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View Full Version : Why are you talking about RB needs?


Bellthebest
03-29-2005, 07:12 PM
Why?? Some people are saying that DD is gunna be the next Priest Holmes!!!

Texans Pride
03-29-2005, 07:51 PM
Why?? Some people are saying that DD is gunna be the next Priest Holmes!!!

Who is saying that? I've never said that. . . Anyone else ever said that here :shocked

Texans Pride very confused here. . .

texan279
03-29-2005, 08:15 PM
He may not be the next Priest Holmes, but he just may be the next RB who produces Priest like numbers behind the zone blocking scheme...

F-minus67
03-29-2005, 08:43 PM
He might not be the next Holmes, but he could have a career like Emmit Smith.

Reddevil63
03-29-2005, 09:15 PM
He may not be the next Priest Holmes, but he just may be the next RB who produces Priest like numbers behind the zone blocking scheme...
Ok number 1, did he not put up great numbers his rookie year behind a line that had yet to start the zone blocking scheme? During that season every Texan fan was singing his praises thinking he was the next coming of Emmitt Smith.

2. Since we now run a zone blocking scheme, why would a running back that puts up good numbers behind that scheme be a bad thing?

outofhnd
03-29-2005, 09:19 PM
And he could also be the next KiJana Carter, Blair Thomas or Reggie Cobb.

We just do not know at this point, but next year DD will have no excuses. If he gets injured then he will be deemed injury prone and delegated to a situational role or not resigned when his contract expires.

If he does not gain the respect of defenses to the point where they have to alter their game plan to stop him, He will be deemed as serviceable starter not a franchise back.

If he can stay healthy and put up substantial numbers then he will be the franchise back we all hope he can be, but year 3 is a make or break year for DD the blocking scheme isnt changing, He should be at 100% He is under the microscope this year.

Don't let the 1000 yards a year mislead you into thinking we have our starting TB. Ricky Williams was the Saints starting RB when they drafted Deuce. and Ricky was coming off his best year as a Saint.

There may be things goin on we don't know about. Don't get mad at me for just giving you the possible realities of our RB situation. If he is another Priest Holmes, How many years are we going to hold onto him and wait for the Priest like numbers? It took Priest about 4 years before he became the force he is with KC.

texan279
03-29-2005, 09:20 PM
Ok number 1, did he not put up great numbers his rookie year behind a line that had yet to start the zone blocking scheme? During that season every Texan fan was singing his praises thinking he was the next coming of Emmitt Smith.

His numbers were good, and I for one never thought he was the next coming of Emmitt Smith.


2. Since we now run a zone blocking scheme, why would a running back that puts up good numbers behind that scheme be a bad thing?

Did I ever say it was a bad thing?

Reddevil63
03-29-2005, 09:25 PM
Did I ever say it was a bad thing?
Nope, that was my assumption, sorry. One knock I hear on alot of backs is that they are a product of the system. If that system is ours than thats fine with me :thumbup

OzzO
03-29-2005, 09:25 PM
If he does not gain the respect of defenses to the point where they have to alter their game plan to stop him, He will be deemed as serviceable starter not a franchise back.

I think that says it all. If the run does not get as much respect as the pass (AJ) then bad juju happens when the team becomes one dimensional. Not saying DD needs to gain all the "respect" himself, but the entire running game and all involved.

wags
03-29-2005, 10:35 PM
And he could also be the next KiJana Carter,

No he couldn't. Ki-Jana Carter was taken #1 overall. DD was taken in the fourth round as a third-down back. Ki-Jana was a flat out bust. DD has probably surpassed all expectations for a third down back that was drafted in the fourth round. Even if DD doesn't turn out to be the franchise back, he has still been a great draft pick.

outofhnd
03-29-2005, 10:43 PM
ok maybe a little mismatched, lets say how about

Reggie Cobb, Edgar Bennet, Errict Rhett players that were on the verge of becoming that back but never made it to the next level that is the franchise back. I wont use flat out busts, ill use the slow leaks.

Reddevil63
03-29-2005, 10:46 PM
lol 2 of those 3 were Tampa Bay Buccaneers when the entire franchise was a "slow leak" or as Id say, never inflated :woot

outofhnd
03-30-2005, 01:25 AM
ok fine ill go with this group since that was to Buccaneer for you

Cleveland Gary early 90's
Olandis Gary 2000
Reggie Brooks 1994
Troy Hambrick 2003
Barry Foster 1993
Barry Word 1993

TexansTrueFan
03-30-2005, 05:49 AM
Why?? Some people are saying that DD is gunna be the next Priest Holmes!!!


well they have alot of the same features size, good vision, ability to break tackles, both good recievers, and have both had injury problems in their careers. D.D should have a fairly healthy season i assume he will miss 1 maybe 2 games, but he needs to be around the 1500yrd mark and 14tds (CAUSE 1,000 yrds isnt really all that great anymore since they put 16 games in the season plus some fans will accept nothing less of HIM). If he gets those numbers i expect he will be offered a nice contract after ,

infantrycak
03-30-2005, 08:09 AM
ok fine ill go with this group since that was to Buccaneer for you

Cleveland Gary early 90's
Olandis Gary 2000
Reggie Brooks 1994
Troy Hambrick 2003
Barry Foster 1993
Barry Word 1993

What are you trying to prove here--that 1000 yd seasons mean nothing?

