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DexmanC
11-03-2010, 01:59 PM
Kubiak's Record against teams with winning records: 8-22

Kubiak's Record against the AFC South: 8-18

Both sets of numbers indicate Kubiak to be a total failure as a head coach;
however, they are equally important when determining playoff berths.

This regime has been a colossal failure so far, and the NFL didn't schedule
enough "little sisters of the poor" to hide it in 2010. This is a 6-10, 5-11 type
season, now that there are no ways to "pad the stats."

The Colts game was illustrative of the causes of those records, and the rest of
our opponents are JUST the type of teams the Texans rarely (if ever) beat.

Ryan
11-03-2010, 02:00 PM
Well at least Kubiak "job-saving" mode will begin next week if we lose to the Chargers...he usually seems to coach well when he has to. :kubepalm:

HTown2ATX
11-03-2010, 02:16 PM
I'm not in the Fire Kubiak club yet as proven by my statements on here.

I am also not in the "all is well" camp either as I have been one of the harshest critics of this team so far this year. (Had to put the disclaimer out there :tiphat: )

I will say though that it is somewhat funny that we still have a winning record but are ready to blow it up. I understand why though, this defense blows (Indy game was not that bad TK I know that, but rest of games have been horrid on D) and the playcalling/scheming and just everything offensively for Indy blew burro juevos.

It just sux that we have a 4-3 team but we know that chances are it's not gonna last and we need to start getting ready to rebuild.... :(

This must be what being a Philadelphia area fan is like....... I refuse to throw batteries damnit!

BigBull17
11-03-2010, 02:19 PM
Wow, damning. Winning Monday would have gone a long way towards a culture change. He is a ****ing loser. This is from a guy who has been a big supporter.

Hookem Horns
11-03-2010, 02:26 PM
I will say though that it is somewhat funny that we still have a winning record but are ready to blow it up.

I don't think anything needs to be "blown up". This team does not need to be rebuilt. It just needs someone that can get the most out of all the talent here (tweak some things) and bring in a winning/tougher attitude.

I think a good coach can come here and immediately take this team to the playoffs the first season. That is why it was rumored that Cowher would be interested in this job because of the talent that he would have to work with. He felt he could win instantly without being involved in a rebuild project.

beerlover
11-03-2010, 02:39 PM
I don't think anything needs to be "blown up". This team does not need to be rebuilt. It just needs someone that can get the most out of all the talent here (tweak some things) and bring in a winning/tougher attitude.

I think a good coach can come here and immediately take this team to the playoffs the first season. That is why it was rumored that Cowher would be interested in this job because of the talent that he would have to work with. He felt he could win instantly without being involved in a rebuild project.

This is my first time to jump on the Cowher wagon :cow:

one: will improve the defense
two: will run the ball more

HTown2ATX
11-03-2010, 02:45 PM
I don't think anything needs to be "blown up". This team does not need to be rebuilt. It just needs someone that can get the most out of all the talent here (tweak some things) and bring in a winning/tougher attitude.

I think a good coach can come here and immediately take this team to the playoffs the first season. That is why it was rumored that Cowher would be interested in this job because of the talent that he would have to work with. He felt he could win instantly without being involved in a rebuild project.

There would be a change over on D (doesn't Cowher like to run the 3-4?) If so that is not immediate. Even with a 4-3, if he sticks to that, the guys on D would have to actually, you know, learn how to ACTUALLY play D in a 4-3 = time :kubepalm: :)

The o-line is not what he would want for a power run game IMO. I think the trenches and overall Defensive scheme would take a little time. So, no, I'm not implying a 2005-esque rebuild or an Astros type "blow up" but something that I would still see as not immediate. However, they will probably at least play like they don't wear Junior XSm jock straps........

Also, overall I see him as out the door and will support that when the time comes (anything less than 10 wins in my mind) but I wanna give it the rest of the season before I sport the soap. But as I said in that original post, I'm definitely not on the "supporting Kubiak" side right now.

Hervoyel
11-03-2010, 02:49 PM
I don't think anything needs to be "blown up". This team does not need to be rebuilt. It just needs someone that can get the most out of all the talent here (tweak some things) and bring in a winning/tougher attitude.

I think a good coach can come here and immediately take this team to the playoffs the first season. That is why it was rumored that Cowher would be interested in this job because of the talent that he would have to work with. He felt he could win instantly without being involved in a rebuild project.

That's where I'm coming from. Kubiak and Smith have put together a nice team. We're a few pieces shy of the whole package but we've got talent here and some depth. What we don't have is coaching that can reach these players. They may like Gary and want to win for him but they clearly aren't getting whatever it takes to make them execute on game day. That they can look good at times on both sides of the ball says to me that they're talented and that the systems they are running are not completely without merit.

They're just losing against good teams despite that fact.

Ole Miss Texan
11-03-2010, 03:02 PM
That is just terrible. Awful awful awful.

With that said, I did some of my own calculations just for the hell of it. And because I am a Kubiak supporter that loves stats. ;) lol

Kubiak against Teams with Winning Records:
2006-2009 (full seasons only): 8-18 (31% winning pct)
2006 to date: 10-22 (31%)
2006: 1-5 (16.67%)
2007: 2-7 (22%)
2008: 3-6 (33%)
2009: 2-4 (33%)
2010: 2-2 (50%)

Interestingly enough, we have witnessed progress each season.

Next I took out the Texans games from our opponents W/L column to see if we had any significant effect on their overall outcome.

Kubiak against Teams with Winning Records (excl. Texans games):
2006-2009 (full seasons only): 11-22 (33% winning pct)
2006 to date: 15-24 (38%)
2006: 3-5 (37%)
2007: 2-7 (22%)
2008: 3-6 (33%)
2009: 3-4 (43%)
2010: 4-2 (66%)

Double Barrel
11-03-2010, 03:08 PM
There would be a change over on D (doesn't Cowher like to run the 3-4?) If so that is not immediate. Even with a 4-3, if he sticks to that, the guys on D would have to actually, you know, learn how to ACTUALLY play D in a 4-3 = time :kubepalm: :)

The o-line is not what he would want for a power run game IMO. I think the trenches and overall Defensive scheme would take a little time. So, no, I'm not implying a 2005-esque rebuild or an Astros type "blow up" but something that I would still see as not immediate. However, they will probably at least play like they don't wear Junior XSm jock straps........

Also, overall I see him as out the door and will support that when the time comes (anything less than 10 wins in my mind) but I wanna give it the rest of the season before I sport the soap. But as I said in that original post, I'm definitely not on the "supporting Kubiak" side right now.

You're worried that implementing a 3-4 might make us...worse than 32nd ranked? :um:

A complete overhaul of our defense could not make them any worse than they are at this point, and I'd argue that someone like Cowher would make them better just by instilling the right attitude and attention to fundamentals.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but I don't hate the guy. I don't think he's cut out for this head coaching job, but that being said, he's our coach so let's see how the rest of this 4-3 season plays out. If we should beat the Chargers, we'd be 5-3 and I'm sure every Texans fan would have been happy with that record at the start of the season. And Kubiak's teams have traditionally finished the season strong, so there is still hope that this season is successful.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel at this point, but that doesn't mean I'm wearing blinders, either. I'll call it like I see it, praise where/when it's due, and criticize when/where, as well.

