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J_R
11-08-2010, 09:00 PM
For fans who want Texans coach Gary Kubiak to be fired after the disappointing 4-4 start, it’s not going to happen.

“I think Gary’s doing a fine job,” owner Bob McNair said Monday night at the Texans’ Taste of the NFL event at Reliant Stadium. “Gary’s not the one missing tackles and dropping passes. The players are playing hard. We still have eight games to go, and four (two each against Jacksonville and Tennessee) are against teams in our division. So, I still have high hopes for the season.”

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7285574.html

wagonhed
11-08-2010, 09:04 PM
The HC will never be the one dropping passes and missing tackles. I guess that means the HC should be hired for life.

TexansFanatic
11-08-2010, 09:07 PM
McNair is quite the politician. Now is not the time to inject uncertainty.

If Kubiak loses five or more out of the next 8, he's gone.

Texecutioner
11-08-2010, 09:13 PM
Maybe we can find another group businessmen that can put a package together for another Houston team. Bob says F you fans, I'm making money!! Lol!!

Ah man, this is starting to feel like you're just busting your head against a wall over and over.

Lucky
11-08-2010, 09:19 PM
“If he was making bad decisions, if he wasn’t managing the team, and if the players weren’t playing hard, that would be cause for concern.”
It's a concern. On all three fronts.

“The good news is we’re 4-4, and we’re one game out of first place with half the season ahead of us.”
Look, I realize Kubiak's not going to be fired mid-season. But don't spew that loser crapola, Bob. There's nothing good about being .500. .500 sucks and it will always suck.

SheTexan
11-08-2010, 09:21 PM
I guess having tons of money makes ya a little delusional!!

gtexan02
11-08-2010, 09:21 PM
#1) There was less than zero chance that McNair would fire Kubiak at 4-4
#2) Given #1, why would McNair undermine Kubiak's confidence?

drewmar74
11-08-2010, 09:22 PM
#1) There was less than zero chance that McNair would fire Kubiak at 4-4
#2) Given #1, why would McNair undermine Kubiak's confidence?

Yeah. Pretty much.

None of what McNair said made me raise an eyebrow at all.

NitroGSXR
11-08-2010, 09:24 PM
I wish a bank would lend me 1.1 billion tomorrow. I have no problem firing inepitude no matter how much of a buddy they are.

stingray
11-08-2010, 09:24 PM
Ok... fine. He ain't getting one cent from me until he fires this bum. I am not going to a single game and I will not buy any more merchandise. I hope more people will do the same. Because one person won't make a difference but thousands will. Hitting his pocket book is the only way to get his attention.

b0ng
11-08-2010, 09:28 PM
Is that the dreaded "vote of confidence"?

TexansFight
11-08-2010, 09:29 PM
Well that ****ing seals it for me. McNair just told the fans he does not give a damn about winning. Kubiak and Smith are the luckiest SOBs in the NFL. They get to operate in a bubble without a shred of urgency and achieve mediocre results that teams committed to WINNING wouldn't stand for.

How the hell did Bob McNair become a billionaire in the first place with his devotion to mediocrity. Seriously, this guy could not have been this passive and devoid of passion or energy in making his fortune. From what I know, he is a self made man and not an heir to a fortune.

Is Bob McNair ****ing stupid, cheap, content or the ultimate con artist. I haven't decided yet. I hate Bud Adams with a passion for stealing Houston's REAL NFL TEAM the Houston Oilers from us. That being said, Bottom Line Bud was a MUCH BETTER owner than this clown McNair.

We will NEVER WIN with this owner. We might get lucky and make the playoffs every decade but we will never be a consistent winner in this league with this ***** running the team.

It makes me question my financial devotion to a team that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on in PSLs and a large chunk of my time during the fall. **** McNair and his bull**** franchise. Stop sending me emails trying to buy merchandise when your team is a complete failure.

JB
11-08-2010, 09:30 PM
It's a concern. On all three fronts.


Look, I realize Kubiak's not going to be fired mid-season. But don't spew that loser crapola, Bob. There's nothing good about being .500. .500 sucks and it will always suck.

#1) There was less than zero chance that McNair would fire Kubiak at 4-4
#2) Given #1, why would McNair undermine Kubiak's confidence?

Exactly! What could be the possible gain if McNair were to come out and proclaim that heads were going to roll?

thegr8fan
11-08-2010, 09:32 PM
Prior to today Jerrah Jones was perfectly happy with Wade Phillips. He said so several times, there would be no point in changing things and it wouldn't be helpfull.

Then today..............well, Wade is looking for a new place to work.

What would anyone expect McNair to say, really? Of course his going to talk the talk. Especially with his new 2 yr contract extension he just game Kubiak.

You don't really expect an owner to admit the HE made a mistake with that extension, do you? well do you?

Hookem Horns
11-08-2010, 09:38 PM
You don't really expect an owner to admit the HE made a mistake with that extension, do you? well do you?

http://www.stoskel.com/img/~www.stoskel.com/My_Images/troy-polamalu-hair-490x325.jpg

No

Mr. White
11-08-2010, 09:38 PM
Is that the dreaded "vote of confidence"?

I'm not sure, but I know Bob doesn't say anything negative during the season.

He swore up and down in 06 that David Carr was here to stay and we all know how that worked out.

He never said an unkind word about Casserly and I'm pretty sure he never called out Capers either.

I don't even need to read the article. I know what he says midseason doesn't mean ****.

Texecutioner
11-08-2010, 09:38 PM
Exactly! What could be the possible gain if McNair were to come out and proclaim that heads were going to roll?

It might tell us angry fans that he is committed to winning when we've been devoted to this team for 9 years now and 5 years into this regime and we haven't seen an ounce of success from it. When you're team is doing this in year 5 of a failed regime and you say that you're coach is doing great, that's a slap in the face to me. It comes off arrogant as if Bob thinks the Houston fans will support any product he throws out there.

OzzO
11-08-2010, 09:39 PM
.... I hate Bud Adams with a passion for stealing Houston's REAL NFL TEAM the Houston Oilers from us. That being said, Bottom Line Bud was a MUCH BETTER owner than this clown McNair......

<shivers> now that's just crazy talk there. Please don't bring back jabba the toupe.

b0ng
11-08-2010, 09:45 PM
It might tell us angry fans that he is committed to winning when we've been devoted to this team for 9 years now and 5 years into this regime and we haven't seen an ounce of success from it. When you're team is doing this in year 5 of a failed regime and you say that you're coach is doing great, that's a slap in the face to me. It comes off arrogant as if Bob thinks the Houston fans will support any product he throws out there.

Owner says that he's fine with the team while they are doing badly. Fans get angry on message boards. Film at 11.

You're wanting Bob to say things that almost every owner in the league (Including the ever hated Jerruh) wouldn't say mid season. It's not Bobs job to undermine the coach while he's in the middle of a season, it's his job to hold that coach's feet to the fire when the time is appropriate to not disrupt the operations of the team. If the team is .500, nobody is going to get fired in week 9 or week 10. I'll pay a lot more attention to what Bob says when he actually says things that will happen with the organization. So far, he really has yet to do that. Capers, Carr, Casserly, all those guys were pretty much talked up by Bob until he axed them.

Lucky
11-08-2010, 09:47 PM
Exactly! What could be the possible gain if McNair were to come out and proclaim that heads were going to roll?
Well, the theory was that the players love Kubiak and played their collective ass off for his job the last 4 games of 09. If true, tell the players it's win or Gary's head goes on the chopping block. If they really love Kubiak, maybe they'll play for his job again? What is there to lose?

Wolf
11-08-2010, 09:49 PM
The Texans keep it in the house and it is just a filtering down

Bob isn't going to call out Kubiak or Smith
Kubiak isn't going to call out Bush or Dennison or any players

And last but not least I don't recall any player calling out any specific player.. (besides Robinson calling out Carr and one or two others but that was before Kubiak)

JB
11-08-2010, 09:50 PM
Well that ****ing seals it for me. McNair just told the fans he does not give a damn about winning. Kubiak and Smith are the luckiest SOBs in the NFL. They get to operate in a bubble without a shred of urgency and achieve mediocre results that teams committed to WINNING wouldn't stand for.

How the hell did Bob McNair become a billionaire in the first place with his devotion to mediocrity. Seriously, this guy could not have been this passive and devoid of passion or energy in making his fortune. From what I know, he is a self made man and not an heir to a fortune.

Is Bob McNair ****ing stupid, cheap, content or the ultimate con artist. I haven't decided yet. I hate Bud Adams with a passion for stealing Houston's REAL NFL TEAM the Houston Oilers from us. That being said, Bottom Line Bud was a MUCH BETTER owner than this clown McNair.
We will NEVER WIN with this owner. We might get lucky and make the playoffs every decade but we will never be a consistent winner in this league with this ***** running the team.

It makes me question my financial devotion to a team that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on in PSLs and a large chunk of my time during the fall. **** McNair and his bull**** franchise. Stop sending me emails trying to buy merchandise when your team is a complete failure.

May just be the most ignorant comment I have ever read by anybody on any subject.

Wolf
11-08-2010, 09:51 PM
Well, the theory was that the players love Kubiak and played their collective ass off for his job the last 4 games of 09. If true, tell the players it's win or Gary's head goes on the chopping block. If they really love Kubiak, maybe they'll play for his job again? What is there to lose?

as an article I read today stated, so "Gary can hold his w-2 up like it is the Lombardi trophy "

:joker:

I couldn't help but laugh when I read it

Texan4Ever
11-08-2010, 09:51 PM
I don't blame McNair for what he said, however, he could have said things differently. After all, we can't expect him to come out and say Kubiak sucks and he better look for a new job opening cause' I'm gonna can his butt!

McNair is NOT Jerry Jones + Al Davis so let's see how the season plays out and I'm sure if we end up 4-12 Kubiak well be gone.

Wolf
11-08-2010, 09:52 PM
May just be the most ignorant comment I have ever read by anybody on any subject.

well don't do a search history then .. been some interesting comments over the years

TexansFight
11-08-2010, 09:54 PM
May just be the most ignorant comment I have ever read by anybody on any subject.

Really, I grew up with a team that made the playoffs for SEVEN STRAIGHT YEARS. Man, I miss the late 80s-early 90s Oilers teams that I grew up with. The Oilers were my FIRST LOVE. I still pine for my team after all these years. I hoe Bud Adams burns in Hell for taking Houston's legitimate NFL team away from us.

That being said, Bud fielded PLAYOFF teams and wasn't afraid to fire mediocre coaches. That bumbling fatass got it more than the moron we have now.

scourge
11-08-2010, 09:55 PM
May just be the most ignorant comment I have ever read by anybody on any subject.

:goodpost:

Now run and tell that, homeboy!

Texecutioner
11-08-2010, 09:55 PM
Owner says that he's fine with the team while they are doing badly. Fans get angry on message boards. Film at 11.

You're wanting Bob to say things that almost every owner in the league (Including the ever hated Jerruh) wouldn't say mid season. It's not Bobs job to undermine the coach while he's in the middle of a season, it's his job to hold that coach's feet to the fire when the time is appropriate to not disrupt the operations of the team. If the team is .500, nobody is going to get fired in week 9 or week 10. I'll pay a lot more attention to what Bob says when he actually says things that will happen with the organization. So far, he really has yet to do that. Capers, Carr, Casserly, all those guys were pretty much talked up by Bob until he axed them.

If we weren't talking about an owner that has shown to have way to much loyalty than I'd buy a lot more into what you're stance is Bong. But with Bob, my impression has grown of him as a guy that just wants to get his profits and winning is a just a 2nd perk for him as an owner and if it happens then great. If not, oh well we had fun any way. There are certain owners around the league that will always have that mentality where they're fine with being slightly above average for the most part and they're only concerned with making a lot of moves when they're at rock bottom. It wasn't until the Texans finally hit rock bottom when they decided to fire Capers and then get rid of Carr the next year after that.

Bob has had a great thing going since he brought this franchise here with the support that the fan base has given him, and at some point he's going to realize that he's taken a lot of it for granted if he doesn't do something this off season. Kubiak shouldn't have had an extension and should have been axed last season. He got an extension and will most likely coach here next year and Bob will wait until this team completely gives up again and hits rock bottom. I don't have any confidence that Bob Mcnair is committed to building a dynasty based off of his words and more importantly his actions as an NFL owner. I think he's perfectly fine with being competitive and relevant, but anything more than that which would require extra money to spend or personal changes in management is something that he just doesn't want to deal with until he absolutely has to. Now I could be wrong about all of this, but it's my opinion based off of what I've perceived over the last 9 years. It sucks to have this perception and only Bob can change that perception.

JB
11-08-2010, 09:55 PM
well don't do a search history then .. been some interesting comments over the years

Yeah I know. But tonight, with my curmudgeonly memory, that one takes the cake. I watched Fud screw the fans over for 36+ years with nary a concern about the fans.

Hervoyel
11-08-2010, 10:12 PM
I'm not sure, but I know Bob doesn't say anything negative during the season.

He swore up and down in 06 that David Carr was here to stay and we all know how that worked out.

He never said an unkind word about Casserly and I'm pretty sure he never called out Capers either.

I don't even need to read the article. I know what he says midseason doesn't mean ****.

This is it. Nothing to see here, move along.

Bob is incapable of saying anything other than something along these lines mid-season while sitting "proudly" at 4-4. In a screwed up way he's right too. I'm frustrated by years of this but Bob looks at the seasons one at a time (and there's a case for that I admit) so right now he's still waiting for half his data to arrive before he even thinks about being displeased with anyone on his payroll.

It's just the way this guy works. I find it frustrating but I have to accept it because he couldn't care less what I think.

It's not even worth reading about. It's like Gary's weekly press conferences. There's nothing in there so why bother listening. Bob says this every year about this time.

GuerillaBlack
11-08-2010, 10:17 PM
People shouldn't be surprised by this. The owner of an NFL team is not going to throw the coach under the bus midseason. This is just BS speak, I hope.

