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D-ReK
04-01-2005, 03:20 PM
Just announced on 610...I couldn't find a link yet...

infantrycak
04-01-2005, 03:24 PM
You do know what the date is today, right?

TigerBait
04-01-2005, 03:25 PM
You do know what the date is today, right?
lol dang, didnt even let him have his fun.

TEXANS84
04-01-2005, 03:26 PM
Wow...got me.

I hope.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-01-2005, 03:27 PM
You do know what the date is today, right?




Friday? :heh:

Marcus
04-01-2005, 03:30 PM
You do know what the date is today, right?

I heard 610 say it, too. I don't think it was an April Fool's joke.

ThaShark316
04-01-2005, 03:30 PM
I love april fools day! :heh: :thumbup

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-01-2005, 03:38 PM
Don't believe anything you hear today. It's worked for me so far. No one is tricking me this year!

Marcus
04-01-2005, 03:40 PM
It's not an April Fool's joke.

Read (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1601) it and weep.

SheTexan
04-01-2005, 03:42 PM
I think Houston made a BIG mistake!! JMO!

D-ReK
04-01-2005, 03:42 PM
You do know what the date is today, right?

How dare you doubt me 'cak!

TigerBait
04-01-2005, 03:42 PM
still dont buy it, houstontexans.com making an article before ive heard it anywhere else....
What is the logic in releasing him before the draft..

D-ReK
04-01-2005, 03:44 PM
still dont buy it, houstontexans.com making an article before ive heard it anywhere else....
What is the logic in releasing him before the draft..

There is none, that's the problem with releasing him...Why would HoustonTexans.Com publish a fake article? I mean seriously..

ThaShark316
04-01-2005, 03:45 PM
Damn, so its true...whoa, didn't think they'd release him.

Marcus
04-01-2005, 03:47 PM
What is the logic in releasing him before the draft..

Now the crying begins.

Sharper evidently did not want to re-negotiate his contract, making him untradable, and unwanted by any other team.

infantrycak
04-01-2005, 03:47 PM
I heard 610 say it, too. I don't think it was an April Fool's joke.

They also did a commercial for a movie about a year in the life of Yao Ming. But, I doubt the Texans would joke around on their site.

If this isn't a joke, the Texans have a plan for that money somewhere. Even moving up in the draft, they have plenty of money to sign all the rookies without releasing Sharper so unless they need money to make a move on taking on a vet contract this doesn't make sense IMO. Then again, they could use the room to restructure other contracts to put more hit this year and free up room in the future.

D-ReK
04-01-2005, 03:50 PM
They also did a commercial for a movie about a year in the life of Yao Ming.

That's an actual movie...Here's a LINK (http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&cf=info&id=1808656562&intl=us) that proves it...

Vinny
04-01-2005, 03:51 PM
Apparently he had zero trade value. He is going to negotiate his own new deal and forget about the 6mil + per.

Marcus
04-01-2005, 03:52 PM
They also did a commercial for a movie about a year in the life of Yao Ming. But, I doubt the Texans would joke around on their site.

I've been hearing that commercial about a Yao Ming movie for about a week now. Who knows. Maybe they changed it to April Fool's Week. :heh:

SheTexan
04-01-2005, 03:53 PM
Apparently he had zero trade value. He is going to negotiate his own new deal and forget about the 6mil + per.

Can the Texans resign him?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-01-2005, 03:57 PM
Well, I guess it is true. Thanks for the memories Jamie.

texan279
04-01-2005, 03:57 PM
I seriously doubt he would want to come back. I am sure one of the teams switching from the 4-3 to the 3-4 this season will snag him anyway.

texansfan88
04-01-2005, 04:00 PM
He can be signed back but I'm not sure he has many plans to come help the Texans out any time soon

Marcus
04-01-2005, 04:06 PM
I'm willing to bet a 6-pack that Casserly knew Sharper had no trade value right from the getgo. The "announcement" that Sharper was being given permission to seek a trade, in hindsight, reflected that . . it was a smokescreen. If Sharper indeed had any trade value, that value would have decreased as soon as the announcement was made, so it wouldn't have made sense for Casserly to do that if he really was seeking a trade for Sharper. The fact that he did announce it, in my view, was a PR move to soften the blow for his eventual outright release.

stephen1
04-01-2005, 04:13 PM
he will probably sign with the cowboys since they are switching to the 3-4 and they are willing to over pay

Vinny
04-01-2005, 04:15 PM
Can the Texans resign him?I think that is what led to this release. I honestly think they tried to sign him to a value they both agreed on, but sadly couldn't. Apparently, he wants much more money than the Texans feel he is worth at this age and I don't think they wanted him there as a lame duck in his final season knowing he wasn't going to be here in the future. If we could not work out a deal up front I would put our chances of signing him again at slim to none.

DRIFTAWAY
04-01-2005, 04:15 PM
this upsets me, Jamie was a classy player and the solid backbone for this defense, and a great presence for the team. I say we could have packaged him in a draft day deal to move up for DJ. Now we might be left without Sharper or DJ. This would leave our linebackers being Peek,Greenwood,Wong,Babin and a backup in Dashan Polk.

Hervoyel
04-01-2005, 04:24 PM
It will all be ok. Make no mistake about it, a starting LB corp of Peek, Greenwood, Wong, and Babin will make some noise. Depth needs to be added of course but I would not be upset going into 2005 with that group. We'll be quicker and younger.

Also if the Texans decide that they want to go get DJ they will. That's one thing I think we've all learned about Charlie Casserly on draft day. If there's somebody there who the Texans have got to get then Charlie ain't shy about doing whatever it takes to get them. We let Sharper and Foreman go, saved some cap money, and haven't spent big in free agency really. I would not be shocked to see the Texans trade up in the draft to get someone they wanted. DJ, one of the running backs, or who knows, maybe another WR.

This is going to be a fun draft to watch I suspect.

nunusguy
04-01-2005, 04:25 PM
If this Sharper report is accurate, it makes it almost certain Wong goes to
ILB. It also increases the probability that they take an ILB on Day 1 of the Draft, though I really don't think they will go after DJ. Are they really interested in paying OP type compensation for DJ - that's this years and
next years #1 ? I don't think they value him that highly.

Vinny
04-01-2005, 04:28 PM
We wouldn't give up 2 number 1 picks to move up. This is such a weak draft class it just isn't going to happen. Trade values are all relative to the draft class. If you want to think outside the box, Thomas Davis is nearly the perfect candidate to be an inside linebacker in our scheme if we cannot find a way to land DJ.

UberDork
04-01-2005, 04:32 PM
Sad to see us not get anything for him...win some you lose some...

If we can't fix the LB issue this year through the draft, then there is always next year. There should be some real solid guys comming out next year that would work quite nicely inside for the 3-4. Abdul Hodge, A.J. Hawk and Ahmad Brooks(I hope) to name a few.

Hervoyel
04-01-2005, 04:35 PM
I couldn't see them giving up a pair of 1's for DJ either. Not this year. I could maybe see them doing something along the lines of their Babin deal last year, not of course exactly like it since the circumstances are different but similar. That's only if they decide they must have him and admittedly that would be out of character for the Texans. There are options like you point out Vinny.

I think the Texans are standing pat in a number of areas that lots of people think we absolutely must make a move in. This is like that too. I don't see one single emergency need on our team. Man that feels good to say after the last three years.

Marcus
04-01-2005, 04:38 PM
If this Sharper report is accurate, it makes it almost certain Wong goes to ILB. It also increases the probability that they take an ILB on Day 1 of the Draft, though I really don't think they will go after DJ. Are they really interested in paying OP type compensation for DJ - that's this years and next years #1 ? I don't think they value him that highly.

I agree. In order to move up in the draft high enough to get DJ, it would cost us the #1 and #2 picks of next year's draft, not to mention #1 and #2 this year.

If you think that's hilarious, just look at what the Giants had to give the Chargers for Eli Manning, to move up just three spots. And look how everyone got a conniption with what Charley gave up for Babin.

Do you really, really want Casserly to trade up for DJ? :heh: Be careful what you wish for.

Nawzer
04-01-2005, 04:38 PM
Sad to see him go today. I hope that he has a good career and wish him the best. I really enjoyed watching him and he was definitely one of my favorite players.

Now, we have a hole that needs filling. I don't think we'll be able to get D.J., but there are guys available in this year's draft and players on our roster already who might play well for us.

Sco-tai
04-01-2005, 04:41 PM
Wow. :thumbdown

We had better use the money to sign a strong F.A. or that was a very questionable move. I mean....they just released the guy most of us have complained for 2 years in a row "He should have made the Pro-bowl". A team of our youth can not afford to lose a leader like Jaime on D.

Vinny
04-01-2005, 04:42 PM
I agree. In order to move up in the draft high enough to get DJ, it would cost us the #1 and #2 picks of next year's draft, not to mention #1 and #2 this year.

If you think that's hilarious, just look at what the Giants had to give the Chargers for Eli Manning, to move up just three spots. And look how everyone got a conniption with what Charley gave up for Babin.

Do you really, really want Casserly to trade up for DJ? :heh: Be careful what you wish for.Draft classes and their relative worth drive trade values, not trade charts or the cost in draft years with high value picks at the top of the draft class. If we move up it will not cost nearly what it cost teams to move last season.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2005, 04:42 PM
I really don't believe that a player of sharper's caliber has zero trade value. We should have gotten something for him. I would of took anything besides just letting him walk. We had him under contract through next year and could of always just brought him back. The only thing that I can think of is the relationship between him and our org. must of really soured. Something must of happened in the locker room or during this offseason that they aren't telling us about. This really disappoints me, because with all the new teams going to the 3-4 I thought we could of least got a 3rd round pick. I was really looking forward to having 3 3rd round picks.

ccdude730
04-01-2005, 04:42 PM
I'm willing to bet a 6-pack that Casserly knew Sharper had no trade value right from the getgo. The "announcement" that Sharper was being given permission to seek a trade, in hindsight, reflected that . . it was a smokescreen. If Sharper indeed had any trade value, that value would have decreased as soon as the announcement was made, so it wouldn't have made sense for Casserly to do that if he really was seeking a trade for Sharper. The fact that he did announce it, in my view, was a PR move to soften the blow for his eventual outright release.

maybe he didnt have any trade value, but that doesnt mean he has no value. IF (and a big if) the browns were to sign him that might change the way they approach the draft and could possibly pass on DJ. thats one heck of a gamble though.

i thought this would be coming soon, but its still going to take time to get used to not seeing sharper on the field. solid player...i wish him the best elsewhere

texan279
04-01-2005, 04:44 PM
I have a feeling he might end up with the Patriots if Bruschi doesn't return or the Browns...

D-ReK
04-01-2005, 04:45 PM
A team of our youth can not afford to lose a leader like Jaime on D.

Wasn't Sharper the guy who was crying, "Who's going to lead us to the promised land" after a loss last season?

Seems like a great leader to me...Jamie was a few things, but a leader never seemed to be one of them...

Carr Bombed
04-01-2005, 04:50 PM
I would hate to see us trade up in this years draft, because it is very questionable at the top of the draft. I think we should stay where we are or possibly even try to trade down a couple of spots. I also believe as a team we are at crossroads- on the brink of becoming a great team, but still fragile enough to fall apart, so I believe as a franchise this is our most important draft to date. We could be lookin back on this draft as the one that put us over the top or the one that broke us.

TheOgre
04-01-2005, 04:56 PM
This really disappoints me, because with all the new teams going to the 3-4 I thought we could of least got a 3rd round pick. I was really looking forward to having 3 3rd round picks.

The handwriting was on the wall. They basically told Foreman and Sharper that they would be traded or cut. Sharper really wasn't tradeable because he has a large cap figure with a one-year contract. What incentive does he have to renegotiate a contract for a trade when he knows he can be cut and pick his team? He became a lame-duck player. I think they kept him longer than Foreman strictly as a PR move.

Those of you that had Sharper thrown in as a key trade on draft day were fooling yourselves.

mamoo
04-01-2005, 04:57 PM
Sharper was a cap move only. Both management and his teammates liked him. He was a smart, classy player. He's just not as dominating as his tackle numbers appeared. The middle linebacker in the 3-4 is going to get a boatload of tackles. He didn't put fear into anyone he had to cover. Running backs weren't concerned about the severity of his hits. That said, he did his job and did it well... just not millions and millions of dollars well.

texansfan88
04-01-2005, 05:01 PM
Derrick Johnson is worth trading up for. Not many players I would say that about this year, but he is very possibly the best linebacker since Arrington came out of Penn State 4 years ago.

Texan in Japan
04-01-2005, 05:13 PM
We wouldn't give up 2 number 1 picks to move up. This is such a weak draft class it just isn't going to happen. Trade values are all relative to the draft class. If you want to think outside the box, Thomas Davis is nearly the perfect candidate to be an inside linebacker in our scheme if we cannot find a way to land DJ.

I've been thinking the same thing.

Texan in Japan
04-01-2005, 05:19 PM
The handwriting was on the wall. They basically told Foreman and Sharper that they would be traded or cut. Sharper really wasn't tradeable because he has a large cap figure with a one-year contract. What incentive does he have to renegotiate a contract for a trade when he knows he can be cut and pick his team? He became a lame-duck player. I think they kept him longer than Foreman strictly as a PR move.

Those of you that had Sharper thrown in as a key trade on draft day were fooling yourselves.

Exactly! Hate to see him depart, but as an expansion pick his only cost to us was his contract. Easy come, easy go. Good luck Jamie.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2005, 05:24 PM
Derrick Johnson is worth trading up for. Not many players I would say that about this year, but he is very possibly the best linebacker since Arrington came out of Penn State 4 years ago.

Johnson has become this year's taylor. All I heard last year was how great S. Taylor was and how we should trade up to get him, but we stayed exactly where we were and drafted Dunta Robinson, now how many people on this board would trade D. Rob for Taylor. I have no doubt that Johnson is going to be a fine linebacker and if we falls to us great, but I would hate to see us trade up for him when there is going to be excellent linebackers and excellent defensive players at our spot. Also to get johnson we are probably going to have to trade up to tenn.'s spot and I'm not willing to hand them over multiple picks again.