DexmanC
11-03-2010, 03:12 PM
You're worried that implementing a 3-4 might make us...worse than 32nd ranked? :um:

A complete overhaul of our defense could not make them any worse than they are at this point, and I'd argue that someone like Cowher would make them better just by instilling the right attitude and attention to fundamentals.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but I don't hate the guy. I don't think he's cut out for this head coaching job, but that being said, he's our coach so let's see how the rest of this 4-3 season plays out. If we should beat the Chargers, we'd be 5-3 and I'm sure every Texans fan would have been happy with that record at the start of the season. And Kubiak's teams have traditionally finished the season strong, so there is still hope that this season is successful.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel at this point, but that doesn't mean I'm wearing blinders, either. I'll call it like I see it, praise where/when it's due, and criticize when/where, as well.

Maybe Ole Miss Numbers can crunch that, but my observation tells me
the last 4 games of the Texans' "strong finishes" are smoke-n-mirrors.

They were all against struggling teams, or teams that had clinched playoff
berths, and were resting key players. There was no sense of urgency for
the Texans' opponents, thus it was all something the Texans' Marketing
Department continually propagates ast "progress." I call "BULL$lksjsldasd;"

HOU-TEX
11-03-2010, 03:15 PM
You're worried that implementing a 3-4 might make us...worse than 32nd ranked? :um:

A complete overhaul of our defense could not make them any worse than they are at this point, and I'd argue that someone like Cowher would make them better just by instilling the right attitude and attention to fundamentals.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but I don't hate the guy. I don't think he's cut out for this head coaching job, but that being said, he's our coach so let's see how the rest of this 4-3 season plays out. If we should beat the Chargers, we'd be 5-3 and I'm sure every Texans fan would have been happy with that record at the start of the season. And Kubiak's teams have traditionally finished the season strong, so there is still hope that this season is successful.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel at this point, but that doesn't mean I'm wearing blinders, either. I'll call it like I see it, praise where/when it's due, and criticize when/where, as well.

Couldn't have said it better, DB. I've never been a fan of whacking a coach during the season. I'm severely disappointed in his coaching thus far, but willing to see how this season pays itself out.

FirstTexansFan
11-03-2010, 03:16 PM
I wonder how many of those teams with winning records are teams that play smash mouth football as opposed to Kubiak's finesse play?

Texan_Bill
11-03-2010, 03:29 PM
You're worried that implementing a 3-4 might make us...worse than 32nd ranked? :um:

True. The 3-4 defense that went 2-14 was ranked 31st!! :gamer:


:texflag:

Hardcore Texan
11-03-2010, 03:34 PM
You're worried that implementing a 3-4 might make us...worse than 32nd ranked? :um:

A complete overhaul of our defense could not make them any worse than they are at this point, and I'd argue that someone like Cowher would make them better just by instilling the right attitude and attention to fundamentals.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but I don't hate the guy. I don't think he's cut out for this head coaching job, but that being said, he's our coach so let's see how the rest of this 4-3 season plays out. If we should beat the Chargers, we'd be 5-3 and I'm sure every Texans fan would have been happy with that record at the start of the season. And Kubiak's teams have traditionally finished the season strong, so there is still hope that this season is successful.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel at this point, but that doesn't mean I'm wearing blinders, either. I'll call it like I see it, praise where/when it's due, and criticize when/where, as well.

I agree. Still a lot of football left and I am not calling for any heads just yet. I am not a bucket of sunshine either. Nothing will happen until the offseason anyway. We need to hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Unfortunately I think we go some around 8-8......again.

spurstexanstros
11-03-2010, 03:47 PM
patience soapers....patience if Kubiak;s led team doesnt make the playoffs then you have a bone to pick until then...patience

DexmanC
11-03-2010, 03:51 PM
patience soapers....patience if Kubiak;s led team doesnt make the playoffs then you have a bone to pick until then...patience

We have a bone to pick now, because of what we see on the field.
The way they are playing is good enough to beat bad-to-average teams,
but against the gauntlet of championship contenders we face, it'll get
us slaughtered.

The Texans didn't lose a "what if" game. They played EXACTLY as they
had in SIX of SEVEN games, and against the playoff teams, it'll get
ya smashed. The defense is a sieve, and the offense folds when hit
hard. We've got plenty bones to pick, right now.

steelbtexan
11-03-2010, 03:57 PM
I'm not ready to throw in the towel. But I'm reserving judgement for the next few games. Right now it's not loooking good.

I cant belive that some of the MB members dont believe that a defense that's ranked 32 are fretting over how this defense will play if it's rebuilt by a guy like Cowher.

It's got to look better than the last place defense that is currently in place.

My biggest problem with the Smithiak regime is they aren't tough enough in the trenches. Until this gets corrected this will continue to be a 6-10,10-6 team with no chance of making noise in the playoffs. If they ever get there.

They need to get tougher wether it be under Smithiak or whoever the new regime is.

DexmanC
11-03-2010, 04:06 PM
I'm not ready to throw in the towel. But I'm reserving judgement for the next few games. Right now it's not loooking good.

I cant belive that some of the MB members dont believe that a defense that's ranked 32 are fretting over how this defense will play if it's rebuilt by a guy like Cowher.

It's got to look better than the last place defense that is currently in place.

My biggest problem with the Smithiak regime is they aren't tough enough in the trenches. Until this gets corrected this will continue to be a 6-10,10-6 team with no chance of making noise in the playoffs. If they ever get there.

They need to get tougher wether it be under Smithiak or whoever the new regime is.

It's not about size, either. The Titans have a line composed of canned
hams, but they are coached up to a point where they dominate the
line on both sides of the ball. This is a mental hole in the Texans' regime.
The current coaching staff has proven inept in this category.

badboy
11-03-2010, 04:09 PM
There would be a change over on D (doesn't Cowher like to run the 3-4?) If so that is not immediate. Even with a 4-3, if he sticks to that, the guys on D would have to actually, you know, learn how to ACTUALLY play D in a 4-3 = time :kubepalm: :)

The o-line is not what he would want for a power run game IMO. I think the trenches and overall Defensive scheme would take a little time. So, no, I'm not implying a 2005-esque rebuild or an Astros type "blow up" but something that I would still see as not immediate. However, they will probably at least play like they don't wear Junior XSm jock straps........

Also, overall I see him as out the door and will support that when the time comes (anything less than 10 wins in my mind) but I wanna give it the rest of the season before I sport the soap. But as I said in that original post, I'm definitely not on the "supporting Kubiak" side right now.Agreed but I do think Cower could run this 4-3 but would make some changes. I prefer a more drive the D back rather than ZBS. I am quickly running out of patience with Gary but I still support him. He needs to start his "win for the coach" this week.

Texan_Bill
11-03-2010, 04:15 PM
patience soapers....patience if Kubiak;s led team doesnt make the playoffs then you have a bone to pick until then...patience

Oh my young grasshopper, as you get older, wiser, you will learn this about some people: Some people aren't happy unless they're bitching and moaning and starting redundant threads all to spew the same redundant crap..over and over and over and over and over...

Come to think about it, was talking about soapers or my ex?? :thinking:

JB
11-03-2010, 04:19 PM
Oh my young grasshopper, as you get older, wiser, you will learn this about some people: Some people aren't happy unless they're bitching and moaning and starting redundant threads all to spew the same redundant crap..over and over and over and over and over...

Come to think about it, was talking about soapers or my ex?? :thinking:

http://i766.photobucket.com/albums/xx307/TexanJB/smileys/EB.jpg

Ole Miss Texan
11-03-2010, 04:24 PM
32nd ranked defense. Can't get any worse?

