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Errant Hothy
10-25-2010, 12:04 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7262705.html

Defensive tackle Frank Okam was placed on waivers. Replacing him is defensive tackle Damione Lewis, a 6-2, 301-pound native of Sulphur Springs who was released by the Patriots in the preseason. He played for the Panthers the previous four seasons.

The Texans also signed linebacker Stanford Keglar, who played two seasons for the Titans.

Defensive tackle Tim Jamison, who was with the Texans last season and was with the team in preseason, was signed to the practice squad.

Thoughts?

Section516
10-25-2010, 12:06 PM
Do we still have that open roster spot? Released Salaam and Nixon, but only got back brown IIRC?

drewmar74
10-25-2010, 12:07 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7262705.html



Thoughts?

Doesn't that still leave us with an open roster spot?

HuttoKarl
10-25-2010, 12:10 PM
That move should have happened last year.

IDEXAN
10-25-2010, 12:14 PM
I thought there was some renewed hope for Okams career here ? Guess I thought wrong.
Now we got no size anywhere in DTs ? Apparently that's how they like it ?

Blazin' Toro
10-25-2010, 12:16 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/stanfordkeglar/profile?id=KEG360877

See this is what I am talking about, the Texans sign yet another no name, no help player, who will be released next year or have play time and get burned in the game all day.

The Pencil Neck
10-25-2010, 12:20 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/stanfordkeglar/profile?id=KEG360877

See this is what I am talking about, the Texans sign yet another no name, no help player, who will be released next year or have play time and get burned in the game all day.

Like Bernard Pollard and Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson?

What the hell are you talking about? First, Smith has been pretty amazing at getting guys off the street that have come in here and contributed. Secondly, Keglar, like Nixon before him, is primarily a special teams signing.

Blazin' Toro
10-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Like Bernard Pollard and Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson?

What the hell are you talking about? First, Smith has been pretty amazing at getting guys off the street that have come in here and contributed. Secondly, Keglar, like Nixon before him, is primarily a special teams signing.

Well, if it's a special team signing it seems to me that we have good depth and no problems on ST. I do think, however, that we need a huge amount of help at linebacker, safety or cornerback. It's just my opinion maybe I am seeing something wrong in our defense? As for Pollard that was a great move picking him up, but Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson were average at best. We need someone to help this defense out, a consistent player, there's gotta be a free agent out there to help..

rmartin65
10-25-2010, 12:33 PM
No Malcolm Sheppard?

EDIT: Just saw it in another thread.

Mr teX
10-25-2010, 12:35 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/stanfordkeglar/profile?id=KEG360877

See this is what I am talking about, the Texans sign yet another no name, no help player, who will be released next year or have play time and get burned in the game all day.

There's no one. Hell, they went out & got Ogunleye a guy with a "name" & look at him thus far. pure, unadultered garbage.

Hervoyel
10-25-2010, 01:02 PM
Okam can go be a lawyer or a fry cook or whatever it was that he wanted to be instead of a football player now. Best thing for everybody involved. It's time the Texans focused on drafting some really good defensive linem...... oh, never mind.

Maybe we should bust out one of those drafts where we pick only DT's for 7 rounds? We can't pick them out of a crowd so maybe we should just go get a crowd and see who sticks.

gtexan02
10-25-2010, 01:03 PM
Okam can go be a lawyer or a fry cook or whatever it was that he wanted to be instead of a football player now. Best thing for everybody involved. It's time the Texans focused on drafting some really good defensive linem...... oh, never mind.

Maybe we should bust out one of those drafts where we pick only DT's for 7 rounds? We can't pick them out of a crowd so maybe we should just go get a crowd and see who sticks.

When youve failed at both drafting and free agency, it starts to look more and more like its the scheme

No More 8-8's
10-25-2010, 02:14 PM
per chron.com

Frank Okam waived.
Sheppard elevated from PS
and Damione Lewis & Stanford Keglar signed.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/7262705.html

delete if this info is already reported.

JWarren14
10-25-2010, 02:15 PM
At least they are making some moves, if one of these players can step up and get some pressure it will be a good thing.

cdollaz
10-25-2010, 02:28 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/stanfordkeglar/profile?id=KEG360877

See this is what I am talking about, the Texans sign yet another no name, no help player, who will be released next year or have play time and get burned in the game all day.

Maybe if we ask nicely, some other teams will just give us their good players.

fiasco west
10-25-2010, 02:33 PM
Not going to get too excited. Reading some things from Sheppard and he has 'steal' potential. Played in the SEC and was injured before the combine. Also seems to be a hard worker, he wants to be on the football field more than Okam so that's an improvement already.

El Tejano
10-25-2010, 02:37 PM
Not going to get too excited. Reading some things from Sheppard and he has 'steal' potential. Played in the SEC and was injured before the combine. Also seems to be a hard worker, he wants to be on the football field more than Okam so that's an improvement already.
That right there is the difference altogether.

badboy
10-25-2010, 02:41 PM
Well, if it's a special team signing it seems to me that we have good depth and no problems on ST. I do think, however, that we need a huge amount of help at linebacker, safety or cornerback. It's just my opinion maybe I am seeing something wrong in our defense? As for Pollard that was a great move picking him up, but Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson were average at best. We need someone to help this defense out, a consistent player, there's gotta be a free agent out there to help..Why do you think that?

Hagar
10-25-2010, 02:46 PM
I have to admit, I'm disappointed in Big Frank. I thought he was going to bring us hugh value for that fifth round pick.

buddyboy
10-25-2010, 02:49 PM
Well, if it's a special team signing it seems to me that we have good depth and no problems on ST. I do think, however, that we need a huge amount of help at linebacker, safety or cornerback. It's just my opinion maybe I am seeing something wrong in our defense? As for Pollard that was a great move picking him up, but Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson were average at best. We need someone to help this defense out, a consistent player, there's gotta be a free agent out there to help..

