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View Full Version : Video of my least favorite Texan: meet Mario Williams


dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 04:29 PM
Alright. So, I have jumped of the Kubiak bandwagon and am ready for some new coaching. But, that being said, some of the players clearly deserve blame for their performance this season (particularly on defense). Other than Antonio Smith, it is difficult to praise any member of the defense. But, I certainly found where to focus my hostility. Meet #90, Mario Williams, 285 lbs. of sculpted sh*t!!

Texans Bull Blog: Mario doesn't Give a Damn! (http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/)

spurstexanstros
11-09-2010, 04:46 PM
We met mario at the training camp signing session and Mario seemed to be bothered by us..by us I mean my then 5 yr old son. Best Texans that day Sean Cody and Travis Johnson..from then my opinion of Mario..meh

rmartin65
11-09-2010, 04:47 PM
Man, you are going to catch shit for this.

But you are right. Mario has the physical skills to be as good as he wants to be. He is possibly the most athletic player in the NFL. However, he does not care. The handful of plays a game he does care, is breathtaking.

Mario is an above average DE, who most teams probably want. My problem with him is that he could be the best DE in the NFL, but does not seem to want it.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 04:51 PM
Man, you are going to catch shit for this.

But you are right. Mario has the physical skills to be as good as he wants to be. He is possibly the most athletic player in the NFL. However, he does not care. The handful of plays a game he does care, is breathtaking.

Mario is an above average DE, who most teams probably want. My problem with him is that he could be the best DE in the NFL, but does not seem to want it.

I agree... I'll say this, also, if we had another Antonio Smith on the D-line instead of Mario Williams, we'd be better against the run and QBs would have less time to throw the ball.

Kaiser Toro
11-09-2010, 04:53 PM
Please tell me there is an agenda, otherwise this is a bad post based on the video presented IMO.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 05:05 PM
Please tell me there is an agenda, otherwise this is a bad post based on the video presented IMO.

No agenda... other than the fact that it is usually effort that makes a defense good. And, Mario gives minimum effort on way too many plays. I would be shocked if most people can't see that on the video we're presenting, particularly when watching Antonio Smith in the same frame work 3X as hard.

HOU-TEX
11-09-2010, 05:08 PM
:rolleyes: Good ole Murphster. Hypes up players who don't make it in the NFL and rips players that are actually pretty good.

Who's your favorite Texans player? My guess would be Tim Jamison?

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 05:11 PM
:rolleyes: Good ole Murphster. Hypes up players who don't make it in the NFL and rips players that are actually pretty good.

Who's your favorite Texans player? My guess would be Tim Jamison?

LOVE Tim Jamison!!

Seriously, though, my favorite defensive player is clearly Antonio Smith. How could it not be?

By the way, I'm not saying that Mario is a poor DE, I'm saying he is giving poor effort.

TexCanada
11-09-2010, 05:15 PM
In all those plays on that video, Mario is going all out. I think Mario just disappears at times because of his lack of moves, not his lack of effort.

JB
11-09-2010, 05:16 PM
LOVE Tim Jamison!!

Seriously, though, my favorite defensive player is clearly Antonio Smith. How could it not be?

By the way, I'm not saying that Mario is a poor DE, I'm saying he is giving poor effort.

Serious question... how can you tell he is giving poor effort? Is it because he doesn't beat his man every play? Shouldn't that pro on the other side of the line get some credit for doing his job occassionally? He is also getting paid millions to be one of the best in the world.

Not saying you are wrong, but I don't understand how you can see inside his head and his heart.

HOU-TEX
11-09-2010, 05:18 PM
LOVE Tim Jamison!!

Seriously, though, my favorite defensive player is clearly Antonio Smith. How could it not be?

By the way, I'm not saying that Mario is a poor DE, I'm saying he is giving poor effort.

I've stated my concerns on Mario in the past and definitely think he can get better. However, your thread title states he's your "least favorite Texan". I can't figure how anyone could come to that conclusion given how many players there are to choose from. Okoye? Pollard? Wilson? KJ? etc.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 05:24 PM
I've stated my concerns on Mario in the past and definitely think he can get better. However, your thread title states he's your "least favorite Texan". I can't figure how anyone could come to that conclusion given how many players there are to choose from. Okoye? Pollard? Wilson? KJ? etc.

It is intentionally a little reactionary. Because, I'm feeling quite reactionary after these past two devastating losses... But, to your question:

Okoye- just isn't that good. I think he's been significantly better this season than the past two. But, I'm not much of a fan. If you recall, I was screaming about starting Deljuan over him last year.
Pollard- gives great effort, but can be a bonehead
Wilson- He's a servicable, older FS. I have very little tied into him. I'm indifferent, really. I wish he was a backup.
KJ- He's a rookie. I like the guy and hope he can turn it around. He's trying. I wish Reeves was starting or Molden had been given a shot by now. I also wish our safeties played better. That would help him.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 05:26 PM
In all those plays on that video, Mario is going all out. I think Mario just disappears at times because of his lack of moves, not his lack of effort.


I don't see it. He's hand-slapping with TEs that weigh 50 lbs less and aren't particularly good blockers for TEs. He's standing erect with his arms extended and creating very little damage to the blocker or the play, in general. It seems clear to me. Watch Smith.

JB
11-09-2010, 05:27 PM
I don't see it. He's hand-slapping with TEs that weigh 50 lbs less and aren't particularly good blockers for TEs. He's standing erect with his arms extended and creating very little damage to the blocker or the play, in general. It seems clear to me. Watch Smith.

How do you know his assignment on the play?

Dutchrudder
11-09-2010, 05:29 PM
It is intentionally a little reactionary. Because, I'm feeling quite reactionary after these past two devastating losses... But, to your question:

Okoye- just isn't that good. I think he's been significantly better this season than the past two. But, I'm not much of a fan. If you recall, I was screaming about starting Deljuan over him last year.
Pollard- gives great effort, but can be a bonehead
Wilson- He's a servicable, older FS. I have very little tied into him. I'm indifferent, really. I wish he was a backup.
KJ- He's a rookie. I like the guy and hope he can turn it around. He's trying. I wish Reeves was starting or Molden had been given a shot by now. I also wish our safeties played better. That would help him.

He turns around all the time, the problem is that he falls on his ass half the time he does it.

hot pickle
11-09-2010, 05:30 PM
even julius peppers gets dominated in some games! im gonna give my theory about this.... take his size and the size of julius peppers and the amount of effort it take to move a body that size. so these guys are gonna gas out from time to time! sometimes there bodies might not respond as well on some days... there pro athletes but they still have human bodies and sometimes the human body just doesnt function the way you want it to no matter who you are

TexCanada
11-09-2010, 05:30 PM
I don't see it. He's hand-slapping with TEs that weigh 50 lbs less and aren't particularly good blockers for TEs. He's standing erect with his arms extended and creating very little damage to the blocker or the play, in general. It seems clear to me. Watch Smith.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but I really don't see it in that video. The only times he isn't busting his ass off to get to the QB was on the run plays.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 05:34 PM
I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all, but I really don't see it in that video. The only times he isn't busting his ass off to get to the QB was on the run plays.

How do you explain the stark contrast between A.Smith and Mario in the game. Smith is getting more attention and is way more productive. Do you think he's more talented?

Not only that, but there is a tangible element to effort that one can see on the field, I think. Mario either is very, very stiff as an athlete, or he's not giving effort like Smith is. Is that your argument, that Mario is a stiff athlete? I could buy that. Maybe that's why he disappears so often.

Dutchrudder
11-09-2010, 05:34 PM
As far as Mario is concerned, I wish he would stop running around the outside of the pocket. I never see him cut to the middle of the pocket or use a spin move to get inside to pressure the QB. I see so many opportunities for him to do this, but he never does it. It's like he has no idea how to do it.

TimeKiller
11-09-2010, 05:46 PM
You mean Mario "The caged animal?" Williams?

No wait that kind of makes sense....he's an animal, no doubt. He's an animal who can do as much as an animal can do in a cage.

fiasco west
11-09-2010, 05:51 PM
Honestly I think he's hurt. His play recently reminds me of all the other times he's quietly played through injuries.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 06:20 PM
Honestly I think he's hurt. His play recently reminds me of all the other times he's quietly played through injuries.

I think he may be also. If he has groin/ and lower abdominal issues, then that would explain the arm fighting and the lack of explosion play to play.

TexCanada
11-09-2010, 06:26 PM
How do you explain the stark contrast between A.Smith and Mario in the game. Smith is getting more attention and is way more productive. Do you think he's more talented?

Not only that, but there is a tangible element to effort that one can see on the field, I think. Mario either is very, very stiff as an athlete, or he's not giving effort like Smith is. Is that your argument, that Mario is a stiff athlete? I could buy that. Maybe that's why he disappears so often.

For one thing, I think that Smith is a much more polished player. Mario still has a lot to learn and will only get better.

My initial thoughts on Mario is that he takes plays off, but actually going back and looking at video (which I haven't done nearly as much as you, so your word is stronger there) I don't really see much in the way of lack of effort from him. Smith and Mario have about the same number of tackles, while Mario has 6 sacks to Smith's 2.5. I know stats don't tell the whole story, but it is pretty tough to say that Smith is way more productive.

Dishman
11-09-2010, 06:52 PM
I think he may be also. If he has groin/ and lower abdominal issues, then that would explain the arm fighting and the lack of explosion play to play.


Wasn't he recently listed with a hip issue during practice last week? Not sure if that was the first instance this year, but he's played through foot, groin and shoulder injuries before.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 07:09 PM
Please tell me there is an agenda, otherwise this is a bad post based on the video presented IMO.

Exactly.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 07:10 PM
This was the first comment on the blog and I agree with it:

Hey John, I agree with you that Smith has been impressive. And usually, I agree with you on your posts, but based on video, I canít agree, at least completely, with you on Mario.

Looking at the video you posted, I DID see some positives in his play. In those clips there were several where he caused pressure, forcing Rivers to step up or side step.

As far as the run plays, many of them looked like it was his job to seal the edge and protect against a cut-back, what is your opinion on that? I thought he was patient on the edge and seemed to be in good position to make a tackle had the RB cut-back.

Finally, in your last clip, Mario did indeed face a double-team, so I donít know why that was included, there wasnít much he could have done.

I think Antonio is doing a great job though, and I do indeed agree that Mario needs to pick up the pace and start playing like the dominant presence he could potentially be.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 07:12 PM
And really, what's your point? Let's be mad at him? That's helpful. What else? Do you suggest replacing him? With who? Who could we replace him with that will help our defense?