Wolf
11-08-2010, 10:21 PM
herv made me think and look this up from JM last year
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/12/some_believe_kubiak_should_not_1.html

I don't think McNair will fire Kubiak unless they bottom out. He said last week change is disruptive and he thinks they have a better chance of being real good in 2010 with Kubiak than with a new coach. He said he would consider the circumstances of the season, like injuries, opponents, etc.



I agree with some of the first 2 items of that(from last year) .. however maybe it is my impatience growing(well I think it is that) , but I am beginning to hate that we (the Texans) look at a season, and go .." holy ****.. we are playing the the Jets or say NFC East (for example) this year.. (or the AFC South was tough) "

I guess I am waiting for the day when the Texans opponents look at the schedule and say"holy ****, it is the Texans "

JB
11-08-2010, 10:29 PM
herv made me think and look this up from JM last year
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/12/some_believe_kubiak_should_not_1.html



I agree with some of the first 2 items of that(from last year) .. however maybe it is my impatience growing(well I think it is that) , but I am beginning to hate that we (the Texans) look at a season, and go .." holy ****.. we are playing the the Jets or say NFC East (for example) this year.. (or the AFC South was tough) "

I guess I am waiting for the day when the Texans opponents look at the schedule and say"holy ****, it is the Texans "

Seems like this is being said for the last couple of years. And the reply is we are so close. Perhaps it will come true one of these days...

*heads out to help Dorothy master the Red Shoes*

steelbtexan
11-08-2010, 10:30 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7285574.html

Yeah Uncle BoB

He's doing a great job of making $$$$$$ for you.

I guess if that's your goal then mediocrity land is a great place to live.

Thorn
11-08-2010, 10:34 PM
This is nothing to be concerned about no matter which side of the Kubiak fence you are on. That's just owner talk, just like politicians speak political talk. He's not going to say anything of importance or truthfullness until he has to.

jaayteetx
11-08-2010, 10:35 PM
Geez guys/gals, what do you EXPECT him to say? "Hi folks, glad you could come on out, what you say? How is Coach Kubiak doing? Well, to be honest, his questionable play calling and lack of accountability has me questioning my very sanity for hiring him but since I just extended him and we're still very much in contention, not to mention I have a full house every Sunday anyway, well, I think I'm just gonna ride this one out and see if we can put some lipstick on this pig. Enjoy your evening, take care now!"

Goatcheese
11-08-2010, 10:49 PM
I think Kubiak's coaching on the field has been 90% good, 9% Hmm and 1% WHY GOD!? WHY?

His personnel decisions just make my eye start twitching like a psychopath in a typical tv trope. If he's going to insist on sticking with FoKers then he needs some new friends, because his inner circle of trust is failing him big time.

Texan_Bill
11-08-2010, 10:54 PM
Well, the theory was that the players love Kubiak and played their collective ass off for his job the last 4 games of 09. If true, tell the players it's win or Gary's head goes on the chopping block. If they really love Kubiak, maybe they'll play for his job again? What is there to lose?

4-4 this season!!

This is not an indictment of the current regime, nor the current players or FO.........


It's an indictment of all three.

TexansFanatic
11-08-2010, 10:55 PM
May just be the most ignorant comment I have ever read by anybody on any subject.

Yeah, offering even a backhanded compliment to Bud Adams is utterly repugnant.

GuerillaBlack
11-08-2010, 10:58 PM
herv made me think and look this up from JM last year
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/12/some_believe_kubiak_should_not_1.html



I agree with some of the first 2 items of that(from last year) .. however maybe it is my impatience growing(well I think it is that) , but I am beginning to hate that we (the Texans) look at a season, and go .." holy ****.. we are playing the the Jets or say NFC East (for example) this year.. (or the AFC South was tough) "

I guess I am waiting for the day when the Texans opponents look at the schedule and say"holy ****, it is the Texans "

They started to this year, but of course that stopped.

Texan_Bill
11-08-2010, 11:03 PM
May just be the most ignorant comment I have ever read by anybody on any subject.

Say it with me Lee..... "Just let it go.....Just let it go........... Just let it go!!!!!!"

NitroGSXR
11-08-2010, 11:08 PM
This is it. Nothing to see here, move along.

Bob is incapable of saying anything other than something along these lines mid-season while sitting "proudly" at 4-4. In a screwed up way he's right too. I'm frustrated by years of this but Bob looks at the seasons one at a time (and there's a case for that I admit) so right now he's still waiting for half his data to arrive before he even thinks about being displeased with anyone on his payroll.

It's just the way this guy works. I find it frustrating but I have to accept it because he couldn't care less what I think.

It's not even worth reading about. It's like Gary's weekly press conferences. There's nothing in there so why bother listening. Bob says this every year about this time.

Well sure I get that. It's why I'm firmly on the "Fire McNair" bandwagon. Kubiak's got nothing to do with it. I'd very much like for Cal to get the opportunity to run things his way. I think he better understands what it's going to take to be a winner. I'm just talking out of my ass. I know nothing of Cal other than he seems to be a heckuva lot more pumped up on the sidelines than the Bob-ster.

TexansSeminole
11-08-2010, 11:11 PM
This is it. Nothing to see here, move along.

Bob is incapable of saying anything other than something along these lines mid-season while sitting "proudly" at 4-4. In a screwed up way he's right too. I'm frustrated by years of this but Bob looks at the seasons one at a time (and there's a case for that I admit) so right now he's still waiting for half his data to arrive before he even thinks about being displeased with anyone on his payroll.

It's just the way this guy works. I find it frustrating but I have to accept it because he couldn't care less what I think.

It's not even worth reading about. It's like Gary's weekly press conferences. There's nothing in there so why bother listening. Bob says this every year about this time.

Agree 100% with Herv. This is a non-story for me, I fully expect him to say this.

However, McNair is right that it's almost all about these division games. We still have four left. I'm just not confident we can win all of those games, or even 3 of 4. The problem is that if we don't win atleast 3 of 4, we have to sweep Philly, Denver, Baltimore, and the NY(J) to sniff the wild card this year. 9-7 won't cut it.

Hagar
11-08-2010, 11:13 PM
For fans who want Texans coach Gary Kubiak to be fired after the disappointing 4-4 start, it’s not going to happen.

“I think Gary’s doing a fine job,” owner Bob McNair said Monday night at the Texans’ Taste of the NFL event at Reliant Stadium. “Gary’s not the one missing tackles and dropping passes. The players are playing hard. We still have eight games to go, and four (two each against Jacksonville and Tennessee) are against teams in our division. So, I still have high hopes for the season.”

When ownership has to come out in support of a Head Coach, its a coffin nail. Trust me, its the beginning of the end.

Texan_Bill
11-08-2010, 11:14 PM
:rolleyes:

houstonspartan
11-08-2010, 11:47 PM
A quiz.

Question: How many times over the last few weeks did Jerry Jones tell everyone that he would not fire Wade Phillips?

Answer: Too many to count.

Come on, guys. There is no reason to get up in arms about something Bob McNair says in the middle of the season.

I am not calling Jerry Jones a liar. Nor am I calling Bob McNair one. I am simply saying that bosses can change their minds. It happens.

Kubiak is still on a major hot seat.

And he knows it.

Corrosion
11-09-2010, 12:17 AM
Well that ****ing seals it for me. McNair just told the fans he does not give a damn about winning. Kubiak and Smith are the luckiest SOBs in the NFL. They get to operate in a bubble without a shred of urgency and achieve mediocre results that teams committed to WINNING wouldn't stand for.

How the hell did Bob McNair become a billionaire in the first place with his devotion to mediocrity. Seriously, this guy could not have been this passive and devoid of passion or energy in making his fortune. From what I know, he is a self made man and not an heir to a fortune.

Is Bob McNair ****ing stupid, cheap, content or the ultimate con artist. I haven't decided yet. I hate Bud Adams with a passion for stealing Houston's REAL NFL TEAM the Houston Oilers from us. That being said, Bottom Line Bud was a MUCH BETTER owner than this clown McNair.

We will NEVER WIN with this owner. We might get lucky and make the playoffs every decade but we will never be a consistent winner in this league with this ***** running the team.

It makes me question my financial devotion to a team that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on in PSLs and a large chunk of my time during the fall. **** McNair and his bull**** franchise. Stop sending me emails trying to buy merchandise when your team is a complete failure.

Please put the crack pipe down .... no one in their right mind would say that. :smiliepalm:


See ya at the next home game ....

TheMatrix31
11-09-2010, 12:47 AM
The reactions to McNair's statement are ridiculous, and I'll leave it at that.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 01:33 AM
I really don't think McNair is that bad. I think his strategy is a winning one, actually. That is, once we find the right coach. It's not convenient or pleasant to keep coaches around for 4-5 years when they suck, but he is using the extremely successful model of franchises like the Steelers and Colts. If/when we find the right coach, the model will pay dividends. It's higher risk and higher reward, I would say.

Right now we are experiencing the risk part because we have had to deal with Kubes in the 4th and 5th year to be absolutely sure he is not the HC of the future. And of course it's possible the next HC we get won't be the right one... and the next one. It happens, but usually only with a bad stroke of luck. I prefer to think our luck with HCs is due for a change.

wagonhed
11-09-2010, 01:34 AM
The reactions to McNair's statement are ridiculous, and I'll leave it at that.

Agree, as I have with most of what you've said since Sunday.

fiasco west
11-09-2010, 01:57 AM
Yep complete non-story.

Wasn't Jerruh saying similar things about not firing a coach mid-season? Texans are still very much in this thing any ways, who knows? They could win every game from here on out (LOL!) so what else is he supposed to say?

IDEXAN
11-09-2010, 06:25 AM
When Kubiak cut the "vet" DBs and said the Texans were "going young"
in the Def-Backfield at the beginning of the season, it seems pretty apparent that he already had the assurances of McNair that his job was secure for atleast another year or 2, don't you think ?

False Start
11-09-2010, 07:58 AM
I'm really hoping that this is McNair not wanting to stir up any controversy during the season. If this how he really feels, I think Bob needs to have his head checked. :crazy:

Blake
11-09-2010, 08:16 AM
I think its funny that he calls out the players for missing tackles and dropping passes.

I dont expect him to say Kubiak is on the hot-seat. But I would have said that we need to perform better all the way around to get where we want to be at the end of this season.

And leave it at that.

Dutchrudder
11-09-2010, 08:36 AM
In case it hasn't been said yet...

FINE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH!

HOU-TEX
11-09-2010, 08:47 AM
Bleh

MightyTExan
11-09-2010, 08:53 AM
When Kubiak cut the "vet" DBs and said the Texans were "going young"
in the Def-Backfield at the beginning of the season, it seems pretty apparent that he already had the assurances of McNair that his job was secure for atleast another year or 2, don't you think ?

This is what makes me believe Kubes is not interested in winning this season. He's still "building" the team. He may have an extension, but he should have realized that he is in a "lame duck" position and should have pulled out all the stops (FA's) to try and win this season.

drewmar74
11-09-2010, 09:04 AM
When Kubiak cut the "vet" DBs and said the Texans were "going young"
in the Def-Backfield at the beginning of the season, it seems pretty apparent that he already had the assurances of McNair that his job was secure for atleast another year or 2, don't you think ?

:thinking:

Interesting theory and it would be a dangerous gamble, IMO.

El Tejano
11-09-2010, 09:13 AM
Well, the theory was that the players love Kubiak and played their collective ass off for his job the last 4 games of 09. If true, tell the players it's win or Gary's head goes on the chopping block. If they really love Kubiak, maybe they'll play for his job again? What is there to lose?

Problem is, and if you look at the tape of the end of the game you may agree with me, it looks as if Kubiak lost his players' confidence on Sunday.

Ole Miss Texan
11-09-2010, 09:18 AM
LOL at these posts.

infantrycak
11-09-2010, 09:32 AM
This is what makes me believe Kubes is not interested in winning this season.

This is the kind of stuff that makes coaching discussions useless. It's asinine to think any coach or McNair isn't interested in winning. Break down poor decisions. yada yada but this get in their head and start ascribing indifference, arrogance, whatever is just frustration trying to find an outlet.

SheTexan
11-09-2010, 09:39 AM
LOL at these posts.


LOL at your avitar!! FYI!! Some OLD ladies LOVE the game of football as much as you DUDES!!:doot:

steelbtexan
11-09-2010, 09:48 AM
McNair is

1.Interested in making $$$$.
2. Winning if it can happen within his self imposed budget.
3.Winning with a certian type of player. (marketable)

Smithiak are doing a fine job if mediodrity is OK with McNair.

Lets look at Smithiaks' 1st rd draft record and keep in mind that McNair isn't giving them the resources to pick up top tier FA's.

2006 Mario- good pick, will never be a leader
2007 OkOye- A bust is a bust in any language/country
2008 Brown- An average LT, he looks like an all star compared to all of the other LT's in franchise history
2009 Cushing- Great player when he's on the juice
2010 Jackson- Appears to be in the OkOye mold.

Is it any wonder why this team has regressed? IMHO

HOU-TEX
11-09-2010, 10:06 AM
This is the kind of stuff that makes coaching discussions useless. It's asinine to think any coach or McNair isn't interested in winning. Break down poor decisions. yada yada but this get in their head and start ascribing indifference, arrogance, whatever is just frustration trying to find an outlet.

McNair is

1.Interested in making $$$$.
2. Winning if it can happen within his self imposed budget.
3.Winning with a certian type of player. (marketable)

Smithiak are doing a fine job if mediodrity is OK with McNair.

Lets look at Smithiaks' 1st rd draft record and keep in mind that McNair isn't giving them the resources to pick up top tier FA's.

2006 Mario- good pick, will never be a leader
2007 OkOye- A bust is a bust in any language/country
2008 Brown- An average LT, he looks like an all star compared to all of the other LT's in franchise history
2009 Cushing- Great player when he's on the juice
2010 Jackson- Appears to be in the OkOye mold.

Is it any wonder why this team has regressed? IMHO

See I-Cak's post

El Tejano
11-09-2010, 10:16 AM
“[QUOTE]We haven’t missed the playoffs,” McNair said.
That's only because in order to miss something you have to have had it before.