Got any names yourself, or are you just creating this ideal free agent market where if you try real hard, you'll find a player who just so happens to not have a team, yet can improve your defense.

Fact is, at this point in the season, outside of a few outliers and lucky breaks, players who have potential to help a team improve are, well, already on a team.

ArlingtonTexan
10-25-2010, 02:52 PM
Well, if it's a special team signing it seems to me that we have good depth and no problems on ST. I do think, however, that we need a huge amount of help at linebacker, safety or cornerback. It's just my opinion maybe I am seeing something wrong in our defense? As for Pollard that was a great move picking him up, but Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson were average at best. We need someone to help this defense out, a consistent player, there's gotta be a free agent out there to help..

Do you actually folow the NFL? There are not enough good players at (insert position) to go around to 32 teams. You get lucky (see Pollard) but most of the time you can find guys that can fill-in a role or something, but for the most part in-season free agents not going to improve a unit even when they have some record of production (see the ex-bear DEs we are trotting out)

The Pencil Neck
10-25-2010, 09:42 PM
Well, if it's a special team signing it seems to me that we have good depth and no problems on ST. I do think, however, that we need a huge amount of help at linebacker, safety or cornerback. It's just my opinion maybe I am seeing something wrong in our defense? As for Pollard that was a great move picking him up, but Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson were average at best. We need someone to help this defense out, a consistent player, there's gotta be a free agent out there to help..

We'll have Adibi, Bentley, and Sharpton all coming back from injury. That's an immediate upgrade to our LB situation. Keglar is just there for ST, just like Nixon was. As well as Nixon played after Demeco went out, he had to have blown some assignments in ST to get cut.

Both Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson came in and gave us some good minutes and a boost at their position. Demps even played so well that he went to the Pro Bowl that season. I'm still surprised Deljuan was let go, he seemed like one of our stronger interior d-line -- but he was inconsistent.

And, no, there don't gotta be a free agent out there that's an upgrade. There may be. There may even be someone on a practice squad somewhere that could help, but there doesn't HAVE to be. If there was, there are other teams with the same needs that we have who aren't signing them either.

dalemurphy
10-25-2010, 10:27 PM
I am thrilled with these moves! I'm frustrated it took them two months to realize what some of us already knew:

Okam shouldn't be on the team.
Sheppard should.
Jamison should.

By the way, I also love moving Cushing to the middle and starting Bentley on the strong side. Apparently, the bye week has been useful for the coaching staff. I am excited to see the adjustments they've made in action.

awtysst
10-25-2010, 10:33 PM
I have to admit, I'm disappointed in Big Frank. I thought he was going to bring us hugh value for that fifth round pick.

That's why he was a fifth rounder: if he turns into a player you are overjoyed. If not, eh, not a huge deal.

Blazin' Toro
10-26-2010, 12:53 AM
And, no, there don't gotta be a free agent out there that's an upgrade. There may be. There may even be someone on a practice squad somewhere that could help, but there doesn't HAVE to be. If there was, there are other teams with the same needs that we have who aren't signing them either.

Well then, I am guess I am just straight up wrong. Maybe we'll get lucky enough and someone releases a LB that we could use, like last year when we signed Pollard a couple games in. I guess that in the NFL to sign a decent FA they need to be released from a team? I never knew there weren't guys sitting home waiting for a call to be signed.

ObsiWan
10-26-2010, 12:58 AM
Well, if it's a special team signing it seems to me that we have good depth and no problems on ST. I do think, however, that we need a huge amount of help at linebacker, safety or cornerback. It's just my opinion maybe I am seeing something wrong in our defense? As for Pollard that was a great move picking him up, but Will Demps and Deljuan Robinson were average at best. We need someone to help this defense out, a consistent player, there's gotta be a free agent out there to help..

While I totally agree with the first part of that statement, I noticed you didn't offer up any possible names...?
:thinking:
Damn if I can think of anyone (or find anyone by searching F/A's on nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com/freeagency#players-tab-set-1:players-grid-container-position/players-list-links-position:pos-dl) or elsewhere (http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2010DT.php)) that's significantly better than what we got in the F/A DT or LB area.

thunderkyss
10-26-2010, 07:08 AM
Got any names yourself, or are you just creating this ideal free agent market where if you try real hard, you'll find a player who just so happens to not have a team, yet can improve your defense.

Fact is, at this point in the season, outside of a few outliers and lucky breaks, players who have potential to help a team improve are, well, already on a team.

So this brings the question, did our coaching staff screw the pooch in the off-season, or is the injury bug being played down again in Houston?

I think injuries really screwed us last year, & the coaches did well, considering. But I don't want to use that as an excuse for this coaching staff.

Last year, it was the OL, this time it's to the DL, where depth & rotation is much, much more important.

I said I was going to back away from the kool-aid & not be the bearer of sunshine around here. But when you look at something like what is going on right now.... I can't help it. I like what they are doing, & feel everything is going to be alright.

Putting Cushing in the middle is going to be huge for our pass defense.

Beefing up our DL rotation is going to be huge.

The only thing left I need to see, to get back on the kool-aid, is a better start from our offense. If they can put together some drives in the first half (not go 3 & out) & put up some points in the first half, I believe we'll see a defense more like what we expected to see based on where we were last year.

I'm expecting to run the ball & run the ball well against the Colts. But I'm really worried about the passing game. We saw them "out of sync" in week 1. Several posters said it was nothing to worry about.

I think that "out of sync" has been our biggest problem so far, totally changes the dynamics of this team on both sides of the ball.

kiwitexansfan
10-26-2010, 08:05 AM
Now we got no size anywhere in DTs ? Apparently that's how they like it ?

Ummmm, if you have ever heard the coaching staff talk about what they want in a DT, this would already be patently obvious.

DerekLee1
10-26-2010, 08:37 AM
Ummmm, if you have ever heard the coaching staff talk about what they want in a DT, this would already be patently obvious.

We don't need size from a DT. We need a pass rush. Our DL already plays the run well.