This thread comes across as nothing but venting and wanting to take out your frustration on something. There is no helpful insight here. We know that Mario doesn't have a high motor. But he is still a very good DE and there is almost no way we could replace him with someone better without giving up an insane amount of players/picks.

So I ask again, what is the point of this? Let's all be angry at Mario Williams..... even though there is absolutely nothing that could plausibly be done about our DE situation, and it remains one of the very few positions that we aren't truly hurting at??? Great.

stingray
11-09-2010, 07:32 PM
Lol at this thread. The Texans have 12 sacks this season and he has half of them. He's on pace to get 12 sacks this year. Nobody else puts pressure on the qb except him and he's the bad guy.

Nawzer
11-09-2010, 07:39 PM
I also think his little boo boo is actually bothering him quite a bit.

Hagar
11-09-2010, 07:44 PM
Mario should be a dominant DE, but he isn't and, given his lack of effort, never will be.

noxiousdog
11-09-2010, 07:46 PM
Lol at this thread. The Texans have 12 sacks this season and he has half of them. He's on pace to get 12 sacks this year. Nobody else puts pressure on the qb except him and he's the bad guy.

Houston fans have always loved them some scapegoats.

I think he's hurt again.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 08:00 PM
And really, what's your point? Let's be mad at him? That's helpful. What else? Do you suggest replacing him? With who? Who could we replace him with that will help our defense?

This thread comes across as nothing but venting and wanting to take out your frustration on something. There is no helpful insight here. We know that Mario doesn't have a high motor. But he is still a very good DE and there is almost no way we could replace him with someone better without giving up an insane amount of players/picks.

So I ask again, what is the point of this? Let's all be angry at Mario Williams..... even though there is absolutely nothing that could plausibly be done about our DE situation, and it remains one of the very few positions that we aren't truly hurting at??? Great.


Well, I think we are hurting at DE. And, as a frustrated fan that is reading and also participating in "Fire Coaches Threads", I thought it appropriate to point out that some of our "elite" players aren't playing anywhere near their potential. I think the video is valuable so each person can see what I'm see and arrive at his/her own opinion...

But, yeah, I'm definitely venting. I find lack of effort particularly insulting as a football fan and season ticket holder.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 08:01 PM
Lol at this thread. The Texans have 12 sacks this season and he has half of them. He's on pace to get 12 sacks this year. Nobody else puts pressure on the qb except him and he's the bad guy.

Antonio Smith puts pressure on the QB more often and has been making more big plays in the run game as well this season.

ATXtexanfan
11-09-2010, 08:02 PM
problem with mario is he isn't a gamebreaker. no sack fumbles. his sacks dont seem to change momentum. he is a talent but not a dominate player. some real DT's would help but thats another thread.

Texan_Bill
11-09-2010, 08:12 PM
As far as Mario is concerned, I wish he would stop running around the outside of the pocket. I never see him cut to the middle of the pocket or use a spin move to get inside to pressure the QB. I see so many opportunities for him to do this, but he never does it. It's like he has no idea how to do it.

I would like to see him develop some other moves too. As far as stunting to the middle, that's on Frank Bush. If Mario took it upon himself to stunt the middle against a mobile quarterback, that QB is running for a long time.

FirstTexansFan
11-09-2010, 08:29 PM
Not sure what to say here... I mean Dale has been one of the most positive posters on TT for a long time. We've demeaned him on many occasions for his blind support of Kubiak and this team. He finally says something negative, and we crap on him for that... guess he's damned if he does, damned if he don't :)

stingray
11-09-2010, 08:35 PM
Antonio Smith puts pressure on the QB more often and has been making more big plays in the run game as well this season.

Antonio puts some presure but hardly ever closes the deal. He's always a split second too late. That's why he always averages around 4 sacks a year.
And that is the problem with this whole defense, Most players are just a split second too late

Texecutioner
11-09-2010, 09:00 PM
Alright. So, I have jumped of the Kubiak bandwagon and am ready for some new coaching. But, that being said, some of the players clearly deserve blame for their performance this season (particularly on defense). Other than Antonio Smith, it is difficult to praise any member of the defense. But, I certainly found where to focus my hostility. Meet #90, Mario Williams, 285 lbs. of sculpted sh*t!!

Texans Bull Blog: Mario doesn't Give a Damn! (http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/)

Man, who stole Dale's account??? This can't be the same dude. Lol!


Man, Dale you've been on fire lately. Thank you for seeing this and hopefully others will finally notice. I keep getting told that I don't know jack about the DE position and that it's all because of the DT's and all excuses A-Z for Mario. People forget that this guy was the 1st pick of the draft and what a physical specimen this guy is. He just doesn't reach his potential the majority of the time as a guy who is supposed to be a top tier DE. He's been in the league long enough now. Enough is enough. Mario needs to be the almighty beast that he was drafted and expected to be instead of the inconsistent guy who takes plays off like the pro scouts described him as. This team needs an anchor on this defense and a guy that can really put the unit on his back and get them pumped up with consistent big plays. He just doesn't have it in him.

playa465
11-09-2010, 09:01 PM
As far as Mario is concerned, I wish he would stop running around the outside of the pocket. I never see him cut to the middle of the pocket or use a spin move to get inside to pressure the QB. I see so many opportunities for him to do this, but he never does it. It's like he has no idea how to do it.

I would like to see him develop some other moves too. As far as stunting to the middle, that's on Frank Bush. If Mario took it upon himself to stunt the middle against a mobile quarterback, that QB is running for a long time.

Antonio puts some presure but hardly ever closes the deal. He's always a split second too late. That's why he always averages around 4 sacks a year.
And that is the problem with this whole defense, Most players are just a split second too late

Sounds like lack of player development...we have individual talent on defense, but is it the ineptitude of the coaching staff that fails to get them to raise their skill set or is it a lack of self motivation by the players.

Texecutioner
11-09-2010, 09:03 PM
No agenda... other than the fact that it is usually effort that makes a defense good. And, Mario gives minimum effort on way too many plays. I would be shocked if most people can't see that on the video we're presenting, particularly when watching Antonio Smith in the same frame work 3X as hard.

That's exactly what we were warned about when we drafted him. People forget that Mario's college stats in his last season were patted off of like 3 games where he went nuts. The rest of the season he was merely an average player from what a lot of the reports said. They said that if Mario could ever get motivated consistently and have the attitude to dominate all the time we'd have one of the best DE's of all time.

Texecutioner
11-09-2010, 09:06 PM
And really, what's your point? Let's be mad at him? That's helpful. What else? Do you suggest replacing him? With who? Who could we replace him with that will help our defense?

This thread comes across as nothing but venting and wanting to take out your frustration on something. There is no helpful insight here. We know that Mario doesn't have a high motor. But he is still a very good DE and there is almost no way we could replace him with someone better without giving up an insane amount of players/picks.

So I ask again, what is the point of this? Let's all be angry at Mario Williams..... even though there is absolutely nothing that could plausibly be done about our DE situation, and it remains one of the very few positions that we aren't truly hurting at??? Great.


This is like the third Mario thread that you've flown in and pouted extremely hard in, but I've yet to see you make a solid argument for why the criticisms of Mario Williams are inaccurate, false, or unsubstantiated. How about making a strong case for why he's such a beast that you claim he is. Use some recent numbers, find some recent footage in certain games like Dale has, give us something other than just storming in here and spitting on everyone's posts where they're disappointed because our #1 draft pick and franchise DE isn't playing like an elite DE. I'd just like to see you make a real case other than saying something like "you don't know shit."

Texan_Bill
11-09-2010, 09:14 PM
This is like the third Mario thread that you've flown in and pouted extremely hard in, but I've yet to see you make a solid argument for why the criticisms of Mario Williams are inaccurate, false, or unsubstantiated. How about making a strong case for why he's such a beast that you claim he is. Use some recent numbers, find some recent footage in certain games like Dale has, give us something other than just storming in here and spitting on everyone's posts where they're disappointed because our #1 draft pick and franchise DE isn't playing like an elite DE. I'd just like to see you make a real case other than saying something like "you don't know shit."

I think people take the criticisms too far. I'm not afraid to get after Mario when he's non-existent (MNF v. the Colts) and comes across as playing with no heart. This was different. There was NO lack of effort.

That said, some people take it too far (i.e. the OP's video clips). In fact, those clips showed pressure on the QB.. Those video clips (for the most part) bode well. The second one showed Mario, taking on the RT and still keeping contain on the outside, which was nicely done. That's what D-lineman are supposed to do, occupy space, not loose contain and turn things into the middle where your LB's are supposed to make the tackle.

Texecutioner
11-09-2010, 09:32 PM
I think people take the criticisms too far. I'm not afraid to get after Mario when he's non-existent (MNF v. the Colts) and comes across as playing with no heart. This was different. There was NO lack of effort.

That said, some people take it too far (i.e. the OP's video clips). In fact, those clips showed pressure on the QB.. Those video clips (for the most part) bode well. The second one showed Mario, taking on the RT and still keeping contain on the outside, which was nicely done. That's what D-lineman are supposed to do, occupy space, not loose contain and turn things into the middle where your LB's are supposed to make the tackle.

I'll call him a good DE. He's good. He can play great "at times." I don't see the constant effort though, and if I am wrong on the lack of effort at times, then that's an even bigger problem because that would suggest that he'll just never be a consistently great player. I don't see him knocking down a lot of passes at the line of scrimmage, or getting a ton of FF's, and constant hurries that force QB's into bad throws where are DB's can capitalize a lot or to cause more 3 and outs. This secondary is not just bad because they can't cover anyone. A lot of it has to do with the lack of pressure, and whether Mario likes it or not more is expected of him than anyone else on this D line. He is paid to be an elite De and and an elite defensive player. We need this guy to play above and beyond what the norm is for him especially right now, and he's just not capable of being that consistently dominant D lineman that we've seen many other D lineman be for other teams over the years.

Maybe if we ever got the right DC to come in here that could instill a strong mental edge and grit in him we'd finally see that, but I've lost all hope that he'll ever be that guy that we have all hoped he'd become consistently. He's good and could be better with better DT's of course, but he's got to take it upon himself and want to destroy people out there. I just don't think he has that type of nasty D Lineman mentality.

TEXANRED
11-09-2010, 09:37 PM
I disagree completely. Mario is our only Dlineman who gives a damn. He's probably tired of playing on a line that the organization doesn't give a damn about and or an organization that is inept at placing talent that fits the defense.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 09:40 PM
Man, who stole Dale's account??? This can't be the same dude. Lol!