Sure as heck we can. We're giving up 28.1 points per game. That's 29th in the league... I don't care if that was 32nd in the league though for arguements sake. If we stay the 32nd ranked defense (thats measured by yards) but our defense allows one less TD per game, that would put us middle of the pack in PPG. That's huge improvement.

If we give up less yards per game and jump to the middle of the pack but we're still giving up 28, 29, 30 points per game.... that IS worse. That's much more losses than we have.

Look at San Diego. They're #1 in Defense because that's measured by yards allowed. But they're 19th in allowing points. In SD's case, I think it's their offense that is distorting their defense's numbers, for better or worse. Although the Chargers are #1 in offense (the magical yards ranking), they are 30th in turnover ratio. They've had 19 turnovers. That means opposing offenses have had less to travel to score their points. Makes their defense look better than they may actually be.

If the 2nd half of the season their offense stops turning the ball, opposing teams will have to travel more, their yards allowed will likely increase, their defensive ranking will fall and everyone will be wonder why SD's defense got worse. When in fact it may have nothing to do with their defense.

You can't just look at one ranking of 32nd and think that's the bottom point. It could get a lot worse than that. I'd gladly give up yards and yards and yards, be ranked 32nd, but if we're forcing turnovers in the red zone or holding teams to FGs, that gives us a much better shot at winning games. That's another problem we're having those is not getting to the QB and forcing TOs.

False Start
11-03-2010, 04:27 PM
I don't think anything needs to be "blown up". This team does not need to be rebuilt. It just needs someone that can get the most out of all the talent here (tweak some things) and bring in a winning/tougher attitude.

I think a good coach can come here and immediately take this team to the playoffs the first season. That is why it was rumored that Cowher would be interested in this job because of the talent that he would have to work with. He felt he could win instantly without being involved in a rebuild project.

This is my first time to jump on the Cowher wagon :cow:

one: will improve the defense
two: will run the ball more


I guess its time for the new campaign sig:

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/3852/cowher20111.jpg

fiasco west
11-03-2010, 04:42 PM
Put me on the Cowher bandwagon if there is room. The only way Kubiak is going to win back my personal support as him for a Head coach is if we finish this season strong...As in lose only 1-3 games from here on out.

Wins against teams like the Ravens and Jets would also help. Sorry,i'm tired of the team being mediocre. If the ownership accepts average then average is what we'll get. It's about time this team goes to that next level.

Double Barrel
11-03-2010, 04:47 PM
Maybe Ole Miss Numbers can crunch that, but my observation tells me
the last 4 games of the Texans' "strong finishes" are smoke-n-mirrors.

They were all against struggling teams, or teams that had clinched playoff
berths, and were resting key players. There was no sense of urgency for
the Texans' opponents, thus it was all something the Texans' Marketing
Department continually propagates ast "progress." I call "BULL$lksjsldasd;"

Perhaps, man...I don't disagree with you and tend to lean with your perspective...I'm just trying to find something positive to hang our hats on since we still have 9 games left and they still have a winning record...for the moment, at least...although most of those 9 games are against some tough opponents...

Couldn't have said it better, DB. I've never been a fan of whacking a coach during the season. I'm severely disappointed in his coaching thus far, but willing to see how this season pays itself out.

No doubt about disappointment, especially after the last game. Even Joe Texan is expressing doubt, so you know Kubiak has effed up!

I agree. Still a lot of football left and I am not calling for any heads just yet. I am not a bucket of sunshine either. Nothing will happen until the offseason anyway. We need to hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Unfortunately I think we go some around 8-8......again.

I tend to agree about 8-8...maybe 9-7 if they "finish strong"...just good enough to keep Kubiak's job...*sigh*

patience soapers....patience if Kubiak;s led team doesnt make the playoffs then you have a bone to pick until then...patience

Lots and lots of patience, for sure, because I think there is the very real potential for another 8-8 or 9-7 season, which means yet another year of Kubiak and lots and lots of patience...

HTown2ATX
11-03-2010, 05:32 PM
You're worried that implementing a 3-4 might make us...worse than 32nd ranked? :um:

A complete overhaul of our defense could not make them any worse than they are at this point, and I'd argue that someone like Cowher would make them better just by instilling the right attitude and attention to fundamentals.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but I don't hate the guy. I don't think he's cut out for this head coaching job, but that being said, he's our coach so let's see how the rest of this 4-3 season plays out. If we should beat the Chargers, we'd be 5-3 and I'm sure every Texans fan would have been happy with that record at the start of the season. And Kubiak's teams have traditionally finished the season strong, so there is still hope that this season is successful.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel at this point, but that doesn't mean I'm wearing blinders, either. I'll call it like I see it, praise where/when it's due, and criticize when/where, as well.

I never said it would make us worse. I just said that it would take some time to install and run properly which was in response to Hookem saying it may not take too long to turn the keys over to someone else. Never said it would be worse.

I think we're on the same boat though for the most part. I am all for booting Kubes should we win less than 10 games.

thunderkyss
11-03-2010, 06:01 PM
This is a 6-10, 5-11 type
season, now that there are no ways to "pad the stats."


Just to be clear, you are saying this is a 6-10 team at best. If we get 7 wins, we would have exceeded what you thought this team/coach is capable of?

Is that correct?

The Texans didn't lose a "what if" game. They played EXACTLY as they
had in SIX of SEVEN games, and against the playoff teams, it'll get
ya smashed. The defense is a sieve, and the offense folds when hit
hard. We've got plenty bones to pick, right now.

This sieve of a defense allowed the Colts 23 points... 4 points more than what KC allowed. But you had good words for KC's defense, or do I have that wrong?

The offense folded after it was hit hard.... when did they hit us hard, was that before or after the two TDs we scored to open the third Qtr? Was it after that last drive that started on our 4 yards line, but ended on their 18?

.

Texecutioner
11-03-2010, 06:41 PM
There would be a change over on D (doesn't Cowher like to run the 3-4?) If so that is not immediate. Even with a 4-3, if he sticks to that, the guys on D would have to actually, you know, learn how to ACTUALLY play D in a 4-3 = time :kubepalm: :)



Well what a scary thought. God forbid the worst defense in the league gets an overhaul. Lol!! I can't believe you could sit here and say that this defense couldn't use an overhaul, a change of scheme, or a complete mix up. Who cares if the Texans created an entirely different scheme called the 2-5. We've never had a good defense under Kubiak and we flat out stink. We're a perfect example of a defense that "needs" an overhaul.

DexmanC
11-03-2010, 07:09 PM
Just to be clear, you are saying this is a 6-10 team at best. If we get 7 wins, we would have exceeded what you thought this team/coach is capable of?

Is that correct?


This sieve of a defense allowed the Colts 23 points... 4 points more than what KC allowed. But you had good words for KC's defense, or do I have that wrong?

The offense folded after it was hit hard.... when did they hit us hard, was that before or after the two TDs we scored to open the third Qtr? Was it after that last drive that started on our 4 yards line, but ended on their 18?

.

I'm waiting on Kubiak to SURPRISE me. We've gotten over 4 full seasons
of near-perfect .500 ball. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. This is a 5-11, 6-10 SEASON.
The TEAM is CAPABLE of much more, but the COACHING is SUB-PAR.


....bolded for clarity.

