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nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 10:26 AM
Peter King has the Texans ranked 15th (actually tied with the Bucs) in his "The Fine Fifteen. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/31/monday-morning-qb-week-8/2.html)"

Ahead of the Texans?

Six teams with worse records than the Texans, including the 3-5 Chargers, and three teams the Texans have beaten head-to-head; the Colts (5), Chiefs (12), and Raiders (14).

No respect.

jaayteetx
11-01-2010, 10:28 AM
Maybe everytime he tunes into a Texans game, we're on defense?

False Start
11-01-2010, 10:32 AM
To hell with him. :bat:

Texan_Bill
11-01-2010, 10:32 AM
:rolleyes:


:kubepalm: Peter King!

ThaShark316
11-01-2010, 10:35 AM
Fine. Bust Indy's ass and lets go home.

Dutchrudder
11-01-2010, 10:36 AM
Peter King has the Texans ranked 15th (actually tied with the Bucs) in his "The Fine Fifteen. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/31/monday-morning-qb-week-8/2.html)"

Ahead of the Texans?

Six teams with worse records than the Texans, including the 3-5 Chargers, and three teams the Texans have beaten head-to-head; the Colts (5), Chiefs (12), and Raiders (14).

No respect.

I can understand ranking the Colts higher (until tomorrow), but the Chiefs just barely beat the Bills in overtime yesterday, and the Raiders are 4-4 with no significant wins. 1 of their 4 wins is against a team that is over .500

Cjeremy635
11-01-2010, 10:42 AM
Honestly, I'm surprised we're ranked as high as that. This team has a horrific defense and our offense seems to be clicking in spurts. We are going to have to put up 35+ points to beat teams with a decent offense, because even they can still score at will. When they start to play with consistency, they can gain some respect....until then, the wins look more like lucky breaks.
I have been drinking the kool-aid for years, but this year just feels differently to me. I'm not all "rah-rah" all the time. It's hard to be that way when the fans show up to the games (and in their seats on time) and the players don't bother to "execute".

:gun:

nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 10:48 AM
I can understand ranking the Colts higher (until tomorrow), but the Chiefs just barely beat the Bills in overtime yesterday, and the Raiders are 4-4 with no significant wins. 1 of their 4 wins is against a team that is over .500

Basically, what he's saying is that the only team that we've beaten that we're actually better than was the Redskins.

HOU-TEX
11-01-2010, 10:55 AM
It doesn't bother me where he's got us ranked, cuz I care less about rankings. I just don't care much for Peter King

Thorn
11-01-2010, 10:59 AM
Ranking are always wrong when they are not your own rankings. LOL

gwallaia
11-01-2010, 11:06 AM
Blast!

I hope these rankings don't hurt us in the BCS standings at the end of the season!

Oh wait, this is the NFL, rankings don't mean Jack-Squat.

Texas T
11-01-2010, 11:10 AM
Blast!

I hope these rankings don't hurt us in the BCS standings at the end of the season!

Oh wait, this is the NFL, rankings don't mean Jack-Squat.

Exactly, plus everytime we are on everyone's "best" list we fall flat...I'm not sure if they buy into the hype (ala UT this year) or what.

So really who cares what anyone thinks about the team as long as they win!!

GO TEXANS!!

Double Barrel
11-01-2010, 11:12 AM
If I wasn't a Texans fan and was solely an analyst, I'd agree with his take. Let's be honest here, we live and die by our offense. Our defense is simply not going to win any games, and the best we can really hope for is a bend-but-don't-break defense when we need a stop at the end of games. Our defense doesn't put consistent pressure on the pocket, and with a lack of pass rush, our weak secondary gets exploited and abused. Special teams is nothing special, so what we really have going for us is our potentially high-powered offense. And when the offense gets shut down by a solid defense, we become a one-dimensional team that's quite easy to beat.

beerlover
11-01-2010, 11:13 AM
I think alot of it comes down to these national talking heads not wanting to have egg on their face(book) so they play it safe to protect their image :cow:

houstonspartan
11-01-2010, 11:18 AM
If I wasn't a Texans fan and was solely an analyst, I'd agree with his take. Let's be honest here, we live and die by our offense. Our defense is simply not going to win any games, and the best we can really hope for is a bend-but-don't-break defense when we need a stop at the end of games. Our defense doesn't put consistent pressure on the pocket, and with a lack of pass rush, our weak secondary gets exploited and abused. Special teams is nothing special, so what we really have going for us is our potentially high-powered offense. And when the offense gets shut down by a solid defense, we become a one-dimensional team that's quite easy to beat.