“I don’t know why they’re upset at this point. … We’ve got a long way to go.

This is what everyone is talking about. That sense of no urgency just kills me as a fan.

Double Barrel
11-09-2010, 10:35 AM
When ownership has to come out in support of a Head Coach, its a coffin nail. Trust me, its the beginning of the end.

Just like there is "coach speak", there is also "owner speak". And like Hagar mentioned, when an owner has to publicly support his head coach with bland rah rah rhetoric, it's a sign that he is very well aware that something ain't right.

If McNair was saying this stuff in the off-season and we missed the playoffs again, I'd certainly understand the fan anger. But mid-season, it should be no surprise to anyone that's watched the NFL for any length of time to hear an owner spew such "words of support" for a coach of a floundering team.

While I'd like to hear some passion in his words just like most of y'all, I'm not going to interpret what he's saying right now because we should know that McNair is not that kind of owner after 8+ seasons. It's not his style, not in his demeanor, and God only knows what he's really thinking right now.

And to be quite honest, McNair is the president of the Sunshine Club, so I say we just let the season play out and deal with the repercussions when the dust settles.

infantrycak
11-09-2010, 10:52 AM
And to be quite honest, McNair is the president of the Sunshine Club, so I say we just let the season play out and deal with the repercussions when the dust settles.

And I'll predict now, even if they go 8-8 Kubiak stays and then we get 8 months of threads about it.

Double Barrel
11-09-2010, 10:57 AM
And I'll predict now, even if they go 8-8 Kubiak stays and then we get 8 months of threads about it.

Of that I have very little doubt. I would be shocked if Kubiak is gone without a monumental letdown over the next 8 games. 8-8 is reason to get a new DC, not get a new head coach...for this franchise, at least.

And with a potential lock-out and the possibility of no spring practices, the last thing McNair is going to do is rock the boat. Water could get in, and water is bad for the Guccis. ;)

awtysst
11-09-2010, 11:02 AM
And here is the important thing: if McNair wanted to get rid of Kubiak right now, who would he replace him with? Frank Bush? Yeah, that defense has really been stellar hasn't it? Rick Dennison? He has not even been calling the plays. He isn't ready to be a head coach. Bill Kollar? Pass. His D line has not exactly been intimidating. Ray Rhodes? PASS.

There is nobody on the team who is remotely ready or in position to be a head coach.

CloakNNNdagger
11-09-2010, 11:04 AM
http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/images/articles/SBJ200807210101-03.jpg

Bob, I told you, you could do it! I told you you could be just like me!

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dqo2u1btH2Ns/x160.jpg

Let's get one thing straight, bud. I'm no Jerry Jones! I'm my own man. I have my own personality disorder!

[satire]

Norg
11-09-2010, 11:05 AM
I think we will do good these next 8 games and compete

Kubes will deff stay esp since the lockout and we will get a new DC and a few other coaches

MightyTExan
11-09-2010, 11:10 AM
This is the kind of stuff that makes coaching discussions useless. It's asinine to think any coach or McNair isn't interested in winning. Break down poor decisions. yada yada but this get in their head and start ascribing indifference, arrogance, whatever is just frustration trying to find an outlet.

So having an inexperienced secondary means you want to win instead of signing an at least halfway-decent FA that was available? When the hot seat is on a coach they usually make FA moves or coaching moves to improve the team, i.e. Saints, Jets, Vikes. Since the Texans have not done that in a year when everyone is expecting playoffs, I can only conclude that playoffs are not really on Kubiaks agenda for this season.

infantrycak
11-09-2010, 11:14 AM
So having an inexperienced secondary means you want to win instead of signing an at least halfway-decent FA that was available? When the hot seat is on a coach they usually make FA moves or coaching moves to improve the team, i.e. Saints, Jets, Vikes. Since the Texans have not done that in a year when everyone is expecting playoffs, I can only conclude that playoffs are not really on Kubiaks agenda for this season.

Ever heard the saying it's better to drink bourbon than vodka, that way people think you are drunk instead of stupid? The result is the same. Only the perception is different. Fine call Kubiak and Smith stupid for not doing something about the secondary but I still think it is asinine to make that into they don't care.

Norg
11-09-2010, 11:16 AM
Kubes seems like he cares of course he cares his job is on the line

MightyTExan
11-09-2010, 11:24 AM
Ever heard the saying it's better to drink bourbon than vodka, that way people think you are drunk instead of stupid? The result is the same. Only the perception is different. Fine call Kubiak and Smith stupid for not doing something about the secondary but I still think it is asinine to make that into they don't care.

I never said that they don't care. I said it looks like winning isn't as much a priority as building the team, pretty much the same as the first season he arrived. The perception I get is Kubiak feels no sense of urgency.

lostboy
11-09-2010, 11:24 AM
This is the kind of stuff that makes coaching discussions useless. It's asinine to think any coach or McNair isn't interested in winning. Break down poor decisions. yada yada but this get in their head and start ascribing indifference, arrogance, whatever is just frustration trying to find an outlet.


Kubes said himself it's all about being balanced... in that regard I have to agree with McNair... Kubes is going a fine job @ 4 and 4.

Second Honeymoon
11-09-2010, 11:27 AM
The dreaded vote of confidence

Sad thing is that McNair may actually believe that

Is .500 fine with him?
Is 32nd rank defense fine with him?

And oh yeah, stop having George and Barbara Bush coming to the games. George is a great American but they are to the Texans as Kryptonite is to Superman.

Luv ya George, but watch the games at your palacial pad in River Oaks

GuerillaBlack
11-09-2010, 11:35 AM
When Kubiak cut the "vet" DBs and said the Texans were "going young"
in the Def-Backfield at the beginning of the season, it seems pretty apparent that he already had the assurances of McNair that his job was secure for atleast another year or 2, don't you think ?

Who knows what Kubiak could have told McNair though. Maybe he thought the CBs would be ready this defense (and the whole defense actually).

houstonspartan
11-09-2010, 11:38 AM
The dreaded vote of confidence




Exactly. Jerry Jones had been praising Wade Phillips up and down the last few weeks, and finally admitted that he was in denial.

At this point, McNair's comments mean zilch.

CloakNNNdagger
11-09-2010, 11:55 AM
I never said that they don't care. I said it looks like winning isn't as much a priority as building the team, pretty much the same as the first season he arrived. The perception I get is Kubiak feels no sense of urgency.

Most coaches in this position would feel that their job would be in jeopardy. Perception of how Kubiak responds certainly could be interpretted as not overtly showing a sense of urgency. But this could also be explained by the signals coming down from the top. I know that McNair would rather win than lose. But the "sense of urgency" is not going to be the deciding factor as long as the money keeps rolling in. While on the other hand, a typical fan's sense of urgency is rightfully felt as their wallets shrink year by year in anticipation of what every other team's fans have already the joy of experiencing. With what's going on, whatever your thoughts on the subject, you can't blame fans for how they feel. The fans are certainly not the problem.

CloakNNNdagger
11-09-2010, 12:05 PM
Exactly. Jerry Jones had been praising Wade Phillips up and down the last few weeks, and finally admitted that he was in denial.

At this point, McNair's comments mean zilch.

I'm not calling for Kubiak's head, since there is a slight chance of a "miraculous" finish. But I'll just point out, it seems to be easy for us to recognize and acknowledge the "denial" factor on the part of Jerruh. But "denial" doesn't seem to be allowed as a consideration in the decision tree taken by our own. Denial has a funny way of resulting in late actions (too late) and ultimately poor outcomes.

Porky
11-09-2010, 12:06 PM
McNair is clueless. It's one thing to come out with a vote of confidence in the coach, it's another to call out the fans because we don't accept 4-4 as somehow being "good news".

To wit:

“I’m disappointed we didn’t win Sunday (29-23 loss to San Diego) because we certainly could have. That’s the bad news. The good news is we’re 4-4, and we’re one game out of first place with half the season ahead of us.”


“We haven’t missed the playoffs,” McNair said. "I don’t know why they’re upset at this point. … We’ve got a long way to go".

Really, you have no idea why I am upset? You clueless piece of ownership garbage. Mcnair the man has my utmost respect. He's great in the community and classy as hell. Mcnair the owner is garbage. Absoloute and utter garbage. 4-4 now qualifies as good news? LMAO. And I never thought I would say this - but if anyone takes off their steel blue tinted glasses, it's not even close between Mcnair and the man from Possum Holler. As long as this guy is the leader of this ruderless ship, we are doomed to a whole lot of big stinking piles of dog ****.

drewmar74
11-09-2010, 12:09 PM
Really, you have no idea why I am upset? You clueless piece of ownership garbage. Mcnair the man has my utmost respect. He's great in the community and classy as hell. Mcnair the owner is garbage. Absoloute and utter garbage. 4-4 now qualifies as good news? LMAO. And I never thought I would say this - but if anyone takes off their steel blue tinted glasses, it's not even close between Mcnair and the man from Possum Holler. As long as this guy is the leader of this ruderless ship, we are doomed to a whole lot of big stinking piles of dog ****.

Porky - this is kind of ambiguous. It's almost like you're mincing words and dancing around what you really want to say here.....

:sarcasm:

Double Barrel
11-09-2010, 01:08 PM
Y'all got some short memories. Slug Adams is actually being praised in TexansLand???? :shocked

Besides ripping the team from it's cherished roots and leaving a gaping void where the Oilers used to be in our hearts and minds, what has his franchise accomplished in 50+ years? Seriously, one yard short in a SB is the apex?

Y'all need to read up on some Oiler Blues: The Story of Pro Football's Most Frustrating Team (http://www.amazon.com/Oiler-Blues-Story-Footballs-Frustrating/dp/1891422006). Slug's history is so mind-boggling inept that it's really amazing that he's stumbled on any kind of football success over the years.

I'm as disgusted and tired of this hapless perpetual mediocrity as the next fan. This product is burning me out and I'm hanging on the edge of the Cliff of Apathy by my fingertips and trying not to fall off. So I can definitely understand the anger and venting going on, here in our 9th season as Texans fans.

But all that being said, NOTHING about this franchise deserves to be compared to Slug Adams. Dude screwed the city, fans, and disregarded the Oilers name and logo with that stupid flaming meatball. I will NEVER give that fat bastid props, NEVER NEVER NEVER. And neither should you. :shades:

Look, McNair is basically a noob. Plain and simple, he just doesn't have the background and experience at this point to make the judgment calls with hard decisions. He's not a football man, and he doesn't have a football mind. He's a fan with the vast resources to own a team. But just owning a team doesn't automatically make one qualified to run it. That's why he trusted Casserly for the first several years and then brought in Dan Reeves as a consultant.

But I believe that he'll get it at some point. He'll find out that loyalty comes at a price, and perhaps it's a lesson that he'll have to learn the hard way. I certainly hope that it happens sooner than later, but that's just where he has set his priorities at the moment. However, he will learn, and he won't be a meddling dumbass of an owner that Slug was in his first couple of decades (the man fired Bum Phillips after a playoff season for crying out loud!!!!).

I understand the bitterness, but damn, comparing our owner to that turd is just fowl and below the belt.

JMO :howdy: [/rant]

infantrycak
11-09-2010, 01:46 PM
JMO :howdy: [/rant]

Good rant. I swear it has become a competition around here for who can exercise the most hyperbole.

JB
11-09-2010, 01:55 PM
Y'all got some short memories. Slug Adams is actually being praised in TexansLand???? :shocked



I was left totally speechless by the post you quoted.

thunderkyss
11-09-2010, 02:46 PM
McNair is quite the politician. Now is not the time to inject uncertainty.

If Kubiak loses five or more out of the next 8, he's gone.

I don't know about that.

I believe Kubiak is always saying, "It's on me" to protect his players. If I'm Andre & the owner just blamed me for losing that game..... I might be a little peeved.

If I'm Caldwell, I might be thinking, "he's right, freak'n Foster should have just held on to the ball."


The media (& the fans in reality) don't need to be hearing any of that kind of talk.... it's not the coach, it's the players... if Kubiak has the locker room, it won't be for long with that kind of talk.

As long as Kubiak is tearing into them....... actually, he doesn't need to tear into them, but he does need to hold them accountable....... & that don't mean to cut them, or bench them, there are hundreds of ways to hold someone accountable.....

I like Kubiak, but to say he's doing a fine job at this point, I think is overselling it.

"We've had some issues, I've talked to Gary, I'm confident he'll get it turned around."

That's all McNair needs to say.

thunderkyss
11-09-2010, 02:48 PM
Maybe we can find another group businessmen that can put a package together for another Houston team. Bob says F you fans, I'm making money!! Lol!!

Ah man, this is starting to feel like you're just busting your head against a wall over and over.

In all fairness, I think Jerry told the Media he was pleased with Wade, & wouldn't be making a change anytime soon about a week before he told the media that Jason Garrett will be acting as interim head coach.


grain of salt.

thunderkyss
11-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Well that ****ing seals it for me. McNair just told the fans he does not give a damn about winning. Kubiak and Smith are the luckiest SOBs in the NFL. They get to operate in a bubble without a shred of urgency and achieve mediocre results that teams committed to WINNING wouldn't stand for.

How the hell did Bob McNair become a billionaire in the first place with his devotion to mediocrity. Seriously, this guy could not have been this passive and devoid of passion or energy in making his fortune. From what I know, he is a self made man and not an heir to a fortune.

Is Bob McNair ****ing stupid, cheap, content or the ultimate con artist. I haven't decided yet. I hate Bud Adams with a passion for stealing Houston's REAL NFL TEAM the Houston Oilers from us. That being said, Bottom Line Bud was a MUCH BETTER owner than this clown McNair.

We will NEVER WIN with this owner. We might get lucky and make the playoffs every decade but we will never be a consistent winner in this league with this ***** running the team.

It makes me question my financial devotion to a team that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on in PSLs and a large chunk of my time during the fall. **** McNair and his bull**** franchise. Stop sending me emails trying to buy merchandise when your team is a complete failure.

So...... either Bob McNair is ****ing stupid, cheap, content, or the ultimate con artist...... or you are.