Cleveland Gary--one season over 1000 yds and not until his 4th year in the league
Olandis Gary--one season, not two
Reggie Brooks--one season
Troy Hambrick--zero seasons over 1000 yds
Barry Foster--one season over, 3rd year
Barry Word--one season, 3rd year

If this is your attempt to show DD's performance doesn't mean anything, IMO you have proved the opposite--one hit wonders have one hit, not two.

Here are the current RB's (within the top 100 last year) that started their careers with back to back 1000 yd seasons:

Corey Dillon
Curtis Martin
Edgerrin James
LaDainian Tomlinson
Clinton Portis
Jerome Bettis
Marshall Faulk
Eddie George
Domanick Davis

That is it out of the top 100 RB's from last year. While getting a single 1000 yd season somewhere in your career may not amount to anything anymore, seems starting your career with two back to back seasons that way is pretty rare.

Anybody have any examples of RB's that during the time period of the 16 game schedule started their careers with back to back 1000 yd seasons and then never were successful RB's?

Vinny
03-30-2005, 08:46 AM
That's some good stuff. The art of war is right.

TheOgre
03-30-2005, 08:57 AM
He might not be the next Holmes, but he could have a career like Emmit Smith.

But he could have a career like Lamar Smith.

infantrycak
03-30-2005, 09:48 AM
As a follow up on backs who start with two 1000 yd seasons, here is the list of all of them out of the 1545 RB's that have played in the NFL:

Otis Anderson over 1000 yds 5 of 1st 6 seasons, 2 time pro-bowler
William Andrews 1st 5 seasons, 4 time PB
Jerome Bettis 8 of 1st 9 seasons, 5 time PB
John Brockington 1st 3 seasons, 2 time PB
Earl Campbell 5 of 1st 6 seasons, 5 time PB
Joe Cribbs 3 of 1st 4 seasons, 3 time PB
Terrell Davis 1st 4 seasons, 3 time PB
Eric Dickerson 7 of 1st 8 seasons, 6 time PB
Corey Dillon 7 of 1st 8 seasons, 3 time PB
Tony Dorsett 8 of 9 1st seasons, 4 time PB
Marshall Faulk 7 of 1st 8 seasons, 7 time PB
Eddie George 7 of 1st 8 seasons, 4 time PB
Bobby Humphrey 1st 2 seasons, 1 time PB
Edgerrin James 4 of 1st 6 seasons, 2 time PB
Curtis Martin 1st 10 seasons, 4 time PB
Clinton Portis 1st 3 seasons, 1 time PB
Barry Sanders 1st 10 seasons, 10 time PB
Billy Sims 3 of 1st 4 seasons, 3 time PB
LaDainian Tomlinson 1st 4 seasons, 1 time PB

So 19 (20 with DD) RB's ever out of 1545 RB's in the NFL have started their careers with two 1000 yd seasons and everyone of them has gone to at least 1 pro-bowl. Only John Brockington did it prior to the 16 game season--Tony Dorsett split one 14 game season and one 16 game season. Doesn't mean Domanick Davis will be a hall of famer or even the Texans' RB for long but it does mean he has already done something pretty rare and not near as easy as some of y'all would make out.

Humphrey is in italics because he is the only one that approaches one hit wonder status. Maybe someone with a better recollection can fill in, but I think he had a fumbling problem.

TheOgre
03-30-2005, 10:11 AM
If memory servers me correctly, Humphrey had an attitude problem. It seems like the Dolphins and Broncos traded RB's straight up at one point and Humphrey was part of that trade. He never lived up to his early production.

*edit* It does seem like he had a fumble problem as well.

z0rpAn
03-30-2005, 10:18 AM
overall the RB position is the last spot we need to concentrate on in the draft, if we find our OL needs met this season and DD still doesnt get the RB position impact, then shame on him. It all starts with a solid line. Look at Denver, PItts, SD, KC, Indy. They dont have the sack troubles that we have had and that says a lot when you compare the rushing stats.

SESupergenius
03-30-2005, 10:27 AM
I ask you this, why was our Offensive Coordinator at the Auburn Pro Day if not looking at rb's? I would think that any player can be replaced at any time on our 7-9 team.

