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View Full Version : What no one is saying about Ryans.......


Big Lou
10-24-2010, 03:04 PM
I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I have seen little mention of the odds of Ryan returning to form is at all. Everything I've seen about achilles leads me to believe that we won't get Ryan at his 2006 or 2010 level. We still got a lot of season left, but just wondering how many are in denial.

This begs the question, what to do about it. Are we now looking at needing to draft his replacement, find someone in free agency, or move someone up.

I know Cloak and Dagger gave a little info on rehab and such, but stats I read recently led me to believe that this more time than not is a career ender. I hate saying that but it is what it is.

So what does everyone think, how do we handle this just in case next season:

1. Sharpton
2. Trade/Free Agency (In the off season)
3. Draft (Sure would have been nice to not have any new holes, would have like to have seen round 1-3 for defense)

thunderkyss
10-24-2010, 03:22 PM
I'm thinking we'll wait till the season is over, and see how Adibi, Diles, Sharpton, & Bentley do.

Then we'll see how the rest of the team did.

Then we'll see what the draft class looks like.

Then we'll.... I don't know, figure it out??

HJam72
10-24-2010, 03:24 PM
I'm thinking we'll wait till the season is over, and see how Adibi, Diles, Sharpton, & Bentley do.

Then we'll see how the rest of the team did.

Then we'll see what the draft class looks like.

Then we'll.... I don't know, figure it out??


Then we'll draft another undersized NT, a FS who can't defend the pass, and five TEs.

GNTLEWOLF
10-24-2010, 03:40 PM
Then we'll draft another undersized NT, a FS who can't defend the pass, and five TEs.

ain't that the truth?!!!!!

b0ng
10-24-2010, 04:19 PM
Then we'll draft another undersized NT, a FS who can't defend the pass, and five TEs.

Yeah, we certainly haven't drafted any LB's in the last few yea-

Wait nevermind you don't know what you're talking about.

Thorn
10-24-2010, 05:30 PM
Ryans, after healing, and then playing at 80 to 90% of his ablility is still better than most LBs. I'll take him.

DerekLee1
10-24-2010, 05:52 PM
Then we'll draft another undersized NT, a FS who can't defend the pass, and five TEs.

You know, this is easy to joke about, but last year when they drafted 2 TE's, Owen Daniels went down. This year, they draft a MLB when they already have a couple, and DeMeco goes down. It's like these guys know something's gonna happen to guys in those positions. You scratch your head at the time thinking, "Why?!?", but it has a way of working itself out.

We don't get to pick 4 times in the first round, people. They work with the picks they have.

Norg
10-24-2010, 06:07 PM
I was kinda wanting to cut him last OS nothing personal just biznas

b0ng
10-24-2010, 09:56 PM
I was kinda wanting to cut him last OS nothing personal just biznas

You wanted Demeco Ryans to be cut last off season or one of the other LB's?

HJam72
10-25-2010, 07:55 AM
I wanted to cut all of them and get a bunch of FSs. :jk:

IDEXAN
10-25-2010, 08:01 AM
What did C&D say about the history of NFL players to come back from this type of injury vs a garden variety blown knee (MCL, ACL, etc) ?
One thing, I'm happy that DeMeco got paid this year with a new deal before this injury and only wish OD would have taken the deal presented to him last year before his knee injury.

HuttoKarl
10-25-2010, 08:31 AM
Yeah, we certainly haven't drafted any LB's in the last few yea-

Wait nevermind you don't know what you're talking about.

Funniest part of it is the number of complaints about drafting Sharpton this past draft. I think "ZOMG!!! WE DONT NEED A LB!!WTF!?!?!?!" was the number 2 comment on draft day behind "ZOMG!!! WE DONT NEED A TE!!WTF!?!?!?!" and just before "ZOMG!!! WE NEED TO TRADE UP FOR _______________!!WTF!?!?!?!".

ubecool454
10-25-2010, 08:36 AM
No one is saying anything because no one can tell the future. Stop speculating and let this thing play out. I think this is a silly thread!