Basically.

No More 8-8's
11-01-2010, 11:20 AM
I bet you tonight will be the first time this year that Peter King sees more than a quarter of the Texans playing. If the game has no inkling of Favre, NFC East or Brady, than Peter King has no worthwhile input.

stingray
11-01-2010, 11:33 AM
We probably have the worst defense in the NFL. I'm surprised we are even ranked that high.

El Tejano
11-01-2010, 11:51 AM
Dude....his name is Peter. Nuff said!

kiwitexansfan
11-01-2010, 11:52 AM
We probably have the worst defense in the NFL. I'm surprised we are even ranked that high.

THIS.

We are a sub-par offensive day from losing to any/every team in the NFL.

thunderkyss
11-01-2010, 12:03 PM
Peter King has the Texans ranked 15th (actually tied with the Bucs) in his "The Fine Fifteen. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/10/31/monday-morning-qb-week-8/2.html)"

Ahead of the Texans?

Six teams with worse records than the Texans, including the 3-5 Chargers, and three teams the Texans have beaten head-to-head; the Colts (5), Chiefs (12), and Raiders (14).

No respect.

In all honesty, how good are we?

We can't move the ball on a good defense. We can't stop a poor offense. We've got no special teams. We do not force turnovers.

With the way we've been winning, we've got to continue to do that week in & week out to have do better than 2 for 4 (Skins/KC - Giants/Cowboys).

Worse of all...... there's no reason. We come out looking like gangbusters, running all over the Colts..... & our passing game is supposed to be among the best in the league...... but we can't stay on the field. It's not like the Chargers who march up & down the field & turn it over on some freak play......

Screw it....... we suck. Fingers crossed, we'll get better.


Which is the silver lining in all of this. We played well in one game this year, & we're 4-2.

Mailman
11-01-2010, 12:09 PM
I think alot of it comes down to these national talking heads not wanting to have egg on their face(book) so they play it safe to protect their image :cow:

Certainly this, but also the fact that the last time any of these power-rankings listmakers saw the Texans play football was three Sundays ago.

Ryan
11-01-2010, 12:11 PM
This is the same guy that said that Vincent Jackson is every bit as good as Andre Johnson, what else would you expect?

Mailman
11-01-2010, 12:16 PM
In all honesty, how good are we?



Honestly, we are 4-2 good.

Blake
11-01-2010, 12:34 PM
The only power ranking I care about is the AFC South.

GP
11-01-2010, 12:34 PM
If I wasn't a Texans fan and was solely an analyst, I'd agree with his take. Let's be honest here, we live and die by our offense. Our defense is simply not going to win any games, and the best we can really hope for is a bend-but-don't-break defense when we need a stop at the end of games. Our defense doesn't put consistent pressure on the pocket, and with a lack of pass rush, our weak secondary gets exploited and abused. Special teams is nothing special, so what we really have going for us is our potentially high-powered offense. And when the offense gets shut down by a solid defense, we become a one-dimensional team that's quite easy to beat.

So what you're saying is.....

Speak plain English, man! Just spell it out for us already.

Some people don't understand how to communicate.

I kid, I kid. Yeah, you probably just summed it all up. Nothing left to be said.

DexmanC
11-01-2010, 12:39 PM
The Texans are the only team in the AFC leading its division with a
NEGATIVE "net points" differential. That means all the teams
we've faced have scored more points than we have during those
combined games, yet we're still 4-2.

This is just unacceptable to me. The season, so far, has been a FLUKE.
Tonight's game is a MUST WIN to start showing otherwise.