Let's see... I doubt a self made billionare would be stupid, cheap, content, or a con artist, so that would mean you....

:mariopalm:

DexmanC
11-09-2010, 03:17 PM
The Texans are half-way through their annual 4-game losing streak, which
will BURY their playoff chances. They are 1-3 over their last 4 games.
Prove me wrong, Texans.

thunderkyss
11-09-2010, 03:39 PM
If we weren't talking about an owner that has shown to have way to much loyalty than I'd buy a lot more into what you're stance is Bong. But with Bob, my impression has grown of him as a guy that just wants to get his profits and winning is a just a 2nd perk for him as an owner and if it happens then great. If not, oh well we had fun any way.

I don't understand this thinking myself. I'm just a dude from the public schools system, but I would think if I'm making a fat penny when the team isn't doing well, & I'm selling in a small (relatively speaking) market area, I would make even more money when the team is winning, & I'm selling my Texans' coffee Mugs across the whole country.

mediocre=a billion dollars

Winning=a bagillion dollars.

The1ApplePie
11-09-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't understand this thinking myself. I'm just a dude from the public schools system, but I would think if I'm making a fat penny when the team isn't doing well, & I'm selling in a small (relatively speaking) market area, I would make even more money when the team is winning, & I'm selling my Texans' coffee Mugs across the whole country.

mediocre=a billion dollars

Winning=a bagillion dollars.

I always thought that if McNair was pure-profit oriented, VY would have been the pick.

Of course, I don't think McNair knew that VY would be more popular than the entire franchise whenever he stepped into Reliant once a year either.

thunderkyss
11-09-2010, 04:20 PM
Bob has had a great thing going since he brought this franchise here with the support that the fan base has given him, and at some point he's going to realize that he's taken a lot of it for granted if he doesn't do something this off season. Kubiak shouldn't have had an extension and should have been axed last season. He got an extension and will most likely coach here next year and Bob will wait until this team completely gives up again and hits rock bottom. I don't have any confidence that Bob Mcnair is committed to building a dynasty based off of his words and more importantly his actions as an NFL owner. I think he's perfectly fine with being competitive and relevant, but anything more than that which would require extra money to spend or personal changes in management is something that he just doesn't want to deal with until he absolutely has to. Now I could be wrong about all of this, but it's my opinion based off of what I've perceived over the last 9 years. It sucks to have this perception and only Bob can change that perception.

I personally don't feel the same way. I'll start with the reluctance to spend money to get quality free agents here. McNair has shown me that money is no object to him. He has spent a ridiculous amount of money on to get FAs that weren't very good & helped set this team backwards. If you could convince him that the FA your looking at is the guy you need, I have no doubt, he'd be all about it. We gave Demeco a crap load of money. We were willing to make OD a top 5 paid TE (even after the Winslow deal), we were willing to make Dunta a top 5 paid CB even paid him $10 million for one year, paid DCarr $8 million & cut him the next off-season, then traded for a restricted FA & wrote him a big fat contract before even seeing him on the practice field.

I think we've been bit too many times where quality FAs won't come to Houston for anything close to fair & some would even take less money to play somewhere else, which to me is very, very embarrassing.

I also believe the decision was made 4.5 years ago, that the only way to do it (if you're ruling out big name FA) is through the draft & with young promising FAs (Walter, Leach, Briesel, Smith, Smith, Pollard). Once you make that decision then you've got to say, ok-how long it will take to make a SB contender.

If you tell me you can take a team of college juniors/seniors & make them SB contenders in 3 years I'd think you're a little arrogant, cocky, just telling me what I want to hear so you can get the job.

Tell me you can do it in 4 years, I'll believe you, but I'll put together a set of metrics, milestones to judge you by during those 4 years, to see if you're on track, or not.

If you tell me 5 years, I'm going to think you're a little cautious, maybe sandbagging a little bit.

If you tell me you need three things to be a contender; confidence, leadership, & talent.... & tell me you can put it all together in 3-5 years, you got a job.

This is year 5. I think since Kubiak got here, the plan has always been 3-5 years. If I were McNair, I would have gone over that 4 year plan with Kubiak, determine where we were on that road map. Are we where we said we wanted to be in 4 years?

The answer would have to be no, because we weren't contending for a SB...... if you're not in the play-offs, you don't stand a chance. Why?

If the answers are, "we had some injuries." "players goofed up." "My defensive coordinator is an idjit."

I'm dumping him. I don't want to hear excuses. I didn't hire the man to be an excuse maker.

If his answers are, "this isn't an exact science. We've done some good things here & here, we are on track there, & we' had this unexpected benefit. With the right ________ we'll get you a SB next year." He's getting an extension.

Year 5, no SuperBowl then he's gone. If he's got more answers & solutions, I'll keep him, give him another shot next year, if (and only if) they played their assess off & got beat by a better team in the play-offs.

If they were one & done, & looked like they didn't belong....... he's gone.


But that's just me.

Marcus
11-09-2010, 04:32 PM
Good rant. I swear it has become a competition around here for who can exercise the most hyperbole.

You're kidding me right?

Point me to the thread where there is not a competition for who can exercise the most hyperbole.

Seriously. That's how far down this board has sunk to.

JB
11-09-2010, 04:34 PM
You're kidding me right?

Point me to the thread where there is not a competition for who can exercise the most hyperbole.

Seriously. That's how far down this board has sunk to.

This is true. And no middle ground is allowed!

houstonspartan
11-09-2010, 04:39 PM
Good rant. I swear it has become a competition around here for who can exercise the most hyperbole.

True. A lot of us love to use multiple exclamation points and all caps to get our points across.

Lucky
11-09-2010, 09:59 PM
I really don't think McNair is that bad.
I don't think so, either. I just think he's made poor hires. He needs to make an obvious hire. Someone who commands respect the moment he walks into the locker room.

And I'll predict now, even if they go 8-8 Kubiak stays and then we get 8 months of threads about it.
I think we would see fewer threads than ever before. Hopelessness breeds indifference.
Seriously. That's how far down this board has sunk to.

This is true. And no middle ground is allowed!
Come on. You guys have been totally dismissive of any viewpoint that hints at Kubiak not being the right guy. This is an excellent football board, Marcus. And intolerance cuts both ways, JB.

Scooter
11-09-2010, 10:20 PM
I don't think so, either. I just think he's made poor hires. He needs to make an obvious hire. Someone who commands respect the moment he walks into the locker room.

in my opinion the "obvious hire" needs to be above kubiak. of course that "obvious hire" needs to obviously turn around and hire a defensive coaching staff. mcnair doesnt have the football experience or knowledge to be the final word in football matters ... the last time he tried we re-signed david carr. smith has done well working with kubiak, but if i didnt know better, it would appear that both smith and mcnair work under kubiak. much like shanahan doing it all to their detriment at the end in denver, it looks to me like kubiak is stretched across every aspect of the texans.

two guys i'd look at to take on instant authority are schottenheimer and bill parcells. both with major pedigrees, experience, and influence. they're also former defensive coaches who would compliment kubiak as well as putting a solid buffer between kubiak and many areas - making him more of a head coach and offensive leader than a first time coach overseeing his friends - themselves taking on major roles for the first time.

JB
11-09-2010, 10:41 PM
And intolerance cuts both ways, JB.

You are absolutely correct. And I need to man up and admit it. My frustration with all the negativity has me taking undeserved shots.

DexmanC
11-09-2010, 10:52 PM
You are absolutely correct. And I need to man up and admit it. My frustration with all the negativity has me taking undeserved shots.

Not much positivity in 1-3.

I was skeptical of the 3-1 start, but was proven right with
the current 1-3 slide. I think 1-3 is gonna turn into
1-6 or 2-5.

Kubiak proves me wrong, I'm a happy camper. I continue to be right,
I continue to be skeptical.

Nawzer
11-09-2010, 10:59 PM
A case can be made for both keeping Kubiak and firing Kubiak at this point in the season. But I think if we fire him now who's going to replace him? Alex Gibbs? I don't know but whoever it is, I don't think that person will do a better job than Kubiak. We still have 8 games to play out and we're only 1 game behind the division leader. I supported Kubiak last season because he was not at fault for loosing those 3 or 4 games the way we did. This year though, the playcalling has been suspect, his overestimation of our defense, and the lack of toughness or whatever you want to call it can all be blamed on Kubiak. With that said, I think McNair is wise not to fire him now and wait at least 3 or 4 more games to see if the team can turn this around.

thunderkyss
11-10-2010, 04:34 AM
Come on. You guys have been totally dismissive of any viewpoint that hints at Kubiak not being the right guy. This is an excellent football board, Marcus. And intolerance cuts both ways, JB.

Really?

I think many of us have stated Kubiak may very well not be the right guy, however decisions to fire him won't be made until the end of the season. That's not dismissive.

Others have stated that though he should be fired he won't because of the lock out, or the new contract, or McNairs pride, or man-love. That's not dismissive.

I believe McNair is probably searching right now for a suitable replacement, opening lines of communications, building relationships, in preparation to make a move this offseason, in the event that Kubiak doesn't finish strong.

My personal opinion of strong is a play-off run that does not include a one-and-done performance.

Dishman
11-10-2010, 05:09 AM
I don't understand this thinking myself. I'm just a dude from the public schools system, but I would think if I'm making a fat penny when the team isn't doing well, & I'm selling in a small (relatively speaking) market area, I would make even more money when the team is winning, & I'm selling my Texans' coffee Mugs across the whole country.

mediocre=a billion dollars

Winning=a bagillion dollars.
That sounds like common sense to me. Unfortunately, this assumes all owners want to win when we've seen owners make moves that tell us the exact opposite. I'm not saying that's McNair, but there are plenty of cheap-ass owners in the MLB and NBA. It's about making money.

Just look down the street over at Minute Maid Park. Drayton McClane cares about putting butts in the seat, cash in his pocket and meddling enough in the front office to put his stamp on terrible deals like the Carlos Lee signing. In fact, for years Drayton claimed the Astros were losing money, but refused to let anyone review the books to see if this was really the case.

I guess my point is owners want to win, sure. But sometimes owners are their own worst enemy getting in the way of progress or just feeding us all a bunch of crap were dying to hear (ready to be a champion today?).

thunderkyss
11-10-2010, 07:00 AM
That sounds like common sense to me. Unfortunately, this assumes all owners want to win when we've seen owners make moves that tell us the exact opposite. I'm not saying that's McNair, but there are plenty of cheap-ass owners in the MLB and NBA. It's about making money.

Winning = making more money.

There's no way to spin it. There isn't an owner stupid enough not to understand this concept.

Just look down the street over at Minute Maid Park. Drayton McClane cares about putting butts in the seat, cash in his pocket and meddling enough in the front office to put his stamp on terrible deals like the Carlos Lee signing. In fact, for years Drayton claimed the Astros were losing money, but refused to let anyone review the books to see if this was really the case.

Yet we scoff at the Yankees or the Skins or the Cowboys for trying to buy a championship.

Winning is always the goal. Some guys (Jerrah, Al Davis, Bud Adams) just may be to arrogant to understand their way is the wrong way.

Some guys McNair in particular is in the process of learning what it takes to win. He may have to concede that the good guy image isn't working. He may have to concede that the home-town kid ain't working. He may have to concede that $8 beer doesn't fill the stand very fast.......

Too many people here have seen Big Time FA contracts fail all over the NFL. Too many people here have seen "the splash" of bold FA acquisitions fail.... I bet most people here, deep down inside, understand that the majority of FA signings do not have the expected return. While an Asante Samuel may not be losing football games for you, he's not making the plays that his contract demands (IMHO).

We've also seen the musical coach game played, again my opinion, that does nothing but ensure a decade of mediocre football.

We're working on our own decade, there are no delusions here about that.

But, the progress on this team (again, my opinion) is undeniable, though slow to make it to the W-L. IMHO, we look more like the Cardinals before their Super Bowl run than the Lions or Rams & their recent dismal seasons.



I guess my point is owners want to win, sure. But sometimes owners are their own worst enemy getting in the way of progress or just feeding us all a bunch of crap were dying to hear (ready to be a champion today?).

Totally agree with this. Whether it's a business or a sports team (which is a business) winning is the goal. They all seem to get in their way, some will try to pull the wool over your eyes.

I don't think McNair is that guy. His words were, "doing a fine job."

Not doing a great job, not exceeding expectation, not "exactly where we want to be."

fine job means he may be walking at the end of the year, my confidence is somewhat disturbed at the moment.

CloakNNNdagger
11-10-2010, 07:30 AM
Winning = making more money.

There's no way to spin it. There isn't an owner stupid enough not to understand this concept.



The financial aspects of the playoffs may be somewhat eye-opening to some. It is worthwhile reading this article in detail.

