Mr teX
11-21-2010, 05:30 PM
I mispoke. I meant to say that you're going to have the head coach making mistakes with a rookie head coach that an experienced coach wouldn't make. There's definitely going to be some growing pains with a new coach for the players.

I would much rather see us bring in an experienced head coach with some wins under his belt. I just don't see any of the former coaches who are in the booth now coming back to coaching.

Like Dom Capers? I mean people are clamoring for an experienced this or that, Its gonna be a crap shoot either way.

JB
11-21-2010, 05:48 PM
Quality offenses don't have to play catchup every single week, after scoring minimal points in the first half.

Quality offenses control the ball for the WHOLE game. This is one of those cases where lofty stats are misleading and provide no insight as to the true effectiveness of this offense.

Watching the NE/ Indy game?


Most people would say that Indy has a quality offense.

hradhak
11-21-2010, 05:52 PM
Watching the NE/ Indy game?


Most people would say that Indy has a quality offense.

Just what I was going to say. And if the Colts win, it wouldn't be the first time that Manning came back after 3 quarters of average play to put up 21 points in the last quarter to come from behind and win.

cdollaz
11-21-2010, 06:03 PM
Just what I was going to say. And if the Colts win, it wouldn't be the first time that Manning came back after 3 quarters of average play to put up 21 points in the last quarter to come from behind and win.

So you are comparing us to a team who has owned this division since the Texans' inception. You want to point at one game, or even one season, WRT the Colts and make a comparison based on that? Good one.

Ole Miss Texan
11-21-2010, 06:04 PM
I'm not going to argue with those that want Kubiak fired (reality would be that the entire top coaching staff would be canned once a new HC comes in). There are plenty of reasons for us to be feeling like we need a widespread change, and many of them completely valid.

I just don't see Kubiak as being at fault during this game. The two biggest things that frustrated me today were (1) Schaub's poor time management at the end of the first half and (2) our terrible secondary; particularly extremely poor safety play... yet again.

Many will blame Kubiak for his time management/play calling, but I think a lot of what happens in the final 2 minutes... and final 30 seconds is all on Schaub. We continually waste way too much time.

The biggest thing is our Secondary. The Loss today is FULLY on them. Not Kubiak. Our offense engineered a drive to get us into the lead and then another to extend the lead and force the Jets to score a TD instead of a FG. Our offense played a very aggressive, physical, and good Jets defense and won those matchups. Our defense failed this team yet again.

Troy Nolan and Eugene Wilson were both constantly out of position and taking terrible angles on the ball. If we had even remotely better play from them we would have won. This team would easily be 6-4 right now (because of wins the last two weeks) with minutely better secondary play. That would have us in a 1st place tie in our division.

So many want Kubiak canned and that's fine. I don't call you stupid or dumb... I think you have reason to be upset. I think this is definitely a playoff team and can reach the super bowl if only our defense gets better. I'd like a really good proven DC that can teach these guys up and fire them up. We're now giving up 30 ppg and last in the NFL. I want Kubiak to stay in place, call the offense, keep doing what he's doing... but for us to (1) bring in a new DC that calls the defense and is in charge of that on game day too and (2) bring in some playmakers on that side of the ball via free agency and the draft.

That's what I want. take it or leave it. Tell me I'm a damn fool, I don't really care what you think of me. This defense is killing us. All we need to do is fix the back end of it and we're a really really good team.

utahmark
11-21-2010, 06:07 PM
Maybe, but we'd also have a 100% chance of not getting someone who has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he cannot win in this city.

thats why I would'nt argue if he was fired. but those odds are a little over the top. If 3 plays go our way in the last 3 games we are probably 7 and 3 instead of 4 and 6. you can argue that winning coaches find a way to change those plays but i can argue back that the coaches who's teams make those plays or called winning coaches after the fact. there is a lot more luck involved in winning than anyone cares to admit.

cdollaz
11-21-2010, 06:08 PM
Who do you think chose to keep the players on defense that are on this team?

cdollaz
11-21-2010, 06:10 PM
thats why I would'nt argue if he was fired. but those odds are a little over the top. If 3 plays go our way in the last 3 games we are probably 7 and 3 instead of 4 and 6. you can argue that winning coaches find a way to change those plays but i can argue back that the coaches who's teams make those plays or called winning coaches after the fact. there is a lot more luck involved in winning than anyone cares to admit.

What about the last 3 seasons, when we have also lost close games and/or blown games at the end? Is that just bad luck also?

hradhak
11-21-2010, 06:10 PM
I'm not going to argue with those that want Kubiak fired (reality would be that the entire top coaching staff would be canned once a new HC comes in). There are plenty of reasons for us to be feeling like we need a widespread change, and many of them completely valid.

I just don't see Kubiak as being at fault during this game. The two biggest things that frustrated me today were (1) Schaub's poor time management at the end of the first half and (2) our terrible secondary; particularly extremely poor safety play... yet again.

Many will blame Kubiak for his time management/play calling, but I think a lot of what happens in the final 2 minutes... and final 30 seconds is all on Schaub. We continually waste way too much time.

The biggest thing is our Secondary. The Loss today is FULLY on them. Not Kubiak. Our offense engineered a drive to get us into the lead and then another to extend the lead and force the Jets to score a TD instead of a FG. Our offense played a very aggressive, physical, and good Jets defense and won those matchups. Our defense failed this team yet again.

Troy Nolan and Eugene Wilson were both constantly out of position and taking terrible angles on the ball. If we had even remotely better play from them we would have won. This team would easily be 6-4 right now (because of wins the last two weeks) with minutely better secondary play. That would have us in a 1st place tie in our division.

So many want Kubiak canned and that's fine. I don't call you stupid or dumb... I think you have reason to be upset. I think this is definitely a playoff team and can reach the super bowl if only our defense gets better. I'd like a really good proven DC that can teach these guys up and fire them up. We're now giving up 30 ppg and last in the NFL. I want Kubiak to stay in place, call the offense, keep doing what he's doing... but for us to (1) bring in a new DC that calls the defense and is in charge of that on game day too and (2) bring in some playmakers on that side of the ball via free agency and the draft.

That's what I want. take it or leave. Tell me I'm a damn fool, I don't really care what you think of me. This defense is killing us. All we need to do is fix the back end of it and we're a really really good team.

I agree with you and don't think you're a fool. Others may and they are entitled to their opinion. I have called Kubiak out on numerous stupid decisions these past few years but I think those have been fixed for the most part. There's a reason our offense is ranked so high in offensive efficiency on footballoutsiders.com. It's mostly his doing. My fear is that bringing in a defensive head coach can destroy all that work. That being said, the coaching staff in its current state has to change. Whether Kubiak stays and we bring in a new DC or we fire Kubiak and clean house I'm ok with it as long as we can maintain our offensive prowess.

utahmark
11-21-2010, 06:17 PM
What about the last 3 seasons, when we have also lost close games and/or blown games at the end? Is that just bad luck also?

I don't know. I'm just pretty sure you guys don't either. Maybe he is doing something wrong. I'm not sure how the last 3 games are his fault. It does keep happening though. So maybe get rid of him.

I don't think it's obvious though and I like the in game coaching for the last few games. I like the choices that have been made. He's corrected a lot of his flaws. He is even better on his challanges this year. He is to slow to make changes but once he makes a change he seems to get it right.

something has to be done. I just don't know if firing everyone is the best choice.

wagonhed
11-21-2010, 06:19 PM
here is my obligatory reply to the "we were 1 play away from winning 3 other games" that people keep using:

we were also 1 play away from losing 2 more (Skins, Chiefs)

Dishman
11-21-2010, 06:21 PM
I thought the team played good today. One bad break at the end. I thought it would be a blowout. Playing the jets that close on their home field is playing at a high level. Now you can argue we need a better coach to teach this team how to finish or win. but to say they didnt play good is stupid.

The players may play at a high level or give a good effort, but they are coached for **** and if you can't see that then I wish you all the best.

Brisco_County
11-21-2010, 06:24 PM
Anyone who thinks Kubiak should remain HC is delusional.

TexansFight
11-21-2010, 06:30 PM
Anyone who wants to keep Kubiak at this point is a sadomasochist IMO. Throw him out like yesterday's garbage. Frank Bush should kill himself if he had any honor.

cdollaz
11-21-2010, 06:30 PM
I don't know. I'm just pretty sure you guys don't either. Maybe he is doing something wrong. I'm not sure how the last 3 games are his fault. It does keep happening though. So maybe get rid of him.

I don't think it's obvious though and I like the in game coaching for the last few games. I like the choices that have been made. He's corrected a lot of his flaws. He is even better on his challanges this year. He is to slow to make changes but once he makes a change he seems to get it right.



When is he going to make an in-game choice, in the first half, that will lead to more than 7 points in that half.

Bottom line: he has had 5 years, and we have plateaud. That is 100% on the head coach, period. Other than better offensive stats, we have accomplished nothing in the past 5 years, as compared to the previous 4 years.

wagonhed
11-21-2010, 06:32 PM
Anyone who wants to keep Kubiak at this point is a sadomasochist IMO. Throw him out like yesterday's garbage. Frank Bush should kill himself if he had any honor.

i laughed irl. i don't want Bush dead but still this was funny.

Mr teX
11-21-2010, 06:36 PM
I'm not going to argue with those that want Kubiak fired (reality would be that the entire top coaching staff would be canned once a new HC comes in). There are plenty of reasons for us to be feeling like we need a widespread change, and many of them completely valid.

I just don't see Kubiak as being at fault during this game. The two biggest things that frustrated me today were (1) Schaub's poor time management at the end of the first half and (2) our terrible secondary; particularly extremely poor safety play... yet again.

Many will blame Kubiak for his time management/play calling, but I think a lot of what happens in the final 2 minutes... and final 30 seconds is all on Schaub. We continually waste way too much time.

The biggest thing is our Secondary. The Loss today is FULLY on them. Not Kubiak. Our offense engineered a drive to get us into the lead and then another to extend the lead and force the Jets to score a TD instead of a FG. Our offense played a very aggressive, physical, and good Jets defense and won those matchups. Our defense failed this team yet again.

Troy Nolan and Eugene Wilson were both constantly out of position and taking terrible angles on the ball. If we had even remotely better play from them we would have won. This team would easily be 6-4 right now (because of wins the last two weeks) with minutely better secondary play. That would have us in a 1st place tie in our division.

So many want Kubiak canned and that's fine. I don't call you stupid or dumb... I think you have reason to be upset. I think this is definitely a playoff team and can reach the super bowl if only our defense gets better. I'd like a really good proven DC that can teach these guys up and fire them up. We're now giving up 30 ppg and last in the NFL. I want Kubiak to stay in place, call the offense, keep doing what he's doing... but for us to (1) bring in a new DC that calls the defense and is in charge of that on game day too and (2) bring in some playmakers on that side of the ball via free agency and the draft.