GP
11-01-2010, 12:44 PM
The Texans are the only team in the AFC leading its division with a
NEGATIVE "net points" differential. That means all the teams
we've faced have scored more points than we have during those
combined games, yet we're still 4-2.

This is just unacceptable to me. The season, so far, has been a FLUKE.
Tonight's game is a MUST WIN to show otherwise.

What if we win a lot of our remaining games this same way?

I'm just sayin....what if?

What if we become the team that other teams can't put away, and therefore it doesn't really matter if the other team scores points more than they should? How deflating would it be if you see you're playing the Texans and you think to yourself "Man, those guys just find a way to win. No matter what, they still end up winning..." and then in the actual game, those opponents get that sense of dread like we always felt when WE had a lead and watched it slip away.

I'm hoping defense improves, but I am hoping MORE that our offense can handle any obstacles it faces along the way.

nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 12:53 PM
If I wasn't a Texans fan and was solely an analyst, I'd agree with his take.

Really? You'd agree that three of the four teams we've beat are better teams than us, even though we've beat them?

I understand that our defense sucks. And I understand that "power rankings" suck. But there's just something absurd to me about ranking a team below three teams it's beat, two of which it has the same record as and one of which it has a better record than. It's illogical.

The NFL is mediorce this year. We have flaws, but so does everyone else. Besides, if you replaced defense with offense and Texans with Jets in your analysis, it would still ring true. And, they're "one of the best teams in the NFL," right?

Trail.Blazr
11-01-2010, 12:54 PM
What if we win a lot of our remaining games this same way?

I'm just sayin....what if?

What if we become the team that other teams can't put away, and therefore it doesn't really matter if the other team scores points more than they should? How deflating would it be if you see you're playing the Texans and you think to yourself "Man, those guys just find a way to win. No matter what, they still end up winning..." and then in the actual game, those opponents get that sense of dread like we always felt when WE had a lead and watched it slip away.

I'm hoping defense improves, but I am hoping MORE that our offense can handle any obstacles it faces along the way.


Defense almost HAS to improve. I'm hoping the sputtering offense has been tied to a grounded Duane Brown, and with him being back we see a resurgent attack that we've come accustomed to having.


Overall, I know it's not one thing here or there.. it's a culmination of a lot of things that factor into how lucky we are to be 4-2 right now. What I'm hopeful for is that we can keep being lucky enough to keep in the mix for a post season bid, and we actually start to click offensively/defensively and ST at the end of the season, as we typically have in the past, thus making a push in the playoffs.

We have a LOT of young starters. Hard to expect them to be there from the get go. I sure hope they get there when it matters.

mootini
11-01-2010, 12:56 PM
And, if the Texans win, then Peter King will prase the Texans...we have the same threads on Jags message boards. Forget respect...that's earned...Texans sweeping the Colts will get you the respect!

Double Barrel
11-01-2010, 01:06 PM
Really? You'd agree that three of the four teams we've beat are better teams than us, even though we've beat them?

I understand that our defense sucks. And I understand that "power rankings" suck. But there's just something absurd to me about ranking a team below three teams it's beat, two of which it has the same record as and one of which it has a better record than. It's illogical.

The NFL is mediorce this year. We have flaws, but so does everyone else. Besides, if you replaced defense with offense and Texans with Jets in your analysis, it would still ring true. And, they're "one of the best teams in the NFL," right?

Just winning over a team does not automatically make your team better. By your logic, the Cowboys are better than the Texans because they not only won the game, but beat us in a very non-competitive fashion.

I'm not a big power rankings or stats guy. I just comment on what I see, and while the Texans are certainly resilient in many games and that never-say-die attitude is admirable, the simple fact is that this is only going to win so many games. At some point, they are going to have to win a low scoring game, and with the last place defense, I don't see that happening anytime soon unless something drastically changes for the better.

The difference between us: as a fan, I agree with your take. As a non-partisan analyst, the Texans 4-2 record is not as strong as other 4-2 teams.

nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 01:22 PM
Just winning over a team does not automatically make your team better. By your logic, the Cowboys are better than the Texans because they not only won the game, but beat us in a very non-competitive fashion.