HTown2ATX
11-03-2010, 09:00 PM
Well what a scary thought. God forbid the worst defense in the league gets an overhaul. Lol!! I can't believe you could sit here and say that this defense couldn't use an overhaul, a change of scheme, or a complete mix up. Who cares if the Texans created an entirely different scheme called the 2-5. We've never had a good defense under Kubiak and we flat out stink. We're a perfect example of a defense that "needs" an overhaul.

:kubepalm:

:gun:

Never did I say that it would be a bad thing. Please read what that was in response to for context. Please also see in many, many, many threads about our Defense I have been as harsh as anyone on them. Seriously.

:kubepalm:

I have been as vocal as anyone about this Defense sucking balls. Been going round and round more than once with people who defend it.

Hookem said that the team would be quick to respond to a new coach and win immediately. My only response was that it may not be that quick.

Is changing schemes quick? No.

That is the sum total of what I said when in context.

:)

HTown2ATX
11-03-2010, 09:08 PM
I think a good coach can come here and immediately take this team to the playoffs the first season. That is why it was rumored that Cowher would be interested in this job because of the talent that he would have to work with. He felt he could win instantly without being involved in a rebuild project.


There would be a change over on D (doesn't Cowher like to run the 3-4?) If so that is not immediate. Even with a 4-3, if he sticks to that, the guys on D would have to actually, you know, learn how to ACTUALLY play D in a 4-3 = time

And here is just one example of something I said about our D after the Chiefs game found here.. (this was in response to someone else)

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1554407#post1554407

You're right. This siv like defense is getting effing old.

You really think if we played a good team we win yesterday playing like that (no, the Chiefs are not good......I'll call them good if they make the playoffs...as of now for all we know they are the 2009 Broncos. Hell, we let the Raiders back in the game when we played them.)

We play like that on MNF against Colts we win huh?

Think we win in December/January with crap like that??

Good luck man lol...

For me, personally, I'm done being satisfied with mediocrity and moral victories and a "w is a w" mentality. Guess some of us are in the minority of expecting more....

Another little gem....

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76588&page=2

Feel free to scroll through that to see me grill this crapfest D and this is only one thread out of a few I have flushed them down the toilet in.

So yes, in summation our D SUCKS. I hate this D and want something done about it but the simple fact is that it will not be overnight which we should all know.

I am basically just lamenting the fact that, IMO, the defense needs to be rebuilt....problem is it was never "built" so it's frustrating.

I rest my case.

Texecutioner
11-03-2010, 09:15 PM
:kubepalm:

:gun:

Never did I say that it would be a bad thing. Please read what that was in response to for context. Please also see in many, many, many threads about our Defense I have been as harsh as anyone on them. Seriously.

:kubepalm:

I have been as vocal as anyone about this Defense sucking balls. Been going round and round more than once with people who defend it.

Hookem said that the team would be quick to respond to a new coach and win immediately. My only response was that it may not be that quick.

Is changing schemes quick? No.

That is the sum total of what I said when in context.

:)

A scheme change can certainly change quickly. It all just depends on what pieces you currently have that would be effective in a 3-4 or a 4-3 if you were changing to that. There are a lot of players around the league that have skill sets that favor both. A lot of times it just depends on the DC and the position coaches that are running their scheme and how effective they are with the personal. I've seen plenty of teams improve their defense real fast in certain situations. You can do it in one off season if your GM finds the right guys that can fill missed holes in your unit.

RIght now the Texans just need a change on their defense. Any kind of change. IF we switched to a 3-4, what would it matter at this point? Could we get any worse? Possibly, but we just need a new coach that can implement his scheme period and one that will force either Mcnair or Smith's hand to finally legitamitely fill some holes on defense for a change in the off season. We've ignored the secondary for years and I've ranted about it on and on and over and over. I did all off season, and got fried for it from some people that felt our defense was actually good last season. Our secondary was pathetic last season and I don't even have a word that describes the current secondary. Our pass rush is a mythical illusion to say the least as well. A scheme change could possibly be a great thing at the rate we've been at. I'm not saying it's what I want, but if we get a new DC next season I'll roll with whatever he wants if he's the right guy that knows what he's doing.

HTown2ATX
11-03-2010, 09:18 PM
A scheme change can certainly change quickly. It all just depends on what pieces you currently have that would be effective in a 3-4 or a 4-3 if you were changing to that. There are a lot of players around the league that have skill sets that favor both. A lot of times it just depends on the DC and the position coaches that are running their scheme and how effective they are with the personal. I've seen plenty of teams improve their defense real fast in certain situations. You can do it in one off season if your GM finds the right guys that can fill missed holes in your unit.

RIght now the Texans just need a change on their defense. Any kind of change. IF we switched to a 3-4, what would it matter at this point? Could we get any worse? Possibly, but we just need a new coach that can implement his scheme period and one that will force either Mcnair or Smith's hand to finally legitamitely fill some holes on defense for a change in the off season.

Dude, somehow we are not connecting. I never mentioned that I am worried about us getting worse...........

Where did I say that???

I want to win now and it sucks that this is happening and YES, changing schemes coiuld possibly take some time.

This is all I'm saying. The D blows so bad they may as well stay off the field I get that. I never said I am worried about it somehow getting worse.

I just wish we didn't have to "potentially" have to spend another year fixing it.

I made my second post while you must have been typing so check that out as I think it helps illustrate my point more. :)

I'm killing time at my second job posting all this. Isn't easy as crap PT paycheck earning fun. :tiphat:

DexmanC
11-03-2010, 09:22 PM
Dude, somehow we are not connecting. I never mentioned that I am worried about us getting worse...........

Where did I say that???

I want to win now and it sucks that this is happening and YES, changing schemes coiuld possibly take some time.

This is all I'm saying. The D blows so bad they may as well stay off the field I get that. I never said I am worried about it somehow getting worse.

I just wish we didn't have to "potentially" have to spend another year fixing it.

The Rockets didn't lose season ticket holders when they decided to rebuild.
Reason is, the organization was HONEST about the situation, and gave
the fans the OPTION to ride with the process. The Astros LIED about
rebuilding, and spent a half-season with empty seats. When the
youngsters took over the team, they started selling out again.

Bottom line, rebuilding isn't so bad. When the organization lies about
the process, then it becomes a real drag.

DocBar
11-03-2010, 09:24 PM
That's where I'm coming from. Kubiak and Smith have put together a nice team. We're a few pieces shy of the whole package but we've got talent here and some depth. What we don't have is coaching that can reach these players. They may like Gary and want to win for him but they clearly aren't getting whatever it takes to make them execute on game day. That they can look good at times on both sides of the ball says to me that they're talented and that the systems they are running are not completely without merit.

They're just losing against good teams despite that fact.

Where are we shy at? Where have the Texans not deovted draft picks and money? We have much more $$ invested in the 32nd ranked defense than offense. The O is producing, most of the time. The D would have a hard time stopping a top 25 NCAA team. Mario Williams? Close to a bust. He brings it sometimes. Okoye? The only bust he will see is next to Travis Johnson. It won't be in the HOF. Ryans? The D sucked when he was healthy. Since he was drafted. Cushing? Steroids are a helluva game changer. Not quite so DROY in '10. CB? I've seen sponges with fewer holes.
We are in far worse shape than you guys are making us out to be. We are next to salary cap hell and we can just hope that the Texans FO will make the proper moves st the proper time. The O is doing much more with less. Can that be blamed on an O minded coach? Yes. Maybe Kubes lacks the balls to hire a DC with as much or more coaching experience as he has. McNair has invested way too much $$ on the D side of the ball to see the results he is seeing.
I've always been a Kubiak supporter, but I'm starting to feel a soap bar coming my way.