Man, Dale you've been on fire lately. Thank you for seeing this and hopefully others will finally notice. I keep getting told that I don't know jack about the DE position and that it's all because of the DT's and all excuses A-Z for Mario. People forget that this guy was the 1st pick of the draft and what a physical specimen this guy is. He just doesn't reach his potential the majority of the time as a guy who is supposed to be a top tier DE. He's been in the league long enough now. Enough is enough. Mario needs to be the almighty beast that he was drafted and expected to be instead of the inconsistent guy who takes plays off like the pro scouts described him as. This team needs an anchor on this defense and a guy that can really put the unit on his back and get them pumped up with consistent big plays. He just doesn't have it in him.


I have been re-watching the games on DVR since 2008. But, now that we've started the blog, I am paying more attention to detail than I did in the past. Also, since we're filming and cutting editting video, we are seeing the same plays half a dozen times and more, sometimes. So, it is hard for me to speak to his play in previous years to level that I can this season. I've noticed a trend downward in terms of effort after week 2. I'll let others debate how much of a problem this has been for him in years previous.

I certainly don't mind the criticism, though. I mean, when I start a threat titled "least favorite Texan", I am kind of asking for it.

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 09:46 PM
I disagree completely. Mario is our only Dlineman who gives a damn. He's probably tired of playing on a line that the organization doesn't give a damn about and or an organization that is inept at placing talent that fits the defense.

We have isolated video of Antonio Smith from four games. I dare you to watch these and say that Antonio Smith doesn't give a damn:

Antonio Smith vs NYG (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-consistent-dl-man-mario/featured-articles/isolated-review/)
Antonio Smith vs. Oakland (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-attack-oakland/featured-articles/isolated-review/)

The video we've been discussing vs. SD (http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/)


Can't find the other one right now, but I'll look for it later.

stingray
11-09-2010, 09:54 PM
We have isolated video of Antonio Smith from four games. I dare you to watch these and say that Antonio Smith doesn't give a damn:

Antonio Smith vs NYG (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-consistent-dl-man-mario/featured-articles/isolated-review/)
Antonio Smith vs. Oakland (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-attack-oakland/featured-articles/isolated-review/)

The video we've been discussing vs. SD (http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/)


Can't find the other one right now, but I'll look for it later.

Agreed on Antonio's motor. The guy doesn't quit.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 10:29 PM
This is like the third Mario thread that you've flown in and pouted extremely hard in, but I've yet to see you make a solid argument for why the criticisms of Mario Williams are inaccurate, false, or unsubstantiated. How about making a strong case for why he's such a beast that you claim he is. Use some recent numbers, find some recent footage in certain games like Dale has, give us something other than just storming in here and spitting on everyone's posts where they're disappointed because our #1 draft pick and franchise DE isn't playing like an elite DE. I'd just like to see you make a real case other than saying something like "you don't know shit."
I'm not pouting about anything, I didn't make the whiney thread about how one of our best defensive players is so terrible.

What exactly ARE your claims? It seems that your claims, and dalemurphy's, and others, are that Mario Williams is not an All-World, ultra-elite, top 3 defensive end. I have acknowledged that multiple times. The point I have made repeatedly is so what?

He isn't a beast, but he is very good. He is easily in the top 10 at his position. I don't care how hard he tries or how much physical potential he has. He is a very good player who would be nearly impossible to replace. Period.

Your whining is just that - whining. You have no solutions and no suggestions. Really, tell us, what do you suggest we do about Mario Williams? Trade him? Go ahead... don't hold back, tell us about why we shouldn't have MW on the team because he isn't Reggie White.

Or, you know, give us some numbers. Make a fool of yourself like that guy that said there are 20 better DEs in the league and then made a list including like 8 OLBs and other inferior players. Who all is better than Mario and how are we supposed to acquire them?

Or just keep whining about him and then getting butthurt when I respond. That's the only thing you have done so far, so I'm not really expecting you to break the trend.


Oh and for the record, here are my claims:

1. Mario is one of the 3 best players on our defense, if not THE best (Ryans?, Cushing?, Pollard?)
2. Mario is one of the 5-6 best on the team. (AJ, Leach, Foster, Mario, Schaub, ???)
2. Mario is one of the 6-7 best 4-3 DEs in the league.
3. Mario is an asset that the team would have extreme difficulty replacing.
4. Mario is an asset the team shouldn't replace anyway, considering that top 5 DEs don't exactly get put up for trade very often and he is the only pass rush we have.
5. Mario has a poor motor and doesn't necessarily give 100% at all times, but that doesn't change any of the above.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 10:38 PM
We have isolated video of Antonio Smith from four games. I dare you to watch these and say that Antonio Smith doesn't give a damn:

Antonio Smith vs NYG (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-consistent-dl-man-mario/featured-articles/isolated-review/)
Antonio Smith vs. Oakland (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-attack-oakland/featured-articles/isolated-review/)

The video we've been discussing vs. SD (http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/)


Can't find the other one right now, but I'll look for it later.
There is no denying that Smith has a great motor, as did Bulman, as do numerous players across the league.

What I want to know is, why not count Marios motor as part of his ability? Not everyone has great motors and great drive. Do you think it's their fault? Maybe Mario doesn't have the fiery passion for the game that some others do - so what? He is just doing his best to be successful and maybe playing football is the best he can do right now, even if it isn't his first interest. Maybe his real interest is playing cricket... who the **** knows. Point is, when he is clearly a major help to the team, and he is doing the best he is capable of, why do you want to give him a hard time about it?

Not everyone was born with equal drive and desire, you know. Are you rich? Did you scratch and claw your way up an entreprenurial ladder with fierce intensity? If not, I assume you still do your best to be successful in life, no? So should we give you hell for not having an insane amount of drive and ambition? Should we hate you for not being the next Bill Gates?

HJam72
11-09-2010, 10:41 PM
I think if Mario's #1 interest in life is freaking cricket, he should have stated so before we spent a #1 overall draft pick on him. 'Course we'd just have gotten stuck with Bush or Young, but that's beside the point.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 10:54 PM
I think if Mario's #1 interest in life is freaking cricket, he should have stated so before we spent a #1 overall draft pick on him. 'Course we'd just have gotten stuck with Bush or Young, but that's beside the point.
Why? The whole point is he is a very good player, regardless of how much he cares about football.

silvrhand
11-09-2010, 10:57 PM
There is no denying that Smith has a great motor, as did Bulman, as do numerous players across the league.

What I want to know is, why not count Marios motor as part of his ability?


Wagon you act like this is the first time that he has gotten called out, hell even Coach Kubiak called him out and pulled him aside in a one on one meeting last year. His own teammates were calling out his effort, and it shows on film.

I don't know why you guys act like this is a shocking relevation, hell it was even in his SCOUTING report from college.

TEXANRED
11-09-2010, 11:01 PM
We have isolated video of Antonio Smith from four games. I dare you to watch these and say that Antonio Smith doesn't give a damn:

Antonio Smith vs NYG (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-consistent-dl-man-mario/featured-articles/isolated-review/)
Antonio Smith vs. Oakland (http://www.texansbullblog.com/antonio-smith-attack-oakland/featured-articles/isolated-review/)

The video we've been discussing vs. SD (http://www.texansbullblog.com/wrong-defense-exhibit-mario-williams-god-antonio-smith/featured-articles/isolated-review/)


Can't find the other one right now, but I'll look for it later.

So on one hand I have a guy (Mario) who doesn't give a damn and gives a half ass effort and has only produced 19 tackles and 6 sacks.

And on the other hand I have a guy (Smith) who has a high motor, lots of effort, and cares and has put up a steller 20 tackles and 2.5 sacks.

So, half ass little effort gets you the same as high motor lots of effort.

Hmm.

Are we sure we know what our DE's job assignments are on each play? Follow me here, sometimes the play calls for the end to stay home and secure the edge or spy the QB.

Mario is awesome. Mario is asked to do a lot more than just rush the passer.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 11:03 PM
Wagon you act like this is the first time that he has gotten called out, hell even Coach Kubiak called him out and pulled him aside in a one on one meeting last year. His own teammates were calling out his effort, and it shows on film.

I don't know why you guys act like this is a shocking relevation, hell it was even in his SCOUTING report from college.
Where did I act like I was shocked? I've said half a dozen times he has a poor motor.

silvrhand
11-09-2010, 11:05 PM
so on one hand i have a guy (mario) who doesn't give a damn and gives a half ass effort and has only produced 19 tackles and 6 sacks.

And on the other hand i have a guy (smith) who has a high motor, lots of effort, and cares and has put up a steller 20 tackles and 2.5 sacks.

So, half ass little effort gets you the same as high motor lots of effort.

Hmm.

Are we sure we know what our de's job assignments are on each play? Follow me here, sometimes the play calls for the end to stay home and secure the edge or spy the qb.

Mario is awesome. Mario is asked to do a lot more than just rush the passer.

Outside of the first two games where he had 4 sacks, Mario has been mr. nobody. In the last 6 games he's had 2 sacks and about 12 tackles.. real barn burner...

TEXANRED
11-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Outside of the first two games where he had 4 sacks, Mario has been mr. nobody. In the last 6 games he's had 2 sacks and about 12 tackles.. real barn burner...

Soooooo he has had as many sacks in 6 games as Smith? How are you planning to win this debate?

Not saying Smith is bad. I like Smith. But to praise Smith and spit on Mario, well....:mariopalm:

dalemurphy
11-09-2010, 11:17 PM
Soooooo he has had as many sacks in 6 games as Smith? How are you planning to win this debate?

Not saying Smith is bad. I like Smith. But to praise Smith and spit on Mario, well....:mariopalm:

Praising the effort of one and complaining about the effort of the other. I'm not sure what is confusing about that.

Nothing I said would indicate that I think Smith is more talented than Mario... the reverse is true. Mario is very talented and is either very injured or he's healthy and just doesn't give a damn about the team, teammates, and the season.

gtexan02
11-09-2010, 11:22 PM
Lets be clear here. Mario is not Dwight Freeney. He's not going to pass rush every play. In mroe than a few clips, it looked like Mario was playing contain quite well

BullNation4Life
11-09-2010, 11:23 PM
Considering the video clearly debunks that whole blog, Mario is 1 sack off from where Peppers was his first 4 years ( won't count this year because it hasn't finished yet) in the league and 5 off where Bruce Smith was in his first 4 years, I'd say Mario Williams is doing just fine. Now could he play better, sure who on that atrocious defense couldn't. Antonio Smith has been on the team for what 2 years now and only has 7 sacks total is laughable as well...

but since stats and those who judge a DE only by sacks are for losers, as they say, I will agree to disagree...