Do NFL Teams Profit from the Playoffs? (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/4020/do_nfl_teams_profit_from_the_playoffs.html?cat=3)T he Greater a Team's Success in the NFL Post Season, the More Profits They Lose

The NFL is one of the most profitable sports in the world. In 2004, the average NFL team was worth $733 million, an increase of 17% from 2003. In 1984, the average value of an NFL team was $80 million. The value of a team is also a good indicator of the Super Bowl winner. According to Forbes magazine, since 1999, of the two teams competing in the Super Bowl, the one with greatest franchise value has won each time. The more success an NFL team has during the season (making the playoffs, winning a division, and winning the Super Bowl) the more profit the team makes, right. Wrong. Teams usually lose money during their post season play. However, a team’s value usually increases in following years with current season playoff success. During the 1980s, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers had the worst regular season won-loss record of any NFL team, 45-106. On the other hand, the San Francisco 49ers compiled the best record during the 80s, 104-47, including 4 Super Bowl championships. Which of these teams made the most money during the 80s? Tampa Bay made more money and in fact, the 49ers lost the most money of any team during the 1980s. Since then, the NFL has implemented a salary cap (no team can spend more than 65% of its gross revenue on player salaries) and this helps keep spending in check but, “you might lose money on a playoff run,” admits David Carter of the Sports Business Group, a marketing consulting company. Before his team’s first playoff game in 2004, Atlanta Falcons President and General Manager, Rich McKay, stated, “I would expect to lose a little bit of money on the game. It is not a money-maker.” The Green Bay Packers, the NFL’s only publicly owned franchise, lost $1.5 million during their Super Bowl appearances in 1997 and 1998. The St. Louis Rams also reported losing money during their Super Bowl winning season in 2000. Why do teams lose money during the playoffs? Many point the revenue sharing system employed by the NFL. Each team receives and equal amount of league revenue, TV contract, merchandising, and home game ticket revenue. During the regular season, home teams get to keep two-thirds of the ticket revenue, the remaining third goes into a pool shared by all other teams. The NFL keeps all ticket revenue during the playoffs, but home teams can keep money made off other stadium related sales, merchandise, concessions etc. etc. The NFL pays division winning teams a flat fee of $580,000 and other teams $500,000 in the first round. In the second round, each team gets $580,000 and in the championship round $960,000. The Super Bowl winner receives $3.5 million and runner up $2.59 million. That is usually not enough to cover team expenses. John Jones, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the Green Bay Packers said, “Expenses usually exceed whatever you get from the league.” Other reasons for teams losing money in the playoffs include paying bonuses to staff and players for successful playoff runs, moving equipment to the games (obviously, home teams do not have to worry about this), and hosting VIPS and sponsors. Players do not profit from playoff games either. NFL teams do not have to pay their players during the playoffs because the league covers the playoff salary pool, which is beyond regular season pay. A player’s salary is divided among the 16 regular season games. A marquee player may make nearly $800,000 per game in the regular season but in the playoffs, he will make the same as a player who sits on the bench most of the time, generally around $18,000 per game. Most NFL players make more money than you and I can ever imagine so, I bet your heart, like mine, is not bleeding at all for them. These puzzling playoff finances conjure up three questions to the skeptic. Do some owners intentionally keep their teams from making the playoffs in order to have the greatest profit for a season? All teams, except the Arizona Cardinals, make sizeable profits during the regular season. Do some owners want their teams to make the playoffs, have some success, but not total success (Super Bowl winner) so they can improve their team’s future long term value and minimize their playoff losses? Do some players put forth less effort in the playoffs since they only get paid a small fraction of their normal regular season salary? As a die-hard NFL fan, I would like to believe greed does not exist in the NFL. Since money plays such a large role in most people’s lives, one would be naïve to think that the scenarios mentioned above are not at least a possibility. The answers may be disturbing. In the end of the movie, Planet of the Apes, Dr. Zaius says to Taylor, as he is riding away to discover what happened to the Earth he once knew, “Be careful what you look for Taylor, you may not like what you find.” Even though the NFL playoff finance system seems puzzling, the NFL still has the best business operations of all sports. In a perfect world, the NFL would have a system, which rewards players and teams for their post-season efforts. Nevertheless, it is not a perfect world and I still look forward to each NFL season and post-season.

b0ng
11-10-2010, 08:17 AM
If we weren't talking about an owner that has shown to have way to much loyalty than I'd buy a lot more into what you're stance is Bong. But with Bob, my impression has grown of him as a guy that just wants to get his profits and winning is a just a 2nd perk for him as an owner and if it happens then great. If not, oh well we had fun any way. There are certain owners around the league that will always have that mentality where they're fine with being slightly above average for the most part and they're only concerned with making a lot of moves when they're at rock bottom. It wasn't until the Texans finally hit rock bottom when they decided to fire Capers and then get rid of Carr the next year after that.

Bob has had a great thing going since he brought this franchise here with the support that the fan base has given him, and at some point he's going to realize that he's taken a lot of it for granted if he doesn't do something this off season. Kubiak shouldn't have had an extension and should have been axed last season. He got an extension and will most likely coach here next year and Bob will wait until this team completely gives up again and hits rock bottom. I don't have any confidence that Bob Mcnair is committed to building a dynasty based off of his words and more importantly his actions as an NFL owner. I think he's perfectly fine with being competitive and relevant, but anything more than that which would require extra money to spend or personal changes in management is something that he just doesn't want to deal with until he absolutely has to. Now I could be wrong about all of this, but it's my opinion based off of what I've perceived over the last 9 years. It sucks to have this perception and only Bob can change that perception.

I don't see why Bob would fire a coach who gave him the best team record he's ever seen. I wasn't in favor of the extension in the offseason either, but in no way did I think that he deserved to be fired after improving the team again. I think a lot of people are upset that Kubiak didn't go from 2-14, to 11-5 inside of a season (Maybe two for the more patient fans). Honestly, I really don't listen to what Bob is saying about how he thinks the team is doing, because in the media Bob is captain positive. He's not going to cut down his coaches in the press pretty much ever, he's going to fire them in whichever offseason he deems appropriate (judging this entirely based off him firing one staff so far).

Now I used to be high on Smith as a GM, and the guy still seems like a decent talent evaluator, but some of his FA stuff leaves a lot to be desired. I'm glad Wade Smith is somewhat decent, but Smith seems to be a huge cheapo when it comes to free agency. Remember, McNair didn't have a problem when Casserly was retardedly giving money to scrubs every offseason so I won't pin really much on him. I also believe Kubiak will be here as a HC in 2011 unless the team completely tanks the rest of the season, but I can see why Bob likes Kubiak. He's a good guy, he's not outrageous, and for the most part the team has shown improvement every year he's been here. Fans are like any other massive group of people. Individually they can be smart, intelligent, and forward thinking. But get a lot of fans together, and they become panicky, prone to knee-jerk reactions, and generally blinded to anything that they already don't believe.

I am interested in seeing whether Bush gets the boot in the offseason, and who gets brought in to replace him. That's probably the biggest coaching change that everybody here is going to see.

Double Barrel
11-10-2010, 10:00 AM
I always thought that if McNair was pure-profit oriented, VY would have been the pick.

Of course, I don't think McNair knew that VY would be more popular than the entire franchise whenever he stepped into Reliant once a year either.

I don't think McNair had much to do with that decision, other than wanting to avoid a holdout situation with the first overall pick (that would be bad publicity).

No, the Aggie would never have picked VY in a million years.

The financial aspects of the playoffs may be somewhat eye-opening to some. It is worthwhile reading this article in detail.

That is definitely an eye-opener and quite contrary to what an average fan (like me) would assume. Thanks for posting that article. It is definitely food for thought.

Porky
11-10-2010, 10:28 AM
You are absolutely correct. And I need to man up and admit it. My frustration with all the negativity has me taking undeserved shots.

When you are on the Titanic and the captain is steering the ship right for the iceburg, would you rather the passengers start screaming to change course, or do you prefer to have the band come out and play on the deck to appease the crowd? We don't need Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Now is the time to chart a new course before it's too late and more fans jump off the ship into the frigid waters.

JB
11-10-2010, 10:34 AM
When you are on the Titanic and the captain is steering the ship right for the iceburg, would you rather the passengers start screaming to change course, or do you prefer to have the band come out and play on the deck to appease the crowd? We don't need Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Now is the time to chart a new course before it's too late and more fans jump off the ship into the frigid waters.

Screaming on this board will never reach McNairs ears...

If enough people want McNair to get the idea, then don't go to the games, don't buy any merchandise, and don't watch on local tv.

Ranting on this board accomplishes nothing beyond getting a bit of vitriol out of your system...or maybe building up a bit more.

Porky
11-10-2010, 11:13 AM
That's true. I guess that is my point. This is a message board for fans of the Texans to state opinions, correct? Or did you want me to give my opinion of the Food network or something, because if I landed on the wrong message board I am so embarrased. :chef:

CloakNNNdagger
11-10-2010, 11:17 AM
That is definitely an eye-opener and quite contrary to what an average fan (like me) would assume. Thanks for posting that article. It is definitely food for thought.


Additional evidence that team owners whether their teams are being run well or poorly, whether they make the playoffs or not, can expect franchise values to go up each year.

THE ECONOMICS OF NFL TEAM OWNERSHIP (http://www.rodneyfort.com/PHSportsEcon/Common/LinksandFun/LinksFun04/FINAL%20-%20The%20Economics%20of%20NFL%20Team%20Ownership.p df)Profs. Kevin M. Murphy & Robert H. Topel1

Our firm has been asked by the NFL Players Association (NFLPA) to examine the NFL owners’ claim that they cannot continue to operate economically under the current salary cap/free agency system.

JB
11-10-2010, 11:36 AM
That's true. I guess that is my point. This is a message board for fans of the Texans to state opinions, correct? Or did you want me to give my opinion of the Food network or something, because if I landed on the wrong message board I am so embarrased. :chef:

lol

No, but I get to state my opinions also right? I'm not happy where the team is now, but I want to look for a silver lining. There is still half the season to play, and I'm still hoping they play better than they did in the first half.

drewmar74
11-10-2010, 11:41 AM
lol

No, but I get to state my opinions also right? I'm not happy where the team is now, but I want to look for a silver lining. There is still half the season to play, and I'm still hoping they play better than they did in the first half.

Man, I'd love it.

If it all "clicked."

Maybe Jacoby actually catches some passes. We actually have a gameplan. KJ doesn't fall down.....

It could happen!

thunderkyss
11-10-2010, 11:44 AM
lol

No, but I get to state my opinions also right? I'm not happy where the team is now, but I want to look for a silver lining. There is still half the season to play, and I'm still hoping they play better than they did in the first half.

& my season tickets are already paid for.

CloakNNNdagger
11-10-2010, 11:45 AM
lol

No, but I get to state my opinions also right? I'm not happy where the team is now, but I want to look for a silver lining. There is still half the season to play, and I'm still hoping they play better than they did in the first half.

The way things are going now, one is more likely to find that silver lining inside the beer cans used to numb the effects of the team's performances.:chef:

axman40
11-10-2010, 11:54 AM
Uncle Bob thinks we are Cubs fans?
:mariopalm:

JB
11-10-2010, 11:56 AM
The way things are going now, one is more likely to find that silver lining inside the beer cans used to numb the effects of the team's performances.:chef:

And I look there often! :drunk:

Porky
11-10-2010, 11:56 AM
lol

No, but I get to state my opinions also right? I'm not happy where the team is now, but I want to look for a silver lining. There is still half the season to play, and I'm still hoping they play better than they did in the first half.

Sure, as long as your opinion agrees with mine. :evil:

J/K. :goodluck:

thunderkyss
11-10-2010, 11:56 AM
The way things are going now, one is more likely to find that silver lining inside the beer cans used to numb the effects of the team's performances.:chef:

The teams performance?

I'm excited about the teams performance. From what I saw, the Chargers D is for real & we moved the ball on them very well, from the word go. I think that was our best offensive performance of the year. We didn't rack up the numbers we "usually see" we didn't get the score we "usually see" But it was the offense that has kept us in the game.

Defensively. We didn't give up 400 total yards (367), we didn't give up 300 passing yards (290), we won the turnover battle (2-1), we won the T.O.P. battle (I think this is the first time in a loss this year). This was against the #1 defense in the league (now the #2 defense in the league).

JB
11-10-2010, 11:57 AM
Sure, as long as your opinion agrees with mine. :evil:

J/K. :goodluck:


That would suck though, wouldn't it? :kitten:

hot pickle
11-10-2010, 11:58 AM
i remember saying acouple years ago that the texans will never win a super bowl if McNair is the owner of the texans.... 1-3 record at home is not doing a fine job IMO

Second Honeymoon
11-10-2010, 01:42 PM
I have been telling you McNair is all about profit margins since the day his team drafted a crap puss of a QB from Fresno State to be the 'face of the franchise'...rather than putting a team together that can win football games.

When he made keeping Carr a pre-requisite for getting the Texans head coaching job after Capers, I lost all faith in the guy.

I don't care that he brought football back and I don't care how much he spent on the team. If the team sucks and is nothing more than a money factory, who gives a crap?

And where is all the Dunta hate now? Is everyone still happy we got rid of our veterans? Is everyone still happy that we didn't make any offseason moves and decided to stick with our 'kids'? Is everyone still happy that we gave Kubiak an extension for being a .500 coach?

A lot of yall hate Jerry Jones, but at least he wants to win and has won. He has a coach who has won division titles 2 of the last 3 years and he got fired. We got a coach who hasn't been to the playoffs in 5 years and he is to be found as having done a 'fine job'

The only 'fine job' being done around here is all the wool that has been pulled over the Houston Sheeple's eyes...and its been going on since Day One.

the Texans are average and that is fine with McNair....and for him to be so stupid to say that we are only one game out of first place and that things are fine, just shows you how much of a blithering moron the guy is. Does he realize we have the tough part of our schedule coming up and we STILL have scrubs like Quin and Petey Jackson at Cornerback? Does he realize that he has the most overrated player in the league in Mario? Does he realize that he has the WORST defensive co-ordinator in the league courtesy of Kubiak?

A lot of you were happy with the Bush hiring, but are you still? The guy got promoted from within. Why? What did he do to merit that? Oh yeah, I know. He is friends with Gary. Just like Rick Smith.

And as for Rick Smith. He sucks. Period. There, I said it. He Sucks.

Okoye, Duane Brown, Cushing the Roid, Petey Jackson, 1,000 Tight Ends, and absolutely NO quality veteran signings outside of Antonio Smith. Oh yeah, and he didn't even keep the only decent corner we had in Dunta. I know he was an a-hole with the whole Pay Me Rick thing, but he went to the season with this group and they haven't been hit by injuries or anything. They just suck about as bad as his scouting/talent evaluation.

Fire Rick Smith
Fire Gary "Flatliner" Kubiak
Hire someone who isn't a puss and someone who actually can put together a good staff.

I have been trying to stay positive, but this garbage is ridiculous.

gary cant even tell between a half yard and 1 1/2 yards. Was he too busy hiding behind his Denny's menu?

F You Gary and the horse you rode in on. You suck.

DexmanC
11-10-2010, 02:06 PM
I have been telling you McNair is all about profit margins since the day his team drafted a crap puss of a QB from Fresno State to be the 'face of the franchise'...rather than putting a team together that can win football games.