El Tejano
10-25-2010, 08:49 AM
Contrary to what some people may think, I have been saying this for quite some time.

silvrhand
10-25-2010, 08:55 AM
Same thing can be said about Connor Barwin, we could have two high end draft picks at 80-90% for next year :(

Texan_Bill
10-25-2010, 09:04 AM
Then we'll draft another undersized NT, a FS who can't defend the pass, and five TEs.

:heh:

scourge
10-25-2010, 09:19 AM
Then we'll draft another undersized NT, a FS who can't defend the pass, and five TEs.

Just like the Lions and their obsession with WR's for a few years, we will be moving away from that right about now. Will only draft 2.

HOU-TEX
10-25-2010, 09:22 AM
I was kinda wanting to cut him last OS nothing personal just biznas

Are you mentally disturbed?

Texan_Bill
10-25-2010, 09:26 AM
I was kinda wanting to cut him last OS nothing personal just biznas

Are you mentally disturbed?

:facepalm: :wadepalm: :kubepalm:

silvrhand
10-25-2010, 10:59 AM
:facepalm: :wadepalm: :kubepalm:

http://demotivatorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/1108845-godzilla_facepalm_godzilla_facepalm_face_palm_epic _fail_demotivational_poster_1245384435_super.jpg

JWarren14
10-25-2010, 02:09 PM
Good thing there won't be any football next season, gives DeMeco and Barwin to further rehab their injuries.

Blake
10-25-2010, 02:24 PM
3/30/2010: Signed a six-year, $48 million contract. The deal contains $21.75 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus. Another $600,000 is available through incentives based on Pro Bowl appearances in the first three years. 2010: $7 million, 2011: $5.8 million, 2012: $5.9 million, 2013: $6.6 million, 2014: $6.8 million, 2015: $6.8 million, 2016: Free Agent

He aint going anywhere for YEARS. He will be back and just fine for 2011 if there is football.

Carr Bombed
10-25-2010, 02:28 PM
There will be football in 2011, neither side wants a stoppage and they'll work something out....

However I'm kinda worried about the NBA CBA talks...telling players they need to make a 35% cut to their salaries/overhead isn't going to fly over too well.

Big Lou
10-25-2010, 02:49 PM
http://demotivatorsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/1108845-godzilla_facepalm_godzilla_facepalm_face_palm_epic _fail_demotivational_poster_1245384435_super.jpg

DAMN, now that shiznit is FUUUUNNNNYYY!!!!!

Big Lou
10-25-2010, 02:50 PM
3/30/2010: Signed a six-year, $48 million contract. The deal contains $21.75 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus. Another $600,000 is available through incentives based on Pro Bowl appearances in the first three years. 2010: $7 million, 2011: $5.8 million, 2012: $5.9 million, 2013: $6.6 million, 2014: $6.8 million, 2015: $6.8 million, 2016: Free Agent

He aint going anywhere for YEARS. He will be back and just fine for 2011 if there is football.

I hope you are right....

ChampionTexan
10-25-2010, 02:58 PM
There will be football in 2011, neither side wants a stoppage and they'll work something out....

However I'm kinda worried about the NBA CBA talks...telling players they need to make a 35% cut to their salaries/overhead isn't going to fly over to well.

I agree on both the NFL and the NBA take (although it wouldn't shock me to see the 2011 NFL season start a week or three late).

CloakNNNdagger
10-25-2010, 06:10 PM
I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I have seen little mention of the odds of Ryan returning to form is at all. Everything I've seen about achilles leads me to believe that we won't get Ryan at his 2006 or 2010 level. We still got a lot of season left, but just wondering how many are in denial.

This begs the question, what to do about it. Are we now looking at needing to draft his replacement, find someone in free agency, or move someone up.

I know Cloak and Dagger gave a little info on rehab and such, but stats I read recently led me to believe that this more time than not is a career ender. I hate saying that but it is what it is.

So what does everyone think, how do we handle this just in case next season:

1. Sharpton
2. Trade/Free Agency (In the off season)
3. Draft (Sure would have been nice to not have any new holes, would have like to have seen round 1-3 for defense)

What did C&D say about the history of NFL players to come back from this type of injury vs a garden variety blown knee (MCL, ACL, etc) ?
One thing, I'm happy that DeMeco got paid this year with a new deal before this injury and only wish OD would have taken the deal presented to him last year before his knee injury.