TimeKiller
11-03-2010, 09:29 PM
I am basically just lamenting the fact that, IMO, the defense needs to be rebuilt....problem is it was never "built" so it's frustrating.

I rest my case.

Never built?

Mario Williams #1
Amobi Okoye #10
Brian Cushing #15
Kareem Jackson #25

2nd round guys are Ryans, Barwin with ASmith as a big F/A sign...I mean there are A LOT of things you can say about this defense but that they never tried to build it is wrong.

Rebuilt is in the right direction, I'll give you that but this is like having good legos pieced together in a weird fashion. We need a better lego builder.

And a real safety....

Look how the big time D's are built....3/4's Hampton, Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu....Ngata, Suggs, Lewis, Reed...Jenkins, Scott, Revis...

The Texans have tried a similar tactic of having a superstar at every level of D...Mario/Okoye on the line, Ryans/Cushing at backer, Jackson/Pollard in the back...problem is-none of these guys play like the units mentioned prior.

HTown2ATX
11-03-2010, 09:34 PM
Never built?

Mario Williams #1
Amobi Okoye #10
Brian Cushing #15
Kareem Jackson #25

2nd round guys are Ryans, Barwin with ASmith as a big F/A sign...I mean there are A LOT of things you can say about this defense but that they never tried to build it is wrong.

Rebuilt is in the right direction, I'll give you that but this is like having good legos pieced together in a weird fashion. We need a better lego builder.

And a real safety....

Look how the big time D's are built....3/4's Hampton, Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu....Ngata, Suggs, Lewis, Reed...Jenkins, Scott, Revis...

The Texans have tried a similar tactic of having a superstar at every level of D...Mario/Okoye on the line, Ryans/Cushing at backer, Jackson/Pollard in the back...problem is-none of these guys play like the units mentioned prior.


@ Dexman - never said that this would effect sales or fan passion.

@TimeKiller - never built as in never became a CONSISTENT defense year in and year out despite alllllllll the picks you named. And if a coach changes schemes, hence rebuild the defense, some of the 4-3 shceme players may not work in a 3-4 correct?

Am I typing in some jacked up way somehow? I'm sober, how am I not expressing this??

I seriously am re-reading my posts for invisible ink that I must have typed that I can't see.....

I never said or implied any of what is being said in response to it......

wow

:kubepalm:

Texan_Bill
11-03-2010, 09:37 PM
The fourth largest city in the country ranked 19th in NBA attendance with an average of 16,528 (last season), which is about 91 almost 92% of capacity (which, meh, ain't all that bad). The Astros, as bad as they sucked, ranked 16th in the MLB with an average of 28,783, which is about 70% capacity.


The Texans, so far this seaon rank 8th in attendance, with an average of 71,116 or 100.1% of capacity..

JB
11-03-2010, 09:45 PM
The fourth largest city in the country ranked 19th in NBA attendance with an average of 16,528 (last season), which is about 91 almost 92% of capacity (which, meh, ain't all that bad). The Astros, as bad as they sucked, ranked 16th in the MLB with an average of 28,783, which is about 70% capacity.


The Texans, so far this seaon rank 8th in attendance, with an average of 71,116 or 100.1% of capacity..


Damn Texans! Always screwing up the numbers! :pissed:

Norg
11-03-2010, 11:12 PM
W-L % wise we have been steadily growing

Overall the Kubes era is much better then the Capers era thats why Bob Kept Kubes around

we will see how this season goes tho we better get 10 or 11 wins

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 12:32 AM
I'm waiting on Kubiak to SURPRISE me. We've gotten over 4 full seasons
of near-perfect .500 ball. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. This is a 5-11, 6-10 SEASON.
The TEAM is CAPABLE of much more, but the COACHING is SUB-PAR.


....bolded for clarity.

It would have been much easier for you to say you don't believe this coach can do better than 6 games this year.

I think you're crazy. We've already got 4 wins. Philly, Denver, Titans(x2), Jags(x2)....... & I think we'll beat the Jets (it's more like hope now)..... You're crazy.

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 12:51 AM
Never built?

Look how the big time D's are built....3/4's Hampton, Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu....Ngata, Suggs, Lewis, Reed...Jenkins, Scott, Revis...

The Texans have tried a similar tactic of having a superstar at every level of D...Mario/Okoye on the line, Ryans/Cushing at backer, Jackson/Pollard in the back...problem is-none of these guys play like the units mentioned prior.

Let's take Palamalu off the Steelers D, & see how they do. Let's take Ed Reed off the Ravens D, & see how they do. Let's take Jenkins off the Jets D, & see how they do.

Cushing was gone for 4 games..... He played 6 Qtrs before we lost Demeco.

Sunday was our first game without the defensive leader & while there are a lot of things that need to be fixed on defense...... Indy's offense has been held to 24 or fewer points 3 times this season.

Twice by the Houston Texans.

.

Texecutioner
11-04-2010, 01:12 AM
Let's take Ed Reed off the Ravens D, & see how they do.

He's been on the bench almost all season long, and they've been a good defense, and he's been hurt before for periods of time where the Ravens defense is still a top defense.

Let's take Jenkins off the Jets D, & see how they do.

Do you even realize that Jenkins was hurt all season last year when the Jets had the best defense they've had all decade long when he was out? Do you even realize that he's been hurt almost all season long this year as well? Jenkins hasn't hardly played a lick for the Jets this year or last year.

If you're going to try and use random players as examples right off the top of your head, you might want to know about their recent career developments if you expect anyone to think that you're aware of what you're talking about.




Sunday was our first game without the defensive leader & while there are a lot of things that need to be fixed on defense...... Indy's offense has been held to 24 or fewer points 3 times this season.

Twice by the Houston Texans.

.

And If you're going to try and skew stats on points, you might want to actually use games against teams where the Texans defense didn't give up over 400 yards of offense through the air in the first game and get completely toyed with in the next one. Those were horrible examples to use as signs of hope for this Texans defense.

Hookem Horns
11-04-2010, 01:21 AM
Wasn't the Texans best defense ever the one we had during the first season in 2002? Remember the Steelers game we won when our offense only gained something crazy like 40 yards?

That was a 3-4 defense under Capers who coached under Cowher.

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 01:31 AM
If you're going to try and use random players as examples right off the top of your head, you might want to know about their recent career developments if you expect anyone to think that you're aware of what you're talking about.

The point is they are better with those players, not as good without them. I'm not saying the Texans has a top 5 defense. That has never been the case. We were better than average last year, we've slipped some.... part of that, is that we've had key injuries of our own. We allowed 22 ppg or something like that in 2009... we're allowing 28(??) now.

And If you're going to try and skew stats on points, you might want to actually use games against teams where the Texans defense didn't give up over 400 yards of offense through the air in the first game and get completely toyed with in the next one. Those were horrible examples to use as signs of hope for this Texans defense.

How am I skewing stats? I posted facts.

DexmanC
11-04-2010, 02:13 AM
It would have been much easier for you to say you don't believe this coach can do better than 6 games this year.

I think you're crazy. We've already got 4 wins. Philly, Denver, Titans(x2), Jags(x2)....... & I think we'll beat the Jets (it's more like hope now)..... You're crazy.