That's what I want. take it or leave it. Tell me I'm a damn fool, I don't really care what you think of me. This defense is killing us. All we need to do is fix the back end of it and we're a really really good team.


Fair, balanced & cohesive post OMT. I don't think you're a fool.


For what its worth, Harrison & Dungy just talked about our latest follie & harrison & Dungy said that the cb's should've been playing inside technique on the braylon edwards catch & of course wilson wasn't in position. i think its pretty clear Bush is in over his head & needs to go.

MojoX
11-21-2010, 06:44 PM
I'm not going to argue with those that want Kubiak fired (reality would be that the entire top coaching staff would be canned once a new HC comes in). There are plenty of reasons for us to be feeling like we need a widespread change, and many of them completely valid.

I just don't see Kubiak as being at fault during this game. The two biggest things that frustrated me today were (1) Schaub's poor time management at the end of the first half and (2) our terrible secondary; particularly extremely poor safety play... yet again.

Many will blame Kubiak for his time management/play calling, but I think a lot of what happens in the final 2 minutes... and final 30 seconds is all on Schaub. We continually waste way too much time.

The biggest thing is our Secondary. The Loss today is FULLY on them. Not Kubiak. Our offense engineered a drive to get us into the lead and then another to extend the lead and force the Jets to score a TD instead of a FG. Our offense played a very aggressive, physical, and good Jets defense and won those matchups. Our defense failed this team yet again.

Troy Nolan and Eugene Wilson were both constantly out of position and taking terrible angles on the ball. If we had even remotely better play from them we would have won. This team would easily be 6-4 right now (because of wins the last two weeks) with minutely better secondary play. That would have us in a 1st place tie in our division.

So many want Kubiak canned and that's fine. I don't call you stupid or dumb... I think you have reason to be upset. I think this is definitely a playoff team and can reach the super bowl if only our defense gets better. I'd like a really good proven DC that can teach these guys up and fire them up. We're now giving up 30 ppg and last in the NFL. I want Kubiak to stay in place, call the offense, keep doing what he's doing... but for us to (1) bring in a new DC that calls the defense and is in charge of that on game day too and (2) bring in some playmakers on that side of the ball via free agency and the draft.

That's what I want. take it or leave it. Tell me I'm a damn fool, I don't really care what you think of me. This defense is killing us. All we need to do is fix the back end of it and we're a really really good team.

I am with you on this. I think Kubiak has been a fine coach and if fired will go on to success like some for Texans players. I hate to see this team, the fans, Kubiak and McNair let down by bone headed coaching by an incompetent defensive staff. Really, this team is one good DC away....

MFG16
11-21-2010, 06:45 PM
I think its a little funny that once expectations are high and the coaches start making mistakes people want them fired, but when they make the same mistakes when expectation are low the teams "growing" or "getting better". I mean really how many times have the texans under kubiak lost a game in the final seconds? (whether they blew a lead or came back to lose) How many times has Peyton come back from 17 to win? How many times have the Titans come back with a last second field goal or a VY splitting of the texans D like the red sea?? The Jags?? its ridiculous, and it all falls on the HC and the mentality he instills in his players. You really want to keep that? really? I say fire frank bush and david gibbs NOW, and make rhodes the D cord for the rest of the season. Fire kubiak at the end of the season, whether theres football next year or not, and hire someone whos not an offensive Cord at best.

Pantherstang84
11-21-2010, 06:48 PM
I am with you on this. I think Kubiak has been a fine coach and if fired will go on to success like some for Texans players. I hate to see this team, the fans, Kubiak and McNair let down by bone headed coaching by an incompetent defensive staff. Really, this team is one good DC away....

And has been one good DC away for 5 years now. Kubiak needs more OC time and hopefully he can learn to leave his personal friendships at the door when he comes to work. His inability to hold his staff accountable is a major flaw. Really wanted him to work out here. Really did. He just isn't the right coach for this team. It's not personal with me. I don't hate the guy or wish him ill. It's just not working out and it is time to move on.

Dishman
11-21-2010, 06:48 PM
I am with you on this. I think Kubiak has been a fine coach and if fired will go on to success like some for Texans players. I hate to see this team, the fans, Kubiak and McNair let down by bone headed coaching by an incompetent defensive staff. Really, this team is one good DC away....


As Head Coach Gary Kubiak had the opportunity of fixing this defense several years ago. His solution was to promote Frank Bush. He also has allowed Alex Gibbs to remain the DB coach.

Enough is enough. That bone-headed coaching you refer to is a product of Texan's HC Gary Kubiak.

Pantherstang84
11-21-2010, 06:49 PM
I think its a little funny that once expectations are high and the coaches start making mistakes people want them fired, but when they make the same mistakes when expectation are low the teams "growing" or "getting better". I mean really how many times have the texans under kubiak lost a game in the final seconds? (whether they blew a lead or came back to lose) How many times has Peyton come back from 17 to win? How many times have the Titans come back with a last second field goal or a VY splitting of the texans D like the red sea?? The Jags?? its ridiculous, and it all falls on the HC and the mentality he instills in his players. You really want to keep that? really? I say fire frank bush and david gibbs NOW, and make rhodes the D cord for the rest of the season. Fire kubiak at the end of the season, whether theres football next year or not, and hire someone whos not an offensive Cord at best.

:goodpost:

cdollaz
11-21-2010, 06:54 PM
And has been one good DC away for 5 years now. Kubiak needs more OC time and hopefully he can learn to leave his personal friendships at the door when he comes to work. His inability to hold his staff accountable is a major flaw. Really wanted him to work out here. Really did. He just isn't the right coach for this team. It's not personal with me. I don't hate the guy or wish him ill. It's just not working out and it is time to move on.

Yep. I really wish he was the guy because he seems like a decent person and the type that you want to have success, as opposed to an asshat like the fatass on the other sideline today.

However, being a nice guy isn't enough, and it's time to move on.

MojoX
11-21-2010, 06:54 PM
As Head Coach Gary Kubiak had the opportunity of fixing this defense several years ago. His solution was to promote Frank Bush. He also has allowed Alex Gibbs to remain the DB coach.

Enough is enough. That bone-headed coaching you refer to is a product of Texan's HC Gary Kubiak.

Never said to give Kubiak a pass. He is the Head Coach not the Offensive Coordinator in chief. If he can't or wont't manage a staff, including dealign with hiring/firing decisions, a major part of the job, then he doesn't deserve to continue in the position. Period.

He won't be the first or the last, coach to go down for putting together a poor staff.

gary
11-21-2010, 06:55 PM
They were very lucky against the Redskins and Raiders they should be 2-8 right now. Say what you will but the record is what it is which all I care about.

utahmark
11-21-2010, 08:06 PM
I'm not going to argue with those that want Kubiak fired (reality would be that the entire top coaching staff would be canned once a new HC comes in). There are plenty of reasons for us to be feeling like we need a widespread change, and many of them completely valid.

I just don't see Kubiak as being at fault during this game. The two biggest things that frustrated me today were (1) Schaub's poor time management at the end of the first half and (2) our terrible secondary; particularly extremely poor safety play... yet again.

Many will blame Kubiak for his time management/play calling, but I think a lot of what happens in the final 2 minutes... and final 30 seconds is all on Schaub. We continually waste way too much time.

The biggest thing is our Secondary. The Loss today is FULLY on them. Not Kubiak. Our offense engineered a drive to get us into the lead and then another to extend the lead and force the Jets to score a TD instead of a FG. Our offense played a very aggressive, physical, and good Jets defense and won those matchups. Our defense failed this team yet again.

Troy Nolan and Eugene Wilson were both constantly out of position and taking terrible angles on the ball. If we had even remotely better play from them we would have won. This team would easily be 6-4 right now (because of wins the last two weeks) with minutely better secondary play. That would have us in a 1st place tie in our division.

So many want Kubiak canned and that's fine. I don't call you stupid or dumb... I think you have reason to be upset. I think this is definitely a playoff team and can reach the super bowl if only our defense gets better. I'd like a really good proven DC that can teach these guys up and fire them up. We're now giving up 30 ppg and last in the NFL. I want Kubiak to stay in place, call the offense, keep doing what he's doing... but for us to (1) bring in a new DC that calls the defense and is in charge of that on game day too and (2) bring in some playmakers on that side of the ball via free agency and the draft.

That's what I want. take it or leave it. Tell me I'm a damn fool, I don't really care what you think of me. This defense is killing us. All we need to do is fix the back end of it and we're a really really good team.

exactly! you say it better than I do. with even an ave defense we are a playoff team this year. I think it would be safer to just get someone in to fix the defense then get rid of the whole staff. I don't think Kubiak should have a say in who that is because he has already missed twice.

hradhak
11-21-2010, 08:34 PM
Here's my take on it. Kubiak has made mistakes in the past by hiring friends over the best available person. If he's willing to admit that it's a mistake and stop hiring his friends and instead get a solid DC pick, I would agree give Kubiak another shot.

kiwitexansfan
11-21-2010, 08:36 PM
Here's my take on it. Kubiak has made mistakes in the past by hiring friends over the best available person. If he's willing to admit that it's a mistake and stop hiring his friends and instead get a solid DC pick, I would agree give Kubiak another shot.

This.

Hence my thread on who is out there for the DC spot.

Texas T
11-21-2010, 08:37 PM
Fair, balanced & cohesive post OMT. I don't think you're a fool.


For what its worth, Harrison & Dungy just talked about our latest follie & harrison & Dungy said that the cb's should've been playing inside technique on the braylon edwards catch & of course wilson wasn't in position. i think its pretty clear Bush is in over his head & needs to go.

They also said that someone from the Texans defensive coaching staff needed to be fired...I guess we'll see if that happens.

HTown2ATX
11-21-2010, 08:38 PM
:backsout:

is this a serious thread?

i'm missing the sarcasm somewhere I know it!

3rd and Inches
11-21-2010, 09:00 PM
:backsout:

is this a serious thread?

i'm missing the sarcasm somewhere I know it!

I honestly think it was started to raise my blood pressure and decide that the universe is coming to an end.. I could be overly paranoid though.

utahmark
11-21-2010, 09:10 PM
I honestly think it was started to raise my blood pressure and decide that the universe is coming to an end.. I could be overly paranoid though.

I probably should of worded it different. Just to help with your blood pressure. How about "I would'nt be opposed to keeping Kubiak if we get a new dc". that would probably raise most of your blood pressure's as well. Maybe not as much. I think it's at least worth an argument.

TexansSeminole
11-21-2010, 09:12 PM
Many will blame Kubiak for his time management/play calling, but I think a lot of what happens in the final 2 minutes... and final 30 seconds is all on Schaub. We continually waste way too much time.

While I agree with you about it being on Schaub, it's also on Kubiak. He is the QB coach. He tutors Schaub on how to act in these situations. He has watched Schaub manage the clock poorly in these situations time and time again. Why can't he teach the guy to get better at it? Seems to me that Schaub is doing what Kubiak is teaching him or Schaub is uncoachable. Which do you believe it is?

