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View Full Version : Does NFL 'skirts only' rules give the Texans an edge


thegr8fan
10-24-2010, 08:24 PM
Does the NFL's new 'safety oriented' rules actually give an edge to the Texans offense oriented team an edge to this season? I think it does. Consider that the Raiders set a new team record with a score of 59 today against the Bronco's. Now I know the Raiders are on everyone's high powered offensive teams list, right. :rolleyes: Come on 59 points. :yikes: And there were other multiple above 30 pts scores today.

So the question I am asking the board is this. With the Texans poor defense and high powered offense, given that the NFL wants to 'outlaw' vicious hits or hits to the helmet, etc. doesn't this give the Texans an edge. Especially given that the 'knock' on the Texans team is that they are not as physical of a team.

The NFL defense's are going to have to 'pull up' on their hits and tackling so doesn't this mean more receptions/ yds/ TD's for high powered offenses such as the Texans? Which should translate into more wins, right?

brakos82
10-24-2010, 08:27 PM
That just might be crazy enough to work...... :thinking:

Rey
10-24-2010, 08:42 PM
By that logic, wouldn't it make our own defense even worse?

Lucky
10-24-2010, 08:44 PM
By that logic, wouldn't it make our own defense even worse?
How many Texans have been fined by the league recently? Just because the defense is terrible, it doesn't mean they can't also be stupid.

thegr8fan
10-24-2010, 08:48 PM
By that logic, wouldn't it make our own defense even worse? is it possible for our defense to actually be worse?

brakos82
10-24-2010, 08:49 PM
is it possible for our defense to actually be worse?

Yeah, we could be Denver. :texanbill:

GuerillaBlack
10-24-2010, 09:03 PM
How many Texans have been fined by the league recently? Just because the defense is terrible, it doesn't mean they can't also be stupid.

Three this week.

Big Lou
10-24-2010, 11:02 PM
The NFL is "soft".............

ArlingtonTexan
10-24-2010, 11:36 PM
The offense probably is fine under any rules. Allowing more physical play actually would play into the strengths of our corners. Neither of the starters is a quick witch cover type guy

HuttoKarl
10-25-2010, 09:34 AM
I didn't really see a huge difference in how teams played yesterday...I think I saw two players pull back on laying into a guy but in both situations, the guy was already on his way down to the turf and both hits didn't have to be made.

Maybe we'll see people actually wrap up a guy or try to knock the ball off at the last second for a change.

gtexan02
10-25-2010, 10:47 AM
I posted this in a different thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76877) but what I saw over the weekend was defensive backs playing more aggressively and going for the ball rather than the big hit.

It resulted in a higher than average turnover percentage and a lot more defensive touchdowns.

El Tejano
10-25-2010, 12:23 PM
I posted this in a different thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76877) but what I saw over the weekend was defensive backs playing more aggressively and going for the ball rather than the big hit.

It resulted in a higher than average turnover percentage and a lot more defensive touchdowns.

Yep. Go back and look at the Brandon Merriwether hit in the 1st quarter. When that happened, Phil Simms pointed out how he was still able to make an aggressive hit and that because of the rules it was an even more technically sound hit, stating that Merriweather had to wrap up more because of it.

Double Barrel
10-25-2010, 12:25 PM
I did not know that the NFL has "new 'safety oriented' rules" in place.

I know that there's a story about stronger enforcement of existing rules, but please elaborate on the new rules.

Mr teX
10-25-2010, 01:46 PM
Yep. Go back and look at the Brandon Merriwether hit in the 1st quarter. When that happened, Phil Simms pointed out how he was still able to make an aggressive hit and that because of the rules it was an even more technically sound hit, stating that Merriweather had to wrap up more because of it.

merriweather didn't wrap anything up, he hit the player the same as he usually does, he just aimed lower..which is why all this talk about using proper hitting technique to decrease head shots/concussion hits & the like is a bunch of bull.

Guys are still going to launch & the same bad tackling technique will still be rampant, its just no one was physically incapacitated this week...thus the league doesn't care. I wonder if they'll care when guys start going down for acl/mcl tears at an alarming rate.

TheCD
10-25-2010, 02:07 PM
I wonder if they'll care when guys start going down for acl/mcl tears at an alarming rate.

I'm sure they'll feel the same as a lot of fans do...it sucks but crazy hits are not part of the NFL. That's why it is called "tackle football" not "crazy hit football". The ligament tears will be unfortunate, but they're a better consequence than concussions.