When he made keeping Carr a pre-requisite for getting the Texans head coaching job after Capers, I lost all faith in the guy.

I don't care that he brought football back and I don't care how much he spent on the team. If the team sucks and is nothing more than a money factory, who gives a crap?

And where is all the Dunta hate now? Is everyone still happy we got rid of our veterans? Is everyone still happy that we didn't make any offseason moves and decided to stick with our 'kids'? Is everyone still happy that we gave Kubiak an extension for being a .500 coach?

A lot of yall hate Jerry Jones, but at least he wants to win and has won. He has a coach who has won division titles 2 of the last 3 years and he got fired. We got a coach who hasn't been to the playoffs in 5 years and he is to be found as having done a 'fine job'

The only 'fine job' being done around here is all the wool that has been pulled over the Houston Sheeple's eyes...and its been going on since Day One.

the Texans are average and that is fine with McNair....and for him to be so stupid to say that we are only one game out of first place and that things are fine, just shows you how much of a blithering moron the guy is. Does he realize we have the tough part of our schedule coming up and we STILL have scrubs like Quin and Petey Jackson at Cornerback? Does he realize that he has the most overrated player in the league in Mario? Does he realize that he has the WORST defensive co-ordinator in the league courtesy of Kubiak?

A lot of you were happy with the Bush hiring, but are you still? The guy got promoted from within. Why? What did he do to merit that? Oh yeah, I know. He is friends with Gary. Just like Rick Smith.

And as for Rick Smith. He sucks. Period. There, I said it. He Sucks.

Okoye, Duane Brown, Cushing the Roid, Petey Jackson, 1,000 Tight Ends, and absolutely NO quality veteran signings outside of Antonio Smith. Oh yeah, and he didn't even keep the only decent corner we had in Dunta. I know he was an a-hole with the whole Pay Me Rick thing, but he went to the season with this group and they haven't been hit by injuries or anything. They just suck about as bad as his scouting/talent evaluation.

Fire Rick Smith
Fire Gary "Flatliner" Kubiak
Hire someone who isn't a puss and someone who actually can put together a good staff.

I have been trying to stay positive, but this garbage is ridiculous.

gary cant even tell between a half yard and 1 1/2 yards. Was he too busy hiding behind his Denny's menu?

F You Gary and the horse you rode in on. You suck.

Right on. Gary had a chance to hire a competent defensive coordinator,
but chose to interview NO ONE but Frank Bush. People are willing to allow
him to fire ANOTHER defensive coordinator?? Really??

We've seen enough to know that Gary will NEVER hire an alpha-male,
aggressive coordinator that could challenge his command at head coach,
just by BEING A MAN.

Marcus
11-10-2010, 02:46 PM
Is all this nervous blathering supposed to accomplish something?

Thorn
11-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Is all this nervous blathering supposed to accomplish something?

Venting is good for the soul. Besides, it's the internets.

Double Barrel
11-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Is all this nervous blathering supposed to accomplish something?

Misery loves company.

Second Honeymoon
11-10-2010, 03:17 PM
Is all this nervous blathering supposed to accomplish something?

you were a Carr apologist
and now you are a Kubiak apologist

sorry if I take your input with a truckload err grain of salt
but i will give you credit for the loyalty albeit misguided and blind

Marcus
11-10-2010, 03:39 PM
you were a Carr apologist
and now you are a Kubiak apologist

sorry if I take your input with a truckload err grain of salt
but i will give you credit for the loyalty albeit misguided and blind

Yeah, I was a Carr apologist, and I was wrong.

But why can't YOU let it go? You need to admit it, SH. You can't. You're just as bitter now as you ever were. You even admitted it last week.

How's that working out for you?

Everyone else around here has let the Carr thing go, except you. EXCEPT YOU!

You, and everyone else can get your pound of flesh with me supporting Kubiak. I know I'm probably the only one who does. But he's still around, so that's fair game.

But your deal with Carr . . . man, you need to check yourself.

steelbtexan
11-10-2010, 03:41 PM
you were a Carr apologist
and now you are a Kubiak apologist

sorry if I take your input with a truckload err grain of salt
but i will give you credit for the loyalty albeit misguided and blind

Nothing but the truth, well said.

SH, it sure didn't take long for you to fall off of the Mr.Positive bandwagon. LOL

Your previous rant was well said. Repped

Ole Miss Texan
11-10-2010, 04:45 PM
I have been telling you McNair is all about profit margins since the day his team drafted a crap puss of a QB from Fresno State to be the 'face of the franchise'...rather than putting a team together that can win football games.
I wouldn't say McNair is all about profit margins in the sense you mean it. All owners definitely should be interested in the bottom line because it's a billion dollar franchise and they'd be ignorant not to be.

I understand your frustration completely though. The NFL is an entertainment industry and each franchise is an entertainment company. That's the product or service they're selling: Entertainment. McNair is not cheap in the sense he doesn't want to spend. Before Reliant's doors even opened he hired a team from the Disney Company to come in and train every single service employee of the stadium. Why? Because they are the best and who better than the best to train your people? I don't know of a single other franchise that has done that. He wants the fans (us) to go to one of the nicest stadiums built, be helped/served by curteous employees, have a great experience... and then come back and do it all again. The NFL is a business.

We've experienced some less than stellar seasons, no doubt about it. But I don't, not for one second, think McNair doesn't care about winning. Is he making money? Sure. Is he richer than all of us? Sure. Does he like stability? Sure. That makes him a bad guy and happy with a complacent team right? No. I know none of us see it but I'd bet out of all of us, he wants this team to be a winner more than anyone. He's not happy with how things are. He wants a winner, he's getting tired and frustrated of waiting, he's just not wearing that on his sleeve like everyone wants him to. We all want him to break down and cry and say everyone is fired and every time we miss the playoffs he'll hire a new coach to get us there. But that's not going to happen.

It's been time to field a consistent winning team though. He's got an extremely loyal fanbase. An extremely loyal and frustrated fanbase. He wants a perennial playoff franchise, he wants to give that to the fans and G.D. now is the time for it to come to fruition.

Texanmike02
11-10-2010, 05:19 PM
I have been telling you McNair is all about profit margins since the day his team drafted a crap puss of a QB from Fresno State to be the 'face of the franchise'...rather than putting a team together that can win football games.


I basically stopped reading after this. Of Course the guy is about profit. Man I'm going to stop shopping at businesses that I think are in it for the profit. Same with attending private schools.


There is no requirement that you go to the games or that you be a fan, this is a billion dollar investment and it is expected to generate revenue. If it doesn't it won't be here long. If you think that the team doesn't want to win games then stop being a fan. If you think that Mr. McNair thinks for a minute that winning wouldn't improve his profit margin then go be a fan of the college games. You know all pure and stuff. I think the last bastion of pure athletics is actually middle school sports. THAT is the game you need to be watching if you don't want the owners/schools worried about winning.

As for has he tried to win? Or has he done what is needed to win? I think he has. We are fortunate enough to have an owner who lets football people make football decisions. Maybe with HWWNBM he was involved but I think for the most part he lets football people make football decisions. Maybe he has the wrong football people... maybe.. I'm open to that possibility.. but that means there is hope for the future if he does. Smithiak won't be here forever if that's the case and we'll go on looking for the right football people. It could be worse. We could be the cowgirls or the raiders. i don't see any of their situations improving anytime soon.

Mike

You have owners who make moves too quickly and owners who are a little slow. The advantage we have is that when we do get a good coach/GM they will have time to develop and they will be here a while. Look at the redskins and raiders for coaches who aren't given enough time. The browns were that way for a while I think... The owner is so involved and thinks he knows what he's talking about... we're not saddled with that. Instead we're 'saddled' with a guy who gives coaches a year, maybe two too long. I'll take the second over the first.

BetaV1
11-10-2010, 05:28 PM
I basically stopped reading after this. Of Course the guy is about profit. Man I'm going to stop shopping at businesses that I think are in it for the profit. Same with attending private schools.


There is no requirement that you go to the games or that you be a fan, this is a billion dollar investment and it is expected to generate revenue. If it doesn't it won't be here long. If you think that the team doesn't want to win games then stop being a fan. If you think that Mr. McNair thinks for a minute that winning wouldn't improve his profit margin then go be a fan of the college games. You know all pure and stuff. I think the last bastion of pure athletics is actually middle school sports. THAT is the game you need to be watching if you don't want the owners/schools worried about winning.

As for has he tried to win? Or has he done what is needed to win? I think he has. We are fortunate enough to have an owner who lets football people make football decisions. Maybe with HWWNBM he was involved but I think for the most part he lets football people make football decisions. Maybe he has the wrong football people... maybe.. I'm open to that possibility.. but that means there is hope for the future if he does. Smithiak won't be here forever if that's the case and we'll go on looking for the right football people. It could be worse. We could be the cowgirls or the raiders. i don't see any of their situations improving anytime soon.

Mike

:goodpost:

Second Honeymoon
11-10-2010, 07:52 PM
I am not asking for the guy to lose money
Start making winning more of a priority andnot be afraid to make a move when it's stating you in the face. Smith and kubiak or over their head

How can we believe in the guy when he can't even tell the difference between a half yard and a yard and a half. I can't even stand to look at the guy after that. I can imagine the players have to be in disbelief about such a stupid and ignorant blunder

I am a big Matt guy but he is to blame on that too
Inexcusable and simply unacceptable

DexmanC
11-10-2010, 08:12 PM
I am not asking for the guy to lose money
Start making winning more of a priority andnot be afraid to make a move when it's stating you in the face. Smith and kubiak or over their head

How can we believe in the guy when he can't even tell the difference between a half yard and a yard and a half. I can't even stand to look at the guy after that. I can imagine the players have to be in disbelief about such a stupid and ignorant blunder

I am a big Matt guy but he is to blame on that too
Inexcusable and simply unacceptable

Matt is a robot, Kubiak is the control. The Manning brothers collaborate
with the coaches to make calls. Schaub just does what he's told.

NitroGSXR
11-10-2010, 08:51 PM
Matt is a robot, Kubiak is the control. The Manning brothers collaborate
with the coaches to make calls. Schaub just does what he's told.

If true then Kubiak did a hell of a job last year.

I don't buy the dis on Schaub. Kid's a real QB.

GuerillaBlack
11-10-2010, 08:54 PM
Matt is a robot, Kubiak is the control. The Manning brothers collaborate
with the coaches to make calls. Schaub just does what he's told.

And this is what I want changed. Let Matt collaborate with the coaches. With Kubiak, it's his way or nothing. It's why the Texans have been so damn mediocre. We need someone new roaming the sidelines. I really hope I'm proven wrong these next 8 games. I'd eat all the crow the Kubiak apologists throw at me, but I highly doubt I'll be proven wrong. Kubiak is so incompetent.

If true then Kubiak did a hell of a job last year.

I don't buy the dis on Schaub. Kid's a real QB.

It's more of a knock on Kubiak for not giving Schaub more control, as far as audibles go.

DexmanC
11-10-2010, 09:04 PM
If Kubiak wins these next 8 games, and gets us into the playoffs, just
go ahead and put crow on the steamtable at Golden Corral. I'll make
that bird profitable.

Pantherstang84
11-10-2010, 09:45 PM
If Kubiak wins these next 8 games, and gets us into the playoffs, just
go ahead and put crow on the steamtable at Golden Corral. I'll make
that bird profitable.

I'll be with you in the buffet line.

steelbtexan
11-10-2010, 09:52 PM
Lookin forward to some good ole crow stew.

Brisco_County
11-11-2010, 12:08 AM
I am not asking for the guy to lose money
Start making winning more of a priority andnot be afraid to make a move when it's stating you in the face. Smith and kubiak or over their head

How can we believe in the guy when he can't even tell the difference between a half yard and a yard and a half. I can't even stand to look at the guy after that. I can imagine the players have to be in disbelief about such a stupid and ignorant blunder

I am a big Matt guy but he is to blame on that too
Inexcusable and simply unacceptable

I have to admit that your criticisms of Kubiak that I once disagreed with make a lot more sense now. I was a Kubiak apologists for 4.3 seasons before the KC game disillusioned me (despite the win, the game was infuriating).

But I will defend McNair a little bit here. I think he was trying to be fair with Kubiak and give him sufficient time to rebuild after the Casserly disaster. We may disagree on what the sufficient timeframe should have been, but the timeframe was the determining factor in keeping Kubiak, not an apathetic profit motive.

I think McNair does want a winning team and he is willing to make hard decisions-- He's just not cutthroat about it. In time he'll learn the difference between being cutthroat versus shrewd.

HTown2ATX
11-11-2010, 07:39 AM
FWIW....

On 610 this morning around 7:15a.m. during the "No Huddle" segment, Van der Meer said that he talked to Bob McNair while at the Texans facility recently and that Bob said it was ok for Marc to repeat some of it on air.

Apparently what Bob said was that he was misunderstood about his comments on Gary. He said that he knows things are unacceptable right now and that fans are not happy. He recognizes the negative trend and that it is not going to be acceptable. However, they are currently 4-4 so he is not considereing making any changes at this time.

So basically he was trying to let fans and everyone know I guess through Marc that he is not blind but the current record does not merit serious action yet.

If this is true I can understand it. I'm tired of Kubes bull**** at this point, but, changing coaches does nothing mid season so, unless there is a monumental collapse I think GK has until the end of the year to wiin minimum 11 games (7-1 rest of season) and possibly make the playoffs. If not, then we see if Bob pulls the trigger.

False Start
11-11-2010, 07:46 AM
FWIW....

On 610 this morning around 7:15a.m. during the "No Huddle" segment, Van der Meer said that he talked to Bob McNair while at the Texans facility recently and that Bob said it was ok for Marc to repeat some of it on air.

Apparently what Bob said was that he was misunderstood about his comments on Gary. He said that he knows things are unacceptable right now and that fans are not happy. He recognizes the negative trend and that it is not going to be acceptable. However, they are currently 4-4 so he is not considereing making any changes at this time.

So basically he was trying to let fans and everyone know I guess through Marc that he is not blind but the current record does not merit serious action yet.