GP
10-26-2010, 08:42 AM
...I can't help it. I like what they are doing, & feel everything is going to be alright.

I have a feeling that these coaches drag their feet on what is obvious to the even the most casual Texans fan.

In fact, I would say their casual nature about roster moves and depth chart changes is then replicated on the field with the attitude by both the offense and defense. Members of a team will either take on the attitude of their leadership, or they will reject it outright and refuse to play along with management/leadership. I fear we have a product on the field that reflects the leadership: Slow-poking along and thinking tiny tweaks every year will fit the bill.

There's no sense of urgency. It's how our coaches and/or management failed to lock up several running backs. For example, look at what LT is doing for the Jets. Phenomenal. The Jets have a sense of urgency about them, and it's reflected in how they have gone after GOOD players. They're even able to compensate for a 2nd year Qb who really isn't all that good to begin with. There's a reason why certain free agents are hesitant to come to Houston, and might just center upon those free agents sensing what I sense: That the Texans are above-average but they don't know how to get to the top yet.

I'm glad you gulped Kool Aid, then told us you weren't anymore, and are now pouring yourself another pint of it. Awesome.

I see a team whose decision-makers release players they shouldn't, keep players they shouldn't, START players they shouldn't, hold onto players wayyyy longer than they should, and then are FORCED to put a guy like Jamison (who never should have been cut in the first place, btw) back out there. Sheppard is a guy who squeezes through blockers, too, and where has he been? Relegated to the far reaches of the Practice Squad for reasons unknown and probably unwarranted if we DID end up finding out why.

This team's decision-makers are a peculiar bunch. Like I said, many times before, it feels like this team wins IN SPITE OF its leaders/coaches. It's a miracle they are winning at all. if they had a savvy set of coaches, there's no telling what we'd be seeing on Sundays. It feels like amateur hour right now.

Gulp, gulp, gulp.....

GP
10-26-2010, 08:45 AM
Some people should just embrace that they are excellent designers of offenses/o-coordinators and leave the "head" coaching to the professionals.

/rant

thunderkyss
10-26-2010, 09:16 AM
Some people should just embrace that they are excellent designers of offenses/o-coordinators and leave the "head" coaching to the professionals.

/rant

I know what you mean.


:sarcasm:

thunderkyss
10-26-2010, 09:55 AM
There's no sense of urgency.

I agree with this. Or that Kubiak & crew are just soooooo cool, that we don't perceive that urgency. Regardless, I agree the perception is that there is no urgency.

It's how our coaches and/or management failed to lock up several running backs. For example, look at what LT is doing for the Jets. Phenomenal.

I was a fan of the idea of signing LT or Thomas Jones. At the time, it felt like I was in the minority. However with what we've seen from Foster & Ward..... even Slaton, I think the coaches got this one right.

The Jets have a sense of urgency about them, and it's reflected in how they have gone after GOOD players. They're even able to compensate for a 2nd year Qb who really isn't all that good to begin with. There's a reason why certain free agents are hesitant to come to Houston, and might just center upon those free agents sensing what I sense: That the Texans are above-average but they don't know how to get to the top yet.

I agree with most of this, also agree that what you sense, may be how the FAs look at Houston. But...... that supports the argument for not going after FAs. They'll just use us to up the ante. It's happened so many times we ended up with Ahman Green & Ron Dayne as our savior. We're a second chance team right now. FAs who need to prove who they are give us a look over. Those who know what they got..... not so much.

I'm glad you gulped Kool Aid, then told us you weren't anymore, and are now pouring yourself another pint of it. Awesome.

yeah.... emotional reaction to the Bills pouncing on the Ravens & the 225 yards of Kenny Brit on Philly.

I should have stayed away for a couple of hours.

I see a team whose decision-makers release players they shouldn't, keep players they shouldn't, START players they shouldn't, hold onto players wayyyy longer than they should, and then are FORCED to put a guy like Jamison (who never should have been cut in the first place, btw) back out there. Sheppard is a guy who squeezes through blockers, too, and where has he been? Relegated to the far reaches of the Practice Squad for reasons unknown and probably unwarranted if we DID end up finding out why.

This team's decision-makers are a peculiar bunch. Like I said, many times before, it feels like this team wins IN SPITE OF its leaders/coaches. It's a miracle they are winning at all. if they had a savvy set of coaches, there's no telling what we'd be seeing on Sundays. It feels like amateur hour right now.

Gulp, gulp, gulp.....


If Earl Mitchel were healthy, would we be activating Sheppard? I wouldn't think so. I believe there are a lot of things that this staff does, we can't explain, not because they are doing things wrong, but they are doing things we wouldn't do (which isn't necessarily right).

If I were a head coach, & I'm going to get fired. I'm going to get fired for doing what I think is the right thing, unlike guys like Dave Campo & Barry Switzer who got fired for doing what other people (Jerry Jones) told them to do. Or Dom Capers....

I have no idea how this season is going to turn out. I have no idea what they were thinking with Okam. Couldn't care less what happened to DelJuan.

I'm just along for the ride. If you're bent on making sure that ride is as miserable as possible for as many people as possible..... that's you, I'm the other guy.

Andre_Johnson
10-26-2010, 10:09 AM
We don't need size from a DT. We need a pass rush. Our DL already plays the run well.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Sorry I can't stop laughing :laughjump:

You obviously haven't been watching us play this year, the only reason we haven't given up 20 yards/per run has been because Demeco was making up such poor play in the middle by our WEAK DTs, such as Amobe Okoye who consistently gets pushed back five yards every play.

When teams run the draw it's a foot race to catch the opposing running back, that could be avoided if we had some DTs that could stuff the run.

gtexan02
10-26-2010, 10:13 AM
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Sorry I can't stop laughing :laughjump:

You obviously haven't been watching us play this year, the only reason we haven't given up 20 yards/per run has been because Demeco was making up such poor play in the middle by our WEAK DTs, such as Amobe Okoye who consistently gets pushed back five yards every play.