People act like concussions are no big deal because the healing rate is a lot faster than other injuries, but have you seen what guys like Ali look like later in life after all of those concussions? Do you want to look at Andre like that 30 years from now and say "Yeah, it sucks, but there's nothing that can avoid injuries like that when you play football." The NFL is trying to look out for the players, and right now the players are still in a position where they are young and don't think anything is going to happen to them.

PapaL
10-25-2010, 02:20 PM
I guess this would effect us only if we could tackle. Letting a WR run free doesn't really count. Unless our goal is to tire them out. Now that may actually work.

TheCD
10-25-2010, 02:23 PM
I guess this would effect us only if we could tackle. Letting a WR run free doesn't really count. Unless our goal is to tire them out. Now that may actually work.

Man...I had Kenny Britt on my fantasy team until this week. I was desparate for receiver help and finally dropped him because I can't stand seeing a Titans player on my team. He then made me look like a fool and dropped 40 fantasy points in that game.


Long story short...after seeing the game I'm scared for when we play the Titans trying to stop CJ.

PapaL
10-25-2010, 02:35 PM
Man...I had Kenny Britt on my fantasy team until this week. I was desparate for receiver help and finally dropped him because I can't stand seeing a Titans player on my team. He then made me look like a fool and dropped 40 fantasy points in that game.


Long story short...after seeing the game I'm scared for when we play the Titans trying to stop CJ.

Stuff like that happens to me weekly. In one league I have M.Turner, A.Foster, R.Mendenhall and Forte. The two that I bench ALWAYS put up 30-40 points each.

Mr teX
10-25-2010, 02:59 PM
I'm sure they'll feel the same as a lot of fans do...it sucks but crazy hits are not part of the NFL. That's why it is called "tackle football" not "crazy hit football". The ligament tears will be unfortunate, but they're a better consequence than concussions.

People act like concussions are no big deal because the healing rate is a lot faster than other injuries, but have you seen what guys like Ali look like later in life after all of those concussions? Do you want to look at Andre like that 30 years from now and say "Yeah, it sucks, but there's nothing that can avoid injuries like that when you play football." The NFL is trying to look out for the players, and right now the players are still in a position where they are young and don't think anything is going to happen to them.


apples and oranges..every boxer repeatedly gets concussions, that is definitely an unavoidable hazard of a job where you punch guys in the face for a living.Not every player in the nfl, before or after the penalty being reinforced, is getting concussion causing hits every time they make a hit/block....

But i doubt they care unless its peyton manning or some other superstar player which again, is why the NFL is being hypocritical. How in the hell can you institute a rule where you can't hit qb's low after pretty boy brady gets his season ended, but then leave every other player on the field open for such hits out in the open field? I know you'll say that they don't have to hit around that area, but if i'm a little 195 lb cb with 260 lb brandon jacobs coming at me, i'm not gonna hit him any higher than his knees b/c it provides the best way for me to get him down with out getting a concussion from him running me over. This scenario (a db's giving up 20+ lbs to a RB/WR) is probably more frequent than what happened 2 weeks ago.

thegr8fan
10-26-2010, 12:52 AM
I did not know that the NFL has "new 'safety oriented' rules" in place. you might want to watch more sports analysis shows on ESPN, since you seem to be in the dark on this topic. And this is NOT what this thread is about. It is about discussing how the Texans can take advantage of the new 'mantra' on vicious/illegal hits, etc.

on MNF they quoted a stat of the average combined score of all games was 50+ and also was the second highest EVER. That is the part of the new 'safety' mentality of the NFL that I am referring to. The Texans have a high powered offense and a lousy defense. But it is appearing more and more like the NFL is turning into 'who scores last' type games and running up the score beyond previous games/season's. Now, granted, this is based on one entire weekend of scoring but it is quite obvious that the new penalty/fine/suspension threats are seriously detracting from the defensive side of the game, at least for this weekend.

This is the aspect of the 'new and improved player safety' rules that is going to play to the Texans strength, which is obviously the offense.

brakos82
10-26-2010, 01:07 AM
on MNF they quoted a stat of the average combined score of all games was 50+ and also was the second highest EVER. That is the part of the new 'safety' mentality of the NFL that I am referring to.

Also has more to do with forcing turnovers (strips, INTs), and scoring off of those, either on that play, or with a very short field.