DRIFTAWAY
04-01-2005, 05:27 PM
we couldnt even have traded him for a 7th rounder or something?! better than letting him walk. :confused:

FILO_girl
04-01-2005, 05:37 PM
MAD, frustrated, disappointed, pissed, ashamed, let down. And really ticked off.

Not much more to say. Thanks Jamie for your hard work, I APPRECIATED YOU!!!
:thumbdown to the front office. I am not happy with y'all at this point, whatsoever. :thumbdown

I will stop here, I am soooooooo ticked off.

UberDork
04-01-2005, 05:43 PM
Anyone else think they may be making a little more room for someone like Bubba Franks?

Dunta_23
04-01-2005, 05:52 PM
Glad I traded him for a 2nd rounder in one of my Mock Drafts from another site :thumbup

edo783
04-01-2005, 05:53 PM
They are clearing the decks for sure. Now, is it in preparations for this year or next? IMO, they are looking to get younger and faster, get the experience this year (POSSIBLE playoff spot) and then expect a deep playoff run in 06.

THEFUTURE
04-01-2005, 05:55 PM
with the hole now left, there are a couple scenario's the most thought of one is peek greenwood, wong, and babin. but lets not forget that dashon polk played some pretty good football those last three games filling in for foreman, im not saying he is a savior, but he is a good player that did a lot of good for us last year when we held that streak over the last 3-4 games

blockhead83
04-01-2005, 05:56 PM
I think (or I atleast hope), that this means Casserly has a plan that he thinks is going to work to upgrade our team at ILB. Whether that's trading up for someone like DJ, or a later choice who he feels will excel in our system. Would've it been so bad to just let him play out the final year of his contract rather than releasing him? I'm missing something unless Casserly foresees finding a better fit for us in the draft, or maybe in Wong..? We're not pressed for cash since we didn't make any huge FA signings, and he'd be off the cap when his contract expired anyways...?

tacoman_j
04-01-2005, 06:10 PM
Casserly said that it was a cap issue. Instead of waiting till next year, he is willing to cut ties this year.

4/1/2005

texan279
04-01-2005, 06:12 PM
If you are saying you dont believe this, try checking espn or espn.com..

hot pickle
04-01-2005, 06:18 PM
well the only good thing about this is that we have more money,and maybe there will be more FA signings

Errant Hothy
04-01-2005, 07:17 PM
Thought at first that it was an April Fool's joke, but I cause it's not.

Can't say that I'm overly shocked, the cap figure he was carring was really to much for him. I am kinda sad they couldn't trade him, but I quess it just goes to show that no team thought he was worth the money.

Good luck and safe travels Mr. Sharper.

keyfro
04-01-2005, 07:32 PM
honestly i think casserly will do one of two things...if the price is right he'll trade up for derrick johnson...making all us fans happy...if the price is too high he'll trade down for extra picks...and select either marcus spears, david pollack, carlos rogers, or one of the receivers...our starting line-up for linebackers will be peek wong greenwood babin

anyone see a problem with this senerio?

TexansTrueFan
04-01-2005, 07:37 PM
i like the idea of our starting LBs beign Wong, Greenwood, Babin, and Peek it will be dangerious once Peek learns to become an every down Lb !

TexanExile
04-01-2005, 07:58 PM
This is bringing back the indigestion I got when I first heard about the Greenwood signing. If somebody's trying to tell me that Morlon freaking Greenwood is an upgrade over Jamie Sharper, they're nuts. (AND they didn't watch him as much as I did last year.) And spare me the "in the future" stuff...this team is nearing the end of its so-called 5 year plan and is actually giving away solid talent. I expected the Texans to contend for their division this year and have seen little in this offseason to inspire confidence.

We got younger. We got quicker. But did we get BETTER?

JustBonee
04-01-2005, 08:24 PM
This is bringing back the indigestion I got when I first heard about the Greenwood signing. If somebody's trying to tell me that Morlon freaking Greenwood is an upgrade over Jamie Sharper, they're nuts. (AND they didn't watch him as much as I did last year.) And spare me the "in the future" stuff...this team is nearing the end of its so-called 5 year plan and is actually giving away solid talent. I expected the Texans to contend for their division this year and have seen little in this offseason to inspire confidence.

We got younger. We got quicker. But did we get BETTER?
I second what Exile just said. Something had to have happened that we aren't in on. When the season ended, I don't think the first thing that came to mind was "let's get rid of Sharper to improve the team next year". .. Guess we'll never know what happened.
All the best to Jamie for his hard work and dedication to the Texans. I'm sure he will land on his feet and give some other team some exciting football like he gave us. Thanks for the memories! I am sad.

texan279
04-01-2005, 08:29 PM
I still think that there was something going on between Sharper and the coaches/front office or that something happened between them. To just give him permission to seek a trade and them dump him without getting anything in return is just weird, or maybe the front office actually think this move is for the best for some reason. I mean Sharper was the heart of our defense IMO.

UberDork
04-01-2005, 09:27 PM
Here is a thought as to why the Front Office let Sharper go, but be forewarned it is stupid...oh well it is the doldrums of the off-season.

The front office respected Sharper enough that they granted him his wish for a relatively quick release. They decided he deserved a fare shot of landing on a team before the draft, thus in doing so, the Texans make themselves out as a top notch organization that players and their agents are drawn to. We get no real dividends at the present, but we get preference from FAs in the future. This type of "respect" towards players along with our willingness to give FAs a tidy sum without much hassle could help land us some good FAs in the future.
I am really reaching here to try and see something positive out of not getting any picks.
I figure, if I were looking for a place to work, I would go to an organization like the Texans before I went elsewhere. Granted the team has to be a winner.

Okay sorry for wasting y'alls' time with that one.

travelintexanfan
04-01-2005, 10:20 PM
Any chance they will try to re-sign him to a new contract if no one else offers him what he wants?

Carr Bombed
04-01-2005, 10:35 PM
there is zero chance that we resign him. Although we didn't get any real trade offers, many teams have been anticipating that we would just release sharper. I expect at least three teams to make a move at sharper now and he will be signed away very soon.

travelintexanfan
04-01-2005, 10:41 PM
Any idea what he did to piss off the front office and make this move inevitable?

Vinny
04-01-2005, 10:44 PM
Here is a clue...

Player Salary
1. Ray Lewis, Baltimore $6.93 million
2. Brian Urlacher, Chicago $6.16
3. Jamie Sharper, Houston $6.13
4. LaVar Arrington, Washington $5.63
5. Derrick Brooks, Tampa Bay $4.91

Sharper is not in their class. Not sure of the absolute accuracy in his cap numbers, but he was really simply a cap casualty.

http://profootballsalarycap.blogspot.com/

HoustonFan
04-01-2005, 10:47 PM
This is news to me. I can't believe it. :-< Well, I wish him well where ever he ends up.

Carr Bombed
04-01-2005, 10:52 PM
This is bringing back the indigestion I got when I first heard about the Greenwood signing. If somebody's trying to tell me that Morlon freaking Greenwood is an upgrade over Jamie Sharper, they're nuts. (AND they didn't watch him as much as I did last year.) And spare me the "in the future" stuff...this team is nearing the end of its so-called 5 year plan and is actually giving away solid talent. I expected the Texans to contend for their division this year and have seen little in this offseason to inspire confidence.

We got younger. We got quicker. But did we get BETTER?

Yes we did get better, just for the simple fact that we are trying to construct a lb core that will be playing together for years to come. From day one I have looked at all the players the texans took in the expansion draft simply as temporary spot fillers. Yes I have become attached to some of these players, but they are not part of our future, and yes you have to think about the future. Jamie sharper isn't going to be the difference of this team winning the super bowl or not next year and there is no way we would be able to sign him after next season. So the best thing to do is to go ahead and find and groom his replacement, so when this team is ready to go to the playoffs he will be ready also. This is also why I was upset with the G. Walker signing and skeptical of the Payne signing, the Dline is where we need to focus next. Look we have already overhauled the offense with youth, now we are doing it to the defense. I like this move, it shows that the front office doesn't just want to have a chance to be a contender for next season, but they are putting the players in place that will give us the chance to be contenders for years to come.

TheTim5125
04-01-2005, 11:02 PM
Derrick Johnson?

Carr Bombed
04-01-2005, 11:07 PM
derrick johnson seems like the perfect fit I am just weary of trading up to get him, I hate handing over draft picks.

DoCt3rJ
04-01-2005, 11:09 PM
I'll tell you what Vinny... Babin and Peek, pash rush specialist on the outside, teamed with Morlon Greenwood and Thomas Davis at ILB... that looks promising.

blockhead83
04-01-2005, 11:44 PM
I would be happy drafting Thomas Davis and converting him to ILB. Derrick Johnson could very well turn into a superstar, but we have too many holes to give away that many picks, if indeed we trade up for a high price. I just hope Casserly said something to himself other than "He costs too much," when he made this decision. I'd like to think that he was thinking, "We can get player X for a reasonable cost, improve our defense in the long run, and save some cash."

texan279
04-01-2005, 11:51 PM
DJ is one of the only, if not THE only sure pick in this year's draft...

Carr Bombed
04-01-2005, 11:59 PM
DJ is one of the only, if not THE only sure pick in this year's draft...

there are plenty of high quality linebacker prospects in this draft. You don't always have to take the #1 rated at the position. AJ was the second reciever taken and Dunta was the 2nd cb taken and look how great they have become. Yes it would be great to draft johnson, I just don't think it is worth trading up.

texan279
04-02-2005, 12:03 AM
That's not what I am saying, there are lots of quality players in this draft, but DJ is a sure thing, and I would rather not trade up for him either. Personally I think we should trade down and take an O lineman...

wags
04-02-2005, 12:08 AM
If you want to think outside the box, Thomas Davis is nearly the perfect candidate to be an inside linebacker in our scheme if we cannot find a way to land DJ.

Alright now you guys are teasing me.

blockhead83
04-02-2005, 12:11 AM
Yea, while drafting an OL isn't the "sexy" pick, it can be the smart one if you get a good value at your turn. I think I forget how horrible and debilitating our O-Line is a little bit every off-season, hopefully we can address it somewhat this year.

Carr Bombed
04-02-2005, 12:13 AM
I also think we should trade down. The 13 pick is a great spot to have because as of right now nobody know who is really the cream of the crop in this years draft so there could be a really elite player that falls to us, also if nobody does fall to us we could simply trade down a few spots and still fill our needs. People get confused, this is not a shallow draft it is just a draft that doesn't have STAND out players, but other than that the players that are available in rnd 1 our very solid and are pretty much near the same level. It is almost like each of the first 6 players in the draft could of been taken #1 ovrl. I just think, because of this it is to risky to trade up in this years draft.

texan279
04-02-2005, 12:15 AM
Yea, while drafting an OL isn't the "sexy" pick, it can be the smart one if you get a good value at your turn. I think I forget how horrible and debilitating our O-Line is a little bit every off-season, hopefully we can address it somewhat this year.

I agree, I am tired of some people and almost every mock saying we will/should draft a WR, S, LB, CB, when our O line is needs big time help...


Bengals | Interested in Sharper - from www.KFFL.com
Fri, 1 Apr 2005 21:41:46 -0800

Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports the Cincinnati Bengals have expressed interest in LB Jamie Sharper, who was recently released by the Houston Texans. Tony Agnone, Sharper's agent, told Bengals.com in March that he is looking forward to a reunion with head coach Marvin Lewis. The team is apparently seeking middle linebacker help, given the uncertain recovery status of Nate Webster (knee) from a torn patella tendon injury.

Grid
04-02-2005, 12:42 AM
There are some very good reasons why people are saying dont draft Oline in the first.

#1: An Olineman RARELY RARELY RARELY ever makes an immediate impact, and we are still a team that needs immediate impact players.

#2: The ONLY positions on the oline that EVER really warrants a first round pick..is left tackle.. and the only player worthy of a top 15 pick at LT is Alex Barron.. and he is BARELY worth it. He is still questionable IMO.

#3: We have a young LT that we have been grooming and who we are NOT ready to give up on. Wand had a rough first season but you dont throw a young talented prospect on the bench cause he made the mistakes that young players make. He needs to be out there.. and more important.. we need to try to keep an oline together for as long as possible. We have switched players around EVERY year so far.. and Olines need time to mesh to become effective.

#4: Our REAL needs on the Oline are interior linemen.. and this is a VERY deep draft for them. We can get 1st/2nd round quality interior linemen in the 3rd and 4th in this draft.. and we probably will.

#5: We are working on new plays to reduce the strain on our Oline. More timing patterns to get the ball out of Carr's hands faster. This is a temporary solution until our Oline is where it needs to be.. but it lessens the necessity for using high picks on Olinemen.

#6: MOST Olinemen (except for left tackles) are drafted in the 3rd-7th round.. or an undrafted rookie. what im getting at... again.. just to ram it into peoples heads.. is that YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE HIGH PICKS ON OLINEMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!1!!1!!!!1!!!!one! !1!!



All that being said.. at #13 we are in a position to either:

A) Get a top 5 draft pick quality Running Back.. this is a DEEP draft for RBs with Cadillac, Benson, and Brown all projected to go in the top 10. If one of them slides we could have him at 13. Brown or Benson would both be very good for us.

B) There are some very high quality tweener style LBs projected to go in the mid/early first round.. Merriman, Pollack, and Cody come to mind. We need LBs and we been saying since LAST YEAR that we need playmakers in the front seven. This could be our chance to grab a very good one. (I want Pollack!!!!)


C) There are also some very nice CBs in this draft.. Antrel Rolle, Carlos Rogers, Pac Man Jones.. these are mid/early first round quality CBs .. most or all of which will be available to us. We NEED young playmakers on defense.. and in our pass happy division.. CBs are a big need ALL the time.