Texan4Ever
11-09-2010, 11:27 PM
I saw Mario at The Galleria after the Texans lost to the Saints (preseason last year?) He was very ticked-off looking and was walking away really quickly. Probabaly a great guy when he's not mad...anyways

I agree, seems to me that Mario is not 100%, but regardless wether or not he's at a 100% or not, w/o our defensive line would suck. Having him go through the motions forces opposing teams to acknowledge where he's at and account for him because you never know where and when he's gonna come attack you.

Antonio Smith is a great addition to the team, he may not wow you with stats but he does the small things well and gives us another run-stopper who is a force to be reckoned with.

TEXANRED
11-09-2010, 11:27 PM
Praising the effort of one and complaining about the effort of the other. I'm not sure what is confusing about that.

Nothing I said would indicate that I think Smith is more talented than Mario... the reverse is true. Mario is very talented and is either very injured or he's healthy and just doesn't give a damn about the team, teammates, and the season.

I would have to say when you open with calling Mario Williams 285lbs of sculpted shit as being the same as talentless.

Now, that may or may not be the way you meant it but it is certainly how, IMO, perceived.

Also I don't understand how anyone could say that Mario doesn't give a damn. I don't see it. To know what IDGAF looks like look no further than Randy Moss.

Texan_Bill
11-09-2010, 11:34 PM
I think if Mario's #1 interest in life is freaking cricket, he should have stated so before we spent a #1 overall draft pick on him. 'Course we'd just have gotten stuck with Bush or Young, but that's beside the point.

:rolleyes: Riiiiight!!! How is that "besides the point"??? We would've been stuck with Reggie, "I haven't done shite in this league, nor can I stay on the field" Bush or Vincent "Sausage, shirtless nekkid, Diva Boi" Young been a better a pick???

Texan_Bill
11-09-2010, 11:35 PM
Please tell me there is an agenda, otherwise this is a bad post based on the video presented IMO.

Agenda.

Mr. White
11-10-2010, 01:41 AM
Agenda.

I disagree. DM's an intense guy when it comes to the Texans. I've never seen a guy get so crazy over a football team.

Not to say they don't exist, I just haven't seen one.

Dale just switched to the dark side, and his anger is unfocused, as is often the case with new apprentices. He has not yet learned to channel his fear and anger as many of us pink-soapers have. We all know the goal is to turn the Empire against itself and let it implode, but Dale hasn't caught wind of that yet.

Back to the thread: My opinion: as the defense goes, so goes Mario. When your defense is giving up 400+ yards every week, Mario doesn't do anything to stand out. When the defense is feasting, then Mario gets a couple helpings.

When the system sucks, I just don't think much can be expected from Mario. We've seen it before.

DexmanC
11-10-2010, 01:50 AM
I disagree. DM's an intense guy when it comes to the Texans. I've never seen a guy get so crazy over a football team.

Not to say they don't exist, I just haven't seen one.

Dale just switched to the dark side, and his anger is unfocused, as is often the case with new apprentices. He has not yet learned to channel his fear and anger as many of us pink-soapers have. We all know the goal is to turn the Empire against itself and let it implode, but Dale hasn't caught wind of that yet.

Back to the thread: My opinion: as the defense goes, so goes Mario. When your defense is giving up 400+ yards every week, Mario doesn't do anything to stand out. When the defense is feasting, then Mario gets a couple helpings.

When the system sucks, I just don't think much can be expected from Mario. We've seen it before.

When you've got talking heads AND players talking about how simplistic
the defensive scheme is, the players WILL be demoralized. No matter
what they do, the players know where to go with the ball before the
snap. The Giants and Cowboys exposed two key weaknesses
in the pass defense: Kareem Jackson's tendency to "look inside," and
lack of creativity from Frank Bush's schemes.

The defense has been getting WORKED since the Cowboys game, and since
they're making the same mistakes over and over again, even BETTER
coaches like Norv, Del Rio, Fisher, Reid, Harbaugh, and Ryan will find NEW ways to exploit the sieve.

With every game the Texans play, more and more tape goes out to the coaches.
Kareem ALONE spots every opponent two touchdowns, and Kubiak is STEADFAST
in leaving him in there. The Titans got RANDY MOSS. The Ravens got ANQUAN BOLDIN.
The Eagles got DESEAN JACKSON. If "Don'MessWitMYTooToot" can burn Kareem like that,
what's Mike Simms-Walker gonna do?

GOTT DAMN, it's gonna be a long 8 games!

newtexan
11-10-2010, 01:50 AM
This is too easy, i'm sure mario is your favorite player,but you're pissed at him now because of the the Texans record, Mario needs a HYPE-MAN, a rookie that makes plays every now and then, MALCOLM SHEPPARD/MITCHELL.

leebigeztx
11-10-2010, 02:09 AM
Pressure leads to picks, coverage leads to sacks. If mario is rushing the qb, but the wr is getting open on the 1st read, he's not getting a sack. If mario is coming upfield but there is no gut pressure fromt the tackles, the qb will step up and deliver. They have alot of breakdowns and there is a big reason why qb's have the highest ratings and completions vs this team.

newtexan
11-10-2010, 02:19 AM
mario needs a hype man, for these things to happen, trust me, MITCHELL/SHEPPARD must be played more.

silvrhand
11-10-2010, 10:13 AM
Agenda.

Come on Bill you and I both have talked about this before something is wrong with Mario we don't know what it is but given his history I would assume it's motivation.

It could be the fact that he's just not good at playing through pain so injuries that most players play through he just can't, I dunno but something is clearly off with him. From the videos it just looks like effort IMHO. I want the OLD mario back the one that was disruptive 8-10 plays a game. That's all I want, I dont' want sacks but I want him to go

RAWR

at least 8-10 times a game and make a play, that's what great players do. Mario has all the physical talents to be great, he just can't make the next step from above averge to great.

eriadoc
11-10-2010, 10:49 AM
Dale, you're way off base here. I'm not going to argue that Mario is the greatest DE to ever play or anything like that, nor am I disputing that he disappears for long stretches. But with the video you have posted, it's evident to me that you don't know how to evaluate effort. He is pushing his guy back, he chases run plays from behind (often many, many yards downfield), and he never stops pursuing.

IMO, Mario just doesn't have any wiggle to his game. He relies on speed, strength, and whatever technique is taught to him. I'd love to spend some time with Mario on the mat. Offenses would be clueless how to stop him.

Double Barrel
11-10-2010, 12:13 PM
Mario is the epitome of a Houston Texan: lots of potential with average results.

TEXANRED
11-10-2010, 03:24 PM
Mario is the epitome of a Houston Texan: lots of potential with average results.

I will have to disagree with this statement as well. With a possible 64 starting defensive ends there are only 7 DE's that are ahead of him in sacks and he is only 2.5 sacks behind the leader.

Now tackles are a different story but I think that is the style of scheme we are running. Mario has 19 and Smith has 20. This puts them in the bottom half.

Honestly I think our staff wants our line to just be a body and the LB's make all the plays. Which is dumb by the way.

Double Barrel
11-10-2010, 03:29 PM
I will have to disagree with this statement as well. With a possible 64 starting defensive ends there are only 7 DE's that are ahead of him in sacks and he is only 2.5 sacks behind the leader.

Now tackles are a different story but I think that is the style of scheme we are running. Mario has 19 and Smith has 20. This puts them in the bottom half.

Honestly I think our staff wants our line to just be a body and the LB's make all the plays. Which is dumb by the way.

I don't care about statistics. Besides, you can pick and choose to support any given perspective, as your post clearly demonstrates.

I see what I see, which is a lack of consistent pressure on opposing teams' QBs. Games are won and lost in the trenches. And with a very weak secondary, we need pressure up front to make up for our glaring weakness. Our no. 1 overall pick is simply not putting consistent pressure that he should be given his physical skills and resources devoted to acquiring and retaining his services.

I never said that he's not a good DE. I'm just pointing out that he's nowhere near as good as he could be (and should be), all things considered.

ArlingtonTexan
11-10-2010, 03:40 PM
Mario is the epitome of a Houston Texan: lots of potential with average results.

Think I agree with this and more specifically your post above this one.

In a free agency era, Mario williams is the worst sort of player to have. He is better than anything that will come onthe market, but he is not as good as he could be. Essentially, the Texans almost have to keep and have to overpay because there is not another Mario williams available either in the draft or FA market.

dalemurphy
11-10-2010, 04:12 PM
Dale, you're way off base here. I'm not going to argue that Mario is the greatest DE to ever play or anything like that, nor am I disputing that he disappears for long stretches. But with the video you have posted, it's evident to me that you don't know how to evaluate effort. He is pushing his guy back, he chases run plays from behind (often many, many yards downfield), and he never stops pursuing.

IMO, Mario just doesn't have any wiggle to his game. He relies on speed, strength, and whatever technique is taught to him. I'd love to spend some time with Mario on the mat. Offenses would be clueless how to stop him.


He is in his 5th year in the NFL and with his third DL coach. I find it difficult to believe that what is displayed on video is that of an experienced, motivated, and healthy player with his physical abilities. If he has learned that little "wiggle" and "technique", then clearly he is not a very motivated athlete.

It is clear to me that we are seeing one of three things:

1. a very injured player.
2. a selfish and unmotivated player on gameday
3. a lazy practice player that has no respect for the game or his teammates to improve on basic fundamentals of his craft.

Unless it is number one, I really don't like the guy.

DexmanC
11-10-2010, 05:14 PM
He is in his 5th year in the NFL and with his third DL coach. I find it difficult to believe that what is displayed on video is that of an experienced, motivated, and healthy player with his physical abilities. If he has learned that little "wiggle" and "technique", then clearly he is not a very motivated athlete.

It is clear to me that we are seeing one of three things:

1. a very injured player.
2. a selfish and unmotivated player on gameday
3. a lazy practice player that has no respect for the game or his teammates to improve on basic fundamentals of his craft.

Unless it is number one, I really don't like the guy.

I'd say Mario's drop in production, again, falls on coaching (Kubiak)

Mario's most productive seasons came under the tutelage of Jethro Franklin.
If you remember, Franklin had a way of irritating Mario to the brink of
aggravated assault on the sidelines. Mario was able to convince Kubiak
to fire Jethro. It's a subtle, but critical detail in the development
of this team.

The inmates are running the assylum. That will have to change, if we're
to see the greatest 8-game turnaround in Texans' history.

eriadoc
11-10-2010, 05:19 PM
He is in his 5th year in the NFL and with his third DL coach.