It was posted earlier (whoever did let me know so I can rep you), the yardage of the 13 Sunday games this week was 288 yards per team vs 286 average.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76877

thegr8fan
10-26-2010, 01:13 AM
the yardage of the 13 Sunday games this week was 288 yards per team vs 286 average. I am not sure how the average yardage being a (+2) relates to your idea of 'short yardage'. :thinking:

There are alot of factors that go into 'scoring' in a game. I agree with that. But when the league mandates 'hightened awareness' of defensive tackles, and the scores across the board seem to raise, it appears to be directly related. And also something that the Texans may use to their advantage.

hookinreds
10-26-2010, 10:57 AM
I think what you are really going to see is that the headhunters are really going to get exposed for their lack oin ability to actually tackle a ball carrier. Just last night I was watching the game when Jacobs went in for the TD run, Dallas' DB/S went for the KO on the sideline and totally wiffed. Jacobs had a great cutback, but if that DB/S had been trying to tackle Jacobs he would have at least gotten an arm/shoulder on him. Instead he chose to leave his feet, lead with his shoulder for a high/shoulder pop and turned his head completely away from Jocobs so he never even saw the cutback. I get so pissed off at the number of missed tackles by NFL players becuase they simply go for a big hit up high with thier shoulder instead of wrapping up the ball carrier with a standard midsection form tackle. I point out to my son every time someone makes a legitimate tackle becuase they are coming few and fewer. The form tackle seems to have gone the way of the 15ft jumper in basketball. Nobody makes the highlight reel for a 15ft bank shot, they want the dunk...same goes for the form tackle and the KO. Good for the NFL for attempting to force guys actually make a tackle. Makes me laugh when I listen to these fools talking about having to forget everything they've ever been taught. Sounds like you've had some crappy coaching...obviously they are great atheletes, but had some twit coach that did nothing but praise them for the big hit...most likely on some poor kid in HS that was outweighed by 60lbs and continued to believe this through college that this was the way to play football.

TheCD
10-26-2010, 11:16 AM
apples and oranges..every boxer repeatedly gets concussions, that is definitely an unavoidable hazard of a job where you punch guys in the face for a living.Not every player in the nfl, before or after the penalty being reinforced, is getting concussion causing hits every time they make a hit/block....

Concussions aren't entirely unavoidable. They have shown that the larger the padding on the gloves, the more likely a concussion is to occur, as there is no physical bleeding to cause a stoppage in the fight. This is why MMA tends to be bloodier as they have very small gloves, but fewer athletes actually suffer concussions compared to boxers.

But i doubt they care unless its peyton manning or some other superstar player which again, is why the NFL is being hypocritical. How in the hell can you institute a rule where you can't hit qb's low after pretty boy brady gets his season ended, but then leave every other player on the field open for such hits out in the open field? I know you'll say that they don't have to hit around that area, but if i'm a little 195 lb cb with 260 lb brandon jacobs coming at me, i'm not gonna hit him any higher than his knees b/c it provides the best way for me to get him down with out getting a concussion from him running me over. This scenario (a db's giving up 20+ lbs to a RB/WR) is probably more frequent than what happened 2 weeks ago.

I understand there is hypocrisy, and for the most part I don't agree with it either. If a guy's leg is planted and you go after that knee, I feel an ejection may be in order because you're doing nothing but trying to take him out of the game. Go after his feet if you're going to go low.

However, I have always felt that once a QB takes off and passes the line of scrimmage he should not be allowed to slide. The QB position is quite different from all others, so fine...if they are standing still in the pocket and a player is going after a still target, sure give them certain protections. But if a QB advances past the line of scrimmage he's no longer a QB, he's a runner/ballcarrier. It's just something QB's should be forced to live with if they make the decision to take off.


To be clear, I have nothing wrong with big hits. But going after a guy's head, or using your helmet is not safe. I saw plenty of big hits this weekend that were legal.

hookinreds
10-26-2010, 11:32 AM
Concussions aren't entirely unavoidable. They have shown that the larger the padding on the gloves, the more likely a concussion is to occur, as there is no physical bleeding to cause a stoppage in the fight. This is why MMA tends to be bloodier as they have very small gloves, but fewer athletes actually suffer concussions compared to boxers.



I understand there is hypocrisy, and for the most part I don't agree with it either. If a guy's leg is planted and you go after that knee, I feel an ejection may be in order because you're doing nothing but trying to take him out of the game. Go after his feet if you're going to go low.

However, I have always felt that once a QB takes off and passes the line of scrimmage he should not be allowed to slide. The QB position is quite different from all others, so fine...if they are standing still in the pocket and a player is going after a still target, sure give them certain protections. But if a QB advances past the line of scrimmage he's no longer a QB, he's a runner/ballcarrier. It's just something QB's should be forced to live with if they make the decision to take off.


To be clear, I have nothing wrong with big hits. But going after a guy's head, or using your helmet is not safe. I saw plenty of big hits this weekend that were legal.