D) Wide Receiver.. some people claim this is a huge need.. I dont think it is. We have a WR corp that is very strong already. However, I can see the BENEFIT of having another Andre Johnson on the field. It would certainly help to take some of the pressure Johnson.. and maybe off of Carr as well. SO, its possible that Casserly could be looking at WR as a way to help protect Carr, improve our running game, and our passing game.. all in one big shabang.

texan279
04-02-2005, 12:49 AM
A) Get a top 5 draft pick quality Running Back.. this is a DEEP draft for RBs with Cadillac, Benson, and Brown all projected to go in the top 10. If one of them slides we could have him at 13. Brown or Benson would both be very good for us.

I have not really talked about this happening at all, but I sure have been thinking about it, the reason I haven't talked about it is because I don't want to jinx this. If one of the top 3 RB's fell to us and we snatched 'em up, I would party like its 1999! :woot Don't get me wrong, DD is awesome, but I just can't see us passing on one of the top 3 RB's if they fell to us...

texasguy346
04-02-2005, 01:22 AM
Alright now you guys are teasing me.

Of course not wags. BTW The Texans will draft Pollack and Davis, and then we'll trade Toro to Georgia for Uga (sp?).

outofhnd
04-02-2005, 01:52 AM
Probably as a last resort.

I had a feeling no one would want him if we shopped him. With so many tweeners in the draft no one really wanted to pay that high salary Sharper was wanting. How eerie would that be if the Vikings Signed him? the Sharper Bros. defense.

Ibar_Harry
04-02-2005, 02:14 AM
Sharper criticized the coaching staff at one point during the season. I feel he let the cat out of the bag. This is the end result of that outburst. I too feel very negatively towards what we are doing with our players. I have stated that the 5 year plan was shot down by injuries and everything I have seen so far still leads me to believe that is true. I continue to believe we will be the door mat of our conference.

Are there any bright spots on the horizon? I think the draft might yield some and the reappearance of BJ might be another. I hope I'm wrong about how the Texans are doing, but time will tell.

rittenhouserobz
04-02-2005, 06:26 AM
Sharper criticized the coaching staff at one point during the season. I feel he let the cat out of the bag. This is the end result of that outburst. I too feel very negatively towards what we are doing with our players. I have stated that the 5 year plan was shot down by injuries and everything I have seen so far still leads me to believe that is true. I continue to believe we will be the door mat of our conference.

Are there any bright spots on the horizon? I think the draft might yield some and the reappearance of BJ might be another. I hope I'm wrong about how the Texans are doing, but time will tell.

The Titans are the doormat right now. We may be the coatrack, but we are not the doormat. :wacko:

Of course, I would like to mention that I wish Sharper the best of luck. He won't be getting paid like Ray Lewis. I suspect CC has a wonderful plan in store. The draft should be fun.

nunusguy
04-02-2005, 06:55 AM
Peek it will be dangerious once Peek learns to become an every down Lb !
I caught Peek on 610 yesterday morning - the guy is really entertaining,
fun to listen to, and downright likeable. But I heard him say, and I'm paraphrasing here, that playing strong side OLB is virtually the same as playing weakside OLB. C'mon Antwan, you got no TE to block you/QB's backside on one side and you have neither advantage on the other side.
He says its the same to him either way - I'm hoping this is over confidence
of a youngster blurring reason and knowledge a little bit, because if not Antwan has missed a whole lot in the 3 years of his training to convert from college DE to NFL OLB.

TexanExile
04-02-2005, 07:52 AM
Here is a clue...

Player Salary
1. Ray Lewis, Baltimore $6.93 million
2. Brian Urlacher, Chicago $6.16
3. Jamie Sharper, Houston $6.13
4. LaVar Arrington, Washington $5.63
5. Derrick Brooks, Tampa Bay $4.91

Sharper is not in their class.

http://profootballsalarycap.blogspot.com/


This is on target, Vinny...except with respect to Urlacher, who is overrated and not Sharper's equal. But what I don't get is why this took so long to do if it was so automatic.

Two things: this was a "cap casualty" BECAUSE the Greenwood signing made it cap-troublesome, regardless of whether or not that signing was the right move. And, although we may never know the answer, was this delay strategic in trying to keep Sharper off the market a while, or did they seriously believe he would cave in and restructure?

Vinny
04-02-2005, 08:37 AM
Nobody in the NFL would take Sharper over Urlacher. I think we have a bit of homer-vision on that one.

This is not a cap casualty because of Greenwood. I think it is ridiculous to assume the Texans billion dollar organization would be so myopic and foolhardy to not do the math before they signed Greenwood. When the season ended, they got all their scouts and decision makers together and graded film. What you are seeing is the adjustment to this in relation to the salary cap.

threetoedpete
04-02-2005, 09:15 AM
I couldn't see them giving up a pair of 1's for DJ either. Not this year. I could maybe see them doing something along the lines of their Babin deal last year, not of course exactly like it since the circumstances are different but similar. That's only if they decide they must have him and admittedly that would be out of character for the Texans. There are options like you point out Vinny.

I think the Texans are standing pat in a number of areas that lots of people think we absolutely must make a move in. This is like that too. I don't see one single emergency need on our team. Man that feels good to say after the last three years.

Agreed Vinny. I could see fair market value of a one and one of the extra threes. Don't believe giving up a pair of ones would be prudent.


Ah Hervoyel, last year we couldn't get to the passer and we could not rush the ball at the end of the season against teams we should of ran out of the park. " Standing pat" is not an option for this coaching staff. One of the two lines must be improved for this club to go where it wants to go. With any luck we improve team speed on defense, we fill a few holes via the draft, Jopurru or Hollings comes through this off season and we got a shot. Lot of if's there. But 7-9, 8-8 ain't going to cut to again this year. Had some major personel set backs to forgive . But it's fish or cut bait time. JMHO.

threetoedpete
04-02-2005, 09:34 AM
Nice post grid.

From What I've seen, I wouldn't be too up set if we ended day one with whoever and Bass. I believe he's going to be that good. I hope DJ/ Bass. On the whole though you're right about the o-line. So far though that theory, for this staff hasn't born much fruit. They must be able to establish DD in November and December if we're going any where. Which was painfully obiviuos, we could not do last year. We've had to bring "in" our o-line for the most part. Got some good looking prosects riding the pine. They get a shot at Bass they got to grab the guy. We've waited on the young gaurds riding the pine long enough to beat somebody out. JMHO.

aj.
04-02-2005, 11:19 AM
this was a "cap casualty" BECAUSE the Greenwood signing made it cap-troublesome, regardless of whether or not that signing was the right move.This was a cap casualty regardless of the Greenwood deal. If it didn't happen now, Sharper would have been UFA departure at this time next year. Look for name players to be released from this point forward. Glenn, Walker, Wong, and Coleman will all meet the same fate in the next 1-3 years.

I've been saying on these boards for more than a year now that a decision would have to be made between Wong and Sharper because with their contracts both expiring after the '05 season there was little chance they could keep both players.

cadahnic
04-02-2005, 11:33 AM
This really chaps my ***. I mean I dont think that Sharper was worth anything more than a high fourth low third. But if someone was willing to give us a fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh then shouldnt we have taken it. I know that we will now have no chance at DJ even though he will fall out of the top five. Well I guess Casserly has some type of plan for the team, but I am not convinced right now.

Carr Bombed
04-02-2005, 11:35 AM
This was a cap casualty regardless of the Greenwood deal. If it didn't happen now, Sharper would have been UFA departure at this time next year. Look for name players to be released from this point forward. Glenn, Walker, Wong, and Coleman will all meet the same fate in the next 1-3 years.

That is exactly what I said earlier, we are going to start phasing out the "expansion" players and charlie is going to build his "team" through the draft and FA. These players did a great job in getting us started, but now the youth is taking over and were getting better and younger at the same time.

TexanExile
04-02-2005, 02:12 PM
I think some of y'all are parsing the heck out of this for no reason. Let me get this straight: if Greenwood wasn't signed by Houston, and no other decent FA LBs were signed either, you believe that Sharper would STILL be gone right now? Even though there wasn't the slightest indication of movement in that direction this entire offseason? I just can't believe that. No Greenwood signing, no Sharper cut. And that was my point.

And Vinny, to your interpretation re: the Texans not doing "the math"--I didn't say they goofed and put themselves in a jam. I think they knew what they were going to do with Sharper when they signed Greenwood. It is still cause and effect. (See above paragraph.)

And as for Urlacher, it ain't homerism. I just don't live in 2002. :)

D-ReK
04-02-2005, 02:23 PM
And as for Urlacher, it ain't homerism. I just don't live in 2002. :)

Urlacher had a good 2003 season, too...He was injured last year, so you didn't hear much about him...The big difference between Urlacher and Sharper is that Urlacher is a difference maker...Jamie lets the game come to him, he just isn't disruptive enough...That's the main reason that he has never made a Pro Bowl, despite leading the league in tackles...He and Foreman would always just stand there and let the ball carrier run into them instead of stopping the ball carrier at the line of scrimmage or behind it...It's obvious we're searching for faster, more disruptive linebackers and Jamie just didn't fit into the plans here...I wish him all the best...

Grid
04-02-2005, 02:23 PM
of course he wouldnt have been... no more than we would have cut Kendrick Starling before signing Randy Moss.


Casserly didnt just wake up and read his scouting reports and say "hmm.. I think ill sign.......... Greenwood! give him 100 million, I want him here by noon"

:P.. Sharper was cut because we signed Greenwood.. but it wasnt some necessary solution to the cap trouble we had put ourselves in.. it was planned from the start.. before Greenwood ever signed anything.



As for the reason for the delay.. I think we were just waiting to see what we could get for him... I dont think we intended to resign him.

We are rebuilding our LBs.. sucks.. but it is SO necessary. Our pass rush has sucked for 3 years.. now.. not only is our pass rush sucking.. but our coverage is sucking too. Tight Ends ran all over us. We needed a big change.. youth and speed in the LBs is a good way to go. Sharper is 31 years old, costing us 6 million bucks, and to be quite honest, was NOT doing his job. He was not part of our future, so we let him go. Its that simple.

TexanFanInCC
04-02-2005, 05:34 PM
I think Houston made a BIG mistake!! JMO!

well my opinion is, i think letting him go was best. we have guys waiting in the wings (peek) who need their chance to shine. jamie sharper was going to count $6 some million against the cap when we have guys who arent making much thatcan come in and make this team faster....something that we needed to do. i dont know alot about greenwood, but i hear he is a solid pass coverman and has speed, and wong will definitely give us speed in the middle and he has MLB experience with the vikes. i believe babin is going to have a breakout year because of antwan peek. i thiink that if peek can create havok on the o-line, which he will, then babins job as a pass rusher will be easier. the texans are in a very good situation cap wise, and if we can go after a pure shutdown corner, we can be more aggressive on defense. but yeah, letting sharper go is not that big of a deal in my mind. i think it helps this team bc now we are faster and more stable oin the cap.

Bellthebest
04-02-2005, 06:22 PM
if denver could pick em up...that wuld be great..but not gunna happen :)

TexansTrueFan
04-02-2005, 07:59 PM
i personally would of liked to of gotten something for him, a draft pick wouldnt of hurt, just letting him go with nothing t show for it just seems dumb to me !

Vinny
04-02-2005, 09:07 PM
aj's voice of the fan (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1602) piece on Sharper.

FILO_girl
04-02-2005, 10:26 PM
aj's voice of the fan (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1602) piece on Sharper.
Why is it that if a female is a fan of a football player, that is must be some sort of crush? It can't be from admiration of his achievements? His steadfast dedication to the team? Is this 2005 AD or BC?
:thumbdown While Jamie may be described by aj like he was, not ALL female fans think that way. He will be missed for what he has done for the team, not how he looks in an Armani suit.
But his dreds were awesome, as well as the way he played on the field and how he treated ALL fans.
Gonna miss you #55.

psst...aj...I am a fan of Brett Favre too. :whistle:

MojoX
04-02-2005, 10:34 PM
aj's voice of the fan (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1602) piece on Sharper.
That was well reasoned. No way the Texans give up two firsts. Casserly isn't a fan of raiding next year's draft for this year's booty. The cost to get above 4 is too much. As a number of posters have pointed out, if the Texans trade up it will likely be 6, 8, 9 or 10. That way, if they trade up, they can at least get 2 guys on day one, hopefully 3. I don't see the Vikes moving below 7. That is the Moss pick. They have to make that one count.

Ranger
04-02-2005, 10:35 PM
Another day at the office.

I think this was a good move by the front office, and I'm surprised it didn't come sooner. You see what this defense was with Sharper.......I don't see how it can get much worse without him. The Texans found out that something had to change......they decided to get more speed in the inside. I see this as maybe a change in their scheme. We could see more blitzing next season from Babin and Peek and let Greenwood and whoever else plays ILB whether it be Wong or whoever they stick in there, and kinda leave them out on the island to stop the run and be in pass coverage.

The fact is we sure could use that cap space we now have. We have it, lets see what we do with it.

Mischief
04-03-2005, 03:10 AM
My husband is really disappointed.

D-ReK
04-03-2005, 04:29 AM
I realize J-Sharp was a fan favorite, and he has put in lots of work here (so has every other player), but I think I'll pose this question to the people who oppose this move: Based on the past three years' production, why do you think that we should have kept Sharper, who was going to be the third highest paid LB in the NFL next season?

texman8
04-03-2005, 07:58 AM
Let's get this straight; Sharper is a good LB...he is not in Ray Lewis' class if you go by salaries. Texans want to get younger,get more agressive LBs with better coverage ability. That is why Sharper and Foreman are gone.........Wong will probably be gone by next year (probably sign another FA LB next season) As far as posters crying about not getting any draft pick for Sharper; NFL teams are smart;they are not going to give away a draft pick for a player who has such a high salary figure( 6 million plus) Look at Surtain(Miami)...Henry(Buff)...Pryce(Denver)

JustBonee
04-03-2005, 08:57 AM
Speaking of his female following ... Jamie Sharper has much more than God-given talent, he has the magnetism and mystique that few people have. Much more than a muscle-bound HUNK and ladies man, he has the charisma that draws people to him... As they say, he can work a crowd.
His fan following in Baltimore is still very strong. His following in Houston will stay strong.
I can understand why eight teams have been in touch with his agent so far.
Some here see him on the downside of his career. His detractors can say what they want, but Jamie will land on his feet just fine.

nunusguy
04-03-2005, 10:58 AM
His following in Houston will stay strong.