When teams run the draw it's a foot race to catch the opposing running back, that could be avoided if we had some DTs that could stuff the run.

??

We're giving up 4.2 yards per carry, which is right in line with the league average (we're ranked 18)

Our rush D is quite average at the moment, but its certainly not as bad as you're making it sound. Our "Small" DTs were capable of totally shutting down the run last year. He's right, we dont need fat DTs to be effective at run stopping. We need disruptive DTs. Size is irrelevent to a large extent

Andre_Johnson
10-26-2010, 10:31 AM
??

We're giving up 4.2 yards per carry, which is right in line with the league average (we're ranked 18)

Our rush D is quite average at the moment, but its certainly not as bad as you're making it sound. Our "Small" DTs were capable of totally shutting down the run last year. He's right, we dont need fat DTs to be effective at run stopping. We need disruptive DTs. Size is irrelevent to a large extent

The ranking is a very vague stat, especially when it's so easy to just pass on our DBs. I'm not saying we need "fat" DTs, I said "run stuffing."

DerekLee said we don't need to worry about the run, and that we need more pash rushing DTs. I was just pointing out that that's the problem, and it's hard to pass rush when the opposing teams see the big hole up the middle because of Okoye. By the way, Okoye is a "pass rushing" DT. It isn't working, because he's too small and thus not disruptive. You don't have to be the fattest guy on the field to be disruptive, but it's more than obvious that you have to be at least as big and strong as the guy you're trying to get through on the other side of the ball.

Andre_Johnson
10-26-2010, 10:33 AM
And like I said before, Demeco Ryans had a lot to do with those 4.2 YPC. Making up for the bad DTs

TheCD
10-26-2010, 10:44 AM
You obviously haven't been watching us play this year, the only reason we haven't given up 20 yards/per run has been because Demeco was making up such poor play in the middle by our WEAK DTs, such as Amobe Okoye who consistently gets pushed back five yards every play.

When teams run the draw it's a foot race to catch the opposing running back, that could be avoided if we had some DTs that could stuff the run.


I'll disagree with you here. The draw plays aren't necessarily working because our DT's can't stop the run or plug a gap. It's most likley because they're reacting to our over-aggressiveness on passing downs. Much like a screen works when you blitz, a draw works when the DL is focused on rushing the passer.

I've seen quite a few stops on 2nd and 3rd and short this year, so to say that our DL is terrible at it is an over-reaction, I believe.

Andre_Johnson
10-26-2010, 10:50 AM
I'll disagree with you here. The draw plays aren't necessarily working because our DT's can't stop the run or plug a gap. It's most likley because they're reacting to our over-aggressiveness on passing downs. Much like a screen works when you blitz, a draw works when the DL is focused on rushing the passer.

I've seen quite a few stops on 2nd and 3rd and short this year, so to say that our DL is terrible at it is an over-reaction, I believe.

I see what you're saying and I'm not going to disagree, but you can't tell me that DT is a strength of our defense.

TheCD
10-26-2010, 11:06 AM
I see what you're saying and I'm not going to disagree, but you can't tell me that DT is a strength of our defense.

Completely understand. I just don't want to sell them short on what they are doing (at least moderately) well. They are undersized, which can spell doom for us if we play a team with a strong running game that has a lead in the 4th, but in spurts (if our offense stays on the field) our defense is adequate. It's not great, it won't impress anyone, but it will get some key stops here and there if they are rested.

GP
10-26-2010, 11:44 AM
I'm just along for the ride. If you're bent on making sure that ride is as miserable as possible for as many people as possible..... that's you, I'm the other guy.

No, I don't get that tag. There's about 3 others who make that their job.

Your job has been to say that what we see is not what's really there. Or that we don't have all the information. Or that at any moment things are going to ignite and therefore nullify the past few years of random roster moves, depth chart decisions, and inconsistent playcalling and a lack of in-game adjustments to what the other team is doing. Correction: Kubiak figured out at the half of this year's week 1 game vs. Colts that he could run Foster over the Colts all day long. Outside of that instance, I'm not seeing a coaching staff who understands that adjustments have to be made almost snap-by-snap.

For example: Eli Manning, last night, was amazing. He was making pre-snap reads and then calling audibles that torched the Cowboys. us? Hell no. We don't roll like that. But Eli Manning is making Coughlin and Gilbride look like geniuses out there. What does this have to do with us? With the Texans? well, I believe Matt Schaub is an intelligent guy. I think he's a fierce competitor. I think he could do what the Manning boys do: Call the shots when situations dictate. Yes, he does it SOMETIMES but not to the degree that he should. You just get the feeling that Kubiak says "This is what we've called, and you're going to run THIS play. It's MY system. I call the shots." I get the sense that Kubiak can't delegate when he should, and he can't micromanage when he should. And if he does end up doing one or the other, it's often 2 months (or a whole season) too late. No. Sense. Of. Urgency.

That's why I say this team wins IN SPITE OF its coaches and the resulting poor roster/depth chart decision-making, playcalling, and lack of in-game adjustments. The team starts off slow because of the overall culture of its caoch, and yet it can maintain composure and come from behind because of that same mindset (never giving up, keeping a steady pace, being diligent, etc.). It's not all bad, don't get me wrong, but there's a lack of shifting gears and it often comes too late.

It is simple: The same guys (coaches, especially Kubiak) who get the praise for the things that go right (such as the potency of our offense) also get the blame for the things that go horribly wrong (too many to list here).

I'm not making anybody's ride unbearable. Neither are you. We're engaging in discussion, and it's quite a challenge to keep up with you. Now that I think about it, sometimes what I read from you is not really what I am reading from you. You've been good to correct us on many occasions as to how what you said is not what you said, etc. I can see now where you get your theories on the problems (or maybe they are not really problems? LOL) with the team.