3rd and Inches
11-21-2010, 09:14 PM
I probably should of worded it different. Just to help with your blood pressure. How about "I would'nt be opposed to keeping Kubiak if we get a new dc". that would probably raise most of your blood pressure's as well. Maybe not as much. I think it's at least worth an argument.

Well.. to be honest.. after the Rick Smith fiasco.. and now Frank Bush.. my faith in Kubiak has diminished to a negative balance.

Norg
11-21-2010, 09:16 PM
WTF happend

Wasent our D last year like top 10 in D

and now we are the worst in History !!!!!!!!!!!!!

what happend ??????????? Did losing DUnta and Reeves really effect us this much

Maybe Richard Smith wasent tha Problem

Norg
11-21-2010, 09:17 PM
Well.. to be honest.. after the Rick Smith fiasco.. and now Frank Bush.. my faith in Kubiak has diminished to a negative balance.



Kubes hires his buddies has his coaches

Bob needs to FIre Kubes buddies and Get a Proven DC

Mr teX
11-21-2010, 09:18 PM
WTF happend

Wasent our D last year like top 10 in D

and now we are the worst in History !!!!!!!!!!!!!

what happend ??????????? Did losing DUnta and Reeves really effect us this much

Maybe Richard Smith wasent tha Problem

coaches coach & players play....

utahmark
11-21-2010, 09:26 PM
WTF happend

Wasent our D last year like top 10 in D

and now we are the worst in History !!!!!!!!!!!!!

what happend ??????????? Did losing DUnta and Reeves really effect us this much

Maybe Richard Smith wasent tha Problem

I think not keeping reeves was the biggest mistake. he was our best corner last year. he might have been hurt, i heard something about that?

whoever is f'ing with our corner backs might be the biggest problem. but like a lot of you are saying if kubes want's to be more than oc he should of figured that out and fixed it. Still think it would be easier to fix it for him and let him stay though.

3rd and Inches
11-21-2010, 09:30 PM
Kubes hires his buddies has his coaches

Bob needs to FIre Kubes buddies and Get a Proven DC

Amen to that Norg.

overtrained
11-21-2010, 09:39 PM
Sorry if already stated but....since Kubiak was hired EVERY other team in the NFL has made the playoffs or fired their coach. Proof is in the pudding and Kubiak has failed.

Lucky
11-21-2010, 09:40 PM
I think he is maturing as a coach.
It's Kubiak's 5th season. 5th. He is what he is and always has been.

I think he is turning into a good head coach that did'nt know much about the defensive side of the ball...
There is no such thing as a "good" head coach that is ignorant of one phase of the game. That Kubiak knows little about defensive football in an indictment of his incompetence as head coach.

there are two conditions. first the team must keep playing at a high level for the rest of this year.
Keep?
Next we have to replace Bus. Kubiak should hand the defense over to the new guy and stay out of the way, draft picks included and he also should not have a vote in who the new guy is. That should be left to Mcnair and Smith.
Where to start? First, what does McNair or Rick Smith know about hiring a defensive coordinator? They have zero qualifications to make that decision. Kubiak has failed twice at the task. But, at least he has experience.

Next, I can't understand the logic behind keeping Kubiak, but emasculating him as the head coach. "No Gary, your opinion doesn't count when the opposition has the ball. Just go back to looking at your Denny's menu." This is the problem the Texans have, now. Not the solution to the problem. I'm dumbfounded by this logic (and to be fair, there are plenty of others who share this with you).

I won't insult you, even if I do not agree with your opinion. No one should. I hope that is clear to everyone.

Htownsportsfan
11-21-2010, 09:42 PM
If Kubiak goes do you keep Smith? Most high profile coaches whoses names get dropped on the board are going to want control and if you go for another coordinator which isn't out of the question. Can Smith identify the talent to make this team a success. While we have had some good picks we have had some big misses in the draft and almost no FA help.

Heath Shuler
11-21-2010, 09:44 PM
Re: keep kubiak

While we are at it why not see if we can get Casserly back?

Norg
11-21-2010, 09:51 PM
If Kubiak goes do you keep Smith? Most high profile coaches whoses names get dropped on the board are going to want control and if you go for another coordinator which isn't out of the question. Can Smith identify the talent to make this team a success. While we have had some good picks we have had some big misses in the draft and almost no FA help.

Our GM deff needs to go our Draft picks have been pretty bad IMO lately

get a new GM that fits the New DC IMO

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-21-2010, 09:54 PM
There are others that hope the Texans keep Kubiak. We refer to them as Colts, Titans and Jags fans.

3rd and Inches
11-21-2010, 10:00 PM
^ :lol: Couldn't have said it better myself.

utahmark
11-21-2010, 10:19 PM
It's Kubiak's 5th season. 5th. He is what he is and always has been.


There is no such thing as a "good" head coach that is ignorant of one phase of the game. That Kubiak knows little about defensive football in an indictment of his incompetence as head coach.


Keep?

Where to start? First, what does McNair or Rick Smith know about hiring a defensive coordinator? They have zero qualifications to make that decision. Kubiak has failed twice at the task. But, at least he has experience.

Next, I can't understand the logic behind keeping Kubiak, but emasculating him as the head coach. "No Gary, your opinion doesn't count when the opposition has the ball. Just go back to looking at your Denny's menu." This is the problem the Texans have, now. Not the solution to the problem. I'm dumbfounded by this logic (and to be fair, there are plenty of others who share this with you).

I won't insult you, even if I do not agree with your opinion. No one should. I hope that is clear to everyone.

first of all. how do you freakin do that with the quote's?

first point: i don't agree. i think you can get better after being a coach for 4+ years and I think he is getting better.

second point: your right about that. I'm actually changing my mind(a little) because of hearing that part of the arguement. Still... it might not be conventional but I think giving a good dc control of that side of the ball and letting Kubes run the offense and be head coach on game day would have a better chance of working than starting over.

third point: High level might of been a little strong but I have already explaned how playing tough on the road against tough opponents is playing good football. I'm not one of those guys who thinks one coach is an ***** and the other is a genious because of one or two plays at the end of a game.

4th point: You don't trust anyone to hire a dc so who do you think is going to be hiring our next head coach? Mcnair has already proven beyond a doubt that he got it wrong once and most people on this board would say twice. So your going to put your trust in that now?

thanks for not insulting me.lol

utahmark
11-21-2010, 10:21 PM
Our GM deff needs to go our Draft picks have been pretty bad IMO lately

get a new GM that fits the New DC IMO

this team is in to many close games against good opponents to have bad coaching and no talent. It's one or the other. I hope someone figures out which and gets it right.

Lucky
11-21-2010, 10:31 PM
first of all. how do you freakin do that with the quote's?
Just copy the quote as many times as you want to respond and delete what's not material to your reply.
4th point: You don't trust anyone to hire a dc so who do you think is going to be hiring our next head coach? Mcnair has already proven beyond a doubt that he got it wrong once and most people on this board would say twice. So your going to put your trust in that now?
That's a good point. My answer is that McNair must make an obvious hire. Someone whose qualifications has a NFL head coach are beyond reproach. A proven winner. Preferably, a Super Bowl winner. A "no brainer", if you will.

thanks for not insulting me.lol
It's gotten that bad, has it? Nah, I spent some time on the houstontexans.com board this afternoon, and that was a zoo. I'll just stay here, thank you very much.

thegr8fan
11-21-2010, 10:32 PM
Kubiak is probably an above average Offensive Coordinator. IMO Dom Capers is an above average Defensive Coordinator. IMO Neither one of them made it as decent Head Coach. It's really just that simple.

And don't forget that this entire team is 'the house that Kubiak built'. Including our GM who was hired AFTER Kubiak got here and has Denver ties. This entire staff is Kubiak oriented and hand picked. Including Schaub.

Kubiak picked this entire coaching department and has repeatedly said 'it's on me'', so let him shoulder the repercussions of his poor decisions. The 53 man football team is hand picked by him. The 45 that dress out. The FA's hired since the season started. The draft choices. EVERYTHING is Kubiak's hand built machine.

It is unfortunately failing miserably. Time to scrap this Carr, AGAIN, and move ON/FORWARD.

Keep Kubiak?? Yeah, as a waterboy. Anything higher would be an insult to the fans of this team. Who, co-incidently, HAVE been around longer than Kubiak.

Dishman
11-21-2010, 10:39 PM
this team is in to many close games against good opponents to have bad coaching and no talent. It's one or the other. I hope someone figures out which and gets it right.

They have a good offense that keepsthem in games, but that's coupled with bad time management and bad player development/coaching on the defensive side of the ball. The talent level on the defense is hard to discern. The regression this year of the defense probably is both a lack of good coaching and finding the right mix of players. There have been numerous high defensive draft picks. Where are they now, save Williams and Cushing?

DexmanC
11-21-2010, 10:45 PM
Raheem Morris is doing a better job in 2 years, than what Kubiak has
done in five. In TODAY'S NFL, it doesn't take long to improve from
gutting the front office.

Texecutioner
11-21-2010, 10:59 PM
This is beyond amazing at this point that Kubiak still has his little followers that somehow believe in this clown.

All validity anyone had as far as football goes is right out the window for me if they're still trying to make arguments for Kubiak at this point. It just isn't a person with respectable analysis that's capable of any observations at this point if that's their theory.

This thread is unbelievable.

thunderkyss
11-22-2010, 02:40 AM
I actually agree with you on this. I think firing him is a defensible position, but this d coordinator is killing us. I also don't think you allow Kubiak to pick out the d coordinator. Get someone who is proven and clean house with the position coaches on defense. These guys need to start over from the ground up.

I thought Kubiak was a heck of a coach last year, when all the injuries hit us, & we still managed to go 9-7. He didn't make a big deal about the injuries, fans didn't give him any credit... he had to depend on players acquired for special roles playing major roles.

He brought Frank Bush in last year & his simplified scheme helped us turnaround what was perennially one of the worse defenses in the league.

This year, we never got started right. Cushing, Barwin, Wilson... all in the first 4 games. Then we got a rookie we're trying to acclimate to the NFL. Then we lose Ryans, now Diles....

This years schedule is tougher than last years. 9-7 would be better than 9-7 last year.

Which is why he should have found a way to go 10-6 last year. It sucks being Kubiak. 5 years is a long time, too long. IF we don't make the play-offs, I don't think he should be here.

thunderkyss
11-22-2010, 02:49 AM
at the end of the season Mcnair will go over his company from top to bottom and see what needs to be done

Nothing has changed Kubes better start winning like next week if he want to keep his job

Agree.

He needs to know 10-6 might not get him in. But he & his team better find some way to be 10-6 at the end of the year.

Tennessee, Philly, Baltimore, Denver, Tennessee, Jags... & we better not lose the tie breaker to the Jets again.

thunderkyss
11-22-2010, 02:52 AM
Quality offenses don't have to play catchup every single week, after scoring minimal points in the first half.