Sounds like you're a member of the local following, I know I am. I was really
pulling for him to make the Pro Bowl while he was here because he deserved
to in 2003 and it was a big personal goal of his.
But I don't have a problem with what Cass & Capers did - you can't keep certain players on the roster based even partially on sentiment. He was being paid a ton of money and the management made a business decision that the benefit of his services were not comensurate to the cost of the services.
Wherever he goes, I'll be watching his performance with interest and support - as long as its not a Sunday when his new team is playing the Texans.

ginessey
04-03-2005, 02:40 PM
We were weak against running teams. Now we are even more weaker. Imagining wong in there gives me the shivers.
I think that Sharper being released is just freeing up cap room for a major move. Which is why I think the Texans are going to go for Derrick Johnson in the draft. No one in the top 5 is going to take an OLB, and 5-10 only Arizona would be the most likely to draft him. But there major need is at running back which means they would probably take Cadillac or Cedric. Dallas wouldn't take him and that leaves San Diego whose more likely looking for a wide reciever with their first pick. Which gives the Texans DJ at 13. If not I'd look for them to trade up with Tennessee, Washington, or Detroit and pick him up. Which would give you at LB next year OLB Wong/Babin ILB Johnson/Greenwood.

BTAforlife
04-03-2005, 04:20 PM
I agre with that assessment. There are a number of senario's that have opened for us because of this Sharper thing. I believe he will reunite himself with Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati. As for the draft DJ, Dan Cody, DeMarcus Ware, and Darryl Blackstock would be perfect in a 3-4 defense. I didn't put Pollack there, to me he's better with a hand on the ground, than standing upright, but he is a bad ***. This is going to be probably the best draft in years, just because no one knows exactly what's going to happen at the top, unlike the last couple of years. I can't wait.

SESupergenius
04-04-2005, 12:15 AM
Sharper was in his last year of the contract, so of course this years salary is going to be high. How does Sharpers salary average salary compare to other linebackers, even to Greenwood. You are not going to convince we that we've just upgraded our linebacking corps by getting rid of Sharper and replacing that position with Greenwood. This is the 3rd year in a row that our defense is taking a drastic overhual, I strongly doubt it will be drastically better next year so people need to keep that in mind. I think that Sharper started to see that the system wasn't working and was looking for a leader amongst the coaches, not the players. I feel that Capers and Co might need to water down some the fires that are starting to spark in the locker room.

D-ReK
04-04-2005, 12:26 AM
I don't think releasing Sharper is a move to make next year's defense better, but it should make our defense for the year after better (2006 season)...Capers and Co. saw the lack of production from our cast of characters and decided to act on rectifying it now in order to get the pieces in place to make 2006's defense more dynamic...

TheOgre
04-04-2005, 09:04 AM
if denver could pick em up...that wuld be great..but not gunna happen :)

He will sign with Cleveland then get traded to Denver. Isn't that the only way Denver can acquire players now?

Texan in Japan
04-04-2005, 09:55 AM
This is the 3rd year in a row that our defense is taking a drastic overhual, I strongly doubt it will be drastically better next year so people need to keep that in mind.

I guess it depends on what your definition of drastic is. In year one we had a foundation of Payne, Walker, Deloach, Foreman, Sharper, Wong, Coleman, and Glenn. We added youth/talent each year to improve on that foundation--R. Smith, Peek, Babin, Robinson, Earl, Greenwood, etc.

Building an expansion fanchise's defense and offense takes time. I look at these as incremental improvements--not "drastic" overhauls, but maybe I'm arguing semantics. :confused:

TheOgre
04-04-2005, 10:07 AM
Year 1 to Year 2:
Our ROLB left to go to Buffalo (Jeff Posey) via FA, and he got replaced by a poor excuse in Charlie Clemens. Everyone's favorite punching bag, FS Matt Stevens, got replaced by Marlon McCree halfway through the year. I don't consider year 1 to year 2 significant changes.


I do think we went through some major changes Year 2 to Year 3:
DE R. Smith - signed FA
LOLB Babin - drafted 1st round
ROLB Wong - moved from LOLB
CB Robinson - drafted 1st round
SS Earl - drafted 4th round
FS Coleman - moved from CB

That were 6 starters in new positions. That is a shuffle of 55% of the lineup. Throw in the fact that 3 of the remaining 5 starters (Glenn, Walker, and Payne) were coming off injuries, and that didn't bode well for us going into 2004.

Year 3 to Year 4 (projecting so far):
DL and DB's - same eight starters
LB - major changes
LOLB Babin - only sure returning starter (to same position) is this second year player
LILB Wong/Drafted player - If we drafted Thomas Davis or DJ, then Wong would probably play ROLB again.
RILB (is he going to be right or left?) - Greenwood
ROLB Peek/Wong/Drafted player - will likely be Peek

Basically there are major changes to our LB's but nowhere else on defense.

keyfro
04-04-2005, 10:21 AM
good post...i wouldn't mind just having peek wong greenwood and babin as starters but then we would definetly have to add players to provide depth...besides polk, and anderson the other guys we have to provide depth are unproven or journeyman who never seem to do anything besides special teams

El Tejano
04-04-2005, 11:47 AM
Here is my take on all of this because I have to say it kind of erked me all weekend. First of all, whenever a player is there saying that we have to be guided to a victory whether it be from a player or coach, and that player isn't looking at himself to wonder how he can guide that team or at least putting the weight on his shoulders then that is a player we don't need on our. Look at the other guys like RLewis, they will put the blame on themselves before they put it on others.

Second, our defense got tore up by Indy's receivers and TEs, and really throughout the season. We needed MLBs that can cover and not just cover adequetly but exceptionally. Greenwood provides that, and moving Wong to the middle provides that too because Wong has done a pretty good job throughtout the years with us in coverage. Getting DJ only helps that too.

I too at first didn't like the change. Does anyone like change though? For Dom Capers and CC to just up and let a player go there has to be some logical thinking in this that our defense would be improved. Sharper, although blue collar worker, was never a leader of this defense, he was never the leader of the Ravens defense. In Baltimore, he was next to a future hall of famer. I am sure he will go on and have a stellar career elsewhere because he is good, but I think this move was necessary because we can take the heat for it now and prove it to be a good transition or later we could suffer due to cap reasons. The Texans say they wanna get faster well maybe this puts Peek in the mix and all the Peek advocates will be happy now.

Boris
04-04-2005, 12:03 PM
a faster MLB would have gotten us 3 sacks. Of the top of my head, that is how many times i saw JSharper come from behind the line to touch the QB nanoseconds after the ball was released.

El Tejano
04-04-2005, 12:13 PM
Remember how we used to say, why aren't we blitzing more and how come Peek isn't in the game full time to blitz and Capers' reply was because we don't have the personnel to send blitzes all day? This could be it!

Vinny
04-04-2005, 12:29 PM
I think that is on-target to some extent El T. It is hard to blitz when you get lit up in man coverage. Having a faster Buc linebacker (Greenwood) who can buy you another second or two will make a big difference. You are not going to send an extra man if you keep getting exposed in your coverages.

El Tejano
04-04-2005, 01:02 PM
I really did alot to figure out why this happened. I looked up past newspapers of mine to read articles that could've showed this coming, heck I even prayed about it. And all this old stuff was coming to me. That by far was the part that stuck out the most. Where towards the end of the season, Capers was having to defend coaching staffs and respond to questions about our blitzing absences.

keyfro
04-04-2005, 02:12 PM
that is very true...i know capers is high on peek...read somewhere that capers thinks he is the best athlete we have at linebacker...the texans brass knows they need to get him into the games more...and with more playing time i think we'll see peek make smarter decisions during the games...at first i wasn't too happy with sharper release but we do need a strong leader on this defense...and you look back on the past three years did we ever see sharper leading this defense...no...it was always like a group going out there...wong is the closet thing to a leader that i've seen and that's not a good thing...my only question is if we do draft Derrick Johnson, who is a leader, what do we do with wong and peek...obviously it'll be johnson and greenwood inside with babin on oneside...do we just let wong and peek fight it out during training camp...or do we split the snaps each get directly in half til we find out who the better one is

z0rpAn
04-04-2005, 02:40 PM
id say split it by defensives series, let peek have one and wong have the other and see whos more effective leading this unguided defense of ours.

texan279
04-04-2005, 04:11 PM
LINK (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2002229925_hawk04.html)

The Seahawks want their shot at courting free-agent linebacker Jamie Sharper, and they just might get it soon.

Sharper is considering a visit to team headquarters this week. As of yesterday, the Seahawks were one of eight teams to have expressed interest in signing the 30-year-old linebacker cut Friday by the Houston Texans for salary-cap purposes.

Tony Agnone, Sharper's agent, spoke with Mike Reinfeldt, the Seahawks' vice president of football administration, by phone yesterday. Agnone said the Seahawks would like Sharper to meet with coaches and front-office staff and that "he'll probably end up doing it. He feels he owes it to himself."

Sharper, 6 feet 3 and 239 pounds, is a hot commodity because he has started all but one of 128 games he has played in the past eight seasons with Baltimore and Houston. An inside linebacker in Houston, he led the Texans in tackles in 2004 and 2002, and he has four straight seasons of 100-plus tackles.

The Seahawks need help at linebacker, having released Anthony Simmons and lost Orlando Huff in free agency.

Sharper is familiar with Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren from the free-agency period in 2001. Sharper went to Houston in the expansion draft after that season.

Agnone would like Sharper to make any visits as soon as possible and choose a team by the end of this week. Seattle is considered a longshot to acquire him, though a visit could change that.

Sharper would appear to be more interested in playing for a team led by a coach he knows well, such as Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati or Jack Del Rio in Jacksonville. Lewis was the defensive coordinator and Del Rio the linebackers coach in Baltimore when Sharper played there. Both teams have expressed interest, as have the Cleveland Browns.

TheOgre
04-04-2005, 04:21 PM
Wouldn't it be ironic with Sharper and DJ as Cleveland's opening day ILB's? I'm sure some of the Texan's fans were visualizing that as a possibility for us at the beginning of the offseason.

texan279
04-04-2005, 06:20 PM
LINK (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/NFL_SC-RUMOR)

Updated:04/04/2005 from nfl rumor mill
Recently released LB Jamie Sharper hasn't ruled out a return to Baltimore, according to the Baltimore Sun. The team offered a deal to T.J. Slaughter, who would man the weakside linebacker position, but he continues to mull the deal over with his agent. There appears to be a lot of interest in Sharper, who is slated to visit with Seattle this week.

TEXANS84
04-04-2005, 06:34 PM
Adding to 279's post:

-- Sharper May Visit Seahawks --
Mon Apr 4, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Seattle Times reports the Seahawks want their shot at courting free-agent LB Jamie Sharper, and they just might get it soon. Sharper is considering a visit to team headquarters this week. As of yesterday, the Seahawks were one of eight teams to have expressed interest in signing the 30-year-old linebacker cut Friday by the Houston Texans for salary-cap purposes. Tony Agnone, Sharper's agent, spoke with Mike Reinfeldt, the Seahawks' vice president of football administration, by phone yesterday. Agnone said the Seahawks would like Sharper to meet with coaches and front-office staff and that "he'll probably end up doing it. He feels he owes it to himself."

FatBoyTim
04-04-2005, 06:56 PM
the texans are making a huge gamble on D. I think they are finally starting to remedy previous mistakes. I think they better draft a whole lot better in the next few yrs.

Carr Bombed
04-04-2005, 09:50 PM
the texans are making a huge gamble on D. I think they are finally starting to remedy previous mistakes. I think they better draft a whole lot better in the next few yrs.

Lets see I'm going to guess this is FBT from the jags board. I really wouldn't call it a huge gamble, the coaching staff obviously has a plan and feel confident that we will be okay without sharper, cause if they didn't they could of just had have him return next season. Second, have you paid attention to any of out drafts. Year 1 we get our franchise qb. Year 2 We draft the most talented young wr in the league who was in the running for R.O.Y and find a diamond in the later round (DD) who won R.O.Y honors. Year 3 we draft Dunta Robinson who had one of the best seasons of any cb in the league last year and should of won D.R.O.Y. and the fact that he didn't still upsets me and drafted J. Babin who is going to be a solid starter in the league for many years to come, also we found a solid starter at SS in the later rounds. While last year your team had a dreadful first round selection and reached on Reggie Williams, who many people are already calling a bust.

SESupergenius
04-04-2005, 09:56 PM
Don't those 8 other teams know that he's all washed up at the old of 30?

dalemurphy
04-04-2005, 11:16 PM
Don't those 8 other teams know that he's all washed up at the old of 30?

Apparently, all 8 knew he wasn't worth $5 million a year. Which is why none of them were willing to trade for him.

SESupergenius
04-04-2005, 11:33 PM
Apparently, all 8 knew he wasn't worth $5 million a year. Which is why none of them were willing to trade for him.
Apparently the Dolphins didn't think Greenwood was worth $5 million a year either. Not too sure what the asking price was for Sharper, but apparently those 8 teams knew that Sharper was going to get cut since he was already in the doghouse. No need to trade when you can get him for free. Just good business sense, call me crazy. :whistle:

dalemurphy
04-05-2005, 07:40 AM
Apparently the Dolphins didn't think Greenwood was worth $5 million a year either. Not too sure what the asking price was for Sharper, but apparently those 8 teams knew that Sharper was going to get cut since he was already in the doghouse. No need to trade when you can get him for free. Just good business sense, call me crazy. :whistle:


CRAZY! Look, a trade would secure him for a team. Any team that wanted him at that salary could've offered us a 6th round pick and would get him for sure- instead of having to bid against the entire league for his services. The fact is, nobody was willing to do that because of his contract situation... by the way, that's why he's not here anymore.