And that alone doesn't lead you to at least consider that there might be coaching issues involved?

JB
11-10-2010, 05:32 PM
I'd say Mario's drop in production, again, falls on coaching (Kubiak)

Mario's most productive seasons came under the tutelage of Jethro Franklin.
If you remember, Franklin had a way of irritating Mario to the brink of
aggravated assault on the sidelines. Mario was able to convince Kubiak
to fire Jethro. It's a subtle, but critical detail in the development
of this team.

The inmates are running the assylum. That will have to change, if we're
to see the greatest 8-game turnaround in Texans' history.

Really? You got anything to back it up?

Double Barrel
11-10-2010, 05:58 PM
Really? You got anything to back it up?

He would show you, but it's a Richard Justice article. :winky:

JB
11-10-2010, 06:12 PM
He would show you, but it's a Richard Justice article. :winky:

:lol: Guess I deserved that...

infantrycak
11-10-2010, 06:17 PM
Really? You got anything to back it up?

He may be speaking about an incident I witnessed on the sideline that resulted in Smith restraining Mario after Franklin kept ignoring Mario's repeated attempts to talk to him. All the intent, getting him fired, yada yada is Dexman filling in to meet his agenda. I could as easily say the incident showed Mario's intensity and his dedication to the game because his was butt chewing the coach for his ineffective schemes. Anyone can play the self-serving conjecture game.

As for the thread, hey dale can consider Mario his least favorite player. That's a personal decision. But Mario is also one of the least significant problems on the team.

The Cush
11-10-2010, 06:34 PM
The very first play in the second video of "Mario getting dominated by a TE", its a run play and it looks like he's doing his job by holding his position and cutting off the outside. I could be wrong but thats what it looks like to me

DexmanC
11-10-2010, 07:22 PM
Really? You got anything to back it up?

N.D. Kalu (who played for the Texans) hinted at it on one of the 610 shows last season.
I don't work at SportsRadio610, but I was an avid listener last year.

dalemurphy
11-10-2010, 07:23 PM
The very first play in the second video of "Mario getting dominated by a TE", its a run play and it looks like he's doing his job by holding his position and cutting off the outside. I could be wrong but thats what it looks like to me

You are right in that the 240 lb TE did not drive block Mario into oblivion. However, on at least 2 of those 3 plays, Mario (simply by doing his job better) could have made a play. Why dance with the TE and allow him to seal you. Throw that guy on the ground, seal your responsibilities, and then go make a freakin' play!

imatexan
11-10-2010, 08:00 PM
I'd say Mario's drop in production, again, falls on coaching (Kubiak)

Mario's most productive seasons came under the tutelage of Jethro Franklin.
If you remember, Franklin had a way of irritating Mario to the brink of
aggravated assault on the sidelines. Mario was able to convince Kubiak
to fire Jethro. It's a subtle, but critical detail in the development
of this team.

The inmates are running the assylum. That will have to change, if we're
to see the greatest 8-game turnaround in Texans' history.

Since everything is Kubiak's fault, was it Kubiaks fault that Andre dropped the catch at the end of the SD game?

You might have already blamed Gary in another thread for this but I have not been on the boards much this past week.

DexmanC
11-10-2010, 08:11 PM
Kubiak's who he is, has been, and always will be.

As LeVarr Burton said on "Reading Rainbow..."

"....but you don't have to take my word for it."

Texan_Bill
11-10-2010, 08:28 PM
Come on Bill you and I both have talked about this before something is wrong with Mario we don't know what it is but given his history I would assume it's motivation.

It could be the fact that he's just not good at playing through pain so injuries that most players play through he just can't, I dunno but something is clearly off with him. From the videos it just looks like effort IMHO. I want the OLD mario back the one that was disruptive 8-10 plays a game. That's all I want, I dont' want sacks but I want him to go

RAWR

at least 8-10 times a game and make a play, that's what great players do. Mario has all the physical talents to be great, he just can't make the next step from above averge to great.

Hold on... I have no problem criticizing poor play. I've called out Mario before and am not afraid to call him out again. This is however is a case of someone having an agenda, because in those videos, he actually did his job for the most part. Believe it or not, Mario is the one out of 11 that I generally don't worry about....

However, I do agree with you in questioning his motivation at times.

Again though, I'm not afraid to call him out when he displays massive amounts of suckitude.

imatexan
11-10-2010, 08:29 PM
Kubiak's who he is, has been, and always will be.

As LeVarr Burton said on "Reading Rainbow..."

"....but you don't have to take my word for it."

I think Kubiak has done a terrible job in these past few games but I also believe that the players take part of that responsibility.

From what I have seen you post, it seems like you do not distribute the blame.

b0ng
11-11-2010, 10:08 AM
In this video breakdown I will play psychologist and attempt to get inside Mario Williams head to tell you what he is thinking and how much he does not care

You're better than that. Trying to break down a players thoughts and emotions, rather than the execution of plays that have happened and where they are going wrong screams bad analysis. There are too many variables to be able to say "He's not doing this right because he doesn't care" when you could easily say "He failed on this play because he did this rather than doing that".

Stop playing psyche evaluator and just break down some tape for me man. You are way better at the latter than the former.

Double Barrel
11-11-2010, 10:45 AM
I think Kubiak has done a terrible job in these past few games but I also believe that the players take part of that responsibility.

From what I have seen you post, it seems like you do not distribute the blame.

Okay, let's say 50/50 responsibility on the players. Who picked the players? With the sole exception of AJ, the collective bunch is ultimately representative of the Kubiak regime.

thunderkyss
11-11-2010, 11:27 AM
The inmates are running the assylum. That will have to change, if we're
to see the greatest 8-game turnaround in Texans' history.

Do you make this stuff up yourself, or do you have help??

thunderkyss
11-11-2010, 11:38 AM
However, I do agree with you in questioning his motivation at times.

Again though, I'm not afraid to call him out when he displays massive amounts of suckitude.

I agree..... surely there must have been better video where Mario wasn't Mario. But those clips show a man setting the edge the way he's supposed to, bull rushing a tackle damn near into a QB, or pursuing the run on the backside (that particular play shows him running it down on top, where he used to pursue underneath the line.... don't know why the change... don't like it).

I'd actually like to see Antonio set the edge the way Mario does & pursue on the backside like Mario does...... finish sacks, like Mario does.

Antonio's initial burst & power are amazing. I think he's a fast twitch guy (don't think Mario is), but after that initial burst, he sort of Peters away.

I would also like to see passing situations with both Mario & Antonio on the inside, Anderson & Cushing or Jamison on the outside..

dalemurphy
11-12-2010, 08:40 AM
Considering the video clearly debunks that whole blog, Mario is 1 sack off from where Peppers was his first 4 years ( won't count this year because it hasn't finished yet) in the league and 5 off where Bruce Smith was in his first 4 years, I'd say Mario Williams is doing just fine. Now could he play better, sure who on that atrocious defense couldn't. Antonio Smith has been on the team for what 2 years now and only has 7 sacks total is laughable as well...
but since stats and those who judge a DE only by sacks are for losers, as they say, I will agree to disagree...


Let's ignore the fact that Mario Williams, though he has the talent and physique, is unable to mentally handle moving to DT on passing downs... Meanwhile, A. Smith moves all over the place, depending on the situation, and is effective wherever he is placed....

let's talk stats. Who do you think is the better player?: Dwight Freeney or Robert Mathis?

Freeney, in 2006 and 2007, had a total of 9 sacks.
RMathis, in 2006 and 2007, had a total of 16.5 sacks.

Over a 4 year period (2005-2008),

Freeney = 30 sacks
Mathis = 39.5 sacks


Stats, of course, don't tell the whole story. Regardless, though, I did not say that Mario Williams is not any good. I'm saying that, if his poor effort is not due to some serious health issues, I'm not a fan of his because I appreciate and value effort when I watch football. I'm not sure why that is so contraversial.

4x4tx
11-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Can anyone teach mario a move besides going way outside and trying to go around everyone every time? I dont think its illegal to mix in a little dwight freeney spin move every once in a while

eriadoc
11-12-2010, 11:37 AM
Can anyone teach mario a move besides going way outside and trying to go around everyone every time? I dont think its illegal to mix in a little dwight freeney spin move every once in a while

Google "rotational motion", "physics", and "moment of inertia".

76Texan
11-12-2010, 12:29 PM
Can anyone teach mario a move besides going way outside and trying to go around everyone every time? I dont think its illegal to mix in a little dwight freeney spin move every once in a while

http://www2.scholastic.com/content/images/articles/c/coach_images_co6FOOTBALL.BEN.DIA7.jpg

Each player is asked to do certain specific things on each play.
When he's instructed to rush the edge, that's what he's going to do.

silvrhand
11-12-2010, 01:58 PM
http://www2.scholastic.com/content/images/articles/c/coach_images_co6FOOTBALL.BEN.DIA7.jpg

Each player is asked to do certain specific things on each play.
When he's instructed to rush the edge, that's what he's going to do.

Come on you know our stunts are hardly effective, I mean we might as well put roadmaps down to who is shooting what gap. We seem to never ever do an overload blitz..

As far as Mario setting the edge, setting the edge doesn't mean to ALWAYS speed rush, he can set the edge with a hard push upfield and spin, or get better leverage on the tackle and run him into the QB, also known as the bull rush..

I think Reggie White had one of the best upfield with the opposite hand throw that I've ever seen in football that was just ridiculous.

infantrycak
11-12-2010, 03:13 PM
or get better leverage on the tackle and run him into the QB, also known as the bull rush.

Are you contending Mario does not bull rush?

dalemurphy
11-12-2010, 03:14 PM
http://www2.scholastic.com/content/images/articles/c/coach_images_co6FOOTBALL.BEN.DIA7.jpg

Each player is asked to do certain specific things on each play.
When he's instructed to rush the edge, that's what he's going to do.

Do you know what those pointy things at the end of those lines represent? It represents opportunity for continuing motion in that direction. So, when Mario is assigned to rush the edge and meets a 240 lb one yard from the line of scrimmage and stops there, I am not satisfied that he has executed at a high level... crazy, I know.

thunderkyss
11-12-2010, 05:05 PM
Come on you know our stunts are hardly effective, I mean we might as well put roadmaps down to who is shooting what gap. We seem to never ever do an overload blitz..

As far as Mario setting the edge, setting the edge doesn't mean to ALWAYS speed rush, he can set the edge with a hard push upfield and spin, or get better leverage on the tackle and run him into the QB, also known as the bull rush..

I think Reggie White had one of the best upfield with the opposite hand throw that I've ever seen in football that was just ridiculous.