Mr Shush
03-30-2005, 10:55 AM
I think it's pretty simple: if one of the top 3 falls to us, we'd be crazy not to take him as he would be the clear BPA - the most likely candidate would be Benson. Otherwise, obviously we won't take a back with our first-round pick, but we may well do later on if a guy we like is available. As I think I've posted elsewhere, I don't think too many Bills fans regret taking McGahee. One point worth considering is that when Davis becomes an FA we don't want to be in the position of having to franchise him or get in a bidding war to keep him - we want him back on our terms at a sensible cap number, which means we have to be realistically able to let him walk if he wants silly money, which means we have to have a credible replacement, which means someone better than Hollings.

O.G.
03-30-2005, 11:03 AM
I think DD is damn good back. Last year her was 11th in the League in rushing with almost 1200 yrds (1188yards) and 3rd in the NFL in total yards among running backs with almost 1800 (1776yards) total yards of offense. I think we have too high expectations when it comes to asking for a back that will rush for 1500 yards and 20 TD's and have over 2000 yards offense. Only one back did that this year, Tiki Barber (2,096 yrds). DD was tied for 4th in the NFL in TD's with J. Bettis, T. Barber and W. Mc Gahee with 13 TD's. The most TD's in the NFL were 17 TD's with LT followed by S. Alexander with 16 TD's and P. Holmes with 14 TD's. DD's not too bad at all. What does everyone else think?

Gilly
03-30-2005, 11:09 AM
I agree 300%. DD is a really good back that WILL soon develope into a great one. I am a huge fan of his and I believe that if we take an RB in the first five rounds it will be a waisted pick. DD is the man. 1500 yards this season with a crappy O-line. :thumbup

Mr Shush
03-30-2005, 11:17 AM
I think Davis is a terrific back too. But I also think the future's pretty hard to predict - he might turn out to be an all-time great, but he might also just start picking up progressively more injuries and never be capable of playing a full season again. He might even get hit by a bus. We just don't know, and if Benson's still on the board at 13 and we take him, I'll be delighted.

Hervoyel
03-30-2005, 11:32 AM
And he could also be the next KiJana Carter, Blair Thomas or Reggie Cobb.

I dunno, I'm not saying DD is going to be the next Priest Holmes or anything but I sort of think he's done more already than those three guys ;)

O.G.
03-30-2005, 12:11 PM
I dunno, I'm not saying DD is going to be the next Priest Holmes or anything but I sort of think he's done more already than those three guys ;)

Yes he has. Just curious, what are the backs that were picked before Davis stats?

Vinny
03-30-2005, 12:18 PM
Musa Smith, Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Chris Brown, Justin Fargas, & Artose Pinner were picked before Dom. I'd probably only rather have McGahee and Larry Johnson. I'm not too big on the other guys although some may make a case for Chris Brown (I don't care for his running style however). I don't consider this a strong RB class.

beerlover
03-30-2005, 01:08 PM
agree with Vinny 2003 was not a great RB class

23 Willis McGahee RB Miami
27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State
77 Musa Smith RB Georgia
93 Chris Brown RB Colorado
96 Justin Fargas RB Southern California
99 Artose Pinner RB Kentucky
101 Domanick Davis RB Louisiana State
105 Onterrio Smith RB Oregon
108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
115 Lee Suggs RB Virginia Tech
132 LaBrandon Toefield RB Louisiana State
206 Brock Forsey RB Boise State
235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama
236 Brandon Drumm RB Colorado
242 J.T. Wall RB Georgia
247 Casey Moore RB Stanford

fast forward to RB class of 2005

Ronnie Brown 6-0, 233 4.45 Auburn
Cedric Benson 5-10, 222 4.52 Texas
Carnell Williams 5-11, 217 4.45 Auburn
Ciatrick Fason 6-1, 207 4.62 Florida
Kay-Jay Harris 6-0, 236 4.56 West Virginia
Eric Shelton 6-1, 248 4.60 Louisville
Vernand Morency 5-10, 212 4.64 Oklahoma State
J.J. Arrington 5-9, 215 4.45 California
Brandon Jacobs 6-4, 265 4.60 Southern Illinois
Marion Barber 5-11, 212 4.50 Minnesota
Ryan Moats 5-8, 210 4.50 Louisiana Tech
Cedric Houston 5-11, 225 4.58 Tennessee
Darren Sproles 5-5, 185 4.50 Kansas State
Frank Gore 5-10, 208 4.65 Miami
T.A. McLendon 5-10, 235 4.70 North Carolina State
Walter Reyes 5-10, 210 4.65 Syracuse
Alex Haynes 5-10, 223 4.55 Central Florida
Ryan Grant 6-1, 215 4.53 Notre Dame
Alvin Pearman 5-10, 210 4.65 Virginia
Maurice Clarett 5-10, 234 4.65 Ohio State

highlighted Ryan Moats as a good comp to DD.