Quality offenses control the ball for the WHOLE game. This is one of those cases where lofty stats are misleading and provide no insight as to the true effectiveness of this offense.

This has been the problem all season.

thunderkyss
11-22-2010, 02:55 AM
Stats are misleading, just imagine if we had even a high school quality defense to get the ball back for the offense some other way than letting the other team score.

This game was virtually identical to the Giants game. Offense did nothing in the first half. Defense was out of their mind, 3rd Qtr against the Giants, 4th Qtr against the Jets. 2 turnovers, several punts, several opportunities for our offense to take control.......


never happened.

thunderkyss
11-22-2010, 04:23 AM
That's a good point. My answer is that McNair must make an obvious hire. Someone whose qualifications has a NFL head coach are beyond reproach. A proven winner. Preferably, a Super Bowl winner. A "no brainer", if you will.


I think McNair screwed up by hiring Kubiak's buddy, Rick Smith.

He needs to hire a VP of football operations. A Parcells, Holmgren, Reeves kind of guy.... Maybe a Jimmy Johnson, if JJ doesn't want to coach, maybe that would be the perfect gig for him.

MojoX
11-22-2010, 04:34 AM
Kubiak is a good guy and maybe, after time away from HC duties, he will digest this experience and emerge a better coach. But, as a guy invested time following underdog squads during the interregnum of no Houston NFL football, stuck in a broadcast zone featuring the 49ers and the Raiders, when I see stuff like the following coming from players, I know the coach is losing the team.

"I feel bad for the coaches," Mario Williams said.

Talk about a kiss of death.

The bad news is Texans players are still standing up for the coaches.

"Somebody is going to have to take flak for this," Antonio Smith said. "At the beginning of the season it's going to be the players - I've seen it happen before. Toward the end of the season, people are going to start saying it's the coaches. It's not. It's the unit.

"We got to figure it out. Right now I don't know what it is that we have to do, it seems like we have the toughest luck. But I know that if we lose faith, nothing is going to happen.

"I feel for each and every person involved with this organization from top to bottom. It just feels like we we're there. People are going to take criticism, and I don't know what it is that we have to find, but it's a small thing (keeping) us from being a playoff dominant team to us failing at the end of games like we're doing now."
.
.
.
There seemed to be a little more "talk" between defensive teammates, especially after blown assignments.

All said the politically correct thing afterward, but the tension is mounting. Smith was asked if he thought the team was starting to point fingers.

"It's hard to tell," Smith said. "Sometimes it feels like it. It feels like we need to play more together as a unit. If we keep having arguments among each other, that means that the devil is still in the midst. We have to have faith in whatever it is that we're doing. That never fails. Just keep faith and the Lord is going to see us through this. If you don't, if you doubt, you're going to keep coming up with the same ending. The same ending and not learning from it."

They need prayer, people.

"They day that we figure out that it is a team game, and stop pointing fingers, in any directions - as far as coaches, DBs, D-line, linebackers - is the day that we'll grow up and start winning," Smith said. "You'll never take this game to the Super Bowl thinking this is an 'I' sport. You'll never do it. I've been a part of it, and the moment we figured that out is the moment when we started winning."

http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2010/11/texans_still_believe_in_kubiak.html

The Solomon link has more, but I'll be surprised if Kubiak holds on to this job after this season.

Maddict5
11-22-2010, 07:16 AM
It's Kubiak's 5th season. 5th. He is what he is and always has been.


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0129/pg2_a_belichick_200.jpg

Maddict5
11-22-2010, 07:20 AM
There is no such thing as a "good" head coach that is ignorant of one phase of the game. That Kubiak knows little about defensive football in an indictment of his incompetence as head coach.


ridiculous

is rex ryan a bad HC so since he a D guy and schotty runs that offence?

how about SB winning HC sean payton who just like kubiak runs the O and lets gregg williams have the D?

so many other examples too

HoustonFrog
11-22-2010, 07:43 AM
Some of you do know that Kubiak is basically a GM too? He and Smith make decisions and from what I read Kubes like to impose his will. This guy made the decision to cut Dunta. He made the decision to draft a rookie that wasn't even the best cover corner out there and to insert him no matter what. He made the decision to build the team like this. The secondary is on him. He made the decison not to go after a top, aggressive D Coordinator. They coach these players up. 5 years, same time management mistakes, same way of losing. Same excuses.

HJam72
11-25-2010, 02:18 AM
Seems like every coach has a LOT of say in the drafting and every one of them has some part of the team that they don't care enough about, which becomes an Achilles heal.

My answer: replace the HC every year! We can just start using the colored soaps as soon as the first game is over, even if we win.

wagonhed
11-25-2010, 03:12 AM
Kubes' intense favoritism should be enough to make anyone start asking questions about his competence. Look at our record with Colorado State, the Broncos, and former Kubiak teammates. That says a lot of things about Kubiak. For example, it says that he doesn't know how to use scouts or evaluate things himself, he just goes with what he is familiar with. It also says he doesn't have an eye out for the big picture. And he doesn't have a whatever it takes to win mentality.

Grams
11-25-2010, 06:12 AM
I have lost any confidence in Kubiak that I had.

Not having the team prepared for the Colts with 2 weeks to get ready for a broke, beat up team did me in. Ant the mentality of it is just another game for the Cowboys . . . .

I am still a fan and will watch each game and yell and scream at them, I find it difficult to believe that they will win 1 more game, much less 6.

I don't display any color soap, but we definately need a better HC and coaching staff next year, preferably Cowher, along with Parcels. The Bill and Bill show - works for me.

:fans:

TexansSeminole
11-25-2010, 09:27 AM
ridiculous

is rex ryan a bad HC so since he a D guy and schotty runs that offence?

how about SB winning HC sean payton who just like kubiak runs the O and lets gregg williams have the D?

so many other examples too

Is Rex Ryan clueless about the offense? He has a quality offensive coordinator that has done a great job running that offense. He picked up Santonio Holmes, perhaps the most clutch receiver in the league, in the offseason. Shonn Green? LT? Mark Sanchez? Braylon Edwards? Your argument is terrible.

Just because Rex Ryan is a D guy, doesn't mean he is clueless about offensive football.

Gary Kubiak has proven that he is clueless about defensive football, and if he somehow puts it together for the defense it will be by sheer luck. That much is obvious.

Surreal McCoy
11-25-2010, 09:33 AM
Is Rex Ryan clueless about the offense? He has a quality offensive coordinator that has done a great job running that offense. He picked up Santonio Holmes, perhaps the most clutch receiver in the league, in the offseason. Shonn Green? LT? Mark Sanchez? Braylon Edwards? Your argument is terrible.



Of course you were at the meeting when Ryan proposed to bring all those players in and Schottenheimer said "whatever you want, boss". Right?

TexansSeminole
11-25-2010, 09:39 AM
Of course you were at the meeting when Ryan proposed to bring all those players in and Schottenheimer said "whatever you want, boss". Right?

It's likely a team decision, which reflects on the coaching staff as a whole. That's usually how real teams are run. Even if it was Schotty's decision alone, this is Rex Ryan's offensive coordinator. He recognized that he was a damn good offensive coordinator and kept him around, unlike Gary who brought in all his boys regardless of coaching ability.

Who have Gary Kubiak's defensive coordinator's brought in? What have Gary Kubiak's defensive coordinators done?

Further, where were these bold moves when Schotty was the offensive coordinator and Rex Ryan wasn't there? I think it's clear that Rex has alot to do with the personnel changes that have been made on the Jets.

Some of you just simply don't get it, honestly.

JB
11-25-2010, 09:59 AM
Some of you just simply don't get it, honestly.

So because someone does not neccessarily agree with you that means that they don't "get it" ?

TexansSeminole
11-25-2010, 10:07 AM
So because someone does not neccessarily agree with you that means that they don't "get it" ?

It's not about agreeing with me.

Saying this, "Of course you were at the meeting when Ryan proposed to bring all those players in and Schottenheimer said "whatever you want, boss". Right?" shows a lack of understanding of the NFL in my opinion. It also doesn't make sense when used against my argument. He isn't considering that regardless of who's decision it was, that is Rex Ryan's staff and their decisions as a whole, or by themselves, reflect onto him.

It's pretty obvious stuff IMO. It has less to do with agreeing with somebody, and more to do with simply understanding.

JB
11-25-2010, 10:10 AM
I thought you were refering to Kubiak in relation to Ryan.

TexansSeminole
11-25-2010, 10:18 AM
I thought you were refering to Kubiak in relation to Ryan.

I was originally.

This is the post I was originally referring to:


is rex ryan a bad HC so since he a D guy and schotty runs that offence?


I think I illustrated above why this thinking is flawed.

What Lucky is trying to say is that if Kubiak doesn't have enough knowledge about defensive football to atleast identify and hire a competent defensive coordinator, he is not a good HC. Atleast, I think that's what Lucky is trying to say. Sorry if I am wrong Lucky.

Maddict5's use of Sean Payton and Gregg Williams is practically exactly the same as the Rex Ryan example.

JB
11-25-2010, 10:24 AM
Fair enough. I was just picking on the one statement. While I don't neccessarily disagree with you, It irks me when someone states that someone of a differing opinion is blind to the truth, or stupid or whatever.
Because none of us really know, all we have are opinions and no ones opinions are better than someone else's.


Not trying to point this at you, just in general. It goes on way to much on this board.

Lucky
11-25-2010, 10:31 AM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2008/0129/pg2_a_belichick_200.jpg
Because Kubiak hasn't made the Texans relevant in 5 seasons, he must be the next Bill Belichick. Or Tom Landry. Or whatever absurd comparison the Sunshiners come up with.

It's funny that they never compare Kubiak to David Shula. Or Bruce Coslet. Or Norv Turner. Or any other offensive coordinator who failed as a head coach. So many other examples, too. Just not that many that have had 5 seasons without a playoff appearance (Belichick took the Brownies to the playoffs in his 4th season, btw).

Keep dreaming of Landrys and Belichicks, Sunshiners. In reality, we're stuck with a Coslet.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slideshows/329/slideshow_32914/display_image.jpg?x=496242

Lucky
11-25-2010, 10:46 AM
What Lucky is trying to say is that if Kubiak doesn't have enough knowledge about defensive football to atleast identify and hire a competent defensive coordinator, he is not a good HC. Atleast, I think that's what Lucky is trying to say. Sorry if I am wrong Lucky.
That's certainly a part of it. But Kubiak is there when the defense is installed. Through the OTCs, mini camps, and training camp. And he can't see that what's coached won't work? He watches film of the horrendous defensive performances, and has no input or advice on how to correct these mistakes that occur, game after game?

I've said this for 3 seasons now, and I guess I have to say it again. Gary Kubiak is not the Houston Texans head coach of the offense. He's the Houston Texans head coach. He's not made of teflon. Whatever happens on the field is a direct reflection of his ability to coach a NFL team. And after 5 years, Gary Kubiak has proven to be not good enough. It's as simple as that.