Let Kubiak prove me crazy, and I'll be a happy loon.

texansdrummer
11-04-2010, 03:13 AM
As of now, I'd certainly say we should look for a proven defensive coordinator. We have one of he premier offenses in the league.....no reason to mess with that. Every team is going to have some questionable moments on either side of the ball. A new Head Coach could maybe make a substantial difference on defense, but I'd argue that an experienced DC could do the same, if not more. No reason to blow up the offense because our defense sucks. The defense has good enough players to hold their own against any team in the league.....we are taking really good players and making them play OK. Bush got them in line last year, but that looks like an aberration...maybe overhype. If things continue, I'd call for a new DC. Even if you think that Rick Dennison/GK have done nothing correct with the offense, the stats are the stats, and they'd only improve with a reasonably improved defense. I'm just guessing that most OC's don't anticipate having to counter the league's worst defense.

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 04:56 AM
We have one of he premier offenses in the league.....no reason to mess with that.

No reason to blow up the offense because our defense sucks.

Even if you think that Rick Dennison/GK have done nothing correct with the offense, the stats are the stats, and they'd only improve with a reasonably improved defense.

I'm just guessing that most OC's don't anticipate having to counter the league's worst defense.
I'd love to see this defense play with a lead.

Ole Miss Texan
11-04-2010, 09:31 AM
Well here is why we are guaranteed a victory on Sunday:

Kubiak currently has a 35-36 record. He's a .500 coach, right? That means we will win this game and get him back to happy land at 36-36.

Under Kubiak, the Texans have never lost to the Chargers when playing at home.

Under Kubiak, the Texans have never lost to the Chargers after the bye week.

;)

Double Barrel
11-04-2010, 10:27 AM
Wasn't the Texans best defense ever the one we had during the first season in 2002? Remember the Steelers game we won when our offense only gained something crazy like 40 yards?

That was a 3-4 defense under Capers who coached under Cowher.

yep, finished with a 10th ranked defense that year, iirc. It's been downhill ever since.

Texan_Bill
11-04-2010, 10:37 AM
yep, finished with a 10th ranked defense that year, iirc. It's been downhill ever since.

2002 - 16th
2003 - 31st
2004 - 23rd
2005 - 31st (2-14 year)
2006 - 24th
2007 - 24th (hey, consistency is a good thing, no?)
2008 - 22nd
2009 - 13th (T-NYG)

Double Barrel
11-04-2010, 10:53 AM
2002 - 16th
2003 - 31st
2004 - 23rd
2005 - 31st (2-14 year)
2006 - 24th
2007 - 24th (hey, consistency is a good thing, no?)
2008 - 22nd
2009 - 13th (T-NYG)

ahhh, yes, I just found the article that confused me. We had the 10th rank pass defense in 2002. Thanks for the clarification.

Texan_Bill
11-04-2010, 11:00 AM
ahhh, yes, I just found the article that confused me. We had the 10th rank pass defense in 2002. Thanks for the clarification.

No worries...

I would venture to say that the 2002 16th ranked defense was better than last year's 13th ranked defense. I say that based on the two offenses. Last year our offense could move the ball on sustained drives. HWSRN, Jonathan Wells et al, not so much. Many more 3 and outs and that defense of 2002 being put in so many horrible situations.

DexmanC
11-04-2010, 11:04 AM
Well here is why we are guaranteed a victory on Sunday:

Kubiak currently has a 35-36 record. He's a .500 coach, right? That means we will win this game and get him back to happy land at 36-36.

Under Kubiak, the Texans have never lost to the Chargers when playing at home.

Under Kubiak, the Texans have never lost to the Chargers after the bye week.

;)

:sarcasm:

LOL.

.....clarity

The Texans have only played the Chargers ONCE under Kubiak, and they
were SHELLACKED. Schaub got his shoulder tomahawked, and Matt
Turk scored 2 points for the Chargers on a play I couldn't forget.

gtexan02
11-04-2010, 11:12 AM
Heres my problem:

We were a top defense for the final half of last season.
We kept the same defensive coordinator. We kept almost all the same players.

So what happened? How are we dead last now?

THAT is a failure of coaching if Ive ever seen it

BigBull17
11-04-2010, 11:19 AM
:sarcasm:

LOL.

.....clarity

The Texans have only played the Chargers ONCE under Kubiak, and they
were SHELLACKED. Schaub got his shoulder tomahawked, and Matt
Turk scored 2 points for the Chargers on a play I couldn't forget.

Anyone have a video of that damn punt? That's the first Texans game I ever stopped watching.

spurstexanstros
11-04-2010, 11:20 AM
I get everyones frustration, I too was baffled why Kubiak wasnt sticking with running game,particularly after schaub started throwing lawn darts. I too thought it would be necessary to be agressive against the colts..put up some points early...at least throw the ball more than 20 yards but that didnt happen.

It wasnt Kubiak that threw the ball directly to opposing player or fumbled the ball. Think about it if Schaub hadnt thrown that pic-6 that last posession could have been to take the lead or tie. It wasnt Kubiak that let slower than molasses Peyton get RUN for a first down. and I think the fumble wouldnt have happened either because they would be running it in from the 10...but we are talking about woulda coulda shoulda....

Peyton Manning beat us....in his homefield. Great players make great plays. The Texans arent playing solitaire out there you know.


Im still going to wait and see the finish product before I want to blow it up.

DexmanC
11-04-2010, 11:20 AM
Heres my problem:

We were a top defense for the final half of last season.
We kept the same defensive coordinator. We kept almost all the same players.

So what happened? How are we dead last now?

THAT is a failure of coaching if Ive ever seen it

None of the players have a healthy fear (respect) for the coaching staff.
Combine that with their collective lack of maturity, and this becomes a problem
of epic proportions. They no longer play with discipline on either side
of the ball.

Eric Winston went through the entire 2009 season without
a penalty, and as soon as he gets good press, he's commiting false starts
worse than Chester Pitts. Bernard Pollard zones out while playing
zone coverage. There isn't one personality on that coaching staff
that's man enough to get these guys to "knock it off."

They "like" playing for Kubiak, but they don't fear his wrath. Step out
of line with Rex Ryan, you're in trouble. Step out of line with Tom Cable,
you get a broken jaw. Mess with Mike Tomlin, he'll put your ass on the
bench, and talk to you eye-to-eye while you're headed there.

Step out of line with Kubiak, he'll do some passive-aggressive shit, like tell Jacoby
to stay home. He obviously doesn't think Arian Foster is a "winning piece"
to this puzzle, because the guy doesn't get the ball anyway. On game
day, Kubiak isn't coaching the players, he's jabbering with his Xbox Live
helmet to his coaches.

Do what you want Kubiak, but you've now placed yourself into a box where
you can't lose more than another 2 or 3 games the rest of the way.

......got my chicken wings ready.

BigBull17
11-04-2010, 11:23 AM
I get everyones frustration, I too was baffled why Kubiak wasnt sticking with running game,particularly after schaub started throwing lawn darts. I too thought it would be necessary to be agressive against the colts..put up some points early...at least throw the ball more than 20 yards but that didnt happen.

It wasnt Kubiak that threw the ball directly to opposing player or fumbled the ball. Think about it if Schaub hadnt thrown that pic-6 that last posession could have been to take the lead or tie. It wasnt Kubiak that let slower than molasses Peyton get RUN for a first down. and I think the fumble wouldnt have happened either because they would be running it in from the 10...but we are talking about woulda coulda shoulda....