Regarding Greenwood, the contract is very cap friendly... He won't be making $5 million a year until the second half of his contract. If we cut him after his third season here, the cap hit would be about $2.5 million.

SESupergenius
04-05-2005, 09:57 AM
The reason he is no here is because he is in the doghouse, not because of the $6 million price tag in the last year of his contract. Most contracts are backloaded so of course he is going to have this huge salary figure in the last year. Do you think that Greenwood is going to be worth the $6,300,000 price tag in HIS last year????? Oh, and go ahead a tack on Sharpers $1.375 million cost to our salary cap to Greenwoods salary because we let him go before the June 1. Sure it looks like we are saving money by releasing Sharper, but it's also leaving us with dead money, of which needs to accounted for. The Texans let it be known that he could seek a trade because they didn't want him back, if they did they could have signed him to a new contract. It's all smoke and mirrors to say they are upgrading the defense by bringing in Greenwood to replace Sharper, a guy like that just doesn't fall off in value like that that over 4 months.

dalemurphy
04-05-2005, 10:36 AM
The reason he is no here is because he is in the doghouse, not because of the $6 million price tag in the last year of his contract. Most contracts are backloaded so of course he is going to have this huge salary figure in the last year. Do you think that Greenwood is going to be worth the $6,300,000 price tag in HIS last year????? Oh, and go ahead a tack on Sharpers $1.375 million cost to our salary cap to Greenwoods salary because we let him go before the June 1. Sure it looks like we are saving money by releasing Sharper, but it's also leaving us with dead money, of which needs to accounted for. The Texans let it be known that he could seek a trade because they didn't want him back, if they did they could have signed him to a new contract. It's all smoke and mirrors to say they are upgrading the defense by bringing in Greenwood to replace Sharper, a guy like that just doesn't fall off in value like that that over 4 months.

It's forward-looking. The Texans won't have Sharper next year... Therefore, Greenwood is a huge upgrade over a 32 year old veteran that would have to be overpaid to stay here next season. Regarding backloading contracts, that is my point. A five year contract usually isn't really that. When looking at the value of Greenwood's contract, look at the first three years and the signing bonus proration- it's a very friendly contract that gives the Texans flexibility and a LB who will be here through the prime years of his career.

How do you know why the Texans are releasing Sharper? I'd say there are more than one reason why. And part of it is his cap number this year and the fact that he won't be here next year.

Again, if he is worth the salary of his 05 contract, why was no team in the NFL willing to secure him for a 6th round or even 7th round pick?

infantrycak
04-05-2005, 11:07 AM
The Texans let it be known that he could seek a trade because they didn't want him back, if they did they could have signed him to a new contract.

There is an assumption in here that may not be true--that Jamie was willing to work out a reasonble contract extension. Both sides said they were working on an extension deal, i.e. the Texans did want him back and Sharper wanted or was willing to come back. Clearly the two sides could not agree on the amount and/or term of the contract. We simply don't know if the Texans were low-balling Sharper at under his market value or Sharper was looking for one last big contract with a signing bonus destined to become dead money when he only played 4 of 7 years. I am very curious to see what other teams are willing to pay him.

JustBonee
04-05-2005, 11:44 AM
Since the rumors are out there that Jamie is interested in Baltimore, money may not be the biggest motivator in that scenario. Maybe he would like to try for a second Super Bowl win with them.

SESupergenius
04-05-2005, 12:12 PM
Greenwood is a huge upgrade over a 32 year old veteran that would have to be overpaid to stay here next season. That is strictly your opinion and it is my opinion that Sharper is the better player of the two. I wouldn't classify Greenwood as a HUGE upgrade over Sharper. And you really can't throw age into too much because Sharper is 32, not 39. Although Mcginnest is chucking along well at his old age of 35. Sharper had his best season the previous year and all of the sudden he's old?? Na, that doesn't fly.

Regarding backloading contracts, that is my point. A five year contract usually isn't really that. When looking at the value of Greenwood's contract, look at the first three years and the signing bonus proration- it's a very friendly contract that gives the Texans flexibility and a LB who will be here through the prime years of his career.Why look at only 3 years?? If he's any good he'll be here for the extent of his contract. And why didn't the Texans let go of Sharper last year, that could have saved us a ton of money! And if you want to talk about money then we should have cut him after June 1 to spread out the cap hit over 2 seasons, enabling us to pursue a Quality FA.



Again, if he is worth the salary of his 05 contract, why was no team in the NFL willing to secure him for a 6th round or even 7th round pick?Again, because teams knew that Sharper was in the doghouse and no agreement was going to get reached. No reason to give up a draft pick if you can wait until the Texans release him. He's not on the same level as a super star, but then again either is Greenwood. But there is a reason 8 teams are looking at him right as he's released.

SESupergenius
04-05-2005, 12:13 PM
. I am very curious to see what other teams are willing to pay him.I am curious too, but we know that Greenwood was overpaid.

dalemurphy
04-05-2005, 01:05 PM
SES, you are very bull-headed. As I've said, the reason a team would trade for Sharper is to secure him. If that wanted him, they could get him with certainly through a trade. Now, if they want him, they have to bid with other teams and are left waiting on Sharper's decision as to where he wants to play.

Also, my point about Greenwood is that he's not overpaid. If he doesn't turn out to be a high quality LB, he will have been paid the equivalent of a borderline starter for three seasons and then can be dumped for a small cap hit after that. If he is good, then the team can choose to pay the balooned amount of $6 million the final two seasons.

Finally, if the Texans have cap room this season and they are on a five year plan, why wouldn't they absorb the whole cap hit this year so that they are free and clear of Sharper's cap hit next season- that way they can go after a bigger free agent.

SESupergenius
04-05-2005, 02:51 PM
SES, you are very bull-headed. As I've said, the reason a team would trade for Sharper is to secure him. If that wanted him, they could get him with certainly through a trade. Now, if they want him, they have to bid with other teams and are left waiting on Sharper's decision as to where he wants to play.

Also, my point about Greenwood is that he's not overpaid. If he doesn't turn out to be a high quality LB, he will have been paid the equivalent of a borderline starter for three seasons and then can be dumped for a small cap hit after that. If he is good, then the team can choose to pay the balooned amount of $6 million the final two seasons.

Finally, if the Texans have cap room this season and they are on a five year plan, why wouldn't they absorb the whole cap hit this year so that they are free and clear of Sharper's cap hit next season- that way they can go after a bigger free agent.

Yes I am bull-headed, but this is just how I honestly feel.

Sure they could have offered a deal with the Texans, but maybe the Texans were asking too much (I have no idea what they were looking for) or they were waiting for him to get cut and not too many would be interested. Even if teams have to go into a bidding war it would still be less than having to pick up the last year of his salary AND a draft pick or other player. With so many teams switching to the 3-4 this year it is beyond me why we couldn't have gotten SOMETHING for Sharper. Would you not agree that it is odd we didn't even get a 7th round draft pick for him? MAybe the Texans felt that a 7th rounder is really worth it and just released him, who knows.

I'm not so bull-headed to see that you make a good point about Greenwood. He may turn out to be a cheap player with decent skills. I tend to think that Greenwood is just an average player who is of lesser talent than Sharper and we are losing a good player because he was in the doghouse about how this team is progressing. I contend that Sharper had a down year by comparision to his previous years, but didn't have an aweful on for him to be cut. Was he worth the $6 mil? Only next season will we be able tell how much leadership and experience we are actually losing.

As far as your comment on taking the whole cap hit this year, it's just a matter of how you view things. Some GM's like to spread it out, some don't. My case is that if we are going to be competitive next year then I'd like to bring in a player this year to be in our system, gel with the players and learn the plays, develop relationships and cohesion, then next year we will have experience, something I feel we have lacked the most with all of our shifting of players, injuries and noobies.

infantrycak
04-05-2005, 03:00 PM
I am curious too, but we know that Greenwood was overpaid.

I don't get into the certainty of knowing what players are worth--just like draft position, there is no bar code where you can ring them up and see what is "fair value." IMO what you see every year is a creep in contracts--more money to go around in the cap so comparable players 2-3 years apart in signing get more money. Nonetheless, people express surprise at many of the FA signings every year as if teams are overpaying. Riddle me this--when was the last time you heard of a FA acquisition where everyone went oohhhh he got underpaid?

SESupergenius
04-05-2005, 03:38 PM
-when was the last time you heard of a FA acquisition where everyone went oohhhh he got underpaid?
That doesn't work either, they are ALL overpaid.

TEXANS84
04-06-2005, 02:13 AM
Bengals | Talks Continue With Sharper - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 5 Apr 2005 19:18:14 -0700

Updating ongoing reports, according to Geoff Hobson of Bengals.com, the Cincinnati Bengals are currently negotiating a contract with free agent LB Jamie Sharper (Texans).

TheOgre
04-06-2005, 08:54 AM
IMO we did overpay for Greenwood. Not because of what he MIGHT do. He could very well fit better in our system better than in Miami's. It is like when A-Rod got that $25 million a year contract. Were we bidding against ourselves or was there really that much of a demand for this guy? Allegedly he had 12 teams interested in him, but his agent steered him towards the Texans for some reason. Greenwood said his agent told him, "Go visit Houston first. You will fall in love with the team." or something to that effect.

As for Sharper's dead money, he is in the last year of his contract. Lets say we had cut him after June 1, could we have counted part of the dead money towards 2006 even though his contract expired in 2005? I guess that is an AJ question. I was just curious.

During their negotiations for a contract extension, I have a feeling they were way off in their figures. It probably became very apparent that Sharper would leave after 2005. If that is the case, why pay him that large cap figure for 2005? We are already going to count his remaining signing bonus regardless, so why not move on to our new plan?

infantrycak
04-06-2005, 09:09 AM
IMO we did overpay for Greenwood.

I am just curious how people form their opinions of market value. What was the "fair" market value and how did you come to form it?

Kendrell Bell (coming off shoulder and groin injuries--not exactly highspots in Texans history) got a larger bonus and contract. Yes his original upside may justify a higher contract than Greenwood, but how much do you discount for the injuries? What was his fair market value without the injury concerns?

Edgerton Hartwell got a very similar contract to Greenwood. Maybe his fmv should be higher than Greenwood's, but then again he doesn't seem to fit what the Texans were looking for in a speedy coverage LB. Was there another FA LB who actually filled the same profile/role as Greenwood?

IMO the comparisons are so hard to make (player athleticism, experience, age, injuries and fit for the system) and the sample sizes for comparison so small it is very hard to form hard and fast ideas on fmv.

TEXANS84
04-06-2005, 02:04 PM
Sharper visiting the Seahawks tomorrow:

Article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2002232218_hawk06.html)

Jamie Sharper, the former Houston Texans linebacker whose services are being sought by at least eight teams, is scheduled to visit with the Seahawks in Kirkland tomorrow.

Sharper, released by Houston last week for salary-cap purposes, is still believed a longshot to sign with the Seahawks. That is in large part because of his unfamiliarity with the Seattle front office and coaching staff, but Sharper will meet many of those people tomorrow.

He indicated last weekend that he felt he should see what was out there in free agency, hence the decision to visit the Seahawks.

Sharper and his agent would like to reach a decision as to where the 30-year-old will sign before the end of the week. Sharper has started 127 of the past 128 games and has not missed a regular-season game in eight seasons with the Baltimore Ravens and Houston. He has 100 or more tackles in four consecutive seasons.

The Cleveland Browns, Jacksonville Jaguars and Cincinnati Bengals are among the other interested teams.

The Seahawks would likely have to free up salary-cap space by restructuring contracts in order to sign Sharper.

TexansTrueFan
04-06-2005, 10:35 PM
well he will be a good pick up for which ever team signs him. I think he is still a great linebacker and will miss him next season.

TexansFanInPA
04-06-2005, 10:40 PM
I think the release of Sharper was a huge mistake and we will miss him during the season. He may not have trade value but he worked his *** off for the team. My opinion is that its a huge loss.

D-ReK
04-06-2005, 10:54 PM
Meh, he's replacable...Simply put, he didn't fit into our future plans...A guy like Crowder, Ruud, Thurman, DJ, Kevin Burnett, or Thomas Davis would easily take up the slack left by Sharper's release and cost less too...

TexansFanInPA
04-06-2005, 10:58 PM
Yeah, you're right. He was one of my fav. Texans. So I have a tendincey to take his relase to heart. I'm sure the Texans will make do.

TexansTrueFan
04-06-2005, 10:58 PM
Meh, he's replacable...Simply put, he didn't fit into our future plans...A guy like Crowder, Ruud, Thurman, DJ, Kevin Burnett, or Thomas Davis would easily take up the slack left by Sharper's release and cost less too...


u can say that but only time will tell. and until i see that his production has been equally or better replaced i will keep saying that letting him go was a mistake.

D-ReK
04-06-2005, 11:04 PM
What did he do that was so productive? He got a bunch of tackles in a system where the ILBs get most of the tackles, saw his sack totals decline over his 3 years here, and never got an INT...The only impressive thing he did here last year was force 3 fumbles...Jamie was a likable guy and all, but I think too many people are looking through steel blue glasses and giving him credit for being better than he was...I wish him the best, but we'll be fine without him...

TexansTrueFan
04-06-2005, 11:08 PM
What did he do that was so productive? He got a bunch of tackles in a system where the ILBs get most of the tackles, saw his sack totals decline over his 3 years here, and never got an INT...The only impressive thing he did here last year was force 3 fumbles...Jamie was a likable guy and all, but I think too many people are looking through steel blue glasses and giving him credit for being better than he was...I wish him the best, but we'll be fine without him...


i'm just saying that i am a little worried about losing him UNTIL i see whoever replaces him (greenwood) gets the job done as good/better than sharper did. And he had very comparible numbers to the other 3-4 teams LBs !