Bigbots_02
11-25-2010, 11:02 AM
OK... So I'v been thinking about everything as of late. Our wins, our loses and the way we've played in those games. I ABSOLUTELY want a new def cord. but I don't want a new head coach that's going to change how our offense plays and operates. Here are the facts:

Kubiak was brought to Houston because our offense was close, if not the WORST in the league at the time. As far as offense goes now... the sky's the limit... we make bonehead mistakes but that can be overcome with time. We couldn't score in the readzone or run the ball at all... we can now. I watch them play and I tell you, we could be down by 21 at the half but I KNOW that if that switch is flipped we could easily overcome. I liked the 3 run plays at the end of the jets game... I however would always stressed the importance of scoring.

We are capable of putting up points but its almost like we play to barely win. If they have the lead they dont want to put up more points, just run the clock and hope the defense stops them so the offense can run the clock out some more... If anything, we should be trying our BEST to destroy the other team on offense... Not because we want to make them look bad but simply to compensate for our HORRIBLE def. Until we get a real plan on def and or people start stepping up, thats a reasonable and acheiveable approach... just my opinion.

Tell me what you guys think

HardKnockTexan
11-25-2010, 11:08 AM
I'd be okay with keeping Kubiak but his power needs to be extremely limited. Let him be in charge of the offense but have no role in saying who is in charge of the D and ST. My biggest problem is with Smith. He has failed in grand fashion. Our last 2 drafts have been absolute jokes. Last year, he doesn't address our most glaring need (corner). When that position is identified as being really, really bad, he doesn't go after an experienced vet like Al Harris. Instead he picks up a floundering CB that was released. I blame Smith and his lack of vision and knowledge for this mess more than Kubiak.

Lucky
11-25-2010, 11:14 AM
I ABSOLUTELY want a new def cord. but I don't want a new head coach that's going to change how our offense plays and operates.
What you're saying is, keep Kubiak. Which is why this was merged into the "keep kubiak" thread.

Two years ago, "Fire Kubiak" was the fringe position. Last year it was closer to 50/50. Now, "Keep Kubiak" is the minority viewpoint among Texans fans. The only thing that remains the same is the Texans watching the playoffs from their sofa.

Bigbots_02
11-25-2010, 11:27 AM
That could and more then likely will be very much the case. That said... went slaton was fumbling a over the place, and chris brown was fumbling on the goaline and getting stuffed at the 1, and kris brown was missing game winning kicks... that wasnt kubiaks fault directly but is still on his shoulders and responsibilty. If those thinks didnt happen, I beleive we would already be in the playoffs and wouldnt be having thins conversation.

thegr8fan
11-25-2010, 11:38 AM
Brad Childress record 39-35 with 4 yrs head coach, made the playoffs twice. FIRED

Wade Phillips record 34-22 4.5 yrs head coach, made the playoffs twice. FIRED

Gary Kubiak record 35-39 4.5 yrs head coach, hasn't ever made the playoffs. ???

you do the math.

Also found this quote on Wade Phillips firing first time ever for a Cowboys HC firing DURING the season, article that you can directly relate to the Texans woe's.

Just about everything has gone wrong this half-season. The constant has been mindless mistakes: penalties, turnovers and other breakdowns befitting an expansion team, not one of the highest-paid rosters in the NFL. Phillips couldn't get them to snap them out of it. He tried being loyal instead of benching the guys who were underperforming the most. That only seemed to make things worse.

="http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports/pro/football/teams&id=7771887"

Keep Kubiak?? Only if McNairs LOYALTY takes precedence over benching an underachieving Head Coach.

Lucky
11-25-2010, 11:39 AM
that wasnt kubiaks fault directly...
Kubiak can't play. So he can never be "directly" responsible. Decisions made by Kubiak, however, impacted the results you described. Kubiak didn't play Arian Foster while Slaton was "fumbling a(ll) over the place" and Chris Brown was failing. Kubiak never brought in competition for Kris Brown when he struggled. His decision making, both in game and in season, is molasses slow. Eventually, the buck has to stop somewhere. Is it Glover Quin, Jason Allen, Frank Bush who gets the blame? Or the man who hired them?

Bigbots_02
11-25-2010, 11:50 AM
OK... I didnt really look at it like that. I still feel how I feel but you give a good arguement. Wit that said... So you fire Kubiak... Then what? You bring in some proven blood that will fix the def... does the offense stay the same? does it improve too? The truth is everyone wants change for the better but the grass isnt promised to be greener on the other side... maybe for 1 but not the overall picture. Plus, not as easy to fire kubiak right now... specially with no promise of football coming soon. You fire kubiak and sign someone else to a deal but there no football to play... what then?

steelbtexan
11-25-2010, 12:05 PM
I want a guy who is good at evaluating talent. Who will fied a team of tough guys that teams dont go for it on fourth and 1. Run a QB sneak with the ball on their own 36 with 5/6 mins left in the 4th qtr. (Jacksonville game, and Garrard gained 4 yds on the sneak. Which is pathetic. IMHO)

BTW why ys there not an asst coach on the team that's deemed as being worthy of the interim HC job? Why because Kubes didn't want to hire a guy who could take over for him if the Texans team went through its usual 4 game losing streak. Either that or Uncle BoB told Kubes he wasn't willing to pony up the $$$$ to hire the best asst. coaches.

JB, This is what we as fans dont know. But its got to be one or the other.

Lucky
11-25-2010, 12:06 PM
You fire kubiak and sign someone else to a deal but there no football to play... what then?
One of the central arguments for keeping Kubiak is the threat of a lockout/strike in the upcoming season. So it's not about keeping Kubiak based on his merits. Just the fear that the Texans chances at winning in 2011 would be poor if major changes are made.

Well, guess what? The Texans chances of winning in 2011 would be poor if changes aren't made. How can I make this claim? How about basing it on the previous results over the course of 5 seasons. I would say that the Texans are in the dreaded "damned if they do/damned if they don't" position if a lockout/strike occurs in 2011. So then, what's best for 2012? And beyond? The same old going nowhere fast, with Kubiak? Or a chance at something better with someone else?

I choose change. Because that's all that gives me hope.

steelbtexan
11-25-2010, 12:13 PM
OK... I didnt really look at it like that. I still feel how I feel but you give a good arguement. Wit that said... So you fire Kubiak... Then what? You bring in some proven blood that will fix the def... does the offense stay the same? does it improve too? The truth is everyone wants change for the better but the grass isnt promised to be greener on the other side... maybe for 1 but not the overall picture. Plus, not as easy to fire kubiak right now... specially with no promise of football coming soon. You fire kubiak and sign someone else to a deal but there no football to play... what then?

The grass appears to be dead right now. This weeks win not withstanding.

So yes the grass would be greener on the other side. IMHO

JB
11-25-2010, 12:14 PM
I want a guy who is good at evaluating talent. Who will fied a team of tough guys that teams dont go for it on fourth and 1. Run a QB sneak with the ball on their own 36 with 5/6 mins left in the 4th qtr. (Jacksonville game, and Garrard gained 4 yds on the sneak. Which is pathetic. IMHO)

BTW why ys there not an asst coach on the team that's deemed as being worthy of the interim HC job? Why because Kubes didn't want to hire a guy who could take over for him if the Texans team went through its usual 4 game losing streak. Either that or Uncle BoB told Kubes he wasn't willing to pony up the $$$$ to hire the best asst. coaches.

JB, This is what we as fans dont know. But its got to be one or the other.


Yes. I agree to an extent. We as fans don't know if it is McNair saying no or Kubiak. We don't know that maybe Smith is unable to successful at enticing players and coaches to come here. Perhaps interviewing people for the position is not his strong suit. Do we really know how much control Kubiak has on who is brought in? I;m sure he has the say on the coaches, but even if he tells Smith he wants to bring in a certain FA, Smith still has to get it done.

Changes have to be made for this franchise to move forward. How extensive those changes should be? I don't know, but I think if Kubiak is fired then everyone below Cal McNair should also be fired. Speaking of the FO and coaching staff here.

Bigbots_02
11-25-2010, 12:17 PM
I choose change. Because that's all that gives me hope.

Good stuff... I guess is you cant have a certainty, you've always got hope. I couldnt think of anything better to place my bet on then hope... I guess Im just still hoping they get it together

KA4Texan
11-25-2010, 12:24 PM
Good stuff... I guess is you cant have a certainty, you've always got hope. I couldnt think of anything better to place my bet on then hope... I guess Im just still hoping they get it together

All this hopey change talk is reminding me of Obamas election.

Unlike with Obama, I agree....... only way I have hope for our next season is if changes are made.

If Kubiak returns, I will support this team, I just wont be expecting anything.

thunderkyss
11-25-2010, 12:29 PM
Brad Childress record 39-35 with 4 yrs head coach, made the playoffs twice. FIRED

Wade Phillips record 34-22 4.5 yrs head coach, made the playoffs twice. FIRED

Gary Kubiak record 35-39 4.5 yrs head coach, hasn't ever made the playoffs. ???

you do the math.


I know there are a lot of people here, who know more about football than I do. But some of these arguments don't make sense.

#1. If you don't make the play-offs, you're a bad team? The Patriots went 12-4 one year, & didn't make the play-offs. That's not the norm, I understand that, but good teams miss out on the play-offs all the time. Last year's Steelers, won the Super Bowl the year before, they are basically the same team they are now.... but they missed the play-offs in 2009. Same coach, same team.

#2. I look at those records, the Phillips with the Cowboys, Childress with the Vikings, & to me it looks like Kubiak has done a heck of a coaching job, considering the teams those guys had, and the guys we had.

#3. The biggest difference between the Cowboys/Vikings & the Texans, is that their play has got progressively worse, ours has got better. The last 4 games have actually been the better from a football standpoint than the first 4, even though we won 3 of the first 4, and lost all of the last 4, we have been playing better lately.

& I'm not making crap up, or saying things to be controversial, or to get a rise out of certain posters. That's my honest opinion.

If you don't agree... fine. If you think ill of me... fine. If you think I'm off my rocker... whatever.

thunderkyss
11-25-2010, 12:40 PM
Kubiak can't play. So he can never be "directly" responsible. Decisions made by Kubiak, however, impacted the results you described. Kubiak didn't play Arian Foster while Slaton was "fumbling a(ll) over the place" and Chris Brown was failing.

Wasn't Foster's first carry a fumble against the SeaHawks?

wagonhed
11-25-2010, 12:53 PM
Nothing worries me more than our terrible defense because it is making fans ambivalent towards the firing of Kubiak. That is the worst possible thing that can happen to this team. If our defense leads to the firing of merely all defensive staff and a removal of blame for Kubiak, we are truly screwed.