Everything will just somehow sort itself out. It just takes time, doesn't it? See, I can't figure out if you really buy into your own rhetoric or if it's your way of not dealing with the possibility that Kubiak isn't going to make it and what that means to you (and to us) as Texans fans...regarding a rebuilding season that might not go as planned. You seem conflicted as to what you really feel, and so you're (IMO) throwing things on the wall and seeing if they stick. You're "thinking out loud," so to speak and then clutching to those out-loud thoughts whenever you choose. Or dropping them. Or picking them back up again. It's arbitrary, I suppose?

I, on the other hand, am mentally and emotionally prepared for this team to implode and go through a rebuilding phase..or I am also fully prepared to see this team take flight like it should. But my radar indicates a holding pattern over the airfield, with no clear skies for quite awhile. The plane is in the air, but it's not moving toward its goal like it should.

thunderkyss
10-26-2010, 11:54 AM
No, I don't get that tag. There's about 3 others who make that their job.

Your job has been to say that what we see is not what's really there. Or that we don't have all the information. Or that at any moment things are going to ignite and therefore nullify the past few years of random roster moves, depth chart decisions, and inconsistent playcalling and a lack of in-game adjustments to what the other team is doing.

Right...... that's me.

& you're right I'm sorry, you're no DexmanC.

thunderkyss
10-26-2010, 12:12 PM
For example: Eli Manning, last night, was amazing. He was making pre-snap reads and then calling audibles that torched the Cowboys. us? Hell no. We don't roll like that. But Eli Manning is making Coughlin and Gilbride look like geniuses out there. What does this have to do with us? With the Texans? well, I believe Matt Schaub is an intelligent guy. I think he's a fierce competitor. I think he could do what the Manning boys do: Call the shots when situations dictate. Yes, he does it SOMETIMES but not to the degree that he should. You just get the feeling that Kubiak says "This is what we've called, and you're going to run THIS play. It's MY system. I call the shots." I get the sense that Kubiak can't delegate when he should, and he can't micromanage when he should. And if he does end up doing one or the other, it's often 2 months (or a whole season) too late. No. Sense. Of. Urgency.


Don't trust your eyes, trust me.

I know what you are saying, but if that were the case, there's no way Matt could throw for 4770 yards in a single season. & if you look at Matt's stats since he's got here, he's usually been on pace to do that. Injuries have been the only thing that prevented him from throwing 4000 yards a season....... so either Kubiak is clairvoyent, or we don't understand his system & the options it presents Matt Schaub.

GP
10-26-2010, 12:18 PM
Don't trust your eyes, trust me.

I know what you are saying, but if that were the case, there's no way Matt could throw for 4770 yards in a single season. & if you look at Matt's stats since he's got here, he's usually been on pace to do that. Injuries have been the only thing that prevented him from throwing 4000 yards a season....... so either Kubiak is clairvoyent, or we don't understand his system & the options it presents Matt Schaub.

Ah, but the huge passing yards also tell another story...there's this thing called sacks, interceptions, and other blown opportunities within the Red Zone.

Last year, we moved the ball relatively easy between the 20s. It was getting near the end zone that presented a huge challenge for our offense.

So you can generally rack up lots of yardage between the 20s, bog down near the EZ, and have it affect the outcome of games. Lots of yards, but it doesn't translate to wins.

I'm talking about the play where Eli (last night) got down near the end zone, and he audibles out of a pass play and hands it off to Bradshaw for a huge run that caught the Cowboys by surprise. Eli saw the blitz, and made th right call. He did it again when he audibled to a WR bubble screen-type of play )to Nicks, I think). At some point, the QB and his WRs are just toying with defenses. Eli did it to us, and he did with the Cowboys, too. But we don't want to really analyze that, because it would put the spotlight onto our Qb and his head coach...and then it blows up a lot of theories around here. We're better off just ignoring it and thinking that what Eli and his WRs are doing is just a freak, random event that doesn't (or couldn't) possibly be used elsewhere in the NFL. Maybe Eli really IS just that better than the average QB. I just think Schaub is as capable as Eli. And our WRs are as competent as Nicks, Smith, and What's his name.

How many times do we see Schaub at about the 5 or 10, on maybe 3rd and goal, and you can see the defense is bringing the house...and what happens? Schaub either gets killed on a sack or he just barely gets the ball thrown (and then it's a crap shoot if the ball makes it to its intended target). You can sense that Schaub is stuck with that play and that he BETTER run THAT play.

Or is what I am seeing not really what's happening? Sometimes I over-simplify things when I should be searching for buried treasure out there.

TimeKiller
10-26-2010, 12:27 PM
We need to clone Antonio Smith. I would take a 4 man DL of Antonio, Antonio, Antonio & Antonio. The ninja thing might get old but watching the DL gush through the OL on every play wouldn't.

AS isn't fat either. He's just strong and angry. I'd take 4 of him before I took 4 Haynesworth's or Jenkins or Hampton's or hell, even 4 Marios.

The Pencil Neck
10-26-2010, 01:54 PM
Well then, I am guess I am just straight up wrong. Maybe we'll get lucky enough and someone releases a LB that we could use, like last year when we signed Pollard a couple games in. I guess that in the NFL to sign a decent FA they need to be released from a team? I never knew there weren't guys sitting home waiting for a call to be signed.

The Pollard situation was very, very bizarre. Here was a guy who was a 2nd round draft choice who'd lead his team in tackles for a couple of years. A new coaching staff came in and they didn't get along so the coaching staff cut him.

Word on the street was that the guy was a headcase and difficult to deal with in the locker room.

A big reason he came to us was because his old DB coach (Gibbs) had come here. And Gibbs liked him.

Talented guys get cut all the time. But there's usually a pretty good reason they were on the street this late in the season to begin with (age, injury, character issues). We've been pretty spoiled by Smith because he's signed a lot of guys off the street and they've stuck them into the line up and the guys have performed.

But usually guys that get signed off the street are just peripheral players who are lucky to be activated and usually just play ST.