TexansFanInPA
04-06-2005, 11:10 PM
I agree with TrueTexansFan. It was a mistake. Unless whoever they get does as good or better then him.

D-ReK
04-06-2005, 11:24 PM
i'm just saying that i am a little worried about losing him UNTIL i see whoever replaces him (greenwood) gets the job done as good/better than sharper did. And he had very comparible numbers to the other 3-4 teams LBs !

Greenwood is replacing Foreman at the buc LB position, and there is no doubt in my mind that he'll be better than Jay was...Currently, we have nobody on the roster that I would feel comfortable replacing Sharper, but it's a given we'll get someone in the draft...As far as comparing him to other LBs, whose numbers were his comparable to? I did a quick look at stats, and the player closest to Sharper's production last year was Randall Godfrey of the Chargers who is past his prime (keep in mind Sharper does have more tackles, but our system filters most of the tackles to the ILBs)...

TexansTrueFan
04-06-2005, 11:42 PM
Greenwood is replacing Foreman at the buc LB position, and there is no doubt in my mind that he'll be better than Jay was...Currently, we have nobody on the roster that I would feel comfortable replacing Sharper, but it's a given we'll get someone in the draft...As far as comparing him to other LBs, whose numbers were his comparable to? I did a quick look at stats, and the player closest to Sharper's production last year was Randall Godfrey of the Chargers who is past his prime (keep in mind Sharper does have more tackles, but our system filters most of the tackles to the ILBs)...


i think Wong will move back in to ILB, that would leave us with

ILB Wong-Greenwood

OLB Babin-Peek

and i feel that cast of players would be fine, i think peek can become an every down player.

Vinny
04-06-2005, 11:57 PM
I finally came to the conclusion (in some other thread) that Greenwood will play Sharper's Mac spot. Capers was quoted somewhere as to Greenwood being the ideal player for this position. I think the camp right after the draft will give us our first real glimpse though.

D-ReK
04-06-2005, 11:58 PM
I'm kinda iffy on having Wong take over for Sharper...When he played at ILB last preseason (can't remember if he was playing mac or buc) he looked lost out there...He has the coverage ability and rushing ability, but I'm still unsure of him versus the run...I think Wong will probably not get resigned after next season, though, and we should draft an ILB and have him waiting in the wings if Wong isn't brought back...

TexansTrueFan
04-07-2005, 12:01 AM
he always seemed like a sure tackler versus the run to me,never thought that was much of a weakness. and wong is very good in coverage.

D-ReK
04-07-2005, 12:14 AM
I finally came to the conclusion (in some other thread) that Greenwood will play Sharper's Mac spot. Capers was quoted somewhere as to Greenwood being the ideal player for this position. I think the camp right after the draft will give us our first real glimpse though.

:shocked I thought for sure Greenwood would play the Buc...His strengths seem to suit that position better, but who knows...That's what camp is for...

El Tejano
04-07-2005, 02:09 PM
One thing is for sure, alot of our players wont be taking their jobs lightly now that they saw a potential all pro get cut.

TEXANS84
04-07-2005, 04:33 PM
-- Sharper Visits Bengals --
Thu Apr 7, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Cincinnati Bengals official website reports the agent for former Texans LB Jamie Sharper confirmed on Wednesday night his client's visit to Cincinnati. Tony Agnone, who has yet to delve into deep negotiations with the Bengals, said Sharper also plans to meet with club officials Thursday at Paul Brown Stadium before joining Agnone in Seattle for a visit with the Seahawks. He's also talking to Jacksonville, Baltimore, and "he has other options," Agnone said.



I wonder what those "other options" are.

JustBonee
04-07-2005, 05:23 PM
I wonder what those "other options" are.

Won't be the Texans if that is what you are thinking. No way.

texan279
04-07-2005, 05:25 PM
I wonder what those "other options" are.

I am thinking Cleveland and Dallas...

Grid
04-07-2005, 05:51 PM
if hes goes to Jacksonville.. we need to make sure we draft a Cedric Benson or Eric Shelton type of RB. Someone we can put in there to run his butt over.

texan279
04-07-2005, 06:03 PM
Actually, Jacksonville has the most cap room available out of all of the teams who are interested in Jamie, like a little over $11 million, so if he signs with the team who offers him the most money, it could very likely be Jacksonville if they want him bad enough and are willing to show him the money. I was over at the Seahawks MB a few minutes ago and someone over there sai there are only like $1 mil under the cap right now...

TEXANS84
04-07-2005, 06:08 PM
Won't be the Texans if that is what you are thinking. No way.

No, I was thinking more of the lines of the Pats, which would still be a complete longshot.

texan279
04-07-2005, 06:11 PM
No, I was thinking more of the lines of the Pats, which would still be a complete longshot.

Not if Bruschi doesn't return for the '05 season. And not if Jamie is more concerned with a shot at winning it all and not money...

JustBonee
04-07-2005, 06:17 PM
He could have visions of winning it all again with the Ravens too. Guess we'll see pretty soon where he lands.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
04-07-2005, 06:20 PM
My guess is he reunites with Marvin Lewis on the Bengals.

Hit Em Up
04-07-2005, 07:54 PM
MAD, frustrated, disappointed, pissed, ashamed, let down. And really ticked off.

Not much more to say. Thanks Jamie for your hard work, I APPRECIATED YOU!!!
:thumbdown to the front office. I am not happy with y'all at this point, whatsoever. :thumbdown

I will stop here, I am soooooooo ticked off.
awwwww booo hooo cry me a river!!!!!!!!! he asked to be traded and nobody was willing to do it. He was due 6.3 million and he got released, so dont blame your frustrations on the front office blame it on yourself!!!

Hit Em Up
04-07-2005, 07:58 PM
I think the release of Sharper was a huge mistake and we will miss him during the season. He may not have trade value but he worked his *** off for the team. My opinion is that its a huge loss.
He wanted to be traded and no one was willing to..............the front office done what had to be done end of story

AndreJ
04-07-2005, 08:49 PM
He wanted to be traded and no one was willing to..............the front office done what had to be done end of story

keep it going Hit Em Up let em know how it belong :woot . People round here actin like they just broke up with a loved one. I liked the guy too and the hard work he put in, but hey its also a business and you gotta expect things to come like this. I just hope we get some real good production out of the replacements we have and will require.

TexansTrueFan
04-07-2005, 08:53 PM
awwwww booo hooo cry me a river!!!!!!!!! he asked to be traded and nobody was willing to do it. He was due 6.3 million and he got released, so dont blame your frustrations on the front office blame it on yourself!!!


actually he didnt ask to be traded, we told him we'd give him a chance to seek out trades before we released him. Get ur facts straight !

Hit Em Up
04-07-2005, 09:10 PM
well sorry im not a Texans fan but i know that the front office wasnt to blame. his cap figure was too high and he was released, thats just the nature of the beast (hey that rhymes!)

TexansTrueFan
04-07-2005, 09:14 PM
well i dont see how the front office is not to blame, they didnt wanna pay him the money he deserved to get so they gave him an option, seek a trade or be released. I dont see how that doesnt involve the front office,,,,so i think they are to fully blame. But with saying that i do think his production was on a decline and it'll be good to get some young blood at the LB position IMO !

infantrycak
04-07-2005, 10:29 PM
well i dont see how the front office is not to blame, they didnt wanna pay him the money he deserved to get so they gave him an option, seek a trade or be released.

While I think Sharper is a very good LB and was great for the Texans the 1st two years, he did not deserve to be paid like Ray Lewis. Something for folks to remember in this, the Texans didn't negotiate this contract with Sharper--this was a contract taken over in the expansion draft. The reports from both sides were the Texans and Sharper wanted to work out an extension so both sides (a) wanted to stay together (b) thought Sharper was still productive and (c) fit the system fine--they obviously disagreed on the amount and/or length of the contract. We will never know whether Sharper was demanding fair market value and the Texans weren't paying it or the Texans were offering fmv and Sharper wouldn't take it. IMO the only question in the deal is whether it was smart to release him now or say goodbye after this season.

D-ReK
04-07-2005, 11:07 PM
Personally, I think we should have kept him here and let him play out his contract, but maybe the organization wants to just get on with the future and see what we have here after the draft...None of us truely know what the FO was thinking with this move, but I'm anxious to see the result...

TexansFanInPA
04-07-2005, 11:28 PM
Yeah...Well I personally will be a fan of his where ever he goes. I'm kinda hopein he had an off season.

SESupergenius
04-07-2005, 11:33 PM
While I think Sharper is a very good LB and was great for the Texans the 1st two years, he did not deserve to be paid like Ray Lewis.
Ray Lewis signed a seven-year, $50-million contract with a $19-million bonus, how does that fall in line with Sharpers?


they obviously disagreed on the amount and/or length of the contract. We will never know whether Sharper was demanding fair market value and the Texans weren't paying it or the Texans were offering fmv and Sharper wouldn't take it.
And yet we give the huge salaries to Walker (coming straight off and injury) Glenn (2 years older than Sharper) but shun Sharper for playing in almost every game and being a staple for the defense. And speaking of his decline last year, why is he getting no slack for his knee injury?

IMO the only question in the deal is whether it was smart to release him now or say goodbye after this season.My thinking is that the Texans are planning for something big, no way you "upgrade" your defense by signing Greenwood and Moreno.....stay tuned.

TexansTrueFan
04-08-2005, 07:20 AM
While I think Sharper is a very good LB and was great for the Texans the 1st two years, he did not deserve to be paid like Ray Lewis. Something for folks to remember in this, the Texans didn't negotiate this contract with Sharper--this was a contract taken over in the expansion draft. The reports from both sides were the Texans and Sharper wanted to work out an extension so both sides (a) wanted to stay together (b) thought Sharper was still productive and (c) fit the system fine--they obviously disagreed on the amount and/or length of the contract. We will never know whether Sharper was demanding fair market value and the Texans weren't paying it or the Texans were offering fmv and Sharper wouldn't take it. IMO the only question in the deal is whether it was smart to release him now or say goodbye after this season.


Oh i agree,,,,, it seemed to me his production was declining. And while he was one of my fav players, he wasnt part of the texans youthful team we are building.

infantrycak
04-08-2005, 08:44 AM
Ray Lewis signed a seven-year, $50-million contract with a $19-million bonus, how does that fall in line with Sharpers?

I was talking about their compensation for the 2005 season under each of their contracts--but you knew that when you asked the question.

And yet we give the huge salaries to Walker (coming straight off and injury) Glenn (2 years older than Sharper) but shun Sharper for playing in almost every game and being a staple for the defense. And speaking of his decline last year, why is he getting no slack for his knee injury?

And Walker's contract may prove to be an incredibly bad decision if he doesn't up his play--does having made one potentially bad decision mean they are committed to pay anything any vet wants?--of course not. As for the injury, it was my understanding it was very minor and my impression prior to the injury that his play had fallen off. Don't get me wrong on fallen off comments--doesn't mean I think he sucked, is over the hill, won't be productive, etc. But it does need to be taken into consideration in contract negotiations, just like a pro-bowl year would have been to his benefit.

My thinking is that the Texans are planning for something big, no way you "upgrade" your defense by signing Greenwood and Moreno.....stay tuned.

That was my first reaction as well. Thing is the only high dollar guys out there right now are Alexander and Edgerrin James and moving on either of those guys would surprise me and John Abraham who has some injury/attitude issues that also concern me.

El Tejano
04-08-2005, 09:01 AM
I am sure the next MLB will come in a do what Jamie Sharper did for us before. Lead the team in tackles. To be quite honest, Jamie Sharper was never the MLB that the opponent had to game plan for. Right now without him, we still really don't have that guy. Dunta is about as close to one as any of the players we have on defense and jury is still out to see how he does in his sophmore season.

I agree Jamie Sharper was a good player, I agree to some extent he will be missed teamwise and fanwise. However, I do feel his production can and will be replaced. It has to. We don't have a choice now.

nunusguy
04-08-2005, 09:10 AM
The Seahawks are putting a big move on Sharper according to this article out of the local Seattle News Paper.
"The recruiting menu was upgraded to champagne and caviar yesterday, when president of football operations Tim Ruskell and linebackers coach John Marshall piled into a limousine at 5 p.m. for a dinner rendezvous with free-agent linebacker Jamie Sharper."
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/219353_hawk08.html

SESupergenius
04-08-2005, 11:10 AM
I was talking about their compensation for the 2005 season under each of their contracts--but you knew that when you asked the question.no reason to just compare 1 season when contracts are tiered, you can't compare someones contract in a specific year when contracts are so backloaded. If you want to compare apples to apples then compare Sharpers last year of his contract to Lewis' last year figure of his contract. Good Luck.


And Walker's contract may prove to be an incredibly bad decision if he doesn't up his play--does having made one potentially bad decision mean they are committed to pay anything any vet wants?--of course not. As for the injury, it was my understanding it was very minor and my impression prior to the injury that his play had fallen off. Don't get me wrong on fallen off comments--doesn't mean I think he sucked, is over the hill, won't be productive, etc. But it does need to be taken into consideration in contract negotiations, just like a pro-bowl year would have been to his benefit.That's only a theory in your part because Walker could equally be worth the contract this coming year. He's going to be healthy for the first time in a long time going into camp so other than having a down year last year you can only speculate, but I believe he will do better. I'm curious, when do you think Sharper's play actually started to "fall off"? What point was the decline?