Right, which is why I considered overall record in the matter as well. I mean, to determine how two teams stack up you go through a checklist right? The first two questions on that checklist are: what's their overall record and have they played each other. We are equal to or better than all three teams on both of those measures.

I understand your sentiment that we might not "feel" like a better team, but until the play on the field bears that out, it's nonsensical to say it's so.

wagonhed
11-01-2010, 01:33 PM
I'd put the Texans around 12-15 as well. As for the teams ahead of us, maybe I would switch it around a little, but basically I think he is right.

The Chargers have had as much terrible luck in losing as we have had incredible luck in winning. I think they are a better team. I don't think their luck will keep up the way it has any more than ours will.

To echo what has been said plenty of times: If our defense doesn't drastically improve, I don't expect us to keep winning these down to the wire shootouts all year.

wagonhed
11-01-2010, 01:35 PM
I understand your sentiment that we might not "feel" like a better team, but until the play on the field bears that out, it's nonsensical to say it's so.
The play on the field has born that out. Whether you want to call the crazy comebacks we have mounted luck, skill, good fortune, or whatever, even the best teams can't continue to win games like that. Truly good teams dominate their opponents at least as often as they squeak out close wins. We haven't dominated anyone since the Colts game.

Second Honeymoon
11-01-2010, 01:42 PM
All he is saying is that the texans are fortunate 4-2
I think the bucs have played better than the texans

Seems like it's a fair assessment
Trust me, if they beat the colts they will be near the top in most rankings both official and opinionated rankings. The loss to Dallas looks bad rightboutnow

DexmanC
11-01-2010, 01:46 PM
What if we win a lot of our remaining games this same way?

I'm just sayin....what if?

What if we become the team that other teams can't put away, and therefore it doesn't really matter if the other team scores points more than they should? How deflating would it be if you see you're playing the Texans and you think to yourself "Man, those guys just find a way to win. No matter what, they still end up winning..." and then in the actual game, those opponents get that sense of dread like we always felt when WE had a lead and watched it slip away.

I'm hoping defense improves, but I am hoping MORE that our offense can handle any obstacles it faces along the way.

The two real defenses we faced, our offense got CURB STOMPED. As
the quality of opponent increases, so will the curb stompings. Teams
with mediocre offenses move the ball at will, and good defenses
SHUT US DOWN. Quality of opponent, over the next 8 games, has
just gone to "sky high."

I definitely do not want us to be curb stomped 8 times in a row, which
is a very real possibility should the team play exactly as it has for the last
6 games.

nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 01:58 PM
As
the quality of opponent increases, so will the curb stompings. Teams
with mediocre offenses move the ball at will, and good defenses
SHUT US DOWN. Quality of opponent, over the next 8 games, has
just gone to "sky high."

I definitely do not want us to be curb stomped 8 times in a row, which
is a very real possibility should the team play exactly as it has for the last
6 games.
FWIW (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/17232/a-look-at-strength-of-victories?prosaction=newpost&status=ok):
As Jacksonville dismantled Dallas, I started wondering about strength of victory in the AFC South.

Let’s take a look at the percentages ...

* Houston’s wins have come against teams that have a .586 winning percentage. And the Texans’ losses have come to teams that have a .428 winning percentage.
* Indianapolis’ wins have come against teams that have a .533 winning percentage. And the Colts’ losses have come to teams that have a .571 winning percentage.
* Jacksonville’s wins have come against teams that have a .250 winning percentage. And the Jaguars’ losses have come to teams that have a .567 winning percentage.
* Tennessee’s wins have come against teams that have a .486 winning percentage. And the Titans’ losses have come to teams that have a .435 winning percentage.


By this simple snapshot, the Texans have the best wins in the division and the Titans have the worst losses while the Jaguars have the worst wins and the Colts have the best losses.

JB
11-01-2010, 02:03 PM
The two real defenses we faced, our offense got CURB STOMPED. As
the quality of opponent increases, so will the curb stompings. Teams
with mediocre offenses move the ball at will, and good defenses
SHUT US DOWN. Quality of opponent, over the next 8 games, has
just gone to "sky high."