The Pencil Neck
10-26-2010, 01:59 PM
You can sense that Schaub is stuck with that play and that he BETTER run THAT play.

Or is what I am seeing not really what's happening? Sometimes I over-simplify things when I should be searching for buried treasure out there.


That's not really the way our offense works. At least, not according to what Kubiak and Schaub have said in the press conferences.

In our offense, what's signalled in is a play with a bunch of options. The actual play that gets executed is supposed to depend on the defense. Although Schaub is supposed to read the defense and then shift to the right play to take advantage of the defense, it's not technically an audible because he's not actually changing the play, he's just deciding on the variation to use.

DexmanC
10-26-2010, 02:24 PM
No, I don't get that tag. There's about 3 others who make that their job.

Your job has been to say that what we see is not what's really there. Or that we don't have all the information. Or that at any moment things are going to ignite and therefore nullify the past few years of random roster moves, depth chart decisions, and inconsistent playcalling and a lack of in-game adjustments to what the other team is doing. Correction: Kubiak figured out at the half of this year's week 1 game vs. Colts that he could run Foster over the Colts all day long. Outside of that instance, I'm not seeing a coaching staff who understands that adjustments have to be made almost snap-by-snap.

For example: Eli Manning, last night, was amazing. He was making pre-snap reads and then calling audibles that torched the Cowboys. us? Hell no. We don't roll like that. But Eli Manning is making Coughlin and Gilbride look like geniuses out there. What does this have to do with us? With the Texans? well, I believe Matt Schaub is an intelligent guy. I think he's a fierce competitor. I think he could do what the Manning boys do: Call the shots when situations dictate. Yes, he does it SOMETIMES but not to the degree that he should. You just get the feeling that Kubiak says "This is what we've called, and you're going to run THIS play. It's MY system. I call the shots." I get the sense that Kubiak can't delegate when he should, and he can't micromanage when he should. And if he does end up doing one or the other, it's often 2 months (or a whole season) too late. No. Sense. Of. Urgency.

That's why I say this team wins IN SPITE OF its coaches and the resulting poor roster/depth chart decision-making, playcalling, and lack of in-game adjustments. The team starts off slow because of the overall culture of its caoch, and yet it can maintain composure and come from behind because of that same mindset (never giving up, keeping a steady pace, being diligent, etc.). It's not all bad, don't get me wrong, but there's a lack of shifting gears and it often comes too late.

It is simple: The same guys (coaches, especially Kubiak) who get the praise for the things that go right (such as the potency of our offense) also get the blame for the things that go horribly wrong (too many to list here).

I'm not making anybody's ride unbearable. Neither are you. We're engaging in discussion, and it's quite a challenge to keep up with you. Now that I think about it, sometimes what I read from you is not really what I am reading from you. You've been good to correct us on many occasions as to how what you said is not what you said, etc. I can see now where you get your theories on the problems (or maybe they are not really problems? LOL) with the team.

Everything will just somehow sort itself out. It just takes time, doesn't it? See, I can't figure out if you really buy into your own rhetoric or if it's your way of not dealing with the possibility that Kubiak isn't going to make it and what that means to you (and to us) as Texans fans...regarding a rebuilding season that might not go as planned. You seem conflicted as to what you really feel, and so you're (IMO) throwing things on the wall and seeing if they stick. You're "thinking out loud," so to speak and then clutching to those out-loud thoughts whenever you choose. Or dropping them. Or picking them back up again. It's arbitrary, I suppose?

I, on the other hand, am mentally and emotionally prepared for this team to implode and go through a rebuilding phase..or I am also fully prepared to see this team take flight like it should. But my radar indicates a holding pattern over the airfield, with no clear skies for quite awhile. The plane is in the air, but it's not moving toward its goal like it should.

The only reaction a Kool-Aid sober fan can have to this paragraph, is
CO-SIGN.

ObsiWan
10-26-2010, 03:37 PM
That's not really the way our offense works. At least, not according to what Kubiak and Schaub have said in the press conferences.

In our offense, what's signalled in is a play with a bunch of options. The actual play that gets executed is supposed to depend on the defense. Although Schaub is supposed to read the defense and then shift to the right play to take advantage of the defense, it's not technically an audible because he's not actually changing the play, he's just deciding on the variation to use.

I thought I saw someplace - I think it was a Schaub quote - that two plays are sent in; one each running and passing play. So depending on what Schaub sees, he can audible out of a passing play into a running play or vice versa.

Is my memory playing tricks on me
...again?

CloakNNNdagger
10-26-2010, 03:57 PM
Okam can go be a lawyer or a fry cook or whatever it was that he wanted to be instead of a football player now. Best thing for everybody involved. It's time the Texans focused on drafting some really good defensive linem...... oh, never mind.

Maybe we should bust out one of those drafts where we pick only DT's for 7 rounds? We can't pick them out of a crowd so maybe we should just go get a crowd and see who sticks.


Do you really want to wish on us 7 busts in one season????:gun:

CloakNNNdagger
10-26-2010, 04:05 PM
That's why he was a fifth rounder: if he turns into a player you are overjoyed. If not, eh, not a huge deal.

The problem is all the time and effort that was put into Okam. Most teams can evaluate talent quickly enough that nondeveloping players aren't kept on welfare while there is such great need at this position.

CloakNNNdagger
10-26-2010, 04:12 PM
We don't need size from a DT. We need a pass rush. Our DL already plays the run well.

I'm thinking it's more smoke and mirrors. We're doing half way descently in run D because teams rarely find it necessary to rely on the run against us. Furthermore, we fill the box routinely to help a seemingly "strong" DL.

GP
10-26-2010, 04:13 PM
I thought I saw someplace - I think it was a Schaub quote - that two plays are sent in; one each running and passing play. So depending on what Schaub sees, he can audible out of a passing play into a running play or vice versa.

Is my memory playing tricks on me
...again?

In other words, Kubiak gives him a passing play (Let's say a slant by KW, a curl by AJ, and a post route by Jacoby) and he gets a running play (a sweep play to Foster).