Lucky
11-25-2010, 01:32 PM
Wasn't Foster's first carry a fumble against the SeaHawks?
Foster fumbled in the Rams game, on his 3rd touch after a 13-yard catch and run. Arian sat the rest of the game. If your point is that Kubiak treats UDFAs differently than high picks that make mistakes (like Okoye & Kareem Jackson), then point taken.

thunderkyss
11-25-2010, 01:36 PM
Foster fumbled in the Rams game, on his 3rd touch after a 13-yard catch and run. Arian sat the rest of the game. If your point is that Kubiak treats UDFAs differently than high picks that make mistakes (like Okoye & Kareem Jackson), then point taken.

We'll never know, but I believe had Slaton not fumbled so much early, had Moats not fumbled his chances away & had Chris Brown not fumbled his career away, Foster would have seen more action earlier. That early fumble wouldn't have been so costly to him (& us).

Lucky
11-25-2010, 01:43 PM
We'll never know, but I believe had Slaton not fumbled so much early, had Moats not fumbled his chances away & had Chris Brown not fumbled his career away, Foster would have seen more action earlier. That early fumble wouldn't have been so costly to him (& us).
The Foster fumble wasn't costly. The Texans won that Ram game (despite playing like crap). Foster went on to gain 216 yards and score 3 TDs in the next 2 Texans games. Both victories.

thegr8fan
11-25-2010, 04:30 PM
actually TK, my post was MORE about their prospective records, than playoffs. Most on here know that making a playoff as an NFC team is easier than an AFC team. But a win/loss record is very indicative of a coach's ability to COACH.

Childress and Phillips didn't exactly take over the Colts team, either. They both had to build and use what talent was available to them to win games, IMHO.

win-loss records are pretty stand alone barometer's of a Head Coach's ability in this league. Both those guys were fired. With winning records. Kubiak doesn't even have that. Yet he is still here and entrenched in his position. HMMMM

pokaholic777
11-25-2010, 05:21 PM
I think Kubiak is a good HC, and I love his offense...The only reason we are so bad is the defense but he hired Bush so thats on him. What I would do is fire Frank Bush and hire Wade Phillips or someone with some experience. But I wouldnt mind if Kubiak was fired and they brought in Cowher, Gruden, Childress etc.

steelbtexan
11-25-2010, 07:26 PM
Who's fault is it when Kubes helped in picking the GM/Players/Asst.Coaches?

Kubes has his fingerprints all over this team.

If your goal is to have a solid playoff caliber team yr after yr Kubes isn't your guy IMHO.

Your right TK some good teams dont make the playoffs some yrs. Some yrs bad teams make the playoffs. Ex. NFC West, if the Texans make the playoffs (unlikely) they will be a bad team that made the playoffs and most likely with this defense one and done. IMHO

wildroot
11-25-2010, 09:39 PM
Wonder if during Kubiak's interview for this job if he'd have told McNair that in 5 years he wanted to try to get this team to .500 if he'd have been hired?
Just a thought.

JB
11-25-2010, 09:41 PM
Wonder if during Kubiak's interview for this job if he'd have told McNair that in 5 years he wanted to try to get this team to .500 if he'd have been hired?
Just a thought.

Do you really think his goal is just to get to .500?

wildroot
11-25-2010, 10:53 PM
Do you really think his goal is just to get to .500?

That's my point, if McNair knew then what he knows now Kubiak would never have gotten the job. He's been "underwhelming" to say the least.

DerekLee1
11-25-2010, 11:32 PM
I'm perfectly fine with keeping Kubiak if McNair insists on a DC that will challenge Kubes for the HC job. Bring in Marv Lewis when he gets fired or Wade Phillips, who can take over 5 games in if Kubes fails again. Just like Kubes likes to have everyone challenge every position on the field, have coaches behind HIM that can challenge him for his position.

Ole Miss Texan
11-26-2010, 09:18 AM
That's my point, if McNair knew then what he knows now Kubiak would never have gotten the job. He's been "underwhelming" to say the least.

LOL, you can't be serious. If McNair knew then what he knows now he'd be a pretty magical guy. Kubiak would be a moot point because he wouldn't have hired him in the first place. He'd a saw how terrible Capers/Casserly would be and any other candidate because "he knew then what he knows now" and would have selected a HC and GM that were great and we'd be perennial super bowl champions.

If what you mean is that McNair isn't happy we're a ".500 ballclub" then yes, you're absolutely correct.

infantrycak
11-26-2010, 09:21 AM
Decisions made by Kubiak, however, impacted the results you described. Kubiak didn't play Arian Foster while Slaton was "fumbling a(ll) over the place" and Chris Brown was failing.

Yeah Foster's debut sure was impressive. Averaged a whopping 2.6 ypc. I mean it was obvious he was going to blow up from that especially with Moats averaging a meager 4.3 ypc in the same game. But we can all look back now and with hindsight pile on that it was stupid not to start him earlier. OK. And yes pass blocking is important in this offense. Arian is getting it now. He threw a critical and excellent block on a TD play last week.

Surreal McCoy
11-26-2010, 09:33 AM
Yeah Foster's debut sure was impressive. Averaged a whopping 2.6 ypc. I mean it was obvious he was going to blow up from that especially with Moats averaging a meager 4.3 ypc in the same game. But we can all look back now and with hindsight pile on that it was stupid not to start him earlier. OK. And yes pass blocking is important in this offense. Arian is getting it now. He threw a critical and excellent block on a TD play last week.


Also, as has been mentioned several times, Foster wasn't doing well initially but at some point late in the season "the light switched on" and he began to impress in practices. The flat-earthers want to pretend Foster was drafted by someone else and is successful in spite of, rather than due to, anything the coaches have done.

To sum up their argument: "Stupidak had the NFL's leading rusher just sitting on the practice squad all last season when he was trotting out Chris Brown every game. More PROOF Stupidak can't evaluate talent!!!!!!!"

Lucky
11-26-2010, 09:51 AM
But we can all look back now and with hindsight pile on that it was stupid not to start him earlier.

Also, as has been mentioned several times, Foster wasn't doing well initially but at some point late in the season "the light switched on" and he began to impress in practices.
Let's get it right. None of us were there on the practice field last year to see what Foster was/wasn't accomplishing. Gary Kubiak was. You may prefer to believe that Gary put Foster on the field at the exact appropriate moment. I question how someone as good as Foster could look so poorly to Kubiak, he would continue to trot out scrubs like Moats & Brown. I don't see how there could be any actual evidence to proof each other wrong. But, I'm not changing my mind.

Surreal McCoy
11-26-2010, 09:58 AM
Let's get it right. None of us were there on the practice field last year to see what Foster was/wasn't accomplishing. Gary Kubiak was. You may prefer to believe that Gary put Foster on the field at the exact appropriate moment. I question how someone as good as Foster could look so poorly to Kubiak, he would continue to trot out scrubs like Moats & Brown. I don't see how there could be any actual evidence to proof each other wrong. But, I'm not changing my mind.


Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!

Lucky
11-26-2010, 10:05 AM
Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!
If you want to give Kubiak & Smith credit for signing Foster as an UDFA, great. I have no problem with that. Overall, I don't think they've done a bad job bringing in talent (though the best year, 2006, was without Smith).

The problem I have is with the development of the talent. The problem I have is with how the talent is deployed on the field. The problem I have is with the results. I don't think everything Kubiak & Smith have touched is garbage. Just that after 5 years, the smell is bad.

Surreal McCoy
11-26-2010, 10:12 AM
I don't think everything Kubiak & Smith have touched is garbage. Just that after 5 years, the smell is bad.

Now that's a very reasoned statement and one I can agree with. I'll say this, I don't like Cowher or Gruden as I believe they're success was largely complementary to their skills. I'm not married to Kubiak. If one of those guys comes in then I'll support him whole-heartedly because I support the team.

My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits. That said, 5 years of doign things "his way" is enough and something needs to change that's a certainty ;)

infantrycak
11-26-2010, 10:19 AM
Let's get it right. None of us were there on the practice field last year to see what Foster was/wasn't accomplishing. Gary Kubiak was. You may prefer to believe that Gary put Foster on the field at the exact appropriate moment. I question how someone as good as Foster could look so poorly to Kubiak, he would continue to trot out scrubs like Moats & Brown. I don't see how there could be any actual evidence to proof each other wrong. But, I'm not changing my mind.

I never claimed to know what happened on the practice field.

Never said Kubiak put Foster on at the exact right moment. Just saying putting Foster on the field against a D that gave up 4.1 ypc on the season and having him run for 2.6 ypc (when Moats got 4.3 ypc) wasn't an inspiration for obviously this guy should be out there. Then he fumbled on his 3rd touch of the next game. I like Arian but I think looking at today's results and saying Kubiak is an id!ot for not starting him earlier is absurd.

As for proof, look above again to Foster's first game where scrub Moats left him in the dust. And again we all know pass blocking was why Brown was in the game. This year with a running game that decision would make less sense as we are less pass dependent. Last year pass blocking was more important than running since the running was so poor.

And hey, I love Arian but he really looks like he worked hard in the off-season to increase his shiftiness and/or understand the system. Last year in the last two games he was good at giving what the OL gave him and using his size. This year he is on a different level making small movements in space, hesitation, etc. I mean c'mon, some folks after last season were saying let's give Foster more time. Most were saying we need another RB. Nobody was saying Foster will lead the league and be beating Chris Johnson.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 10:58 AM
actually TK, my post was MORE about their prospective records, than playoffs. Most on here know that making a playoff as an NFC team is easier than an AFC team. But a win/loss record is very indicative of a coach's ability to COACH.

Childress and Phillips didn't exactly take over the Colts team, either. They both had to build and use what talent was available to them to win games, IMHO.

win-loss records are pretty stand alone barometer's of a Head Coach's ability in this league. Both those guys were fired. With winning records. Kubiak doesn't even have that. Yet he is still here and entrenched in his position. HMMMM

Other than being hired the same year, there are huge differences between Kubiak & those coaches.

Those coaches stepped into head coaching situations & had to get a group of guys ready to play football.

Kubiak stepped into a franchise that didn't know the first thing about contract negotiations, he appointed our GM, & they rebuilt this franchise from the ground up..... not just the team.

If McNair continues with Kubiak I'm sure he'll be taking that into consideration.

I personally don't care. I want the Texans to win, if that means we need to split ways with Kubiak, then that's what I want done. I only hope McNair brings someone in, who knows what he's talking about, not only to decide that Kubiak needs to go.... but also on who replaces him.

10 years with no chance at a Super Bowl is bad..... 15 would be worse... 20 even more so.... etc, etc, etc...

At the very least, I hope he spends several days on this message board reading all the possible solutions.

Double Barrel
11-26-2010, 11:05 AM
That's certainly a part of it. But Kubiak is there when the defense is installed. Through the OTCs, mini camps, and training camp. And he can't see that what's coached won't work? He watches film of the horrendous defensive performances, and has no input or advice on how to correct these mistakes that occur, game after game?