That was my first reaction as well. Thing is the only high dollar guys out there right now are Alexander and Edgerrin James and moving on either of those guys would surprise me and John Abraham who has some injury/attitude issues that also concern me.Not to sure if the signing has to be a high dollar FA. I don't know where they are going with this, but they sure are making it seem that they are clearing for something. Foreman and Sharper cleared some good space. I'd hate for them not to use it.
June 1 cuts or Draft Day always create intrigue.

michaelm
04-08-2005, 11:30 AM
well i dont see how the front office is not to blame, they didnt wanna pay him the money he deserved to get...

deserve really has nothing to do with it... performance < contract value...
he wasn't playing up to the level of his pay... nothing personal to Jamie...
if he had a small contract and performed at a level higher than his pay, he'd be asking to renegotiate in a second. He probably believes his value is higher that it actually is right now. He will most likely end up signing for less than he would have made under the last year of his Texans contract IMO, but again with a multi year, backloaded contract.

infantrycak
04-08-2005, 11:41 AM
We should have an over/under contest on this issue: When Sharper signs will it be for over or under the contract of Kendrell Bell? Tie-breaker--closest prediction on the actual contract signing bonus, total value and length.

TexansTrueFan
04-08-2005, 12:54 PM
deserve really has nothing to do with it... performance < contract value...
he wasn't playing up to the level of his pay... nothing personal to Jamie...
if he had a small contract and performed at a level higher than his pay, he'd be asking to renegotiate in a second. He probably believes his value is higher that it actually is right now. He will most likely end up signing for less than he would have made under the last year of his Texans contract IMO, but again with a multi year, backloaded contract.


exactly why do you think nobody wanted a trade for him, and teams just waited till we released him, which we said we were gonna do.

thegr8fan
04-10-2005, 12:35 AM
the timing on this thing is real wierd, IMHO. So you gotta keep coming back to the same question, why now and not later? Looking at it from a 'glass half full' perspective, could it be that Casserly and Capers cut Sharper BEFORE the draft and during the FA period as a sign of respect to Sharper. This allows him to get into the FA market at the prime time and if another team does sign him, which we all pretty much agree is GOING to happen, then it gives the new team a chance to re-evaluate an upcoming draft pick to fill a LB position need.

I can't think of any other reason for the timing. We all knew Sharper was going to be cut or his contract re-negotiated, perhaps they had a meeting with Sharper and told him they were cutting him this early to allow him to get picked up by another team and be in a prime negotiation position for his next contract.

Just a thought and if it is anywhere near the truth I think it shows some true class, a 'no hard feelings', AND a 'how can I help you for your hard work for us' attitude for Sharper by the Texans organization. :thumbup

Bobo
04-10-2005, 12:59 AM
>It's not an April Fool's joke.

>Read it and weep.

The Texans will never say it, but they will regret this mistake.

Bobo
04-10-2005, 01:04 AM
>well our D was #1 in the league of giving up 3rd downs. On the 3-4, that has to fall >on the LB's shoulders.

That failure is a total defensive team breakdown. It is impossible to lay the blame on one group of guys. I don't see how you can blame a guy who led the team in tackles -- which is significant in that it shows a cornerback or safety didn't have that distinction. If so, it would show that the opposition was penetrating into the last line of defense. Sharper prevented that.

Bobo
04-10-2005, 01:09 AM
>he wasn't playing up to the level of his pay... nothing personal to Jamie...

:shocked I disagree. Sharper made 98 solo tackles and is now the biggest free agent draft catch out there. That guy from the Dolphins that they signed got a big contract as well and he'll have to go aways to reach Sharper's performance level. Yes, Sharper was getting a lot of money but he deserved it. Defensive performers who produced like Sharper don't grow on trees. The Texans will regret this move. :thumbdown

Grid
04-10-2005, 02:39 AM
Maybe he agreed not to sign with the Jags if we released him early :)

TEXANS84
04-10-2005, 04:15 AM
Bengals | Still in Race to Land Sharper - from www.KFFL.com
Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:51:04 -0700

Geoff Hobson, of Bengals.com, reports free agent LB Jamie Sharper's (Texans) agent, Tony Agnone, said the Cincinnati Bengals are still in the derby to sign Sharper. He said Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis gave an impressive presentation to Sharper during his recent visit with the team.

SESupergenius
04-10-2005, 11:50 AM
Just a thought and if it is anywhere near the truth I think it shows some true class, a 'no hard feelings', AND a 'how can I help you for your hard work for us' attitude for Sharper by the Texans organization. :thumbupI disagree with that take because this is a business. One the one hand we let him go AND THEN we are nice to him???
:confused:
We still had plenty of time to at least get something for him. I think that is just poor management of the situation and would have rather him tried to either work out something with another team for a longer period than a couple of weeks or at least try to work with Sharper to sign another deal. But like I said, I think he was just put in the doghouse and let go because of that, not the salary.

OzzO
04-11-2005, 11:54 AM
Interesting it's coming from Seattle....
NFL | Sharper Decision Coming Soon? - from www.KFFL.com
Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:20:59 -0700

Updating ongoing reports, Clare Farnsworth, of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, reports free agent LB Jamie Sharper (Texans) may choose his new team as early as Monday, April 11.

It'll be more interesting what the contract ends up being.

Vinny
04-11-2005, 12:18 PM
He is going to take less than he wanted I bet. If teams were hot on him at his price he would have been singned by now most likely since there are so many teams looking at him.

TEXANS84
04-11-2005, 02:14 PM
-- Sharper Mulling Options --
Mon Apr 11, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reports the Seahawks could know as early as today whether veteran LB Jamie Sharper will be joining them for the 2005 season. Tony Agnone, Sharper's agent, said over the weekend he would like to have a deal done by today. Of course, that could change if none of the offers he has received are to his liking. Sharper visited the Seahawks last week after first meeting with the Cincinnati Bengals. The Jacksonville Jaguars and Cleveland Browns also have expressed interest in Sharper, who was released April 1 by the Houston Texans. If Sharper's choice is not the Seahawks, it's not for a lack of trying. The club didn't miss a recruiting trick during his visit. After being taken to dinner in a limousine Thursday night, Sharper toured Qwest Field on Friday morning. As he entered the stadium, his image was projected on the scoreboard screen, and he was greeted with piped-in crowd noise -- including chants of "Ja-mie, Ja-mie, Ja-mie." Agnone has not ruled out any of the teams that have shown interest. But the Bengals' initial contract offer was said to be less than Sharper was anticipating, and the word out of Cleveland is that the Browns no longer consider themselves in the picture.

edo783
04-11-2005, 02:20 PM
Based on the Bengals and Browns comments, looks like Ja-mie may be pricing himself out of the market. Sounds like Seattle is making a strong run though. I hope he finds a good home, other than the Jags.

D-ReK
04-11-2005, 02:26 PM
I can't see why he would go to the Seahawks since they are only about 1M under the cap according to one of their fans, not sure how accurate that is...If it were all about money, though, he'd be an Jacksonville by now...

Vinny
04-11-2005, 02:29 PM
They may have to release another Vet to sign him.

D-ReK
04-11-2005, 03:29 PM
Who would they release to free up space, Chad Brown?

JustBonee
04-11-2005, 05:15 PM
As he entered the stadium, his image was projected on the scoreboard screen, and he was greeted with piped-in crowd noise -- including chants of "Ja-mie, Ja-mie, Ja-mie." ..
:confused: .. something taken from a Texans game??

TEXANS84
04-12-2005, 02:37 PM
-- Sharper Still Mulling Options --
Tue Apr 12, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Cincinnati Bengals official website reports after soaking in last week’s trips to Cincinnati and Seattle, free-agent LB Jamie Sharper was expected to meet with agent Tony Agnone Monday night to see what the next step is in his quest to find a team after his April 1 release from Houston. That could mean Cincinnati and it could mean soon, but the story looks to still be developing. “We’d like to make some sort of decision as soon as possible,” Agnone said from Maryland, “be it tonight, tomorrow, after whenever Jamie and I talk, and we’ll see where it goes.” Agnone had hoped to make a decision by Monday, but the longer it goes, it would appear, the greater the chance the Bengals have at landing the eight-year linebacker. It’s believed Seattle has offered more money than the Bengals, but Sharper is also drawn to Cincinnati because of HC Marvin Lewis and, some media sources suggest, the proximity of the city to his Florida home. Agnone wouldn’t talk specifics, but said Sharper is trying to make a decision after his visits and talking to his family. “I don’t think this has ever been about money,” Agnone said.

wags
04-12-2005, 05:17 PM
Sharper signed with the Seahawks

The Seahawks beat out the Bengals and Jaguars to reach a five-year, $17.5 million agreement to sign former Texans linebacker Jamie Sharper, considered one of the best players still available.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2035781

texan279
04-12-2005, 05:23 PM
Five years??? :shocked

D-ReK
04-12-2005, 05:23 PM
Good signing for them...Maybe he'll be more of a difference maker there than he was here...

JustBonee
04-12-2005, 05:28 PM
Thanks for the info Wags.

A lot of happy Seattle fans: http://mb25.scout.com/fseahawksinsiderfrm1.showMessage?topicID=11429.top ic

infantrycak
04-12-2005, 05:47 PM
JMO, but I would bet Sharper thought his market value was much closer to Hartwell/Bell. Notice, while the deal is four 5 years, the signing bonus is only $1.5 mil which means he can be cut at any time without much dead space. Supposedly Cincy offered even less money than Seatle. Love to know if the Texans offered more (hard to imagine they didn't offer at least a Coleman type deal) but Sharper's pride wouldn't let him come back.

rittenhouserobz
04-13-2005, 05:34 AM
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. 17 mil 5 years. that is right around 3.3 million. Half of the 6 million we would have had to pay him. I bet the Texans were definitely in the ballpark. Too bad it went down like this.

aj.
04-13-2005, 06:45 AM
Assuming the $1.5 is part of the $17 that's being reported (that's how it's often reported, i.e., "including" vs, "in addition to"), he is scheduled to receive $15.5 base salary over 5 years. His bases aren't posted yet on NFLPA but with the usual backloading, he won't see half of that. As far as the $1.5 signing bonus, all I can say is Jamie found out what the rest of the league really thought of him - and what he was really worth. I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans offered more up-front on a re-do - maybe something in the $3 range on a three year which I'm sure he would have taken as an insult

edo783
04-13-2005, 08:28 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the Texans offered more up-front on a re-do - maybe something in the $3 range on a three year which I'm sure he would have taken as an insult

Very likely true and he may have climbed out on a limb that he didn't feel he could come back off of after he felt he was insulted. The term "Shooting yourself in the foot" may come into play here.

The Preacher
04-13-2005, 08:33 AM
I hope he has a better year than Eddie George whose ego landed him in a world of painful reality-the Dallas bench.

El Tejano
04-13-2005, 09:41 AM
I am just glad he didn't sign with the Jags.

SESupergenius
04-13-2005, 06:19 PM
JMO, but I would bet Sharper thought his market value was much closer to Hartwell/Bell. Notice, while the deal is four 5 years, the signing bonus is only $1.5 mil which means he can be cut at any time without much dead space. Supposedly Cincy offered even less money than Seatle. Love to know if the Texans offered more (hard to imagine they didn't offer at least a Coleman type deal) but Sharper's pride wouldn't let him come back.
I doubt Sharper was actually thinking his market value was significantly higher than Hartwell or Bell. And I doubt even more that the Texans offered him more money than he got. That is rediculous, the only logical reason he left was because he was not welcomed back, either for being in the doghouse with Capers or the Texans have a card in the whole that they are not displaying. The was let go and signed within 2 weeks, that shows me there was some considerable interest. Other bigger named players are still mulling around looking for a deal. Pride really has nothing to do with it, emotions were.

FILO_girl
04-13-2005, 06:30 PM
I doubt Sharper was actually thinking his market value was significantly higher than Hartwell or Bell. And I doubt even more that the Texans offered him more money than he got. That is rediculous, the only logical reason he left was because he was not welcomed back, either for being in the doghouse with Capers or the Texans have a card in the whole that they are not displaying. The was let go and signed within 2 weeks, that shows me there was some considerable interest. Other bigger named players are still mulling around looking for a deal. Pride really has nothing to do with it, emotions were.

Pretty much my philosophy too. :thumbup

infantrycak
04-13-2005, 09:01 PM
I doubt Sharper was actually thinking his market value was significantly higher than Hartwell or Bell. And I doubt even more that the Texans offered him more money than he got. That is rediculous, the only logical reason he left was because he was not welcomed back, either for being in the doghouse with Capers or the Texans have a card in the whole that they are not displaying. The was let go and signed within 2 weeks, that shows me there was some considerable interest. Other bigger named players are still mulling around looking for a deal. Pride really has nothing to do with it, emotions were.

Ses, normally I like your takes, especially on LB's, but look at your 1st sentence above and my statement. Mine, "closer to", yours "significantly higher"--not even close. We will never know about the offers but whether it is "rediculous" or not, I would bet money far quicker on this than in the stock market that (a) the Texans offered a signing bonus in excess of what Seattle did (come on that was a ridiculously low signing bonus "within 2 weeks" and was the higher offer he got by reports compared to Cincy) and (b) the term was shorter. Seriously, you think the Texans offered less than $1.5 mil to Sharper after giving Coleman $5 mil?

PS--(a) who are the bigger name FA players available? and (b) what is pride if not an emotion, or sin?

SESupergenius
04-14-2005, 12:46 AM
Like I say if the Texans offered Sharper a better deal he probably would have taken it, but he was put in the doghouse, forced to seek a trade and inevitably let go. Texas got nothing in return, that right there says to me that he was let go for reason other than a salary move. There was no reason to cut Sharper when Foreman was let go. Both Hartwell and Bell got decent deals and were not overpaid their worth, unlike Greenwood. There is no way Greenwood is better than Sharper, yet we bring him over and pay him more??? And yes I do think the Texans offered Sharper less even considering what Coleman got, because Coleman was not in the doghouse....although he tried with his off the field antics, he still was not any kind of trouble on it. Sharper had one of his best seasons before last and now he's not worth it? That just doesn't fly. If that were the case then Walker, Glenn, and all the oldies on this team should have been let go.

pat
04-14-2005, 02:29 PM
I agree with SESupergenius.