The “Debbie Downer” stat-filled scenario that have been floating around the internet are generated by and in reference to a 2009 article in Foot and Ankle Specialist Online Journal (created in 2008)

The purpose of this study is to document the epidemiology of Achilles tendon ruptures in the National Football League (NFL) and to quantify the impact of these injuries on player performance. A retrospective review of several online NFL player registries identified 31 Achilles tendon ruptures in NFL players between 1997 and 2002. Nineteen percent of injuries occurred during preseason play, while another 18% occurred during the first month of the official season. There was a postinjury reduction of 88%, 83%, and 78% in power ratings for wide receivers, running backs, and tight ends, respectively, over a 3-year period. There was a 95%, 87%, and 64% postinjury reduction in power ratings for linebackers, cornerbacks, and defensive tackles over a 3-year period. On average, players experienced a greater than 50% reduction in their power ratings following such an injury. Thirty-two percent (n = 10) of NFL players who sustained an Achilles tendon rupture did not return to play in the NFL.

The more optimistic numbers that I had previously presented in the other thread was based on more recent expectations of football players at collegiate and professional levels............return to play ~90% and return to preinjury performance ~80%. Of course, with these numbers, there are individual factors determining success or failure.

Having looked up and read the entire paper (which was submitted to a small online journal, not a nationally or internationally recognized orthopedic journal), there are too many limitations and flaws to the study to make it valid. Interesting, especially since it is the only “study” that targets the NFL population for this injury?.......Yes......Valid?....No. Definitely SCAREY!

But let it be understood that the study included a total of only 31 players. Whatever information was available was from ONLINE information (such as KFFL.COM which they reference), the only information given the authors for their analysis and conclusions. There were no personal medical records made available for prior injury history to other joints, such as hips, knee and contralateral ankle or any other injuries which would have precluded return or decision to return or ability to optimally rehab. Records were not available to assess in any way important parameters, such as prodomal (pre-existing chronic problems with calf or tendonitis) conditions that could have been treated before extensive destruction finally followed by rupture of the tendon vs. clean one incident rupture. A chronic rupture scenario is full of post treatment problems. There were no records to assess surgical vs. non surgical treatment. Non surgical treatment of these ruptures are almost a revolving door invitation to increased incidence of chronic problems and re-rupture. The surgical techniques and rehabilitation armentarium available is vastly superior today than they were in 2002, let alone in 1997, from which time frame the cases were drawn. Finally, their method of assigning power rating and assignment of controls are at very least questionable.

This paper indeed is the only such review specific to the NFL, yet it is not surprising that it would not have been accepted by a more well-known reputable journal.

Demeco will not have an easy climb back. But it is far from gloom and doom.

Texans_Chick
10-25-2010, 07:30 PM
I would also add that one of the treatments that the Texans use is platelet-rich plasma therapy, something that is now more commonly used than in the past. Andre Johnson used it to rehab from his high ankle sprain. It's my understanding that PRP can be helpful to achilles injuries.

More info on PRP can be found here (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/10/01/andre-johnson-received-platelet-rich-plasma-therapy-on-high-ankl/).

Big Lou
10-25-2010, 10:47 PM
The “Debbie Downer” stat-filled scenario that have been floating around the internet are generated by and in reference to a 2009 article in Foot and Ankle Specialist Online Journal (created in 2008)



The more optimistic numbers that I had previously presented in the other thread was based on more recent expectations of football players at collegiate and professional levels............return to play ~90% and return to preinjury performance ~80%. Of course, with these numbers, there are individual factors determining success or failure.

Having looked up and read the entire paper (which was submitted to a small online journal, not a nationally or internationally recognized orthopedic journal), there are too many limitations and flaws to the study to make it valid. Interesting, especially since it is the only “study” that targets the NFL population for this injury?.......Yes......Valid?....No. Definitely SCAREY!