Peyton Manning beat us....in his homefield. Great players make great plays. The Texans arent playing solitaire out there you know.


Im still going to wait and see the finish product before I want to blow it up.

I can get some of this, but Kuniak didn't need to get cute. He proved that week one. He had to stick to the game plan.

scourge
11-04-2010, 11:44 AM
As I have stated in multiple threads before, I do not want to switch to the 3-4. Don't care what coach we switch to, head coach or D, but leave the 4-3 in place. We have been trying to draft/pick up players for that, and aside from the secondary I feel we have the talent to make it work quite well. I think it's the defensive playcalling and lack of anything remotely close to an average secondary that is holding the D back.

On offense the pieces are there, but again, the play calling is total WTF?!?

Ole Miss Texan
11-04-2010, 11:48 AM
:sarcasm:

LOL.

.....clarity

The Texans have only played the Chargers ONCE under Kubiak, and they
were SHELLACKED. Schaub got his shoulder tomahawked, and Matt
Turk scored 2 points for the Chargers on a play I couldn't forget.

:clap: Rep for being the first to catch all that!

I love how FACTS and STATS can be very misleading. Maybe that's why I find most news articles funny and 99% of the time misleading.

Porky
11-04-2010, 12:00 PM
Do we assume that Cowher is married to a 3-4? He ran it in Pitt, but he might be flexible depending on the talent on hand and the staff he can assemble.

As for Gary, look personally I like the guy. He is classy, a hometown kid that I would love to see take this team to the promised land. It just ain't happening. He HAS to go.

Let's face it, a mentally challenged blindfolded monkey with two arms missing could have devised a far better game plan than Kubes did. Even the damn monkey would have run it down their throat.

And more damning is that Kubes doesn't even recognize simple basic facts - such as we pass 77% of the time on opening drives this year. And when asked about the drive that resulted in two errant passes at 3rd and 2 and 4th and 2 - Gary stated that when he called the 3rd down play he hadn't even thought about 4th down and whether he would go for it or not, and that if he had he would have run on 3rd down. Huh?

Really Gary? Really? Combine this with all of the slow starts, lack of discilpline, failure to shore up the secondary for 5 freaking yrs, the constant time issues, etc etc etc, and you cannot possibly be serious about giving this guy until the end of the year and then deciding. He needs to be as lame of a duck as the Demorats in Congress. This guy is in his 5th year. If he hasn't gotten the basic skill set needed by now - when do you Kubiak supporters suppose he will? I would like to have a winner in this town sometime in the 21st century.

beerlover
11-04-2010, 12:01 PM
ESPN has this Fantasy Football Points Against Stat sheet so you can find your most favorable match-ups when starting players & right now your Houston Texans are the #1 most favorable team for oppossing QB's averaging 20 points per game. 2nd worst against WR & TE, 6th in FG's allowed & go ahead start your RB too against Texans, 10th worst run D.

BigBull17
11-04-2010, 12:16 PM
ESPN has this Fantasy Football Points Against Stat sheet so you can find your most favorable match-ups when starting players & right now your Houston Texans are the #1 most favorable team for oppossing QB's averaging 20 points per game. 2nd worst against WR & TE, 6th in FG's allowed & go ahead start your RB too against Texans, 10th worst run D.

Damning. We have put alot of resources into that side of the ball, except a decent coordinator. Bush is going to cost Kubiak his job.

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 12:21 PM
No worries...

I would venture to say that the 2002 16th ranked defense was better than last year's 13th ranked defense. I say that based on the two offenses. Last year our offense could move the ball on sustained drives. HWSRN, Jonathan Wells et al, not so much. Many more 3 and outs and that defense of 2002 being put in so many horrible situations.

QFT...... if we can get that offense back, it would help this years defense look worlds better.

Regardless who we play, if we can keep our offense on the field, & score with regularity, our defense only needs to get a few stops here & there.

That's not what you want from a top 5 defense, but that is the way our defense is built. That is the way the Colts defense is built, that is the way the Cardinals defense is built. We're not trying to out muscle anybody with the guys we have. We're just trying to create havoc to make the other team mess up.

Porky
11-04-2010, 12:33 PM
Damning. We have put alot of resources into that side of the ball, except a decent coordinator. Bush is going to cost Kubiak his job.

Kubiak is going to cost Kubiak his job.

Rey
11-04-2010, 01:14 PM
I have been a big supporter of Kubiak and the direction he was taking this team in, but I have not seen much progress in 'how the team plays' since he has been here.

There is not a question about whether or not the talent level has increased. That much should be obvious.

But....Like I said, this team still plays the same exact way that they always have.

Still a lot of mental mistakes. Still bad on defense. Offense still inconsistent and turnover prone. Still struggle to compete against good teams that need wins.

The culture of this team has not changed despite the yearly increase in wins. This is still a losing franchise as far as I'm concerned.

Honestly, I still have hope that they will turn it around this year, but I am far from having the faith that I used to have.

Texecutioner
11-04-2010, 05:27 PM
The point is they are better with those players, not as good without them. I'm not saying the Texans has a top 5 defense. That has never been the case. We were better than average last year, we've slipped some.... part of that, is that we've had key injuries of our own. We allowed 22 ppg or something like that in 2009... we're allowing 28(??) now.


No, the point is that you don't know what you're talking about. You used a several guys as examples for a point you were trying to make and totally missed. You weren't even aware that these guys hadn't been playing and that there teams did in fact play better without them. You were completely obtuse to it, and it's a frequent occurence in your arguments.


How am I skewing stats? I posted facts.

You posted facts that didn't make your point and you don't even seem to understand that the facts you posted made your argument look even worse and made the Texans defense that you were trying to twist things for look even worse. I think you just argue random stuff to argue it honestly. Either that, or you just randomly throw stuff out there without looking it up hoping that it's true.

DexmanC
11-04-2010, 05:31 PM
The Titans lost Haynesworth and got better.

The Texans lost Dunta Robinson and got worse.

Who's got the better coaching staff?

ChampionTexan
11-04-2010, 05:34 PM
The Titans lost Haynesworth and got better.

The Texans lost Dunta Robinson and got worse.

Who's got the better coaching staff?

How is going from 13-3 to 8-8 getting better?

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 05:36 PM
No, the point is that you don't know what you're talking about. You used a several guys as examples for a point you were trying to make and totally missed. You weren't even aware that these guys hadn't been playing and that there teams did in fact play better without them. You were completely obtuse to it, and it's a frequent occurence in your arguments.


You posted facts that didn't make your point and you don't even seem to understand that the facts you posted made your argument look even worse and made the Texans defense that you were trying to twist things for look even worse. I think you just argue random stuff to argue it honestly. Either that, or you just randomly throw stuff out there without looking it up hoping that it's true.

You think the Jets are better without Jenkins, the Ravens better without Reed, & the Steelers are better without Palamalu?

Whatever. If the Jets were the #1 scoring defense without Jenkins, they would have been the #1 scoring defense with Jenkins by a wider margin.

The original point, was that our defense slipped missing Cushing & Barwin.

When you heard that Cushing wasn't going to play for the first four games, did you think that was a good thing, or a bad thing? Did you think our defense was going to be better, or worse?

Would you rather have Demeco in the game for the rest of the year, or would you prefer he stays out.

& lastly, what teams have allowed the Colts offense to score less than 25 points this season?

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 05:40 PM
The Titans lost Haynesworth and got better.

The Texans lost Dunta Robinson and got worse.