If that's the case, whereby he gets a SPECIFIC play for a pass and a SPECIFIC play for a run, then that is insane in the membrane IMO.

Your QB has to be able to access a wide array of audibles depending on how the defensive line, the LBs, and the CBs and the Safeties are all lined up. Because if you see a draw play would work better than a sweep play, then why would your QB be hamstrung by only being allowed to audible to the sweep play when the sweep play would likely fail as miserably as the passing play would have?

LOL.

It appears Eli and his offense are given a lot of latitude and freedom to adapt as each snap occurs. And that's, IMO, why they have so much success this year. Those WRs were eating up the Cowboys last night.

Hakeem Nicks is about the best impersonator of Andre Johnson I've seen in many seasons. He's naturally athletic, built like a marble statue and uses it to his advantage (rather than just a chiseled body with no brains to pair with it), he's smart, he's quick-twitch, a heads-up guy who adjusts on the fly. I am extremely impressed with the player. Big time.

And I don't think he's a fluke, either. He's going to do well, for many years, if he continues to play like he has this year.

ObsiWan
10-26-2010, 04:33 PM
That's why he was a fifth rounder: if he turns into a player you are overjoyed. If not, eh, not a huge deal.

The problem is all the time and effort that was put into Okam. Most teams can evaluate talent quickly enough that nondeveloping players aren't kept on welfare while there is such great need at this position.

I seem to recall folks on draft day saying that the Mitchell pick was a clear and unambiguous msg to Okam - "This guy is here to replace you". It took 6 wks but Okam finally got his walking papers.

ObsiWan
10-26-2010, 05:25 PM
In other words, Kubiak gives him a passing play (Let's say a slant by KW, a curl by AJ, and a post route by Jacoby) and he gets a running play (a sweep play to Foster).

If that's the case, whereby he gets a SPECIFIC play for a pass and a SPECIFIC play for a run, then that is insane in the membrane IMO.

Your QB has to be able to access a wide array of audibles depending on how the defensive line, the LBs, and the CBs and the Safeties are all lined up. Because if you see a draw play would work better than a sweep play, then why would your QB be hamstrung by only being allowed to audible to the sweep play when the sweep play would likely fail as miserably as the passing play would have?

LOL.

I find it amusing that you tailor your scenario to fit your side of the discussion but I guess we all do that. If a sweep wouldn't work, to use your scenario, it would most likely be because the defense is over-loaded to the side the sweep was intended to be run to. Schaub has two choices: (1) flip the play to run the sweep to the other side or (2) call a the pass play. And most pass plays are loaded with option routes. So depending on what Schaub, AJ, OD, and KW all read at the line of scrimmage, the routes of any or all of them could be outs, out-&-ups, skinny posts, whatever.

Sorry if I implied that Schaub would be stuck with only two "cast in concrete" plays without any variation. I was just adding to TPN's post that said Schaub is given one play and that play has several variants. I thought he (Schaub) was given TWO plays - one run, one pass - with multiple variants. That gives our QB several options at the LoS depending on what he sees. Is that any clearer?

It appears Eli and his offense are given a lot of latitude and freedom to adapt as each snap occurs. And that's, IMO, why they have so much success this year. Those WRs were eating up the Cowboys last night.

Hakeem Nicks is about the best impersonator of Andre Johnson I've seen in many seasons. He's naturally athletic, built like a marble statue and uses it to his advantage (rather than just a chiseled body with no brains to pair with it), he's smart, he's quick-twitch, a heads-up guy who adjusts on the fly. I am extremely impressed with the player. Big time.

And I don't think he's a fluke, either. He's going to do well, for many years, if he continues to play like he has this year.

I think Eli's success was as much due to the fact that the Giants were able to get their running game going; Bradshaw got 126 yds on 24 carries PLUS another 75 yds on 12 carries by that big bruiser Jacobs (and a 30-yd TD). Eli played his part, dinking & dunking, until the Dallas DBs came up close. But when your running game is producing over 5-1/2 yds a pop, that's got to help your passing attack.

thunderkyss
10-26-2010, 05:46 PM
I think Eli's success was as much due to the fact that the Giants were able to get their running game going; Bradshaw got 126 yds on 24 carries PLUS another 75 yds on 12 carries by that big bruiser Jacobs (and a 30-yd TD). Eli played his part, dinking & dunking, until the Dallas DBs came up close. But when your running game is producing over 5-1/2 yds a pop, that's got to help your passing attack.

Speaking of which, anybody talking about how poor a job Jenkins & Newman did last night? Not ready for the NFL... that kind of thing?

infantrycak
10-26-2010, 07:44 PM
I find it amusing that you tailor your scenario to fit your side of the discussion but I guess we all do that. If a sweep wouldn't work, to use your scenario, it would most likely be because the defense is over-loaded to the side the sweep was intended to be run to. Schaub has two choices: (1) flip the play to run the sweep to the other side or (2) call a the pass play. And most pass plays are loaded with option routes. So depending on what Schaub, AJ, OD, and KW all read at the line of scrimmage, the routes of any or all of them could be outs, out-&-ups, skinny posts, whatever.

Sorry if I implied that Schaub would be stuck with only two "cast in concrete" plays without any variation. I was just adding to TPN's post that said Schaub is given one play and that play has several variants. I thought he (Schaub) was given TWO plays - one run, one pass - with multiple variants. That gives our QB several options at the LoS depending on what he sees. Is that any clearer?

Exactly. Schaub receives his two plays and generally calls the primary in the huddle. Then they see the defensive formation and he can change to the other play or on either play make adjustments to what the D is showing. Manning receives three plays and then goes thru the same process although yes the Texans do not like to audible near that much.

GP
10-27-2010, 02:21 PM
Exactly. Schaub receives his two plays and generally calls the primary in the huddle. Then they see the defensive formation and he can change to the other play or on either play make adjustments to what the D is showing. Manning receives three plays and then goes thru the same process although yes the Texans do not like to audible near that much.