But let it be understood that the study included a total of only 31 players. Whatever information was available was from ONLINE information (such as KFFL.COM which they reference), the only information given the authors for their analysis and conclusions. There were no personal medical records made available for prior injury history to other joints, such as hips, knee and contralateral ankle or any other injuries which would have precluded return or decision to return or ability to optimally rehab. Records were not available to assess in any way important parameters, such as prodomal (pre-existing chronic problems with calf or tendonitis) conditions that could have been treated before extensive destruction finally followed by rupture of the tendon vs. clean one incident rupture. A chronic rupture scenario is full of post treatment problems. There were no records to assess surgical vs. non surgical treatment. Non surgical treatment of these ruptures are almost a revolving door invitation to increased incidence of chronic problems and re-rupture. The surgical techniques and rehabilitation armentarium available is vastly superior today than they were in 2002, let alone in 1997, from which time frame the cases were drawn. Finally, their method of assigning power rating and assignment of controls are at very least questionable.

This paper indeed is the only such review specific to the NFL, yet it is not surprising that it would not have been accepted by a more well-known reputable journal.

Demeco will not have an easy climb back. But it is far from gloom and doom.

Thanks CloakNNNdagger!!! Although its only one case I just remember Takeo Spikes and how much he fell off after his achilles.

There was a Bengal that got hurt last year during our game, can't remember his name a DL, think I'll look him up to see if he's back.....

Big Lou
10-25-2010, 10:52 PM
Thanks CloakNNNdagger!!! Although its only one case I just remember Takeo Spikes and how much he fell off after his achilles.

There was a Bengal that got hurt last year during our game, can't remember his name a DL, think I'll look him up to see if he's back.....

It was Antwan Odom, and he's currently suspended but his stats aren't exactly stellar this year, but who knows!!!

CloakNNNdagger
10-25-2010, 11:45 PM
Thanks CloakNNNdagger!!! Although its only one case I just remember Takeo Spikes and how much he fell off after his achilles.

There was a Bengal that got hurt last year during our game, can't remember his name a DL, think I'll look him up to see if he's back.....

Big Lou,

Just one more point of potential invalidity of the above study. They rate the 3 years preinjury performance, then 3 years postinjury performance, then try to show a significant down turn in the latter. Think about it. The average NFL career empirically is only about 3 1/2 to 4 years long. Makes conclusions based on this particular injury very questionable, since many players inexplicably show significant down turn in performance by their 4th year.

Norg
10-25-2010, 11:50 PM
Ok i take what i said back besides our team our culture is pretty loyal to our High draft pick players

and i think Demco will prob retire has a texan hes the heart hes the leader and QB of our D he will be back and stronger then ever

HardKnockTexan
10-26-2010, 11:13 AM
I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I have seen little mention of the odds of Ryan returning to form is at all. Everything I've seen about achilles leads me to believe that we won't get Ryan at his 2006 or 2010 level. We still got a lot of season left, but just wondering how many are in denial.

This begs the question, what to do about it. Are we now looking at needing to draft his replacement, find someone in free agency, or move someone up.

I know Cloak and Dagger gave a little info on rehab and such, but stats I read recently led me to believe that this more time than not is a career ender. I hate saying that but it is what it is.

So what does everyone think, how do we handle this just in case next season:

1. Sharpton
2. Trade/Free Agency (In the off season)
3. Draft (Sure would have been nice to not have any new holes, would have like to have seen round 1-3 for defense)

For what it's worth, John McClain said on SR 610 that Achilles tears are fairly common and players can fully recover given time.

Blake
10-26-2010, 11:49 AM
DeMeco should be able to excercise in 6 months. Give him another 4 months to get back into shape and he should be ready for the season opener.

At least with his new contract he can purchase the I-walk-free.

http://www.goodbyecrutches.com/Portals/0/Dave_Sanders%20-%20IWALK%20FREE%20RACE.jpg

http://www.invacaresupplygroup.com/media/Large/CDL82000.jpg

feebleminded
10-26-2010, 12:03 PM
For what it's worth, John McClain said on SR 610 that Achilles tears are fairly common and players can fully recover given time.