Who's got the better coaching staff?

Did you know the Titans lost to the Chargers, missing their primary, secondary & tertiary receivers? They had to promote a guy from the practice squad to field a starting line-up.

They allowed over 400 yards of offense to the San Diego Chargers & their JV team.

156 yards on the ground.

Did you know that?

Texecutioner
11-04-2010, 05:47 PM
You think the Jets are better without Jenkins, the Ravens better without Reed, & the Steelers are better without Palamalu?

I never once said that any of these teams were better without these players. Argue with what I said, not with what you imagined my argument was.

Whatever. If the Jets were the #1 scoring defense without Jenkins, they would have been the #1 scoring defense with Jenkins by a wider margin.

And see this is exactly what I'm talking about. You're not aware of anything on this subject and you're just throwing things out there as a crutch for Kubiak and using big name players as examples that go against your point and you don't even realize it. I'll explain this one more time and hopefully you'll understand. Jenkins has hardly played all this season and last year. He's been off the field, and yet last season the Jets had by far a better defense than they've had all decade long. Losing Jenkins didn't hurt them at all. They didn't use that as an excuse to fail or to under achieve. They rolled with it and were still a good defense that ended up being a great defense even without him. And you're trying to sit here and use him as some example being completely unaware that he hasn't even played in almost two years.

The original point, was that our defense slipped missing Cushing & Barwin.

Again, where does Barwin come from? He's hardly even played as a Texan. He's not even a starter. He's been nothing but a player with a little flash and potential, and yet you use him as some sort of crutch? Lol!! You'll use anything to make an excuse for even the worst defense in the league.



& lastly, what teams have allowed the Colts offense to score less than 25 points this season?

What the hell difference does that make? The Texans defense gave up over 400 yards in the air against them, yet you use that as some example to spin that as a great performance. Seriously dude, you are completely backwards and adon't seem to understand logic. Using a game where a team was thrown on all game long for over 400 yards in the air is "NOT" a game to reference as a good performance, but go on and keep babbling. I won't waste my time trying to explain this to you. I don't think you're capable of understanding this at this point especially when you aren't even aware of what guys around the league have even been playing in the last year or how their teams have ever performed without them.

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 05:54 PM
I never once said that any of these teams were better without these players. Argue with what I said, not with what you imagined my argument was.





No, the point is that you don't know what you're talking about. You used a several guys as examples for a point you were trying to make and totally missed. You weren't even aware that these guys hadn't been playing and that there teams did in fact play better without them. You were completely obtuse to it, and it's a frequent occurence in your arguments.



What??

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 06:00 PM
Never built?

Look how the big time D's are built....3/4's Hampton, Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu....Ngata, Suggs, Lewis, Reed...Jenkins, Scott, Revis...

The Texans have tried a similar tactic of having a superstar at every level of D...Mario/Okoye on the line, Ryans/Cushing at backer, Jackson/Pollard in the back...problem is-none of these guys play like the units mentioned prior.

Let's take Palamalu off the Steelers D, & see how they do. Let's take Ed Reed off the Ravens D, & see how they do. Let's take Jenkins off the Jets D, & see how they do.

Cushing was gone for 4 games..... He played 6 Qtrs before we lost Demeco.

Maybe I should have used Revis instead of Jenkins. Maybe I should have used Lewis instead of Reed. I think Palamalu is right on & to the point.

Did you or did you not think our defense was going to be affected by losing Cushing for 4 games to start the year?

Did you or did you not think the defense would get worse without Demeco?

DexmanC
11-04-2010, 06:11 PM
You think the Jets are better without Jenkins, the Ravens better without Reed, & the Steelers are better without Palamalu?

Whatever. If the Jets were the #1 scoring defense without Jenkins, they would have been the #1 scoring defense with Jenkins by a wider margin.

The original point, was that our defense slipped missing Cushing & Barwin.

When you heard that Cushing wasn't going to play for the first four games, did you think that was a good thing, or a bad thing? Did you think our defense was going to be better, or worse?

Would you rather have Demeco in the game for the rest of the year, or would you prefer he stays out.

& lastly, what teams have allowed the Colts offense to score less than 25 points this season?

http://i50.tinypic.com/vhdb0j.jpg

Texecutioner
11-04-2010, 06:20 PM
What??

I mentioned Jenkins. I never once said that the Steelers were better without TP. What the hell are you talking about? I mentioned Reed with the Ravens, but not once did I say they were better without him. I clearly stated that they still played very well without him in many stints when he's gotten hurt over the years.

And again, you keep ignoring the glaring point of the entire post which is that none of those teams curled up and used that as a crutch or excuse for under achieving or losing like you do in here every single week where the Texans lose or there's criticism on the HC or the GM. Every team in the league goes through injuries or has suspensions. The Colts have had a ton of them the last two seasons and never seem to miss a beat. That's the whole point, but once again it seems to go right over your head.

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 07:13 PM
And again, you keep ignoring the glaring point of the entire post which is that none of those teams curled up and used that as a crutch or excuse for under achieving or losing like you do in here every single week where the Texans lose or there's criticism on the HC or the GM. Every team in the league goes through injuries or has suspensions. The Colts have had a ton of them the last two seasons and never seem to miss a beat. That's the whole point, but once again it seems to go right over your head.

That was probably the first time I used injuries to make any point about this defense. Find another post where I did.

I'm not using anything as a crutch, I've been saying the defense sucks. The only thing I've said, is that I don't understand why anyone would be surprised. We knew that coming into the season.

The point of that post, I was replying to someone who was pointing to how great defenses were made. He mentioned players he called great. I mentioned our players that are our equivalent.

They were either hurt, or not in the game.

It's like people are expecting our defense to be better than it was last year, & we haven't been able to play with the guys we thought we would all in the same game.

You might not see the value of Barwin. Whatever. Some of us here thought he would have a bigger role & make a bigger impact in his second year.

I'm not using that as an excuse..... we suck. We knew we were going to suck.

DexmanC
11-04-2010, 07:45 PM
Did you know the Titans lost to the Chargers, missing their primary, secondary & tertiary receivers? They had to promote a guy from the practice squad to field a starting line-up.

They allowed over 400 yards of offense to the San Diego Chargers & their JV team.

156 yards on the ground.

Did you know that?

Didn't the Titans also lose their quarterback and #1 receiver? Didn't they?

GuerillaBlack
11-04-2010, 07:59 PM
Didn't the Titans also lose their quarterback and #1 receiver? Didn't they?

I'm pretty sure Young played on Sunday.

thunderkyss
11-04-2010, 08:10 PM
Didn't the Titans also lose their quarterback and #1 receiver? Didn't they?

Is that a crutch? an excuse?

I thought those weren't allowed.

Did their QB & #1 receiver also play defense?

Maybe that's what we are doing wrong.... maybe..

DexmanC
11-04-2010, 08:28 PM
Is that a crutch? an excuse?

I thought those weren't allowed.

Did their QB & #1 receiver also play defense?

Maybe that's what we are doing wrong.... maybe..

They are not allowed for KUBIAK.

They Titans have gone to the playoffs TWICE in the last 4.5 years, Kubiak
has ZERO berths. When he gets some skins on the wall, he'll get
more leeway from me.

JB
11-04-2010, 08:30 PM
Oooooo! :hide:

Texan_Bill
11-04-2010, 08:48 PM
Oooooo! :hide:

Ooooooo! FML!!

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/062010/1275389857_naked-gun-facepalm.gif