I definitely do not want us to be curb stomped 8 times in a row, which
is a very real possibility should the team play exactly as it has for the last
6 games.

FYI...

NYG has the # 20 scoring defense.
Dallas has the #27

KC has the #5
Indy has the#14
Oakland has the #15
Wash. has the #16

So just what exactly makes up a "real" defense? Cause we did not get "curb stomped" by the best defenses we have faced this year. In fact we beat the best defenses we have faced this year.

Cry me a different song.

thunderkyss
11-01-2010, 02:10 PM
To echo what has been said plenty of times: If our defense doesn't drastically improve, I don't expect us to keep winning these down to the wire shootouts all year.

Let me ask you this.

If our offense is so good, why are we so far behind to begin with?

thunderkyss
11-01-2010, 02:11 PM
All he is saying is that the texans are fortunate 4-2
I think the bucs have played better than the texans


did you see Freeman toss that ball?? Looked like at least 60 yards in the air.

Damn!!

Double Barrel
11-01-2010, 02:19 PM
Right, which is why I considered overall record in the matter as well. I mean, to determine how two teams stack up you go through a checklist right? The first two questions on that checklist are: what's their overall record and have they played each other. We are equal to or better than all three teams on both of those measures.

I understand your sentiment that we might not "feel" like a better team, but until the play on the field bears that out, it's nonsensical to say it's so.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, as this stuff is subjective. That being said, my point was that I can see where King is coming from if I take the battle red-colored glasses off. I don't think he hates the Texans like the title suggests, but that a case can be made why we could be considered 'middle of the pack'.

Obviously, time will settle this and we'll see how we stack up head-to-head against some of the "better" teams in the league. 6 games is obviously just a fragmented look at the season.

Let me ask you this.

If our offense is so good, why are we so far behind to begin with?

Really good point, man. How well would our defense play if they were protecting a 2 or 3 score lead?

wagonhed
11-01-2010, 02:21 PM
Let me ask you this.

If our offense is so good, why are we so far behind to begin with?
I don't think our offense is THAT good, more specifically, I don't think our offensive scheme allows us to be that good. I mean we're top 10, yeah, but not much more than that.

I kind of see our offense as a 10 cylinder engine that has 6 cylinder and 10 cylinder drive mode. Our coaches set it on 6 cylinder for the majority of each game. It's only when we go into "oh shit mode" that we see our 10 cylinder offense. That's not the players fault. It's the coaches and the offensive scheme.

Our offense COULD be the best, it has the potential to be like the 2007 Pats or 2009 Saints in my opinion, especially with our currently outstanding offensive injury situation. Our coaches just don't run it that way.

nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 02:23 PM
I don't think he "hates" the Texans either, FTR. I was using hyperbole for effect.

nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 02:24 PM
I don't think our offense is THAT good, more specifically, I don't think our offensive scheme allows us to be that good. I mean we're top 10, yeah, but not much more than that.

I kind of see our offense as a 10 cylinder engine that has 6 cylinder and 10 cylinder drive mode. Our coaches set it on 6 cylinder for the majority of each game. It's only when we go into "oh shit mode" that we see our 10 cylinder offense. That's not the players fault. It's the coaches and the offensive scheme.

Our offense COULD be the best, it has the potential to be like the 2007 Pats or 2009 Saints in my opinion, especially with our currently outstanding offensive injury situation. Our coaches just don't run it that way.
That's a pretty good analogy.

thunderkyss
11-01-2010, 02:38 PM
The two real defenses we faced, our offense got CURB STOMPED. As
the quality of opponent increases, so will the curb stompings. Teams
with mediocre offenses move the ball at will, and good defenses
SHUT US DOWN. Quality of opponent, over the next 8 games, has
just gone to "sky high."

I definitely do not want us to be curb stomped 8 times in a row, which
is a very real possibility should the team play exactly as it has for the last
6 games.

Reminiscent of the Broncos & Giants last season. We may be looking at a paper tiger here folks. Even if we look half-way plausible tonight, it won't really mean much.