Not following you here...if a QB takes off running and passes the line of scrimmage, he can get planted just as much as any other player. Same holds true for a WR/RB in that they can slide just like a QB. Once a player goes down to the ground on their own you can do little more than touch them with your hand without getting PF flag thrown your way regardless if it's WR/RB/QB. You see WRs do it all the time when they go over the middle and "feel" a DB/S coming at them from both sides to avoid the hit.

TheCD
10-26-2010, 11:47 AM
Not following you here...if a QB takes off running and passes the line of scrimmage, he can get planted just as much as any other player. Same holds true for a WR/RB in that they can slide just like a QB. Once a player goes down to the ground on their own you can do little more than touch them with your hand without getting PF flag thrown your way regardless if it's WR/RB/QB. You see WRs do it all the time when they go over the middle and "feel" a DB/S coming at them from both sides to avoid the hit.

The other players go down but don't slide. I just don't feel that a slide has any place in football. Perhaps it doesn't make sense, but it's just one of those things that irks me. When a QB slides you don't have to touch him because he has given himself up on the play. It's essentially a moved that is allowed specifically for QBs to not get hit.

thegr8fan
10-26-2010, 11:52 AM
I saw a picture perfect form tackle last night by the Giants. Thing of beauty. Stood out for its perfection and should be on everyone's 'training' video of how to tackle.

And I am not referring to players who intentionally 'spear' or tackle with intent to harm other players. What I am saying is that offensive dominant teams, like the Texans, are going to benefit more signifigantly from the new Mantra in the NFL. Due mostly to the Defenses lack of ability to come aggresively at a tackle, legal or illegal.

the scoring for last weekend's games is a prime indicator of the defenses reaction to this new Mantra. When your full speed, NFL quality speed, not high school or college, a split second 'indecision' by the defensive player is going to produce a non-tackle. It is just that 'indecision' that plays to the Texans strengths, which is offensive scoring. Andre coming at you and you don't want to hit him to high, or hard, or out of bounds, or whatever it is in that situation that makes you have to stop and 'think' verses going with your football instincts is going to be a WIN/WIN for Andre and the Texans almost every time it happens.

thegr8fan
10-26-2010, 11:53 AM
It's essentially a moved that is allowed specifically for QBs to not get hit actually it is essentially a move that is allowed specifically so the OWNERS WALLETS don't get hit. :dancer:

TheCD
10-26-2010, 12:02 PM
actually it is essentially a move that is allowed specifically so the OWNERS WALLETS don't get hit. :dancer:


Touché. You win this round...:handshake:

Double Barrel
10-26-2010, 12:04 PM
you might want to watch more sports analysis shows on ESPN, since you seem to be in the dark on this topic. And this is NOT what this thread is about. It is about discussing how the Texans can take advantage of the new 'mantra' on vicious/illegal hits, etc.

on MNF they quoted a stat of the average combined score of all games was 50+ and also was the second highest EVER. That is the part of the new 'safety' mentality of the NFL that I am referring to. The Texans have a high powered offense and a lousy defense. But it is appearing more and more like the NFL is turning into 'who scores last' type games and running up the score beyond previous games/season's. Now, granted, this is based on one entire weekend of scoring but it is quite obvious that the new penalty/fine/suspension threats are seriously detracting from the defensive side of the game, at least for this weekend.

This is the aspect of the 'new and improved player safety' rules that is going to play to the Texans strength, which is obviously the offense.

lol! You might want to read more posts in the forum, man. I'm not in the dark, as I've watched, listened, and read more than enough about this subject. We've been discussing the issue in several threads that you are welcomed to join.

The FACT is that these are not "new" rules. They are EXISTING rules that are now being enforced.

Headhunting and cheap shots have no place in the NFL. If you need this kind of fix, perhaps the NFL is not for your viewing pleasure. I watch the NFL to see football, not "big hits" or crappy tackling because some overpaid athlete wants his ESPN highlight for the night.

I'm sorry you feel that stronger enforcement of existing rules are "seriously detracting from the defensive side of the game". I disagree, although I hope the NFL keeps enforcement reasonable and doesn't go overboard. I see the potential for the NFL to do this, so I understand threads of this nature. But, all that said, I think it's an over-reaction by fans until we have several more weeks to review and compare for analysis.

The whole "skirts only" thing is played out. Guys are still getting hit hard, Romo was driven to the ground by a clean hit and is most likely out for the season, so your bloodlust can still be satiated without cheap headhunting shots.

As far as the Texans defense, they don't hit very hard and intimidate nobody, so I don't see how it will help or hurt them in any way. They are Charmin soft. This team wins and loses by it's offense, and I don't expect much from our defense these days.