Setting the edge is what the play side end (sometimes a LB, sometimes a DB, usually a DE) is supposed to do to get the runner to turn back into the middle of the formation where most of your defenders are supposed to be.

Has nothing to do with getting to the QB.

silvrhand
11-12-2010, 05:58 PM
Setting the edge is what the play side end (sometimes a LB, sometimes a DB, usually a DE) is supposed to do to get the runner to turn back into the middle of the formation where most of your defenders are supposed to be.

Has nothing to do with getting to the QB.

le sigh.. he should know whether or not he has to set the edge or not before he even gets out of his stance.. it's not like most tackles take any tact anymore in hiding if it's a run or pass out of their stance.

:mariopalm:

playa465
11-12-2010, 06:18 PM
le sigh.. he should know whether or not he has to set the edge or not before he even gets out of his stance.. it's not like most tackles take any tact anymore in hiding if it's a run or pass out of their stance.

:mariopalm:

Not Mario's job...if the defensive play is called to require him to set the edge then that is what he is supposed to do...now if our defensive alignment is set to play the run but it looks like a pass, then its the Mike's job to alert everyone and have the players make changes. This still doesn't change that yes Mario can use different moves to accomplish his objective.

Texecutioner
11-12-2010, 09:51 PM
I don't care about statistics. Besides, you can pick and choose to support any given perspective, as your post clearly demonstrates.

I see what I see, which is a lack of consistent pressure on opposing teams' QBs. Games are won and lost in the trenches. And with a very weak secondary, we need pressure up front to make up for our glaring weakness. Our no. 1 overall pick is simply not putting consistent pressure that he should be given his physical skills and resources devoted to acquiring and retaining his services.

I never said that he's not a good DE. I'm just pointing out that he's nowhere near as good as he could be (and should be), all things considered.

I think this post sums it up pretty damn well DB. Anyone who has watched the majority of Texans games over the years at this point shouldn't be able to say with a straight face that Mario is this electrifying DE that puts on constant pressure. He doesn't do that consistently. People seem to get all enraged because he's one of the best defensive players we have on this team. Well woopity dooo! He's one of the best players on the worst defense in the league, and Mario is part of that as much as people don't want to believe. First round picks have high expectations. First picks of the draft have extremely high expectations. They get paid salaries that most players dream of, and therefore asking them to play like a complete stud isn't asking that much when you're paid to be that kind of player.

Mario's stats are pretty good if you look at just sacks, but outside of that they're not eye popping really. But it's not the sack #'s I care about as much, it's the QB hurries that make the big difference throughout a game and the constant pressure that you want to see out of a guy who is supposed to be a big time DE. Mario just doesn't give constant pressure. He does in small spurts, but disappears for to long of stretches at a time.

Take a guy like Michael Strahan. I used to love to watch that guy play. It was never about the sacks that made me value the kind of DE he was even though he got a ton of them, but it was the constant pressure he always brought and the big plays he always seemed to make when his team needed them. Strahan was a total beast for the Giants for years. His presence was always felt on the field the whole game. Mario is not that type of DE.

JB
11-12-2010, 10:20 PM
I think this post sums it up pretty damn well DB. Anyone who has watched the majority of Texans games over the years at this point shouldn't be able to say with a straight face that Mario is this electrifying DE that puts on constant pressure. He doesn't do that consistently. People seem to get all enraged because he's one of the best defensive players we have on this team. Well woopity dooo! He's one of the best players on the worst defense in the league, and Mario is part of that as much as people don't want to believe. First round picks have high expectations. First picks of the draft have extremely high expectations. They get paid salaries that most players dream of, and therefore asking them to play like a complete stud isn't asking that much when you're paid to be that kind of player.

Mario's stats are pretty good if you look at just sacks, but outside of that they're not eye popping really. But it's not the sack #'s I care about as much, it's the QB hurries that make the big difference throughout a game and the constant pressure that you want to see out of a guy who is supposed to be a big time DE. Mario just doesn't give constant pressure. He does in small spurts, but disappears for to long of stretches at a time.

Take a guy like Michael Strahan. I used to love to watch that guy play. It was never about the sacks that made me value the kind of DE he was even though he got a ton of them, but it was the constant pressure he always brought and the big plays he always seemed to make when his team needed them. Strahan was a total beast for the Giants for years. His presence was always felt on the field the whole game. Mario is not that type of DE.




This is all true. But there is not a team in the league that would not love to have Mario at his current contract.

It is becoming more apparant every game that Mario is not happy with the scheme.

I would like to see consistency out of him, and he is not the top DE in the league, but he is top 10.

How effective would he be if he was playing next to a Shaun Rogers type DT?

dalemurphy
11-12-2010, 10:35 PM
This is all true. But there is not a team in the league that would not love to have Mario at his current contract.

It is becoming more apparant every game that Mario is not happy with the scheme.

I would like to see consistency out of him, and he is not the top DE in the league, but he is top 10.

How effective would he be if he was playing next to a Shaun Rogers type DT?


How effective would he be if he was playing next to the same guys he does now, only he gave better effort (like Antonio Smith)... Being the most talented player on the DL hardly seems like an excuse to give the least amount of effort.

JB
11-12-2010, 10:47 PM
How effective would he be if he was playing next to the same guys he does now, only he gave better effort (like Antonio Smith)... Being the most talented player on the DL hardly seems like an excuse to give the least amount of effort.



And I disagree with you on his effort. So be it.

playa465
11-12-2010, 10:53 PM
I think this post sums it up pretty damn well DB. Anyone who has watched the majority of Texans games over the years at this point shouldn't be able to say with a straight face that Mario is this electrifying DE that puts on constant pressure. He doesn't do that consistently. People seem to get all enraged because he's one of the best defensive players we have on this team. Well woopity dooo! He's one of the best players on the worst defense in the league, and Mario is part of that as much as people don't want to believe. First round picks have high expectations. First picks of the draft have extremely high expectations. They get paid salaries that most players dream of, and therefore asking them to play like a complete stud isn't asking that much when you're paid to be that kind of player.

Mario's stats are pretty good if you look at just sacks, but outside of that they're not eye popping really. But it's not the sack #'s I care about as much, it's the QB hurries that make the big difference throughout a game and the constant pressure that you want to see out of a guy who is supposed to be a big time DE. Mario just doesn't give constant pressure. He does in small spurts, but disappears for to long of stretches at a time.

Take a guy like Michael Strahan. I used to love to watch that guy play. It was never about the sacks that made me value the kind of DE he was even though he got a ton of them, but it was the constant pressure he always brought and the big plays he always seemed to make when his team needed them. Strahan was a total beast for the Giants for years. His presence was always felt on the field the whole game. Mario is not that type of DE.


I agree and the whole world knew Mario was not a constant high motor guy, I don't think its a character thing b/c Reggie White was a gentle giant off the field but on the field he was a raging beast in his play all the time. Strahan was a high motor guy but Strahan was primarily a LDE (as was Reggie White and Bruce Smith), he didnt start moving around until his later years...also don't forget Strahan has always had bonafide guys on the line with him going back to 97. They may not be household names but Robert Harris, Keith Hamilton, Chad Bratzke, Fred Robbins, Kenny Holmes, Osi, Tuck are all better than what we have put on our front. This is not excuse an on Mario's behalf, we just have to get better at the other DL positions too. We've tried it just hasn't been working.

drewmar74
11-12-2010, 11:03 PM
This is not excuse an on Mario's behalf, we just have to get better at the other DL positions too. We've tried it just hasn't been working.

A rather damning indictment of the coaching, GM, and talent evaluation on this team given all the draft picks thrown at the D line.

marks01234
11-13-2010, 07:49 AM
Some of you guys are incredibly hard to please.

After game one where Mario had like 6 hurries people complained that he only had one sack and wasn't "finishing plays" or "wasn't on the level to make that play". Fast forward to now where he has 6 sacks on the season and people are now saying he isn't getting enough QB hurries.

Prior to this year somebody had a stat floating around that Mario was third in the NFL in QB huries over the past three years - behind only Jared Allen and somebody else. Not exactly sure how Mario is doing relative to these other guys this year but man if some of you are not tough to please.

You guys do realize that Peppers has two sacks on the season to date and Jared Allen has three sacks?

infantrycak
11-13-2010, 09:29 AM
But it's not the sack #'s I care about as much, it's the QB hurries that make the big difference throughout a game and the constant pressure that you want to see out of a guy who is supposed to be a big time DE. Mario just doesn't give constant pressure. He does in small spurts, but disappears for to long of stretches at a time.

Hmmm, for a halfass effort guy who only plays in spurts and doesn't pressure the QB enough it sure is odd he was at the top of the league last year in QB hurries and hits.

But then last year the complaining refrain was Mario and Smith getting hurries didn't count, only sacks did.

thunderkyss
11-13-2010, 09:41 AM
This is all true.

No, that is not all true. He makes it seems like Strahan, Jared Allen, J Peppers, Jason Taylor, or Jason Babin is breathing down the QBs neck on every single play, & that is just not the case.

thunderkyss
11-13-2010, 09:43 AM
Hmmm, for a halfass effort guy who only plays in spurts and doesn't pressure the QB enough it sure is odd he was at the top of the league last year in QB hurries and hits.

But then last year the complaining refrain was Mario and Smith getting hurries didn't count, only sacks did.

Excuses......

Mario needs to get better at hitting moving targets...... period.


:kitten:

BullNation4Life
11-13-2010, 07:32 PM
Let's ignore the fact that Mario Williams, though he has the talent and physique, is unable to mentally handle moving to DT on passing downs... Meanwhile, A. Smith moves all over the place, depending on the situation, and is effective wherever he is placed....

let's talk stats. Who do you think is the better player?: Dwight Freeney or Robert Mathis?

Freeney, in 2006 and 2007, had a total of 9 sacks.
RMathis, in 2006 and 2007, had a total of 16.5 sacks.

Over a 4 year period (2005-2008),

Freeney = 30 sacks
Mathis = 39.5 sacks


Stats, of course, don't tell the whole story. Regardless, though, I did not say that Mario Williams is not any good. I'm saying that, if his poor effort is not due to some serious health issues, I'm not a fan of his because I appreciate and value effort when I watch football. I'm not sure why that is so contraversial.

Ok, you just provided your own evidence that Mario Williams is not the problem. Look how much help Freeney has on the other side of the DL in Mathis. Has Mario Ever had that kind of production on the other side? Also, these stats do not tell the whole story, as you put, because of one player that is the factor of Freeney and Mathis success, that being Peyton Manning.