I guess he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

DBCooper
10-27-2010, 10:42 PM
Ok i take what i said back besides our team our culture is pretty loyal to our High draft pick players

and i think Demco will prob retire has a texan hes the heart hes the leader and QB of our D he will be back and stronger then ever

JohnsonFan please!

thunderkyss
10-29-2010, 04:08 AM
in this weeks dhow of NFL Playbook, Brian Billick does a great job breaking down the Patriots defense. Some of their issues are the same as ours. If you get a chance, check it out. It is a really great show for the football junkie.

hradhak
10-29-2010, 01:14 PM
I would also add that one of the treatments that the Texans use is platelet-rich plasma therapy, something that is now more commonly used than in the past. Andre Johnson used it to rehab from his high ankle sprain. It's my understanding that PRP can be helpful to achilles injuries.
.

My guess is that his ankle got better because it healed with time not because of PRP. PRP hasn't been proven to be effective in any medical literature yet (not saying that it doesn't work, but it has never been proven to work). The science behind it is also a stretch in my opinion. In fact the guy who started the therapy was also later busted for giving patients growth hormone while giving them the PRP.

Demeco is in for a long road to recovery. The tendon repair is much better than it used to be 10 years ago, so I'm very hopeful that Demeco will come back in good playing shape, but there's still a ~20% complication rate, and we still don't know how much of his tendon was damaged.
http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/37/11/2259.long

CloakNNNdagger
10-29-2010, 07:13 PM
My guess is that his ankle got better because it healed with time not because of PRP. PRP hasn't been proven to be effective in any medical literature yet (not saying that it doesn't work, but it has never been proven to work). The science behind it is also a stretch in my opinion. In fact the guy who started the therapy was also later busted for giving patients growth hormone while giving them the PRP.
Demeco is in for a long road to recovery. The tendon repair is much better than it used to be 10 years ago, so I'm very hopeful that Demeco will come back in good playing shape, but there's still a ~20% complication rate, and we still don't know how much of his tendon was damaged.
http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/37/11/2259.long

My feeling on PRP is similar, as posted in the context of Andre Johnson's ankle injury.

POSTS:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1538108&postcount=29

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1538194&postcount=33

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1538230&postcount=35

THREAD:
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76541&highlight=platelet

Marcus
10-31-2010, 05:24 PM
3/30/2010: Signed a six-year, $48 million contract. The deal contains $21.75 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus. Another $600,000 is available through incentives based on Pro Bowl appearances in the first three years. 2010: $7 million, 2011: $5.8 million, 2012: $5.9 million, 2013: $6.6 million, 2014: $6.8 million, 2015: $6.8 million, 2016: Free Agent

He ain't going anywhere for YEARS. He will be back and just fine for 2011 if there is football.

No, that fat contract he signed, is the reason why he's going to get cut. If he doesn't come back 100%, (and that's my definition of "fine")then he's not worth that type of money.

This is today's NFL. No room for loyalty, no room for what you've done in the past, no room for mindless sentimentalism. You can either play to the level that merits that contract .... or you can't.

thunderkyss
10-31-2010, 06:12 PM
No, that fat contract he signed, is the reason why he's going to get cut. If he doesn't come back 100%, (and that's my definition of "fine")then he's not worth that type of money.

This is today's NFL. No room for loyalty, no room for what you've done in the past, no room for mindless sentimentalism. You can either play to the level that merits that contract .... or you can't.

Unless Sharpton can make it onto the field, I doubt we'll be cutting Demeco Ryans. That contract says his cap number (if the cap remains similar to what we've had in the past) will be roughly $9 million a year for the remainder of his contract.

If he's cut next year, that will leave $18 million of dead money, & 3 million less for each consecutive year. Unless we have a cheap free agent (Diles) playing above his contract, I can't imagine cutting Demeco.

Rey
10-31-2010, 06:19 PM
Hopefully Demeco heals well and comes back strong.

thunderkyss
10-31-2010, 09:30 PM
Hopefully Demeco heals well and comes back strong.

He's the real deal. He'll be back.

rush2112mn
11-01-2010, 07:19 AM
They are not going to do anything else right now....

Because Ryans will be back next year.