Vinny
04-14-2005, 03:11 PM
I follow this team pretty closely....what 'doghouse' are you speaking of? I want to see this Sharper doghouse. Where were the coaches calling him out? Where did they sit him in a game? Other than an imaginary doghouse, I'd like to know what the clues are that the Texans were punishing him or he was out of favor due to some spat. A 1.5 Mil signing bonus over 5 years is ZERO risk for the Seahawks and not what top tier FA's get. That is a pretty good gauge of what the NFL thought of Sharper after the 2004 game film review.

D-ReK
04-14-2005, 03:38 PM
Both Hartwell and Bell got decent deals and were not overpaid their worth, unlike Greenwood. There is no way Greenwood is better than Sharper, yet we bring him over and pay him more??? And yes I do think the Texans offered Sharper less even considering what Coleman got, because Coleman was not in the doghouse....although he tried with his off the field antics, he still was not any kind of trouble on it. Sharper had one of his best seasons before last and now he's not worth it? That just doesn't fly. If that were the case then Walker, Glenn, and all the oldies on this team should have been let go.

Hartwell got a 6 year contract worth $26.25M and an $8M signing bonus, I heard all the money was guaranteed though...Bell got 7 years, over $35M, and a $10M signing bonus despite not even passing his physical when he initially signed with the Giants...Both were overpaid...Greenwood may have been overpaid too, but we won't know until we see how he fits in the system...Your "doghouse" argument is extremely flawed...If any one of our players has ever been in the "doghouse", it would be Coleman who was benched due to his DWI charge...Sure Sharper had a decent season in 2003, but so did Foreman...I don't get what makes Foreman so expendable, but people get emotional when Sharper gets cut...Their numbers were relatively equal on 2002 and 2003 and would've been similar in 2004 if Foreman didn't get injured...At least Walker and Glenn have made the Pro Bowl before, which is something Sharper will never taste, sorry to burst your bubble...

D-ReK
04-14-2005, 05:02 PM
There is no way Greenwood is better than Sharper, yet we bring him over and pay him more???

According to an unbiased third party source (Pro Football Weekly (http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Features/Free+Agency/2005/top100.htm)), Greenwood is the 48th ranked free agent from this offseason and Jamie Sharper is ranked 59th...Looks like somebody out there not named Charley Casserly or Dom Capers thinks Greenwood is a better player than Sharper...

texan279
04-14-2005, 05:05 PM
There is no way Greenwood is better than Sharper, yet we bring him over and pay him more???

We didn't pay Greenwood more, Sharper made $6.2 mil last season and was scheduled to make another $6.2 mil this season, the highest Greenwood will be paid for one season will be right at $5 mil in his last contract season which is 2009, so in his last year of his contract he will still make about $1 mil less than Sharper would have made this season...

SESupergenius
04-14-2005, 05:17 PM
I follow this team pretty closely....what 'doghouse' are you speaking of? I want to see this Sharper doghouse. Where were the coaches calling him out? Oh come on now you know what I am talking about, don't play dumb. Here's a clue:

Veteran linebacker Jamie Sharper said the team is headed in the right direction. He added the Texans just needed somebody to lead them there.

"I was done with losing that first season," Sharper said. "No more positives. You have to produce. Somebody has to produce. Somebody has to show us the way. There's a light at the end of the tunnel, but who's going to direct us there? We need somebody to direct us to wins instead of close games."





Where did they sit him in a game?Umm, tough to sit him if it's the last game, and one of the worst defeats of the season.

Other than an imaginary doghouse, I'd like to know what the clues are that the Texans were punishing him or he was out of favor due to some spat.Gee I don't know, maybe asking for a trade has something to do with it. Punishing him by offering him an unacceptable deal and ultimately releasing him. I doubt the Texans or Sharper for that matter were going into a media war over the situation and as it stands now there really isn't much coming out of either camp.

A 1.5 Mil signing bonus over 5 years is ZERO risk for the Seahawks and not what top tier FA's get. That is a pretty good gauge of what the NFL thought of Sharper after the 2004 game film review.I never considered Sharper a top tier FA, so I don't know where you got that from. Fact is, once Sharper was release he became one of the hotest free agents at that point. If Sharper was all washed up and had no value then he would still be looking for a job.
At what point did Sharper become all washed up in the Texans' eyes because it sure didn't seem that way throughout most of the season.

SESupergenius
04-14-2005, 05:23 PM
We didn't pay Greenwood more, Sharper made $6.2 mil last season and was scheduled to make another $6.2 mil this season, the highest Greenwood will be paid for one season will be right at $5 mil in his last contract season which is 2009, so in his last year of his contract he will still make about $1 mil less than Sharper would have made this season...Well let's see....let's get our little calculators out.

Sharper signed a 5 year deal for $17.5, 1.5 guaranteed.
Greenwood signed a 5 year deal for $22.5, 7 guaranteed

22.5 - 17.5 = 5

Greenwood gets paid $5 million more according to his contract, and $5.5 more guaranteed.

Pretty simple class.

aj.
04-14-2005, 05:24 PM
A pretty good indicator of Sharper's true value is the fact that he could only squeeze out a $1.5 million signing bonus out of someone after talking to three teams.

Charley said today at the HBJ luncheon that Sharper was not likely to be retained anyway after his contract expired at the end of this season, so - combined with Greenwood's availability (at a price less than Foreman was scheduled to make this year and for the next four years less than what Sharper was making in 03 and 04) they decided to cut the losses a year early instead of letting him play out his contract and then dealing with a hole at the position next year. The locker room stuff could very well be real and could have made the decision to cut him loose easier.

texan279
04-14-2005, 05:29 PM
Well let's see....let's get our little calculators out.

Sharper signed a 5 year deal for $17.5, 1.5 guaranteed.
Greenwood signed a 5 year deal for $22.5, 7 guaranteed

22.5 - 17.5 = 5

Greenwood gets paid $5 million more according to his contract, and $5.5 more guaranteed.

Pretty simple class.

Do you honestly think Sharper would have stayed here for a 5 year $17.5 million deal? I think not. Not only that, but in 5 years Greenwood will be 31 years old, which is how old Jamie Sharper is now...And do you honestly think Sharper will produce the way he has in the past for the next 5 years? And don't forget, we would have had to pay Sharper $6.2 mil this season, Greenwood will make $550,000 this season, and SHARPER is the one who would not renegotiate his contract.

Vinny
04-14-2005, 05:31 PM
Those aren't clues he was in a doghouse. Those are quotes where he is speaking out. The doghouse theory is unproven and only in the imagination of those who want to see it. This so called dog house grudge could be real....but, I'd need some proof of it. aj sums this up well.

SESupergenius
04-14-2005, 05:40 PM
Hartwell got a 6 year contract worth $26.25M and an $8M signing bonus, I heard all the money was guaranteed though...
The only money guaranteed is the $8m....welcome to the NFL.
Bell got 7 years, over $35M, and a $10M signing bonus despite not even passing his physical when he initially signed with the Giants...Both were overpaid.Ya, I guess the Giants don't know what they are doing and the Texans have the master plan. Bell is a superstar on defense, You barely heard of Greenwood a month ago..[/QUOTE]

Your "doghouse" argument is extremely flawed...If any one of our players has ever been in the "doghouse", it would be Coleman who was benched due to his DWI charge.It's not flawed at all, Coleman never did anything to shake up coaching staff by questioning their leadership. Apples and oranges.


...Sure Sharper had a decent season in 2003, but so did Foreman...I don't get what makes Foreman so expendable, but people get emotional when Sharper gets cut...Their numbers were relatively equal on 2002 and 2003 and would've been similar in 2004 if Foreman didn't get injured...At least Walker and Glenn have made the Pro Bowl before, which is something Sharper will never taste, sorry to burst your bubble...What's interesting is how you are now flip flopping according to your statement on these boards about month ago when we signed Greenwood:

03-03-2005
...I think Greenwood will be a decent ILB, definitely better than Foreman, but nowhere near Sharper's level...
:listening

...no where near Sharper's level. Well I wouldn't say nowhere near his level like you did, but Sharper is better.

aj.
04-14-2005, 05:57 PM
Hartwell has additional base salary guarantees in his contract so his guaranteed money goes beyond the 8 mil signing bonus. It appears his guaranteed money will be 13.25 million over the first three years of his six year deal according to Lenny P (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2018331)

Guaranteed contracts (portions greater than the signing bonus - not the entire amount) have become more and more common in the NFL the last few years.

D-ReK
04-14-2005, 06:02 PM
The only money guaranteed is the $8m....welcome to the NFL.

From an ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2018331) article:

Hartwell's six-year contract totals $26.25 million and includes an $8 million signing bonus. There are additional base salary guarantees in the first three seasons of the contract. The deal will pay Hartwell $10 million in its first two years and $13.25 million over the first three seasons.

So Hartwell got $13.25M in guaranteed money, not sure if the signing bonus was factored into that...
Ya, I guess the Giants don't know what they are doing and the Texans have the master plan. Bell is a superstar on defense, You barely heard of Greenwood a month ago..

I was merely pointing out that Bell signed with KC after failing his physical administered by the Giants...Pittsburgh would've kept him if they thought he was worth keeping...Bell got an outrageous contract from a team who desperately needs defense...

It's not flawed at all, Coleman never did anything to shake up coaching staff by questioning their leadership. Apples and oranges.

Nobody really knows who Sharper was questioning with his comments...He could've just as easily been criticizing Carr...

What's interesting is how you are now flip flopping according to your statement on these boards about month ago when we signed Greenwood:

03-03-2005
...I think Greenwood will be a decent ILB, definitely better than Foreman, but nowhere near Sharper's level...
:listening

...no where near Sharper's level. Well I wouldn't say nowhere near his level like you did, but Sharper is better.

It was foolish of me to pass judgement on a player I have yet to see in his new role...He may be a terrible ILB, or he may become a perennial Pro Bowler...Neither is really likely, but nobody knows how well he will perform as an ILB here...

aj.
04-14-2005, 07:46 PM
So Hartwell got $13.25M in guaranteed money, not sure if the signing bonus was factored into that...

Hartwell's bases for his first three years are:

2005 $540,000
2006 $2,214,000
2007 $2,878,200

That adds up to around $5.6 million so adding the $8 million puts you right in the ballpark for what Lenny is reporting as guaranteed. In other words, most of his base salary for the first three years of his contract is guaranteed, in addition to his 8 mill signing bonus.

SESupergenius
04-15-2005, 09:56 AM
I was merely pointing out that Bell signed with KC after failing his physical administered by the Giants...Pittsburgh would've kept him if they thought he was worth keeping...Bell got an outrageous contract from a team who desperately needs defense...I would have had no problem with us signing Bell for that amount of money, I think he is still very good, he's a playmaker and an impact player. Pittsburgh has always let go of players in their prime, so releasing Bell was not that much of a surprise to me. They also found out last year that they have a very good player to replace him. If you want to see an outrageous contract stayed tuned with the Terrell Owens saga.



Nobody really knows who Sharper was questioning with his comments...He could've just as easily been criticizing Carr...It could have been anyone, yes you are right. But the fact remains that he didn't like what he was seeing and talked about it, that is a major no-no with Capers. Do some research and you will find the same scenario throughout his coaching career. I'm not saying it's all bad because you do need to weed out players that you are losing control over. It's a double edged sword however.



It was foolish of me to pass judgement on a player I have yet to see in his new role...He may be a terrible ILB, or he may become a perennial Pro Bowler...Neither is really likely, but nobody knows how well he will perform as an ILB here...I hope that he IS a good player, and please, please, please, please, let me be wrong. I want the Texans to be good and criticizing them, particularly the defense is just my expression of "tough love". I thought initially that Greenwood would replace Foreman and we would somehow keep Sharper and restructure his contract. Then we release him without any compensation what so ever and several teams are interested in him. They were shouting "Hey everybody, We don't like Sharper any more and want to get rid of him, any takers?". Knowing that, if I were a GM I would trade for him either because there was a very good chance they were going to cut him and I can shoot for him in FA.

JustBonee
04-15-2005, 10:15 AM
Aside from all the money talk, Jamie Sharper "the man" .. "the personality" will be sadly missed on game day. I believe whole-heartedly that stubbornness on both sides made this come to where we are today. I don't believe he really wanted to go .. I don't think Texans management wanted him gone.

But, we're here now, so Greenwood better be a spectacular talent.

wiley2002
04-15-2005, 10:18 AM
We not only lost Sharper but Foreman as well. Where does this drama end????

texansfan88
04-15-2005, 10:23 AM
We not only lost Sharper but Foreman as well. Where does this drama end????
September 11th, 2005

SESupergenius
04-15-2005, 10:29 AM
Hartwell's bases for his first three years are:

2005 $540,000
2006 $2,214,000
2007 $2,878,200

That adds up to around $5.6 million so adding the $8 million puts you right in the ballpark for what Lenny is reporting as guaranteed. In other words, most of his base salary for the first three years of his contract is guaranteed, in addition to his 8 mill signing bonus.

That's roughly $4.5 million a year, guaranteed. I still think that considering his age and upside, that is a good contract but not overpaid. Same with Bell, who will be averaging $5.3 over 3 years guanteed. I look at it like its a good value for playmakers (which we are lacking on defense) and who have good upside. We are going to have to pay for playmakers, like we were trying to do with PAce. With this clearing of cap space I feel that we are trying to do something signicant. Maybe trade up and take another high salaried player.

wiley2002
04-15-2005, 10:33 AM
September 11th, 2005
I meant the whole LB situation. ...So that's when the season starts. Thanks texansfan88.

texansfan88
04-15-2005, 11:31 AM
I meant the whole LB situation. ...So that's when the season starts. Thanks texansfan88.
I'll still stick to that date with the LB situation

texan279
04-21-2005, 07:02 PM
Seahawks | Sharper Officially Signed - from www.KFFL.com
Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:06:51 -0700

Updating previous reports, the Seattle Seahawks have officially signed free agent LB Jamie Sharper (Texans) to a multi-year deal.