Manning is the sole reason these 2, Freeney and Mathis, have the sack totals they have in the fact other teams play from behind constantly against the Colts, causing them to pass more and allowing Freeney and Mathis to pin their ears back and go after the QB. How often are the Texans so far ahead that the defense can pin their ears back and go hunting for QB? Never would be the answer...

Also, Mathis and Freeney are absolutely HORRIBLE in run defense, where Mario Williams is one of the best run stopping DE in the league as your video provided said evidence, teams don't run to Mario's side of the field...

So you cannot compare Freeney, Mathis and Mario stat wise because the deciding factor is a Hall of Fame QB on the other side of the ball putting his defensive players in a position to be successful...

Like I said before, DE is a lot more than sack numbers and people who understand the position, know this to be true...

dalemurphy
11-13-2010, 09:03 PM
Ok, you just provided your own evidence that Mario Williams is not the problem. Look how much help Freeney has on the other side of the DL in Mathis. Has Mario Ever had that kind of production on the other side? Also, these stats do not tell the whole story, as you put, because of one player that is the factor of Freeney and Mathis success, that being Peyton Manning.

Manning is the sole reason these 2, Freeney and Mathis, have the sack totals they have in the fact other teams play from behind constantly against the Colts, causing them to pass more and allowing Freeney and Mathis to pin their ears back and go after the QB. How often are the Texans so far ahead that the defense can pin their ears back and go hunting for QB? Never would be the answer...

Also, Mathis and Freeney are absolutely HORRIBLE in run defense, where Mario Williams is one of the best run stopping DE in the league as your video provided said evidence, teams don't run to Mario's side of the field...

So you cannot compare Freeney, Mathis and Mario stat wise because the deciding factor is a Hall of Fame QB on the other side of the ball putting his defensive players in a position to be successful...

Like I said before, DE is a lot more than sack numbers and people who understand the position, know this to be true...


My post was in response to someone who argued that the stats do tell the whole story. He argued that Antonio Smith isn't any good because of the number of sacks he has had in his 22 games as a Texan, compared to Mario.

To your point, Mario does have a productive player with him this year... that player is Antonio Smith. Smith is taking on double teams and created pressure often. The Texans do a number of things with Smith to free up Williams. For instance, they sometimes line Smith and Williams up next to each other on 3rd down.

My question would be this?: If Mario was accumulating 13-14 sacks as a young and inexperienced player in 2007 and 2008 with a poorer offense and less help at DL, what do you attribute his dropoff in production the past season or so (if not effort)?

DexmanC
11-13-2010, 11:04 PM
People with high natural talent, make tasks look easier to perform than
those who MUST use MAX EFFORT to achieve HALF the results of the
naturally gifted performer.

Mario is one of these people with extreme natural ability. His production
will be as high if not higher than people with not so much talent.

Put a Mathis on the other side of Mario, or a Gilbert Brown, Darrell Talley,
Osi Umenyiora, Williams Bros., THEN we can see if Mario is "doggin'" it.

From what I can see, there is not another elite-level talent on that line.
We praise Antonio Smith for his effort, but he doesn't get half the results
Mario does. Can't blame a man for having high talent. Put more high-talented
people around him.

dalemurphy
11-13-2010, 11:31 PM
People with high natural talent, make tasks look easier to perform than
those who MUST use MAX EFFORT to achieve HALF the results of the
naturally gifted performer.


Mario certainly does make dancing at the line of scrimmage with TEs look very easy!

Texecutioner
11-14-2010, 01:13 AM
This is all true. But there is not a team in the league that would not love to have Mario at his current contract.

It is becoming more apparant every game that Mario is not happy with the scheme.

I would like to see consistency out of him, and he is not the top DE in the league, but he is top 10.

He'd be like #10 and maybe #9 if you went off of stats. I don't think he's top 10 though personally from watching him from game to game. He doesn't seem to bring enough constant intensity throughout an entire game.

How effective would he be if he was playing next to a Shaun Rogers type DT?

Well how much more effective could any DE be if they were next to a DT like Rogers? Sure Mario would be better if that were the case. But the fact is that we don't have Rogers and Mario needs to find a way to dominate and be that beast on the field that we need him to be regardless. He's being paid like that. He's driving Lamberghines around Houston and he's rich as hell off of his first contract from being the first pick of the draft. I don't think he's measured up to that. He's been good, but he hasn't been great to me.

thunderkyss
11-14-2010, 07:52 AM
Well how much more effective could any DE be if they were next to a DT like Rogers? Sure Mario would be better if that were the case. But the fact is that we don't have Rogers and Mario needs to find a way to dominate and be that beast on the field that we need him to be regardless. He's being paid like that. He's driving Lamberghines around Houston and he's rich as hell off of his first contract from being the first pick of the draft. I don't think he's measured up to that. He's been good, but he hasn't been great to me.

I'm a Mario fan..... I don't think he's taking plays off. I think he is a complete DE, doing exactly what he did at NC State. I don't think he's a pure pass rusher, or even a natural pass rusher, though he can rush the passer. I don't think he's got a mean bone in his body (which is not good for that position).

I understand we don't have anyone on the line that makes Mario's job easier......

But who's job does Mario make easier? One of the other should have happened putting him on the line. Either Amobi Okoye was supposed to make Mario's job easier, or Mario was supposed to make Okoye's job easier.. neither has happened.

Adding Antonio Smith to the line hasn't helped either, & I think we all agree he's above average, if not elite (I don't think he's elite).

I'm also not an Okoye hater.... I'm not a big fan, but I don't think he's as bad as he's made out to be. IMO, he does a good job getting pressure from the inside.

The way you beat the Texans, short quick passes over the middle, or with a QB who can buy time..... I don't think it's our line. Hasn't been for a while.

I'm not too upset with the Kareem pick. I wanted a cover corner, he's not a cover corner. I don't know why they are trying to fix their pass coverage issues by "making" him a cover corner.

They need to get off their heels & attack (like they did last year).

Texecutioner
11-14-2010, 01:11 PM
Hmmm, for a halfass effort guy who only plays in spurts and doesn't pressure the QB enough it sure is odd he was at the top of the league last year in QB hurries and hits.

But then last year the complaining refrain was Mario and Smith getting hurries didn't count, only sacks did.

Where did you find these stats? I've been trying to find those QB hurries stats, and can't find them on the stats sites like ESPN and NFL.com.

b0ng
11-17-2010, 10:31 AM
http://www.battleredblog.com/2010/11/17/1814891/sponsored-post-vicks-who-powered-through-who-played-through-the-pain

bump for relevancy.

HuttoKarl
11-17-2010, 11:29 AM
http://www.battleredblog.com/2010/11/17/1814891/sponsored-post-vicks-who-powered-through-who-played-through-the-pain

bump for relevancy.

Nice read....Mario and Smith are doing everything they can but when a QB can just chuck a ball up in the air and a WR is going to catch it, they just can't be effective.

HOU-TEX
11-17-2010, 11:38 AM
Nice read....Mario and Smith are doing everything they can but when a QB can just chuck a ball up in the air and a WR is going to catch it, they just can't be effective.

Or just step up in the pocket and create more time to throw due to zero push up the middle.

HuttoKarl
11-17-2010, 12:27 PM
Or just step up in the pocket and create more time to throw due to zero push up the middle.

Damn, damn, damn, DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!

My kingdom for a beefy, evil, good DT.

thunderkyss
11-17-2010, 12:28 PM
http://www.battleredblog.com/2010/11/17/1814891/sponsored-post-vicks-who-powered-through-who-played-through-the-pain

bump for relevancy.

For continuing to put up solid pass rush numbers in the face of pain, a sieve-like defensive secondary, and a scheme that is tailor-made to get stomped on three step drops and screens, Mario Williams has earned the right to say that he has Powered Through.

This hurts.

Have you ever wondered why QBs playing us always seem to play three step drops? It never fails, every game especially in the first Qtr, you'll see a bevy of 3 step drops. Much more than what I see against other teams.

Other games, the 3 steps are used, but they mix in a lot of other drops & packages.....

Our LBs aren't doing a damn thing in pass coverage, & it appears our DL is coached to part ways & open up like the red sea. Wouldn't be so bad if we send a defender through that gap on a delayed blitz every now & then...... but since everyone is using 3 steps to beat us..... he wouldn't get home anyway.

kiwitexansfan
11-17-2010, 01:10 PM
This hurts.

Have you ever wondered why QBs playing us always seem to play three step drops? It never fails, every game especially in the first Qtr, you'll see a bevy of 3 step drops. Much more than what I see against other teams.

Other games, the 3 steps are used, but they mix in a lot of other drops & packages.....

Our LBs aren't doing a damn thing in pass coverage, & it appears our DL is coached to part ways & open up like the red sea. Wouldn't be so bad if we send a defender through that gap on a delayed blitz every now & then...... but since everyone is using 3 steps to beat us..... he wouldn't get home anyway.

It only takes three steps for a WR to be wide open so why bother over complicating things?

BullNation4Life
11-17-2010, 02:16 PM
Nice read....Mario and Smith are doing everything they can but when a QB can just chuck a ball up in the air and a WR is going to catch it, they just can't be effective.

Like I said before, an will say again and again, playing the DE spot is more than accumulating sacks. If the Texans had ANY kind of push up the middle to flush the QB to one side or another, Smith and Mario would be racking up on sacks OR DTs would be when Mario and Smith flush from the side...

How do you think Jarred Allen got all those sacks last year? Williams boys where making the QB run for his life and Allen cleaned up....

Rey
06-11-2011, 11:05 PM
Didn't want to start a new thread but I've been thinking about the comparisons of Mario to ware playing the rush olb spot in wades 3-4.

Personally I don't see it. I think ware plays a more athletic style than Mario. Not to say that Mario isn't athletic but I just don't see him as the guy who speeds up the qbs rhythm because he's screaming off the edge.

Despite marios measurables I think he plays slower than what they would indicate.

I am excited about wade coming in but I'm worried about this move. Not just what it means for Mario but also the role if barwin/reed on the other side.

76Texan
06-11-2011, 11:55 PM
Didn't want to start a new thread but I've been thinking about the comparisons of Mario to ware playing the rush olb spot in wades 3-4.

Personally I don't see it. I think ware plays a more athletic style than Mario. Not to say that Mario isn't athletic but I just don't see him as the guy who speeds up the qbs rhythm because he's screaming off the edge.

Despite marios measurables I think he plays slower than what they would indicate.

I am excited about wade coming in but I'm worried about this move. Not just what it means for Mario but also the role if barwin/reed on the other side.