Just letting you know now. The way the Colts have looked so far, tonight's game won't tell us anything positive. San Diego next week may be the bigger test.

Corrosion
11-01-2010, 02:38 PM
I wish King would have ranked them 39th .... behind TCU , Boise St and Oregon , Auburn , Utah and Alabama .... and the Winless Houston Rockets.

I wish Kubiak would post that in the locker room ..... Might light a fire under someone's as on defense.

thunderkyss
11-01-2010, 02:42 PM
FWIW (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/17232/a-look-at-strength-of-victories?prosaction=newpost&status=ok)
As Jacksonville dismantled Dallas, I started wondering about strength of victory in the AFC South.

Let’s take a look at the percentages ...

* Houston’s wins have come against teams that have a .586 winning percentage. And the Texans’ losses have come to teams that have a .428 winning percentage.
* Indianapolis’ wins have come against teams that have a .533 winning percentage. And the Colts’ losses have come to teams that have a .571 winning percentage.
* Jacksonville’s wins have come against teams that have a .250 winning percentage. And the Jaguars’ losses have come to teams that have a .567 winning percentage.
* Tennessee’s wins have come against teams that have a .486 winning percentage. And the Titans’ losses have come to teams that have a .435 winning percentage.


By this simple snapshot, the Texans have the best wins in the division and the Titans have the worst losses while the Jaguars have the worst wins and the Colts have the best losses.
:

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but the Texans losses have come against teams with the lowest W/L percentage, which would mean they loss to teams that have been playing worse than the teams the Jaguars loss to, who have a higher W/L percentage.

The Jags have the better losses. Losing to good teams. The Texans have the worse losses, losing to bad teams.

But, those numbers can very well flip flop come the end of the season..... so take it with a grain of salt.

nero THE zero
11-01-2010, 02:50 PM
Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but the Texans losses have come against teams with the lowest W/L percentage, which would mean they loss to teams that have been playing worse than the teams the Jaguars loss to, who have a higher W/L percentage.

The Jags have the better losses. Losing to good teams. The Texans have the worse losses, losing to bad teams.

But, those numbers can very well flip flop come the end of the season..... so take it with a grain of salt.

According to Kuharsky's numbers (which I haven't verified), the Texans have the best wins and the worst losses (and not the Titans have the worst losses.)

That's particularly inflated by the loss to the Cowboys though, given that we only have two losses.

My purpose for posting that was to refute the idea that we've yet to play any good teams as Dex would suggest when, in fact, we have the most quality wins of anyone in the division.

thunderkyss
11-01-2010, 02:54 PM
I kind of see our offense as a 10 cylinder engine that has 6 cylinder and 10 cylinder drive mode. Our coaches set it on 6 cylinder for the majority of each game. It's only when we go into "oh shit mode" that we see our 10 cylinder offense. That's not the players fault. It's the coaches and the offensive scheme.


I won't argue this point, you may very well be right. We've seen this team get too far ahead of itself, and start turning the ball over.

But at the same time, it's hard to see any difference in the play calling when you are at Reliant. Jacoby, Andre..... they are always running 9's & 7's, but the ball seems to find a double covered underneath route.....

Then when our backs are against the wall, the ball seems to fly with more regularity.

Coaches, Schaub, receivers not running 100%........ who knows?

Rey
11-01-2010, 04:22 PM
Our passing game has worked best this year in the two comebacks. I'd like to see them come out and perform like that consistently.

Hookem Horns
11-01-2010, 08:00 PM
Testing

GuerillaBlack
11-01-2010, 10:56 PM
Peter Kings wins.

gtexan02
11-01-2010, 10:59 PM
I dont know that I'd put as the 15th best team in football right now, honestly.

wagonhed
11-01-2010, 11:21 PM
I dont know that I'd put as the 15th best team in football right now, honestly.
Yeah, I said 12-15 earlier today but I feel like 18-22 is more realistic now. This team would get stomped by last years Texans.

GuerillaBlack
11-01-2010, 11:46 PM
Yeah, I said 12-15 earlier today but I feel like 18-22 is more realistic now. This team would get stomped by last years Texans.

If Arian had played more last year...