I've said this for 3 seasons now, and I guess I have to say it again. Gary Kubiak is not the Houston Texans head coach of the offense. He's the Houston Texans head coach. He's not made of teflon. Whatever happens on the field is a direct reflection of his ability to coach a NFL team. And after 5 years, Gary Kubiak has proven to be not good enough. It's as simple as that.

QFT Must spread rep yada yada yada...

I know there are a lot of people here, who know more about football than I do. But some of these arguments don't make sense.

#1. If you don't make the play-offs, you're a bad team? The Patriots went 12-4 one year, & didn't make the play-offs. That's not the norm, I understand that, but good teams miss out on the play-offs all the time. Last year's Steelers, won the Super Bowl the year before, they are basically the same team they are now.... but they missed the play-offs in 2009. Same coach, same team.

#2. I look at those records, the Phillips with the Cowboys, Childress with the Vikings, & to me it looks like Kubiak has done a heck of a coaching job, considering the teams those guys had, and the guys we had.

#3. The biggest difference between the Cowboys/Vikings & the Texans, is that their play has got progressively worse, ours has got better. The last 4 games have actually been the better from a football standpoint than the first 4, even though we won 3 of the first 4, and lost all of the last 4, we have been playing better lately.

& I'm not making crap up, or saying things to be controversial, or to get a rise out of certain posters. That's my honest opinion.

If you don't agree... fine. If you think ill of me... fine. If you think I'm off my rocker... whatever.

1. The Patriots were 11-5 when they missed the playoffs in 2008. A very rare occurrence in the NFL. I'm not sure where your examples apply to the Texans, though, as you are talking about established teams with winning traditions that have consistently made the playoffs to the hapless one-winning-season-in-franchise-history Texans. And you're talking about arguments that don't make sense???

2. The difference is that these coaches were more successful than Kubiak but were ultimately held accountable for recent failure. Gary has been mediocre - AT HIS BEST - and there appears to be no accountability in his future from what we can tell. Maybe the owner is keeping his cards close to to his chest, but the case can also be made that his M.O. is to give mediocre results the so-called "benefit of the doubt" by granting more and more chances. Differences in owners that demand and expect success versus one that seems to value other traits not based so much on success.

3. The Texans are on their annual four game losing streak, from a 4-2 record to a 4-6 record, and you think that they are getting better? See, you must quantify results by different standards than most other folks, and perhaps your mentality is akin to that of Bob McNair. As long as the kids play hard then success is subjective, while the rest of us have one standard to apply: scoreboard.

I don't think you're off your rocker, but I do think that you should be reported for bong abuse. :winky:

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 11:46 AM
My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits. That said, 5 years of doign things "his way" is enough and something needs to change that's a certainty ;)

I'll agree with this.

If Kubiak has to go, let's make sure we get the right guy next year.

Lucky
11-26-2010, 11:56 AM
My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits.
These teams would be more stable, had they better results. With many of these teams (Lions, Skins, Niners) the problems are/were at the top of the organizational chart. Matt Millen could hire any coach, but would still be saddled with Matt Millen the GM.

The Texans must have a "football guy" at the top. Whether that guy is the head coach as well, is up for debate. That he would keep Kubiak around just seems silly to me.

Surreal McCoy
11-26-2010, 12:15 PM
These teams would be more stable, had they better results.

Chicken or egg argument. And the Lions have been cellar dwellers for longer than Matt Millen has been alive, much less as their GM.

The Texans must have a "football guy" at the top. Whether that guy is the head coach as well, is up for debate. That he would keep Kubiak around just seems silly to me.

Smith was meant to be that guy. Because he hasn't performed well doesn't mean he was without proper credentials.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 12:17 PM
1....as you are talking about established teams with winning traditions that have consistently made the playoffs to the hapless one-winning-season-in-franchise-history Texans. And you're talking about arguments that don't make sense???

Would you have been happy if the Texans made the play-offs last season? That very well could have happened, & the team/Kubiak, wouldn't have done one thing different. What if the Ravens lost that week 12 OT game against the Steelers last year.... or the Colts wanted to win 16 games last year... or that Malaluga & Odom were able to play week 17 vs the Jets.

I don't know where you stand on it, but if the Texans would have made the play-offs because of any of those reasons, many posters on this board would be giving Kubiak credit for getting this team to the play-offs.

2. The difference is that these coaches were more successful than Kubiak but were ultimately held accountable for recent failure.

Both coaches were fired after being spanked by the Packers. 45-7 for the Cowboys, & 31-3 for the Vikings. Clear "proof" that those teams had given up on their coaches. Since that Cowboy firing, the Texans have lost:
29-23 to the Chargers
31-34 to the Jaguars &
30-27 to the Jets

On some goofy, never seen before crap..... The team is playing, & playing hard. We were in control of the Chargers game. We had the Jags game going to OT, with the momentum, & the Jets game was basically won.

Yes, everything that happens on the field is a reflection of Kubiak, but nothing (I don't believe) that happened in the last 4 weeks says, "Fire Kubiak right now."

He's got 6 games to pull a rabbit out of his arse...... let's see what happens.



3. The Texans are on their annual four game losing streak, from a 4-2 record to a 4-6 record, and you think that they are getting better?

If you don't think their play on the field has been better the last 4 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. Their record definitely hasn't gotten better, but I never said that it did.

Lucky
11-26-2010, 12:25 PM
Smith was meant to be that guy.
Smith is a Friend of Kubiak. A lackey. He's a novice GM and not at all what I'm referring to when I say "football guy".

wildroot
11-26-2010, 12:32 PM
LOL, you can't be serious. If McNair knew then what he knows now he'd be a pretty magical guy. Kubiak would be a moot point because he wouldn't have hired him in the first place. He'd a saw how terrible Capers/Casserly would be and any other candidate because "he knew then what he knows now" and would have selected a HC and GM that were great and we'd be perennial super bowl champions.

If what you mean is that McNair isn't happy we're a ".500 ballclub" then yes, you're absolutely correct.

No, I wasn't serious. I just think if McNair knew then what he knows now someone else would have gotten the job. Of course now he's stuck trying to be positive about the whole fiasco and say all the right things.

Carr Bombed
11-26-2010, 01:05 PM
Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!

Or good thing Arian Foster chose to come here or Kubiak and Smith would've never known what Foster would've became.

Foster chose us, because he felt he could beat out every back on our team (and this was after Slaton's stellar rookie season)....and he was right.


It's sad he didn't get his chance until our doors were blown off and the season was over. And I don't care about what stats he put up in his debut. He was the best back on the team the minute he started getting significant touches. He was the only back who could/can do crap in the red zone...which was the biggest weakness all last season. This is the reason why I'm curious to see who can be our "late season when everything has gone to **** and it's too late to salvage the season" break out player on defense this season. :rolleyes:

Honestly Ryan Moats is not even a capable NFL RB on a good NFL team with depth and Chris Brown was washed up damaged goods who was living off of one decent year he had like 6 years before. It was obvious Steve Slaton was not the same back (Hell I made a thread about it during the preseason last year), yet Kubiak just continued to allow him to fumble our season away and continued to act like the other bums were far more superior to a UDFA rookie. (and please don't bring up pass protection, because Moats and Slaton were horrible also....and it's not like C. Brown was elite).

LOL sorry, but I don't see how anybody in their right mind can defend this coach as far as the running game goes. His decisions with regards to the running game have been down right horrible (Ahman Green anyone) and he just happened to luck into stumbling upon a beast known as Arian Foster.

What has Kubiak really accomplished here??? (Can somebody please list all of Kubiak's accomplishments that make him deserving of being our head coach next season)

In 5 years he's managed to build a roster that excels at playing patty cake football....nothing else. No divisional titles, no playoff seasons, nothing that really has any substance, just like his football team. (LMAO at celebrating 9-7...oh that still kills me)

Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it. Where's the substance...there is none.

We can finally have a elite RB who leads the league in yards and TDs, but where is that translating into wins? Kubiak sometimes even pulls Foster our of the game when we're in the red zone or in crucial situations....Where's the substance, there is none.

And last but certainly not least.....the freaking defense. Statistically (there's that word again) they were one of the best defenses in the league over the last 13 games.. That means little now though, because Kubiak's "hand picked guy" and the man he wanted from day one of his tenure here is some how plausibly worse than his predecessor, who many felt was one of the worst D coordinators they've ever seen at the NFL level. (Yes Richard Smith was that bad). How can Kubiak make those type of mistakes?


I'm tired of hearing about stats and how GREAT Kubiak's offense is.......because it's not, it's overhyped. Kubiak is a soft coach, who coaches players to be soft, and he builds soft football teams. I'm done with it. The thing that'll really stick in my head about this season is the NY Jets Halftime Stats graphic they put up before the start of the 3rd quarter. Houston led in every freaking category, except the score on the scoreboard. That's sums up Kubiak's entire head coaching career. In the stats that REALLY matter, the stats that everyone really care about, he's one of the worst in the business. Wins and Losses.....wins and losses in November and wins and losses within the division. Those are the stats that separate the good contending teams from the perennial "up and comers".

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 02:36 PM
Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it.

Have we ever seen any numbers on this? I know we were at the bottom of the league in 2008, but 2009 overall didn't seem so bad.

I've never seen the official numbers.

Arky
11-26-2010, 03:08 PM
Have we ever seen any numbers on this? I know we were at the bottom of the league in 2008, but 2009 overall didn't seem so bad.

I've never seen the official numbers.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

Texans are currently tied for 7th in red zone scoring percentage (60.61%).

In 2009, they finished 13th with 52.46%. (click on "2009" column to line it up).

I'm pretty sure the percentage is percentage of TD's - FG's don't count.

thunderkyss
11-26-2010, 03:24 PM
Texans are currently tied for 7th in red zone scoring percentage (60.61%).

In 2009, they finished 13th with 52.46%. (click on "2009" column to line it up).


So what is CarrBombed talking about?


Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it.

Double Barrel
11-26-2010, 03:48 PM
Would you have been happy if the Texans made the play-offs last season? That very well could have happened, & the team/Kubiak, wouldn't have done one thing different. What if the Ravens lost that week 12 OT game against the Steelers last year.... or the Colts wanted to win 16 games last year... or that Malaluga & Odom were able to play week 17 vs the Jets.

I don't know where you stand on it, but if the Texans would have made the play-offs because of any of those reasons, many posters on this board would be giving Kubiak credit for getting this team to the play-offs.


We can play the 'If Game' all day long. If the Patriots had needed that last game for playoff position, the season would've been another 8-8 result.

Yada yada yada

We can sit here and play patty-cake-scenario-bake to come up with all kinds of circumstances, but the fact remains that head coaches are held to ONE standard in this league, and that standard begins and ends with winning.

I think Kubiak has done a good job in a few areas of the team. But overall, head coaching is not one of those areas.