Kubiak said Schaub has been pretty much calling the shots in under-2 minute situations where we're moving down the field to race the clock.

Why can't he be given that sort of arrangement a bit more, rather than JUST on a 2-minute situation?

I'm not calling for anarchy whereby Schaub is his own o-coord all the time.

I just think he's capable of having more freedom to improvise than he's been given. Of course, it's not JUST the QB who has to learn all those plays and have all those audible signals in his head...the RBs would have to know all the myriad of audibles & signals, as would the TEs, the WRs, and the linemen.

I also think Peyton Manning has way more than 2 or 3 possible audibles on any given snap. Unless his 6 switches at the line, pre-snap, are really 3 "real" audibles and about 3 fake ones that don't even exist...just to confuse the defense.

This is one of the more fascinating topics of football that I like to read. There's an element of subterfuge and secrecy and strategy when dealing with audibles. I could read a whole book devoted to the topic. But then again, what teams or QBs are ever going to share their secrets of their trade?

BigBull17
10-27-2010, 02:27 PM
Kubiak said Schaub has been pretty much calling the shots in under-2 minute situations where we're moving down the field to race the clock.

Why can't he be given that sort of arrangement a bit more, rather than JUST on a 2-minute situation?

I'm not calling for anarchy whereby Schaub is his own o-coord all the time.

I just think he's capable of having more freedom to improvise than he's been given. Of course, it's not JUST the QB who has to learn all those plays and have all those audible signals in his head...the RBs would have to know all the myriad of audibles & signals, as would the TEs, the WRs, and the linemen.

I also think Peyton Manning has way more than 2 or 3 possible audibles on any given snap. Unless his 6 switches at the line, pre-snap, are really 3 "real" audibles and about 3 fake ones that don't even exist...just to confuse the defense.

This is one of the more fascinating topics of football that I like to read. There's an element of subterfuge and secrecy and strategy when dealing with audibles. I could read a whole book devoted to the topic. But then again, what teams or QBs are ever going to share their secrets of their trade?

I agree. I would like to see a two minute offense randomly. Keep the opponent on their toes. The only problem, is our D has been so bad they want to take their time often.

infantrycak
10-27-2010, 05:08 PM
I also think Peyton Manning has way more than 2 or 3 possible audibles on any given snap. Unless his 6 switches at the line, pre-snap, are really 3 "real" audibles and about 3 fake ones that don't even exist...just to confuse the defense.

You really have to look at what is meant by audible and when it is called. Peyton only gets one more play in the huddle and I think everyone would acknowledge he has more freedom than any other QB in the league. They approach the line. They then have a decision on changing the base play call. Then within that they have a decision tree on side of plays, routes, etc. for that call. Just because Schaub doesn't look like a clown out there doesn't mean things aren't changing and adapting. No QB in the league truly calls their own plays except in a very well drilled in two minute drill offense). In fact that has been a myth for decades. Roger Staubach got the starting job after changing a play right after he got his butt chewed by Landry. That was 40 years ago and he was a hall of famer. There was a famous Staubach story that Landry told him if he played until he was 40 he could call his own plays.

The Pencil Neck
10-27-2010, 05:48 PM
You really have to look at what is meant by audible and when it is called. Peyton only gets one more play in the huddle and I think everyone would acknowledge he has more freedom than any other QB in the league. They approach the line. They then have a decision on changing the base play call. Then within that they have a decision tree on side of plays, routes, etc. for that call. Just because Schaub doesn't look like a clown out there doesn't mean things aren't changing and adapting. No QB in the league truly calls their own plays except in a very well drilled in two minute drill offense). In fact that has been a myth for decades. Roger Staubach got the starting job after changing a play right after he got his butt chewed by Landry. That was 40 years ago and he was a hall of famer. There was a famous Staubach story that Landry told him if he played until he was 40 he could call his own plays.

Right. The way our offense is designed, it's not an "audible" kind of offense... it's a series of decisions and reads.

Kubiak always answers the "why don't you let Schaub audible" question with "he doesn't have to because the play is set up to handle whatever the defense is doing." This isn't high school football where the coach calls a sweep and to change out of it, they have to call another play. This is an offense where they call a sweep and then when they line up a series of decisions are made and the play could morph into an inside run or a pass play.

At least, that's my understanding.

Rey
10-27-2010, 06:48 PM
I don't think our audibles are like Peyton's audibles.


I think if Peyton comes up to the line and he see's the corner is lined up too far off his receiver he can change the route to a hitch or something like that...

I think Matt can probably change plays or switch the side that the play is going to, but I don't think he has the same amount of control at the LOS that Peyton has.

CloakNNNdagger
10-27-2010, 07:14 PM
I don't think our audibles are like Peyton's audibles.


I think if Peyton comes up to the line and he see's the corner is lined up too far off his receiver he can change the route to a hitch or something like that...

I think Matt can probably change plays or switch the side that the play is going to, but I don't think he has the same amount of control at the LOS that Peyton has.


http://communications.webalue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Henry-Ford_Model-T.gif

"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black"--------Henry Ford

thunderkyss
10-27-2010, 07:59 PM
I agree. I would like to see a two minute offense randomly. Keep the opponent on their toes. The only problem, is our D has been so bad they want to take their time often.

In what game would you be referring? If the offense ever spent more than a Three & out, our defense usually answers the bell.

thunderkyss
10-27-2010, 08:01 PM
I don't think our audibles are like Peyton's audibles.


I think if Peyton comes up to the line and he see's the corner is lined up too far off his receiver he can change the route to a hitch or something like that...

I think Matt can probably change plays or switch the side that the play is going to, but I don't think he has the same amount of control at the LOS that Peyton has.

I remember specifically Kubiak saying Matt always has the option to check to a slant on any run play if the slant is there (receiver playing off).

& I think Infantry already established that no one has as much control as Peyton.