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dream_team
11-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Can someone explain to me why the long screen play to Foster was called back? I think the penalty was a hold on AJ. On the replay, it looks like he's simply running his route as usual and he accidentally collides with a Jags defender.

Should have this been a no-call? Or in this situation, is it the receiver's responsibility to get out of the way?

I know this is a moot point, since we ended up scoring a few plays later... but I just like to be cleared up on the ruling.

dream_team
11-15-2010, 10:04 PM
sorry... i see the play is already discussed in this thread.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77607

dalemurphy
11-15-2010, 10:43 PM
Can someone explain to me why the long screen play to Foster was called back? I think the penalty was a hold on AJ. On the replay, it looks like he's simply running his route as usual and he accidentally collides with a Jags defender.

Should have this been a no-call? Or in this situation, is it the receiver's responsibility to get out of the way?

I know this is a moot point, since we ended up scoring a few plays later... but I just like to be cleared up on the ruling.


It should not have been called back. Unfortunately, our coaching staff didn't know how to address the issue with the referees. Here's what happened:

The umpire threw a flag when he saw AJ run into the LB on a short crossing route. Then, Foster caught his screen pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. The rule is that blocking can legally occur ahead of the pass if the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage. That is how all of those WR screens happen. However, the umpire is not watching the screen play, he's watching the downfield action. If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.

hookinreds
11-15-2010, 11:34 PM
It should not have been called back. Unfortunately, our coaching staff didn't know how to address the issue with the referees. Here's what happened:

The umpire threw a flag when he saw AJ run into the LB on a short crossing route. Then, Foster caught his screen pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. The rule is that blocking can legally occur ahead of the pass if the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage. That is how all of those WR screens happen. However, the umpire is not watching the screen play, he's watching the downfield action. If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.

WOW! That's a new one to me, I didn't know that rule. No, I'm not quoting Kubiak. I really didn't know that.

HOU-TEX
11-16-2010, 10:38 AM
It should not have been called back. Unfortunately, our coaching staff didn't know how to address the issue with the referees. Here's what happened:

The umpire threw a flag when he saw AJ run into the LB on a short crossing route. Then, Foster caught his screen pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. The rule is that blocking can legally occur ahead of the pass if the pass is completed behind the line of scrimmage. That is how all of those WR screens happen. However, the umpire is not watching the screen play, he's watching the downfield action. If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.

AJ made contact with the LB before the pass was caught. Offensive pass interference can be called starting at the snap of the ball and ends when it's caught or touched. Considering AJ made contact before Schaub threw the ball to Foster it makes no difference where Foster was at the time. You can not make contact down field before the ball is caught.

The only thing that might be argued is whether it was incidental or not, which is a judgment call.

I'm going off memory, so I might be off a little. Maybe I-Cak or somebody could verify.

Texas T
11-16-2010, 10:47 AM
AJ made contact with the LB before the pass was caught. Offensive pass interference can be called starting at the snap of the ball and ends when it's caught or touched. Considering AJ made contact before Schaub threw the ball to Foster it makes no difference where Foster was at the time. You can not make contact down field before the ball is caught.

The only thing that might be argued is whether it was incidental or not, which is a judgment call.

I'm going off memory, so I might be off a little. Maybe I-Cak or somebody could verify.

I believe you are right and it looked like AJ was running his route and they bumped into each other-probably could have been called on the LB too...

TexansBlood
11-16-2010, 11:08 AM
Here's what Gary Kubiak said when asked about it.



H: Seemed like you had lengthy conversation after PI on Andre Johnson. Can you explain?

GK: Not allowed to pick anyone. If running shallow cross route, and Andre was, Andre and WILL LB ran into each other. Hard call to live with. Splitting hairs how deep it happened. Disagreed with the call but we'll see what league says.

H: Make sure I understand, the LB can hit the WR in the box but WR cant hit LB?

GK: Yeah, I belive it's a 5 yard box. It's a judgement call. Were you running a pick or running a route. I thought Andre was running a route.

HuttoKarl
11-16-2010, 11:08 AM
I believe you are right and it looked like AJ was running his route and they bumped into each other-probably could have been called on the LB too...

No...that would be a penalty call going in Houston's favor...that's against the rules.

dalemurphy
11-16-2010, 01:07 PM
AJ made contact with the LB before the pass was caught. Offensive pass interference can be called starting at the snap of the ball and ends when it's caught or touched. Considering AJ made contact before Schaub threw the ball to Foster it makes no difference where Foster was at the time. You can not make contact down field before the ball is caught.The only thing that might be argued is whether it was incidental or not, which is a judgment call.

I'm going off memory, so I might be off a little. Maybe I-Cak or somebody could verify.

There is an ammendment to this rule that states that players can be engaged in blocking when the ball thrown if the ball is thrown and completed behind the line of scrimmage. I'm not making that up. That is why you don't see pass interference on screen passes despite the fact that often another WR or OL man is actually blocking the player attempting to cover the screen pass.

HOU-TEX
11-16-2010, 02:33 PM
There is an ammendment to this rule that states that players can be engaged in blocking when the ball thrown if the ball is thrown and completed behind the line of scrimmage. I'm not making that up. That is why you don't see pass interference on screen passes despite the fact that often another WR or OL man is actually blocking the player attempting to cover the screen pass.

I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. Plus, there are interferences called all the time for blocking down field before the ball reaches the receiver.

DerekLee1
11-16-2010, 03:18 PM
I'm pretty sure you're incorrect. Plus, there are interferences called all the time for blocking down field before the ball reaches the receiver.

Correct. If a receiver makes contact with a defender before the ball lands in a receiver's hands, it's offensive pass interference (PI if it's the receiver that catches the ball, a "pick" if it's a receiver NOT catching the ball). However, if a receiver is running a route and makes INCIDENTAL contact with a defender, that's NOT pass interference, particularly if it's withing 5 yards of the LOS. Much like KW against Jacksonville last year. It's a heavy route-based offense that puts TE's and receivers all over the field at various times, and we get screwed on it from time to time. Offensive picks should be reviewable at the very least.

Dutchrudder
11-16-2010, 03:21 PM
Here's what I found about PI rules:

http://www.footballscrimmage.com/nfl/pass-interference.shtml



Pass Interference

1. There shall be no interference with a forward pass thrown from behind the line. The restriction for the passing team starts with the snap. The restriction on the defensive team starts when the ball leaves the passer�s hand. Both restrictions end when the ball is touched by anyone.

...
Actions that constitute offensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Blocking downfield by an offensive player prior to the ball being touched.

(b) Initiating contact with a defender by shoving or pushing off thus creating a separation in an attempt to catch a pass.

(c) Driving through a defender who has established a position on the field.



Screens are generally setup to where the blockers are behind the LOS before the ball is caught.

HOU-TEX
11-16-2010, 03:27 PM
Here's what I found about PI rules:

http://www.footballscrimmage.com/nfl/pass-interference.shtml

That just means there can't be interference called if contact was made with the actual receiver behind the LOS. It does not matter where the ball is thrown.

In the end, whether AJ's penalty was incedental was a judgment call and obviously the ref thought it was purposely done.

thunderkyss
11-16-2010, 05:29 PM
If Kubiak would've explained that it was completed behind the line to the referee, the officials could have huddled up and the flag likely would have been picked up and the play would have stood.

Kubiak could have kissed his ass right there, that ref wouldn't have changed their call.

If another referee saw it differently, one with a better view, one with that responsibility, they would pick up the flag.

Because a coach understands the rule better than the ref..... never.