If this is true I can understand it. I'm tired of Kubes bull**** at this point, but, changing coaches does nothing mid season so, unless there is a monumental collapse I think GK has until the end of the year to wiin minimum 11 games (7-1 rest of season) and possibly make the playoffs. If not, then we see if Bob pulls the trigger.


I heard that too. Lets hope Bob is finally seeing the light.

Double Barrel
11-11-2010, 10:00 AM
I am not asking for the guy to lose money
Start making winning more of a priority andnot be afraid to make a move when it's stating you in the face. Smith and kubiak or over their head

How can we believe in the guy when he can't even tell the difference between a half yard and a yard and a half. I can't even stand to look at the guy after that. I can imagine the players have to be in disbelief about such a stupid and ignorant blunder

I am a big Matt guy but he is to blame on that too
Inexcusable and simply unacceptable

While I'm not going to jump on McNair for being too patient, I simply cannot excuse a fifth year NFL head coach with some of the just plain dumb perceptions and decisions being made during games.

This lack of comprehension for a critical short yardage situation is beyond defensible for any head coach, much less one in his fifth season.

Couple that with his admitted inability to look ahead one play (i.e. Colts game 3rd&2 then 4th&2), and these are just inexcusable brain farts that is a sign of deeper issues.

Certain coaching decisions can be legitimately debated until the cows come home, like going for it on 4th or kicking a FG.

But others, like a failure to comprehend basic game situational knowledge, just shows a lack of attention to detail that can mean the difference in wins and losses in close games.

I will reserve judgment on McNair the owner until after the season is finished. If the Texans miss the playoffs again, and he keeps Kubiak in spite of the obvious failure to grow into the position, then all bets are off. But only time will tell if he has that kind of patience that is incomprehensible to fans. I know he's already crossed that particular line with many fans already.

thunderkyss
11-11-2010, 10:14 AM
So basically he was trying to let fans and everyone know I guess through Marc that he is not blind but the current record does not merit serious action yet.

If this is true I can understand it. I'm tired of Kubes bull**** at this point, but, changing coaches does nothing mid season so, unless there is a monumental collapse I think GK has until the end of the year to wiin minimum 11 games (7-1 rest of season) and possibly make the playoffs. If not, then we see if Bob pulls the trigger.

That's the way I took the "fine" comment. We could be doing a lot worse than we are. We could be doing a lot better than we are. We had some issues coming into the season we knew were going to hurt us. We've had some issues creep up since the start of the season that hurt us. We've overcome those issues and managed to win 4 games. We weren't able to overcome those issues and failed to win 4 games.

There's still a lot of football to be played.

But I would caution against putting limits, like a minimum of 11 games, or even play-offs in to what Bob will see as acceptable. That will only lead to frustration. Bob has not always done what this messageboard thinks he should do.

CloakNNNdagger
11-11-2010, 10:21 AM
FWIW....

On 610 this morning around 7:15a.m. during the "No Huddle" segment, Van der Meer said that he talked to Bob McNair while at the Texans facility recently and that Bob said it was ok for Marc to repeat some of it on air.

Apparently what Bob said was that he was misunderstood about his comments on Gary. He said that he knows things are unacceptable right now and that fans are not happy. He recognizes the negative trend and that it is not going to be acceptable. However, they are currently 4-4 so he is not considereing making any changes at this time.

So basically he was trying to let fans and everyone know I guess through Marc that he is not blind but the current record does not merit serious action yet.

If this is true I can understand it. I'm tired of Kubes bull**** at this point, but, changing coaches does nothing mid season so, unless there is a monumental collapse I think GK has until the end of the year to wiin minimum 11 games (7-1 rest of season) and possibly make the playoffs. If not, then we see if Bob pulls the trigger.

I'm not sure that I'm following this statement. With our difficult games behind us, and only easy ones staring us in the face, why not win 12 games and definitely make the playoffs?:bubbles:

eriadoc
11-11-2010, 10:24 AM
Sorry, I skipped the first seven pages of this thread, but if by "fine job" McNair means 35-37, then I agree with him.

Actually, you know what? That's not fair. That first year was pretty tough. I'm striking it from the record and recognizing Kubiak's record as 29-27, a fine job indeed.

*no one will notice the sarcasm, right?*

painekiller
11-11-2010, 10:31 AM
I'm not sure that I'm following this statement. With our difficult games behind us, and only easy ones staring us in the face, why not win 12 games and definitely make the playoffs?:bubbles:

Lets see:
Jacksonville 4-4
Jets 6-2
Titans 5-3
Eagles 5-3
Ravens 6-2
Titans 5-3
Broncos only patsy at 2-6
Jacksonville 4-4

I'm sorry but I don't see the easy part of the schedule ahead? We just finished our easy part.

thunderkyss
11-11-2010, 10:40 AM
Lets see:
Jacksonville 4-4
Jets 6-2
Titans 5-3
Eagles 5-3
Ravens 6-2
Titans 5-3
Broncos only patsy at 2-6
Jacksonville 4-4

I'm sorry but I don't see the easy part of the schedule ahead? We just finished our easy part.

I'm pretty sure the little smiley was to note the sarcasm........

pretty sure.

CloakNNNdagger
11-11-2010, 10:42 AM
Lets see:
Jacksonville 4-4
Jets 6-2
Titans 5-3
Eagles 5-3
Ravens 6-2
Titans 5-3
Broncos only patsy at 2-6
Jacksonville 4-4

I'm sorry but I don't see the easy part of the schedule ahead? We just finished our easy part.

PK,

Just my point. I was actually responding in a very sarcastic manner to the 7-1 statement.

HTown2ATX
11-11-2010, 11:00 AM
PK,

Just my point. I was actually responding in a very sarcastic manner to the 7-1 statement.


This is why I made this statement. Obviously 7-1 is preeeeeeeeeettttyyyyyyy much not gonna happen. So it's an impossible task = Kubes in my book should be gone after this year.

But with Bob, who knows....a string of meaningless wins at the end to bring us to .500 may convince him to keep Kubes again.

I was essentially being sarcastinc in saying 7-1 basically..

DexmanC
11-11-2010, 11:38 AM
This is why I made this statement. Obviously 7-1 is preeeeeeeeeettttyyyyyyy much not gonna happen. So it's an impossible task = Kubes in my book should be gone after this year.

But with Bob, who knows....a string of meaningless wins at the end to bring us to .500 may convince him to keep Kubes again.

I was essentially being sarcastinc in saying 7-1 basically..

I don't see a "string of wins " period at the end of this schedule.

There's literally "Nowhere to Hide" on the back half of the 2010 schedule.

Too many chances were blown during the first 8, particularly Dallas, New York, San Diego,
and Indy. All of those games were failures of focus, preparation, and idiocy (Colts game especially.)
The same could be said for the KC and Washington games, but they lucked-out with
wins.

The Texans will actually have to play GOOD to get wins in the next 8 games.

Kyle Orton ain't no slouch, and this secondary doesn't need a big-name
receiver in order to get burned. Teams don't even try to run on the Texans
anymore, because they can stuff their faces in the passing game.

HTown2ATX
11-11-2010, 11:57 AM
I don't see a "string of wins " period at the end of this schedule.

There's literally "Nowhere to Hide" on the back half of the 2010 schedule.

Too many chances were blown during the first 8, particularly Dallas, New York, San Diego,
and Indy. All of those games were failures of focus, preparation, and idiocy (Colts game especially.)
The same could be said for the KC and Washington games, but they lucked-out with
wins.

The Texans will actually have to play GOOD to get wins in the next 8 games.

Kyle Orton ain't no slouch, and this secondary doesn't need a big-name
receiver in order to get burned. Teams don't even try to run on the Texans
anymore, because they can stuff their faces in the passing game.

.....the ball is caught...again....by Bareley Competent Reciever who gingerly steps in the endzone where Eugene Wilson has left rose pedals and a fruit basket for him. :gun:

El Tejano
11-11-2010, 12:00 PM
.....the ball is caught...again....by Barley Competent Reciever who gingerly steps in the endzone where Eugene Wilson has left rose pedals and a fruit basket for him. :gun:

Kareem Jackson will fall down.

HTown2ATX
11-11-2010, 12:02 PM
Kareem Jackson will fall down.

^^This. Lol.. I keep listening to that....too funny. That is actually the IM message for a buddy of mine's AIM at work. lol

This secondary is the State Farm of secondaries. Like a good neighbor they are always there to clear a lane for the opposing wideouts and make sure they don't get tackled or hit too hard and act as slump busters and career day makers for no namers.

Like a good neighbor man....:kubepalm:

El Tejano
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
Okay so I'm at home yesterday coming to grips that playoffs could pretty much have to wait for next year......again.

All of a sudden, I'm watching ESPN, and Herm Edwards starts talking crazy. He brings home the point that, the month of November is a very hard month because everyone is racing to 10 wins. He says that right now no game is an easy win for anybody. Then he points out that teams that are 4-4 should still have hope going in the locker room because the best record in the NFL right now is 6-2 and most of the division leaders still haven't played all three of the first three division games. He pointed out that most teams are going to end the season playing 5 to 6 division games in the last 8 weeks. He kept saying "do the math".

Now I'm feeling a bit more optimistic but kicking myself at the same time because I know we have to win 6 of our last 8 to have a chance to get in and that requires consistency, which is something we haven't shown all season. I guess false hope is better than no hope right?

Thorn
11-11-2010, 12:12 PM
I guess false hope is better than no hope right?

Spoken like a veteran Houston NFL fan.

El Tejano
11-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Spoken like a veteran Houston NFL fan.

Luv ya blue baby!!!

Thorn
11-11-2010, 12:15 PM
Luv ya blue baby!!!

Don't forget to shake that powder blue pom pom when you say that!! LOL

Second Honeymoon
11-11-2010, 12:36 PM
FWIW....

On 610 this morning around 7:15a.m. during the "No Huddle" segment, Van der Meer said that he talked to Bob McNair while at the Texans facility recently and that Bob said it was ok for Marc to repeat some of it on air.

Apparently what Bob said was that he was misunderstood about his comments on Gary. He said that he knows things are unacceptable right now and that fans are not happy. He recognizes the negative trend and that it is not going to be acceptable. However, they are currently 4-4 so he is not considereing making any changes at this time.

So basically he was trying to let fans and everyone know I guess through Marc that he is not blind but the current record does not merit serious action yet.

If this is true I can understand it. I'm tired of Kubes bull**** at this point, but, changing coaches does nothing mid season so, unless there is a monumental collapse I think GK has until the end of the year to wiin minimum 11 games (7-1 rest of season) and possibly make the playoffs. If not, then we see if Bob pulls the trigger.

now that is some good news and it seems that McNair might actually be listening to his fanbase and trying to put together a winner.

if what marc says is true, and i don't think he would be dumb enough to misquote his employer, then McNair must be seeing the light, so to speak.

i do agree with McNair and the majority of fans on this board that is WAY too early to talk about making a coaching change in-season. In fact, I do not support them making a coaching change before the end of the season. The only way I would even partially support such a change is if the team continues to sleepwalk through the season and if firing Kubiak a bit early was necessary in order to lock up certain high profile Head Coaching candidates.

The only guys I would fire Kubiak early for would be Cowher and Jimmy Johnson....and JJ likes corona and his boat too much to come back to the NFL in my opinion.

Hopefully all this talk is for naught and the Texans start playing well and get to the playoffs. if it doesn't happen here are my HC candidates in order of preference. Either way, I feel better about things after what Marc heard from Bob. No way in hell is Kubiak doing a fine job.

Bill Cowher
Jimmy Johnson
Jim Harbaugh
Mike Holmgren
Jon Gruden
Nick Saban
Marty Schottenheimer
John Fox
and last but not least....Wade Phillips...not.

we need inspiration and not hibernation. sorry wade.

painekiller
11-11-2010, 01:43 PM
PK,

Just my point. I was actually responding in a very sarcastic manner to the 7-1 statement.

Sorry I missed the smiley, the post was out of character for triple N which is why I responded. Thank you for clearing it up for me.

El Tejano
11-11-2010, 01:46 PM
No way in hell is Kubiak doing a fine job.

Bill Cowher
Jimmy Johnson
Jim Harbaugh
Mike Holmgren
Jon Gruden
Nick Saban
Marty Schottenheimer
John Fox
and last but not least....Wade Phillips...not.

we need inspiration and not hibernation. sorry wade.

I'd be down for Cowher
If John Fox is gone and Cowher takes his place in Carolina, I wouldn't mind John Fox.
Jimmy Johnson loves his current gig way to much.
Harbaugh has his team in contention to win the division, doubt he even gets fired.
Mike Holmgren is a GM for the Browns. No way he is leaving that gig.
Jon Gruden would be nice. I think he would be able to put fire into these players.
You have to be kidding me about Nick Saban.
Marty Schottenheimer would do well as a coach to get us in the playoffs. If people want us to run the ball more, oh you better believe we will run the ball more.
Wade would be cool if we get him as DC.

DexmanC
11-11-2010, 01:51 PM
Harbaugh has his team in contention to win the division, doubt he even gets fired.


Are you confusing Jim Harbaugh with his brother, and current Ravens head coach,
John Harbaugh?

thunderkyss
11-11-2010, 01:57 PM
But with Bob, who knows....a string of meaningless wins at the end to bring us to .500 may convince him to keep Kubes again.


Unless there is a new labor contract before the end of this season, don't expect Kubiak to go anywhere. McNair will not fire him (it's about as improbable as the 7-1 against the remainder of the schedule) & hire another coach without knowing if there will be any football in 2011.

Frank Bush leaving would make more sense, but if he gets this turned around & the defense "looks" like they did the last 13 weeks of 2009, that might not even happen.

Another possibility, would be hiring a "President of Football operations" This guy would be the buffer between Rick Smith & Kubiak. Hiring this guy would mean either one or both Kubiak/Smith would be gone in 2012.

wagonhed
11-11-2010, 02:07 PM
Could someone please explain to me how the labor situation would cause a coach not to be fired after the season? I'm not sure I understand, in fact I'm sure I don't understand.