the Texans cannot rest on their laurels & ingnore any player at any position that would help strengthen & improve the overall team :cool:

keyfro
03-30-2005, 01:27 PM
you can put up all the stats in the world at this point it doesn't matter...here's what we do know about DD...he is often injuried and has yet to carry the full load for a full season...in this day in age you win in the NFL with a solid running game consisting of TWO runningbacks not just one...if Cedric Benson fell to us i would expect us to pick him up and use him just as much as we use DD...i don't see a down side of Benson coming here...you can talk all you want about his slow 40 times but that doesn't mean squat to me...do you think Earl Campbell was the fastest runningback...haha...no...he was a pound it down your throat runner which we need...benson actually is very similar to Campbell in running styles...although he doesn't use that great forearm Campbell did he is still a run over you type of back...plus it's never a bad idea to have a running back from UT...just look at their track record so far:
Campbell
Priest
cough Ricky
now it's Benson's turn

michaelm
03-30-2005, 01:27 PM
I think if one of the 'big three' fall to us, we take him.
I won't waste my time trying to prognosticate DDs future performance.
I will, however, contemplate what it would mean to a team such as ours, who holds itself to be (or want to be) a running team, if our starting RB goes out for an extended period. We have NO other RB who I would feel comfortable with over any long stretch of games. Wells does well (no pun!) in spot duty, but I would not want to depend on him if he has to start too many games.
If you don't think the season would be completely SUNK if DD happens to be lost for the season early next year, you are more optimistic that I am. Of course, I know the same can be said for QB, but it's alot harder to have two starting quality QBs on your roster than RBs IMO.
I think that we could use another back, at least if it is one of the afore mentioned big three...

The obvious caveat is that RB is not a (the) priority. Still, take one of the top 3 if available.

Right? Right...

El Tejano
03-30-2005, 02:20 PM
Musa Smith, Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee, Chris Brown, Justin Fargas, & Artose Pinner were picked before Dom. I'd probably only rather have McGahee and Larry Johnson. I'm not too big on the other guys although some may make a case for Chris Brown (I don't care for his running style however). I don't consider this a strong RB class.
And I also believe that you have to look at the lines Larry Johnson, Willis McGahee and Chris Brown play with. Domanick Davis has nowhere near that caliber of a line.

Vinny
03-30-2005, 02:35 PM
Our run blocking is underrated. I have watched enough ball over the years to take that into account.

infantrycak
03-30-2005, 02:46 PM
Our run blocking is underrated. I have watched enough ball over the years to take that into account.

It is underrated because the pass blocking sucks so badly and they get lumped together, but it still doesn't aspire to being a better than average NFL run blocking line. Last year even during the good stretch at the end of the year it was too inconsistant and would do a great job one play and then let the RB get hit 2 yards deep in the backfield. Hopefully this year they can become consistant and in the top 10 run blocking OL's--then we will see what DD, Hollings and anyone drafted (and I expect a RB to be drafted at some point this year) can do.

DoCt3rJ
03-30-2005, 02:54 PM
My opinion on DD is that he is a solid 1000-1200 yard 8 td a year back consistently, now some years he may get 1400 and 12 or w/e, but what everyone is talking about is that top of the line back, the one that gets you 1500 consistently 15td's, I don't think DD will be able to do that consistently, unless we get a real good offensive line. Now we all could be wrong, he could develop more into a all-pro back. We'll just have to see..

infantrycak
03-30-2005, 04:10 PM
My opinion on DD is that he is a solid 1000-1200 yard 8 td a year back consistently, now some years he may get 1400 and 12 or w/e, but what everyone is talking about is that top of the line back, the one that gets you 1500 consistently 15td's, I don't think DD will be able to do that consistently, unless we get a real good offensive line. Now we all could be wrong, he could develop more into a all-pro back. We'll just have to see..

You're setting the bar for what is a good/franchise RB too high. In 2004 only 5 backs had 1500+ yds and only one of those had 15+ TD's. None of those had over 1500 yds in 2003. In 2003 6 backs had 1500+ yds and once again only one of those had 15+ TD's. Only two of those were repeats from 2002. In 2002 only 4 RB's had 1500+ yds with 3 having 15+ TD's as well--of course only one of those guys could repeat the 15 TD performance in 2003.

z0rpAn
03-30-2005, 05:33 PM
if we end up needing another strong RB, go for it next year, we need a compliment for AJ and a good lineman or 2. Look at free agency, Theres anthony thomas, garrison hearst, and amos zeroue just to name a couple.

outofhnd
04-01-2005, 04:02 AM
the only one i would fathom taking of those three is anthony thomas because he is a bulldozer back.

It might do DD good if he had a back who could bring it head on to the defense so after they have been winded from trying to bring down our power back, DD should be able to pick his way for some very nice gains.