Both coaches were fired after being spanked by the Packers. 45-7 for the Cowboys, & 31-3 for the Vikings. Clear "proof" that those teams had given up on their coaches. Since that Cowboy firing, the Texans have lost:
29-23 to the Chargers
31-34 to the Jaguars &
30-27 to the Jets

On some goofy, never seen before crap..... The team is playing, & playing hard. We were in control of the Chargers game. We had the Jags game going to OT, with the momentum, & the Jets game was basically won.

Yes, everything that happens on the field is a reflection of Kubiak, but nothing (I don't believe) that happened in the last 4 weeks says, "Fire Kubiak right now."

He's got 6 games to pull a rabbit out of his arse...... let's see what happens.


My intention was not to compare point-for-point resumes of each coach, but rather the big picture idea of ownership holding head coaches accountable for the results that represent their body of work.

The whole "team quit" angle is not something I tend to elaborate on because it is based upon speculation and perception. Without behind the scenes access to the inner workings of a franchise and deeper insight into player mentalities, it's really just opinion.

But, if I were to accept your premise at face value for the sake of this conversation, and let's say that the Texans have not quit on their head coach, then effort is obviously not the issue here. It then comes down to preparation, game planning, schemes, play calling, and roster development. And in each case, the line of responsibility can be traced directly back to the coaching staff, which - as a whole - is representative of the guy in charge, Kubiak.

So the kids don't quit, they are just the wrong kids given the wrong set of instructions.

I do agree with you, though, in that they have six games. It would be a modern day NFL miracle story for the Texans to run the table against the rest of the schedule, but hey, I'll be there watching (and hoping), so let's wait and see what happens.

If you don't think their play on the field has been better the last 4 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. Their record definitely hasn't gotten better, but I never said that it did.

In some regards I can see the case being made, but the consistently slow starts and inability to close games are deal breakers. They have not improved in any of those key areas.

Lucky
11-26-2010, 04:08 PM
But, if I were to accept your premise at face value for the sake of this conversation, and let's say that the Texans have not quit on their head coach, then effort is obviously not the issue here. It then comes down to preparation, game planning, schemes, play calling, and roster development. And in each case, the line of responsibility can be traced directly back to the coaching staff, which - as a whole - is representative of the guy in charge, Kubiak.
I'm convinced. :)

Excellent argument, though I don't think the Keep Kubiak Club can be swayed. Whatever increment improvements we saw in the past have ceased. Just when it seemed that the Texans had learned to win the close games (Skins, Chiefs), they revert back to their finding-a-way-to-lose manner. It's not working and only the rationailzations have changed. "Lose Kubiak and there goes the elite offense." As if another coach couldn't put together a productive offense with Andre, Arian, and Matt. And the latest, "You can't make a change because of the lockout". When in the same breath, they admit that the defensive staff and scheme must be re-vamped. There's no winning with these guys.

Nice effort, though.

JB
11-26-2010, 04:22 PM
I'm convinced. :)

Excellent argument, though I don't think the Keep Kubiak Club can be swayed. Whatever increment improvements we saw in the past have ceased. Just when it seemed that the Texans had learned to win the close games (Skins, Chiefs), they revert back to their finding-a-way-to-lose manner. It's not working and only the rationailzations have changed. "Lose Kubiak and there goes the elite offense." As if another coach couldn't put together a productive offense with Andre, Arian, and Matt. And the latest, "You can't make a change because of the lockout". When in the same breath, they admit that the defensive staff and scheme must be re-vamped. There's no winning with these guys.

Nice effort, though.

Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

wagonhed
11-26-2010, 04:38 PM
Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

Well we can always say "let's just see what happens". You're always going to have to do that anyway. Doesn't mean you can't talk about things until after they have happened. If we just waited to see, there would be no talk about the draft until draft day, no talk about the season until week 1, and no talk about playoffs until January. Wouldn't make for a very interesting message board.

Carr Bombed
11-26-2010, 04:38 PM
So what is CarrBombed talking about?

They were tops in the NFL at getting in the redzone and 13th in red zone scoring... They year before that even worse...the redzone production doesn't match their visits. This year has been better (mainly because of Foster), we just aren't getting down there as consistent as we did last season.

steelbtexan
11-26-2010, 09:02 PM
Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

I'm all for letting the season play out.

But no playoffs = Smithiak gone, lockout or no. Uncle BoB wont see it this way.

Let me tell you there's no way Uncle BoB could've been as mad as I was after the Tack MNF game last yr. Funny how a yr changes ones perceptions. This yr I wont even care if they lose to the Tacks while starting their 3rd string QB. I will just LOL. The Texans organization would be in better shape if they got blown out Sunday and just put the Smithiak regime out of its misery. IMHO

But I will never root for the Texans to lose. It's just not in my DNA.

houstonhurricane
11-26-2010, 09:10 PM
Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

If Kubiak loses this Sunday (I actually think we roll the Titans) my gues is that he is essentialy done with the Texans. We would be 4-7 and heading to Philly for a 4-8 record. At that point, we are almost assured of a 7-9 or worse record. Six wins only and I would almost guarantee a change.

At 8-8 I think McNair may keep him, but a losing record is going to be tough to support.

Hervoyel
11-26-2010, 10:52 PM
"keep kubiak"

I think "keep kubiak from wasting another season" sounds better.

Seriously though, I'm resigned to the fact that he's not going anywhere. We'll finish 8-8 and hopefully get a new defensive coordinator and staff if we're lucky.

newtexan
11-26-2010, 11:10 PM
The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough

TexCanada
11-26-2010, 11:39 PM
The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough

We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?

CretorFrigg
11-27-2010, 12:08 AM
We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?

I think we should start Malcom Sheppard. :kitten:

By the way, please change your avatar. :fingergun:

TheMatrix31
11-27-2010, 05:07 AM
We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?

Yeah, it sucks that Kubiak (or any coach who gets fired) ends up being the scapegoat just because we can't clear house with the players.

I just believe we're snakebit either way. We're so screwed. This stuff that has happened to us over the last 9 years, it just doesn't happen. It defies all logic.

What a mess. What an utter mess.

HJam72
11-27-2010, 06:40 AM
What if we just found a really good DC and let them completely take over the D? I know Kubiak isn't perfect in all things, even when you take the D completely away from him, but it would sure solve a lot of problems. And, NO, Kubiak should NOT have any say in who is chosen as DC. That's if he even stays.

Actually, that's probably what will happen, because of the whole lock-out thing.

wildroot
11-27-2010, 10:31 AM
What if we just found a really good DC and let them completely take over the D? I know Kubiak isn't perfect in all things, even when you take the D completely away from him, but it would sure solve a lot of problems. And, NO, Kubiak should NOT have any say in who is chosen as DC. That's if he even stays.

Actually, that's probably what will happen, because of the whole lock-out thing.

What does that say about your HC when he shouldn't have a say in the hiring of a DC? Pretty sad isn't it?

What's the point of even keeping the HC in that case? In a small way the same sort of situation Jim Zorn was in last year with the Redskins, perhaps not as bad but you get my point.

Carr Bombed
11-27-2010, 12:31 PM
Yeah, it sucks that Kubiak (or any coach who gets fired) ends up being the scapegoat just because we can't clear house with the players.

I just believe we're snakebit either way. We're so screwed. This stuff that has happened to us over the last 9 years, it just doesn't happen. It defies all logic.

What a mess. What an utter mess.

It does happen......to losing franchises. The Saints and Bucs went through it for decades. There's no such thing as "being snake-bit". The problem is we have a loser running our team and then when they end up losing every year, we want to sit here and damn the bad luck....it's that whole definition of insanity thing. Good teams make the necessary moves and they make their own luck.

The Rockets are going through the same thing and people think they're snakebit......but they're not. Their problem is they keep anchoring their franchise to the bum foot of a broke down 7'6 china man and then wonder why their season goes nowhere when he goes down.

Games are not won or lost on one single play......We didn't lose to the Jags on that hail Mary pass and we didn't lose to the Jets on that last play. You give yourself better opportunities to win games through coaching and Kubiak has screwed the pooch big time with some of his coaching decisions (especially clock management). It also doesn't help when he sticks to the same failed scripted plays and doesn't get rolling on offense until after his team is in a hole.

If we fired Gary Kubiak we wouldn't be making him any kind of scapegoat....that's silly. This is a man who only has one winning (non playoff) season in 5 years of coaching. He won't be some sort of martyr when we let him go, he'll just be a nice guy who couldn't cut the mustard and a person who deserved to be fired. This is a results driven league and when you aren't producing any type of results, you get fired.

Carr Bombed
11-27-2010, 12:47 PM
The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough

Those are Kubiak's players..... He's the one who keeps putting them into position to fail. You get a new coach and he's going to bring in his own guys, so in the end we'll get a new coach and new players. win, win.

Runner
11-27-2010, 05:36 PM
I find it interesting that on all the "Team <insert name>" threads, successful coaches are nitpicked to death as unsuitable to lead the Texans. At the same time, the model of mediocrity that is Team Kubiak is defended based on the team finally "getting it" and going on an unprecedented five or six game winning streak. Same song, different year.

Kubiak is rarely the best coach on the field on any given Sunday. Finding an upgrade isn't all that difficult.

ChampionTexan
11-27-2010, 08:20 PM
They were tops in the NFL at getting in the redzone and 13th in red zone scoring... They year before that even worse...the redzone production doesn't match their visits. This year has been better (mainly because of Foster), we just aren't getting down there as consistent as we did last season.

Actually, this is off target for a couple of reasons.
1. From the same site, the Texans were listed as 6th (not tops) in Red Zone Opportunities, and 9th in Red Zone scoring for last year, so the discrepancy between Red Zone visits and Red Zone scoring last year wasn't nearly as large as the 1st & 13th rankings your post would have us believe.

2. The ranking of 13th from last year and 7th this year is based on percentage of visits that a TD was scored. Therefore, "getting in the redzone" isn't in any way shape or form a part of the stat. A team that had 10 Red Zone visits and 6 TD's would have the exact same ranking as a team with 50 visits and 30 TD's.

So yeah, we've improved, and yeah, we're not where anyone wants us to be, but by any measure, we were in the top half of the NFL last year, and the top 25% of the NFL this year when it comes to Red Zone Performance.

CloakNNNdagger
11-28-2010, 11:21 AM
Those are Kubiak's players..... He's the one who keeps putting them into position to fail. You get a new coach and he's going to bring in his own guys, so in the end we'll get a new coach and new players. win, win.

Kubiak from day one has always been a great game planner.

http://images.chron.com/blogs/fanblogtexans/cartoon2.JPG

utahmark
12-15-2010, 12:17 PM
just to put my thoughts on record. I would probably let Kubiak go at this point(if it was my choice). I probably won't be as upset if they keep him as most of you guys but I do think a change is probably best at this point.

ATXtexanfan
12-15-2010, 05:17 PM
just to put my thoughts on record. I would probably let Kubiak go at this point(if it was my choice). I probably won't be as upset if they keep him as most of you guys but I do think a change is probably best at this point.

same here bro. kubiak's supporters are thinning out.