DexmanC
11-11-2010, 02:14 PM
Unless there is a new labor contract before the end of this season, don't expect Kubiak to go anywhere. McNair will not fire him (it's about as improbable as the 7-1 against the remainder of the schedule) & hire another coach without knowing if there will be any football in 2011.

Frank Bush leaving would make more sense, but if he gets this turned around & the defense "looks" like they did the last 13 weeks of 2009, that might not even happen.

Another possibility, would be hiring a "President of Football operations" This guy would be the buffer between Rick Smith & Kubiak. Hiring this guy would mean either one or both Kubiak/Smith would be gone in 2012.

Kubiak had his chance to hire a DC last year, when they fired Richard Smith.
Kubiak CHOSE not to interview ANYBODY EXCEPT Frank Bush.

Should that decision be the reason this season has failed, and thus
his stint with the Texans should end, then so be it.

ChampionTexan
11-11-2010, 02:23 PM
Could someone please explain to me how the labor situation would cause a coach not to be fired after the season? I'm not sure I understand, in fact I'm sure I don't understand.

As long as there's the possibility of a lockout, then firing a coach currently under contract and hiring a new coach means there's the possiblity that you will be paying both the old coach and the new coach to do nothing.

That's a little bit overstated, as the new coach could still do a number of things, but the point remains that it would risk a new (possibly high-dollar) contract, while still having to honor an old (again - possibly high-dollar) contract, and not having a team or a season.

Hervoyel
11-11-2010, 02:23 PM
Question. Do the truly good defenses look good consistently throughout a season (with the obvious caveat of injury causing a dip in their performance) or do they also suck for 4-8 weeks and then suddenly get good for the rest of the year?

The reason I ask is that nobody ever talks about how the Ravens D stinks it up out of the gate every year but then gets it together and turns into a monster. The Pittsburgh D went kind of "teets up" without Polamalu that time but that's the injury thing.

I think we get better over the second half of the season because we conveniently run into teams with poor offenses and good teams with their eyes on the playoffs. I think our late season defensive surge is an illusion and not something to get excited about.

Kind of like our run defense. We aren't good against the run as many were saying earlier in the year. It's just that nobody bothers to run the ball when they can throw it at will.

Double Barrel
11-11-2010, 02:53 PM
Unless there is a new labor contract before the end of this season, don't expect Kubiak to go anywhere. McNair will not fire him (it's about as improbable as the 7-1 against the remainder of the schedule) & hire another coach without knowing if there will be any football in 2011.

Frank Bush leaving would make more sense, but if he gets this turned around & the defense "looks" like they did the last 13 weeks of 2009, that might not even happen.

Another possibility, would be hiring a "President of Football operations" This guy would be the buffer between Rick Smith & Kubiak. Hiring this guy would mean either one or both Kubiak/Smith would be gone in 2012.

If I was a betting man, my money would be on the square of the above scenario. Unless there is a catastrophic meltdown over the next 8 games (think 1-7 or 2-6), I don't think Kubiak is a guaranteed goner, regardless of what Vandamere said on the radio. He's probably tired of taking these calls anyway, because those rain clouds obscure his sunny disposition.

I think Frank Bush will be a scapegoat and Kubiak gets a reprieve for one more season.

Could someone please explain to me how the labor situation would cause a coach not to be fired after the season? I'm not sure I understand, in fact I'm sure I don't understand.

From what I've read, there will not be any spring practices if they do not resolve the labor issue. Installing a new head coach and all the subsequent coordinators and their systems would be a very tough task without a solid start in January. This is just the perspectives that I've read, so take them for what they're worth.

drewmar74
11-11-2010, 03:06 PM
From what I've read, there will not be any spring practices if they do not resolve the labor issue. Installing a new head coach and all the subsequent coordinators and their systems would be a very tough task without a solid start in January. This is just the perspectives that I've read, so take them for what they're worth.

If this happens, I'd bet that no matter what happens on the D (new coordinator, new head coach, whatever) we stick with the 4-3.

Brisco_County
11-11-2010, 03:14 PM
Could someone please explain to me how the labor situation would cause a coach not to be fired after the season? I'm not sure I understand, in fact I'm sure I don't understand.

There are no OTA's or training camp before a lockout. A new coach requires that to implement his new system.


If this happens, I'd bet that no matter what happens on the D (new coordinator, new head coach, whatever) we stick with the 4-3.

You can't change to a 3-4 without a powerful NT. The Packers were able to do it because they drafted BJ Raji. If our new coach got a special DT like Raji, then it's very doable with Cushing and Barwin as OLB's.

drewmar74
11-11-2010, 03:48 PM
You can't change to a 3-4 without a powerful NT. The Packers were able to do it because they drafted BJ Raji. If our new coach got a special DT like Raji, then it's very doable with Cushing and Barwin as OLB's.

Right. And I'm sure they worked all offseason on the switch.

Based on what I read in DB's post, there would be precious little offseason to get reps in.

Lucky
11-11-2010, 06:33 PM
Unless there is a new labor contract before the end of this season, don't expect Kubiak to go anywhere. McNair will not fire him (it's about as improbable as the 7-1 against the remainder of the schedule) & hire another coach without knowing if there will be any football in 2011.
Why not? I would like to have this fully explained, as I've seen others make this identical claim.

I think Frank Bush will be a scapegoat and Kubiak gets a reprieve for one more season.

From what I've read, there will not be any spring practices if they do not resolve the labor issue. Installing a new head coach and all the subsequent coordinators and their systems would be a very tough task without a solid start in January. This is just the perspectives that I've read, so take them for what they're worth.
I think that's overblown. The new coach would bring in some type of WCO. The linemen (other than maybe Myers) could adapt to a power blocking scheme, if necessary. And there would have to be a new defensive scheme regardless. Not firing Kubiak due to bogus concerns over the labor situation would be an incredibly weak move on McNair's part.

thunderkyss
11-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Kubiak had his chance to hire a DC last year, when they fired Richard Smith.
Kubiak CHOSE not to interview ANYBODY EXCEPT Frank Bush.

Should that decision be the reason this season has failed, and thus
his stint with the Texans should end, then so be it.

I hope you read the posts following this, where the situation I presented was explained in more depth, because you obviously did not understand one thought in my post.

TexansSeminole
11-11-2010, 11:57 PM
Not firing Kubiak due to bogus concerns over the labor situation would be an incredibly weak move on McNair's part.

I sure hope that deters him from this line of thinking then. I think McNair will fire Kubiak if we go 8-8. I don't know about 9-7, I doubt he will fire him. 10-6 and Kubiak is here to stay.

I'm not one who thinks that McNair is in it all for the profits. He's a noob as DB would say, and when he doesn't want to go from competitive to horrid. I think another year of mediocrity will convince him to find another coach, especially with the way we've been playing/losing so far.

HTown2ATX
11-12-2010, 08:39 AM
I sure hope that deters him from this line of thinking then. I think McNair will fire Kubiak if we go 8-8. I don't know about 9-7, I doubt he will fire him. 10-6 and Kubiak is here to stay.

I'm not one who thinks that McNair is in it all for the profits. He's a noob as DB would say, and when he doesn't want to go from competitive to horrid. I think another year of mediocrity will convince him to find another coach, especially with the way we've been playing/losing so far.

I don't know. I think Kube could even skate by on 7-9 this year unfortunately. He'll pitch it as suspensions and injury hurt us and Texans had the #1 toughest SOS this year. All teams we have played so far are above .500...yada, yada, yada.

This in addition to the extension that was signed and the possible labor stuff....could be same song and dance next year even if 7-9.

Texas T
11-12-2010, 09:02 AM
Why not? I would like to have this fully explained, as I've seen others make this identical claim.

I think that's overblown. The new coach would bring in some type of WCO. The linemen (other than maybe Myers) could adapt to a power blocking scheme, if necessary. And there would have to be a new defensive scheme regardless. Not firing Kubiak due to bogus concerns over the labor situation would be an incredibly weak move on McNair's part.

As DB was saying, if there is no agreement, the Owners would lockout the players.

This means that no players would be allowed into the training facilities until an agreement is reached.

Now if the lockout lasts thoughout the traditional training camp/preseason times, there may be no time for a new coach to institute his ideas.

If this is the case, imagine (as the owner) hiring Cowher, paying both him and Kubs, having no practices prior to the season starting, converting to Cowher's 3-4, and having a fan base that would not accept this as a reason for not making the playoffs in the first season with a great coach like Cowher.

See any problems (again as an owner) with this??

This is where everyone with these same ideas are coming from, I think most of us would rather have the known (Kubs) for another year and our normal product rather than the unknown (anyone else) and a complete change with no chance to change.

Now if the team plays horrible and finishes 1-7...all bets are off and I don't think that with the talent on this team right now that a new coach could do much worse.

But the whole season much finish before any judgement can be made, so I'll just hang tight and root for my TEXANS to win out and make the playoffs!

steelbtexan
11-12-2010, 09:30 AM
As long as there's the possibility of a lockout, then firing a coach currently under contract and hiring a new coach means there's the possiblity that you will be paying both the old coach and the new coach to do nothing.

That's a little bit overstated, as the new coach could still do a number of things, but the point remains that it would risk a new (possibly high-dollar) contract, while still having to honor an old (again - possibly high-dollar) contract, and not having a team or a season.

^^^^
This

It's all about $$$$$

The excuse that a new defense/offense cant be put in place this offseason doesn't hold water. IMHO

When your as bad as this team on defense you could send 11 guys out on the field and tell them to do whatever they want to and it wuld be an improvement over the current defense.

This teams defense has regressed to the first 3 games of last yr level. Which is one of the worst defenses in NFL history level.

infantrycak
11-12-2010, 09:49 AM
The excuse that a new defense/offense cant be put in place this offseason doesn't hold water. IMHO

Depends on when the lockout/strike begins. I believe the league year starts in March. If it wipes out OTA's, training camp and preseason then it about a lot more than money. The players can't be at the facility. The coach won't have more than the ideas in his mind.

By the way, the owners are trying to set this up to be a strike. They have been making proposals to the players. Unless those are deemed unreasonable the owners can invoke a rule which would require the players to perform next year under this years standards and if they refused they would be deemed to be striking rather than it being a lock out.

Double Barrel
11-12-2010, 09:57 AM
Why not? I would like to have this fully explained, as I've seen others make this identical claim.

I think that's overblown. The new coach would bring in some type of WCO. The linemen (other than maybe Myers) could adapt to a power blocking scheme, if necessary. And there would have to be a new defensive scheme regardless. Not firing Kubiak due to bogus concerns over the labor situation would be an incredibly weak move on McNair's part.

I don't disagree with you and was offering that perspective as 'food for thought'.

I view hiring a new HC as a long term commitment, so the short term potential scenario of a lock out should not be as big of a concern, all things considered. The 2011 season would be a learning curve regardless of when they start practicing, so I hope that McNair doesn't base his decisions on these short term potentials.

We are going to see a coaching change at some level, be it the HC or a DC. Either way, a lock out is potentially going to effect, at minimum, about half the team if they install a new defensive system.

Second Honeymoon
11-12-2010, 10:11 AM
Depends on when the lockout/strike begins. I believe the league year starts in March. If it wipes out OTA's, training camp and preseason then it about a lot more than money. The players can't be at the facility. The coach won't have more than the ideas in his mind.

By the way, the owners are trying to set this up to be a strike. They have been making proposals to the players. Unless those are deemed unreasonable the owners can invoke a rule which would require the players to perform next year under this years standards and if they refused they would be deemed to be striking rather than it being a lock out.

The players would love to play in current deal
The owners want a new deal
The owners get their TV money, season or no season
Owners will win but will it be less $$ for 16
Or same $$ for 18 reg season games

ChampionTexan
11-12-2010, 10:17 AM
FWIW, Don Banks from SI was on Matt and Adam's show this morning, and the question of the lockout potentially saving a coaches job for a year came up.

His response was that earlier he was told and believed that there would be fewer coaching changes (head coach) because of the potential lockout. However, now that some more time has passed, he's so not sure that will actually be the case.

He didn't go into much/any of the basis for either his original position, or his current one.

Ole Miss Texan
11-12-2010, 10:25 AM
The players would love to play in current deal
The owners want a new deal
The owners get their TV money, season or no season
Owners will win but will it be less $$ for 16
Or same $$ for 18 reg season games
Assuming the lockout/strike does happen:

Franchises receive TV money which is roughly 50% of their revenue.
Other half is earned from ticket sales, concession sales, merchandise, etc.

I assume the organizations would earn $0 from tickets/concessions? Mechandise sales (shared among teams?) would still happen albeit at a fraction of what sales would be given games were played.

How are players/coaches/staff/employees of each organization paid? Would certain people not be paid at all? I'd assume these expenses would still go on... if you stopped paying your employees (finance, accounting, etc etc) these people are going to find other jobs and then once another season picks up your going to have to replace them, mostly likely with new people that don't have the experience with your club.

I see a decline in local business revenue happening as well. Think about the hotels/restaurants that earn income from traveling players and fans. Think about the local bars/restaurants the are packed each Sunday watching games. No NFL would really put a hurting on small businesses in my opinion.

Lucky
11-12-2010, 06:06 PM
...I think most of us would rather have the known (Kubs) for another year and our normal product rather than the unknown (anyone else)...
"Most of us"? I think the majority of Texan fans feel differently. The "known" isn't good enough. "Most of us", I believe, will go for door #2.

DexmanC
11-12-2010, 06:14 PM
"Most of us"? I think the majority of Texan fans feel differently. The "known" isn't good enough. "Most of us", I believe, will go for door #2.

Exactly. Sticking with mediocre, just because we know what we've got
is a slow death. The risk of the unknown is invigorating, just like the
dating scene, job market, business, school, travelling, etc.

thunderkyss
11-13-2010, 08:45 AM
"Most of us"? I think the majority of Texan fans feel differently. The "known" isn't good enough. "Most of us", I believe, will go for door #2.

I pick door #3: let him finish the rest of the season, then let's decide