The Mario I saw in the first 8 games of the season will be the guy I take as a franchise player, not Ware.

I'm not concerned about his occasional drop into the curl/flat area.
I'm not concerned about the opponent running Mario's way either.

If there's anything that would make me hesitate, it would be his health issue.

wolf123
06-12-2011, 12:53 AM
The Mario I saw in the first 8 games of the season will be the guy I take as a franchise player, not Ware.

I'm not concerned about his occasional drop into the curl/flat area.
I'm not concerned about the opponent running Mario's way either.

If there's anything that would make me hesitate, it would be his health issue.

Good Post!

steelbtexan
06-12-2011, 01:02 AM
:goodpost:Good Post!

MW needs to stay healthy. When is the last season MW has been healthy for a full season.

He also needs to stop taking plays off. If he wants to play at the level Ware does. How well MW plays will relate directly to how much work he's willing to put in.

So far his college/pro career says he will have trouble living up to the hype. It's on MW to prove his detractors wrong.

Rey
06-12-2011, 01:14 AM
The Mario I saw in the first 8 games of the season will be the guy I take as a franchise player, not Ware.

I'm not concerned about his occasional drop into the curl/flat area.
I'm not concerned about the opponent running Mario's way either.

If there's anything that would make me hesitate, it would be his health issue.

Considering all factors I think it'd be a tough call to make.

But I really wasn't trying to say ware over Mario. I'm just worried about Mario being consistent all year and I'm also worried about barwin and reed on the other side.

76Texan
06-12-2011, 01:46 AM
Considering all factors I think it'd be a tough call to make.

But I really wasn't trying to say ware over Mario. I'm just worried about Mario being consistent all year and I'm also worried about barwin and reed on the other side.

Injury is always a big part of a player's career.
It's never fair to judge a player's ability when he isn't above 90%.
At the same time, a player can't help the team from the tub.
And if he's in the tub, he can't be a franchise player.

Barwin's injury is also a concern; other than that, I think he's ready to take the next step to show whether he can be a legit starter that can make some difference.

Reed, I love his lunch-pail workmanlike attitude.
Supposedly, he has some time to improve his skills.
I would be just happy to see him take turn wearing down the OT.

This front 7 (and the rest of the guys in the rotation) has a chance to be very good.

Quite a few of us love Watt; I agree.
I think he can be very good.

powerfuldragon
06-12-2011, 02:45 AM
this thread is full of energy that i avoid. take that how you think it means.

DocBar
06-12-2011, 03:14 AM
I agree... I'll say this, also, if we had another Antonio Smith on the D-line instead of Mario Williams, we'd be better against the run and QBs would have less time to throw the ball.How can you possibly ascertain that? If you had 2 Smiths. you'd have the same sack production as 1 Mario and hopefully be able to contain the run and give DC's some headaches. That statement is just your emotions taking over.

dalemurphy
06-12-2011, 11:52 PM
How can you possibly ascertain that? If you had 2 Smiths. you'd have the same sack production as 1 Mario and hopefully be able to contain the run and give DC's some headaches. That statement is just your emotions taking over.


Antonio had an excellent season. He was much better than Mario in 2010. It's not an emotional statement but an honest assessment of the 2010 season. By the way, Antonio led the entire NFL in QB hits.

TEXANRED
06-13-2011, 12:16 AM
Antonio had an excellent season. He was much better than Mario in 2010. It's not an emotional statement but an honest assessment of the 2010 season. By the way, Antonio led the entire NFL in QB hits.

Yeah and personal penalties too I'm sure.

I don't drink the Smith Kool-aid. He wasn't anything special in Arizona and isn't anything special in Houston even though he is playing opposite one of the best DE's in the league.

Mario still had 9 sacks to Smith's 4 playing three less games and playing with only one good leg.

I'm sorry, I don't get it. I watch the games too and I see a guy in Smith who keeps showing up to the party late.

GP
06-13-2011, 12:30 AM
I haven't read a single post in this multi-page thread...

But I'm betting that dale has caught a lot of heat for this thread.

Someone tell me if it's been enjoyable or a "get your popcorn" thread. I'm betting on it being the latter, but I could be wrong too. It's been rather civil on the boards despite the tension from the lockout drama.

My opinion is this: Bob will never trade Mario. He'll retire with the Texans. So all we can do is rally behind him and root for him. If he goes off in 2011, under Wade Phillips, it's going to be fun knowing that we at least will never get tagged with the old "Texans made a bad choice drafting Mario." I think we're already there, honestly, but a great 2011-and-beyond will really cement it.

Go Mario. Go Kubiak. Go Texans. I need a meaningful season for a change, even if it means retaining Kubiak beyond 2011 because of it. Whoop!

dalemurphy
06-13-2011, 01:13 AM
I haven't read a single post in this multi-page thread...

But I'm betting that dale has caught a lot of heat for this thread.

Someone tell me if it's been enjoyable or a "get your popcorn" thread. I'm betting on it being the latter, but I could be wrong too. It's been rather civil on the boards despite the tension from the lockout drama.

My opinion is this: Bob will never trade Mario. He'll retire with the Texans. So all we can do is rally behind him and root for him. If he goes off in 2011, under Wade Phillips, it's going to be fun knowing that we at least will never get tagged with the old "Texans made a bad choice drafting Mario." I think we're already there, honestly, but a great 2011-and-beyond will really cement it.

Go Mario. Go Kubiak. Go Texans. I need a meaningful season for a change, even if it means retaining Kubiak beyond 2011 because of it. Whoop!

I have never criticized the Mario Williams draft pick. Never! I've been critical of the player in '09 and '10. There is plenty of hope that he will have a great season in '11 and I'll certainly be rooting for it to happen.

Brandon420tx
06-13-2011, 01:34 AM
I hate when people bring up old threads because the context of the different times are soo different. I wish Rey had started a new thread, it took me 4 posts on page 1 to notice the date

TEXANRED
06-13-2011, 10:08 AM
I hate when people bring up old threads because the context of the different times are soo different. I wish Rey had started a new thread, it took me 4 posts on page 1 to notice the date

I don't mind so long as it's not a "Hewhoknowshesuxbabyelephantballs" thread cus I am embarrassed of my defending it. Other than that it's entertaining to see where we stood at that moment in time.

DocBar
06-13-2011, 06:12 PM
Antonio had an excellent season. He was much better than Mario in 2010. It's not an emotional statement but an honest assessment of the 2010 season. By the way, Antonio led the entire NFL in QB hits.

I agree that Smith had a good season for us, but I just don't buy into the idea that he's better than MW. I've been plenty critical of MW on here, also.

Rey
06-13-2011, 06:27 PM
I agree that Smith had a good season for us, but I just don't buy into the idea that he's better than MW. I've been plenty critical of MW on here, also.

Smith is not better than Mario. He probably has been more relentless on some plays, but he is not more talented nor more productive...

EllisUnit
06-13-2011, 09:28 PM
i need to see more than 7 plays against 1 TEAM, to agree with this. Forst off who was Antonio lining up against, 2nd Mario was there before him on 3 of the plays, 4 this thread is retarded.

My next thread will be Video of my least favorite Texan: Meet Andre Johnson.

Jacoby jones clearly outplayed AJ all season long :kubepalm:

wolf123
06-13-2011, 09:30 PM
i need to see more than 7 plays against 1 TEAM, to agree with this. Forst off who was Antonio lining up against, 2nd Mario was there before him on 3 of the plays, 4 this thread is retarded.

My next thread will be Video of my least favorite Texan: Meet Andre Johnson.

Jacoby jones clearly outplayed AJ all season long :kubepalm:

:bravo:

dalemurphy
06-14-2011, 12:39 AM
Smith is not better than Mario. He probably has been more relentless on some plays, but he is not more talented nor more productive...

Smith was the better player on most plays last season. Mario was very good for much of the first month of the season. Smith was good throughout the season. I wasn't talking about potential. I'm talking production. And, for the 2010 season, Antonio Smith was the more productive DLman. Not to mention, I tend to root for high effort guys like Antonio over guys that are less consistent with their effort, like Mario has proven to be in college and in the NFL.

dalemurphy
06-14-2011, 12:42 AM
i need to see more than 7 plays against 1 TEAM, to agree with this. Forst off who was Antonio lining up against, 2nd Mario was there before him on 3 of the plays, 4 this thread is retarded.

My next thread will be Video of my least favorite Texan: Meet Andre Johnson.

Jacoby jones clearly outplayed AJ all season long :kubepalm:

Well, I'm not sure how that is my problem. Don't you get CBS? If you do and you are observant, you would've noticed that Antionio outplayed Mario most of last season. Your cute little analogy relating Jacoby Jones and Andre Johnson by comparison to Antonio and Mario illustrates that perhaps you don't pay attention to the games.

EllisUnit
06-14-2011, 10:04 PM
Well, I'm not sure how that is my problem. Don't you get CBS? If you do and you are observant, you would've noticed that Antionio outplayed Mario most of last season. Your cute little analogy relating Jacoby Jones and Andre Johnson by comparison to Antonio and Mario illustrates that perhaps you don't pay attention to the games.

I have every game on DVD thanks to DVR/DVD recorder. And all i saw on that clip was a FEW good plays against the chargers, nothing else. Mario did more hurt than Antonio did healthy.

TEXANRED
06-14-2011, 10:57 PM
Smith was the better player on most plays last season. Mario was very good for much of the first month of the season. Smith was good throughout the season. I wasn't talking about potential. I'm talking production. And, for the 2010 season, Antonio Smith was the more productive DLman. Not to mention, I tend to root for high effort guys like Antonio over guys that are less consistent with their effort, like Mario has proven to be in college and in the NFL.

I just don't see how you can keep saying a guy who didn't out produce Mario, even with Mario playing 3 less games and Mario had been playing hurt since training camp, out produced Mario?

Antonio Smith is an average middle of the road DE. He excels at the sound bite over Mario. I will give you that one.

wolf123
06-15-2011, 01:20 AM
Antonio also leads the texans in most bone headed plays each year.

HOU-TEX
06-15-2011, 10:11 AM
Antonio also leads the texans in most bone headed plays each year.

Without looking at stats, I'd put Pollard in front of Smith in bone-headed plays. I'm so happy I never got on the "knock the piss out of them" bandwagon. He was the worst DB we had this past season and considering our DB's, that's pretty bad.

infantrycak
06-15-2011, 12:15 PM
Antonio Smith is an average middle of the road DE.

I'd characterize Smith as a just short of pro-bowl DE but I agree the idea he is better than Mario is whack.