TheCD
10-26-2010, 12:08 PM
As far as the Texans defense, they don't hit very hard and intimidate nobody, so I don't see how it will help or hurt them in any way. They are Charmin soft. This team wins and loses by it's offense, and I don't expect much from our defense these days.

I like to think of our defense as the most charitable organization in the NFL. If you're in need of a TD the Texans will deliver...

gtexan02
10-26-2010, 12:14 PM
you might want to watch more sports analysis shows on ESPN, since you seem to be in the dark on this topic. And this is NOT what this thread is about. It is about discussing how the Texans can take advantage of the new 'mantra' on vicious/illegal hits, etc.

on MNF they quoted a stat of the average combined score of all games was 50+ and also was the second highest EVER. That is the part of the new 'safety' mentality of the NFL that I am referring to. The Texans have a high powered offense and a lousy defense. But it is appearing more and more like the NFL is turning into 'who scores last' type games and running up the score beyond previous games/season's. Now, granted, this is based on one entire weekend of scoring but it is quite obvious that the new penalty/fine/suspension threats are seriously detracting from the defensive side of the game, at least for this weekend.

This is the aspect of the 'new and improved player safety' rules that is going to play to the Texans strength, which is obviously the offense.

I addressed this in a different thread, so I won't go into the details, but the point total of 52.8 was the 2nd highest in the past 20 years, not ever.

And many of those points came directly off of defenses scoring touchdowns. There were 10 defensive scores last weekend, which is way, way, way higher than average.

Its how the Browns, who managed only ~140 yards of real offense (discounting their special teams play for 68 yards) managed to put up 30 points on the Saints. It has nothing to do with the Saints defense playing badly due to new rules

thegr8fan
10-26-2010, 12:43 PM
As far as the Texans defense, they don't hit very hard and intimidate nobody, so I don't see how it will help or hurt them in any way. They are Charmin soft. This team wins and loses by it's offense, and I don't expect much from our defense these days couldn't agree more. Which is why hard hitting physical teams, i.e. Ravens are going to have to borrow some skirts from the cheerleading squad in this new era of NFL football for creampuffs and kleenex snifflers, and 'finese'/offense oriented teams like the Texans are going to benefit the most.

which is the 'edge' that I am referring to.

and just so you know, DB, I am still working on these smilie things. So I'll try and include the sarcasm one in the future more often for those who don't know my sense of humor.

The new era of powderpuff football rules enacted by the league, has nothing to do with the game of football, and everything to do with owners wallets and greed. You can't fill new stadium seating with Jon Kitna QB football. Anyone knows that.

gtexan02
10-26-2010, 12:45 PM
The new era of powderpuff football rules enacted by the league, has nothing to do with the game of football, and everything to do with owners wallets and greed. You can't fill new stadium seating with Jon Kitna QB football. Anyone knows that.

I haven't followed this discussion that well apparently, because I don't follow this line of thinking.

How does enforcing the helmet to helmet rule on defenseless receivers do anything about Jon Kitna? That hit on Romo was perfectly legal.

Double Barrel
10-26-2010, 12:52 PM
couldn't agree more. Which is why hard hitting physical teams, i.e. Ravens are going to have to borrow some skirts from the cheerleading squad in this new era of NFL football for creampuffs and kleenex snifflers, and 'finese'/offense oriented teams like the Texans are going to benefit the most.

which is the 'edge' that I am referring to.

and just so you know, DB, I am still working on these smilie things. So I'll try and include the sarcasm one in the future more often for those who don't know my sense of humor.

The new era of powderpuff football rules enacted by the league, has nothing to do with the game of football, and everything to do with owners wallets and greed. You can't fill new stadium seating with Jon Kitna QB football. Anyone knows that.

I've always enjoyed your perspectives, man, and I'm glad to see you posting more of your thoughts. I figured some of your stuff was tongue-in-cheek, so I always try to take these things in stride.

I do agree that a lot of changes in the NFL are directly related to profitability and further enriching owners' bank accounts. I guess my take is that it remains to be seen how this situation plays out and how it relates to the unrelenting greed that drives this entertainment industry.

I'm trying to be a bit more optimistic about these updated enforcements, simply because I drive off the cliff of cynicism rather easy these days. The NFL front office very well could go overboard with it and we see tough defenses become a thing of the past, which would be a damn shame to me. So, I'm just hoping that this really is about eliminating headhunting for player safety and not all about the almighty dollar, but you've made a strong case for the latter that is hard to refute at this point.

Of course, let's assume that these new changes in enforcement do benefit the Texans and our team goes deep into the playoffs. Would we really mind then? It's a paradox...